Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Wise words from a pollster – politicalbetting.com

12357

Comments

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,545
    Been about 4-5 days since I was last in the Co-op but there was a lot of empty shelf space. Hope they can get back to normal soon.

    Anyway, I am off for the day. For anyone who missed it earlier, and cares, I slightly modified my title betting with a little on Verstappen at 4 (now 4.1) on Betfair.

    He was faster than the McLarens in the race. Neither could even narrow the gap. For all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, he's very much in this title fight.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,673
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    This looks like a v good deal.

    Britain refused to link the indefinite removal of SPS (which has been a disaster for food exports, and ESPECIALLY seafood) to indefinite extension of Boris’s fishing deal.

    Instead they’ve simply extended the fishing deal for 12 years.

    Boris’s fishing deal IS suboptimal - at least compared with Norway and Iceland, who never sacrificed sovereignty over fishing stocks - but the percentage of quota Europe has been allowed to take has declined year on year, and fishing stocks have been recovering outside the CFP.

    For Farage to claim the fishing industry will now die is a simple lie.

    The other stuff, on youth mobility, passport gates, musician travel, access to criminal databases, and acess to the EU defence fund, is also excellent.

    Again, this is very positive for the UK.

    What is the upper age limit on the Youth Mobility Scheme?
    30.
    Similar to that which UK has with other countries, including NZ.
    Excellent opportunity for UK to attract smart, hard-working Europeans again.
    5-7 years too high. Oh well, a different PM can change it if elected.
    This is an excellent deal for my children, who will be able to take opportunities in Europe denied to them by the Brexit idiots.
    Yes. I agree with this. Never had any problem with nice Spanish kids working in London bars

    Indeed I never had much problem with FoM (tho I accept many did for perfectly valid reasons)

    And yeah this is great for my daughters
    There were absolutely issues with FoM, relating to benefits eligibility, and the sheer scale was disruptive to many communities.

    For me this was outweighed by the significant uptick in smarts and energy overall from reasonably culturally sympathetic incomers.

    A youth mobility scheme, which will be capped, avoids both the issues I mention.
    The problem with FoM was actually on the British side. Because our welfare state is constructed to hand out benefits to the most needy regardless of contribution

    If we’d moved - or do ever move - to a much more sensible contributory system, then FoM would be much more acceptable
    We did move part way. After a while we realised that FOM is freedom to move and work, not be indigent. So the Habitual Residency test was introduced, so a lone parent couldn't just rock up from Romania and claim for herself and her kids. However, if she had been living in the UK for several years and left her partner, she could then claim in the same way as a British person.

    The same applied to people looking for work, but it was a bit less stringent in terms of "time served'. To be honest most of the EU citizens I met were hard working, wanting to make a life for themselves and got a new job pretty soon. The biggest problem were those who had been working in their own community and hadn't found time to learn much English.

    I remember a Romanian LP walking out of the jobcentre in high dudgeon because she had failed her HRT, she was advised to make herself available for work and try for JSA but that just wasn't good enough...

    The stupidest thing was that if a Brit had been working abroad, lost their job or suffered some other misfortune they could lose access to benefits through not passing the HRT. I believe that has now been changed.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,326
    carnforth said:

    Starmer is making a lot of promises about reducing bills

    Hostage to fortune?

    Not much lower for him to sink - I think the lying's baked in now.
    All things being equal, the removal of SPS should reduce food bills modestly.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,577
    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    On Biden, other conditions other than dementia are possible. My partner's best guess is Parkinson's.

    Is she a Doctors receptionist ?
    She's a Doctor specialising in geriatrics.

    Brilliant ability to diagnose a complete stranger from snippets on TV
    It's a guess. But to this layman, it does fit Biden's mobility issues and, to be accurate, dementia is better described as a group of symptoms, of which Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and other diseases can be the underlying cause.

    In fact, it might be part the reason why the prostate cancer diagnosis came a bit late. Urinary issues are also an symptom.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,577

    Andy_JS said:

    Radio 4: M&S and Co-op still haven't sorted out their cyber attack problems. They still have empty shelves, as well as M&S online shopping continuing to be inoperative.

    I was in a Co-Op the other day, the shelves were bare.
    Even if they've fixed the issue, there will be an enormous backlog. Makes me sad thinking of all the food waste.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,119

    carnforth said:

    British Meat Processors welcome the deal, and point out the b;leeding obvious:

    "A common misunderstanding is that an SPS agreement will mean Britain becomes a ‘rule taker’. In reality, we must comply with the rules of any of our trading partners if we want to export to them – just like America must comply with British rules if they want to send us their products."

    It truly is weaponised stupidity and ignorance from the wazzocks who parrot the line about us being a "rule taker". You want to trade with a counterparty? You have to fit their requirements.

    You don't get to dictate to them that they should do whatever you say, no matter how often the Tories say it. What makes it worse is that morons like Gullis aside, the Tories saying this guff *know it isn't true*. They just assume the person listening doesn't know any better and thus will believe the lie they are telling.

    An SPS agreements means our own rules have to match, for all food produced here, not just for that which is exported to the country in question. That's the difference, isn't it? We're not ruletakers wrt Japan, for example, but we will be wrt Europe now. Yet we will export to both. Pretending those two aren't different situations is silly.
    Correct.

    Ideally we would have “equivalence”, but the EU won’t concede.

    We are promised certain exceptions from dynamic aligbment, and some modest abilty to input into new rule-making, but we’ll also be expected to put some small amount of money in.

    The devil might be in the detail, but food exporters, andf food lovers, should be rejoicing today. I hope this reverses the loss in variety and quality evident on British shelves.
    We have equivalence - our standards are their standards on practically everything. The notion that we would be "rule makers" was for the birds - we couldn't make the rules for our exports to the EU any more than we can for any market. Sovereignty is a two-way street and our customers get to dictate what they are willing to accept.

    I've just been reviewing the government publication with Big Client technical standards - its fantastic news

    At the moment to import food into the UK you need to have farms / abattoirs / factories certified for export, need traceability paperwork for every component, vets to sign off health, a ream of import documents which customs don't look at for 10 days after you make the import. All to import food which is the same standard on both sides of the border.

    This whole rigmarole goes in the bin because the existing European SPS framework we left 17 months ago is being extended to cover GB again.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/682afb7002662c6f8ec243ef/UK_EU_Summit_-_Common_Understanding.pdf
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,792
    They should hurry up and agree the youth “experience” scheme ASAP. Get it started this year. London needs those European kids - they brought energy and fun

    It does look like Labour have shafted the fishermen. Again. But they can likely get away with that

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,102

    Starmer's going to talk constantly about rolling up his sleeves, isn't he?

    "Every time I walk into a room, a fight seems to break out."
  • isamisam Posts: 41,704

    isam said:

    isam said:

    This looks like a v good deal.

    Britain refused to link the indefinite removal of SPS (which has been a disaster for food exports, and ESPECIALLY seafood) to indefinite extension of Boris’s fishing deal.

    Instead they’ve simply extended the fishing deal for 12 years.

    Boris’s fishing deal IS suboptimal - at least compared with Norway and Iceland, who never sacrificed sovereignty over fishing stocks - but the percentage of quota Europe has been allowed to take has declined year on year, and fishing stocks have been recovering outside the CFP.

    For Farage to claim the fishing industry will now die is a simple lie.

    The other stuff, on youth mobility, passport gates, musician travel, access to criminal databases, and acess to the EU defence fund, is also excellent.

    Again, this is very positive for the UK.

    What is the upper age limit on the Youth Mobility Scheme?
    30.
    Similar to that which UK has with other countries, including NZ.
    Excellent opportunity for UK to attract smart, hard-working Europeans again.
    5-7 years too high. Oh well, a different PM can change it if elected.
    This is an excellent deal for my children, who will be able to take opportunities in Europe denied to them by the Brexit idiots.
    If they’re under 23 I’m pleased for them. The problem never was with youngsters doing a year or two abroad, I think it’s great
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,326
    edited 12:10PM
    Leon said:

    They should hurry up and agree the youth “experience” scheme ASAP. Get it started this year. London needs those European kids - they brought energy and fun

    It does look like Labour have shafted the fishermen. Again. But they can likely get away with that

    They really haven’t.
    They have opened up the ability to sell their seafood to Europe in a much less restricted way.

    It’s not perfect.
    The original shafting was in the 1970s, and Boris unshafted them just a bit, but screwed their exporting abilities.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,792

    carnforth said:

    British Meat Processors welcome the deal, and point out the b;leeding obvious:

    "A common misunderstanding is that an SPS agreement will mean Britain becomes a ‘rule taker’. In reality, we must comply with the rules of any of our trading partners if we want to export to them – just like America must comply with British rules if they want to send us their products."

    It truly is weaponised stupidity and ignorance from the wazzocks who parrot the line about us being a "rule taker". You want to trade with a counterparty? You have to fit their requirements.

    You don't get to dictate to them that they should do whatever you say, no matter how often the Tories say it. What makes it worse is that morons like Gullis aside, the Tories saying this guff *know it isn't true*. They just assume the person listening doesn't know any better and thus will believe the lie they are telling.

    An SPS agreements means our own rules have to match, for all food produced here, not just for that which is exported to the country in question. That's the difference, isn't it? We're not ruletakers wrt Japan, for example, but we will be wrt Europe now. Yet we will export to both. Pretending those two aren't different situations is silly.
    Correct.

    Ideally we would have “equivalence”, but the EU won’t concede.

    We are promised certain exceptions from dynamic aligbment, and some modest abilty to input into new rule-making, but we’ll also be expected to put some small amount of money in.

    The devil might be in the detail, but food exporters, andf food lovers, should be rejoicing today. I hope this reverses the loss in variety and quality evident on British shelves.
    We have equivalence - our standards are their standards on practically everything. The notion that we would be "rule makers" was for the birds - we couldn't make the rules for our exports to the EU any more than we can for any market. Sovereignty is a two-way street and our customers get to dictate what they are willing to accept.

    I've just been reviewing the government publication with Big Client technical standards - its fantastic news

    At the moment to import food into the UK you need to have farms / abattoirs / factories certified for export, need traceability paperwork for every component, vets to sign off health, a ream of import documents which customs don't look at for 10 days after you make the import. All to import food which is the same standard on both sides of the border.

    This whole rigmarole goes in the bin because the existing European SPS framework we left 17 months ago is being extended to cover GB again.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/682afb7002662c6f8ec243ef/UK_EU_Summit_-_Common_Understanding.pdf
    I’m tentatively prepared to say Starmer might have done something good here, overall

    This comment is especially for the enjoyment of @kinabalu
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,227
    algarkirk said:

    dixiedean said:
    This is similar to one of Lord Denning's celebrated judgments, about cricket balls. Nothing on earth was going to get Denning to stop people playing cricket. Miller v Jackson. Few write judgments in this style today.

    https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/1977/6.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_v_Jackson#:~:text=Lord Denning MR dissented from,any past or future damage".
    Miserabilist is about right. It was an estimated ball every 2 days at the start, and the school then took measures such as a net over the pitch.

    The buggers still took legal action over as I take it the earlier period. If you move in next to a school, expect games.

    "We can no longer use our swimming pool." FFS. They are worth North of £20m.

    At least the Judge only gave them nominal damages, and refused to issue a ban. It's time for the school to introduce outdoor band practice, and develop a Kazoo Parade Band like in Yank Land.

    A big hedge would cost less than the Court Fees.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,589
    "Intelligence Brief on Drones in Ukraine", Ryan McBeth, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xN__ozrbpk, 51 minutes
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,792

    Leon said:

    They should hurry up and agree the youth “experience” scheme ASAP. Get it started this year. London needs those European kids - they brought energy and fun

    It does look like Labour have shafted the fishermen. Again. But they can likely get away with that

    They really haven’t.
    They have opened up the ability to sell their seafood to Europe in a much less restricted way.

    It’s not perfect.
    The original shafting was in the 1970s, and Boris unshafted them just a bit, but screwed their exporting abilities.
    Tell that to the fisheries organisations already screaming Betrayal. They’re not happy. At all
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,977
    Leon said:

    They should hurry up and agree the youth “experience” scheme ASAP. Get it started this year. London needs those European kids - they brought energy and fun

    It does look like Labour have shafted the fishermen. Again. But they can likely get away with that

    The Telegraph and Mail are in full battie-cry mode. End of the world, Churchill would be furious, etc.

    Another couple of points from Labour to Reform, but also possibly from Lib Dems and Green to Labour ? This youth mobility and e-passport stuff goes down well in Remainia.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,326
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    They should hurry up and agree the youth “experience” scheme ASAP. Get it started this year. London needs those European kids - they brought energy and fun

    It does look like Labour have shafted the fishermen. Again. But they can likely get away with that

    They really haven’t.
    They have opened up the ability to sell their seafood to Europe in a much less restricted way.

    It’s not perfect.
    The original shafting was in the 1970s, and Boris unshafted them just a bit, but screwed their exporting abilities.
    Tell that to the fisheries organisations already screaming Betrayal. They’re not happy. At all
    I honestly suspect them as captured by partisan Reform types.

    Ideally we would have the same fisheries arrangement as Norway. However, we have to deal with realpolitik. We need the European export market.

    Maybe in 2037.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,122
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    This looks like a v good deal.

    Britain refused to link the indefinite removal of SPS (which has been a disaster for food exports, and ESPECIALLY seafood) to indefinite extension of Boris’s fishing deal.

    Instead they’ve simply extended the fishing deal for 12 years.

    Boris’s fishing deal IS suboptimal - at least compared with Norway and Iceland, who never sacrificed sovereignty over fishing stocks - but the percentage of quota Europe has been allowed to take has declined year on year, and fishing stocks have been recovering outside the CFP.

    For Farage to claim the fishing industry will now die is a simple lie.

    The other stuff, on youth mobility, passport gates, musician travel, access to criminal databases, and acess to the EU defence fund, is also excellent.

    Again, this is very positive for the UK.

    What is the upper age limit on the Youth Mobility Scheme?
    30.
    Similar to that which UK has with other countries, including NZ.
    Excellent opportunity for UK to attract smart, hard-working Europeans again.
    5-7 years too high. Oh well, a different PM can change it if elected.
    This is an excellent deal for my children, who will be able to take opportunities in Europe denied to them by the Brexit idiots.
    If they’re under 23 I’m pleased for them. The problem never was with youngsters doing a year or two abroad, I think it’s great
    How many British children, really, seek out work opportunities in non-Anglophone abroadland? A tiny minority, surely?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,326
    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    This looks like a v good deal.

    Britain refused to link the indefinite removal of SPS (which has been a disaster for food exports, and ESPECIALLY seafood) to indefinite extension of Boris’s fishing deal.

    Instead they’ve simply extended the fishing deal for 12 years.

    Boris’s fishing deal IS suboptimal - at least compared with Norway and Iceland, who never sacrificed sovereignty over fishing stocks - but the percentage of quota Europe has been allowed to take has declined year on year, and fishing stocks have been recovering outside the CFP.

    For Farage to claim the fishing industry will now die is a simple lie.

    The other stuff, on youth mobility, passport gates, musician travel, access to criminal databases, and acess to the EU defence fund, is also excellent.

    Again, this is very positive for the UK.

    What is the upper age limit on the Youth Mobility Scheme?
    30.
    Similar to that which UK has with other countries, including NZ.
    Excellent opportunity for UK to attract smart, hard-working Europeans again.
    5-7 years too high. Oh well, a different PM can change it if elected.
    This is an excellent deal for my children, who will be able to take opportunities in Europe denied to them by the Brexit idiots.
    If they’re under 23 I’m pleased for them. The problem never was with youngsters doing a year or two abroad, I think it’s great
    How many British children, really, seek out work opportunities in non-Anglophone abroadland? A tiny minority, surely?
    My brother, admittedly, British by descent, now has Belgian citizenship due to his years spent there.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,142
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    British Meat Processors welcome the deal, and point out the b;leeding obvious:

    "A common misunderstanding is that an SPS agreement will mean Britain becomes a ‘rule taker’. In reality, we must comply with the rules of any of our trading partners if we want to export to them – just like America must comply with British rules if they want to send us their products."

    It truly is weaponised stupidity and ignorance from the wazzocks who parrot the line about us being a "rule taker". You want to trade with a counterparty? You have to fit their requirements.

    You don't get to dictate to them that they should do whatever you say, no matter how often the Tories say it. What makes it worse is that morons like Gullis aside, the Tories saying this guff *know it isn't true*. They just assume the person listening doesn't know any better and thus will believe the lie they are telling.

    An SPS agreements means our own rules have to match, for all food produced here, not just for that which is exported to the country in question. That's the difference, isn't it? We're not ruletakers wrt Japan, for example, but we will be wrt Europe now. Yet we will export to both. Pretending those two aren't different situations is silly.
    Correct.

    Ideally we would have “equivalence”, but the EU won’t concede.

    We are promised certain exceptions from dynamic aligbment, and some modest abilty to input into new rule-making, but we’ll also be expected to put some small amount of money in.

    The devil might be in the detail, but food exporters, andf food lovers, should be rejoicing today. I hope this reverses the loss in variety and quality evident on British shelves.
    We have equivalence - our standards are their standards on practically everything. The notion that we would be "rule makers" was for the birds - we couldn't make the rules for our exports to the EU any more than we can for any market. Sovereignty is a two-way street and our customers get to dictate what they are willing to accept.

    I've just been reviewing the government publication with Big Client technical standards - its fantastic news

    At the moment to import food into the UK you need to have farms / abattoirs / factories certified for export, need traceability paperwork for every component, vets to sign off health, a ream of import documents which customs don't look at for 10 days after you make the import. All to import food which is the same standard on both sides of the border.

    This whole rigmarole goes in the bin because the existing European SPS framework we left 17 months ago is being extended to cover GB again.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/682afb7002662c6f8ec243ef/UK_EU_Summit_-_Common_Understanding.pdf
    I’m tentatively prepared to say Starmer might have done something good here, overall

    This comment is especially for the enjoyment of @kinabalu
    He's like the postman. No fuss, no drama, just delivery.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,282
    Farage and to an extent Badenoch need take care in attacking this agreement

    There is much to welcome and the only real objection is the sell out of the fishermen

    Furthermore this is not a pathway to rejoining
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,227
    edited 12:19PM
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    They should hurry up and agree the youth “experience” scheme ASAP. Get it started this year. London needs those European kids - they brought energy and fun

    It does look like Labour have shafted the fishermen. Again. But they can likely get away with that

    They really haven’t.
    They have opened up the ability to sell their seafood to Europe in a much less restricted way.

    It’s not perfect.
    The original shafting was in the 1970s, and Boris unshafted them just a bit, but screwed their exporting abilities.
    Tell that to the fisheries organisations already screaming Betrayal. They’re not happy. At all
    I'm not sure there's much to that. The fishing industry makes less than before Brexit aiui.

    What we need from Mr Starmer is appropriate enforcement, not timid little mouse. Ideally we need a Government Department for Exploiting the EU Relationship.

    I think we should still be able to, for example, ban Dutch Hoover Trawlers, scallop dredging, do extensive inspections, and so on. It's all in the detail and the implementation.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,436
    edited 12:17PM
    I would not be surprised to see the youth scheme only be the start of a slow shift back to FOM. It won’t happen overnight, and it won’t look the same as it did inside the EU, but once people have got comfortable with the concepts it will seem odd not to have extensions to this. Those kids will get older, and they’ll ask the question why it can’t work for economically active adults too (or retirees with enough to support themselves).

    The only thing that will hold it up is EU reform in this area, though I suspect that’s coming down the line too.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,326
    Britain has a unique opportunity here to regain its position as THE global entrepôt after years of the shouting to the world that it was closed for business.

    Don’t let the Mail/Telegraph/Reform ruin it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,792

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    They should hurry up and agree the youth “experience” scheme ASAP. Get it started this year. London needs those European kids - they brought energy and fun

    It does look like Labour have shafted the fishermen. Again. But they can likely get away with that

    They really haven’t.
    They have opened up the ability to sell their seafood to Europe in a much less restricted way.

    It’s not perfect.
    The original shafting was in the 1970s, and Boris unshafted them just a bit, but screwed their exporting abilities.
    Tell that to the fisheries organisations already screaming Betrayal. They’re not happy. At all
    I honestly suspect them as captured by partisan Reform types.

    Ideally we would have the same fisheries arrangement as Norway. However, we have to deal with realpolitik. We need the European export market.

    Maybe in 2037.
    Yes. That’s how I see it

    Fact is, Britain is weak and menaced as it has not been for many many decades. However so is the EU - from Russia, China, Trump

    Both sides need each other. Both sides have to make compromises to gain the strength from greater size and clout

    It’s sad about the fisheries but what can we do? Something had to give; that was our leverage; and it looks like Starmer HAS got important things in return

    All we need now is the return of the right to go live in the algarve over the age of 60 and I’m happy
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,977
    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    This looks like a v good deal.

    Britain refused to link the indefinite removal of SPS (which has been a disaster for food exports, and ESPECIALLY seafood) to indefinite extension of Boris’s fishing deal.

    Instead they’ve simply extended the fishing deal for 12 years.

    Boris’s fishing deal IS suboptimal - at least compared with Norway and Iceland, who never sacrificed sovereignty over fishing stocks - but the percentage of quota Europe has been allowed to take has declined year on year, and fishing stocks have been recovering outside the CFP.

    For Farage to claim the fishing industry will now die is a simple lie.

    The other stuff, on youth mobility, passport gates, musician travel, access to criminal databases, and acess to the EU defence fund, is also excellent.

    Again, this is very positive for the UK.

    What is the upper age limit on the Youth Mobility Scheme?
    30.
    Similar to that which UK has with other countries, including NZ.
    Excellent opportunity for UK to attract smart, hard-working Europeans again.
    5-7 years too high. Oh well, a different PM can change it if elected.
    This is an excellent deal for my children, who will be able to take opportunities in Europe denied to them by the Brexit idiots.
    If they’re under 23 I’m pleased for them. The problem never was with youngsters doing a year or two abroad, I think it’s great
    How many British children, really, seek out work opportunities in non-Anglophone abroadland? A tiny minority, surely?
    Not in London. I know several people's kids who want to go to the Continent.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,472
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    They should hurry up and agree the youth “experience” scheme ASAP. Get it started this year. London needs those European kids - they brought energy and fun

    It does look like Labour have shafted the fishermen. Again. But they can likely get away with that

    They really haven’t.
    They have opened up the ability to sell their seafood to Europe in a much less restricted way.

    It’s not perfect.
    The original shafting was in the 1970s, and Boris unshafted them just a bit, but screwed their exporting abilities.
    Tell that to the fisheries organisations already screaming Betrayal. They’re not happy. At all
    The salmon industry are happy and so should those that want to export shellfish . You can’t please everyone .
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,792
    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    This looks like a v good deal.

    Britain refused to link the indefinite removal of SPS (which has been a disaster for food exports, and ESPECIALLY seafood) to indefinite extension of Boris’s fishing deal.

    Instead they’ve simply extended the fishing deal for 12 years.

    Boris’s fishing deal IS suboptimal - at least compared with Norway and Iceland, who never sacrificed sovereignty over fishing stocks - but the percentage of quota Europe has been allowed to take has declined year on year, and fishing stocks have been recovering outside the CFP.

    For Farage to claim the fishing industry will now die is a simple lie.

    The other stuff, on youth mobility, passport gates, musician travel, access to criminal databases, and acess to the EU defence fund, is also excellent.

    Again, this is very positive for the UK.

    What is the upper age limit on the Youth Mobility Scheme?
    30.
    Similar to that which UK has with other countries, including NZ.
    Excellent opportunity for UK to attract smart, hard-working Europeans again.
    5-7 years too high. Oh well, a different PM can change it if elected.
    This is an excellent deal for my children, who will be able to take opportunities in Europe denied to them by the Brexit idiots.
    If they’re under 23 I’m pleased for them. The problem never was with youngsters doing a year or two abroad, I think it’s great
    How many British children, really, seek out work opportunities in non-Anglophone abroadland? A tiny minority, surely?
    Not a tiny minority at all. Lots of British kids - of all classes - used to go and work in Mediterranean resorts in the summer. That’s just one example
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,142

    Leon said:

    They should hurry up and agree the youth “experience” scheme ASAP. Get it started this year. London needs those European kids - they brought energy and fun

    It does look like Labour have shafted the fishermen. Again. But they can likely get away with that

    The Telegraph and Mail are in full battie-cry mode. End of the world, Churchill would be furious, etc.

    Another couple of points from Labour to Reform, but also possibly from Lib Dems and Green to Labour ? This youth mobility and e-passport stuff goes down well in Remainia.
    Yes it's great. Vibrant young people coming and going as the mood takes them.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,303
    If you are interested in UBI, and similar subjects, you might want to take a look at the US experience with the Earned Income Tax Credit: "The United States federal earned income tax credit or earned income credit (EITC or EIC) is a refundable tax credit for low- to moderate-income working individuals and couples, particularly those with children. The amount of EITC benefit depends on a recipient's income and number of children. Low-income adults with no children are eligible.[1] For a person or couple to claim one or more persons as their qualifying child, requirements such as relationship, age, and shared residency must be met."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_income_tax_credit

    And if you are seriously interested in such subjects, you may want to dig up an account of a small experiment done in New Jersey during -- as I recall -- the Nixon administration. A negative income tax resulted in, among other things, more marriage break-ups.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,704
    edited 12:20PM
    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    This looks like a v good deal.

    Britain refused to link the indefinite removal of SPS (which has been a disaster for food exports, and ESPECIALLY seafood) to indefinite extension of Boris’s fishing deal.

    Instead they’ve simply extended the fishing deal for 12 years.

    Boris’s fishing deal IS suboptimal - at least compared with Norway and Iceland, who never sacrificed sovereignty over fishing stocks - but the percentage of quota Europe has been allowed to take has declined year on year, and fishing stocks have been recovering outside the CFP.

    For Farage to claim the fishing industry will now die is a simple lie.

    The other stuff, on youth mobility, passport gates, musician travel, access to criminal databases, and acess to the EU defence fund, is also excellent.

    Again, this is very positive for the UK.

    What is the upper age limit on the Youth Mobility Scheme?
    30.
    Similar to that which UK has with other countries, including NZ.
    Excellent opportunity for UK to attract smart, hard-working Europeans again.
    5-7 years too high. Oh well, a different PM can change it if elected.
    This is an excellent deal for my children, who will be able to take opportunities in Europe denied to them by the Brexit idiots.
    If they’re under 23 I’m pleased for them. The problem never was with youngsters doing a year or two abroad, I think it’s great
    How many British children, really, seek out work opportunities in non-Anglophone abroadland? A tiny minority, surely?
    Gap year types I suppose, but I think it’s fair enough. The problem will be 27-30 year old Eastern European labourers, Badenoch is already using this argument.. I can’t see why they didn’t keep it to regular student age. I can remember being 21, and people 25+ were not part of the youth
  • isamisam Posts: 41,704
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    This looks like a v good deal.

    Britain refused to link the indefinite removal of SPS (which has been a disaster for food exports, and ESPECIALLY seafood) to indefinite extension of Boris’s fishing deal.

    Instead they’ve simply extended the fishing deal for 12 years.

    Boris’s fishing deal IS suboptimal - at least compared with Norway and Iceland, who never sacrificed sovereignty over fishing stocks - but the percentage of quota Europe has been allowed to take has declined year on year, and fishing stocks have been recovering outside the CFP.

    For Farage to claim the fishing industry will now die is a simple lie.

    The other stuff, on youth mobility, passport gates, musician travel, access to criminal databases, and acess to the EU defence fund, is also excellent.

    Again, this is very positive for the UK.

    What is the upper age limit on the Youth Mobility Scheme?
    30.
    Similar to that which UK has with other countries, including NZ.
    Excellent opportunity for UK to attract smart, hard-working Europeans again.
    5-7 years too high. Oh well, a different PM can change it if elected.
    This is an excellent deal for my children, who will be able to take opportunities in Europe denied to them by the Brexit idiots.
    If they’re under 23 I’m pleased for them. The problem never was with youngsters doing a year or two abroad, I think it’s great
    How many British children, really, seek out work opportunities in non-Anglophone abroadland? A tiny minority, surely?
    Not a tiny minority at all. Lots of British kids - of all classes - used to go and work in Mediterranean resorts in the summer. That’s just one example
    I did it myself, but it’s on a handshake isn’t it?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,472
    Good questions from the foreign press . Typical tripe from the UK based journalists, Chris Mason in particular, utterly pathetic.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,227
    edited 12:27PM
    MaxPB said:

    Has anyone got a summary of what the changes are for the EU deal? It seems to be a bunch of nothing so far other than extending EU fishing rights for 12 years.

    This is the Sky summary, which I would not take as complete. We need a nerd summary.

    This says Pet Passports agreed amongst other things. That has potential to be positive for Starmer, but it will be "feel" rather than addressing the people and the bots in the Daily Mail and GB News comments.

    https://news.sky.com/story/uk-eu-trade-deal-what-is-in-the-brexit-reset-agreement-13370912
  • isamisam Posts: 41,704

    I would not be surprised to see the youth scheme only be the start of a slow shift back to FOM. It won’t happen overnight, and it won’t look the same as it did inside the EU, but once people have got comfortable with the concepts it will seem odd not to have extensions to this. Those kids will get older, and they’ll ask the question why it can’t work for economically active adults too (or retirees with enough to support themselves).

    The only thing that will hold it up is EU reform in this area, though I suspect that’s coming down the line too.

    If people don’t like it, they can vote for a party that will scrap it. That’s the beauty of Leave winning. I said all along, I’d be happy for our PM to negotiate any deal with the EU, even FOM, because we can change PM and the new one can change the deal, as we are seeing with Starmer. The only betrayal of Brexit was people trying to block the result being implemented; after that it’s down to the judgement of whoever is PM how we relate with EU
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,608
    MattW said:

    This is the Sky summary, which says Pet Passports agreed. That has potential to be positive for Starmer, but it will be "feel" rather than addressing the people and the bots in the Daily Mail and GB News comments.

    https://news.sky.com/story/uk-eu-trade-deal-what-is-in-the-brexit-reset-agreement-13370912

    Yeah!!!!. Such a stupid trivial thing to have lost. Irrelevant to most people, but a real pain in the arse to many of us making spur of the minute holiday plans impossible.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,859
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    This looks like a v good deal.

    Britain refused to link the indefinite removal of SPS (which has been a disaster for food exports, and ESPECIALLY seafood) to indefinite extension of Boris’s fishing deal.

    Instead they’ve simply extended the fishing deal for 12 years.

    Boris’s fishing deal IS suboptimal - at least compared with Norway and Iceland, who never sacrificed sovereignty over fishing stocks - but the percentage of quota Europe has been allowed to take has declined year on year, and fishing stocks have been recovering outside the CFP.

    For Farage to claim the fishing industry will now die is a simple lie.

    The other stuff, on youth mobility, passport gates, musician travel, access to criminal databases, and acess to the EU defence fund, is also excellent.

    Again, this is very positive for the UK.

    What is the upper age limit on the Youth Mobility Scheme?
    30.
    Similar to that which UK has with other countries, including NZ.
    Excellent opportunity for UK to attract smart, hard-working Europeans again.
    5-7 years too high. Oh well, a different PM can change it if elected.
    This is an excellent deal for my children, who will be able to take opportunities in Europe denied to them by the Brexit idiots.
    If they’re under 23 I’m pleased for them. The problem never was with youngsters doing a year or two abroad, I think it’s great
    How many British children, really, seek out work opportunities in non-Anglophone abroadland? A tiny minority, surely?
    Not a tiny minority at all. Lots of British kids - of all classes - used to go and work in Mediterranean resorts in the summer. That’s just one example
    They used to do so when it wasn't legal to do so. Trying to entice punters into bars and clubs, and then if the police showed up, making out they were on holiday.

    I guess it is still going on that way now.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,792
    Now all Starmer has to do is

    1 stop all the boats and clear the hotels
    2 get the Boriswave to go home
    3 reduce migration to under 150k
    4 clean up our streets, stop shoplifting, make our cities prettier again
    5 make us all just a tiny bit richer

    And I might even vote for him. AGAIN
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,469
    @IanDunn479

    Salmon Scotland calls the fishery deal a "breakthrough".
    "We congratulate the UK government on securing this deal with the EU which will slash the time to get premium salmon to market," says Tavish Scott, CEO of Salmon Scotland
    Scottish salmon is the UK’s largest fish export.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,272
    Leon said:

    Now all Starmer has to do is

    1 stop all the boats and clear the hotels
    2 get the Boriswave to go home
    3 reduce migration to under 150k
    4 clean up our streets, stop shoplifting, make our cities prettier again
    5 make us all just a tiny bit richer

    And I might even vote for him. AGAIN

    There are videos on social media of migrants being moved out of hotels and into HMOs in places like Bishop Auckland, so they may be solving one problem by creating a bigger one.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,792

    Farage and to an extent Badenoch need take care in attacking this agreement

    There is much to welcome and the only real objection is the sell out of the fishermen

    Furthermore this is not a pathway to rejoining

    Nigel is starting to look a bit of a moaning minnie quite frankly. Yes, this plays well with much of his base, but not everyone gets a masochistic thrill at being trapped in the political cycle of doom. Nigel should learn from Boris and appreciate the merits of sowing a little sunshine. He's unlikely to become PM if everyone things his tenure will be one continuous migraine of complaint.
    Agree. The daily mail likewise


    A lot of Brits will welcome many of these things. Very few people wanted the hard Brexit we got

    We are still very much outside the EU’s hideous political structure, which was the main intent of Leave
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,119
    nico67 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    They should hurry up and agree the youth “experience” scheme ASAP. Get it started this year. London needs those European kids - they brought energy and fun

    It does look like Labour have shafted the fishermen. Again. But they can likely get away with that

    They really haven’t.
    They have opened up the ability to sell their seafood to Europe in a much less restricted way.

    It’s not perfect.
    The original shafting was in the 1970s, and Boris unshafted them just a bit, but screwed their exporting abilities.
    Tell that to the fisheries organisations already screaming Betrayal. They’re not happy. At all
    The salmon industry are happy and so should those that want to export shellfish . You can’t please everyone .
    There isn't one "fishing industry". The disparate parts have wildly differing priorities. Trade deal for shellfish and salmon is exactly what they have been lobbying for. The SFF people screeching about how bad this deal is describe the "betrayals of 1973 and 2020" on their "info"graphic. You can't please them, unless we get to fish in Iceland and Norway and they don't get to fish here.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,142

    Farage and to an extent Badenoch need take care in attacking this agreement

    There is much to welcome and the only real objection is the sell out of the fishermen

    Furthermore this is not a pathway to rejoining

    Nigel is starting to look a bit of a moaning minnie quite frankly. Yes, this plays well with much of his base, but not everyone gets a masochistic thrill at being trapped in the political cycle of doom. Nigel should learn from Boris and appreciate the merits of sowing a little sunshine. He's unlikely to become PM if everyone things his tenure will be one continuous migraine of complaint.
    But he needs a dark, troubled, inward looking country since only a place like that will elect him.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 216

    Britain has a unique opportunity here to regain its position as THE global entrepôt after years of the shouting to the world that it was closed for business.

    Don’t let the Mail/Telegraph/Reform ruin it.

    Sorry we were 'the global entrepot'? That must have passed me by.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,057

    Farage and to an extent Badenoch need take care in attacking this agreement

    There is much to welcome and the only real objection is the sell out of the fishermen

    Furthermore this is not a pathway to rejoining

    Nigel is starting to look a bit of a moaning minnie quite frankly. Yes, this plays well with much of his base, but not everyone gets a masochistic thrill at being trapped in the political cycle of doom. Nigel should learn from Boris and appreciate the merits of sowing a little sunshine. He's unlikely to become PM if everyone things his tenure will be one continuous migraine of complaint.
    .. like his mate Trump.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,859

    Starmer's going to talk constantly about rolling up his sleeves, isn't he?

    He could always get some short sleeved shirts to save the bother.*

    Or is it the jacket sleeves, for a 1980s retro look?


    *A short sleeved shirt and a tie is a very bad look. Just add some pens in the top pocket a full-on engineer vibe.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,469
    @Keir_Starmer

    Other government’s dithered and delayed.

    My government is getting on with the job and is delivering in the national interest.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,431
    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    On Biden, other conditions other than dementia are possible. My partner's best guess is Parkinson's.

    Is she a Doctors receptionist ?
    She's a Doctor specialising in geriatrics.

    Brilliant ability to diagnose a complete stranger from snippets on TV
    "Other conditions are possible...best guess.." is not a diagnosis.
    The post you mocked was pointing out pretty well the same thing you're saying.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,704
    edited 12:36PM

    Leon said:

    Now all Starmer has to do is

    1 stop all the boats and clear the hotels
    2 get the Boriswave to go home
    3 reduce migration to under 150k
    4 clean up our streets, stop shoplifting, make our cities prettier again
    5 make us all just a tiny bit richer

    And I might even vote for him. AGAIN

    There are videos on social media of migrants being moved out of hotels and into HMOs in places like Bishop Auckland, so they may be solving one problem by creating a bigger one.
    Farage has almost stopped talking about Brexit and moved on to the small boat problem. Dan Hodges noted today how dropping the B-word from the party name was a tell.

    Rich people will be buying up property and renting it out to the govt via Serco for the 5 year above market rate deal. The illegals will be the new neighbours for strugglers in run down areas
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,472
    edited 12:37PM
    Quite funny the BBC coverage has Ode To Joy playing in the background from Steve Bray .
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,792

    Leon said:

    Now all Starmer has to do is

    1 stop all the boats and clear the hotels
    2 get the Boriswave to go home
    3 reduce migration to under 150k
    4 clean up our streets, stop shoplifting, make our cities prettier again
    5 make us all just a tiny bit richer

    And I might even vote for him. AGAIN

    There are videos on social media of migrants being moved out of hotels and into HMOs in places like Bishop Auckland, so they may be solving one problem by creating a bigger one.
    Yup
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,846
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Now all Starmer has to do is

    1 stop all the boats and clear the hotels
    2 get the Boriswave to go home
    3 reduce migration to under 150k
    4 clean up our streets, stop shoplifting, make our cities prettier again
    5 make us all just a tiny bit richer

    And I might even vote for him. AGAIN

    There are videos on social media of migrants being moved out of hotels and into HMOs in places like Bishop Auckland, so they may be solving one problem by creating a bigger one.
    Farage has almost stopped talking about Brexit and moved on to the small boat problem. Dan Hodges noted today how dropping the B-word from the party name was a tell.

    Rich people will be buying up property and renting it out to the govt via Serco for the 5 year above market rate deal. The illegals will be the new neighbours for strugglers in run down areas
    To be fair Brexit has happened so having a Brexit party would be somewhat pointless.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,326
    Leon said:

    Now all Starmer has to do is

    1 stop all the boats and clear the hotels
    2 get the Boriswave to go home
    3 reduce migration to under 150k
    4 clean up our streets, stop shoplifting, make our cities prettier again
    5 make us all just a tiny bit richer

    And I might even vote for him. AGAIN

    6 Fix housing costs
    7 Fix childcare costs
    8 Keep expanding transport capacity
    9 Remove tax penalties on workers approaching 100k

    Special Brucie Bonus for untangling council tax, stamp duty and local government fiscal problems.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,227
    edited 12:39PM
    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    This is the Sky summary, which says Pet Passports agreed. That has potential to be positive for Starmer, but it will be "feel" rather than addressing the people and the bots in the Daily Mail and GB News comments.

    https://news.sky.com/story/uk-eu-trade-deal-what-is-in-the-brexit-reset-agreement-13370912

    Yeah!!!!. Such a stupid trivial thing to have lost. Irrelevant to most people, but a real pain in the arse to many of us making spur of the minute holiday plans impossible.
    There are 30% more dogs here than there were 5-10 years ago (estimates are quite varied but all have the same trend). That's maybe an extra 3-4% of the population owning one or several. It won't swing that many votes, perhaps, but it's a .. er .. positive stroke for the Govt vote.

    Cats are also up, but I don't think Tibbles gets taken on international holidays usually (caravanners and campavanners maybe excepted) - single cat ladies may know more than I do.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,666

    Andy_JS said:

    Most people probably want jobs that are slightly better paid and slightly more interesting than the ones they're doing. They don't want the government to give them a bit of extra money so they can spend more time sitting on the sofa staring at a screen. But the elites would love that because it gives them another opportunity to feel superior to ordinary people, which explains the popularity of UBI with the think-tank set.

    The point is not to give anyone more money. It is to remove the bizarre incentives and cliff edges.

    We already give unemployed people money. Probably more than £12k in many cases.
    We also spend a vast amount chasing people about over tiny amounts.

    Give them the 12k. End of.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,704
    Farage isn’t playing the centrists game yet

    In response to Nigel Farage being told members are leaving Reform for Homeland because they want a tougher stance on illegal immigration

    Nigel says "GOOD"

    Then says he wants to go back to the rules under the last Labour government in 2010

    SERIOUSLY NIGEL? WHAT???

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1924393123049877507?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,227
    My photo quota, the Mexican sailing ship that hit the Brooklyn Bridge in NY. It has steel masts.



    Video from my favourite shipping channel.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIlRiauatEo
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,119

    Andy_JS said:

    Most people probably want jobs that are slightly better paid and slightly more interesting than the ones they're doing. They don't want the government to give them a bit of extra money so they can spend more time sitting on the sofa staring at a screen. But the elites would love that because it gives them another opportunity to feel superior to ordinary people, which explains the popularity of UBI with the think-tank set.

    The point is not to give anyone more money. It is to remove the bizarre incentives and cliff edges.

    We already give unemployed people money. Probably more than £12k in many cases.
    We also spend a vast amount chasing people about over tiny amounts.

    Give them the 12k. End of.
    That is my ballpark starting place. Give everyone the tax free allowance in cash. But that removes practically all welfare payments (with exceptions for things like severe disability needs which are based on medical not financial considerations). And all income is taxed - if you work, you pay.

    It would be expensive. But it will also save a fortune in admin costs, and turbocharge the economy as people are freed from employed slavery stuck in jobs they can't afford to quit. Now they can - go and retrain, reskill, start a business. Whatever you want.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,666
    MattW said:

    algarkirk said:

    dixiedean said:
    This is similar to one of Lord Denning's celebrated judgments, about cricket balls. Nothing on earth was going to get Denning to stop people playing cricket. Miller v Jackson. Few write judgments in this style today.

    https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/1977/6.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_v_Jackson#:~:text=Lord Denning MR dissented from,any past or future damage".
    Miserabilist is about right. It was an estimated ball every 2 days at the start, and the school then took measures such as a net over the pitch.

    The buggers still took legal action over as I take it the earlier period. If you move in next to a school, expect games.

    "We can no longer use our swimming pool." FFS. They are worth North of £20m.

    At least the Judge only gave them nominal damages, and refused to issue a ban. It's time for the school to introduce outdoor band practice, and develop a Kazoo Parade Band like in Yank Land.

    A big hedge would cost less than the Court Fees.
    If the net isn’t stopping the balls, maybe they need a bigger and better net. 170 balls in 11 months is a bit much.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,227
    One prediction I will make.

    The Starmer Government will not take rigorous enough advantage of the opportunity to push their narrative right down the Opposition's throats and out of the back of their heads.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,929

    carnforth said:

    British Meat Processors welcome the deal, and point out the b;leeding obvious:

    "A common misunderstanding is that an SPS agreement will mean Britain becomes a ‘rule taker’. In reality, we must comply with the rules of any of our trading partners if we want to export to them – just like America must comply with British rules if they want to send us their products."

    It truly is weaponised stupidity and ignorance from the wazzocks who parrot the line about us being a "rule taker". You want to trade with a counterparty? You have to fit their requirements.

    You don't get to dictate to them that they should do whatever you say, no matter how often the Tories say it. What makes it worse is that morons like Gullis aside, the Tories saying this guff *know it isn't true*. They just assume the person listening doesn't know any better and thus will believe the lie they are telling.

    An SPS agreements means our own rules have to match, for all food produced here, not just for that which is exported to the country in question. That's the difference, isn't it? We're not ruletakers wrt Japan, for example, but we will be wrt Europe now. Yet we will export to both. Pretending those two aren't different situations is silly.
    Correct.

    Ideally we would have “equivalence”, but the EU won’t concede.

    We are promised certain exceptions from dynamic aligbment, and some modest abilty to input into new rule-making, but we’ll also be expected to put some small amount of money in.

    The devil might be in the detail, but food exporters, andf food lovers, should be rejoicing today. I hope this reverses the loss in variety and quality evident on British shelves.
    We have equivalence - our standards are their standards on practically everything. The notion that we would be "rule makers" was for the birds - we couldn't make the rules for our exports to the EU any more than we can for any market. Sovereignty is a two-way street and our customers get to dictate what they are willing to accept.

    I've just been reviewing the government publication with Big Client technical standards - its fantastic news

    At the moment to import food into the UK you need to have farms / abattoirs / factories certified for export, need traceability paperwork for every component, vets to sign off health, a ream of import documents which customs don't look at for 10 days after you make the import. All to import food which is the same standard on both sides of the border.

    This whole rigmarole goes in the bin because the existing European SPS framework we left 17 months ago is being extended to cover GB again.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/682afb7002662c6f8ec243ef/UK_EU_Summit_-_Common_Understanding.pdf
    We can make our rules for the domestic market and if people wish to export they just need to meet the export markets requirements.

    Just as eg some countries abroad allow hormone treated beef domestically but if they wish to export to the EU it needs to be to EU standards

    I couldn't care less if exporters to the EU have to meet EU rules. Exporters to Japan should meet Japanese rules. Exporters to America should meet American rules etc

    If those rules need to be applied DOMESTICALLY then it's being a rule taked and undemocratic.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,577

    Andy_JS said:

    Most people probably want jobs that are slightly better paid and slightly more interesting than the ones they're doing. They don't want the government to give them a bit of extra money so they can spend more time sitting on the sofa staring at a screen. But the elites would love that because it gives them another opportunity to feel superior to ordinary people, which explains the popularity of UBI with the think-tank set.

    The point is not to give anyone more money. It is to remove the bizarre incentives and cliff edges.

    We already give unemployed people money. Probably more than £12k in many cases.
    We also spend a vast amount chasing people about over tiny amounts.

    Give them the 12k. End of.
    That is my ballpark starting place. Give everyone the tax free allowance in cash. But that removes practically all welfare payments (with exceptions for things like severe disability needs which are based on medical not financial considerations). And all income is taxed - if you work, you pay.

    It would be expensive. But it will also save a fortune in admin costs, and turbocharge the economy as people are freed from employed slavery stuck in jobs they can't afford to quit. Now they can - go and retrain, reskill, start a business. Whatever you want.
    That doesn't work if you include housing benefit.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,472
    So Farage and Badenoch at the next election , vote for me and I’ll start another war of words with the EU and threaten to rip up all these agreements .

    Not sure that’s a winner .
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,119
    isam said:

    Farage isn’t playing the centrists game yet

    In response to Nigel Farage being told members are leaving Reform for Homeland because they want a tougher stance on illegal immigration

    Nigel says "GOOD"

    Then says he wants to go back to the rules under the last Labour government in 2010

    SERIOUSLY NIGEL? WHAT???

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1924393123049877507?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I had to Google them. https://homelandparty.org

    They prattle on about the rights of the "indigenous people"

    Who is that then? Its not the Anglo-Saxons...
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,246
    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    This is the Sky summary, which says Pet Passports agreed. That has potential to be positive for Starmer, but it will be "feel" rather than addressing the people and the bots in the Daily Mail and GB News comments.

    https://news.sky.com/story/uk-eu-trade-deal-what-is-in-the-brexit-reset-agreement-13370912

    Yeah!!!!. Such a stupid trivial thing to have lost. Irrelevant to most people, but a real pain in the arse to many of us making spur of the minute holiday plans impossible.
    There are 30% more dogs here than there were 5-10 years ago (estimates are quite varied but all have the same trend). That's maybe an extra 3-4% of the population owning one or several. It won't swing that many votes, perhaps, but it's a .. er .. positive stroke for the Govt vote.

    Cats are also up, but I don't think Tibbles gets taken on international holidays usually (caravanners and campavanners maybe excepted) - single cat ladies may know more than I do.
    There's a Facebook page I follow of someone who has a cat that works as a therapy cat in hospitals in London. She's from Portugal and sometimes posts pictures of them going to visit family there. It's quite funny really seeing her take a very chilled cat on a plane!

    This is the page if you're interested.

    https://www.facebook.com/londonmeow/
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,977
    nico67 said:

    Quite funny the BBC coverage has Ode To Joy playing in the background from Steve Bray .

    He's been a one-man protest industry , in all weather, for ten years.
    Something, ironically, very nineteenth-century British about it.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,929
    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Most people probably want jobs that are slightly better paid and slightly more interesting than the ones they're doing. They don't want the government to give them a bit of extra money so they can spend more time sitting on the sofa staring at a screen. But the elites would love that because it gives them another opportunity to feel superior to ordinary people, which explains the popularity of UBI with the think-tank set.

    The point is not to give anyone more money. It is to remove the bizarre incentives and cliff edges.

    We already give unemployed people money. Probably more than £12k in many cases.
    We also spend a vast amount chasing people about over tiny amounts.

    Give them the 12k. End of.
    That is my ballpark starting place. Give everyone the tax free allowance in cash. But that removes practically all welfare payments (with exceptions for things like severe disability needs which are based on medical not financial considerations). And all income is taxed - if you work, you pay.

    It would be expensive. But it will also save a fortune in admin costs, and turbocharge the economy as people are freed from employed slavery stuck in jobs they can't afford to quit. Now they can - go and retrain, reskill, start a business. Whatever you want.
    That doesn't work if you include housing benefit.
    Abolish housing benefit and ensure house prices collapse back to affordability.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,608
    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    This is the Sky summary, which says Pet Passports agreed. That has potential to be positive for Starmer, but it will be "feel" rather than addressing the people and the bots in the Daily Mail and GB News comments.

    https://news.sky.com/story/uk-eu-trade-deal-what-is-in-the-brexit-reset-agreement-13370912

    Yeah!!!!. Such a stupid trivial thing to have lost. Irrelevant to most people, but a real pain in the arse to many of us making spur of the minute holiday plans impossible.
    There are 30% more dogs here than there were 5-10 years ago (estimates are quite varied but all have the same trend). That's maybe an extra 3-4% of the population owning one or several. It won't swing that many votes, perhaps, but it's a .. er .. positive stroke for the Govt vote.

    Cats are also up, but I don't think Tibbles gets taken on international holidays usually (caravanners and campavanners maybe excepted) - single cat ladies may know more than I do.
    Yep I am surprised if many cats take international holidays, but what do I know.

    Interestingly that reports refer to the cost saving for travellers regarding this. For me and many the cost was not the issue. The damn dog costs a fortune anyway. It was the time issue that was a pain. It required so much planning in advance that it was just about impossible for all practical purposes.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,246

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Now all Starmer has to do is

    1 stop all the boats and clear the hotels
    2 get the Boriswave to go home
    3 reduce migration to under 150k
    4 clean up our streets, stop shoplifting, make our cities prettier again
    5 make us all just a tiny bit richer

    And I might even vote for him. AGAIN

    There are videos on social media of migrants being moved out of hotels and into HMOs in places like Bishop Auckland, so they may be solving one problem by creating a bigger one.
    Farage has almost stopped talking about Brexit and moved on to the small boat problem. Dan Hodges noted today how dropping the B-word from the party name was a tell.

    Rich people will be buying up property and renting it out to the govt via Serco for the 5 year above market rate deal. The illegals will be the new neighbours for strugglers in run down areas
    To be fair Brexit has happened so having a Brexit party would be somewhat pointless.
    We've still got a UKIP party though, which doesn't make any sense but they're still around. Not sure what they want independence from.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,326
    edited 12:50PM
    Badenoch is an idiot.

    The only viable route out of perdition for the Tories is to capture the hopeful striver vote - working people who want the chance to get ahead in life. They may or may not be Eurosceptic, but they do not believe in reducing trade or travel to Europe.

    Instead, they are leaving that whole group to - in the absence of anyone else - Labour.

    There is no future in being the party for selfish old people for whom Nigel/Reform is “a bit much”.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,227
    edited 12:54PM
    CatMan said:

    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    This is the Sky summary, which says Pet Passports agreed. That has potential to be positive for Starmer, but it will be "feel" rather than addressing the people and the bots in the Daily Mail and GB News comments.

    https://news.sky.com/story/uk-eu-trade-deal-what-is-in-the-brexit-reset-agreement-13370912

    Yeah!!!!. Such a stupid trivial thing to have lost. Irrelevant to most people, but a real pain in the arse to many of us making spur of the minute holiday plans impossible.
    There are 30% more dogs here than there were 5-10 years ago (estimates are quite varied but all have the same trend). That's maybe an extra 3-4% of the population owning one or several. It won't swing that many votes, perhaps, but it's a .. er .. positive stroke for the Govt vote.

    Cats are also up, but I don't think Tibbles gets taken on international holidays usually (caravanners and campavanners maybe excepted) - single cat ladies may know more than I do.
    There's a Facebook page I follow of someone who has a cat that works as a therapy cat in hospitals in London. She's from Portugal and sometimes posts pictures of them going to visit family there. It's quite funny really seeing her take a very chilled cat on a plane!

    This is the page if you're interested.

    https://www.facebook.com/londonmeow/
    Do you get paid for therapy cats and dogs?

    My cousin who is a counsellor has had their Shipoo dog trained as one of those. I'll have to ask if this their second retirement income. They have also taken up being Spiritual Directors - which is great as he is a superb listner then adviser, and as I say she is an professional counsellor.

    They are completely bonkers in a "we don't care - we're going to enjoy it" way - at about 63 her husband has given up 5-a-side football, and they have both now taken up table tennis.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,119

    carnforth said:

    British Meat Processors welcome the deal, and point out the b;leeding obvious:

    "A common misunderstanding is that an SPS agreement will mean Britain becomes a ‘rule taker’. In reality, we must comply with the rules of any of our trading partners if we want to export to them – just like America must comply with British rules if they want to send us their products."

    It truly is weaponised stupidity and ignorance from the wazzocks who parrot the line about us being a "rule taker". You want to trade with a counterparty? You have to fit their requirements.

    You don't get to dictate to them that they should do whatever you say, no matter how often the Tories say it. What makes it worse is that morons like Gullis aside, the Tories saying this guff *know it isn't true*. They just assume the person listening doesn't know any better and thus will believe the lie they are telling.

    An SPS agreements means our own rules have to match, for all food produced here, not just for that which is exported to the country in question. That's the difference, isn't it? We're not ruletakers wrt Japan, for example, but we will be wrt Europe now. Yet we will export to both. Pretending those two aren't different situations is silly.
    Correct.

    Ideally we would have “equivalence”, but the EU won’t concede.

    We are promised certain exceptions from dynamic aligbment, and some modest abilty to input into new rule-making, but we’ll also be expected to put some small amount of money in.

    The devil might be in the detail, but food exporters, andf food lovers, should be rejoicing today. I hope this reverses the loss in variety and quality evident on British shelves.
    We have equivalence - our standards are their standards on practically everything. The notion that we would be "rule makers" was for the birds - we couldn't make the rules for our exports to the EU any more than we can for any market. Sovereignty is a two-way street and our customers get to dictate what they are willing to accept.

    I've just been reviewing the government publication with Big Client technical standards - its fantastic news

    At the moment to import food into the UK you need to have farms / abattoirs / factories certified for export, need traceability paperwork for every component, vets to sign off health, a ream of import documents which customs don't look at for 10 days after you make the import. All to import food which is the same standard on both sides of the border.

    This whole rigmarole goes in the bin because the existing European SPS framework we left 17 months ago is being extended to cover GB again.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/682afb7002662c6f8ec243ef/UK_EU_Summit_-_Common_Understanding.pdf
    We can make our rules for the domestic market and if people wish to export they just need to meet the export markets requirements.

    Just as eg some countries abroad allow hormone treated beef domestically but if they wish to export to the EU it needs to be to EU standards

    I couldn't care less if exporters to the EU have to meet EU rules. Exporters to Japan should meet Japanese rules. Exporters to America should meet American rules etc

    If those rules need to be applied DOMESTICALLY then it's being a rule taked and undemocratic.
    The reality check is that we're too small a market to set divergent rules vs our biggest import / export markets. Lets say that we decided we wanted to allow ADHD chemicals to be used in our food like the Americans do. We could probably import from there, but we're not likely to get multinationals to make a UK-compliant tainted version just for us. We're not big enough.

    And remember, there is no real difference between the UK and EU rules on food. We were doing all this paperwork at all this cost for no reason other than bloodymindedness.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,246
    So does this mean they'll stop printing "Not for EU" on cheese packets?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,102

    isam said:

    Farage isn’t playing the centrists game yet

    In response to Nigel Farage being told members are leaving Reform for Homeland because they want a tougher stance on illegal immigration

    Nigel says "GOOD"

    Then says he wants to go back to the rules under the last Labour government in 2010

    SERIOUSLY NIGEL? WHAT???

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1924393123049877507?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I had to Google them. https://homelandparty.org

    They prattle on about the rights of the "indigenous people"

    Who is that then? Its not the Anglo-Saxons...
    Bloody Beaker People!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,326

    carnforth said:

    British Meat Processors welcome the deal, and point out the b;leeding obvious:

    "A common misunderstanding is that an SPS agreement will mean Britain becomes a ‘rule taker’. In reality, we must comply with the rules of any of our trading partners if we want to export to them – just like America must comply with British rules if they want to send us their products."

    It truly is weaponised stupidity and ignorance from the wazzocks who parrot the line about us being a "rule taker". You want to trade with a counterparty? You have to fit their requirements.

    You don't get to dictate to them that they should do whatever you say, no matter how often the Tories say it. What makes it worse is that morons like Gullis aside, the Tories saying this guff *know it isn't true*. They just assume the person listening doesn't know any better and thus will believe the lie they are telling.

    An SPS agreements means our own rules have to match, for all food produced here, not just for that which is exported to the country in question. That's the difference, isn't it? We're not ruletakers wrt Japan, for example, but we will be wrt Europe now. Yet we will export to both. Pretending those two aren't different situations is silly.
    Correct.

    Ideally we would have “equivalence”, but the EU won’t concede.

    We are promised certain exceptions from dynamic aligbment, and some modest abilty to input into new rule-making, but we’ll also be expected to put some small amount of money in.

    The devil might be in the detail, but food exporters, andf food lovers, should be rejoicing today. I hope this reverses the loss in variety and quality evident on British shelves.
    We have equivalence - our standards are their standards on practically everything. The notion that we would be "rule makers" was for the birds - we couldn't make the rules for our exports to the EU any more than we can for any market. Sovereignty is a two-way street and our customers get to dictate what they are willing to accept.

    I've just been reviewing the government publication with Big Client technical standards - its fantastic news

    At the moment to import food into the UK you need to have farms / abattoirs / factories certified for export, need traceability paperwork for every component, vets to sign off health, a ream of import documents which customs don't look at for 10 days after you make the import. All to import food which is the same standard on both sides of the border.

    This whole rigmarole goes in the bin because the existing European SPS framework we left 17 months ago is being extended to cover GB again.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/682afb7002662c6f8ec243ef/UK_EU_Summit_-_Common_Understanding.pdf
    We can make our rules for the domestic market and if people wish to export they just need to meet the export markets requirements.

    Just as eg some countries abroad allow hormone treated beef domestically but if they wish to export to the EU it needs to be to EU standards

    I couldn't care less if exporters to the EU have to meet EU rules. Exporters to Japan should meet Japanese rules. Exporters to America should meet American rules etc

    If those rules need to be applied DOMESTICALLY then it's being a rule taked and undemocratic.
    The reality check is that we're too small a market to set divergent rules vs our biggest import / export markets. Lets say that we decided we wanted to allow ADHD chemicals to be used in our food like the Americans do. We could probably import from there, but we're not likely to get multinationals to make a UK-compliant tainted version just for us. We're not big enough.

    And remember, there is no real difference between the UK and EU rules on food. We were doing all this paperwork at all this cost for no reason other than bloodymindedness.
    I’m not sure this is 100% true.
    Also, see @Stillwaters on GMO tech.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,119

    isam said:

    Farage isn’t playing the centrists game yet

    In response to Nigel Farage being told members are leaving Reform for Homeland because they want a tougher stance on illegal immigration

    Nigel says "GOOD"

    Then says he wants to go back to the rules under the last Labour government in 2010

    SERIOUSLY NIGEL? WHAT???

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1924393123049877507?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I had to Google them. https://homelandparty.org

    They prattle on about the rights of the "indigenous people"

    Who is that then? Its not the Anglo-Saxons...
    Anyone before the Beaker people came along?
    We all know that "indigenous" = "white", but they don't feel confident enough to say it.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,246
    MattW said:

    CatMan said:

    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    This is the Sky summary, which says Pet Passports agreed. That has potential to be positive for Starmer, but it will be "feel" rather than addressing the people and the bots in the Daily Mail and GB News comments.

    https://news.sky.com/story/uk-eu-trade-deal-what-is-in-the-brexit-reset-agreement-13370912

    Yeah!!!!. Such a stupid trivial thing to have lost. Irrelevant to most people, but a real pain in the arse to many of us making spur of the minute holiday plans impossible.
    There are 30% more dogs here than there were 5-10 years ago (estimates are quite varied but all have the same trend). That's maybe an extra 3-4% of the population owning one or several. It won't swing that many votes, perhaps, but it's a .. er .. positive stroke for the Govt vote.

    Cats are also up, but I don't think Tibbles gets taken on international holidays usually (caravanners and campavanners maybe excepted) - single cat ladies may know more than I do.
    There's a Facebook page I follow of someone who has a cat that works as a therapy cat in hospitals in London. She's from Portugal and sometimes posts pictures of them going to visit family there. It's quite funny really seeing her take a very chilled cat on a plane!

    This is the page if you're interested.

    https://www.facebook.com/londonmeow/
    Do you get paid for therapy cats and dogs?

    My cousin who is a counsellor has had their Shipoo dog trained as one of those. I'll have to ask if this their second retirement income.

    They are completely bonkers - at about 63 her husband has given up 5-a-side football, and they have both taken up table tennis.
    I'm not sure. She does it with these people: https://petsastherapy.org/
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,239
    Leon said:

    I can report that my 18 year old daughter in Australia - about to get a UK passport via her Dad - is delighted with the youth mobility scheme

    Smart from SKS and won’t harm him getting some of the youth vote back
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,239

    Been about 4-5 days since I was last in the Co-op but there was a lot of empty shelf space. Hope they can get back to normal soon.

    Anyway, I am off for the day. For anyone who missed it earlier, and cares, I slightly modified my title betting with a little on Verstappen at 4 (now 4.1) on Betfair.

    He was faster than the McLarens in the race. Neither could even narrow the gap. For all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, he's very much in this title fight.

    They’ve not paid the ransom so it’s unlikely. A BBC tech journalist was on twitter at the weekend discussing it as the hackers had contacted him and also given him proof of who they claim to be so he believed it genuine.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,846

    isam said:

    Farage isn’t playing the centrists game yet

    In response to Nigel Farage being told members are leaving Reform for Homeland because they want a tougher stance on illegal immigration

    Nigel says "GOOD"

    Then says he wants to go back to the rules under the last Labour government in 2010

    SERIOUSLY NIGEL? WHAT???

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1924393123049877507?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I had to Google them. https://homelandparty.org

    They prattle on about the rights of the "indigenous people"

    Who is that then? Its not the Anglo-Saxons...
    Anyone before the Beaker people came along?
    They are probably still believers in Piltdown man, fully equipped with his cricket bat.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,250

    isam said:

    Farage isn’t playing the centrists game yet

    In response to Nigel Farage being told members are leaving Reform for Homeland because they want a tougher stance on illegal immigration

    Nigel says "GOOD"

    Then says he wants to go back to the rules under the last Labour government in 2010

    SERIOUSLY NIGEL? WHAT???

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1924393123049877507?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I had to Google them. https://homelandparty.org

    They prattle on about the rights of the "indigenous people"

    Who is that then? Its not the Anglo-Saxons...
    Anyone before the Beaker people came along?
    We all know that "indigenous" = "white", but they don't feel confident enough to say it.
    So, you're saying they're too woke for Leon?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,666

    isam said:

    Farage isn’t playing the centrists game yet

    In response to Nigel Farage being told members are leaving Reform for Homeland because they want a tougher stance on illegal immigration

    Nigel says "GOOD"

    Then says he wants to go back to the rules under the last Labour government in 2010

    SERIOUSLY NIGEL? WHAT???

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1924393123049877507?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I had to Google them. https://homelandparty.org

    They prattle on about the rights of the "indigenous people"

    Who is that then? Its not the Anglo-Saxons...
    #Justice4BeakerPeople
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,792
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that my 18 year old daughter in Australia - about to get a UK passport via her Dad - is delighted with the youth mobility scheme

    Smart from SKS and won’t harm him getting some of the youth vote back
    TBF I think Oz already has a youth mobility scheme with the EU (or at least Schenghen?)

    But this will make it so much easier for her to move freely across the EU AND the UK with her new British passport
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,472
    Kemi’s droning on about fish ! Which adds just 0.03% to the UK economy .
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,239
    CatMan said:

    MattW said:

    CatMan said:

    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    This is the Sky summary, which says Pet Passports agreed. That has potential to be positive for Starmer, but it will be "feel" rather than addressing the people and the bots in the Daily Mail and GB News comments.

    https://news.sky.com/story/uk-eu-trade-deal-what-is-in-the-brexit-reset-agreement-13370912

    Yeah!!!!. Such a stupid trivial thing to have lost. Irrelevant to most people, but a real pain in the arse to many of us making spur of the minute holiday plans impossible.
    There are 30% more dogs here than there were 5-10 years ago (estimates are quite varied but all have the same trend). That's maybe an extra 3-4% of the population owning one or several. It won't swing that many votes, perhaps, but it's a .. er .. positive stroke for the Govt vote.

    Cats are also up, but I don't think Tibbles gets taken on international holidays usually (caravanners and campavanners maybe excepted) - single cat ladies may know more than I do.
    There's a Facebook page I follow of someone who has a cat that works as a therapy cat in hospitals in London. She's from Portugal and sometimes posts pictures of them going to visit family there. It's quite funny really seeing her take a very chilled cat on a plane!

    This is the page if you're interested.

    https://www.facebook.com/londonmeow/
    Do you get paid for therapy cats and dogs?

    My cousin who is a counsellor has had their Shipoo dog trained as one of those. I'll have to ask if this their second retirement income.

    They are completely bonkers - at about 63 her husband has given up 5-a-side football, and they have both taken up table tennis.
    I'm not sure. She does it with these people: https://petsastherapy.org/
    I’m losing track of all these poo dogs. A Shipoo is a new one in me. Presumably crossed with the yappy shih tzu
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,929

    carnforth said:

    British Meat Processors welcome the deal, and point out the b;leeding obvious:

    "A common misunderstanding is that an SPS agreement will mean Britain becomes a ‘rule taker’. In reality, we must comply with the rules of any of our trading partners if we want to export to them – just like America must comply with British rules if they want to send us their products."

    It truly is weaponised stupidity and ignorance from the wazzocks who parrot the line about us being a "rule taker". You want to trade with a counterparty? You have to fit their requirements.

    You don't get to dictate to them that they should do whatever you say, no matter how often the Tories say it. What makes it worse is that morons like Gullis aside, the Tories saying this guff *know it isn't true*. They just assume the person listening doesn't know any better and thus will believe the lie they are telling.

    An SPS agreements means our own rules have to match, for all food produced here, not just for that which is exported to the country in question. That's the difference, isn't it? We're not ruletakers wrt Japan, for example, but we will be wrt Europe now. Yet we will export to both. Pretending those two aren't different situations is silly.
    Correct.

    Ideally we would have “equivalence”, but the EU won’t concede.

    We are promised certain exceptions from dynamic aligbment, and some modest abilty to input into new rule-making, but we’ll also be expected to put some small amount of money in.

    The devil might be in the detail, but food exporters, andf food lovers, should be rejoicing today. I hope this reverses the loss in variety and quality evident on British shelves.
    We have equivalence - our standards are their standards on practically everything. The notion that we would be "rule makers" was for the birds - we couldn't make the rules for our exports to the EU any more than we can for any market. Sovereignty is a two-way street and our customers get to dictate what they are willing to accept.

    I've just been reviewing the government publication with Big Client technical standards - its fantastic news

    At the moment to import food into the UK you need to have farms / abattoirs / factories certified for export, need traceability paperwork for every component, vets to sign off health, a ream of import documents which customs don't look at for 10 days after you make the import. All to import food which is the same standard on both sides of the border.

    This whole rigmarole goes in the bin because the existing European SPS framework we left 17 months ago is being extended to cover GB again.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/682afb7002662c6f8ec243ef/UK_EU_Summit_-_Common_Understanding.pdf
    We can make our rules for the domestic market and if people wish to export they just need to meet the export markets requirements.

    Just as eg some countries abroad allow hormone treated beef domestically but if they wish to export to the EU it needs to be to EU standards

    I couldn't care less if exporters to the EU have to meet EU rules. Exporters to Japan should meet Japanese rules. Exporters to America should meet American rules etc

    If those rules need to be applied DOMESTICALLY then it's being a rule taked and undemocratic.
    The reality check is that we're too small a market to set divergent rules vs our biggest import / export markets. Lets say that we decided we wanted to allow ADHD chemicals to be used in our food like the Americans do. We could probably import from there, but we're not likely to get multinationals to make a UK-compliant tainted version just for us. We're not big enough.

    And remember, there is no real difference between the UK and EU rules on food. We were doing all this paperwork at all this cost for no reason other than bloodymindedness.
    The reality is we're one of the largest economies on the planet.

    We're perfectly capable of setting out own rules, and where those rules are identical then SPS checks should not be needed but if we diverge then anyone who exports to the EU would have to follow EU rules and vice-versa . . . unless, rationally, the EU agrees to recognise equivalence which would be the sensible solution.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,272

    isam said:

    Farage isn’t playing the centrists game yet

    In response to Nigel Farage being told members are leaving Reform for Homeland because they want a tougher stance on illegal immigration

    Nigel says "GOOD"

    Then says he wants to go back to the rules under the last Labour government in 2010

    SERIOUSLY NIGEL? WHAT???

    https://x.com/basil_tgmd/status/1924393123049877507?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I had to Google them. https://homelandparty.org

    They prattle on about the rights of the "indigenous people"

    Who is that then? Its not the Anglo-Saxons...
    Anyone before the Beaker people came along?
    We all know that "indigenous" = "white", but they don't feel confident enough to say it.
    You're thinking of Starmer's 'white Britain' immigration policy.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,142
    Scott_xP said:

    @Keir_Starmer

    Other government’s dithered and delayed.

    My government is getting on with the job and is delivering in the national interest.

    Does competence have an actual smell? Because my nostrils are certainly picking up something.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,929
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Keir_Starmer

    Other government’s dithered and delayed.

    My government is getting on with the job and is delivering in the national interest.

    Does competence have an actual smell? Because my nostrils are certainly picking up something.
    Could be bovine manure you're picking up.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,227
    edited 1:04PM
    Oo. Mr Trump could invade El Salvador if he wants to keep his gulag.

    France will build a new high-security prison in its overseas territory of French Guiana to house drug traffickers and radical Islamists, the country's justice minister announced during a visit to the territory.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7v7n81emy3o
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,377
    Scott_xP said:

    @Keir_Starmer

    Other government’s dithered and delayed.

    My government is getting on with the job and is delivering in the national interest.

    Did he really tweet "government's"?

    The greengrocer has his sleeve's rolled up
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,666
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Keir_Starmer

    Other government’s dithered and delayed.

    My government is getting on with the job and is delivering in the national interest.

    Does competence have an actual smell? Because my nostrils are certainly picking up something.
    Horse, cat, dog, sheep. No, it’s definitely bullshit.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,377
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Keir_Starmer

    Other government’s dithered and delayed.

    My government is getting on with the job and is delivering in the national interest.

    Does competence have an actual smell? Because my nostrils are certainly picking up something.
    Does it smell of muscle's?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 60,792
    Starmer might get an actual poll boost from this. Some Remainery LDs and Greens will return. And he won't lose any to Reform

    How many Brexiteering fisherfolk or ardent ultra-Leavers are in the 22% presently supporting Labour? Roughly zero, so that's not an issue

    He will also get a personal boost. He's doing prime ministery things in a prime minister-y way and delivering stuff people will like - the e-gates, the pet passports, making it easier for businesses to import/export, even the youth mobility might easily please more than it annoys
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,227
    Taz said:

    CatMan said:

    MattW said:

    CatMan said:

    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    This is the Sky summary, which says Pet Passports agreed. That has potential to be positive for Starmer, but it will be "feel" rather than addressing the people and the bots in the Daily Mail and GB News comments.

    https://news.sky.com/story/uk-eu-trade-deal-what-is-in-the-brexit-reset-agreement-13370912

    Yeah!!!!. Such a stupid trivial thing to have lost. Irrelevant to most people, but a real pain in the arse to many of us making spur of the minute holiday plans impossible.
    There are 30% more dogs here than there were 5-10 years ago (estimates are quite varied but all have the same trend). That's maybe an extra 3-4% of the population owning one or several. It won't swing that many votes, perhaps, but it's a .. er .. positive stroke for the Govt vote.

    Cats are also up, but I don't think Tibbles gets taken on international holidays usually (caravanners and campavanners maybe excepted) - single cat ladies may know more than I do.
    There's a Facebook page I follow of someone who has a cat that works as a therapy cat in hospitals in London. She's from Portugal and sometimes posts pictures of them going to visit family there. It's quite funny really seeing her take a very chilled cat on a plane!

    This is the page if you're interested.

    https://www.facebook.com/londonmeow/
    Do you get paid for therapy cats and dogs?

    My cousin who is a counsellor has had their Shipoo dog trained as one of those. I'll have to ask if this their second retirement income.

    They are completely bonkers - at about 63 her husband has given up 5-a-side football, and they have both taken up table tennis.
    I'm not sure. She does it with these people: https://petsastherapy.org/
    I’m losing track of all these poo dogs. A Shipoo is a new one in me. Presumably crossed with the yappy shih tzu
    Yes. If I tendentiously call him a Shit-Poo or The Tautological Dog, I get threatened with summary expulsion from Kent.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,033
    edited 1:04PM
    So, is this harder or softer than May's Brexit? I reckon harder, given she would probably have kept us in some sort of quasi customs union when the trade part of the negotiations happened.

    Not that it's quite a scalar, of course.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,666
    France to reopen Devils Island

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7v7n81emy3o

    I’d be interested how they are going to get round the Human Rights stuff on prisoners being close to family etc…
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,979
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    British Meat Processors welcome the deal, and point out the b;leeding obvious:

    "A common misunderstanding is that an SPS agreement will mean Britain becomes a ‘rule taker’. In reality, we must comply with the rules of any of our trading partners if we want to export to them – just like America must comply with British rules if they want to send us their products."

    It truly is weaponised stupidity and ignorance from the wazzocks who parrot the line about us being a "rule taker". You want to trade with a counterparty? You have to fit their requirements.

    You don't get to dictate to them that they should do whatever you say, no matter how often the Tories say it. What makes it worse is that morons like Gullis aside, the Tories saying this guff *know it isn't true*. They just assume the person listening doesn't know any better and thus will believe the lie they are telling.

    An SPS agreements means our own rules have to match, for all food produced here, not just for that which is exported to the country in question. That's the difference, isn't it? We're not ruletakers wrt Japan, for example, but we will be wrt Europe now. Yet we will export to both. Pretending those two aren't different situations is silly.
    Correct.

    Ideally we would have “equivalence”, but the EU won’t concede.

    We are promised certain exceptions from dynamic aligbment, and some modest abilty to input into new rule-making, but we’ll also be expected to put some small amount of money in.

    The devil might be in the detail, but food exporters, andf food lovers, should be rejoicing today. I hope this reverses the loss in variety and quality evident on British shelves.
    We have equivalence - our standards are their standards on practically everything. The notion that we would be "rule makers" was for the birds - we couldn't make the rules for our exports to the EU any more than we can for any market. Sovereignty is a two-way street and our customers get to dictate what they are willing to accept.

    I've just been reviewing the government publication with Big Client technical standards - its fantastic news

    At the moment to import food into the UK you need to have farms / abattoirs / factories certified for export, need traceability paperwork for every component, vets to sign off health, a ream of import documents which customs don't look at for 10 days after you make the import. All to import food which is the same standard on both sides of the border.

    This whole rigmarole goes in the bin because the existing European SPS framework we left 17 months ago is being extended to cover GB again.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/682afb7002662c6f8ec243ef/UK_EU_Summit_-_Common_Understanding.pdf
    I’m tentatively prepared to say Starmer might have done something good here,
    overall

    This comment is especially for the enjoyment of @kinabalu
    He's like the postman. No fuss, no drama, just delivery.
    Although, based on the amount of walking @BlancheLivermore does, I rather assumed that the postman would be thinner than Starmer…
Sign In or Register to comment.