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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Nighthawks is now open

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited April 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Nighthawks is now open

If you’re wanting some Happy Mondays, why not relax and spend the night on PB Nighthawks.

Read the full story here


Comments

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Er, hi. What century am I in?
  • SeanT said:

    Hello!

    I hope you appreciate link 13.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Is this another Vanilla foul up or am I just the first poster
  • Is this another Vanilla foul up or am I just the first poster

    You were first, but Vanilla is being silly beggers today.

    It's like a time machine.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    Test
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    It'd be funny if Man U miss out on the Europa League :P
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    GIN1138 said:

    FPT:

    For Robert:

    If we're talking about the same javascript pop-up/redirect I think it mainly comes from Ad's? But it's hard to believe Google/Adsense would allow it through their network and Vanilla does seem to be playing up generally with comments tonight so perhaps it has come from Vanilla?

    David L: Assuming we're talking about the same javascript pop-up/redirect hijack I found I had TWO suspicious files in my downloads folder. Although removing them does help I found it was only by re-installing the latest version of Javascript that the issue resolved 100% - Before I did that I still got the occasional pop/redirect.

    That was back in February, BTW.

    No idea where this malware came from (I've got a suspicion it could have been through AOL's email service) but doing a Google search showed that MANY websites were being infected and thus a lot of the users of those website's were being infected.

    I see this post was made at 9.17 and then edited at 8.44. No wonder you can deal with malware!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited April 2014
    FPT:

    For Robert:

    If we're talking about the same javascript pop-up/redirect I think it mainly comes from Ad's? But it's hard to believe Google/Adsense would allow it through their network and Vanilla does seem to be playing up generally with comments tonight so perhaps it has come from Vanilla?

    David L: Assuming we're talking about the same javascript pop-up/redirect hijack I found I had TWO suspicious files in my downloads folder. Although removing them does help I found it was only by re-installing the latest version of Javascript that the issue resolved 100% - Before I did that I still got the occasional pop/redirect.

    That was back in February, BTW.

    No idea where this malware came from (I've got a suspicion it could have been through AOL's email service) but doing a Google search showed that MANY websites were being infected and thus a lot of the users of those website's were being infected.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Re 20. 40 years??? God I feel old.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    So I'm glad we're agreed that the whole 'the committee reduced her repayment without the commissioners agreement" gig is incorrect (If that article is true). That claim never really made sense given the Labour members on that committee.

    I accept that as true, unless strong evidence otherwise comes up.

    1) People's financial records get in a mess. For instance, Blair was PM and his expenses records got shredded. I look forward to all MPs having to show all their historic records to prove they didn't do anything wrong. Many will be incomplete.

    I'm sure people's records do get in a mess. However, someone that claimed 99.9% of what she could have possibly done doesn't sound like someone who was in a mess with finances. It sounds like someone who knew exactly what they were doing.

    As for Blair and his expense records, you seriously believe that was on the level?

    2) It can be argued that she was trying (justifiably) to argue her case with the inquiry rather than undermine it - would you rather she couldn't defend herself? She did this rather over-robustly, and apologised for it. After all, she was cleared of the original allegation made about her, and this was an extension to the original claim.

    If she's done nothing wrong then she should have happily co-operated with the inquiry. While she has every right to defend herself if she's guilty, and the lack of evidence means the case could not be proven, then she shouldn't have been fined any more, but she certainly is of the moral probity that we should require to be a minister. If you can't even co-operate with the rule-judging authorities then you should not be in charge of making rules for the nation.

    3) That transcript and recording can be taken either way. How would you feel if your father was doorstepped by one of the lovely people in the press?

    Journalists are quite entitled to ring a doorbell once and ask some questions. But that's just distracting from the main point here. It was very obviously a push by her office to use her position on the Leveson committee to wield extra authority. That's outrageous and she should resign for that, regardless of the expenses.

    And that's before we find out what happens with the tax situation.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited April 2014
    David L, one other tip, check your programme's in control panel.

    I found I had some interesting stuff I didn't know about like SweetIM toolbar's and something called Price Gong. From my Google Search I found there is a connection to the company that installs these seemingly harmless programmes which are actually back-door spyware's and the company that I eventually traced the javascript malware/redirect/pop-up back to and I think these nasty malware infections can be installed on your PC through things like SweetIM.

    If you've got anything that looks strange or unwanted in your programmes, uninstall.

    Or install Malwarebytes and that'll do it all for you.

    Good luck.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    SeanT said:

    Thanks to those pb-ers who recommended Rory Stewart's docu on Britain/Rome/Scotland (now on iPlayer in toto).

    It is very good. It is amazing how the map of Britain still follows the Roman definition: rich, urbane, thriving Britannia Superior - midlands and southern England - grim, martial, subservient but still faintly civilised Britannia Inferior - the English north - and then the Highland and Borders - i.e. wild and woolly non-Roman Scotland, barbarian, insurgent, poorer but free.

    The Emperor Hadrian would recognise the indyref campaign and nod, wisely.

    Was there a definition of what constitutes a Londoner!
    The mockneys on here are a priceless resource. Their effete bluster is all too revealing.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    The election strategy for the Conservatives in 2015 is very simple. At christmas this card just needs to be mass mailed to everyone in the country:

    With the message inside. Ed Miliband will be for 5 years not just for christmas if you vote Labour in May. Make the sensible choice, vote conservative.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bbgkf9VIMAAl3l h.jpg <- This picture on the front.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Twitter
    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 32s
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by three points: CON 33%, LAB 36%, LD 10%, UKIP 14%
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    Tonights YouGiv:

    Broken, sleazy, corrupt, expenses fiddling Tories on the slide?
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    SeanT said:

    Thanks to those pb-ers who recommended Rory Stewart's docu on Britain/Rome/Scotland (now on iPlayer in toto).

    It is very good. It is amazing how the map of Britain still follows the Roman definition: rich, urbane, thriving Britannia Superior - midlands and southern England - grim, martial, subservient but still faintly civilised Britannia Inferior - the English north - and then the Highland and Borders - i.e. wild and woolly non-Roman Scotland, barbarian, insurgent, poorer but free.

    The Emperor Hadrian would recognise the indyref campaign and nod, wisely.

    Was there a definition of what constitutes a Londoner!
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Gertcha! Mashed potatoes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR_2Ro5lHrY

    *chortle*
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    It made a pleasant change from arguing about Scottish currency union.



    SeanT said:

    Thanks to those pb-ers who recommended Rory Stewart's docu on Britain/Rome/Scotland (now on iPlayer in toto).

    It is very good. It is amazing how the map of Britain still follows the Roman definition: rich, urbane, thriving Britannia Superior - midlands and southern England - grim, martial, subservient but still faintly civilised Britannia Inferior - the English north - and then the Highland and Borders - i.e. wild and woolly non-Roman Scotland, barbarian, insurgent, poorer but free.

    The Emperor Hadrian would recognise the indyref campaign and nod, wisely.

    Was there a definition of what constitutes a Londoner!
  • Do I know dick all about football or what...

    COYS
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Been away for a short while and saw some posts from @malcolmg‌. They were moderate, cautious, on-the-one-hand type of comments.

    Has Vanilla been up the spout at all today?
  • Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 3s

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by three points: CON 33%, LAB 36%, LD 10%, UKIP 14%
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    TOPPING said:

    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 3s

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by three points: CON 33%, LAB 36%, LD 10%, UKIP 14%

    Other people on here are far better at the technicals than me but CON on 33% and the kippers on 14%, and Lab not on 43% surely leaves a whole lot of % to come back to the CONs from that direction?
    UKIP 40% higher than the Lib Dems... it will be outrageous if they don't get a debate place on those numbers.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,709
    Nice to see Nick Cohen, formerly of these parts, agree with us wiser heads on here about Labour's reaction to Bingo-gate:

    "A few weeks ago the middle-class left in Britain hugged itself with delight when the Conservative Party issued an advert which announced that it was ‘Cutting the Bingo Tax & Beer Duty to help hardworking people do more of the things they enjoy. Once political tacticians would have said it was mad for an opposition to repeat incessantly that a government was cutting tax. But the British left republished the ad thousands of times. It thought the right had damned itself by saying it wanted to help to help ‘hardworking people do more of the things they enjoy’. You see the Conservatives had said ‘they’ rather than ‘we’, and to the left’s mind that slip of a pronoun revealed a whole worldview. Conservatives were patronising the working class. And by saying ‘they enjoy’ Tories revealed that they were not working class themselves – as if anyone had ever thought Conservative leaders were."

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/nick-cohen/2014/04/you-sexistracistliberalelitist-bastard-how-dare-you/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    Now seem to have rectified it
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376

    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 3s

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by three points: CON 33%, LAB 36%, LD 10%, UKIP 14%

    Everyone looking about as popular as a cup of sick..
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    It made a pleasant change from arguing about Scottish currency union.





    SeanT said:

    Thanks to those pb-ers who recommended Rory Stewart's docu on Britain/Rome/Scotland (now on iPlayer in toto).

    It is very good. It is amazing how the map of Britain still follows the Roman definition: rich, urbane, thriving Britannia Superior - midlands and southern England - grim, martial, subservient but still faintly civilised Britannia Inferior - the English north - and then the Highland and Borders - i.e. wild and woolly non-Roman Scotland, barbarian, insurgent, poorer but free.

    The Emperor Hadrian would recognise the indyref campaign and nod, wisely.

    Was there a definition of what constitutes a Londoner!
    It made a change certainly, not to sure about the pleasant bit. Though there were some amusing posts in it all. Personally, I am still amused by Mr. Dancer's idea that Constantine the Great was a Yorkshireman. I have this vision of this chap in a flat cap, a brown suit (a ferret sticking its head out of a jacket pocket) and clogs with a whippet on a lead in one hand and a mucky-fat sandwich in the other fronting up at the court in Byzantium to take over and make Christianity the dominant religion for the next two millennia. "Aye, 'appen".
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    Mmm - interesting - YouGov and Populus both have the lead today at 3 - I thought the Budget bounce had faded and there was also the Miller effect.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,709
    And, of course, Brenton later did that drama for the BBC 'Dead Head', which, more or less, suggested that Prince Andrew was a psychopathic murderer of women under the protection of the Thatcher government.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046

    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 3s

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by three points: CON 33%, LAB 36%, LD 10%, UKIP 14%

    Other people on here are far better at the technicals than me but CON on 33% and the kippers on 14%, and Lab not on 43% surely leaves a whole lot of % to come back to the CONs from that direction?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited April 2014
    That sounds like a classic British Play: http://100britplays100days.wordpress.com/2012/06/21/howard-brentons-the-romans-in-britain/

    I remember the furore in March 1982 very well, but the play itself marked a nadir of British self hate. This was when Michael Foot was ahead in the polls, and Britain had sunk so low that even the Argentinians though we were there for the taking.

    A few weeks later it all turned around...
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Thanks to those pb-ers who recommended Rory Stewart's docu on Britain/Rome/Scotland (now on iPlayer in toto).

    It is very good. It is amazing how the map of Britain still follows the Roman definition: rich, urbane, thriving Britannia Superior - midlands and southern England - grim, martial, subservient but still faintly civilised Britannia Inferior - the English north - and then the Highland and Borders - i.e. wild and woolly non-Roman Scotland, barbarian, insurgent, poorer but free.

    The Emperor Hadrian would recognise the indyref campaign and nod, wisely.

    Was there a definition of what constitutes a Londoner!
    Hah. We are all Romans now, as the Romans said (while raping your wife and burning your hovel).
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Interesting Ipsos MORI poll:

    http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3365/UK-becoming-more-local-and-global.aspx

    "There is a weaker sense of connection to people across the country than ten years ago – 16% say they feel more of a connection to people in their country than 10 years ago compared with 25% who feel less of a connection. Over half (54%) say they feel no differently. "

    Sounds like New Labour went a long way to achieving its goal of wrecking British identity.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited April 2014
    Metro front page is perhaps the most epic fail in a long long time...

    V v poor.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:

    Oh god. News at Ten is leading on "tributes" to Peaches Geldof.

    Really? Tributes??? For appearing slightly on TV?

    A delicate, damaged, pretty young woman, and very young mother, has died, perhaps in a way related to her own mildly celebrated mother's near-suicide, though we cannot be sure.

    But tributes? And this is the main news AT TEN?

    The BBC is the Daily Mail, but we are forced to buy it. Ridic.

    I'm a fairly informed individual, but other than being her father's daughter, I know nothing about her. Why are people so upset?

    I find our modern obsession with not just celebrity, but even near celebrity, quite bizarre.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I agree, and the number considering other EU countries as having common values with us is not far off those glophone countries. There was not much in it over age or other demographics.

    We are all Europeans now...

    Socrates said:

    Interesting Ipsos MORI poll:

    http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3365/UK-becoming-more-local-and-global.aspx

    "There is a weaker sense of connection to people across the country than ten years ago – 16% say they feel more of a connection to people in their country than 10 years ago compared with 25% who feel less of a connection. Over half (54%) say they feel no differently. "

    Sounds like New Labour went a long way to achieving its goal of wrecking British identity.

    Interesting, as you say, though I'd think it was a global trend unrelated to government to feel both more local and more international. Intriguing that only 20% attach particular importance to British identity and only 6% to ethnic identity.

  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    SeanT said:

    Thanks to those pb-ers who recommended Rory Stewart's docu on Britain/Rome/Scotland (now on iPlayer in toto).

    It is very good. It is amazing how the map of Britain still follows the Roman definition: rich, urbane, thriving Britannia Superior - the midlands and southern England - grim, martial, subservient but still faintly civilised Britannia Inferior - the English north - and then the Highlands and Borders - i.e. wild and woolly non-Roman Scotland, barbarian, insurgent, poorer but free.

    The Emperor Hadrian would recognise the indyref campaign and nod, wisely.

    Probably relates to geography and climate. The south nearer the markets of Europe and the south having more fertile lands, so therefore more prosperous.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:

    Oh god. News at Ten is leading on "tributes" to Peaches Geldof.

    Really? Tributes??? For appearing slightly on TV?

    A delicate, damaged, pretty young woman, and very young mother, has died, perhaps in a way related to her own mildly celebrated mother's near-suicide, though we cannot be sure.

    But tributes? And this is the main news AT TEN?

    The BBC is the Daily Mail, but we are forced to buy it. Ridic.

    The licence fee is obviously past its time, but then the BBC sets the news discussion agenda, so they protect themselves. If they're as great as everyone keeps on saying, I'm sure they can compete without a compulsory subscription model. We should privatise them, and let them apply for grants for public interest broadcasting on a programme by programme basis.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Oh god. News at Ten is leading on "tributes" to Peaches Geldof.

    Really? Tributes??? For appearing slightly on TV?

    A delicate, damaged, pretty young woman, and very young mother, has died, perhaps in a way related to her own mildly celebrated mother's near-suicide, though we cannot be sure.

    But tributes? And this is the main news AT TEN?

    The BBC is the Daily Mail, but we are forced to buy it. Ridic.

    The licence fee is obviously past its time, but then the BBC sets the news discussion agenda, so they protect themselves. If they're as great as everyone keeps on saying, I'm sure they can compete without a compulsory subscription model. We should privatise them, and let them apply for grants for public interest broadcasting on a programme by programme basis.
    I agree, especially now that the beeb has lost the contract to televise The Masters.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Socrates said:

    Interesting Ipsos MORI poll:

    http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3365/UK-becoming-more-local-and-global.aspx

    "There is a weaker sense of connection to people across the country than ten years ago – 16% say they feel more of a connection to people in their country than 10 years ago compared with 25% who feel less of a connection. Over half (54%) say they feel no differently. "

    Sounds like New Labour went a long way to achieving its goal of wrecking British identity.

    Interesting, as you say, though I'd think it was a global trend unrelated to government to feel both more local and more international. Intriguing that only 20% attach particular importance to British identity and only 6% to ethnic identity.

  • Squirrel!

    Mike Smithson‏@MSmithsonPB·12 mins
    The LAB YouGov 36% share in tonight's poll equals the lowest of the year. UKIP's 14% equals highest of the year
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    edited April 2014
    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Oh god. News at Ten is leading on "tributes" to Peaches Geldof.

    Really? Tributes??? For appearing slightly on TV?

    A delicate, damaged, pretty young woman, and very young mother, has died, perhaps in a way related to her own mildly celebrated mother's near-suicide, though we cannot be sure.

    But tributes? And this is the main news AT TEN?

    The BBC is the Daily Mail, but we are forced to buy it. Ridic.

    The licence fee is obviously past its time, but then the BBC sets the news discussion agenda, so they protect themselves. If they're as great as everyone keeps on saying, I'm sure they can compete without a compulsory subscription model. We should privatise them, and let them apply for grants for public interest broadcasting on a programme by programme basis.
    .
    I posted. a link to the other day to an article about the licence fee becoming a poll tax.universal charge on all households.
    FX: Googling... Ah, here's one:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/10746109/BBC-wants-you-to-pay-TV-licence-fee-even-if-you-dont-own-a-set-as-shows-go-on-iPlayer-for-longer.html

    That'll go down well.

    (Edit: sorry, I can see that's what you were referring to above).
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Squirrel!

    Mike Smithson‏@MSmithsonPB·12 mins
    The LAB YouGov 36% share in tonight's poll equals the lowest of the year. UKIP's 14% equals highest of the year

    No problem, 35% target isn't breached, UKIP take Tory votes only.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    TOPPING said:

    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 3s

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by three points: CON 33%, LAB 36%, LD 10%, UKIP 14%

    Other people on here are far better at the technicals than me but CON on 33% and the kippers on 14%, and Lab not on 43% surely leaves a whole lot of % to come back to the CONs from that direction?
    Yes, if you assume that the Kippers are Tories on holiday. Various polls suggest that only around a tenth (net) are - most don't otherwise like any of us, sadly. You can reasonably assume that 1.5% will come back - more, and you're arguing with the polls. But obviously 3% is a small lead anyway, but it's unwise to base much on one day, as we've seen over the last couple of weeks. Look at it again on Wednesday.

  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915

    Thought this from Today's Herald in Scotland might be interesting, especially the proportion of Labour and SNP MSPs who went to private schools (public schools in England)


    "A nation's parliament should reflect the people it represents.

    There should be as many women as men in the chamber, and the balance of ethnic, religious, social and economic backgrounds should be broadly similar to the country at large. Every progressive, modern parliament should aim to meet this standard.


    Sadly, as figures published in The Herald today demonstrate, Scotland's parliament is failing to pass the test in one critical respect: education. A breakdown of the educational records of MSPs shows that 17% were educated in independent schools compared to only 4% of the population at large. It is a striking difference, particularly as educational background is one of the most important drivers of social mobility.

    The figures vary for each of the parties. Conservatives are much more likely to be independently educated, although the proportions are relatively high too for the Labour Party, with 13% of its MSPs having gone to a private school - almost 10% higher than the rate for the population generally. The figure in the SNP is another 2% higher than that at 15% and for Liberal Democrats it is zero, although the party only has five MSPs."

    I don't know now, but a few years back when I lived there, High schools in Glasgow appeared universally terrible. Apart from Jordanhill, where you needed to put your name on a list before birth as well as owning a posh house to have a chance of getting in. As it was, we moved, so we didn't have to face the dilemma, but I think I would have considered private education if I was still there, although my principles would have had to go out the window.
    I am old enough to have been at school in Glasgow when there were more private schools than in Edinburgh. In 1973 the Labour Party out of sheer class-ridden spite withdrew all the funding Glasgow Corporation gave to many of these private schools including mine and many closed down. That funding ensured our schools drew in only the brightest including many from the deprived housing estates but Labour didn't like them getting a chance. Cllr Vince Cable was a member of Glasgow Corporation's Labour Group at that time!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2014
    I thought we were getting a new SeanT blogpost tonight...

    It hasn't appeared yet:

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/author/seanthomas/
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Thought this from Today's Herald in Scotland might be interesting, especially the proportion of Labour and SNP MSPs who went to private schools (public schools in England)


    "A nation's parliament should reflect the people it represents.

    There should be as many women as men in the chamber, and the balance of ethnic, religious, social and economic backgrounds should be broadly similar to the country at large. Every progressive, modern parliament should aim to meet this standard.


    Sadly, as figures published in The Herald today demonstrate, Scotland's parliament is failing to pass the test in one critical respect: education. A breakdown of the educational records of MSPs shows that 17% were educated in independent schools compared to only 4% of the population at large. It is a striking difference, particularly as educational background is one of the most important drivers of social mobility.

    The figures vary for each of the parties. Conservatives are much more likely to be independently educated, although the proportions are relatively high too for the Labour Party, with 13% of its MSPs having gone to a private school - almost 10% higher than the rate for the population generally. The figure in the SNP is another 2% higher than that at 15% and for Liberal Democrats it is zero, although the party only has five MSPs."
  • Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 2m

    Generally the degree to which someone regards a poll as "shite" is in direct proportion to their dislike of the findings
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    On this virus, my email now seems to have gone haywire, can we get it looked at urgently
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Normally I get annoyed at tabloid journalism on the BBC but I actually didn't mind them leading with the sad news about Peaches Geldof tonight.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    Interesting Ipsos MORI poll:

    http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3365/UK-becoming-more-local-and-global.aspx

    "There is a weaker sense of connection to people across the country than ten years ago – 16% say they feel more of a connection to people in their country than 10 years ago compared with 25% who feel less of a connection. Over half (54%) say they feel no differently. "

    Sounds like New Labour went a long way to achieving its goal of wrecking British identity.

    Interesting, as you say, though I'd think it was a global trend unrelated to government to feel both more local and more international. Intriguing that only 20% attach particular importance to British identity and only 6% to ethnic identity.

    Is it a global trend? I feel I've noticed a definite weakening of British identity over my lifetime. I haven't seen anything similar in the US.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Oh god. News at Ten is leading on "tributes" to Peaches Geldof.

    Really? Tributes??? For appearing slightly on TV?

    A delicate, damaged, pretty young woman, and very young mother, has died, perhaps in a way related to her own mildly celebrated mother's near-suicide, though we cannot be sure.

    But tributes? And this is the main news AT TEN?

    The BBC is the Daily Mail, but we are forced to buy it. Ridic.

    The licence fee is obviously past its time, but then the BBC sets the news discussion agenda, so they protect themselves. If they're as great as everyone keeps on saying, I'm sure they can compete without a compulsory subscription model. We should privatise them, and let them apply for grants for public interest broadcasting on a programme by programme basis.
    The BBC don't seem to understand. If I am forced to pay for the BBC, I want its news to be like the BBC World Service, endless global violence and politics, delivered in a deliciously understated way, but with vivid, award-winning footage (of riots, death camps etc). i.e. PROPER NEWS.

    If I want titillating but trivial celeb death TV news, and sometimes I do, then I will damn well go elsewhere, to channels that don't TAX me to provide it, and do it better anyway.

    The BBC has a chance to corner the market in proper news, yet they seem determined to destroy their own USP by turning into the Daily Mail on TV. Bizarre. It will be the death of them.
    I agree. They even, on occasion, come up with new cutting edge comedy, like the Office. This is the problem with bureaucracies though: you can't just give them a mission and let them get on with it, because after a while they just become bloated and focused on their own empire building. What you need to have is a clear system with incentives. That's why the grant system would work so well. If they make some fantastic news show that's clearly in the public interest, give them a grant for it. If it's the latest reality show then they don't. It could also set them up for competition with other broadcasters, to raise the bar for educational and innovative programming across the board.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    Sad news about Peaches, and it had to be on a Monday too, rather ironic considering Bob's main hit. Would agree it may have been a bit over the top leading the news, but the only other alternative was the even more celebrity focused dramatics of the Pistorius trial and Oscar's star performance of Shakespearean tragedy today
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    It was a year later, in 1983, that I moved to London. This must surely colour my view of the place. London was at its lowest point, and I saw over the next five years the Big Bang, Yuppies, Sloanes, Porsches, Filofaxes and all. I left after the 1989 bust.

    The current London based boom and hubris reminds me of the late eighties, when the Masters of the Universe fell from grace, back into the greyness of Major's London.




    SeanT said:

    That sounds like a classic British Play: http://100britplays100days.wordpress.com/2012/06/21/howard-brentons-the-romans-in-britain/

    I remember the furore in March 1982 very well, but the play itself marked a nadir of British self hate. This was when Michael Foot was ahead in the polls, and Britain had sunk so low that even the Argentinians though we were there for the taking.

    A few weeks later it all turned around...

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Thanks to those pb-ers who recommended Rory Stewart's docu on Britain/Rome/Scotland (now on iPlayer in toto).

    It is very good. It is amazing how the map of Britain still follows the Roman definition: rich, urbane, thriving Britannia Superior - midlands and southern England - grim, martial, subservient but still faintly civilised Britannia Inferior - the English north - and then the Highland and Borders - i.e. wild and woolly non-Roman Scotland, barbarian, insurgent, poorer but free.

    The Emperor Hadrian would recognise the indyref campaign and nod, wisely.

    Was there a definition of what constitutes a Londoner!
    Hah. We are all Romans now, as the Romans said (while raping your wife and burning your hovel).
    I remember the Falklands victory so distinctly. It was like Britishness reborn. I was a UCL student and we were all - left and right - celebrating the retaking of Port Stanley in a Fitzrovia pub, in a London that was still dressed in post-war dowdiness. We were so noisy the local CBS TV crew came in to interview us, live, on American news, as to why we were so happy.

    I explained, to camera, that we were hoping to go on to retake the American colonies.

    And yet it had nothing to do with any fatuous rebirth of imperialism. It was just the rebirth of British pride, after decades of socialist/ Macmillanesque decline (a rebirth that Blair and New Labour consciously traded upon). I honestly believe that for all our faults we have not looked back since. Things are NOT perfect, things are NOT great, but we are a stronger, better, happier, richer country since the awful dog days of the self hating 1970s.

    Scottish independence and Ed Miliband could, together or apart, derail this slow but certain renaissance.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    The death of Peaches Geldof is a tragedy for her husband, children and family. However up and down the country today several other young mothers will have died leaving young children, grieving relatives and their young children will not have the secure financial future which the 2 little Geldof children will have.
  • Edin_RokzEdin_Rokz Posts: 516
    DavidL said:

    GIN1138 said:

    FPT:

    For Robert:

    If we're talking about the same javascript pop-up/redirect I think it mainly comes from Ad's? But it's hard to believe Google/Adsense would allow it through their network and Vanilla does seem to be playing up generally with comments tonight so perhaps it has come from Vanilla?

    David L: Assuming we're talking about the same javascript pop-up/redirect hijack I found I had TWO suspicious files in my downloads folder. Although removing them does help I found it was only by re-installing the latest version of Javascript that the issue resolved 100% - Before I did that I still got the occasional pop/redirect.

    That was back in February, BTW.

    No idea where this malware came from (I've got a suspicion it could have been through AOL's email service) but doing a Google search showed that MANY websites were being infected and thus a lot of the users of those website's were being infected.

    I see this post was made at 9.17 and then edited at 8.44. No wonder you can deal with malware!
    GIN1138 said:

    FPT:

    For Robert:

    If we're talking about the same javascript pop-up/redirect I think it mainly comes from Ad's? But it's hard to believe Google/Adsense would allow it through their network and Vanilla does seem to be playing up generally with comments tonight so perhaps it has come from Vanilla?

    David L: Assuming we're talking about the same javascript pop-up/redirect hijack I found I had TWO suspicious files in my downloads folder. Although removing them does help I found it was only by re-installing the latest version of Javascript that the issue resolved 100% - Before I did that I still got the occasional pop/redirect.

    That was back in February, BTW.

    No idea where this malware came from (I've got a suspicion it could have been through AOL's email service) but doing a Google search showed that MANY websites were being infected and thus a lot of the users of those website's were being infected.


    Got an email a few weeks ago (and I can't find it at the moment , as per usual, but YouTube video showed what to look for and delete included) warning of extras somehow have been added to the files in WP. You need to go into cPanel and check the site files in public_html and check if any files have got a lot of extraordinary program garbage added. Unfortunately that means every file.

    Of course you will have been doing a weekly backup, just like wot I do O:-)

  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    Thought this from Today's Herald in Scotland might be interesting, especially the proportion of Labour and SNP MSPs who went to private schools (public schools in England)


    "A nation's parliament should reflect the people it represents.

    There should be as many women as men in the chamber, and the balance of ethnic, religious, social and economic backgrounds should be broadly similar to the country at large. Every progressive, modern parliament should aim to meet this standard.


    Sadly, as figures published in The Herald today demonstrate, Scotland's parliament is failing to pass the test in one critical respect: education. A breakdown of the educational records of MSPs shows that 17% were educated in independent schools compared to only 4% of the population at large. It is a striking difference, particularly as educational background is one of the most important drivers of social mobility.

    The figures vary for each of the parties. Conservatives are much more likely to be independently educated, although the proportions are relatively high too for the Labour Party, with 13% of its MSPs having gone to a private school - almost 10% higher than the rate for the population generally. The figure in the SNP is another 2% higher than that at 15% and for Liberal Democrats it is zero, although the party only has five MSPs."

    I don't know now, but a few years back when I lived there, High schools in Glasgow appeared universally terrible. Apart from Jordanhill, where you needed to put your name on a list before birth as well as owning a posh house to have a chance of getting in. As it was, we moved, so we didn't have to face the dilemma, but I think I would have considered private education if I was still there, although my principles would have had to go out the window.
  • Thought this from Today's Herald in Scotland might be interesting, especially the proportion of Labour and SNP MSPs who went to private schools (public schools in England)


    "A nation's parliament should reflect the people it represents.

    There should be as many women as men in the chamber, and the balance of ethnic, religious, social and economic backgrounds should be broadly similar to the country at large. Every progressive, modern parliament should aim to meet this standard.


    Sadly, as figures published in The Herald today demonstrate, Scotland's parliament is failing to pass the test in one critical respect: education. A breakdown of the educational records of MSPs shows that 17% were educated in independent schools compared to only 4% of the population at large. It is a striking difference, particularly as educational background is one of the most important drivers of social mobility.

    The figures vary for each of the parties. Conservatives are much more likely to be independently educated, although the proportions are relatively high too for the Labour Party, with 13% of its MSPs having gone to a private school - almost 10% higher than the rate for the population generally. The figure in the SNP is another 2% higher than that at 15% and for Liberal Democrats it is zero, although the party only has five MSPs."

    I suspect owner-occupiers and university graduates are even more over-represented than the privately educated, so exactly what stupid point is the Herald trying to make?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    SeanT said:

    We got a cab to the West End, f*cked off our tits, but I remember looking around and thinking: YES, this is happening HERE, NOW, the FORCE has returned, the CITY is reborn.

    And I was right. That was the moment. And London has not looked back, and now it claims, quite reasonably, though arguably, to be the capital of the world.

    It's difficult to remember but back in the 70s and 80s London was regarded as being decades behind Paris: which was then THE European City, with the glass pyramid, the Quai d'Orsay, the Pompidou Centre, et al.

    You don't even have to go back that far. Remember the Europhiles warning of doom if we didn't join the Euro? They were certain that London would be eclipsed by Frankfurt.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    This famous family have already suffered more than their fair share of tragedy, on top of that we see a young mother who will not see her very young boys grow up. Peaches and her sisters have all grew under intense media scrutiny from minute they were born. It would be incredible fitting if the UK media toned down their usual antics and left this family to grieve in private after tonight's initial coverage, and without the usual endless and at times scurrilous speculation we often see. But they won't sadly, instead they will bring up the tragic circumstances of Paula Yates death, and the family will have to go through this all over again while trying to deal with the very sudden loss of a young woman who first and foremost was a wife, mother, daughter and sister.
    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Oh god. News at Ten is leading on "tributes" to Peaches Geldof.

    Really? Tributes??? For appearing slightly on TV?

    A delicate, damaged, pretty young woman, and very young mother, has died, perhaps in a way related to her own mildly celebrated mother's near-suicide, though we cannot be sure.

    But tributes? And this is the main news AT TEN?

    The BBC is the Daily Mail, but we are forced to buy it. Ridic.

    I'm a fairly informed individual, but other than being her father's daughter, I know nothing about her. Why are people so upset?

    I find our modern obsession with not just celebrity, but even near celebrity, quite bizarre.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    edited April 2014

    ***** Betting Post *****

    Poll after month, month after month irrespective of how the other parties may be faring, the LibDems seem to be stuck solid on or around 10%.
    It seems inevitable that they are set to lose a significant proportion of their present clutch of MPs. Were they to retain 40 seats, this would doubtless to received with considerable relief, whereas were they to finish up with only 20 seats or fewer this would be seen as a disaster.
    The likelihood is surely that their tally will be somewhere between these two figures which if so appears to offer an interesting betting opportunity by combining the following two seats bands currently on offer from Ladbrokes in the proportions shown which would produce a winning return on the combined stakes of just better than evens:

    21-30 seats ....... 41.18% staked at 4/1
    31-40 seats ....... 58.82% staked at 5/2
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312


    I am old enough to have been at school in Glasgow when there were more private schools than in Edinburgh. In 1973 the Labour Party out of sheer class-ridden spite withdrew all the funding Glasgow Corporation gave to many of these private schools including mine and many closed down. That funding ensured our schools drew in only the brightest including many from the deprived housing estates but Labour didn't like them getting a chance. Cllr Vince Cable was a member of Glasgow Corporation's Labour Group at that time!
    Vince Cable opposed the opening of the two new VA Catholic Schools in Twickenham to serve the burgeoning Catholic population in the borough, despite there being no state Catholic secondary in the LB of Richmond-upon-Thames.

    PBers should note this when betting on the local election this year and the General Election next.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Grandiose said:

    SeanT said:

    Oh god. News at Ten is leading on "tributes" to Peaches Geldof.

    Really? Tributes??? For appearing slightly on TV?

    A delicate, damaged, pretty young woman, and very young mother, has died, perhaps in a way related to her own mildly celebrated mother's near-suicide, though we cannot be sure.

    But tributes? And this is the main news AT TEN?

    The BBC is the Daily Mail, but we are forced to buy it. Ridic.

    Rein in your outrage, Sean. It's not like Ms Geldof has been seen on a beach, accidentally exposed herself in public, been to the gym, or been featured in Hello!. It is not a circus. A woman known to millions and followed by thousands is dead. That is proper news.
    If Peaches Geldof deserves 'tributes', will they go overboard on Mickey Rooney?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I like watching films set in London from the late 70s/early 80s because there was a real grimy edginess about the city at that time. Movies like The Long Good Friday and The Dogs of War.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Autumn 1985:

    Some nice shots of London in the West End Girls video:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3j2NYZ8FKs
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    fitalass said:

    Vanilla still suffering gremlins it would seem, my latest post like all the others tonight has now suddenly appeared further down the thread, and with a time line about 40 mins earlier than the time I posted it.

    Same thing happened to my post - maybe they are now using artificial vanilla :-)
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2014
    Link 11:

    IMO the poll about localism and globalism is a good example of setting up a series of questions to get the results you want.

    If you wanted to get results saying people are becoming less interested in nationalism, the way to do it would be to give people three choices: localism, nationalism, globalism. Almost by definition the number of people saying they care about things from a national perspective is going to be lower than expected because if you give people three choices instead of two — localism vs nationalism, or nationalism vs globalism — the results are going to be more split.
  • marktheowlmarktheowl Posts: 169
    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Oh god. News at Ten is leading on "tributes" to Peaches Geldof.

    Really? Tributes??? For appearing slightly on TV?

    A delicate, damaged, pretty young woman, and very young mother, has died, perhaps in a way related to her own mildly celebrated mother's near-suicide, though we cannot be sure.

    But tributes? And this is the main news AT TEN?

    The BBC is the Daily Mail, but we are forced to buy it. Ridic.

    I'm a fairly informed individual, but other than being her father's daughter, I know nothing about her. Why are people so upset?

    I find our modern obsession with not just celebrity, but even near celebrity, quite bizarre.
    Nope you're right, she came to fame as a bit of a cross between an It Girl and a rock groupie around the time there was a bit of a 'scene' around the likes of Pete Doherty and a few British guitar bands, had a brief dalliance with television a few years later as a BBCThree 'voice of youth', who weren't so enamoured, seeing her as attempting to be a bit too trendy for the genuinely nothing-but-ITV2 celeb obsessed, and thought of as famous just because of her dad, not the brightest and not quite the intelligent arbiter of good taste she wanted to be by those wanting to be a bit more culturally savvy. A particular low point was an extended hour long interview with Fearne Cotton in which she came out as a Scientologist, which needless to say meant Charlie Brooker had an easy week looking for material (although most of his ire was directed at Cotton for her less than inquisitive interview technique).

    It's a strange one - I think that there's obviously the family history, the inevitable shock when someone so young dies, especially when she seemed to have laid off the vices that make an early demise more likely, starting a family etc. Also because for people of a certain age she's been a bit of a constant - buzzing away in the background, someone who it's very difficult to ignore, always in the media - a boon to lazy diarists, without ever being hugely famous. That coupled with a lot of media types tweeting their unbridled love, with no one other than obvious trolls saying anything to the contrary and understandable sympathy for her family given past traumas, has whipped the whole thing into a bit of a frenzy.

  • AndyJS said:

    I like watching films set in London from the late 70s/early 80s because there was a real grimy edginess about the city at that time. Movies like The Long Good Friday and The Dogs of War.

    In certain circles, though, it is sacrilegious to admit that life in London (or anywhere else in the UK for that matter) was crap before 1979.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    SeanT said:

    Oh god. News at Ten is leading on "tributes" to Peaches Geldof.

    Really? Tributes??? For appearing slightly on TV?

    A delicate, damaged, pretty young woman, and very young mother, has died, perhaps in a way related to her own mildly celebrated mother's near-suicide, though we cannot be sure.

    But tributes? And this is the main news AT TEN?

    The BBC is the Daily Mail, but we are forced to buy it. Ridic.

    Rein in your outrage, Sean. It's not like Ms Geldof has been seen on a beach, accidentally exposed herself in public, been to the gym, or been featured in Hello!. It is not a circus. A woman known to millions and followed by thousands is dead. That is proper news.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited April 2014
    Did you miss the Olympics, and namely the UK wide tour of the torch which drew in huge flag waving crowds everywhere? I don't think that the British identity has got weaker, just that the globe has got smaller over my lifetime as we all travel more.
    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Interesting Ipsos MORI poll:

    http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3365/UK-becoming-more-local-and-global.aspx

    "There is a weaker sense of connection to people across the country than ten years ago – 16% say they feel more of a connection to people in their country than 10 years ago compared with 25% who feel less of a connection. Over half (54%) say they feel no differently. "

    Sounds like New Labour went a long way to achieving its goal of wrecking British identity.

    Interesting, as you say, though I'd think it was a global trend unrelated to government to feel both more local and more international. Intriguing that only 20% attach particular importance to British identity and only 6% to ethnic identity.

    Is it a global trend? I feel I've noticed a definite weakening of British identity over my lifetime. I haven't seen anything similar in the US.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Vanilla still suffering gremlins it would seem, my latest post like all the others tonight has now suddenly appeared further down the thread, and with a time line about 40 mins earlier than the time I posted it.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    And my latest post has now appeared in the thread before my last one.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    AndyJS said:

    I like watching films set in London from the late 70s/early 80s because there was a real grimy edginess about the city at that time. Movies like The Long Good Friday and The Dogs of War.

    In certain circles, though, it is sacrilegious to admit that life in London (or anywhere else in the UK for that matter) was crap before 1979.
    I lived in London from 1969 to 1976, and yup - it was crap.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Labour slipping. The optimistic 37-40 is now rather 36-38. Tories beached for now on 32-34, as might be expected of a government a year out. A 35-34 Tory 'win' looks very doable from here with limited swing back and nurse clinging. Labour need to change the narrative, but that will be hard will Miliband at the helm. He's just not electable to high office.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    TOPPING said:

    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 3s

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by three points: CON 33%, LAB 36%, LD 10%, UKIP 14%

    Other people on here are far better at the technicals than me but CON on 33% and the kippers on 14%, and Lab not on 43% surely leaves a whole lot of % to come back to the CONs from that direction?
    Yes, if you assume that the Kippers are Tories on holiday. Various polls suggest that only around a tenth (net) are - most don't otherwise like any of us, sadly. You can reasonably assume that 1.5% will come back - more, and you're arguing with the polls. But obviously 3% is a small lead anyway, but it's unwise to base much on one day, as we've seen over the last couple of weeks. Look at it again on Wednesday.

    We're ignoring the 51% who said they didn't think a vote for UKIP would let Ed into number 10 and assuming they will continue to hold that view regardless of the polling and message from here to next May are we?
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    edited April 2014
    After the recent concern expressed on PB.com about the problems encountered with Vanilla, as a precaution I've run Malwarebytes on my laptop this evening and my what a difference!
    Everything's loading quicker and cleaner and in particular my internet is now opening in full screen mode, rather than my having to double click the top edge constantly to achieve this - a problem I've had to endure for yonks without having previously been able to find a solution.
    It's an ill wind alright.
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Ninoinoz said:


    I am old enough to have been at school in Glasgow when there were more private schools than in Edinburgh. In 1973 the Labour Party out of sheer class-ridden spite withdrew all the funding Glasgow Corporation gave to many of these private schools including mine and many closed down. That funding ensured our schools drew in only the brightest including many from the deprived housing estates but Labour didn't like them getting a chance. Cllr Vince Cable was a member of Glasgow Corporation's Labour Group at that time!
    Vince Cable opposed the opening of the two new VA Catholic Schools in Twickenham to serve the burgeoning Catholic population in the borough, despite there being no state Catholic secondary in the LB of Richmond-upon-Thames.

    PBers should note this when betting on the local election this year and the General Election next.
    That's interesting. I don't know about the long term history obviously. But at the time I was there (up to 2006) there didn't seem to be any chance in the state schools for kids to have a really positive experience (at high school. The primary seemed OK). But clearly Scottish state education is a kind of specialist area, and I don't profess to know that much about it. Only my anecdotal experience. Hopefully things are improving now.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Exactly 10 years after I got bog-standard broadband, the workmen have appeared at the end of the road to install fibre optic cables. Better late than never I suppose.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Since Vanilla is evidently specialising in time travel today, could we have a couple of posts from September 19th, pretty please?
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Post of the Day! :)

    Since Vanilla is evidently specialising in time travel today, could we have a couple of posts from September 19th, pretty please?

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited April 2014
    Unfortunately peaches was a heroin user , so now we will have To suffer Russell brand telling us that the non existent war against drugs has failed again... Yawn. These lefty liberals are so boring, and so dangerous
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited April 2014
    @isam I suggest you delete that post before the moderators have too!!



  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Number 10: A referendum on Europe would undermine our constitution (and yes, we do have a constitution)

    Yes, we do have a constitution, and yes we do have a written constitution, but I prefer Professor J.A.G. Griffith's formulation "The Constitution is what happens", according to which it is not "undermined" but developed, evolved, advanced, etc...
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    (OT) I have a question about the Harrying of the North which, among other things, was mentioned by Rory Stewart MP in his programme about the Middleland. It is often said that 100,000 people were killed, the source being Orderic Vitalis who wrote about it 50 years later.

    How would he know? They didn't have the resources of modern journalism or modern communications, so any accounting of the numbers killed would have been wildly speculative and subject of guesswork, rumour, propaganda and Chinese whispers. I don't see how it can be stated with any great certainty that it was 100,000 or 10,000 or 2,000 or whatever.

    So why is the figure of 100,000 (which seems suspiciously too big to me) so often quoted and repeated as if it's considered accurate?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Film review:

    "Let me begin by stating that I cannot recommend Under the Skin to audiences in search of a mainstream movie experience. This film, a cryptic adaptation of Michel Faber's novel, is all about mood and setting. It's as existential as a sci-fi/horror film can possibly be. It requires that the viewer slip into a meditative mood and remain there for more than 90 minutes. The film has the capacity to hypnotize but only for those willing to go where director Jonathan Glazer (Sexy Beast) wants to take them. It's slow moving and contemplative. The horror elements are slight. There are no "boo!" moments. The special effects are limited and rather primitive. Those who fall under Glazer's spell will applaud Under the Skin as visionary. Those who don't will find it dull, opaque, and largely a waste of time. It's easy for me to see both viewpoints although my personal perspective is closer to the former than the latter."

    http://www.reelviews.net/php_review_template.php?identifier=2748
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    JohnLoony said:

    (OT) I have a question about the Harrying of the North which, among other things, was mentioned by Rory Stewart MP in his programme about the Middleland. It is often said that 100,000 people were killed, the source being Orderic Vitalis who wrote about it 50 years later.

    How would he know? They didn't have the resources of modern journalism or modern communications, so any accounting of the numbers killed would have been wildly speculative and subject of guesswork, rumour, propaganda and Chinese whispers. I don't see how it can be stated with any great certainty that it was 100,000 or 10,000 or 2,000 or whatever.

    So why is the figure of 100,000 (which seems suspiciously too big to me) so often quoted and repeated as if it's considered accurate?

    You sound like a Harrying-of-the-North-denier to me...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390
    AndyJS said:

    I like watching films set in London from the late 70s/early 80s because there was a real grimy edginess about the city at that time. Movies like The Long Good Friday and The Dogs of War.

    Try "Juggernaut" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggernaut_(1974_film) . It drips with period detail
This discussion has been closed.