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We need to go back to having a Prime Minister born in Canada – politicalbetting.com

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  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,667
    Switzerland's Prime Minister called. I don't think they have a president. A Prime Minister.

    "A woman"

    Does he know where he is?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,955
    After this I hope he is not doing a Q.& A
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,667
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Look, we needed this speech. Listen to Carney yesterday, listen to this, and take the sign down from our window.

    It's *OVER*

    Park the Starmer/HYUFD normalcy bias nonsense. You can't just go on assuming that the old world is the current world. It is not.

    Cancel all US military procurement contracts. Invite US armed forces to go home. Cut off our supposed cooperation on intel and other matters. Better that we do it now under our own terms, or we face down what he chooses to do to us.

    Sorry, I know I have banged this drum on and on. But fucking listen to him. And tell me this is fine.

    Trump has just ruled out invasion of Greenland, he wants to buy it, that is a decision for Denmark and Greenland to see if he offers a high enough price they would expect.

    Beyond that, Starmer has actually been sensible in getting lower tariffs on UK exports to the US than most other nations have had, even if Sir Keir mucked up on the Chagos Islands
    1. Earlier in the speech Trump stated that he could take Greenland in minutes as he took Venezuela
    2. If you think his word has merit then you're demented, especially when he contradicts himself repeatedly in the same spoeech
    3. We're being threatened with more tariffs
    4. Chagos? Are you Andrew Rosindell?

    You do know that giving succour to America will be reduced onto the same level as going on Press TV and RT?
    Not with Reform voters it won't, nor even with many Tory voters
    Patriots tend not to like traitors.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,667

    After this I hope he is not doing a Q.& A

    You're no fun any more
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,602
    The PM of Switzerland rubbed him up the wrong way apparently.

    Why would anyone actually have an open conversation with this man?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,667
    "Without us its not Switzerland any more"
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,852

    Scott_xP said:

    Trump is now confusing Greenland and Iceland: "They're not there for us on Iceland, that I can tell you. Our stock market took the first dip yesterday because of Iceland. So Iceland has already cost us a lot of money."

    Yet I was assured upthread that he did not come across as demented in this speech.
    Sean was watching a different speech

    @atrupar.com‬

    The choice is impeachment and removal or calamity for the United States. I don't see how anybody watching Trump's speech in Davos can draw any other conclusion. He's a senile madman.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3mcwuummsik2d
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,605
    Scott_xP said:

    @JeremyCliffe

    Some Europeans will be reassured by this, and wind down the (cautious) assertiveness of recent days.

    But it shows that displays of European resolve move Trump in ways that the misguided sycophancy of previous 12 months never did. It's a reason to press forward, not pull back.

    https://x.com/JeremyCliffe/status/2013982181434028368?s=20

    My interpretation is leaders from the free world should be shitting themselves. If they are not, they certainly should.

    The man is clearly insane.

    He has absolutely no grasp of economics or geopolitics.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,667
    He's saying he can destroy any country economically if they don't do what we wants. A protection racket. And he's just said "protection" from his military.

    Its like that Indycar commentary. "Wow wow wow! Five Wide!!!" Absolute incredulity.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,369
    Leon said:

    Trump is saying Europe, go fuck yourself, sort out migration and energy, or you will kill your economies and countries. And anyway I’m taking Greenland, and that’s that, but we will pay and not invade, and you will accept

    What are the Europeans gonna do?

    Not buy his debt.

    Then he's fucked. He can forget buying Greenland. Americans can't buy dinner.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,268
    glw said:

    Would Biden haters and Trump fanbois please fucking explain what is going on at the moment in Davos!

    They can't the cost to their ego would be too great to admit they have defended a raving nutter who threatens the entire world's security.
    To be fair, there are several people who were previously supportive of Trump and have, in the past few days, recanted. How many here are still defending him?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,667

    The only thing in Leon's favour at this point is that he's not the MOST wrongheaded person on the planet.

    Are you saying HYUFD is worse?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,165
    Ok he is now veering off into actual demented babble
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,084
    Is there merit in offering Trump a few sovereign base areas in Greenland such as we have in Cyprus? He can say he has sovereign US territory there, he can stick whatever defences on there he seems to think they need and, as he has said today there aren’t rare earths there, he doesn’t need the whole country.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,605

    After this I hope he is not doing a Q.& A

    I am hoping the Doctors from Dignitas are on their way before the Q and A.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 16,729

    HYUFD said:

    Look, we needed this speech. Listen to Carney yesterday, listen to this, and take the sign down from our window.

    It's *OVER*

    Park the Starmer/HYUFD normalcy bias nonsense. You can't just go on assuming that the old world is the current world. It is not.

    Cancel all US military procurement contracts. Invite US armed forces to go home. Cut off our supposed cooperation on intel and other matters. Better that we do it now under our own terms, or we face down what he chooses to do to us.

    Sorry, I know I have banged this drum on and on. But fucking listen to him. And tell me this is fine.

    Trump has just ruled out invasion of Greenland, he wants to buy it, that is a decision for Denmark and Greenland to see if he offers a high enough price they would expect.

    Beyond that, Starmer has actually been sensible in getting lower tariffs on UK exports to the US than most other nations have had, even if Sir Keir mucked up on the Chagos Islands
    1. Earlier in the speech Trump stated that he could take Greenland in minutes as he took Venezuela
    2. If you think his word has merit then you're demented, especially when he contradicts himself repeatedly in the same spoeech
    3. We're being threatened with more tariffs
    4. Chagos? Are you Andrew Rosindell?

    You do know that giving succour to America will be reduced onto the same level as going on Press TV and RT?
    Thing is we now know he didn’t take Venezuela. He took Maduro and put his deputy in his place. More like US Cold War shenanigans in its Latam backyard.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,165

    Leon said:

    Trump is saying Europe, go fuck yourself, sort out migration and energy, or you will kill your economies and countries. And anyway I’m taking Greenland, and that’s that, but we will pay and not invade, and you will accept

    What are the Europeans gonna do?

    Not buy his debt.

    Then he's fucked. He can forget buying Greenland. Americans can't buy dinner.
    As has been pointed out by many economists, this simply won’t work
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 16,729
    edited 2:43PM
    boulay said:

    Is there merit in offering Trump a few sovereign base areas in Greenland such as we have in Cyprus? He can say he has sovereign US territory there, he can stick whatever defences on there he seems to think they need and, as he has said today there aren’t rare earths there, he doesn’t need the whole country.

    He should be offered nothing. It’ll only encourage him to come back for more.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,841
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Trump hinting that America has new super weapons. I’ve heard this elsewhere

    WTF

    You know who else was always hinting about Wunderwaffe?
    I would dismiss it as a Trumpism on ketamine but there are wild online rumours that the US special forces did something to totally disable and terrify the Cuban guards around Maduro, allowing them to be slaughtered at will. Thus the insane disparity in body count. Dozens of Cubans dead, and maybe zero yanks?

    Could be total bollocks. But not necessarily
    There were stories the Americans have a Havana Syndrome machine
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,792
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Trump is saying Europe, go fuck yourself, sort out migration and energy, or you will kill your economies and countries. And anyway I’m taking Greenland, and that’s that, but we will pay and not invade, and you will accept

    What are the Europeans gonna do?

    The Europeans are sorting themselves out as regards energy: natural gas prices are now lower in Europe than before the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It turns out that putting up lots of that hated solar and wind works.
    Yeah. His daftest passage was wind and solar. Trump claimed there are no wind farms in China

    ERRRRRR

    China has half the world’s wind capacity

    However on the UK’s absurd energy and migration policies, and ditto the EU, he is mostly right
    The pivot to wind and solar and away from oil and gas, plus energy efficiency, is a key aspect of building autonomy relative to particularly the USA and Russia.

    The same is the case for the whole of Europe.
  • I'm gonna need a highlights reel, I'm struggling to sift the never seen before levels of outrageous from the usual drivel.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,955
    Has anyone walked out yet

    How can the attendees sit through this dangerous and mad as a box of frogs speech
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 1,035
    Mr Trump wants the lowest interest rates in the world. Think we should all boycott US Treasury bills and see what happens.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,602
    I’m glad to hear that grass is being planted in Washington DC.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,595
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Trump is saying Europe, go fuck yourself, sort out migration and energy, or you will kill your economies and countries. And anyway I’m taking Greenland, and that’s that, but we will pay and not invade, and you will accept

    What are the Europeans gonna do?

    Not buy his debt.

    Then he's fucked. He can forget buying Greenland. Americans can't buy dinner.
    As has been pointed out by many economists, this simply won’t work
    Well, certainly not for the UK.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,595
    BREAKING: Sweden’s pension fund Alecta has divested most of its U.S. Treasury holdings, citing increased risk and unpredictability in U.S. politics. The sell-off totaled roughly 70–80 billion SEK ($7.7–8.8B) - Reuters
    https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2013954270010200224
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,955

    He's saying he can destroy any country economically if they don't do what we wants. A protection racket. And he's just said "protection" from his military.

    Its like that Indycar commentary. "Wow wow wow! Five Wide!!!" Absolute incredulity.

    He said he will not invade so the only option is for him to apply destructive tariffs

    I have no idea how this is resolved
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,667
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Trump is saying Europe, go fuck yourself, sort out migration and energy, or you will kill your economies and countries. And anyway I’m taking Greenland, and that’s that, but we will pay and not invade, and you will accept

    What are the Europeans gonna do?

    Not buy his debt.

    Then he's fucked. He can forget buying Greenland. Americans can't buy dinner.
    As has been pointed out by many economists, this simply won’t work
    Start selling oil in EUR or RMB. Then he's fucked.

    Thing is, there is no status quo alternative. We hold US Treasuries - the value of those is tanking regardless of what we do. So whether we get institutions to dump them or not their value is done.

    Want to really fuck America? End the petrodollar. Which we can do overnight. Why are we trading in USD? Because that's the currency of choice. Choose another one.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,667

    Has anyone walked out yet

    How can the attendees sit through this dangerous and mad as a box of frogs speech

    This is history. "I was there when America ended"
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,852
    @pbump.com‬

    Attn news commentators: Trump saying he could use force to obtain Greenland but won’t is not Trump saying he won’t use force to obtain Greenland. It is Trump using force as a threat to obtain Greenland. That is why he mentions it.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,667

    He's saying he can destroy any country economically if they don't do what we wants. A protection racket. And he's just said "protection" from his military.

    Its like that Indycar commentary. "Wow wow wow! Five Wide!!!" Absolute incredulity.

    He said he will not invade so the only option is for him to apply destructive tariffs

    I have no idea how this is resolved
    Who says he won't invade?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,605
    We are veering into White Supremacy now.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,955
    Will he get applause when he ends [ if he ever does)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,064

    Look, we needed this speech. Listen to Carney yesterday, listen to this, and take the sign down from our window.

    It's *OVER*

    Carney's invocation of Havel is interesting because the equivalent "sign in the window" in the modern West is not simply a belief in the international order but an entire ideology about equality and progressive values.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,386
    Nigelb said:

    BREAKING: Sweden’s pension fund Alecta has divested most of its U.S. Treasury holdings, citing increased risk and unpredictability in U.S. politics. The sell-off totaled roughly 70–80 billion SEK ($7.7–8.8B) - Reuters
    https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2013954270010200224

    I wonder if that is what drove that spike in yields yesterday.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,602

    Will he get applause when he ends [ if he ever does)

    Pretty embarrassing that there’s not been a walkout, to be honest
  • Look, we needed this speech. Listen to Carney yesterday, listen to this, and take the sign down from our window.

    It's *OVER*

    Carney's invocation of Havel is interesting because the equivalent "sign in the window" in the modern West is not simply a belief in the international order but an entire ideology about equality and progressive values.
    Cry more
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,955

    He's saying he can destroy any country economically if they don't do what we wants. A protection racket. And he's just said "protection" from his military.

    Its like that Indycar commentary. "Wow wow wow! Five Wide!!!" Absolute incredulity.

    He said he will not invade so the only option is for him to apply destructive tariffs

    I have no idea how this is resolved
    Who says he won't invade?
    He did but your point is spot on
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,852
    Trump speech in Davos going 30 minutes over time, at times lacking any structure, some members of the audience leaving main hall room.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,292
    If he's 25th'd, then there's going to be money to be made knowing when he's going to be 25th'd.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,667

    Look, we needed this speech. Listen to Carney yesterday, listen to this, and take the sign down from our window.

    It's *OVER*

    Carney's invocation of Havel is interesting because the equivalent "sign in the window" in the modern West is not simply a belief in the international order but an entire ideology about equality and progressive values.
    Yeah. The entire western order is shifting beneath our feet.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,064

    Look, we needed this speech. Listen to Carney yesterday, listen to this, and take the sign down from our window.

    It's *OVER*

    Carney's invocation of Havel is interesting because the equivalent "sign in the window" in the modern West is not simply a belief in the international order but an entire ideology about equality and progressive values.
    Cry more
    I'm not crying. He's right that we need to stop professing our belief in things that are not true.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,275

    Look, we needed this speech. Listen to Carney yesterday, listen to this, and take the sign down from our window.

    It's *OVER*

    Carney's invocation of Havel is interesting because the equivalent "sign in the window" in the modern West is not simply a belief in the international order but an entire ideology about equality and progressive values.
    Cry more
    I'm not crying. He's right that we need to stop professing our belief in things that are not true.
    Do you mean like you and Trump’s sanity?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,667
    Nigelb said:

    BREAKING: Sweden’s pension fund Alecta has divested most of its U.S. Treasury holdings, citing increased risk and unpredictability in U.S. politics. The sell-off totaled roughly 70–80 billion SEK ($7.7–8.8B) - Reuters
    https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2013954270010200224

    There we go. It can be done. Dump the fuckers. Quick - before the price gets really low.

    Its a valid question though. When there is a run on a collapsing company / country, who does buy their shit?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,667
    Yay!!!!! Q&A!!!!!!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,792

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Trump is saying Europe, go fuck yourself, sort out migration and energy, or you will kill your economies and countries. And anyway I’m taking Greenland, and that’s that, but we will pay and not invade, and you will accept

    What are the Europeans gonna do?

    Not buy his debt.

    Then he's fucked. He can forget buying Greenland. Americans can't buy dinner.
    As has been pointed out by many economists, this simply won’t work
    Start selling oil in EUR or RMB. Then he's fucked.

    Thing is, there is no status quo alternative. We hold US Treasuries - the value of those is tanking regardless of what we do. So whether we get institutions to dump them or not their value is done.

    Want to really fuck America? End the petrodollar. Which we can do overnight. Why are we trading in USD? Because that's the currency of choice. Choose another one.
    I think that type of measure is important, in that we need money transfer infra which is not wreckable by the USA.

    How to do that?

    (Presumably London has to be somewhere near the heart of it, or we suffer as a financial centre.)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,369
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Trump is saying Europe, go fuck yourself, sort out migration and energy, or you will kill your economies and countries. And anyway I’m taking Greenland, and that’s that, but we will pay and not invade, and you will accept

    What are the Europeans gonna do?

    Not buy his debt.

    Then he's fucked. He can forget buying Greenland. Americans can't buy dinner.
    As has been pointed out by many economists, this simply won’t work
    Just selling his debt they hold now won't. But refusing to buy the $7 trillion he needs to roll over - that's a different matter.

    China isn't buying it. Neither should anyone else who doesn't like being threatened. We used to buy it because it was the safest harbour on the planet. But a debt strike would terrify the US markets - because then that status goes.

    We could also stop paying for energy in dollars.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,605
    edited 2:54PM

    Look, we needed this speech. Listen to Carney yesterday, listen to this, and take the sign down from our window.

    It's *OVER*

    Carney's invocation of Havel is interesting because the equivalent "sign in the window" in the modern West is not simply a belief in the international order but an entire ideology about equality and progressive values.
    Oh behave William.

    Look, we needed this speech. Listen to Carney yesterday, listen to this, and take the sign down from our window.

    It's *OVER*

    Carney's invocation of Havel is interesting because the equivalent "sign in the window" in the modern West is not simply a belief in the international order but an entire ideology about equality and progressive values.
    Cry more
    I'm not crying. He's right that we need to stop professing our belief in things that are not true.
    You have just listened to an hour's worth of lies. Please explain.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,154
    New Yougov on Chagos Islands
    From everything you have seen and heard about the issue, do you support or oppose the government's proposals to give sovereignty of the Chagos Islands to Mauritius?

    66% of Reform voters oppose (53% strongly oppose), 52% of Conservative voters oppose.

    Labour voters support by a 27% margin, LD voters support by a 29% margin, Green voters support by a 33% margin.

    UK voters overall split, 27% support, 27% oppose
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/international/survey-results/daily/2026/01/20/5b99d/2
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,667
    He's better than George Washington AND Abraham Lincoln combined.

    Bet he has a Massive Cock as well. And can bench press 500 pounds.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,292
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Trump is saying Europe, go fuck yourself, sort out migration and energy, or you will kill your economies and countries. And anyway I’m taking Greenland, and that’s that, but we will pay and not invade, and you will accept

    What are the Europeans gonna do?

    Not buy his debt.

    Then he's fucked. He can forget buying Greenland. Americans can't buy dinner.
    As has been pointed out by many economists, this simply won’t work
    Start selling oil in EUR or RMB. Then he's fucked.

    Thing is, there is no status quo alternative. We hold US Treasuries - the value of those is tanking regardless of what we do. So whether we get institutions to dump them or not their value is done.

    Want to really fuck America? End the petrodollar. Which we can do overnight. Why are we trading in USD? Because that's the currency of choice. Choose another one.
    I think that type of measure is important, in that we need money transfer infra which is not wreckable by the USA.

    How to do that?

    (Presumably London has to be somewhere near the heart of it, or we suffer as a financial centre.)
    Ultimately a money transfer system that's 100% not able to have the US's will imposed on it would be a money transfer system that the UK and EU wouldn't be able to impose it's will on. I'm not sure our current leadership cadre want's that.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,614

    Look, we needed this speech. Listen to Carney yesterday, listen to this, and take the sign down from our window.

    It's *OVER*

    Carney's invocation of Havel is interesting because the equivalent "sign in the window" in the modern West is not simply a belief in the international order but an entire ideology about equality and progressive values.
    Cry more
    I'm not crying. He's right that we need to stop professing our belief in things that are not true.
    Looking forward to you no longer saying Brexit is great.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,778
    Scott_xP said:

    Without America, "right now, you'd all be speaking German" Trump tells an audience in Switzerland.

    To be fair, I wouldn't call what they speak there German either.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,955
    Some applause

    Now Q & A
  • How long is he going to gibber on this first question ? Does he even remember this is the Q&A bit now ?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,778

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Look, we needed this speech. Listen to Carney yesterday, listen to this, and take the sign down from our window.

    It's *OVER*

    Park the Starmer/HYUFD normalcy bias nonsense. You can't just go on assuming that the old world is the current world. It is not.

    Cancel all US military procurement contracts. Invite US armed forces to go home. Cut off our supposed cooperation on intel and other matters. Better that we do it now under our own terms, or we face down what he chooses to do to us.

    Sorry, I know I have banged this drum on and on. But fucking listen to him. And tell me this is fine.

    Trump has just ruled out invasion of Greenland, he wants to buy it, that is a decision for Denmark and Greenland to see if he offers a high enough price they would expect.

    Beyond that, Starmer has actually been sensible in getting lower tariffs on UK exports to the US than most other nations have had, even if Sir Keir mucked up on the Chagos Islands
    1. Earlier in the speech Trump stated that he could take Greenland in minutes as he took Venezuela
    2. If you think his word has merit then you're demented, especially when he contradicts himself repeatedly in the same spoeech
    3. We're being threatened with more tariffs
    4. Chagos? Are you Andrew Rosindell?

    You do know that giving succour to America will be reduced onto the same level as going on Press TV and RT?
    Not with Reform voters it won't, nor even with many Tory voters
    Patriots tend not to like traitors.
    Projection.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,275
    There is however truth in the fact that all law (international and domestic) is enforced by violence. If we want to keep the current status quo of international law then we have to be prepared to defend it, with violence.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,195

    The only thing in Leon's favour at this point is that he's not the MOST wrongheaded person on the planet.

    Leon: Challenge accepted.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,369

    Look, we needed this speech. Listen to Carney yesterday, listen to this, and take the sign down from our window.

    It's *OVER*

    Carney's invocation of Havel is interesting because the equivalent "sign in the window" in the modern West is not simply a belief in the international order but an entire ideology about equality and progressive values.
    Cry more
    I'm not crying. He's right that we need to stop professing our belief in things that are not true.
    He has no idea what is true. Trump and truth haven't been on speaking terms his entire life.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,667

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Look, we needed this speech. Listen to Carney yesterday, listen to this, and take the sign down from our window.

    It's *OVER*

    Park the Starmer/HYUFD normalcy bias nonsense. You can't just go on assuming that the old world is the current world. It is not.

    Cancel all US military procurement contracts. Invite US armed forces to go home. Cut off our supposed cooperation on intel and other matters. Better that we do it now under our own terms, or we face down what he chooses to do to us.

    Sorry, I know I have banged this drum on and on. But fucking listen to him. And tell me this is fine.

    Trump has just ruled out invasion of Greenland, he wants to buy it, that is a decision for Denmark and Greenland to see if he offers a high enough price they would expect.

    Beyond that, Starmer has actually been sensible in getting lower tariffs on UK exports to the US than most other nations have had, even if Sir Keir mucked up on the Chagos Islands
    1. Earlier in the speech Trump stated that he could take Greenland in minutes as he took Venezuela
    2. If you think his word has merit then you're demented, especially when he contradicts himself repeatedly in the same spoeech
    3. We're being threatened with more tariffs
    4. Chagos? Are you Andrew Rosindell?

    You do know that giving succour to America will be reduced onto the same level as going on Press TV and RT?
    Not with Reform voters it won't, nor even with many Tory voters
    Patriots tend not to like traitors.
    Projection.
    On your part? Sure.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,400
    NEW: Westminster voting intention

    🟣 RFM: 26% (-3)
    🔴 LAB: 21% (+1)
    🔵 CON: 20% (+2)
    🟠 LDM: 14% (+1)
    🟢 GRN: 10% (-2)

    16-19 Jan, 1,585 respondents (GB)
    Changes with 26-28 Nov


    https://x.com/focaldatahq/status/2013974760833585283?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,605

    Some applause

    Now Q & A

    Very muted applause.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,667
    Great questions so far:

    1) Your economy is heading into recession what are you doing about it
    2) Your economy is getting crushed by debt what will you do about it

    Direct threats made to his face and he's so stupid he doesn't even realise it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,595

    Look, we needed this speech. Listen to Carney yesterday, listen to this, and take the sign down from our window.

    It's *OVER*

    Carney's invocation of Havel is interesting because the equivalent "sign in the window" in the modern West is not simply a belief in the international order but an entire ideology about equality and progressive values.
    That says a lot about you, william, but it's simply nonsense.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,955
    isam said:

    NEW: Westminster voting intention

    🟣 RFM: 26% (-3)
    🔴 LAB: 21% (+1)
    🔵 CON: 20% (+2)
    🟠 LDM: 14% (+1)
    🟢 GRN: 10% (-2)

    16-19 Jan, 1,585 respondents (GB)
    Changes with 26-28 Nov


    https://x.com/focaldatahq/status/2013974760833585283?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Reform sliding?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,085
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Trump hinting that America has new super weapons. I’ve heard this elsewhere

    WTF

    You know who else was always hinting about Wunderwaffe?
    I would dismiss it as a Trumpism on ketamine but there are wild online rumours that the US special forces did something to totally disable and terrify the Cuban guards around Maduro, allowing them to be slaughtered at will. Thus the insane disparity in body count. Dozens of Cubans dead, and maybe zero yanks?

    Could be total bollocks. But not necessarily
    There was some good discussion about that operation on one of the Telegraph podcasts. These are the factors that they thought were important.

    1. The US used cyber warfare to shut down the grid in Caracas.
    2. The army units in Caracas aren't routinely issued with manpads, because it's known that they would end up being sold on the black market. So there's a delay before they could be distributed, and the initial US attack hit the bases where they're stored.
    3. Readiness in Venezuela was low because of the holidays and the long period of tension leading up to the operation.
    4. The Venezuelan operators of the air defence systems can't read the Russian telemetry on the systems.
    5. US helicopters are well designed and built to survive a limited amount of anti-aircraft fire - one was hit and damaged but made it back to the fleet.
    6. The geography was advantageous for the type of attack launched.
    7. The Americans were so fast that Maduro hadn't made it to his bunker before they nabbed him.

    Using cyber warfare integrated as part of an attack like this is I think relatively new and impressive.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,595

    Nigelb said:

    BREAKING: Sweden’s pension fund Alecta has divested most of its U.S. Treasury holdings, citing increased risk and unpredictability in U.S. politics. The sell-off totaled roughly 70–80 billion SEK ($7.7–8.8B) - Reuters
    https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2013954270010200224

    There we go. It can be done. Dump the fuckers. Quick - before the price gets really low.

    Its a valid question though. When there is a run on a collapsing company / country, who does buy their shit?
    We hold way too many dollars to dump like that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,154
    isam said:

    NEW: Westminster voting intention

    🟣 RFM: 26% (-3)
    🔴 LAB: 21% (+1)
    🔵 CON: 20% (+2)
    🟠 LDM: 14% (+1)
    🟢 GRN: 10% (-2)

    16-19 Jan, 1,585 respondents (GB)
    Changes with 26-28 Nov


    https://x.com/focaldatahq/status/2013974760833585283?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So confirmed, no bounce for Reform from Jenrick's defection and that new Focaldata is even worse for Farage than YG and MiC were with Reform actually losing 3% of their voteshare since gaining Jenrick and Rosindell.

    Also a far better poll for Kemi with the Tories the biggest gainers, up 2%. Good poll for Starmer as well with Labour up 1% and also just 5% behind Reform.

    Good for Davey with the LDs up 1% as well and bad for Polanski with the Greens down 2%
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,667
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    BREAKING: Sweden’s pension fund Alecta has divested most of its U.S. Treasury holdings, citing increased risk and unpredictability in U.S. politics. The sell-off totaled roughly 70–80 billion SEK ($7.7–8.8B) - Reuters
    https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2013954270010200224

    There we go. It can be done. Dump the fuckers. Quick - before the price gets really low.

    Its a valid question though. When there is a run on a collapsing company / country, who does buy their shit?
    We hold way too many dollars to dump like that.
    Not if you unwind. Trade oil in EUR/RMB. Start selling treasuries. Blanket policy not to buy any more treasuries. Start loading up on GBP/EUR etc
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,125
    Scott_xP said:

    Trump speech in Davos going 30 minutes over time, at times lacking any structure, some members of the audience leaving main hall room.

    At times lacking structure? The first few minutes were on WATO, are you saying that there was some structure to parts of it later on?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,142
    edited 3:02PM
    Icarus said:

    Mr Trump wants the lowest interest rates in the world. Think we should all boycott US Treasury bills and see what happens.

    If the US chooses not to pay to finance 25% of its debt externally, then it can simply adjust through a having a c 25% recession in GDP. That's OK though, the US capital markets represent just over 50% of global market capitalisation as against 25% of GDP, so the Maths is simple- sell the US by 50%. regardless. The tech bros are going to be taken apart by the EU courts anyway. The real economy in the US will just have to work round.... if they can.

    Of course, if the US does want to finance externally, it can not cut rates, it will have to raise them. Either way Trump has just made the kind of fuck up that will cripple the US economy. In the middle of all this, the USD is looking like it is on a one way trip south.

    Lutnick was booed at the dinner and Legarde walked out apparently, this is turning into an unbelievable disaster for the US.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,428
    isam said:

    NEW: Westminster voting intention

    🟣 RFM: 26% (-3)
    🔴 LAB: 21% (+1)
    🔵 CON: 20% (+2)
    🟠 LDM: 14% (+1)
    🟢 GRN: 10% (-2)

    16-19 Jan, 1,585 respondents (GB)
    Changes with 26-28 Nov


    https://x.com/focaldatahq/status/2013974760833585283?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Broken, sleazy Reform and Greens on the slide!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,595
    Cicero said:

    Icarus said:

    Mr Trump wants the lowest interest rates in the world. Think we should all boycott US Treasury bills and see what happens.

    If the US chooses not to pay to finance 25% of its debt externally, then it can simply adjust through a having a c 25% recession in GDP. That's OK though, the US capital markets represent just over 50% of global market capitalisation as against 25% of GDP, so the Maths is simple- sell the US by 50%. regardless. The tech bros are going to be taken apart by the EU courts anyway. The real economy in the US will just have to work round.... if they can.

    Of course, if the US does want to finance externally, it can not cut rates, it will have to raise them. Either way Trump has just made the kind of fuck up that will cripple the US economy. In the middle of all this, the USD is looking like it is on a one way trip south.

    Lutnick was booed at the dinner and Legarde walked out apparently, this is turning into an unbelievable disaster for the US.
    Lutnick makes Trump look almost charming.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,602
    “A very big piece of…… Iiiiiyce”
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,154
    Cicero said:

    Icarus said:

    Mr Trump wants the lowest interest rates in the world. Think we should all boycott US Treasury bills and see what happens.

    If the US chooses not to pay to finance 25% of its debt externally, then it can simply adjust through a having a c 25% recession in GDP. That's OK though, the US capital markets represent just over 50% of global market capitalisation as against 25% of GDP, so the Maths is simple- sell the US by 50%. regardless. The tech bros are going to be taken apart by the EU courts anyway. The real economy in the US will just have to work round.... if they can.

    Of course, if the US does want to finance externally, it can not cut rates, it will have to raise them. Either way Trump has just made the kind of fuck up that will cripple the US economy. In the middle of all this, the USD is looking like it is on a one way trip south.

    Lutnick was booed at the dinner and Legarde walked out apparently, this is turning into an unbelievable disaster for the US.
    Given the deficit, rising unemployment and inflation here in the UK we can hardly lecture.

    I doubt Trump cares too much what the globalist elite in Davos thinks of what he and his team are telling them anyway
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,085
    DavidL said:

    Look, we needed this speech. Listen to Carney yesterday, listen to this, and take the sign down from our window.

    It's *OVER*

    Park the Starmer/HYUFD normalcy bias nonsense. You can't just go on assuming that the old world is the current world. It is not.

    Cancel all US military procurement contracts. Invite US armed forces to go home. Cut off our supposed cooperation on intel and other matters. Better that we do it now under our own terms, or we face down what he chooses to do to us.

    Sorry, I know I have banged this drum on and on. But fucking listen to him. And tell me this is fine.

    So we have a choice of paths. We can either go the Carney route and work with other medium sized powers on things we have in common or we can continue our sycophancy in the hope of frankly embarrassing crumbs from Trump's table, those crumbs being removed capriciously if we are deemed to step out of line.

    I mean, this isn't even a choice is it?
    Starmer appears to be trying to avoid making a choice (unless he's working devishly hard in secret).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,350

    There is however truth in the fact that all law (international and domestic) is enforced by violence. If we want to keep the current status quo of international law then we have to be prepared to defend it, with violence.

    Yes. Otherwise, it is meaningless verbiage.

    Reading and listening to some people going piously on about international law, in a world whose bad leaders do not give a toss about it, drives me nuts.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,369
    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    NEW: Westminster voting intention

    🟣 RFM: 26% (-3)
    🔴 LAB: 21% (+1)
    🔵 CON: 20% (+2)
    🟠 LDM: 14% (+1)
    🟢 GRN: 10% (-2)

    16-19 Jan, 1,585 respondents (GB)
    Changes with 26-28 Nov


    https://x.com/focaldatahq/status/2013974760833585283?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So confirmed, no bounce for Reform from Jenrick's defection and that new Focaldata is even worse for Farage than YG and MiC were with Reform actually losing 3% of their voteshare since gaining Jenrick and Rosindell.

    Also a far better poll for Kemi with the Tories the biggest gainers, up 2%. Good poll for Starmer as well with Labour up 1% and also just 5% behind Reform.

    Good for Davey with the LDs up 1% as well and bad for Polanski with the Greens down 2%
    If Reform take a Trump hit too, they could go into the May elections in third...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,154
    edited 3:07PM
    Trump says Biden or Harris could have led to WW3 if he wasn't elected in 2024, says still can get a deal between Ukraine and Russia but difficult as neither Putin or Zelensky will agree terms for now. If they don't get it done both Putin and Zelensky are stupid
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 16,729
    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    NEW: Westminster voting intention

    🟣 RFM: 26% (-3)
    🔴 LAB: 21% (+1)
    🔵 CON: 20% (+2)
    🟠 LDM: 14% (+1)
    🟢 GRN: 10% (-2)

    16-19 Jan, 1,585 respondents (GB)
    Changes with 26-28 Nov


    https://x.com/focaldatahq/status/2013974760833585283?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So confirmed, no bounce for Reform from Jenrick's defection and that new Focaldata is even worse for Farage than YG and MiC were with Reform actually losing 3% of their voteshare since gaining Jenrick and Rosindell.

    Also a far better poll for Kemi with the Tories the biggest gainers, up 2%. Good poll for Starmer as well with Labour up 1% and also just 5% behind Reform.

    Good for Davey with the LDs up 1% as well and bad for Polanski with the Greens down 2%
    The lack of bunching in pollsters this parliament is fascinating. Especially with the “smaller parties” (more similarities in Labour and Con support).

    This one has greens on 10% others have them on 17%. The difference between marginal single issue party and genuine contender.

  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,125
    Checking my SIPP gives an indication of market sentiment, bonds and booze up, everything else down.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,605

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    NEW: Westminster voting intention

    🟣 RFM: 26% (-3)
    🔴 LAB: 21% (+1)
    🔵 CON: 20% (+2)
    🟠 LDM: 14% (+1)
    🟢 GRN: 10% (-2)

    16-19 Jan, 1,585 respondents (GB)
    Changes with 26-28 Nov


    https://x.com/focaldatahq/status/2013974760833585283?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    So confirmed, no bounce for Reform from Jenrick's defection and that new Focaldata is even worse for Farage than YG and MiC were with Reform actually losing 3% of their voteshare since gaining Jenrick and Rosindell.

    Also a far better poll for Kemi with the Tories the biggest gainers, up 2%. Good poll for Starmer as well with Labour up 1% and also just 5% behind Reform.

    Good for Davey with the LDs up 1% as well and bad for Polanski with the Greens down 2%
    If Reform take a Trump hit too, they could go into the May elections in third...
    Greens have got some way to go for first or second.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,268
    Sean_F said:

    There is however truth in the fact that all law (international and domestic) is enforced by violence. If we want to keep the current status quo of international law then we have to be prepared to defend it, with violence.

    Yes. Otherwise, it is meaningless verbiage.

    Reading and listening to some people going piously on about international law, in a world whose bad leaders do not give a toss about it, drives me nuts.
    If bad leaders do not give a toss about international law, does that not imply that good leaders should care about it?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,852
    Cicero said:

    this is turning into an unbelievable disaster for the US.

    They think it's a huge victory
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,195
    HYUFD said:

    Trump says Biden or Harris could have led to WW3 if he wasn't elected in 2024

    Which is prima facie insane.

    Biden stood up to Russia and supported Ukraine but never crossed any lines to lead to WW3 and never would have.

    Trump fellates Putin because he's his bitch, not to avoid WW3.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,195

    Sean_F said:

    There is however truth in the fact that all law (international and domestic) is enforced by violence. If we want to keep the current status quo of international law then we have to be prepared to defend it, with violence.

    Yes. Otherwise, it is meaningless verbiage.

    Reading and listening to some people going piously on about international law, in a world whose bad leaders do not give a toss about it, drives me nuts.
    If bad leaders do not give a toss about international law, does that not imply that good leaders should care about it?
    No, it means good leaders should invest in defence rather than international law to protect themselves.

    We need to be spending on armaments and sending them where they're most useful, like Ukraine.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,085
    boulay said:

    Is there merit in offering Trump a few sovereign base areas in Greenland such as we have in Cyprus? He can say he has sovereign US territory there, he can stick whatever defences on there he seems to think they need and, as he has said today there aren’t rare earths there, he doesn’t need the whole country.

    This is the sort of thing that was no doubt negotiated between previous US Presidents and Denmark, and it's the sort of thing that you could negotiate with a rational US President.

    Trump is not that.

    Apart from anything else, Trump does not stick to agreements he has previously made. It is pointless making a deal with Trump, except explicitly as a very temporary measure.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,595

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    BREAKING: Sweden’s pension fund Alecta has divested most of its U.S. Treasury holdings, citing increased risk and unpredictability in U.S. politics. The sell-off totaled roughly 70–80 billion SEK ($7.7–8.8B) - Reuters
    https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2013954270010200224

    There we go. It can be done. Dump the fuckers. Quick - before the price gets really low.

    Its a valid question though. When there is a run on a collapsing company / country, who does buy their shit?
    We hold way too many dollars to dump like that.
    Not if you unwind. Trade oil in EUR/RMB. Start selling treasuries. Blanket policy not to buy any more treasuries. Start loading up on GBP/EUR etc
    The UK is the second largest overseas holder of US treasuries after Japan, I think ?
    @rcs1000 will know a great deal more than me about the implications of that.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,268

    Sean_F said:

    There is however truth in the fact that all law (international and domestic) is enforced by violence. If we want to keep the current status quo of international law then we have to be prepared to defend it, with violence.

    Yes. Otherwise, it is meaningless verbiage.

    Reading and listening to some people going piously on about international law, in a world whose bad leaders do not give a toss about it, drives me nuts.
    If bad leaders do not give a toss about international law, does that not imply that good leaders should care about it?
    No, it means good leaders should invest in defence rather than international law to protect themselves.

    We need to be spending on armaments and sending them where they're most useful, like Ukraine.
    So, good leaders should do exactly the same as bad leaders...???

    I disagree: while we do need to invest in defence (and send armaments to Ukraine), I don't think that's a reason to give up on the idea of international law. We should champion the idea of international law and counter those who wish to ignore it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,852
    @lisaocarroll.bsky.social‬

    The European Parliament has confirmed it will not proceed with ratification of US tariff deal

    Bernd Lange, the chair of trade committee said, representatives of the political groups have just met and decided untii “the threats [on Greenland] are over there will be no possibility of compromise”.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,085
    Icarus said:

    Mr Trump wants the lowest interest rates in the world. Think we should all boycott US Treasury bills and see what happens.

    Remember all the ridicule Diane Abbot received for her arithmetic errors over police funding?

    It's so much worse than that.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 16,729
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    BREAKING: Sweden’s pension fund Alecta has divested most of its U.S. Treasury holdings, citing increased risk and unpredictability in U.S. politics. The sell-off totaled roughly 70–80 billion SEK ($7.7–8.8B) - Reuters
    https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2013954270010200224

    There we go. It can be done. Dump the fuckers. Quick - before the price gets really low.

    Its a valid question though. When there is a run on a collapsing company / country, who does buy their shit?
    We hold way too many dollars to dump like that.
    Not if you unwind. Trade oil in EUR/RMB. Start selling treasuries. Blanket policy not to buy any more treasuries. Start loading up on GBP/EUR etc
    The UK is the second largest overseas holder of US treasuries after Japan, I think ?
    @rcs1000 will know a great deal more than me about the implications of that.
    It’s not “The UK” that holds the treasuries though, it’s financial institutions - banks, fund managers, insurance companies, pension funds - in London. Including many US-headquartered ones.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,268
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    BREAKING: Sweden’s pension fund Alecta has divested most of its U.S. Treasury holdings, citing increased risk and unpredictability in U.S. politics. The sell-off totaled roughly 70–80 billion SEK ($7.7–8.8B) - Reuters
    https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2013954270010200224

    There we go. It can be done. Dump the fuckers. Quick - before the price gets really low.

    Its a valid question though. When there is a run on a collapsing company / country, who does buy their shit?
    We hold way too many dollars to dump like that.
    Not if you unwind. Trade oil in EUR/RMB. Start selling treasuries. Blanket policy not to buy any more treasuries. Start loading up on GBP/EUR etc
    The UK is the second largest overseas holder of US treasuries after Japan, I think ?
    @rcs1000 will know a great deal more than me about the implications of that.
    Do you mean the UK, as in the UK government, or do you mean multiple different people and companies in the UK?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,195
    edited 3:15PM

    Sean_F said:

    There is however truth in the fact that all law (international and domestic) is enforced by violence. If we want to keep the current status quo of international law then we have to be prepared to defend it, with violence.

    Yes. Otherwise, it is meaningless verbiage.

    Reading and listening to some people going piously on about international law, in a world whose bad leaders do not give a toss about it, drives me nuts.
    If bad leaders do not give a toss about international law, does that not imply that good leaders should care about it?
    No, it means good leaders should invest in defence rather than international law to protect themselves.

    We need to be spending on armaments and sending them where they're most useful, like Ukraine.
    So, good leaders should do exactly the same as bad leaders...???

    I disagree: while we do need to invest in defence (and send armaments to Ukraine), I don't think that's a reason to give up on the idea of international law. We should champion the idea of international law and counter those who wish to ignore it.
    Good leaders should be prepared to stand up to bad leaders.

    Banging on piously about international law does not do that.

    Sending armaments to Ukraine does.

    We should champion our values like the idea of democracy more than international law. Where our values like democracy and international law conflict, then democracy etc is more important.
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