Why have we renamed them that? Do they live in the hospitals?
Often they will be given a room when working nights but the reason for the name change is probably some woke twerps grew up watching Scrubs and House and decided the American term resident is better than junior hospital or Foundation doctor which replaced Houseman which was sexist or some such. Americans use Attending where we say Consultant but probably our version sounds more impressive so expect it to stick.
I think the use of Junior when the person could have 20 years experience is one reason to drop it.
Perhaps, but then the old HO, SHO, Registrar, Consultant progression made sense to those who cared. Foundation sounds too basic, like Junior, and Resident makes no real sense.
Though in your game universities have increasingly gone American and redesignated lecturers as assistant professors.
As one of my old lecturers said when it was being debated, I'd rather have an extra ten grand a year and they can call me Funny-face.
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
The core problem is that every time there's a crime we have a bunch of racists desperate for the perp to be not white so they can kick off.
This makes it hard for any general 'policy' to be implemented.
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
Yes, if this happens - and like you I suspect it will - then the police have just made it all worse
Such a strange issue. To be honest I can see why they announced “white British” because, let’s be fair, it’s white British who are likely to riot if it’s a Muslim or an immigrant, which most of these types of attacks with cars as weapons are. Had they described Axel Rudakabana as “Black British” I’d have thought it a bit unnecessary to mention his race to be honest. Obviously calling him “Welsh” seemed like a bit of a red herring
But as you and @boulay say, from now on, every time they don’t say ‘white British’ it’s probably going to be used as justification for aggro
Stop the proxy wars. Which means persuading America, Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and whoever else to stop the proxy wars. That way there'd be far fewer men of military age escaping them by coming to Dover.
There is absolutely no question about paying for all of Nigel's freebies. I seem to remember affordability of a Labour programme was the key argument against Labour before the last election.
The media love to create a news story so I suspect it is all hands on deck to deliver a Reform government.
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
Yes, if this happens - and like you I suspect it will - then the police have just made it all worse
Such a strange issue. To be honest I can see why they announced “white British” because, let’s be fair, it’s white British who are likely to riot if it’s a Muslim or an immigrant, which most of these types of attacks with cars as weapons are. Had they described Axel Rudakabana as “Black British” I’d have thought it a bit unnecessary to mention his race to be honest. Obviously calling him “Welsh” seemed like a bit of a red herring
But as you and @boulay say, from now on, every time they don’t say ‘white British’ it’s probably going to be used as justification for aggro
It's a completely stupid situation the police have got themselves into. Just be honest from the get go and call a spade a spade. Every time there's a sense that the police and politicians are covering up for suspected terrorists they're risking riots, get ahead of it, release the information and charge the fuckers and deport them and any associates.
Until they start deporting these terrorists and criminals the public at large will see the police and politicians as being on the side of the criminals rather than protecting us from them.
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
Yes, if this happens - and like you I suspect it will - then the police have just made it all worse
Such a strange issue. To be honest I can see why they announced “white British” because, let’s be fair, it’s white British who are likely to riot if it’s a Muslim or an immigrant, which most of these types of attacks with cars as weapons are. Had they described Axel Rudakabana as “Black British” I’d have thought it a bit unnecessary to mention his race to be honest. Obviously calling him “Welsh” seemed like a bit of a red herring
But as you and @boulay say, from now on, every time they don’t say ‘white British’ it’s probably going to be used as justification for aggro
The only answer now is total transparency, unless there really ARE " operational reasons" - ie an ongoing terror hunt for more suspects
So if the perp is white British, black British, tartan British, Muslim refugee, white Russian spy, Kurdish Martian genderqueer with freckles, then just say it. And cope with the aftermath
There is absolutely no question about paying for all of Nigel's freebies. I seem to remember affordability of a Labour programme was the key argument against Labour before the last election.
The media love to create a news story so I suspect it is all hands on deck to deliver a Reform government.
Not sure Nigel would want that just yet. Far better for Reform to remain the anti-establishment insurgents for now. If they start becoming media darlings then the Great British public might start to bristle.
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
Yes, if this happens - and like you I suspect it will - then the police have just made it all worse
Such a strange issue. To be honest I can see why they announced “white British” because, let’s be fair, it’s white British who are likely to riot if it’s a Muslim or an immigrant, which most of these types of attacks with cars as weapons are. Had they described Axel Rudakabana as “Black British” I’d have thought it a bit unnecessary to mention his race to be honest. Obviously calling him “Welsh” seemed like a bit of a red herring
But as you and @boulay say, from now on, every time they don’t say ‘white British’ it’s probably going to be used as justification for aggro
It's a completely stupid situation the police have got themselves into. Just be honest from the get go and call a spade a spade. Every time there's a sense that the police and politicians are covering up for suspected terrorists they're risking riots, get ahead of it, release the information and charge the fuckers and deport them and any associates.
Until they start deporting these terrorists and criminals the public at large will see the police and politicians as being on the side of the criminals rather than protecting us from them.
I absolutely agree but, uhm, I'm not sure "call a spade a spade" is quite the phrase you want, for this argument
Why have we renamed them that? Do they live in the hospitals?
Often they will be given a room when working nights but the reason for the name change is probably some woke twerps grew up watching Scrubs and House and decided the American term resident is better than junior hospital or Foundation doctor which replaced Houseman which was sexist or some such. Americans use Attending where we say Consultant but probably our version sounds more impressive so expect it to stick.
I think the use of Junior when the person could have 20 years experience is one reason to drop it.
Perhaps, but then the old HO, SHO, Registrar, Consultant progression made sense to those who cared. Foundation sounds too basic, like Junior, and Resident makes no real sense.
Though in your game universities have increasingly gone American and redesignated lecturers as assistant professors.
As one of my old lecturers said when it was being debated, I'd rather have an extra ten grand a year and they can call me Funny-face.
Yep - at Bath we are allowed to refer to ourselves as assistant/associate professors (equating to Lecturer/Senior Lecturer), particularly when talking to people outside of the UK.
Everyone seems to have an opinion on whether films have become "too woke" but what happens when we try to measure it using actual data. Can we see shifts? How do they correlate with outcomes? https://stephenfollows.com/p/measuring-if-movies-are-too-woke
For the first time my gut is saying that this Labour Government is heading for disaster.
I get the political argument for reversing the WFA changes but they’re pretty naive if they think this will be the start. The MPs will come back for more. And who is this policy change going to win back anyway? Surely it’s too late now. Fundamentally I still think the original policy was right.
The 2 child limit, who is this change designed to win over? It’s curious that Farage is proposing also to scrap it but I just can’t think instinctively this is the right policy to win back anyone either.
HL has said investor confidence in the UK has risen after April which is encouraging but will the strong growth in Q1 really be sustained? I worry that the champagne is being popped without much evidence of a long term trend.
Labour runs the risk of doing the same as Biden, where the economy is strong on the numbers but working people feel nothing has changed. That is where Farage will be in a strong position.
There was some good news about Albania being willing to take failed asylum seekers but how does one become a failed asylum seeker? Shouldn’t be we processing people offshore instead of sending failed ones there? Maybe it’s just the start but it just didn’t feel like a convincing enough idea for me. We need an offshore processing centre and fast.
Still many years to go and that but Farage is starting to give me the Boris Johnson feeling, that he’s winning over working class voters who aren’t going to go back to Labour. And Labour is thinking they will never vote for him. Feels a bit like 2019 all over again.
Labour has the levers. But I’m more sceptical than I was that they know which to pull.
You are right i think to sense disaster approaching. PIP is the flashpoint. With 100 to 150 at least threatening to rebel and frontbenchers on resignation watch the U turns on WFA and two kids will only harden that rebellion and increase its number. If he three line whips the vote it could be the end of at least Starmer, Reeves and Kendall. If he u turns or waters down then nothing will have credibility going forwards
Worth keeping an eye on proposed reforms to SEND in education too. That's going to be a real mess because the government's proposals would require legislative changes and they would undoubtedly be controversial.
Whats your take on this @ydoethur ? My high school had a SEND unit bolted onto the school - kids would attend normal classes where they could thanks to additional staff and resources.
My general impression is that schools don't have enough staff and resources to function even with 0 SEND kids. In reality we're much better at diagnosing things like Autism which was largely ignored previously which requires more resources not less.
If we actually resourced schools properly with a generous provision of teaching and support staff, could we remove some of the specialist / emergency SEND spending which all seems to be delivered on a postcode lottery basis?
Everything is possible if resourced well enough. But there is no field I can think of which is not wanting massively extra resource, especially the costly ones - NHS, welfare, education, defence, housing.
So 'more resource' is the question, not the answer.
Whatever you give them it will never be enough, or they will say it isn’t.
Yes. There is a really simple public discussion which politicians love to shy away from. It goes something like this:
Total State Managed Expenditure is somewhere between 40 and 45% of the total expenditure of the state. Every extra bit of spending involves a cut somewhere else. Nearly all of it goes on the stuff lots of people think essential, like NHS. 'Efficiency' savings are real but marginal in effect. To fund all this we already borrow £150 bn per annum, with the result that interest on this costs £100 bn and rising. Everyone thinks they are already taxed too highly.
Now start the discussion and make your suggestions......
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
It's obvious why they had to do it. And it's been remarkable the change in language online as a result - "road rage", "he panicked", "scared for his life", "a car hit pedestrians" (rather than "a driver").
You wouldn't phrase it like that for someone slashing people in a pub with a knife, and you certainly wouldn't be calling it road rage if it was a recent small boat Muslim immigrant. Perversely, prejudice against Liverpool fans was the response once the ethnicity was known.
But the statement has rather implied that rioting would be justified if it wasn't a white British man. That's why I'm uneasy with it.
Glad you raised this because I thought I was alone in it. The notion that the main problem with those white racist riots was they were driven by misinformation. Because the truth was it wasn't a Syrian it was a Brit!
Well, ok, but the implication (if we're not careful) is they'd have been perfectly understandable if it hadn't been a Brit. Which is not a great road to go down.
Exactly. And @bondegezou has been trying to persuade us they're just three star hotels with bad saunas
In fact, as Farage has just proved, these illegal aliens are living in FIVE STAR hotels
Tommeh will be on about 6 star hotels next.
Thing is, with this government, I can actually believe it
This is a government willing to pay £30bn to a random foreign country to take British territory, for no reason
So if I heard that Hampton Court Palace was being turned into an asylum seeker "house of multiple occupancy", complete with butlers and equerries, I wouldn't immediately discount it
So the Tories will be the 5th biggest party, in danger of a cunning policy move from Mebyon Kernow, which would put them into 6th
Looks like the 10 seats the Tories would win are:
Harrow E Ruislip Croydon S East Grinstead Epping Forest Hertsmere Beaconsfield Windsor Earley & Woodley (a gain from Labour oddly enough) Stone (Gavin Williamson's seat, so he'd probably be leader)
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
The core problem is that every time there's a crime we have a bunch of racists desperate for the perp to be not white so they can kick off.
This makes it hard for any general 'policy' to be implemented.
There are also plenty who hope the “perp” is a white far right person so they can kick off or feel virtuous.
Or those who support other football teams hoping it was by fans of a team they hate so they can use it as a stick whilst confirming their prejudices.
For the first time my gut is saying that this Labour Government is heading for disaster.
I get the political argument for reversing the WFA changes but they’re pretty naive if they think this will be the start. The MPs will come back for more. And who is this policy change going to win back anyway? Surely it’s too late now. Fundamentally I still think the original policy was right.
The 2 child limit, who is this change designed to win over? It’s curious that Farage is proposing also to scrap it but I just can’t think instinctively this is the right policy to win back anyone either.
HL has said investor confidence in the UK has risen after April which is encouraging but will the strong growth in Q1 really be sustained? I worry that the champagne is being popped without much evidence of a long term trend.
Labour runs the risk of doing the same as Biden, where the economy is strong on the numbers but working people feel nothing has changed. That is where Farage will be in a strong position.
There was some good news about Albania being willing to take failed asylum seekers but how does one become a failed asylum seeker? Shouldn’t be we processing people offshore instead of sending failed ones there? Maybe it’s just the start but it just didn’t feel like a convincing enough idea for me. We need an offshore processing centre and fast.
Still many years to go and that but Farage is starting to give me the Boris Johnson feeling, that he’s winning over working class voters who aren’t going to go back to Labour. And Labour is thinking they will never vote for him. Feels a bit like 2019 all over again.
Labour has the levers. But I’m more sceptical than I was that they know which to pull.
You are right i think to sense disaster approaching. PIP is the flashpoint. With 100 to 150 at least threatening to rebel and frontbenchers on resignation watch the U turns on WFA and two kids will only harden that rebellion and increase its number. If he three line whips the vote it could be the end of at least Starmer, Reeves and Kendall. If he u turns or waters down then nothing will have credibility going forwards
Worth keeping an eye on proposed reforms to SEND in education too. That's going to be a real mess because the government's proposals would require legislative changes and they would undoubtedly be controversial.
Whats your take on this @ydoethur ? My high school had a SEND unit bolted onto the school - kids would attend normal classes where they could thanks to additional staff and resources.
My general impression is that schools don't have enough staff and resources to function even with 0 SEND kids. In reality we're much better at diagnosing things like Autism which was largely ignored previously which requires more resources not less.
If we actually resourced schools properly with a generous provision of teaching and support staff, could we remove some of the specialist / emergency SEND spending which all seems to be delivered on a postcode lottery basis?
IIRC Isn't an awful lot of the growth in LEA SEND spend taxis, because lots and lots of SEND kids are deemed unable to walk to school/use the regular school bus? Clamping down on this and spending the cash on actual education sounds like it could be a win/win for virtually everyone except the taxi firms.
Any evidence to back that up - that isn’t what the data I have shows?
Not a lot of data (it may exist, but I'm not sure where to find it) but it's definitely been in the mood music.
This suggests that costs have doubled since 2018-19.
In the context of the total schools budget (£63Bn), SEND transport is about 2.4%, which may not sound like much, but because there hasn't been a corresponding increase in the block grant it's really hurting LEA finances.
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
The core problem is that every time there's a crime we have a bunch of racists desperate for the perp to be not white so they can kick off.
This makes it hard for any general 'policy' to be implemented.
You can't see that the only fair way to do it is to release the same amount of information no matter who it is? Releasing very little information would be okay if that was applied to everyone for example. I'd probably be in favour of that. Not much information until someone is charged.
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
Yes, if this happens - and like you I suspect it will - then the police have just made it all worse
Such a strange issue. To be honest I can see why they announced “white British” because, let’s be fair, it’s white British who are likely to riot if it’s a Muslim or an immigrant, which most of these types of attacks with cars as weapons are. Had they described Axel Rudakabana as “Black British” I’d have thought it a bit unnecessary to mention his race to be honest. Obviously calling him “Welsh” seemed like a bit of a red herring
But as you and @boulay say, from now on, every time they don’t say ‘white British’ it’s probably going to be used as justification for aggro
The only answer now is total transparency, unless there really ARE " operational reasons" - ie an ongoing terror hunt for more suspects
So if the perp is white British, black British, tartan British, Muslim refugee, white Russian spy, Kurdish Martian genderqueer with freckles, then just say it. And cope with the aftermath
Just so fascinated with all this racial identity stuff, aren't you.
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
It's obvious why they had to do it. And it's been remarkable the change in language online as a result - "road rage", "he panicked", "scared for his life", "a car hit pedestrians" (rather than "a driver").
You wouldn't phrase it like that for someone slashing people in a pub with a knife, and you certainly wouldn't be calling it road rage if it was a recent small boat Muslim immigrant. Perversely, prejudice against Liverpool fans was the response once the ethnicity was known.
But the statement has rather implied that rioting would be justified if it wasn't a white British man. That's why I'm uneasy with it.
The important thing the police wanted to get out was stop the racists from turning a disaster into a race riot (ala Southport). Because that was what various people were trying to do
For the first time my gut is saying that this Labour Government is heading for disaster.
I get the political argument for reversing the WFA changes but they’re pretty naive if they think this will be the start. The MPs will come back for more. And who is this policy change going to win back anyway? Surely it’s too late now. Fundamentally I still think the original policy was right.
The 2 child limit, who is this change designed to win over? It’s curious that Farage is proposing also to scrap it but I just can’t think instinctively this is the right policy to win back anyone either.
HL has said investor confidence in the UK has risen after April which is encouraging but will the strong growth in Q1 really be sustained? I worry that the champagne is being popped without much evidence of a long term trend.
Labour runs the risk of doing the same as Biden, where the economy is strong on the numbers but working people feel nothing has changed. That is where Farage will be in a strong position.
There was some good news about Albania being willing to take failed asylum seekers but how does one become a failed asylum seeker? Shouldn’t be we processing people offshore instead of sending failed ones there? Maybe it’s just the start but it just didn’t feel like a convincing enough idea for me. We need an offshore processing centre and fast.
Still many years to go and that but Farage is starting to give me the Boris Johnson feeling, that he’s winning over working class voters who aren’t going to go back to Labour. And Labour is thinking they will never vote for him. Feels a bit like 2019 all over again.
Labour has the levers. But I’m more sceptical than I was that they know which to pull.
You are right i think to sense disaster approaching. PIP is the flashpoint. With 100 to 150 at least threatening to rebel and frontbenchers on resignation watch the U turns on WFA and two kids will only harden that rebellion and increase its number. If he three line whips the vote it could be the end of at least Starmer, Reeves and Kendall. If he u turns or waters down then nothing will have credibility going forwards
Worth keeping an eye on proposed reforms to SEND in education too. That's going to be a real mess because the government's proposals would require legislative changes and they would undoubtedly be controversial.
Whats your take on this @ydoethur ? My high school had a SEND unit bolted onto the school - kids would attend normal classes where they could thanks to additional staff and resources.
My general impression is that schools don't have enough staff and resources to function even with 0 SEND kids. In reality we're much better at diagnosing things like Autism which was largely ignored previously which requires more resources not less.
If we actually resourced schools properly with a generous provision of teaching and support staff, could we remove some of the specialist / emergency SEND spending which all seems to be delivered on a postcode lottery basis?
IIRC Isn't an awful lot of the growth in LEA SEND spend taxis, because lots and lots of SEND kids are deemed unable to walk to school/use the regular school bus? Clamping down on this and spending the cash on actual education sounds like it could be a win/win for virtually everyone except the taxi firms.
Any evidence to back that up - that isn’t what the data I have shows?
Not a lot of data (it may exist, but I'm not sure where to find it) but it's definitely been in the mood music.
This suggests that costs have doubled since 2018-19.
In the context of the total schools budget (£63Bn), SEND transport is about 2.4%, which may not sound like much, but because there hasn't been a corresponding increase in the block grant it's really hurting LEA finances.
There is absolutely no question about paying for all of Nigel's freebies. I seem to remember affordability of a Labour programme was the key argument against Labour before the last election.
The media love to create a news story so I suspect it is all hands on deck to deliver a Reform government.
Tim Montgomerie, now with Reform, was on R4 Today at about 7.50 am this morning agreeing that Reform policies were economic fantasy nonsense with regard to the public finances but that there was 4 years to go and they would produce proper data on how their economics and policy would work.
Remarkably honest of him, except that at the last election their manifesto was fantasy. Next time it won't be so easy for them, as they really might end up governing.
Defenestration in Russia: Senior Inspector for the Khabarovsk region government fell out of an 8-story window at work and died, 15 minutes before he was to meet with the governor. https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1927157880160969083
They're not even subtle about it now. Just "you have upset us and now we will defenestrate you". It's a bad world.
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
Yes, if this happens - and like you I suspect it will - then the police have just made it all worse
Such a strange issue. To be honest I can see why they announced “white British” because, let’s be fair, it’s white British who are likely to riot if it’s a Muslim or an immigrant, which most of these types of attacks with cars as weapons are. Had they described Axel Rudakabana as “Black British” I’d have thought it a bit unnecessary to mention his race to be honest. Obviously calling him “Welsh” seemed like a bit of a red herring
But as you and @boulay say, from now on, every time they don’t say ‘white British’ it’s probably going to be used as justification for aggro
The only answer now is total transparency, unless there really ARE " operational reasons" - ie an ongoing terror hunt for more suspects
So if the perp is white British, black British, tartan British, Muslim refugee, white Russian spy, Kurdish Martian genderqueer with freckles, then just say it. And cope with the aftermath
Just so fascinated with all this racial identity stuff, aren't you.
lol
The one section of society which is utterly OBSESSED with race, identity, all of that, is the midwit and pathetic Woke Left. ie people like YOU
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
Yes, if this happens - and like you I suspect it will - then the police have just made it all worse
Such a strange issue. To be honest I can see why they announced “white British” because, let’s be fair, it’s white British who are likely to riot if it’s a Muslim or an immigrant, which most of these types of attacks with cars as weapons are. Had they described Axel Rudakabana as “Black British” I’d have thought it a bit unnecessary to mention his race to be honest. Obviously calling him “Welsh” seemed like a bit of a red herring
But as you and @boulay say, from now on, every time they don’t say ‘white British’ it’s probably going to be used as justification for aggro
The only answer now is total transparency, unless there really ARE " operational reasons" - ie an ongoing terror hunt for more suspects
So if the perp is white British, black British, tartan British, Muslim refugee, white Russian spy, Kurdish Martian genderqueer with freckles, then just say it. And cope with the aftermath
But in the case of Rudabukana, what use would it have been to tell us he was ‘Black British’? That could be David Lammy or Marcus Rashford, it doesn’t indicate terrorism at all. So in a way I think it is fair enough to say ‘White British’ because it’s pragmatic way of stopping more violence. Let’s be fair, the gunpowder is Islamic terrorism, not race wars
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
It's obvious why they had to do it. And it's been remarkable the change in language online as a result - "road rage", "he panicked", "scared for his life", "a car hit pedestrians" (rather than "a driver").
You wouldn't phrase it like that for someone slashing people in a pub with a knife, and you certainly wouldn't be calling it road rage if it was a recent small boat Muslim immigrant. Perversely, prejudice against Liverpool fans was the response once the ethnicity was known.
But the statement has rather implied that rioting would be justified if it wasn't a white British man. That's why I'm uneasy with it.
Glad you raised this because I thought I was alone in it. The notion that the main problem with those white racist riots was they were driven by misinformation. Because the truth was it wasn't a Syrian it was a Brit!
Well, ok, but the implication (if we're not careful) is they'd have been perfectly understandable if it hadn't been a Brit. Which is not a great road to go down.
It's extremely tricky. Imagine if you announced that they were a recent migrant but it turned out they really did have a medical episode or something. Introducing that information immediately after an attack, when feelings are extremely hot, doesn't seem wise to me at all.
I think the best thing would be a standard 24 hour period before basic details - age, gender, ethnicity, nationality are announced. Even then I'm uneasy - the BBC used "Muslim name" in their article. Wtf is a "Muslim name"? If I stab someone, are they going to trawl the records and announce that I'm Church of Scotland?
Based on OGH's old theory that it is the leader's ratings that matter then we are looking at two terms.
It's the favourable vs net favorable issue isn't it.
I think the net numbers are probably the wrong ones to use, especially in the era of 4 party politics - yes, there will be some anti-Ref tactical voting, but it will be frustrated by it being unclear in a lot of seats who their best challenger is.
It's also a question of vote efficiency - it's quite likely that Reform may have a very efficient vote if they actually get 30% ish, whereas Labour at 25% isn't terribly efficient at all (piles of votes in Liverpool and Tower Hamlets are much less valuable than handfuls of votes in each seat in the East Midlands or Tyneside).
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
The core problem is that every time there's a crime we have a bunch of racists desperate for the perp to be not white so they can kick off.
This makes it hard for any general 'policy' to be implemented.
There are also plenty who hope the “perp” is a white far right person so they can kick off or feel virtuous.
Or those who support other football teams hoping it was by fans of a team they hate so they can use it as a stick whilst confirming their prejudices.
But the risk of violence is asymmetric, this is the key thing. It's a practical matter being grappled with - how to minimise the chance of racist riots - not some point of theory or ideology.
"It would be melodramatic to predict the US reserve currency’s imminent dethronement. The conditions for a global financial crisis, on the other hand, should be taken seriously."
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
It's obvious why they had to do it. And it's been remarkable the change in language online as a result - "road rage", "he panicked", "scared for his life", "a car hit pedestrians" (rather than "a driver").
You wouldn't phrase it like that for someone slashing people in a pub with a knife, and you certainly wouldn't be calling it road rage if it was a recent small boat Muslim immigrant. Perversely, prejudice against Liverpool fans was the response once the ethnicity was known.
But the statement has rather implied that rioting would be justified if it wasn't a white British man. That's why I'm uneasy with it.
The important thing the police wanted to get out was stop the racists from turning a disaster into a race riot (ala Southport). Because that was what various people were trying to do
It’s anti Islam rather than racists I’d say. Had the perpetrator been a black British Christian with his roots in the Caribbean there wouldn’t be riots, if it were a black Muslim refugee from east Africa there probably would
He’s gone for the Peter Green of Fleetwood Mac look
Interesting to see how Farage deals with this actually. He’s trying to walk the tightrope of keeping people who like TR onside without alienating more centrist types. Like Starmer’s trick with the Labour left, it is not going to be easy
Looks like he's found God, for which he's given himself a big tick. He'd better hope ol' Yahweh doesn't find him.
Is Tommeh antisemitic? His type tend to be quite pro Israel
Genuine Q, I have no idea
Just piles in on formenting hate against the current out-group I expect.
His parole annoys me. he was imprisoned for repeatedly breaking an injunction against repeating a libel, a libel that was deliberate harassment he has previous convictions for harassment, including making false allegations he has other previous convictions for violence and fraud and he is so patriotic that he owes 6 figures to HMRC
He is not a prisoner who has shown any evidence that he has been rehabilitated and is unlikely to reoffend, so he should be serving his full sentence inside.
I must have missed you getting your knickers in a twist about the huge numbers of dangerous criminals that have been released early since Sir Slap-on-the-wrist took office.
If they were deemed to pose a risk to the public they wouldn't be released, so they'll have to have demonstrated contrition and that they are rehabilitated to a certain extent. It's not a perfect system, they do release people who reoffend, my objection in this case is that the probability of him committing a similar offence is in the high 99.9%s, so he shouldn't be released on parole at the earliest possible opportunity.
So the Tories will be the 5th biggest party, in danger of a cunning policy move from Mebyon Kernow, which would put them into 6th
Looks like the 10 seats the Tories would win are:
Harrow E Ruislip Croydon S East Grinstead Epping Forest Hertsmere Beaconsfield Windsor Earley & Woodley (a gain from Labour oddly enough) Stone (Gavin Williamson's seat, so he'd probably be leader)
Of course these UNS style calcs assume declines are universal. Even entering a GE with dreadful figures like the current showing the Tories (or Labour) would throw their entire resource into.75 to 100 seats and pool up a few strongholds. The May 1st results show there are still some (very limited) areas where Tories still outpoll Reform - Newark/Rushcliffe/Melton area, rural Northumberland as examples. Next year's locals will give us a view on Labour as more in their areas- on May 1 wards the only 3 seats where Labour led were Exeter, Cambridge and Oxford (Dodds seat)
I'd back the Tories to win 50 seats on this poll and be nip and tuck for 3rd with LDs
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
It's obvious why they had to do it. And it's been remarkable the change in language online as a result - "road rage", "he panicked", "scared for his life", "a car hit pedestrians" (rather than "a driver").
You wouldn't phrase it like that for someone slashing people in a pub with a knife, and you certainly wouldn't be calling it road rage if it was a recent small boat Muslim immigrant. Perversely, prejudice against Liverpool fans was the response once the ethnicity was known.
But the statement has rather implied that rioting would be justified if it wasn't a white British man. That's why I'm uneasy with it.
Glad you raised this because I thought I was alone in it. The notion that the main problem with those white racist riots was they were driven by misinformation. Because the truth was it wasn't a Syrian it was a Brit!
Well, ok, but the implication (if we're not careful) is they'd have been perfectly understandable if it hadn't been a Brit. Which is not a great road to go down.
It's extremely tricky. Imagine if you announced that they were a recent migrant but it turned out they really did have a medical episode or something. Introducing that information immediately after an attack, when feelings are extremely hot, doesn't seem wise to me at all.
I think the best thing would be a standard 24 hour period before basic details - age, gender, ethnicity, nationality are announced. Even then I'm uneasy - the BBC used "Muslim name" in their article. Wtf is a "Muslim name"? If I stab someone, are they going to trawl the records and announce that I'm Church of Scotland?
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
It's possible some Green supporters will move to the LDs because they can see the latter party is becoming more effective as potentially the main opposition.
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
Yes, if this happens - and like you I suspect it will - then the police have just made it all worse
Such a strange issue. To be honest I can see why they announced “white British” because, let’s be fair, it’s white British who are likely to riot if it’s a Muslim or an immigrant, which most of these types of attacks with cars as weapons are. Had they described Axel Rudakabana as “Black British” I’d have thought it a bit unnecessary to mention his race to be honest. Obviously calling him “Welsh” seemed like a bit of a red herring
But as you and @boulay say, from now on, every time they don’t say ‘white British’ it’s probably going to be used as justification for aggro
The only answer now is total transparency, unless there really ARE " operational reasons" - ie an ongoing terror hunt for more suspects
So if the perp is white British, black British, tartan British, Muslim refugee, white Russian spy, Kurdish Martian genderqueer with freckles, then just say it. And cope with the aftermath
But in the case of Rudabukana, what use would it have been to tell us he was ‘Black British’? That could be David Lammy or Marcus Rashford, it doesn’t indicate terrorism at all. So in a way I think it is fair enough to say ‘White British’ because it’s pragmatic way of stopping more violence. Let’s be fair, the gunpowder is Islamic terrorism, not race wars
A fair point, but it's the Liverpool police who rushed to reassure us that the perp yesterday was a "white British 53 year old male"
So now they've established the principle that we are going to be told the race and age and nationality, and whenever they don't, people will assume what they assume
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
There's another hatchet job on her in The Times this morning. Some bollocks about falling out with her official driver and then hiring her own car and driver at vast expense.
Watching a politician bleed out in real time is rare sport. You don't even have to feel sorry for her because she's tory scum.
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
Probably, but unless it prompts a coup it probably makes little difference. Very few voters pay any attention to opinion polls and its what happens to the voting intention once the 'switched off' switch back on in the lead in to the next election that matters If Labour lose the Welfare reform vote LD crossover to second is quite likely too in some polls
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
Yes, if this happens - and like you I suspect it will - then the police have just made it all worse
Such a strange issue. To be honest I can see why they announced “white British” because, let’s be fair, it’s white British who are likely to riot if it’s a Muslim or an immigrant, which most of these types of attacks with cars as weapons are. Had they described Axel Rudakabana as “Black British” I’d have thought it a bit unnecessary to mention his race to be honest. Obviously calling him “Welsh” seemed like a bit of a red herring
But as you and @boulay say, from now on, every time they don’t say ‘white British’ it’s probably going to be used as justification for aggro
The only answer now is total transparency, unless there really ARE " operational reasons" - ie an ongoing terror hunt for more suspects
So if the perp is white British, black British, tartan British, Muslim refugee, white Russian spy, Kurdish Martian genderqueer with freckles, then just say it. And cope with the aftermath
But in the case of Rudabukana, what use would it have been to tell us he was ‘Black British’? That could be David Lammy or Marcus Rashford, it doesn’t indicate terrorism at all. So in a way I think it is fair enough to say ‘White British’ because it’s pragmatic way of stopping more violence. Let’s be fair, the gunpowder is Islamic terrorism, not race wars
A fair point, but it's the Liverpool police who rushed to reassure us that the perp yesterday was a "white British 53 year old male"
So now they've established the principle that we are going to be told the race and age and nationality, and whenever they don't, people will assume what they assume
I don’t think they have established a principle, they’ve just defused what could have been an explosive atmosphere. Yes, from now on every time they don’t say ‘White British’ they risk a riot, but at least when they do say that they avoid one.
It doesn’t help the ‘two tier’ narrative at all though
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
On the other hand, remember the 1995 Leadership election (John Major saying Put up or shut up, John Redwood replying with No change, no chance.) Major survived, just about. Not because the party had any hope of winnng under his leadership, but because the alternative looked even worse.
There's also the paradoxical bit where the worse things get for the party, the safer the leader is. After all, if the parcel being passed is going to blow up, better that it does so in someone else's hands.
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
There's another hatchet job on her in The Times this morning. Some bollocks about falling out with her official driver and then hiring her own car and driver at vast expense.
Watching a politician bleed out in real time is rare sport. You don't even have to feel sorry for her because she's tory scum.
A friend of mine who is DECIDEDLY CLOSE to all the Tory bigwigs and knows all of them, warned me beforehand that the Kemster was like this. "She falls out with everyone, she's not as bright as she believes, she's a bit airheaded". He predicted she would be a disaster, but (FWIW - not much) I felt she was worth the risk. Probably because I quite fancy her
Turns out he was bang on. The Tories chose the wrong leader, it should have been Brandon Jenrick. It is maybe too late for them, now
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
There's another hatchet job on her in The Times this morning. Some bollocks about falling out with her official driver and then hiring her own car and driver at vast expense.
Watching a politician bleed out in real time is rare sport. You don't even have to feel sorry for her because she's tory scum.
She needs to sack every one of the poisonous snotrags at CCHQ whether she makes it or not. Might as well have some sort of legacy. If they briefed the press against Starmer at the same rate as they brief against Kemi the Tories would be 5 points ahead.
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
There's another hatchet job on her in The Times this morning. Some bollocks about falling out with her official driver and then hiring her own car and driver at vast expense.
Watching a politician bleed out in real time is rare sport. You don't even have to feel sorry for her because she's tory scum.
A friend of mine who is DECIDEDLY CLOSE to all the Tory bigwigs and knows all of them, warned me beforehand that the Kemster was like this. "She falls out with everyone, she's not as bright as she believes, she's a bit airheaded". He predicted she would be a disaster, but (FWIW - not much) I felt she was worth the risk. Probably because I quite fancy her
Turns out he was bang on. The Tories chose the wrong leader, it should have been Brandon Jenrick. It is maybe too late for them, now
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
Yes, if this happens - and like you I suspect it will - then the police have just made it all worse
Such a strange issue. To be honest I can see why they announced “white British” because, let’s be fair, it’s white British who are likely to riot if it’s a Muslim or an immigrant, which most of these types of attacks with cars as weapons are. Had they described Axel Rudakabana as “Black British” I’d have thought it a bit unnecessary to mention his race to be honest. Obviously calling him “Welsh” seemed like a bit of a red herring
But as you and @boulay say, from now on, every time they don’t say ‘white British’ it’s probably going to be used as justification for aggro
The only answer now is total transparency, unless there really ARE " operational reasons" - ie an ongoing terror hunt for more suspects
So if the perp is white British, black British, tartan British, Muslim refugee, white Russian spy, Kurdish Martian genderqueer with freckles, then just say it. And cope with the aftermath
But in the case of Rudabukana, what use would it have been to tell us he was ‘Black British’? That could be David Lammy or Marcus Rashford, it doesn’t indicate terrorism at all. So in a way I think it is fair enough to say ‘White British’ because it’s pragmatic way of stopping more violence. Let’s be fair, the gunpowder is Islamic terrorism, not race wars
A fair point, but it's the Liverpool police who rushed to reassure us that the perp yesterday was a "white British 53 year old male"
So now they've established the principle that we are going to be told the race and age and nationality, and whenever they don't, people will assume what they assume
I don’t think they have established a principle, they’ve just defused what could have been an explosive atmosphere. Yes, from now on every time they don’t say ‘White British’ they risk a riot, but at least when they do say that they avoid one.
It doesn’t help the ‘two tier’ narrative at all though
Yet another example of the self-sustaining nature of the nativist right's perpetual grievance machine.
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
There's another hatchet job on her in The Times this morning. Some bollocks about falling out with her official driver and then hiring her own car and driver at vast expense.
Watching a politician bleed out in real time is rare sport. You don't even have to feel sorry for her because she's tory scum.
A friend of mine who is DECIDEDLY CLOSE to all the Tory bigwigs and knows all of them, warned me beforehand that the Kemster was like this. "She falls out with everyone, she's not as bright as she believes, she's a bit airheaded". He predicted she would be a disaster, but (FWIW - not much) I felt she was worth the risk. Probably because I quite fancy her
Turns out he was bang on. The Tories chose the wrong leader, it should have been Brandon Jenrick. It is maybe too late for them, now
Probably better to have Bad Kemi and mini bounce with Jenners or Cleverly into an election than knife Jenrick or Cleverley and give it to Kemi as election approaches. A Sunak failure followed by Truss would likely have been terminal, for example
He’s gone for the Peter Green of Fleetwood Mac look
Interesting to see how Farage deals with this actually. He’s trying to walk the tightrope of keeping people who like TR onside without alienating more centrist types. Like Starmer’s trick with the Labour left, it is not going to be easy
Looks like he's found God, for which he's given himself a big tick. He'd better hope ol' Yahweh doesn't find him.
Is Tommeh antisemitic? His type tend to be quite pro Israel
Genuine Q, I have no idea
Just piles in on formenting hate against the current out-group I expect.
His parole annoys me. he was imprisoned for repeatedly breaking an injunction against repeating a libel, a libel that was deliberate harassment he has previous convictions for harassment, including making false allegations he has other previous convictions for violence and fraud and he is so patriotic that he owes 6 figures to HMRC
He is not a prisoner who has shown any evidence that he has been rehabilitated and is unlikely to reoffend, so he should be serving his full sentence inside.
I must have missed you getting your knickers in a twist about the huge numbers of dangerous criminals that have been released early since Sir Slap-on-the-wrist took office.
If they were deemed to pose a risk to the public they wouldn't be released, so they'll have to have demonstrated contrition and that they are rehabilitated to a certain extent. It's not a perfect system, they do release people who reoffend, my objection in this case is that the probability of him committing a similar offence is in the high 99.9%s, so he shouldn't be released on parole at the earliest possible opportunity.
Sod off they have. They were filmed celebrating outside the prisons!
He’s gone for the Peter Green of Fleetwood Mac look
Interesting to see how Farage deals with this actually. He’s trying to walk the tightrope of keeping people who like TR onside without alienating more centrist types. Like Starmer’s trick with the Labour left, it is not going to be easy
Looks like he's found God, for which he's given himself a big tick. He'd better hope ol' Yahweh doesn't find him.
Is Tommeh antisemitic? His type tend to be quite pro Israel
Genuine Q, I have no idea
Just piles in on formenting hate against the current out-group I expect.
His parole annoys me. he was imprisoned for repeatedly breaking an injunction against repeating a libel, a libel that was deliberate harassment he has previous convictions for harassment, including making false allegations he has other previous convictions for violence and fraud and he is so patriotic that he owes 6 figures to HMRC
He is not a prisoner who has shown any evidence that he has been rehabilitated and is unlikely to reoffend, so he should be serving his full sentence inside.
There was a reason for this. He had been given an 18-month sentence, but that was actually in 2 parts: a 14-month sentence was punitive, plus a 4-month so-called coercive sentence, as he hadn't promised not to repeat the contempt. He then promised not to repeat the contempt, so the 4-month part was withdrawn. That's how it's meant to work. (Although you can still argue that he shouldn't be out on parole given past behaviour.)
He might be back in jail very soon. Next month, his trial on charges of harassment causing fear of violence against two Daily Mail journalists begins. He's also got court dates coming up next year for failing to give the PIN for his phone to police when arrested. Presumably Elon Musk will claim this all counts as freedom of speech...
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
The core problem is that every time there's a crime we have a bunch of racists desperate for the perp to be not white so they can kick off.
This makes it hard for any general 'policy' to be implemented.
You can't see that the only fair way to do it is to release the same amount of information no matter who it is? Releasing very little information would be okay if that was applied to everyone for example. I'd probably be in favour of that. Not much information until someone is charged.
Yes, I'd say never announcing ethnicity is best. But - and this is my point - there's the pressing practical matter of avoiding a repeat of the white racist violence we saw last summer. That's more important than what people (inc me) think is best in theory.
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
On the other hand, remember the 1995 Leadership election (John Major saying Put up or shut up, John Redwood replying with No change, no chance.) Major survived, just about. Not because the party had any hope of winnng under his leadership, but because the alternative looked even worse.
There's also the paradoxical bit where the worse things get for the party, the safer the leader is. After all, if the parcel being passed is going to blow up, better that it does so in someone else's hands.
Yes, the key consideration for those who'd usurp Kemi's crown is that only one Tory leader this millennium has lasted more than three years, and the next general election is four years away. Take the big job now and you'll be replaced yourself before polling day. That belated realisation is probably why Bob J has gone quiet.
Why have we renamed them that? Do they live in the hospitals?
Because most of them are not juniors. I'm not in favour of giving glorified names to straightforward jobs eg dustman becoming refuse operatives for instance. However in this case calling someone a 'junior' who is just about to become a consultant seems very odd.
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
There's another hatchet job on her in The Times this morning. Some bollocks about falling out with her official driver and then hiring her own car and driver at vast expense.
Watching a politician bleed out in real time is rare sport. You don't even have to feel sorry for her because she's tory scum.
A friend of mine who is DECIDEDLY CLOSE to all the Tory bigwigs and knows all of them, warned me beforehand that the Kemster was like this. "She falls out with everyone, she's not as bright as she believes, she's a bit airheaded". He predicted she would be a disaster, but (FWIW - not much) I felt she was worth the risk. Probably because I quite fancy her
Turns out he was bang on. The Tories chose the wrong leader, it should have been Brandon Jenrick. It is maybe too late for them, now
Probably better to have Bad Kemi and mini bounce with Jenners or Cleverly into an election than knife Jenrick or Cleverley and give it to Kemi as election approaches. A Sunak failure followed by Truss would likely have been terminal, for example
Do you honestly think Cleverly would give them a bounce? Maybe he'd bounce them from 13% to 14 and a half %
When multiculturalism was mooted in the 60s, the idea was that eventually race and religion would be irrelevant as lived under the happy banner of being British.
Sixty years later, I’d say the fuss over the way police announce ethnicity & religion of suspects in incidents like yesterdays show it hasn’t worked
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
There's another hatchet job on her in The Times this morning. Some bollocks about falling out with her official driver and then hiring her own car and driver at vast expense.
Watching a politician bleed out in real time is rare sport. You don't even have to feel sorry for her because she's tory scum.
It's just as well the PB glitterati are ******* themselves off over immigration, otherwise they might have seen your "scum" comment.
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
There's another hatchet job on her in The Times this morning. Some bollocks about falling out with her official driver and then hiring her own car and driver at vast expense.
Watching a politician bleed out in real time is rare sport. You don't even have to feel sorry for her because she's tory scum.
She needs to sack every one of the poisonous snotrags at CCHQ whether she makes it or not. Might as well have some sort of legacy. If they briefed the press against Starmer at the same rate as they brief against Kemi the Tories would be 5 points ahead.
It's always the Times too.
I think it's Gove playing a George Smiley style deep game.
Quite a good point on X: the car reg from the Liverpool horror must be visible in one of the many videos
How hard is it to search the reg and find the owner? That's probably the perp
As more videos emerge it does look like this really is some hideous panic by the driver that turned into utter carnage. Tragic
Panic by the driver in response to panic by the crowd who thought they were stopping a terrorist. Odd thing is the police did not stop him earlier but I suppose that's being looked into as we speak.
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
Yes, if this happens - and like you I suspect it will - then the police have just made it all worse
Such a strange issue. To be honest I can see why they announced “white British” because, let’s be fair, it’s white British who are likely to riot if it’s a Muslim or an immigrant, which most of these types of attacks with cars as weapons are. Had they described Axel Rudakabana as “Black British” I’d have thought it a bit unnecessary to mention his race to be honest. Obviously calling him “Welsh” seemed like a bit of a red herring
But as you and @boulay say, from now on, every time they don’t say ‘white British’ it’s probably going to be used as justification for aggro
The only answer now is total transparency, unless there really ARE " operational reasons" - ie an ongoing terror hunt for more suspects
So if the perp is white British, black British, tartan British, Muslim refugee, white Russian spy, Kurdish Martian genderqueer with freckles, then just say it. And cope with the aftermath
Just so fascinated with all this racial identity stuff, aren't you.
lol
The one section of society which is utterly OBSESSED with race, identity, all of that, is the midwit and pathetic Woke Left. ie people like YOU
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
There's another hatchet job on her in The Times this morning. Some bollocks about falling out with her official driver and then hiring her own car and driver at vast expense.
Watching a politician bleed out in real time is rare sport. You don't even have to feel sorry for her because she's tory scum.
A friend of mine who is DECIDEDLY CLOSE to all the Tory bigwigs and knows all of them, warned me beforehand that the Kemster was like this. "She falls out with everyone, she's not as bright as she believes, she's a bit airheaded". He predicted she would be a disaster, but (FWIW - not much) I felt she was worth the risk. Probably because I quite fancy her
Turns out he was bang on. The Tories chose the wrong leader, it should have been Brandon Jenrick. It is maybe too late for them, now
Probably better to have Bad Kemi and mini bounce with Jenners or Cleverly into an election than knife Jenrick or Cleverley and give it to Kemi as election approaches. A Sunak failure followed by Truss would likely have been terminal, for example
Do you honestly think Cleverly would give them a bounce? Maybe he'd bounce them from 13% to 14 and a half %
I think he'd shore up the blue wallers and London vote a bit, yeah. He'd get them low 20s in a GE. Jenrick might capture a bit of the imagination or crash and burn, he's the high risk, higher potential reward choice who might get them largest party (but nobody is getting them close to majority)
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
They're such lying fucks. People don't believe them, and they're right to disbelieve
As you say they will do it when it suits - white British male, gammony face, they will release the info probably before the crime is actually committed. Others, not so much
I’ve already heard plenty of “futureproofing” from politicians etc today where they have been saying that of course they won’t always be able to announce the ethnicity of a suspect in future for various “operational reasons”.
So if it’s a white man there will not be any operational reasons to keep that quiet - which sort of causes the situation where whenever they don’t announce the race of a suspect then everyone will assume they are not white males and so the worst of society will use that to stir things up.
Yes, if this happens - and like you I suspect it will - then the police have just made it all worse
Such a strange issue. To be honest I can see why they announced “white British” because, let’s be fair, it’s white British who are likely to riot if it’s a Muslim or an immigrant, which most of these types of attacks with cars as weapons are. Had they described Axel Rudakabana as “Black British” I’d have thought it a bit unnecessary to mention his race to be honest. Obviously calling him “Welsh” seemed like a bit of a red herring
But as you and @boulay say, from now on, every time they don’t say ‘white British’ it’s probably going to be used as justification for aggro
The only answer now is total transparency, unless there really ARE " operational reasons" - ie an ongoing terror hunt for more suspects
So if the perp is white British, black British, tartan British, Muslim refugee, white Russian spy, Kurdish Martian genderqueer with freckles, then just say it. And cope with the aftermath
Just so fascinated with all this racial identity stuff, aren't you.
lol
The one section of society which is utterly OBSESSED with race, identity, all of that, is the midwit and pathetic Woke Left. ie people like YOU
Utter lack of self awareness.
He's not lacking in self-awareness. Leon knows he's a racist. He's trolling.
When multiculturalism was mooted in the 60s, the idea was that eventually race and religion would be irrelevant as lived under the happy banner of being British.
Sixty years later, I’d say the fuss over the way police announce ethnicity & religion of suspects in incidents like yesterdays show it hasn’t worked
Of course it hasn't worked. It is the greatest failure in western public policy of the postwar era, it has not worked in a single western country, and the failure is now turning into catastrophe as voters turn to the Far Right in despair
Thing is, to stem and silence the wave of anger - from native populations - democratic governments are having to resort to evermore draconian, anti-democratic means - clamping down on free speech, disbarring politicians and parties, censoring all media, putting people in prison for tweets. Which only makes voters angrier and MORE inclined to vote far right
David Betz is correct. On current trajectories we are headed for civil strife across Europe
When multiculturalism was mooted in the 60s, the idea was that eventually race and religion would be irrelevant as lived under the happy banner of being British.
Sixty years later, I’d say the fuss over the way police announce ethnicity & religion of suspects in incidents like yesterdays show it hasn’t worked
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
It's obvious why they had to do it. And it's been remarkable the change in language online as a result - "road rage", "he panicked", "scared for his life", "a car hit pedestrians" (rather than "a driver").
You wouldn't phrase it like that for someone slashing people in a pub with a knife, and you certainly wouldn't be calling it road rage if it was a recent small boat Muslim immigrant. Perversely, prejudice against Liverpool fans was the response once the ethnicity was known.
But the statement has rather implied that rioting would be justified if it wasn't a white British man. That's why I'm uneasy with it.
The important thing the police wanted to get out was stop the racists from turning a disaster into a race riot (ala Southport). Because that was what various people were trying to do
It’s anti Islam rather than racists I’d say. Had the perpetrator been a black British Christian with his roots in the Caribbean there wouldn’t be riots, if it were a black Muslim refugee from east Africa there probably would
There are several million Islamic/Islamic heritage people permanently resident in the UK. This general fact isn't going to change even if net zero migration happened today.
An essential shift which has to happen to avoid disaster is a cultural shift whereby Islam is added to Judaism and Christianity and all three together considered under a common 'Abrahamic monotheistic faith' sort of umbrella, just as at the moment we speak often of the 'Judaeo/Christian' inheritance without finding it a disturbing concept.
There is of course no difficulty in rubbishing all of these traditions (I belong to the Christian one, regularly rubbished by one and all) so it will be uphill, but without it we are in trouble.
Why have we renamed them that? Do they live in the hospitals?
Because most of them are not juniors. I'm not in favour of giving glorified names to straightforward jobs eg dustman becoming refuse operatives for instance. However in this case calling someone a 'junior' who is just about to become a consultant seems very odd.
What about 'doctor'?
Though tbf, some of the most outstandingly brilliant barristers are 'juniors'. David Sherborne for example.
When multiculturalism was mooted in the 60s, the idea was that eventually race and religion would be irrelevant as lived under the happy banner of being British.
Sixty years later, I’d say the fuss over the way police announce ethnicity & religion of suspects in incidents like yesterdays show it hasn’t worked
BBC picking up on the apparent change in policy from Merseyside police over reporting about suspects. This is the key bit, I think:
"The problem that police forces now face is whether this new approach will lead to confusion in future.
What will a force do for example if the information about the suspect they are holding is unclear?
Even more problematically, what will a force do if they arrest someone in similar circumstances who is a recently arrived migrant or who has a clearly Muslim name?
Last night's rapid move to correct the narrative may not be as straightforward in different circumstances.
Helen King, former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said: "There will be times when police can confirm quickly. There are other times when it is unclear. These will always be complex and sensitive decisions.""
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the police will confirm quickly when its white men...
It's obvious why they had to do it. And it's been remarkable the change in language online as a result - "road rage", "he panicked", "scared for his life", "a car hit pedestrians" (rather than "a driver").
You wouldn't phrase it like that for someone slashing people in a pub with a knife, and you certainly wouldn't be calling it road rage if it was a recent small boat Muslim immigrant. Perversely, prejudice against Liverpool fans was the response once the ethnicity was known.
But the statement has rather implied that rioting would be justified if it wasn't a white British man. That's why I'm uneasy with it.
The important thing the police wanted to get out was stop the racists from turning a disaster into a race riot (ala Southport). Because that was what various people were trying to do
It’s anti Islam rather than racists I’d say. Had the perpetrator been a black British Christian with his roots in the Caribbean there wouldn’t be riots, if it were a black Muslim refugee from east Africa there probably would
There are several million Islamic/Islamic heritage people permanently resident in the UK. This general fact isn't going to change even if net zero migration happened today.
An essential shift which has to happen to avoid disaster is a cultural shift whereby Islam is added to Judaism and Christianity and all three together considered under a common 'Abrahamic monotheistic faith' sort of umbrella, just as at the moment we speak often of the 'Judaeo/Christian' inheritance without finding it a disturbing concept.
There is of course no difficulty in rubbishing all of these traditions (I belong to the Christian one, regularly rubbished by one and all) so it will be uphill, but without it we are in trouble.
But that requires Islam to undergo an Enlightenment. So as a belief system it is able to accept and tolerate criticism, satire, cruel mockery
Judaism and Christianity have both undergone this process, there is absolutely no sign of this happening within Islam, indeed it is going in the opposite direction, becoming even more dogmatic, prickly, conservative, aggressive
So how do you solve that? Because unless you solve it, then it seems to me that conservative Islam is incompatible with liberal western freedoms as we know them, and we have imported one hell of a problem
You haven't got the hang of this election caper have you? Unless Mossad intervene we have to wait four years. Reform could be up to 95 between now and then, but if they drop back to say 20 on election day they do not become the limited company of Government.
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
There's another hatchet job on her in The Times this morning. Some bollocks about falling out with her official driver and then hiring her own car and driver at vast expense.
Watching a politician bleed out in real time is rare sport. You don't even have to feel sorry for her because she's tory scum.
A friend of mine who is DECIDEDLY CLOSE to all the Tory bigwigs and knows all of them, warned me beforehand that the Kemster was like this. "She falls out with everyone, she's not as bright as she believes, she's a bit airheaded". He predicted she would be a disaster, but (FWIW - not much) I felt she was worth the risk. Probably because I quite fancy her
Turns out he was bang on. The Tories chose the wrong leader, it should have been Brandon Jenrick. It is maybe too late for them, now
It would not matter who they chose. For 33 years, the Tories have formed a circular firing squad, and backstabbing colleagues is now endemic, and public patience with them has run out.
When multiculturalism was mooted in the 60s, the idea was that eventually race and religion would be irrelevant as lived under the happy banner of being British.
Sixty years later, I’d say the fuss over the way police announce ethnicity & religion of suspects in incidents like yesterdays show it hasn’t worked
I have just come in and Farage is giving a news conference on BBC2. Don't know why. However he is very good. Very professional. Have to admit even though I don't like his policies.
He is a formidable campaigner and is saying things that are very popular
I fear he is not only leading the political narrative but may well be winning the argument
Starmer, Badenoch and yes, Davey, have a real fight on their hands
Starmer, partly, has also handed him all the argument. Not only Labour, but also the Tories, are falling very similarly since the island of strangers.
I don't think Davey has much of a fight on his hands or none more so than usual.
LibDems voters are almost certainly mainly implacably opposed to the country being run by Farage and Tice I would wager.
It’s an opportunity for the LDs, not a threat. Unlike Labour or the Tories, the LDs don’t have to pander to Farage’s views or pretend to be Reform-lite, and so can pick up those people wanting to make a clear stand against the right, just as they have in relation to Trump.
And there aren’t really any LD-Reform marginals/contests (yet!), anyway.
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
There's another hatchet job on her in The Times this morning. Some bollocks about falling out with her official driver and then hiring her own car and driver at vast expense.
Watching a politician bleed out in real time is rare sport. You don't even have to feel sorry for her because she's tory scum.
She needs to sack every one of the poisonous snotrags at CCHQ whether she makes it or not. Might as well have some sort of legacy. If they briefed the press against Starmer at the same rate as they brief against Kemi the Tories would be 5 points ahead.
It's always the Times too.
I think it's Gove playing a George Smiley style deep game.
Oh, me too. Not particularly deep either. The irony being he was intrumental in putting her there. Getting rid of his crew would be the Tory equivalent of dropping the ring of doom into the volcano.
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
There's another hatchet job on her in The Times this morning. Some bollocks about falling out with her official driver and then hiring her own car and driver at vast expense.
Watching a politician bleed out in real time is rare sport. You don't even have to feel sorry for her because she's tory scum.
A friend of mine who is DECIDEDLY CLOSE to all the Tory bigwigs and knows all of them, warned me beforehand that the Kemster was like this. "She falls out with everyone, she's not as bright as she believes, she's a bit airheaded". He predicted she would be a disaster, but (FWIW - not much) I felt she was worth the risk. Probably because I quite fancy her
Turns out he was bang on. The Tories chose the wrong leader, it should have been Brandon Jenrick. It is maybe too late for them, now
It would not matter who they chose. For 33 years, the Tories have formed a circular firing squad, and backstabbing colleagues is now endemic, and public patience with them has run out.
Yes, that might well be true. That also means bringing back Boris will do nothing, as well
I see that congratulations are due for Reform for successfully locating the ever-elusive magic money tree. In its absence their fiscal plans would be a load of old bollocks, so it's a good job they've found it.
The idea that any more can be taken from local government is laughable.
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
There's another hatchet job on her in The Times this morning. Some bollocks about falling out with her official driver and then hiring her own car and driver at vast expense.
Watching a politician bleed out in real time is rare sport. You don't even have to feel sorry for her because she's tory scum.
A friend of mine who is DECIDEDLY CLOSE to all the Tory bigwigs and knows all of them, warned me beforehand that the Kemster was like this. "She falls out with everyone, she's not as bright as she believes, she's a bit airheaded". He predicted she would be a disaster, but (FWIW - not much) I felt she was worth the risk. Probably because I quite fancy her
Turns out he was bang on. The Tories chose the wrong leader, it should have been Brandon Jenrick. It is maybe too late for them, now
A friend of mine, the banana man, has a thing for women with gaps in their teeth. I won’t elaborate further.
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
On the other hand, remember the 1995 Leadership election (John Major saying Put up or shut up, John Redwood replying with No change, no chance.) Major survived, just about. Not because the party had any hope of winnng under his leadership, but because the alternative looked even worse.
There's also the paradoxical bit where the worse things get for the party, the safer the leader is. After all, if the parcel being passed is going to blow up, better that it does so in someone else's hands.
Can the Tories survive another blow up (down?) at the next election?
If I were a Tory MP I'd be trying to decide whether degenerating the leader, or jumping ship to Reform or the Lib Dems were the better choice for my political future. There's no future in the status quo.
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
There's another hatchet job on her in The Times this morning. Some bollocks about falling out with her official driver and then hiring her own car and driver at vast expense.
Watching a politician bleed out in real time is rare sport. You don't even have to feel sorry for her because she's tory scum.
She needs to sack every one of the poisonous snotrags at CCHQ whether she makes it or not. Might as well have some sort of legacy. If they briefed the press against Starmer at the same rate as they brief against Kemi the Tories would be 5 points ahead.
It's always the Times too.
I think it's Gove playing a George Smiley style deep game.
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
Regular crossover with the LDs is only a few weeks away.
There's another hatchet job on her in The Times this morning. Some bollocks about falling out with her official driver and then hiring her own car and driver at vast expense.
Watching a politician bleed out in real time is rare sport. You don't even have to feel sorry for her because she's tory scum.
A friend of mine who is DECIDEDLY CLOSE to all the Tory bigwigs and knows all of them, warned me beforehand that the Kemster was like this. "She falls out with everyone, she's not as bright as she believes, she's a bit airheaded". He predicted she would be a disaster, but (FWIW - not much) I felt she was worth the risk. Probably because I quite fancy her
Turns out he was bang on. The Tories chose the wrong leader, it should have been Brandon Jenrick. It is maybe too late for them, now
It would not matter who they chose. For 33 years, the Tories have formed a circular firing squad, and backstabbing colleagues is now endemic, and public patience with them has run out.
Yes, that might well be true. That also means bringing back Boris will do nothing, as well
The end of the Tories is nigh, perhaps
Depends what you mean by the end. If the PCP disappears entirely and the councillors start dropping away to nothing the machinery and personnel will invade Reform and spread like a cancer.
I see that congratulations are due for Reform for successfully locating the ever-elusive magic money tree. In its absence their fiscal plans would be a load of old bollocks, so it's a good job they've found it.
The idea that any more can be taken from local government is laughable.
Give local govt more money or remove statutory requirements, such as ferrying every SEND pupil to school, means test it.
I go out for a cycle,ride every morning and go past a local school. Lots of taxis there. Rinsing the council tax payer. I feel a few ‘close passes’ may need reporting soon.
On Farage, I haven't seen it but I can't say I'm especially impressed by '5% less quangos' - sorry what?
Nigel is definitely going for the 'credible party of government' thing. It's not something he's really needed to do before so it'll be interesting to see if he pulls it off. (Some would argue that he shouldn't bother with such legacy politics at all: just be Nigel!)
So the Tories will be the 5th biggest party, in danger of a cunning policy move from Mebyon Kernow, which would put them into 6th
Looks like the 10 seats the Tories would win are:
Harrow E Ruislip Croydon S East Grinstead Epping Forest Hertsmere Beaconsfield Windsor Earley & Woodley (a gain from Labour oddly enough) Stone (Gavin Williamson's seat, so he'd probably be leader)
East Grinstead should be a top LD target next time. It looks safe even though the Tory vote wasn’t any better than other seats around, because Labour and LibDem split the opposition vote. But the LDs secured the all important second place, and with LDs now so strong in the south and with an unpopular government, it is easy to see the centre-left vote swinging significantly behind them next time around.
Indeed, if the political environment looks anything like now or last time, it would make a great constituency bet, as on the figures it looks far more of a long shot than it is.
So the Tories will be the 5th biggest party, in danger of a cunning policy move from Mebyon Kernow, which would put them into 6th
Looks like the 10 seats the Tories would win are:
Harrow E Ruislip Croydon S East Grinstead Epping Forest Hertsmere Beaconsfield Windsor Earley & Woodley (a gain from Labour oddly enough) Stone (Gavin Williamson's seat, so he'd probably be leader)
Of course these UNS style calcs assume declines are universal. Even entering a GE with dreadful figures like the current showing the Tories (or Labour) would throw their entire resource into.75 to 100 seats and pool up a few strongholds. The May 1st results show there are still some (very limited) areas where Tories still outpoll Reform - Newark/Rushcliffe/Melton area, rural Northumberland as examples. Next year's locals will give us a view on Labour as more in their areas- on May 1 wards the only 3 seats where Labour led were Exeter, Cambridge and Oxford (Dodds seat)
I'd back the Tories to win 50 seats on this poll and be nip and tuck for 3rd with LDs
Ironically, Labour narrowly led in Exeter but it won them zero councillors.
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
On the other hand, remember the 1995 Leadership election (John Major saying Put up or shut up, John Redwood replying with No change, no chance.) Major survived, just about. Not because the party had any hope of winnng under his leadership, but because the alternative looked even worse.
There's also the paradoxical bit where the worse things get for the party, the safer the leader is. After all, if the parcel being passed is going to blow up, better that it does so in someone else's hands.
Can the Tories survive another blow up (down?) at the next election?
If I were a Tory MP I'd be trying to decide whether degenerating the leader, or jumping ship to Reform or the Lib Dems were the better choice for my political future. There's no future in the status quo.
Neither Reform nor the LDs want a 'load' of defections (but they'd take a smattering) - there's damage to be taken from being seen to take in any old crap from a dying party. And in reforms case the influx can't outnumber the pure or it becomes a takeover
Personally I think Kemi is doing a good job but I don't know how long she can last as leader with figures like this.
On the other hand, remember the 1995 Leadership election (John Major saying Put up or shut up, John Redwood replying with No change, no chance.) Major survived, just about. Not because the party had any hope of winnng under his leadership, but because the alternative looked even worse.
There's also the paradoxical bit where the worse things get for the party, the safer the leader is. After all, if the parcel being passed is going to blow up, better that it does so in someone else's hands.
Can the Tories survive another blow up (down?) at the next election?
If I were a Tory MP I'd be trying to decide whether degenerating the leader, or jumping ship to Reform or the Lib Dems were the better choice for my political future. There's no future in the status quo.
I’d gives that depends where your seat is and if either party would have you.
To Join the Lib Dem’s you need to abandon any principles and simply promise voters whatever they want in the expectation you’ll never have to deliver and to join Reform you’d have to kiss the ring and pledge loyalty to Kim Jong-Farage.
So the Tories will be the 5th biggest party, in danger of a cunning policy move from Mebyon Kernow, which would put them into 6th
Looks like the 10 seats the Tories would win are:
Harrow E Ruislip Croydon S East Grinstead Epping Forest Hertsmere Beaconsfield Windsor Earley & Woodley (a gain from Labour oddly enough) Stone (Gavin Williamson's seat, so he'd probably be leader)
East Grinstead should be a top LD target next time. It looks safe even though the Tory vote wasn’t any better than other seats around, because Labour and LibDem split the opposition vote. But the LDs secured the all important second place, and with LDs now so strong in the south and with an unpopular government, it is easy to see the centre-left vote swinging significantly behind them next time around.
Indeed, if the political environment looks anything like last time, it would make a great constituency bet, as on the figures it looks far more of a long shot than it is.
Grinstead also lacked a Reform candidate which will eat the Tory share away too
Comments
In fact, as Farage has just proved, these illegal aliens are living in FIVE STAR hotels
Though in your game universities have increasingly gone American and redesignated lecturers as assistant professors.
As one of my old lecturers said when it was being debated, I'd rather have an extra ten grand a year and they can call me Funny-face.
This makes it hard for any general 'policy' to be implemented.
But as you and @boulay say, from now on, every time they don’t say ‘white British’ it’s probably going to be used as justification for aggro
There is absolutely no question about paying for all of Nigel's freebies. I seem to remember affordability of a Labour programme was the key argument against Labour before the last election.
The media love to create a news story so I suspect it is all hands on deck to deliver a Reform government.
Immigration, immigration, immigration.
That poll, Baxtered:
Reform: 406
Lab: 107
Lib: 56
SNP: 41
Con: 10 (yes, 10)
Green: 5
So the Tories will be the 5th biggest party, in danger of a cunning policy move from Mebyon Kernow, which would put them into 6th
Until they start deporting these terrorists and criminals the public at large will see the police and politicians as being on the side of the criminals rather than protecting us from them.
So if the perp is white British, black British, tartan British, Muslim refugee, white Russian spy, Kurdish Martian genderqueer with freckles, then just say it. And cope with the aftermath
Total State Managed Expenditure is somewhere between 40 and 45% of the total expenditure of the state. Every extra bit of spending involves a cut somewhere else. Nearly all of it goes on the stuff lots of people think essential, like NHS. 'Efficiency' savings are real but marginal in effect. To fund all this we already borrow £150 bn per annum, with the result that interest on this costs £100 bn and rising. Everyone thinks they are already taxed too highly.
Now start the discussion and make your suggestions......
Well, ok, but the implication (if we're not careful) is they'd have been perfectly understandable if it hadn't been a Brit. Which is not a great road to go down.
This is a government willing to pay £30bn to a random foreign country to take British territory, for no reason
So if I heard that Hampton Court Palace was being turned into an asylum seeker "house of multiple occupancy", complete with butlers and equerries, I wouldn't immediately discount it
Harrow E
Ruislip
Croydon S
East Grinstead
Epping Forest
Hertsmere
Beaconsfield
Windsor
Earley & Woodley (a gain from Labour oddly enough)
Stone (Gavin Williamson's seat, so he'd probably be leader)
Or those who support other football teams hoping it was by fans of a team they hate so they can use it as a stick whilst confirming their prejudices.
For example:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/the-long-and-winding-road-for-send-pupils/
Suggests that SEND transport costs have trippled since 2016 an increase of around £1Bn.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68665303
This suggests that costs have doubled since 2018-19.
In the context of the total schools budget (£63Bn), SEND transport is about 2.4%, which may not sound like much, but because there hasn't been a corresponding increase in the block grant it's really hurting LEA finances.
Occurred to me the other day that mass immigration is similar to closing the coal mines in its effect on working class lives, socially & economically
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/extra-1bn-send-funding-is-not-reaching-children/
Remarkably honest of him, except that at the last election their manifesto was fantasy. Next time it won't be so easy for them, as they really might end up governing.
The one section of society which is utterly OBSESSED with race, identity, all of that, is the midwit and pathetic Woke Left. ie people like YOU
I think the best thing would be a standard 24 hour period before basic details - age, gender, ethnicity, nationality are announced. Even then I'm uneasy - the BBC used "Muslim name" in their article. Wtf is a "Muslim name"? If I stab someone, are they going to trawl the records and announce that I'm Church of Scotland?
I think the net numbers are probably the wrong ones to use, especially in the era of 4 party politics - yes, there will be some anti-Ref tactical voting, but it will be frustrated by it being unclear in a lot of seats who their best challenger is.
It's also a question of vote efficiency - it's quite likely that Reform may have a very efficient vote if they actually get 30% ish, whereas Labour at 25% isn't terribly efficient at all (piles of votes in Liverpool and Tower Hamlets are much less valuable than handfuls of votes in each seat in the East Midlands or Tyneside).
"It would be melodramatic to predict the US reserve currency’s imminent dethronement. The conditions for a global financial crisis, on the other hand, should be taken seriously."
https://www.ft.com/content/d9c762c5-64dc-42a6-bf87-b830808ec5b6?accessToken=zwAAAZcRdBrbkdPZx2LFZNxCptO_h7gwgI7Ftg.MEQCIC0wrrhR_5mKgUWa_IlJlmyj7NDz_vpefMfdRbfMAW3jAiAWEX6gvXyLBIZPK0ABeWDffsFqvYm9Q1R_4m5mQhVICw&segmentId=e95a9ae7-622c-6235-5f87-51e412b47e97&shareType=enterprise&shareId=cd922bca-54bc-4b9f-8eed-3540cce33e3a
Next year's locals will give us a view on Labour as more in their areas- on May 1 wards the only 3 seats where Labour led were Exeter, Cambridge and Oxford (Dodds seat)
I'd back the Tories to win 50 seats on this poll and be nip and tuck for 3rd with LDs
So now they've established the principle that we are going to be told the race and age and nationality, and whenever they don't, people will assume what they assume
Watching a politician bleed out in real time is rare sport. You don't even have to feel sorry for her because she's tory scum.
If Labour lose the Welfare reform vote LD crossover to second is quite likely too in some polls
It doesn’t help the ‘two tier’ narrative at all though
There's also the paradoxical bit where the worse things get for the party, the safer the leader is. After all, if the parcel being passed is going to blow up, better that it does so in someone else's hands.
Turns out he was bang on. The Tories chose the wrong leader, it should have been Brandon Jenrick. It is maybe too late for them, now
It's always the Times too.
A Sunak failure followed by Truss would likely have been terminal, for example
How hard is it to search the reg and find the owner? That's probably the perp
As more videos emerge it does look like this really is some hideous panic by the driver that turned into utter carnage. Tragic
He might be back in jail very soon. Next month, his trial on charges of harassment causing fear of violence against two Daily Mail journalists begins. He's also got court dates coming up next year for failing to give the PIN for his phone to police when arrested. Presumably Elon Musk will claim this all counts as freedom of speech...
Sixty years later, I’d say the fuss over the way police announce ethnicity & religion of suspects in incidents like yesterdays show it hasn’t worked
Anyway, thank you Ange!
Jenrick might capture a bit of the imagination or crash and burn, he's the high risk, higher potential reward choice who might get them largest party (but nobody is getting them close to majority)
Thing is, to stem and silence the wave of anger - from native populations - democratic governments are having to resort to evermore draconian, anti-democratic means - clamping down on free speech, disbarring politicians and parties, censoring all media, putting people in prison for tweets. Which only makes voters angrier and MORE inclined to vote far right
David Betz is correct. On current trajectories we are headed for civil strife across Europe
https://youtu.be/4HHT_V294Co?si=_-8CZnymTHQWUK6m
Paragraph 2. The reporting yesterday by Merseyside Police seemed perfectly logical to me.
An essential shift which has to happen to avoid disaster is a cultural shift whereby Islam is added to Judaism and Christianity and all three together considered under a common 'Abrahamic monotheistic faith' sort of umbrella, just as at the moment we speak often of the 'Judaeo/Christian' inheritance without finding it a disturbing concept.
There is of course no difficulty in rubbishing all of these traditions (I belong to the Christian one, regularly rubbished by one and all) so it will be uphill, but without it we are in trouble.
Though tbf, some of the most outstandingly brilliant barristers are 'juniors'. David Sherborne for example.
Judaism and Christianity have both undergone this process, there is absolutely no sign of this happening within Islam, indeed it is going in the opposite direction, becoming even more dogmatic, prickly, conservative, aggressive
So how do you solve that? Because unless you solve it, then it seems to me that conservative Islam is incompatible with liberal western freedoms as we know them, and we have imported one hell of a problem
And there aren’t really any LD-Reform marginals/contests (yet!), anyway.
The end of the Tories is nigh, perhaps
If I were a Tory MP I'd be trying to decide whether degenerating the leader, or jumping ship to Reform or the Lib Dems were the better choice for my political future. There's no future in the status quo.
I go out for a cycle,ride every morning and go past a local school. Lots of taxis there. Rinsing the council tax payer. I feel a few ‘close passes’ may need reporting soon.
Indeed, if the political environment looks anything like now or last time, it would make a great constituency bet, as on the figures it looks far more of a long shot than it is.
To Join the Lib Dem’s you need to abandon any principles and simply promise voters whatever they want in the expectation you’ll never have to deliver and to join Reform you’d have to kiss the ring and pledge loyalty to Kim Jong-Farage.
Both are unpalatable