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What we think about our leaders – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,741
edited 3:14PM in General
What we think about our leaders – politicalbetting.com

Every party conference season we ask people to describe the main party leaders in a word. Here are Starmer, Badenoch, Davey and Farage brought together. Not sure which one you’d rather!

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,785
    ...cricket is best. And 'real' first
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,292
    Not much.
  • edited 3:16PM

    TEST

    It works.

    Word clouds are very accurate except surprised to see Good outshining Racist for Farage.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,155
    LOL, answer to that is clearly NOTA.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,371
    FPT re: Reform & VAT

    Wouldn’t they still be liable to HMRC for VAT even if they didn’t charge it to their customers? Ie effectively they have discounted their prices by 16.5% which presumably wipes out a lot of the expected profit.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,981

    FPT re: Reform & VAT

    Wouldn’t they still be liable to HMRC for VAT even if they didn’t charge it to their customers? Ie effectively they have discounted their prices by 16.5% which presumably wipes out a lot of the expected profit.

    In the report was the Reform version of a MAGA baseball cap which IIRC cost a shade under £20. So that should have been £24. Even with a sale price of £16 after tax I suspect the margin is still more than generous enough so they don't make a loss. Generic caps cost a few pounds retail (with VAT!).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,580
    We can’t tell you TSE, you don’t approve of the word we would have to use.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,637
    With Pizza Hut having some issues here’s a little something from 94 for the motor racing fanatics here !!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,580
    Taz said:

    With Pizza Hut having some issues here’s a little something from 94 for the motor racing fanatics here !!

    Max Verstappen visited one and ordered something with pineapple?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,622
    edited 3:42PM
    My words for each leader would be:

    Chancer
    Disappointing
    Dunno
    Inept

    I leave it as an exercise for the reader to match word to leader.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,915

    TEST

    It works.

    Word clouds are very accurate except surprised to see Good outshining Racist for Farage.
    To be fair I would describe Farage 'Good" as a Leader. Look where he's taking them.

    That I really, REALLY, don't want to see him as a member of a Government, let alone leading it, doesn't alter the fact.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,622
    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,785

    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.

    Nah - you still can't beat Bake Off for cosy British mild jeopardy.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,025
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I can now see the point of Birmingham City council banning the Maccabi football supporters.

    Yes and no. Plenty of other teams in UEFA have troublesome hooligans, yet the game in Birmingham is the only time I can recall where away fans have been banned.

    No-one suggests that they are the good guys. But the issue is anti-semitism.
    No, it really isn't. At least, it probably isn't. The issue is the rioting at their last game in Amsterdam where Israeli fans attacked local Muslims and then it all kicked off bigly as local thugs, many antisemitic no doubt, are up for a ruck. Transferring this scenario to Birmingham is what the police are worried about.

    And as I posted earlier, I can remember in the dim and distant past, West Ham fans being banned from European games, so this is not new. Liverpool fans were also famously banned after Heysel. And all this is without betting on Israeli police banning Israeli fans unless you think Tel Aviv's Chief Constable is an Iranian mole.
    I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

    That said: given the issue was not specifically with the Villa, I cannot understand why there were not measures implemented to bus Macabee fans in from outside Birmingham. This happens all the time when there is the possibility of violent confrontations. That they did not reflects very poorly on the authorities.
    Its quite contentious and a lot of people suspect 'reasons' behind the decision. I think it would be in the public interest to share the concerns that the safety board has, where possible. Otherwise there is always going to be bad feeling about this.
    I know what concerns the safety board had: a combination of Muslims in Birmingham burning Israeli flags, while the Maccabee fans burned Palestinian ones was only going to end in one way.

    Where there was a a complete failure from the authorities was in not asking the question: how we can allow fans to get to the game without a risk of violent conflagurations? Especially given this kind of thing is hardly unknown.
    Surely you meet their planes somewhere like Stansted, put the fans in buses straight to the ground, and the same in reverse after the match?

    The questions are because it doesn’t appear the authorities even entertained the idea, they just didn’t fancy a clash between two ethnic groups in Birmingham.
    I would probably have organized some pickup points in North London too.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,231
    Off topic I have just had the request from the LDs to once again vet my social media. Its a very restrictive list which excludes YouTube and TikTok. I have emailed them back to flag that I can get tens of thousands of plays of a TikTok reel with me doing politics and they don't seem to want to vet it....
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,544
    AWS is still broken
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,580
    Cicero said:

    Three years to the day since Liz Truss resigned.

    it has been an "interesting", in the Chinese sense of the word, period of British political history.

    It is ironic to reflect my grandmother - who lived most of her adult life in Caerphilly after moving to Cardiff from China - would be very happy indeed to see Labour come third there.

    Fifty years she spent voting for ‘anyone but Labour.’ Now forty years after she died, she’s about to get it. Thanks in no small part to Truss.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,915
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I can now see the point of Birmingham City council banning the Maccabi football supporters.

    Yes and no. Plenty of other teams in UEFA have troublesome hooligans, yet the game in Birmingham is the only time I can recall where away fans have been banned.

    No-one suggests that they are the good guys. But the issue is anti-semitism.
    No, it really isn't. At least, it probably isn't. The issue is the rioting at their last game in Amsterdam where Israeli fans attacked local Muslims and then it all kicked off bigly as local thugs, many antisemitic no doubt, are up for a ruck. Transferring this scenario to Birmingham is what the police are worried about.

    And as I posted earlier, I can remember in the dim and distant past, West Ham fans being banned from European games, so this is not new. Liverpool fans were also famously banned after Heysel. And all this is without betting on Israeli police banning Israeli fans unless you think Tel Aviv's Chief Constable is an Iranian mole.
    I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

    That said: given the issue was not specifically with the Villa, I cannot understand why there were not measures implemented to bus Macabee fans in from outside Birmingham. This happens all the time when there is the possibility of violent confrontations. That they did not reflects very poorly on the authorities.
    Its quite contentious and a lot of people suspect 'reasons' behind the decision. I think it would be in the public interest to share the concerns that the safety board has, where possible. Otherwise there is always going to be bad feeling about this.
    I know what concerns the safety board had: a combination of Muslims in Birmingham burning Israeli flags, while the Maccabee fans burned Palestinian ones was only going to end in one way.

    Where there was a a complete failure from the authorities was in not asking the question: how we can allow fans to get to the game without a risk of violent conflagurations? Especially given this kind of thing is hardly unknown.
    Surely you meet their planes somewhere like Stansted, put the fans in buses straight to the ground, and the same in reverse after the match?

    The questions are because it doesn’t appear the authorities even entertained the idea, they just didn’t fancy a clash between two ethnic groups in Birmingham.
    I would probably have organized some pickup points in North London too.
    I don't know much about Israeli football, but given recent events, do Maccabi fans have a bad reputation?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,111
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/20/mutilated-bodies-palestinians-held-notorious-israeli-jail-gaza-officials

    Horrific account of alleged Israeli torture and murder of Palestinian detainees.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,637
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    With Pizza Hut having some issues here’s a little something from 94 for the motor racing fanatics here !!

    Max Verstappen visited one and ordered something with pineapple?
    Helps if I post it !!

    https://x.com/ukads3/status/1980289590092353657?s=61
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,915
    ydoethur said:

    Cicero said:

    Three years to the day since Liz Truss resigned.

    it has been an "interesting", in the Chinese sense of the word, period of British political history.

    It is ironic to reflect my grandmother - who lived most of her adult life in Caerphilly after moving to Cardiff from China - would be very happy indeed to see Labour come third there.

    Fifty years she spent voting for ‘anyone but Labour.’ Now forty years after she died, she’s about to get it. Thanks in no small part to Truss.
    Contrarily my late grandfather, who spent most of his life there, would be horrified!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,111
    Davey's word cloud is surely the best: most people don't know him but the ones that do like him. Farage has strong positives but also extremely strong negatives. "Dangerous" and "racist" are worse things to be thought of being than "weak" or "useless". "Evil" "fascist" and "liar" not great either. Definitely a plague on both your houses when it comes to Labour and the Tories, mind. I'd feel sorry for the electorate but I think we have got the politicians we deserve.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,975

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/20/mutilated-bodies-palestinians-held-notorious-israeli-jail-gaza-officials

    Horrific account of alleged Israeli torture and murder of Palestinian detainees.

    The Palestinians need a secure state outside the borders of Israel. They're not going to get it in Gaza.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,025
    @eek

    Thanks for the link on the last page, and there a couple of interesting thoughts that come out of it:

    (1) Anthropic has a very different business model to xAI. Anthropic is renting GPUs from AWS/Google, while xAI is buying GPUs (and gas turbines) and building data centres. It is not clear which is the right strategy: the risk for xAI is that what is a cutting edge GPU today is not one in three years time, and therefore they're sitting on a bunch of hardware that is well behind the state of the art. The risk for Anthropic is that AWS/Google jack up their prices, and then they're in real trouble.

    (2) The cost to train Anthropic models is insane. DeepSeek spent (although numbers are disputed) just $6m in compute to produce an LLM that is comparable to GPT4. The question here is about marginal spend: how much do you need to spend to produce something just very slightly better? Are there massively diminishing returns, and it's best to be slightly behind state of the art. (I would also suggest anyone who is interested check out Andrej Karpathy's Nanochat - he gives you everything you need to train up a ChatGPT 2.5 for about $100 in cloud costs. Which is *insane*.)

    (3) If the Anthropics/xAIs/OpenAIs are going to need to ramp prices massively compensate for cash burn, then suddenly local LLMs look really attractive. On my base Mac Mini M4 (a $500 computer), Google's Gemini models produce better than GPT3 output at really impressive speeds.

    (4) Groq (not Grok) is really interesting. They're not using off the self nVidia components, but have built chips solely designed for inference. The tokens per second you get on the open models are simply insane.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,512
    “The president of the United States has far more cards than the People’s Republic of China,” JD Vance crowed last week. It would be rewarding to play the vice-president at poker.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/oct/19/donald-trump-xi-jinping-china-trade-tariffs-us-beijing
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,025

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I can now see the point of Birmingham City council banning the Maccabi football supporters.

    Yes and no. Plenty of other teams in UEFA have troublesome hooligans, yet the game in Birmingham is the only time I can recall where away fans have been banned.

    No-one suggests that they are the good guys. But the issue is anti-semitism.
    No, it really isn't. At least, it probably isn't. The issue is the rioting at their last game in Amsterdam where Israeli fans attacked local Muslims and then it all kicked off bigly as local thugs, many antisemitic no doubt, are up for a ruck. Transferring this scenario to Birmingham is what the police are worried about.

    And as I posted earlier, I can remember in the dim and distant past, West Ham fans being banned from European games, so this is not new. Liverpool fans were also famously banned after Heysel. And all this is without betting on Israeli police banning Israeli fans unless you think Tel Aviv's Chief Constable is an Iranian mole.
    I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

    That said: given the issue was not specifically with the Villa, I cannot understand why there were not measures implemented to bus Macabee fans in from outside Birmingham. This happens all the time when there is the possibility of violent confrontations. That they did not reflects very poorly on the authorities.
    Its quite contentious and a lot of people suspect 'reasons' behind the decision. I think it would be in the public interest to share the concerns that the safety board has, where possible. Otherwise there is always going to be bad feeling about this.
    I know what concerns the safety board had: a combination of Muslims in Birmingham burning Israeli flags, while the Maccabee fans burned Palestinian ones was only going to end in one way.

    Where there was a a complete failure from the authorities was in not asking the question: how we can allow fans to get to the game without a risk of violent conflagurations? Especially given this kind of thing is hardly unknown.
    Surely you meet their planes somewhere like Stansted, put the fans in buses straight to the ground, and the same in reverse after the match?

    The questions are because it doesn’t appear the authorities even entertained the idea, they just didn’t fancy a clash between two ethnic groups in Birmingham.
    I would probably have organized some pickup points in North London too.
    I don't know much about Israeli football, but given recent events, do Maccabi fans have a bad reputation?
    From Israel: https://www.the-independent.com/sport/football/tel-aviv-maccabi-hapoel-derby-abandoned-israel-b2848195.html
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,453
    Afternoon all :)

    Relieved to be back in Stodge Towers after a day dodging (unsuccessfully) the showers. I swerved Plumpton and my friend told me the rain was biblical at times and the ground went from Good, Good to Firm in places to Good to Soft by the end of racing. I wonder what would have happened at Champions Day at Ascot last Saturday had this volume of rain arrived 72 hours earlier.

    I see we are back to using "word clouds" as a meaningful tool for political analysis - just after I sold my seaweed collection on Ebay to an amateur weather pundit who has predicted fifteen of the last two cold winters and is once again telling me the snow will be falling by Christmas.

    We missed last winter's cold by being in New Zealand when I was told on here there would be frequent power cuts and thousands would freeze to death - okay.

    The Mail tells me we are again on the cusp of economic disaster - the markets are going to crash and we'll be on nettle soup by February thanks to Starmer and Reeves.

    I'm reminded of Stodge's Seventh Law of Politics which states the only thing easier than thinking the best of people is thinking the worst of them. From Trump to Truss via Johnson and Starmer, it's easy to categorise and characterise. More often than not, it's nuanced with grey (of many shades). As I was reminded at a friend's funeral a couple of weeks back, blue was once the colour, now, I'm not so sure.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,111

    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.

    Traitors is the absolute best. It's a must watch in our house. I love the celebrity iteration, it's amazing to see these household names all interacting with each other in such bizarre ways, and clearly loving every minute of it. The worrying tendency to vote out minority participants first is a constant across civilian and celeb versions, though. The whole programme is a brilliant laboratory experiment into human nature, and reveals the good and the bad. I could watch it all day.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,580

    My words for each leader would be:

    Chancer
    Disappointing
    Dunno
    Inept

    I leave it as an exercise for the reader to match word to leader.

    Oooh, quizzes!

    I’ll go for:
    Farage
    Starmer
    Davey
    Badenoch
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,111

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/20/mutilated-bodies-palestinians-held-notorious-israeli-jail-gaza-officials

    Horrific account of alleged Israeli torture and murder of Palestinian detainees.

    The Palestinians need a secure state outside the borders of Israel. They're not going to get it in Gaza.
    I went to an event organised by A Land For All yesterday (an Israeli friend was performing in the musical first half of the programme, with a talk outlining the organisation and its take on the two state solution in the second half). It might seem unrealistic and utopian but some fresh thinking is necessary.

    https://www.2s1h.org/en
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,654
    Jezza on his hind legs blaming the fans, not the anti-Semites.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,580

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I can now see the point of Birmingham City council banning the Maccabi football supporters.

    Yes and no. Plenty of other teams in UEFA have troublesome hooligans, yet the game in Birmingham is the only time I can recall where away fans have been banned.

    No-one suggests that they are the good guys. But the issue is anti-semitism.
    No, it really isn't. At least, it probably isn't. The issue is the rioting at their last game in Amsterdam where Israeli fans attacked local Muslims and then it all kicked off bigly as local thugs, many antisemitic no doubt, are up for a ruck. Transferring this scenario to Birmingham is what the police are worried about.

    And as I posted earlier, I can remember in the dim and distant past, West Ham fans being banned from European games, so this is not new. Liverpool fans were also famously banned after Heysel. And all this is without betting on Israeli police banning Israeli fans unless you think Tel Aviv's Chief Constable is an Iranian mole.
    I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

    That said: given the issue was not specifically with the Villa, I cannot understand why there were not measures implemented to bus Macabee fans in from outside Birmingham. This happens all the time when there is the possibility of violent confrontations. That they did not reflects very poorly on the authorities.
    Its quite contentious and a lot of people suspect 'reasons' behind the decision. I think it would be in the public interest to share the concerns that the safety board has, where possible. Otherwise there is always going to be bad feeling about this.
    I know what concerns the safety board had: a combination of Muslims in Birmingham burning Israeli flags, while the Maccabee fans burned Palestinian ones was only going to end in one way.

    Where there was a a complete failure from the authorities was in not asking the question: how we can allow fans to get to the game without a risk of violent conflagurations? Especially given this kind of thing is hardly unknown.
    Surely you meet their planes somewhere like Stansted, put the fans in buses straight to the ground, and the same in reverse after the match?

    The questions are because it doesn’t appear the authorities even entertained the idea, they just didn’t fancy a clash between two ethnic groups in Birmingham.
    I would probably have organized some pickup points in North London too.
    I don't know much about Israeli football, but given recent events, do Maccabi fans have a bad reputation?
    Yes, they do.

    But, as with the discussion around whether Mulally is the right person to be ABC, it’s very possible to come to an otherwise valid decision for the wrong reasons.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,708
    Farage is the man then if we're looking in these turbulent times for a good strong racist.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,654
    Can we have a word cloud for Andrew Windsor?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,453
    Summing up individuals in one word is almost impossible.

    However, as it's Monday afternoon, we'll give it a go.

    Starmer - Composed
    Badenoch - Confident
    Davey - Relaxed
    Farage - Robust

    Remember Stodge's Seventh Law...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,132

    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.

    Traitors is the first reality TV show that's interested me since the first series of Big Brother in 2000.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,580

    Can we have a word cloud for Andrew Windsor?

    It would be a total nonce sense.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,580
    Andy_JS said:

    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.

    Traitors is the first reality TV show that's interested me since the first series of Big Brother in 2000.
    It interests me as much as Big Brother, I’m a Celeb and TOWIE.

    That is to say, not one iota.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,915
    stodge said:

    Summing up individuals in one word is almost impossible.

    However, as it's Monday afternoon, we'll give it a go.

    Starmer - Composed
    Badenoch - Confident
    Davey - Relaxed
    Farage - Robust

    Remember Stodge's Seventh Law...

    OK, I'll bite. Which is?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,453

    stodge said:

    Summing up individuals in one word is almost impossible.

    However, as it's Monday afternoon, we'll give it a go.

    Starmer - Composed
    Badenoch - Confident
    Davey - Relaxed
    Farage - Robust

    Remember Stodge's Seventh Law...

    OK, I'll bite. Which is?
    Mentioned in my previous - the only thing easier than thinking the best of people is thinking the worst of them.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,708

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/20/mutilated-bodies-palestinians-held-notorious-israeli-jail-gaza-officials

    Horrific account of alleged Israeli torture and murder of Palestinian detainees.

    The Palestinians need a secure state outside the borders of Israel. They're not going to get it in Gaza.
    I went to an event organised by A Land For All yesterday (an Israeli friend was performing in the musical first half of the programme, with a talk outlining the organisation and its take on the two state solution in the second half). It might seem unrealistic and utopian but some fresh thinking is necessary.

    https://www.2s1h.org/en
    Utopian, yes, viewing from where things are. But with different leadership in Israel, Palestine and America, who knows. And that can happen. Israel isn't Netanyahu, Palestine isn't Hamas, America isn't Trump.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,915
    ydoethur said:

    Can we have a word cloud for Andrew Windsor?

    It would be a total nonce sense.
    Are your students on half-term?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,915
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    Summing up individuals in one word is almost impossible.

    However, as it's Monday afternoon, we'll give it a go.

    Starmer - Composed
    Badenoch - Confident
    Davey - Relaxed
    Farage - Robust

    Remember Stodge's Seventh Law...

    OK, I'll bite. Which is?
    Mentioned in my previous - the only thing easier than thinking the best of people is thinking the worst of them.
    Thank you. Personally I don't think that's entirely true.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,683
    rcs1000 said:

    @eek

    Thanks for the link on the last page, and there a couple of interesting thoughts that come out of it:

    (1) Anthropic has a very different business model to xAI. Anthropic is renting GPUs from AWS/Google, while xAI is buying GPUs (and gas turbines) and building data centres. It is not clear which is the right strategy: the risk for xAI is that what is a cutting edge GPU today is not one in three years time, and therefore they're sitting on a bunch of hardware that is well behind the state of the art. The risk for Anthropic is that AWS/Google jack up their prices, and then they're in real trouble.

    (2) The cost to train Anthropic models is insane. DeepSeek spent (although numbers are disputed) just $6m in compute to produce an LLM that is comparable to GPT4. The question here is about marginal spend: how much do you need to spend to produce something just very slightly better? Are there massively diminishing returns, and it's best to be slightly behind state of the art. (I would also suggest anyone who is interested check out Andrej Karpathy's Nanochat - he gives you everything you need to train up a ChatGPT 2.5 for about $100 in cloud costs. Which is *insane*.)

    (3) If the Anthropics/xAIs/OpenAIs are going to need to ramp prices massively compensate for cash burn, then suddenly local LLMs look really attractive. On my base Mac Mini M4 (a $500 computer), Google's Gemini models produce better than GPT3 output at really impressive speeds.

    (4) Groq (not Grok) is really interesting. They're not using off the self nVidia components, but have built chips solely designed for inference. The tokens per second you get on the open models are simply insane.

    Re: Groq

    Have you ever come across the Digital Orrery Project?

    Basically forgotten now - https://nessie.ilab.sztaki.hu/~kornai/2023/Hopf/Resources/applegate_1985.pdf

    Cliff Notes version - a shoebox sized machine that could model the Solar System orders of magnitude faster and better than super computers of the time. Custom hardware for a single task.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,132
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.

    Traitors is the first reality TV show that's interested me since the first series of Big Brother in 2000.
    It interests me as much as Big Brother, I’m a Celeb and TOWIE.

    That is to say, not one iota.
    Have you tried watching it? I didn't bother for the first 2 series because I just assumed it would be rubbish.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,580

    ydoethur said:

    Can we have a word cloud for Andrew Windsor?

    It would be a total nonce sense.
    Are your students on half-term?
    I don’t know whether they are or not, but I am. I could of course have brought my computer and carried on working but I’ve had a very gruelling twelve months and wanted a complete break.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,580
    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.

    Traitors is the first reality TV show that's interested me since the first series of Big Brother in 2000.
    It interests me as much as Big Brother, I’m a Celeb and TOWIE.

    That is to say, not one iota.
    Have you tried watching it? I didn't bother for the first 2 series because I just assumed it would be rubbish.
    I watch practically no TV. Not even much live sport these days.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,915
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.

    Traitors is the first reality TV show that's interested me since the first series of Big Brother in 2000.
    It interests me as much as Big Brother, I’m a Celeb and TOWIE.

    That is to say, not one iota.
    Have you tried watching it? I didn't bother for the first 2 series because I just assumed it would be rubbish.
    I watch practically no TV. Not even much live sport these days.
    Mrs C and I have been enjoying the cricket. Luckily (well, part of the selection process, but don't tell her) she also enjoys the game.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,683

    TEST

    It works.

    Word clouds are very accurate except surprised to see Good outshining Racist for Farage.
    To be fair I would describe Farage 'Good" as a Leader. Look where he's taking them.

    That I really, REALLY, don't want to see him as a member of a Government, let alone leading it, doesn't alter the fact.
    The assumption in Western culture is that a Good Leader is a Good Person. That Brave People are also Good. This goes back into myth - in the Iliad, the quality of leadership is measured by bravery in single combat battle.

    So you hear people saying that X can't be brave, because he's bad. Or a good leader, because he's bad.

    Which leads to some strange things - such as the lack of modern condemnation of D'Annunzio, often by people damning Mussolini in the next breath. D'Annunzio was brave and quite a leader - he was also one of the founding fathers of Fascism in Italy.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,915

    TEST

    It works.

    Word clouds are very accurate except surprised to see Good outshining Racist for Farage.
    To be fair I would describe Farage 'Good" as a Leader. Look where he's taking them.

    That I really, REALLY, don't want to see him as a member of a Government, let alone leading it, doesn't alter the fact.
    The assumption in Western culture is that a Good Leader is a Good Person. That Brave People are also Good. This goes back into myth - in the Iliad, the quality of leadership is measured by bravery in single combat battle.

    So you hear people saying that X can't be brave, because he's bad. Or a good leader, because he's bad.

    Which leads to some strange things - such as the lack of modern condemnation of D'Annunzio, often by people damning Mussolini in the next breath. D'Annunzio was brave and quite a leader - he was also one of the founding fathers of Fascism in Italy.
    Was William the Conquerer good? He was a good leader, but he deserved his other nickname, the Bastard on at least two counts.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,835
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.

    Traitors is the first reality TV show that's interested me since the first series of Big Brother in 2000.
    It interests me as much as Big Brother, I’m a Celeb and TOWIE.

    That is to say, not one iota.
    Have you tried watching it? I didn't bother for the first 2 series because I just assumed it would be rubbish.
    I watch practically no TV. Not even much live sport these days.
    Me too. Wonder how typical we are. My impression is we are a growing minority.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,422
    Cicero said:

    Three years to the day since Liz Truss resigned.

    it has been an "interesting", in the Chinese sense of the word, period of British political history.

    Daily Star's 60p Lettuce Liz that lasted longer than Truss herself immortalised by BFI
    The lettuce livestream has been acquired by the British Film Institute’s National Archive as part of a digital collection featuring 400 significant pieces of British online video content

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/daily-stars-famous-lettuce-liz-36094044
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,434

    Off topic I have just had the request from the LDs to once again vet my social media. Its a very restrictive list which excludes YouTube and TikTok. I have emailed them back to flag that I can get tens of thousands of plays of a TikTok reel with me doing politics and they don't seem to want to vet it....

    The LDs need to really beef up their HQ social media capability. Get some young expertise in.
    LDs are outclassed by all the other parties in social media.
    Locally unbeatable with the leaflets but nationally, - invisible.
    Compare with Reform.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,434

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/20/mutilated-bodies-palestinians-held-notorious-israeli-jail-gaza-officials

    Horrific account of alleged Israeli torture and murder of Palestinian detainees.

    The Palestinians need a secure state outside the borders of Israel. They're not going to get it in Gaza.
    The Gazarians need to do a swap with the settlers in the West Bank. It's a win win.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,408
    edited 4:57PM
    Shit the bed.

    Bangladesh were 181/4 needing 12 runs from 12 balls to be beat Sri Lanka and they lost by 7 runs.

    Including four wickets in the first four balls of the final over.

    Were the Indian bookies on the blower?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/live/c4gz10wpemyt#Scorecard
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,312

    ydoethur said:

    Can we have a word cloud for Andrew Windsor?

    It would be a total nonce sense.
    Are your students on half-term?
    Next week, shurely?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,683

    TEST

    It works.

    Word clouds are very accurate except surprised to see Good outshining Racist for Farage.
    To be fair I would describe Farage 'Good" as a Leader. Look where he's taking them.

    That I really, REALLY, don't want to see him as a member of a Government, let alone leading it, doesn't alter the fact.
    The assumption in Western culture is that a Good Leader is a Good Person. That Brave People are also Good. This goes back into myth - in the Iliad, the quality of leadership is measured by bravery in single combat battle.

    So you hear people saying that X can't be brave, because he's bad. Or a good leader, because he's bad.

    Which leads to some strange things - such as the lack of modern condemnation of D'Annunzio, often by people damning Mussolini in the next breath. D'Annunzio was brave and quite a leader - he was also one of the founding fathers of Fascism in Italy.
    Was William the Conquerer good? He was a good leader, but he deserved his other nickname, the Bastard on at least two counts.
    The Harrying of The North was consider a bit fruity, even in his day.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,312
    stodge said:

    Summing up individuals in one word is almost impossible.

    However, as it's Monday afternoon, we'll give it a go.

    Starmer - Composed
    Badenoch - Confident
    Davey - Relaxed
    Farage - Robust

    Remember Stodge's Seventh Law...

    Starmer is composed????
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,915

    TEST

    It works.

    Word clouds are very accurate except surprised to see Good outshining Racist for Farage.
    To be fair I would describe Farage 'Good" as a Leader. Look where he's taking them.

    That I really, REALLY, don't want to see him as a member of a Government, let alone leading it, doesn't alter the fact.
    The assumption in Western culture is that a Good Leader is a Good Person. That Brave People are also Good. This goes back into myth - in the Iliad, the quality of leadership is measured by bravery in single combat battle.

    So you hear people saying that X can't be brave, because he's bad. Or a good leader, because he's bad.

    Which leads to some strange things - such as the lack of modern condemnation of D'Annunzio, often by people damning Mussolini in the next breath. D'Annunzio was brave and quite a leader - he was also one of the founding fathers of Fascism in Italy.
    Was William the Conquerer good? He was a good leader, but he deserved his other nickname, the Bastard on at least two counts.
    The Harrying of The North was consider a bit fruity, even in his day.
    As I said, a well-deserved nickname.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,155
    Barnesian said:

    Off topic I have just had the request from the LDs to once again vet my social media. Its a very restrictive list which excludes YouTube and TikTok. I have emailed them back to flag that I can get tens of thousands of plays of a TikTok reel with me doing politics and they don't seem to want to vet it....

    The LDs need to really beef up their HQ social media capability. Get some young expertise in.
    LDs are outclassed by all the other parties in social media.
    Locally unbeatable with the leaflets but nationally, - invisible.
    Compare with Reform.
    If they're serious about rejoining, they could try waving some EU flags around.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,708
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.

    Traitors is the first reality TV show that's interested me since the first series of Big Brother in 2000.
    It interests me as much as Big Brother, I’m a Celeb and TOWIE.

    That is to say, not one iota.
    Have you tried watching it? I didn't bother for the first 2 series because I just assumed it would be rubbish.
    I watch practically no TV. Not even much live sport these days.
    I've just rewatched the Watergate doc on iplayer. In those dark days of the 70s a president abusing the power of his office was brought to account. The system worked. Amazing how huge advances have been made in most fields of human endeavour since then but democratic politics has regressed.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,915

    Shit the bed.

    Bangladesh were 181/4 needing 12 runs from 12 balls to be beat Sri Lanka and they lost by 7 runs.

    Including four wickets in the first four balls of the final over.

    Were the Indian bookies on the blower?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/live/c4gz10wpemyt#Scorecard

    Doubt it; don't think the Bangladeshis are REALLY up to pressure.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,580

    TEST

    It works.

    Word clouds are very accurate except surprised to see Good outshining Racist for Farage.
    To be fair I would describe Farage 'Good" as a Leader. Look where he's taking them.

    That I really, REALLY, don't want to see him as a member of a Government, let alone leading it, doesn't alter the fact.
    The assumption in Western culture is that a Good Leader is a Good Person. That Brave People are also Good. This goes back into myth - in the Iliad, the quality of leadership is measured by bravery in single combat battle.

    So you hear people saying that X can't be brave, because he's bad. Or a good leader, because he's bad.

    Which leads to some strange things - such as the lack of modern condemnation of D'Annunzio, often by people damning Mussolini in the next breath. D'Annunzio was brave and quite a leader - he was also one of the founding fathers of Fascism in Italy.
    Was William the Conquerer good? He was a good leader, but he deserved his other nickname, the Bastard on at least two counts.
    The Harrying of The North was consider a bit fruity, even in his day.
    As I said, a well-deserved nickname.
    He was the Bastard to his friends.

    But to his enemies he was a lot worse.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,312

    Can we have a word cloud for Andrew Windsor?

    EPSTEIN
    VIRGINIA

    Woking
    Pizza Express
    Shooting Party

    [small font]
    Helicopters
    Pilot
    Falklands
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,408
    Republic now!

    Prince Andrew rejected free embassy stays for expensive hotels

    Paul Scully, a former trade envoy, said Andrew booked ‘pretty well an entire floor’ of the Mandarin Oriental hotel in Bangkok


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/prince-andrew-rejected-free-embassy-stays-for-expensive-hotels-39fphrjpt
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,093
    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.

    Traitors is the first reality TV show that's interested me since the first series of Big Brother in 2000.
    It interests me as much as Big Brother, I’m a Celeb and TOWIE.

    That is to say, not one iota.
    Have you tried watching it? I didn't bother for the first 2 series because I just assumed it would be rubbish.
    I watch practically no TV. Not even much live sport these days.
    I've just rewatched the Watergate doc on iplayer. In those dark days of the 70s a president abusing the power of his office was brought to account. The system worked. Amazing how huge advances have been made in most fields of human endeavour since then but democratic politics has regressed.
    Nixon wasn't really dealt with as he should have been. He conspired with a foreign power to undermine the US. It's pretty hard for a US President to do worse than that. I can only presume that there's an American squeamishness about historical European government remedies.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,580

    Can we have a word cloud for Andrew Windsor?

    EPSTEIN
    VIRGINIA
    SWEATY

    Woking
    Pizza Express
    Shooting Party

    [small font]
    Helicopters
    Pilot
    Falklands
    FTFY
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,782

    Can we have a word cloud for Andrew Windsor?

    EPSTEIN
    VIRGINIA

    Woking
    Pizza Express
    Shooting Party

    [small font]
    Helicopters
    Pilot
    Falklands
    Sweaty
    Honourable
    Lolita
    Orgy
    Pervert

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,312

    Republic now!

    Prince Andrew rejected free embassy stays for expensive hotels

    Paul Scully, a former trade envoy, said Andrew booked ‘pretty well an entire floor’ of the Mandarin Oriental hotel in Bangkok


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/prince-andrew-rejected-free-embassy-stays-for-expensive-hotels-39fphrjpt

    NO KINGS!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,915

    Republic now!

    Prince Andrew rejected free embassy stays for expensive hotels

    Paul Scully, a former trade envoy, said Andrew booked ‘pretty well an entire floor’ of the Mandarin Oriental hotel in Bangkok


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/prince-andrew-rejected-free-embassy-stays-for-expensive-hotels-39fphrjpt

    Very, very nice the Mandarin. Although I do know someone who turned down a room there for one of the American owned hotels in Bangkok.
  • rcs1000 said:

    (3) If the Anthropics/xAIs/OpenAIs are going to need to ramp prices massively compensate for cash burn, then suddenly local LLMs look really attractive. On my base Mac Mini M4 (a $500 computer), Google's Gemini models produce better than GPT3 output at really impressive speeds.

    I've been banging this drum for quite a while. It's amazing what local LLMs can do with even fairly modest hardware, and quality is only going to get better as consumer hardware becomes more capable. I use a fairly meaty PC (RTX 3090/Ryzen 9800X3D/128GB) but machines like your Mac Mini and mini PCs with AMD's Strix Halo APUs do a good job for a lot less money and power draw.

    With OpenAI losing money even when charging $200/month for ChatGPT the economics really favour local processing.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,960
    Just listened to the football ban in the HOC and to be fair Lisa Nandy was excellent

    She was on top of the issues and received support from across the house, apart from the usual suspects
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,461
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyp1gk0n23o

    Bye bye Non Crime Hate Incidents. Well, partially. They won't be investigated but it looks like they may still be recorded. The article is not quite clear.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,606
    edited 5:27PM
    carnforth said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyp1gk0n23o

    Bye bye Non Crime Hate Incidents. Well, partially. They won't be investigated but it looks like they may still be recorded. The article is not quite clear.

    It’s the recording of them, and subsequent disclosure on vetting forms, that’s the problem.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,093

    rcs1000 said:

    (3) If the Anthropics/xAIs/OpenAIs are going to need to ramp prices massively compensate for cash burn, then suddenly local LLMs look really attractive. On my base Mac Mini M4 (a $500 computer), Google's Gemini models produce better than GPT3 output at really impressive speeds.

    I've been banging this drum for quite a while. It's amazing what local LLMs can do with even fairly modest hardware, and quality is only going to get better as consumer hardware becomes more capable. I use a fairly meaty PC (RTX 3090/Ryzen 9800X3D/128GB) but machines like your Mac Mini and mini PCs with AMD's Strix Halo APUs do a good job for a lot less money and power draw.

    With OpenAI losing money even when charging $200/month for ChatGPT the economics really favour local processing.

    It is amazing, you're quite right. But that's more about something we think of being rich in ourselves actually being a pretty formulaic thing. Just because it seems to be almost human (but far better informed) makes LLM a substantial dead end that everyone is piling in to. My view anyway.

    I think the only final use of LLM will be some sort of initiation of a field of experimental philosophy. And it'll be as pointless as the non-experimental variety. Although of course rather interesting.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,272
    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyp1gk0n23o

    Bye bye Non Crime Hate Incidents. Well, partially. They won't be investigated but it looks like they may still be recorded. The article is not quite clear.

    It’s the recording of them, and subsequent disclosure on vetting forms, that’s the problem.
    If they have to be recorded, the data should be anonymous at source, otherwise an enhanced DBS effectively makes someone guilty without a trial.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,708
    carnforth said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyp1gk0n23o

    Bye bye Non Crime Hate Incidents. Well, partially. They won't be investigated but it looks like they may still be recorded. The article is not quite clear.

    The description implies they are known before being investigated not to be crimes.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,156

    Republic now!

    Prince Andrew rejected free embassy stays for expensive hotels

    Paul Scully, a former trade envoy, said Andrew booked ‘pretty well an entire floor’ of the Mandarin Oriental hotel in Bangkok


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/prince-andrew-rejected-free-embassy-stays-for-expensive-hotels-39fphrjpt

    I guess he wouldn't have been able to get through the huge numbers of girls if he stayed at the Embassy.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,260

    rcs1000 said:

    (3) If the Anthropics/xAIs/OpenAIs are going to need to ramp prices massively compensate for cash burn, then suddenly local LLMs look really attractive. On my base Mac Mini M4 (a $500 computer), Google's Gemini models produce better than GPT3 output at really impressive speeds.

    I've been banging this drum for quite a while. It's amazing what local LLMs can do with even fairly modest hardware, and quality is only going to get better as consumer hardware becomes more capable. I use a fairly meaty PC (RTX 3090/Ryzen 9800X3D/128GB) but machines like your Mac Mini and mini PCs with AMD's Strix Halo APUs do a good job for a lot less money and power draw.

    With OpenAI losing money even when charging $200/month for ChatGPT the economics really favour local processing.

    Given that most of Gen-AI seems to be about "mediocre but much much cheaper", that seems pretty likely.

    (By mediocre, I'm including its inability to generate actual triangular triangles for a trigonometry worksheet.)

    In which case, where's the value in all these high profile AI companies?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,835
    edited 5:42PM
    Andy_JS said:

    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.

    Traitors is the first reality TV show that's interested me since the first series of Big Brother in 2000.
    The original Big Brother was an interesting experiment in social interaction. It degenerated into a goon show quickly after that.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,260

    ydoethur said:

    Can we have a word cloud for Andrew Windsor?

    It would be a total nonce sense.
    Are your students on half-term?
    Next week, shurely?
    Quite a few places have moved to two weeks at the end of October. It's not a crazy idea- pupils and staff are pretty much running on fumes by now.

    (Thing 1 has this. Thing 2 doesn't, and neither do I. But meaningfully less traffic on the Superloop 2 route this morning.)
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,835
    edited 5:47PM

    TEST

    It works.

    Word clouds are very accurate except surprised to see Good outshining Racist for Farage.
    They are an excellent illustration of Churchill's famous dictum:

    'The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.'

    '
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,791
    0

    rcs1000 said:

    (3) If the Anthropics/xAIs/OpenAIs are going to need to ramp prices massively compensate for cash burn, then suddenly local LLMs look really attractive. On my base Mac Mini M4 (a $500 computer), Google's Gemini models produce better than GPT3 output at really impressive speeds.

    I've been banging this drum for quite a while. It's amazing what local LLMs can do with even fairly modest hardware, and quality is only going to get better as consumer hardware becomes more capable. I use a fairly meaty PC (RTX 3090/Ryzen 9800X3D/128GB) but machines like your Mac Mini and mini PCs with AMD's Strix Halo APUs do a good job for a lot less money and power draw.

    With OpenAI losing money even when charging $200/month for ChatGPT the economics really favour local processing.

    Given that most of Gen-AI seems to be about "mediocre but much much cheaper", that seems pretty likely.

    (By mediocre, I'm including its inability to generate actual triangular triangles for a trigonometry worksheet.)

    In which case, where's the value in all these high profile AI companies?
    It's a bit like Crypto where someone will be at the wrong end of the bubble - probably a pension fund.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,708
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyp1gk0n23o

    Bye bye Non Crime Hate Incidents. Well, partially. They won't be investigated but it looks like they may still be recorded. The article is not quite clear.

    It’s the recording of them, and subsequent disclosure on vetting forms, that’s the problem.
    If they have to be recorded, the data should be anonymous at source, otherwise an enhanced DBS effectively makes someone guilty without a trial.
    If to save time they're going from 'investigate then record if validated' to 'just record' it could mean more NCHIs.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,093
    Bloody hell!

    ** Betting (ok, no bet, but betting nonetheless) Post **

    The Greens are 42/44 on BF 'Most Seats' market.

    What alarms me most is that I haven't immediately laid anything anyone wants.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,636

    stodge said:

    Summing up individuals in one word is almost impossible.

    However, as it's Monday afternoon, we'll give it a go.

    Starmer - Composed
    Badenoch - Confident
    Davey - Relaxed
    Farage - Robust

    Remember Stodge's Seventh Law...

    Starmer is composed????
    Maybe compromised?

    Kimi picked up on his habit of saying something completely different at the end of his sentence than he did at the start at the last PMQs as did Matthew Rudd in the ST. It is becoming a meme for him which might prove a problem.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,708
    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.

    Traitors is the first reality TV show that's interested me since the first series of Big Brother in 2000.
    It interests me as much as Big Brother, I’m a Celeb and TOWIE.

    That is to say, not one iota.
    Have you tried watching it? I didn't bother for the first 2 series because I just assumed it would be rubbish.
    I watch practically no TV. Not even much live sport these days.
    I've just rewatched the Watergate doc on iplayer. In those dark days of the 70s a president abusing the power of his office was brought to account. The system worked. Amazing how huge advances have been made in most fields of human endeavour since then but democratic politics has regressed.
    Nixon wasn't really dealt with as he should have been. He conspired with a foreign power to undermine the US. It's pretty hard for a US President to do worse than that. I can only presume that there's an American squeamishness about historical European government remedies.
    That Vietnam incident, you mean?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,785
    kinabalu said:

    carnforth said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyp1gk0n23o

    Bye bye Non Crime Hate Incidents. Well, partially. They won't be investigated but it looks like they may still be recorded. The article is not quite clear.

    The description implies they are known before being investigated not to be crimes.
    I think the concept is abhorrent. Should never have been created. You might as well just call them ‘shame markers’ and make the culprit where a badge.

    The police should be there for crimes, not alleged nasty opinions and wrongthink.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,580

    kinabalu said:

    carnforth said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyp1gk0n23o

    Bye bye Non Crime Hate Incidents. Well, partially. They won't be investigated but it looks like they may still be recorded. The article is not quite clear.

    The description implies they are known before being investigated not to be crimes.
    I think the concept is abhorrent. Should never have been created. You might as well just call them ‘shame markers’ and make the culprit where a badge.

    The police should be there for crimes, not alleged nasty opinions and wrongthink.
    A lot of the Met are.

    Oh, you meant to *stop* crimes?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,093
    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.

    Traitors is the first reality TV show that's interested me since the first series of Big Brother in 2000.
    It interests me as much as Big Brother, I’m a Celeb and TOWIE.

    That is to say, not one iota.
    Have you tried watching it? I didn't bother for the first 2 series because I just assumed it would be rubbish.
    I watch practically no TV. Not even much live sport these days.
    I've just rewatched the Watergate doc on iplayer. In those dark days of the 70s a president abusing the power of his office was brought to account. The system worked. Amazing how huge advances have been made in most fields of human endeavour since then but democratic politics has regressed.
    Nixon wasn't really dealt with as he should have been. He conspired with a foreign power to undermine the US. It's pretty hard for a US President to do worse than that. I can only presume that there's an American squeamishness about historical European government remedies.
    That Vietnam incident, you mean?
    Not sure about the 'that', but certainly he conspired with North Vietnam to delay peace talks in order that he'd be more likely to get re-elected. (This may not be quite right, but the gist of it is - he betrayed his country for his own political ends)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,975
    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.

    Traitors is the first reality TV show that's interested me since the first series of Big Brother in 2000.
    It interests me as much as Big Brother, I’m a Celeb and TOWIE.

    That is to say, not one iota.
    Have you tried watching it? I didn't bother for the first 2 series because I just assumed it would be rubbish.
    I watch practically no TV. Not even much live sport these days.
    I've just rewatched the Watergate doc on iplayer. In those dark days of the 70s a president abusing the power of his office was brought to account. The system worked. Amazing how huge advances have been made in most fields of human endeavour since then but democratic politics has regressed.
    Nixon wasn't really dealt with as he should have been. He conspired with a foreign power to undermine the US. It's pretty hard for a US President to do worse than that. I can only presume that there's an American squeamishness about historical European government remedies.
    Starmer says hold my beer.

  • Omnium said:

    It is amazing, you're quite right. But that's more about something we think of being rich in ourselves actually being a pretty formulaic thing. Just because it seems to be almost human (but far better informed) makes LLM a substantial dead end that everyone is piling in to. My view anyway.

    LLMs have a variety of uses where they're very useful, they're an interesting technology that absolutely does have a future. But, yes, they are not human-type or human-level intelligences the AI industry portrays them as and they never will be.

    They will continue to improve in the areas they are already useful in, but anyone expecting them to ever function like a human mind are going to be disappointed. All those CEOs rushing to replace their employees with LLMs are going to look pretty stupid.

  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,407

    Andy_JS said:

    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.

    Traitors is the first reality TV show that's interested me since the first series of Big Brother in 2000.
    The original Big Brother was an interesting experiment in social interaction. It degenerated into a goon show quickly after that.
    I think Castaway came before Big Brother? That was a bit of a disaster though.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,580

    Omnium said:

    It is amazing, you're quite right. But that's more about something we think of being rich in ourselves actually being a pretty formulaic thing. Just because it seems to be almost human (but far better informed) makes LLM a substantial dead end that everyone is piling in to. My view anyway.

    LLMs have a variety of uses where they're very useful, they're an interesting technology that absolutely does have a future. But, yes, they are not human-type or human-level intelligences the AI industry portrays them as and they never will be.

    They will continue to improve in the areas they are already useful in, but anyone expecting them to ever function like a human mind are going to be disappointed. All those CEOs rushing to replace their employees with LLMs are going to look pretty stupid.
    Quite a lot of CEOs *are* pretty stupid.

    It was a constant refrain of Cyclefree that rather too many of them confused the value of their chair with the value of their input when negotiating their salaries.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,683
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    It is amazing, you're quite right. But that's more about something we think of being rich in ourselves actually being a pretty formulaic thing. Just because it seems to be almost human (but far better informed) makes LLM a substantial dead end that everyone is piling in to. My view anyway.

    LLMs have a variety of uses where they're very useful, they're an interesting technology that absolutely does have a future. But, yes, they are not human-type or human-level intelligences the AI industry portrays them as and they never will be.

    They will continue to improve in the areas they are already useful in, but anyone expecting them to ever function like a human mind are going to be disappointed. All those CEOs rushing to replace their employees with LLMs are going to look pretty stupid.
    Quite a lot of CEOs *are* pretty stupid.

    It was a constant refrain of Cyclefree that rather too many of them confused the value of their chair with the value of their input when negotiating their salaries.
    Even a Herman Miller Aeron with all the trimmings isn't worth that much....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,312

    Andy_JS said:

    As an aside:

    Is traitors the pinnacle of reality TV, and now the format is finished? It seems to have reduced the concept to its essentials, removing anything extraneous, besides some rather fun Crystal Maze style challenges.

    Traitors is the first reality TV show that's interested me since the first series of Big Brother in 2000.
    The original Big Brother was an interesting experiment in social interaction. It degenerated into a goon show quickly after that.
    I think Castaway came before Big Brother? That was a bit of a disaster though.
    Tom Hanks was great.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,708
    edited 6:19PM

    kinabalu said:

    carnforth said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyp1gk0n23o

    Bye bye Non Crime Hate Incidents. Well, partially. They won't be investigated but it looks like they may still be recorded. The article is not quite clear.

    The description implies they are known before being investigated not to be crimes.
    I think the concept is abhorrent. Should never have been created. You might as well just call them ‘shame markers’ and make the culprit where a badge.

    The police should be there for crimes, not alleged nasty opinions and wrongthink.
    The link with the Linehan case in the BBC item is a bit confusing. That was being investigated as a crime not a non crime. Hence the police statement that 'charges will not be brought'. There'd be no decision on charges to be made if it were being investigated as a NCHI - which the story says they will not be doing from now on. So I'm not sure what the point or ramification is. Saving police time, I guess. Plus maybe another shift in the direction of us all becoming a little more relaxed about racism in public.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,919
    The 4th CCP plenum is meeting in Beijing until Thursday. Some big rumours, following the arrest of 9 Generals over the past few days. Seems like Xi Jinping is facing a very determined challenge. Not convinced by some of the more outlandish suggestions from commentators, but the proposals for the next, 15th, five year plan could have some very important impacts on the global economy.

    Of course if some of these rumours are actually true, it may not be Xi making the announcements.
  • In which case, where's the value in all these high profile AI companies?

    There isn't any. I'm a huge bear on chatbot AI companies, because frankly I don't see how they're ever going to make money. Current LLMs are just not useful enough for people to pay the amount required to sustain them at scale. The whole bubble is going implode and cause financial chaos. I do look forward to ebay being flooded with AI hardware at fire-sale prices, I could use a couple of NVidia A6000s without selling a kidney to fund them.

    Only AI companies developing non-LLM models have a chance. Image and video editing and generation is going to be a solidly viable business, why learn Photoshop and pay Adobe a pricey subscription when an image editing AI can do the work for you with just text prompts.

    Data analysis another area where there's some money to be made, medical imaging, weather prediction, material science, etc, will all benefit from AI.
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