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Will this impact Reform’s chances in the Senedd? – politicalbetting.com

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  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,443
    BBC News just reporting that the government will underwrite a 1.5 billion loan guarantee to JLR .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgl15ykerlro
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,367

    Always made me chuckle that in several provinces in Canada where state regulates alcohol sales, you have to get your beer from.....The Beer Store.....must have taken them ages to come up with that name.

    And in the US the rest is available from the Wine and Spirit Shoppe
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,054
    edited September 27
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    To be fair, these days there is lots of very good American beer, its just those German's / Poles / Czechs that went to the US 150 years ago were clearly brewers who were too shit to make in Europe and that is what became the established brands.
    American beer is much like American food ingredients.

    The mass market stuff is hideous. There is good quality stuff, but it is hard to find and rather expensive.
    Its really not hard to find good beer now in the US, it is everywhere. But yes it is more expensive. But that is also true in the UK now.
    It’s not even that pricey. In the last two years - 23 and 24 - I’ve done two long American road trips. One through the Deep South from Nashville to Nawlins, one from Cincinnati to DC and back. A magnificent loop

    On both trips I went off the beaten track yet also went to major cities. There was great beer everywhere. It became my go-to in the heat (I’m not normally a massive beer drinker, but the quality was so high)

    And I didn’t find it pricey. I found everything ELSE pricey. From wine to burgers to hotels (when I was paying). America is frickin expensive for a European
    It's because the US has a huge number of microbreweries that sell small batches locally. It's very rare to find a place that doesn't have three or four breweries that are selling within the locale. America really was at the forefront of the beer revolution.
    I read somewhere though they are starting to struggle though as Generation Sober / Stoned have come along.

    I think the craft beer also worked in US because it goes perfectly with pizza and they are also obsessed with high quality craft pizzas. Every small town seemed to have a really good pizza place where you can get the local craft beers to go along with them.
  • nico67 said:

    BBC News just reporting that the government will underwrite a 1.5 billion loan guarantee to JLR .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgl15ykerlro

    Before you know it we will be talking about some serious money....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,627

    "Ben Franklin owned slaves, he can pipe down when it comes to the liberty of human beings."
    But he changed his mind on the subject, before he said that:

    At some points in his life, he owned slaves and ran "for sale" ads for slaves in his newspaper, but by the late 1750s, he began arguing against slavery, became an active abolitionist, and promoted the education and integration of African Americans into U.S. society.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin

    (Many in the West condemn Western slavery -- in the past -- but are indifferent to non-Western slavery in the present. I suppose many feel that, if they condemned modern slavery in, for example, the Laogai or Mauritania, they would have to do something about it.)

    It was my understanding too, that Franklin had turned against slavery, an intellectual journey that many took in the late 18th century.

    My impression is that the Founding Fathers expected the institution to wither away, rather than to massively expand, in the South.

    Though that can’t be said to exonerate a man like Jefferson, who said frequently that the institution was wrong, but who freed almost none of his slaves, because they provided him with his opulent lifestyle.

    Now that any economic case for slavery has been long debunked, one has to conclude that people who own slaves today do so because they enjoy it.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,069
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    People are sick of the "process state". That's why Farage is heading for no 10.

    People won't like it better when it is a process-free state, with Farage signing off executive orders like a down market Trump.
    The point is that the modern Process State is straight out of James Burnham.

    Its priority is the process, the people are fodder to be fed to it. It is inhumane in the deepest sense.

    The latest idea, to commoditise The Headcount and sell their lives to Peter Thiel, is more of the same.

    Reform being a shower of shit and not the answer, doesn’t change that.
    I know its a bit of an obsession of yours, but what is the alternative to a state that follows a process?

    It seems to me the alternative is a state that makes capricious decisions, without a process. It sounds like a recipie for corruption and cronyism, with politicians bunging contracts to their mates, over-riding legal objections and arbitrary actions. In short it sounds like tyranny.
    Process is important. But not as important as doing the right thing. If the process gets in the way of the right thing then it is flawed and should be amended.

    For example: the delays to paying out compensation where the state has been found to have failed (blood infections; post office).
    Sure, but that is just about adjusting the process, not getting rid of it.

    Of course process should be democratically accountable, and compliant with the law. So it is perfectly within the remit of a process state to pay out over the Post Office and blood scandals. The problem is that the government (and previous ones) haven't budgeted the funds, not that the system is unwilling.
    I think it’s a definitional issue.

    A well run state has processes. A “process state” is a state in which the process is all that matters.

    “The government hadn’t budgeted for it” is a fucking pathetic excuse. I thought better of you @Foxy. Setting aside the fact that contingency funds are included in budgets to deal with stuff like this, the state has been found guilty by courts and instructed to pay compensation to citizens that it has harmed. It should do so quickly and efficiently.
    @Foxy is a senior official at The Circumlocution Office, it seems.

    Fun fact - the Post Office has paid promptly all the severance packages and pension of the senior managers who resigned because they were criminals.

    They adamantly oppose the compensation payments, of course.
    So far a billion pounds has been paid out to postmasters. Obviously more is due, as it is with the blood scandal, but the money has to be found first.
    The money is there. £1bn is nothing in the scheme of government borrowing. You are making excuses
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,309
    bobbob said:

    nico67 said:

    BBC News just reporting that the government will underwrite a 1.5 billion loan guarantee to JLR .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgl15ykerlro

    Why is the uk giving a loan to an indian owned company ? Why can’t tata give them the loan?
    Because the aim is to safeguard jobs here.
  • Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    Two million sigs within the next minute or two…..

    It's a good job Starmer is very popular in general and built up a lot of good will for such a controversial policy.
    Why do so many on the right spend such a tedious amount of time competing with each other to say how much they loathe Keir Starmer? Only someone coming onto the site for the first time will have avoided the same posters saying the same thing using the same words literally dozens of times before. Most just log out as I do. Life is too short to be dragged down your rabbit holes reading the same tedium day after day after day after day

    My question is this. Is it just a lack of creativity and imagination or do you think you are iactually nfluencing people?...
    I recall your homilies on the negative reviews of May, Boris, Truss & Sunak, here.

    Actually, I don’t.

    Starmer isn't doing very well. He has been a grave disappointment. He is continuity Sunak and the inertia is frustrating. Nonetheless there is a breed of Conservative commentator both on here and in the wider media (particularly from the Daily Telegraph) that cannot fathom they lost the last election and the treachery of the man who beat them, and who called out the great Boris Johnson for the Charlatan he is, deserves to be vilified.

    Many of those on here beating up on Starmer are the very same posters who were convinced Boris Johnson "got all the big calls right" and Liz Truss delivered the "most Conservative budget since 1986".

    So on Ryder Cup weekend, Labour voter and interior designer Leon tees Starmer up for certain PB posters to slice, shank and hook into the rough.
    You aren't taking this very well but the reality is Starmer and Reeves are tanking in the polls and across all the media including those you would expect to be more loyal

    It is not a far right conspiracy that sees Starmer as worst PM, even losing to Truss, and the polls are terrible

    Add in the civil war breaking out in labour, it is difficult to understand how far and fast they have fallen since Juiy 2024

    Starmer may hang on, but he is approaching the point of no return
    Someone else who commented on my post without reading it.
    I read all your posts and try to be constructive but you are clearly trying to deflect, or maybe even in denial, to what is happening in labour

    I sympathise as it was very much the narrative that did for the conservatives
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,188
    Leon said:

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    To be fair, these days there is lots of very good American beer, its just those German's / Poles / Czechs that went to the US 150 years ago were clearly brewers who were too shit to make in Europe and that is what became the established brands.
    American beer is much like American food ingredients.

    The mass market stuff is hideous. There is good quality stuff, but it is hard to find and rather expensive.
    This is utter fucking nonsense. When were you last in America? Even a small town wal mart, even a rural gas station, will - in the USA - have a better choice of beer than the equivalent anywhere else in the world
    The US beer has definitely improved a huge amount, but you are way over the top comparing it to anywhere in the world. That is nonsense. Cask beer is very, very rare still. Beer is nearly always cold and fizzy, which is ok if you are hot. As far as the good stuff is concerned there is a repetition of flavours across breweries.

    I have done a number of tours of breweries in the States. It is a hobby of mine. Most have a range of nice beers, but they are very much the same from one brewery to the next. Although cask beer is available, I have never found it.

    I have never found a US beer that can match say Surrey Hills or Adnams or if you like that type of beer, Belgium beer.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,493
    bobbob said:

    nico67 said:

    BBC News just reporting that the government will underwrite a 1.5 billion loan guarantee to JLR .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgl15ykerlro

    Why is the uk giving a loan to an indian owned company ? Why can’t tata give them the loan?
    Presumably this is so that JLR can support their supply chain and its easier for the government to rely on JLR to do that rather than trying to deal with a large number of companies. I think this is probably the right thing to do. We cannot lose more manufacturing.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,443
    edited September 27
    bobbob said:

    nico67 said:

    BBC News just reporting that the government will underwrite a 1.5 billion loan guarantee to JLR .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgl15ykerlro

    Why is the uk giving a loan to an indian owned company ? Why can’t tata give them the loan?
    Well JLR are supposed to pay backlog payments to the suppliers out of that . The issue isn’t so much JLR but its supply chain .
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,700

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    To be fair, these days there is lots of very good American beer, its just those German's / Poles / Czechs that went to the US 150 years ago were clearly brewers who were too shit to make in Europe and that is what became the established brands.
    American beer is much like American food ingredients.

    The mass market stuff is hideous. There is good quality stuff, but it is hard to find and rather expensive.
    Its really not hard to find good beer now in the US, it is everywhere. But yes it is more expensive. But that is also true in the UK now.
    It’s not even that pricey. In the last two years - 23 and 24 - I’ve done two long American road trips. One through the Deep South from Nashville to Nawlins, one from Cincinnati to DC and back. A magnificent loop

    On both trips I went off the beaten track yet also went to major cities. There was great beer everywhere. It became my go-to in the heat (I’m not normally a massive beer drinker, but the quality was so high)

    And I didn’t find it pricey. I found everything ELSE pricey. From wine to burgers to hotels (when I was paying). America is frickin expensive for a European
    It's because the US has a huge number of microbreweries that sell small batches locally. It's very rare to find a place that doesn't have three or four breweries that are selling within the locale. America really was at the forefront of the beer revolution.
    I read somewhere though they are starting to struggle though as Generation Sober / Stoned have come along.

    I think the craft beer also worked in US because it goes perfectly with pizza and they are also obsessed with high quality craft pizzas. Every small town seemed to have a really good pizza place where you can get the local craft beers to go along with them.
    Ah, but kids are boozin again. It must be true coz the Telegraph says it is

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/23/hurrah-the-roaring-nineties-are-back/
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,290
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    I think PB is agreed that Starmer is a goner, and will go, and has to go, or Labour has no chance

    What, then, is the optimum timing? For his party? 2026 or 2027? 2028 is surely too late, there might actually be a GE. 2027 is cutting it fine to establish a new persona and a new direction (if such a thing is possible)

    2026 it is. To my mind. After the spring elex, of course - which will be suitably dire for Lab

    If he doesn't want to go he will be very hard to budge as a sitting PM. I think we're so used to the Tories and the very low bar they have to remove a leader that people are underestimating how hard it will be to remove Starmer. I think the plotters will have to force Reeves out first.
    The plotters need to concentrate on what they will do differently after defenestrating Starmer.

    This will give them something to rally around, which will help to make a coup happen, and it will mean they have some purpose when the deed is done. Otherwise they'll end up in the same mess just with a different figurehead.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,054
    edited September 27
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    To be fair, these days there is lots of very good American beer, its just those German's / Poles / Czechs that went to the US 150 years ago were clearly brewers who were too shit to make in Europe and that is what became the established brands.
    American beer is much like American food ingredients.

    The mass market stuff is hideous. There is good quality stuff, but it is hard to find and rather expensive.
    Its really not hard to find good beer now in the US, it is everywhere. But yes it is more expensive. But that is also true in the UK now.
    It’s not even that pricey. In the last two years - 23 and 24 - I’ve done two long American road trips. One through the Deep South from Nashville to Nawlins, one from Cincinnati to DC and back. A magnificent loop

    On both trips I went off the beaten track yet also went to major cities. There was great beer everywhere. It became my go-to in the heat (I’m not normally a massive beer drinker, but the quality was so high)

    And I didn’t find it pricey. I found everything ELSE pricey. From wine to burgers to hotels (when I was paying). America is frickin expensive for a European
    It's because the US has a huge number of microbreweries that sell small batches locally. It's very rare to find a place that doesn't have three or four breweries that are selling within the locale. America really was at the forefront of the beer revolution.
    I read somewhere though they are starting to struggle though as Generation Sober / Stoned have come along.

    I think the craft beer also worked in US because it goes perfectly with pizza and they are also obsessed with high quality craft pizzas. Every small town seemed to have a really good pizza place where you can get the local craft beers to go along with them.
    Ah, but kids are boozin again. It must be true coz the Telegraph says it is

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/23/hurrah-the-roaring-nineties-are-back/
    Not in the US they aren't. I don't have time at the mo, but I saw a boring business video the other week all about this very topic.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,290
    Leon said:

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    You’re a teetotaller, and it shows

    These days, America probably boasts the best and most varied beer in the world. You can walk into any shop, gas station, supermarket - and find quality beer - with a diversity you just don’t get in Europe
    My impression is that beer in Britain peaked in around 2018, and since then the diversity has declined markedly.

    I don't know what happened, whether drinking habits changed, or there was a tax change, or if it was a shakeout after a bit of bubble growth, but I found it very disappointing.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    To be fair, these days there is lots of very good American beer, its just those German's / Poles / Czechs that went to the US 150 years ago were clearly brewers who were too shit to make in Europe and that is what became the established brands.
    No, it was prohibition that did in American brewing. When beer came back it was tasteless fizz from Anheuser-Busch.

    Sure, it is possible to buy craft ales now, even in places like Salt Lake City where I was in the spring of this year, but it is a tiny share of the market.

    Here are the top ten U.S. beer brands by market share in four weeks ending July 6 2024, according to an analysis by Bump Williams Consulting.

    Modelo Especial (9.7%)
    Michelob Ultra (7.3%)
    Bud Light (6.5%)
    Corona Extra (5.8%)
    Coors Light (5.7%)
    Miller Lite (4.8%)
    Budweiser (2.9%)
    Busch Light (2.8%)
    Natural Light (1.8%)
    Miller High Life (1.0%)
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,854

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    To be fair, these days there is lots of very good American beer, its just those German's / Poles / Czechs that went to the US 150 years ago were clearly brewers who were too shit to make in Europe and that is what became the established brands.
    American beer is much like American food ingredients.

    The mass market stuff is hideous. There is good quality stuff, but it is hard to find and rather expensive.
    Its really not hard to find good beer now in the US, it is everywhere. But yes it is more expensive. But that is also true in the UK now.
    It’s not even that pricey. In the last two years - 23 and 24 - I’ve done two long American road trips. One through the Deep South from Nashville to Nawlins, one from Cincinnati to DC and back. A magnificent loop

    On both trips I went off the beaten track yet also went to major cities. There was great beer everywhere. It became my go-to in the heat (I’m not normally a massive beer drinker, but the quality was so high)

    And I didn’t find it pricey. I found everything ELSE pricey. From wine to burgers to hotels (when I was paying). America is frickin expensive for a European
    It's because the US has a huge number of microbreweries that sell small batches locally. It's very rare to find a place that doesn't have three or four breweries that are selling within the locale. America really was at the forefront of the beer revolution.
    I read somewhere though they are starting to struggle though as Generation Sober / Stoned have come along.

    I think the craft beer also worked in US because it goes perfectly with pizza and they are also obsessed with high quality craft pizzas. Every small town seemed to have a really good pizza place where you can get the local craft beers to go along with them.
    Mostly US craft beer is pretentious and silly and you end up with 8% giraffe flavoured witch pee. The US craft beer "revolution" is mostly uninteresting. Go around the beer festivals across the UK and the brews are not skull splittingly strong, taste decent and are massively tastier.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,527
    Sean F. said: "My impression is that the Founding Fathers expected the institution to wither away, rather than to massively expand, in the South."
    Some of the strongest evidence for that impression is in the Northwest Ordinance, specifically Article 6:
    There shall be neither slavery nor involuntary servitude in the said territory, otherwise than in the punishment of crimes whereof the party shall have been duly convicted: Provided, always, That any person escaping into the same, from whom labor or service is lawfully claimed in any one of the original States, such fugitive may be lawfully reclaimed and conveyed to the person claiming his or her labor or service as aforesaid.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Ordinance#Prohibition_of_slavery

    Passed in 1787, the ordinance banned slavery north of the Ohio River, in the area that became -- roughly -- the states of Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, and Wisconsin.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    edited September 27

    Leon said:

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    You’re a teetotaller, and it shows

    These days, America probably boasts the best and most varied beer in the world. You can walk into any shop, gas station, supermarket - and find quality beer - with a diversity you just don’t get in Europe
    My impression is that beer in Britain peaked in around 2018, and since then the diversity has declined markedly.

    I don't know what happened, whether drinking habits changed, or there was a tax change, or if it was a shakeout after a bit of bubble growth, but I found it very disappointing.
    I quite like a craft ale, but they do tend to be very over hopped, over strength and the brewers prone to give them weird extra flavours. Beer should taste of beer*, not pineapple etc.

    It has driven out real ale from the pumps, and increasingly are brands from the big brewers rather than independents.. I note that the "fun with flags" marchers were all swilling Stella, so not really interested in British culture.

    * I make an exception for Brewdogs Hazy Jane Guava, which works surprisingly well.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,486
    MaxPB said:

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    To be fair, these days there is lots of very good American beer, its just those German's / Poles / Czechs that went to the US 150 years ago were clearly brewers who were too shit to make in Europe and that is what became the established brands.
    American beer is much like American food ingredients.

    The mass market stuff is hideous. There is good quality stuff, but it is hard to find and rather expensive.
    It's not hard to find or expensive, the US is littered with microbreweries that sell to local shops. The craft beer revolution started in America a solid ten years before it came here and twenty before it got to the rest of Europe.
    I agree on that history and think American craft beer is great, but I actually prefer the UK's interpretation of the craft beer revolution. Or at least the mix of good beers you can get here if you try.

    - In the US, craft beer is heavily biased towards 6%+ ABV. Which can be extremely nice. But often you can be in the mood for something lighter.

    - In contrast, we have many very good draft breweries with signature beers between 4-6%, which in my view is the sweet spot for a pint on most occasions.

    - We also have the benefit of our cask ale history and access to quality Czech/German/Belgian beers that haven't been bastardised too much.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,486
    IanB2 said:

    Two million sigs within the next minute or two…..

    PS I'm claiming credit for calling that this would be reached at around 9pm four hours earlier and apparently being correct within a couple of minutes...
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,188
    Cicero said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    To be fair, these days there is lots of very good American beer, its just those German's / Poles / Czechs that went to the US 150 years ago were clearly brewers who were too shit to make in Europe and that is what became the established brands.
    American beer is much like American food ingredients.

    The mass market stuff is hideous. There is good quality stuff, but it is hard to find and rather expensive.
    Its really not hard to find good beer now in the US, it is everywhere. But yes it is more expensive. But that is also true in the UK now.
    It’s not even that pricey. In the last two years - 23 and 24 - I’ve done two long American road trips. One through the Deep South from Nashville to Nawlins, one from Cincinnati to DC and back. A magnificent loop

    On both trips I went off the beaten track yet also went to major cities. There was great beer everywhere. It became my go-to in the heat (I’m not normally a massive beer drinker, but the quality was so high)

    And I didn’t find it pricey. I found everything ELSE pricey. From wine to burgers to hotels (when I was paying). America is frickin expensive for a European
    It's because the US has a huge number of microbreweries that sell small batches locally. It's very rare to find a place that doesn't have three or four breweries that are selling within the locale. America really was at the forefront of the beer revolution.
    I read somewhere though they are starting to struggle though as Generation Sober / Stoned have come along.

    I think the craft beer also worked in US because it goes perfectly with pizza and they are also obsessed with high quality craft pizzas. Every small town seemed to have a really good pizza place where you can get the local craft beers to go along with them.
    Mostly US craft beer is pretentious and silly and you end up with 8% giraffe flavoured witch pee. The US craft beer "revolution" is mostly uninteresting. Go around the beer festivals across the UK and the brews are not skull splittingly strong, taste decent and are massively tastier.
    In two different breweries in the States (in the last 2 years) I was given beer with the rim of the beer glass dipped in cinnamon sugar. Someone needs shooting.

    Each brewery produced about 5 different distinct brews, but they were often very similar to the other breweries brews.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,663
    Can Comey sue Trump for defamation? I am reading some remarkable comments from Truth Social.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,493
    My son's girlfriend applied to All Souls this year. One of the questions was, "this is a reverse Turing test: convince the reader you are not an AI".

    Best answer aware of is 2 words: "kill yourself."
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,778
    Cicero said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    To be fair, these days there is lots of very good American beer, its just those German's / Poles / Czechs that went to the US 150 years ago were clearly brewers who were too shit to make in Europe and that is what became the established brands.
    American beer is much like American food ingredients.

    The mass market stuff is hideous. There is good quality stuff, but it is hard to find and rather expensive.
    Its really not hard to find good beer now in the US, it is everywhere. But yes it is more expensive. But that is also true in the UK now.
    It’s not even that pricey. In the last two years - 23 and 24 - I’ve done two long American road trips. One through the Deep South from Nashville to Nawlins, one from Cincinnati to DC and back. A magnificent loop

    On both trips I went off the beaten track yet also went to major cities. There was great beer everywhere. It became my go-to in the heat (I’m not normally a massive beer drinker, but the quality was so high)

    And I didn’t find it pricey. I found everything ELSE pricey. From wine to burgers to hotels (when I was paying). America is frickin expensive for a European
    It's because the US has a huge number of microbreweries that sell small batches locally. It's very rare to find a place that doesn't have three or four breweries that are selling within the locale. America really was at the forefront of the beer revolution.
    I read somewhere though they are starting to struggle though as Generation Sober / Stoned have come along.

    I think the craft beer also worked in US because it goes perfectly with pizza and they are also obsessed with high quality craft pizzas. Every small town seemed to have a really good pizza place where you can get the local craft beers to go along with them.
    Mostly US craft beer is pretentious and silly and you end up with 8% giraffe flavoured witch pee. The US craft beer "revolution" is mostly uninteresting. Go around the beer festivals across the UK and the brews are not skull splittingly strong, taste decent and are massively tastier.
    Absolutely! Here’s the beer and cider lists for next weekend’s Ayrshire Real Ale Festival.
    https://www.ayrshirebeerfestival.co.uk/beer-list-2025/
    https://www.ayrshirebeerfestival.co.uk/cider-wine-bar/
  • USA 4.5 Europe 11.5

    Only 3 points tomorrow to win

    Are you watching Trump
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 109
    carnforth said:

    bobbob said:

    nico67 said:

    BBC News just reporting that the government will underwrite a 1.5 billion loan guarantee to JLR .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgl15ykerlro

    Why is the uk giving a loan to an indian owned company ? Why can’t tata give them the loan?
    Because the aim is to safeguard jobs here.
    DavidL said:

    bobbob said:

    nico67 said:

    BBC News just reporting that the government will underwrite a 1.5 billion loan guarantee to JLR .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgl15ykerlro

    Why is the uk giving a loan to an indian owned company ? Why can’t tata give them the loan?
    Presumably this is so that JLR can support their supply chain and its easier for the government to rely on JLR to do that rather than trying to deal with a large number of companies. I think this is probably the right thing to do. We cannot lose more manufacturing.
    And why can’t tata do that ?

    If nothing else why isn’t the government getting something back ? Surely this sort of guarantee has value and the govt is just giving it away to a foreign company for nothing ? Surely this is just a financial instrument they can be priced like any other which could be paid in equity ?

    I notice the monoparty have all agreed
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,725

    USA 4.5 Europe 11.5

    Only 3 points tomorrow to win

    Are you watching Trump

    Still a lot of work to do. It was critical we won that last game to stop USA having the momentum like we had in 2012

    Let's hope we can do it tomorrow! 👍
  • TresTres Posts: 3,097
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    To be fair, these days there is lots of very good American beer, its just those German's / Poles / Czechs that went to the US 150 years ago were clearly brewers who were too shit to make in Europe and that is what became the established brands.
    American beer is much like American food ingredients.

    The mass market stuff is hideous. There is good quality stuff, but it is hard to find and rather expensive.
    Its really not hard to find good beer now in the US, it is everywhere. But yes it is more expensive. But that is also true in the UK now.
    It’s not even that pricey. In the last two years - 23 and 24 - I’ve done two long American road trips. One through the Deep South from Nashville to Nawlins, one from Cincinnati to DC and back. A magnificent loop

    On both trips I went off the beaten track yet also went to major cities. There was great beer everywhere. It became my go-to in the heat (I’m not normally a massive beer drinker, but the quality was so high)

    And I didn’t find it pricey. I found everything ELSE pricey. From wine to burgers to hotels (when I was paying). America is frickin expensive for a European
    It's because the US has a huge number of microbreweries that sell small batches locally. It's very rare to find a place that doesn't have three or four breweries that are selling within the locale. America really was at the forefront of the beer revolution.
    except they are all overhopped
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,290
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    You’re a teetotaller, and it shows

    These days, America probably boasts the best and most varied beer in the world. You can walk into any shop, gas station, supermarket - and find quality beer - with a diversity you just don’t get in Europe
    My impression is that beer in Britain peaked in around 2018, and since then the diversity has declined markedly.

    I don't know what happened, whether drinking habits changed, or there was a tax change, or if it was a shakeout after a bit of bubble growth, but I found it very disappointing.
    I quite like a craft ale, but they do tend to be very over hopped, over strength and the brewers prone to give them weird extra flavours. Beer should taste of beer*, not pineapple etc.

    It has driven out real ale from the pumps, and increasingly are brands from the big brewers rather than independents.. I note that the "fun with flags" marchers were all swilling Stella, so not really interested in British culture.

    * I make an exception for Brewdogs Hazy Jane Guava, which works surprisingly well.
    For me it's less that one type of beer is inherently better than another (my personal taste favours porter) but that the diversity has much reduced.

    It used to be that I'd go somewhere different and they would have new beers I hadn't seen elsewhere, and if there was more than one craft beer they would be quite different to each other.

    Maybe the market has converged on the one type of craft beer that is appealing to the widest range of people, but I think it's a shame.
  • USA 4.5 Europe 11.5

    Only 3 points tomorrow to win

    Are you watching Trump

    Still a lot of work to do. It was critical we won that last game to stop USA having the momentum like we had in 2012

    Let's hope we can do it tomorrow! 👍
    If they cannot win 3 of the 12 singles then they deserve to lose

    Not sure what the odds are
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,983
    carnforth said:

    bobbob said:

    nico67 said:

    BBC News just reporting that the government will underwrite a 1.5 billion loan guarantee to JLR .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgl15ykerlro

    Why is the uk giving a loan to an indian owned company ? Why can’t tata give them the loan?
    Because the aim is to safeguard jobs here.
    So nationalise it if that is the goal. Stop with this "socialize the losses, export the profits" gubbins.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,833
    Leon said:

    Sir Keir Starmer is the least popular prime minister on record, a poll has shown. Rachel Reeves is now also the least popular chancellor since records began, it found.

    Double Whammy.

    I still find it quite incredible how much the public dislike them.

    It's a unique collision involving

    1. Total incompetence

    2. Gross hypocrisy

    and

    3. (in Starmer's case) Outright treachery - he dislikes native Britons and does things that pointlessly hurt Britain - Chagos

    He's a dead man walking
    The public are far less patient than they used to be, which I'm not sure is a good thing in general. At one time they would have given any government at least 2 years to find their feet.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,663

    Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    Two million sigs within the next minute or two…..

    It's a good job Starmer is very popular in general and built up a lot of good will for such a controversial policy.
    Why do so many on the right spend such a tedious amount of time competing with each other to say how much they loathe Keir Starmer? Only someone coming onto the site for the first time will have avoided the same posters saying the same thing using the same words literally dozens of times before. Most just log out as I do. Life is too short to be dragged down your rabbit holes reading the same tedium day after day after day after day

    My question is this. Is it just a lack of creativity and imagination or do you think you are iactually nfluencing people?...
    I recall your homilies on the negative reviews of May, Boris, Truss & Sunak, here.

    Actually, I don’t.

    Starmer isn't doing very well. He has been a grave disappointment. He is continuity Sunak and the inertia is frustrating. Nonetheless there is a breed of Conservative commentator both on here and in the wider media (particularly from the Daily Telegraph) that cannot fathom they lost the last election and the treachery of the man who beat them, and who called out the great Boris Johnson for the Charlatan he is, deserves to be vilified.

    Many of those on here beating up on Starmer are the very same posters who were convinced Boris Johnson "got all the big calls right" and Liz Truss delivered the "most Conservative budget since 1986".

    So on Ryder Cup weekend, Labour voter and interior designer Leon tees Starmer up for certain PB posters to slice, shank and hook into the rough.
    You aren't taking this very well but the reality is Starmer and Reeves are tanking in the polls and across all the media including those you would expect to be more loyal

    It is not a far right conspiracy that sees Starmer as worst PM, even losing to Truss, and the polls are terrible

    Add in the civil war breaking out in labour, it is difficult to understand how far and fast they have fallen since Juiy 2024

    Starmer may hang on, but he is approaching the point of no return
    Someone else who commented on my post without reading it.
    I read all your posts and try to be constructive but you are clearly trying to deflect, or maybe even in denial, to what is happening in labour

    I sympathise as it was very much the narrative that did for the conservatives
    That post is wholly untrue. Your final paragraph is very patronising.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,423

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    You’re a teetotaller, and it shows

    These days, America probably boasts the best and most varied beer in the world. You can walk into any shop, gas station, supermarket - and find quality beer - with a diversity you just don’t get in Europe
    My impression is that beer in Britain peaked in around 2018, and since then the diversity has declined markedly.

    I don't know what happened, whether drinking habits changed, or there was a tax change, or if it was a shakeout after a bit of bubble growth, but I found it very disappointing.
    I quite like a craft ale, but they do tend to be very over hopped, over strength and the brewers prone to give them weird extra flavours. Beer should taste of beer*, not pineapple etc.

    It has driven out real ale from the pumps, and increasingly are brands from the big brewers rather than independents.. I note that the "fun with flags" marchers were all swilling Stella, so not really interested in British culture.

    * I make an exception for Brewdogs Hazy Jane Guava, which works surprisingly well.
    For me it's less that one type of beer is inherently better than another (my personal taste favours porter) but that the diversity has much reduced.

    It used to be that I'd go somewhere different and they would have new beers I hadn't seen elsewhere, and if there was more than one craft beer they would be quite different to each other.

    Maybe the market has converged on the one type of craft beer that is appealing to the widest range of people, but I think it's a shame.
    If you ever end up in Glasgow - get chatting to the owner of "The Wee Beer Shop". Proper beer geek. And get him talking about music - Pink Floyd, The Orb, Spiritualized, The Fall - anything even a little off the current mainstream. You'll probably get a few freebies.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,833
    Someone's pointed out that Starmer still has this on his twitter page.

    "Keir Starmer
    @Keir_Starmer

    The Government’s plans on voter ID risk locking people out of democracy.

    2:42 PM · Jul 29, 2020"

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1288469983857696769
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,423
    DavidL said:

    My son's girlfriend applied to All Souls this year. One of the questions was, "this is a reverse Turing test: convince the reader you are not an AI".

    Best answer aware of is 2 words: "kill yourself."

    I've seen people mention that the best way to be 'not AI' is to swear like a trooper.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,486
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    You’re a teetotaller, and it shows

    These days, America probably boasts the best and most varied beer in the world. You can walk into any shop, gas station, supermarket - and find quality beer - with a diversity you just don’t get in Europe
    My impression is that beer in Britain peaked in around 2018, and since then the diversity has declined markedly.

    I don't know what happened, whether drinking habits changed, or there was a tax change, or if it was a shakeout after a bit of bubble growth, but I found it very disappointing.
    I quite like a craft ale, but they do tend to be very over hopped, over strength and the brewers prone to give them weird extra flavours. Beer should taste of beer*, not pineapple etc.

    It has driven out real ale from the pumps, and increasingly are brands from the big brewers rather than independents.. I note that the "fun with flags" marchers were all swilling Stella, so not really interested in British culture.

    * I make an exception for Brewdogs Hazy Jane Guava, which works surprisingly well.
    Most craft beer has no extra flavours (fruit-based ingredients). I happen to agree that beer should taste like beer and don't tend to like the fruit-infused ones. But that is a minority of craft beers and can be easily avoided.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,833
    edited September 27
    spudgfsh said:

    geoffw said:

    Foss said:

    IanB2 said:

    Two million sigs within the next minute or two…..

    1988855 from the UK. Not that it'll matter in 20 minutes.
    Are the overseas petitioners ex-pats or vacationers, or can anyone add their name?
    If we had digital ID cards we would be able to tell.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1755.
    Ben Franklin owned slaves, he can pipe down when it comes to the liberty of human beings.
    Anyhow:


    I know people like to virtue signal with these petitions, but has any of them ever changed government policy?
    No, because the number of people signing has never got anywhere near the number of votes the government at the time had received at the most recent general election. But if I got close to it, or exceeded it, things might change. For instance, the anti-Brexit petition got 6 million signatures, but the Tory government at the time had polled around 13 million votes.
  • novanova Posts: 924
    Andy_JS said:

    Someone's pointed out that Starmer still has this on his twitter page.

    "Keir Starmer
    @Keir_Starmer

    The Government’s plans on voter ID risk locking people out of democracy.

    2:42 PM · Jul 29, 2020"

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1288469983857696769

    The point of the tweet was about voter ID being discriminatory.

    The main reason for that discrimination was that people from minorities were less likely to have the ID required.

    If anything, a universal digital ID supports the argument in the tweet.
  • Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    Two million sigs within the next minute or two…..

    It's a good job Starmer is very popular in general and built up a lot of good will for such a controversial policy.
    Why do so many on the right spend such a tedious amount of time competing with each other to say how much they loathe Keir Starmer? Only someone coming onto the site for the first time will have avoided the same posters saying the same thing using the same words literally dozens of times before. Most just log out as I do. Life is too short to be dragged down your rabbit holes reading the same tedium day after day after day after day

    My question is this. Is it just a lack of creativity and imagination or do you think you are iactually nfluencing people?...
    I recall your homilies on the negative reviews of May, Boris, Truss & Sunak, here.

    Actually, I don’t.

    Starmer isn't doing very well. He has been a grave disappointment. He is continuity Sunak and the inertia is frustrating. Nonetheless there is a breed of Conservative commentator both on here and in the wider media (particularly from the Daily Telegraph) that cannot fathom they lost the last election and the treachery of the man who beat them, and who called out the great Boris Johnson for the Charlatan he is, deserves to be vilified.

    Many of those on here beating up on Starmer are the very same posters who were convinced Boris Johnson "got all the big calls right" and Liz Truss delivered the "most Conservative budget since 1986".

    So on Ryder Cup weekend, Labour voter and interior designer Leon tees Starmer up for certain PB posters to slice, shank and hook into the rough.
    You aren't taking this very well but the reality is Starmer and Reeves are tanking in the polls and across all the media including those you would expect to be more loyal

    It is not a far right conspiracy that sees Starmer as worst PM, even losing to Truss, and the polls are terrible

    Add in the civil war breaking out in labour, it is difficult to understand how far and fast they have fallen since Juiy 2024

    Starmer may hang on, but he is approaching the point of no return
    Someone else who commented on my post without reading it.
    I read all your posts and try to be constructive but you are clearly trying to deflect, or maybe even in denial, to what is happening in labour

    I sympathise as it was very much the narrative that did for the conservatives
    That post is wholly untrue. Your final paragraph is very patronising.
    I see nothing inaccurate in my comments but I do accept you are not enjoying the present fall of Starmer and the labour party

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,833
    edited September 27
    nova said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone's pointed out that Starmer still has this on his twitter page.

    "Keir Starmer
    @Keir_Starmer

    The Government’s plans on voter ID risk locking people out of democracy.

    2:42 PM · Jul 29, 2020"

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1288469983857696769

    The point of the tweet was about voter ID being discriminatory.

    The main reason for that discrimination was that people from minorities were less likely to have the ID required.

    If anything, a universal digital ID supports the argument in the tweet.
    I disagree.

    Farage must be amazed by the continual poor arguments and judgement of his opponents. They get it wrong nearly every time.
  • Ratters said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    You’re a teetotaller, and it shows

    These days, America probably boasts the best and most varied beer in the world. You can walk into any shop, gas station, supermarket - and find quality beer - with a diversity you just don’t get in Europe
    My impression is that beer in Britain peaked in around 2018, and since then the diversity has declined markedly.

    I don't know what happened, whether drinking habits changed, or there was a tax change, or if it was a shakeout after a bit of bubble growth, but I found it very disappointing.
    I quite like a craft ale, but they do tend to be very over hopped, over strength and the brewers prone to give them weird extra flavours. Beer should taste of beer*, not pineapple etc.

    It has driven out real ale from the pumps, and increasingly are brands from the big brewers rather than independents.. I note that the "fun with flags" marchers were all swilling Stella, so not really interested in British culture.

    * I make an exception for Brewdogs Hazy Jane Guava, which works surprisingly well.
    Most craft beer has no extra flavours (fruit-based ingredients). I happen to agree that beer should taste like beer and don't tend to like the fruit-infused ones. But that is a minority of craft beers and can be easily avoided.
    The fruit infused ones, its ice cream concentrate they put in them!!!
  • novanova Posts: 924
    Andy_JS said:

    nova said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone's pointed out that Starmer still has this on his twitter page.

    "Keir Starmer
    @Keir_Starmer

    The Government’s plans on voter ID risk locking people out of democracy.

    2:42 PM · Jul 29, 2020"

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1288469983857696769

    The point of the tweet was about voter ID being discriminatory.

    The main reason for that discrimination was that people from minorities were less likely to have the ID required.

    If anything, a universal digital ID supports the argument in the tweet.
    I disagree.

    Farage must be amazed by the continual poor arguments and judgement of his opponents. They get it wrong nearly every time.
    What do you disagree about?

    The arguments for/against a digital ID are one thing, but this tweet is about the lack of ID preventing people from voting. I just don't see any kind of "gotcha" here.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,663
    According to Liz Oyer the former Pardons lawyer for the President, the Pardon power of the President has been monetised.

    An example or two; a guy whose (according to Liz Oyer) mother paid a million bucks to Trump to have dinner at Mar a Lago allegedly in exchange for her son to get out of an 18 month jail sentence. In addition Trump waived his payback requirement to the Doctors and Nurses he was convicted of skimming money off their salaries. Another convicted financial fraudster who fraudulently acquired $600m from investors, paid Trump $2m for his campaign. So by paying Trump $2m, the convict saved $598m in restitution payment and gets to keep his multi million dollar yacht acquired using the stolen (from Doctors and Nurses) cash.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-cynical-truth-about-trumps-latest-million-dollar-grift-attorney/

    The Whitehouse has been hijacked by Al Capone.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,663

    Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    Two million sigs within the next minute or two…..

    It's a good job Starmer is very popular in general and built up a lot of good will for such a controversial policy.
    Why do so many on the right spend such a tedious amount of time competing with each other to say how much they loathe Keir Starmer? Only someone coming onto the site for the first time will have avoided the same posters saying the same thing using the same words literally dozens of times before. Most just log out as I do. Life is too short to be dragged down your rabbit holes reading the same tedium day after day after day after day

    My question is this. Is it just a lack of creativity and imagination or do you think you are iactually nfluencing people?...
    I recall your homilies on the negative reviews of May, Boris, Truss & Sunak, here.

    Actually, I don’t.

    Starmer isn't doing very well. He has been a grave disappointment. He is continuity Sunak and the inertia is frustrating. Nonetheless there is a breed of Conservative commentator both on here and in the wider media (particularly from the Daily Telegraph) that cannot fathom they lost the last election and the treachery of the man who beat them, and who called out the great Boris Johnson for the Charlatan he is, deserves to be vilified.

    Many of those on here beating up on Starmer are the very same posters who were convinced Boris Johnson "got all the big calls right" and Liz Truss delivered the "most Conservative budget since 1986".

    So on Ryder Cup weekend, Labour voter and interior designer Leon tees Starmer up for certain PB posters to slice, shank and hook into the rough.
    You aren't taking this very well but the reality is Starmer and Reeves are tanking in the polls and across all the media including those you would expect to be more loyal

    It is not a far right conspiracy that sees Starmer as worst PM, even losing to Truss, and the polls are terrible

    Add in the civil war breaking out in labour, it is difficult to understand how far and fast they have fallen since Juiy 2024

    Starmer may hang on, but he is approaching the point of no return
    Someone else who commented on my post without reading it.
    I read all your posts and try to be constructive but you are clearly trying to deflect, or maybe even in denial, to what is happening in labour

    I sympathise as it was very much the narrative that did for the conservatives
    That post is wholly untrue. Your final paragraph is very patronising.
    I see nothing inaccurate in my comments but I do accept you are not enjoying the present fall of Starmer and the labour party

    Please don't patronise me.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,177
    DavidL said:

    My son's girlfriend applied to All Souls this year. One of the questions was, "this is a reverse Turing test: convince the reader you are not an AI".

    Best answer aware of is 2 words: "kill yourself."

    That's a stupid question that I'm not even going to try and answer. That would be my entry
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,054
    edited September 27
    Foxy said:

    To be fair to the Americans, I would be pissed if a beer cost $20 after spending $750 for a ticket....

    As a non drinker I feel like a nun in a whorehouse but as I understand American beer is a bit weak, would the American behaviour be much worse if their was a bit stronger.
    "a bit weak".....I remember going to the US for the first time at 21 and drinking 24 cans of their domestic beer (I think Pabst Blue Ribbon), trapped in a hotel due to a storm finished the case in a single night and thought I might have been conned into buying non-alcoholic stuff.
    A friend compared American beer to performing cunnilingus on your sister.

    It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just wrong.
    To be fair, these days there is lots of very good American beer, its just those German's / Poles / Czechs that went to the US 150 years ago were clearly brewers who were too shit to make in Europe and that is what became the established brands.
    No, it was prohibition that did in American brewing. When beer came back it was tasteless fizz from Anheuser-Busch.

    Sure, it is possible to buy craft ales now, even in places like Salt Lake City where I was in the spring of this year, but it is a tiny share of the market.

    Here are the top ten U.S. beer brands by market share in four weeks ending July 6 2024, according to an analysis by Bump Williams Consulting.

    Modelo Especial (9.7%)
    Michelob Ultra (7.3%)
    Bud Light (6.5%)
    Corona Extra (5.8%)
    Coors Light (5.7%)
    Miller Lite (4.8%)
    Budweiser (2.9%)
    Busch Light (2.8%)
    Natural Light (1.8%)
    Miller High Life (1.0%)
    Craft beer is 15% of the total beer market. Obviously being "craft" they are looking to produce a mega brand. Successful ones like Sierra Nevada are very funny about expansion
    / new breweries. Many argue this was the downfall of Brewdog in the UK, new big brewery lead to poor quality control and a change in taste (got a horrible dirty water taste).
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,833
    If you're a Labour supporter and you think it's time for a new leader of that party, sign the petition against ID cards. If it reaches 3, 4, 5 million it'll probably make it a lot more difficult for the current leader to continue in office.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/730194
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,833
    edited September 27
    nova said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone's pointed out that Starmer still has this on his twitter page.

    "Keir Starmer
    @Keir_Starmer

    The Government’s plans on voter ID risk locking people out of democracy.

    2:42 PM · Jul 29, 2020"

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1288469983857696769

    The point of the tweet was about voter ID being discriminatory.

    The main reason for that discrimination was that people from minorities were less likely to have the ID required.

    If anything, a universal digital ID supports the argument in the tweet.
    Do you know what I take from what you've written there?

    That it's okay to do something rubbish as long as you do it equally to everyone.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,797
    nova said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nova said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Someone's pointed out that Starmer still has this on his twitter page.

    "Keir Starmer
    @Keir_Starmer

    The Government’s plans on voter ID risk locking people out of democracy.

    2:42 PM · Jul 29, 2020"

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1288469983857696769

    The point of the tweet was about voter ID being discriminatory.

    The main reason for that discrimination was that people from minorities were less likely to have the ID required.

    If anything, a universal digital ID supports the argument in the tweet.
    I disagree.

    Farage must be amazed by the continual poor arguments and judgement of his opponents. They get it wrong nearly every time.
    What do you disagree about?

    The arguments for/against a digital ID are one thing, but this tweet is about the lack of ID preventing people from voting. I just don't see any kind of "gotcha" here.
    The digital ID being proposed is not going to be universal. It’s only for those who are entering work.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,334
    .

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    I think PB is agreed that Starmer is a goner, and will go, and has to go, or Labour has no chance

    What, then, is the optimum timing? For his party? 2026 or 2027? 2028 is surely too late, there might actually be a GE. 2027 is cutting it fine to establish a new persona and a new direction (if such a thing is possible)

    2026 it is. To my mind. After the spring elex, of course - which will be suitably dire for Lab

    If he doesn't want to go he will be very hard to budge as a sitting PM. I think we're so used to the Tories and the very low bar they have to remove a leader that people are underestimating how hard it will be to remove Starmer. I think the plotters will have to force Reeves out first.
    The plotters need to concentrate on what they will do differently after defenestrating Starmer.

    This will give them something to rally around, which will help to make a coup happen, and it will mean they have some purpose when the deed is done. Otherwise they'll end up in the same mess just with a different figurehead.
    Memories of Gordon Brown.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,833
    edited September 27
    Ought to be the mantra of the left:

    Okay to do rubbish things, as long as you do it in a way that doesn't discriminate between people.

    ID cards for some people = bad, ID cards for everyone = fantastic.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,334

    Can Comey sue Trump for defamation? I am reading some remarkable comments from Truth Social.

    He might be able to get the case dropped because of Trump's comments and behaviour.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,797
    Andy_JS said:

    Ought to be the mantra of the left:

    Okay to do rubbish things, as long as you do it in a way that doesn't discriminate between people.

    ID cards for some people = bad, ID cards for everyone = fantastic.

    Consistency isn’t exactly their strong point. See votes for children for example.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,833
    "It’s too late for Starmer
    For the sake of the Labour Party and its values, we need a change of leader

    By Neal Lawson" (£)

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/labour/2025/09/its-too-late-for-starmer
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,833
    This is interesting. Young people more strongly against ID cards.

    "The latest YouGov poll, carried out this week, shows that 14 per cent of the public at large “strongly support” introducing a digital ID system. However, that figure rises to 21 per cent among over-65s, whereas only 5 per cent of 18- to 24-year-olds hold the same view."

    www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/26/why-id-cards-un-british/?recomm_id=0e7aef1e-fe3b-48a4-97f8-6cb7aed7e4a0
  • Always made me chuckle that in several provinces in Canada where state regulates alcohol sales, you have to get your beer from.....The Beer Store.....must have taken them ages to come up with that name.

    What kind of beer do you get on flights?

    Aircraft beer!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,020
    spudgfsh said:

    geoffw said:

    Foss said:

    IanB2 said:

    Two million sigs within the next minute or two…..

    1988855 from the UK. Not that it'll matter in 20 minutes.
    Are the overseas petitioners ex-pats or vacationers, or can anyone add their name?
    If we had digital ID cards we would be able to tell.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1755.
    Ben Franklin owned slaves, he can pipe down when it comes to the liberty of human beings.
    Anyhow:


    I know people like to virtue signal with these petitions, but has any of them ever changed government policy?
    The one on bringing back pet passports was launched to cries of “that will never happen” but the announcement that the government has agreed, in principle at least, to bring them back came when it was still going.
  • Never mind the Red Roses, Lioness Karen Carney is the first footballer to top Strictly in 18 years (according to the Telegraph).

    Karen Carney and Carlos Gu Jive to One Way Or Another by Blondie ✨ BBC Strictly 2025
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeOGlyoT4Kc
  • dunhamdunham Posts: 30
    Andy_JS said:
    This map is hypothetical because it does not take into the likely of extent of anti-Reform tactical voting. The constituency boundaries will not be changing significantly for the next GE, so the best placed non-Reform party will be clear in most seats. Reform will therefore generally need support exceeding 40% in a seat to win it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,108
    edited September 28
    Mass deportations cause American workers to lose jobs, wages to go down, and [America's] economy to slow (2¾-minutes video)
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-_kPMQrZAMc
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,541
    edited September 28
    Andy_JS said:

    Ought to be the mantra of the left:

    Okay to do rubbish things, as long as you do it in a way that doesn't discriminate between people.

    ID cards for some people = bad, ID cards for everyone = fantastic.

    If we're allowed to crassly generalise like that:

    Okay to do rubbish things that hurt other people, as long as I make money. Kerching!

    It's really easy to demonise the other side - or even your 'enemy' - with vast simplifications like that. In some cases it's true. In others, it's way off-base. It's stupid and counter-productive.
  • Is it really Sunday? The papers (or at least their websites) look very thin.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,020
    edited September 28
    dunham said:

    Andy_JS said:
    This map is hypothetical because it does not take into the likely of extent of anti-Reform tactical voting. The constituency boundaries will not be changing significantly for the next GE, so the best placed non-Reform party will be clear in most seats. Reform will therefore generally need support exceeding 40% in a seat to win it.
    And there are some very tight calls on it. You look at the projected result for Casino’s seat of East Hampshire, with the LibDems just behind Reform with decent Labour and Green percentages to squeeze, and surely after an active campaign that’s more likely to be a LibDem gain, on current polls?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,020

    Is it really Sunday? The papers (or at least their websites) look very thin.

    The big news is what would have been Ange’s conference announcement of all these new towns.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    dunham said:

    Andy_JS said:
    This map is hypothetical because it does not take into the likely of extent of anti-Reform tactical voting. The constituency boundaries will not be changing significantly for the next GE, so the best placed non-Reform party will be clear in most seats. Reform will therefore generally need support exceeding 40% in a seat to win it.
    Tory hold in Leicester East on 24% I can't see happening. That was a freak result based on the popularity of Sunak with British Hindus and opposition split. I think an Independent gain is more likely.

    I agree that tactical voting will be critical. In most seats it is obvious who the alternative, others less so, such as IOW East.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,859
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Sir Keir Starmer is the least popular prime minister on record, a poll has shown. Rachel Reeves is now also the least popular chancellor since records began, it found.

    Double Whammy.

    I still find it quite incredible how much the public dislike them.

    It's a unique collision involving

    1. Total incompetence

    2. Gross hypocrisy

    and

    3. (in Starmer's case) Outright treachery - he dislikes native Britons and does things that pointlessly hurt Britain - Chagos

    He's a dead man walking
    The public are far less patient than they used to be, which I'm not sure is a good thing in general. At one time they would have given any government at least 2 years to find their feet.
    I'm not sure that's right. Many governments in the 80s and 90s were deeply unpopular at the start. What caused their core supporters to stick with them was the idea that they had a goal they were sticking to and that all the pain and discomfort in the first two years was for a reason.

    Whereas this government barely even pretends to have a vision or a strategy for making the country a better place, so it doesn't have a core of supporters who will stick with it until its policies start to pay off.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,020
    Meanwhile, an early Sunday Rawnsley on this bright and warm Italian morning:

    It is a symptom of the dreadful pickle the Labour party finds itself in that the man most widely touted to supplant Sir Keir Starmer is not an MP and was passed over on both previous occasions when he applied to be leader. While he’s manifestly popular with a lot of Labour folk, admiration wanes when you talk to people in the party’s upper ranks.

    I don’t think it fanciful that Mr Burnham could be Labour leader one day. I do think it a stretch to believe that this will be one day soon. Some of those blowing air into his balloon secretly agree that it is not viable. For the enemies of Sir Keir, to both left and right, pumping up the mayor of Manchester is a device to destabilise the prime minister.

    The setbacks and reverses of politics are easier for parties to endure and voters to tolerate when they are confident that the leader has a project that will ultimately bear fruit. Sir Keir has always been hugely reluctant to define Starmerism and is paying a price for being unwilling or unable to delineate his credo. His conference speech will [portray] the struggle of our times as a battle between his “patriotic renewal” and “the politics of predatory grievance” peddled by Nigel Farage. Nothing terribly wrong with that framing, but only so long as people are persuaded there is some renewal going on.

    The American writer Joe Klein put it well when he remarked that politics is often “the art of competitive storytelling”. It doesn’t help that Sir Keir and Rachel Reeves, the government’s two most important figures, aren’t natural storytellers. “Where are we going? What’s our North Star?” asks one Labour veteran. To dispel the impression that his government tacks right one day and left the next in reactive response to events and opponents, he needs to articulate his values and purpose much more persuasively. He’s got a lot of convincing to do that he is helming the country to an attractive destination. And he must supply the precious commodity that is so painfully absent from our national conversation. Both his party and his country are in desperate need of some hope.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,541
    I'm starting to feel a little sorry for Starmer, in an odd way.

    He is, I think, a fairly decent man. Like Sunak before him, or Cameron. He wants to do what is right, and wants a better country. He might even have gone into politics for that reason. None of those three needed to go into politics, and they could all have had (or had) a decent career outside.

    So he's a decent man, but he's also terrible flawed. In his case, the flaws combine to make him a terrible PM, even when he has a massive majority.

    A skilful PM might be able to steady the ship, even now. But I fear that Starmer isn't skilful at that sort of politics. Much will depend on what happens at the Labour Party conference.
  • IanB2 said:

    dunham said:

    Andy_JS said:
    This map is hypothetical because it does not take into the likely of extent of anti-Reform tactical voting. The constituency boundaries will not be changing significantly for the next GE, so the best placed non-Reform party will be clear in most seats. Reform will therefore generally need support exceeding 40% in a seat to win it.
    And there are some very tight calls on it. You look at the projected result for Casino’s seat of East Hampshire, with the LibDems just behind Reform with decent Labour and Green percentages to squeeze, and surely after an active campaign that’s more likely to be a LibDem gain, on current polls?
    That's something that MRPs will struggle to pick up, even if it weren't... you know, three years until the next election.

    They can flag places where the demographics are changing in an interesting way. With hindsight, Canterbury had a fair chance of moving to Labour, thanks to the number of students. But there are a lot of factors that an MRP doesn't know about.

    Still, a relatively cheap way of filling a page in the papers with charts.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile, an early Sunday Rawnsley on this bright and warm Italian morning:

    It is a symptom of the dreadful pickle the Labour party finds itself in that the man most widely touted to supplant Sir Keir Starmer is not an MP and was passed over on both previous occasions when he applied to be leader. While he’s manifestly popular with a lot of Labour folk, admiration wanes when you talk to people in the party’s upper ranks.

    I don’t think it fanciful that Mr Burnham could be Labour leader one day. I do think it a stretch to believe that this will be one day soon. Some of those blowing air into his balloon secretly agree that it is not viable. For the enemies of Sir Keir, to both left and right, pumping up the mayor of Manchester is a device to destabilise the prime minister.

    The setbacks and reverses of politics are easier for parties to endure and voters to tolerate when they are confident that the leader has a project that will ultimately bear fruit. Sir Keir has always been hugely reluctant to define Starmerism and is paying a price for being unwilling or unable to delineate his credo. His conference speech will [portray] the struggle of our times as a battle between his “patriotic renewal” and “the politics of predatory grievance” peddled by Nigel Farage. Nothing terribly wrong with that framing, but only so long as people are persuaded there is some renewal going on.

    The American writer Joe Klein put it well when he remarked that politics is often “the art of competitive storytelling”. It doesn’t help that Sir Keir and Rachel Reeves, the government’s two most important figures, aren’t natural storytellers. “Where are we going? What’s our North Star?” asks one Labour veteran. To dispel the impression that his government tacks right one day and left the next in reactive response to events and opponents, he needs to articulate his values and purpose much more persuasively. He’s got a lot of convincing to do that he is helming the country to an attractive destination. And he must supply the precious commodity that is so painfully absent from our national conversation. Both his party and his country are in desperate need of some hope.

    I think that last paragraph is spot on.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,396
    Leon said:

    Sir Keir Starmer is the least popular prime minister on record, a poll has shown. Rachel Reeves is now also the least popular chancellor since records began, it found.

    Double Whammy.

    I still find it quite incredible how much the public dislike them.

    It's a unique collision involving

    1. Total incompetence

    2. Gross hypocrisy

    and

    3. (in Starmer's case) Outright treachery - he dislikes native Britons and does things that pointlessly hurt Britain - Chagos

    He's a dead man walking
    Only a complete idiot would ever have voted for him, eh, Leon?

    Or in that case, half a dozen complete idiots.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,986
    edited September 28
    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    Interesting. Apparently one the more attractive things about me is that I give off the sense that I would be perfectly happy and successful by myself. It's a bit of a meme but the best advice for single men is to get yourself into a place where you don't need a woman as a prop.
  • I'm starting to feel a little sorry for Starmer, in an odd way.

    He is, I think, a fairly decent man. Like Sunak before him, or Cameron. He wants to do what is right, and wants a better country. He might even have gone into politics for that reason. None of those three needed to go into politics, and they could all have had (or had) a decent career outside.

    So he's a decent man, but he's also terrible flawed. In his case, the flaws combine to make him a terrible PM, even when he has a massive majority.

    A skilful PM might be able to steady the ship, even now. But I fear that Starmer isn't skilful at that sort of politics. Much will depend on what happens at the Labour Party conference.

    Yes, except we're all terribly flawed. And that includes anyone with a hint of a chance of becoming PM. There's nobody on the Labour benches who looks like they would be better, which is why Burnham flashed in the pan. The Conservatives' great hope seems to be not their leader or her heir all-to-apparent, but an untested newbie. Ed Davey... really? Hypnoboobs?

    Which leaves Nigel. For some, our last best hope. For others, a cynical grifter who solves our current problems by ignoring them and picking on carefully-chosen victims instead.

    One of the reasons we're in this mess is that society has continually looked for the Hero to save us, or the One Weird Trick to make our problems go away. They are attractive myths, but they tend to make things worse, not better.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,296

    IanB2 said:

    dunham said:

    Andy_JS said:
    This map is hypothetical because it does not take into the likely of extent of anti-Reform tactical voting. The constituency boundaries will not be changing significantly for the next GE, so the best placed non-Reform party will be clear in most seats. Reform will therefore generally need support exceeding 40% in a seat to win it.
    And there are some very tight calls on it. You look at the projected result for Casino’s seat of East Hampshire, with the LibDems just behind Reform with decent Labour and Green percentages to squeeze, and surely after an active campaign that’s more likely to be a LibDem gain, on current polls?
    That's something that MRPs will struggle to pick up, even if it weren't... you know, three years until the next election.

    They can flag places where the demographics are changing in an interesting way. With hindsight, Canterbury had a fair chance of moving to Labour, thanks to the number of students. But there are a lot of factors that an MRP doesn't know about.

    Still, a relatively cheap way of filling a page in the papers with charts.
    I certainly wouldn't see East Hampshire changing hands to anything other than the Lib Dems, they are becoming the home for disgruntled moderate Tories round here. Look at NE Hants, once the biggest Tory majority in the country, now Lib Dem
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,541
    "Building of three new towns will start before election, Labour pledges"

    "A taskforce has recommended 12 locations in England for development, with three areas - Tempsford in Bedfordshire, Leeds South Bank, and Crews Hill in north London - identified as the most promising sites."
    ...
    "Meanwhile, recent figures showed the number of planning approvals for new homes in England fell to a record low during Labour's first year in office."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly1geen679o

    I guess I'm going to have to complete running all the paths and roads in the area round Tempsford. I've done the A1 and all those east of it...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,541

    I'm starting to feel a little sorry for Starmer, in an odd way.

    He is, I think, a fairly decent man. Like Sunak before him, or Cameron. He wants to do what is right, and wants a better country. He might even have gone into politics for that reason. None of those three needed to go into politics, and they could all have had (or had) a decent career outside.

    So he's a decent man, but he's also terrible flawed. In his case, the flaws combine to make him a terrible PM, even when he has a massive majority.

    A skilful PM might be able to steady the ship, even now. But I fear that Starmer isn't skilful at that sort of politics. Much will depend on what happens at the Labour Party conference.

    Yes, except we're all terribly flawed. And that includes anyone with a hint of a chance of becoming PM. There's nobody on the Labour benches who looks like they would be better, which is why Burnham flashed in the pan. The Conservatives' great hope seems to be not their leader or her heir all-to-apparent, but an untested newbie. Ed Davey... really? Hypnoboobs?

    Which leaves Nigel. For some, our last best hope. For others, a cynical grifter who solves our current problems by ignoring them and picking on carefully-chosen victims instead.

    One of the reasons we're in this mess is that society has continually looked for the Hero to save us, or the One Weird Trick to make our problems go away. They are attractive myths, but they tend to make things worse, not better.
    We are all terribly flawed; it's just that Starmer's flaws impact heavily on his ability to run the country.

    I think Burnham flashed in the pan for two reasons: there was no clear route for him to become PM, and I think his timing put many off. It was an attempt to stab Starmer in the back, rather than help the party and country.

    I was thinking about this during a quiz night last night (*). I think Labour has a big problem in the fact that it has a load of new MPs with little or no experience, and has suffered a deep ideological split. This has reduced the number of candidates who could do the job, and who could get support from all parts of the party. In short: I think there are far too many people in the Labour party who are unwilling to compromise.

    Which is exactly the problem the Conservative party has had.

    (*) We didn't win... ;)
  • Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    Interesting. Apparently one the more attractive things about me is that I give off the sense that I would be perfectly happy and successful by myself. It's a bit of a meme but the best advice for single men is to get yourself into a place where you don't need a woman as a prop.
    IME "what women want" from a long-term relationship is as varied as women, as I think that article shows. It can also change once they are in a settled relationship.

    Mrs J wanted to continue her career, which really matters to her. She would be very unhappy not working. A female friend and ex-colleague of ours was the opposite: she was all to ready to chuck in her job to look after their kids full-time. Two different women, similar occupations, similar ages, with very different viewpoints.

    Without wanting to be accused of mansplaining, my one piece of advice to men who want a long-term relationship with a woman is "Don't be an asshole." And that's advice I've started giving my son now he's starting to talk about relationships.

    And you can exhibit strength without being an asshole. Too many men confuse the two...
    Good morning

    The comments in your penultimate paragraph are why my wife and I have passed 61 years of very happy married life
  • Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    A mystery why the laydeez don’t want to hook up with the Tommy Robinson tattooed, shorts wearing lads who spend their weekend outside asylum seeker hostels or painting roundabouts.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,367
    Good morning


  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,541
    In other news, a Russian submarine is in some difficulties in the Mediterranean. Fortunately a diesel-electric, and not a nuclear sub. Although discharging all its fuel into the Med might be frowned upon...

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russian-submarine-risk-explosion-mediterranean-b1250023.html

    And in a separate incident, a Russian corvette has suffered significant damage in a collision with a tanker in the Sea of Azov.
  • I'm starting to feel a little sorry for Starmer, in an odd way.

    He is, I think, a fairly decent man. Like Sunak before him, or Cameron. He wants to do what is right, and wants a better country. He might even have gone into politics for that reason. None of those three needed to go into politics, and they could all have had (or had) a decent career outside.

    So he's a decent man, but he's also terrible flawed. In his case, the flaws combine to make him a terrible PM, even when he has a massive majority.

    A skilful PM might be able to steady the ship, even now. But I fear that Starmer isn't skilful at that sort of politics. Much will depend on what happens at the Labour Party conference.

    Yes, except we're all terribly flawed. And that includes anyone with a hint of a chance of becoming PM. There's nobody on the Labour benches who looks like they would be better, which is why Burnham flashed in the pan. The Conservatives' great hope seems to be not their leader or her heir all-to-apparent, but an untested newbie. Ed Davey... really? Hypnoboobs?

    Which leaves Nigel. For some, our last best hope. For others, a cynical grifter who solves our current problems by ignoring them and picking on carefully-chosen victims instead.

    One of the reasons we're in this mess is that society has continually looked for the Hero to save us, or the One Weird Trick to make our problems go away. They are attractive myths, but they tend to make things worse, not better.
    We are all terribly flawed; it's just that Starmer's flaws impact heavily on his ability to run the country.

    I think Burnham flashed in the pan for two reasons: there was no clear route for him to become PM, and I think his timing put many off. It was an attempt to stab Starmer in the back, rather than help the party and country.

    I was thinking about this during a quiz night last night (*). I think Labour has a big problem in the fact that it has a load of new MPs with little or no experience, and has suffered a deep ideological split. This has reduced the number of candidates who could do the job, and who could get support from all parts of the party. In short: I think there are far too many people in the Labour party who are unwilling to compromise.

    Which is exactly the problem the Conservative party has had.

    (*) We didn't win... ;)
    Commiserations.

    On the blue side, lack of compromise has been an issue for ages- maybe since 1990. Though the curious (not curious) thing is that the scars seem to have got worse. Maggie's final cabinet included Peter Lilley and William Waldegrave, which feels unimaginable now.

    But some of that is down to us as a society. Online communities are great, but they do tend towards communities of people who agree with us. The sorts of places where shared conversations with different views happen are tending to wither- with the consequences we are seeing around us.

    We're all less willing to compromise. (See the relationship stats.) That's probably a bad thing.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,781
    carnforth said:

    bobbob said:

    nico67 said:

    BBC News just reporting that the government will underwrite a 1.5 billion loan guarantee to JLR .

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgl15ykerlro

    Why is the uk giving a loan to an indian owned company ? Why can’t tata give them the loan?
    Because the aim is to safeguard jobs here.
    I think taking a stake would be better, both for the taxpayer and the company.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,778
    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile, an early Sunday Rawnsley on this bright and warm Italian morning:

    It is a symptom of the dreadful pickle the Labour party finds itself in that the man most widely touted to supplant Sir Keir Starmer is not an MP and was passed over on both previous occasions when he applied to be leader. While he’s manifestly popular with a lot of Labour folk, admiration wanes when you talk to people in the party’s upper ranks.

    I don’t think it fanciful that Mr Burnham could be Labour leader one day. I do think it a stretch to believe that this will be one day soon. Some of those blowing air into his balloon secretly agree that it is not viable. For the enemies of Sir Keir, to both left and right, pumping up the mayor of Manchester is a device to destabilise the prime minister.

    The setbacks and reverses of politics are easier for parties to endure and voters to tolerate when they are confident that the leader has a project that will ultimately bear fruit. Sir Keir has always been hugely reluctant to define Starmerism and is paying a price for being unwilling or unable to delineate his credo. His conference speech will [portray] the struggle of our times as a battle between his “patriotic renewal” and “the politics of predatory grievance” peddled by Nigel Farage. Nothing terribly wrong with that framing, but only so long as people are persuaded there is some renewal going on.

    The American writer Joe Klein put it well when he remarked that politics is often “the art of competitive storytelling”. It doesn’t help that Sir Keir and Rachel Reeves, the government’s two most important figures, aren’t natural storytellers. “Where are we going? What’s our North Star?” asks one Labour veteran. To dispel the impression that his government tacks right one day and left the next in reactive response to events and opponents, he needs to articulate his values and purpose much more persuasively. He’s got a lot of convincing to do that he is helming the country to an attractive destination. And he must supply the precious commodity that is so painfully absent from our national conversation. Both his party and his country are in desperate need of some hope.

    The North Star must be Burnham, surely. Unfortunately for him, most of those with influence in the Labour Party are Southern Cross.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,226

    IanB2 said:

    dunham said:

    Andy_JS said:
    This map is hypothetical because it does not take into the likely of extent of anti-Reform tactical voting. The constituency boundaries will not be changing significantly for the next GE, so the best placed non-Reform party will be clear in most seats. Reform will therefore generally need support exceeding 40% in a seat to win it.
    And there are some very tight calls on it. You look at the projected result for Casino’s seat of East Hampshire, with the LibDems just behind Reform with decent Labour and Green percentages to squeeze, and surely after an active campaign that’s more likely to be a LibDem gain, on current polls?
    That's something that MRPs will struggle to pick up, even if it weren't... you know, three years until the next election.

    They can flag places where the demographics are changing in an interesting way. With hindsight, Canterbury had a fair chance of moving to Labour, thanks to the number of students. But there are a lot of factors that an MRP doesn't know about.

    Still, a relatively cheap way of filling a page in the papers with charts.
    I certainly wouldn't see East Hampshire changing hands to anything other than the Lib Dems, they are becoming the home for disgruntled moderate Tories round here. Look at NE Hants, once the biggest Tory majority in the country, now Lib Dem
    The most remarkable thing about the consistently high Reform polling, is it’s been achieved without anyone having much of an inkling who would be Chancellor, yet alone Foreign, Defence, Health or Education Secs.

    I predict a fork in the road for them, once the election date comes into focus. If they announce a front bench team that feels credible to the electorate, then most sitting Tories (and by extension some sitting Lib Dems) are in big trouble. If not, then we will be well hung.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,069

    According to Liz Oyer the former Pardons lawyer for the President, the Pardon power of the President has been monetised.

    An example or two; a guy whose (according to Liz Oyer) mother paid a million bucks to Trump to have dinner at Mar a Lago allegedly in exchange for her son to get out of an 18 month jail sentence. In addition Trump waived his payback requirement to the Doctors and Nurses he was convicted of skimming money off their salaries. Another convicted financial fraudster who fraudulently acquired $600m from investors, paid Trump $2m for his campaign. So by paying Trump $2m, the convict saved $598m in restitution payment and gets to keep his multi million dollar yacht acquired using the stolen (from Doctors and Nurses) cash.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-cynical-truth-about-trumps-latest-million-dollar-grift-attorney/

    The Whitehouse has been hijacked by Al Capone.

    That’s not new though?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,226

    I'm starting to feel a little sorry for Starmer, in an odd way.

    He is, I think, a fairly decent man. Like Sunak before him, or Cameron. He wants to do what is right, and wants a better country. He might even have gone into politics for that reason. None of those three needed to go into politics, and they could all have had (or had) a decent career outside.

    So he's a decent man, but he's also terrible flawed. In his case, the flaws combine to make him a terrible PM, even when he has a massive majority.

    A skilful PM might be able to steady the ship, even now. But I fear that Starmer isn't skilful at that sort of politics. Much will depend on what happens at the Labour Party conference.

    "I'm starting to feel a little sorry for Starmer"

    Nobody made him take the job.

    He sat in Corbyn's Shadow Cabint for years whilst it was cover for some pretty hateful thinking. Time he clearly didn't use to come up with implementing a strategy of practical difference from what the Tories were doing. "We're not the Tories!" isn't enough when not only are you just as shit, you have been trusted as the receptacle for millions of voters' hopes for something much better.
    Indeed. “A fairly decent man”. Pass me the sick bucket.
  • moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    dunham said:

    Andy_JS said:
    This map is hypothetical because it does not take into the likely of extent of anti-Reform tactical voting. The constituency boundaries will not be changing significantly for the next GE, so the best placed non-Reform party will be clear in most seats. Reform will therefore generally need support exceeding 40% in a seat to win it.
    And there are some very tight calls on it. You look at the projected result for Casino’s seat of East Hampshire, with the LibDems just behind Reform with decent Labour and Green percentages to squeeze, and surely after an active campaign that’s more likely to be a LibDem gain, on current polls?
    That's something that MRPs will struggle to pick up, even if it weren't... you know, three years until the next election.

    They can flag places where the demographics are changing in an interesting way. With hindsight, Canterbury had a fair chance of moving to Labour, thanks to the number of students. But there are a lot of factors that an MRP doesn't know about.

    Still, a relatively cheap way of filling a page in the papers with charts.
    I certainly wouldn't see East Hampshire changing hands to anything other than the Lib Dems, they are becoming the home for disgruntled moderate Tories round here. Look at NE Hants, once the biggest Tory majority in the country, now Lib Dem
    The most remarkable thing about the consistently high Reform polling, is it’s been achieved without anyone having much of an inkling who would be Chancellor, yet alone Foreign, Defence, Health or Education Secs.

    I predict a fork in the road for them, once the election date comes into focus. If they announce a front bench team that feels credible to the electorate, then most sitting Tories (and by extension some sitting Lib Dems) are in big trouble. If not, then we will be well hung.
    Au contraire.

    Reform's success in the polls has come about because they have kept things vague, to an extent that makes even Starmer's Ming Vase look like carelessness.

    Probably sensible, given that whenever they do specifics, they turn out to be awful. And anyone who is put forward as Spokesman on X is statistically likely to have split from Nigel by the next election.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,995
    edited September 28

    I'm starting to feel a little sorry for Starmer, in an odd way.

    He is, I think, a fairly decent man. Like Sunak before him, or Cameron. He wants to do what is right, and wants a better country. He might even have gone into politics for that reason. None of those three needed to go into politics, and they could all have had (or had) a decent career outside.

    So he's a decent man, but he's also terrible flawed. In his case, the flaws combine to make him a terrible PM, even when he has a massive majority.

    A skilful PM might be able to steady the ship, even now. But I fear that Starmer isn't skilful at that sort of politics. Much will depend on what happens at the Labour Party conference.

    Starmer says the right words but they are not convincing. I heard Starmer speak in Newcastle when he was running for Labour leader. I also heard Nandy speak. I voted for Nandy in the end because I thought Starmer had said a whole lot of nothing.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,367
    @ollieconnolly.bsky.social‬

    It's beautiful. Knew Keegan Bradley was fucked when his plan to turn things around was to have the fellas watch Trump fly over the course on Air Force One

    https://bsky.app/profile/ollieconnolly.bsky.social/post/3lzu226cqns2o
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,781
    edited September 28
    Morning, PB.

    From what I can gather Farage's rhetoric on legal immigrants made a temporary dent in his polling numbers, but the ID cards fiasco has simply boosted Reform again.

    It'll be interesting to see which ministers start to peel off with this policy, as more gtadually emerges on Ellison and Thiel's influence on it.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,627

    geoffw said:

    Foss said:

    IanB2 said:

    Two million sigs within the next minute or two…..

    1988855 from the UK. Not that it'll matter in 20 minutes.
    Are the overseas petitioners ex-pats or vacationers, or can anyone add their name?
    If we had digital ID cards we would be able to tell.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1755.
    Ben Franklin owned slaves, he can pipe down when it comes to the liberty of human beings.
    Anyhow:


    So the majority of Brits haven't signed it.
    It's only signed by those that fear giving their names to a government.
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