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This is why Find Out Now polls are such outliers – politicalbetting.com

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  • eekeek Posts: 31,529
    Foxy said:

    On topic. FON has a distinctive sample method, but perhaps one that picks up the politically disengaged a bit better. Whether they truly turn out to vote is the key question.

    Presumably the Postcode Lottery allows a good geographic spread, albeit one to low information gamblers. It might be of less interest to some demographics.

    Once again - you are confusing their polling base. Its a different website where if you visit daily and watch adverts or answer survey questions you get entered into a daily draw. It's not the Postcode Lottery demographic - it's a lower one than that..
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,639
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    What an awful brother the King is.

    King Charles considers removing Prince Andrew’s Duke of York title

    Relations between the brothers are said to be at tipping point after scandals involving Jeffrey Epstein and alleged spying by China


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/king-charles-prince-andrew-duke-york-title-news-hlcgmjlwb

    The response of the King seems quite mild, given the fact that Andrew has clearly misled the court as well as the media concerning his relationship with the Epstein circle. If I were the King I would be incandescent that his brother has clearly lied to his face. More to the point, there is the open question of what else Andrew has been doing that is, shall we say, unlikely to be popular in the country at large.

    If, as I think we may suspect, it includes highly problematic financial arrangements, I think that Andrew will be exiled to the outer darkness for the rest of his life. Certainly the Prince of Wales seems to be of this opinion. This is notwithstanding the attempts of Beatrice and Eugenie to stay in good standing with the court, which I think are completely doomed.

    Ironically it is not the size of the Royal family that is the problem- the Duke of Kent and the Gloucesters have been doing sterling work, as have the Edinburghs and the Princess Royal and Sir Tim... even Zara and Mike. The Yorks on the other hand...
    It’s rare for someone not to possess a single redeeming feature, but I think Andrew achieves that distinction.

    A friend of mine wrote a wonderful adult Harry Potter fanfic, where even Bellatrix is horrified by what she sees inside Andrew’s mind. She hands him over to Fenrir Greyback, to punish as he sees fit.

    “Like you, Fenrir’s an animal, but even so, he has some standards, and he thinks you’ve fallen short of them.”
    The curious thing is that the late Queen seemed very fond of Andrew. Perhaps it was as simple as being a person that only a mother could love.
    In his 20s Andrew was actually quite good looking and dashing and after having flown helicopters in the Falklands War relatively popular as a war hero.

    His older brother though was seen as rather stuffy, old fashioned, with overly large ears and strange interests such as talking to trees and soon overshadowed by his much more glamorous and charismatic and warm wife Princess Diana
    You know, flying helicopters is actually quite hard. Flying them on and off ships is even harder. What a shame he couldn't stick with the whole piloting thing.
    He just would have ended up flying Epstein one day and it would all go the same way.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,224
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    What an awful brother the King is.

    King Charles considers removing Prince Andrew’s Duke of York title

    Relations between the brothers are said to be at tipping point after scandals involving Jeffrey Epstein and alleged spying by China


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/king-charles-prince-andrew-duke-york-title-news-hlcgmjlwb

    The response of the King seems quite mild, given the fact that Andrew has clearly misled the court as well as the media concerning his relationship with the Epstein circle. If I were the King I would be incandescent that his brother has clearly lied to his face. More to the point, there is the open question of what else Andrew has been doing that is, shall we say, unlikely to be popular in the country at large.

    If, as I think we may suspect, it includes highly problematic financial arrangements, I think that Andrew will be exiled to the outer darkness for the rest of his life. Certainly the Prince of Wales seems to be of this opinion. This is notwithstanding the attempts of Beatrice and Eugenie to stay in good standing with the court, which I think are completely doomed.

    Ironically it is not the size of the Royal family that is the problem- the Duke of Kent and the Gloucesters have been doing sterling work, as have the Edinburghs and the Princess Royal and Sir Tim... even Zara and Mike. The Yorks on the other hand...
    It’s rare for someone not to possess a single redeeming feature, but I think Andrew achieves that distinction.

    A friend of mine wrote a wonderful adult Harry Potter fanfic, where even Bellatrix is horrified by what she sees inside Andrew’s mind. She hands him over to Fenrir Greyback, to punish as he sees fit.

    “Like you, Fenrir’s an animal, but even so, he has some standards, and he thinks you’ve fallen short of them.”
    The curious thing is that the late Queen seemed very fond of Andrew. Perhaps it was as simple as being a person that only a mother could love.
    In his 20s Andrew was actually quite good looking and dashing and after having flown helicopters in the Falklands War relatively popular as a war hero.

    His older brother though was seen as rather stuffy, old fashioned, with overly large ears and strange interests such as talking to trees and soon overshadowed by his much more glamorous and charismatic and warm wife Princess Diana
    You know, flying helicopters is actually quite hard. Flying them on and off ships is even harder. What a shame he couldn't stick with the whole piloting thing.
    I seem to remember reading that one of the jobs, during the Falklands, was flying the helicopter in such a way that it distracted the Exocets away from the warships. Not for everyone, but Andrew was up for it. So, maybe, one redeeming feature in his record?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,986
    DavidL said:

    On topic, the question is surely whether people who play post code lottery are more typical of the UK public than, say, those willing to be on a Yougov panel and get paid seriously under the NMW for filling in their surveys. I think the answer might well be yes.

    The answer is that neither will be a represenative sample. The YouGov panel collects people who either (a) want to earn $5 a month answering questions about detergent, and (b) some political junkies. The Post Code Lottery one collects people who like the National Lottery, but realize the odds are slightly better with Post Code Lottery (and/or want a subscription lottery service).

    The trick will come in the weighting. Because no matter what you start with, you are highly unlikely to get a balanced sample.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,311
    Prince Andrew is set to give up all of his titles, including the Duke of York, the Telegraph understands.

    The development follows a string of new scandals concerning his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and his relationship with an alleged Chinese spy.

    It is understood he will put all his titles “in abeyance” having come under huge pressure from the King.

    He will also give up his membership of the Order of the Garter but will, however, remain a prince, having been born the son of Elizabeth II.

    The Duke’s ex-wife, Sarah, Duchess of York, will also relinquish her title and will simply be known as Sarah Ferguson.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,278

    Prince Andrew is set to give up all of his titles, including the Duke of York, the Telegraph understands.

    The development follows a string of new scandals concerning his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and his relationship with an alleged Chinese spy.

    It is understood he will put all his titles “in abeyance” having come under huge pressure from the King.

    He will also give up his membership of the Order of the Garter but will, however, remain a prince, having been born the son of Elizabeth II.

    The Duke’s ex-wife, Sarah, Duchess of York, will also relinquish her title and will simply be known as Sarah Ferguson.

    Or Fergie.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,108

    Prince Andrew is set to give up all of his titles, including the Duke of York, the Telegraph understands.

    The development follows a string of new scandals concerning his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and his relationship with an alleged Chinese spy.

    It is understood he will put all his titles “in abeyance” having come under huge pressure from the King.

    He will also give up his membership of the Order of the Garter but will, however, remain a prince, having been born the son of Elizabeth II.

    The Duke’s ex-wife, Sarah, Duchess of York, will also relinquish her title and will simply be known as Sarah Ferguson.

    That his ‘come clean’ Maitlis interview is now proven a lack of lies was the last straw.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,278
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Exclusive: Bridget Phillipson Says Electing Lucy Powell Deputy Labour Leader Will Cost Party Next Election

    https://x.com/HuffPostUKPol/status/1979216057869971739

    I mean we know Lucy Powell is quite shit, but not sure that is Labour's core issue.
    I doubt the average voter has even heard of Lucy Powell, let alone will decide their vote on whether she is Labour Deputy Leader or not
    We’ve had a lot of newsworthy Lucys recently. Bloodthirsty baby killer / innocent victim of miscarriage of justice Lucy Letby, bloodthirsty inciter of racist Arson / blessed martyr of the woke mafia Lucy Connolly, and now [Burnham stan account / saviour of Labour?] Lucy Powell.

    Whither the next Lucy?
    Lucy Beaumont
    Lucy Fallon
    Lucy Bronze
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,190
    edited October 17
    Prince Andrew is set to give up all of his titles, including the Duke of York, the Telegraph understands.

    The development follows a string of new scandals concerning his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and his relationship with an alleged Chinese spy.

    It is understood he will put all his titles “in abeyance” having come under huge pressure from the King.

    He will also give up his membership of the Order of the Garter but will, however, remain a prince, having been born the son of Elizabeth II.

    The Duke’s ex-wife, Sarah, Duchess of York, will also relinquish her title and will simply be known as Sarah Ferguson.
    Do you mean Andrew Windsor?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,615

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    What an awful brother the King is.

    King Charles considers removing Prince Andrew’s Duke of York title

    Relations between the brothers are said to be at tipping point after scandals involving Jeffrey Epstein and alleged spying by China


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/king-charles-prince-andrew-duke-york-title-news-hlcgmjlwb

    The response of the King seems quite mild, given the fact that Andrew has clearly misled the court as well as the media concerning his relationship with the Epstein circle. If I were the King I would be incandescent that his brother has clearly lied to his face. More to the point, there is the open question of what else Andrew has been doing that is, shall we say, unlikely to be popular in the country at large.

    If, as I think we may suspect, it includes highly problematic financial arrangements, I think that Andrew will be exiled to the outer darkness for the rest of his life. Certainly the Prince of Wales seems to be of this opinion. This is notwithstanding the attempts of Beatrice and Eugenie to stay in good standing with the court, which I think are completely doomed.

    Ironically it is not the size of the Royal family that is the problem- the Duke of Kent and the Gloucesters have been doing sterling work, as have the Edinburghs and the Princess Royal and Sir Tim... even Zara and Mike. The Yorks on the other hand...
    It’s rare for someone not to possess a single redeeming feature, but I think Andrew achieves that distinction.

    A friend of mine wrote a wonderful adult Harry Potter fanfic, where even Bellatrix is horrified by what she sees inside Andrew’s mind. She hands him over to Fenrir Greyback, to punish as he sees fit.

    “Like you, Fenrir’s an animal, but even so, he has some standards, and he thinks you’ve fallen short of them.”
    The curious thing is that the late Queen seemed very fond of Andrew. Perhaps it was as simple as being a person that only a mother could love.
    In his 20s Andrew was actually quite good looking and dashing and after having flown helicopters in the Falklands War relatively popular as a war hero.

    His older brother though was seen as rather stuffy, old fashioned, with overly large ears and strange interests such as talking to trees and soon overshadowed by his much more glamorous and charismatic and warm wife Princess Diana
    You know, flying helicopters is actually quite hard. Flying them on and off ships is even harder. What a shame he couldn't stick with the whole piloting thing.
    I seem to remember reading that one of the jobs, during the Falklands, was flying the helicopter in such a way that it distracted the Exocets away from the warships. Not for everyone, but Andrew was up for it. So, maybe, one redeeming feature in his record?
    Yup - with a blip enhancer turned on. By broadcasting at the right frequency to match the radar of the incoming missile, it would make the helicopter a more attractive target than any ship.

    And because the missile was programmed to fly at a fixed altitude, a helicopter a couple of hundred feet up wasn’t in danger. Theoretically.

    Not a job I would queue up for.
  • If the title of the Duke of York is vacant then I am wiling to take the title to restore some decency and dignity to the title.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,129
    tlg86 said:

    Number 10 has asked West Midlands to set out what extra resource they need to police the game.

    The IDF?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,190
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Number 10 has asked West Midlands to set out what extra resource they need to police the game.

    Policing the game isn't the issue, policing the antisemites on the streets is.

    The Police need to do their job, not say that having no Jews will make it easier to keep the antisemites non-violent.
    It really shouldn't be a problem though: away fans should be bussed in, as they are for a great many football matches in the UK.
    The other bonus is they get to stay somewhere other than Birmingham*.

    *As a Brummie I can say that. About a decade ago I was kept up for hours by the drive by gunshots whilst staying at the Campanile in Nechells.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,604
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic, the question is surely whether people who play post code lottery are more typical of the UK public than, say, those willing to be on a Yougov panel and get paid seriously under the NMW for filling in their surveys. I think the answer might well be yes.

    The answer is that neither will be a represenative sample. The YouGov panel collects people who either (a) want to earn $5 a month answering questions about detergent, and (b) some political junkies. The Post Code Lottery one collects people who like the National Lottery, but realize the odds are slightly better with Post Code Lottery (and/or want a subscription lottery service).

    The trick will come in the weighting. Because no matter what you start with, you are highly unlikely to get a balanced sample.
    You will note that I didn't say either of them were good. What I said was that of the two the post code lottery camp may well be better.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,430

    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,604

    If the title of the Duke of York is vacant then I am wiling to take the title to restore some decency and dignity to the title.

    Apart from the nursery rhyme I am not entirely sure why we need a Duke of York at all. I think keeping the title in abeyance until everyone even remotely associated with it is dead might be the best option.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,410
    edited October 17
    Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    Most of the public will be thinking this makes life easier for that particular day and stops some violence between two groups they look down on. Which is all true, but it sets a dangerous precedent. Ministers have to consider that in a way the person on the omnibus doesn't.

    ps Governing by public opinion polling has been terrible for us. Lets not encourage it!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,190

    tlg86 said:

    Number 10 has asked West Midlands to set out what extra resource they need to police the game.

    The IDF?
    What the Luftwaffe did to Birmingham is not dissimilar to what the IDF did to Gaza.

    Let's hope the Gazans have better luck with their town planners
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,314
    Weird decisions: Rufford Ford proposed for reopening.

    bbc.com/news/articles/cdjxv18g2p4o

    The Council had better control the dangerous ASBO if this happens, or some people will be getting the tin tacks in.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,639
    DavidL said:

    If the title of the Duke of York is vacant then I am wiling to take the title to restore some decency and dignity to the title.

    Apart from the nursery rhyme I am not entirely sure why we need a Duke of York at all. I think keeping the title in abeyance until everyone even remotely associated with it is dead might be the best option.
    Surely they can create new ones based on other historic cities. We have Edinburgh, Cambridge, Gloucester and Lancaster (sort of). Why not Winchester, Bath, or Oxford. A lot of the counties would probably work, Sussex is a bit naff now but we have Norfolk, Cornwall (again a bit of an outlier) so plenty of options, Duke of The Isle of Wight might be too much of a mouthful but otherwise open season. There are obvs loads of Scottish and Welsh options but my Scots and Welsh knowledge is bloody abysmal.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,278

    tlg86 said:

    Number 10 has asked West Midlands to set out what extra resource they need to police the game.

    The IDF?
    What the Luftwaffe did to Birmingham is not dissimilar to what the IDF did to Gaza.

    Let's hope the Gazans have better luck with their town planners
    Do we ban German football fans from Birmingham?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,430

    Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    Most of the public will be thinking this makes life easier for that particular day and stops some violence between two groups they look down on. Which is all true, but it sets a dangerous precedent. Ministers have to consider that in a way the person on the omnibus doesn't.

    ps Governing by public opinion polling has been terrible for us. Lets not encourage it!
    What do the public know?
    Can we trust them to elect governments?
    I think you've made your point.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,233
    Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    Suspect it's like the nightclub thing- the police, and most of the public, really would be happier if football fans didn't exist. They are noisy and hard work to manage.

    The Tel Aviv "fans" do sound like the sort of people who, ignoring all religio-cultural stuff, we don't really want visiting here. Not because of their ethnicity or religion, but because of the thuggish behaviour many of them indulge in. But right now, we can't ignore that stuff.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,847
    boulay said:

    If the title of the Duke of York is vacant then I am wiling to take the title to restore some decency and dignity to the title.

    No, they need to give it to Bonnie Blue, after all, she’s had 10,000 men.
    Wasn't a hill she had them up and down, mind.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,233
    DavidL said:

    If the title of the Duke of York is vacant then I am wiling to take the title to restore some decency and dignity to the title.

    Apart from the nursery rhyme I am not entirely sure why we need a Duke of York at all. I think keeping the title in abeyance until everyone even remotely associated with it is dead might be the best option.
    When he was up, he was up
    And when he was down, he was down.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,314
    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Exclusive: Bridget Phillipson Says Electing Lucy Powell Deputy Labour Leader Will Cost Party Next Election

    https://x.com/HuffPostUKPol/status/1979216057869971739

    I mean we know Lucy Powell is quite shit, but not sure that is Labour's core issue.
    I doubt the average voter has even heard of Lucy Powell, let alone will decide their vote on whether she is Labour Deputy Leader or not
    We’ve had a lot of newsworthy Lucys recently. Bloodthirsty baby killer / innocent victim of miscarriage of justice Lucy Letby, bloodthirsty inciter of racist Arson / blessed martyr of the woke mafia Lucy Connolly, and now [Burnham stan account / saviour of Labour?] Lucy Powell.

    Whither the next Lucy?
    Lucy Beaumont
    Lucy Fallon
    Lucy Bronze
    Glad to see Bronze is in third place on your list.
    The original famous Lucy - apart from Paddington's Aunt Lucy - was Lucinda Prior-Palmer who fell off her horse into the same water feature twice at the Badminton Horse Trials.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,639
    dixiedean said:

    boulay said:

    If the title of the Duke of York is vacant then I am wiling to take the title to restore some decency and dignity to the title.

    No, they need to give it to Bonnie Blue, after all, she’s had 10,000 men.
    Wasn't a hill she had them up and down, mind.
    More a “hump”?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,410
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    Most of the public will be thinking this makes life easier for that particular day and stops some violence between two groups they look down on. Which is all true, but it sets a dangerous precedent. Ministers have to consider that in a way the person on the omnibus doesn't.

    ps Governing by public opinion polling has been terrible for us. Lets not encourage it!
    What do the public know?
    Can we trust them to elect governments?
    I think you've made your point.
    I don't mind them electing governments, I mind the people elected taking the easy route and not making unpopular decisions at times.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,190

    tlg86 said:

    Number 10 has asked West Midlands to set out what extra resource they need to police the game.

    The IDF?
    What the Luftwaffe did to Birmingham is not dissimilar to what the IDF did to Gaza.

    Let's hope the Gazans have better luck with their town planners
    Do we ban German football fans from Birmingham?
    More importantly do we ban Town Planners?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,278

    If the title of the Duke of York is vacant then I am wiling to take the title to restore some decency and dignity to the title.

    Duke of Sheffield, shirley?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,986
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic, the question is surely whether people who play post code lottery are more typical of the UK public than, say, those willing to be on a Yougov panel and get paid seriously under the NMW for filling in their surveys. I think the answer might well be yes.

    The answer is that neither will be a represenative sample. The YouGov panel collects people who either (a) want to earn $5 a month answering questions about detergent, and (b) some political junkies. The Post Code Lottery one collects people who like the National Lottery, but realize the odds are slightly better with Post Code Lottery (and/or want a subscription lottery service).

    The trick will come in the weighting. Because no matter what you start with, you are highly unlikely to get a balanced sample.
    You will note that I didn't say either of them were good. What I said was that of the two the post code lottery camp may well be better.
    I would be interested to see the distribution of postcodes for people playing Postcode Lottery - and especially a demographic distribution.

    I would also be interested in understanding how it works: do they weight postcodes by how many people have signed up from them? If not, then if you are in an underrepresented postcode (SW4, say), then it might make economic sense to play. If so, then it's just another lottery where the payout is going to be (say) 50%.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,314

    tlg86 said:

    Number 10 has asked West Midlands to set out what extra resource they need to police the game.

    The IDF?
    What the Luftwaffe did to Birmingham is not dissimilar to what the IDF did to Gaza.

    Let's hope the Gazans have better luck with their town planners
    Gaza is more like Dresden. A claimed 60000 dead vs 2000 in Birmingham.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,087

    If the title of the Duke of York is vacant then I am wiling to take the title to restore some decency and dignity to the title.

    Do you imagine the character change would suit you?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,430
    edited October 17

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    Most of the public will be thinking this makes life easier for that particular day and stops some violence between two groups they look down on. Which is all true, but it sets a dangerous precedent. Ministers have to consider that in a way the person on the omnibus doesn't.

    ps Governing by public opinion polling has been terrible for us. Lets not encourage it!
    What do the public know?
    Can we trust them to elect governments?
    I think you've made your point.
    I don't mind them electing governments, I mind the people elected taking the easy route and not making unpopular decisions at times.
    I actually agree with you.
    My political maxims are:
    1. Lead don't follow
    2. Keep it simple
    3. Be brave
    4. Be controversial
    5. Be honest
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,224
    Article on Macron's record unpopularity.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/17/broken-promises-and-political-crises-how-emmanuel-macron-fell-from-french-favour

    His predecessor, Hollande, was so unpopular that he didn't even try to run for re-election. And his predecessor, Sarkozy, is shortly going to jail.

    Maybe France is simply ungovernable? Or is it that people's expectations there, here, and most places in the democratic world, are now so unrealistic that the slide to populism/authoritarianism is unavoidable? We (UK & France & USA) avoided it in the 30's. Maybe not so lucky this time?

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,410
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    Most of the public will be thinking this makes life easier for that particular day and stops some violence between two groups they look down on. Which is all true, but it sets a dangerous precedent. Ministers have to consider that in a way the person on the omnibus doesn't.

    ps Governing by public opinion polling has been terrible for us. Lets not encourage it!
    What do the public know?
    Can we trust them to elect governments?
    I think you've made your point.
    I don't mind them electing governments, I mind the people elected taking the easy route and not making unpopular decisions at times.
    I actually agree with you.
    My political maxims are:
    1. Lead don't follow
    2. Keep it simple
    3. Be brave
    4. Be controversial
    5. Be honest
    My favourite politicians so far have been Ken Clarke and Paddy Ashdown. I think they tick those boxes as well as any.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,302

    Cookie said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    A solid series of by election results in the new "heartland" of Surrey for the LDs with gains at both County and District/Borough level.

    The County Council now has 39 Conservative and 42 non-Conservative Councillors and it will be interesting to see, IF the elections for the Shadow Authorities due to take place next year are postponed a year, whether some of the remaining County Councillors will fancy serving up to a seven year term.

    That's how to suspend democracy - not through authoritarianism but reorganisation.

    I do wonder if the UK is heading towards a French type election, which pits the Liberal Democrats against Reform.
    They don't seem to overlap. Reform are/have found themselves in Red Wall territory mainly because the Conservatives 'one-nation' Tories have been gutted from the party by Boris. LibDems have the largest share of the leafy shires constituencies. How Reform can pivot from the left behind to bank managers (see previous quote) will be difficult especially since they are a one-man band.

    Labour have a spread throughout the spectrum from RW to LS but it's definitely weaker at the RW end and stronger at the LS end. Kemi's chasing the Reform rhetoric will simply reinforce the damage done by Boris. Have I mentioned she's a dud*.

    * It would be more appropriate to say she was the least-worst option for LOTO though that penny hasn't dropped yet. She has an unusually high opinion of her own abilities.
    As a conservative I am content that Badenoch is the best leader for the party and she had an excellent conference and is appearing more in the media
    Her "excellent Conference" was mainly excellent because it has been talked up by loyalists like yourself. The fact it wasn't the anticipated clown show (much the same as Labour- no coughing, no letters falling off sign boards) it was deemed a win.
    Most commentators were complimentary and general it is accepted she had a good conference
    Most commentators said Starmer had a good conference until Farage offered his withering right to reply, which was given more of an airing and gained more traction than Starmer's original. And after that, polled voters stated they hated Starmer and his speech, even as mainstream commentators were still nodding in approval with Starmer.
    I may have misplaced the timeline, but wasn't that the conference which was overshadowed with Angela Rayner resigning? Fairly sure it was a bit of a shambles?
    No that was the "reset".

    The Conference was widely anticipated to be a disaster as King over the Water Burnham arrived to claim his crown. He left early with his tail between his legs and Starmer made a dreary but gaff- free speech which was hailed because contrary to expectations the wheels remained on the Labour bus. Then Farage struck like a Cobra...
    Politics would be so much easier without opposition politicians criticising. Nobly, Labour never did that when they were in opposition :smile:
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,233

    tlg86 said:

    Number 10 has asked West Midlands to set out what extra resource they need to police the game.

    The IDF?
    What the Luftwaffe did to Birmingham is not dissimilar to what the IDF did to Gaza.

    Let's hope the Gazans have better luck with their town planners
    I'm sure it's an old chestnut, but who did more harm to British towns after 1945- the Luftwaffe or British architects?

    (For a while, I lived in a 1970s rebuild in the middle of a Victorian suburb. It didn't look right, but it was at least blandly inoffensive.)
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,639

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    Most of the public will be thinking this makes life easier for that particular day and stops some violence between two groups they look down on. Which is all true, but it sets a dangerous precedent. Ministers have to consider that in a way the person on the omnibus doesn't.

    ps Governing by public opinion polling has been terrible for us. Lets not encourage it!
    What do the public know?
    Can we trust them to elect governments?
    I think you've made your point.
    I don't mind them electing governments, I mind the people elected taking the easy route and not making unpopular decisions at times.
    I actually agree with you.
    My political maxims are:
    1. Lead don't follow
    2. Keep it simple
    3. Be brave
    4. Be controversial
    5. Be honest
    My favourite politicians so far have been Ken Clarke and Paddy Ashdown. I think they tick those boxes as well as any.
    I think Mrs Ashdown might have a dispute with you about the last one.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,410
    boulay said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    Most of the public will be thinking this makes life easier for that particular day and stops some violence between two groups they look down on. Which is all true, but it sets a dangerous precedent. Ministers have to consider that in a way the person on the omnibus doesn't.

    ps Governing by public opinion polling has been terrible for us. Lets not encourage it!
    What do the public know?
    Can we trust them to elect governments?
    I think you've made your point.
    I don't mind them electing governments, I mind the people elected taking the easy route and not making unpopular decisions at times.
    I actually agree with you.
    My political maxims are:
    1. Lead don't follow
    2. Keep it simple
    3. Be brave
    4. Be controversial
    5. Be honest
    My favourite politicians so far have been Ken Clarke and Paddy Ashdown. I think they tick those boxes as well as any.
    I think Mrs Ashdown might have a dispute with you about the last one.
    Expecting politicians to live like saints doesn't help governance either!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,314
    I'm interested in how Putin would get to Hungary.

    Presumably overflying Bulgaria and Serbia?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,087

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    Most of the public will be thinking this makes life easier for that particular day and stops some violence between two groups they look down on. Which is all true, but it sets a dangerous precedent. Ministers have to consider that in a way the person on the omnibus doesn't.

    ps Governing by public opinion polling has been terrible for us. Lets not encourage it!
    What do the public know?
    Can we trust them to elect governments?
    I think you've made your point.
    I don't mind them electing governments, I mind the people elected taking the easy route and not making unpopular decisions at times.
    I actually agree with you.
    My political maxims are:
    1. Lead don't follow
    2. Keep it simple
    3. Be brave
    4. Be controversial
    5. Be honest
    My favourite politicians so far have been Ken Clarke and Paddy Ashdown. I think they tick those boxes as well as any.
    @Barnesian's list is actually pretty good. Interesting.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,190
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    A solid series of by election results in the new "heartland" of Surrey for the LDs with gains at both County and District/Borough level.

    The County Council now has 39 Conservative and 42 non-Conservative Councillors and it will be interesting to see, IF the elections for the Shadow Authorities due to take place next year are postponed a year, whether some of the remaining County Councillors will fancy serving up to a seven year term.

    That's how to suspend democracy - not through authoritarianism but reorganisation.

    I do wonder if the UK is heading towards a French type election, which pits the Liberal Democrats against Reform.
    They don't seem to overlap. Reform are/have found themselves in Red Wall territory mainly because the Conservatives 'one-nation' Tories have been gutted from the party by Boris. LibDems have the largest share of the leafy shires constituencies. How Reform can pivot from the left behind to bank managers (see previous quote) will be difficult especially since they are a one-man band.

    Labour have a spread throughout the spectrum from RW to LS but it's definitely weaker at the RW end and stronger at the LS end. Kemi's chasing the Reform rhetoric will simply reinforce the damage done by Boris. Have I mentioned she's a dud*.

    * It would be more appropriate to say she was the least-worst option for LOTO though that penny hasn't dropped yet. She has an unusually high opinion of her own abilities.
    As a conservative I am content that Badenoch is the best leader for the party and she had an excellent conference and is appearing more in the media
    Her "excellent Conference" was mainly excellent because it has been talked up by loyalists like yourself. The fact it wasn't the anticipated clown show (much the same as Labour- no coughing, no letters falling off sign boards) it was deemed a win.
    Most commentators were complimentary and general it is accepted she had a good conference
    Most commentators said Starmer had a good conference until Farage offered his withering right to reply, which was given more of an airing and gained more traction than Starmer's original. And after that, polled voters stated they hated Starmer and his speech, even as mainstream commentators were still nodding in approval with Starmer.
    I may have misplaced the timeline, but wasn't that the conference which was overshadowed with Angela Rayner resigning? Fairly sure it was a bit of a shambles?
    No that was the "reset".

    The Conference was widely anticipated to be a disaster as King over the Water Burnham arrived to claim his crown. He left early with his tail between his legs and Starmer made a dreary but gaff- free speech which was hailed because contrary to expectations the wheels remained on the Labour bus. Then Farage struck like a Cobra...
    Politics would be so much easier without opposition politicians criticising. Nobly, Labour never did that when they were in opposition :smile:
    I don't understand what I wrote that warranted that post.

    Are you upset by my laughing at Burnham or my commenting on the whining Farage?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,320
    edited October 17

    Article on Macron's record unpopularity.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/17/broken-promises-and-political-crises-how-emmanuel-macron-fell-from-french-favour

    His predecessor, Hollande, was so unpopular that he didn't even try to run for re-election. And his predecessor, Sarkozy, is shortly going to jail.

    Maybe France is simply ungovernable? Or is it that people's expectations there, here, and most places in the democratic world, are now so unrealistic that the slide to populism/authoritarianism is unavoidable? We (UK & France & USA) avoided it in the 30's. Maybe not so lucky this time?

    That’s a perceptive article. Political disillusionment is surely the product of expectations x delivery.

    France like Britain and the US suffers from exceptionalism. France should be the greatest country on earth, by divine right. That it falls somewhat short (though it is still one of the best countries on the planet) must therefore be the fault of the politicians.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,759

    Perhaps this has already been noticed, so forgive the repetition if it is, but yesterday in Surrey there were six by-elections. The Lib Dems won all six (which is perhaps to be expected) but the surprise for me is that, on average, the Conservatives polled 15%. That's got to be a cause for concern in Conservative Party HQ. They really ought to be getting a lot more than 15% in Surrey.

    I’ve made my peace that for the next four years elections for the Tories including the general election will be like the first day of the Battle of the Somme.
    Bad on the left flank but highly successful in the south (as long as the French are there)?

    First day of the Somme is both a terrible tragedy and a missed opportunity. The inability to communicate easily to the front and the lack of ability to get follow up troops lost the chance of cracking the front wide open. In the South the cavalry were set to go in, and the line was broken.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,190
    Andrew Windsor is a vile character. This vomit inducing event tops his greatest hits.

    https://www.newsweek.com/prince-andrew-interaction-princess-eugenie-raises-eyebrows-online-1741984
  • rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    What an awful brother the King is.

    King Charles considers removing Prince Andrew’s Duke of York title

    Relations between the brothers are said to be at tipping point after scandals involving Jeffrey Epstein and alleged spying by China


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/king-charles-prince-andrew-duke-york-title-news-hlcgmjlwb

    The response of the King seems quite mild, given the fact that Andrew has clearly misled the court as well as the media concerning his relationship with the Epstein circle. If I were the King I would be incandescent that his brother has clearly lied to his face. More to the point, there is the open question of what else Andrew has been doing that is, shall we say, unlikely to be popular in the country at large.

    If, as I think we may suspect, it includes highly problematic financial arrangements, I think that Andrew will be exiled to the outer darkness for the rest of his life. Certainly the Prince of Wales seems to be of this opinion. This is notwithstanding the attempts of Beatrice and Eugenie to stay in good standing with the court, which I think are completely doomed.

    Ironically it is not the size of the Royal family that is the problem- the Duke of Kent and the Gloucesters have been doing sterling work, as have the Edinburghs and the Princess Royal and Sir Tim... even Zara and Mike. The Yorks on the other hand...
    It’s rare for someone not to possess a single redeeming feature, but I think Andrew achieves that distinction.

    A friend of mine wrote a wonderful adult Harry Potter fanfic, where even Bellatrix is horrified by what she sees inside Andrew’s mind. She hands him over to Fenrir Greyback, to punish as he sees fit.

    “Like you, Fenrir’s an animal, but even so, he has some standards, and he thinks you’ve fallen short of them.”
    The curious thing is that the late Queen seemed very fond of Andrew. Perhaps it was as simple as being a person that only a mother could love.
    In his 20s Andrew was actually quite good looking and dashing and after having flown helicopters in the Falklands War relatively popular as a war hero.

    His older brother though was seen as rather stuffy, old fashioned, with overly large ears and strange interests such as talking to trees and soon overshadowed by his much more glamorous and charismatic and warm wife Princess Diana
    You know, flying helicopters is actually quite hard. Flying them on and off ships is even harder. What a shame he couldn't stick with the whole piloting thing.
    His skill with a chopper has never been in doubt.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,615
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    A solid series of by election results in the new "heartland" of Surrey for the LDs with gains at both County and District/Borough level.

    The County Council now has 39 Conservative and 42 non-Conservative Councillors and it will be interesting to see, IF the elections for the Shadow Authorities due to take place next year are postponed a year, whether some of the remaining County Councillors will fancy serving up to a seven year term.

    That's how to suspend democracy - not through authoritarianism but reorganisation.

    I do wonder if the UK is heading towards a French type election, which pits the Liberal Democrats against Reform.
    They don't seem to overlap. Reform are/have found themselves in Red Wall territory mainly because the Conservatives 'one-nation' Tories have been gutted from the party by Boris. LibDems have the largest share of the leafy shires constituencies. How Reform can pivot from the left behind to bank managers (see previous quote) will be difficult especially since they are a one-man band.

    Labour have a spread throughout the spectrum from RW to LS but it's definitely weaker at the RW end and stronger at the LS end. Kemi's chasing the Reform rhetoric will simply reinforce the damage done by Boris. Have I mentioned she's a dud*.

    * It would be more appropriate to say she was the least-worst option for LOTO though that penny hasn't dropped yet. She has an unusually high opinion of her own abilities.
    As a conservative I am content that Badenoch is the best leader for the party and she had an excellent conference and is appearing more in the media
    Her "excellent Conference" was mainly excellent because it has been talked up by loyalists like yourself. The fact it wasn't the anticipated clown show (much the same as Labour- no coughing, no letters falling off sign boards) it was deemed a win.
    Most commentators were complimentary and general it is accepted she had a good conference
    Most commentators said Starmer had a good conference until Farage offered his withering right to reply, which was given more of an airing and gained more traction than Starmer's original. And after that, polled voters stated they hated Starmer and his speech, even as mainstream commentators were still nodding in approval with Starmer.
    I may have misplaced the timeline, but wasn't that the conference which was overshadowed with Angela Rayner resigning? Fairly sure it was a bit of a shambles?
    No that was the "reset".

    The Conference was widely anticipated to be a disaster as King over the Water Burnham arrived to claim his crown. He left early with his tail between his legs and Starmer made a dreary but gaff- free speech which was hailed because contrary to expectations the wheels remained on the Labour bus. Then Farage struck like a Cobra...
    Politics would be so much easier without opposition politicians criticising. Nobly, Labour never did that when they were in opposition :smile:
    For shame.

    Starmer, in opposition, took an unexpected interest in biology and tried to name a variant of a new species in honour the Prime Minister
  • Ugh, change the law.

    Prince Andrew has been forced to relinquish all his titles including the Duke of York and Knight of the Garter after his friendship with the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein threatened to overshadow the reign of his brother, King Charles.

    He will remain known as Prince Andrew, in accordance with a law first set down by George V in 1917 which stipulates that a son of a monarch can be called a prince.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,639
    TimS said:

    Article on Macron's record unpopularity.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/17/broken-promises-and-political-crises-how-emmanuel-macron-fell-from-french-favour

    His predecessor, Hollande, was so unpopular that he didn't even try to run for re-election. And his predecessor, Sarkozy, is shortly going to jail.

    Maybe France is simply ungovernable? Or is it that people's expectations there, here, and most places in the democratic world, are now so unrealistic that the slide to populism/authoritarianism is unavoidable? We (UK & France & USA) avoided it in the 30's. Maybe not so lucky this time?

    That’s a perceptive article. Political disillusionment is surely the product of expectations x delivery.

    France like Britain and the US suffers from exceptionalism. France should be the greatest country on earth, by divine right. That it falls somewhat short (though it is still one of the best countries on the planet) must therefore be the fault of the politicians.
    A history of “greatness” can be a terrible ball and chain. On a human basis if you were very successful and lost everything you would suffer more than someone who had always been steady and unexceptional. We still have witching recent times the French and British controlling large parts of the globe and our cultures shaping the modern world but our power is gone.
  • Perhaps this has already been noticed, so forgive the repetition if it is, but yesterday in Surrey there were six by-elections. The Lib Dems won all six (which is perhaps to be expected) but the surprise for me is that, on average, the Conservatives polled 15%. That's got to be a cause for concern in Conservative Party HQ. They really ought to be getting a lot more than 15% in Surrey.

    I’ve made my peace that for the next four years elections for the Tories including the general election will be like the first day of the Battle of the Somme.
    Bad on the left flank but highly successful in the south (as long as the French are there)?

    First day of the Somme is both a terrible tragedy and a missed opportunity. The inability to communicate easily to the front and the lack of ability to get follow up troops lost the chance of cracking the front wide open. In the South the cavalry were set to go in, and the line was broken.
    As a student I couldn't process the fact my teacher said British casualties on the first day numbered 57,000.

    To some extent I still cannot.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,759

    tlg86 said:

    Number 10 has asked West Midlands to set out what extra resource they need to police the game.

    The IDF?
    What the Luftwaffe did to Birmingham is not dissimilar to what the IDF did to Gaza.

    Let's hope the Gazans have better luck with their town planners
    Too many places in the U.K. suffered from a double whammy of Luftwaffe bombs AND truly terrible town planning/architects. So much of continental Europe was rebuilt in the style it had been before the war. Not so for poor old Blighty.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,190

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    A solid series of by election results in the new "heartland" of Surrey for the LDs with gains at both County and District/Borough level.

    The County Council now has 39 Conservative and 42 non-Conservative Councillors and it will be interesting to see, IF the elections for the Shadow Authorities due to take place next year are postponed a year, whether some of the remaining County Councillors will fancy serving up to a seven year term.

    That's how to suspend democracy - not through authoritarianism but reorganisation.

    I do wonder if the UK is heading towards a French type election, which pits the Liberal Democrats against Reform.
    They don't seem to overlap. Reform are/have found themselves in Red Wall territory mainly because the Conservatives 'one-nation' Tories have been gutted from the party by Boris. LibDems have the largest share of the leafy shires constituencies. How Reform can pivot from the left behind to bank managers (see previous quote) will be difficult especially since they are a one-man band.

    Labour have a spread throughout the spectrum from RW to LS but it's definitely weaker at the RW end and stronger at the LS end. Kemi's chasing the Reform rhetoric will simply reinforce the damage done by Boris. Have I mentioned she's a dud*.

    * It would be more appropriate to say she was the least-worst option for LOTO though that penny hasn't dropped yet. She has an unusually high opinion of her own abilities.
    As a conservative I am content that Badenoch is the best leader for the party and she had an excellent conference and is appearing more in the media
    Her "excellent Conference" was mainly excellent because it has been talked up by loyalists like yourself. The fact it wasn't the anticipated clown show (much the same as Labour- no coughing, no letters falling off sign boards) it was deemed a win.
    Most commentators were complimentary and general it is accepted she had a good conference
    Most commentators said Starmer had a good conference until Farage offered his withering right to reply, which was given more of an airing and gained more traction than Starmer's original. And after that, polled voters stated they hated Starmer and his speech, even as mainstream commentators were still nodding in approval with Starmer.
    I may have misplaced the timeline, but wasn't that the conference which was overshadowed with Angela Rayner resigning? Fairly sure it was a bit of a shambles?
    No that was the "reset".

    The Conference was widely anticipated to be a disaster as King over the Water Burnham arrived to claim his crown. He left early with his tail between his legs and Starmer made a dreary but gaff- free speech which was hailed because contrary to expectations the wheels remained on the Labour bus. Then Farage struck like a Cobra...
    Politics would be so much easier without opposition politicians criticising. Nobly, Labour never did that when they were in opposition :smile:
    For shame.

    Starmer, in opposition, took an unexpected interest in biology and tried to name a variant of a new species in honour the Prime Minister
    I suspect an awful lot of Starmer hatred stems from his being nasty to poor Boris, our King of Hearts
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,314

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    A solid series of by election results in the new "heartland" of Surrey for the LDs with gains at both County and District/Borough level.

    The County Council now has 39 Conservative and 42 non-Conservative Councillors and it will be interesting to see, IF the elections for the Shadow Authorities due to take place next year are postponed a year, whether some of the remaining County Councillors will fancy serving up to a seven year term.

    That's how to suspend democracy - not through authoritarianism but reorganisation.

    I do wonder if the UK is heading towards a French type election, which pits the Liberal Democrats against Reform.
    They don't seem to overlap. Reform are/have found themselves in Red Wall territory mainly because the Conservatives 'one-nation' Tories have been gutted from the party by Boris. LibDems have the largest share of the leafy shires constituencies. How Reform can pivot from the left behind to bank managers (see previous quote) will be difficult especially since they are a one-man band.

    Labour have a spread throughout the spectrum from RW to LS but it's definitely weaker at the RW end and stronger at the LS end. Kemi's chasing the Reform rhetoric will simply reinforce the damage done by Boris. Have I mentioned she's a dud*.

    * It would be more appropriate to say she was the least-worst option for LOTO though that penny hasn't dropped yet. She has an unusually high opinion of her own abilities.
    As a conservative I am content that Badenoch is the best leader for the party and she had an excellent conference and is appearing more in the media
    Her "excellent Conference" was mainly excellent because it has been talked up by loyalists like yourself. The fact it wasn't the anticipated clown show (much the same as Labour- no coughing, no letters falling off sign boards) it was deemed a win.
    Most commentators were complimentary and general it is accepted she had a good conference
    Most commentators said Starmer had a good conference until Farage offered his withering right to reply, which was given more of an airing and gained more traction than Starmer's original. And after that, polled voters stated they hated Starmer and his speech, even as mainstream commentators were still nodding in approval with Starmer.
    I may have misplaced the timeline, but wasn't that the conference which was overshadowed with Angela Rayner resigning? Fairly sure it was a bit of a shambles?
    No that was the "reset".

    The Conference was widely anticipated to be a disaster as King over the Water Burnham arrived to claim his crown. He left early with his tail between his legs and Starmer made a dreary but gaff- free speech which was hailed because contrary to expectations the wheels remained on the Labour bus. Then Farage struck like a Cobra...
    Politics would be so much easier without opposition politicians criticising. Nobly, Labour never did that when they were in opposition :smile:
    For shame.

    Starmer, in opposition, took an unexpected interest in biology and tried to name a variant of a new species in honour the Prime Minister
    I suspect an awful lot of Starmer hatred stems from his being nasty to poor Boris, our King of Hearts
    I think that much of it stems from the opposition having nothing else substantive to talk about.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,615

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    A solid series of by election results in the new "heartland" of Surrey for the LDs with gains at both County and District/Borough level.

    The County Council now has 39 Conservative and 42 non-Conservative Councillors and it will be interesting to see, IF the elections for the Shadow Authorities due to take place next year are postponed a year, whether some of the remaining County Councillors will fancy serving up to a seven year term.

    That's how to suspend democracy - not through authoritarianism but reorganisation.

    I do wonder if the UK is heading towards a French type election, which pits the Liberal Democrats against Reform.
    They don't seem to overlap. Reform are/have found themselves in Red Wall territory mainly because the Conservatives 'one-nation' Tories have been gutted from the party by Boris. LibDems have the largest share of the leafy shires constituencies. How Reform can pivot from the left behind to bank managers (see previous quote) will be difficult especially since they are a one-man band.

    Labour have a spread throughout the spectrum from RW to LS but it's definitely weaker at the RW end and stronger at the LS end. Kemi's chasing the Reform rhetoric will simply reinforce the damage done by Boris. Have I mentioned she's a dud*.

    * It would be more appropriate to say she was the least-worst option for LOTO though that penny hasn't dropped yet. She has an unusually high opinion of her own abilities.
    As a conservative I am content that Badenoch is the best leader for the party and she had an excellent conference and is appearing more in the media
    Her "excellent Conference" was mainly excellent because it has been talked up by loyalists like yourself. The fact it wasn't the anticipated clown show (much the same as Labour- no coughing, no letters falling off sign boards) it was deemed a win.
    Most commentators were complimentary and general it is accepted she had a good conference
    Most commentators said Starmer had a good conference until Farage offered his withering right to reply, which was given more of an airing and gained more traction than Starmer's original. And after that, polled voters stated they hated Starmer and his speech, even as mainstream commentators were still nodding in approval with Starmer.
    I may have misplaced the timeline, but wasn't that the conference which was overshadowed with Angela Rayner resigning? Fairly sure it was a bit of a shambles?
    No that was the "reset".

    The Conference was widely anticipated to be a disaster as King over the Water Burnham arrived to claim his crown. He left early with his tail between his legs and Starmer made a dreary but gaff- free speech which was hailed because contrary to expectations the wheels remained on the Labour bus. Then Farage struck like a Cobra...
    Politics would be so much easier without opposition politicians criticising. Nobly, Labour never did that when they were in opposition :smile:
    For shame.

    Starmer, in opposition, took an unexpected interest in biology and tried to name a variant of a new species in honour the Prime Minister
    I suspect an awful lot of Starmer hatred stems from his being nasty to poor Boris, our King of Hearts
    You are saying that the Green/Fruit&Nut Part types are motivated by him dissing Boris? Or the Labour membership?

    Starmer is simply a C- Prime Minister - a tin ear for politics and no leadership skills
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,210
    .

    tlg86 said:

    Number 10 has asked West Midlands to set out what extra resource they need to police the game.

    The IDF?
    What the Luftwaffe did to Birmingham is not dissimilar to what the IDF did to Gaza.

    Let's hope the Gazans have better luck with their town planners
    Had the Luftwaffe possessed that capability, we'd likely have lost the war.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,190
    Nigelb said:

    .

    tlg86 said:

    Number 10 has asked West Midlands to set out what extra resource they need to police the game.

    The IDF?
    What the Luftwaffe did to Birmingham is not dissimilar to what the IDF did to Gaza.

    Let's hope the Gazans have better luck with their town planners
    Had the Luftwaffe possessed that capability, we'd likely have lost the war.
    Birmingham's former Debenhams building suggests we might have lost the war. We wouldn't have done that to ourselves, would we?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,087

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    A solid series of by election results in the new "heartland" of Surrey for the LDs with gains at both County and District/Borough level.

    The County Council now has 39 Conservative and 42 non-Conservative Councillors and it will be interesting to see, IF the elections for the Shadow Authorities due to take place next year are postponed a year, whether some of the remaining County Councillors will fancy serving up to a seven year term.

    That's how to suspend democracy - not through authoritarianism but reorganisation.

    I do wonder if the UK is heading towards a French type election, which pits the Liberal Democrats against Reform.
    They don't seem to overlap. Reform are/have found themselves in Red Wall territory mainly because the Conservatives 'one-nation' Tories have been gutted from the party by Boris. LibDems have the largest share of the leafy shires constituencies. How Reform can pivot from the left behind to bank managers (see previous quote) will be difficult especially since they are a one-man band.

    Labour have a spread throughout the spectrum from RW to LS but it's definitely weaker at the RW end and stronger at the LS end. Kemi's chasing the Reform rhetoric will simply reinforce the damage done by Boris. Have I mentioned she's a dud*.

    * It would be more appropriate to say she was the least-worst option for LOTO though that penny hasn't dropped yet. She has an unusually high opinion of her own abilities.
    As a conservative I am content that Badenoch is the best leader for the party and she had an excellent conference and is appearing more in the media
    Her "excellent Conference" was mainly excellent because it has been talked up by loyalists like yourself. The fact it wasn't the anticipated clown show (much the same as Labour- no coughing, no letters falling off sign boards) it was deemed a win.
    Most commentators were complimentary and general it is accepted she had a good conference
    Most commentators said Starmer had a good conference until Farage offered his withering right to reply, which was given more of an airing and gained more traction than Starmer's original. And after that, polled voters stated they hated Starmer and his speech, even as mainstream commentators were still nodding in approval with Starmer.
    I may have misplaced the timeline, but wasn't that the conference which was overshadowed with Angela Rayner resigning? Fairly sure it was a bit of a shambles?
    No that was the "reset".

    The Conference was widely anticipated to be a disaster as King over the Water Burnham arrived to claim his crown. He left early with his tail between his legs and Starmer made a dreary but gaff- free speech which was hailed because contrary to expectations the wheels remained on the Labour bus. Then Farage struck like a Cobra...
    Politics would be so much easier without opposition politicians criticising. Nobly, Labour never did that when they were in opposition :smile:
    For shame.

    Starmer, in opposition, took an unexpected interest in biology and tried to name a variant of a new species in honour the Prime Minister
    I suspect an awful lot of Starmer hatred stems from his being nasty to poor Boris, our King of Hearts
    Who knows quite how and why Starmer became the very unpopular figure that he now seems to be. (Perhaps best to get away from 'hatred')

    He's obviously done little to endear himself to the nation, but it seems that somehow, for inexplicable reasons, he has tipped many otherwise sensible people over the edge.

    I remember having a conversation with a chap called Gary from Yorkshire - he didn't care about facts, he just hated Maggie. I think time has proved him rather misguided - Thatcher is probably our greatest ever PM. So perhaps this seemingly unfounded disapproval might actually mean that Starmer is set to become a great PM too.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,747
    Evening all
    Telegraph has a piece on analysis of local elections results since May.
    National equivalent shares are Ref 29 LD 18 Con 18 Lab 16 Green 9 with seats projected at Ref just short of majority 311, Lab 107, LD 84, Con 63
    Actual shares before adjusting for NEV are Ref 31 LD 18 Con 17 Lab 17 Green 9

    Local elections in line with national polling but with a 4 point swing Lab to LD.........
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,220

    Ugh, change the law.

    Prince Andrew has been forced to relinquish all his titles including the Duke of York and Knight of the Garter after his friendship with the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein threatened to overshadow the reign of his brother, King Charles.

    He will remain known as Prince Andrew, in accordance with a law first set down by George V in 1917 which stipulates that a son of a monarch can be called a prince.

    Still, he's basically just Andy now.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,190
    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    A solid series of by election results in the new "heartland" of Surrey for the LDs with gains at both County and District/Borough level.

    The County Council now has 39 Conservative and 42 non-Conservative Councillors and it will be interesting to see, IF the elections for the Shadow Authorities due to take place next year are postponed a year, whether some of the remaining County Councillors will fancy serving up to a seven year term.

    That's how to suspend democracy - not through authoritarianism but reorganisation.

    I do wonder if the UK is heading towards a French type election, which pits the Liberal Democrats against Reform.
    They don't seem to overlap. Reform are/have found themselves in Red Wall territory mainly because the Conservatives 'one-nation' Tories have been gutted from the party by Boris. LibDems have the largest share of the leafy shires constituencies. How Reform can pivot from the left behind to bank managers (see previous quote) will be difficult especially since they are a one-man band.

    Labour have a spread throughout the spectrum from RW to LS but it's definitely weaker at the RW end and stronger at the LS end. Kemi's chasing the Reform rhetoric will simply reinforce the damage done by Boris. Have I mentioned she's a dud*.

    * It would be more appropriate to say she was the least-worst option for LOTO though that penny hasn't dropped yet. She has an unusually high opinion of her own abilities.
    As a conservative I am content that Badenoch is the best leader for the party and she had an excellent conference and is appearing more in the media
    Her "excellent Conference" was mainly excellent because it has been talked up by loyalists like yourself. The fact it wasn't the anticipated clown show (much the same as Labour- no coughing, no letters falling off sign boards) it was deemed a win.
    Most commentators were complimentary and general it is accepted she had a good conference
    Most commentators said Starmer had a good conference until Farage offered his withering right to reply, which was given more of an airing and gained more traction than Starmer's original. And after that, polled voters stated they hated Starmer and his speech, even as mainstream commentators were still nodding in approval with Starmer.
    I may have misplaced the timeline, but wasn't that the conference which was overshadowed with Angela Rayner resigning? Fairly sure it was a bit of a shambles?
    No that was the "reset".

    The Conference was widely anticipated to be a disaster as King over the Water Burnham arrived to claim his crown. He left early with his tail between his legs and Starmer made a dreary but gaff- free speech which was hailed because contrary to expectations the wheels remained on the Labour bus. Then Farage struck like a Cobra...
    Politics would be so much easier without opposition politicians criticising. Nobly, Labour never did that when they were in opposition :smile:
    For shame.

    Starmer, in opposition, took an unexpected interest in biology and tried to name a variant of a new species in honour the Prime Minister
    I suspect an awful lot of Starmer hatred stems from his being nasty to poor Boris, our King of Hearts
    Who knows quite how and why Starmer became the very unpopular figure that he now seems to be. (Perhaps best to get away from 'hatred')

    He's obviously done little to endear himself to the nation, but it seems that somehow, for inexplicable reasons, he has tipped many otherwise sensible people over the edge.

    I remember having a conversation with a chap called Gary from Yorkshire - he didn't care about facts, he just hated Maggie. I think time has proved him rather misguided - Thatcher is probably our greatest ever PM. So perhaps this seemingly unfounded disapproval might actually mean that Starmer is set to become a great PM too.
    I am not convinced by Mrs Thatcher, and I certainly don't believe Starmer is set to be anything other than Labour 's last or penultimate PM.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,311
    JL Partners polling bod talking about state of play

    https://youtu.be/E2aOxNr7s1g
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,567
    Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    So labour and the Lib Dem’s have more anti semites than the other two parties.

    It’s about time politicians did what is right and not based on opinion polls.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,834
    Your Party website is up, with a host of tentative policies and rules - still quite generic but moving forward (founding conference is in 6 weeks):

    https://www.yourparty.uk/about/

    I remain interested but non-committal until after the conference. It's taken the opposite approach from Reform, which had Farage cheerily sketching policies off the cuff and modifying them as he went along - this one is determinedly member-led and consequently slow to lay down detailed policies. There are a host of regional conferences before the national one building up. We'll see...
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,187

    Nigelb said:

    .

    tlg86 said:

    Number 10 has asked West Midlands to set out what extra resource they need to police the game.

    The IDF?
    What the Luftwaffe did to Birmingham is not dissimilar to what the IDF did to Gaza.

    Let's hope the Gazans have better luck with their town planners
    Had the Luftwaffe possessed that capability, we'd likely have lost the war.
    Birmingham's former Debenhams building suggests we might have lost the war. We wouldn't have done that to ourselves, would we?
    I went to a local history exhibition a while ago and looked at photos of my town from just after the war. I commented to an old boy that it was a shame that a lot of the Victorian buildings had been torn down. He seemed indifferent and said "Maybe but at the time we just saw them as old, run down and dirty". It made me think that the problem with post war architecture wasn't the intention but the cheap materials and lack of infrastructure mandated by cash strapped local councils.
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,567

    Nigelb said:

    .

    tlg86 said:

    Number 10 has asked West Midlands to set out what extra resource they need to police the game.

    The IDF?
    What the Luftwaffe did to Birmingham is not dissimilar to what the IDF did to Gaza.

    Let's hope the Gazans have better luck with their town planners
    Had the Luftwaffe possessed that capability, we'd likely have lost the war.
    Birmingham's former Debenhams building suggests we might have lost the war. We wouldn't have done that to ourselves, would we?
    Mind you The Square Peg, in the former Rackhams, is a great place to go.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,302
    edited October 17
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    A solid series of by election results in the new "heartland" of Surrey for the LDs with gains at both County and District/Borough level.

    The County Council now has 39 Conservative and 42 non-Conservative Councillors and it will be interesting to see, IF the elections for the Shadow Authorities due to take place next year are postponed a year, whether some of the remaining County Councillors will fancy serving up to a seven year term.

    That's how to suspend democracy - not through authoritarianism but reorganisation.

    I do wonder if the UK is heading towards a French type election, which pits the Liberal Democrats against Reform.
    They don't seem to overlap. Reform are/have found themselves in Red Wall territory mainly because the Conservatives 'one-nation' Tories have been gutted from the party by Boris. LibDems have the largest share of the leafy shires constituencies. How Reform can pivot from the left behind to bank managers (see previous quote) will be difficult especially since they are a one-man band.

    Labour have a spread throughout the spectrum from RW to LS but it's definitely weaker at the RW end and stronger at the LS end. Kemi's chasing the Reform rhetoric will simply reinforce the damage done by Boris. Have I mentioned she's a dud*.

    * It would be more appropriate to say she was the least-worst option for LOTO though that penny hasn't dropped yet. She has an unusually high opinion of her own abilities.
    As a conservative I am content that Badenoch is the best leader for the party and she had an excellent conference and is appearing more in the media
    Her "excellent Conference" was mainly excellent because it has been talked up by loyalists like yourself. The fact it wasn't the anticipated clown show (much the same as Labour- no coughing, no letters falling off sign boards) it was deemed a win.
    Most commentators were complimentary and general it is accepted she had a good conference
    Most commentators said Starmer had a good conference until Farage offered his withering right to reply, which was given more of an airing and gained more traction than Starmer's original. And after that, polled voters stated they hated Starmer and his speech, even as mainstream commentators were still nodding in approval with Starmer.
    I may have misplaced the timeline, but wasn't that the conference which was overshadowed with Angela Rayner resigning? Fairly sure it was a bit of a shambles?
    No that was the "reset".

    The Conference was widely anticipated to be a disaster as King over the Water Burnham arrived to claim his crown. He left early with his tail between his legs and Starmer made a dreary but gaff- free speech which was hailed because contrary to expectations the wheels remained on the Labour bus. Then Farage struck like a Cobra...
    Politics would be so much easier without opposition politicians criticising. Nobly, Labour never did that when they were in opposition :smile:
    No upset was taken or intended! You seemed slightly miffed that an opposition party leader was criticising the government.
    But only slightly. Hence the smiley. Because I know Labour are not your party anyway (I think your first choice is LD?)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,818

    Evening all
    Telegraph has a piece on analysis of local elections results since May.
    National equivalent shares are Ref 29 LD 18 Con 18 Lab 16 Green 9 with seats projected at Ref just short of majority 311, Lab 107, LD 84, Con 63
    Actual shares before adjusting for NEV are Ref 31 LD 18 Con 17 Lab 17 Green 9

    Local elections in line with national polling but with a 4 point swing Lab to LD.........

    So again if Reform get a majority on just 29% it will be as their opposition is divided, if anti Farage voters vote tactically for whichever party is the non Reform incumbent in a seat or ward they can certainly prevent a Reform majority
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,641
    "I will no longer use my title" - Prince Andrew

    Shouldn't that be Mr Andrew Windsor?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,818
    edited October 17

    Article on Macron's record unpopularity.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/17/broken-promises-and-political-crises-how-emmanuel-macron-fell-from-french-favour

    His predecessor, Hollande, was so unpopular that he didn't even try to run for re-election. And his predecessor, Sarkozy, is shortly going to jail.

    Maybe France is simply ungovernable? Or is it that people's expectations there, here, and most places in the democratic world, are now so unrealistic that the slide to populism/authoritarianism is unavoidable? We (UK & France & USA) avoided it in the 30's. Maybe not so lucky this time?

    Macron's centrist block still has a majority in the French Parliament with support from the centre right Les Republicains and centre left Socialists. So far left and nationalist hard right can be kept from power but it does require the centrist parties to work together, as in Germany too for example.

    Macron won't be running for re election anyway, his former PM Philippe is the likely centrist successor candidate who again will need to beat Le Pen with centrist and leftwing votes in the runoff as Macron did, twice
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,631
    Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    Maccabi Tel Aviv have notorious Ultras spoiling for trouble.

    If they want to be at the game then they should be bussed directly from the airport and directly home again, not to parade and smash up the city centre.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,278

    Ugh, change the law.

    Prince Andrew has been forced to relinquish all his titles including the Duke of York and Knight of the Garter after his friendship with the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein threatened to overshadow the reign of his brother, King Charles.

    He will remain known as Prince Andrew, in accordance with a law first set down by George V in 1917 which stipulates that a son of a monarch can be called a prince.

    The artist formerly known as...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,747
    HYUFD said:

    Evening all
    Telegraph has a piece on analysis of local elections results since May.
    National equivalent shares are Ref 29 LD 18 Con 18 Lab 16 Green 9 with seats projected at Ref just short of majority 311, Lab 107, LD 84, Con 63
    Actual shares before adjusting for NEV are Ref 31 LD 18 Con 17 Lab 17 Green 9

    Local elections in line with national polling but with a 4 point swing Lab to LD.........

    So again if Reform get a majority on just 29% it will be as their opposition is divided, if anti Farage voters vote tactically for whichever party is the non Reform incumbent in a seat or ward they can certainly prevent a Reform majority
    Any reasonably well accepted tactical voting effort will deeply hinder Reform id think because of their start from effective scratch and not knowing where their absolute bankers are versus what needs working harder
  • eekeek Posts: 31,529
    edited October 17

    Ugh, change the law.

    Prince Andrew has been forced to relinquish all his titles including the Duke of York and Knight of the Garter after his friendship with the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein threatened to overshadow the reign of his brother, King Charles.

    He will remain known as Prince Andrew, in accordance with a law first set down by George V in 1917 which stipulates that a son of a monarch can be called a prince.

    The artist formerly known as...
    The sex addict formerly known as (I think that covers both of them)...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,641

    Evening all
    Telegraph has a piece on analysis of local elections results since May.
    National equivalent shares are Ref 29 LD 18 Con 18 Lab 16 Green 9 with seats projected at Ref just short of majority 311, Lab 107, LD 84, Con 63
    Actual shares before adjusting for NEV are Ref 31 LD 18 Con 17 Lab 17 Green 9

    Local elections in line with national polling but with a 4 point swing Lab to LD.........

    The LibDems always do better in locals.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,238

    "I will no longer use my title" - Prince Andrew

    Shouldn't that be Mr Andrew Windsor?

    The Prince Andrew, technically. I remember newsreaders stumbling over that when Philip died.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,631

    Your Party website is up, with a host of tentative policies and rules - still quite generic but moving forward (founding conference is in 6 weeks):

    https://www.yourparty.uk/about/

    I remain interested but non-committal until after the conference. It's taken the opposite approach from Reform, which had Farage cheerily sketching policies off the cuff and modifying them as he went along - this one is determinedly member-led and consequently slow to lay down detailed policies. There are a host of regional conferences before the national one building up. We'll see...

    Not tempted by Polanski's Green Party? He smashed it out of the park on #BBCQT last week, and this sort of Social Media presence is just what the country needs:

    https://bsky.app/profile/zackpolanski.bsky.social/post/3m3dag3xh2s2o
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,210

    Nigelb said:

    .

    tlg86 said:

    Number 10 has asked West Midlands to set out what extra resource they need to police the game.

    The IDF?
    What the Luftwaffe did to Birmingham is not dissimilar to what the IDF did to Gaza.

    Let's hope the Gazans have better luck with their town planners
    Had the Luftwaffe possessed that capability, we'd likely have lost the war.
    Birmingham's former Debenhams building suggests we might have lost the war. We wouldn't have done that to ourselves, would we?
    It's the peace that we lost.
    (Relatively.)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,345
    Foxy said:

    Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    Maccabi Tel Aviv have notorious Ultras spoiling for trouble.

    If they want to be at the game then they should be bussed directly from the airport and directly home again, not to parade and smash up the city centre.
    An international version of the bubble employed at Southampton v Portsmouth matches is probably where this ends up.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,087
    Foxy said:

    Your Party website is up, with a host of tentative policies and rules - still quite generic but moving forward (founding conference is in 6 weeks):

    https://www.yourparty.uk/about/

    I remain interested but non-committal until after the conference. It's taken the opposite approach from Reform, which had Farage cheerily sketching policies off the cuff and modifying them as he went along - this one is determinedly member-led and consequently slow to lay down detailed policies. There are a host of regional conferences before the national one building up. We'll see...

    Not tempted by Polanski's Green Party? He smashed it out of the park on #BBCQT last week, and this sort of Social Media presence is just what the country needs:

    https://bsky.app/profile/zackpolanski.bsky.social/post/3m3dag3xh2s2o
    The idea that the Greens 'smashed it out of the park' is simply ludicrous. I'll now have to watch the QT episode, but really!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,641

    tlg86 said:

    Number 10 has asked West Midlands to set out what extra resource they need to police the game.

    The IDF?
    The Tel Aviv fans are the IDF.

    Some of the anti-Semites will be in for a surprise if the police don't keep them away from the fans.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,694

    Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    If the question had been phrased "Police have told Jews to stay away from Birmingham because they don't want to protect them from anti-Semiites. Do you approve?" the result may have been different.
    Of course. But that's steering not asking.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,631
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    Maccabi Tel Aviv have notorious Ultras spoiling for trouble.

    If they want to be at the game then they should be bussed directly from the airport and directly home again, not to parade and smash up the city centre.
    An international version of the bubble employed at Southampton v Portsmouth matches is probably where this ends up.
    I only get to a few away games a season, and tend to pick the local ones as I dont want to occupy the whole day so have been to Aston Villa, Birmingham City, Coventry City and Wolverhampton Wanderers. Of these the only one where heavy policing was needed was vs Coventry, and I was quite happy to be marched back to our busses under police escort to get home.

    At Leicester home games generally its a positive atmosphere but there are some away sides that the police prefer to escort to the trains and busses.

    Isn't this the same with Arsenal at more heated games?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,549
    Woo-hoo! I've had a letter from the IRS and have become able to pay the US govt tax! Aren't I lucky?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,252

    "I will no longer use my title" - Prince Andrew

    Shouldn't that be Mr Andrew Windsor?

    Apparently he keeps Prince. Birthright or something.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,694

    Ugh, change the law.

    Prince Andrew has been forced to relinquish all his titles including the Duke of York and Knight of the Garter after his friendship with the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein threatened to overshadow the reign of his brother, King Charles.

    He will remain known as Prince Andrew, in accordance with a law first set down by George V in 1917 which stipulates that a son of a monarch can be called a prince.

    Still, he's basically just Andy now.
    Perhaps he can go and live with Sarah in Paris?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,834
    Who's coming to support Maccabi Tel Aviv at Villa Park on November 6th???

    https://x.com/trobinsonnewera/status/1979240504299511912?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,631

    tlg86 said:

    Number 10 has asked West Midlands to set out what extra resource they need to police the game.

    The IDF?
    The Tel Aviv fans are the IDF.

    Some of the anti-Semites will be in for a surprise if the police don't keep them away from the fans.
    IDF maybe, but without weapons, tanks and airpower is a very different situation to obliterating Gaza.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,760
    @

    Ugh, change the law.

    Prince Andrew has been forced to relinquish all his titles including the Duke of York and Knight of the Garter after his friendship with the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein threatened to overshadow the reign of his brother, King Charles.

    He will remain known as Prince Andrew, in accordance with a law first set down by George V in 1917 which stipulates that a son of a monarch can be called a prince.

    His title should be Pervert Slug.
  • tlg86 said:

    Number 10 has asked West Midlands to set out what extra resource they need to police the game.

    The IDF?
    The Tel Aviv fans are the IDF.

    Some of the anti-Semites will be in for a surprise if the police don't keep them away from the fans.
    Sounds like all we need to provide is popcorn for the onlookers.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,747

    Evening all
    Telegraph has a piece on analysis of local elections results since May.
    National equivalent shares are Ref 29 LD 18 Con 18 Lab 16 Green 9 with seats projected at Ref just short of majority 311, Lab 107, LD 84, Con 63
    Actual shares before adjusting for NEV are Ref 31 LD 18 Con 17 Lab 17 Green 9

    Local elections in line with national polling but with a 4 point swing Lab to LD.........

    The LibDems always do better in locals.
    That was my thought too. The polling appears to be fairly reflective of current real voting trends.
    If Reform are turning out now whilst Lab/Con sit at home in a bad mood and there arent many reluctant Reformers waiting for a GE then they probably fall well short of majority.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,103
    Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    Very sensible people the British. Unlike the very online right populating PB these days.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,694
    isam said:

    Who's coming to support Maccabi Tel Aviv at Villa Park on November 6th???

    https://x.com/trobinsonnewera/status/1979240504299511912?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Back to his roots. Football violence.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,345
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    Maccabi Tel Aviv have notorious Ultras spoiling for trouble.

    If they want to be at the game then they should be bussed directly from the airport and directly home again, not to parade and smash up the city centre.
    An international version of the bubble employed at Southampton v Portsmouth matches is probably where this ends up.
    I only get to a few away games a season, and tend to pick the local ones as I dont want to occupy the whole day so have been to Aston Villa, Birmingham City, Coventry City and Wolverhampton Wanderers. Of these the only one where heavy policing was needed was vs Coventry, and I was quite happy to be marched back to our busses under police escort to get home.

    At Leicester home games generally its a positive atmosphere but there are some away sides that the police prefer to escort to the trains and busses.

    Isn't this the same with Arsenal at more heated games?
    Only once have I experienced a police escort after a game in this country. September 2015, League Cup tie at Spurs. And what an utterly stupid decision that was. We got kettled out on to the High Road only for Spurs fans to burst through a side gate from the back garden of a pub. Of course, they were massively outnumbered so ran back inside.

    In Europe, well. An hour lock in is not unusual. Got tear gassed by the old bill on the Paris Metro in May. Delightful.
  • Barnesian said:


    Here is what the public think. It looks as if Starmer is out of step with public opinion, and so is a lot of PB.

    If the question had been phrased "Police have told Jews to stay away from Birmingham because they don't want to protect them from anti-Semiites. Do you approve?" the result may have been different.
    Worse, it may not have been.
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