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Your regular reminder that the Tories & Reform are two discrete blocs not one homogenous bloc

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  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,040
    dixiedean said:

    Here's an idea.
    Instead of simply claiming mental health conditions aren't real, how about exerting some effort to explain why the rates are soaring? And make plans to treat and prevent them?
    Just a thought.

    100% agree. It can take around 4 months to access any kind of mental health support other than medication on the NHS. Sort that out first and then talk about reforming benefits otherwise you're stranding people with no support or income. There are so many people who think that mental health issues are just feeling a bit sad. It can be just as crippling as a physical illness.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,461
    edited 11:40AM

    Luke Tryl of MiC toys with the idea we are close to the desperate 'let Starmer be Starmer' death knell reset

    To be fair, Jed Bartlet won the next election and was in power for seven more years after it was decided to ‘let Bartlet be Bartlet’.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,788

    ((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges


    Fundamental thing being missed about the welfare rebellion. The legislation itself is wrong. 100% wrong. The welfare bill does need to be reduced. But targeting people with genuine disabilities, like MS and Parkinson, via their PIP payments is not the way to do it.

    Surely this is just targeting people with the very lowest level of disability. To get the lowest level of Daily Living PIP you will not only need 8 points but at least one measure must score at least 4 points, at the moment you could get it for four measures all scoring 2.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,283
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Another day another university set for strike action with belligerent language from the UcU union head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpkj18xjjo

    What a basket case our universities seems to be.

    Is there anyone who doesn't think the government should give them more money?
    Why ?

    A lot of this is down to a fall in demand for courses. Giving them more money won’t change that.
    Is it? Universities lose money on every home student they teach, because the government caps the fees at below-cost. For a while, the plan was to shimmy round that by bringing in lots of foreign students paying shedloads. For various reasons (including, but not restricted to, fear of numbers of people coming to the UK) that model has blown up.

    Suspect that puts universities in the same basket as a lot of other institutions. Yes they need more funding, yes that probably has to come from the taxpayer, no people won't be happy if the University of Theirtown closes down...

    ... but God forbid that taxes go up to pay for it.
    Which is why I think they should go for a merging of technical and academic - apprenticeships need an academic component, some rigour and transferability. The universities could provide that in partnership with the employers.
    You mean they could be like polytechics and technical colleges?
    Both technical and academic under a single roof - instead of having the iron dividing line between academic and blue collar, mix and match.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,408

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @eunews.social‬

    The Elon Musk effect continues as Europe’s Tesla sales drop for fifth month in a row

    Tesla's sales in Europe have plummeted for the fifth consecutive month, with new figures revealing a significant 28 per cent drop in May.

    So? What will be the story in June when they top the sales chart again?
    That Elon Musk has shut up about politics? That's the problem, not the cars.
    No, the problem is maths. They are lapping 2025 figures vs 2024 figures. 2024 includes sales of the best selling car globally in 2024. Vs no sales in 2025. Deliveries only started properly in June.

    The narrative is "nobody wants to buy a Tesla". Which is about to get demolished by like for like sales numbers in June.
    What does "They are lapping 2025 figures vs 2024 figures" mean?
    The story has been a loss of sales - you compare year on year.
    https://carexamer.com/blog/teslas-uk-car-sales-drop-over-45-in-may-whats-going-on/

    "Tesla’s UK car sales drop and took a major hit in May 2025, with a drop of over 45 percent compared to the same month last year. According to early data from various sources online suggest, Tesla registered only 1,758 cars, down sharply from 3,244 in May 2024. This decline happened even as the UK’s overall new car market grew by 4.3 percent year-on-year, with battery-electric vehicle (BEV) sales jumping by 28 percent. In short, more people are buying EVs — just not from Tesla."

    A drop of 45%. Vs the same month in 2024.

    In 2025 they were not selling the Model Y
    In 2024 they were selling the Model Y
    In 2024 the Model Y was the best selling car in the world

    My point is simple - this news agenda is deliberately misleading.
    You are also being a bit misleading; there was (and is) plenty of "legacy" Tesla Model Y stock available for sale, often at very good prices.

    So it is not the case that Model Y sales dropped to zero in May due to the existence of the new Model Y.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,057

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Guido can exclusively reveal that in the background Labour has been busy negotiating a one in, one out asylum seeker deal with the French for revelation within days. It’s a big policy – intended to be unveiled for Starmer’s one-year anniversary as a rabbit…

    The policy is intended to break the small boats model – a percentage of asylum seekers will be returned to France on landing while the same number of applicants at the asylum processing centre in Paris will be accepted.

    https://order-order.com/2025/06/26/exc-starmer-to-agree-one-in-one-out-asylum-exchange-with-france-for-labour-anniversary/

    That's a really clever policy. I hope it works.
    If all landings are immediately sent back to France then it could work but lets wait the details
    What’s to stop them just trying again? Once returned to France?
    And if its a percentage of those that land flown back to CDG then are we selecting randomly? Courts involved? Are they all going to the sauna at the hotel until, we decide?
    What happens if it works and the number drops close to zero? What incentive would the French then have to continue the agreement?
    I would just add there has been an increase in the use of private yachts ferrying immigrants well away from Dover, and these yachts can land unchallenged almost anywhere
    I don't where our friend has found his figures, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was right.
    The Essex coast has many small creeks where yachts etc could land groups of migrants and while Essex is supposed to be a hotbed of Reform supporters opposed to immigration, the lure of a quick buck is very strong.
    I don't (can't) frequent yachting circles now, but as I say, I wouldn't be at all surprised.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,788

    ((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges


    Fundamental thing being missed about the welfare rebellion. The legislation itself is wrong. 100% wrong. The welfare bill does need to be reduced. But targeting people with genuine disabilities, like MS and Parkinson, via their PIP payments is not the way to do it.

    I thought the whole point was that PIP started off with that, but now there are large numbers of claimants on it for things like anxiety and mental health and that later group is the one being targeted by this welfare reform bill?
    No, its not. It would be get rare to get PIP for daily living activities because of 'anxiety'
    You get points tallied for the effect of your disability on the following sorts of daily activity

    Going to the toilet
    Washing
    Dressing and undressing
    Communicating with others
    Making budgeting decisions
    Taking medication
    Understanding communication, verbal and otherwise
    Preparing a simple meal from scratch
    Etc

    If your diagnosis is 'anxiety' you would need to demonstrate to the assessors how that impacts your ability to do the above, what help you need to do them and what happens if you do not have that help before any points would be awarded

    For the mobility aspect of PIP the points are awarded for
    Making and planning a journey and
    Ability to move 50m and then 200m without assistance
    I have certainly seen DL awarded for mental health conditions. Usually on the basis that you are too depressed to clean, or wash your clothes, etc.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,408
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @eunews.social‬

    The Elon Musk effect continues as Europe’s Tesla sales drop for fifth month in a row

    Tesla's sales in Europe have plummeted for the fifth consecutive month, with new figures revealing a significant 28 per cent drop in May.

    So? What will be the story in June when they top the sales chart again?
    That Elon Musk has shut up about politics? That's the problem, not the cars.
    No, the problem is maths. They are lapping 2025 figures vs 2024 figures. 2024 includes sales of the best selling car globally in 2024. Vs no sales in 2025. Deliveries only started properly in June.

    The narrative is "nobody wants to buy a Tesla". Which is about to get demolished by like for like sales numbers in June.
    What does "They are lapping 2025 figures vs 2024 figures" mean?
    The story has been a loss of sales - you compare year on year.
    https://carexamer.com/blog/teslas-uk-car-sales-drop-over-45-in-may-whats-going-on/

    "Tesla’s UK car sales drop and took a major hit in May 2025, with a drop of over 45 percent compared to the same month last year. According to early data from various sources online suggest, Tesla registered only 1,758 cars, down sharply from 3,244 in May 2024. This decline happened even as the UK’s overall new car market grew by 4.3 percent year-on-year, with battery-electric vehicle (BEV) sales jumping by 28 percent. In short, more people are buying EVs — just not from Tesla."

    A drop of 45%. Vs the same month in 2024.

    In 2025 they were not selling the Model Y
    In 2024 they were selling the Model Y
    In 2024 the Model Y was the best selling car in the world

    My point is simple - this news agenda is deliberately misleading.
    You are also being a bit misleading; there was (and is) plenty of "legacy" Tesla Model Y stock available for sale, often at very good prices.

    So it is not the case that Model Y sales dropped to zero in May due to the existence of the new Model Y.
    Here you go: here's Tesla's inventory of new, available for delivery now, Model Ys in the UK.

    https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/inventory/new/my?arrangeby=plh&zip=WC1H 8AN&range=0
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,230
    edited 11:27AM
    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    'New town' planned for west London brownfield land
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgnw90ve9vo

    The new town is welcome, although 25,000 homes sounds more like a new housing estate.

    But we need to do this somewhere else and not make the country even more reliant on London.

    Is calling it a 'new town' a way to tap into central government funding?
    There's something screwy somewhere, perhaps. 50k people give or take on 70 acres does not quite add up.

    That is 600-700 per acre. The Barbican is 228 per acre.

    It can be done, but it would be a surprise there.
    Kowloon Walled City had almost 50,000 people in just six acres. So this would be less than one tenth the population density.
    I lived for six years in the second most densely populated city in the world.
    38 000 per square kilometre.
    The only real hassle was when the next door temple had their annual 72 hour Chinese Opera.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,942
    edited 11:29AM
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @eunews.social‬

    The Elon Musk effect continues as Europe’s Tesla sales drop for fifth month in a row

    Tesla's sales in Europe have plummeted for the fifth consecutive month, with new figures revealing a significant 28 per cent drop in May.

    So? What will be the story in June when they top the sales chart again?
    Surprise that Tesla have actually sold some cars - personally I don’t see any reason why sales will improve. The new car looks little different from the old one
    Putting aside all the Musk stuff, in my humble opinion Tesla's are starting to look really dated now.
    They are looking a bit dated.

    For a long time, there was essentially no competition - and what there was was crap (see the Ford E-Mustang). And so Tesla got ... if not complacent, then at least comfortable. Their focus shifted to the Cybertruck, to the new Roadster and to the Semi truck. On the software side, self driving was all.

    Now, Tesla has decent competition for the first time, and they haven't really refreshed their model lineup. And there's been this discontinuity caused by Elon pissing off his natural supporters.

    It's a perfect storm for them to lose market share.
    I think the software / UI is still if not ahead of the game, at the leading edge, but externally the shapes look old now. Now I am not exactly sold on the KIA Cyberpunk look or the BMW disgusting frontends and not sure what Mercs are up to. While VW / Audi have Windows Vista-esque shit software (which they hope to rectify after buying Rivian). But Tesla definitely now lacking lots of very interesting features that the Chinese by processing of throwing the kitchen sink at everything have come up with.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,294
    dixiedean said:

    Here's an idea.
    Instead of simply claiming mental health conditions aren't real, how about exerting some effort to explain why the rates are soaring? And make plans to treat and prevent them?
    Just a thought.

    Its complex isn't it? I see a lot of students claiming lots of things that will potentially game the system. The uni has a system of allowing students to get DAPs (disability access plans). Quite often these will get the student extra time in exams (typically 20 % longer) than students without a DAP. Or they might get rest breaks (10 minutes every hour). Its a significant chunk of the study body.

    Now I cannot know if all are genuine. Maybe they are. But I strongly suspect that many have realised that getting a DAP gives them an advantage so they find a way to get it.

    On mental health conditions, I think we need to be sympathetic and have a culture that is supportive, but also one where people have responsibilities too. I've been blessed in my life with my mental health. I don't think I've ever been depressed, for instance (other than short term after being dumped by a girl I really liked). So I don't know how it feels. But there are plenty of people who do and can advise on how to cope best.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,973

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Another day another university set for strike action with belligerent language from the UcU union head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpkj18xjjo

    What a basket case our universities seems to be.

    Is there anyone who doesn't think the government should give them more money?
    Why ?

    A lot of this is down to a fall in demand for courses. Giving them more money won’t change that.
    Is it? Universities lose money on every home student they teach, because the government caps the fees at below-cost. For a while, the plan was to shimmy round that by bringing in lots of foreign students paying shedloads. For various reasons (including, but not restricted to, fear of numbers of people coming to the UK) that model has blown up.

    Suspect that puts universities in the same basket as a lot of other institutions. Yes they need more funding, yes that probably has to come from the taxpayer, no people won't be happy if the University of Theirtown closes down...

    ... but God forbid that taxes go up to pay for it.
    Do they?

    Thinking back to my own University days there were about 200 students in the lecture hall. Each student is paying close to £8000 in fees per annum.

    That cohort then is paying between them £1.6mn in fees, even if they're all home students.

    If the universities aren't able to make money on that, then maybe their costs are too high, rather than fees too low.
    Some subjects they absolutely don't get close to covering the cost. Basically, most STEM subjects. Also, students are way more demanding now in what they expect the university to provide and since the government made it a market, they all have to provide these things.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture theatre based I don't see why they can't make money, if ran efficiently. The latter part is an issue though.

    For medicine/engineering etc there's more involved but compare the class sizes in lecture theatres to the class sizes in primary/high schools and there's little reason why lecture theatre-based courses aren't making money from home students.

    Especially when students maybe have about 12-15 hours of lectures a week, not full time.
    Other than maths, no STEM subject is just lecture thearte based, they all need labs and they are very expensive to run. Also, they aren't part-time, STEM subjects often are basically in either lectures or labs closer to 20-30hrs a week.

    I definitely think in general universities aren't run very efficiently, but it is widely acknowledged that things like Chemistry, easily cost £15k / year / student to run due to all the extras that are required to be provided.

    Actually even maths now isn't just sit in the lecture theatre and write down all this crazy stuff off the blackboard. There is a lot of interest in theory of ML, application of ML to solving really hard problems, and then you need PC labs with GPU clusters.
    The cap on fees is ridiculous. The demand is there from the students but universities are suffering from inflation just as the wider economy is too. And add in the NI changes. Plus Uni academics have had the same pay deflation as medics over the same time.

    It also a nonsense as some (well one) on here seem to believe a STEM course can be entirely lecture based. What world is he/she living on?

    And lastly - the cap on fees is disadvantaging UK citizens. I'm admissions tutor for my course and I have been told that we will likely be in clearing for overseas students, but NOT for home. The uni sees overseas as more attractive because they pay more.

    I have no doubt that universities could be better run. We employ a lot of staff that never teach students or do research. Bath has a very well resourced widening access team, aiming to get students from poorer, disadvantaged backgrounds to uni. Its a laudable aim but we pour money into it for relatively few bums on seats. Academics are constantly wasting time on admin tasks that aren't really important. And DEI plays a role here as we have to be hitting all our DEI targets etc.

    But frankly the big one is the fees. Let unis charge more and let it become a proper market.
    I never said all courses are entirely lecture based, however many courses are yet still face the same close to £10k in fees so swings and roundabouts.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture based... Which ones are those then?
    Economics if you class the quantitative side as STEM, that's what I studied my BSc in and it was predominantly lecture based.

    As far as I understand it most mathematics/statistical courses, theoretical physics, computer science, quantitative economics etc are still predominantly lecture based at an undergraduate level.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Economics is not a science. And you are missing the small group teaching element - did you never have tutorials, workshops etc?
    Have you never heard of BSc (Econ)?
    My degree is also titled as a BSc(Econ) and like Barty I am a questionable economist. Scientific rigour is certainly missing. Although in my favour (and not Barty's) I think the Laffer Curve is nonsense.
    The Laffer Curve is not nonsense, but most applications of it are.

    Too often, including by Laffer himself, the Curve is used as a justification to cut the top-rate of tax on the highest earners without any evidence as to whether or why we are past the peak for that rate . . . while ignoring significantly real higher rates of tax that exist which are far more distorting, such as our cliff edges.

    There are countless stories of people changing their behaviour at cliff edges, where tax rates approach or even exceed 100%, because they're rational. That's Laffer in action, rather than piddling about at 45p or whatever.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,283

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Another day another university set for strike action with belligerent language from the UcU union head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpkj18xjjo

    What a basket case our universities seems to be.

    Is there anyone who doesn't think the government should give them more money?
    Why ?

    A lot of this is down to a fall in demand for courses. Giving them more money won’t change that.
    Is it? Universities lose money on every home student they teach, because the government caps the fees at below-cost. For a while, the plan was to shimmy round that by bringing in lots of foreign students paying shedloads. For various reasons (including, but not restricted to, fear of numbers of people coming to the UK) that model has blown up.

    Suspect that puts universities in the same basket as a lot of other institutions. Yes they need more funding, yes that probably has to come from the taxpayer, no people won't be happy if the University of Theirtown closes down...

    ... but God forbid that taxes go up to pay for it.
    Do they?

    Thinking back to my own University days there were about 200 students in the lecture hall. Each student is paying close to £8000 in fees per annum.

    That cohort then is paying between them £1.6mn in fees, even if they're all home students.

    If the universities aren't able to make money on that, then maybe their costs are too high, rather than fees too low.
    Some subjects they absolutely don't get close to covering the cost. Basically, most STEM subjects. Also, students are way more demanding now in what they expect the university to provide and since the government made it a market, they all have to provide these things.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture theatre based I don't see why they can't make money, if ran efficiently. The latter part is an issue though.

    For medicine/engineering etc there's more involved but compare the class sizes in lecture theatres to the class sizes in primary/high schools and there's little reason why lecture theatre-based courses aren't making money from home students.

    Especially when students maybe have about 12-15 hours of lectures a week, not full time.
    Other than maths, no STEM subject is just lecture thearte based, they all need labs and they are very expensive to run. Also, they aren't part-time, STEM subjects often are basically in either lectures or labs closer to 20-30hrs a week.

    I definitely think in general universities aren't run very efficiently, but it is widely acknowledged that things like Chemistry, easily cost £15k / year / student to run due to all the extras that are required to be provided.

    Actually even maths now isn't just sit in the lecture theatre and write down all this crazy stuff off the blackboard. There is a lot of interest in theory of ML, application of ML to solving really hard problems, and then you need PC labs with GPU clusters.
    The cap on fees is ridiculous. The demand is there from the students but universities are suffering from inflation just as the wider economy is too. And add in the NI changes. Plus Uni academics have had the same pay deflation as medics over the same time.

    It also a nonsense as some (well one) on here seem to believe a STEM course can be entirely lecture based. What world is he/she living on?

    And lastly - the cap on fees is disadvantaging UK citizens. I'm admissions tutor for my course and I have been told that we will likely be in clearing for overseas students, but NOT for home. The uni sees overseas as more attractive because they pay more.

    I have no doubt that universities could be better run. We employ a lot of staff that never teach students or do research. Bath has a very well resourced widening access team, aiming to get students from poorer, disadvantaged backgrounds to uni. Its a laudable aim but we pour money into it for relatively few bums on seats. Academics are constantly wasting time on admin tasks that aren't really important. And DEI plays a role here as we have to be hitting all our DEI targets etc.

    But frankly the big one is the fees. Let unis charge more and let it become a proper market.
    I never said all courses are entirely lecture based, however many courses are yet still face the same close to £10k in fees so swings and roundabouts.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture based... Which ones are those then?
    Economics if you class the quantitative side as STEM, that's what I studied my BSc in and it was predominantly lecture based.

    As far as I understand it most mathematics/statistical courses, theoretical physics, computer science, quantitative economics etc are still predominantly lecture based at an undergraduate level.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Economics is not a science. And you are missing the small group teaching element - did you never have tutorials, workshops etc?
    Have you never heard of BSc (Econ)?
    My degree is also titled as a BSc(Econ) and like Barty I am a questionable economist. Scientific rigour is certainly missing. Although in my favour (and not Barty's) I think the Laffer Curve is nonsense.
    The Laffer Curve is not nonsense, but most applications of it are.

    Too often, including by Laffer himself, the Curve is used as a justification to cut the top-rate of tax on the highest earners without any evidence as to whether or why we are past the peak for that rate . . . while ignoring significantly real higher rates of tax that exist which are far more distorting, such as our cliff edges.

    There are countless stories of people changing their behaviour at cliff edges, where tax rates approach or even exceed 100%, because they're rational. That's Laffer in action, rather than piddling about at 45p or whatever.
    I’ve sat across from people saying they don’t want to work more hours, because of benefit withdrawal creating an 80% effective tax rate on the extra hours.

    If that isn’t Laffer Curve behaviour, what is?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,942
    edited 11:35AM

    dixiedean said:

    Here's an idea.
    Instead of simply claiming mental health conditions aren't real, how about exerting some effort to explain why the rates are soaring? And make plans to treat and prevent them?
    Just a thought.

    Its complex isn't it? I see a lot of students claiming lots of things that will potentially game the system. The uni has a system of allowing students to get DAPs (disability access plans). Quite often these will get the student extra time in exams (typically 20 % longer) than students without a DAP. Or they might get rest breaks (10 minutes every hour). Its a significant chunk of the study body.

    Now I cannot know if all are genuine. Maybe they are. But I strongly suspect that many have realised that getting a DAP gives them an advantage so they find a way to get it..

    On mental health conditions, I think we need to be sympathetic and have a culture that is supportive, but also one where people have responsibilities too. I've been blessed in my life with my mental health. I don't think I've ever been depressed, for instance (other than short term after being dumped by a girl I really liked). So I don't know how it feels. But there are plenty of people who do and can advise on how to cope best.
    Also if you feel everybody else around you is getting it, that in turn makes you anxious. Also, speaking to academics, the graduate market is very tough competition due to shear number of graduates and a fair amount of grade inflation means 2:1 is defacto standard. In addition to the wide use of AI to do the first sifts of CVs and requesting full transcripts of marks, has resulted in students being incredibly worried about every single assessment having some major impact on their future prospects. That sounds like very easy to feel under a lot of pressure and anxious.

    Where in my day as an undergrad, a lot of people slacked for periods of time and thought well as long as get the 2:1 in the end, there is still loads of graduate jobs out there.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,973

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Another day another university set for strike action with belligerent language from the UcU union head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpkj18xjjo

    What a basket case our universities seems to be.

    Is there anyone who doesn't think the government should give them more money?
    Why ?

    A lot of this is down to a fall in demand for courses. Giving them more money won’t change that.
    Is it? Universities lose money on every home student they teach, because the government caps the fees at below-cost. For a while, the plan was to shimmy round that by bringing in lots of foreign students paying shedloads. For various reasons (including, but not restricted to, fear of numbers of people coming to the UK) that model has blown up.

    Suspect that puts universities in the same basket as a lot of other institutions. Yes they need more funding, yes that probably has to come from the taxpayer, no people won't be happy if the University of Theirtown closes down...

    ... but God forbid that taxes go up to pay for it.
    Do they?

    Thinking back to my own University days there were about 200 students in the lecture hall. Each student is paying close to £8000 in fees per annum.

    That cohort then is paying between them £1.6mn in fees, even if they're all home students.

    If the universities aren't able to make money on that, then maybe their costs are too high, rather than fees too low.
    Some subjects they absolutely don't get close to covering the cost. Basically, most STEM subjects. Also, students are way more demanding now in what they expect the university to provide and since the government made it a market, they all have to provide these things.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture theatre based I don't see why they can't make money, if ran efficiently. The latter part is an issue though.

    For medicine/engineering etc there's more involved but compare the class sizes in lecture theatres to the class sizes in primary/high schools and there's little reason why lecture theatre-based courses aren't making money from home students.

    Especially when students maybe have about 12-15 hours of lectures a week, not full time.
    Other than maths, no STEM subject is just lecture thearte based, they all need labs and they are very expensive to run. Also, they aren't part-time, STEM subjects often are basically in either lectures or labs closer to 20-30hrs a week.

    I definitely think in general universities aren't run very efficiently, but it is widely acknowledged that things like Chemistry, easily cost £15k / year / student to run due to all the extras that are required to be provided.

    Actually even maths now isn't just sit in the lecture theatre and write down all this crazy stuff off the blackboard. There is a lot of interest in theory of ML, application of ML to solving really hard problems, and then you need PC labs with GPU clusters.
    The cap on fees is ridiculous. The demand is there from the students but universities are suffering from inflation just as the wider economy is too. And add in the NI changes. Plus Uni academics have had the same pay deflation as medics over the same time.

    It also a nonsense as some (well one) on here seem to believe a STEM course can be entirely lecture based. What world is he/she living on?

    And lastly - the cap on fees is disadvantaging UK citizens. I'm admissions tutor for my course and I have been told that we will likely be in clearing for overseas students, but NOT for home. The uni sees overseas as more attractive because they pay more.

    I have no doubt that universities could be better run. We employ a lot of staff that never teach students or do research. Bath has a very well resourced widening access team, aiming to get students from poorer, disadvantaged backgrounds to uni. Its a laudable aim but we pour money into it for relatively few bums on seats. Academics are constantly wasting time on admin tasks that aren't really important. And DEI plays a role here as we have to be hitting all our DEI targets etc.

    But frankly the big one is the fees. Let unis charge more and let it become a proper market.
    I never said all courses are entirely lecture based, however many courses are yet still face the same close to £10k in fees so swings and roundabouts.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture based... Which ones are those then?
    Economics if you class the quantitative side as STEM, that's what I studied my BSc in and it was predominantly lecture based.

    As far as I understand it most mathematics/statistical courses, theoretical physics, computer science, quantitative economics etc are still predominantly lecture based at an undergraduate level.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Economics is not a science. And you are missing the small group teaching element - did you never have tutorials, workshops etc?
    Have you never heard of BSc (Econ)?
    My degree is also titled as a BSc(Econ) and like Barty I am a questionable economist. Scientific rigour is certainly missing. Although in my favour (and not Barty's) I think the Laffer Curve is nonsense.
    The Laffer Curve is not nonsense, but most applications of it are.

    Too often, including by Laffer himself, the Curve is used as a justification to cut the top-rate of tax on the highest earners without any evidence as to whether or why we are past the peak for that rate . . . while ignoring significantly real higher rates of tax that exist which are far more distorting, such as our cliff edges.

    There are countless stories of people changing their behaviour at cliff edges, where tax rates approach or even exceed 100%, because they're rational. That's Laffer in action, rather than piddling about at 45p or whatever.
    I’ve sat across from people saying they don’t want to work more hours, because of benefit withdrawal creating an 80% effective tax rate on the extra hours.

    If that isn’t Laffer Curve behaviour, what is?
    Same. Or that they'll only work if they can get cash in hand.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,408

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @eunews.social‬

    The Elon Musk effect continues as Europe’s Tesla sales drop for fifth month in a row

    Tesla's sales in Europe have plummeted for the fifth consecutive month, with new figures revealing a significant 28 per cent drop in May.

    So? What will be the story in June when they top the sales chart again?
    Surprise that Tesla have actually sold some cars - personally I don’t see any reason why sales will improve. The new car looks little different from the old one
    Putting aside all the Musk stuff, in my humble opinion Tesla's are starting to look really dated now.
    They are looking a bit dated.

    For a long time, there was essentially no competition - and what there was was crap (see the Ford E-Mustang). And so Tesla got ... if not complacent, then at least comfortable. Their focus shifted to the Cybertruck, to the new Roadster and to the Semi truck. On the software side, self driving was all.

    Now, Tesla has decent competition for the first time, and they haven't really refreshed their model lineup. And there's been this discontinuity caused by Elon pissing off his natural supporters.

    It's a perfect storm for them to lose market share.
    I think the software / UI is still if not ahead of the game, at the leading edge, but externally the shapes look old now. Now I am not exactly sold on the KIA Cyberpunk look or the BMW disgusting frontends and not sure what Mercs are up to. While VW / Audi have Windows Vista-esque shit software (which they hope to rectify after buying Rivian). But Tesla definitely now lacking lots of very interesting features that the Chinese by processing of throwing the kitchen sink at everything have come up with.
    Their software is absolutely miles better than Ford, VW and Chevrolet.

    But the software on my wife's Fiat 500E's is (rather to my surprise) really good (with the exception of the fact that it still - weirdly - requires you to press a button on the dashboard to turn it on. And only then can you put it in Drive.

    The Rivian software is also a near perfect copy of Tesla's.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,380
    dixiedean said:

    Here's an idea.
    Instead of simply claiming mental health conditions aren't real, how about exerting some effort to explain why the rates are soaring? And make plans to treat and prevent them?
    Just a thought.

    I agree but part of the soaring levels is surely better identification and recognition of mental health issues.

    The suicide rate in the general population has fallen over the last 40 heads suggests that is a large part of it, albeit is has increased somewhat in the last 15.

    I like that primary schools are teaching children about their emotions a lot more than when I was a child. Prevention of mental health issues is better than a cure.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,608
    ...

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Another day another university set for strike action with belligerent language from the UcU union head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpkj18xjjo

    What a basket case our universities seems to be.

    Is there anyone who doesn't think the government should give them more money?
    Why ?

    A lot of this is down to a fall in demand for courses. Giving them more money won’t change that.
    Is it? Universities lose money on every home student they teach, because the government caps the fees at below-cost. For a while, the plan was to shimmy round that by bringing in lots of foreign students paying shedloads. For various reasons (including, but not restricted to, fear of numbers of people coming to the UK) that model has blown up.

    Suspect that puts universities in the same basket as a lot of other institutions. Yes they need more funding, yes that probably has to come from the taxpayer, no people won't be happy if the University of Theirtown closes down...

    ... but God forbid that taxes go up to pay for it.
    Do they?

    Thinking back to my own University days there were about 200 students in the lecture hall. Each student is paying close to £8000 in fees per annum.

    That cohort then is paying between them £1.6mn in fees, even if they're all home students.

    If the universities aren't able to make money on that, then maybe their costs are too high, rather than fees too low.
    Some subjects they absolutely don't get close to covering the cost. Basically, most STEM subjects. Also, students are way more demanding now in what they expect the university to provide and since the government made it a market, they all have to provide these things.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture theatre based I don't see why they can't make money, if ran efficiently. The latter part is an issue though.

    For medicine/engineering etc there's more involved but compare the class sizes in lecture theatres to the class sizes in primary/high schools and there's little reason why lecture theatre-based courses aren't making money from home students.

    Especially when students maybe have about 12-15 hours of lectures a week, not full time.
    Other than maths, no STEM subject is just lecture thearte based, they all need labs and they are very expensive to run. Also, they aren't part-time, STEM subjects often are basically in either lectures or labs closer to 20-30hrs a week.

    I definitely think in general universities aren't run very efficiently, but it is widely acknowledged that things like Chemistry, easily cost £15k / year / student to run due to all the extras that are required to be provided.

    Actually even maths now isn't just sit in the lecture theatre and write down all this crazy stuff off the blackboard. There is a lot of interest in theory of ML, application of ML to solving really hard problems, and then you need PC labs with GPU clusters.
    The cap on fees is ridiculous. The demand is there from the students but universities are suffering from inflation just as the wider economy is too. And add in the NI changes. Plus Uni academics have had the same pay deflation as medics over the same time.

    It also a nonsense as some (well one) on here seem to believe a STEM course can be entirely lecture based. What world is he/she living on?

    And lastly - the cap on fees is disadvantaging UK citizens. I'm admissions tutor for my course and I have been told that we will likely be in clearing for overseas students, but NOT for home. The uni sees overseas as more attractive because they pay more.

    I have no doubt that universities could be better run. We employ a lot of staff that never teach students or do research. Bath has a very well resourced widening access team, aiming to get students from poorer, disadvantaged backgrounds to uni. Its a laudable aim but we pour money into it for relatively few bums on seats. Academics are constantly wasting time on admin tasks that aren't really important. And DEI plays a role here as we have to be hitting all our DEI targets etc.

    But frankly the big one is the fees. Let unis charge more and let it become a proper market.
    I never said all courses are entirely lecture based, however many courses are yet still face the same close to £10k in fees so swings and roundabouts.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture based... Which ones are those then?
    Economics if you class the quantitative side as STEM, that's what I studied my BSc in and it was predominantly lecture based.

    As far as I understand it most mathematics/statistical courses, theoretical physics, computer science, quantitative economics etc are still predominantly lecture based at an undergraduate level.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Economics is not a science. And you are missing the small group teaching element - did you never have tutorials, workshops etc?
    Have you never heard of BSc (Econ)?
    My degree is also titled as a BSc(Econ) and like Barty I am a questionable economist. Scientific rigour is certainly missing. Although in my favour (and not Barty's) I think the Laffer Curve is nonsense.
    The Laffer Curve is not nonsense, but most applications of it are.

    Too often, including by Laffer himself, the Curve is used as a justification to cut the top-rate of tax on the highest earners without any evidence as to whether or why we are past the peak for that rate . . . while ignoring significantly real higher rates of tax that exist which are far more distorting, such as our cliff edges.

    There are countless stories of people changing their behaviour at cliff edges, where tax rates approach or even exceed 100%, because they're rational. That's Laffer in action, rather than piddling about at 45p or whatever.
    So in practice the Laffer Curve doesn't work. Thank you for clearing that up.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,025

    ((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges


    Fundamental thing being missed about the welfare rebellion. The legislation itself is wrong. 100% wrong. The welfare bill does need to be reduced. But targeting people with genuine disabilities, like MS and Parkinson, via their PIP payments is not the way to do it.

    I thought the whole point was that PIP started off with that, but now there are large numbers of claimants on it for things like anxiety and mental health and that later group is the one being targeted by this welfare reform bill?
    No, its not. It would be get rare to get PIP for daily living activities because of 'anxiety'
    You get points tallied for the effect of your disability on the following sorts of daily activity

    Going to the toilet
    Washing
    Dressing and undressing
    Communicating with others
    Making budgeting decisions
    Taking medication
    Understanding communication, verbal and otherwise
    Preparing a simple meal from scratch
    Etc

    If your diagnosis is 'anxiety' you would need to demonstrate to the assessors how that impacts your ability to do the above, what help you need to do them and what happens if you do not have that help before any points would be awarded

    For the mobility aspect of PIP the points are awarded for
    Making and planning a journey and
    Ability to move 50m and then 200m without assistance
    I have certainly seen DL awarded for mental health conditions. Usually on the basis that you are too depressed to clean, or wash your clothes, etc.
    I didn't say it wasn't awarded for mental health conditions. If your medical evidence and assessment supports an impact on your ability to do some, one or all of the activities then the extent to which that happens will determine the level of any support.
    Anxiety is often, rather than an isolated condition, an effect of underlying mental or physical health issues. In and of itself its not likely to lead to a long term PIP award or LCWRA UC
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,025

    Luke Tryl of MiC toys with the idea we are close to the desperate 'let Starmer be Starmer' death knell reset

    To be fair, Jed Bartlet won the next election and was in power for seven more years after it was decided to ‘let Barlet be Bartlet’.
    Shit imaginary Democrat presidents with hideous staff don't count
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,942
    edited 11:42AM
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @eunews.social‬

    The Elon Musk effect continues as Europe’s Tesla sales drop for fifth month in a row

    Tesla's sales in Europe have plummeted for the fifth consecutive month, with new figures revealing a significant 28 per cent drop in May.

    So? What will be the story in June when they top the sales chart again?
    Surprise that Tesla have actually sold some cars - personally I don’t see any reason why sales will improve. The new car looks little different from the old one
    Putting aside all the Musk stuff, in my humble opinion Tesla's are starting to look really dated now.
    They are looking a bit dated.

    For a long time, there was essentially no competition - and what there was was crap (see the Ford E-Mustang). And so Tesla got ... if not complacent, then at least comfortable. Their focus shifted to the Cybertruck, to the new Roadster and to the Semi truck. On the software side, self driving was all.

    Now, Tesla has decent competition for the first time, and they haven't really refreshed their model lineup. And there's been this discontinuity caused by Elon pissing off his natural supporters.

    It's a perfect storm for them to lose market share.
    I think the software / UI is still if not ahead of the game, at the leading edge, but externally the shapes look old now. Now I am not exactly sold on the KIA Cyberpunk look or the BMW disgusting frontends and not sure what Mercs are up to. While VW / Audi have Windows Vista-esque shit software (which they hope to rectify after buying Rivian). But Tesla definitely now lacking lots of very interesting features that the Chinese by processing of throwing the kitchen sink at everything have come up with.
    Their software is absolutely miles better than Ford, VW and Chevrolet.

    But the software on my wife's Fiat 500E's is (rather to my surprise) really good (with the exception of the fact that it still - weirdly - requires you to press a button on the dashboard to turn it on. And only then can you put it in Drive.

    The Rivian software is also a near perfect copy of Tesla's.
    Maybe its just me, but I find myself looking back at a lot of the higher-end German cars from 10 years ago and I still think they look great even today, better than the modern equivalents.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,461

    Luke Tryl of MiC toys with the idea we are close to the desperate 'let Starmer be Starmer' death knell reset

    To be fair, Jed Bartlet won the next election and was in power for seven more years after it was decided to ‘let Barlet be Bartlet’.
    Shit imaginary Democrat presidents with hideous staff don't count
    A former MP once said if I had become a SPAD I was so Josh Lyman.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,158

    ...

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Another day another university set for strike action with belligerent language from the UcU union head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpkj18xjjo

    What a basket case our universities seems to be.

    Is there anyone who doesn't think the government should give them more money?
    Why ?

    A lot of this is down to a fall in demand for courses. Giving them more money won’t change that.
    Is it? Universities lose money on every home student they teach, because the government caps the fees at below-cost. For a while, the plan was to shimmy round that by bringing in lots of foreign students paying shedloads. For various reasons (including, but not restricted to, fear of numbers of people coming to the UK) that model has blown up.

    Suspect that puts universities in the same basket as a lot of other institutions. Yes they need more funding, yes that probably has to come from the taxpayer, no people won't be happy if the University of Theirtown closes down...

    ... but God forbid that taxes go up to pay for it.
    Do they?

    Thinking back to my own University days there were about 200 students in the lecture hall. Each student is paying close to £8000 in fees per annum.

    That cohort then is paying between them £1.6mn in fees, even if they're all home students.

    If the universities aren't able to make money on that, then maybe their costs are too high, rather than fees too low.
    Some subjects they absolutely don't get close to covering the cost. Basically, most STEM subjects. Also, students are way more demanding now in what they expect the university to provide and since the government made it a market, they all have to provide these things.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture theatre based I don't see why they can't make money, if ran efficiently. The latter part is an issue though.

    For medicine/engineering etc there's more involved but compare the class sizes in lecture theatres to the class sizes in primary/high schools and there's little reason why lecture theatre-based courses aren't making money from home students.

    Especially when students maybe have about 12-15 hours of lectures a week, not full time.
    Other than maths, no STEM subject is just lecture thearte based, they all need labs and they are very expensive to run. Also, they aren't part-time, STEM subjects often are basically in either lectures or labs closer to 20-30hrs a week.

    I definitely think in general universities aren't run very efficiently, but it is widely acknowledged that things like Chemistry, easily cost £15k / year / student to run due to all the extras that are required to be provided.

    Actually even maths now isn't just sit in the lecture theatre and write down all this crazy stuff off the blackboard. There is a lot of interest in theory of ML, application of ML to solving really hard problems, and then you need PC labs with GPU clusters.
    The cap on fees is ridiculous. The demand is there from the students but universities are suffering from inflation just as the wider economy is too. And add in the NI changes. Plus Uni academics have had the same pay deflation as medics over the same time.

    It also a nonsense as some (well one) on here seem to believe a STEM course can be entirely lecture based. What world is he/she living on?

    And lastly - the cap on fees is disadvantaging UK citizens. I'm admissions tutor for my course and I have been told that we will likely be in clearing for overseas students, but NOT for home. The uni sees overseas as more attractive because they pay more.

    I have no doubt that universities could be better run. We employ a lot of staff that never teach students or do research. Bath has a very well resourced widening access team, aiming to get students from poorer, disadvantaged backgrounds to uni. Its a laudable aim but we pour money into it for relatively few bums on seats. Academics are constantly wasting time on admin tasks that aren't really important. And DEI plays a role here as we have to be hitting all our DEI targets etc.

    But frankly the big one is the fees. Let unis charge more and let it become a proper market.
    I never said all courses are entirely lecture based, however many courses are yet still face the same close to £10k in fees so swings and roundabouts.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture based... Which ones are those then?
    Economics if you class the quantitative side as STEM, that's what I studied my BSc in and it was predominantly lecture based.

    As far as I understand it most mathematics/statistical courses, theoretical physics, computer science, quantitative economics etc are still predominantly lecture based at an undergraduate level.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Economics is not a science. And you are missing the small group teaching element - did you never have tutorials, workshops etc?
    Have you never heard of BSc (Econ)?
    My degree is also titled as a BSc(Econ) and like Barty I am a questionable economist. Scientific rigour is certainly missing. Although in my favour (and not Barty's) I think the Laffer Curve is nonsense.
    The Laffer Curve is not nonsense, but most applications of it are.

    Too often, including by Laffer himself, the Curve is used as a justification to cut the top-rate of tax on the highest earners without any evidence as to whether or why we are past the peak for that rate . . . while ignoring significantly real higher rates of tax that exist which are far more distorting, such as our cliff edges.

    There are countless stories of people changing their behaviour at cliff edges, where tax rates approach or even exceed 100%, because they're rational. That's Laffer in action, rather than piddling about at 45p or whatever.
    So in practice the Laffer Curve doesn't work. Thank you for clearing that up.
    The Laffer Curve really just proffers the trivial points that if the government taxes at 0% it'll get no income, and if it taxes at 100% it'll get no income. The actual curve bit is just simplistic silliness that you shouldn't be basing entire economic models on.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,786
    The right is divided between those who have already f***ed up the country and those still aspiring to do so.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,998
    edited 11:47AM
    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    'New town' planned for west London brownfield land
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgnw90ve9vo

    The new town is welcome, although 25,000 homes sounds more like a new housing estate.

    But we need to do this somewhere else and not make the country even more reliant on London.

    Is calling it a 'new town' a way to tap into central government funding?
    There's something screwy somewhere, perhaps. 50k people give or take on 70 acres does not quite add up.

    That is 600-700 per acre. The Barbican is 228 per acre.

    It can be done, but it would be a surprise there.
    Kowloon Walled City had almost 50,000 people in just six acres. So this would be less than one tenth the population density.
    Not the best comparison, I suggest (I've met missionaries who worked much of their lives there - it was more or less 6 acres of continuous 14 storey).

    Do you have a modern successful development in a modern city with similar density?

    The most densely populated sq km in the UK (obvs a different measure) is perhaps about 25k people. Here is an interesting piece by someone who went looking for it:
    https://www.statsmapsnpix.com/2023/02/where-is-most-densely-populated-square.html

    Paris, New York, Barcelona have higher density square km sections.

    From the website of the developer, it seems to be more scattered than a single block - like say the National Forest in Leics compared to continuous woodland.

    Video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95lby5LLTRI
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,942
    edited 11:49AM
    Jofra Archer is in line for a first Test appearance in more than four years after being named in England's 14-man squad for next week's match against India at Edgbaston. One scenario could be for Archer to sit out the Edgbaston Test, spend the week around the England team, then be available for the third Test at Lord's the following week.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,620
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Another day another university set for strike action with belligerent language from the UcU union head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpkj18xjjo

    What a basket case our universities seems to be.

    Is there anyone who doesn't think the government should give them more money?
    Why ?

    A lot of this is down to a fall in demand for courses. Giving them more money won’t change that.
    Is it? Universities lose money on every home student they teach, because the government caps the fees at below-cost. For a while, the plan was to shimmy round that by bringing in lots of foreign students paying shedloads. For various reasons (including, but not restricted to, fear of numbers of people coming to the UK) that model has blown up.

    Suspect that puts universities in the same basket as a lot of other institutions. Yes they need more funding, yes that probably has to come from the taxpayer, no people won't be happy if the University of Theirtown closes down...

    ... but God forbid that taxes go up to pay for it.
    Do they?

    Thinking back to my own University days there were about 200 students in the lecture hall. Each student is paying close to £8000 in fees per annum.

    That cohort then is paying between them £1.6mn in fees, even if they're all home students.

    If the universities aren't able to make money on that, then maybe their costs are too high, rather than fees too low.
    Some subjects they absolutely don't get close to covering the cost. Basically, most STEM subjects. Also, students are way more demanding now in what they expect the university to provide and since the government made it a market, they all have to provide these things.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture theatre based I don't see why they can't make money, if ran efficiently. The latter part is an issue though.

    For medicine/engineering etc there's more involved but compare the class sizes in lecture theatres to the class sizes in primary/high schools and there's little reason why lecture theatre-based courses aren't making money from home students.

    Especially when students maybe have about 12-15 hours of lectures a week, not full time.
    Other than maths, no STEM subject is just lecture thearte based, they all need labs and they are very expensive to run. Also, they aren't part-time, STEM subjects often are basically in either lectures or labs closer to 20-30hrs a week.

    I definitely think in general universities aren't run very efficiently, but it is widely acknowledged that things like Chemistry, easily cost £15k / year / student to run due to all the extras that are required to be provided.

    Actually even maths now isn't just sit in the lecture theatre and write down all this crazy stuff off the blackboard. There is a lot of interest in theory of ML, application of ML to solving really hard problems, and then you need PC labs with GPU clusters.
    The cap on fees is ridiculous. The demand is there from the students but universities are suffering from inflation just as the wider economy is too. And add in the NI changes. Plus Uni academics have had the same pay deflation as medics over the same time.

    It also a nonsense as some (well one) on here seem to believe a STEM course can be entirely lecture based. What world is he/she living on?

    And lastly - the cap on fees is disadvantaging UK citizens. I'm admissions tutor for my course and I have been told that we will likely be in clearing for overseas students, but NOT for home. The uni sees overseas as more attractive because they pay more.

    I have no doubt that universities could be better run. We employ a lot of staff that never teach students or do research. Bath has a very well resourced widening access team, aiming to get students from poorer, disadvantaged backgrounds to uni. Its a laudable aim but we pour money into it for relatively few bums on seats. Academics are constantly wasting time on admin tasks that aren't really important. And DEI plays a role here as we have to be hitting all our DEI targets etc.

    But frankly the big one is the fees. Let unis charge more and let it become a proper market.
    I never said all courses are entirely lecture based, however many courses are yet still face the same close to £10k in fees so swings and roundabouts.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture based... Which ones are those then?
    Economics if you class the quantitative side as STEM, that's what I studied my BSc in and it was predominantly lecture based.

    As far as I understand it most mathematics/statistical courses, theoretical physics, computer science, quantitative economics etc are still predominantly lecture based at an undergraduate level.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Economics is not a science. And you are missing the small group teaching element - did you never have tutorials, workshops etc?
    Have you never heard of BSc (Econ)?
    My degree is also titled as a BSc(Econ) and like Barty I am a questionable economist. Scientific rigour is certainly missing. Although in my favour (and not Barty's) I think the Laffer Curve is nonsense.
    I'm not an economist so feel free to ignore this uneducated post. I think the Laffer curve exists, but its not a simple curve. And its different for different people. In fact its unbelievably complex. So the extremes of 100 % taxation or 0 % taxation are clear, but everything in the middle is impossible to really work out.

    Covid showed us that people adapt to new situations in both predictable and unpredictable ways. Some people isolated themselves before lockdowns. Others had last flings of excess. How a lump of humanity will behave in relation to a change in tax law is not simple to predict.
    When I read Economics fifty years ago I came to the conclusion it was just a subset of mass psychology. Come exam time this did not earn me the recognition I deserved.
    I don't believe that is an enormously original observation.
    If only I'd read some books I would have known that.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,294

    Jofra Archer is in line for a first Test appearance in more than four years after being named in England's 14-man squad for next week's match against India at Edgbaston.

    Aggers was suggesting it might have been better to have more county games under his belt but fingers crossed. At his best and fit he is an amazing fast bowler.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,786
    Scott_xP said:

    @ShippersUnbound

    💥 David Cameron thinks Robert Jenrick should be the next Tory leader
    💥 Tory strategists say the best they can do is to try to salvage 80 seats
    💥Kemi’s vision for Britain: “the same but less crap”
    💥Boris Johnson has a 5 point plan for his return

    https://x.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1938124492548760000

    It was all going well until that last one; the idea that the clown ever plans anything makes the rest of it not credible
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,025

    Luke Tryl of MiC toys with the idea we are close to the desperate 'let Starmer be Starmer' death knell reset

    To be fair, Jed Bartlet won the next election and was in power for seven more years after it was decided to ‘let Barlet be Bartlet’.
    Shit imaginary Democrat presidents with hideous staff don't count
    A former MP once said if I had become a SPAD I was so Josh Lyman.
    You're not that dreadful
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,942
    edited 11:51AM

    Jofra Archer is in line for a first Test appearance in more than four years after being named in England's 14-man squad for next week's match against India at Edgbaston.

    Aggers was suggesting it might have been better to have more county games under his belt but fingers crossed. At his best and fit he is an amazing fast bowler.
    Aren't they back to T20 games over the next couple of games so there isn't any more red ball for a bit. It could be they just get him training with the squad with the red ball, rather than yet more white ball cricket.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,903
    From today's Times, page 4.

    "A tube passenger who killed a commuter with one punch after he brushed past him on an escalator will serve less than five and a half years in jail before being eligible for parole. Rakeem Miles, 23, was convicted of manslaughter at Inner London crown court and sentenced to eight years in jail over the death of Samuel Winter, 28, last August."
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,025
    Mark Pritchard having a go at Badenoch for playing party politics with national security and observes 'i might get the whip withdrawn, so be it'
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,408
    Andy_JS said:

    From today's Times, page 4.

    "A tube passenger who killed a commuter with one punch after he brushed past him on an escalator will serve less than five and a half years in jail before being eligible for parole. Rakeem Miles, 23, was convicted of manslaughter at Inner London crown court and sentenced to eight years in jail over the death of Samuel Winter, 28, last August."

    Becoming eligible for parole is not the same as "will be released" of course. It merely means that he will be eligible to come up in front of the parole board.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,998
    The wheels on the bus go glug glug glug.

    (Injuries, no fatalities)

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c2k1gy4w38nt
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,511
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @eunews.social‬

    The Elon Musk effect continues as Europe’s Tesla sales drop for fifth month in a row

    Tesla's sales in Europe have plummeted for the fifth consecutive month, with new figures revealing a significant 28 per cent drop in May.

    So? What will be the story in June when they top the sales chart again?
    That Elon Musk has shut up about politics? That's the problem, not the cars.
    No, the problem is maths. They are lapping 2025 figures vs 2024 figures. 2024 includes sales of the best selling car globally in 2024. Vs no sales in 2025. Deliveries only started properly in June.

    The narrative is "nobody wants to buy a Tesla". Which is about to get demolished by like for like sales numbers in June.
    What does "They are lapping 2025 figures vs 2024 figures" mean?
    The story has been a loss of sales - you compare year on year.
    https://carexamer.com/blog/teslas-uk-car-sales-drop-over-45-in-may-whats-going-on/

    "Tesla’s UK car sales drop and took a major hit in May 2025, with a drop of over 45 percent compared to the same month last year. According to early data from various sources online suggest, Tesla registered only 1,758 cars, down sharply from 3,244 in May 2024. This decline happened even as the UK’s overall new car market grew by 4.3 percent year-on-year, with battery-electric vehicle (BEV) sales jumping by 28 percent. In short, more people are buying EVs — just not from Tesla."

    A drop of 45%. Vs the same month in 2024.

    In 2025 they were not selling the Model Y
    In 2024 they were selling the Model Y
    In 2024 the Model Y was the best selling car in the world

    My point is simple - this news agenda is deliberately misleading.
    You are also being a bit misleading; there was (and is) plenty of "legacy" Tesla Model Y stock available for sale, often at very good prices.

    So it is not the case that Model Y sales dropped to zero in May due to the existence of the new Model Y.
    I made a video where there were literally 11 cars left in UK inventory. So I do speak with facts in mind.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,094

    ...

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Another day another university set for strike action with belligerent language from the UcU union head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpkj18xjjo

    What a basket case our universities seems to be.

    Is there anyone who doesn't think the government should give them more money?
    Why ?

    A lot of this is down to a fall in demand for courses. Giving them more money won’t change that.
    Is it? Universities lose money on every home student they teach, because the government caps the fees at below-cost. For a while, the plan was to shimmy round that by bringing in lots of foreign students paying shedloads. For various reasons (including, but not restricted to, fear of numbers of people coming to the UK) that model has blown up.

    Suspect that puts universities in the same basket as a lot of other institutions. Yes they need more funding, yes that probably has to come from the taxpayer, no people won't be happy if the University of Theirtown closes down...

    ... but God forbid that taxes go up to pay for it.
    Do they?

    Thinking back to my own University days there were about 200 students in the lecture hall. Each student is paying close to £8000 in fees per annum.

    That cohort then is paying between them £1.6mn in fees, even if they're all home students.

    If the universities aren't able to make money on that, then maybe their costs are too high, rather than fees too low.
    Some subjects they absolutely don't get close to covering the cost. Basically, most STEM subjects. Also, students are way more demanding now in what they expect the university to provide and since the government made it a market, they all have to provide these things.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture theatre based I don't see why they can't make money, if ran efficiently. The latter part is an issue though.

    For medicine/engineering etc there's more involved but compare the class sizes in lecture theatres to the class sizes in primary/high schools and there's little reason why lecture theatre-based courses aren't making money from home students.

    Especially when students maybe have about 12-15 hours of lectures a week, not full time.
    Other than maths, no STEM subject is just lecture thearte based, they all need labs and they are very expensive to run. Also, they aren't part-time, STEM subjects often are basically in either lectures or labs closer to 20-30hrs a week.

    I definitely think in general universities aren't run very efficiently, but it is widely acknowledged that things like Chemistry, easily cost £15k / year / student to run due to all the extras that are required to be provided.

    Actually even maths now isn't just sit in the lecture theatre and write down all this crazy stuff off the blackboard. There is a lot of interest in theory of ML, application of ML to solving really hard problems, and then you need PC labs with GPU clusters.
    The cap on fees is ridiculous. The demand is there from the students but universities are suffering from inflation just as the wider economy is too. And add in the NI changes. Plus Uni academics have had the same pay deflation as medics over the same time.

    It also a nonsense as some (well one) on here seem to believe a STEM course can be entirely lecture based. What world is he/she living on?

    And lastly - the cap on fees is disadvantaging UK citizens. I'm admissions tutor for my course and I have been told that we will likely be in clearing for overseas students, but NOT for home. The uni sees overseas as more attractive because they pay more.

    I have no doubt that universities could be better run. We employ a lot of staff that never teach students or do research. Bath has a very well resourced widening access team, aiming to get students from poorer, disadvantaged backgrounds to uni. Its a laudable aim but we pour money into it for relatively few bums on seats. Academics are constantly wasting time on admin tasks that aren't really important. And DEI plays a role here as we have to be hitting all our DEI targets etc.

    But frankly the big one is the fees. Let unis charge more and let it become a proper market.
    I never said all courses are entirely lecture based, however many courses are yet still face the same close to £10k in fees so swings and roundabouts.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture based... Which ones are those then?
    Economics if you class the quantitative side as STEM, that's what I studied my BSc in and it was predominantly lecture based.

    As far as I understand it most mathematics/statistical courses, theoretical physics, computer science, quantitative economics etc are still predominantly lecture based at an undergraduate level.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Economics is not a science. And you are missing the small group teaching element - did you never have tutorials, workshops etc?
    Have you never heard of BSc (Econ)?
    My degree is also titled as a BSc(Econ) and like Barty I am a questionable economist. Scientific rigour is certainly missing. Although in my favour (and not Barty's) I think the Laffer Curve is nonsense.
    The Laffer Curve is not nonsense, but most applications of it are.

    Too often, including by Laffer himself, the Curve is used as a justification to cut the top-rate of tax on the highest earners without any evidence as to whether or why we are past the peak for that rate . . . while ignoring significantly real higher rates of tax that exist which are far more distorting, such as our cliff edges.

    There are countless stories of people changing their behaviour at cliff edges, where tax rates approach or even exceed 100%, because they're rational. That's Laffer in action, rather than piddling about at 45p or whatever.
    So in practice the Laffer Curve doesn't work. Thank you for clearing that up.
    The Laffer Curve really just proffers the trivial points that if the government taxes at 0% it'll get no income, and if it taxes at 100% it'll get no income. The actual curve bit is just simplistic silliness that you shouldn't be basing entire economic models on.
    Also short term v long term. If people have got kids in a good school they aren't moving because of a 60% top rate of tax.

    But some people might not move to that country in the first place, or decide to move before those kids come along. That's the danger in Scotland with our higher taxes - we won't know for some time (or at all) if they've had a negative impact on growth.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,998

    Mark Pritchard having a go at Badenoch for playing party politics with national security and observes 'i might get the whip withdrawn, so be it'

    It's a good point. IMO she should have left Defence and a couple of other areas out of the party politics.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,903
    edited 11:56AM
    IanB2 said:

    The right is divided between those who have already f***ed up the country and those still aspiring to do so.

    Are you talking about the Labour right? ie. Morgan McSweeney.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,272
    I have just been asked to write about A PARTICULAR SUBJECT

    This has happened before. Difference this time is that it’s a well known foreign magazine. They’ve noticed my flinty opinions and are so keen on them they are happy for me to write in English and then they will translate into foreign

    Hah. I’m becoming an international expert!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,283
    Eabhal said:

    ...

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Another day another university set for strike action with belligerent language from the UcU union head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpkj18xjjo

    What a basket case our universities seems to be.

    Is there anyone who doesn't think the government should give them more money?
    Why ?

    A lot of this is down to a fall in demand for courses. Giving them more money won’t change that.
    Is it? Universities lose money on every home student they teach, because the government caps the fees at below-cost. For a while, the plan was to shimmy round that by bringing in lots of foreign students paying shedloads. For various reasons (including, but not restricted to, fear of numbers of people coming to the UK) that model has blown up.

    Suspect that puts universities in the same basket as a lot of other institutions. Yes they need more funding, yes that probably has to come from the taxpayer, no people won't be happy if the University of Theirtown closes down...

    ... but God forbid that taxes go up to pay for it.
    Do they?

    Thinking back to my own University days there were about 200 students in the lecture hall. Each student is paying close to £8000 in fees per annum.

    That cohort then is paying between them £1.6mn in fees, even if they're all home students.

    If the universities aren't able to make money on that, then maybe their costs are too high, rather than fees too low.
    Some subjects they absolutely don't get close to covering the cost. Basically, most STEM subjects. Also, students are way more demanding now in what they expect the university to provide and since the government made it a market, they all have to provide these things.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture theatre based I don't see why they can't make money, if ran efficiently. The latter part is an issue though.

    For medicine/engineering etc there's more involved but compare the class sizes in lecture theatres to the class sizes in primary/high schools and there's little reason why lecture theatre-based courses aren't making money from home students.

    Especially when students maybe have about 12-15 hours of lectures a week, not full time.
    Other than maths, no STEM subject is just lecture thearte based, they all need labs and they are very expensive to run. Also, they aren't part-time, STEM subjects often are basically in either lectures or labs closer to 20-30hrs a week.

    I definitely think in general universities aren't run very efficiently, but it is widely acknowledged that things like Chemistry, easily cost £15k / year / student to run due to all the extras that are required to be provided.

    Actually even maths now isn't just sit in the lecture theatre and write down all this crazy stuff off the blackboard. There is a lot of interest in theory of ML, application of ML to solving really hard problems, and then you need PC labs with GPU clusters.
    The cap on fees is ridiculous. The demand is there from the students but universities are suffering from inflation just as the wider economy is too. And add in the NI changes. Plus Uni academics have had the same pay deflation as medics over the same time.

    It also a nonsense as some (well one) on here seem to believe a STEM course can be entirely lecture based. What world is he/she living on?

    And lastly - the cap on fees is disadvantaging UK citizens. I'm admissions tutor for my course and I have been told that we will likely be in clearing for overseas students, but NOT for home. The uni sees overseas as more attractive because they pay more.

    I have no doubt that universities could be better run. We employ a lot of staff that never teach students or do research. Bath has a very well resourced widening access team, aiming to get students from poorer, disadvantaged backgrounds to uni. Its a laudable aim but we pour money into it for relatively few bums on seats. Academics are constantly wasting time on admin tasks that aren't really important. And DEI plays a role here as we have to be hitting all our DEI targets etc.

    But frankly the big one is the fees. Let unis charge more and let it become a proper market.
    I never said all courses are entirely lecture based, however many courses are yet still face the same close to £10k in fees so swings and roundabouts.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture based... Which ones are those then?
    Economics if you class the quantitative side as STEM, that's what I studied my BSc in and it was predominantly lecture based.

    As far as I understand it most mathematics/statistical courses, theoretical physics, computer science, quantitative economics etc are still predominantly lecture based at an undergraduate level.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Economics is not a science. And you are missing the small group teaching element - did you never have tutorials, workshops etc?
    Have you never heard of BSc (Econ)?
    My degree is also titled as a BSc(Econ) and like Barty I am a questionable economist. Scientific rigour is certainly missing. Although in my favour (and not Barty's) I think the Laffer Curve is nonsense.
    The Laffer Curve is not nonsense, but most applications of it are.

    Too often, including by Laffer himself, the Curve is used as a justification to cut the top-rate of tax on the highest earners without any evidence as to whether or why we are past the peak for that rate . . . while ignoring significantly real higher rates of tax that exist which are far more distorting, such as our cliff edges.

    There are countless stories of people changing their behaviour at cliff edges, where tax rates approach or even exceed 100%, because they're rational. That's Laffer in action, rather than piddling about at 45p or whatever.
    So in practice the Laffer Curve doesn't work. Thank you for clearing that up.
    The Laffer Curve really just proffers the trivial points that if the government taxes at 0% it'll get no income, and if it taxes at 100% it'll get no income. The actual curve bit is just simplistic silliness that you shouldn't be basing entire economic models on.
    Also short term v long term. If people have got kids in a good school they aren't moving because of a 60% top rate of tax.

    But some people might not move to that country in the first place, or decide to move before those kids come along. That's the danger in Scotland with our higher taxes - we won't know for some time (or at all) if they've had a negative impact on growth.
    Between 0% and 100% there is a complex function. Claiming that since there isn’t a single, simple curve, Lagfer was wrong and you can tax away as you like is equally silly.

    Anecdotally, 50% tax on income seems to be a mental milestone for quite a few - that’s where it starts altering behaviour, for them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,272
    IanB2 said:

    Mr dog makes it to his eighteenth country (Copenhagen for scale)

    Very nice. There are some great bars on that canal. Once sat there with my then wife and we got agreeably drunk of a sunny afternoon. Copenhagen is fun
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,408
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    'New town' planned for west London brownfield land
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgnw90ve9vo

    The new town is welcome, although 25,000 homes sounds more like a new housing estate.

    But we need to do this somewhere else and not make the country even more reliant on London.

    Is calling it a 'new town' a way to tap into central government funding?
    There's something screwy somewhere, perhaps. 50k people give or take on 70 acres does not quite add up.

    That is 600-700 per acre. The Barbican is 228 per acre.

    It can be done, but it would be a surprise there.
    Kowloon Walled City had almost 50,000 people in just six acres. So this would be less than one tenth the population density.
    Not the best comparison, I suggest (I've met missionaries who worked much of their lives there - it was more or less 6 acres of continuous 14 storey).

    Do you have a modern successful development in a modern city with similar density?

    The most densely populated sq km in the UK (obvs a different measure) is perhaps about 25k people. Here is an interesting piece by someone who went looking for it:
    https://www.statsmapsnpix.com/2023/02/where-is-most-densely-populated-square.html

    Paris, New York, Barcelona have higher density square km sections.

    From the website of the developer, it seems to be more scattered than a single block - like say the National Forest in Leics compared to continuous woodland.

    Video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95lby5LLTRI
    It is notable that his 24,000 people in a single square kilometer also contains a lot of green spaces.

    Basically: you can fit an awful lot of people in a very small area.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,903
    dixiedean said:

    Here's an idea.
    Instead of simply claiming mental health conditions aren't real, how about exerting some effort to explain why the rates are soaring? And make plans to treat and prevent them?
    Just a thought.

    It's likely rates are mostly soaring because diagnosis is increasing. (I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,786
    edited 12:04PM
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Mr dog makes it to his eighteenth country (Copenhagen for scale)

    Very nice. There are some great bars on that canal. Once sat there with my then wife and we got agreeably drunk of a sunny afternoon. Copenhagen is fun
    A tempting suggestion, but the afternoon ferry to Norway awaits shortly

    So far every border we have crossed has been manned, with checks on the entered side. It seems the days of unmanned borders is coming to an end
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,461

    Luke Tryl of MiC toys with the idea we are close to the desperate 'let Starmer be Starmer' death knell reset

    To be fair, Jed Bartlet won the next election and was in power for seven more years after it was decided to ‘let Barlet be Bartlet’.
    Shit imaginary Democrat presidents with hideous staff don't count
    A former MP once said if I had become a SPAD I was so Josh Lyman.
    You're not that dreadful
    A former colleague once observed that ‘I was very good at drowning kittens.’

    I can do some brutal stuff professionally, I was once compared to a psychopath when Mark Reckless defected.

    ‘I am not supposed to swear but the man’s a [the word that gets you banned on PB] and he deserved a red hot poker up his arse.’
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,323
    Eabhal said:

    ...

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Another day another university set for strike action with belligerent language from the UcU union head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpkj18xjjo

    What a basket case our universities seems to be.

    Is there anyone who doesn't think the government should give them more money?
    Why ?

    A lot of this is down to a fall in demand for courses. Giving them more money won’t change that.
    Is it? Universities lose money on every home student they teach, because the government caps the fees at below-cost. For a while, the plan was to shimmy round that by bringing in lots of foreign students paying shedloads. For various reasons (including, but not restricted to, fear of numbers of people coming to the UK) that model has blown up.

    Suspect that puts universities in the same basket as a lot of other institutions. Yes they need more funding, yes that probably has to come from the taxpayer, no people won't be happy if the University of Theirtown closes down...

    ... but God forbid that taxes go up to pay for it.
    Do they?

    Thinking back to my own University days there were about 200 students in the lecture hall. Each student is paying close to £8000 in fees per annum.

    That cohort then is paying between them £1.6mn in fees, even if they're all home students.

    If the universities aren't able to make money on that, then maybe their costs are too high, rather than fees too low.
    Some subjects they absolutely don't get close to covering the cost. Basically, most STEM subjects. Also, students are way more demanding now in what they expect the university to provide and since the government made it a market, they all have to provide these things.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture theatre based I don't see why they can't make money, if ran efficiently. The latter part is an issue though.

    For medicine/engineering etc there's more involved but compare the class sizes in lecture theatres to the class sizes in primary/high schools and there's little reason why lecture theatre-based courses aren't making money from home students.

    Especially when students maybe have about 12-15 hours of lectures a week, not full time.
    Other than maths, no STEM subject is just lecture thearte based, they all need labs and they are very expensive to run. Also, they aren't part-time, STEM subjects often are basically in either lectures or labs closer to 20-30hrs a week.

    I definitely think in general universities aren't run very efficiently, but it is widely acknowledged that things like Chemistry, easily cost £15k / year / student to run due to all the extras that are required to be provided.

    Actually even maths now isn't just sit in the lecture theatre and write down all this crazy stuff off the blackboard. There is a lot of interest in theory of ML, application of ML to solving really hard problems, and then you need PC labs with GPU clusters.
    The cap on fees is ridiculous. The demand is there from the students but universities are suffering from inflation just as the wider economy is too. And add in the NI changes. Plus Uni academics have had the same pay deflation as medics over the same time.

    It also a nonsense as some (well one) on here seem to believe a STEM course can be entirely lecture based. What world is he/she living on?

    And lastly - the cap on fees is disadvantaging UK citizens. I'm admissions tutor for my course and I have been told that we will likely be in clearing for overseas students, but NOT for home. The uni sees overseas as more attractive because they pay more.

    I have no doubt that universities could be better run. We employ a lot of staff that never teach students or do research. Bath has a very well resourced widening access team, aiming to get students from poorer, disadvantaged backgrounds to uni. Its a laudable aim but we pour money into it for relatively few bums on seats. Academics are constantly wasting time on admin tasks that aren't really important. And DEI plays a role here as we have to be hitting all our DEI targets etc.

    But frankly the big one is the fees. Let unis charge more and let it become a proper market.
    I never said all courses are entirely lecture based, however many courses are yet still face the same close to £10k in fees so swings and roundabouts.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture based... Which ones are those then?
    Economics if you class the quantitative side as STEM, that's what I studied my BSc in and it was predominantly lecture based.

    As far as I understand it most mathematics/statistical courses, theoretical physics, computer science, quantitative economics etc are still predominantly lecture based at an undergraduate level.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Economics is not a science. And you are missing the small group teaching element - did you never have tutorials, workshops etc?
    Have you never heard of BSc (Econ)?
    My degree is also titled as a BSc(Econ) and like Barty I am a questionable economist. Scientific rigour is certainly missing. Although in my favour (and not Barty's) I think the Laffer Curve is nonsense.
    The Laffer Curve is not nonsense, but most applications of it are.

    Too often, including by Laffer himself, the Curve is used as a justification to cut the top-rate of tax on the highest earners without any evidence as to whether or why we are past the peak for that rate . . . while ignoring significantly real higher rates of tax that exist which are far more distorting, such as our cliff edges.

    There are countless stories of people changing their behaviour at cliff edges, where tax rates approach or even exceed 100%, because they're rational. That's Laffer in action, rather than piddling about at 45p or whatever.
    So in practice the Laffer Curve doesn't work. Thank you for clearing that up.
    The Laffer Curve really just proffers the trivial points that if the government taxes at 0% it'll get no income, and if it taxes at 100% it'll get no income. The actual curve bit is just simplistic silliness that you shouldn't be basing entire economic models on.
    Also short term v long term. If people have got kids in a good school they aren't moving because of a 60% top rate of tax.

    But some people might not move to that country in the first place, or decide to move before those kids come along. That's the danger in Scotland with our higher taxes - we won't know for some time (or at all) if they've had a negative impact on growth.
    Weirdly enough, the places where these people leave to when the 60% top rate comes in also have top schools. Amazingly these places, by having nice lifestyles, low taxes and being attractive to the wealthy are able to attract very good teachers and educational administrators as well as the rich parents of their young charges.

    So the kids of the wealthy who leave who aren’t already boarding start boarding or go to one of the myriad of very good international schools in Geneva, Zurich, Dubai, Singapore etc.

    The idea that kids being at a good day school in London or elsewhere is a huge restraint compared to the push from massive taxation is weak.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,903
    Leon said:

    I have just been asked to write about A PARTICULAR SUBJECT

    This has happened before. Difference this time is that it’s a well known foreign magazine. They’ve noticed my flinty opinions and are so keen on them they are happy for me to write in English and then they will translate into foreign

    Hah. I’m becoming an international expert!

    Have you ever considered writing a book about what Bangkok was like in the 80s and 90s?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,461
    Leon said:

    I have just been asked to write about A PARTICULAR SUBJECT

    This has happened before. Difference this time is that it’s a well known foreign magazine. They’ve noticed my flinty opinions and are so keen on them they are happy for me to write in English and then they will translate into foreign

    Hah. I’m becoming an international expert!

    Is the subject about hookers and drugs?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,900

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Another day another university set for strike action with belligerent language from the UcU union head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpkj18xjjo

    What a basket case our universities seems to be.

    Is there anyone who doesn't think the government should give them more money?
    Why ?

    A lot of this is down to a fall in demand for courses. Giving them more money won’t change that.
    Is it? Universities lose money on every home student they teach, because the government caps the fees at below-cost. For a while, the plan was to shimmy round that by bringing in lots of foreign students paying shedloads. For various reasons (including, but not restricted to, fear of numbers of people coming to the UK) that model has blown up.

    Suspect that puts universities in the same basket as a lot of other institutions. Yes they need more funding, yes that probably has to come from the taxpayer, no people won't be happy if the University of Theirtown closes down...

    ... but God forbid that taxes go up to pay for it.
    Do they?

    Thinking back to my own University days there were about 200 students in the lecture hall. Each student is paying close to £8000 in fees per annum.

    That cohort then is paying between them £1.6mn in fees, even if they're all home students.

    If the universities aren't able to make money on that, then maybe their costs are too high, rather than fees too low.
    Some subjects they absolutely don't get close to covering the cost. Basically, most STEM subjects. Also, students are way more demanding now in what they expect the university to provide and since the government made it a market, they all have to provide these things.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture theatre based I don't see why they can't make money, if ran efficiently. The latter part is an issue though.

    For medicine/engineering etc there's more involved but compare the class sizes in lecture theatres to the class sizes in primary/high schools and there's little reason why lecture theatre-based courses aren't making money from home students.

    Especially when students maybe have about 12-15 hours of lectures a week, not full time.
    Other than maths, no STEM subject is just lecture thearte based, they all need labs and they are very expensive to run. Also, they aren't part-time, STEM subjects often are basically in either lectures or labs closer to 20-30hrs a week.

    I definitely think in general universities aren't run very efficiently, but it is widely acknowledged that things like Chemistry, easily cost £15k / year / student to run due to all the extras that are required to be provided.

    Actually even maths now isn't just sit in the lecture theatre and write down all this crazy stuff off the blackboard. There is a lot of interest in theory of ML, application of ML to solving really hard problems, and then you need PC labs with GPU clusters.
    The cap on fees is ridiculous. The demand is there from the students but universities are suffering from inflation just as the wider economy is too. And add in the NI changes. Plus Uni academics have had the same pay deflation as medics over the same time.

    It also a nonsense as some (well one) on here seem to believe a STEM course can be entirely lecture based. What world is he/she living on?

    And lastly - the cap on fees is disadvantaging UK citizens. I'm admissions tutor for my course and I have been told that we will likely be in clearing for overseas students, but NOT for home. The uni sees overseas as more attractive because they pay more.

    I have no doubt that universities could be better run. We employ a lot of staff that never teach students or do research. Bath has a very well resourced widening access team, aiming to get students from poorer, disadvantaged backgrounds to uni. Its a laudable aim but we pour money into it for relatively few bums on seats. Academics are constantly wasting time on admin tasks that aren't really important. And DEI plays a role here as we have to be hitting all our DEI targets etc.

    But frankly the big one is the fees. Let unis charge more and let it become a proper market.
    I never said all courses are entirely lecture based, however many courses are yet still face the same close to £10k in fees so swings and roundabouts.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture based... Which ones are those then?
    Economics if you class the quantitative side as STEM, that's what I studied my BSc in and it was predominantly lecture based.

    As far as I understand it most mathematics/statistical courses, theoretical physics, computer science, quantitative economics etc are still predominantly lecture based at an undergraduate level.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Economics is not a science. And you are missing the small group teaching element - did you never have tutorials, workshops etc?
    Economics can be a BSc or a BA depending upon the course. For my course it depended upon which modules you took, you needed enough mathematical ones, which I preferred anyway, to get awarded the BSc.

    Yes there were tutorials but that was only a few hours per week and led by postgrad students.
    ... who still need paying and supervising.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,283
    boulay said:

    Eabhal said:

    ...

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Another day another university set for strike action with belligerent language from the UcU union head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpkj18xjjo

    What a basket case our universities seems to be.

    Is there anyone who doesn't think the government should give them more money?
    Why ?

    A lot of this is down to a fall in demand for courses. Giving them more money won’t change that.
    Is it? Universities lose money on every home student they teach, because the government caps the fees at below-cost. For a while, the plan was to shimmy round that by bringing in lots of foreign students paying shedloads. For various reasons (including, but not restricted to, fear of numbers of people coming to the UK) that model has blown up.

    Suspect that puts universities in the same basket as a lot of other institutions. Yes they need more funding, yes that probably has to come from the taxpayer, no people won't be happy if the University of Theirtown closes down...

    ... but God forbid that taxes go up to pay for it.
    Do they?

    Thinking back to my own University days there were about 200 students in the lecture hall. Each student is paying close to £8000 in fees per annum.

    That cohort then is paying between them £1.6mn in fees, even if they're all home students.

    If the universities aren't able to make money on that, then maybe their costs are too high, rather than fees too low.
    Some subjects they absolutely don't get close to covering the cost. Basically, most STEM subjects. Also, students are way more demanding now in what they expect the university to provide and since the government made it a market, they all have to provide these things.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture theatre based I don't see why they can't make money, if ran efficiently. The latter part is an issue though.

    For medicine/engineering etc there's more involved but compare the class sizes in lecture theatres to the class sizes in primary/high schools and there's little reason why lecture theatre-based courses aren't making money from home students.

    Especially when students maybe have about 12-15 hours of lectures a week, not full time.
    Other than maths, no STEM subject is just lecture thearte based, they all need labs and they are very expensive to run. Also, they aren't part-time, STEM subjects often are basically in either lectures or labs closer to 20-30hrs a week.

    I definitely think in general universities aren't run very efficiently, but it is widely acknowledged that things like Chemistry, easily cost £15k / year / student to run due to all the extras that are required to be provided.

    Actually even maths now isn't just sit in the lecture theatre and write down all this crazy stuff off the blackboard. There is a lot of interest in theory of ML, application of ML to solving really hard problems, and then you need PC labs with GPU clusters.
    The cap on fees is ridiculous. The demand is there from the students but universities are suffering from inflation just as the wider economy is too. And add in the NI changes. Plus Uni academics have had the same pay deflation as medics over the same time.

    It also a nonsense as some (well one) on here seem to believe a STEM course can be entirely lecture based. What world is he/she living on?

    And lastly - the cap on fees is disadvantaging UK citizens. I'm admissions tutor for my course and I have been told that we will likely be in clearing for overseas students, but NOT for home. The uni sees overseas as more attractive because they pay more.

    I have no doubt that universities could be better run. We employ a lot of staff that never teach students or do research. Bath has a very well resourced widening access team, aiming to get students from poorer, disadvantaged backgrounds to uni. Its a laudable aim but we pour money into it for relatively few bums on seats. Academics are constantly wasting time on admin tasks that aren't really important. And DEI plays a role here as we have to be hitting all our DEI targets etc.

    But frankly the big one is the fees. Let unis charge more and let it become a proper market.
    I never said all courses are entirely lecture based, however many courses are yet still face the same close to £10k in fees so swings and roundabouts.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture based... Which ones are those then?
    Economics if you class the quantitative side as STEM, that's what I studied my BSc in and it was predominantly lecture based.

    As far as I understand it most mathematics/statistical courses, theoretical physics, computer science, quantitative economics etc are still predominantly lecture based at an undergraduate level.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Economics is not a science. And you are missing the small group teaching element - did you never have tutorials, workshops etc?
    Have you never heard of BSc (Econ)?
    My degree is also titled as a BSc(Econ) and like Barty I am a questionable economist. Scientific rigour is certainly missing. Although in my favour (and not Barty's) I think the Laffer Curve is nonsense.
    The Laffer Curve is not nonsense, but most applications of it are.

    Too often, including by Laffer himself, the Curve is used as a justification to cut the top-rate of tax on the highest earners without any evidence as to whether or why we are past the peak for that rate . . . while ignoring significantly real higher rates of tax that exist which are far more distorting, such as our cliff edges.

    There are countless stories of people changing their behaviour at cliff edges, where tax rates approach or even exceed 100%, because they're rational. That's Laffer in action, rather than piddling about at 45p or whatever.
    So in practice the Laffer Curve doesn't work. Thank you for clearing that up.
    The Laffer Curve really just proffers the trivial points that if the government taxes at 0% it'll get no income, and if it taxes at 100% it'll get no income. The actual curve bit is just simplistic silliness that you shouldn't be basing entire economic models on.
    Also short term v long term. If people have got kids in a good school they aren't moving because of a 60% top rate of tax.

    But some people might not move to that country in the first place, or decide to move before those kids come along. That's the danger in Scotland with our higher taxes - we won't know for some time (or at all) if they've had a negative impact on growth.
    Weirdly enough, the places where these people leave to when the 60% top rate comes in also have top schools. Amazingly these places, by having nice lifestyles, low taxes and being attractive to the wealthy are able to attract very good teachers and educational administrators as well as the rich parents of their young charges.

    So the kids of the wealthy who leave who aren’t already boarding start boarding or go to one of the myriad of very good international schools in Geneva, Zurich, Dubai, Singapore etc.

    The idea that kids being at a good day school in London or elsewhere is a huge restraint compared to the push from massive taxation is weak.

    Changing schools at other than the traditional break points is definitely discouraging to moving around.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,272

    Leon said:

    I have just been asked to write about A PARTICULAR SUBJECT

    This has happened before. Difference this time is that it’s a well known foreign magazine. They’ve noticed my flinty opinions and are so keen on them they are happy for me to write in English and then they will translate into foreign

    Hah. I’m becoming an international expert!

    Is the subject about hookers and drugs?
    No, but I could indeed write with even greater authority on Hookers and Drugs
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,094
    edited 12:09PM
    boulay said:

    Eabhal said:

    ...

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Another day another university set for strike action with belligerent language from the UcU union head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpkj18xjjo

    What a basket case our universities seems to be.

    Is there anyone who doesn't think the government should give them more money?
    Why ?

    A lot of this is down to a fall in demand for courses. Giving them more money won’t change that.
    Is it? Universities lose money on every home student they teach, because the government caps the fees at below-cost. For a while, the plan was to shimmy round that by bringing in lots of foreign students paying shedloads. For various reasons (including, but not restricted to, fear of numbers of people coming to the UK) that model has blown up.

    Suspect that puts universities in the same basket as a lot of other institutions. Yes they need more funding, yes that probably has to come from the taxpayer, no people won't be happy if the University of Theirtown closes down...

    ... but God forbid that taxes go up to pay for it.
    Do they?

    Thinking back to my own University days there were about 200 students in the lecture hall. Each student is paying close to £8000 in fees per annum.

    That cohort then is paying between them £1.6mn in fees, even if they're all home students.

    If the universities aren't able to make money on that, then maybe their costs are too high, rather than fees too low.
    Some subjects they absolutely don't get close to covering the cost. Basically, most STEM subjects. Also, students are way more demanding now in what they expect the university to provide and since the government made it a market, they all have to provide these things.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture theatre based I don't see why they can't make money, if ran efficiently. The latter part is an issue though.

    For medicine/engineering etc there's more involved but compare the class sizes in lecture theatres to the class sizes in primary/high schools and there's little reason why lecture theatre-based courses aren't making money from home students.

    Especially when students maybe have about 12-15 hours of lectures a week, not full time.
    Other than maths, no STEM subject is just lecture thearte based, they all need labs and they are very expensive to run. Also, they aren't part-time, STEM subjects often are basically in either lectures or labs closer to 20-30hrs a week.

    I definitely think in general universities aren't run very efficiently, but it is widely acknowledged that things like Chemistry, easily cost £15k / year / student to run due to all the extras that are required to be provided.

    Actually even maths now isn't just sit in the lecture theatre and write down all this crazy stuff off the blackboard. There is a lot of interest in theory of ML, application of ML to solving really hard problems, and then you need PC labs with GPU clusters.
    The cap on fees is ridiculous. The demand is there from the students but universities are suffering from inflation just as the wider economy is too. And add in the NI changes. Plus Uni academics have had the same pay deflation as medics over the same time.

    It also a nonsense as some (well one) on here seem to believe a STEM course can be entirely lecture based. What world is he/she living on?

    And lastly - the cap on fees is disadvantaging UK citizens. I'm admissions tutor for my course and I have been told that we will likely be in clearing for overseas students, but NOT for home. The uni sees overseas as more attractive because they pay more.

    I have no doubt that universities could be better run. We employ a lot of staff that never teach students or do research. Bath has a very well resourced widening access team, aiming to get students from poorer, disadvantaged backgrounds to uni. Its a laudable aim but we pour money into it for relatively few bums on seats. Academics are constantly wasting time on admin tasks that aren't really important. And DEI plays a role here as we have to be hitting all our DEI targets etc.

    But frankly the big one is the fees. Let unis charge more and let it become a proper market.
    I never said all courses are entirely lecture based, however many courses are yet still face the same close to £10k in fees so swings and roundabouts.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture based... Which ones are those then?
    Economics if you class the quantitative side as STEM, that's what I studied my BSc in and it was predominantly lecture based.

    As far as I understand it most mathematics/statistical courses, theoretical physics, computer science, quantitative economics etc are still predominantly lecture based at an undergraduate level.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Economics is not a science. And you are missing the small group teaching element - did you never have tutorials, workshops etc?
    Have you never heard of BSc (Econ)?
    My degree is also titled as a BSc(Econ) and like Barty I am a questionable economist. Scientific rigour is certainly missing. Although in my favour (and not Barty's) I think the Laffer Curve is nonsense.
    The Laffer Curve is not nonsense, but most applications of it are.

    Too often, including by Laffer himself, the Curve is used as a justification to cut the top-rate of tax on the highest earners without any evidence as to whether or why we are past the peak for that rate . . . while ignoring significantly real higher rates of tax that exist which are far more distorting, such as our cliff edges.

    There are countless stories of people changing their behaviour at cliff edges, where tax rates approach or even exceed 100%, because they're rational. That's Laffer in action, rather than piddling about at 45p or whatever.
    So in practice the Laffer Curve doesn't work. Thank you for clearing that up.
    The Laffer Curve really just proffers the trivial points that if the government taxes at 0% it'll get no income, and if it taxes at 100% it'll get no income. The actual curve bit is just simplistic silliness that you shouldn't be basing entire economic models on.
    Also short term v long term. If people have got kids in a good school they aren't moving because of a 60% top rate of tax.

    But some people might not move to that country in the first place, or decide to move before those kids come along. That's the danger in Scotland with our higher taxes - we won't know for some time (or at all) if they've had a negative impact on growth.
    Weirdly enough, the places where these people leave to when the 60% top rate comes in also have top schools. Amazingly these places, by having nice lifestyles, low taxes and being attractive to the wealthy are able to attract very good teachers and educational administrators as well as the rich parents of their young charges.

    So the kids of the wealthy who leave who aren’t already boarding start boarding or go to one of the myriad of very good international schools in Geneva, Zurich, Dubai, Singapore etc.

    The idea that kids being at a good day school in London or elsewhere is a huge restraint compared to the push from massive taxation is weak.

    I meant if the kids are already in a school, already in a family home etc etc
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,408

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @eunews.social‬

    The Elon Musk effect continues as Europe’s Tesla sales drop for fifth month in a row

    Tesla's sales in Europe have plummeted for the fifth consecutive month, with new figures revealing a significant 28 per cent drop in May.

    So? What will be the story in June when they top the sales chart again?
    That Elon Musk has shut up about politics? That's the problem, not the cars.
    No, the problem is maths. They are lapping 2025 figures vs 2024 figures. 2024 includes sales of the best selling car globally in 2024. Vs no sales in 2025. Deliveries only started properly in June.

    The narrative is "nobody wants to buy a Tesla". Which is about to get demolished by like for like sales numbers in June.
    What does "They are lapping 2025 figures vs 2024 figures" mean?
    The story has been a loss of sales - you compare year on year.
    https://carexamer.com/blog/teslas-uk-car-sales-drop-over-45-in-may-whats-going-on/

    "Tesla’s UK car sales drop and took a major hit in May 2025, with a drop of over 45 percent compared to the same month last year. According to early data from various sources online suggest, Tesla registered only 1,758 cars, down sharply from 3,244 in May 2024. This decline happened even as the UK’s overall new car market grew by 4.3 percent year-on-year, with battery-electric vehicle (BEV) sales jumping by 28 percent. In short, more people are buying EVs — just not from Tesla."

    A drop of 45%. Vs the same month in 2024.

    In 2025 they were not selling the Model Y
    In 2024 they were selling the Model Y
    In 2024 the Model Y was the best selling car in the world

    My point is simple - this news agenda is deliberately misleading.
    You are also being a bit misleading; there was (and is) plenty of "legacy" Tesla Model Y stock available for sale, often at very good prices.

    So it is not the case that Model Y sales dropped to zero in May due to the existence of the new Model Y.
    I made a video where there were literally 11 cars left in UK inventory. So I do speak with facts in mind.
    I found these in 30 seconds on Tesla's UK website. All legacy model Ys. All available new for delivery now.

    And these are hardly the only legacy Model Y's on there. They're just first ones on the first few pages.

    And as it's currently the end of June, so I think we can reasonably conclude they sold some last month.

    ---

    https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/my/order/XP7Y246_4a106cc917dfdaa8c3eff76103c2161f?titleStatus=new&redirect=no#overview

    https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/my/order/LRWY260_883030bedfb59a92e5ebc52a457d6c9f?titleStatus=new&redirect=no#overview

    https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/my/order/XP7Y258_eb439ee023aa3b3d5dc00ff4f5025c45?titleStatus=new&redirect=no#overview

    https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/my/order/XP7Y258_eb439ee023aa3b3d5dc00ff4f5025c45?titleStatus=new&redirect=no#overview

    https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/my/order/XP7Y246_ff09605203ac6327303cf5d8f99ac282?titleStatus=new&redirect=no#overview

    https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/my/order/XP7Y246_59347a280905f45101a296502ef7de10?titleStatus=new&redirect=no#overview

    https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/my/order/LRWY282_c820cd3cfce3ec84607e8a89a9491ce2?titleStatus=new&redirect=no#overview

    https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/my/order/XP7Y282_50a3eace133514acc06837230e7dd77d?titleStatus=new&redirect=no#overview

    https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/my/order/XP7Y330_01316b431b4ace92da9b9d57cec78597?titleStatus=new&redirect=no#overview

    https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/my/order/XP7Y246_496e1bbe452c97249961da07b2908d5e?titleStatus=new&redirect=no#overview

    https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/my/order/XP7Y294_c9e4d9ee302f1ede057088f43cba59ed?titleStatus=new&redirect=no#overview

    https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/my/order/XP7Y258_08414c457b7f6b96497bfa4bf269bcb4?titleStatus=new&redirect=no#overview

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,230
    Andy_JS said:

    From today's Times, page 4.

    "A tube passenger who killed a commuter with one punch after he brushed past him on an escalator will serve less than five and a half years in jail before being eligible for parole. Rakeem Miles, 23, was convicted of manslaughter at Inner London crown court and sentenced to eight years in jail over the death of Samuel Winter, 28, last August."

    Still no clue as to his housing status.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,900
    dixiedean said:

    Here's an idea.
    Instead of simply claiming mental health conditions aren't real, how about exerting some effort to explain why the rates are soaring? And make plans to treat and prevent them?
    Just a thought.

    We could nationally commission some effective mental health apps for not much money and a lot of impact... but we don't.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,835

    Scott_xP said:

    @eunews.social‬

    The Elon Musk effect continues as Europe’s Tesla sales drop for fifth month in a row

    Tesla's sales in Europe have plummeted for the fifth consecutive month, with new figures revealing a significant 28 per cent drop in May.

    So? What will be the story in June when they top the sales chart again?
    That Elon Musk has shut up about politics? That's the problem, not the cars.
    No, the problem is maths. They are lapping 2025 figures vs 2024 figures. 2024 includes sales of the best selling car globally in 2024. Vs no sales in 2025. Deliveries only started properly in June.

    The narrative is "nobody wants to buy a Tesla". Which is about to get demolished by like for like sales numbers in June.
    Have you noticed any change in comments to your Tesla Youtube channel since Musk split from Trump?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,659

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Another day another university set for strike action with belligerent language from the UcU union head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpkj18xjjo

    What a basket case our universities seems to be.

    Is there anyone who doesn't think the government should give them more money?
    Why ?

    A lot of this is down to a fall in demand for courses. Giving them more money won’t change that.
    Is it? Universities lose money on every home student they teach, because the government caps the fees at below-cost. For a while, the plan was to shimmy round that by bringing in lots of foreign students paying shedloads. For various reasons (including, but not restricted to, fear of numbers of people coming to the UK) that model has blown up.

    Suspect that puts universities in the same basket as a lot of other institutions. Yes they need more funding, yes that probably has to come from the taxpayer, no people won't be happy if the University of Theirtown closes down...

    ... but God forbid that taxes go up to pay for it.
    Do they?

    Thinking back to my own University days there were about 200 students in the lecture hall. Each student is paying close to £8000 in fees per annum.

    That cohort then is paying between them £1.6mn in fees, even if they're all home students.

    If the universities aren't able to make money on that, then maybe their costs are too high, rather than fees too low.
    Some subjects they absolutely don't get close to covering the cost. Basically, most STEM subjects. Also, students are way more demanding now in what they expect the university to provide and since the government made it a market, they all have to provide these things.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture theatre based I don't see why they can't make money, if ran efficiently. The latter part is an issue though.

    For medicine/engineering etc there's more involved but compare the class sizes in lecture theatres to the class sizes in primary/high schools and there's little reason why lecture theatre-based courses aren't making money from home students.

    Especially when students maybe have about 12-15 hours of lectures a week, not full time.
    Other than maths, no STEM subject is just lecture thearte based, they all need labs and they are very expensive to run. Also, they aren't part-time, STEM subjects often are basically in either lectures or labs closer to 20-30hrs a week.

    I definitely think in general universities aren't run very efficiently, but it is widely acknowledged that things like Chemistry, easily cost £15k / year / student to run due to all the extras that are required to be provided.

    Actually even maths now isn't just sit in the lecture theatre and write down all this crazy stuff off the blackboard. There is a lot of interest in theory of ML, application of ML to solving really hard problems, and then you need PC labs with GPU clusters.
    The cap on fees is ridiculous. The demand is there from the students but universities are suffering from inflation just as the wider economy is too. And add in the NI changes. Plus Uni academics have had the same pay deflation as medics over the same time.

    It also a nonsense as some (well one) on here seem to believe a STEM course can be entirely lecture based. What world is he/she living on?

    And lastly - the cap on fees is disadvantaging UK citizens. I'm admissions tutor for my course and I have been told that we will likely be in clearing for overseas students, but NOT for home. The uni sees overseas as more attractive because they pay more.

    I have no doubt that universities could be better run. We employ a lot of staff that never teach students or do research. Bath has a very well resourced widening access team, aiming to get students from poorer, disadvantaged backgrounds to uni. Its a laudable aim but we pour money into it for relatively few bums on seats. Academics are constantly wasting time on admin tasks that aren't really important. And DEI plays a role here as we have to be hitting all our DEI targets etc.

    But frankly the big one is the fees. Let unis charge more and let it become a proper market.
    I never said all courses are entirely lecture based, however many courses are yet still face the same close to £10k in fees so swings and roundabouts.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture based... Which ones are those then?
    Economics if you class the quantitative side as STEM, that's what I studied my BSc in and it was predominantly lecture based.

    As far as I understand it most mathematics/statistical courses, theoretical physics, computer science, quantitative economics etc are still predominantly lecture based at an undergraduate level.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Economics is not a science. And you are missing the small group teaching element - did you never have tutorials, workshops etc?
    Have you never heard of BSc (Econ)?
    My degree is also titled as a BSc(Econ) and like Barty I am a questionable economist. Scientific rigour is certainly missing. Although in my favour (and not Barty's) I think the Laffer Curve is nonsense.
    The Laffer Curve is not nonsense, but most applications of it are.

    Too often, including by Laffer himself, the Curve is used as a justification to cut the top-rate of tax on the highest earners without any evidence as to whether or why we are past the peak for that rate . . . while ignoring significantly real higher rates of tax that exist which are far more distorting, such as our cliff edges.

    There are countless stories of people changing their behaviour at cliff edges, where tax rates approach or even exceed 100%, because they're rational. That's Laffer in action, rather than piddling about at 45p or whatever.
    I’ve sat across from people saying they don’t want to work more hours, because of benefit withdrawal creating an 80% effective tax rate on the extra hours.

    If that isn’t Laffer Curve behaviour, what is?
    Do curves have cliff edges ?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,323

    boulay said:

    Eabhal said:

    ...

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Another day another university set for strike action with belligerent language from the UcU union head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpkj18xjjo

    What a basket case our universities seems to be.

    Is there anyone who doesn't think the government should give them more money?
    Why ?

    A lot of this is down to a fall in demand for courses. Giving them more money won’t change that.
    Is it? Universities lose money on every home student they teach, because the government caps the fees at below-cost. For a while, the plan was to shimmy round that by bringing in lots of foreign students paying shedloads. For various reasons (including, but not restricted to, fear of numbers of people coming to the UK) that model has blown up.

    Suspect that puts universities in the same basket as a lot of other institutions. Yes they need more funding, yes that probably has to come from the taxpayer, no people won't be happy if the University of Theirtown closes down...

    ... but God forbid that taxes go up to pay for it.
    Do they?

    Thinking back to my own University days there were about 200 students in the lecture hall. Each student is paying close to £8000 in fees per annum.

    That cohort then is paying between them £1.6mn in fees, even if they're all home students.

    If the universities aren't able to make money on that, then maybe their costs are too high, rather than fees too low.
    Some subjects they absolutely don't get close to covering the cost. Basically, most STEM subjects. Also, students are way more demanding now in what they expect the university to provide and since the government made it a market, they all have to provide these things.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture theatre based I don't see why they can't make money, if ran efficiently. The latter part is an issue though.

    For medicine/engineering etc there's more involved but compare the class sizes in lecture theatres to the class sizes in primary/high schools and there's little reason why lecture theatre-based courses aren't making money from home students.

    Especially when students maybe have about 12-15 hours of lectures a week, not full time.
    Other than maths, no STEM subject is just lecture thearte based, they all need labs and they are very expensive to run. Also, they aren't part-time, STEM subjects often are basically in either lectures or labs closer to 20-30hrs a week.

    I definitely think in general universities aren't run very efficiently, but it is widely acknowledged that things like Chemistry, easily cost £15k / year / student to run due to all the extras that are required to be provided.

    Actually even maths now isn't just sit in the lecture theatre and write down all this crazy stuff off the blackboard. There is a lot of interest in theory of ML, application of ML to solving really hard problems, and then you need PC labs with GPU clusters.
    The cap on fees is ridiculous. The demand is there from the students but universities are suffering from inflation just as the wider economy is too. And add in the NI changes. Plus Uni academics have had the same pay deflation as medics over the same time.

    It also a nonsense as some (well one) on here seem to believe a STEM course can be entirely lecture based. What world is he/she living on?

    And lastly - the cap on fees is disadvantaging UK citizens. I'm admissions tutor for my course and I have been told that we will likely be in clearing for overseas students, but NOT for home. The uni sees overseas as more attractive because they pay more.

    I have no doubt that universities could be better run. We employ a lot of staff that never teach students or do research. Bath has a very well resourced widening access team, aiming to get students from poorer, disadvantaged backgrounds to uni. Its a laudable aim but we pour money into it for relatively few bums on seats. Academics are constantly wasting time on admin tasks that aren't really important. And DEI plays a role here as we have to be hitting all our DEI targets etc.

    But frankly the big one is the fees. Let unis charge more and let it become a proper market.
    I never said all courses are entirely lecture based, however many courses are yet still face the same close to £10k in fees so swings and roundabouts.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture based... Which ones are those then?
    Economics if you class the quantitative side as STEM, that's what I studied my BSc in and it was predominantly lecture based.

    As far as I understand it most mathematics/statistical courses, theoretical physics, computer science, quantitative economics etc are still predominantly lecture based at an undergraduate level.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Economics is not a science. And you are missing the small group teaching element - did you never have tutorials, workshops etc?
    Have you never heard of BSc (Econ)?
    My degree is also titled as a BSc(Econ) and like Barty I am a questionable economist. Scientific rigour is certainly missing. Although in my favour (and not Barty's) I think the Laffer Curve is nonsense.
    The Laffer Curve is not nonsense, but most applications of it are.

    Too often, including by Laffer himself, the Curve is used as a justification to cut the top-rate of tax on the highest earners without any evidence as to whether or why we are past the peak for that rate . . . while ignoring significantly real higher rates of tax that exist which are far more distorting, such as our cliff edges.

    There are countless stories of people changing their behaviour at cliff edges, where tax rates approach or even exceed 100%, because they're rational. That's Laffer in action, rather than piddling about at 45p or whatever.
    So in practice the Laffer Curve doesn't work. Thank you for clearing that up.
    The Laffer Curve really just proffers the trivial points that if the government taxes at 0% it'll get no income, and if it taxes at 100% it'll get no income. The actual curve bit is just simplistic silliness that you shouldn't be basing entire economic models on.
    Also short term v long term. If people have got kids in a good school they aren't moving because of a 60% top rate of tax.

    But some people might not move to that country in the first place, or decide to move before those kids come along. That's the danger in Scotland with our higher taxes - we won't know for some time (or at all) if they've had a negative impact on growth.
    Weirdly enough, the places where these people leave to when the 60% top rate comes in also have top schools. Amazingly these places, by having nice lifestyles, low taxes and being attractive to the wealthy are able to attract very good teachers and educational administrators as well as the rich parents of their young charges.

    So the kids of the wealthy who leave who aren’t already boarding start boarding or go to one of the myriad of very good international schools in Geneva, Zurich, Dubai, Singapore etc.

    The idea that kids being at a good day school in London or elsewhere is a huge restraint compared to the push from massive taxation is weak.

    Changing schools at other than the traditional break points is definitely discouraging to moving around.
    I have met a couple of families who are leaving who have had concerns and they have both approached it by the husband moving offshore with the business and the money, selling the UK assets and renting a UK property for the wife and children during term time. It’s not perfect but it’s happening.

    Otherwise the schools are good and there isn’t the major fear of downgrading the children’s education.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,272
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Mr dog makes it to his eighteenth country (Copenhagen for scale)

    Very nice. There are some great bars on that canal. Once sat there with my then wife and we got agreeably drunk of a sunny afternoon. Copenhagen is fun
    A tempting suggestion, but the afternoon ferry to Norway awaits shortly

    So far every border we have crossed has been manned, with checks on the entered side. It seems the days of unmanned borders is coming to an end
    Yes they are and it’s sad. Someone wrote about it in the Spec

    https://src.spectator.co.uk/article/how-schengen-divided-europe/
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,230
    Stereodog said:

    dixiedean said:

    Here's an idea.
    Instead of simply claiming mental health conditions aren't real, how about exerting some effort to explain why the rates are soaring? And make plans to treat and prevent them?
    Just a thought.

    100% agree. It can take around 4 months to access any kind of mental health support other than medication on the NHS. Sort that out first and then talk about reforming benefits otherwise you're stranding people with no support or income. There are so many people who think that mental health issues are just feeling a bit sad. It can be just as crippling as a physical illness.
    4 months for any kind, yes.
    For specifics, the waiting list for adult ADHD assessment in my area is 2 and a half years. That's just to get on a list to see a prescriber.
    For adult autism it is seven years as long as you don't present a physical threat to yourself or others.
    Commit a crime or suicide to get a diagnosis.
    Imagine if it were that for cancer...
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,390

    Guido can exclusively reveal that in the background Labour has been busy negotiating a one in, one out asylum seeker deal with the French for revelation within days. It’s a big policy – intended to be unveiled for Starmer’s one-year anniversary as a rabbit…

    The policy is intended to break the small boats model – a percentage of asylum seekers will be returned to France on landing while the same number of applicants at the asylum processing centre in Paris will be accepted.

    https://order-order.com/2025/06/26/exc-starmer-to-agree-one-in-one-out-asylum-exchange-with-france-for-labour-anniversary/

    I'm sure this got trailed shortly after the election, then vanished without trace.

    I can't see why the French would agree to this unless there is a catch we're not being told about. It's generally assumed that the French would prefer their asylum seekers to find their way to the UK, which is why they don't try very hard to stop them boarding boats in the first place.

    If the French agree to accept boat returnees back, it will kill the boats dead - that's the point of the returns. So any deal with the French where the carrot for the French is per returnee will be a bad deal for France. We could pay them £1m a returnee, and they'd still get virtually nothing after the first couple of weeks as £1m * zero is still zero.

    So either:
    a) This agreement isn't going to let us return all the boat arrivals, and thus the boats won't stop
    b) There is some other massive carrot been given the French that hasn't been leaked yet
    c) The French are terrible at negotiating
    or
    d) This is the agreement Starmer would like, but the French won't agree it in a million years.

    My money is on some combination of (a) and (b) in which we pay the French loads of money and fail to return enough people to stop the boats.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,508
    MattW said:

    'New town' planned for west London brownfield land
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgnw90ve9vo

    The new town is welcome, although 25,000 homes sounds more like a new housing estate.

    But we need to do this somewhere else and not make the country even more reliant on London.

    Is calling it a 'new town' a way to tap into central government funding?
    There's something screwy somewhere, perhaps. 50k people give or take on 70 acres does not quite add up.

    That is 600-700 per acre. The Barbican is 228 per acre.

    It can be done, but it would be a surprise there.
    Perhaps they’re aiming for a new Pruitt Igoe for the inevitable Koyaanisqatsi remake?
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,338
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    I've made sure I've laid in enough salt for the YouGov MRP this morning though they did the LD seat number right last year. Perhaps they have it right now...

    East Ham would end up 42% Labour, 15% Green, 14% Reform, 10% Conservative and 10% Other. I'm a long way from convinced by that given current trends.

    MRPs missed the locally based Independents last time and could well do so again as that vote is concentrated in perhaps 30 seats.

    YouGov said they may be missing some independents as they aren't asking about individual candidates at this stage (as candidates aren't known).

    Overall, I would say this MRP feels more sensible than the other one. Main surprise is they have Reform winning seats in Scotland (Dumfries and DCT from the Cons and Ayr from Lab)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,025
    I was playimg about with figures after looking at the MRPs with a Tory 'Lib Dem 2015' collapse to almost extinction and was drawing up a list of seats i cannot see the Tories losing under any circumstances next time. I currently see no way they lose

    Harrow East
    Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner
    Croydon South
    Hertsmere
    Windsor
    Beaconsfield
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
    Dumfriesshire
    Mid Bucks
    Rutland and Stamford
    Kenilworth and Southam
    Chester South and Eddisbury

    So in my mind the absolute worst case Tory result (this time) is just over 10 seats

    In all likelihood I think 20 is probably their true floor and 200 their absolute ceiling on recovery to mid twenties % with Ref and Lab on similar

    For the others I currently think

    LDs 30 floor. 90 ceiling
    Greens 2 floor 10 ceiling
    Labour 80 floor 330 ceiling
    Reform 50 floor 400 ceiling

    And we are within movement seen during the first half of 2025 of all of those happening
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,903
    RefUK would win both Dumfriesshire and Dumfries&Galloway with today's MRP.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,047
    edited 12:28PM
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    From today's Times, page 4.

    "A tube passenger who killed a commuter with one punch after he brushed past him on an escalator will serve less than five and a half years in jail before being eligible for parole. Rakeem Miles, 23, was convicted of manslaughter at Inner London crown court and sentenced to eight years in jail over the death of Samuel Winter, 28, last August."

    Still no clue as to his housing status.
    This is such a sad case. The poor victim looks like he wouldn’t say boo to a goose, and from what we know of him, was a kind and compassionate young man.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,903
    theProle said:

    Guido can exclusively reveal that in the background Labour has been busy negotiating a one in, one out asylum seeker deal with the French for revelation within days. It’s a big policy – intended to be unveiled for Starmer’s one-year anniversary as a rabbit…

    The policy is intended to break the small boats model – a percentage of asylum seekers will be returned to France on landing while the same number of applicants at the asylum processing centre in Paris will be accepted.

    https://order-order.com/2025/06/26/exc-starmer-to-agree-one-in-one-out-asylum-exchange-with-france-for-labour-anniversary/

    I'm sure this got trailed shortly after the election, then vanished without trace.

    I can't see why the French would agree to this unless there is a catch we're not being told about. It's generally assumed that the French would prefer their asylum seekers to find their way to the UK, which is why they don't try very hard to stop them boarding boats in the first place.

    If the French agree to accept boat returnees back, it will kill the boats dead - that's the point of the returns. So any deal with the French where the carrot for the French is per returnee will be a bad deal for France. We could pay them £1m a returnee, and they'd still get virtually nothing after the first couple of weeks as £1m * zero is still zero.

    So either:
    a) This agreement isn't going to let us return all the boat arrivals, and thus the boats won't stop
    b) There is some other massive carrot been given the French that hasn't been leaked yet
    c) The French are terrible at negotiating
    or
    d) This is the agreement Starmer would like, but the French won't agree it in a million years.

    My money is on some combination of (a) and (b) in which we pay the French loads of money and fail to return enough people to stop the boats.
    We've already given the French lots of carrots.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,340
    Leon said:

    I have just been asked to write about A PARTICULAR SUBJECT

    This has happened before. Difference this time is that it’s a well known foreign magazine. They’ve noticed my flinty opinions and are so keen on them they are happy for me to write in English and then they will translate into foreign

    Hah. I’m becoming an international expert!

    The paradox is that if you are right about APS then you could get APS to write the article for you and translate it. Or they could.

    Unless you mean age verification on porn sites which we discussed earlier.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,025
    edited 12:30PM
    Andy_JS said:

    RefUK would win both Dumfriesshire and Dumfries&Galloway with today's MRP.

    That relies on the border Tories jumping ship. Galloway maybe, Dumfriesshire? Nah
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,338

    Andy_JS said:

    "DAN HODGES: Keir Starmer's time is up and his party 'have had enough'. That's the withering verdict from his own MPs... and this is what they tell me is coming next"

    https://x.com/DailyMailUK/status/1937951083395006506

    After 11 months? Bloody hell.

    Of course, this is Hodges we're dealing with here, but if he's right I wonder if Sir Keir's 'noises off' will be recorded as his death knell, akin to 'crisis what crisis?', 'basket of deplorables' etc. That moment when the person in charge seems irreparably aloof and high handed.
    The issue here is that assuming Starmer doesn't leave voluntarily, then they can't just VONC him. Someone has to stand against him directly and then it goes to the members to vote.

    If it's going to happen the realistic timeframe is May 26 - especially if Lab come 3rd in Scotland and Wales
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,294
    Leon said:

    I have just been asked to write about A PARTICULAR SUBJECT

    This has happened before. Difference this time is that it’s a well known foreign magazine. They’ve noticed my flinty opinions and are so keen on them they are happy for me to write in English and then they will translate into foreign

    Hah. I’m becoming an international expert!

    Will they use A PARTICLAR SUBJECT to translate?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,025

    Andy_JS said:

    "DAN HODGES: Keir Starmer's time is up and his party 'have had enough'. That's the withering verdict from his own MPs... and this is what they tell me is coming next"

    https://x.com/DailyMailUK/status/1937951083395006506

    After 11 months? Bloody hell.

    Of course, this is Hodges we're dealing with here, but if he's right I wonder if Sir Keir's 'noises off' will be recorded as his death knell, akin to 'crisis what crisis?', 'basket of deplorables' etc. That moment when the person in charge seems irreparably aloof and high handed.
    The issue here is that assuming Starmer doesn't leave voluntarily, then they can't just VONC him. Someone has to stand against him directly and then it goes to the members to vote.

    If it's going to happen the realistic timeframe is May 26 - especially if Lab come 3rd in Scotland and Wales
    (4th in Wales) 😉
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,338

    Andy_JS said:

    "DAN HODGES: Keir Starmer's time is up and his party 'have had enough'. That's the withering verdict from his own MPs... and this is what they tell me is coming next"

    https://x.com/DailyMailUK/status/1937951083395006506

    After 11 months? Bloody hell.

    Of course, this is Hodges we're dealing with here, but if he's right I wonder if Sir Keir's 'noises off' will be recorded as his death knell, akin to 'crisis what crisis?', 'basket of deplorables' etc. That moment when the person in charge seems irreparably aloof and high handed.
    The issue here is that assuming Starmer doesn't leave voluntarily, then they can't just VONC him. Someone has to stand against him directly and then it goes to the members to vote.

    If it's going to happen the realistic timeframe is May 26 - especially if Lab come 3rd in Scotland and Wales
    (4th in Wales) 😉
    Behind Plaid, Ref and who else?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,297
    A small point, but this was reported in The Guardian live blog a couple of hours ago:

    "In her response to Starmer, Badenoch suggested that, if the US were to use its based on Diego Garcia to launch an attack on a country like Iran, the UK would have to notify Mauritius first under the terms of the government’s Chagos Islands deal.

    In response, Starmer said this was not true. He said:

    In relation to Diego Garcia, let me disabuse her. We do not have to give Mauritius advance notice under the treaty."
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,025
    Whilst I'm musing on the subject of MRPs and seats, the nature of FPTP and 4.75 party politics (Greens got an upgrade of 0.25) means that on getting 40% in any seat you're pretty much guaranteed to win it. At 35% you're likely to win it, at 30% youve a chance.
    Thus a party on mid thirties or above in polling is going to win massively, everywhere, at 30% if you are 5% clear you almost certainly get a majority or working minority
    Conversely, once you hit 20% nationally, Unless your vote is hopelessly equally spread you are definitely winning your best seats
    My point (such as it is) is that 26, 23, 18, 15, 11 is within MoE of a VERY different HoC
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,608

    Andy_JS said:

    "DAN HODGES: Keir Starmer's time is up and his party 'have had enough'. That's the withering verdict from his own MPs... and this is what they tell me is coming next"

    https://x.com/DailyMailUK/status/1937951083395006506

    After 11 months? Bloody hell.

    Of course, this is Hodges we're dealing with here, but if he's right I wonder if Sir Keir's 'noises off' will be recorded as his death knell, akin to 'crisis what crisis?', 'basket of deplorables' etc. That moment when the person in charge seems irreparably aloof and high handed.
    The issue here is that assuming Starmer doesn't leave voluntarily, then they can't just VONC him. Someone has to stand against him directly and then it goes to the members to vote.

    If it's going to happen the realistic timeframe is May 26 - especially if Lab come 3rd in Scotland and Wales
    (4th in Wales) 😉
    Are you expecting a Green or LD surge?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,903
    edited 12:43PM
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Mr dog makes it to his eighteenth country (Copenhagen for scale)

    Very nice. There are some great bars on that canal. Once sat there with my then wife and we got agreeably drunk of a sunny afternoon. Copenhagen is fun
    A tempting suggestion, but the afternoon ferry to Norway awaits shortly

    So far every border we have crossed has been manned, with checks on the entered side. It seems the days of unmanned borders is coming to an end
    Yes they are and it’s sad. Someone wrote about it in the Spec

    https://src.spectator.co.uk/article/how-schengen-divided-europe/
    The EU needed to police its external borders if it wanted Schengen to endure. It didn't, so we have internal borders instead. Regrettable.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,413
    CatMan said:

    A small point, but this was reported in The Guardian live blog a couple of hours ago:

    "In her response to Starmer, Badenoch suggested that, if the US were to use its based on Diego Garcia to launch an attack on a country like Iran, the UK would have to notify Mauritius first under the terms of the government’s Chagos Islands deal.

    In response, Starmer said this was not true. He said:

    In relation to Diego Garcia, let me disabuse her. We do not have to give Mauritius advance notice under the treaty."

    They said "prompt notice" I think in the document. Which could mean telling them shortly afterward, not before.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,025
    edited 12:50PM

    Andy_JS said:

    "DAN HODGES: Keir Starmer's time is up and his party 'have had enough'. That's the withering verdict from his own MPs... and this is what they tell me is coming next"

    https://x.com/DailyMailUK/status/1937951083395006506

    After 11 months? Bloody hell.

    Of course, this is Hodges we're dealing with here, but if he's right I wonder if Sir Keir's 'noises off' will be recorded as his death knell, akin to 'crisis what crisis?', 'basket of deplorables' etc. That moment when the person in charge seems irreparably aloof and high handed.
    The issue here is that assuming Starmer doesn't leave voluntarily, then they can't just VONC him. Someone has to stand against him directly and then it goes to the members to vote.

    If it's going to happen the realistic timeframe is May 26 - especially if Lab come 3rd in Scotland and Wales
    (4th in Wales) 😉
    Behind Plaid, Ref and who else?
    In votes they probably hold 3rd, but if they really get hammered by the voters I can see Tories pipping them for seats with a fortunate spread.
    That's NOT a prediction and isnt likely but they are close enough in some of the polling that if the voters really want to hammer them and they have gone a bit backwards (let's say they are polling slightly behind Tories nationally in third by next May) then its not impossible. 10% chance right now I think

    7 points and 5 points difference in the last 2 polls, 2 point swing between them and its drawn into mathematically possible to tie or lose on seats depending how the votes spread
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,659
    edited 12:48PM
    carnforth said:

    CatMan said:

    A small point, but this was reported in The Guardian live blog a couple of hours ago:

    "In her response to Starmer, Badenoch suggested that, if the US were to use its based on Diego Garcia to launch an attack on a country like Iran, the UK would have to notify Mauritius first under the terms of the government’s Chagos Islands deal.

    In response, Starmer said this was not true. He said:

    In relation to Diego Garcia, let me disabuse her. We do not have to give Mauritius advance notice under the treaty."

    They said "prompt notice" I think in the document. Which could mean telling them shortly afterward, not before.
    After which it would hardly be unknown to the rest of the world anyway.

    Of all the aspects of the deal, this seems a bit nothingburger.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,025

    Andy_JS said:

    "DAN HODGES: Keir Starmer's time is up and his party 'have had enough'. That's the withering verdict from his own MPs... and this is what they tell me is coming next"

    https://x.com/DailyMailUK/status/1937951083395006506

    After 11 months? Bloody hell.

    Of course, this is Hodges we're dealing with here, but if he's right I wonder if Sir Keir's 'noises off' will be recorded as his death knell, akin to 'crisis what crisis?', 'basket of deplorables' etc. That moment when the person in charge seems irreparably aloof and high handed.
    The issue here is that assuming Starmer doesn't leave voluntarily, then they can't just VONC him. Someone has to stand against him directly and then it goes to the members to vote.

    If it's going to happen the realistic timeframe is May 26 - especially if Lab come 3rd in Scotland and Wales
    (4th in Wales) 😉
    Are you expecting a Green or LD surge?
    Greens nil points, LDs might get 7% and 4 or 5 seats
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,390
    Andy_JS said:

    theProle said:

    Guido can exclusively reveal that in the background Labour has been busy negotiating a one in, one out asylum seeker deal with the French for revelation within days. It’s a big policy – intended to be unveiled for Starmer’s one-year anniversary as a rabbit…

    The policy is intended to break the small boats model – a percentage of asylum seekers will be returned to France on landing while the same number of applicants at the asylum processing centre in Paris will be accepted.

    https://order-order.com/2025/06/26/exc-starmer-to-agree-one-in-one-out-asylum-exchange-with-france-for-labour-anniversary/

    I'm sure this got trailed shortly after the election, then vanished without trace.

    I can't see why the French would agree to this unless there is a catch we're not being told about. It's generally assumed that the French would prefer their asylum seekers to find their way to the UK, which is why they don't try very hard to stop them boarding boats in the first place.

    If the French agree to accept boat returnees back, it will kill the boats dead - that's the point of the returns. So any deal with the French where the carrot for the French is per returnee will be a bad deal for France. We could pay them £1m a returnee, and they'd still get virtually nothing after the first couple of weeks as £1m * zero is still zero.

    So either:
    a) This agreement isn't going to let us return all the boat arrivals, and thus the boats won't stop
    b) There is some other massive carrot been given the French that hasn't been leaked yet
    c) The French are terrible at negotiating
    or
    d) This is the agreement Starmer would like, but the French won't agree it in a million years.

    My money is on some combination of (a) and (b) in which we pay the French loads of money and fail to return enough people to stop the boats.
    We've already given the French lots of carrots.
    Indeed. We currently pay the French loads of money without making an appreciable dent in the boat numbers.

    In what parallel universe would the French be keen to end this handy cash cow which also rids them of thousands of unwanted migrants with a deal from which they get nothing.

    Thinking about it, I think if I was negotiating with the French, I would try and align all our incentives. I'd try for a deal something like this: Give them £500m a year to "help police the border". Every illegal arrival is £10k deducted from this, so if arrivals continue at the present rate, they get £0. As a goodwill gesture, we don't deduct the £10k for an illegal who is accepted for immediate return.

    Boom. Incentives align. Everyone wins if there are zero arrivals. The French get a pile of cash for nothing. We get to return every arrival immediately, so shortly afterwards there are zero arrivals. It costs almost nothing to police, beyond the odd UK coastguard sweep to round up the ones trying to make it into the black economy. We save more on asylum hotels than we are paying the French.


  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,360
    Leon said:

    I have just been asked to write about A PARTICULAR SUBJECT

    This has happened before. Difference this time is that it’s a well known foreign magazine. They’ve noticed my flinty opinions and are so keen on them they are happy for me to write in English and then they will translate into foreign

    Hah. I’m becoming an international expert!

    Leon said:

    I have just been asked to write about A PARTICULAR SUBJECT

    This has happened before. Difference this time is that it’s a well known foreign magazine. They’ve noticed my flinty opinions and are so keen on them they are happy for me to write in English and then they will translate into foreign

    Hah. I’m becoming an international expert!

    Le Monde Dildo?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,776

    I was playimg about with figures after looking at the MRPs with a Tory 'Lib Dem 2015' collapse to almost extinction and was drawing up a list of seats i cannot see the Tories losing under any circumstances next time. I currently see no way they lose

    Harrow East
    Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner
    Croydon South
    Hertsmere
    Windsor
    Beaconsfield
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
    Dumfriesshire
    Mid Bucks
    Rutland and Stamford
    Kenilworth and Southam
    Chester South and Eddisbury

    So in my mind the absolute worst case Tory result (this time) is just over 10 seats

    In all likelihood I think 20 is probably their true floor and 200 their absolute ceiling on recovery to mid twenties % with Ref and Lab on similar

    For the others I currently think

    LDs 30 floor. 90 ceiling
    Greens 2 floor 10 ceiling
    Labour 80 floor 330 ceiling
    Reform 50 floor 400 ceiling

    And we are within movement seen during the first half of 2025 of all of those happening

    I haven't checked the others but why on earth could the Tories not lose Windsor. This area has been strong for the LDs and although boundary changes made it safer for the Tories the last result was:

    Con 16.5K
    Lab 10K
    LD 9.5K

    That looks very winnable to me for the LDs and certainly not in the Tory rock solid category.

    On another matter I notice that the MRP today gave a few seats to Reform in Devon and Cornwall with 4 party splits and all quite close. I suspect tactical voting will give some of those to the LDs who will target and squeeze the Tory/Lab vote.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,973

    ...

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Another day another university set for strike action with belligerent language from the UcU union head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpkj18xjjo

    What a basket case our universities seems to be.

    Is there anyone who doesn't think the government should give them more money?
    Why ?

    A lot of this is down to a fall in demand for courses. Giving them more money won’t change that.
    Is it? Universities lose money on every home student they teach, because the government caps the fees at below-cost. For a while, the plan was to shimmy round that by bringing in lots of foreign students paying shedloads. For various reasons (including, but not restricted to, fear of numbers of people coming to the UK) that model has blown up.

    Suspect that puts universities in the same basket as a lot of other institutions. Yes they need more funding, yes that probably has to come from the taxpayer, no people won't be happy if the University of Theirtown closes down...

    ... but God forbid that taxes go up to pay for it.
    Do they?

    Thinking back to my own University days there were about 200 students in the lecture hall. Each student is paying close to £8000 in fees per annum.

    That cohort then is paying between them £1.6mn in fees, even if they're all home students.

    If the universities aren't able to make money on that, then maybe their costs are too high, rather than fees too low.
    Some subjects they absolutely don't get close to covering the cost. Basically, most STEM subjects. Also, students are way more demanding now in what they expect the university to provide and since the government made it a market, they all have to provide these things.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture theatre based I don't see why they can't make money, if ran efficiently. The latter part is an issue though.

    For medicine/engineering etc there's more involved but compare the class sizes in lecture theatres to the class sizes in primary/high schools and there's little reason why lecture theatre-based courses aren't making money from home students.

    Especially when students maybe have about 12-15 hours of lectures a week, not full time.
    Other than maths, no STEM subject is just lecture thearte based, they all need labs and they are very expensive to run. Also, they aren't part-time, STEM subjects often are basically in either lectures or labs closer to 20-30hrs a week.

    I definitely think in general universities aren't run very efficiently, but it is widely acknowledged that things like Chemistry, easily cost £15k / year / student to run due to all the extras that are required to be provided.

    Actually even maths now isn't just sit in the lecture theatre and write down all this crazy stuff off the blackboard. There is a lot of interest in theory of ML, application of ML to solving really hard problems, and then you need PC labs with GPU clusters.
    The cap on fees is ridiculous. The demand is there from the students but universities are suffering from inflation just as the wider economy is too. And add in the NI changes. Plus Uni academics have had the same pay deflation as medics over the same time.

    It also a nonsense as some (well one) on here seem to believe a STEM course can be entirely lecture based. What world is he/she living on?

    And lastly - the cap on fees is disadvantaging UK citizens. I'm admissions tutor for my course and I have been told that we will likely be in clearing for overseas students, but NOT for home. The uni sees overseas as more attractive because they pay more.

    I have no doubt that universities could be better run. We employ a lot of staff that never teach students or do research. Bath has a very well resourced widening access team, aiming to get students from poorer, disadvantaged backgrounds to uni. Its a laudable aim but we pour money into it for relatively few bums on seats. Academics are constantly wasting time on admin tasks that aren't really important. And DEI plays a role here as we have to be hitting all our DEI targets etc.

    But frankly the big one is the fees. Let unis charge more and let it become a proper market.
    I never said all courses are entirely lecture based, however many courses are yet still face the same close to £10k in fees so swings and roundabouts.
    For STEM subjects that are lecture based... Which ones are those then?
    Economics if you class the quantitative side as STEM, that's what I studied my BSc in and it was predominantly lecture based.

    As far as I understand it most mathematics/statistical courses, theoretical physics, computer science, quantitative economics etc are still predominantly lecture based at an undergraduate level.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Economics is not a science. And you are missing the small group teaching element - did you never have tutorials, workshops etc?
    Have you never heard of BSc (Econ)?
    My degree is also titled as a BSc(Econ) and like Barty I am a questionable economist. Scientific rigour is certainly missing. Although in my favour (and not Barty's) I think the Laffer Curve is nonsense.
    The Laffer Curve is not nonsense, but most applications of it are.

    Too often, including by Laffer himself, the Curve is used as a justification to cut the top-rate of tax on the highest earners without any evidence as to whether or why we are past the peak for that rate . . . while ignoring significantly real higher rates of tax that exist which are far more distorting, such as our cliff edges.

    There are countless stories of people changing their behaviour at cliff edges, where tax rates approach or even exceed 100%, because they're rational. That's Laffer in action, rather than piddling about at 45p or whatever.
    So in practice the Laffer Curve doesn't work. Thank you for clearing that up.
    In practice it absolutely works.

    Like all economics how it works is a matter for debate.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,776
    Leon said:

    I have just been asked to write about A PARTICULAR SUBJECT

    This has happened before. Difference this time is that it’s a well known foreign magazine. They’ve noticed my flinty opinions and are so keen on them they are happy for me to write in English and then they will translate into foreign

    Hah. I’m becoming an international expert!

    This has always confused me. Isn't the clever use of a language lost once translated?

    On another matter, I noted you said, yesterday I think, you were looking for a life change in the next few years. What did you have in mind?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,025
    edited 1:03PM
    kjh said:

    I was playimg about with figures after looking at the MRPs with a Tory 'Lib Dem 2015' collapse to almost extinction and was drawing up a list of seats i cannot see the Tories losing under any circumstances next time. I currently see no way they lose

    Harrow East
    Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner
    Croydon South
    Hertsmere
    Windsor
    Beaconsfield
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
    Dumfriesshire
    Mid Bucks
    Rutland and Stamford
    Kenilworth and Southam
    Chester South and Eddisbury

    So in my mind the absolute worst case Tory result (this time) is just over 10 seats

    In all likelihood I think 20 is probably their true floor and 200 their absolute ceiling on recovery to mid twenties % with Ref and Lab on similar

    For the others I currently think

    LDs 30 floor. 90 ceiling
    Greens 2 floor 10 ceiling
    Labour 80 floor 330 ceiling
    Reform 50 floor 400 ceiling

    And we are within movement seen during the first half of 2025 of all of those happening

    I haven't checked the others but why on earth could the Tories not lose Windsor. This area has been strong for the LDs and although boundary changes made it safer for the Tories the last result was:

    Con 16.5K
    Lab 10K
    LD 9.5K

    That looks very winnable to me for the LDs and certainly not in the Tory rock solid category.

    On another matter I notice that the MRP today gave a few seats to Reform in Devon and Cornwall with 4 party splits and all quite close. I suspect tactical voting will give some of those to the LDs who will target and squeeze the Tory/Lab vote.
    LDs even at their height never broke 30% in Windsor, its not particularly strong for them and its not particularly Reformy territory to see further Tory drift (who are already bottom feeding on 36%) 18th safest seat on swing required

    On Devon etc why would LDs get tactical votes in 4 party splits seats?
    Tactical votes are when its one vs another
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,608
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    I have just been asked to write about A PARTICULAR SUBJECT

    This has happened before. Difference this time is that it’s a well known foreign magazine. They’ve noticed my flinty opinions and are so keen on them they are happy for me to write in English and then they will translate into foreign

    Hah. I’m becoming an international expert!

    This has always confused me. Isn't the clever use of a language lost once translated?

    On another matter, I noted you said, yesterday I think, you were looking for a life change in the next few years. What did you have in mind?
    Just wait until @Leon becomes @Leona

    Watch this space...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,984
    YouGov: reasons Labour2024 voters are abandoning Labour

    https://xcancel.com/YouGov/status/1937796719988625705#m
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,294
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    I have just been asked to write about A PARTICULAR SUBJECT

    This has happened before. Difference this time is that it’s a well known foreign magazine. They’ve noticed my flinty opinions and are so keen on them they are happy for me to write in English and then they will translate into foreign

    Hah. I’m becoming an international expert!

    This has always confused me. Isn't the clever use of a language lost once translated?

    On another matter, I noted you said, yesterday I think, you were looking for a life change in the next few years. What did you have in mind?
    I think the true skill of translation is to take well written text, clever use of language and translate it into another language in such a way that the cleverness and quality of text is preserved.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,998
    edited 1:11PM
    Book Bannings in Tennessee.

    JD Vance is evidently involved; one county - Monroe County - has banned "The Complete Book of Cats" from school libraries. And Calvin and Hobbes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyGA3G9raJI

    (This is not new, but I'm just catching up.)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,465
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    I have just been asked to write about A PARTICULAR SUBJECT

    This has happened before. Difference this time is that it’s a well known foreign magazine. They’ve noticed my flinty opinions and are so keen on them they are happy for me to write in English and then they will translate into foreign

    Hah. I’m becoming an international expert!

    This has always confused me. Isn't the clever use of a language lost once translated?

    On another matter, I noted you said, yesterday I think, you were looking for a life change in the next few years. What did you have in mind?
    A literal translation is likely to lose something, but a top quality translator will be able make a translation that is less literally accurate, but better preserves the clever plays on words, etc.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,127

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    I have just been asked to write about A PARTICULAR SUBJECT

    This has happened before. Difference this time is that it’s a well known foreign magazine. They’ve noticed my flinty opinions and are so keen on them they are happy for me to write in English and then they will translate into foreign

    Hah. I’m becoming an international expert!

    This has always confused me. Isn't the clever use of a language lost once translated?

    On another matter, I noted you said, yesterday I think, you were looking for a life change in the next few years. What did you have in mind?
    Just wait until @Leon becomes @Leona

    Watch this space...
    Having once been Lady G I assume this would be a reversal of a reversal. *Their* poor old undercarriage would be in a right state.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,340
    BBC website in US launches paid subscription service
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2vgkn7w10o

    Paywall in other words. The BBC is skint, and co-production money has dried up.

    And sod soft power. Who needs Americans to care about Blighty?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,659
    U.S. intelligence believes Pakistan is developing an ICBM capable of reaching the U.S., likely to deter American involvement in a future conflict with India. Officials warn that deploying such a weapon would make Pakistan a nuclear threat, not a partner.
    https://x.com/Osint613/status/1938211019446239409
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,998

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    I have just been asked to write about A PARTICULAR SUBJECT

    This has happened before. Difference this time is that it’s a well known foreign magazine. They’ve noticed my flinty opinions and are so keen on them they are happy for me to write in English and then they will translate into foreign

    Hah. I’m becoming an international expert!

    This has always confused me. Isn't the clever use of a language lost once translated?

    On another matter, I noted you said, yesterday I think, you were looking for a life change in the next few years. What did you have in mind?
    A literal translation is likely to lose something, but a top quality translator will be able make a translation that is less literally accurate, but better preserves the clever plays on words, etc.
    There are umpteen types of translation, and it varies according to many factors.

    The best examples of different audience needs are probably bibles translations.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,942
    edited 1:15PM

    BBC website in US launches paid subscription service
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2vgkn7w10o

    Paywall in other words. The BBC is skint, and co-production money has dried up.

    And sod soft power. Who needs Americans to care about Blighty?

    $9 a month for basically BBC News Channel seems a tad steep….while not charging for podcasts. I presume you also still get the ads on the News channel stream.
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