Are greens really on 12%? They’ve had a bit of news coverage because of Polanski. Perhaps the hard left vote is consolidating around them given the ongoing will they won’t they with Corbyn and Sultana.
Why can’t the Lib Dems ever overtake the Tories, even just for one poll? We seem to move in concert with them between pollsters. Perhaps because both voter groups are now demographically similar?
The difference between Reform on 27% and Reform on 33% is vast in terms of FPTP seats. What is YG doing in its sampling that’s so different from so many others?
I’ve not looked at this specific poll but in their recent polls they have a tendency to down weight 2024 non voters which is where a substantial chunk of Reform’s support comes from, other pollsters are a bit more generous.
Before our low IQ posters smear YouGov this is a policy YouGov has followed since their founding in 2000 because outside of plebiscites non voters do not turn out to vote.
GE 2024’s low turnout should be considered when factoring in non voters this time; a lot of 2019 Tories stayed at home and I’d expect the majority of them to be saying they’d vote refute now. I doubt they be habitual non voters
If it’s a policy YG have followed since their foundation, there’s no need to look at this specific poll. We have the answer for YG finding lower Reform scores
Are greens really on 12%? They’ve had a bit of news coverage because of Polanski. Perhaps the hard left vote is consolidating around them given the ongoing will they won’t they with Corbyn and Sultana.
Why can’t the Lib Dems ever overtake the Tories, even just for one poll? We seem to move in concert with them between pollsters. Perhaps because both voter groups are now demographically similar?
The difference between Reform on 27% and Reform on 33% is vast in terms of FPTP seats. What is YG doing in its sampling that’s so different from so many others?
I’ve not looked at this specific poll but in their recent polls they have a tendency to down weight 2024 non voters which is where a substantial chunk of Reform’s support comes from, other pollsters are a bit more generous.
Before our low IQ posters smear YouGov this is a policy YouGov has followed since their founding in 2000 because outside of plebiscites non voters do not turn out to vote.
GE 2024’s low turnout should be considered when factoring in non voters this time; a lot of 2019 Tories stayed at home and I’d expect the majority of them to be saying they’d vote refute now. I doubt they be habitual non voters
If it’s a policy YG have followed since their foundation, there’s no need to look at this specific poll. We have the answer for YG finding lower Reform scores
These are habitual non voters, the last time this lost voted was in 2016 and haven’t voted in general elections since probably 2001/05.
Morning all. Counter Intuituve YouGov (or is it?) this week taken 7-8 Sept
Ref 27 (-2) Lab 22 (+2) Con 17 (=) LD 15 (=) Grn 12 (+2) SNP 3 (=) Oth 3
I'm not the best judge but Farage seems to have made more unforced errors in the last week than we've seen for a while. By the same token Starmer has appeared by sleight of hand to have done a lazarus....
Morning PB.
The Trumpy glitz of the Reform conference style may not have gone down so well in small town England. I also wonder about some of the people they got on stage, there.
Meanwhile Zack Polanski is getting a lot of attention.
The visibility of Rayner may also have actually reminded some people of why they liked Labour before, despite the story being about her resignation.
I’m sure the same people complaining about the attention Refrom gets won’t be complaining about Polanski being massively overexposed at the moment.
Guardian's list of runners in deputy leader race is a bit white and middle class. I can't see the members being happy, understandably as it suggests McSweeney has total control.
I am non white, perhaps I should become Labour's deputy leader?
Morning all. Counter Intuituve YouGov (or is it?) this week taken 7-8 Sept
Ref 27 (-2) Lab 22 (+2) Con 17 (=) LD 15 (=) Grn 12 (+2) SNP 3 (=) Oth 3
I'm not the best judge but Farage seems to have made more unforced errors in the last week than we've seen for a while. By the same token Starmer has appeared by sleight of hand to have done a lazarus....
Morning PB.
The Trumpy glitz of the Reform conference style may not have gone down so well in small town England. I also wonder about some of the people they got on stage, there.
Meanwhile Zack Polanski is getting a lot of attention.
The visibility of Rayner may also have actually reminded some people of why they liked Labour before, despite the story being about her resignation.
I’m sure the same people complaining about the attention Refrom gets won’t be complaining about Polanski being massively overexposed at the moment.
He's new (psychotherapy aside). Unlike the Reform pols. So give him his week of shiny novelty.
Starmer apparently calling his party the 'Patriots' and Farage is a plastic Patriot
Why does he continue to mimic Farage and the right ?
There was a time, not so long ago, when people on here, who are now Starmtroopers, used to say ‘patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel’
Using patriotism as an attack or a virtue is almost meaningless anyway ; it means whatever people feel it means to them so is a kind of strawman
Enoch Powell said that he’d fight for England even if we had a communist government; that kind of patriotism, going completely against your own beliefs for your country, seems a bit much. If we had an Islamist government now, and were at war with a Christian country, I think I’d want us beaten. Interesting dilemma
Isn’t the whole point of saying there will be a 2027 election is to allow Farage to complain about the lack of it throughout 2027/28 and keep his supporters annoyed and not thinking rationally
Labour did exactly the same in 2023. It’s just politics. The Tories did it in 2009.
I don’t get why it’s an issue. It’s just what happens. Most people just ignore it.
Are greens really on 12%? They’ve had a bit of news coverage because of Polanski. Perhaps the hard left vote is consolidating around them given the ongoing will they won’t they with Corbyn and Sultana.
Why can’t the Lib Dems ever overtake the Tories, even just for one poll? We seem to move in concert with them between pollsters. Perhaps because both voter groups are now demographically similar?
The difference between Reform on 27% and Reform on 33% is vast in terms of FPTP seats. What is YG doing in its sampling that’s so different from so many others?
I’ve not looked at this specific poll but in their recent polls they have a tendency to down weight 2024 non voters which is where a substantial chunk of Reform’s support comes from, other pollsters are a bit more generous.
Before our low IQ posters smear YouGov this is a policy YouGov has followed since their founding in 2000 because outside of plebiscites non voters do not turn out to vote.
GE 2024’s low turnout should be considered when factoring in non voters this time; a lot of 2019 Tories stayed at home and I’d expect the majority of them to be saying they’d vote refute now. I doubt they be habitual non voters
If it’s a policy YG have followed since their foundation, there’s no need to look at this specific poll. We have the answer for YG finding lower Reform scores
These are habitual non voters, the last time this lost voted was in 2016 and haven’t voted in general elections since probably 2001/05.
Good morning from Portugal where Euronews is reporting that Germany has lost its top spot for asylum claims. It’s behind France and Spain but all three are looking at nearly 80K per year.
Also had a pleasant afternoon chatting to a US couple from Texas who have departed/fled the US by using the property purchase/ eventual residency route which takes up to five years.
So it appears you’re not an immigrant if you are able to purchase property. So would more people be welcome to the UK if they helped prop up the property market?
I’m guessing this comment is supposed to be a bit arch and withering? Funnily enough I doubt most people would be upset about hundreds of thousands of immigrants coming to the UK if they passed the same sort of golden visa requirements that Texans to Portugal need to.
If 500,000 people had come to the uk who had to buy property over a certain value rather than have the state house them in hotels, had to set up/move businesses or invest a minimum amount in the country to get their visa rather than the state providing money for food, healthcare etc then again, not sure people would be finding it a huge problem.
The people who are in Portugal on the golden visas are also providing their documentation up front - who they are, where they are coming from, how they made their money, background and understanding rather than claiming to have no documentation and no proof of their good standing, qualifications, nationality, age.
So a completely different situation.
Not quite. I’m searching for a PB consensus on the types of incomer we need as a nation. Not which group we should treat differently.
Starmer apparently calling his party the 'Patriots' and Farage is a plastic Patriot
Why does he continue to mimic Farage and the right ?
Because he doesn’t want to give the right total ownership of the patriot vote. It’s pretty simple really.
Because he is doing it in the most pathetic "plastic union jack hat" manner. Which puts off his existing voters and puts off everyone else.
Attlee was undeniably patriotic - as much so as Churchill - maybe take a gander at how he did that. It was policies based on inner beliefs. It wasn't by subcontracting his conscience to the Law Lords....
Are greens really on 12%? They’ve had a bit of news coverage because of Polanski. Perhaps the hard left vote is consolidating around them given the ongoing will they won’t they with Corbyn and Sultana.
Why can’t the Lib Dems ever overtake the Tories, even just for one poll? We seem to move in concert with them between pollsters. Perhaps because both voter groups are now demographically similar?
The difference between Reform on 27% and Reform on 33% is vast in terms of FPTP seats. What is YG doing in its sampling that’s so different from so many others?
I’ve not looked at this specific poll but in their recent polls they have a tendency to down weight 2024 non voters which is where a substantial chunk of Reform’s support comes from, other pollsters are a bit more generous.
Before our low IQ posters smear YouGov this is a policy YouGov has followed since their founding in 2000 because outside of plebiscites non voters do not turn out to vote.
GE 2024’s low turnout should be considered when factoring in non voters this time; a lot of 2019 Tories stayed at home and I’d expect the majority of them to be saying they’d vote refute now. I doubt they be habitual non voters
If it’s a policy YG have followed since their foundation, there’s no need to look at this specific poll. We have the answer for YG finding lower Reform scores
These are habitual non voters, the last time this lost voted was in 2016 and haven’t voted in general elections since probably 2001/05.
Hang on, are you saying YouGov are down-weighting those who didn't vote in 2019 and 2024 rather than just 2024. There are no guarantees with turnout, but pollsters need to be careful with looking at 2024 turnout.
Starmer apparently calling his party the 'Patriots' and Farage is a plastic Patriot
Why does he continue to mimic Farage and the right ?
Because he doesn’t want to give the right total ownership of the patriot vote. It’s pretty simple really.
Because he is doing it in the most pathetic "plastic union jack hat" manner. Which puts off his existing voters and puts off everyone else.
Attlee was undeniably patriotic - as much so as Churchill - maybe take a gander at how he did that. It was policies based on inner beliefs. It wasn't by subcontracting his conscience to the Law Lords....
What is patriotism anyway? Like "British Culture" it means a lot of differing and contradictory things depending on who you speak to.
Anyway, Starmer seems to want to cement a loyalist in as deputy so as to wholly Pasokify the Labour Party. What is the point in power if you do nothing with it?
Starmer apparently calling his party the 'Patriots' and Farage is a plastic Patriot
Why does he continue to mimic Farage and the right ?
Because he doesn’t want to give the right total ownership of the patriot vote. It’s pretty simple really.
Starmer has no political antenna. "We are patriots" means nothing. Farage suggesting that an asylum seeker murdered the three little girls in Southport on Labour's watch is a far more compelling "patriotic" narrative. Labour would be better off highlighting Farage's fawning eulogies for Putin.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Starmer apparently calling his party the 'Patriots' and Farage is a plastic Patriot
Why does he continue to mimic Farage and the right ?
Because he's a clueless twit?
I think "Plastic Patriot" has some bite.
As would a narrative that patriotism is about building up the UK whilst addressing problems, not demonising it as Farage was doing in Washington. I thought that Starmer's line at PMQ last week was not strong enough on Farage; we'll see what happens today.
He can also be attacked for his distortions and fabrications, but that's a different vector.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
It’s the age old story…
Collect underpants ???? Profit / cost savings
(No picture because well this site doesn’t like them)
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
Are greens really on 12%? They’ve had a bit of news coverage because of Polanski. Perhaps the hard left vote is consolidating around them given the ongoing will they won’t they with Corbyn and Sultana.
Why can’t the Lib Dems ever overtake the Tories, even just for one poll? We seem to move in concert with them between pollsters. Perhaps because both voter groups are now demographically similar?
The difference between Reform on 27% and Reform on 33% is vast in terms of FPTP seats. What is YG doing in its sampling that’s so different from so many others?
I’ve not looked at this specific poll but in their recent polls they have a tendency to down weight 2024 non voters which is where a substantial chunk of Reform’s support comes from, other pollsters are a bit more generous.
Before our low IQ posters smear YouGov this is a policy YouGov has followed since their founding in 2000 because outside of plebiscites non voters do not turn out to vote.
GE 2024’s low turnout should be considered when factoring in non voters this time; a lot of 2019 Tories stayed at home and I’d expect the majority of them to be saying they’d vote refute now. I doubt they be habitual non voters
If it’s a policy YG have followed since their foundation, there’s no need to look at this specific poll. We have the answer for YG finding lower Reform scores
These are habitual non voters, the last time this lost voted was in 2016 and haven’t voted in general elections since probably 2001/05.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
Guardian's list of runners in deputy leader race is a bit white and middle class. I can't see the members being happy, understandably as it suggests McSweeney has total control.
I am non white, perhaps I should become Labour's deputy leader?
Nobody cares about class, people with class do not talk about class and well...
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
There's a distinction between the direct civil service (eg Sir Humphrey) and employees of what used to be Quangos but are more commonly called agencies. But in practice they are all civil servants. The differences include oversight and control by a board (e.g. the British Museum board) rather than direct control by the minister, and varied salary and conditions (though usually using the Civil Service pension scheme).
Starmer apparently calling his party the 'Patriots' and Farage is a plastic Patriot
Why does he continue to mimic Farage and the right ?
Because he doesn’t want to give the right total ownership of the patriot vote. It’s pretty simple really.
Because he is doing it in the most pathetic "plastic union jack hat" manner. Which puts off his existing voters and puts off everyone else.
Attlee was undeniably patriotic - as much so as Churchill - maybe take a gander at how he did that. It was policies based on inner beliefs. It wasn't by subcontracting his conscience to the Law Lords....
That's not how Conservatives portrayed Atlee at the time of course. Churchill accused Atlee of plotting to introduce a Gestapo in the 1945 election!
@ZiaYusufUK · 7h Reform will transform the civil service from a bloated, failed organisation hostile to the interests of the British people into a lean, performant machine that makes our country proud. 🇬🇧
On the face of it, this doesn't sound like anything to be worried about. What do you see as problematic with it?
The risk is the criteria will involve a politicisation of the civil service
Honestly it can't be worse than what we have today.
For example, my dad is executor for his best friend's will, he died a year or so ago. The estate value was barely over the IHT limit, the tax is all paid and yet a year later the probate office is still in jobsworth mode asking for the original will, even though multiple copies have been provided, they had the original previously and have sent it back but for whatever reason they need it again.
This is a tiny, tiny bit of officialdom needed for a nothing size estate where the tax has already all been paid and yet the probate office, the state, is making nonsense paperwork and hassle for my dad as executor and the beneficiaries who still can't close the book on the death of their father.
In what world is this a good job? How have the civil servants in the probate office helped anyone with their nonsense bureaucracy in this instance? Who benefits from them not just getting it done, there isn't going to be some mad revelation which means the estate will suddenly be worth 10x more and loads of tax will be payable. It's this kind of shit that's causing the nation to slow down, these useless bureaucrats sticking their noses in to justify their jobs and pensions and making life miserable for ordinary people.
Get rid of them all I say, 50% cuts in the bureaucracy and stop interfering in people's lives.
As I mentioned a couple of weeks back I'm going through this as executor for my own father. I expect to encounter much state stupidity along the way, including I am told a wait of 16 weeks from submission to probate being granted.
Today I've had a letter from the DWP. It says "yes, we owe the estate some money, please tell us where to send it along with a probate letter".
Except nowhere in the letter does it state a how much they owe. A number which I need in order to obtain said probate.
So, I will have to ring them up, and ask them to send another letter. At which point they will no doubt demand several reams of paperwork to prove I am permitted to see said value. Why not just send everything needed the first time? Even Yorkshire Water, yes, Yorkshire Water managed that.
I can of course calculate it roughly myself - approximately 1 week of state pension, a trivial amount in the grand scheme of things - but HMRC will want the exact figure in writing so that they can claim their 40%.
Ho hum. At least I'm not paying for a solicitor to chase this up (yet).
Is it any wonder I'm thinking of giving enough away to stop the government getting a penny?
FPT but from my experience it is perfectly acceptable to use estimated figures for the probate if you are held up on stuff, especially chickenfeed stuff, like this. Thje figures have to be stated as explicitly estimated. This is a godsend with stuff that is dragging on, especially small stuff. But do check the instructions on your probate paperwork (different for Scotland IIRC).
Plus stuff crops up even months or years after probate. Some is completely unexpected. E.g. my late mother had bought shares in the RBS flotation that caused all the trouble, and was paid compo years after her demise; she had life assurance policies on my dad's life which didn't pay out till he died a decade later; and it turned out that one life assurance company had underpaid by 14K, and so on - I only found out when it occurred to me when doing the final wrap up that the rate of return was suspiciously low ... so I didn't finally settle her estate (I think!) for 10 years after probate.
The main thing, as I understand it, is that HMRC get a sufficiently detailed probate valuation up front to assess whether IHT is liable or not and, if so, to get their chunk before anyone else does.
If there is no IHT payable, it's up to the executor to tell them if enough dosh comes in later to change the figures upward enough to hit the magic IHT level.
If IHT turns out to have been overpaid - usually if a house sells for less than the probate valuation - then you can claim the overpaid IHT back.
Edit: I forget HMRC's wording when they accept the proibate, but they basically say"okay, you've signed this, and that's done, but you have to let us know if anything happens to change the levels of tax due"
Thanks, yes - I expect an estimate will suffice but it would be nice to get things right. It just leaves more things to tie up when you'd much rather just get it over with.
I don't understand why they would send such a letter though - it seems to be deliberately unhelpful.
Maybe there is some legal nicety that I am missing, but it just gives the impression that one department doesn't talk to another. Who and what are these processes for?
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
It is true that if you get layers of management they slow everything down by demanding input into everything in order to justify their jobs.
It is also however true that when redundancies are carried out it tends not to be the management that get the push.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
The Merryn Talks Money podcast had three segments on it from her Edinburgh fringe show.
One discussed the topic you’re not allowed to mention.
The panel were emphatic. Jobs will go and quickly. Some will replace but not enough. The tax revenue will be lost and we need to retrain ASAP. Over 50% of the people who drove for a,living for example.
Luke Tryl has let out a few details of this week's MiC polling taken over the weekend till yesterday (not the VI though) - nothing amazingly eye watering but some polling confirmation of what we might all have expected By 69 to 12 more had heard about the Rayner stuff than the Reform Conference (19% neither) Labour most seen as divided (-36) followed by Tories (-25) with Reform not seen as divided (+22) - not surprising over a glitzy conference weekend? And Farage has small approval boost but not above previous highs with Starmer at his lowest ever with them (-44 but only a point below the previous low equalled last week)
I am back from Scotland late last night and I fly out again this afternoon. Make it stop
Not a good day to be travelling to an airport in London if you use public transport - no tubes or DLR.
As I imagine you travel light, you can get to Heathrow on one (or two or possible three) of Sadiq Khan's wonderful Superloop buses or get a bus to a Thameslink train if you're going to Gatwick (can't quite imagine the lead travel correspondent of the Flint Knappers going from Gatwick, Luton or Stansted).
I am back from Scotland late last night and I fly out again this afternoon. Make it stop
Yeah. 4 days doing the North Coast 500, getting home yesterday. A "holiday" where I shot 6 films and edited 2 of them on the move in the evenings. Now at my desk for 1 day before setting off on a 4 day business trip where I plan to shoot at least another 3 films - and will be continuing to edit the 300 or so film clips into films 3-6 of my NC500 series.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
There's a distinction between the direct civil service (eg Sir Humphrey) and employees of what used to be Quangos but are more commonly called agencies. But in practice they are all civil servants. The differences include oversight and control by a board (e.g. the British Museum board) rather than direct control by the minister, and varied salary and conditions (though usually using the Civil Service pension scheme).
HMCTS is an Executive Agency, meaning they are etablished civil servants but accountable to a board which is accountable to a Secretary of State. Quangos were more arms-length and usually legally separate bodies.
"Executive Agency" sounds funky, but it is actually a Civil Service insult, it means they don't do policy like a proper department would.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
There's a distinction between the direct civil service (eg Sir Humphrey) and employees of what used to be Quangos but are more commonly called agencies. But in practice they are all civil servants. The differences include oversight and control by a board (e.g. the British Museum board) rather than direct control by the minister, and varied salary and conditions (though usually using the Civil Service pension scheme).
I just went to https://www.civilservicejobs.service.gov.uk/csr/index.cgi and there were lots of HM Courts and Tribunal Service jobs listed, but it doesn't include British Museum jobs (or NHS, or university). As this supports my position, I am now declaring that website to be the final arbiter of such matters.
Guardian's list of runners in deputy leader race is a bit white and middle class. I can't see the members being happy, understandably as it suggests McSweeney has total control.
Ribeiro-Addy is not white.
And the Fab Four (Starmer, Lammy, Mahmood, Reeves) are already half and half.
How to you allocate them to the chips and rice, respectively?
(Confused the hell out of me at one of my first canteen lunches when I worked in Cardiff and the lady serving my curry asked whether I wanted half and half - half and half of what?!)
@ZiaYusufUK · 7h Reform will transform the civil service from a bloated, failed organisation hostile to the interests of the British people into a lean, performant machine that makes our country proud. 🇬🇧
On the face of it, this doesn't sound like anything to be worried about. What do you see as problematic with it?
The risk is the criteria will involve a politicisation of the civil service
Honestly it can't be worse than what we have today.
For example, my dad is executor for his best friend's will, he died a year or so ago. The estate value was barely over the IHT limit, the tax is all paid and yet a year later the probate office is still in jobsworth mode asking for the original will, even though multiple copies have been provided, they had the original previously and have sent it back but for whatever reason they need it again.
This is a tiny, tiny bit of officialdom needed for a nothing size estate where the tax has already all been paid and yet the probate office, the state, is making nonsense paperwork and hassle for my dad as executor and the beneficiaries who still can't close the book on the death of their father.
In what world is this a good job? How have the civil servants in the probate office helped anyone with their nonsense bureaucracy in this instance? Who benefits from them not just getting it done, there isn't going to be some mad revelation which means the estate will suddenly be worth 10x more and loads of tax will be payable. It's this kind of shit that's causing the nation to slow down, these useless bureaucrats sticking their noses in to justify their jobs and pensions and making life miserable for ordinary people.
Get rid of them all I say, 50% cuts in the bureaucracy and stop interfering in people's lives.
As I mentioned a couple of weeks back I'm going through this as executor for my own father. I expect to encounter much state stupidity along the way, including I am told a wait of 16 weeks from submission to probate being granted.
Today I've had a letter from the DWP. It says "yes, we owe the estate some money, please tell us where to send it along with a probate letter".
Except nowhere in the letter does it state a how much they owe. A number which I need in order to obtain said probate.
So, I will have to ring them up, and ask them to send another letter. At which point they will no doubt demand several reams of paperwork to prove I am permitted to see said value. Why not just send everything needed the first time? Even Yorkshire Water, yes, Yorkshire Water managed that.
I can of course calculate it roughly myself - approximately 1 week of state pension, a trivial amount in the grand scheme of things - but HMRC will want the exact figure in writing so that they can claim their 40%.
Ho hum. At least I'm not paying for a solicitor to chase this up (yet).
Is it any wonder I'm thinking of giving enough away to stop the government getting a penny?
FPT but from my experience it is perfectly acceptable to use estimated figures for the probate if you are held up on stuff, especially chickenfeed stuff, like this. Thje figures have to be stated as explicitly estimated. This is a godsend with stuff that is dragging on, especially small stuff. But do check the instructions on your probate paperwork (different for Scotland IIRC).
Plus stuff crops up even months or years after probate. Some is completely unexpected. E.g. my late mother had bought shares in the RBS flotation that caused all the trouble, and was paid compo years after her demise; she had life assurance policies on my dad's life which didn't pay out till he died a decade later; and it turned out that one life assurance company had underpaid by 14K, and so on - I only found out when it occurred to me when doing the final wrap up that the rate of return was suspiciously low ... so I didn't finally settle her estate (I think!) for 10 years after probate.
The main thing, as I understand it, is that HMRC get a sufficiently detailed probate valuation up front to assess whether IHT is liable or not and, if so, to get their chunk before anyone else does.
If there is no IHT payable, it's up to the executor to tell them if enough dosh comes in later to change the figures upward enough to hit the magic IHT level.
If IHT turns out to have been overpaid - usually if a house sells for less than the probate valuation - then you can claim the overpaid IHT back.
Edit: I forget HMRC's wording when they accept the proibate, but they basically say"okay, you've signed this, and that's done, but you have to let us know if anything happens to change the levels of tax due"
Thanks, yes - I expect an estimate will suffice but it would be nice to get things right. It just leaves more things to tie up when you'd much rather just get it over with.
I don't understand why they would send such a letter though - it seems to be deliberately unhelpful.
Maybe there is some legal nicety that I am missing, but it just gives the impression that one department doesn't talk to another. Who and what are these processes for?
I know the feeling only too well. I was trapped by slow and useless respondents the first time I was an executor and trying to DIY when a friend, whose father had died some years before, came to stay, had a look at the bumf and made the above comments based on his experience.
I think you're right trying to get some sense out of the DWP (*not* my favourite dept to deal with as an executor). BY all means see if it works. But if it is any help I have checked and confirmed that in the end I had to say "Arrears of State Pension due from DWP Wolverhampton (estimated) £whatever" on my application for Confirmation (Probate to you down south).
Incidentally, my friend used a solicitor to fill in the bumf (at a suitably negotiated flat rate fee, much less than usual) once he had all the data together - there are weird ways of getting trapped if you don't use the right format. I'd do that next time myself. I've also seen it recommended to use an accountant for that purpose - supposedly more accurate than the average solicitor, which would not surprise me at all.
PS. Don't forget the DWP doesn't work like ordinary folk. It doesn't issue P60s for the State Pension, for a start, nor does the income from the SP get calculated like ordinary income (also confusing the hell out of executors), both of which are going to confuse a hell of a lot of oldies when they come under IT this year. Thingsd would be even worse if the HMRC hadn't started telling you what the SP is each year.
I am back from Scotland late last night and I fly out again this afternoon. Make it stop
Yeah. 4 days doing the North Coast 500, getting home yesterday. A "holiday" where I shot 6 films and edited 2 of them on the move in the evenings. Now at my desk for 1 day before setting off on a 4 day business trip where I plan to shoot at least another 3 films - and will be continuing to edit the 300 or so film clips into films 3-6 of my NC500 series.
Just Get an Editor...
We inflict it on ourselves to be fair. You often come across as a bit like me (that’s not an insult (I hope)) - quite manic and moody and you like to live and work intensely. It’s fun when it’s good but when it’s not you think Why did I ever agree to this??!
Also I had a kitchen disaster yesterday which meant I spent half the day trying to avoid my flat melting down, remotely, from the A1 near Thirsk
A minor nightmare. And yet in a year I bet I’ll look back on this period and think Ooh that was quite a fun if hectic few weeks. All that travel…
Are greens really on 12%? They’ve had a bit of news coverage because of Polanski. Perhaps the hard left vote is consolidating around them given the ongoing will they won’t they with Corbyn and Sultana.
Why can’t the Lib Dems ever overtake the Tories, even just for one poll? We seem to move in concert with them between pollsters. Perhaps because both voter groups are now demographically similar?
The difference between Reform on 27% and Reform on 33% is vast in terms of FPTP seats. What is YG doing in its sampling that’s so different from so many others?
I’ve not looked at this specific poll but in their recent polls they have a tendency to down weight 2024 non voters which is where a substantial chunk of Reform’s support comes from, other pollsters are a bit more generous.
Before our low IQ posters smear YouGov this is a policy YouGov has followed since their founding in 2000 because outside of plebiscites non voters do not turn out to vote.
GE 2024’s low turnout should be considered when factoring in non voters this time; a lot of 2019 Tories stayed at home and I’d expect the majority of them to be saying they’d vote refute now. I doubt they be habitual non voters
If it’s a policy YG have followed since their foundation, there’s no need to look at this specific poll. We have the answer for YG finding lower Reform scores
These are habitual non voters, the last time this lost voted was in 2016 and haven’t voted in general elections since probably 2001/05.
Good morning from Portugal where Euronews is reporting that Germany has lost its top spot for asylum claims. It’s behind France and Spain but all three are looking at nearly 80K per year.
Also had a pleasant afternoon chatting to a US couple from Texas who have departed/fled the US by using the property purchase/ eventual residency route which takes up to five years.
So it appears you’re not an immigrant if you are able to purchase property. So would more people be welcome to the UK if they helped prop up the property market?
I’m guessing this comment is supposed to be a bit arch and withering? Funnily enough I doubt most people would be upset about hundreds of thousands of immigrants coming to the UK if they passed the same sort of golden visa requirements that Texans to Portugal need to.
If 500,000 people had come to the uk who had to buy property over a certain value rather than have the state house them in hotels, had to set up/move businesses or invest a minimum amount in the country to get their visa rather than the state providing money for food, healthcare etc then again, not sure people would be finding it a huge problem.
The people who are in Portugal on the golden visas are also providing their documentation up front - who they are, where they are coming from, how they made their money, background and understanding rather than claiming to have no documentation and no proof of their good standing, qualifications, nationality, age.
So a completely different situation.
Not quite. I’m searching for a PB consensus on the types of incomer we need as a nation. Not which group we should treat differently.
Er isn't that they same thing? If we need certain types of incomer, we treat the others differently, ie don't let them in
Farage made his comments as he expects many Labour MPs to defect to Corbyn's new party and vote down the government. However there is no sign of that and indeed Polanski will lead the Greens in a way that splits the left of Labour vote
Starmer apparently calling his party the 'Patriots' and Farage is a plastic Patriot
Why does he continue to mimic Farage and the right ?
Because he doesn’t want to give the right total ownership of the patriot vote. It’s pretty simple really.
Because he is doing it in the most pathetic "plastic union jack hat" manner. Which puts off his existing voters and puts off everyone else.
Attlee was undeniably patriotic - as much so as Churchill - maybe take a gander at how he did that. It was policies based on inner beliefs. It wasn't by subcontracting his conscience to the Law Lords....
That's not how Conservatives portrayed Atlee at the time of course. Churchill accused Atlee of plotting to introduce a Gestapo in the 1945 election!
That's just Churchill playing politics. He was good at that.
Which raises the question as to whether we've discussed the Guardian's feature on the cash and carry (PM-wise) Boris Johnson?
Starmer apparently calling his party the 'Patriots' and Farage is a plastic Patriot
Why does he continue to mimic Farage and the right ?
Because he doesn’t want to give the right total ownership of the patriot vote. It’s pretty simple really.
Because he is doing it in the most pathetic "plastic union jack hat" manner. Which puts off his existing voters and puts off everyone else.
Attlee was undeniably patriotic - as much so as Churchill - maybe take a gander at how he did that. It was policies based on inner beliefs. It wasn't by subcontracting his conscience to the Law Lords....
That's not how Conservatives portrayed Atlee at the time of course. Churchill accused Atlee of plotting to introduce a Gestapo in the 1945 election!
That's just Churchill playing politics. He was good at that.
I would suggest the result of the 1945 election in the aftermath of the Gestapo remark suggests his political skills were not *that* good.
I am back from Scotland late last night and I fly out again this afternoon. Make it stop
Not a good day to be travelling to an airport in London if you use public transport - no tubes or DLR.
As I imagine you travel light, you can get to Heathrow on one (or two or possible three) of Sadiq Khan's wonderful Superloop buses or get a bus to a Thameslink train if you're going to Gatwick (can't quite imagine the lead travel correspondent of the Flint Knappers going from Gatwick, Luton or Stansted).
Lizzie line is running - although it charges extra to get to Heathrow
Farage made his comments as he expects many Labour MPs to defect to Corbyn's new party and vote down the government. However there is no sign of that and indeed Polanski will lead the Greens in a way that splits the left of Labour vote
Farage made his comments to encourage the party workers to be busy and because the party supporters live in a fantasy world. I don't think he believes what he said.
Bridget Phillipson may have the backing of the Cabinet, but she's also going to have an awful lot of problematic headlines over the current OFSTED fiasco* to deal with over the next few weeks.
For me, she's a lay.
*As distinct from the multiple previous OFSTED fiascoes.
On to slightly more serious matters and YouGov continues to tease with a poll which doesn't suggest a nationwide landslide for Reform just yet.
Another poll showing the Conservatives in the high teens - nearly a month since the party was at 20% so a step down. Party Conference season will be interesting - Reform have had theirs already and the Conservatives don't meet until October 5-8 in Manchester.
As for Norway overnight, the "Red" bloc of five parties went from 100 to 87 and the "Blue" bloc from 69 to 82 so progress for the centre right (and in partlcular Progress who had a very strong result to confirm their position as the leading opposition party).
Labour did okay - it was a poor result for the Socialist Left and Centre and on the other side for the Conservatives and the Liberals. As often happens when you have two very different parties at the top of the tree, you get a polarisation around those two (even in multi party systems).
This is why "two-party systems" are so hard to break down especially if the two leading parties are distinctive and why this is such bad news for the little fish (who can survive). Those who argue Labour and Reform will dominate the next GE have a point but smaller parties will survive as the little fish do in the jaws of the sharks.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
It is true that if you get layers of management they slow everything down by demanding input into everything in order to justify their jobs.
It is also however true that when redundancies are carried out it tends not to be the management that get the push.
Middle managers are often made redundant, members of the board tend to get pushed out by each other or shareholders
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
There aren't going to be any cuts under Labour. Reeves will increase taxes yet further next month on property, shareholders and business and Labour MPs will demand the government tax the rich until the pips squeek before any public sector and civil service cuts just as they rejected welfare cuts
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
Starmer apparently calling his party the 'Patriots' and Farage is a plastic Patriot
Why does he continue to mimic Farage and the right ?
Because he doesn’t want to give the right total ownership of the patriot vote. It’s pretty simple really.
Because he is doing it in the most pathetic "plastic union jack hat" manner. Which puts off his existing voters and puts off everyone else.
Attlee was undeniably patriotic - as much so as Churchill - maybe take a gander at how he did that. It was policies based on inner beliefs. It wasn't by subcontracting his conscience to the Law Lords....
That's not how Conservatives portrayed Atlee at the time of course. Churchill accused Atlee of plotting to introduce a Gestapo in the 1945 election!
That's just Churchill playing politics. He was good at that.
I would suggest the result of the 1945 election in the aftermath of the Gestapo remark suggests his political skills were not *that* good.
I know plenty of people who play games who aren't very good at them. When I could get to watch our local football team I saw lots of such.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
Why the feck are you posting on here? At 09:50 on a working day? I can do it because I’m self employed - and I employ you with my taxes. I am your boss
Further to my previous post about the details from MiC the other two figures released were 'chaotic vs competent' for the govt at a worst ever 77-23 (and a reminder from Luke Tryl that's much if what did for the Tories) And on sleaze 44% Labour govt and Last Tory govt equally sleazy 32% Labour govt more sleazy 24% last Tory govt more sleazy
Starmer apparently calling his party the 'Patriots' and Farage is a plastic Patriot
Why does he continue to mimic Farage and the right ?
Because he doesn’t want to give the right total ownership of the patriot vote. It’s pretty simple really.
Because he is doing it in the most pathetic "plastic union jack hat" manner. Which puts off his existing voters and puts off everyone else.
Attlee was undeniably patriotic - as much so as Churchill - maybe take a gander at how he did that. It was policies based on inner beliefs. It wasn't by subcontracting his conscience to the Law Lords....
That's not how Conservatives portrayed Atlee at the time of course. Churchill accused Atlee of plotting to introduce a Gestapo in the 1945 election!
That's just Churchill playing politics. He was good at that.
I would suggest the result of the 1945 election in the aftermath of the Gestapo remark suggests his political skills were not *that* good.
Was he not widely ridiculed for the comment at the time ?
@ZiaYusufUK · 7h Reform will transform the civil service from a bloated, failed organisation hostile to the interests of the British people into a lean, performant machine that makes our country proud. 🇬🇧
On the face of it, this doesn't sound like anything to be worried about. What do you see as problematic with it?
The risk is the criteria will involve a politicisation of the civil service
Honestly it can't be worse than what we have today.
For example, my dad is executor for his best friend's will, he died a year or so ago. The estate value was barely over the IHT limit, the tax is all paid and yet a year later the probate office is still in jobsworth mode asking for the original will, even though multiple copies have been provided, they had the original previously and have sent it back but for whatever reason they need it again.
This is a tiny, tiny bit of officialdom needed for a nothing size estate where the tax has already all been paid and yet the probate office, the state, is making nonsense paperwork and hassle for my dad as executor and the beneficiaries who still can't close the book on the death of their father.
In what world is this a good job? How have the civil servants in the probate office helped anyone with their nonsense bureaucracy in this instance? Who benefits from them not just getting it done, there isn't going to be some mad revelation which means the estate will suddenly be worth 10x more and loads of tax will be payable. It's this kind of shit that's causing the nation to slow down, these useless bureaucrats sticking their noses in to justify their jobs and pensions and making life miserable for ordinary people.
Get rid of them all I say, 50% cuts in the bureaucracy and stop interfering in people's lives.
As I mentioned a couple of weeks back I'm going through this as executor for my own father. I expect to encounter much state stupidity along the way, including I am told a wait of 16 weeks from submission to probate being granted.
Today I've had a letter from the DWP. It says "yes, we owe the estate some money, please tell us where to send it along with a probate letter".
Except nowhere in the letter does it state a how much they owe. A number which I need in order to obtain said probate.
So, I will have to ring them up, and ask them to send another letter. At which point they will no doubt demand several reams of paperwork to prove I am permitted to see said value. Why not just send everything needed the first time? Even Yorkshire Water, yes, Yorkshire Water managed that.
I can of course calculate it roughly myself - approximately 1 week of state pension, a trivial amount in the grand scheme of things - but HMRC will want the exact figure in writing so that they can claim their 40%.
Ho hum. At least I'm not paying for a solicitor to chase this up (yet).
Is it any wonder I'm thinking of giving enough away to stop the government getting a penny?
FPT but from my experience it is perfectly acceptable to use estimated figures for the probate if you are held up on stuff, especially chickenfeed stuff, like this. Thje figures have to be stated as explicitly estimated. This is a godsend with stuff that is dragging on, especially small stuff. But do check the instructions on your probate paperwork (different for Scotland IIRC).
Plus stuff crops up even months or years after probate. Some is completely unexpected. E.g. my late mother had bought shares in the RBS flotation that caused all the trouble, and was paid compo years after her demise; she had life assurance policies on my dad's life which didn't pay out till he died a decade later; and it turned out that one life assurance company had underpaid by 14K, and so on - I only found out when it occurred to me when doing the final wrap up that the rate of return was suspiciously low ... so I didn't finally settle her estate (I think!) for 10 years after probate.
The main thing, as I understand it, is that HMRC get a sufficiently detailed probate valuation up front to assess whether IHT is liable or not and, if so, to get their chunk before anyone else does.
If there is no IHT payable, it's up to the executor to tell them if enough dosh comes in later to change the figures upward enough to hit the magic IHT level.
If IHT turns out to have been overpaid - usually if a house sells for less than the probate valuation - then you can claim the overpaid IHT back.
Edit: I forget HMRC's wording when they accept the proibate, but they basically say"okay, you've signed this, and that's done, but you have to let us know if anything happens to change the levels of tax due"
Thanks, yes - I expect an estimate will suffice but it would be nice to get things right. It just leaves more things to tie up when you'd much rather just get it over with.
I don't understand why they would send such a letter though - it seems to be deliberately unhelpful.
Maybe there is some legal nicety that I am missing, but it just gives the impression that one department doesn't talk to another. Who and what are these processes for?
I know the feeling, but -
Also: as well as the previous PS which you may or many not have missed, I'd emphasise that there are inevitably loose ends anyway, so it's not as if you won't have to deal with HMRC after the grant of probate. You will usually need to get in touch with HMRC anyway, to deal with tax during the executry period, eg dividends or bank interest that accrued after demise until the accounts were closed. That isn't part of the IHT calculation for the probate valuation (made as if on the day of demise) but forms part of the estate to account to beneficiaries, of course. But in my experience that's usually very simple.
As for keeping the probate valuation updated, I just updated the Excel spreadsheet I used for the probate application with anything new, using red ink, so I could keep track of the pluses and minuses and whether it changed the IHT. It didn't, in my cases, but was ready to use if HMRC ever asked.
Are greens really on 12%? They’ve had a bit of news coverage because of Polanski. Perhaps the hard left vote is consolidating around them given the ongoing will they won’t they with Corbyn and Sultana.
Why can’t the Lib Dems ever overtake the Tories, even just for one poll? We seem to move in concert with them between pollsters. Perhaps because both voter groups are now demographically similar?
The difference between Reform on 27% and Reform on 33% is vast in terms of FPTP seats. What is YG doing in its sampling that’s so different from so many others?
I’ve not looked at this specific poll but in their recent polls they have a tendency to down weight 2024 non voters which is where a substantial chunk of Reform’s support comes from, other pollsters are a bit more generous.
Before our low IQ posters smear YouGov this is a policy YouGov has followed since their founding in 2000 because outside of plebiscites non voters do not turn out to vote.
GE 2024’s low turnout should be considered when factoring in non voters this time; a lot of 2019 Tories stayed at home and I’d expect the majority of them to be saying they’d vote refute now. I doubt they be habitual non voters
If it’s a policy YG have followed since their foundation, there’s no need to look at this specific poll. We have the answer for YG finding lower Reform scores
These are habitual non voters, the last time this lost voted was in 2016 and haven’t voted in general elections since probably 2001/05.
Hang on, are you saying YouGov are down-weighting those who didn't vote in 2019 and 2024 rather than just 2024. There are no guarantees with turnout, but pollsters need to be careful with looking at 2024 turnout.
You get down weighted more the more elections you haven’t voted in.
So if you didn’t vote in 2024 but did vote in 2019 you won’t get down weighted as much as somebody who didn’t vote in 2024 and 2019.
Labour may have arrived in office with no/few plans for using office, but the polls are certainly a motivation to Labour to get things going for the better.
Further to my previous post about the details from MiC the other two figures released were 'chaotic vs competent' for the govt at a worst ever 77-23 (and a reminder from Luke Tryl that's much if what did for the Tories) And on sleaze 44% Labour govt and Last Tory govt equally sleazy 32% Labour govt more sleazy 24% last Tory govt more sleazy
All governments end in sleaze.
Starmer's government was born in sleaze and has got worse.
Are greens really on 12%? They’ve had a bit of news coverage because of Polanski. Perhaps the hard left vote is consolidating around them given the ongoing will they won’t they with Corbyn and Sultana.
Why can’t the Lib Dems ever overtake the Tories, even just for one poll? We seem to move in concert with them between pollsters. Perhaps because both voter groups are now demographically similar?
The difference between Reform on 27% and Reform on 33% is vast in terms of FPTP seats. What is YG doing in its sampling that’s so different from so many others?
I’ve not looked at this specific poll but in their recent polls they have a tendency to down weight 2024 non voters which is where a substantial chunk of Reform’s support comes from, other pollsters are a bit more generous.
Before our low IQ posters smear YouGov this is a policy YouGov has followed since their founding in 2000 because outside of plebiscites non voters do not turn out to vote.
GE 2024’s low turnout should be considered when factoring in non voters this time; a lot of 2019 Tories stayed at home and I’d expect the majority of them to be saying they’d vote refute now. I doubt they be habitual non voters
If it’s a policy YG have followed since their foundation, there’s no need to look at this specific poll. We have the answer for YG finding lower Reform scores
These are habitual non voters, the last time this lost voted was in 2016 and haven’t voted in general elections since probably 2001/05.
Hang on, are you saying YouGov are down-weighting those who didn't vote in 2019 and 2024 rather than just 2024. There are no guarantees with turnout, but pollsters need to be careful with looking at 2024 turnout.
You get down weighted more the more elections you haven’t voted in.
So if you didn’t vote in 2024 but did vote in 2019 you won’t get down weighted as much as somebody who didn’t vote in 2024 and 2019.
I wasn't aware pollsters asked about elections prior to the previous one. I wonder what recall is like? People saying they didn't vote in any are probably telling the truth, but we know there are plenty who voted in 2019 but not 2024.
Farage made his comments as he expects many Labour MPs to defect to Corbyn's new party and vote down the government. However there is no sign of that and indeed Polanski will lead the Greens in a way that splits the left of Labour vote
Mm. On that point the header could be "I bet Nigel hopes."
I am back from Scotland late last night and I fly out again this afternoon. Make it stop
Yeah. 4 days doing the North Coast 500, getting home yesterday. A "holiday" where I shot 6 films and edited 2 of them on the move in the evenings. Now at my desk for 1 day before setting off on a 4 day business trip where I plan to shoot at least another 3 films - and will be continuing to edit the 300 or so film clips into films 3-6 of my NC500 series.
Just Get an Editor...
We inflict it on ourselves to be fair. You often come across as a bit like me (that’s not an insult (I hope)) - quite manic and moody and you like to live and work intensely. It’s fun when it’s good but when it’s not you think Why did I ever agree to this??!
Also I had a kitchen disaster yesterday which meant I spent half the day trying to avoid my flat melting down, remotely, from the A1 near Thirsk
A minor nightmare. And yet in a year I bet I’ll look back on this period and think Ooh that was quite a fun if hectic few weeks. All that travel…
I’ll forget the angst
Frantically spinning plates. I work best with some adrenaline flowing through my veins.
Guardian's list of runners in deputy leader race is a bit white and middle class. I can't see the members being happy, understandably as it suggests McSweeney has total control.
I am non white, perhaps I should become Labour's deputy leader?
Nobody cares about class, people with class do not talk about class and well...
Labour cares about class as it was set up to be the party of the working class. Although it is now more the party of the public sector, human rights lawyers and most ethnic minorities
Are greens really on 12%? They’ve had a bit of news coverage because of Polanski. Perhaps the hard left vote is consolidating around them given the ongoing will they won’t they with Corbyn and Sultana.
Why can’t the Lib Dems ever overtake the Tories, even just for one poll? We seem to move in concert with them between pollsters. Perhaps because both voter groups are now demographically similar?
The difference between Reform on 27% and Reform on 33% is vast in terms of FPTP seats. What is YG doing in its sampling that’s so different from so many others?
I’ve not looked at this specific poll but in their recent polls they have a tendency to down weight 2024 non voters which is where a substantial chunk of Reform’s support comes from, other pollsters are a bit more generous.
Before our low IQ posters smear YouGov this is a policy YouGov has followed since their founding in 2000 because outside of plebiscites non voters do not turn out to vote.
GE 2024’s low turnout should be considered when factoring in non voters this time; a lot of 2019 Tories stayed at home and I’d expect the majority of them to be saying they’d vote refute now. I doubt they be habitual non voters
If it’s a policy YG have followed since their foundation, there’s no need to look at this specific poll. We have the answer for YG finding lower Reform scores
These are habitual non voters, the last time this lost voted was in 2016 and haven’t voted in general elections since probably 2001/05.
Hang on, are you saying YouGov are down-weighting those who didn't vote in 2019 and 2024 rather than just 2024. There are no guarantees with turnout, but pollsters need to be careful with looking at 2024 turnout.
You get down weighted more the more elections you haven’t voted in.
So if you didn’t vote in 2024 but did vote in 2019 you won’t get down weighted as much as somebody who didn’t vote in 2024 and 2019.
I wasn't aware pollsters asked about elections prior to the previous one. I wonder what recall is like? People saying they didn't vote in any are probably telling the truth, but we know there are plenty who voted in 2019 but not 2024.
As part of YouGov’s panel they always ask you the day or two after a general election how you voted, so there’s less false recall with them and other online pollsters as their system knows how you voted.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
Why the feck are you posting on here? At 09:50 on a working day? I can do it because I’m self employed - and I employ you with my taxes. I am your boss
Get back to the office you lazy scrounger
I'm using an annual leave day to care for my sick husband if you want to know. I can't use them to actually go and travel because he's too ill so I might as well use them to provide a bit of extra care than I can provide in between the hours I spend at work trying to ensure that the public get a say in their government. I've already been threatened with a law suit this week. Why don't you go back to writing subsidised puff pieces and try to have a bit more empathy for people who work extremely hard.
Are greens really on 12%? They’ve had a bit of news coverage because of Polanski. Perhaps the hard left vote is consolidating around them given the ongoing will they won’t they with Corbyn and Sultana.
Why can’t the Lib Dems ever overtake the Tories, even just for one poll? We seem to move in concert with them between pollsters. Perhaps because both voter groups are now demographically similar?
The difference between Reform on 27% and Reform on 33% is vast in terms of FPTP seats. What is YG doing in its sampling that’s so different from so many others?
I’ve not looked at this specific poll but in their recent polls they have a tendency to down weight 2024 non voters which is where a substantial chunk of Reform’s support comes from, other pollsters are a bit more generous.
Before our low IQ posters smear YouGov this is a policy YouGov has followed since their founding in 2000 because outside of plebiscites non voters do not turn out to vote.
GE 2024’s low turnout should be considered when factoring in non voters this time; a lot of 2019 Tories stayed at home and I’d expect the majority of them to be saying they’d vote refute now. I doubt they be habitual non voters
If it’s a policy YG have followed since their foundation, there’s no need to look at this specific poll. We have the answer for YG finding lower Reform scores
These are habitual non voters, the last time this lost voted was in 2016 and haven’t voted in general elections since probably 2001/05.
Hang on, are you saying YouGov are down-weighting those who didn't vote in 2019 and 2024 rather than just 2024. There are no guarantees with turnout, but pollsters need to be careful with looking at 2024 turnout.
You get down weighted more the more elections you haven’t voted in.
So if you didn’t vote in 2024 but did vote in 2019 you won’t get down weighted as much as somebody who didn’t vote in 2024 and 2019.
I wasn't aware pollsters asked about elections prior to the previous one. I wonder what recall is like? People saying they didn't vote in any are probably telling the truth, but we know there are plenty who voted in 2019 but not 2024.
YouGov run an account system so they can go back and look at what you’ve said before.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
It is true that if you get layers of management they slow everything down by demanding input into everything in order to justify their jobs.
It is also however true that when redundancies are carried out it tends not to be the management that get the push.
Middle managers are often made redundant, members of the board tend to get pushed out by each other or shareholders
Guardian's list of runners in deputy leader race is a bit white and middle class. I can't see the members being happy, understandably as it suggests McSweeney has total control.
I am non white, perhaps I should become Labour's deputy leader?
Nobody cares about class, people with class do not talk about class and well...
I think Ms Phillipson is a very decent person, but her background is actually too typical of the Labour party that understands some harsh realities but not others.
Track: Joins Labour party age 15 From Comp to Oxford to read history and languages Two years working local government Three years managing the charity founded by her mother. This brings us to 2010. Thereafter MP for safe local Labour seat..
The charity: The excellent charity founded by her mother is not a charity in the sense that the general public understand them - funded by voluntary donations of the general public. It is nearly 100% funded by the taxpayer.
Would it be good to have a deputy leader who had started a business, employed people in a set up where you made a profit or went bust and so on?
We need a Labour party that understands why pubs are closing, hospitality is in crisis, why energy costs are a problem for manufacturing and knows what a sovereign debt crisis is.
Are there any Labour MPs who have worked in business, whether manufacturing, hospitality or construction, other than as a part time job when they were a student?
Further to my previous post about the details from MiC the other two figures released were 'chaotic vs competent' for the govt at a worst ever 77-23 (and a reminder from Luke Tryl that's much if what did for the Tories) And on sleaze 44% Labour govt and Last Tory govt equally sleazy 32% Labour govt more sleazy 24% last Tory govt more sleazy
All governments end in sleaze.
Starmer's government was born in sleaze and has got worse.
Indeed. It will make it much harder for Labour to get tactical votes. Which means there are some seats they hold where their 2024 vote will collapse harder than any poll fall. Thers quite a few Labour held seats in the South and East id expect them to now come third in.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
When I was looking to change jobs recently, there were a few possible Civil Service roles, but the public narrative (and likelihood of government encrapifying conditions and pay further in response) was a disincentive to apply. That and the laughable pay for many of the tech/data/science roles.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
Why the feck are you posting on here? At 09:50 on a working day? I can do it because I’m self employed - and I employ you with my taxes. I am your boss
Get back to the office you lazy scrounger
I'm using an annual leave day to care for my sick husband if you want to know. I can't use them to actually go and travel because he's too ill so I might as well use them to provide a bit of extra care than I can provide in between the hours I spend at work trying to ensure that the public get a say in their government. I've already been threatened with a law suit this week. Why don't you go back to writing subsidised puff pieces and try to have a bit more empathy for people who work extremely hard.
Sympathies on your husband. Life is tough
Nonetheless we have to get a grip on the malingering workshy muppets who mainly staff government offices. This attitude of mine might be coloured by the fact I am now waiting ANOTHER YEAR for foreign tax documents to be stamped by HMRC. All they have to do is stamp them. It’s taking a year. And my agent has just told me this is now costing me £££
We need to sack 30% of government staff - literally a third - and halve the incomes and pensions of the rest, and tell them if they don’t like it they too will be sacked
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
Why the feck are you posting on here? At 09:50 on a working day? I can do it because I’m self employed - and I employ you with my taxes. I am your boss
Get back to the office you lazy scrounger
I'm using an annual leave day to care for my sick husband if you want to know. I can't use them to actually go and travel because he's too ill so I might as well use them to provide a bit of extra care than I can provide in between the hours I spend at work trying to ensure that the public get a say in their government. I've already been threatened with a law suit this week. Why don't you go back to writing subsidised puff pieces and try to have a bit more empathy for people who work extremely hard.
Civil servants get annual leave? Feather-bedded lazy fekkers
Are greens really on 12%? They’ve had a bit of news coverage because of Polanski. Perhaps the hard left vote is consolidating around them given the ongoing will they won’t they with Corbyn and Sultana.
Why can’t the Lib Dems ever overtake the Tories, even just for one poll? We seem to move in concert with them between pollsters. Perhaps because both voter groups are now demographically similar?
The difference between Reform on 27% and Reform on 33% is vast in terms of FPTP seats. What is YG doing in its sampling that’s so different from so many others?
I’ve not looked at this specific poll but in their recent polls they have a tendency to down weight 2024 non voters which is where a substantial chunk of Reform’s support comes from, other pollsters are a bit more generous.
Before our low IQ posters smear YouGov this is a policy YouGov has followed since their founding in 2000 because outside of plebiscites non voters do not turn out to vote.
GE 2024’s low turnout should be considered when factoring in non voters this time; a lot of 2019 Tories stayed at home and I’d expect the majority of them to be saying they’d vote refute now. I doubt they be habitual non voters
If it’s a policy YG have followed since their foundation, there’s no need to look at this specific poll. We have the answer for YG finding lower Reform scores
These are habitual non voters, the last time this lost voted was in 2016 and haven’t voted in general elections since probably 2001/05.
Hang on, are you saying YouGov are down-weighting those who didn't vote in 2019 and 2024 rather than just 2024. There are no guarantees with turnout, but pollsters need to be careful with looking at 2024 turnout.
You get down weighted more the more elections you haven’t voted in.
So if you didn’t vote in 2024 but did vote in 2019 you won’t get down weighted as much as somebody who didn’t vote in 2024 and 2019.
I wasn't aware pollsters asked about elections prior to the previous one. I wonder what recall is like? People saying they didn't vote in any are probably telling the truth, but we know there are plenty who voted in 2019 but not 2024.
YouGov run an account system so they can go back and look at what you’ve said before.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
Why the feck are you posting on here? At 09:50 on a working day? I can do it because I’m self employed - and I employ you with my taxes. I am your boss
Get back to the office you lazy scrounger
I'm using an annual leave day to care for my sick husband if you want to know. I can't use them to actually go and travel because he's too ill so I might as well use them to provide a bit of extra care than I can provide in between the hours I spend at work trying to ensure that the public get a say in their government. I've already been threatened with a law suit this week. Why don't you go back to writing subsidised puff pieces and try to have a bit more empathy for people who work extremely hard.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
Why the feck are you posting on here? At 09:50 on a working day? I can do it because I’m self employed - and I employ you with my taxes. I am your boss
Get back to the office you lazy scrounger
I'm using an annual leave day to care for my sick husband if you want to know. I can't use them to actually go and travel because he's too ill so I might as well use them to provide a bit of extra care than I can provide in between the hours I spend at work trying to ensure that the public get a say in their government. I've already been threatened with a law suit this week. Why don't you go back to writing subsidised puff pieces and try to have a bit more empathy for people who work extremely hard.
Sympathies on your husband. Life is tough
Nonetheless we have to get a grip on the malingering workshy muppets who mainly staff government offices. This attitude of mine might be coloured by the fact I am now waiting ANOTHER YEAR for foreign tax documents to be stamped by HMRC. All they have to do is stamp them. It’s taking a year. And my agent has just told me this is now costing me £££
We need to sack 30% of government staff - literally a third - and halve the incomes and pensions of the rest, and tell them if they don’t like it they too will be sacked
And then wait even longer?
The focus on staff numbers is arse about face. Keep the current processes and we probably need more civil servants. Remove some of the pointless process (the stamp sounds like one, from your previous posts) and there will be roles that can be lost without impacting on service.
Focus on streamlining processes, then set the workforce to the correct level for that.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
Why the feck are you posting on here? At 09:50 on a working day? I can do it because I’m self employed - and I employ you with my taxes. I am your boss
Get back to the office you lazy scrounger
I'm using an annual leave day to care for my sick husband if you want to know. I can't use them to actually go and travel because he's too ill so I might as well use them to provide a bit of extra care than I can provide in between the hours I spend at work trying to ensure that the public get a say in their government. I've already been threatened with a law suit this week. Why don't you go back to writing subsidised puff pieces and try to have a bit more empathy for people who work extremely hard.
Sympathies on your husband. Life is tough
Nonetheless we have to get a grip on the malingering workshy muppets who mainly staff government offices. This attitude of mine might be coloured by the fact I am now waiting ANOTHER YEAR for foreign tax documents to be stamped by HMRC. All they have to do is stamp them. It’s taking a year. And my agent has just told me this is now costing me £££
We need to sack 30% of government staff - literally a third - and halve the incomes and pensions of the rest, and tell them if they don’t like it they too will be sacked
Sorry to be that guy, but 30% isn't 'literally' a third. Thank goodness you don't have a palsied hand on the running of a civil service department.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
Why the feck are you posting on here? At 09:50 on a working day? I can do it because I’m self employed - and I employ you with my taxes. I am your boss
Get back to the office you lazy scrounger
I'm using an annual leave day to care for my sick husband if you want to know. I can't use them to actually go and travel because he's too ill so I might as well use them to provide a bit of extra care than I can provide in between the hours I spend at work trying to ensure that the public get a say in their government. I've already been threatened with a law suit this week. Why don't you go back to writing subsidised puff pieces and try to have a bit more empathy for people who work extremely hard.
Sympathies on your husband. Life is tough
Nonetheless we have to get a grip on the malingering workshy muppets who mainly staff government offices. This attitude of mine might be coloured by the fact I am now waiting ANOTHER YEAR for foreign tax documents to be stamped by HMRC. All they have to do is stamp them. It’s taking a year. And my agent has just told me this is now costing me £££
We need to sack 30% of government staff - literally a third - and halve the incomes and pensions of the rest, and tell them if they don’t like it they too will be sacked
And then wait even longer?
The focus on staff numbers is arse about face. Keep the current processes and we probably need more civil servants. Remove some of the pointless process (the stamp sounds like one, from your previous posts) and there will be roles that can be lost without impacting on service.
Focus on streamlining processes, then set the workforce to the correct level for that.
This is the kind of stuff Phillipson faces over OFSTED. Will it hit the mainstream? I don't know. But remember, this change is very much her idea.
New Ofsted report cards will create more anxiety on leaders with already “concerningly high” stress levels, a wellbeing impact report commissioned by the watchdog has warned.
The inspectorate commissioned Sinéad Mc Brearty, CEO of the charity Education Support, to carry out the review as part of its proposed report card reforms. The report was published today.
The report warned that the “baseline stress level of school and college leaders is concerningly high”.
The revised framework “does not reduce the pressure on leaders to achieve a desirable outcome. The consequence of not meeting the expected standards of the revised framework will remain high stakes in nature.”.
It also raised concerns that the transition from a “known quantity” framework to something unknown “creates additional anxiety about ‘getting it right’.
“The more granular judgments received by providers are unlikely to be uniformly ‘good’. This will be very stressful for many leaders.”
Leader anxiety and stress will “in many (though not all) cases, spillover and increase pressure on staff teams to perform well in inspection”.
The revised framework “will require leaders to evidence impact across a larger number of evaluation areas, which may drive new forms of bureaucracy and data collection in schools and colleges."
(Just to reiterate- that's OFSTED's *own* analysis of the likely success or failure.)
Are greens really on 12%? They’ve had a bit of news coverage because of Polanski. Perhaps the hard left vote is consolidating around them given the ongoing will they won’t they with Corbyn and Sultana.
Why can’t the Lib Dems ever overtake the Tories, even just for one poll? We seem to move in concert with them between pollsters. Perhaps because both voter groups are now demographically similar?
The difference between Reform on 27% and Reform on 33% is vast in terms of FPTP seats. What is YG doing in its sampling that’s so different from so many others?
I’ve not looked at this specific poll but in their recent polls they have a tendency to down weight 2024 non voters which is where a substantial chunk of Reform’s support comes from, other pollsters are a bit more generous.
Before our low IQ posters smear YouGov this is a policy YouGov has followed since their founding in 2000 because outside of plebiscites non voters do not turn out to vote.
GE 2024’s low turnout should be considered when factoring in non voters this time; a lot of 2019 Tories stayed at home and I’d expect the majority of them to be saying they’d vote refute now. I doubt they be habitual non voters
If it’s a policy YG have followed since their foundation, there’s no need to look at this specific poll. We have the answer for YG finding lower Reform scores
These are habitual non voters, the last time this lost voted was in 2016 and haven’t voted in general elections since probably 2001/05.
Hang on, are you saying YouGov are down-weighting those who didn't vote in 2019 and 2024 rather than just 2024. There are no guarantees with turnout, but pollsters need to be careful with looking at 2024 turnout.
You get down weighted more the more elections you haven’t voted in.
So if you didn’t vote in 2024 but did vote in 2019 you won’t get down weighted as much as somebody who didn’t vote in 2024 and 2019.
I wasn't aware pollsters asked about elections prior to the previous one. I wonder what recall is like? People saying they didn't vote in any are probably telling the truth, but we know there are plenty who voted in 2019 but not 2024.
YouGov run an account system so they can go back and look at what you’ve said before.
Feels like YouGov could be very good or very bad.
In 2024 on their normal VI polls they picked up the Lab drop in to the 30s pretty well (but not well enough) and were a little bullish on Reform and Bearish on Tories and they slightly overdid the LDs and Greens
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
Why the feck are you posting on here? At 09:50 on a working day? I can do it because I’m self employed - and I employ you with my taxes. I am your boss
Get back to the office you lazy scrounger
I'm using an annual leave day to care for my sick husband if you want to know. I can't use them to actually go and travel because he's too ill so I might as well use them to provide a bit of extra care than I can provide in between the hours I spend at work trying to ensure that the public get a say in their government. I've already been threatened with a law suit this week. Why don't you go back to writing subsidised puff pieces and try to have a bit more empathy for people who work extremely hard.
Sympathies on your husband. Life is tough
Nonetheless we have to get a grip on the malingering workshy muppets who mainly staff government offices. This attitude of mine might be coloured by the fact I am now waiting ANOTHER YEAR for foreign tax documents to be stamped by HMRC. All they have to do is stamp them. It’s taking a year. And my agent has just told me this is now costing me £££
We need to sack 30% of government staff - literally a third - and halve the incomes and pensions of the rest, and tell them if they don’t like it they too will be sacked
And then wait even longer?
The focus on staff numbers is arse about face. Keep the current processes and we probably need more civil servants. Remove some of the pointless process (the stamp sounds like one, from your previous posts) and there will be roles that can be lost without impacting on service.
Focus on streamlining processes, then set the workforce to the correct level for that.
Leon is just being silly, again.
Spectator authors can't be relied on as the fount of all wisdom? Shocked to the cortex of my lumbar vertebral centra.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
Why the feck are you posting on here? At 09:50 on a working day? I can do it because I’m self employed - and I employ you with my taxes. I am your boss
Get back to the office you lazy scrounger
I'm using an annual leave day to care for my sick husband if you want to know. I can't use them to actually go and travel because he's too ill so I might as well use them to provide a bit of extra care than I can provide in between the hours I spend at work trying to ensure that the public get a say in their government. I've already been threatened with a law suit this week. Why don't you go back to writing subsidised puff pieces and try to have a bit more empathy for people who work extremely hard.
Sympathies on your husband. Life is tough
Nonetheless we have to get a grip on the malingering workshy muppets who mainly staff government offices. This attitude of mine might be coloured by the fact I am now waiting ANOTHER YEAR for foreign tax documents to be stamped by HMRC. All they have to do is stamp them. It’s taking a year. And my agent has just told me this is now costing me £££
We need to sack 30% of government staff - literally a third - and halve the incomes and pensions of the rest, and tell them if they don’t like it they too will be sacked
That’s the problem with indiscriminate cost cutting without investing in automation and process improvement first
You don’t reduce the workload, you just reduce the number of people doing it so things get dragged out forever as things important to you never reach the top of anyone’s inbox
It’s why I regard anyone saying you can just cut public sector spending is a fool. Unless you stop doing something completely cutting staff without prior investment in improvements will temporarily save you money while annoying anyone impacted but eventually you will need to employ even more people to deal with the backlog
I'm enjoying some of the Twitter frothing about automating the tube. "ah but the DLR" and "ah but automatic train operation" etc
So lets quickly poke a stick at it. Get rid of the driver so that there can be no strikes. The driver on an ATO route only opens and closes the doors and presses proceed in normal operation. "that's level 3 automation" says one commentator "only one step from level 4 with no human". Which apparently is how the DLR operates.
Well no. The DLR train has a "Passenger Service Agent" who opens and closes the doors and presses proceed in normal operation. Which is the same role as a Victoria Line driver albeit not sat at the front. But they are drivers - when the system has a fault or there is disruption the PSA sits at the front, opens the desk and drives manually.
So even the DLR is not devoid of humans. And it was designed to be driverless. The tube wasn't. You need platform doors for that - and the curved tube lines are a major problem. As are the narrow tunnels with no evacuation walkway.
So to remove the human operator you'd need to rebore the tunnels and rebuild the curved stations. Costing £vast. Which is why nobody other than occasional Tory MPs / journalists suggest it.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
Why the feck are you posting on here? At 09:50 on a working day? I can do it because I’m self employed - and I employ you with my taxes. I am your boss
Get back to the office you lazy scrounger
I'm using an annual leave day to care for my sick husband if you want to know. I can't use them to actually go and travel because he's too ill so I might as well use them to provide a bit of extra care than I can provide in between the hours I spend at work trying to ensure that the public get a say in their government. I've already been threatened with a law suit this week. Why don't you go back to writing subsidised puff pieces and try to have a bit more empathy for people who work extremely hard.
Sympathies on your husband. Life is tough
Nonetheless we have to get a grip on the malingering workshy muppets who mainly staff government offices. This attitude of mine might be coloured by the fact I am now waiting ANOTHER YEAR for foreign tax documents to be stamped by HMRC. All they have to do is stamp them. It’s taking a year. And my agent has just told me this is now costing me £££
We need to sack 30% of government staff - literally a third - and halve the incomes and pensions of the rest, and tell them if they don’t like it they too will be sacked
Thanks. The problems with your foreign tax documents aren't because people aren't working hard though. There are a lot of things that can be done to reform the Civil Service and make it operate more efficiently. Any party that has the balls to do that without scapegoating staff would have my respect. It would require hard choices from the government that might be unpopular and that they'd have to live with.
Like why is it that you require a physical stamp on your documents at all? However, the person who's job it is to stamp the documents will be working hard trying to clear a backlog of thousands of them. Your document will not be stamped quicker if the person doing it has less pension or feels more insecure in their job. Go after the system not the people who are trying very hard to make it work.
These Boris leaks in The Guardian today look absolutely toxic. The implication is that Johnson was personally corrupt and enriched himself while in public office. If that story sticks, it's not just the ministerial code that has been breached, but the law. Let's see if the story has wings, but the optics are appalling.
It’s toxic but for another reasons
The accusations are marginal.
They are (from the article)
1. He asked a Saudi official to give a pitch to MbS 2. He was paid a fee by a hedge fund after meeting Venezuela’s PM 3. While in government he met Peter Thiel 4. He hosted an event in Downing Street that seems like it was in breach of lockdown rules and was to “honour” the person that refurbished the flat 5. He earned £5m from making speeches
And in the intro they talk about Greensill (which was genuinely appalling) and complain that he is “publicly subsidised” for claiming the allowance the state pays for office support.
The only ones that might possibly be open to criticism *for the accusation that the Guardian is making* (3&4 could easily be criticised for other things) are 1&2.
Basically they are trying to throw chaff in the air to diminish the damage to Labour caused by Rayner
This sort of journalism is irresponsible and toxic to public trust (such as it is) in politicians.
This has nothing to do with a tit-for-tat retaliation over Rayner.
It is completely remarkable that those who cheered Rayner's defenestration are defending this as either lies or "Boris will be Boris". Will the broadcast media take any of this up? No.
I still believe the most egregious act by any post war Minister, Profumo included, was a Foreign Secretary throwing off his minders to attend a party run by a KGB grandee. A story which at the time it occurred barely raised an eyebrow.
I’m not defending this as lies or as “Boris will be Boris”. At best it’s unedifying.
And I didn’t cheer Rayner’s defenestration- I think it was the right outcome but I have a lot of sympathy for her. She didn’t think and she messed up.
I am critical of the way that the Guardian has framed it - these don’t strike me as especially serious transgressions and trying to claim they are undermines confidence in the system. It’s not so much “tit for tat” as “they are all as bad as each other”
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
Why the feck are you posting on here? At 09:50 on a working day? I can do it because I’m self employed - and I employ you with my taxes. I am your boss
Get back to the office you lazy scrounger
I'm using an annual leave day to care for my sick husband if you want to know. I can't use them to actually go and travel because he's too ill so I might as well use them to provide a bit of extra care than I can provide in between the hours I spend at work trying to ensure that the public get a say in their government. I've already been threatened with a law suit this week. Why don't you go back to writing subsidised puff pieces and try to have a bit more empathy for people who work extremely hard.
Sympathies on your husband. Life is tough
Nonetheless we have to get a grip on the malingering workshy muppets who mainly staff government offices. This attitude of mine might be coloured by the fact I am now waiting ANOTHER YEAR for foreign tax documents to be stamped by HMRC. All they have to do is stamp them. It’s taking a year. And my agent has just told me this is now costing me £££
We need to sack 30% of government staff - literally a third - and halve the incomes and pensions of the rest, and tell them if they don’t like it they too will be sacked
Thanks. The problems with your foreign tax documents aren't because people aren't working hard though. There are a lot of things that can be done to reform the Civil Service and make it operate more efficiently. Any party that has the balls to do that without scapegoating staff would have my respect. It would require hard choices from the government that might be unpopular and that they'd have to live with.
Like why is it that you require a physical stamp on your documents at all? However, the person who's job it is to stamp the documents will be working hard trying to clear a backlog of thousands of them. Your document will not be stamped quicker if the person doing it has less pension or feels more insecure in their job. Go after the system not the people who are trying very hard to make it work.
I’d go after the people at the top, first. If we are going to be serious
The Nu10k. The people that run the departments and make the decisions and make £200k a year. Tell them: Make it work and make it work NOW or you will be out of a job and no pension and you’ll be sweeping streets if you’re lucky. No more “failing upwards”
His letter is very interesting, as it's much closer to a first-hand account from.an official than previous testimonies. He recounts details, alongside his personal credentials.
Whether anything emerges from these testimonies in the longer-term, I have no idea.
Guardian's list of runners in deputy leader race is a bit white and middle class. I can't see the members being happy, understandably as it suggests McSweeney has total control.
Ribeiro-Addy is not white.
And the Fab Four (Starmer, Lammy, Mahmood, Reeves) are already half and half.
How to you allocate them to the chips and rice, respectively?
(Confused the hell out of me at one of my first canteen lunches when I worked in Cardiff and the lady serving my curry asked whether I wanted half and half - half and half of what?!)
Curry half and half is one of the great Welsh culinary inventions.
On to slightly more serious matters and YouGov continues to tease with a poll which doesn't suggest a nationwide landslide for Reform just yet.
Another poll showing the Conservatives in the high teens - nearly a month since the party was at 20% so a step down. Party Conference season will be interesting - Reform have had theirs already and the Conservatives don't meet until October 5-8 in Manchester.
As for Norway overnight, the "Red" bloc of five parties went from 100 to 87 and the "Blue" bloc from 69 to 82 so progress for the centre right (and in partlcular Progress who had a very strong result to confirm their position as the leading opposition party).
Labour did okay - it was a poor result for the Socialist Left and Centre and on the other side for the Conservatives and the Liberals. As often happens when you have two very different parties at the top of the tree, you get a polarisation around those two (even in multi party systems).
This is why "two-party systems" are so hard to break down especially if the two leading parties are distinctive and why this is such bad news for the little fish (who can survive). Those who argue Labour and Reform will dominate the next GE have a point but smaller parties will survive as the little fish do in the jaws of the sharks.
I wouldn't say it was progress for the centre right. The centre right parties mostly dropped back. It was progress for the Progress Party (Fremskrittspartiet), who are not centre right, but hard right populists in a MAGA mould. They want "Norway first" policies, deny climate change, don't like gay marriages, have considered a ban on all "non-Western" immigration.
Guardian's list of runners in deputy leader race is a bit white and middle class. I can't see the members being happy, understandably as it suggests McSweeney has total control.
I am non white, perhaps I should become Labour's deputy leader?
Nobody cares about class, people with class do not talk about class and well...
Labour cares about class as it was set up to be the party of the working class. Although it is now more the party of the public sector, human rights lawyers and most ethnic minorities
Minor public school and Oxbridge – Labour. Major public school and Oxbridge – Conservative.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
Why the feck are you posting on here? At 09:50 on a working day? I can do it because I’m self employed - and I employ you with my taxes. I am your boss
Get back to the office you lazy scrounger
I'm using an annual leave day to care for my sick husband if you want to know. I can't use them to actually go and travel because he's too ill so I might as well use them to provide a bit of extra care than I can provide in between the hours I spend at work trying to ensure that the public get a say in their government. I've already been threatened with a law suit this week. Why don't you go back to writing subsidised puff pieces and try to have a bit more empathy for people who work extremely hard.
Sympathies on your husband. Life is tough
Nonetheless we have to get a grip on the malingering workshy muppets who mainly staff government offices. This attitude of mine might be coloured by the fact I am now waiting ANOTHER YEAR for foreign tax documents to be stamped by HMRC. All they have to do is stamp them. It’s taking a year. And my agent has just told me this is now costing me £££
We need to sack 30% of government staff - literally a third - and halve the incomes and pensions of the rest, and tell them if they don’t like it they too will be sacked
Sorry to be that guy, but 30% isn't 'literally' a third. Thank goodness you don't have a palsied hand on the running of a civil service department.
That Leon can't do numbers isn't news on here!
And the size of the civil service has ballooned since, and to a significant extent due to, Brexit - which Leon voted for - intended get us out from under all those EU "bureaucrats" (who were roughly equivalent in number to the "bureaucrats" employed by Surrey County Council).
These Boris leaks in The Guardian today look absolutely toxic. The implication is that Johnson was personally corrupt and enriched himself while in public office. If that story sticks, it's not just the ministerial code that has been breached, but the law. Let's see if the story has wings, but the optics are appalling.
It’s toxic but for another reasons
The accusations are marginal.
They are (from the article)
1. He asked a Saudi official to give a pitch to MbS 2. He was paid a fee by a hedge fund after meeting Venezuela’s PM 3. While in government he met Peter Thiel 4. He hosted an event in Downing Street that seems like it was in breach of lockdown rules and was to “honour” the person that refurbished the flat 5. He earned £5m from making speeches
And in the intro they talk about Greensill (which was genuinely appalling) and complain that he is “publicly subsidised” for claiming the allowance the state pays for office support.
The only ones that might possibly be open to criticism *for the accusation that the Guardian is making* (3&4 could easily be criticised for other things) are 1&2.
Basically they are trying to throw chaff in the air to diminish the damage to Labour caused by Rayner
This sort of journalism is irresponsible and toxic to public trust (such as it is) in politicians.
This has nothing to do with a tit-for-tat retaliation over Rayner.
It is completely remarkable that those who cheered Rayner's defenestration are defending this as either lies or "Boris will be Boris". Will the broadcast media take any of this up? No.
I still believe the most egregious act by any post war Minister, Profumo included, was a Foreign Secretary throwing off his minders to attend a party run by a KGB grandee. A story which at the time it occurred barely raised an eyebrow.
I’m not defending this as lies or as “Boris will be Boris”. At best it’s unedifying.
And I didn’t cheer Rayner’s defenestration- I think it was the right outcome but I have a lot of sympathy for her. She didn’t think and she messed up.
I am critical of the way that the Guardian has framed it - these don’t strike me as especially serious transgressions and trying to claim they are undermines confidence in the system. It’s not so much “tit for tat” as “they are all as bad as each other”
Rayner had to go because she broke the Ministerial Code. Johnson drove a horse and coaches through the Ministerial Code. Apparently he still has ambitions to return to Number 10.
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
Why the feck are you posting on here? At 09:50 on a working day? I can do it because I’m self employed - and I employ you with my taxes. I am your boss
Get back to the office you lazy scrounger
I'm using an annual leave day to care for my sick husband if you want to know. I can't use them to actually go and travel because he's too ill so I might as well use them to provide a bit of extra care than I can provide in between the hours I spend at work trying to ensure that the public get a say in their government. I've already been threatened with a law suit this week. Why don't you go back to writing subsidised puff pieces and try to have a bit more empathy for people who work extremely hard.
I am so sorry to hear that and wish you and your husband well
My daughter works in the DWP and she, with her colleagues, work very hard at improving the lives of those on benefits
Further to my previous post about the details from MiC the other two figures released were 'chaotic vs competent' for the govt at a worst ever 77-23 (and a reminder from Luke Tryl that's much if what did for the Tories) And on sleaze 44% Labour govt and Last Tory govt equally sleazy 32% Labour govt more sleazy 24% last Tory govt more sleazy
All governments end in sleaze.
Starmer's government was born in sleaze and has got worse.
To be fair, Blair's Government started with its own sleaze and kept going for 13 years but overall the longer a party is in power the more addicted to power it gets.
Guardian's list of runners in deputy leader race is a bit white and middle class. I can't see the members being happy, understandably as it suggests McSweeney has total control.
I am non white, perhaps I should become Labour's deputy leader?
Nobody cares about class, people with class do not talk about class and well...
I think Ms Phillipson is a very decent person, but her background is actually too typical of the Labour party that understands some harsh realities but not others.
Track: Joins Labour party age 15 From Comp to Oxford to read history and languages Two years working local government Three years managing the charity founded by her mother. This brings us to 2010. Thereafter MP for safe local Labour seat..
The charity: The excellent charity founded by her mother is not a charity in the sense that the general public understand them - funded by voluntary donations of the general public. It is nearly 100% funded by the taxpayer.
Would it be good to have a deputy leader who had started a business, employed people in a set up where you made a profit or went bust and so on?
We need a Labour party that understands why pubs are closing, hospitality is in crisis, why energy costs are a problem for manufacturing and knows what a sovereign debt crisis is.
Are there any Labour MPs who have worked in business, whether manufacturing, hospitality or construction, other than as a part time job when they were a student?
Re. the discussion in the last thread, the Probate Officer will be employed by HM Courts and Tribunal Service i.e. the most well known under-funded part of public life in the last 20 years. It isn’t the “civil service” as is commonly understood.
Isn't it? That's how I understood the "civil service"!
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
Coz they will be terrified they’ll be the next to go in the next round of cuts. Put the fear of god in them
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
This is the new £350m for the NHS delusion.
It’s really not. We are all going to experience the “fear of god” in the next few years, in regards to our careers and crafts - the civil service will and should be no exception. We should utilise the moment to make them WORK
As a Civil Servant myself, go to hell. I work my arse off in a background of rising abuse from the public due in no small part to the lazy pontificating of people like you.
Why the feck are you posting on here? At 09:50 on a working day? I can do it because I’m self employed - and I employ you with my taxes. I am your boss
Get back to the office you lazy scrounger
I'm using an annual leave day to care for my sick husband if you want to know. I can't use them to actually go and travel because he's too ill so I might as well use them to provide a bit of extra care than I can provide in between the hours I spend at work trying to ensure that the public get a say in their government. I've already been threatened with a law suit this week. Why don't you go back to writing subsidised puff pieces and try to have a bit more empathy for people who work extremely hard.
Sympathies on your husband. Life is tough
Nonetheless we have to get a grip on the malingering workshy muppets who mainly staff government offices. This attitude of mine might be coloured by the fact I am now waiting ANOTHER YEAR for foreign tax documents to be stamped by HMRC. All they have to do is stamp them. It’s taking a year. And my agent has just told me this is now costing me £££
We need to sack 30% of government staff - literally a third - and halve the incomes and pensions of the rest, and tell them if they don’t like it they too will be sacked
And then wait even longer?
The focus on staff numbers is arse about face. Keep the current processes and we probably need more civil servants. Remove some of the pointless process (the stamp sounds like one, from your previous posts) and there will be roles that can be lost without impacting on service.
Focus on streamlining processes, then set the workforce to the correct level for that.
Yes, it's not that we have too many staff, or that those staff aren't working hard. It's that so much of what gets done is so remarkably inefficient. So much of the efforts of the public sector go towards talking to other bits of the public sector.
Comments
Using patriotism as an attack or a virtue is almost meaningless anyway ; it means whatever people feel it means to them so is a kind of strawman
Enoch Powell said that he’d fight for England even if we had a communist government; that kind of patriotism, going completely against your own beliefs for your country, seems a bit much. If we had an Islamist government now, and were at war with a Christian country, I think I’d want us beaten. Interesting dilemma
I don’t get why it’s an issue. It’s just what happens. Most people just ignore it.
Attlee was undeniably patriotic - as much so as Churchill - maybe take a gander at how he did that. It was policies based on inner beliefs. It wasn't by subcontracting his conscience to the Law Lords....
Anyway, Starmer seems to want to cement a loyalist in as deputy so as to wholly Pasokify the Labour Party. What is the point in power if you do nothing with it?
I was puzzled on the last thread by a complaint that a government service was slow and therefore the solution proposed was to cut staff. How is that going to make the service better?
As would a narrative that patriotism is about building up the UK whilst addressing problems, not demonising it as Farage was doing in Washington. I thought that Starmer's line at PMQ last week was not strong enough on Farage; we'll see what happens today.
He can also be attacked for his distortions and fabrications, but that's a different vector.
It’s the age old story…
Collect underpants ???? Profit / cost savings
(No picture because well this site doesn’t like them)
Give them hard targets to meet and if they don’t meet them - gone
I am back from Scotland late last night and I fly out again this afternoon. Make it stop
I don't understand why they would send such a letter though - it seems to be deliberately unhelpful.
Maybe there is some legal nicety that I am missing, but it just gives the impression that one department doesn't talk to another. Who and what are these processes for?
It is also however true that when redundancies are carried out it tends not to be the management that get the push.
One discussed the topic you’re not allowed to mention.
The panel were emphatic. Jobs will go and quickly. Some will replace but not enough. The tax revenue will be lost and we need to retrain ASAP. Over 50% of the people who drove for a,living for example.
Glad the govt has that vision.
By 69 to 12 more had heard about the Rayner stuff than the Reform Conference (19% neither)
Labour most seen as divided (-36) followed by Tories (-25) with Reform not seen as divided (+22) - not surprising over a glitzy conference weekend?
And Farage has small approval boost but not above previous highs with Starmer at his lowest ever with them (-44 but only a point below the previous low equalled last week)
As I imagine you travel light, you can get to Heathrow on one (or two or possible three) of Sadiq Khan's wonderful Superloop buses or get a bus to a Thameslink train if you're going to Gatwick (can't quite imagine the lead travel correspondent of the Flint Knappers going from Gatwick, Luton or Stansted).
Just Get an Editor...
"Executive Agency" sounds funky, but it is actually a Civil Service insult, it means they don't do policy like a proper department would.
(Confused the hell out of me at one of my first canteen lunches when I worked in Cardiff and the lady serving my curry asked whether I wanted half and half - half and half of what?!)
I think you're right trying to get some sense out of the DWP (*not* my favourite dept to deal with as an executor). BY all means see if it works. But if it is any help I have checked and confirmed that in the end I had to say "Arrears of State Pension due from DWP Wolverhampton (estimated) £whatever" on my application for Confirmation (Probate to you down south).
Incidentally, my friend used a solicitor to fill in the bumf (at a suitably negotiated flat rate fee, much less than usual) once he had all the data together - there are weird ways of getting trapped if you don't use the right format. I'd do that next time myself. I've also seen it recommended to use an accountant for that purpose - supposedly more accurate than the average solicitor, which would not surprise me at all.
PS. Don't forget the DWP doesn't work like ordinary folk. It doesn't issue P60s for the State Pension, for a start, nor does the income from the SP get calculated like ordinary income (also confusing the hell out of executors), both of which are going to confuse a hell of a lot of oldies when they come under IT this year. Thingsd would be even worse if the HMRC hadn't started telling you what the SP is each year.
Also I had a kitchen disaster yesterday which meant I spent half the day trying to avoid my flat melting down, remotely, from the A1 near Thirsk
A minor nightmare. And yet in a year I bet I’ll look back on this period and think Ooh that was quite a fun if hectic few weeks. All that travel…
I’ll forget the angst
Which raises the question as to whether we've discussed the Guardian's feature on the cash and carry (PM-wise) Boris Johnson?
And Good Morning everybody.
For me, she's a lay.
*As distinct from the multiple previous OFSTED fiascoes.
On to slightly more serious matters and YouGov continues to tease with a poll which doesn't suggest a nationwide landslide for Reform just yet.
Another poll showing the Conservatives in the high teens - nearly a month since the party was at 20% so a step down. Party Conference season will be interesting - Reform have had theirs already and the Conservatives don't meet until October 5-8 in Manchester.
As for Norway overnight, the "Red" bloc of five parties went from 100 to 87 and the "Blue" bloc from 69 to 82 so progress for the centre right (and in partlcular Progress who had a very strong result to confirm their position as the leading opposition party).
Labour did okay - it was a poor result for the Socialist Left and Centre and on the other side for the Conservatives and the Liberals. As often happens when you have two very different parties at the top of the tree, you get a polarisation around those two (even in multi party systems).
This is why "two-party systems" are so hard to break down especially if the two leading parties are distinctive and why this is such bad news for the little fish (who can survive). Those who argue Labour and Reform will dominate the next GE have a point but smaller parties will survive as the little fish do in the jaws of the sharks.
Get back to the office you lazy scrounger
And on sleaze
44% Labour govt and Last Tory govt equally sleazy
32% Labour govt more sleazy
24% last Tory govt more sleazy
Also: as well as the previous PS which you may or many not have missed, I'd emphasise that there are inevitably loose ends anyway, so it's not as if you won't have to deal with HMRC after the grant of probate. You will usually need to get in touch with HMRC anyway, to deal with tax during the executry period, eg dividends or bank interest that accrued after demise until the accounts were closed. That isn't part of the IHT calculation for the probate valuation (made as if on the day of demise) but forms part of the estate to account to beneficiaries, of course. But in my experience that's usually very simple.
As for keeping the probate valuation updated, I just updated the Excel spreadsheet I used for the probate application with anything new, using red ink, so I could keep track of the pluses and minuses and whether it changed the IHT. It didn't, in my cases, but was ready to use if HMRC ever asked.
So if you didn’t vote in 2024 but did vote in 2019 you won’t get down weighted as much as somebody who didn’t vote in 2024 and 2019.
Starmer's government was born in sleaze and has got worse.
On that point the header could be "I bet Nigel hopes."
It will make it much harder for Labour to get tactical votes. Which means there are some seats they hold where their 2024 vote will collapse harder than any poll fall. Thers quite a few Labour held seats in the South and East id expect them to now come third in.
today. This chap, a geospatial intelligence analyst for the U.S. Air Force, looks particularly interesting.
https://x.com/SomewhereSkies/status/1965170365573071016
Nonetheless we have to get a grip on the malingering workshy muppets who mainly staff government offices. This attitude of mine might be coloured by the fact I am now waiting ANOTHER YEAR for foreign tax documents to be stamped by HMRC. All they have to do is stamp them. It’s taking a year. And my agent has just told me this is now costing me £££
We need to sack 30% of government staff - literally a third - and halve the incomes and pensions of the rest, and tell them if they don’t like it they too will be sacked
The focus on staff numbers is arse about face. Keep the current processes and we probably need more civil servants. Remove some of the pointless process (the stamp sounds like one, from your previous posts) and there will be roles that can be lost without impacting on service.
Focus on streamlining processes, then set the workforce to the correct level for that.
Thank goodness you don't have a palsied hand on the running of a civil service department.
New Ofsted report cards will create more anxiety on leaders with already “concerningly high” stress levels, a wellbeing impact report commissioned by the watchdog has warned.
The inspectorate commissioned Sinéad Mc Brearty, CEO of the charity Education Support, to carry out the review as part of its proposed report card reforms. The report was published today.
The report warned that the “baseline stress level of school and college leaders is concerningly high”.
The revised framework “does not reduce the pressure on leaders to achieve a desirable outcome. The consequence of not meeting the expected standards of the revised framework will remain high stakes in nature.”.
It also raised concerns that the transition from a “known quantity” framework to something unknown “creates additional anxiety about ‘getting it right’.
“The more granular judgments received by providers are unlikely to be uniformly ‘good’. This will be very stressful for many leaders.”
Leader anxiety and stress will “in many (though not all) cases, spillover and increase pressure on staff teams to perform well in inspection”.
The revised framework “will require leaders to evidence impact across a larger number of evaluation areas, which may drive new forms of bureaucracy and data collection in schools and colleges."
(Just to reiterate- that's OFSTED's *own* analysis of the likely success or failure.)
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/ofsted-report-cards-will-ramp-up-leader-anxiety-independent-review-says/
That’s the problem with indiscriminate cost cutting without investing in automation and process improvement first
You don’t reduce the workload, you just reduce the number of people doing it so things get dragged out forever as things important to you never reach the top of anyone’s inbox
It’s why I regard anyone saying you can just cut public sector spending is a fool. Unless you stop doing something completely cutting staff without prior investment in improvements will temporarily save you money while annoying anyone impacted but eventually you will need to employ even more people to deal with the backlog
Apart from those savvy enough to find a role as fluffers and inciters for the populist right ?
So lets quickly poke a stick at it. Get rid of the driver so that there can be no strikes. The driver on an ATO route only opens and closes the doors and presses proceed in normal operation. "that's level 3 automation" says one commentator "only one step from level 4 with no human". Which apparently is how the DLR operates.
Well no. The DLR train has a "Passenger Service Agent" who opens and closes the doors and presses proceed in normal operation. Which is the same role as a Victoria Line driver albeit not sat at the front. But they are drivers - when the system has a fault or there is disruption the PSA sits at the front, opens the desk and drives manually.
So even the DLR is not devoid of humans. And it was designed to be driverless. The tube wasn't. You need platform doors for that - and the curved tube lines are a major problem. As are the narrow tunnels with no evacuation walkway.
So to remove the human operator you'd need to rebore the tunnels and rebuild the curved stations. Costing £vast. Which is why nobody other than occasional Tory MPs / journalists suggest it.
Like why is it that you require a physical stamp on your documents at all? However, the person who's job it is to stamp the documents will be working hard trying to clear a backlog of thousands of them. Your document will not be stamped quicker if the person doing it has less pension or feels more insecure in their job. Go after the system not the people who are trying very hard to make it work.
Lucy Powell to announce she is running to be deputy Labour leader, HuffPost UK understands
And I didn’t cheer Rayner’s defenestration- I think it was the right outcome but I have a lot of sympathy for her. She didn’t think and she messed up.
I am critical of the way that the Guardian has framed it - these don’t strike me as especially serious transgressions and trying to claim they are undermines confidence in the system. It’s not so much “tit for tat” as “they are all as bad as each other”
The Nu10k. The people that run the departments and make the decisions and make £200k a year. Tell them: Make it work and make it work NOW or you will be out of a job and no pension and you’ll be sweeping streets if you’re lucky. No more “failing upwards”
Whether anything emerges from these testimonies in the longer-term, I have no idea.
Major public school and Oxbridge – Conservative.
And the size of the civil service has ballooned since, and to a significant extent due to, Brexit - which Leon voted for - intended get us out from under all those EU "bureaucrats" (who were roughly equivalent in number to the "bureaucrats" employed by Surrey County Council).
My daughter works in the DWP and she, with her colleagues, work very hard at improving the lives of those on benefits
Stephen Kinnock
Chris McDonald
Toby Perkins
are some examples.