How united are Reform? – politicalbetting.com

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How united are Reform? – politicalbetting.com

Have Reform's recent rows affected whether people think the party is united or divided? Overall Brits are more likely to say Reform is more united than either Labour or the Tories. But in our latest polling from this weekend their net united score has fallen from +15 to 0.

Read the full story here

Nigelb

Hello

I'm not sure most voters have any real grasp of whether Reform is united or not.
I'm moderately well informed and don't really have a strong opinion on it.

IanB2

Not!

Nigelb

Their economic policies are nonsense, though.
And they're probably united in denial of that.

Roger

Luke Tryl seems very adept at getting publicity for himself and his polls but they never seem as relevant or well framed as Yougov's. This one seems completely potty.

Cookie

FPT:

HYUFD said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

algarkirk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

turbotubbs said:

Mexicanpete said:

The sun is over the yardarm.

Listening to BBC R4 WATO.

Well, well, well. Today's tame Reform interview involves new Chairman Dr David Bull.

The BBC will be able to string this out to the next GE at this rate.

Isn't that a good thing? Nick Griffen's bubble burst in the headlights of public scrutiny. One appearance on Question Time was all it took.

Surely scrutinising Reform day in, day out until the election is good? Frankly a bit more scrutiny of the Ming Vase might have been good last year,

Took a feckin long time for Griffin's bubble to burst in that case given the BNP had their best ever GE result 7 months later. Obviously the sophisticated UK electorate thought we'll give Nicky Nazi one more chance.
Alternatively Farage took over the xenophobe mantle very soon after, though the disinfectant of sunlight of dozens of QT appearances didn't seem to harm his bubble in the slightest.

That's because he's very good and invariably those he's up against in this scenarios talk more shite than he does.

Griffin/BNP never had electoral appeal. The authoritarian explicitly anti-black explicitly racist far right doesn't.

People are behind the curve. Farage needed to get the support of populist voters and he has. He has clearly moved to the socially conservative centre ground of the broad social democrat consensus, with the addition of a strong closed borders policy. He doesn't have policies that will frighten the horses. He has to survive several years with curently a strong support base, the other parties very feeble and Reform having a very fragile leadership team.

The great need is for Lab/Tory and LD to get their narrative skills up to speed, and tell a much better story than Farage does. And appear more competent and more confident about the electorate.

I don't think that's really an appropriate description. Modern social democracy is about the veneration and growth of the state, and its mores and rules. Reform wants to cut the state and its mores and rules, quite radically in some areas, but extend its role in others.

I also wonder how much of it is simply brought on by necessity. The steelworks of Port Talbot and Scunthorpe cannot exist without Government support of some sort, but that’s not their fault, it's the fault of wretched short-sighted policies over many years. A lot of Reform's recommendations seem to be a last ditch attempt to save these capabilities, rather than committed social democracy.

Either way, I would like (and I think it's more possible now than ever before) to have two party politics with Reform on the left and the Tories on the right. A small state sound money Gladstonian party (Tories) vs. a more interventionist but still very patriotic party (Reform), would rid us of the corrosive effect of the anti-British decision makers who have been running the show for many decades.

Not going to happen, more likely would be LDs on the cultural liberal globalist side and Reform on the cultural right nationalist side if we replace the economic battle of the last century between the Conservatives and Labour with a cultural battle this century.

Though a small Conservative party on the lines you describe could still survive, especially if we have PR, alongside a slightly bigger left of centre Labour party still representing the public sector and students

I was considering the other day that - assuming a bit of shuffling about - we now have four parties in England each of which could comfortably represent one of the sectors in the traditional two-axis economic/cultural political model, rather than the previous model of three parties all fitting rather unsatisfactorily into none of them (i.e. Cons: economically liberal, socially conservative; LDs economically liberal, socially liberal; Reform economically conservative, socially conservative; Lab economically conservative, socially liberal.) I wonder if it will work out that way?

Taz

Nigelb said:

Hello

I'm not sure most voters have any real grasp of whether Reform is united or not.
I'm moderately well informed and don't really have a strong opinion on it.

The only two things I’ve seen is the spat between Lowe and Farage and Yusuf flouncing then returning.

I’d say they were far from united.

Taz

Nigelb said:

Their economic policies are nonsense, though.
And they're probably united in denial of that.

They just seem to have a random policy generator which throws out stuff. Whether or not it makes sense remains to be seen.

TheScreamingEagles

Taz said:

Nigelb said:

Their economic policies are nonsense, though.
And they're probably united in denial of that.

They just seem to have a random policy generator which throws out stuff. Whether or not it makes sense remains to be seen.

It’s like Liz Truss is Reform’s Chief Policy/Economic Adviser.

Eabhal

Cookie said:

FPT:

HYUFD said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

algarkirk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

turbotubbs said:

Mexicanpete said:

The sun is over the yardarm.

Listening to BBC R4 WATO.

Well, well, well. Today's tame Reform interview involves new Chairman Dr David Bull.

The BBC will be able to string this out to the next GE at this rate.

Isn't that a good thing? Nick Griffen's bubble burst in the headlights of public scrutiny. One appearance on Question Time was all it took.

Surely scrutinising Reform day in, day out until the election is good? Frankly a bit more scrutiny of the Ming Vase might have been good last year,

Took a feckin long time for Griffin's bubble to burst in that case given the BNP had their best ever GE result 7 months later. Obviously the sophisticated UK electorate thought we'll give Nicky Nazi one more chance.
Alternatively Farage took over the xenophobe mantle very soon after, though the disinfectant of sunlight of dozens of QT appearances didn't seem to harm his bubble in the slightest.

That's because he's very good and invariably those he's up against in this scenarios talk more shite than he does.

Griffin/BNP never had electoral appeal. The authoritarian explicitly anti-black explicitly racist far right doesn't.

People are behind the curve. Farage needed to get the support of populist voters and he has. He has clearly moved to the socially conservative centre ground of the broad social democrat consensus, with the addition of a strong closed borders policy. He doesn't have policies that will frighten the horses. He has to survive several years with curently a strong support base, the other parties very feeble and Reform having a very fragile leadership team.

The great need is for Lab/Tory and LD to get their narrative skills up to speed, and tell a much better story than Farage does. And appear more competent and more confident about the electorate.

I don't think that's really an appropriate description. Modern social democracy is about the veneration and growth of the state, and its mores and rules. Reform wants to cut the state and its mores and rules, quite radically in some areas, but extend its role in others.

I also wonder how much of it is simply brought on by necessity. The steelworks of Port Talbot and Scunthorpe cannot exist without Government support of some sort, but that’s not their fault, it's the fault of wretched short-sighted policies over many years. A lot of Reform's recommendations seem to be a last ditch attempt to save these capabilities, rather than committed social democracy.

Either way, I would like (and I think it's more possible now than ever before) to have two party politics with Reform on the left and the Tories on the right. A small state sound money Gladstonian party (Tories) vs. a more interventionist but still very patriotic party (Reform), would rid us of the corrosive effect of the anti-British decision makers who have been running the show for many decades.

Not going to happen, more likely would be LDs on the cultural liberal globalist side and Reform on the cultural right nationalist side if we replace the economic battle of the last century between the Conservatives and Labour with a cultural battle this century.

Though a small Conservative party on the lines you describe could still survive, especially if we have PR, alongside a slightly bigger left of centre Labour party still representing the public sector and students

I was considering the other day that - assuming a bit of shuffling about - we now have four parties in England each of which could comfortably represent one of the sectors in the traditional two-axis economic/cultural political model, rather than the previous model of three parties all fitting rather unsatisfactorily into none of them (i.e. Cons: economically liberal, socially conservative; LDs economically liberal, socially liberal; Reform economically conservative, socially conservative; Lab economically conservative, socially liberal.) I wonder if it will work out that way?

If it breaks into the four quadrants, I'd assume Labour left econ/left cultural, Con right/right, Reform left/right, LD right/left.

The trouble is there are very few people actually interested in econ right, particularly those who are cultural right - they are basically all on PB. That's why the Conservatives are in such a pickle.

BartholomewRoberts

I think they're very United.

[Manchester] United

SandyRentool

United Reform?

It's a broad church.

david_herdson

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

OldKingCole

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I think we got a flavour of division with that silly question about the burqa.

IanB2

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I suspect we are currently at peak Reform. Spotting the decline, until it becomes obvious, will be difficult, but in some months time we will see it, as happened to the SDP during the early ‘80s.

SandyRentool

Off topic, we are having a couple of nights in the Lake District. A complimentary bottle of Da Luca Prosecco awaited us in our room. This retails at £12.50 a bottle, so way more than I would pay for fizz. Probably double that from the hotel bar.

As Wor Lass ain't drinking, I am likely to be somewhat pre-loaded before we reach the restaurant!

MarqueeMark

TheScreamingEagles said:

Taz said:

Nigelb said:

Their economic policies are nonsense, though.
And they're probably united in denial of that.

They just seem to have a random policy generator which throws out stuff. Whether or not it makes sense remains to be seen.

It’s like Liz Truss is Reform’s Chief Policy/Economic Adviser.

Scary.

And accurate.

HYUFD

Reform are still seen as more united than Labour and the Tories which helps Farage even now.

If more resignations and backstabbing emerge though the trend will not be his friend

MarqueeMark

IanB2 said:

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I suspect we are currently at peak Reform. Spotting the decline, until it becomes obvious, will be difficult, but in some months time we will see it, as happened to the SDP during the early ‘80s.

Maybe 12-24 months off. They will get a big surge from the locals in 2026. But we are still a long way from a general election. For now, the voters can still scare the main parties shitless by at least appearing to take Reform seriously.

Naughty voters...

HYUFD

Cookie said:

FPT:

HYUFD said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

algarkirk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

turbotubbs said:

Mexicanpete said:

The sun is over the yardarm.

Listening to BBC R4 WATO.

Well, well, well. Today's tame Reform interview involves new Chairman Dr David Bull.

The BBC will be able to string this out to the next GE at this rate.

Isn't that a good thing? Nick Griffen's bubble burst in the headlights of public scrutiny. One appearance on Question Time was all it took.

Surely scrutinising Reform day in, day out until the election is good? Frankly a bit more scrutiny of the Ming Vase might have been good last year,

Took a feckin long time for Griffin's bubble to burst in that case given the BNP had their best ever GE result 7 months later. Obviously the sophisticated UK electorate thought we'll give Nicky Nazi one more chance.
Alternatively Farage took over the xenophobe mantle very soon after, though the disinfectant of sunlight of dozens of QT appearances didn't seem to harm his bubble in the slightest.

That's because he's very good and invariably those he's up against in this scenarios talk more shite than he does.

Griffin/BNP never had electoral appeal. The authoritarian explicitly anti-black explicitly racist far right doesn't.

People are behind the curve. Farage needed to get the support of populist voters and he has. He has clearly moved to the socially conservative centre ground of the broad social democrat consensus, with the addition of a strong closed borders policy. He doesn't have policies that will frighten the horses. He has to survive several years with curently a strong support base, the other parties very feeble and Reform having a very fragile leadership team.

The great need is for Lab/Tory and LD to get their narrative skills up to speed, and tell a much better story than Farage does. And appear more competent and more confident about the electorate.

I don't think that's really an appropriate description. Modern social democracy is about the veneration and growth of the state, and its mores and rules. Reform wants to cut the state and its mores and rules, quite radically in some areas, but extend its role in others.

I also wonder how much of it is simply brought on by necessity. The steelworks of Port Talbot and Scunthorpe cannot exist without Government support of some sort, but that’s not their fault, it's the fault of wretched short-sighted policies over many years. A lot of Reform's recommendations seem to be a last ditch attempt to save these capabilities, rather than committed social democracy.

Either way, I would like (and I think it's more possible now than ever before) to have two party politics with Reform on the left and the Tories on the right. A small state sound money Gladstonian party (Tories) vs. a more interventionist but still very patriotic party (Reform), would rid us of the corrosive effect of the anti-British decision makers who have been running the show for many decades.

Not going to happen, more likely would be LDs on the cultural liberal globalist side and Reform on the cultural right nationalist side if we replace the economic battle of the last century between the Conservatives and Labour with a cultural battle this century.

Though a small Conservative party on the lines you describe could still survive, especially if we have PR, alongside a slightly bigger left of centre Labour party still representing the public sector and students

I was considering the other day that - assuming a bit of shuffling about - we now have four parties in England each of which could comfortably represent one of the sectors in the traditional two-axis economic/cultural political model, rather than the previous model of three parties all fitting rather unsatisfactorily into none of them (i.e. Cons: economically liberal, socially conservative; LDs economically liberal, socially liberal; Reform economically conservative, socially conservative; Lab economically conservative, socially liberal.) I wonder if it will work out that way?

You mean economically statist rather than conservative though

wooliedyed

On thread

https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1932435399474876659?s=19
Probably rather less United if their new chairman speaks out against the recruiting sergeant for the bulk of its support (regardless of how right the statement is)

Sean_F

IanB2 said:

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I suspect we are currently at peak Reform. Spotting the decline, until it becomes obvious, will be difficult, but in some months time we will see it, as happened to the SDP during the early ‘80s.

They’ll get further boosts from by-elections, Senedd, London, Scottish, and local elections from 2026-28.

They might implode, but so might the Conservatives.

Selebian

Eabhal said:

Cookie said:

FPT:

HYUFD said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

algarkirk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

turbotubbs said:

Mexicanpete said:

The sun is over the yardarm.

Listening to BBC R4 WATO.

Well, well, well. Today's tame Reform interview involves new Chairman Dr David Bull.

The BBC will be able to string this out to the next GE at this rate.

Isn't that a good thing? Nick Griffen's bubble burst in the headlights of public scrutiny. One appearance on Question Time was all it took.

Surely scrutinising Reform day in, day out until the election is good? Frankly a bit more scrutiny of the Ming Vase might have been good last year,

Took a feckin long time for Griffin's bubble to burst in that case given the BNP had their best ever GE result 7 months later. Obviously the sophisticated UK electorate thought we'll give Nicky Nazi one more chance.
Alternatively Farage took over the xenophobe mantle very soon after, though the disinfectant of sunlight of dozens of QT appearances didn't seem to harm his bubble in the slightest.

That's because he's very good and invariably those he's up against in this scenarios talk more shite than he does.

Griffin/BNP never had electoral appeal. The authoritarian explicitly anti-black explicitly racist far right doesn't.

People are behind the curve. Farage needed to get the support of populist voters and he has. He has clearly moved to the socially conservative centre ground of the broad social democrat consensus, with the addition of a strong closed borders policy. He doesn't have policies that will frighten the horses. He has to survive several years with curently a strong support base, the other parties very feeble and Reform having a very fragile leadership team.

The great need is for Lab/Tory and LD to get their narrative skills up to speed, and tell a much better story than Farage does. And appear more competent and more confident about the electorate.

I don't think that's really an appropriate description. Modern social democracy is about the veneration and growth of the state, and its mores and rules. Reform wants to cut the state and its mores and rules, quite radically in some areas, but extend its role in others.

I also wonder how much of it is simply brought on by necessity. The steelworks of Port Talbot and Scunthorpe cannot exist without Government support of some sort, but that’s not their fault, it's the fault of wretched short-sighted policies over many years. A lot of Reform's recommendations seem to be a last ditch attempt to save these capabilities, rather than committed social democracy.

Either way, I would like (and I think it's more possible now than ever before) to have two party politics with Reform on the left and the Tories on the right. A small state sound money Gladstonian party (Tories) vs. a more interventionist but still very patriotic party (Reform), would rid us of the corrosive effect of the anti-British decision makers who have been running the show for many decades.

Not going to happen, more likely would be LDs on the cultural liberal globalist side and Reform on the cultural right nationalist side if we replace the economic battle of the last century between the Conservatives and Labour with a cultural battle this century.

Though a small Conservative party on the lines you describe could still survive, especially if we have PR, alongside a slightly bigger left of centre Labour party still representing the public sector and students

I was considering the other day that - assuming a bit of shuffling about - we now have four parties in England each of which could comfortably represent one of the sectors in the traditional two-axis economic/cultural political model, rather than the previous model of three parties all fitting rather unsatisfactorily into none of them (i.e. Cons: economically liberal, socially conservative; LDs economically liberal, socially liberal; Reform economically conservative, socially conservative; Lab economically conservative, socially liberal.) I wonder if it will work out that way?

If it breaks into the four quadrants, I'd assume Labour left econ/left cultural, Con right/right, Reform left/right, LD right/left.

The trouble is there are very few people actually interested in econ right, particularly those who are cultural right - they are basically all on PB. That's why the Conservatives are in such a pickle.

This ("very few people actually interested in econ right") is, of course, due to Corbyn winning the argument in 2019

OldKingCole

HYUFD said:

Reform are still seen as more united than Labour and the Tories which helps Farage even now.

If more resignations and backstabbing emerge though the trend will not be his friend

@IanB2 (upthread) compared the position Reform are in now with the early days of the SDP. Looked like the greatest thing since sliced bread for a while, then divisions developed and they didn't. Similar applied to the Liberals in the 60's, and they too had one or two dodgy MP's and what turned out to be a questionable Leader.
While I doubt that Farage has shot any dogs I wouldn't be too surprised if something dodgy about him didn't surface.

theProle

I think a lot depends on what you mean by united.

I'm a Reform voter (a surprisingly rare creature for this board!), I think half of their policies are nonsense on stilts.

I fully expect their fiscal optimism to hit a violent collision with reality when they get elected.

I doubt they will last two terms, particularly if they actually take some of the hard decisions rather than kicking the can.

My hope is that they will fix *some* of the massive problems - particularly immigration. That alone will make it 1000x better than this government, which hasn't found a single problem without making it worse.

The most optimistic part of me hopes that they might go as far as burning the tax code down in its entirety and starting from a blank sheet of paper - their ranks certainly contain people who know it needs doing.

So - are they unified? Not on every detail, but enough on the big picture (particularly immigration) that it doesn't really matter.

LostPassword

Given that Reform are Farage, the question is asking whether Farage is divided against himself. I guess we all struggle to make our minds up sometimes.

Anyone who disagrees with Farage either has to leave or fall into line. Disunity can't be maintained in the same way as it can with proper political parties that aren't a personality cult.

Leon

OldKingCole said:

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I think we got a flavour of division with that silly question about the burqa.

And why is it a silly question?

Multiple Muslim countries have partial or total bans on the burqa: Tunisia, Morocco, Chad, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. Are they evil and Islamophobic? Clearly not

So why have they done this? Because they understand islamism better than us, and they understand the dangerous attitudes that often come with the burqa/niqab

Whereas well meaning woke fools in the UK haven’t got a clue

rottenborough

Bill Kristol: "There's so much hope in liberal circles that winning the House [in 2026] is going to make a huge difference, but I've tried to think actually why is it going to make a huge difference." [32 mins]

Bulwark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8skWRsHrHsE

As he says too many Dems have not come to terms with this is not normal politics anymore and the pendulum will swing back. It is too hard to accept that world seems to have gone.

DecrepiterJohnL

Arise, Sir Sadiq - London's mayor knighted by King
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yg7exvdzwo

IanB2

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I think we got a flavour of division with that silly question about the burqa.

And why is it a silly question?

Multiple Muslim countries have partial or total bans on the burqa: Tunisia, Morocco, Chad, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. Are they evil and Islamophobic? Clearly not

So why have they done this? Because they understand islamism better than us, and they understand the dangerous attitudes that often come with the burqa/niqab

Whereas well meaning woke fools in the UK haven’t got a clue

I don’t think you’re in any position to be pointing fingers at clueless fools.

Leon

theProle said:

I think a lot depends on what you mean by united.

I'm a Reform voter (a surprisingly rare creature for this board!), I think half of their policies are nonsense on stilts.

I fully expect their fiscal optimism to hit a violent collision with reality when they get elected.

I doubt they will last two terms, particularly if they actually take some of the hard decisions rather than kicking the can.

My hope is that they will fix *some* of the massive problems - particularly immigration. That alone will make it 1000x better than this government, which hasn't found a single problem without making it worse.

The most optimistic part of me hopes that they might go as far as burning the tax code down in its entirety and starting from a blank sheet of paper - their ranks certainly contain people who know it needs doing.

So - are they unified? Not on every detail, but enough on the big picture (particularly immigration) that it doesn't really matter.

That’s pretty much where I am too

Many of their policies are incoherent but if they just solve migration/asylum/the blob of the woke, they will do enormous good. Because so many of our problems stem from this

Also, quite simply, every other party has failed and does not deserve yet another chance

Leon

PS @theProle - Reform voters/supporters are not rare on this forum. We’ve got four confirmed and a couple of others adjacent

There are likely more confirmed Reform supporters on here than ardent Tories

viewcode

Roger said:

Luke Tryl seems very adept at getting publicity for himself and his polls but they never seem as relevant or well framed as Yougov's. This one seems completely potty.

It's like casting Billie Piper as The Doctor
It's genuinely stupid but garners clicks

DecrepiterJohnL

Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

Cookie

Leon said:

PS @theProle - Reform voters/supporters are not rare on this forum. We’ve got four confirmed and a couple of others adjacent

There are likely more confirmed Reform supporters on here than ardent Tories

Not rare, but much rarer on here than in the electorate at large.

Though I suspect we are a very middle class subset of the population at large, and if you were to look at VI for middle-class voters only, this board would be very close to representative.

Periodically, some who spend a lot of time in liberal left bubbles express the opinion that the site is 'very right wing'. It really isn't; any decent scan of posts will show a balance of left and right wing voices similar to the population at large. But I can see how that would seem 'very right wing' to those unused to hearing opinions different from their own.

viewcode

Those of you who are interested in AI and its limits may wish to read this paper.
https://xcancel.com/RubenHssd/status/1931389580105925115#m

Nigelb

Roger said:

Luke Tryl seems very adept at getting publicity for himself and his polls but they never seem as relevant or well framed as Yougov's. This one seems completely potty.

To be fair, the fact that there's a comparator - "But in our latest polling from this weekend their net united score has fallen from +15 to 0" - does tell us that recent news has shifted perception of the party in this respect.

And we know from long experience that the united/divided metric has pretty decent correlation with electoral outcomes.

turbotubbs

viewcode said:

Roger said:

Luke Tryl seems very adept at getting publicity for himself and his polls but they never seem as relevant or well framed as Yougov's. This one seems completely potty.

It's like casting Billie Piper as The Doctor
It's genuinely stupid but garners clicks

Of course we don't know if she has been cast as the Dr yet, do we.

ClippP

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Reform are still seen as more united than Labour and the Tories which helps Farage even now.

If more resignations and backstabbing emerge though the trend will not be his friend

@IanB2 (upthread) compared the position Reform are in now with the early days of the SDP. Looked like the greatest thing since sliced bread for a while, then divisions developed and they didn't. Similar applied to the Liberals in the 60's, and they too had one or two dodgy MP's and what turned out to be a questionable Leader.
While I doubt that Farage has shot any dogs I wouldn't be too surprised if something dodgy about him didn't surface.

Or you wouldn't be surprised if it did...?

OldKingCole

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I think we got a flavour of division with that silly question about the burqa.

And why is it a silly question?

Multiple Muslim countries have partial or total bans on the burqa: Tunisia, Morocco, Chad, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. Are they evil and Islamophobic? Clearly not

So why have they done this? Because they understand islamism better than us, and they understand the dangerous attitudes that often come with the burqa/niqab

Whereas well meaning woke fools in the UK haven’t got a clue

Thanks @Leon. And @Cookie.
This well meaning woke fool is not sure if he'd like to line up with some at least of the countries quoted. He's worked with people of all sorts of faiths; one or two have worn the burqa and he isn't comfortable with it, and he's especially unhappy with it in healthcare situations.
But, and it's a big but, he's not in favour of bans. In his experience bans merely encourage people, and what we ought to be doing is educating people not to make it difficult to communicate with them, or them to communicate with others.

Mexicanpete

TheScreamingEagles said:

Taz said:

Nigelb said:

Their economic policies are nonsense, though.
And they're probably united in denial of that.

They just seem to have a random policy generator which throws out stuff. Whether or not it makes sense remains to be seen.

It’s like Liz Truss is Reform’s Chief Policy/Economic Adviser.

They do policy dreamcasts with no consideration for even the remotest economic reality.

Yesterday's blast furnace and deep coal mines pledge would have tugged at the heartstrings of nostalgic South Walians but Farage's pledges had absolutely no bearing on reality or practicality. It's like Trump explaining that his tariffs will bring the Gary steel mill back to Indiana.

rcs1000

Cookie said:

FPT:

HYUFD said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

algarkirk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

turbotubbs said:

Mexicanpete said:

The sun is over the yardarm.

Listening to BBC R4 WATO.

Well, well, well. Today's tame Reform interview involves new Chairman Dr David Bull.

The BBC will be able to string this out to the next GE at this rate.

Isn't that a good thing? Nick Griffen's bubble burst in the headlights of public scrutiny. One appearance on Question Time was all it took.

Surely scrutinising Reform day in, day out until the election is good? Frankly a bit more scrutiny of the Ming Vase might have been good last year,

Took a feckin long time for Griffin's bubble to burst in that case given the BNP had their best ever GE result 7 months later. Obviously the sophisticated UK electorate thought we'll give Nicky Nazi one more chance.
Alternatively Farage took over the xenophobe mantle very soon after, though the disinfectant of sunlight of dozens of QT appearances didn't seem to harm his bubble in the slightest.

That's because he's very good and invariably those he's up against in this scenarios talk more shite than he does.

Griffin/BNP never had electoral appeal. The authoritarian explicitly anti-black explicitly racist far right doesn't.

People are behind the curve. Farage needed to get the support of populist voters and he has. He has clearly moved to the socially conservative centre ground of the broad social democrat consensus, with the addition of a strong closed borders policy. He doesn't have policies that will frighten the horses. He has to survive several years with curently a strong support base, the other parties very feeble and Reform having a very fragile leadership team.

The great need is for Lab/Tory and LD to get their narrative skills up to speed, and tell a much better story than Farage does. And appear more competent and more confident about the electorate.

I don't think that's really an appropriate description. Modern social democracy is about the veneration and growth of the state, and its mores and rules. Reform wants to cut the state and its mores and rules, quite radically in some areas, but extend its role in others.

I also wonder how much of it is simply brought on by necessity. The steelworks of Port Talbot and Scunthorpe cannot exist without Government support of some sort, but that’s not their fault, it's the fault of wretched short-sighted policies over many years. A lot of Reform's recommendations seem to be a last ditch attempt to save these capabilities, rather than committed social democracy.

Either way, I would like (and I think it's more possible now than ever before) to have two party politics with Reform on the left and the Tories on the right. A small state sound money Gladstonian party (Tories) vs. a more interventionist but still very patriotic party (Reform), would rid us of the corrosive effect of the anti-British decision makers who have been running the show for many decades.

Not going to happen, more likely would be LDs on the cultural liberal globalist side and Reform on the cultural right nationalist side if we replace the economic battle of the last century between the Conservatives and Labour with a cultural battle this century.

Though a small Conservative party on the lines you describe could still survive, especially if we have PR, alongside a slightly bigger left of centre Labour party still representing the public sector and students

I was considering the other day that - assuming a bit of shuffling about - we now have four parties in England each of which could comfortably represent one of the sectors in the traditional two-axis economic/cultural political model, rather than the previous model of three parties all fitting rather unsatisfactorily into none of them (i.e. Cons: economically liberal, socially conservative; LDs economically liberal, socially liberal; Reform economically conservative, socially conservative; Lab economically conservative, socially liberal.) I wonder if it will work out that way?

It's imperfect, but it's certainly heading in that direction

Cookie

HYUFD said:

Cookie said:

FPT:

HYUFD said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

algarkirk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

turbotubbs said:

Mexicanpete said:

The sun is over the yardarm.

Listening to BBC R4 WATO.

Well, well, well. Today's tame Reform interview involves new Chairman Dr David Bull.

The BBC will be able to string this out to the next GE at this rate.

Isn't that a good thing? Nick Griffen's bubble burst in the headlights of public scrutiny. One appearance on Question Time was all it took.

Surely scrutinising Reform day in, day out until the election is good? Frankly a bit more scrutiny of the Ming Vase might have been good last year,

Took a feckin long time for Griffin's bubble to burst in that case given the BNP had their best ever GE result 7 months later. Obviously the sophisticated UK electorate thought we'll give Nicky Nazi one more chance.
Alternatively Farage took over the xenophobe mantle very soon after, though the disinfectant of sunlight of dozens of QT appearances didn't seem to harm his bubble in the slightest.

That's because he's very good and invariably those he's up against in this scenarios talk more shite than he does.

Griffin/BNP never had electoral appeal. The authoritarian explicitly anti-black explicitly racist far right doesn't.

People are behind the curve. Farage needed to get the support of populist voters and he has. He has clearly moved to the socially conservative centre ground of the broad social democrat consensus, with the addition of a strong closed borders policy. He doesn't have policies that will frighten the horses. He has to survive several years with curently a strong support base, the other parties very feeble and Reform having a very fragile leadership team.

The great need is for Lab/Tory and LD to get their narrative skills up to speed, and tell a much better story than Farage does. And appear more competent and more confident about the electorate.

I don't think that's really an appropriate description. Modern social democracy is about the veneration and growth of the state, and its mores and rules. Reform wants to cut the state and its mores and rules, quite radically in some areas, but extend its role in others.

I also wonder how much of it is simply brought on by necessity. The steelworks of Port Talbot and Scunthorpe cannot exist without Government support of some sort, but that’s not their fault, it's the fault of wretched short-sighted policies over many years. A lot of Reform's recommendations seem to be a last ditch attempt to save these capabilities, rather than committed social democracy.

Either way, I would like (and I think it's more possible now than ever before) to have two party politics with Reform on the left and the Tories on the right. A small state sound money Gladstonian party (Tories) vs. a more interventionist but still very patriotic party (Reform), would rid us of the corrosive effect of the anti-British decision makers who have been running the show for many decades.

Not going to happen, more likely would be LDs on the cultural liberal globalist side and Reform on the cultural right nationalist side if we replace the economic battle of the last century between the Conservatives and Labour with a cultural battle this century.

Though a small Conservative party on the lines you describe could still survive, especially if we have PR, alongside a slightly bigger left of centre Labour party still representing the public sector and students

I was considering the other day that - assuming a bit of shuffling about - we now have four parties in England each of which could comfortably represent one of the sectors in the traditional two-axis economic/cultural political model, rather than the previous model of three parties all fitting rather unsatisfactorily into none of them (i.e. Cons: economically liberal, socially conservative; LDs economically liberal, socially liberal; Reform economically conservative, socially conservative; Lab economically conservative, socially liberal.) I wonder if it will work out that way?

You mean economically statist rather than conservative though

Yes, that's a much better way of expressing it. @Eabhal - that's what I meant.

wooliedyed

Ben Habib strongly hinting today that the Integrity Party (or whatever it will be called) is imminent and will feature Rupert Lowe. On both where he's at with launching and if its with Rupert he said 'I don't want to talk about that and you should be very encouraged by that'
Sounds like we will have another parliamentary party shortly.

Sean_F

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

She sounds like a fine teacher.

TheScreamingEagles

turbotubbs said:

viewcode said:

Roger said:

Luke Tryl seems very adept at getting publicity for himself and his polls but they never seem as relevant or well framed as Yougov's. This one seems completely potty.

It's like casting Billie Piper as The Doctor
It's genuinely stupid but garners clicks

Of course we don't know if she has been cast as the Dr yet, do we.

We do, it was officially confirmed on Doctor Who: Unleashed.

Eabhal

Cookie said:

Leon said:

PS @theProle - Reform voters/supporters are not rare on this forum. We’ve got four confirmed and a couple of others adjacent

There are likely more confirmed Reform supporters on here than ardent Tories

Not rare, but much rarer on here than in the electorate at large.

Though I suspect we are a very middle class subset of the population at large, and if you were to look at VI for middle-class voters only, this board would be very close to representative.

Periodically, some who spend a lot of time in liberal left bubbles express the opinion that the site is 'very right wing'. It really isn't; any decent scan of posts will show a balance of left and right wing voices similar to the population at large. But I can see how that would seem 'very right wing' to those unused to hearing opinions different from their own.

PB's centre of gravity is econ right, cultural left. That's not particularly representative of the population.

Eabhal

Cookie said:

HYUFD said:

Cookie said:

FPT:

HYUFD said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

algarkirk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

turbotubbs said:

Mexicanpete said:

The sun is over the yardarm.

Listening to BBC R4 WATO.

Well, well, well. Today's tame Reform interview involves new Chairman Dr David Bull.

The BBC will be able to string this out to the next GE at this rate.

Isn't that a good thing? Nick Griffen's bubble burst in the headlights of public scrutiny. One appearance on Question Time was all it took.

Surely scrutinising Reform day in, day out until the election is good? Frankly a bit more scrutiny of the Ming Vase might have been good last year,

Took a feckin long time for Griffin's bubble to burst in that case given the BNP had their best ever GE result 7 months later. Obviously the sophisticated UK electorate thought we'll give Nicky Nazi one more chance.
Alternatively Farage took over the xenophobe mantle very soon after, though the disinfectant of sunlight of dozens of QT appearances didn't seem to harm his bubble in the slightest.

That's because he's very good and invariably those he's up against in this scenarios talk more shite than he does.

Griffin/BNP never had electoral appeal. The authoritarian explicitly anti-black explicitly racist far right doesn't.

People are behind the curve. Farage needed to get the support of populist voters and he has. He has clearly moved to the socially conservative centre ground of the broad social democrat consensus, with the addition of a strong closed borders policy. He doesn't have policies that will frighten the horses. He has to survive several years with curently a strong support base, the other parties very feeble and Reform having a very fragile leadership team.

The great need is for Lab/Tory and LD to get their narrative skills up to speed, and tell a much better story than Farage does. And appear more competent and more confident about the electorate.

I don't think that's really an appropriate description. Modern social democracy is about the veneration and growth of the state, and its mores and rules. Reform wants to cut the state and its mores and rules, quite radically in some areas, but extend its role in others.

I also wonder how much of it is simply brought on by necessity. The steelworks of Port Talbot and Scunthorpe cannot exist without Government support of some sort, but that’s not their fault, it's the fault of wretched short-sighted policies over many years. A lot of Reform's recommendations seem to be a last ditch attempt to save these capabilities, rather than committed social democracy.

Either way, I would like (and I think it's more possible now than ever before) to have two party politics with Reform on the left and the Tories on the right. A small state sound money Gladstonian party (Tories) vs. a more interventionist but still very patriotic party (Reform), would rid us of the corrosive effect of the anti-British decision makers who have been running the show for many decades.

Not going to happen, more likely would be LDs on the cultural liberal globalist side and Reform on the cultural right nationalist side if we replace the economic battle of the last century between the Conservatives and Labour with a cultural battle this century.

Though a small Conservative party on the lines you describe could still survive, especially if we have PR, alongside a slightly bigger left of centre Labour party still representing the public sector and students

I was considering the other day that - assuming a bit of shuffling about - we now have four parties in England each of which could comfortably represent one of the sectors in the traditional two-axis economic/cultural political model, rather than the previous model of three parties all fitting rather unsatisfactorily into none of them (i.e. Cons: economically liberal, socially conservative; LDs economically liberal, socially liberal; Reform economically conservative, socially conservative; Lab economically conservative, socially liberal.) I wonder if it will work out that way?

You mean economically statist rather than conservative though

Yes, that's a much better way of expressing it. @Eabhal - that's what I meant.

It's tricky because the parties don't actually conform to this categorisation at the moment. It's difficult to work it out - I think age of target voter cohort is just as important as these more principled positions.

Leon

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I think we got a flavour of division with that silly question about the burqa.

And why is it a silly question?

Multiple Muslim countries have partial or total bans on the burqa: Tunisia, Morocco, Chad, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. Are they evil and Islamophobic? Clearly not

So why have they done this? Because they understand islamism better than us, and they understand the dangerous attitudes that often come with the burqa/niqab

Whereas well meaning woke fools in the UK haven’t got a clue

Thanks @Leon. And @Cookie.
This well meaning woke fool is not sure if he'd like to line up with some at least of the countries quoted. He's worked with people of all sorts of faiths; one or two have worn the burqa and he isn't comfortable with it, and he's especially unhappy with it in healthcare situations.
But, and it's a big but, he's not in favour of bans. In his experience bans merely encourage people, and what we ought to be doing is educating people not to make it difficult to communicate with them, or them to communicate with others.

Fair enough, that’s an eloquent explanation of your feelings

However “asking about a burqa ban” is certainly not “a silly question” as you first said. It’s a totally legitimate inquiry

In Central Asia the ban on full face veils is often driven by women politicians and feminist activists. They cherish their relative freedom (one of the few positive legacies of the USSR) and have less than zero desire to be shrouded in these horrific garments

And they know that if they burqa/niqab are allowed a lot of conservative Islamic men WILL start pushing for his. For women to dress “more modestly”. And so their female freedoms will be eroded - as we have seen, tragically, in places like Iran

JosiasJessop

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I think we got a flavour of division with that silly question about the burqa.

And why is it a silly question?

Multiple Muslim countries have partial or total bans on the burqa: Tunisia, Morocco, Chad, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. Are they evil and Islamophobic? Clearly not

So why have they done this? Because they understand islamism better than us, and they understand the dangerous attitudes that often come with the burqa/niqab

Whereas well meaning woke fools in the UK haven’t got a clue

Thanks @Leon. And @Cookie.
This well meaning woke fool is not sure if he'd like to line up with some at least of the countries quoted. He's worked with people of all sorts of faiths; one or two have worn the burqa and he isn't comfortable with it, and he's especially unhappy with it in healthcare situations.
But, and it's a big but, he's not in favour of bans. In his experience bans merely encourage people, and what we ought to be doing is educating people not to make it difficult to communicate with them, or them to communicate with others.

I've mentioned the Turkish experience of their headcovering ban previously (this was not just the burqa/niqab, but also the much less-covering Hijab as well). It did not particular go well for the secularists, or women.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headscarf_controversy_in_Turkey

Not also the differing camps of "Black Turks" and "White Turks".

JosiasJessop

What is this "Reform Party" of which you speak?

Do you mean the latest iteration of the Farage Party?

TheScreamingEagles

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

As my hoodie says

‘Physics gives me a hadron’

david_herdson

Mexicanpete said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Taz said:

Nigelb said:

Their economic policies are nonsense, though.
And they're probably united in denial of that.

They just seem to have a random policy generator which throws out stuff. Whether or not it makes sense remains to be seen.

It’s like Liz Truss is Reform’s Chief Policy/Economic Adviser.

They do policy dreamcasts with no consideration for even the remotest economic reality.

Yesterday's blast furnace and deep coal mines pledge would have tugged at the heartstrings of nostalgic South Walians but Farage's pledges had absolutely no bearing on reality or practicality. It's like Trump explaining that his tariffs will bring the Gary steel mill back to Indiana.

One advantage that Reform's opponents have is that by 2029 we'll have had a decade's Brexit experience, the Liz Truss budget and four more years of Trumpism and its consequences, and adopting all three as policy will have real-world evidence as to why it's quite daft. The electorate has usually been fairly tuned-in on whether economic plans add up or not.

Pagan2

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I think we got a flavour of division with that silly question about the burqa.

And why is it a silly question?

Multiple Muslim countries have partial or total bans on the burqa: Tunisia, Morocco, Chad, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. Are they evil and Islamophobic? Clearly not

So why have they done this? Because they understand islamism better than us, and they understand the dangerous attitudes that often come with the burqa/niqab

Whereas well meaning woke fools in the UK haven’t got a clue

Thanks @Leon. And @Cookie.
This well meaning woke fool is not sure if he'd like to line up with some at least of the countries quoted. He's worked with people of all sorts of faiths; one or two have worn the burqa and he isn't comfortable with it, and he's especially unhappy with it in healthcare situations.
But, and it's a big but, he's not in favour of bans. In his experience bans merely encourage people, and what we ought to be doing is educating people not to make it difficult to communicate with them, or them to communicate with others.

While not in favour of a ban

We had a guy burn a quran in front of the turkish embassy. He was attacked and ended up arrested and prosecuted because it made people feel uncomfortable and harrassed

Would you support it if someone attacks a burqa wearer because they felt uncomfortable and harrassed?

Note I am not suggesting that we should attack burqa wearers in the least, just pointing out I don't see a difference between the two incidents. Personally I think burning a quran should be prosecutable is the way to go.

carnforth

wooliedyed said:

Ben Habib strongly hinting today that the Integrity Party (or whatever it will be called) is imminent and will feature Rupert Lowe. On both where he's at with launching and if its with Rupert he said 'I don't want to talk about that and you should be very encouraged by that'
Sounds like we will have another parliamentary party shortly.

Arf. I note, on that topic, that Gina Miller is running for Chancellor of Fen Poly. Isn't her 15 minutes up?

Cookie

Eabhal said:

Cookie said:

Leon said:

PS @theProle - Reform voters/supporters are not rare on this forum. We’ve got four confirmed and a couple of others adjacent

There are likely more confirmed Reform supporters on here than ardent Tories

Not rare, but much rarer on here than in the electorate at large.

Though I suspect we are a very middle class subset of the population at large, and if you were to look at VI for middle-class voters only, this board would be very close to representative.

Periodically, some who spend a lot of time in liberal left bubbles express the opinion that the site is 'very right wing'. It really isn't; any decent scan of posts will show a balance of left and right wing voices similar to the population at large. But I can see how that would seem 'very right wing' to those unused to hearing opinions different from their own.

PB's centre of gravity is econ right, cultural left. That's not particularly representative of the population.

Hm, fair enough. On a simple left/right axis perhaps we are, but I think you make a reasonable point.

BartholomewRoberts

Pagan2 said:

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I think we got a flavour of division with that silly question about the burqa.

And why is it a silly question?

Multiple Muslim countries have partial or total bans on the burqa: Tunisia, Morocco, Chad, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. Are they evil and Islamophobic? Clearly not

So why have they done this? Because they understand islamism better than us, and they understand the dangerous attitudes that often come with the burqa/niqab

Whereas well meaning woke fools in the UK haven’t got a clue

Thanks @Leon. And @Cookie.
This well meaning woke fool is not sure if he'd like to line up with some at least of the countries quoted. He's worked with people of all sorts of faiths; one or two have worn the burqa and he isn't comfortable with it, and he's especially unhappy with it in healthcare situations.
But, and it's a big but, he's not in favour of bans. In his experience bans merely encourage people, and what we ought to be doing is educating people not to make it difficult to communicate with them, or them to communicate with others.

While not in favour of a ban

We had a guy burn a quran in front of the turkish embassy. He was attacked and ended up arrested and prosecuted because it made people feel uncomfortable and harrassed

Would you support it if someone attacks a burqa wearer because they felt uncomfortable and harrassed?

Note I am not suggesting that we should attack burqa wearers in the least, just pointing out I don't see a difference between the two incidents. Personally I think burning a quran should be prosecutable is the way to go.

So long as you own it, burning a quran, or anything else within safety limits, should be protected free speech.

There should never be a law against offending others.

The right to protest is a valuable one.

wooliedyed

carnforth said:

wooliedyed said:

Ben Habib strongly hinting today that the Integrity Party (or whatever it will be called) is imminent and will feature Rupert Lowe. On both where he's at with launching and if its with Rupert he said 'I don't want to talk about that and you should be very encouraged by that'
Sounds like we will have another parliamentary party shortly.

Arf. I note, on that topic, that Gina Miller is running for Chancellor of Fen Poly. Isn't her 15 minutes up?

Isn't she still running the thingamy and oojit party?

Cookie

Eabhal said:

Cookie said:

HYUFD said:

Cookie said:

FPT:

HYUFD said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

algarkirk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

turbotubbs said:

Mexicanpete said:

The sun is over the yardarm.

Listening to BBC R4 WATO.

Well, well, well. Today's tame Reform interview involves new Chairman Dr David Bull.

The BBC will be able to string this out to the next GE at this rate.

Isn't that a good thing? Nick Griffen's bubble burst in the headlights of public scrutiny. One appearance on Question Time was all it took.

Surely scrutinising Reform day in, day out until the election is good? Frankly a bit more scrutiny of the Ming Vase might have been good last year,

Took a feckin long time for Griffin's bubble to burst in that case given the BNP had their best ever GE result 7 months later. Obviously the sophisticated UK electorate thought we'll give Nicky Nazi one more chance.
Alternatively Farage took over the xenophobe mantle very soon after, though the disinfectant of sunlight of dozens of QT appearances didn't seem to harm his bubble in the slightest.

That's because he's very good and invariably those he's up against in this scenarios talk more shite than he does.

Griffin/BNP never had electoral appeal. The authoritarian explicitly anti-black explicitly racist far right doesn't.

People are behind the curve. Farage needed to get the support of populist voters and he has. He has clearly moved to the socially conservative centre ground of the broad social democrat consensus, with the addition of a strong closed borders policy. He doesn't have policies that will frighten the horses. He has to survive several years with curently a strong support base, the other parties very feeble and Reform having a very fragile leadership team.

The great need is for Lab/Tory and LD to get their narrative skills up to speed, and tell a much better story than Farage does. And appear more competent and more confident about the electorate.

I don't think that's really an appropriate description. Modern social democracy is about the veneration and growth of the state, and its mores and rules. Reform wants to cut the state and its mores and rules, quite radically in some areas, but extend its role in others.

I also wonder how much of it is simply brought on by necessity. The steelworks of Port Talbot and Scunthorpe cannot exist without Government support of some sort, but that’s not their fault, it's the fault of wretched short-sighted policies over many years. A lot of Reform's recommendations seem to be a last ditch attempt to save these capabilities, rather than committed social democracy.

Either way, I would like (and I think it's more possible now than ever before) to have two party politics with Reform on the left and the Tories on the right. A small state sound money Gladstonian party (Tories) vs. a more interventionist but still very patriotic party (Reform), would rid us of the corrosive effect of the anti-British decision makers who have been running the show for many decades.

Not going to happen, more likely would be LDs on the cultural liberal globalist side and Reform on the cultural right nationalist side if we replace the economic battle of the last century between the Conservatives and Labour with a cultural battle this century.

Though a small Conservative party on the lines you describe could still survive, especially if we have PR, alongside a slightly bigger left of centre Labour party still representing the public sector and students

I was considering the other day that - assuming a bit of shuffling about - we now have four parties in England each of which could comfortably represent one of the sectors in the traditional two-axis economic/cultural political model, rather than the previous model of three parties all fitting rather unsatisfactorily into none of them (i.e. Cons: economically liberal, socially conservative; LDs economically liberal, socially liberal; Reform economically conservative, socially conservative; Lab economically conservative, socially liberal.) I wonder if it will work out that way?

You mean economically statist rather than conservative though

Yes, that's a much better way of expressing it. @Eabhal - that's what I meant.

It's tricky because the parties don't actually conform to this categorisation at the moment. It's difficult to work it out - I think age of target voter cohort is just as important as these more principled positions.

Yes, they don't, exactly, at present. But nor are they internally consistent, and nor do they map to obvious bodies of opinion in the country. Perhaps there is an opportunity forthem to do so.

wooliedyed

carnforth said:

wooliedyed said:

Ben Habib strongly hinting today that the Integrity Party (or whatever it will be called) is imminent and will feature Rupert Lowe. On both where he's at with launching and if its with Rupert he said 'I don't want to talk about that and you should be very encouraged by that'
Sounds like we will have another parliamentary party shortly.

Arf. I note, on that topic, that Gina Miller is running for Chancellor of Fen Poly. Isn't her 15 minutes up?

If Lowe does join him though it will at least make Yarmouth a VERY interesting seat in 2029

OldKingCole

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I think we got a flavour of division with that silly question about the burqa.

And why is it a silly question?

Multiple Muslim countries have partial or total bans on the burqa: Tunisia, Morocco, Chad, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. Are they evil and Islamophobic? Clearly not

So why have they done this? Because they understand islamism better than us, and they understand the dangerous attitudes that often come with the burqa/niqab

Whereas well meaning woke fools in the UK haven’t got a clue

Thanks @Leon. And @Cookie.
This well meaning woke fool is not sure if he'd like to line up with some at least of the countries quoted. He's worked with people of all sorts of faiths; one or two have worn the burqa and he isn't comfortable with it, and he's especially unhappy with it in healthcare situations.
But, and it's a big but, he's not in favour of bans. In his experience bans merely encourage people, and what we ought to be doing is educating people not to make it difficult to communicate with them, or them to communicate with others.

Fair enough, that’s an eloquent explanation of your feelings

However “asking about a burqa ban” is certainly not “a silly question” as you first said. It’s a totally legitimate inquiry

In Central Asia the ban on full face veils is often driven by women politicians and feminist activists. They cherish their relative freedom (one of the few positive legacies of the USSR) and have less than zero desire to be shrouded in these horrific garments

And they know that if they burqa/niqab are allowed a lot of conservative Islamic men WILL start pushing for his. For women to dress “more modestly”. And so their female freedoms will be eroded - as we have seen, tragically, in places like Iran

Point noted and taken about women in Central Asia supporting such bans and why. I don't understand what it is about Islam that drives such a repressive attitudes; I don't think it's suggested in the Qu'ran, is it?
The same attitudes as some of those of St Paul.

Pagan2

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I think we got a flavour of division with that silly question about the burqa.

And why is it a silly question?

Multiple Muslim countries have partial or total bans on the burqa: Tunisia, Morocco, Chad, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. Are they evil and Islamophobic? Clearly not

So why have they done this? Because they understand islamism better than us, and they understand the dangerous attitudes that often come with the burqa/niqab

Whereas well meaning woke fools in the UK haven’t got a clue

Thanks @Leon. And @Cookie.
This well meaning woke fool is not sure if he'd like to line up with some at least of the countries quoted. He's worked with people of all sorts of faiths; one or two have worn the burqa and he isn't comfortable with it, and he's especially unhappy with it in healthcare situations.
But, and it's a big but, he's not in favour of bans. In his experience bans merely encourage people, and what we ought to be doing is educating people not to make it difficult to communicate with them, or them to communicate with others.

Fair enough, that’s an eloquent explanation of your feelings

However “asking about a burqa ban” is certainly not “a silly question” as you first said. It’s a totally legitimate inquiry

In Central Asia the ban on full face veils is often driven by women politicians and feminist activists. They cherish their relative freedom (one of the few positive legacies of the USSR) and have less than zero desire to be shrouded in these horrific garments

And they know that if they burqa/niqab are allowed a lot of conservative Islamic men WILL start pushing for his. For women to dress “more modestly”. And so their female freedoms will be eroded - as we have seen, tragically, in places like Iran

Point noted and taken about women in Central Asia supporting such bans and why. I don't understand what it is about Islam that drives such a repressive attitudes; I don't think it's suggested in the Qu'ran, is it?
The same attitudes as some of those of St Paul.

The burqa is more cultural than religous

OldKingCole

Pagan2 said:

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I think we got a flavour of division with that silly question about the burqa.

And why is it a silly question?

Multiple Muslim countries have partial or total bans on the burqa: Tunisia, Morocco, Chad, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. Are they evil and Islamophobic? Clearly not

So why have they done this? Because they understand islamism better than us, and they understand the dangerous attitudes that often come with the burqa/niqab

Whereas well meaning woke fools in the UK haven’t got a clue

Thanks @Leon. And @Cookie.
This well meaning woke fool is not sure if he'd like to line up with some at least of the countries quoted. He's worked with people of all sorts of faiths; one or two have worn the burqa and he isn't comfortable with it, and he's especially unhappy with it in healthcare situations.
But, and it's a big but, he's not in favour of bans. In his experience bans merely encourage people, and what we ought to be doing is educating people not to make it difficult to communicate with them, or them to communicate with others.

Fair enough, that’s an eloquent explanation of your feelings

However “asking about a burqa ban” is certainly not “a silly question” as you first said. It’s a totally legitimate inquiry

In Central Asia the ban on full face veils is often driven by women politicians and feminist activists. They cherish their relative freedom (one of the few positive legacies of the USSR) and have less than zero desire to be shrouded in these horrific garments

And they know that if they burqa/niqab are allowed a lot of conservative Islamic men WILL start pushing for his. For women to dress “more modestly”. And so their female freedoms will be eroded - as we have seen, tragically, in places like Iran

Point noted and taken about women in Central Asia supporting such bans and why. I don't understand what it is about Islam that drives such a repressive attitudes; I don't think it's suggested in the Qu'ran, is it?
The same attitudes as some of those of St Paul.

The burqa is more cultural than religous

Quite. One reason for education.

Pagan2

Pagan2 said:

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I think we got a flavour of division with that silly question about the burqa.

And why is it a silly question?

Multiple Muslim countries have partial or total bans on the burqa: Tunisia, Morocco, Chad, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. Are they evil and Islamophobic? Clearly not

So why have they done this? Because they understand islamism better than us, and they understand the dangerous attitudes that often come with the burqa/niqab

Whereas well meaning woke fools in the UK haven’t got a clue

Thanks @Leon. And @Cookie.
This well meaning woke fool is not sure if he'd like to line up with some at least of the countries quoted. He's worked with people of all sorts of faiths; one or two have worn the burqa and he isn't comfortable with it, and he's especially unhappy with it in healthcare situations.
But, and it's a big but, he's not in favour of bans. In his experience bans merely encourage people, and what we ought to be doing is educating people not to make it difficult to communicate with them, or them to communicate with others.

Fair enough, that’s an eloquent explanation of your feelings

However “asking about a burqa ban” is certainly not “a silly question” as you first said. It’s a totally legitimate inquiry

In Central Asia the ban on full face veils is often driven by women politicians and feminist activists. They cherish their relative freedom (one of the few positive legacies of the USSR) and have less than zero desire to be shrouded in these horrific garments

And they know that if they burqa/niqab are allowed a lot of conservative Islamic men WILL start pushing for his. For women to dress “more modestly”. And so their female freedoms will be eroded - as we have seen, tragically, in places like Iran

Point noted and taken about women in Central Asia supporting such bans and why. I don't understand what it is about Islam that drives such a repressive attitudes; I don't think it's suggested in the Qu'ran, is it?
The same attitudes as some of those of St Paul.

The burqa is more cultural than religous

The problem with the burqa is some women will choose to wear it, some will be forced to wear it. No proof but I suspect the latter is probably the bigger number worldwide. However how do you distinguish between them

turbotubbs

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

viewcode said:

Roger said:

Luke Tryl seems very adept at getting publicity for himself and his polls but they never seem as relevant or well framed as Yougov's. This one seems completely potty.

It's like casting Billie Piper as The Doctor
It's genuinely stupid but garners clicks

Of course we don't know if she has been cast as the Dr yet, do we.

We do, it was officially confirmed on Doctor Who: Unleashed.

Was it? I tend not to watch that.

Cookie

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I think we got a flavour of division with that silly question about the burqa.

And why is it a silly question?

Multiple Muslim countries have partial or total bans on the burqa: Tunisia, Morocco, Chad, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. Are they evil and Islamophobic? Clearly not

So why have they done this? Because they understand islamism better than us, and they understand the dangerous attitudes that often come with the burqa/niqab

Whereas well meaning woke fools in the UK haven’t got a clue

Thanks @Leon. And @Cookie.
This well meaning woke fool is not sure if he'd like to line up with some at least of the countries quoted. He's worked with people of all sorts of faiths; one or two have worn the burqa and he isn't comfortable with it, and he's especially unhappy with it in healthcare situations.
But, and it's a big but, he's not in favour of bans. In his experience bans merely encourage people, and what we ought to be doing is educating people not to make it difficult to communicate with them, or them to communicate with others.

Fair enough, that’s an eloquent explanation of your feelings

However “asking about a burqa ban” is certainly not “a silly question” as you first said. It’s a totally legitimate inquiry

In Central Asia the ban on full face veils is often driven by women politicians and feminist activists. They cherish their relative freedom (one of the few positive legacies of the USSR) and have less than zero desire to be shrouded in these horrific garments

And they know that if they burqa/niqab are allowed a lot of conservative Islamic men WILL start pushing for his. For women to dress “more modestly”. And so their female freedoms will be eroded - as we have seen, tragically, in places like Iran

Point noted and taken about women in Central Asia supporting such bans and why. I don't understand what it is about Islam that drives such a repressive attitudes; I don't think it's suggested in the Qu'ran, is it?
The same attitudes as some of those of St Paul.

It's entirely plausible that it's incidental. It just happens to be the case that those parts of the world most stuck in the middle ages just happen to correspond to the big green blobon the map where Islam predominates.

Pagan2

OldKingCole said:

Pagan2 said:

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

david_herdson said:

As long as Reform is Farage then churn around him won't matter all that much in terms of perception of whether it's united. The impression that it is comes from the lack of evidence to the contrary (hence the hit this week with Yusuf).

But Reform can't always be just Farage and at that point people will start noticing the divisions, splits, resignations and arguments. At some point, Reform are going to have to have some proper policies too; they can't survive forever on opposition and cakeism.

I think we got a flavour of division with that silly question about the burqa.

And why is it a silly question?

Multiple Muslim countries have partial or total bans on the burqa: Tunisia, Morocco, Chad, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. Are they evil and Islamophobic? Clearly not

So why have they done this? Because they understand islamism better than us, and they understand the dangerous attitudes that often come with the burqa/niqab

Whereas well meaning woke fools in the UK haven’t got a clue

Thanks @Leon. And @Cookie.
This well meaning woke fool is not sure if he'd like to line up with some at least of the countries quoted. He's worked with people of all sorts of faiths; one or two have worn the burqa and he isn't comfortable with it, and he's especially unhappy with it in healthcare situations.
But, and it's a big but, he's not in favour of bans. In his experience bans merely encourage people, and what we ought to be doing is educating people not to make it difficult to communicate with them, or them to communicate with others.

Fair enough, that’s an eloquent explanation of your feelings

However “asking about a burqa ban” is certainly not “a silly question” as you first said. It’s a totally legitimate inquiry

In Central Asia the ban on full face veils is often driven by women politicians and feminist activists. They cherish their relative freedom (one of the few positive legacies of the USSR) and have less than zero desire to be shrouded in these horrific garments

And they know that if they burqa/niqab are allowed a lot of conservative Islamic men WILL start pushing for his. For women to dress “more modestly”. And so their female freedoms will be eroded - as we have seen, tragically, in places like Iran

Point noted and taken about women in Central Asia supporting such bans and why. I don't understand what it is about Islam that drives such a repressive attitudes; I don't think it's suggested in the Qu'ran, is it?
The same attitudes as some of those of St Paul.

The burqa is more cultural than religous

Quite. One reason for education.

Where the burqa is culturally enforced I suspect education of women is somewhat of a non priority

Andy_JS

New Sean Thomas article in the Spectator.

"How a Luxembourg village divided Europe
The continent was redefined by Schengen" (£)

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-schengen-divided-europe/

Pagan2

I would like to see a burqa ban in schools and public sector jobs personally. I would also say wearing a burqa should be a reasonable reason not to employ someone

carnforth

wooliedyed said:

carnforth said:

wooliedyed said:

Ben Habib strongly hinting today that the Integrity Party (or whatever it will be called) is imminent and will feature Rupert Lowe. On both where he's at with launching and if its with Rupert he said 'I don't want to talk about that and you should be very encouraged by that'
Sounds like we will have another parliamentary party shortly.

Arf. I note, on that topic, that Gina Miller is running for Chancellor of Fen Poly. Isn't her 15 minutes up?

Isn't she still running the thingamy and oojit party?

Naturally:

"She was her party's candidate for Epsom and Ewell for the 2024 general election. Miller was not elected, coming sixth out of the seven candidates and achieving a 1.5 per cent vote share, thereby losing her deposit."

DecrepiterJohnL

Sean_F said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

She sounds like a fine teacher.

Ironic that on the same day PB is overrun by complaints about burqas, a teacher is struck off for showing too much flesh.

Pulpstar

wooliedyed said:

carnforth said:

wooliedyed said:

Ben Habib strongly hinting today that the Integrity Party (or whatever it will be called) is imminent and will feature Rupert Lowe. On both where he's at with launching and if its with Rupert he said 'I don't want to talk about that and you should be very encouraged by that'
Sounds like we will have another parliamentary party shortly.

Arf. I note, on that topic, that Gina Miller is running for Chancellor of Fen Poly. Isn't her 15 minutes up?

If Lowe does join him though it will at least make Yarmouth a VERY interesting seat in 2029

Easy hold for Lowe I reckon. He'll be the sole representative for his nascent party though

Pagan2

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Sean_F said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

She sounds like a fine teacher.

Ironic that on the same day PB is overrun by complaints about burqas, a teacher is struck off for showing too much flesh.

I haven't complained about her showing too much I would have preferred her to the sour faced guy that was my physics teacher at school who made the subject duller than ditchwater

DecrepiterJohnL

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

Big Bang theory is wrong, claim scientists
Universe did not spring from nothing but is part of a cosmic cycle of gravity collapse and black holes, says [sic] researchers
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/10/big-bang-theory-is-wrong-claim-scientists/ (£££)

The real reason the physics teacher lost it.

Article should be viewable via gift at:-
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/7046e84fb8c97642

BartholomewRoberts

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Sean_F said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

She sounds like a fine teacher.

Ironic that on the same day PB is overrun by complaints about burqas, a teacher is struck off for showing too much flesh.

I have no qualms with people showing too much flesh.

The fact she was advertising herself as a teacher though is disreputable.

There should be a clear, professional boundary.

Phil

Has this been posted?

“Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1

Pagan2

DecrepiterJohnL said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

Big Bang theory is wrong, claim scientists
Universe did not spring from nothing but is part of a cosmic cycle of gravity collapse and black holes, says [sic] researchers
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/10/big-bang-theory-is-wrong-claim-scientists/ (£££)

The real reason the physics teacher lost it.

Article should be viewable via gift at:-
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/7046e84fb8c97642

If they were creative they could have moved her to sex education

turbotubbs

turbotubbs said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

viewcode said:

Roger said:

Luke Tryl seems very adept at getting publicity for himself and his polls but they never seem as relevant or well framed as Yougov's. This one seems completely potty.

It's like casting Billie Piper as The Doctor
It's genuinely stupid but garners clicks

Of course we don't know if she has been cast as the Dr yet, do we.

We do, it was officially confirmed on Doctor Who: Unleashed.

Was it? I tend not to watch that.

I'm not sure this is true - Gallifrey Base is still debating it, so surely if it was obviously settled, it wouldn't be.

wooliedyed

Pulpstar said:

wooliedyed said:

carnforth said:

wooliedyed said:

Ben Habib strongly hinting today that the Integrity Party (or whatever it will be called) is imminent and will feature Rupert Lowe. On both where he's at with launching and if its with Rupert he said 'I don't want to talk about that and you should be very encouraged by that'
Sounds like we will have another parliamentary party shortly.

Arf. I note, on that topic, that Gina Miller is running for Chancellor of Fen Poly. Isn't her 15 minutes up?

If Lowe does join him though it will at least make Yarmouth a VERY interesting seat in 2029

Easy hold for Lowe I reckon. He'll be the sole representative for his nascent party though

It depends how split his vote is with Reform. Tories and Labour will both be sniffing round the 20 to 30 area too. 28% could take the seat.
They'll have no problem fielding a full slate in the 9 Norfolk county council seats that make up GY next May which might give us a flavour

Malmesbury

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Sean_F said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

She sounds like a fine teacher.

Ironic that on the same day PB is overrun by complaints about burqas, a teacher is struck off for showing too much flesh.

I haven't complained about her showing too much I would have preferred her to the sour faced guy that was my physics teacher at school who made the subject duller than ditchwater

Perhaps the issue is the extremes of clothing?

A centrist kind of position?

OldKingCole

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Sean_F said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

She sounds like a fine teacher.

Ironic that on the same day PB is overrun by complaints about burqas, a teacher is struck off for showing too much flesh.

I haven't complained about her showing too much I would have preferred her to the sour faced guy that was my physics teacher at school who made the subject duller than ditchwater

Must be something about male physics teachers. Mine was one of the least inspiring people I've ever met.

TheScreamingEagles

turbotubbs said:

turbotubbs said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

viewcode said:

Roger said:

Luke Tryl seems very adept at getting publicity for himself and his polls but they never seem as relevant or well framed as Yougov's. This one seems completely potty.

It's like casting Billie Piper as The Doctor
It's genuinely stupid but garners clicks

Of course we don't know if she has been cast as the Dr yet, do we.

We do, it was officially confirmed on Doctor Who: Unleashed.

Was it? I tend not to watch that.

I'm not sure this is true - Gallifrey Base is still debating it, so surely if it was obviously settled, it wouldn't be.

There was a bonus episode of Doctor Who: Unleashed on Saturday.

Pagan2

Malmesbury said:

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Sean_F said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

She sounds like a fine teacher.

Ironic that on the same day PB is overrun by complaints about burqas, a teacher is struck off for showing too much flesh.

I haven't complained about her showing too much I would have preferred her to the sour faced guy that was my physics teacher at school who made the subject duller than ditchwater

Perhaps the issue is the extremes of clothing?

A centrist kind of position?

As I understand her clothing wasn't extreme as she wasnt wearing any

rcs1000

Taz said:

Nigelb said:

Hello

I'm not sure most voters have any real grasp of whether Reform is united or not.
I'm moderately well informed and don't really have a strong opinion on it.

The only two things I’ve seen is the spat between Lowe and Farage and Yusuf flouncing then returning.

I’d say they were far from united.

They are comletely united: it's Farage's way or the highway.

The issue is that people who work with Farage don't tend to stay working for Farage. There's a massive list of people who have ended up falling out with him, from Alan Sked to Zia Yusuf (A to Z!).

In this way, he's very different to Trump. There are no long term people who have lived in Farage's orbit for decades, and who have oaths of personal loyalty to him.

So; it's a very interesting question how Farage would govern in a parliamentary system, given his inability to get on with people for long periods of time.

turbotubbs

Phil said:

Has this been posted?

“Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1

As expected, really. Reform are the catch-all 'my life is shit, this party is NOTA'.

DecrepiterJohnL

OldKingCole said:

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Sean_F said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

She sounds like a fine teacher.

Ironic that on the same day PB is overrun by complaints about burqas, a teacher is struck off for showing too much flesh.

I haven't complained about her showing too much I would have preferred her to the sour faced guy that was my physics teacher at school who made the subject duller than ditchwater

Must be something about male physics teachers. Mine was one of the least inspiring people I've ever met.

The one thing I’ve learned in my life is never to pay any attention to what the physicists say – Linus Pauling.

turbotubbs

OldKingCole said:

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Sean_F said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

She sounds like a fine teacher.

Ironic that on the same day PB is overrun by complaints about burqas, a teacher is struck off for showing too much flesh.

I haven't complained about her showing too much I would have preferred her to the sour faced guy that was my physics teacher at school who made the subject duller than ditchwater

Must be something about male physics teachers. Mine was one of the least inspiring people I've ever met.

Two stick in my mind. One, known as captain caveman because of his hirsute look, infamously revealed far too much when running the 800m at the school sports day. The shorts were not covering what they should have.
The other was so diffident that even at Grammar School he couldn't maintain class discipline and had a breakdown. Which was a shame as he was a good teacher on his day.

OldKingCole

turbotubbs said:

Phil said:

Has this been posted?

“Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1

As expected, really. Reform are the catch-all 'my life is shit, this party is NOTA'.

Was the spadework done after the U turn on the WFA?

Pagan2

turbotubbs said:

Phil said:

Has this been posted?

“Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1

As expected, really. Reform are the catch-all 'my life is shit, this party is NOTA'.

But around 70% of peoples lives are shit....they are going to be the next government therefore....the number of people that think most lives are shit are reserved to people who mostly interact with people like themselves....here being an example....pretty much everyone here is rich

algarkirk

Phil said:

Has this been posted?

“Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1

And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.

turbotubbs

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

turbotubbs said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

viewcode said:

Roger said:

Luke Tryl seems very adept at getting publicity for himself and his polls but they never seem as relevant or well framed as Yougov's. This one seems completely potty.

It's like casting Billie Piper as The Doctor
It's genuinely stupid but garners clicks

Of course we don't know if she has been cast as the Dr yet, do we.

We do, it was officially confirmed on Doctor Who: Unleashed.

Was it? I tend not to watch that.

I'm not sure this is true - Gallifrey Base is still debating it, so surely if it was obviously settled, it wouldn't be.

There was a bonus episode of Doctor Who: Unleashed on Saturday.

Was it explicitly said that she is the next doctor then? Because there seems much debate that she might be akin to Tennant (i.e. an episode or two before the real one shows up)

rcs1000

Andy_JS said:

New Sean Thomas article in the Spectator.

"How a Luxembourg village divided Europe
The continent was redefined by Schengen" (£)

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-schengen-divided-europe/

Personally, I think the Swiss have this right: in Schengen, but not in the EU. I realize it's a minority view.

Pagan2

algarkirk said:

Phil said:

Has this been posted?

“Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1

And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.

Lifes losers....you mean all those people not on six figure salaries

TheScreamingEagles

turbotubbs said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

turbotubbs said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

viewcode said:

Roger said:

Luke Tryl seems very adept at getting publicity for himself and his polls but they never seem as relevant or well framed as Yougov's. This one seems completely potty.

It's like casting Billie Piper as The Doctor
It's genuinely stupid but garners clicks

Of course we don't know if she has been cast as the Dr yet, do we.

We do, it was officially confirmed on Doctor Who: Unleashed.

Was it? I tend not to watch that.

I'm not sure this is true - Gallifrey Base is still debating it, so surely if it was obviously settled, it wouldn't be.

There was a bonus episode of Doctor Who: Unleashed on Saturday.

Was it explicitly said that she is the next doctor then? Because there seems much debate that she might be akin to Tennant (i.e. an episode or two before the real one shows up)

Not explicitly but it felt a long term stint.

algarkirk

Pagan2 said:

Malmesbury said:

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Sean_F said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

She sounds like a fine teacher.

Ironic that on the same day PB is overrun by complaints about burqas, a teacher is struck off for showing too much flesh.

I haven't complained about her showing too much I would have preferred her to the sour faced guy that was my physics teacher at school who made the subject duller than ditchwater

Perhaps the issue is the extremes of clothing?

A centrist kind of position?

As I understand her clothing wasn't extreme as she wasnt wearing any

Her quote is lovely poetry:

She said: "I didn't want to leave my job,
but I also had to make more money.
I even had other jobs
before going down the OnlyFans road –
I worked in Tesco,
I worked as an elf at a Braehead Christmas event.

Taz

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

turbotubbs said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

viewcode said:

Roger said:

Luke Tryl seems very adept at getting publicity for himself and his polls but they never seem as relevant or well framed as Yougov's. This one seems completely potty.

It's like casting Billie Piper as The Doctor
It's genuinely stupid but garners clicks

Of course we don't know if she has been cast as the Dr yet, do we.

We do, it was officially confirmed on Doctor Who: Unleashed.

Was it? I tend not to watch that.

I'm not sure this is true - Gallifrey Base is still debating it, so surely if it was obviously settled, it wouldn't be.

There was a bonus episode of Doctor Who: Unleashed on Saturday.

‘Bonus’ !!

Scott_xP

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

turbotubbs said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

viewcode said:

Roger said:

Luke Tryl seems very adept at getting publicity for himself and his polls but they never seem as relevant or well framed as Yougov's. This one seems completely potty.

It's like casting Billie Piper as The Doctor
It's genuinely stupid but garners clicks

Of course we don't know if she has been cast as the Dr yet, do we.

We do, it was officially confirmed on Doctor Who: Unleashed.

Was it? I tend not to watch that.

I'm not sure this is true - Gallifrey Base is still debating it, so surely if it was obviously settled, it wouldn't be.

There was a bonus episode of Doctor Who: Unleashed on Saturday.

Was it explicitly said that she is the next doctor then? Because there seems much debate that she might be akin to Tennant (i.e. an episode or two before the real one shows up)

Not explicitly but it felt a long term stint.

Every season since Rose 'left' has been a dream...

She was the Doctor all along, Dallas stylee

scampi25

Taz said:

Nigelb said:

Their economic policies are nonsense, though.
And they're probably united in denial of that.

They just seem to have a random policy generator which throws out stuff. Whether or not it makes sense remains to be seen.

How is that any different from the rest?

Pagan2

algarkirk said:

Pagan2 said:

Malmesbury said:

Pagan2 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Sean_F said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Teacher struck off after pupils saw her explicit OnlyFans page
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgnxe2lvgo

There is a vacancy for a physics teacher in Scotland.

She sounds like a fine teacher.

Ironic that on the same day PB is overrun by complaints about burqas, a teacher is struck off for showing too much flesh.

I haven't complained about her showing too much I would have preferred her to the sour faced guy that was my physics teacher at school who made the subject duller than ditchwater

Perhaps the issue is the extremes of clothing?

A centrist kind of position?

As I understand her clothing wasn't extreme as she wasnt wearing any

Her quote is lovely poetry:

She said: "I didn't want to leave my job,
but I also had to make more money.
I even had other jobs
before going down the OnlyFans road –
I worked in Tesco,
I worked as an elf at a Braehead Christmas event.

Well you might call it poetry most would just say fuck off she is telling it like it is for most people

Taz

scampi25 said:

Taz said:

Nigelb said:

Their economic policies are nonsense, though.
And they're probably united in denial of that.

They just seem to have a random policy generator which throws out stuff. Whether or not it makes sense remains to be seen.

How is that any different from the rest?

True, it is probably no different. Certainly the Lib Dem’s are in a similar vein.

Phil

Pagan2 said:

algarkirk said:

Phil said:

Has this been posted?

“Really fascinating looking at voting intention by life satisfaction: Both the Green Party and Reform do much better with people with lower life satisfaction, Labour is only convincingly ahead with people who rate their life satisfaction at 10/10” - Ed Hodgson https://x.com/edhodgsoned/status/1932102321796005937/photo/1

And Reform is well ahead among life's losers - those scoring 0/10. No other party comes close. It's a USP of sorts, but not one to admire.

Lifes losers....you mean all those people not on six figure salaries

In the replies, Ed gives the breakdown of the distribution of people reporting life satisfaction values from 0-10 as follows:

0/10 - 4%
1/10 - 2%
2/10 - 4%
3/10 - 6%
4/10 - 6%
5/10 - 13%
6/10 - 13%
7/10 - 21%
8/10 - 18%
9/10 - 6%
10/10 - 5%

So 0-4/10 is ~20% of the population. The other 80% will be mostly on fairly normal salaries - a six figure household income would put you in the top 20% of households by income.