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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Opinium sees Labour’s support fall to lowest level since 20

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited March 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Opinium sees Labour’s support fall to lowest level since 2010 election

LAB down to just 33% in tonight's Opinium poll for the Observer – the lowest level since GE2010. CON 1% behind

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903
    The fact I may be first on this thread counts for little against the certain prospect of my carefully considered words on the previous thread being unread. (A fate they deserve obviously)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Does that mean that there is a realistic chance in the near future of ending the increasingly tiresome Basil joke?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903

    Does that mean that there is a realistic chance in the near future of ending the increasingly tiresome Basil joke?

    I herb rumours of that.

  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,709
    You've got to hand it to Grant Shapps - that man knows how to market! The beer and bingo stuff would have gone unnoticed if Labour and the useful idiots on Twitter hadn't danced, in blissful ignorance, to Shapps's tune. Has a political party ever done so much to publicize an opponent's tax cut for the masses as Labour did on this occasion?
  • If Liverpool win all their remaining games, they will become Champions.

    Liverpool will not will the Premier League, this is City and Chelsea's to lose x 1,000,000
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    UNS gives Labour two short of a majority, or a majority of 3 sans Sinn Fein...
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Does that mean that there is a realistic chance in the near future of ending the increasingly tiresome Basil joke?

    Doc Sox

    Is there a cure for squirrels catching PB?

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    They have to be referred to Dr Shipman for ongoing management.
    AveryLP said:

    Does that mean that there is a realistic chance in the near future of ending the increasingly tiresome Basil joke?

    Doc Sox

    Is there a cure for squirrels catching PB?

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    You've got to hand it to Grant Shapps - that man knows how to market! The beer and bingo stuff would have gone unnoticed if Labour and the useful idiots on Twitter hadn't danced, in blissful ignorance, to Shapps's tune. Has a political party ever done so much to publicize an opponent's tax cut for the masses as Labour did on this occasion?

    But I thought the Shapps Tweet ad was going to be as damaging as Liam Byrne’s “there’s no money left” handover note" - guess I was wrong...!

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Opinium Poll: So only 5% for others and sundry SNP and Greens. Very neat and very implausible
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    Opinium - Must be an outlier :)
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    Does that mean that there is a realistic chance in the near future of ending the increasingly tiresome Basil joke?

    http://donauschwaben-usa.org/mad_squirrel.jpg
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903
    My computer seems to be Fawlty, and I can't find the origins of the Basil joke. Anyone care to help out?
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    *** LOOKS AROUND FOR A POLLING CROSSOVER ****

    Ah, well.........onward and err....onward.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Omnium said:

    My computer seems to be Fawlty, and I can't find the origins of the Basil joke. Anyone care to help out?

    LOL!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I know nothing!
    Omnium said:

    My computer seems to be Fawlty, and I can't find the origins of the Basil joke. Anyone care to help out?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    More to the point, the last time both main parties polled under 35% was just after the 1st WW in 1918, as in France with the rise of the FN vote (as will be confirmed in tomorrow's final round of the municipal elections) it seems UKIP is making the running
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903
    Shapps is a bit like the Tories' Blair. Like perhaps Portillo before him he'll run out of steam. In hindsight it was possibly unfortunate that Portillo got derailed thus.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    Broken, sleazy, etc.... on the slide..
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    The Tory soufflé is rising nicely....

    Or perhaps more accurately, someone opened the oven door on Labour's..... It ain't gonna be pretty when it is presented to the voters.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    In the running? I think that you mean down 5% over the last year, a quarter of their professed support.
    HYUFD said:

    More to the point, the last time both main parties polled under 35% was just after the 1st WW in 1918, as in France with the rise of the FN vote (as will be confirmed in tomorrow's final round of the municipal elections) it seems UKIP is making the running

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Probably an outlier, but maybe a harbinger of things to come. I'm still expecting Labou to fall consistently below the 35% mark by year end.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    PR^2 would give something like

    Con 265
    Lab 272
    LD 26
    UKIP 58

    Con-UKIP coalition?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    Fox I know Opnium favours UKIP, but 15% is still 5 times their 2010 total
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937

    Probably an outlier, but maybe a harbinger of things to come. I'm still expecting Labou to fall consistently below the 35% mark by year end.

    I may be a little ahead of that. I'm expecting the Labour Party conference to be a rather gloomy affair.....
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    So EdM's 35% basilar strategy has come to grief. Labour will be lucky to break 28% come the GE.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    They have clearly lost momentum over the last year though, as well as a quarter of their polled support.

    I suspect that they will poll more than 2010, but not more than 6% and most of that will be in safe Tory seats where it makes little difference.

    Making the running? Not at present. And that is despite their best election for votes being just weeks away.
    HYUFD said:

    Fox I know Opnium favours UKIP, but 15% is still 5 times their 2010 total

  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Are these changes outwith MOE?

    And is the consensus that it is now too late to unseat Ed Miliband?
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    So EdM's 35% basilar strategy has come to grief. Labour will be lucky to break 28% come the GE.

    I offered you a bet on this the other day. You ran away.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "In hindsight it was possibly unfortunate that Portillo got derailed thus."

    Oh, no. Surely, him getting slung out of Parliament in 97 was actually a lucky escape for the Conservatives. An odious little man with no bottom, as his subsequent conduct demonstrated. If he hadn't had that period out of Parliament enough Conservatives would have been fooled and he could have become leader and maybe obtained high office.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Omnium said:

    My computer seems to be Fawlty, and I can't find the origins of the Basil joke. Anyone care to help out?

    LOL!
    The problem with the Basil joke is it always makes me think of Mr Brush. Basil may also be a mangy beast, but he doesn't have as nice a waistcoat.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    When considered with the yougov polls of the week it appears consistent rather than an outlier.

    Changing leader would not help much. The problem is the lacklustre front bench, which needs a thorough clean out.

    If the delightful Liz Kendall was leader they would be more popular than Kate Bush tickets.

    Ishmael_X said:

    Are these changes outwith MOE?

    And is the consensus that it is now too late to unseat Ed Miliband?

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Charles said:

    Omnium said:

    My computer seems to be Fawlty, and I can't find the origins of the Basil joke. Anyone care to help out?

    LOL!
    The problem with the Basil joke is it always makes me think of Mr Brush. Basil may also be a mangy beast, but he doesn't have as nice a waistcoat.
    Mr. Brush? Showing your age there, Mr. Charles.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    Charles said:

    Omnium said:

    My computer seems to be Fawlty, and I can't find the origins of the Basil joke. Anyone care to help out?

    LOL!
    The problem with the Basil joke is it always makes me think of Mr Brush. Basil may also be a mangy beast, but he doesn't have as nice a waistcoat.
    Boom! Boom!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    Fox I would agree they will probably be on 6% or so next year, but until the Euros and after the Farage Clegg debates UKIP are still the story. Anyway, got to go
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Good evening, everyone.

    Such a shame Basil now associated mostly with a disgruntled hotelier and partly with a cheeky fox. Basil the Macedonian was one of the more competent Byzantine emperors, and Basil II (the last of the Macedonian dynasty) was, after an initial defeat, an arse-kicker of tremendous proportions (although he did utterly cock up the succession by not having any wives or children).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Omnium said:

    My computer seems to be Fawlty, and I can't find the origins of the Basil joke. Anyone care to help out?

    LOL!
    The problem with the Basil joke is it always makes me think of Mr Brush. Basil may also be a mangy beast, but he doesn't have as nice a waistcoat.
    Mr. Brush? Showing your age there, Mr. Charles.
    I'm younger than most on here I suspect... I only got to know Basil during the twilight of his career
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Incidentally, the Lib Dem and Labour scores have not changed significantly in the above graph, excepting the very first few points for the blues.

    Labour has seen a pretty gradual but consistent decline, and UKIP have remained around the same high level since the step change halfway through.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903
    RodCrosby said:

    PR^2 would give something like

    Con 265
    Lab 272
    LD 26
    UKIP 58

    Con-UKIP coalition?


    UKIP won't get many seats - perhaps not even any. Suppose though they get 10, and the LDs whatever - both of them would prefer to be in coalition with the Tories (the devil you know for the LDs). I rather hanker after the Tories getting a majority, but if they don't then the middle ground is pretty happy country for them.

    Post an independence defeat what will the SNP do. They won't be keen on Labour.

    Narrow polls become very tough for Ed.

    I'm convinced now that Boris will return, and although I hope it'll be a two-term Cameron handing over to an elderly ex-London-major I'm pretty sure that he'll be front and centre for the job one day.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    I saw the faux twitter outrage that night before I saw the poster, must admit that when I finally saw the poster I did think that Labour and far too many in the Westminster bubble had got this one wrong. If the main Opposition are left fixating on and criticising a Conservative PR send up poster of a popular bingo ad after the budget, then Osborne played a complete blinder.

    You've got to hand it to Grant Shapps - that man knows how to market! The beer and bingo stuff would have gone unnoticed if Labour and the useful idiots on Twitter hadn't danced, in blissful ignorance, to Shapps's tune. Has a political party ever done so much to publicize an opponent's tax cut for the masses as Labour did on this occasion?

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SeanT said:

    Greetings from Connemara. Where I am really quite squiffy and about to drive over a mountain in the dark. But I figure it's expected. It's the west of Ireland. It's probably illegal to drive sober.

    Kerry and Clare and Galway are as beautiful as ever, once you get near the sea. Just sublime.

    Nice poll.

    If you have the time, can I recommend dropping by Ballynahinch (where lots of former Charles's lived) or Ross (where we wrote down some reminiscences) or Castle Ellen where we were burnt out of Ireland.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Charles, it can be amusing to have one's age mistaken online. Some time ago I was almost certainly the youngest chap in a grown-up place, and regularly got mistaken for a man in his 30s or 40s.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited March 2014

    They have clearly lost momentum over the last year though, as well as a quarter of their polled support.

    I suspect that they will poll more than 2010, but not more than 6% and most of that will be in safe Tory seats where it makes little difference.

    Making the running? Not at present. And that is despite their best election for votes being just weeks away.

    HYUFD said:

    Fox I know Opnium favours UKIP, but 15% is still 5 times their 2010 total

    Opinium 19 March 2013: Con 28%, Lab 38%, LD 9%, UKIP 16%
    Opinium 2 April 2013: Con 28%, Lab 38%, LD 8%, UKIP 17%

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#2013

    Compared to today's poll, the only changes greater than MoE are Con (+4) and Lab (-5).
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited March 2014
    FPT

    @Casino_Royale wrote :

    "JackW - I've just seen your posts on this on the last thread. This is not the point. You and I are answering different questions. Yes, Labour last achieved a majority government in Oct 74.

    My point was when Labour last *returned* to power *with* a majority. That is to say, when did they last take control of the government - from the Conservatives, following a general election - with a majority government.

    They did not do so in Feb 74, but did form a minority government. Therefore, the answer to that question (when did Labour last take power from the Conservatives, with a majority government, before 1997) is 1964, which is how I answered it in the first place."

    ...........................................................................................................

    I apologize to PBers for returning to this point.

    C_R - You have moved the goalposts (copyright Compouter2). You originally said :

    "The last time Labour returned to power (sans Blair) with a majority was um 1964."

    That is patently incorrect. My assertion that it was Oct 74 is correct.

    You have now added take power from the Conservatives with a majority which is a different matter.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I am not denying that the kippers have significant support, my comment to HYFUD was that there was little evidence that they are making the running. They are showing no signs of reaching the 21% or so that they were reaching last May.

    I think that we may well have seen peak UKIP, just as we have seen peak Labour for this parliament.

    They have clearly lost momentum over the last year though, as well as a quarter of their polled support.

    I suspect that they will poll more than 2010, but not more than 6% and most of that will be in safe Tory seats where it makes little difference.

    Making the running? Not at present. And that is despite their best election for votes being just weeks away.

    HYUFD said:

    Fox I know Opnium favours UKIP, but 15% is still 5 times their 2010 total

    Opinium 19 March 2013: Con 28%, Lab 38%, LD 9%, UKIP 16%
    Opinium 2 April 2013: Con 28%, Lab 38%, LD 8%, UKIP 17%

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#2013

    Compared to today's poll, the only changes greater than MoE are Con (+4) and Lab (-5).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited March 2014

    If Liverpool win all their remaining games, they will become Champions.

    Liverpool will not will the Premier League, this is City and Chelsea's to lose x 1,000,000

    Probably. I'd like to think Liverpool can do it, but to win all their remaining games would mean they had won somethign like 15 in a row, which would be an amazing achievement, let alone for a team with as shaky a defence as Liverpool. Still, the hope remains strong.

    Mr. Charles, it can be amusing to have one's age mistaken online. Some time ago I was almost certainly the youngest chap in a grown-up place, and regularly got mistaken for a man in his 30s or 40s.

    Sounds like a fun game - predict the age of other posters. Not for the easily offended.

    On topic, no crossover yet, but it would be silly to deny it is not an encouraging number for Tory supporters, who have been getting increasingly desperate. It they can keep Labour in sight for awhile, perhaps we can eventually begin to think credibly about them edging it on number of votes, if not seats. For now I'll stick with a Labour win.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Any more polls expected tonight?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited March 2014

    I am not denying that the kippers have significant support, my comment to HYFUD was that there was little evidence that they are making the running. They are showing no signs of reaching the 21% or so that they were reaching last May.

    ??

    They are polling at the same level now that they were last year, so they're showing the same signs of reaching last May's local election 22% result.
  • Any more polls expected tonight?

    Just the usual YouGov in the Sunday Times.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Betting Post

    And don't forget to read my pre-race piece on Malaysia, with the extremely exciting tip to back Hulkenberg to be top 6 at 2.5:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/malaysia-pre-race.html
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @FoxInSox

    "I suspect that they will poll more than 2010, but not more than 6% and most of that will be in safe Tory seats where it makes little difference."

    Is that a prediction that UKIP will score less than 6&% of the vote in 2015? If it is I feel I have to ask the good Doctor if he is prepared to put his money where his prediction is.

    What about it, Doc, a modest wager, say twenty quid to a favourite charity? If UKIP get less than 6% of the vote at the 2015 general election I'll give £20 to your nominated charity. If they score 6% or more you give £20 to the RNLI. Just to make it interesting we cold have a bottle of single malt on the side.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    They will not come close to 22% in this years local elections, not least because this years are mostly in urban areas rather than the shires.

    The Tory vote has gone up. This is unlikely to be Lab to Tory movement, more likely to be Kippers moving to Tory. I think that we have seen peak kipper GE polling.

    I am not denying that the kippers have significant support, my comment to HYFUD was that there was little evidence that they are making the running. They are showing no signs of reaching the 21% or so that they were reaching last May.

    ??

    They are polling at the same level now that they were last year, so they're showing the same signs of reaching last May's local election 22% result.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033

    Any more polls expected tonight?

    Just the usual YouGov in the Sunday Times.
    Is this the final one for the crossover Q1 bet?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014

    Probably an outlier, but maybe a harbinger of things to come. I'm still expecting Labou to fall consistently below the 35% mark by year end.

    I may be a little ahead of that. I'm expecting the Labour Party conference to be a rather gloomy affair.....
    MM

    I can't see Ed being too despondent.

    He could always relaunch his energy price freeze proposals.

    Or up the pressure on Waitrose's unfair trade in coffee and newspapers.

    Or suggest we re-nationalise the railways.

    Or something.
  • RobD said:

    Any more polls expected tonight?

    Just the usual YouGov in the Sunday Times.
    Is this the final one for the crossover Q1 bet?
    No, the one that is released on Monday evening also counts.
  • kle4 said:

    If Liverpool win all their remaining games, they will become Champions.

    Liverpool will not will the Premier League, this is City and Chelsea's to lose x 1,000,000

    Probably. I'd like to think Liverpool can do it, but to win all their remaining games would mean they had won somethign like 15 in a row, which would be an amazing achievement, let alone for a team with as shaky a defence as Liverpool. Still, the hope remains strong.

    Mr. Charles, it can be amusing to have one's age mistaken online. Some time ago I was almost certainly the youngest chap in a grown-up place, and regularly got mistaken for a man in his 30s or 40s.

    Sounds like a fun game - predict the age of other posters. Not for the easily offended.

    On topic, no crossover yet, but it would be silly to deny it is not an encouraging number for Tory supporters, who have been getting increasingly desperate. It they can keep Labour in sight for awhile, perhaps we can eventually begin to think credibly about them edging it on number of votes, if not seats. For now I'll stick with a Labour win.
    If we win it with Kolo Toure, it will be a bigger achievement than when we won the cup with the really big ears with Djimi Traore and Igor Biscan.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Would you count all UK GE votes as the denominator of the 6%? If so its a bet. My charity would be Diabetes UK. I am also happy with a bottle of single malt, Islay preferred!

    @FoxInSox

    "I suspect that they will poll more than 2010, but not more than 6% and most of that will be in safe Tory seats where it makes little difference."

    Is that a prediction that UKIP will score less than 6&% of the vote in 2015? If it is I feel I have to ask the good Doctor if he is prepared to put his money where his prediction is.

    What about it, Doc, a modest wager, say twenty quid to a favourite charity? If UKIP get less than 6% of the vote at the 2015 general election I'll give £20 to your nominated charity. If they score 6% or more you give £20 to the RNLI. Just to make it interesting we cold have a bottle of single malt on the side.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,033

    RobD said:

    Any more polls expected tonight?

    Just the usual YouGov in the Sunday Times.
    Is this the final one for the crossover Q1 bet?
    No, the one that is released on Monday evening also counts.
    squeaky bum time!
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    They will not come close to 22% in this years local elections, not least because this years are mostly in urban areas rather than the shires.

    The Tory vote has gone up. This is unlikely to be Lab to Tory movement, more likely to be Kippers moving to Tory. I think that we have seen peak kipper GE polling.


    I am not denying that the kippers have significant support, my comment to HYFUD was that there was little evidence that they are making the running. They are showing no signs of reaching the 21% or so that they were reaching last May.

    ??

    They are polling at the same level now that they were last year, so they're showing the same signs of reaching last May's local election 22% result.
    The only changes in Opinium greater than MoE since last year are Con +4, and Lab -5.

    People have been talking about UKIP having peaked for the last 12 months. Their membership is still increasing. They're still placing third on aggregate council by-election votes.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I've been saying since 2010 that it will be a struggle for any party to win more than about 33% next time. Nice to see the polls starting to bear that prediction out.
  • John Bradley ‏@JBcommentator 1m

    This alteration to Jade Dernbach's Wikipedia page has tickled me

    pic.twitter.com/eA7TKoDfHk
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Any more polls expected tonight?

    Just the usual YouGov in the Sunday Times.
    Is this the final one for the crossover Q1 bet?
    No, the one that is released on Monday evening also counts.
    squeaky bum time!
    I'm covered for Q2 as well.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Eagles, if you're going to fiddle with Wikipedia you could visit Alexander the Great's page and correct the revisionist nonsense about him being a Greek King:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great

    It's as anachronistic as describing the Normans as Frenchmen, or Constantine the Great as a Yorkshireman.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I suspect they will have a modest upturn in May but then subside substantially as the GE approaches. I think that we have already seen peak Kipper.

    They will not come close to 22% in this years local elections, not least because this years are mostly in urban areas rather than the shires.

    The Tory vote has gone up. This is unlikely to be Lab to Tory movement, more likely to be Kippers moving to Tory. I think that we have seen peak kipper GE polling.


    I am not denying that the kippers have significant support, my comment to HYFUD was that there was little evidence that they are making the running. They are showing no signs of reaching the 21% or so that they were reaching last May.

    ??

    They are polling at the same level now that they were last year, so they're showing the same signs of reaching last May's local election 22% result.
    The only changes in Opinium greater than MoE since last year are Con +4, and Lab -5.

    People have been talking about UKIP having peaked for the last 12 months. Their membership is still increasing. They're still placing third on aggregate council by-election votes.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312

    It's as anachronistic as describing the Normans as Frenchmen, or Constantine the Great as a Yorkshireman.

    Is that true? I believe the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle describes the Normans as "French".

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited March 2014

    Mr. Eagles, if you're going to fiddle with Wikipedia you could visit Alexander the Great's page and correct the revisionist nonsense about him being a Greek King:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great

    It's as anachronistic as describing the Normans as Frenchmen, or Constantine the Great as a Yorkshireman.

    I did NOT alter Jade Dernbach's wiki page.

    Edit: If I had, it would have been a lot more uncomplimentary.

    He's so crap, you could mistake him for Ed Miliband or a Carthaginian Military leader.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited March 2014

    It's as anachronistic as describing the Normans as Frenchmen, or Constantine the Great as a Yorkshireman.

    Is that true? I believe the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle describes the Normans as "French".

    I prefer to think of them in terms of Norseman who conquered part of France, who them adopted the French language, rather than being truly 'French', that way we were not conquered by the real French. Not sure if they were viewed so distinctly by 11th century or not though, I bow to others on that.

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    I suspect they will have a modest upturn in May but then subside substantially as the GE approaches. I think that we have already seen peak Kipper.

    They will not come close to 22% in this years local elections, not least because this years are mostly in urban areas rather than the shires.

    The Tory vote has gone up. This is unlikely to be Lab to Tory movement, more likely to be Kippers moving to Tory. I think that we have seen peak kipper GE polling.


    I am not denying that the kippers have significant support, my comment to HYFUD was that there was little evidence that they are making the running. They are showing no signs of reaching the 21% or so that they were reaching last May.

    ??

    They are polling at the same level now that they were last year, so they're showing the same signs of reaching last May's local election 22% result.
    The only changes in Opinium greater than MoE since last year are Con +4, and Lab -5.

    People have been talking about UKIP having peaked for the last 12 months. Their membership is still increasing. They're still placing third on aggregate council by-election votes.
    This month UKIP have polled 23%, 26%, and 30% for the EU Parliament elections.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014_(United_Kingdom)#2014
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Would you count all UK GE votes as the denominator of the 6%? If so its a bet. My charity would be Diabetes UK. I am also happy with a bottle of single malt, Islay preferred!

    @FoxInSox

    "I suspect that they will poll more than 2010, but not more than 6% and most of that will be in safe Tory seats where it makes little difference."

    Is that a prediction that UKIP will score less than 6&% of the vote in 2015? If it is I feel I have to ask the good Doctor if he is prepared to put his money where his prediction is.

    What about it, Doc, a modest wager, say twenty quid to a favourite charity? If UKIP get less than 6% of the vote at the 2015 general election I'll give £20 to your nominated charity. If they score 6% or more you give £20 to the RNLI. Just to make it interesting we cold have a bottle of single malt on the side.

    We have a wager, Doc. I am very partial to the Islay too, Laphroaig for preference.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Would you count all UK GE votes as the denominator of the 6%? If so its a bet. My charity would be Diabetes UK. I am also happy with a bottle of single malt, Islay preferred!

    @FoxInSox

    "I suspect that they will poll more than 2010, but not more than 6% and most of that will be in safe Tory seats where it makes little difference."

    Is that a prediction that UKIP will score less than 6&% of the vote in 2015? If it is I feel I have to ask the good Doctor if he is prepared to put his money where his prediction is.

    What about it, Doc, a modest wager, say twenty quid to a favourite charity? If UKIP get less than 6% of the vote at the 2015 general election I'll give £20 to your nominated charity. If they score 6% or more you give £20 to the RNLI. Just to make it interesting we cold have a bottle of single malt on the side.

    foxinsoxuk is ever hopeful of UKIP's demise. He has continually said that UKIP wouldn't get more that 6%, trying to psyche himself up to believe his wishes are facts. On Thursday UKIP polled over 25% average over the 6 by-elections and won two council seats. I know it's only local voting but real figures are real facts, not dreamy wishes.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Lilburne, the Normans, as I understand it, conquered Normandy and agreed to give a nod to the French king in return for continuing to own it without French efforts to take it back. They were not Frenchmen, any more than Welshmen acknowledging the supremacy of England became English.

    Of course, I could be wrong. One cannot be expected to be familiar with such a vulgarly modern period of history (I use the term loosely).
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Their GE polling is substantially lower, which is the election that the above opinion polls and my comments relate to.





    I suspect they will have a modest upturn in May but then subside substantially as the GE approaches. I think that we have already seen peak Kipper.

    They will not come close to 22% in this years local elections, not least because this years are mostly in urban areas rather than the shires.

    The Tory vote has gone up. This is unlikely to be Lab to Tory movement, more likely to be Kippers moving to Tory. I think that we have seen peak kipper GE polling.


    I am not denying that the kippers have significant support, my comment to HYFUD was that there was little evidence that they are making the running. They are showing no signs of reaching the 21% or so that they were reaching last May.

    ??

    They are polling at the same level now that they were last year, so they're showing the same signs of reaching last May's local election 22% result.
    The only changes in Opinium greater than MoE since last year are Con +4, and Lab -5.

    People have been talking about UKIP having peaked for the last 12 months. Their membership is still increasing. They're still placing third on aggregate council by-election votes.
    This month UKIP have polled 23%, 26%, and 30% for the EU Parliament elections.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014_(United_Kingdom)#2014
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    JackW said:

    FPT

    @Casino_Royale wrote :

    "."

    ...........................................................................................................

    I apologize to PBers for returning to this point.

    C_R - You have moved the goalposts (copyright Compouter2). You originally said :

    "The last time Labour returned to power (sans Blair) with a majority was um 1964."

    That is patently incorrect. My assertion that it was Oct 74 is correct.

    You have now added take power from the Conservatives with a majority which is a different matter.

    JackW - I returned to this point (again) because I felt you were misinterpreting what I said, and misrepresenting my original point. To avoid boring everyone else on pb.com, I will attempt to explain this to you just one more time:

    When I wrote, "The last time Labour returned to power (sans Blair) with a majority.." I meant Labour returning to office, following a period of not being in office. When I wrote this it read to me, pretty obviously, that that would be as a result of a general election in which Labour won power from a previous administration.

    In Feb 1974, Ted Heath failed to win. He remained in office for a few days, trying to form a coalition with the Liberal leader Thorpe. That failed. Harold Wilson then became Prime Minister of a *minority* Labour government - in other words, Labour returned to power following the Feb 1974 election.

    Wilson was in office for several months before he called a second election, in October 1974, where he secured a (very small) overall majority. Therefore, he did not "return" to power with a majority in October 1974, because he was already in power (as PM) for several months beforehand with a minority.

    I accept that 1974 was the last election (before Blair's landslide in 1997) when Labour won a majority at a general election. I do not accept that it was the last time that Labour returned to power *with* a majority. I do not move away from my original point that IMHO this was at the 1964 general election (it wasn't in 1966, for the same reasons) unless you have facts that can prove me wrong to the contrary.

    I do accept I could have written it more clearly and unambiguously. That was a poor choice of words on my part. For example, you may have read, "return to power" as meaning any dissolution of parliament by a Labour administration which, having held power beforehand, went on to retain it after the subsequent general election. However, that is not what I meant.

    If you feel the need to post on this again and claim some sort of victory based on your preferred interpretation of my original post, then so be it. But it would be rather unbecoming of you. I bow to your knowledge of all matters psephological on here, but I would prefer if we could discuss the substance of points on here, rather than how they may have been expressed.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    With respect, the idea that UKIP might only poll 6% in 2015 looks rather bonkers at the moment.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Would you count all UK GE votes as the denominator of the 6%? If so its a bet. My charity would be Diabetes UK. I am also happy with a bottle of single malt, Islay preferred!

    @FoxInSox

    "I suspect that they will poll more than 2010, but not more than 6% and most of that will be in safe Tory seats where it makes little difference."

    Is that a prediction that UKIP will score less than 6&% of the vote in 2015? If it is I feel I have to ask the good Doctor if he is prepared to put his money where his prediction is.

    What about it, Doc, a modest wager, say twenty quid to a favourite charity? If UKIP get less than 6% of the vote at the 2015 general election I'll give £20 to your nominated charity. If they score 6% or more you give £20 to the RNLI. Just to make it interesting we cold have a bottle of single malt on the side.

    We have a wager, Doc. I am very partial to the Islay too, Laphroaig for preference.
    Caol ila. Here endeth the lesson.
    Although I have picked up a bottle at the Ben Nevis distillery of a recreation ca 1914 malt, it's meant to be Peary and sublime.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    It is to be hoped that after today we've seen the last of young Mr Dernbach in an England cricket team.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    That's peaty not Peary
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    What we need now is an Ashcroft marginals survey.
  • MP is Mark Menzies

    David Jack ‏@DJack_Journo 2m

    Tory MP quits as ministerial aide amid rent boy scandal. Exclusive in @TheSunNewspaoer

    pic.twitter.com/TMxEe1Sjph
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    AndyJS said:

    With respect, the idea that UKIP might only poll 6% in 2015 looks rather bonkers at the moment.

    That would double what they achieved last time, which on the face of it sounds great, but I would agree that 6% seems like the bare minimum we would expect given such a prolonged period of doing far better than that in the polls and intense Tory divisions. Even assuming there will be a Tory recovery, and other drops in UKIP support for the GE, in the region on 6-10 seems a safe bet.
  • It is to be hoped that after today we've seen the last of young Mr Dernbach in an England cricket team.

    I suspect we haven't.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Another lead of 1% for Labour with a different pollster? Seriously? I am starting to think that the polling companies are cumulatively taking the Michael.

    So near and yet so far. And the consequences if it comes are deeply unpredictable for Labour. Serious but unpredictable.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    It is to be hoped that after today we've seen the last of young Mr Dernbach in an England cricket team.

    It wasn't that long ago that Mitchell Johnson was a laughing stock. Give Dembach time, he'll come good.

  • Top Tory MP resigns as Ministerial aide following allegations by Brazilian male escort

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mark-menzies--resigns-government-3300512
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I believe that I have only specified 6% today, not previously. And yes I do wish for the demise of UKIP. Given its demographic, I think that it has a bright future behind it.

    The obsessions of the true believer should not be mistaken for fact either.
    MikeK said:

    Would you count all UK GE votes as the denominator of the 6%? If so its a bet. My charity would be Diabetes UK. I am also happy with a bottle of single malt, Islay preferred!

    @FoxInSox

    "I suspect that they will poll more than 2010, but not more than 6% and most of that will be in safe Tory seats where it makes little difference."

    Is that a prediction that UKIP will score less than 6&% of the vote in 2015? If it is I feel I have to ask the good Doctor if he is prepared to put his money where his prediction is.

    What about it, Doc, a modest wager, say twenty quid to a favourite charity? If UKIP get less than 6% of the vote at the 2015 general election I'll give £20 to your nominated charity. If they score 6% or more you give £20 to the RNLI. Just to make it interesting we cold have a bottle of single malt on the side.

    foxinsoxuk is ever hopeful of UKIP's demise. He has continually said that UKIP wouldn't get more that 6%, trying to psyche himself up to believe his wishes are facts. On Thursday UKIP polled over 25% average over the 6 by-elections and won two council seats. I know it's only local voting but real figures are real facts, not dreamy wishes.
    MikeK said:

    Would you count all UK GE votes as the denominator of the 6%? If so its a bet. My charity would be Diabetes UK. I am also happy with a bottle of single malt, Islay preferred!

    @FoxInSox

    "I suspect that they will poll more than 2010, but not more than 6% and most of that will be in safe Tory seats where it makes little difference."

    Is that a prediction that UKIP will score less than 6&% of the vote in 2015? If it is I feel I have to ask the good Doctor if he is prepared to put his money where his prediction is.

    What about it, Doc, a modest wager, say twenty quid to a favourite charity? If UKIP get less than 6% of the vote at the 2015 general election I'll give £20 to your nominated charity. If they score 6% or more you give £20 to the RNLI. Just to make it interesting we cold have a bottle of single malt on the side.

    foxinsoxuk is ever hopeful of UKIP's demise. He has continually said that UKIP wouldn't get more that 6%, trying to psyche himself up to believe his wishes are facts. On Thursday UKIP polled over 25% average over the 6 by-elections and won two council seats. I know it's only local voting but real figures are real facts, not dreamy wishes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited March 2014

    Top Tory MP resigns as Ministerial aide following allegations by Brazilian male escort

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mark-menzies--resigns-government-3300512

    I don't normally say this sort of thing, but 'Top Tory' is a bit of a stretch, isn't it? Also, how long since we had a rent boy scandal, was there a pool going on it?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    That's peaty not Peary

    Yup, peaty with the tang of seaweed, almost iodine. Mrs Llama, who hates it, once said it tastes like medicine, which raised questions in my mind about the RN Surgeons who performed duty a GPs in Malta during her youth but might explain Doctor Sox's liking for the stuff.
  • DavidL said:

    Another lead of 1% for Labour with a different pollster? Seriously? I am starting to think that the polling companies are cumulatively taking the Michael.

    So near and yet so far. And the consequences if it comes are deeply unpredictable for Labour. Serious but unpredictable.

    I like polls with Labour just ahead.

    Polls with the Tories ahead may cause Labour to ditch Ed.

    This budget has shifted votes, the 2015 General Election campaign begins with the 2015 budget.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312

    Mr. Lilburne, the Normans, as I understand it, conquered Normandy and agreed to give a nod to the French king in return for continuing to own it without French efforts to take it back. They were not Frenchmen, any more than Welshmen acknowledging the supremacy of England became English.

    Of course, I could be wrong. One cannot be expected to be familiar with such a vulgarly modern period of history (I use the term loosely).

    No you are technically right. But surely anyone who accepts the feudal suzerainty of the French king is... French. They adopted the French language and by 1066 had stopped being Norse.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    It is to be hoped that after today we've seen the last of young Mr Dernbach in an England cricket team.

    It wasn't that long ago that Mitchell Johnson was a laughing stock. Give Dembach time, he'll come good.

    MItchell Johnson showed genuine promise with bat and ball, then became a bit of a laughing stock, and has since recovered his reputation. I honestly cannot recall, did Dernbach ever show promise? I assume he must have done in order to get as many chances as he has.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Comment on Guardian website in response to this poll:

    "We've got to get Ed out NOW to even have a prayer at the next election.
    David could back and dethrone his brother in a powerful and potent coup-sde-famille which would thrill the voters and mark him as ruthless and unstoppable.
    Let's do it this week"


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/29/labour-support-falls-lowest-2010-observer-opinium-opinion-poll
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I too favour Caol Ila. One day I plan to go to Islay and do the tour. Purely in the interest of proper research of course.

    Would you count all UK GE votes as the denominator of the 6%? If so its a bet. My charity would be Diabetes UK. I am also happy with a bottle of single malt, Islay preferred!

    @FoxInSox

    "I suspect that they will poll more than 2010, but not more than 6% and most of that will be in safe Tory seats where it makes little difference."

    Is that a prediction that UKIP will score less than 6&% of the vote in 2015? If it is I feel I have to ask the good Doctor if he is prepared to put his money where his prediction is.

    What about it, Doc, a modest wager, say twenty quid to a favourite charity? If UKIP get less than 6% of the vote at the 2015 general election I'll give £20 to your nominated charity. If they score 6% or more you give £20 to the RNLI. Just to make it interesting we cold have a bottle of single malt on the side.

    We have a wager, Doc. I am very partial to the Islay too, Laphroaig for preference.
    Caol ila. Here endeth the lesson.
    Although I have picked up a bottle at the Ben Nevis distillery of a recreation ca 1914 malt, it's meant to be Peary and sublime.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Mr. Lilburne, the Normans, as I understand it, conquered Normandy and agreed to give a nod to the French king in return for continuing to own it without French efforts to take it back. They were not Frenchmen, any more than Welshmen acknowledging the supremacy of England became English.

    Of course, I could be wrong. One cannot be expected to be familiar with such a vulgarly modern period of history (I use the term loosely).

    No you are technically right. But surely anyone who accepts the feudal suzerainty of the French king is... French. They adopted the French language and by 1066 had stopped being Norse.
    Well as Dukes of Normandy the English Kings nominally accepted the suzerenity of the French King, but that didn't mean the English people were French even if their aristocracy mostly was. That said, the Norman people probably did count as French by that point given the language adoption, although given the weakness of the French Crown at the time, I still like to interpret it as not really being conquered by French people proper.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    AndyJS said:

    Comment on Guardian website in response to this poll:

    "We've got to get Ed out NOW to even have a prayer at the next election.
    David could back and dethrone his brother in a powerful and potent coup-sde-famille which would thrill the voters and mark him as ruthless and unstoppable.
    Let's do it this week"


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/29/labour-support-falls-lowest-2010-observer-opinium-opinion-poll

    Ha, lefties go into headless chicken mode...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    edited March 2014

    Top Tory MP resigns as Ministerial aide following allegations by Brazilian male escort

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mark-menzies--resigns-government-3300512

    It's an alliteration that newspapers like the Mirror find almost impossible to resist: Mark Menzies MP would not qualify as a 'Top Tory' under any rational definition of the term.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Lilburne, if the Normans were mere Frenchmen then England would have become part of the kingdom of France after its conquest. The Welsh also speak English, but it doesn't make them English.

    The Normans took Sicily, as well as England, and stirred up rather a bit of trouble in the Balkans (I forget the name precisely, something like the Great Company, a sizeable band of rogues that caused the Byzantines some sleepless nights).
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    I too favour Caol Ila. One day I plan to go to Islay and do the tour. Purely in the interest of proper research of course.

    Would you count all UK GE votes as the denominator of the 6%? If so its a bet. My charity would be Diabetes UK. I am also happy with a bottle of single malt, Islay preferred!

    @FoxInSox

    "I suspect that they will poll more than 2010, but not more than 6% and most of that will be in safe Tory seats where it makes little difference."

    Is that a prediction that UKIP will score less than 6&% of the vote in 2015? If it is I feel I have to ask the good Doctor if he is prepared to put his money where his prediction is.

    What about it, Doc, a modest wager, say twenty quid to a favourite charity? If UKIP get less than 6% of the vote at the 2015 general election I'll give £20 to your nominated charity. If they score 6% or more you give £20 to the RNLI. Just to make it interesting we cold have a bottle of single malt on the side.

    We have a wager, Doc. I am very partial to the Islay too, Laphroaig for preference.
    Caol ila. Here endeth the lesson.
    Although I have picked up a bottle at the Ben Nevis distillery of a recreation ca 1914 malt, it's meant to be Peary and sublime.
    Thus far I have looked round the Glen Ord distillery (now producing singleton of Ord for overseas markets), the Oban distillery, the Dalwhinnie and the Ben Nevis distilleries
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704

    It is to be hoped that after today we've seen the last of young Mr Dernbach in an England cricket team.

    It wasn't that long ago that Mitchell Johnson was a laughing stock. Give Dembach time, he'll come good.

    I think Dernbach has had long enough in the England team, at least at present. Mitchell Johnson, IIRC, had a period out of the Aussie team to sort himself out. Dernbach's now 28, and could probably do, like Johnson, with a year or two out of the limelight to review his action.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    RodCrosby said:

    AndyJS said:

    Comment on Guardian website in response to this poll:

    "We've got to get Ed out NOW to even have a prayer at the next election.
    David could back and dethrone his brother in a powerful and potent coup-sde-famille which would thrill the voters and mark him as ruthless and unstoppable.
    Let's do it this week"


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/29/labour-support-falls-lowest-2010-observer-opinium-opinion-poll

    Ha, lefties go into headless chicken mode...
    Having been in that mode for several years now, the Tories doubtless can offer some advice on how to handle such a mode. The indiscipline and blind panic of many Tories has been hard not to notice at times in recent years, even if others in their ranks are made of sterner stuff.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    kle4 said:

    Top Tory MP resigns as Ministerial aide following allegations by Brazilian male escort

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mark-menzies--resigns-government-3300512

    I don't normally say this sort of thing, but 'Top Tory' is a bit of a stretch, isn't it? Also, how long since we had a rent boy scandal, was there a pool going on it?
    Jinx!!

This discussion has been closed.