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The green shoots of recovery for Kemi? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,729
edited October 12 in General
The green shoots of recovery for Kemi? – politicalbetting.com

?The latest Opinium @ObserverUK polling ? Early signs of a Kemi boost? Badenoch’s net approval rating rises by 8 points in a week after #cpc25.Her score of net -14 is the highest she’s had at any point in 2025. pic.twitter.com/1001IDMIgU

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  • eekeek Posts: 31,496
    edited October 12
    First - something the Tories will never be again..
  • Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,061
    I've read the piece and it isn't very enlightening, although it proves one thing. Banishment from here to Conhome is a very serious sanction!
  • Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I posted this early this morning by the Guardian which is profound and thought provoking

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/oct/12/france-crisis-political-faith-belief-democratic-world-vanishing?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,514
    FPT… https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/reform-uks-deputy-leader-cornwall-10560795

    Reform’s deputy leader in Cornwall leaves the party.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,306

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    Privatise the motorways. Would be a big revenue raiser for government. It’s the only bit of national infrastructure we provide for free, and anyone who’s experienced the joy of autoroute driving in France will attest to its superiority.

    First step on the path towards phasing out VED and replacing with road pricing, as the rise of EVs and commensurate loss of fuel duty requires.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,069
    I was at a 50th last night, a friend of the host who lives in Essex said he was going to have to vote Tory to keep Reform out... he wasn't happy about it though!
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,598

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,306

    I was at a 50th last night, a friend of the host who lives in Essex said he was going to have to vote Tory to keep Reform out... he wasn't happy about it though!

    This has become the story of Les Republicains too. As much as they try to sound more and more xenophobic to chase the RN vote, they end up just becoming part of the anti Le Pen bloc by default, along with RE and the socialists.

    The same fate has already befallen Germany’s CDU but at least they are the primary anti-AfD party, not a hanger on.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,186

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    It would send the Sun dolally. See the preemptive fury here when anyone suggests stopping the "temporary" fuel duty freeze.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,306
    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,061

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    Motorway tolls are not a vote winner. Tax cuts are.

    If a Party is at least a decade from Government (and longer if they jump on board the Reform band wagon) they don't really need balanced policy, dreamcasting will do.
  • Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    Motorway tolls are not a vote winner. Tax cuts are.

    If a Party is at least a decade from Government (and longer if they jump on board the Reform band wagon) they don't really need balanced policy, dreamcasting will do.
    Whenever we drove south, often to Heathrow, we always used the M6 toll
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,175
    edited October 12
    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
    The toll might be part of the reason there isn't gridlock. Could probably make an argument that some tolls boost the economy by stripping out some of the less economically viable traffic, opening up the roads for the firms that depend on them.

    I'm pretty convinced this is true about the Edinburgh bypass. It's a really handy way to get from the east of the city to the business parks in the west - much better than the two buses/trams alternative because the marginal cost of driving is so low. But it also means that the freight trying to move from the NE of England in towards Glasgow/the Highlands gets caught up in commuter traffic.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,101
    edited October 12
    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.
  • boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    There is a consensus that our infrastructure is crap. What we lack is the ability to smash a failed status quo where planning takes an eternity and regulations demand bat tunnels at £bonkers cost and government requires infrastructure that can withstand the breakup of the Earth's crust. Which is how we end up building very little and paying insane prices for it.

    I think we need the vision thing back in our politics. I personally don't think a load of toll motorways is the way forward, but I can at least accept that the status quo doesn't work and toll routes are universal in countries like France.

    The Tories need to stop fiddling around the edges and tell us what conservatism actually looks like. Thatcher wanted a home owning share holding privatising business-led enterprise economy. And built policies to deliver that.

    "Lets abolish stamp duty to make owning a home even harder" is a daft policy in isolation. But without the vision thing to put it into the context of all the other policies it is pointless edge fiddling.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,598
    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
    Is it easier to get projects done in London because it’s always changing, developing, noisy, busy etc so the actual disruption blends in a bit with normality whereas if you want to suddenly knock up a peage area in the countryside to join the new M3 toll road then it’s a big noise, change, it’s busy and disruptive so people notice and try to make sure it happens elsewhere.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,061

    I was at a 50th last night, a friend of the host who lives in Essex said he was going to have to vote Tory to keep Reform out... he wasn't happy about it though!

    Would there be much point if Jenrick Tories are indistinguishable from Reform? We need the non-Jenrick Tories to prevail.
  • Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    It would send the Sun dolally. See the preemptive fury here when anyone suggests stopping the "temporary" fuel duty freeze.
    I am not proposing road pricing or privatising the roads. I am suggesting that a Tory initiative could be to build new motorways to compete with the state-owned ones.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,666

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    To my mind the roads have been the collision of environmental concern vs growth for many years. Build roads, get growth. But build roads means more pollution.

    Plus we have a sensational ability to let a small number of protesters derail things that would benefit millions, Hence the A303 still won’t be dialled at Stonehenge.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,666

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    It would send the Sun dolally. See the preemptive fury here when anyone suggests stopping the "temporary" fuel duty freeze.
    I am not proposing road pricing or privatising the roads. I am suggesting that a Tory initiative could be to build new motorways to compete with the state-owned ones.
    Where, though? We cannot build anything without nimby opposition. Usually led by the Lib Dem’s.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,871

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    It would send the Sun dolally. See the preemptive fury here when anyone suggests stopping the "temporary" fuel duty freeze.
    I am not proposing road pricing or privatising the roads. I am suggesting that a Tory initiative could be to build new motorways to compete with the state-owned ones.
    Try that in South-West Wales and you'll raise the ghost of Rebecca!
  • Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
    The toll might be part of the reason there isn't gridlock. Could probably make an argument that some tolls boost the economy by stripping out some of the less economically viable traffic, opening up the roads for the firms that depend on them.

    I'm pretty convinced this is true about the Edinburgh bypass. It's a really handy way to get from the east of the city to the business parks in the west - much better than the two buses/trams alternative because the marginal cost of driving is so low. But it also means that the freight trying to move from the NE of England in towards Glasgow/the Highlands gets caught up in commuter traffic.
    Edinburgh and Glasgow being great examples of what I am talking about. For me to head south I have two choices - Glasgow commuter traffic as I briefly enter the City of Glasgow on the M73, or Edinburgh commuter traffic as I enter the City of Edinburgh on the A720.

    The "M7 Fastlink" scheme long cancelled. Company builds a motorway from the M74 at Abington, crossing the M8 to the M9 at Grangemouth. Charges a toll, but it opens up traffic flow through the central belt, unjamming parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh commuter networks.

    Personally I'd build it in the public sector - my proposal is a StateCo road construction business. But the Tories like private so have a consortium do it for profit. Whatever. At least we would build *something*. As opposed to nothing as we always seem to do.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,496

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
  • Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    To my mind the roads have been the collision of environmental concern vs growth for many years. Build roads, get growth. But build roads means more pollution.

    Plus we have a sensational ability to let a small number of protesters derail things that would benefit millions, Hence the A303 still won’t be dialled at Stonehenge.
    We are electrifying vehicles, so any "pollution will increase" cry gets defeated by falling pollution from traffic. To say nothing of the relief in communities who have the scourge of long distance traffic removed.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,531
    edited October 12

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
    The toll might be part of the reason there isn't gridlock. Could probably make an argument that some tolls boost the economy by stripping out some of the less economically viable traffic, opening up the roads for the firms that depend on them.

    I'm pretty convinced this is true about the Edinburgh bypass. It's a really handy way to get from the east of the city to the business parks in the west - much better than the two buses/trams alternative because the marginal cost of driving is so low. But it also means that the freight trying to move from the NE of England in towards Glasgow/the Highlands gets caught up in commuter traffic.
    Edinburgh and Glasgow being great examples of what I am talking about. For me to head south I have two choices - Glasgow commuter traffic as I briefly enter the City of Glasgow on the M73, or Edinburgh commuter traffic as I enter the City of Edinburgh on the A720.

    The "M7 Fastlink" scheme long cancelled. Company builds a motorway from the M74 at Abington, crossing the M8 to the M9 at Grangemouth. Charges a toll, but it opens up traffic flow through the central belt, unjamming parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh commuter networks.

    Personally I'd build it in the public sector - my proposal is a StateCo road construction business. But the Tories like private so have a consortium do it for profit. Whatever. At least we would build *something*. As opposed to nothing as we always seem to do.
    Why do you think this wouldn’t be subject to the Enquiry Industrial Complex? As leading lawyers from the sector put it, just other day, the right to an endless enquiry is a human right.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,722
    If Kemi can translate her 23% approval rating back to a 23% Conservative voteshare that would be almost back to 2024 general election Conservative vote levels.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,261
    edited October 12
    Huzzah, I already do this with some Royal Mail, Amazon, and DPD parcels/deliveries/returns.

    Why Royal Mail could axe stamps and addresses on letters

    Handwritten envelopes may become a thing of the past as the new boss moves to modernise the business


    In a world of supercomputers, artificial intelligence and social media, writing a postal address feels something of an anachronism.

    Martin Seidenberg says that technology is evolving and that could revolutionise the sending of letters and parcels. Customers are already able to buy postage online, but in future customers may be able to input a recipient’s address and then an alpha-numeric code could be spat out that can be popped on any given letter or parcel.

    Will you need to write the address as well? “For now, yes,” responds the boss of Royal Mail’s parent company. He clams up when asked for further details, but it’s too late. Seidenberg has given the game away with the “for now” — but then this is all very early stage thinking.


    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/royal-mail-stamps-addresses-letters-ts7vrhtf2
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,722
    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,666

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    To my mind the roads have been the collision of environmental concern vs growth for many years. Build roads, get growth. But build roads means more pollution.

    Plus we have a sensational ability to let a small number of protesters derail things that would benefit millions, Hence the A303 still won’t be dialled at Stonehenge.
    We are electrifying vehicles, so any "pollution will increase" cry gets defeated by falling pollution from traffic. To say nothing of the relief in communities who have the scourge of long distance traffic removed.
    I completely agree, I was more stating why we have done so little in recent decades.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,722
    TimS said:

    I was at a 50th last night, a friend of the host who lives in Essex said he was going to have to vote Tory to keep Reform out... he wasn't happy about it though!

    This has become the story of Les Republicains too. As much as they try to sound more and more xenophobic to chase the RN vote, they end up just becoming part of the anti Le Pen bloc by default, along with RE and the socialists.

    The same fate has already befallen Germany’s CDU but at least they are the primary anti-AfD party, not a hanger on.
    Les Republicains are currently providing most of Macron's conveyor belt of PMs, so are effectively often still in power to done degree in France.

    In Germany CDU leader Metz is now Chancellor yes so a somewhat different scenario to the Tories
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,061

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    Labour are going to get smashed. That is beyond doubt.

    Tories have talked up Badenoch's speech. I am not sure it was as ground breaking as you all believe it was. I doubt it gains the traction you expect.

    Although in her defence Jenrick's Andy Burnham tribute act was at least temporarily put back in its box.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,428
    HYUFD said:

    If Kemi can translate her 23% approval rating back to a 23% Conservative voteshare that would be almost back to 2024 general election Conservative vote levels.

    Whereas if Ed Davey can get his 22% approval to a 22% Liberal Democrat vote share that will mean a 5% swing from the Conservatives and further Conservative losses.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,069

    I was at a 50th last night, a friend of the host who lives in Essex said he was going to have to vote Tory to keep Reform out... he wasn't happy about it though!

    Would there be much point if Jenrick Tories are indistinguishable from Reform? We need the non-Jenrick Tories to prevail.
    He said his current Tory MP is okay as Tories go, can't remember his name, the area is Brentford I think.
  • Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
    The toll might be part of the reason there isn't gridlock. Could probably make an argument that some tolls boost the economy by stripping out some of the less economically viable traffic, opening up the roads for the firms that depend on them.

    I'm pretty convinced this is true about the Edinburgh bypass. It's a really handy way to get from the east of the city to the business parks in the west - much better than the two buses/trams alternative because the marginal cost of driving is so low. But it also means that the freight trying to move from the NE of England in towards Glasgow/the Highlands gets caught up in commuter traffic.
    Edinburgh and Glasgow being great examples of what I am talking about. For me to head south I have two choices - Glasgow commuter traffic as I briefly enter the City of Glasgow on the M73, or Edinburgh commuter traffic as I enter the City of Edinburgh on the A720.

    The "M7 Fastlink" scheme long cancelled. Company builds a motorway from the M74 at Abington, crossing the M8 to the M9 at Grangemouth. Charges a toll, but it opens up traffic flow through the central belt, unjamming parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh commuter networks.

    Personally I'd build it in the public sector - my proposal is a StateCo road construction business. But the Tories like private so have a consortium do it for profit. Whatever. At least we would build *something*. As opposed to nothing as we always seem to do.
    We have travelled from Llandudno to Lossiemouth countless times and use the M6, M74, then to Perth, A9 to Aviemore, then on to Elgin and Lossiemouth
    .
    Occasionally we have gone via Edinburgh and the M90 but the first route is our preferred choice

    The lack of dualling the A9 to Inverness is disgraceful and it remains one of the most dangerous roads in UK
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,061

    I was at a 50th last night, a friend of the host who lives in Essex said he was going to have to vote Tory to keep Reform out... he wasn't happy about it though!

    Would there be much point if Jenrick Tories are indistinguishable from Reform? We need the non-Jenrick Tories to prevail.
    He said his current Tory MP is okay as Tories go, can't remember his name, the area is Brentford I think.
    Jenrick still becomes Deputy PM under PM Farage.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,871
    edited October 12

    I was at a 50th last night, a friend of the host who lives in Essex said he was going to have to vote Tory to keep Reform out... he wasn't happy about it though!

    Would there be much point if Jenrick Tories are indistinguishable from Reform? We need the non-Jenrick Tories to prevail.
    He said his current Tory MP is okay as Tories go, can't remember his name, the area is Brentford I think.
    Brentwood or Braintree if it's Essex. Our friend HYFUD will tell you all about Brentwood's MP; Braintree's is Mr too Clever-ly for his own good!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,722
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Kemi can translate her 23% approval rating back to a 23% Conservative voteshare that would be almost back to 2024 general election Conservative vote levels.

    Whereas if Ed Davey can get his 22% approval to a 22% Liberal Democrat vote share that will mean a 5% swing from the Conservatives and further Conservative losses.
    Not if most of those gains to get to 22% come from Labour, which would boost the Tories in Labour held seats the Tories were second last year
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,101

    I was at a 50th last night, a friend of the host who lives in Essex said he was going to have to vote Tory to keep Reform out... he wasn't happy about it though!

    Kemi will take all the nose-holders she can get!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,428
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,722

    I was at a 50th last night, a friend of the host who lives in Essex said he was going to have to vote Tory to keep Reform out... he wasn't happy about it though!

    Would there be much point if Jenrick Tories are indistinguishable from Reform? We need the non-Jenrick Tories to prevail.
    He said his current Tory MP is okay as Tories go, can't remember his name, the area is Brentford I think.
    Brentwood or Braintree if it's Essex. Our friend HYFUD will tell you all about Brentwood's MP; Braintree's is Mr too Clever-ly for his own good!
    Alex Burghart, the Conservatives were first and Reform second in Brentwood and Ongar at the last general election
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,061
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Kemi can translate her 23% approval rating back to a 23% Conservative voteshare that would be almost back to 2024 general election Conservative vote levels.

    Whereas if Ed Davey can get his 22% approval to a 22% Liberal Democrat vote share that will mean a 5% swing from the Conservatives and further Conservative losses.
    Not if most of those gains to get to 22% come from Labour, which would boost the Tories in Labour held seats the Tories were second last year
    Has the voter* already forgotten who crashed the nation?

    * Not just PB Tories.
  • stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Re your last paragraph it applies only to the Primary Residence
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,722
    edited October 12
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
  • HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Kemi can translate her 23% approval rating back to a 23% Conservative voteshare that would be almost back to 2024 general election Conservative vote levels.

    Whereas if Ed Davey can get his 22% approval to a 22% Liberal Democrat vote share that will mean a 5% swing from the Conservatives and further Conservative losses.
    Not if most of those gains to get to 22% come from Labour, which would boost the Tories in Labour held seats the Tories were second last year
    Has the voter* already forgotten who crashed the nation?

    * Not just PB Tories.
    You mean covid and the war in Ukraine obviously
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,711
    Outside London, it will be quite hard to compare the local elections of 2026, with those of earlier years, as county councils are being converted into new unitary authorities.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_United_Kingdom_local_elections

    In London, I expect that the Conservatives will regain Westminster, and Barnet, and maybe Wandsworth, while losing Bexley and Bromley. Basically, a wash. I think Reform will gain Bexley and Havering.

    Outside London, I expect that Reform will take Barnsley, South Tyneside, Wakefield, Sunderland, and Sandwell off Labour, and Walsall off the Conservatives.

    I expect they will win the new unitary authorities of Essex, Norfolk, and Suffolk, and the mayoralties. I think they will win I o W, and Southend from NOC, and Thurrock from Labour.
  • Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
    The toll might be part of the reason there isn't gridlock. Could probably make an argument that some tolls boost the economy by stripping out some of the less economically viable traffic, opening up the roads for the firms that depend on them.

    I'm pretty convinced this is true about the Edinburgh bypass. It's a really handy way to get from the east of the city to the business parks in the west - much better than the two buses/trams alternative because the marginal cost of driving is so low. But it also means that the freight trying to move from the NE of England in towards Glasgow/the Highlands gets caught up in commuter traffic.
    Edinburgh and Glasgow being great examples of what I am talking about. For me to head south I have two choices - Glasgow commuter traffic as I briefly enter the City of Glasgow on the M73, or Edinburgh commuter traffic as I enter the City of Edinburgh on the A720.

    The "M7 Fastlink" scheme long cancelled. Company builds a motorway from the M74 at Abington, crossing the M8 to the M9 at Grangemouth. Charges a toll, but it opens up traffic flow through the central belt, unjamming parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh commuter networks.

    Personally I'd build it in the public sector - my proposal is a StateCo road construction business. But the Tories like private so have a consortium do it for profit. Whatever. At least we would build *something*. As opposed to nothing as we always seem to do.
    Why do you think this wouldn’t be subject to the Enquiry Industrial Complex? As leading lawyers from the sector put it, just other day, the right to an endless enquiry is a human right.
    Because I am proposing ideas for how the Tories could do the Vision Thing and become relevant again. And I wrote "easy planning clearance" - pass a law granting planning permission over the heads of local objections. And before anyone says "you can't do that" they already did with housing...
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,428
    Morning all :)

    As I said in a previous, credit where it's due and it does seem there are genuine signs of progress in Gaza. The long suffering of the people there will be ameliorated by the end of violence and the arrival of relief supplies but it's going to be a very long road back rebuilding and reconstructing the place which resembles, to my eyes, the shattered German cities entered by the allied armies in 1945.

    The reconstruction process in the west of Germany was multi-layered - economic, political and social. It will need to be the same in Gaza with the radicals expunged from influence and new "moderate" leadership coming to power aided as much a spossible by an international community who can see it's in everyone's best interests to tone down the rhetoric and dial up the relief.

    It's also clear however much Trump will try to take personal credit for what has happened there have been a lot of players involved in all this and we may never find out who said what to who and when to get us to this point which is fine.

    The problem is the Middle East has been the graveyard of good intentions from Camp David through Oslo to here. Resolving the underlying causes of these conflicts is far harder than achieving temporary truces or ceasefires.

    Whether this will mark the end of the salience of the issue in British domestic politics remains to be seen.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,871
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    As I said in a previous, credit where it's due and it does seem there are genuine signs of progress in Gaza. The long suffering of the people there will be ameliorated by the end of violence and the arrival of relief supplies but it's going to be a very long road back rebuilding and reconstructing the place which resembles, to my eyes, the shattered German cities entered by the allied armies in 1945.

    The reconstruction process in the west of Germany was multi-layered - economic, political and social. It will need to be the same in Gaza with the radicals expunged from influence and new "moderate" leadership coming to power aided as much a spossible by an international community who can see it's in everyone's best interests to tone down the rhetoric and dial up the relief.

    It's also clear however much Trump will try to take personal credit for what has happened there have been a lot of players involved in all this and we may never find out who said what to who and when to get us to this point which is fine.

    The problem is the Middle East has been the graveyard of good intentions from Camp David through Oslo to here. Resolving the underlying causes of these conflicts is far harder than achieving temporary truces or ceasefires.

    Whether this will mark the end of the salience of the issue in British domestic politics remains to be seen.

    Yes; as I posted on the previous thread a number of chickens are being counted but the eggs barely laid. From the pictures I have seen the situation is worse that Germany in 1945; there's almost nothing left standing.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,428
    Sean_F said:

    Outside London, it will be quite hard to compare the local elections of 2026, with those of earlier years, as county councils are being converted into new unitary authorities.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_United_Kingdom_local_elections

    In London, I expect that the Conservatives will regain Westminster, and Barnet, and maybe Wandsworth, while losing Bexley and Bromley. Basically, a wash. I think Reform will gain Bexley and Havering.

    Outside London, I expect that Reform will take Barnsley, South Tyneside, Wakefield, Sunderland, and Sandwell off Labour, and Walsall off the Conservatives.

    I expect they will win the new unitary authorities of Essex, Norfolk, and Suffolk, and the mayoralties. I think they will win I o W, and Southend from NOC, and Thurrock from Labour.

    There seems a lot of doubt over whether the Shadow Authority elections due to take place in 2026 in Surrey and elsewhere will happen. The decision on the future structure of local Government in these areas continues to be delayed - presumably due to the complete clearout of the DHCLG with the resignation of Angela Rayner early last month.

    Jim McMahon has been replaced by Alison McGovern as the Minister responsible for local Government. Where she is on Local Government Reorganisation I don't know but my information is any decision is now not expected until mid November and I understand a number of councils are very concerned about the tight timescale for organising and running these elections.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,390

    Huzzah, I already do this with some Royal Mail, Amazon, and DPD parcels/deliveries/returns.

    Why Royal Mail could axe stamps and addresses on letters

    Handwritten envelopes may become a thing of the past as the new boss moves to modernise the business


    In a world of supercomputers, artificial intelligence and social media, writing a postal address feels something of an anachronism.

    Martin Seidenberg says that technology is evolving and that could revolutionise the sending of letters and parcels. Customers are already able to buy postage online, but in future customers may be able to input a recipient’s address and then an alpha-numeric code could be spat out that can be popped on any given letter or parcel.

    Will you need to write the address as well? “For now, yes,” responds the boss of Royal Mail’s parent company. He clams up when asked for further details, but it’s too late. Seidenberg has given the game away with the “for now” — but then this is all very early stage thinking.


    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/royal-mail-stamps-addresses-letters-ts7vrhtf2

    HANDWRITING.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,426
    Lord, save us. Chatfishing is a word. Using ChatGPT to generate responses to girls for use in online dating apps.



    https://bsky.app/profile/youngvulgarian.marieleconte.com/post/3m2ydsiiw4s2r
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,837
    edited October 12

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    It would send the Sun dolally. See the preemptive fury here when anyone suggests stopping the "temporary" fuel duty freeze.
    I am not proposing road pricing or privatising the roads. I am suggesting that a Tory initiative could be to build new motorways to compete with the state-owned ones.
    If the Tories are as successful at building new roads as they are at building new railways, I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for them to be built.
  • Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    It would send the Sun dolally. See the preemptive fury here when anyone suggests stopping the "temporary" fuel duty freeze.
    I am not proposing road pricing or privatising the roads. I am suggesting that a Tory initiative could be to build new motorways to compete with the state-owned ones.
    If the Tories are as successful at building new roads as they are at building new railways, I wouldn’t hold you breath waiting for them to be built.
    This has been an interesting red team exercise. I am most content with the mess the Tories have got themselves into. I'm just floating some of the policies they could have been doing instead of painting over Mickey Mouse...
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,837

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
    The toll might be part of the reason there isn't gridlock. Could probably make an argument that some tolls boost the economy by stripping out some of the less economically viable traffic, opening up the roads for the firms that depend on them.

    I'm pretty convinced this is true about the Edinburgh bypass. It's a really handy way to get from the east of the city to the business parks in the west - much better than the two buses/trams alternative because the marginal cost of driving is so low. But it also means that the freight trying to move from the NE of England in towards Glasgow/the Highlands gets caught up in commuter traffic.
    Edinburgh and Glasgow being great examples of what I am talking about. For me to head south I have two choices - Glasgow commuter traffic as I briefly enter the City of Glasgow on the M73, or Edinburgh commuter traffic as I enter the City of Edinburgh on the A720.

    The "M7 Fastlink" scheme long cancelled. Company builds a motorway from the M74 at Abington, crossing the M8 to the M9 at Grangemouth. Charges a toll, but it opens up traffic flow through the central belt, unjamming parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh commuter networks.

    Personally I'd build it in the public sector - my proposal is a StateCo road construction business. But the Tories like private so have a consortium do it for profit. Whatever. At least we would build *something*. As opposed to nothing as we always seem to do.
    We have travelled from Llandudno to Lossiemouth countless times and use the M6, M74, then to Perth, A9 to Aviemore, then on to Elgin and Lossiemouth
    .
    Occasionally we have gone via Edinburgh and the M90 but the first route is our preferred choice

    The lack of dualling the A9 to Inverness is disgraceful and it remains one of the most dangerous roads in UK
    If the Greens hadn’t been invited into government by Sturgeon, dualling the A9 would have progressed a lot quicker. Urban metropolitans don’t regularly cycle to Inverness, so it wasn’t a priority.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,306
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    As I said in a previous, credit where it's due and it does seem there are genuine signs of progress in Gaza. The long suffering of the people there will be ameliorated by the end of violence and the arrival of relief supplies but it's going to be a very long road back rebuilding and reconstructing the place which resembles, to my eyes, the shattered German cities entered by the allied armies in 1945.

    The reconstruction process in the west of Germany was multi-layered - economic, political and social. It will need to be the same in Gaza with the radicals expunged from influence and new "moderate" leadership coming to power aided as much a spossible by an international community who can see it's in everyone's best interests to tone down the rhetoric and dial up the relief.

    It's also clear however much Trump will try to take personal credit for what has happened there have been a lot of players involved in all this and we may never find out who said what to who and when to get us to this point which is fine.

    The problem is the Middle East has been the graveyard of good intentions from Camp David through Oslo to here. Resolving the underlying causes of these conflicts is far harder than achieving temporary truces or ceasefires.

    Whether this will mark the end of the salience of the issue in British domestic politics remains to be seen.

    One further glimmer of hope for the long term, though not necessarily to my personal taste: several regimes in the region have managed in recent years to combine conservative Islamism with free market capitalism and bling, a sort of 19th century Protestantism for the 21st century Middle East. Qatar, Turkey, the new Syrian regime, even Saudi.

    Those countries have mostly lost interest in needling Israel. Money trumps geopolitics for them. It’s only the countries that haven’t taken the full fat capitalist pill - notably the Shias of Iran, Yemen and Lebanon - that still seem to want to have beef.

    As a model perhaps that works for Gaza. Let the Qataris invest their petrodollars and the Turks do their industrialisation, and we could end up with a thoroughly undemocratic but largely non-violent and capitalistic regime there on the model of the GCC states.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,732
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    If you want to see what she actually said the text of her speech is here. There are actual manifesto promises which may or may not happen if she is ousted. Or they may not happen the promises are costed as the condition of the state's finances won't be known for 3-4 years.

    On a related subject just reading about Time Share fraud. It relates to a particular group of companies that made promises, kept millions without supplying promises. They then reappeared as a Claims company offering to sue (for a fee) the group that defrauded them. Struck me that people who continue to believe in outlandish promises will get shafted a number of times.

    https://www.ukpol.co.uk/kemi-badenoch-2025-speech-to-conservative-party-conference/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,871
    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:

    Outside London, it will be quite hard to compare the local elections of 2026, with those of earlier years, as county councils are being converted into new unitary authorities.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_United_Kingdom_local_elections

    In London, I expect that the Conservatives will regain Westminster, and Barnet, and maybe Wandsworth, while losing Bexley and Bromley. Basically, a wash. I think Reform will gain Bexley and Havering.

    Outside London, I expect that Reform will take Barnsley, South Tyneside, Wakefield, Sunderland, and Sandwell off Labour, and Walsall off the Conservatives.

    I expect they will win the new unitary authorities of Essex, Norfolk, and Suffolk, and the mayoralties. I think they will win I o W, and Southend from NOC, and Thurrock from Labour.

    There seems a lot of doubt over whether the Shadow Authority elections due to take place in 2026 in Surrey and elsewhere will happen. The decision on the future structure of local Government in these areas continues to be delayed - presumably due to the complete clearout of the DHCLG with the resignation of Angela Rayner early last month.

    Jim McMahon has been replaced by Alison McGovern as the Minister responsible for local Government. Where she is on Local Government Reorganisation I don't know but my information is any decision is now not expected until mid November and I understand a number of councils are very concerned about the tight timescale for organising and running these elections.
    Braintree Council, which might be abolished, is pushing ahead with it's Local Plan, the brainchild of the (currently) ruling Conservatives with, apparently, no input from the Green/Independent Opposition.
    There's no evidence of any Reform Party locally, so I've no idea what they think about it.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,837
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,531

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
    The toll might be part of the reason there isn't gridlock. Could probably make an argument that some tolls boost the economy by stripping out some of the less economically viable traffic, opening up the roads for the firms that depend on them.

    I'm pretty convinced this is true about the Edinburgh bypass. It's a really handy way to get from the east of the city to the business parks in the west - much better than the two buses/trams alternative because the marginal cost of driving is so low. But it also means that the freight trying to move from the NE of England in towards Glasgow/the Highlands gets caught up in commuter traffic.
    Edinburgh and Glasgow being great examples of what I am talking about. For me to head south I have two choices - Glasgow commuter traffic as I briefly enter the City of Glasgow on the M73, or Edinburgh commuter traffic as I enter the City of Edinburgh on the A720.

    The "M7 Fastlink" scheme long cancelled. Company builds a motorway from the M74 at Abington, crossing the M8 to the M9 at Grangemouth. Charges a toll, but it opens up traffic flow through the central belt, unjamming parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh commuter networks.

    Personally I'd build it in the public sector - my proposal is a StateCo road construction business. But the Tories like private so have a consortium do it for profit. Whatever. At least we would build *something*. As opposed to nothing as we always seem to do.
    Why do you think this wouldn’t be subject to the Enquiry Industrial Complex? As leading lawyers from the sector put it, just other day, the right to an endless enquiry is a human right.
    Because I am proposing ideas for how the Tories could do the Vision Thing and become relevant again. And I wrote "easy planning clearance" - pass a law granting planning permission over the heads of local objections. And before anyone says "you can't do that" they already did with housing...
    No new law required. Primary legislation in the Commons.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,722

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Agreed. But you also need to attract new voters and expand your core. Especially with an otherwise ageing membership.,..
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,365
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    I always enjoy your notes from East Ham, particularly having been a Newham resident for the last two and half years. But I have to report that last week I moved home to across the river, and am now in Greenwich. So I will not have the chance to cast my verdict on Newham Council in next year’s election; I have to say I would have been looking at he anyone but Labour option.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,496
    edited October 12
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Which is why as I pointed out in the first post of this thread - the Tories are headed for extinction... Since 2016 they've ignored their core vote to deliver Brexit regardless of everything else..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,722
    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:

    Outside London, it will be quite hard to compare the local elections of 2026, with those of earlier years, as county councils are being converted into new unitary authorities.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_United_Kingdom_local_elections

    In London, I expect that the Conservatives will regain Westminster, and Barnet, and maybe Wandsworth, while losing Bexley and Bromley. Basically, a wash. I think Reform will gain Bexley and Havering.

    Outside London, I expect that Reform will take Barnsley, South Tyneside, Wakefield, Sunderland, and Sandwell off Labour, and Walsall off the Conservatives.

    I expect they will win the new unitary authorities of Essex, Norfolk, and Suffolk, and the mayoralties. I think they will win I o W, and Southend from NOC, and Thurrock from Labour.

    There seems a lot of doubt over whether the Shadow Authority elections due to take place in 2026 in Surrey and elsewhere will happen. The decision on the future structure of local Government in these areas continues to be delayed - presumably due to the complete clearout of the DHCLG with the resignation of Angela Rayner early last month.

    Jim McMahon has been replaced by Alison McGovern as the Minister responsible for local Government. Where she is on Local Government Reorganisation I don't know but my information is any decision is now not expected until mid November and I understand a number of councils are very concerned about the tight timescale for organising and running these elections.
    Indeed the Essex Mayor election is next year but the unitary election isn't due until 2027 at the earliest
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,873
    edited October 12

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
    The toll might be part of the reason there isn't gridlock. Could probably make an argument that some tolls boost the economy by stripping out some of the less economically viable traffic, opening up the roads for the firms that depend on them.

    I'm pretty convinced this is true about the Edinburgh bypass. It's a really handy way to get from the east of the city to the business parks in the west - much better than the two buses/trams alternative because the marginal cost of driving is so low. But it also means that the freight trying to move from the NE of England in towards Glasgow/the Highlands gets caught up in commuter traffic.
    Edinburgh and Glasgow being great examples of what I am talking about. For me to head south I have two choices - Glasgow commuter traffic as I briefly enter the City of Glasgow on the M73, or Edinburgh commuter traffic as I enter the City of Edinburgh on the A720.

    The "M7 Fastlink" scheme long cancelled. Company builds a motorway from the M74 at Abington, crossing the M8 to the M9 at Grangemouth. Charges a toll, but it opens up traffic flow through the central belt, unjamming parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh commuter networks.

    Personally I'd build it in the public sector - my proposal is a StateCo road construction business. But the Tories like private so have a consortium do it for profit. Whatever. At least we would build *something*. As opposed to nothing as we always seem to do.
    Why do you think this wouldn’t be subject to the Enquiry Industrial Complex? As leading lawyers from the sector put it, just other day, the right to an endless enquiry is a human right.
    Because I am proposing ideas for how the Tories could do the Vision Thing and become relevant again. And I wrote "easy planning clearance" - pass a law granting planning permission over the heads of local objections. And before anyone says "you can't do that" they already did with housing...
    Working within the existing planning system won't get us nearly far enough. If you have to have some kind of inquiry before every project of any consequence you'll never get anywhere. We need to scrap the current system and replace it with a zoning system like just about every other country has, whereby if your project meets pre-specified standards for a particular area, it gets built, whether it is a single family house or a huge apartment block. That reduces uncertainty for both builders and residents, speeds the system up massively and allows much more to be built if you specify the zones well. It would also devastate the whole inquiry-industrial complex and puts lots of lawyers out of work, so it'd be satisfying as well as sensible.

    The current system is unreformable.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,101
    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    This is one of the bigger stories that hasn't perhaps got the coverage it deserves: Reform can't find those big efficiency savings they promised, so are having to push up council tax rates:

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/reform-council-tax-hikes-lower-tax-farage-5HjdFDg_2/

    A useful political slogan:

    REFORM WILL PUT UP YOUR COUNCIL TAX
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,722

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
    The toll might be part of the reason there isn't gridlock. Could probably make an argument that some tolls boost the economy by stripping out some of the less economically viable traffic, opening up the roads for the firms that depend on them.

    I'm pretty convinced this is true about the Edinburgh bypass. It's a really handy way to get from the east of the city to the business parks in the west - much better than the two buses/trams alternative because the marginal cost of driving is so low. But it also means that the freight trying to move from the NE of England in towards Glasgow/the Highlands gets caught up in commuter traffic.
    Edinburgh and Glasgow being great examples of what I am talking about. For me to head south I have two choices - Glasgow commuter traffic as I briefly enter the City of Glasgow on the M73, or Edinburgh commuter traffic as I enter the City of Edinburgh on the A720.

    The "M7 Fastlink" scheme long cancelled. Company builds a motorway from the M74 at Abington, crossing the M8 to the M9 at Grangemouth. Charges a toll, but it opens up traffic flow through the central belt, unjamming parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh commuter networks.

    Personally I'd build it in the public sector - my proposal is a StateCo road construction business. But the Tories like private so have a consortium do it for profit. Whatever. At least we would build *something*. As opposed to nothing as we always seem to do.
    Why do you think this wouldn’t be subject to the Enquiry Industrial Complex? As leading lawyers from the sector put it, just other day, the right to an endless enquiry is a human right.
    Because I am proposing ideas for how the Tories could do the Vision Thing and become relevant again. And I wrote "easy planning clearance" - pass a law granting planning permission over the heads of local objections. And before anyone says "you can't do that" they already did with housing...
    Which would be a disaster as you cannot get new developments into place without local community involvement.

    You also only suggested it as you want Nimby voters still voting Tory to go to your Nimby LDs instead
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,722
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Which is why as I pointed out in the first post of this thread - the Tories are headed for extinction... Since 2016 they've ignored their core vote to deliver Brexit regardless of everything else..
    Their core vote voted for Brexit it was dumping Brexit delivering Boris that saw the resurgence of Farage in the first place. He had only been put back in his box after Boris became PM, before Farage and his Brexit Party had surged in the polls as the Tories failed to get Brexit done
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,547

    Lord, save us. Chatfishing is a word. Using ChatGPT to generate responses to girls for use in online dating apps.

    https://bsky.app/profile/youngvulgarian.marieleconte.com/post/3m2ydsiiw4s2r

    The Guardian article in the link is quite something.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/oct/12/chatgpt-ed-into-bed-chatfishing-on-dating-apps?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    It does seem that Chatfishers flop fairly quickly once they meet their target in person. I can see too why some people prefer AI dates to real ones, particularly narcissists.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,722

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Agreed. But you also need to attract new voters and expand your core. Especially with an otherwise ageing membership.,..
    Stamp duty cutting is a policy targeted at first time buyers and second time buyers especially in London and the South, not pensioners
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,186
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Which is why as I pointed out in the first post of this thread - the Tories are headed for extinction... Since 2016 they've ignored their core vote to deliver Brexit regardless of everything else..
    Their core vote voted for Brexit it was dumping Brexit delivering Boris that saw the resurgence of Farage in the first place. He had only been put back in his box after Boris became PM, before Farage and his Brexit Party had surged in the polls as the Tories failed to get Brexit done
    Depends what you count as their core vote.

    The old Conservative core, people doing well but tolerating just enough social reform as was needed to stave off revolution, weren't particularly keen on Brexit.

    The new Conservative core, greedy old people, were far keener on it, because they saw it as another money flow that should be diverted to them.

    The Conservatives aren't the only ones with that confusion. Labour's actual core is early middle-aged graduates working in services or the public sector professions. But the party are still haunted by horny-handed sons of toil. They are way less numerous than they were, and the horny-handed retirees of toil have been lost to Farage.

    (Reform also have a confusion between stout yeomen in the red wall and a slightly different subset of pensioners to the Conservatives, but somehow they square that circle. For now, anyway.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,547
    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
    The toll might be part of the reason there isn't gridlock. Could probably make an argument that some tolls boost the economy by stripping out some of the less economically viable traffic, opening up the roads for the firms that depend on them.

    I'm pretty convinced this is true about the Edinburgh bypass. It's a really handy way to get from the east of the city to the business parks in the west - much better than the two buses/trams alternative because the marginal cost of driving is so low. But it also means that the freight trying to move from the NE of England in towards Glasgow/the Highlands gets caught up in commuter traffic.
    Edinburgh and Glasgow being great examples of what I am talking about. For me to head south I have two choices - Glasgow commuter traffic as I briefly enter the City of Glasgow on the M73, or Edinburgh commuter traffic as I enter the City of Edinburgh on the A720.

    The "M7 Fastlink" scheme long cancelled. Company builds a motorway from the M74 at Abington, crossing the M8 to the M9 at Grangemouth. Charges a toll, but it opens up traffic flow through the central belt, unjamming parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh commuter networks.

    Personally I'd build it in the public sector - my proposal is a StateCo road construction business. But the Tories like private so have a consortium do it for profit. Whatever. At least we would build *something*. As opposed to nothing as we always seem to do.
    Why do you think this wouldn’t be subject to the Enquiry Industrial Complex? As leading lawyers from the sector put it, just other day, the right to an endless enquiry is a human right.
    Because I am proposing ideas for how the Tories could do the Vision Thing and become relevant again. And I wrote "easy planning clearance" - pass a law granting planning permission over the heads of local objections. And before anyone says "you can't do that" they already did with housing...
    Which would be a disaster as you cannot get new developments into place without local community involvement.

    You also only suggested it as you want Nimby voters still voting Tory to go to your Nimby LDs instead
    Nimbyism is very effective in local politics, and all parties do it.

    The reason is because by and large the Nimbys are correct. New developments bring traffic congestion, overcrowded schools, overcrowded GPs, loss of green spaces to walk or play and often environmental degradation such as flooding.

    The way to build more housing is to recognise the validity of these grievances. The infrastructure needs to be built first, and that requires more than the self interest of the big builders.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,732
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Agreed. But you also need to attract new voters and expand your core. Especially with an otherwise ageing membership.,..
    Stamp duty cutting is a policy targeted at first time buyers and second time buyers especially in London and the South, not pensioners
    Read the speech again. Bit odd in that if they downsize they will have more than enough to pay the tax - but it messes with message.

    "Pensioners who want to downsize but can’t afford the thousands of pounds they have to pay in tax."
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,531
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
    The toll might be part of the reason there isn't gridlock. Could probably make an argument that some tolls boost the economy by stripping out some of the less economically viable traffic, opening up the roads for the firms that depend on them.

    I'm pretty convinced this is true about the Edinburgh bypass. It's a really handy way to get from the east of the city to the business parks in the west - much better than the two buses/trams alternative because the marginal cost of driving is so low. But it also means that the freight trying to move from the NE of England in towards Glasgow/the Highlands gets caught up in commuter traffic.
    Edinburgh and Glasgow being great examples of what I am talking about. For me to head south I have two choices - Glasgow commuter traffic as I briefly enter the City of Glasgow on the M73, or Edinburgh commuter traffic as I enter the City of Edinburgh on the A720.

    The "M7 Fastlink" scheme long cancelled. Company builds a motorway from the M74 at Abington, crossing the M8 to the M9 at Grangemouth. Charges a toll, but it opens up traffic flow through the central belt, unjamming parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh commuter networks.

    Personally I'd build it in the public sector - my proposal is a StateCo road construction business. But the Tories like private so have a consortium do it for profit. Whatever. At least we would build *something*. As opposed to nothing as we always seem to do.
    Why do you think this wouldn’t be subject to the Enquiry Industrial Complex? As leading lawyers from the sector put it, just other day, the right to an endless enquiry is a human right.
    Because I am proposing ideas for how the Tories could do the Vision Thing and become relevant again. And I wrote "easy planning clearance" - pass a law granting planning permission over the heads of local objections. And before anyone says "you can't do that" they already did with housing...
    Which would be a disaster as you cannot get new developments into place without local community involvement.

    You also only suggested it as you want Nimby voters still voting Tory to go to your Nimby LDs instead
    Nimbyism is very effective in local politics, and all parties do it.

    The reason is because by and large the Nimbys are correct. New developments bring traffic congestion, overcrowded schools, overcrowded GPs, loss of green spaces to walk or play and often environmental degradation such as flooding.

    The way to build more housing is to recognise the validity of these grievances. The infrastructure needs to be built first, and that requires more than the self interest of the big builders.
    Which goes back to how the Victorians managed it.

    Build the layout of a suburb. Trains, gas, water, roads, even pubs built. Then sell plots, half a road at a time, to *different* developers.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,871
    edited October 12
    O/t but Australia's Women's cricket team are being put under the cosh by the Indians. India 137-0 off 23 overs. At this rate, well over 300 is on the cards!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,004
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Which is why as I pointed out in the first post of this thread - the Tories are headed for extinction... Since 2016 they've ignored their core vote to deliver Brexit regardless of everything else..
    The reason the Tories are heading for extinction has nothing to do with Brexit imo.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,722
    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Agreed. But you also need to attract new voters and expand your core. Especially with an otherwise ageing membership.,..
    Stamp duty cutting is a policy targeted at first time buyers and second time buyers especially in London and the South, not pensioners
    Read the speech again. Bit odd in that if they downsize they will have more than enough to pay the tax - but it messes with message.

    "Pensioners who want to downsize but can’t afford the thousands of pounds they have to pay in tax."
    Most pensioners don't want to downsize though and as you say if they do they will have enough to pay for it.

    As I said it was targeted at first time and second time buyers in London and the South
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,186

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
    The toll might be part of the reason there isn't gridlock. Could probably make an argument that some tolls boost the economy by stripping out some of the less economically viable traffic, opening up the roads for the firms that depend on them.

    I'm pretty convinced this is true about the Edinburgh bypass. It's a really handy way to get from the east of the city to the business parks in the west - much better than the two buses/trams alternative because the marginal cost of driving is so low. But it also means that the freight trying to move from the NE of England in towards Glasgow/the Highlands gets caught up in commuter traffic.
    Edinburgh and Glasgow being great examples of what I am talking about. For me to head south I have two choices - Glasgow commuter traffic as I briefly enter the City of Glasgow on the M73, or Edinburgh commuter traffic as I enter the City of Edinburgh on the A720.

    The "M7 Fastlink" scheme long cancelled. Company builds a motorway from the M74 at Abington, crossing the M8 to the M9 at Grangemouth. Charges a toll, but it opens up traffic flow through the central belt, unjamming parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh commuter networks.

    Personally I'd build it in the public sector - my proposal is a StateCo road construction business. But the Tories like private so have a consortium do it for profit. Whatever. At least we would build *something*. As opposed to nothing as we always seem to do.
    Why do you think this wouldn’t be subject to the Enquiry Industrial Complex? As leading lawyers from the sector put it, just other day, the right to an endless enquiry is a human right.
    Because I am proposing ideas for how the Tories could do the Vision Thing and become relevant again. And I wrote "easy planning clearance" - pass a law granting planning permission over the heads of local objections. And before anyone says "you can't do that" they already did with housing...
    Which would be a disaster as you cannot get new developments into place without local community involvement.

    You also only suggested it as you want Nimby voters still voting Tory to go to your Nimby LDs instead
    Nimbyism is very effective in local politics, and all parties do it.

    The reason is because by and large the Nimbys are correct. New developments bring traffic congestion, overcrowded schools, overcrowded GPs, loss of green spaces to walk or play and often environmental degradation such as flooding.

    The way to build more housing is to recognise the validity of these grievances. The infrastructure needs to be built first, and that requires more than the self interest of the big builders.
    Which goes back to how the Victorians managed it.

    Build the layout of a suburb. Trains, gas, water, roads, even pubs built. Then sell plots, half a road at a time, to *different* developers.
    All good, but it requires someone to put money upfront to do all that. It's money that going to have to be spent, the only difference is when.

    But spending money upfront? Anathema.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,004
    edited October 12

    I was at a 50th last night, a friend of the host who lives in Essex said he was going to have to vote Tory to keep Reform out... he wasn't happy about it though!

    Would there be much point if Jenrick Tories are indistinguishable from Reform? We need the non-Jenrick Tories to prevail.
    He said his current Tory MP is okay as Tories go, can't remember his name, the area is Brentford I think.
    He's probably talking about Alex Burghart MP for Brentwood.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,871
    Andy_JS said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Which is why as I pointed out in the first post of this thread - the Tories are headed for extinction... Since 2016 they've ignored their core vote to deliver Brexit regardless of everything else..
    The reason the Tories are heading for extinction has nothing to do with Brexit imo.
    Not nothing to do with Brexit, imho. Brexit is part of their awful heritage.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,531

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
    The toll might be part of the reason there isn't gridlock. Could probably make an argument that some tolls boost the economy by stripping out some of the less economically viable traffic, opening up the roads for the firms that depend on them.

    I'm pretty convinced this is true about the Edinburgh bypass. It's a really handy way to get from the east of the city to the business parks in the west - much better than the two buses/trams alternative because the marginal cost of driving is so low. But it also means that the freight trying to move from the NE of England in towards Glasgow/the Highlands gets caught up in commuter traffic.
    Edinburgh and Glasgow being great examples of what I am talking about. For me to head south I have two choices - Glasgow commuter traffic as I briefly enter the City of Glasgow on the M73, or Edinburgh commuter traffic as I enter the City of Edinburgh on the A720.

    The "M7 Fastlink" scheme long cancelled. Company builds a motorway from the M74 at Abington, crossing the M8 to the M9 at Grangemouth. Charges a toll, but it opens up traffic flow through the central belt, unjamming parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh commuter networks.

    Personally I'd build it in the public sector - my proposal is a StateCo road construction business. But the Tories like private so have a consortium do it for profit. Whatever. At least we would build *something*. As opposed to nothing as we always seem to do.
    Why do you think this wouldn’t be subject to the Enquiry Industrial Complex? As leading lawyers from the sector put it, just other day, the right to an endless enquiry is a human right.
    Because I am proposing ideas for how the Tories could do the Vision Thing and become relevant again. And I wrote "easy planning clearance" - pass a law granting planning permission over the heads of local objections. And before anyone says "you can't do that" they already did with housing...
    Which would be a disaster as you cannot get new developments into place without local community involvement.

    You also only suggested it as you want Nimby voters still voting Tory to go to your Nimby LDs instead
    Nimbyism is very effective in local politics, and all parties do it.

    The reason is because by and large the Nimbys are correct. New developments bring traffic congestion, overcrowded schools, overcrowded GPs, loss of green spaces to walk or play and often environmental degradation such as flooding.

    The way to build more housing is to recognise the validity of these grievances. The infrastructure needs to be built first, and that requires more than the self interest of the big builders.
    Which goes back to how the Victorians managed it.

    Build the layout of a suburb. Trains, gas, water, roads, even pubs built. Then sell plots, half a road at a time, to *different* developers.
    All good, but it requires someone to put money upfront to do all that. It's money that going to have to be spent, the only difference is when.

    But spending money upfront? Anathema.
    Which is why Poundbry and its siblings happened.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,722
    edited October 12

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Which is why as I pointed out in the first post of this thread - the Tories are headed for extinction... Since 2016 they've ignored their core vote to deliver Brexit regardless of everything else..
    Their core vote voted for Brexit it was dumping Brexit delivering Boris that saw the resurgence of Farage in the first place. He had only been put back in his box after Boris became PM, before Farage and his Brexit Party had surged in the polls as the Tories failed to get Brexit done
    Depends what you count as their core vote.

    The old Conservative core, people doing well but tolerating just enough social reform as was needed to stave off revolution, weren't particularly keen on Brexit.

    The new Conservative core, greedy old people, were far keener on it, because they saw it as another money flow that should be diverted to them.

    The Conservatives aren't the only ones with that confusion. Labour's actual core is early middle-aged graduates working in services or the public sector
    professions. But the party are
    still haunted by horny-handed
    sons of toil. They are way less
    numerous than they were, and
    the horny-handed retirees of toil
    have been lost to Farage.

    (Reform also have a confusion
    between stout yeomen in the
    red wall and a slightly different
    subset of pensioners to the
    Conservatives, but somehow
    they square that circle. For now,
    anyway.)
    Most voters over 47 voted for
    Brexit, not just over 67 and a
    white working class 45 year old living in Stoke ie the type of voter Boris won was more likely to have voted Leave than an upper middle class 85 year old living in Surrey
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,871
    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Agreed. But you also need to attract new voters and expand your core. Especially with an otherwise ageing membership.,..
    Stamp duty cutting is a policy targeted at first time buyers and second time buyers especially in London and the South, not pensioners
    Read the speech again. Bit odd in that if they downsize they will have more than enough to pay the tax - but it messes with message.

    "Pensioners who want to downsize but can’t afford the thousands of pounds they have to pay in tax."
    Most pensioners don't want to downsize though and as you say if they do they will have enough to pay for it.

    As I said it was targeted at first time and second time buyers in London and the South
    As a pensioner who downsized I'm not sure you're right. Many of us recognise that the house in which we brought up our family is too big 'now'.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,044

    Lord, save us. Chatfishing is a word. Using ChatGPT to generate responses to girls for use in online dating apps.



    https://bsky.app/profile/youngvulgarian.marieleconte.com/post/3m2ydsiiw4s2r

    It's basically the plot of Cyrano, replaced by an AI.
    That didn't end well either.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,207

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
    The toll might be part of the reason there isn't gridlock. Could probably make an argument that some tolls boost the economy by stripping out some of the less economically viable traffic, opening up the roads for the firms that depend on them.

    I'm pretty convinced this is true about the Edinburgh bypass. It's a really handy way to get from the east of the city to the business parks in the west - much better than the two buses/trams alternative because the marginal cost of driving is so low. But it also means that the freight trying to move from the NE of England in towards Glasgow/the Highlands gets caught up in commuter traffic.
    Edinburgh and Glasgow being great examples of what I am talking about. For me to head south I have two choices - Glasgow commuter traffic as I briefly enter the City of Glasgow on the M73, or Edinburgh commuter traffic as I enter the City of Edinburgh on the A720.

    The "M7 Fastlink" scheme long cancelled. Company builds a motorway from the M74 at Abington, crossing the M8 to the M9 at Grangemouth. Charges a toll, but it opens up traffic flow through the central belt, unjamming parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh commuter networks.

    Personally I'd build it in the public sector - my proposal is a StateCo road construction business. But the Tories like private so have a consortium do it for profit. Whatever. At least we would build *something*. As opposed to nothing as we always seem to do.
    We have travelled from Llandudno to Lossiemouth countless times and use the M6, M74, then to Perth, A9 to Aviemore, then on to Elgin and Lossiemouth
    .
    Occasionally we have gone via Edinburgh and the M90 but the first route is our preferred choice

    The lack of dualling the A9 to Inverness is disgraceful and it remains one of the most dangerous roads in UK
    If the Greens hadn’t been invited into government by Sturgeon, dualling the A9 would have progressed a lot quicker. Urban metropolitans don’t regularly cycle to Inverness, so it wasn’t a priority.
    The Greens apparently killed off progress in dualling the A96 (Inverness to Aberdeen). Which is not so great if you are being ambulanced from Elgin to Aberdeen (65 miles) along a swooping trunk road, stopping at laybys to be sick or give birth.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,044

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    Tories are fiddling around the edges - same as Labour. And performative "we'll cut the civil service" - because *everyone* knows there's an army of penpushers - without being about to specify whom.

    An idea: the Big Picture. Tories say "our national debt is grotesque. It's built over decades, including under our watch. A system which we now need to change. So we're going to make significant cuts"

    A starter for 10. Our road network is shagged, the bits we do cost £stupid. Why don't the Tories propose private toll motorways? Easy planning clearance for companies who want to build tolled bypasses of the worst bits. We get new stuff without paying for it, it's pay and play for users.

    I would imagine because if they did they would get abuse from Labour and the Lib Dem’s for pricing out ordinary working people from road travel, then there would be some attacks for whoever they choose to run the scheme as inevitably there will be someone at the top of the sort of company who can do it who knows a senior Tory and finally the Lib Dem’s would be campaigning on a local level against building the toll stations in their constituencies even where it might be the essential or best space to make this work.

    Yesterday you were talking about cross party consensus on things that need to be done but you know full well that consensus would only be ok if it’s an area one approves of.
    They should call the new toll roads “autoroutes”, the toll booths “peages” and promise some nice “aires” operated by Autogrill along the way.

    Interestingly the Mayor of London has shown that with a bit of confidence you can push through major projects in the face of opposition with long term positive results. We all know about ULEZ (see last week’s good news on NO2 readings in London), but who outside the capital has even heard about the tolling of the Blackwall and Silvertown crossings?

    The GLA has managed to get the Silvertown tunnel built and turned it and the previously free Blackwall into toll tunnels. You’d think the outcry would be deafening. But aside from a few half hearted local campaigns it’s been met with a shrug. And the promised traffic gridlock on both sides of the river has failed to materialise.
    The toll might be part of the reason there isn't gridlock. Could probably make an argument that some tolls boost the economy by stripping out some of the less economically viable traffic, opening up the roads for the firms that depend on them.

    I'm pretty convinced this is true about the Edinburgh bypass. It's a really handy way to get from the east of the city to the business parks in the west - much better than the two buses/trams alternative because the marginal cost of driving is so low. But it also means that the freight trying to move from the NE of England in towards Glasgow/the Highlands gets caught up in commuter traffic.
    Edinburgh and Glasgow being great examples of what I am talking about. For me to head south I have two choices - Glasgow commuter traffic as I briefly enter the City of Glasgow on the M73, or Edinburgh commuter traffic as I enter the City of Edinburgh on the A720.

    The "M7 Fastlink" scheme long cancelled. Company builds a motorway from the M74 at Abington, crossing the M8 to the M9 at Grangemouth. Charges a toll, but it opens up traffic flow through the central belt, unjamming parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh commuter networks.

    Personally I'd build it in the public sector - my proposal is a StateCo road construction business. But the Tories like private so have a consortium do it for profit. Whatever. At least we would build *something*. As opposed to nothing as we always seem to do.
    We have travelled from Llandudno to Lossiemouth countless times and use the M6, M74, then to Perth, A9 to Aviemore, then on to Elgin and Lossiemouth
    .
    Occasionally we have gone via Edinburgh and the M90 but the first route is our preferred choice

    The lack of dualling the A9 to Inverness is disgraceful and it remains one of the most dangerous roads in UK
    If the Greens hadn’t been invited into government by Sturgeon, dualling the A9 would have progressed a lot quicker. Urban metropolitans don’t regularly cycle to Inverness, so it wasn’t a priority.
    The Greens apparently killed off progress in dualling the A96 (Inverness to Aberdeen). Which is not so great if you are being ambulanced from Elgin to Aberdeen (65 miles) along a swooping trunk road, stopping at laybys to be sick or give birth.
    Consistent with their fairly ridiculous approach to policy.
  • HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Which is why as I pointed out in the first post of this thread - the Tories are headed for extinction... Since 2016 they've ignored their core vote to deliver Brexit regardless of everything else..
    Their core vote voted for Brexit it was dumping Brexit delivering Boris that saw the resurgence of Farage in the first place. He had only been put back in his box after Boris became PM, before Farage and his Brexit Party had surged in the polls as the Tories failed to get Brexit done
    Boris dumped Boris all by himself

    You and Nadine share a devotion to a leader who self destructed
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,061
    edited October 12

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Kemi can translate her 23% approval rating back to a 23% Conservative voteshare that would be almost back to 2024 general election Conservative vote levels.

    Whereas if Ed Davey can get his 22% approval to a 22% Liberal Democrat vote share that will mean a 5% swing from the Conservatives and further Conservative losses.
    Not if most of those gains to get to 22% come from Labour, which would boost the Tories in Labour held seats the Tories were second last year
    Has the voter* already forgotten who crashed the nation?

    * Not just PB Tories.
    You mean covid and the war in Ukraine obviously
    See! You've forgotten Brexit, Boris Johnson and the Truss budget already.

    Very convenient.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,061

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    This is one of the bigger stories that hasn't perhaps got the coverage it deserves: Reform can't find those big efficiency savings they promised, so are having to push up council tax rates:

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/reform-council-tax-hikes-lower-tax-farage-5HjdFDg_2/

    A useful political slogan:

    REFORM WILL PUT UP YOUR COUNCIL TAX
    ...AND CUT SERVICE PROVISION TO THE BONE AND BEYOND.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Agreed. But you also need to attract new voters and expand your core. Especially with an otherwise ageing membership.,..
    Stamp duty cutting is a policy targeted at first time buyers and second time buyers especially in London and the South, not pensioners
    Do you ever get things right ?

    First time buyers are exempt upto £300,000

    This is a policy that eases mobility in the markets and is widely supported by think tanks

    You need to understand the policy will be welcomed by all buyers, other than those in Scotland and Wales which presently will retain it, and not just London and the south
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,061

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Which is why as I pointed out in the first post of this thread - the Tories are headed for extinction... Since 2016 they've ignored their core vote to deliver Brexit regardless of everything else..
    Their core vote voted for Brexit it was dumping Brexit delivering Boris that saw the resurgence of Farage in the first place. He had only been put back in his box after Boris became PM, before Farage and his Brexit Party had surged in the polls as the Tories failed to get Brexit done
    Boris dumped Boris all by himself

    You and Nadine share a devotion to a leader who self destructed
    Hasn't she crossed over to the dark side?
  • HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Agreed. But you also need to attract new voters and expand your core. Especially with an otherwise ageing membership.,..
    Stamp duty cutting is a policy targeted at first time buyers and second time buyers especially in London and the South, not pensioners
    Read the speech again. Bit odd in that if they downsize they will have more than enough to pay the tax - but it messes with message.

    "Pensioners who want to downsize but can’t afford the thousands of pounds they have to pay in tax."
    Most pensioners don't want to downsize though and as you say if they do they will have enough to pay for it.

    As I said it was targeted at first time and second time buyers in London and the South
    No it was not
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,390

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    This is one of the bigger stories that hasn't perhaps got the coverage it deserves: Reform can't find those big efficiency savings they promised, so are having to push up council tax rates:

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/reform-council-tax-hikes-lower-tax-farage-5HjdFDg_2/

    A useful political slogan:

    REFORM WILL PUT UP YOUR COUNCIL TAX
    Reform are as fiscally incontinent as Labour
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,390
    Andy_JS said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Which is why as I pointed out in the first post of this thread - the Tories are headed for extinction... Since 2016 they've ignored their core vote to deliver Brexit regardless of everything else..
    The reason the Tories are heading for extinction has nothing to do with Brexit imo.
    Indeed, but they want that to be true - so badly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,492
    Green shoots are easily trodden on.
  • HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    London has all out elections next year most of England doesn't. Reform do worst in London and the Stamp Duty cut will go down well there.

    Scotland and Wales have elections too but while Reform will do well in Wales they are unlikely to do as well in Scotland
    Yes, the problem is these are local council elections and the last time I looked it wasn't Newham or Bromley or Richmond Councils who set the stamp duty rate. There's also the other small problem a) Labour might shoot the Conservatie fox and abolish Stamp Duty themselves and b) even if they don't, the implementation of the Stamp Duty abolition might not be until 2029 so why should people vote for a party promising something they have no power to enact for another three years?

    Spurious logic at best.

    Worth remembering you can still get a starter property in parts of London for under £300k which is the threshold for the levying of stamp duty on purchases for first time buyers. For example, there are one bedroom flats in East Ham and Beckton available for £200-£250k (10 years ago, they were barely £100k which tells you a lot).

    I'd also add a lot of first time buyers in London are looking for rental property and anecdotally I think we are seeing some demographic and ethnic changes in my part of the world as a result of the new developments of leasehold flats going up in Barking and Ilford.

    Just a question about the Badenoch proposal - is it only on the purchase of primary residences? I assume so but of course that won't stop those wishing to accumulate property buying them in the name of relatives etc.
    Labour are of course whacking
    up taxes further in their Budget this autumn not cutting them.
    East Ham and Barking never elect Tory councillors anyway, it is voters in areas like Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Richmond upon Thames Kemi will have targeted with her Stamp Duty cut and yes it is focused on primary residences
    Why do you only ever look at policies for their political benefit, rather than what’s good for the country? Maybe that’s part of our national malaise.
    Any party which ignores its own core vote and does not put its people first is doomed to extinction
    Which is why as I pointed out in the first post of this thread - the Tories are headed for extinction... Since 2016 they've ignored their core vote to deliver Brexit regardless of everything else..
    Their core vote voted for Brexit it was dumping Brexit delivering Boris that saw the resurgence of Farage in the first place. He had only been put back in his box after Boris became PM, before Farage and his Brexit Party had surged in the polls as the Tories failed to get Brexit done
    Boris dumped Boris all by himself

    You and Nadine share a devotion to a leader who self destructed
    Hasn't she crossed over to the dark side?
    Apparently - she was on the panel on Kuenssberg this am
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,492

    eek said:

    In May 2026, if the Tories get pummelled, but Labour gets eviscerated, will that give Kemi more breathing space?

    The issue in May is how the Conservatives do against Reform. If there is some evidence that Reform is stalling against the Tories but making headway still against Labour, the Conservative Party should give her another year.

    How would you identify that - reality is the Tories are going to lose a pile of seats (most of them) and reform are going to win a whole lot of councils..

    The only upside is that our local elections are in 2027 by which time it should be obvious that Reforms local authority management isn't exactly improving things elsewhere,
    This is one of the bigger stories that hasn't perhaps got the coverage it deserves: Reform can't find those big efficiency savings they promised, so are having to push up council tax rates:

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/reform-council-tax-hikes-lower-tax-farage-5HjdFDg_2/

    A useful political slogan:

    REFORM WILL PUT UP YOUR COUNCIL TAX
    Reform are as fiscally incontinent as Labour
    Fiscal incontinence doesn't seem to hinder a party's prospects.
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