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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » David Herdson says the Leveson law could be negating parlia

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited March 2013 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » David Herdson says the Leveson law could be negating parliament’s most precious principle

The reporting of the implementation (or not, depending on your point of view) of the Leveson proposals have understandably concentrated on the regulation of the media. It is, after all, the media who have been reporting it and there is a tendency within the industry to believe that everyone else finds them as interesting as they find themselves.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    First in Vanilla
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Mike, this Vanilla is almost perfect as Nabavi would say. Only needs the edit function. Sorry for being so demanding.
  • Sure/y, in the issue of binding members of parliamemnt, the only valid consideration is "which gauge of barbed wire shall we use?"?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited March 2013
    Test

    Edit: Just a test to see if the edit function works

    Edit again: Yup, it does
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,216
    A big thank you to those who have made donations this morning

    The Vanilla commenting system does add to the site and having the financial backing of users makes a real difference.

    As I mentioned earlier we don't know yet what tariff category PB will be put in - whatever it is going to add to our base-line costs. It will probably be $550 a month though I fear we could be pushed higher.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,216
    edited March 2013
    surbiton said:

    Mike, this Vanilla is almost perfect as Nabavi would say. Only needs the edit function. Sorry for being so demanding.

    There is an edit function. Just move your cursor to the top RH corner of your comment and a tools symbol appears.

  • samsam Posts: 727
    edited March 2013
    Hitchens on Leveson... It will be Duvet Daves legacy

    http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 58,560
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Smithson, I've made a small donation. Unfortunately my financial situation isn't fantastic. My plan is to wait until the mid-season breaks (after the 4th, 9th and 13th races) and see if I can give more then.

    Incidentally, it's 3 weeks till China. My post-race analysis of Malaysia is here:
    http://politicalbetting.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/malaysia-post-race-analysis.html

    I know Mr. Eagles e-mailed you, so hopefully I can have comment-deleting powers by the time the Chinese Grand Prix rolls around.
  • samsam Posts: 727
    @tim

    Have you watched Tony Benn In Confidence? Interview on Sky Arts with Laurie Taylor, it's available on Sky on demand if you have it

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 58,560
    Oh, and I was wondering whether a competition or two might help?

    Obviously, F1's my thing, so I was wondering about something like this:
    Forecast which team will have the most points after X races (tie-breaker being a guess of the specific number of points).
    £5 entry fee
    Half the cash could go to the winner, half to the site
  • bunncobunnco Posts: 165
    edited March 2013
    You just can't pick and choose what sort of majority you want. This test-case states that it;s just a simple majority. Otherwise it's an abuse which just binds successors as the Judge said. This narrow point was taken to the Court of Appeal in 2010, where I had a special interest in the outcome.

    Bunnco - Your Man on the Spot


    R (On the application of Friends of Hethel Ltd) v South Norfolk DC & Ecotricity
    Neutral Citation Number: [2010] EWCA Civ 894
    Case No: C1/2009/2762/QBACF
    IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE
    COURT OF APPEAL (CIVIL DIVISION)
    ON APPEAL FROM
    Mr Justice Cranston CO/10993/2009 Royal Courts of Justice Strand, London, WC2A 2LL

    ...

    51. What in the end has to be conclusive is that an area committee, as a body to which the local authority's powers have been delegated, is required by law to exercise those powers by a simple majority of those present and voting and in no other way.

    52. We have not been pressed with the argument that there is, within the meaning of Schedule 12, more than one kind of majority, so that a council is free to choose what size of majority is to operate in each of its forums. One can see why: a council could paralyse its successor by requiring all decisions (including a decision to change the rule itself) to be taken by, say, a four-fifths majority. And it is in the end the possibility that this district council's well-meant and sensible provision could recur in less sensible form elsewhere in local government law that finally persuades me that Lord Justice Sullivan is right on this issue.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    surbiton said:

    Mike, this Vanilla is almost perfect as Nabavi would say. Only needs the edit function. Sorry for being so demanding.

    There is an edit function. Just move your cursor to the top RH corner of your comment and a tools symbol appears.

    What are your thoughts on badges for donors, Mike? It's a great way of encouraging people to donate, and applauding those that do, without any barrier for newcomers to the site.
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    On-topic, am I not right in saying that the requirement for a super-majority can be overturned by a simple majority, ie. parliament hasn't bound its successors at all?

    For my money, the real crossing of the Rubicon was the disgraceful use of retrospective legislation to overturn a defeat in the courts.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    On topic, David says the following "an early dissolution is a one-off event that does not influence future parliaments except in the first one’s composition"

    Doesn't the Fixed Term Parliament Act commit all parliaments to five years, not just the current one?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    tim said:

    MANY Conservative MPs believe that accident-prone Oliver Letwin should not be allowed out on his own.

    Nor should Letwin be allowed to stay in on his own, since he might invite thieves into his house.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1742011.stm

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,912
    edited March 2013
    Mike

    I've just made a donation.
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    As the blog is non aligned and there's not any similar internet site, is there any chance of registering as a charity? This would open the doors to other funding sources and there's always the charitable giving status to reclaim tax.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,828
    edited March 2013

    What are your thoughts on badges for donors, Mike? It's a great way of encouraging people to donate, and applauding those that do, without any barrier for newcomers to the site.



    Socrates , Not sure you need a badge to show you have donated, best just doing it because you want to, though if it encouraged extra people to do it then it would be worth it
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 58,560
    F1: highlights will start imminently on the BBC.
  • MBoyMBoy Posts: 104
    Not a particularly strong post from David H. Almost all other countries have a sound principle that something more than a majority +1 is needed to change a rule where there should be consensus in order to do so. The fact that the UK is backward in this regard is no reason to not move forward. It's a silly and archaic facet of the British system that we are entirely happy for the "tyranny of the majority" to be used on literally any subject.
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    Just watched the Boris Johnson clip. There is a man who will never be Tory leader.
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "The fact that the UK is backward in this regard is no reason to not move forward. It's a silly and archaic facet of the British system that we are entirely happy for the "tyranny of the majority" to be used on literally any subject."

    It's too easy to go to the other extreme and end up with a US-style situation where an antiquated status quo can't be reformed because vested interests are able to form a blocking minority.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,030

    Just watched the Boris Johnson clip. There is a man who will never be Tory leader.

    "I have as much chance of becoming Prime Minister as of being decapitated by a frisbee or of finding Elvis." - Boris, 2003.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I don't see huge cause for concern while the House of Lords has no party in a majority.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,111
    Yes, I mentioned the super-majority precedent when the idea appeared and I've been surprised it wasn't more widely remarked (I'd forgotten about the fixed parliament precedent). Like the Human Rights Act, it's a step towards a written constitution. It's a basic feature of most constitutions that they are designed to be hard to amend. For instance, the 5/6 majority that David mentions in Denmark is specifically for constitutional changes without a referendum. The Danish idea is that if a constitutional change is so uncontroversial that 85% of MPs agree with it, then it doesn't need a referendum, otherwise it does. Denmark doesn't have an Upper House, feeling that the constitution protects its freedoms better than a second set of politicians.

    I'm not a big fan of written constitutions, since it's hard to avoid wording that doesn't have unexpected consequences in the future, like the US ban on restrictions on militia which turns out to make it hard to prevent madmen buying assault weapons. In principle, though, it's not an obviously bad thing to have some key rights entrenched (freedom of association, for instance) so that they can't be thrown out by 326 MPs in a moment of national paranoia about something. I do agree with David that it's not obvious that this particular Bill comes under that heading.
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "The Danish idea is that if a constitutional change is so uncontroversial that 85% of MPs agree with it, then it doesn't need a referendum, otherwise it does."

    That sounds like an excellent system, as long as there's no supermajority requirement for the referendums. Having said that, I seem to recall that Maastricht had the overwhelming support of Danish politicians, but clearly was controversial with the public - to the extent that they narrowly rejected it in the first referendum.
  • Bunnco - great to see you back on the spot!

    Have you been awaiting the arrival of vanilla?
  • bunncobunnco Posts: 165

    Bunnco - great to see you back on the spot!

    Have you been awaiting the arrival of vanilla?

    Yes - I found the old Disqus totally unusable and frustrating and new one impossible. This is much better although I'd like the option to have the oldest post first so you can read-down the thread - the first posts are normally the most relevant to the header - and a post-sequence number.


  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 58,560
    Welcome back, Mr. Bunnco :)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 75,434
    A very worthy and forceful article. Given it is a minor piece of legislation that it is being used for, it seems to have been done entirely because people don't trust politicians or the press, so they are trying to say 'Look, ther'll be no backsies on this one, fingers crossed', which is a poor motivation for a potentially significant alteration of practice.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,235

    On-topic, am I not right in saying that the requirement for a super-majority can be overturned by a simple majority, ie. parliament hasn't bound its successors at all?

    For my money, the real crossing of the Rubicon was the disgraceful use of retrospective legislation to overturn a defeat in the courts.

    The Scottish press seems to have ignored that in its entirety.
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    @DPJHodges: Just seen the Boris interview everyone's raving about. Are people's private lives fair game again now Hugh Grant's left town...
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "Are people's private lives fair game again"

    The question Mair asked was whether Johnson had lied about the affair to his party leader.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    I don't agree with him on everything, but Rand Paul is doing sterling work in making the case for ending marijuana prohibition:

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/politico-live/2013/03/paul-i-dont-promote-marijuana-160075.html?hp=f3

    "Look, the last two presidents could have conceivably been put in jail for their drug use and I really think - look what would've happened, it would've ruined their lives. They got lucky. But a lot of poor kids, particularly in the inner city, don't get lucky and they don't have good attorneys and they go to jail for some of these things and I think it's a big mistake,” the Kentucky Republican said on Fox’s “Fox News Sunday.”

    "Actually, I think it would be the last three presidents, but who's counting?" host Chris Wallace said with a laugh.


    Unlike his father, Rand Paul is a serious and credible politician. He's going to run for POTUS in 2016, but he won't win. 2020, however, I might make him the current favourite for the GOP nominee.
  • MBoyMBoy Posts: 104
    Dan Hodges appears to have become a parody of himself, being a spoof of himself, satirising himself, portraying himself in a pantomime.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,235
    I must say that I am very impressed by Faisal Islam's tweeting of the 'crisis in Cyprus' (that would make a good headline).

    He makes Alexy Stakhanov look like a slacker.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Socrates

    You can imagine Rand Paul doing quite well in Iowa so could well make for a good trading bet for GOP nominee for 2016.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited March 2013
    Test
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    edited March 2013

    I must say that I am very impressed by Faisal Islam's tweeting of the 'crisis in Cyprus' (that would make a good headline)

    @faisalislam
    No, it's not a solution to the crisis, and I'm not changing career, and I'm not going to pose by it: https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/315505130369863680/photo/1
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,030
    edited March 2013
    It was of course the C of E's supermajority rules that stopped women becoming Bishops, even though a simple majority in all three parts of the electoral college were in favour.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    The BBC should be ashamed of itself.

    It it time this state monopoly is broken up and sold, with the proceeds used to pay down the country's debt.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Avery

    I never had you down as a disgruntled F1 fan!
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Neil said:

    @Avery

    I never had you down as a disgruntled F1 fan!

    F1 = Fop 1?

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,216
    Neil said:

    @Socrates

    You can imagine Rand Paul doing quite well in Iowa so could well make for a good trading bet for GOP nominee for 2016.

    Rand Paul was one of my long term bets last November and I've got him at 33/1 for the nomination.

    He ticks a lot of the boxes and will inherit his father's nationwide organisation.

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,661
    @Neil

    The Labour woman who lost in Pavillion in 2010 will try to get selected in Kemptown this time rather than Pavillion again. Both of them are AWS. The man who lost Kemptown will try in Hove now.
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,249
    That does seem to have been something of a hatchet job done on Boris this morning. Why now might be the question (rather than say before the last Mayoral election? Having said that Portillo and other respected Tories views on Boris are well known. Even Sir Terry Wogan has opined he could never imagine Boris as leader of the Tory party or as P.M.

    Those praising the overrated Mair might note though his questioning of Danny Alexander was very weak and was almost entirely dominated by his constant banging on about the irrevelant second home issue which will obviously be ironed out in the weeks to come. Mair really doesn't need to borrow this silly Labour Party attack line and instead should have applied a few thoughts of his own on this matter.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Andrea

    Thanks, Andrea. Brighton Kemptown should be a relatively straightforward win for Labour so I can see its attractions over Pavilion.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Norm said:

    Why now might be the question

    Because of the TV show about to be broadcast in which he hints at Prime Ministerial ambitions?

  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "That does seem to have been something of a hatchet job done on Boris this morning. Why now might be the question (rather than say before the last Mayoral election?"


    Probably simply because he is so rarely faced with a proper interviewer.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 75,434
    edited March 2013
    AveryLP said:

    The BBC should be ashamed of itself.

    What have they done this time?

    I find that a problem those vehemently against the BBC often have is similar to UKIPs problem until recently, in that they get a little too worked up for most people, such that even when they have a point they take it too far in outraged tone and put people off (or make the point too intensely at slightest provocation, appearing disproportionate), or even make people defensive about the subject of their ire.

    Still, open mind and all that, what've they done?
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    Revelations in today’s Sunday Herald show why when it comes to the crunch Westminster’s instincts are always to cling on to power.

    Newly released files from 1997 have revealed that civil servants at Westminster in the early days of Tony Blair’s administration believed that a devolved Scotland should have its own civil service and that there was little purpose to the role of Secretary of State for Scotland after devolution.

    The revelations are particularly embarrassing for Michael Moore, the current occupant of that post, given calls the LibDems previously made to abolish the post of Secretary of State for Scotland.


    http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2013/mar/westminster-determined-cling-power
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 75,434
    I think most people will always have had doubts about Boris having leadership potential - the idea was scoffed at for years because of that - but him being talked up a lot more this past year was perfectly reasonable.

    He had won a high profile if limited post and held it in a Labour city at a poor time for the Tories, he's pretty popular (even if not universally popular) and has defied expectations time and time again. Now he's been making more overt moves to try and seize hold of that pro-Boris feeling for his future advancement, it's only natural the media and his opponents would come out swinging. If he can weather it he's still got a chance, if a slim one as there's more than just his weaknesses (or strengths) as an option which impact his chances.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,679

    "That does seem to have been something of a hatchet job done on Boris this morning. Why now might be the question (rather than say before the last Mayoral election?"


    Probably simply because he is so rarely faced with a proper interviewer.

    Boris rarely does live interviews. Today showed why.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    @David Herdson

    When you look at "legally binding" targets, for example for carbon reduction, stretching 25+ years into the future, this principle has already been breached (thank you, Tony)

    That said, it is completely meaningless, because a Parliament that didn't want the restriction would just amend the enabling legislation as you point out

    It's just prattish behaviour trying to "send a message" - the same attitude that has led to endless legislation forbidding things that are already legal
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited March 2013
    [self-censored]
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 75,434
    edited March 2013
    @southamobserver

    Boris rarely does live interviews. Today showed why.



    Obama rarely does live interviews doesn't he? (Note - I am not trying to suggest Boris is the next Obama, for better or worse). That is what I'd heard anyway. Most people aren't very good at them, it's not always a dealbreaker.

    I suppose it's a question of whether they are so not good as to cause themselves damage. Boris really did seem to struggle to provide a decent stock answer to the sorts of questions he had faced before and should be better at handling.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    @MikeSmithson

    Mike - can I suggest that the donate button is selling yourself short here.

    With the introduction of a new comments system with a predictable monthly cost you've got a tailor-made excuse to ask people to sign up to monthly contributions. Entirely optional, of course with no downside for people who don't (I suggested a little gold star for contributors) but it would make your funding costs far more predictable going forward.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    "That does seem to have been something of a hatchet job done on Boris this morning. Why now might be the question (rather than say before the last Mayoral election?"


    Probably simply because he is so rarely faced with a proper interviewer.

    Boris rarely does live interviews. Today showed why.
    Boris just does not have the gravity for being PM, or the diplomatic skills, much as he adds to the gaity of the nation.

    Mair is streets ahead of Marr or Paxman in political interviews now. Pension them off.

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,661
    edited March 2013
    SNP Euro candidates shortlisted

    Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh (former Labour, former Conservative but she's in the SNP for over 10 years now http://www.scottishasianwomensassociation.com/about-us/tasmina-ahmed-sheikh/
    Stephen Gethins http://www.stephengethins.eu/
    Toni Giugliano http://www.toni4europe.org/
    Ian Hudghton MEP
    Alyn Smith MEP
    Chris Stephens (from Glasgow)

    Next move is the ranking. Crucial is spot number 3 (assuming the 2 sitting MEPs will top the poll).
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2013
    kle4 said:

    AveryLP said:

    The BBC should be ashamed of itself.

    What have they done this time?
    It is not a single event, kle4.

    After many years of regarding the BBC as a national treasure, my eyes were opened to the truth in 2002 when Peter Sissons wore a grey suit and burgundy tie to announce to the nation the death of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother.

    Since then there have been many revelations of dark perversions practiced off camera by the corporation's leading presenters.

    Only this morning we saw the corporation launch an unprovoked and indefensible perspnal attack on one of our most loved and revered politicians.

    Is there no gratitude at the BBC?

    Are memories so short?

    Not a year has passed since Boris illuminated the world with the wondrous Opening Ceremony of the London 2012 Olympics.

    And now you ask: "what have they done this time?".

    Bury you head in shame, kle4.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,030

    "That does seem to have been something of a hatchet job done on Boris this morning. Why now might be the question (rather than say before the last Mayoral election?"


    Probably simply because he is so rarely faced with a proper interviewer.

    Boris rarely does live interviews. Today showed why.
    "It is complete balderdash. It is an inverted pyramid of piffle. It is all completely untrue and ludicrous conjecture. I am amazed people can write this drivel." - Boris, 2004.
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "Bury you head in shame, kle4."

    Absolutely. Taking the words of Cousin of Seth seriously is a schoolboy error by any standards.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 75,434
    edited March 2013
    @AveryLP
    Bury you head in shame, kle4.

    I shall not. Histrionics can be fun, but it's still always silly. I shall be silly another time, not when you assault the greatest institution on the face of the earth (damn, hung by my own rope)

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,235

    SNP Euro candidates shortlisted

    Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh (former Labour, former Conservative but she's in the SNP for over 10 years now http://www.scottishasianwomensassociation.com/about-us/tasmina-ahmed-sheikh/

    Ooh. One for Tim here. Strangely enough, Tasmina is a "mother of four".
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    AveryLP said:

    The BBC should be ashamed of itself.

    Assuming you were referring to the Boris interview, the howard question (lying to your party leader) was a little off because that's what politicians do, sadly.

    The Guppy incident is one I can quite understand that Boris wants to forget. I don't think it is as quite clear cut as Mair suggested (IIRC, Boris didn't *actually* supply the details, just said that he would) and the Times quote is a youthful indiscretion.

    The overall theme though (and I liked the Conrad Black reference!) was that Boris is an ambitious schemer.

    Probably fair, although extremely aggressive. If a politician can't deal with pressure like that he shouldn't be PM.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,235
    @Sunil_Prasannan

    You have probably seen this before, Sunil, but here is a link on PDF to the railway maps from the original Beeching Report.

    http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/BRB_Beech001b.pdf

    This week is the 50th anniversary of the infamous event, I see.
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    Thanks to Andrea for mentioning Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh - it caused me to refresh my memory of how the Telegraph reported the story of her defection to the SNP. It seems that in Telegraph-World, every day was a "dreadful day for the SNP" even a decade-and-a-half-ago!

    The more things change, the more they stay the same...
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    SNP Euro candidates shortlisted

    Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh (former Labour, former Conservative but she's in the SNP for over 10 years now http://www.scottishasianwomensassociation.com/about-us/tasmina-ahmed-sheikh/

    Ooh. One for Tim here. Strangely enough, Tasmina is a "mother of four".
    Ah, "Mother of four" that explains the SNP's poor polling with women. I knew it had to be that. Or Alex Salmonds date nights.
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "Ah, "Mother of four" that explains the SNP's poor polling with women"

    How come in today's poll the SNP are at 47% (the same as all three London parties combined) if they are "polling poorly with women"?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,235
    edited March 2013
    @foxinsoxuk
    Alec Salmond's date nights summons up visions of a fish supper washed down with a bottle of Irn Bru for me.
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    SeanT said:

    Am I the first pb-er to comment, while sitting completely naked and utterly alone

    No, I've done it several times :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,030

    @Sunil_Prasannan

    You have probably seen this before, Sunil, but here is a link on PDF to the railway maps from the original Beeching Report.

    http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/BRB_Beech001b.pdf

    This week is the 50th anniversary of the infamous event, I see.

    Thanks for that old_labour! The London area got off pretty lightly in terms of passenger services (as opposed to freight). Only Seven Sisters to Palace Gates, Harrow & Wealdstone to Belmont, and West Drayton to Uxbridge and Staines West closed during the 1960s.

    The London Railway Atlas published by Ian Allan is much recommended (not just because I'm in the acknowledgements), as it has all opening and closing dates for routes, stations and junctions.

    For a Great Britain perspective, the Colonel Michael Cobb's The Railways of Great Britain: A Historical Atlas is also much recommended, as it overlays the positions of old stations and track on a 1970-vintage OS map.
  • TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    edited March 2013
    SeanT said:

    Am I the first pb-er to comment, while sitting completely naked and utterly alone on a tiny uninhabited coralline atoll in the Indian Ocean - and faced with a dwindling supply of Shiraz?

    I suspect so. But we have yet to hear from Nick Palmer.

    I expected the Maldives to be fun. 5 star hotels and free bubbly. Etc

    But this is a peak experience. Quite amazing.

    You've got a half decent plot for a short psychological thriller there.
    International playboy writer has a night on a desert island. Luxury food and wine, support yacht with staff and flunkies anchored offshore, wifi access, so what could go wrong?

    Playboy has a drink, does a bit of writing and pron surfing on his iPad, looks out to sea, but can't see the lights of his yacht. He starts getting scary messages in his pron chatroom, hears noises coming from inland on the island that only he should be on.........!

    We'll share the royalties, Sean.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SeanT said:



    I doubt BoJo's chances of becoming PM have been damaged one iota by this interview.

    The fact is his prospects of attaining the ultimate job have always been remote

    I agree. It's worth remembering that as well as a fair class brain behind the amiable twit facade, the guy is also a scheming, ambitious sh_t
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2013
    Charles said:

    AveryLP said:

    The BBC should be ashamed of itself.

    If a politician can't deal with pressure like that he shouldn't be PM.
    Charles

    But Boris did deal with the pressure.

    His response was like the face of an Old English Sheepdog licking its chops after returning from an unsupervised trip to the kitchen.

    Or the look of innocence on the face the much adored and charming lover who returns home at 3:00 am in the morning after the last train "has been cancelled".

    We all know what has happened but, with some, we are inclined to forgive and with others not.

    It is not without reason that Boris remains married both to his second wife and second electorate.

    And Italy keeps wanting to re-elect Berlusconi.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,030
    edited March 2013
    AveryLP said:

    Charles said:

    AveryLP said:

    The BBC should be ashamed of itself.

    If a politician can't deal with pressure like that he shouldn't be PM.
    Charles

    But Boris did deal with the pressure.

    My favourite bit was when he asked Mair "Permission to obfuscate!" :)
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    SeanT said:

    Am I the first pb-er to comment, while sitting completely naked and utterly alone on a tiny uninhabited coralline atoll in the Indian Ocean

    When naked and drunk, I have generally found desert rather than deserted islands to be more of a peak experience.

    Are you truly alone, Sean?

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,235
    tim said:

    @TelePolitics: Danny Alexander fails to rule out letting wealthy people use state-backed mortgages to buy second homes http://t.co/2kNTV8WZvH

    I do not think that will go down well in the Highlands.

    Clearances: Part II
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    From the day he entered government, Danny Alexander seems to have calibrated his every action with a view to losing his Inverness seat at the next election. We probably shouldn't entirely rule out the possibility that he's already contemplating a quiet defection to the Tories a year or two after losing his seat, followed by a return to the Commons in an English seat.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2013
    tim said:

    Danny Alexander fails to rule out letting wealthy people use state-backed mortgages to buy second homes

    Of course he did, tim. The government are proposing to underwrite general economic risk not individual credit risk.

    Banning the application of the mortgage guarantee to second homes would be the equivalent of preventing high earners from using NHS hospitals.

    Why shouldn't grandparents buy a second home to enable their grandchildren to get a foot on the property ladder? It is how Kirsty Allsopp got to where she is today.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited March 2013

    "Ah, "Mother of four" that explains the SNP's poor polling with women"

    How come in today's poll the SNP are at 47% (the same as all three London parties combined) if they are "polling poorly with women"?

    Sorry James, should have been "Yes campaign" rather than SNP. Polls do show that women are less keen on "yes", than men, in Scotland. We can only speculate why.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,111

    "The Danish idea is that if a constitutional change is so uncontroversial that 85% of MPs agree with it, then it doesn't need a referendum, otherwise it does."

    That sounds like an excellent system, as long as there's no supermajority requirement for the referendums. Having said that, I seem to recall that Maastricht had the overwhelming support of Danish politicians, but clearly was controversial with the public - to the extent that they narrowly rejected it in the first referendum.

    No supermajority on referendums. My recollection is that there was indeed a blocking 1/6 in Parliament which forced Maastricht to a referendum - the far left and far right are both Eurosceptical.

  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Banks in Cyprus lower withdrawal limit on ATMs to €100 from around €200-300
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited March 2013
    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    Danny Alexander fails to rule out letting wealthy people use state-backed mortgages to buy second homes

    Of course he did, tim. The government are proposing to underwrite general economic risk not individual credit risk.

    If the purpose of the scheme is to prop up property prices, then it is reasonable to include second homes . In practice this is unlikely to happen, apart from the case that you cite of "the bank of Mum and Dad"

    Those who wish to purchase a second home are usually middle aged and either planning to holiday in the UK, perhaps subletting weeks to defray the cost, or planning to retire to the area of the second home.

    These are the people who tend to have significant capital in their primary residence so likely to be able to raise the deposit.

    In addition CGT is payable on any profits, so if there is a capital gain, the revenue wins again.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,111
    SeanT said:

    Am I the first pb-er to comment, while sitting completely naked and utterly alone on a tiny uninhabited coralline atoll in the Indian Ocean - and faced with a dwindling supply of Shiraz?

    I suspect so. But we have yet to hear from Nick Palmer.

    I expected the Maldives to be fun. 5 star hotels and free bubbly. Etc

    But this is a peak experience. Quite amazing.

    You've got me there. I'll offer you the Nikko hotel in HCMC, which has 9 separate buffets for different tastes of breakfast. And unlike your digs it's only £60/night...

    What intriges me about Ho Chi Minh City, if we're swapping travel stories, is that it's got such a Latin flavour - pavement cafes, cheerily chaotic drivers and bikers galore, random music all over the place, and people sitting on porches chatting and soaking up the baking heat. By contrast, Seoul is positively Swedish in its earnestness.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited March 2013
    SeanT said:

    Am I the first pb-er to comment, while sitting completely naked and utterly alone on a tiny uninhabited coralline atoll in the Indian Ocean - and faced with a dwindling supply of Shiraz?

    Are you sure you're alone on that small, coralline island, Sean? Nothing in the dark among the trees? No creature lurking in the waves? Are you sure you don't want to put a pig's head on a stick as a sacrifice, just in case there is a Beast?

  • samsam Posts: 727
    Make what you like of this from Lee Jasper, but I do once recall somebody on here pulling me up when I said he was black... I thought we must be talking about different people, but they were serious... Can't remember who that was... Anyway whoever it was had better let him know because he is under the same misapprehension as me!


    leejasper.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/immigration-wailing-banshee-of-racism.html?spref=tw
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Why is this minor bishop all over BBC News? I don't really see why someone gets such publicity for their views on immigration just because they happen to be a low level part of the Anglican hierarchy.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    edited March 2013
    To my mind "no parliament may bind a successor" is one of those phrases that are really the conclusion to an argument but are quoted as if they were the rule themselves. Even as Albert Venn Dicey sat writing that, defining the late-Victorian model of parliamentary sovereignty quite differently to what had preceded it, I don't think he really believed it as a maxim, standing alone. For one thing, Parliament was debating home rule for Ireland and therefore a probable reduction in Westminster MPs. In other words to reverse the motion, Parliament would be bound to follow its new constitution, not its old one. Same thing when we changed voting procedures. Also little known is the fact that Dicey was a staunch opponent of the Parliament Act 1911 (what would become it - he thought it would mean concessions to the Irish Nationalists, which it did). That created another way to make law (Commons + Act + Queen) to complement the old. It makes no sense to thing that methods might be created but not removed (it also doesn't fit with most jurisprudence, for example Hart's rule of recognition: I personally find some such accounts rather unsatisfying, but that's another story). There is little in Dicey's account (and he is rather badly informed in some of his work, particularly about other systems) to suggest it is anything more than descriptive; that, if circumstances changed, we should not disregard the rule as no longer applying to our system.

    Implied repeal is another interest area but this would lengthen this even more and, as my Professor would say, we'd have to order in pizza to get it finished.

    The long and the short of it is that political realities are more important, but I don't buy this argument which I think has been touched upon that therefore the provisions for entrenchment by supermajority mean nothing at all. Consider the Human Rights Act. Say that a court has made a declaration of incompatibility between Statute X and the Human Rights Act. Parliament would be perfectly able to exclude Statute X from the scope of the HRA, thus meaning there could be no declaration, no incompatibility, no issue. But no government wants to be seen to do that: it has set itself a benchmark and it would rather 'fail' by being consistent with that benchmark than abandon the benchmark. If you consider the recent fixed-term parliaments act, as I think a bit simpler (not real morals involved), then by laying down that supermajority requirement, there is a message that a party that repeals the act with a simple majority and goes to the polls early are putting political gain over the good of the country and should be punished. If there were a good reason (and for some reason the Opposition weren't on board) then they may still happen - but you'd not be going out there, saying "I've called an election" they'd have to say "Look, this is why I've called an election early. Here's why that's not encouraged generally, but this is why that doesn't apply here". Important difference, I think.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    I see the BBC is doing a documentary on the NHS, called "keeping Britain alive". Can you imagine if PBS in the US did a program called "Obamacare: saving America"? Shouldn't coverage of our socialist healthcare system be a bit more impartial?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,679
    What intriges me about Ho Chi Minh City, if we're swapping travel stories, is that it's got such a Latin flavour - pavement cafes, cheerily chaotic drivers and bikers galore, random music all over the place, and people sitting on porches chatting and soaking up the baking heat. By contrast, Seoul is positively Swedish in its earnestness.



    Talking to some people from Samsung recently they said that old Seoul was almost completely destroyed during the Korean war. By contrast, Saigon was left pretty unscathed because during the Vietnam War the Americans had complete control of the skies.

  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "I see the BBC is doing a documentary on the NHS, called "keeping Britain alive". Can you imagine if PBS in the US did a program called "Obamacare: saving America"?"

    Hardly the same thing - the NHS, at least in principle, has cross-party support.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited March 2013
    SeanT said:

    Am I the first pb-er to comment, while sitting completely naked and utterly alone on a tiny uninhabited coralline atoll in the Indian Ocean - and faced with a dwindling supply of Shiraz?

    I suspect so. But we have yet to hear from Nick Palmer.

    I expected the Maldives to be fun. 5 star hotels and free bubbly. Etc

    But this is a peak experience. Quite amazing.

    Enjoy it while it lasts. It won't be so much fun when it becomes an Islamic republic.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/30/maldives-closes-spas-after-protests
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @JamesKelly There are political viewpoints that exist outside the three establishment parties. Surely the BBC's impartiality is supposed to extend to being objective for other views. What's next? "Becoming humane: the abolition of the death penalty"? "Maintaining peace: one week at the European Commission"?
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "There are political viewpoints that exist outside the three establishment parties. Surely the BBC's impartiality is supposed to extend to being objective for other views."

    Evidently you didn't watch the "Prime Ministerial (sic) Debates".

    I think you're misreading the programme's title, by the way - whichever healthcare system we have would be keeping people alive to some extent, and I doubt if it means anything beyond that.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited March 2013


    I think you're misreading the programme's title, by the way - whichever healthcare system we have would be keeping people alive to some extent, and I doubt if it means anything beyond that.

    I hope so. The advert was very much along the lines of "look at everything the NHS does for us". But let's hope the show itself does a fair depiction of both its successes and its failures.

    Although I can't see them doing anything equivalent on private healthcare companies.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    "Probably fair, although extremely aggressive. If a politician can't deal with pressure like that he shouldn't be PM."

    If there's an average level of aggression in a political interview that people are accustomed to then if the BBC are allowed to suddenly switch the level up and down it means they can ambush anyone they want to damage.


    "According the World Bank, Cyprus has the highest level of corporate and personal debt to GDP in the world (c. 300% of GDP). Hard to see how to resolve this without depositors taking some kind of hit."

    i.e. not really about Russians. The haggling over the attempted Greek bailout took months so this was really an attempt to get a quick deal by ignoring the law and using Russkie money as a smokescreen.

    "Those who wish to purchase a second home are usually middle aged and either planning to holiday in the UK, perhaps subletting weeks to defray the cost, or planning to retire to the area of the second home."

    One of the main reasons - along with things like the gang culture that doesn't officially exist - why millions of people are gradually moving out of London (it's millions moving further out in 1 or 2 mile hops with the headline 600,000 figure only being those who hop past the boundary) is that so many of the family homes that have come on the market in inner London since the borders were opened get snapped up to be turned into multi-occupancy.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    "Why is this minor bishop all over BBC News?"

    The selection of who or what gets air-time allows the BBC can editorialize.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 45,373
    edited March 2013
    Socrates said:

    @JamesKelly There are political viewpoints that exist outside the three establishment parties. Surely the BBC's impartiality is supposed to extend to being objective for other views. What's next? "Becoming humane: the abolition of the death penalty"? "Maintaining peace: one week at the European Commission"?

    It is of course worth remembering you can - in search of impartiality - take this too far.

    We need to balance these NASA scientists, can we find a flat earther?

    We need to balance this paedophile story, can we find someone who thinks sex with children should be legal?

    I'm sure we could find someone who would legalise marriage to animals - should we add that as balance whenever a gay marriage story...
This discussion has been closed.