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Does Sir Ed Davey need to perform some more cunning stunts? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,647
edited August 27 in General
Does Sir Ed Davey need to perform some more cunning stunts? – politicalbetting.com

Even after five years as Lib Dem leader, just 37% of Britons can identify Ed Davey by name from a photo% correctly identifying […] from a photoNigel Farage: 89%Keir Starmer: 87%Kemi Badenoch: 62%Ed Davey: 37%Carla Denyer: 9%Adrian Ramsay: 2%yougov.co.uk/politics/art…

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Comments

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,128
    He's a bit short of cunning stunts. They seem to be coalescing into Reform.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,721
    FPT: MattW on casting - yes, will respond, but just about to jump on a lengthy Zoom call!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,961
    edited August 27
    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,884
    edited August 27
    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,578
    In better news there’s a nice band of rain crossing North Yorkshire that should help get the Moors fire under control.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,452
    Foss said:

    "Focussed Abuse But No Name Given" is now my new favourite polling value.

    Same.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,580
    kinabalu said:

    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.

    It shows the scale of how much the Lib Dems are the NOTA party for weak willed liberals.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,884
    kinabalu said:

    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.

    Because their vote now is 'I dunno, somewhere in the middle'.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,128
    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.

    Because their vote now is 'I dunno, somewhere in the middle'.

    'now?'
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,445

    Foss said:

    "Focussed Abuse But No Name Given" is now my new favourite polling value.

    Same.
    Is that the name of Corbyn and Sultana’s new party? Doesn’t seem very catchy.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,884
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.

    Because their vote now is 'I dunno, somewhere in the middle'.

    'now?'
    Well I'm certain that OGH would have made some very positive noises about the intent and thought of some.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,128

    Foss said:

    "Focussed Abuse But No Name Given" is now my new favourite polling value.

    Same.
    Is that the name of Corbyn and Sultana’s new party? Doesn’t seem very catchy.
    That should be same old, same old.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,189
    kinabalu said:

    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.

    I think that demonstrates the genius of the LibDems perfectly.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,728
    Hey, maybe AI is useful after all...

    @ericjgeller.com‬

    Anthropic says a hacker used its Claude chatbot "to an unprecedented degree": Claude identified vulnerable companies, wrote infostealer malware, analyzed stolen files for extortion purposes, calculated extortion amounts, and wrote extortion messages.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ericjgeller.com/post/3lxfak4piui2x
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,728
    @libdems.org.uk‬

    Nigel Farage and the Reform Party’s Taliban Tax means sending hundreds of millions of taxpayers' money to an oppressive regime that British soldiers fought and died to defeat.

    https://bsky.app/profile/libdems.org.uk/post/3lxewslar452d
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,721
    ydoethur said:

    He's a bit short of cunning stunts. They seem to be coalescing into Reform.

    Except who in Reform is stunning?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,128

    ydoethur said:

    He's a bit short of cunning stunts. They seem to be coalescing into Reform.

    Except who in Reform is stunning?
    There are a few who are at least cunning.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,409
    I told him to finish it with a parachute jump like Gustav Graves.

    If only ...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,559
    edited August 27
    O/t but Mrs C had, today, a text purporting to be from an official body to do with car-parking to the effect that she had a large number of unresolved parking tickets and if she didn't pay up the authorities would be after her. And indeed, her license...... note the spelling ..... would be in danger.

    How many official British organisations spell licence that way?

    So the text has been deleted.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,128

    O/t but Mrs C had, today, a text purporting to be from an official body to do with car-parking to the effect that she had a large number of unresolved parking tickets and if she didn't pay up the authorities would be after her. And indeed, her license...... note the spelling ..... would be in danger.

    How many official British organisations spell licence that way?

    Any that use AI?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,409

    FPT: MattW on casting - yes, will respond, but just about to jump on a lengthy Zoom call!

    Enlightenment postponed ...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,559
    ydoethur said:

    O/t but Mrs C had, today, a text purporting to be from an official body to do with car-parking to the effect that she had a large number of unresolved parking tickets and if she didn't pay up the authorities would be after her. And indeed, her license...... note the spelling ..... would be in danger.

    How many official British organisations spell licence that way?

    Any that use AI?
    I'd still delete it!
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,442
    That is quite funny that only 73% of Conservative voters can identify their current leader.
    Omnium said:

    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!

    UK public is mainly to blame for the Lib Dems shamelessly lying to it?
    To be fair to them they seem to be popular local to their Nimby campaigns, but it falls apart outside that when the contradictions become apparent and the other contradiction of them being portrayed as centre left by the media when they're economically centre right/right not really being picked up.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,034
    edited August 27
    The antics of the Unknown Stuntman appeared to have stopped or at least the media got bored of covering them. He really needs to go much bigger e.g. jump 10 double decker buses on a jet powered unicycle
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,442
    I wonder how these recognition %s compare to the amount of coverage on the BBC?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,879
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.

    I think that demonstrates the genius of the LibDems perfectly.
    I've rolled this story out before - but about a year ago, at a pub quiz in middle class South Manchester, during a picture round, I was apparently the only person in a room of over 100 who recognised Ed Davey in a picture. Statistically I'd expect a good number of those people to be Lib Dems.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,034
    edited August 27
    kinabalu said:

    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.

    Lib Dem voters as a group can seem a confused lot e.g. the stubbornly high number of Lib Dem voters were also pro Brexit voters. Its a bit like Gordon Gecko voting for YourParty.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,445
    Ed Davey’s best stunt will be to ask some killer questions at PMQs. Preferably associating Starmer with Farage in the hope that some Labour voters move to the Lib Dems. Some close to the bone questions re Reform, associating them with racism and fascism will get some publicity from the Mail, Telegraph and Express as well. If he can associate said newspapers editors with fascism he should also get some publicity from the Guardian and Channel 4 news.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,034
    edited August 27
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.

    I think that demonstrates the genius of the LibDems perfectly.
    I've rolled this story out before - but about a year ago, at a pub quiz in middle class South Manchester, during a picture round, I was apparently the only person in a room of over 100 who recognised Ed Davey in a picture. Statistically I'd expect a good number of those people to be Lib Dems.

    It seems pretty common in the past when the media do a "do you recognise this politician" outside of probably a couple of handfuls the public in general often have little idea who they are or what position they hold. I bet the number who know many of the government ministers and the Tory shadow cabinet is very low. Starmer, Reeves, Big Ange, I bet then recognition drops very fast after that.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,712
    Love the collection of photos in the header :lol:
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,426

    O/t but Mrs C had, today, a text purporting to be from an official body to do with car-parking to the effect that she had a large number of unresolved parking tickets and if she didn't pay up the authorities would be after her. And indeed, her license...... note the spelling ..... would be in danger.

    How many official British organisations spell licence that way?

    So the text has been deleted.

    I keep getting that message, too.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,559
    edited August 27
    Sean_F said:

    O/t but Mrs C had, today, a text purporting to be from an official body to do with car-parking to the effect that she had a large number of unresolved parking tickets and if she didn't pay up the authorities would be after her. And indeed, her license...... note the spelling ..... would be in danger.

    How many official British organisations spell licence that way?

    So the text has been deleted.

    I keep getting that message, too.
    Not easy to block, is it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,034

    O/t but Mrs C had, today, a text purporting to be from an official body to do with car-parking to the effect that she had a large number of unresolved parking tickets and if she didn't pay up the authorities would be after her. And indeed, her license...... note the spelling ..... would be in danger.

    How many official British organisations spell licence that way?

    So the text has been deleted.

    As more and more companies and scammers use ChatGPT, I think it will harder and harder to tell as it will happily pump out the word license.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,712

    O/t but Mrs C had, today, a text purporting to be from an official body to do with car-parking to the effect that she had a large number of unresolved parking tickets and if she didn't pay up the authorities would be after her. And indeed, her license...... note the spelling ..... would be in danger.

    How many official British organisations spell licence that way?

    So the text has been deleted.

    I sometimes get texts saying "Dave, click here to get a loan of £500" :lol:

    not sure why they think my name is Dave!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,616
    edited August 27
    A very different picture of Graz this afternoon

    Just did a bike ride to the "city beach" with a couple of journos

    As soon as you get out of the exquisite UNESCO-listed centre you realise Graz is

    1. quite industrial

    2. rundown in parts

    3. infested with graffiti, in parts

    4. not half as rich as the the centre suggests

    5. suffering all the usual social problems of European cities, with fairly intense migration pressures

    More research reveals


    6. It has a communist mayor (!)

    and

    7. there was a terrible school shooting here in June. A disturbed teen killed ten kids, then himself. The police STILL refuse to reveal his ID - or whether he was neo-Nazi, Islamist, anything - the only detail that begrudgingly emerged is that he is half Austrian half Armenian. This secrecy is driving locals nuts. Quite reminiscent of Southport
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,120
    According to YouGov 59% of people know who David Steel is, even though he became Liberal leader as long ago as 1976.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/David_Steel
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,884

    O/t but Mrs C had, today, a text purporting to be from an official body to do with car-parking to the effect that she had a large number of unresolved parking tickets and if she didn't pay up the authorities would be after her. And indeed, her license...... note the spelling ..... would be in danger.

    How many official British organisations spell licence that way?

    So the text has been deleted.

    I sometimes get texts saying "Dave, click here to get a loan of £500" :lol:

    not sure why they think my name is Dave!
    PB sometimes gets messages from @Leon. I think much the same.

    (sorry @leon)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,852
    Andy_JS said:

    According to YouGov 59% of people know who David Steel is, even though he became Liberal leader as long ago as 1976.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/David_Steel

    That's what getting abortion legalised will do for you.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,172
    Omnium said:

    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!

    You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your analysis too seriously. As a Conservative, it must still annoy you lost 250 seats in July 2024 and the result for your party in terms of seats and vote share was the worst since 1832.

    Even now you’re in a statistical tie with the LDs for third place with YouGov having lost a quarter or more of those who did vote Conservative in 2024.

    In the local by elections in the once solid heartland of Surrey last week, the Conservatives lost seats to both Reform and the “lumbering oafishness” of the Liberal Democrats with vote shares down a third to a half from 2021.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,852
    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!

    You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your analysis too seriously. As a Conservative, it must still annoy you lost 250 seats in July 2024 and the result for your party in terms of seats and vote share was the worst since 1832.

    Even now you’re in a statistical tie with the LDs for third place with YouGov having lost a quarter or more of those who did vote Conservative in 2024.

    In the local by elections in the once solid heartland of Surrey last week, the Conservatives lost seats to both Reform and the “lumbering oafishness” of the Liberal Democrats with vote shares down a third to a half from 2021.
    A good betting market would be LDem or Con more seats at the next general election.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,728
    @yougov.co.uk‬

    With Reform UK saying it would be reasonable to pay the Taliban to return migrants to Afghanistan, how many Britons this would be acceptable?

    Acceptable: 17%
    Unacceptable: 61%

    % acceptable by party
    Reform: 35%
    Con: 23%
    Lab/Lib Dem: 7-13%


    Don't wanna pay the Taliban Tax
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,545
    Meanwhile, in "for now, at least, there is a line" news,

    With Reform UK saying it would be reasonable to pay the Taliban to return migrants to Afghanistan, how many Britons this would be acceptable?

    Acceptable: 17%
    Unacceptable: 61%

    % acceptable by party
    Reform: 35%
    Con: 23%
    Lab/Lib Dem: 7-13%


    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2025/08/27/23952/2?utm_source=daily_question&utm_medium=bluesky&utm_campaign=daily/2025/08/27_question_2
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,452

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!

    You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your analysis too seriously. As a Conservative, it must still annoy you lost 250 seats in July 2024 and the result for your party in terms of seats and vote share was the worst since 1832.

    Even now you’re in a statistical tie with the LDs for third place with YouGov having lost a quarter or more of those who did vote Conservative in 2024.

    In the local by elections in the once solid heartland of Surrey last week, the Conservatives lost seats to both Reform and the “lumbering oafishness” of the Liberal Democrats with vote shares down a third to a half from 2021.
    A good betting market would be LDem or Con more seats at the next general election.
    It exists, Ladbrokes offer it.

    I’ve done headers on it.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/07/08/will-the-lib-dems-win-more-seats-than-the-tories/

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/05/21/winning-here-could-the-lib-dems-win-more-seats-than-the-tories/

    https://www.ladbrokes.com/en/sports/event/politics/uk/uk-politics/uk-next-general-election/245440619/all-markets
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,852
    Scott_xP said:

    @yougov.co.uk‬

    With Reform UK saying it would be reasonable to pay the Taliban to return migrants to Afghanistan, how many Britons this would be acceptable?

    Acceptable: 17%
    Unacceptable: 61%

    % acceptable by party
    Reform: 35%
    Con: 23%
    Lab/Lib Dem: 7-13%


    Don't wanna pay the Taliban Tax

    Wow! Even their supporters think it's stupid. Fingers crossed for more own goals from Reform UK.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,721
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.

    I think that demonstrates the genius of the LibDems perfectly.
    I've rolled this story out before - but about a year ago, at a pub quiz in middle class South Manchester, during a picture round, I was apparently the only person in a room of over 100 who recognised Ed Davey in a picture. Statistically I'd expect a good number of those people to be Lib Dems.

    There's no mileage in admitting you know who Ed Davey is...

    None.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,884
    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!

    You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your analysis too seriously. As a Conservative, it must still annoy you lost 250 seats in July 2024 and the result for your party in terms of seats and vote share was the worst since 1832.

    Even now you’re in a statistical tie with the LDs for third place with YouGov having lost a quarter or more of those who did vote Conservative in 2024.

    In the local by elections in the once solid heartland of Surrey last week, the Conservatives lost seats to both Reform and the “lumbering oafishness” of the Liberal Democrats with vote shares down a third to a half from 2021.
    It does annoy, you're quite right.

    I am, or more accurately was, a lifelong Tory.

    I think you can judge my political views most accurately if I say that I'd have voted coalition rather than Tory in 2015.

    As such I would really quite like to have a possible vote that was an alternative to my longstanding Tory one. There should be a degree of comfort for that with the LDs. There's not though, and it's been a while since that was true.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,721
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    He's a bit short of cunning stunts. They seem to be coalescing into Reform.

    Except who in Reform is stunning?
    There are a few who are at least cunning.
    There are even more who are ....
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,545

    Scott_xP said:

    @yougov.co.uk‬

    With Reform UK saying it would be reasonable to pay the Taliban to return migrants to Afghanistan, how many Britons this would be acceptable?

    Acceptable: 17%
    Unacceptable: 61%

    % acceptable by party
    Reform: 35%
    Con: 23%
    Lab/Lib Dem: 7-13%


    Don't wanna pay the Taliban Tax

    Wow! Even their supporters think it's stupid. Fingers crossed for more own goals from Reform UK.
    It's grim to consider it, but I wonder how the numbers would change if a future UK government could do it without paying.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,616

    Scott_xP said:

    @yougov.co.uk‬

    With Reform UK saying it would be reasonable to pay the Taliban to return migrants to Afghanistan, how many Britons this would be acceptable?

    Acceptable: 17%
    Unacceptable: 61%

    % acceptable by party
    Reform: 35%
    Con: 23%
    Lab/Lib Dem: 7-13%


    Don't wanna pay the Taliban Tax

    Wow! Even their supporters think it's stupid. Fingers crossed for more own goals from Reform UK.
    It will be interesting to see how their Deportation press conference affects Reform polling. I do wonder if it could damage them

    Brits are angry about asylum/migration and want it sorted, but they want it sorted euphemistically and out of sight. Like not seeing the manufacture of sausages. Farage told them how he was going to make the sausages
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,189

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.

    I think that demonstrates the genius of the LibDems perfectly.
    I've rolled this story out before - but about a year ago, at a pub quiz in middle class South Manchester, during a picture round, I was apparently the only person in a room of over 100 who recognised Ed Davey in a picture. Statistically I'd expect a good number of those people to be Lib Dems.

    There's no mileage in admitting you know who Ed Davey is...

    None.
    Even Ed's wife sometimes struggles.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,631
    edited August 27
    Scott_xP said:

    @yougov.co.uk‬

    With Reform UK saying it would be reasonable to pay the Taliban to return migrants to Afghanistan, how many Britons this would be acceptable?

    Acceptable: 17%
    Unacceptable: 61%

    % acceptable by party
    Reform: 35%
    Con: 23%
    Lab/Lib Dem: 7-13%


    Don't wanna pay the Taliban Tax

    Farage has given policy development a go and been found out. He won't make that mistake again.

    I suspect there might be a rethink on coal/fracking and NHS privatisation too.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,640
    The dawn of post-literate society - with Jared Henderson and James Marriott: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4jW8MOxIKY (35mins)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,721
    edited August 27
    FPT:

    MattW: That's fair enough. But I did not take the purist "only trans can play trans" position. I said personal experience could add extra.

    Because actors are also bound in some ways by their personal experience, and they are not given infinite time.

    Does @MarqueeMark have a view, in between moths?

    I understand there is a strong view amongst gay actors that only gay actors can play gay. A number of straight actors will not consider a gay role, although many straight (or are they?) actors have given great portrayals of gay characters. I think it would be unfortunate if gay actors were trying to corner the market in gay roles.

    A more intriguing situation is facing my wife at the moment: casting for somebody who was a known bisexual. Again, some will not take on the role because they are straight and don't want the controversy. The number of bisexual actors is probably significantly more limited than gay. Do gays get to play bi without question, but straights don't? It really is quite a minefield. It's a high-end project with Oscar-winning cast and crew, likely to get awards attention. And yet...

    I haven't asked the moths if they have a view. (Just don't ask them to play Madame Butterfly....oh, the grief you'd get!)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,128
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.

    I think that demonstrates the genius of the LibDems perfectly.
    I've rolled this story out before - but about a year ago, at a pub quiz in middle class South Manchester, during a picture round, I was apparently the only person in a room of over 100 who recognised Ed Davey in a picture. Statistically I'd expect a good number of those people to be Lib Dems.

    There's no mileage in admitting you know who Ed Davey is...

    None.
    Even Ed's wife sometimes struggles.
    I thought it was Liz Truss had trouble remembering who her husband was.
  • ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.

    I think that demonstrates the genius of the LibDems perfectly.
    I've rolled this story out before - but about a year ago, at a pub quiz in middle class South Manchester, during a picture round, I was apparently the only person in a room of over 100 who recognised Ed Davey in a picture. Statistically I'd expect a good number of those people to be Lib Dems.

    There's no mileage in admitting you know who Ed Davey is...

    None.
    Even Ed's wife sometimes struggles.
    I thought it was Liz Truss had trouble remembering who her husband was.
    Liz Truss just wanted to fuck everyone.

    Then she became PM and did.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,721
    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!

    You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your analysis too seriously. As a Conservative, it must still annoy you lost 250 seats in July 2024 and the result for your party in terms of seats and vote share was the worst since 1832.

    Even now you’re in a statistical tie with the LDs for third place with YouGov having lost a quarter or more of those who did vote Conservative in 2024.

    In the local by elections in the once solid heartland of Surrey last week, the Conservatives lost seats to both Reform and the “lumbering oafishness” of the Liberal Democrats with vote shares down a third to a half from 2021.
    It does annoy, you're quite right.

    I am, or more accurately was, a lifelong Tory.

    I think you can judge my political views most accurately if I say that I'd have voted coalition rather than Tory in 2015.

    As such I would really quite like to have a possible vote that was an alternative to my longstanding Tory one. There should be a degree of comfort for that with the LDs. There's not though, and it's been a while since that was true.
    I sympathise to an extent.

    The brief philosophical convergence of Cameron’s “liberal conservatism” and the Orange Bookers made the Coalition possible but the political cost of the arrangement killed off the Liberal Democrats as William Hague correctly surmised in the aftermath of the 2010 GE.

    There are many in both parties who enjoyed the old adversarial relationship and preferred that to what could have been a political realignment. The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13. It didn’t help Conservative activists started working Liberal Democrats seats hard and that work paid dividends for the Conservatives in 2015 though that victory turned out to be the epitome of a poisoned chalice.

    Could Cameron and Clegg have sold Coalition 2.0 to their parties and on what basis? Running as Coalition candidates would have smacked of the 1918 Coupon election - had the two leaders tried, would one or both parties have split?

    It’s easy for me to see 2024 as revenge for 2015 but the party won seats last year it never got close to between 1997 and 2010 - Chichester being a good example, Surrey Heath another. Such gains would not have been possible but for thousands of disillusioned Conservatives feeling comfortable enough to vote Liberal Democrat or staying home relaxed about a possible Liberal Democrat win.

    Perhaps the relevant question for you is where has your old Conservative Party gone and why did it choose to abandon ground on which it had enjoyed electoral success over decades to chase a populist chimera?

    "The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13."

    Except it was the elephant in the room in 2010. The LibDems made it a condition of Coalition that "though shalt not" discuss European membership. A referendum in 2011 supported by Cameron and Clegg would have locked us into ever closer union - eternally. Silencing the matter allowed Farage to run with it, then Boris to see it as a way to the Top Job.

    Epic failure by the LibDems - that ultimately gave us Brexit.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,961
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.

    I think that demonstrates the genius of the LibDems perfectly.
    I've rolled this story out before - but about a year ago, at a pub quiz in middle class South Manchester, during a picture round, I was apparently the only person in a room of over 100 who recognised Ed Davey in a picture. Statistically I'd expect a good number of those people to be Lib Dems.
    You must have felt rather special.
  • stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!

    You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your analysis too seriously. As a Conservative, it must still annoy you lost 250 seats in July 2024 and the result for your party in terms of seats and vote share was the worst since 1832.

    Even now you’re in a statistical tie with the LDs for third place with YouGov having lost a quarter or more of those who did vote Conservative in 2024.

    In the local by elections in the once solid heartland of Surrey last week, the Conservatives lost seats to both Reform and the “lumbering oafishness” of the Liberal Democrats with vote shares down a third to a half from 2021.
    It does annoy, you're quite right.

    I am, or more accurately was, a lifelong Tory.

    I think you can judge my political views most accurately if I say that I'd have voted coalition rather than Tory in 2015.

    As such I would really quite like to have a possible vote that was an alternative to my longstanding Tory one. There should be a degree of comfort for that with the LDs. There's not though, and it's been a while since that was true.
    I sympathise to an extent.

    The brief philosophical convergence of Cameron’s “liberal conservatism” and the Orange Bookers made the Coalition possible but the political cost of the arrangement killed off the Liberal Democrats as William Hague correctly surmised in the aftermath of the 2010 GE.

    There are many in both parties who enjoyed the old adversarial relationship and preferred that to what could have been a political realignment. The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13. It didn’t help Conservative activists started working Liberal Democrats seats hard and that work paid dividends for the Conservatives in 2015 though that victory turned out to be the epitome of a poisoned chalice.

    Could Cameron and Clegg have sold Coalition 2.0 to their parties and on what basis? Running as Coalition candidates would have smacked of the 1918 Coupon election - had the two leaders tried, would one or both parties have split?

    It’s easy for me to see 2024 as revenge for 2015 but the party won seats last year it never got close to between 1997 and 2010 - Chichester being a good example, Surrey Heath another. Such gains would not have been possible but for thousands of disillusioned Conservatives feeling comfortable enough to vote Liberal Democrat or staying home relaxed about a possible Liberal Democrat win.

    Perhaps the relevant question for you is where has your old Conservative Party gone and why did it choose to abandon ground on which it had enjoyed electoral success over decades to chase a populist chimera?

    "The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13."

    Except it was the elephant in the room in 2010. The LibDems made it a condition of Coalition that "though shalt not" discuss European membership. A referendum in 2011 supported by Cameron and Clegg would have locked us into ever closer union - eternally. Silencing the matter allowed Farage to run with it, then Boris to see it as a way to the Top Job.

    Epic failure by the LibDems - that ultimately gave us Brexit.
    Especially considering Lib Dems 2010 manifesto called for an in/out referendum.

    Then they were utterly mortified when Cameron adopted their policy.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,884
    edited August 27
    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!

    You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your analysis too seriously. As a Conservative, it must still annoy you lost 250 seats in July 2024 and the result for your party in terms of seats and vote share was the worst since 1832.

    Even now you’re in a statistical tie with the LDs for third place with YouGov having lost a quarter or more of those who did vote Conservative in 2024.

    In the local by elections in the once solid heartland of Surrey last week, the Conservatives lost seats to both Reform and the “lumbering oafishness” of the Liberal Democrats with vote shares down a third to a half from 2021.
    It does annoy, you're quite right.

    I am, or more accurately was, a lifelong Tory.

    I think you can judge my political views most accurately if I say that I'd have voted coalition rather than Tory in 2015.

    As such I would really quite like to have a possible vote that was an alternative to my longstanding Tory one. There should be a degree of comfort for that with the LDs. There's not though, and it's been a while since that was true.
    I sympathise to an extent.

    The brief philosophical convergence of Cameron’s “liberal conservatism” and the Orange Bookers made the Coalition possible but the political cost of the arrangement killed off the Liberal Democrats as William Hague correctly surmised in the aftermath of the 2010 GE.

    There are many in both parties who enjoyed the old adversarial relationship and preferred that to what could have been a political realignment. The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13. It didn’t help Conservative activists started working Liberal Democrats seats hard and that work paid dividends for the Conservatives in 2015 though that victory turned out to be the epitome of a poisoned chalice.

    Could Cameron and Clegg have sold Coalition 2.0 to their parties and on what basis? Running as Coalition candidates would have smacked of the 1918 Coupon election - had the two leaders tried, would one or both parties have split?

    It’s easy for me to see 2024 as revenge for 2015 but the party won seats last year it never got close to between 1997 and 2010 - Chichester being a good example, Surrey Heath another. Such gains would not have been possible but for thousands of disillusioned Conservatives feeling comfortable enough to vote Liberal Democrat or staying home relaxed about a possible Liberal Democrat win.

    Perhaps the relevant question for you is where has your old Conservative Party gone and why did it choose to abandon ground on which it had enjoyed electoral success over decades to chase a populist chimera?

    Very much the right question.

    Where has it gone? I think it's become introverted. There really hasn't been anything like plausible Tory policy for about 25 years.

    It was chased out of ground it once held by immigration.

    If the Tory party has persued populism it's very effectively disguised. (To paraphrase C)
  • stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!

    You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your analysis too seriously. As a Conservative, it must still annoy you lost 250 seats in July 2024 and the result for your party in terms of seats and vote share was the worst since 1832.

    Even now you’re in a statistical tie with the LDs for third place with YouGov having lost a quarter or more of those who did vote Conservative in 2024.

    In the local by elections in the once solid heartland of Surrey last week, the Conservatives lost seats to both Reform and the “lumbering oafishness” of the Liberal Democrats with vote shares down a third to a half from 2021.
    It does annoy, you're quite right.

    I am, or more accurately was, a lifelong Tory.

    I think you can judge my political views most accurately if I say that I'd have voted coalition rather than Tory in 2015.

    As such I would really quite like to have a possible vote that was an alternative to my longstanding Tory one. There should be a degree of comfort for that with the LDs. There's not though, and it's been a while since that was true.
    I sympathise to an extent.

    The brief philosophical convergence of Cameron’s “liberal conservatism” and the Orange Bookers made the Coalition possible but the political cost of the arrangement killed off the Liberal Democrats as William Hague correctly surmised in the aftermath of the 2010 GE.

    There are many in both parties who enjoyed the old adversarial relationship and preferred that to what could have been a political realignment. The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13. It didn’t help Conservative activists started working Liberal Democrats seats hard and that work paid dividends for the Conservatives in 2015 though that victory turned out to be the epitome of a poisoned chalice.

    Could Cameron and Clegg have sold Coalition 2.0 to their parties and on what basis? Running as Coalition candidates would have smacked of the 1918 Coupon election - had the two leaders tried, would one or both parties have split?

    It’s easy for me to see 2024 as revenge for 2015 but the party won seats last year it never got close to between 1997 and 2010 - Chichester being a good example, Surrey Heath another. Such gains would not have been possible but for thousands of disillusioned Conservatives feeling comfortable enough to vote Liberal Democrat or staying home relaxed about a possible Liberal Democrat win.

    Perhaps the relevant question for you is where has your old Conservative Party gone and why did it choose to abandon ground on which it had enjoyed electoral success over decades to chase a populist chimera?

    "The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13."

    Except it was the elephant in the room in 2010. The LibDems made it a condition of Coalition that "though shalt not" discuss European membership. A referendum in 2011 supported by Cameron and Clegg would have locked us into ever closer union - eternally. Silencing the matter allowed Farage to run with it, then Boris to see it as a way to the Top Job.

    Epic failure by the LibDems - that ultimately gave us Brexit.
    Blaming the Lib Dems for Brexit seems a bit ... harsh?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,172

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.

    I think that demonstrates the genius of the LibDems perfectly.
    I've rolled this story out before - but about a year ago, at a pub quiz in middle class South Manchester, during a picture round, I was apparently the only person in a room of over 100 who recognised Ed Davey in a picture. Statistically I'd expect a good number of those people to be Lib Dems.

    There's no mileage in admitting you know who Ed Davey is...

    None.
    Here’s another one who spent most of 2019-24 telling us how wonderful the Conservatives were and how awful the Lib Dems would be. Remind me how that turned out for you or have you now crossed to the dark side and embraced Nigel as your new saviour?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,721
    stodge said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.

    I think that demonstrates the genius of the LibDems perfectly.
    I've rolled this story out before - but about a year ago, at a pub quiz in middle class South Manchester, during a picture round, I was apparently the only person in a room of over 100 who recognised Ed Davey in a picture. Statistically I'd expect a good number of those people to be Lib Dems.

    There's no mileage in admitting you know who Ed Davey is...

    None.
    Here’s another one who spent most of 2019-24 telling us how wonderful the Conservatives were and how awful the Lib Dems would be. Remind me how that turned out for you or have you now crossed to the dark side and embraced Nigel as your new saviour?
    Everyone know my hatred of Nigel Fucking Farage. Never hidden.

    I still laugh at those muppets who said the Tories were going to lose every seat. How did that work out for you?

    At the next election, the Tories will increase their number of seats; the LibDems will lose them. Take that to the bank.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,961
    So RUK supporters are fine with returning asylum seekers to the clutches of the Taliban but not if we pay for it. Hmm. Need to unpick that. It sounds a bit bleak on the face of it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,034
    The Liberal Democrat leader, Ed Davey, will boycott King Charles’s state banquet held in honour of Donald Trump to protest against the US president’s failure to intervene decisively to end the war in Gaza.

    Davey, who is invited to the dinner for Trump’s state visit to the UK, said to turn down an invitation from the king went against all his instincts and that it was a deeply serious move to refuse to attend.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/aug/27/lib-dem-leader-ed-davey-boycott-king-banquet-trump-protest-gaza
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,780

    Andy_JS said:

    According to YouGov 59% of people know who David Steel is, even though he became Liberal leader as long ago as 1976.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/David_Steel

    That's what getting abortion legalised will do for you.
    I blame Spitting Image.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,665
    The only party leader who genuinely looks as though he is enjoying himself.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,034
    edited August 27
    The far-right activist Tommy Robinson is to face no further action after he was arrested over an alleged assault at St Pancras station in London.

    British Transport Police (BTP) presented a file of evidence to prosecutors over the incident on 28 July, with footage of Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, pacing around near a man lying face down on the floor, posted on social media. On Wednesday, the force said that the Crown Prosecution Service concluded that there was not enough evidence to bring charges.

    It is understood that the victim does not want to pursue charges, and that CCTV footage showed him initially following Robinson as the activist walked away, before he was hit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/aug/27/tommy-robinson-no-charge-alleged-st-pancras-assault
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,536
    Pye will be pleased with your header there @TSE
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,172

    stodge said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm sceptical that 40% of LD voters don't recognise Ed Davey. How can you vote for a party if you are clueless about who leads it.

    I think that demonstrates the genius of the LibDems perfectly.
    I've rolled this story out before - but about a year ago, at a pub quiz in middle class South Manchester, during a picture round, I was apparently the only person in a room of over 100 who recognised Ed Davey in a picture. Statistically I'd expect a good number of those people to be Lib Dems.

    There's no mileage in admitting you know who Ed Davey is...

    None.
    Here’s another one who spent most of 2019-24 telling us how wonderful the Conservatives were and how awful the Lib Dems would be. Remind me how that turned out for you or have you now crossed to the dark side and embraced Nigel as your new saviour?
    Everyone know my hatred of Nigel Fucking Farage. Never hidden.

    I still laugh at those muppets who said the Tories were going to lose every seat. How did that work out for you?

    At the next election, the Tories will increase their number of seats; the LibDems will lose them. Take that to the bank.
    Yes, but your party will still be Farage’s junior partner if he makes you an offer.

    No one ever seriously thought the Conservatives would end up with no seats - some MRP polling suggested they might win fewer than the LDs but a recovery in the last few days of polling probably saved 20-30 seats. 121 was still an awful result however you dress it up.

    As for the next election, it’s all bravado at this point - no one knows what will happen and we have at least three and possibly nearly four years in which to speculate. It’s entirely possible the Conservatives will have fewer councillors than the LDs after the 2026 local round and equally possible both will be looking behind them at Reform.

    I will cheerfully concede you could be right and the Conservatives win 200 seats and the LDs 30 - entirely possible. It’s also possible the LDs could win 90 seats and the Conservatives 40.


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,120
    viewcode said:

    The dawn of post-literate society - with Jared Henderson and James Marriott: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4jW8MOxIKY (35mins)

    Rod Liddle wrote his Sunday Times article this week about this subject.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,812

    Scott_xP said:

    @yougov.co.uk‬

    With Reform UK saying it would be reasonable to pay the Taliban to return migrants to Afghanistan, how many Britons this would be acceptable?

    Acceptable: 17%
    Unacceptable: 61%

    % acceptable by party
    Reform: 35%
    Con: 23%
    Lab/Lib Dem: 7-13%


    Don't wanna pay the Taliban Tax

    Wow! Even their supporters think it's stupid. Fingers crossed for more own goals from Reform UK.
    This is just classic British electorate. Unwilling to pay for anything
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,120
    "The dawn of post-literate society - with Jared Henderson and James Marriott
    UnHerd"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4jW8MOxIKY

    "People are provably getting thicker".

    6 mins.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,884
    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, everyone I know why has met Ed Davey has been pretty complimentary about him. Of course, they might have met someone else, and just thought it was Ed Davey.

    If you are invited to a dinner by the King - you simply go.

    If you are invited to meet the representative of an allied nation then its hard to see any reason why not.

    Trump for a one-to-one at a golf course. Farage territory.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,812
    Andy_JS said:

    "The dawn of post-literate society - with Jared Henderson and James Marriott
    UnHerd"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4jW8MOxIKY

    "People are provably getting thicker".

    6 mins.

    As evidenced by Brexit and Reform
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,961
    Roger said:

    I've just heard that Sir Ed. Has refused the invitation from the king to join the others in Trumps State visit.

    Good for him. Very smart move. It's only one vote but it's got mine.

    A politician of principle. A while since we've seen one of those

    The Futures Bright. The Futures Orange

    Will not make me vote LD but otherwise agree completely.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,942

    I'm going to send them £100 and would commend others who find Trump repellent to do the same. I think Davey is good guys around.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/aug/27/ed-davey-trump-gaza-boycott-state-dinner-king-charles
  • Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, everyone I know why has met Ed Davey has been pretty complimentary about him. Of course, they might have met someone else, and just thought it was Ed Davey.

    If you are invited to a dinner by the King - you simply go.

    If you are invited to meet the representative of an allied nation then its hard to see any reason why not.

    Trump for a one-to-one at a golf course. Farage territory.
    I would go, but I'll be drying my hair that day.

    And wasn't invited.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,808

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!

    You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your analysis too seriously. As a Conservative, it must still annoy you lost 250 seats in July 2024 and the result for your party in terms of seats and vote share was the worst since 1832.

    Even now you’re in a statistical tie with the LDs for third place with YouGov having lost a quarter or more of those who did vote Conservative in 2024.

    In the local by elections in the once solid heartland of Surrey last week, the Conservatives lost seats to both Reform and the “lumbering oafishness” of the Liberal Democrats with vote shares down a third to a half from 2021.
    It does annoy, you're quite right.

    I am, or more accurately was, a lifelong Tory.

    I think you can judge my political views most accurately if I say that I'd have voted coalition rather than Tory in 2015.

    As such I would really quite like to have a possible vote that was an alternative to my longstanding Tory one. There should be a degree of comfort for that with the LDs. There's not though, and it's been a while since that was true.
    I sympathise to an extent.

    The brief philosophical convergence of Cameron’s “liberal conservatism” and the Orange Bookers made the Coalition possible but the political cost of the arrangement killed off the Liberal Democrats as William Hague correctly surmised in the aftermath of the 2010 GE.

    There are many in both parties who enjoyed the old adversarial relationship and preferred that to what could have been a political realignment. The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13. It didn’t help Conservative activists started working Liberal Democrats seats hard and that work paid dividends for the Conservatives in 2015 though that victory turned out to be the epitome of a poisoned chalice.

    Could Cameron and Clegg have sold Coalition 2.0 to their parties and on what basis? Running as Coalition candidates would have smacked of the 1918 Coupon election - had the two leaders tried, would one or both parties have split?

    It’s easy for me to see 2024 as revenge for 2015 but the party won seats last year it never got close to between 1997 and 2010 - Chichester being a good example, Surrey Heath another. Such gains would not have been possible but for thousands of disillusioned Conservatives feeling comfortable enough to vote Liberal Democrat or staying home relaxed about a possible Liberal Democrat win.

    Perhaps the relevant question for you is where has your old Conservative Party gone and why did it choose to abandon ground on which it had enjoyed electoral success over decades to chase a populist chimera?

    "The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13."

    Except it was the elephant in the room in 2010. The LibDems made it a condition of Coalition that "though shalt not" discuss European membership. A referendum in 2011 supported by Cameron and Clegg would have locked us into ever closer union - eternally. Silencing the matter allowed Farage to run with it, then Boris to see it as a way to the Top Job.

    Epic failure by the LibDems - that ultimately gave us Brexit.
    Blaming the Lib Dems for Brexit seems a bit ... harsh?
    I don't think so. Their position on Europe in the coalition was utterly bizarre, having run on a manifesto proposing an in/out referendum at the next significant change in the 2010 election, and being the first mainstream party in decades to do so.

    When they got into government their Party Line changed with a speed that would have done credit to Stalin, though admittedly with fewer executions.

    It was precisely that kind of contempt for voters by an arrogant, dishonest and ultimately incompetent establishment that infuriated so many leave voters.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,988
    Andy_JS said:

    "The dawn of post-literate society - with Jared Henderson and James Marriott
    UnHerd"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4jW8MOxIKY

    "People are provably getting thicker".

    6 mins.

    Is there not a shorter version, can’t deal with 6 minutes. Preferably with some sort of dance routine as well.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,189
    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, everyone I know why has met Ed Davey has been pretty complimentary about him. Of course, they might have met someone else, and just thought it was Ed Davey.

    If you are invited to a dinner by the King - you simply go.

    If you are invited to meet the representative of an allied nation then its hard to see any reason why not.

    Trump for a one-to-one at a golf course. Farage territory.
    Really?

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,189

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!

    You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your analysis too seriously. As a Conservative, it must still annoy you lost 250 seats in July 2024 and the result for your party in terms of seats and vote share was the worst since 1832.

    Even now you’re in a statistical tie with the LDs for third place with YouGov having lost a quarter or more of those who did vote Conservative in 2024.

    In the local by elections in the once solid heartland of Surrey last week, the Conservatives lost seats to both Reform and the “lumbering oafishness” of the Liberal Democrats with vote shares down a third to a half from 2021.
    It does annoy, you're quite right.

    I am, or more accurately was, a lifelong Tory.

    I think you can judge my political views most accurately if I say that I'd have voted coalition rather than Tory in 2015.

    As such I would really quite like to have a possible vote that was an alternative to my longstanding Tory one. There should be a degree of comfort for that with the LDs. There's not though, and it's been a while since that was true.
    I sympathise to an extent.

    The brief philosophical convergence of Cameron’s “liberal conservatism” and the Orange Bookers made the Coalition possible but the political cost of the arrangement killed off the Liberal Democrats as William Hague correctly surmised in the aftermath of the 2010 GE.

    There are many in both parties who enjoyed the old adversarial relationship and preferred that to what could have been a political realignment. The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13. It didn’t help Conservative activists started working Liberal Democrats seats hard and that work paid dividends for the Conservatives in 2015 though that victory turned out to be the epitome of a poisoned chalice.

    Could Cameron and Clegg have sold Coalition 2.0 to their parties and on what basis? Running as Coalition candidates would have smacked of the 1918 Coupon election - had the two leaders tried, would one or both parties have split?

    It’s easy for me to see 2024 as revenge for 2015 but the party won seats last year it never got close to between 1997 and 2010 - Chichester being a good example, Surrey Heath another. Such gains would not have been possible but for thousands of disillusioned Conservatives feeling comfortable enough to vote Liberal Democrat or staying home relaxed about a possible Liberal Democrat win.

    Perhaps the relevant question for you is where has your old Conservative Party gone and why did it choose to abandon ground on which it had enjoyed electoral success over decades to chase a populist chimera?

    "The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13."

    Except it was the elephant in the room in 2010. The LibDems made it a condition of Coalition that "though shalt not" discuss European membership. A referendum in 2011 supported by Cameron and Clegg would have locked us into ever closer union - eternally. Silencing the matter allowed Farage to run with it, then Boris to see it as a way to the Top Job.

    Epic failure by the LibDems - that ultimately gave us Brexit.
    Blaming the Lib Dems for Brexit seems a bit ... harsh?
    The 1970s Liberals had a pretty significant eurosceptic faction. There's an interesting alternate history where David Penhaligon becomes leader and the Liberals become the main eurosceptic party.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,824
    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, everyone I know why has met Ed Davey has been pretty complimentary about him. Of course, they might have met someone else, and just thought it was Ed Davey.

    If you are invited to a dinner by the King - you simply go.

    If you are invited to meet the representative of an allied nation then its hard to see any reason why not.

    Trump for a one-to-one at a golf course. Farage territory.
    Good on him, I would not be bowing and scraping to the overgrown baby. Plenty of other grovelling sychophants happy to debase themselves , good to see one of our politician's has some principles.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,700
    edited August 27
    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!

    You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your analysis too seriously. As a Conservative, it must still annoy you lost 250 seats in July 2024 and the result for your party in terms of seats and vote share was the worst since 1832.

    Even now you’re in a statistical tie with the LDs for third place with YouGov having lost a quarter or more of those who did vote Conservative in 2024.

    In the local by elections in the once solid heartland of Surrey last week, the Conservatives lost seats to both Reform and the “lumbering oafishness” of the Liberal Democrats with vote shares down a third to a half from 2021.
    It does annoy, you're quite right.

    I am, or more accurately was, a lifelong Tory.

    I think you can judge my political views most accurately if I say that I'd have voted coalition rather than Tory in 2015.

    As such I would really quite like to have a possible vote that was an alternative to my longstanding Tory one. There should be a degree of comfort for that with the LDs. There's not though, and it's been a while since that was true.
    I sympathise to an extent.

    The brief philosophical convergence of Cameron’s “liberal conservatism” and the Orange Bookers made the Coalition possible but the political cost of the arrangement killed off the Liberal Democrats as William Hague correctly surmised in the aftermath of the 2010 GE.

    There are many in both parties who enjoyed the old adversarial relationship and preferred that to what could have been a political realignment. The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13. It didn’t help Conservative activists started working Liberal Democrats seats hard and that work paid dividends for the Conservatives in 2015 though that victory turned out to be the epitome of a poisoned chalice.

    Could Cameron and Clegg have sold Coalition 2.0 to their parties and on what basis? Running as Coalition candidates would have smacked of the 1918 Coupon election - had the two leaders tried, would one or both parties have split?

    It’s easy for me to see 2024 as revenge for 2015 but the party won seats last year it never got close to between 1997 and 2010 - Chichester being a good example, Surrey Heath another. Such gains would not have been possible but for thousands of disillusioned Conservatives feeling comfortable enough to vote Liberal Democrat or staying home relaxed about a possible Liberal Democrat win.

    Perhaps the relevant question for you is where has your old Conservative Party gone and why did it choose to abandon ground on which it had enjoyed electoral success over decades to chase a populist chimera?

    2024 was clearly revenge for (most of) the Tories having put ideology before national interest in embracing the most damaging and futile form of Brexit.

    That the prior coalition made it easier for disgruntled Home Counties Tories to switch to the LDs is an interesting hypothesis that deserves more research. If the LDs got a delayed payoff for the mostly constructive role they played between 2010-15, it would be karma of sorts. But it could equally simply be repulsion at the Tories’ incompetence and venality since they let Johnson take over.
  • boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The dawn of post-literate society - with Jared Henderson and James Marriott
    UnHerd"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4jW8MOxIKY

    "People are provably getting thicker".

    6 mins.

    Is there not a shorter version, can’t deal with 6 minutes. Preferably with some sort of dance routine as well.
    Or maybe a version presented by an attractive young lady accidentally showing a lot of cleavage ?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,700
    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, everyone I know why has met Ed Davey has been pretty complimentary about him. Of course, they might have met someone else, and just thought it was Ed Davey.

    I’ve had breakfast with Ed Davey. Whilst it would be interesting to hear that he’s completely different in real life, actually, what you see on TV is very much how he is in private.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,286

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!

    You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your analysis too seriously. As a Conservative, it must still annoy you lost 250 seats in July 2024 and the result for your party in terms of seats and vote share was the worst since 1832.

    Even now you’re in a statistical tie with the LDs for third place with YouGov having lost a quarter or more of those who did vote Conservative in 2024.

    In the local by elections in the once solid heartland of Surrey last week, the Conservatives lost seats to both Reform and the “lumbering oafishness” of the Liberal Democrats with vote shares down a third to a half from 2021.
    A good betting market would be LDem or Con more seats at the next general election.
    It exists, Ladbrokes offer it.

    I’ve done headers on it.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/07/08/will-the-lib-dems-win-more-seats-than-the-tories/

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/05/21/winning-here-could-the-lib-dems-win-more-seats-than-the-tories/

    https://www.ladbrokes.com/en/sports/event/politics/uk/uk-politics/uk-next-general-election/245440619/all-markets
    Thanks. I've just popped £20 on the LDs at 5/4
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,840

    Sean_F said:

    O/t but Mrs C had, today, a text purporting to be from an official body to do with car-parking to the effect that she had a large number of unresolved parking tickets and if she didn't pay up the authorities would be after her. And indeed, her license...... note the spelling ..... would be in danger.

    How many official British organisations spell licence that way?

    So the text has been deleted.

    I keep getting that message, too.
    Not easy to block, is it.
    The number of scam texts I get has been increasing. There’s been a data breach somewhere no doubt, or my habit of scrawling my number on the back of toilet doors has come back to haunt me.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,712
    Andy_JS said:

    "The dawn of post-literate society - with Jared Henderson and James Marriott
    UnHerd"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4jW8MOxIKY

    "People are provably getting thicker".

    6 mins.

    Lampooned in Mike Judge's film "Idiocracy".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,172

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!

    You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your analysis too seriously. As a Conservative, it must still annoy you lost 250 seats in July 2024 and the result for your party in terms of seats and vote share was the worst since 1832.

    Even now you’re in a statistical tie with the LDs for third place with YouGov having lost a quarter or more of those who did vote Conservative in 2024.

    In the local by elections in the once solid heartland of Surrey last week, the Conservatives lost seats to both Reform and the “lumbering oafishness” of the Liberal Democrats with vote shares down a third to a half from 2021.
    It does annoy, you're quite right.

    I am, or more accurately was, a lifelong Tory.

    I think you can judge my political views most accurately if I say that I'd have voted coalition rather than Tory in 2015.

    As such I would really quite like to have a possible vote that was an alternative to my longstanding Tory one. There should be a degree of comfort for that with the LDs. There's not though, and it's been a while since that was true.
    I sympathise to an extent.

    The brief philosophical convergence of Cameron’s “liberal conservatism” and the Orange Bookers made the Coalition possible but the political cost of the arrangement killed off the Liberal Democrats as William Hague correctly surmised in the aftermath of the 2010 GE.

    There are many in both parties who enjoyed the old adversarial relationship and preferred that to what could have been a political realignment. The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13. It didn’t help Conservative activists started working Liberal Democrats seats hard and that work paid dividends for the Conservatives in 2015 though that victory turned out to be the epitome of a poisoned chalice.

    Could Cameron and Clegg have sold Coalition 2.0 to their parties and on what basis? Running as Coalition candidates would have smacked of the 1918 Coupon election - had the two leaders tried, would one or both parties have split?

    It’s easy for me to see 2024 as revenge for 2015 but the party won seats last year it never got close to between 1997 and 2010 - Chichester being a good example, Surrey Heath another. Such gains would not have been possible but for thousands of disillusioned Conservatives feeling comfortable enough to vote Liberal Democrat or staying home relaxed about a possible Liberal Democrat win.

    Perhaps the relevant question for you is where has your old Conservative Party gone and why did it choose to abandon ground on which it had enjoyed electoral success over decades to chase a populist chimera?

    "The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13."

    Except it was the elephant in the room in 2010. The LibDems made it a condition of Coalition that "though shalt not" discuss European membership. A referendum in 2011 supported by Cameron and Clegg would have locked us into ever closer union - eternally. Silencing the matter allowed Farage to run with it, then Boris to see it as a way to the Top Job.

    Epic failure by the LibDems - that ultimately gave us Brexit.
    Blaming the Lib Dems for Brexit seems a bit ... harsh?
    My recollection of this differs somewhat from yours - as I recall. It was David Cameron who wanted the Conservatives to “stop banging on about Europe” given how doing so had led to the stellar electoral performances of 1997, 2001 and 2005 all of which pale in comparison to 2024 of course.

    The second part is Cameron made winning a majority a prerequisite for entering into negotiations with other EU leaders to amend the nature of the UK’s membership - the in/out referendum was a last recourse if the negotiations failed to produce a satisfactory amendment to our membership. Had Cameron come back with an amended membership, it would probably have got through the Commons.

    How did the Conservatives win a majority in 2015? First, by appeasing UKIP, second by campaigning hard on the issue of the relationship between Labour and the SNP and third working hard in seats won by the LDs in 1997.

    Despite that perfect storm, Cameron won a majority of just 12 and had to go to the EU capitals where the leaders offered him nothing. He came back empty handed and was forced to call the in/out referendum.

    Apparently that’s all the Lib Dems fault. I see the spirit of fantasy is alive and well in the decimated ranks of the Conservative Party. There were a lot of players involved with Brexit - some of them, I’d argue, were members of the Conservative Party but many were not.

  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,442
    edited August 27

    The far-right activist Tommy Robinson is to face no further action after he was arrested over an alleged assault at St Pancras station in London.

    British Transport Police (BTP) presented a file of evidence to prosecutors over the incident on 28 July, with footage of Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, pacing around near a man lying face down on the floor, posted on social media. On Wednesday, the force said that the Crown Prosecution Service concluded that there was not enough evidence to bring charges.

    It is understood that the victim does not want to pursue charges, and that CCTV footage showed him initially following Robinson as the activist walked away, before he was hit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/aug/27/tommy-robinson-no-charge-alleged-st-pancras-assault

    Ponders why an alleged victim of assault by a far-right thug with a large social media following might be unwilling to pursue charges...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,616
    edited August 27
    Dopermean said:

    The far-right activist Tommy Robinson is to face no further action after he was arrested over an alleged assault at St Pancras station in London.

    British Transport Police (BTP) presented a file of evidence to prosecutors over the incident on 28 July, with footage of Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, pacing around near a man lying face down on the floor, posted on social media. On Wednesday, the force said that the Crown Prosecution Service concluded that there was not enough evidence to bring charges.

    It is understood that the victim does not want to pursue charges, and that CCTV footage showed him initially following Robinson as the activist walked away, before he was hit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/aug/27/tommy-robinson-no-charge-alleged-st-pancras-assault

    Ponders why an alleged victim of assault by a far-right thug with a large social media following might be unwilling to pursue charges...
    It is of course possible that Tommeh is telling the truth and the guy aggressively came after him first. And there are, as suggested, witnesses or cctv. Hence no charges

    Indeed my guess is that this is the case. The rozzers and CPS have never shown a reluctance to prosecute Robinson in the past; have they?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,757
    IanB2 said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!

    You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your analysis too seriously. As a Conservative, it must still annoy you lost 250 seats in July 2024 and the result for your party in terms of seats and vote share was the worst since 1832.

    Even now you’re in a statistical tie with the LDs for third place with YouGov having lost a quarter or more of those who did vote Conservative in 2024.

    In the local by elections in the once solid heartland of Surrey last week, the Conservatives lost seats to both Reform and the “lumbering oafishness” of the Liberal Democrats with vote shares down a third to a half from 2021.
    It does annoy, you're quite right.

    I am, or more accurately was, a lifelong Tory.

    I think you can judge my political views most accurately if I say that I'd have voted coalition rather than Tory in 2015.

    As such I would really quite like to have a possible vote that was an alternative to my longstanding Tory one. There should be a degree of comfort for that with the LDs. There's not though, and it's been a while since that was true.
    I sympathise to an extent.

    The brief philosophical convergence of Cameron’s “liberal conservatism” and the Orange Bookers made the Coalition possible but the political cost of the arrangement killed off the Liberal Democrats as William Hague correctly surmised in the aftermath of the 2010 GE.

    There are many in both parties who enjoyed the old adversarial relationship and preferred that to what could have been a political realignment. The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13. It didn’t help Conservative activists started working Liberal Democrats seats hard and that work paid dividends for the Conservatives in 2015 though that victory turned out to be the epitome of a poisoned chalice.

    Could Cameron and Clegg have sold Coalition 2.0 to their parties and on what basis? Running as Coalition candidates would have smacked of the 1918 Coupon election - had the two leaders tried, would one or both parties have split?

    It’s easy for me to see 2024 as revenge for 2015 but the party won seats last year it never got close to between 1997 and 2010 - Chichester being a good example, Surrey Heath another. Such gains would not have been possible but for thousands of disillusioned Conservatives feeling comfortable enough to vote Liberal Democrat or staying home relaxed about a possible Liberal Democrat win.

    Perhaps the relevant question for you is where has your old Conservative Party gone and why did it choose to abandon ground on which it had enjoyed electoral success over decades to chase a populist chimera?

    2024 was clearly revenge for (most of) the Tories having put ideology before national interest in embracing the most damaging and futile form of Brexit.

    That the prior coalition made it easier for disgruntled Home Counties Tories to switch to the LDs is an interesting hypothesis that deserves more research. If the LDs got a delayed payoff for the mostly constructive role they played between 2010-15, it would be karma of sorts. But it could equally simply be repulsion at the Tories’ incompetence and venality since they let Johnson take over.
    I think there is no one reason positive or negative, but the conclusions were bad for the Tories in any event.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,757
    Fishing said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    His and the LDs lumbering oafishness is one of the untold great political stories.

    Clegg is partly to blame, having crashed the car and run off from the scene, but the main blame is on the UK public. Talk about a bad break up!

    You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your analysis too seriously. As a Conservative, it must still annoy you lost 250 seats in July 2024 and the result for your party in terms of seats and vote share was the worst since 1832.

    Even now you’re in a statistical tie with the LDs for third place with YouGov having lost a quarter or more of those who did vote Conservative in 2024.

    In the local by elections in the once solid heartland of Surrey last week, the Conservatives lost seats to both Reform and the “lumbering oafishness” of the Liberal Democrats with vote shares down a third to a half from 2021.
    It does annoy, you're quite right.

    I am, or more accurately was, a lifelong Tory.

    I think you can judge my political views most accurately if I say that I'd have voted coalition rather than Tory in 2015.

    As such I would really quite like to have a possible vote that was an alternative to my longstanding Tory one. There should be a degree of comfort for that with the LDs. There's not though, and it's been a while since that was true.
    I sympathise to an extent.

    The brief philosophical convergence of Cameron’s “liberal conservatism” and the Orange Bookers made the Coalition possible but the political cost of the arrangement killed off the Liberal Democrats as William Hague correctly surmised in the aftermath of the 2010 GE.

    There are many in both parties who enjoyed the old adversarial relationship and preferred that to what could have been a political realignment. The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13. It didn’t help Conservative activists started working Liberal Democrats seats hard and that work paid dividends for the Conservatives in 2015 though that victory turned out to be the epitome of a poisoned chalice.

    Could Cameron and Clegg have sold Coalition 2.0 to their parties and on what basis? Running as Coalition candidates would have smacked of the 1918 Coupon election - had the two leaders tried, would one or both parties have split?

    It’s easy for me to see 2024 as revenge for 2015 but the party won seats last year it never got close to between 1997 and 2010 - Chichester being a good example, Surrey Heath another. Such gains would not have been possible but for thousands of disillusioned Conservatives feeling comfortable enough to vote Liberal Democrat or staying home relaxed about a possible Liberal Democrat win.

    Perhaps the relevant question for you is where has your old Conservative Party gone and why did it choose to abandon ground on which it had enjoyed electoral success over decades to chase a populist chimera?

    "The emergence of “Europe” as an issue further fractured a relationship which had become strained by 2012-13."

    Except it was the elephant in the room in 2010. The LibDems made it a condition of Coalition that "though shalt not" discuss European membership. A referendum in 2011 supported by Cameron and Clegg would have locked us into ever closer union - eternally. Silencing the matter allowed Farage to run with it, then Boris to see it as a way to the Top Job.

    Epic failure by the LibDems - that ultimately gave us Brexit.
    Blaming the Lib Dems for Brexit seems a bit ... harsh?
    I don't think so. Their position on Europe in the coalition was utterly bizarre, having run on a manifesto proposing an in/out referendum at the next significant change in the 2010 election, and being the first mainstream party in decades to do so.

    When they got into government their Party Line changed with a speed that would have done credit to Stalin, though admittedly with fewer executions.

    It was precisely that kind of contempt for voters by an arrogant, dishonest and ultimately incompetent establishment that infuriated so many leave voters.
    I think you're projecting tbh.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,757
    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, everyone I know why has met Ed Davey has been pretty complimentary about him. Of course, they might have met someone else, and just thought it was Ed Davey.

    Naughty Robert! ;-)

    I have known him for nearly 30 years and as a mate and as a politician I think he is as genuine as they come. I know I am talking my book, but Ed is one of the reasons I have stayed unwavering in my Liberal loyalty.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,914
    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On topic, everyone I know why has met Ed Davey has been pretty complimentary about him. Of course, they might have met someone else, and just thought it was Ed Davey.

    Naughty Robert! ;-)

    I have known him for nearly 30 years and as a mate and as a politician I think he is as genuine as they come. I know I am talking my book, but Ed is one of the reasons I have stayed unwavering in my Liberal loyalty.
    He used to be my MP when I lived in Surbiton many years ago . I voted for him when he won the first time in 1997 by 52 votes . That was an amazing night when the results came in .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,793
    Slightly surprising 2% more who Farage is than the PM is but clearly his name recognition and charisma is a big boost for Reform.

    37% knowing who the LD leader is is not too bad for them given their minor party status, as she is LOTO though Tory MPs would hope for a few more than 62% knowing who she is
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