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The latest White House betting – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,414
edited April 11 in General
The latest White House betting – politicalbetting.com

The Republicans have regained the favourites slot after Trump’s latest tariffs announcement. I suspect over the next few months this betting market may end up reflecting the US markets both in terms of equity and borrowing costs.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,777
    By 2028 the only party permitted may be MAGA
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,552
    I am in the office and the sounds I have made when I saw this tweet has led to HR launching an investigation.



    https://x.com/LFC/status/1910588224474394687
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,474
    See aircraft sales are in turmoil. You don't knock out a plane in 24 hours and buyers and sellers have no idea what tariffs will apply.

    Also see Tesla have withdrawn 2 cars for sale in China which are not locally made.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,491
    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,491
    So it seems that the budget plan which has just passed from Congress reduces spending by $4bn.

    Didn't Musk promise to find $2 TRILLION in cuts through DOGE ?
  • I am in the office and the sounds I have made when I saw this tweet has led to HR launching an investigation.



    https://x.com/LFC/status/1910588224474394687

    Glad its for 2 years too so we don't have deja vu next season over the drama.

    Seems like Van Dijk is staying too, given recent reports. Hope so.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,388
    edited April 11

    FPT

    Foxy

    I am sure the PB Tories will be here shortly to celebrate the news.

    Broad based too, with expansion in all of services, manufacturing and construction.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/gdpmonthlyestimateuk/february2025#the-services-sector
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,032

    So it seems that the budget plan which has just passed from Congress reduces spending by $4bn.

    Didn't Musk promise to find $2 TRILLION in cuts through DOGE ?

    Simply apply the politicians' trick of aggregating spending or savings over however many years it needs to reach the desired answer.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,777

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Has it? Trump said "we have no powers over El Salvador". If he ignores the court they do what? If he pays lip service but the guy stays in jail they do what?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,400

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    this is top news. at last. some sign of fight back.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,388
    Roger said:


    FPT

    Foxy

    I am sure the PB Tories will be here shortly to celebrate the news.

    Broad based too, with expansion in all of services, manufacturing and construction.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/gdpmonthlyestimateuk/february2025#the-services-sector

    Calling Alanbrooke...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,104

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,451
    F1: Sainz says a naughty word. Will the FIA's censors slap him with a fresh fine?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/articles/c5yggyp0nmvo
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,839
    edited April 11
    The Republicans really shouldn't be favourites to win the next presidential election. The last time a party won a third term in the White House was 1988 and before that 1940 and Trump is no Reagan or FDR and Vance no Bush Sr.

    The last President to raise tariffs as much as Trump has was Hoover and FDR beat him in 1932 after the Depression and the Republicans didn't win the White House again until 1952 with Ike, albeit with a few midterm Congress wins in
    between.

    Trump and Vance would need to hope more jobs are created by the tariffs in US manufacturing than lost by exporters and that more buy American to limit cost of living rises and inflation
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,075
    Why any sane person would vote Republican after this s***show is the question.
  • HYUFD said:

    The Republicans really shouldn't be favourites to win the next presidential election. The last time a party won a third term in the White House was 1988 and before that 1940 and Trump is no Reagan or FDR and Vance no Bush Sr.

    The last President to raise tariffs as much as Trump has was Hoover and FDR beat him in 1932 and the Republicans didn't win the White House again until 1952 with Ike, albeit with a few midterm Congress wins in between

    If the Republicans win the White House next time it will be the second continuous term of the GOP holding the Oval Office, not the third.

    Prior to Trump only Carter had failed to secure a second continuous term for his party since the 19th Century, but now Trump and Biden both failed on that metric too so its all up in the air for next time.
  • IanB2 said:

    Why any sane person would vote Republican after this s***show is the question.

    Democracy doesn't include a sanity test.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,839
    edited April 11
    Roger said:


    FPT

    Foxy

    I am sure the PB Tories will be here shortly to celebrate the news.

    Broad based too, with expansion in all of services, manufacturing and construction.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/gdpmonthlyestimateuk/february2025#the-services-sector

    Less than 0.5% growth in services and construction and the growth in manufacturing after decline in January will almost certainly be reversed as
    exporters of goods to the US
    are hit by Trump's tariffs
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,498
    edited April 11
    This week's Nat Con Squad podcast.

    I find this interesting because it is a group of youngish, quite prominent, intellectuals - including Amber Duke from the Spectator USA - justifying the Trump line.

    They term the stock market reaction this week "hysteria".

    00:00 - Intro
    01:27 - The Tariff Meltdown
    12:22 - SCOTUS Big Decisions
    19:57 - House Passes Budget and Voter ID Law
    34:24 - Lower Energy Cost Brings Down Consumer Prices
    45:28 - Final Thoughts

    I don't agree with any of it usually, but it's interesting as a data point on "Thinking Trumpism". There's a lot of nitpicking and dot & tittle, and trying to find excuses to ignore the substantive question (eg Unconstitutional use of the Alien Enemies Act), whilst casting challenges as what they are doing themselves.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqABWlBXxcY
  • Foxy said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
    Bemused by the idea that he might cancel the holiday to Miami based on fears that he might end up in Guantanamo.

    He's white British, he'll be fine.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,304

    IanB2 said:

    Why any sane person would vote Republican after this s***show is the question.

    Democracy doesn't include a sanity test.
    There ain't no sanity clause in Trumpworld
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,961

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Has it? Trump said "we have no powers over El Salvador". If he ignores the court they do what? If he pays lip service but the guy stays in jail they do what?
    Depose Trump and install Vance.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,298
    Fair play regarding the growth figure, that’s much better than I’d expect. Usual caveats, one month, yadda yadda.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,388
    HYUFD said:

    The Republicans really shouldn't be favourites to win the next presidential election. The last time a party won a third term in the White House was 1988 and before that 1940 and Trump is no Reagan or FDR and Vance no Bush Sr.

    The last President to raise tariffs as much as Trump has was Hoover and FDR beat him in 1932 after the Depression and the Republicans didn't win the White House again until 1952 with Ike, albeit with a few midterm Congress wins in
    between.

    Trump and Vance would need to hope more jobs are created by the tariffs in US manufacturing than lost by exporters and that more buy American to limit cost of living rises and inflation

    And more to the point they look absolutely ridiculous.

    Trump has trashed the reputation of the US in a way that no one could have believed possible.

    And he did it in a week!

    Gerald Ratner will be green with envy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,839
    IanB2 said:

    Why any sane person would vote Republican after this s***show is the question.

    Conservatives, MAGA and evangelicals still will regardless but Independent swing voters may not and they decide elections
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,491

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Has it? Trump said "we have no powers over El Salvador". If he ignores the court they do what? If he pays lip service but the guy stays in jail they do what?
    Losing the goodwill of SCOTUS would be a pretty stupid thing to do.

    Sensible people use their political capital on things that matter.

    Now Trump works on his own scale when it comes to losing goodwill and being sensible.

    But the price of ignoring SCOTUS on this will be SCOTUS ruling against him on future, more important cases.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,687

    F1: Sainz says a naughty word. Will the FIA's censors slap him with a fresh fine?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/articles/c5yggyp0nmvo

    Do bears shit in woods? Of course they will because it's a distraction from the other story about their internal management controls...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,491

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    this is top news. at last. some sign of fight back.
    I think the key thing is that both Alito and Thomas ruled against Trump.

    All the judges have their limits as to how far they'll let Trump go.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,839

    HYUFD said:

    The Republicans really shouldn't be favourites to win the next presidential election. The last time a party won a third term in the White House was 1988 and before that 1940 and Trump is no Reagan or FDR and Vance no Bush Sr.

    The last President to raise tariffs as much as Trump has was Hoover and FDR beat him in 1932 and the Republicans didn't win the White House again until 1952 with Ike, albeit with a few midterm Congress wins in between

    If the Republicans win the White House next time it will be the second continuous term of the GOP holding the Oval Office, not the third.

    Prior to Trump only Carter had failed to secure a second continuous term for his party since the 19th Century, but now Trump and Biden both failed on that metric too so its all up in the air for next time.
    Given Trump will already have served two terms effectively by 2028 it will basically be Vance or Trump Jr running for his third term
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,998
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Republicans really shouldn't be favourites to win the next presidential election. The last time a party won a third term in the White House was 1988 and before that 1940 and Trump is no Reagan or FDR and Vance no Bush Sr.

    The last President to raise tariffs as much as Trump has was Hoover and FDR beat him in 1932 after the Depression and the Republicans didn't win the White House again until 1952 with Ike, albeit with a few midterm Congress wins in
    between.

    Trump and Vance would need to hope more jobs are created by the tariffs in US manufacturing than lost by exporters and that more buy American to limit cost of living rises and inflation

    And more to the point they look absolutely ridiculous.

    Trump has trashed the reputation of the US in a way that no one could have believed possible.

    And he did it in a week!

    Gerald Ratner will be green with envy.
    Intensifying the verdegris

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,451
    eek said:

    F1: Sainz says a naughty word. Will the FIA's censors slap him with a fresh fine?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/articles/c5yggyp0nmvo

    Do bears shit in woods? Of course they will because it's a distraction from the other story about their internal management controls...
    Stories*, Mr. eek. I've been drafting the podcast news section and there are multiple things, including Reid's resignation, new comments by Robyn and Richards.

    I hope someone stands against MBS, but will believe it when I see it.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,491

    So it seems that the budget plan which has just passed from Congress reduces spending by $4bn.

    Didn't Musk promise to find $2 TRILLION in cuts through DOGE ?

    Simply apply the politicians' trick of aggregating spending or savings over however many years it needs to reach the desired answer.
    That might fool some voters but I don't think it will fool the markets.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Republicans really shouldn't be favourites to win the next presidential election. The last time a party won a third term in the White House was 1988 and before that 1940 and Trump is no Reagan or FDR and Vance no Bush Sr.

    The last President to raise tariffs as much as Trump has was Hoover and FDR beat him in 1932 and the Republicans didn't win the White House again until 1952 with Ike, albeit with a few midterm Congress wins in between

    If the Republicans win the White House next time it will be the second continuous term of the GOP holding the Oval Office, not the third.

    Prior to Trump only Carter had failed to secure a second continuous term for his party since the 19th Century, but now Trump and Biden both failed on that metric too so its all up in the air for next time.
    Given Trump will already have served two terms effectively by 2028 it will basically be Vance or Trump Jr running for his third term
    Not continuous though, it will be the second continuous term.

    You can't class it as a third as its a different person, so you can either look at the individual in which case its first, or continuity, in which case its second.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,149

    Foxy said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
    Bemused by the idea that he might cancel the holiday to Miami based on fears that he might end up in Guantanamo.

    He's white British, he'll be fine.
    That girl from Monmouthshire was thrown in jail for a week for a minor administrative error.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,388
    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Republicans really shouldn't be favourites to win the next presidential election. The last time a party won a third term in the White House was 1988 and before that 1940 and Trump is no Reagan or FDR and Vance no Bush Sr.

    The last President to raise tariffs as much as Trump has was Hoover and FDR beat him in 1932 after the Depression and the Republicans didn't win the White House again until 1952 with Ike, albeit with a few midterm Congress wins in
    between.

    Trump and Vance would need to hope more jobs are created by the tariffs in US manufacturing than lost by exporters and that more buy American to limit cost of living rises and inflation

    And more to the point they look absolutely ridiculous.

    Trump has trashed the reputation of the US in a way that no one could have believed possible.

    And he did it in a week!

    Gerald Ratner will be green with envy.
    Intensifying the verdegris

    A new word! Now I'll try to understand the sentence
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,498
    edited April 11
    Foxy said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
    On conditions in The Mega jail in El Salvador. Prisoners are incarcerated in cells of 100-150 per cell with under 1sqm of floor space per prisoner, with steel bunks in 4 tiers, and do not get cutlery with which to eat their (inadequate) food. I think it is one toilet and two washbasins per cell. Unconvicted detainees are treated the same.

    There is no expectation of eventual release; it is a human warehouse, without humanity.

    CNN report from inside - 5 minutes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eL5Njm97U
  • The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Has it? Trump said "we have no powers over El Salvador". If he ignores the court they do what? If he pays lip service but the guy stays in jail they do what?
    Losing the goodwill of SCOTUS would be a pretty stupid thing to do.

    Sensible people use their political capital on things that matter.

    Now Trump works on his own scale when it comes to losing goodwill and being sensible.

    But the price of ignoring SCOTUS on this will be SCOTUS ruling against him on future, more important cases.
    The worry in this case is that he doesn't ignore the court but simply says its out of his hands and lacks jurisdiction to act.

    'We are happy to facilitate his return but El Salvador won't return him to us and there's nothing more we can do' with a nudge-nudge, wink-wink to El Salvador to play along.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,434

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Not when it matters.

    Note the narrowness of the ruling (the liberals issued a minority opinion which is considerably more expansive).
    ..The rest of the District Court’s order remains in effect but requires clarification on remand. The order properly requires the Government to “facilitate”Abrego Garcia’s release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent to El Salvador. The intended scope of the term “effectuate” in the District Court’s order is, however, unclear, and may exceed the District Court's authority. The District Court should clarify its directive, with due regard for the deference owed to the ExecutiveBranch in the conduct of foreign affairs. For its part, the Government should be prepared to share what it can concerning the steps it has taken and the prospect of further steps...

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,448
    Roger said:


    FPT

    Foxy

    I am sure the PB Tories will be here shortly to celebrate the news.

    Broad based too, with expansion in all of services, manufacturing and construction.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/gdpmonthlyestimateuk/february2025#the-services-sector

    That’s a relief. There have been small upward revisions for 2023/4 as well.
  • Roger said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Republicans really shouldn't be favourites to win the next presidential election. The last time a party won a third term in the White House was 1988 and before that 1940 and Trump is no Reagan or FDR and Vance no Bush Sr.

    The last President to raise tariffs as much as Trump has was Hoover and FDR beat him in 1932 after the Depression and the Republicans didn't win the White House again until 1952 with Ike, albeit with a few midterm Congress wins in
    between.

    Trump and Vance would need to hope more jobs are created by the tariffs in US manufacturing than lost by exporters and that more buy American to limit cost of living rises and inflation

    And more to the point they look absolutely ridiculous.

    Trump has trashed the reputation of the US in a way that no one could have believed possible.

    And he did it in a week!

    Gerald Ratner will be green with envy.
    Intensifying the verdegris

    A new word! Now I'll try to understand the sentence
    A word I've only ever heard before from Wicked.

    And one day, he'll say to me, "Elphaba,
    A girl who is so superior
    Shouldn't a girl who's so good inside
    Have a matching exterior?
    And since folks here to an absurd degree
    Seem fixated on your verdigris
    Would it be all right by you
    If I de-greenify you?"
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,724
    HYUFD said:

    The Republicans really shouldn't be favourites to win the next presidential election. The last time a party won a third term in the White House was 1988 and before that 1940 and Trump is no Reagan or FDR and Vance no Bush Sr.

    The last President to raise tariffs as much as Trump has was Hoover and FDR beat him in 1932 after the Depression and the Republicans didn't win the White House again until 1952 with Ike, albeit with a few midterm Congress wins in
    between.

    Trump and Vance would need to hope more jobs are created by the tariffs in US manufacturing than lost by exporters and that more buy American to limit cost of living rises and inflation

    The examples in your first paragraph are of CONSECUTIVE terms. A victory in 2028 will be the Republicans' second consecutive term, not their third. Which is pretty unremarkable, indeed commonplace.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,434

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Has it? Trump said "we have no powers over El Salvador". If he ignores the court they do what? If he pays lip service but the guy stays in jail they do what?
    The ruling leaves a fair amount of wiggle room fur the administration. Let's see what they do.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,777

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Has it? Trump said "we have no powers over El Salvador". If he ignores the court they do what? If he pays lip service but the guy stays in jail they do what?
    Losing the goodwill of SCOTUS would be a pretty stupid thing to do.

    Sensible people use their political capital on things that matter.

    Now Trump works on his own scale when it comes to losing goodwill and being sensible.

    But the price of ignoring SCOTUS on this will be SCOTUS ruling against him on future, more important cases.
    I think there are differences here.

    The SC instructing Trump to do something - which he then ignores - is one thing.

    The SC "declined to intervene" against a lower court ruling. That is completely different. The ruling states that the DC District Court should continue to pursue this.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,498
    edited April 11
    Nigelb said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Not when it matters.

    Note the narrowness of the ruling (the liberals issued a minority opinion which is considerably more expansive).
    ..The rest of the District Court’s order remains in effect but requires clarification on remand. The order properly requires the Government to “facilitate”Abrego Garcia’s release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent to El Salvador. The intended scope of the term “effectuate” in the District Court’s order is, however, unclear, and may exceed the District Court's authority. The District Court should clarify its directive, with due regard for the deference owed to the ExecutiveBranch in the conduct of foreign affairs. For its part, the Government should be prepared to share what it can concerning the steps it has taken and the prospect of further steps...

    I haven't read the whole ruling and I have seen interpretations from both sides, but "should" will give Trump an out. He will simply assert "we don't agree", and will sit on his hands.

    One of his regime's core values is callousness, and indifference to people identified as "other". Whether they are actually US Citizens or Green Card Holders means nothing unless that becomes a matter of public controversy.
  • MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
    On conditions in The Mega jail in El Salvador. Prisoners are incarcerated in cells of 100-150 per cell with under 1sqm of floor space per prisoner, with steel bunks in 4 tiers, and do not get cutlery with which to eat their (inadequate) food. I think it is one toilet and two washbasins per cell. Unconvicted detainees are treated the same.

    There is no expectation of eventual release; it is a human warehouse, without humanity.

    CNN report from inside - 5 minutes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eL5Njm97U
    How long before someone in the UK proposes that as an alternative to Rwanda for asylum seekers?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,388
    IanB2 said:

    Why any sane person would vote Republican after this s***show is the question.

    An interesting question would be which country out of Russia the US and Israel has suffered the biggest reputational damage as a result of their actions in the last couple of years
  • MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Not when it matters.

    Note the narrowness of the ruling (the liberals issued a minority opinion which is considerably more expansive).
    ..The rest of the District Court’s order remains in effect but requires clarification on remand. The order properly requires the Government to “facilitate”Abrego Garcia’s release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent to El Salvador. The intended scope of the term “effectuate” in the District Court’s order is, however, unclear, and may exceed the District Court's authority. The District Court should clarify its directive, with due regard for the deference owed to the ExecutiveBranch in the conduct of foreign affairs. For its part, the Government should be prepared to share what it can concerning the steps it has taken and the prospect of further steps...

    I haven't read the whole ruling and I have seen interpretations from both sides, but "should" will give Trump an out. He will simply assert "we don't agree", and will sit on his hands.

    One of his regime's core values is callousness, and indifference to people identified as "other". Whether they are actually US Citizens or Green Card Holders means nothing unless that becomes a matter of public controversy.
    Sadly he doesn't even need to assert "we don't agree".

    Just sit on his hands and let inertia take the rest. The ruling is so narrow, there's not much more that can be done if he doesn't act.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,304

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
    On conditions in The Mega jail in El Salvador. Prisoners are incarcerated in cells of 100-150 per cell with under 1sqm of floor space per prisoner, with steel bunks in 4 tiers, and do not get cutlery with which to eat their (inadequate) food. I think it is one toilet and two washbasins per cell. Unconvicted detainees are treated the same.

    There is no expectation of eventual release; it is a human warehouse, without humanity.

    CNN report from inside - 5 minutes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eL5Njm97U
    How long before someone in the UK proposes that as an alternative to Rwanda for asylum seekers?
    Couldn't we just send anyone arriving on a small boat to the US?

    Numbers arriving would drop to zero overnight.
  • ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
    On conditions in The Mega jail in El Salvador. Prisoners are incarcerated in cells of 100-150 per cell with under 1sqm of floor space per prisoner, with steel bunks in 4 tiers, and do not get cutlery with which to eat their (inadequate) food. I think it is one toilet and two washbasins per cell. Unconvicted detainees are treated the same.

    There is no expectation of eventual release; it is a human warehouse, without humanity.

    CNN report from inside - 5 minutes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eL5Njm97U
    How long before someone in the UK proposes that as an alternative to Rwanda for asylum seekers?
    Couldn't we just send anyone arriving on a small boat to the US?

    Numbers arriving would drop to zero overnight.
    Sending people on small boats across the Atlantic would create an awful lot of drownings.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,491

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Has it? Trump said "we have no powers over El Salvador". If he ignores the court they do what? If he pays lip service but the guy stays in jail they do what?
    Losing the goodwill of SCOTUS would be a pretty stupid thing to do.

    Sensible people use their political capital on things that matter.

    Now Trump works on his own scale when it comes to losing goodwill and being sensible.

    But the price of ignoring SCOTUS on this will be SCOTUS ruling against him on future, more important cases.
    I think there are differences here.

    The SC instructing Trump to do something - which he then ignores - is one thing.

    The SC "declined to intervene" against a lower court ruling. That is completely different. The ruling states that the DC District Court should continue to pursue this.
    It isn't that different, that's just normal procedure.

    SCOTUS has ruled and SCOTUS will notice how Trump responds.

    Now Trump might try to ignore SCOTUS but creating future bad will from them over the whereabouts of a nobody would be a senseless thing to do.
  • The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Has it? Trump said "we have no powers over El Salvador". If he ignores the court they do what? If he pays lip service but the guy stays in jail they do what?
    Losing the goodwill of SCOTUS would be a pretty stupid thing to do.

    Sensible people use their political capital on things that matter.

    Now Trump works on his own scale when it comes to losing goodwill and being sensible.

    But the price of ignoring SCOTUS on this will be SCOTUS ruling against him on future, more important cases.
    I think there are differences here.

    The SC instructing Trump to do something - which he then ignores - is one thing.

    The SC "declined to intervene" against a lower court ruling. That is completely different. The ruling states that the DC District Court should continue to pursue this.
    It isn't that different, that's just normal procedure.

    SCOTUS has ruled and SCOTUS will notice how Trump responds.

    Now Trump might try to ignore SCOTUS but creating future bad will from them over the whereabouts of a nobody would be a senseless thing to do.
    Sadly the ruling is deliberately narrow.

    There is a path available for Trump to both respect the SCOTUS ruling and leave the guy to suffer in El Salvador.

    Its the wrong thing to do, and if Trump had any shame he wouldn't do it, but if Trump had any shame we wouldn't be where we are today.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,552
    Me?

    Oh I’m just high up in the Tien Shan mountains LISTENING TO TAYLOR SWIFT
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,491
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Republicans really shouldn't be favourites to win the next presidential election. The last time a party won a third term in the White House was 1988 and before that 1940 and Trump is no Reagan or FDR and Vance no Bush Sr.

    The last President to raise tariffs as much as Trump has was Hoover and FDR beat him in 1932 after the Depression and the Republicans didn't win the White House again until 1952 with Ike, albeit with a few midterm Congress wins in
    between.

    Trump and Vance would need to hope more jobs are created by the tariffs in US manufacturing than lost by exporters and that more buy American to limit cost of living rises and inflation

    The examples in your first paragraph are of CONSECUTIVE terms. A victory in 2028 will be the Republicans' second consecutive term, not their third. Which is pretty unremarkable, indeed commonplace.
    It would be.

    Though Trump's incompetence in failing to be re-elected in 2020 and then Biden messing things up in 2024 has broken the standard pattern.

    What should have happened was Trump wins in 2016 and 2020 followed by Dem wins in 2024 and 2028.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,400
    Nigelb said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Has it? Trump said "we have no powers over El Salvador". If he ignores the court they do what? If he pays lip service but the guy stays in jail they do what?
    The ruling leaves a fair amount of wiggle room fur the administration. Let's see what they do.
    The argument, such as it is, seems to be around whether this is all counts now as "diplomacy" and "foreign relations" as the poor sod is in a foreign jail. Obviously Trump 2.0 are pressing that this is now purely an executive issue as it is foreign relations.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,491

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Has it? Trump said "we have no powers over El Salvador". If he ignores the court they do what? If he pays lip service but the guy stays in jail they do what?
    Losing the goodwill of SCOTUS would be a pretty stupid thing to do.

    Sensible people use their political capital on things that matter.

    Now Trump works on his own scale when it comes to losing goodwill and being sensible.

    But the price of ignoring SCOTUS on this will be SCOTUS ruling against him on future, more important cases.
    The worry in this case is that he doesn't ignore the court but simply says its out of his hands and lacks jurisdiction to act.

    'We are happy to facilitate his return but El Salvador won't return him to us and there's nothing more we can do' with a nudge-nudge, wink-wink to El Salvador to play along.
    He can play those games but what's the point.

    If this nobody is returned to the USA he'll be forgotten about in a week.

    If he isn't then Trump has lost goodwill on SCOTUS.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,149
    Leon said:

    Me?

    Oh I’m just high up in the Tien Shan mountains LISTENING TO TAYLOR SWIFT

    You've accidentally posted in the wrong blog again you silly sausage.
  • The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Has it? Trump said "we have no powers over El Salvador". If he ignores the court they do what? If he pays lip service but the guy stays in jail they do what?
    Losing the goodwill of SCOTUS would be a pretty stupid thing to do.

    Sensible people use their political capital on things that matter.

    Now Trump works on his own scale when it comes to losing goodwill and being sensible.

    But the price of ignoring SCOTUS on this will be SCOTUS ruling against him on future, more important cases.
    The worry in this case is that he doesn't ignore the court but simply says its out of his hands and lacks jurisdiction to act.

    'We are happy to facilitate his return but El Salvador won't return him to us and there's nothing more we can do' with a nudge-nudge, wink-wink to El Salvador to play along.
    He can play those games but what's the point.

    If this nobody is returned to the USA he'll be forgotten about in a week.

    If he isn't then Trump has lost goodwill on SCOTUS.
    You need to re-read the scorpion and the frog.

    Trump is a scorpion. He doesn't give a damn about goodwill.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,101
    I see China now responds with a 125% Tariff. Is this ever going to end?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,218
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
    On conditions in The Mega jail in El Salvador. Prisoners are incarcerated in cells of 100-150 per cell with under 1sqm of floor space per prisoner, with steel bunks in 4 tiers, and do not get cutlery with which to eat their (inadequate) food. I think it is one toilet and two washbasins per cell. Unconvicted detainees are treated the same.

    There is no expectation of eventual release; it is a human warehouse, without humanity.

    CNN report from inside - 5 minutes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eL5Njm97U
    As related in The Gulag Archipelago, that's close to the conditions at various times in the Leninist/Stalinist terrors, and accounted to be one of the deliberate tortures of the regimes. I guess it's fine when it's a populist, born again conservative that loves crypto currency doing it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,498

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
    On conditions in The Mega jail in El Salvador. Prisoners are incarcerated in cells of 100-150 per cell with under 1sqm of floor space per prisoner, with steel bunks in 4 tiers, and do not get cutlery with which to eat their (inadequate) food. I think it is one toilet and two washbasins per cell. Unconvicted detainees are treated the same.

    There is no expectation of eventual release; it is a human warehouse, without humanity.

    CNN report from inside - 5 minutes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eL5Njm97U
    How long before someone in the UK proposes that as an alternative to Rwanda for asylum seekers?
    I think there are two arms to that:

    1 - Incarceration in camps.
    2 - Conditions not that much different from concentration camps used before WW2. NB I mean concentration camps, not extermination camps.

    I think we have had proposals from political parties around (1) here. I have not seen (2) - although Lee Anderson rhetoric has arguably danced with deliberate cruelty when he's race-baiting.

    We have secure detention whilst preparing for removal, and for "in process". Others may know more about longer-term detention.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,552

    Leon said:

    Me?

    Oh I’m just high up in the Tien Shan mountains LISTENING TO TAYLOR SWIFT

    You've accidentally posted in the wrong blog again you silly sausage.
    I thought I’d hijack the thread and divert it into a discussion of the appropriate music for different landscapes and travel experiences. And I’ve started with the ludicrous idea that the ideal soundtrack for the fabled “Celestial Mountains” of Central Asia is “Red” by Taylor Swift

    It’s certainly more cheering than ANOTHER chapter of the Gulag Archipelago
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,201

    I see China now responds with a 125% Tariff. Is this ever going to end?

    Is anything still actually being shipped between China and the US ?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,149
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Me?

    Oh I’m just high up in the Tien Shan mountains LISTENING TO TAYLOR SWIFT

    You've accidentally posted in the wrong blog again you silly sausage.
    I thought I’d hijack the thread and divert it into a discussion of the appropriate music for different landscapes and travel experiences. And I’ve started with the ludicrous idea that the ideal soundtrack for the fabled “Celestial Mountains” of Central Asia is “Red” by Taylor Swift

    It’s certainly more cheering than ANOTHER chapter of the Gulag Archipelago
    Sorry, I thought you had made a genuine mistake.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,584

    So it seems that the budget plan which has just passed from Congress reduces spending by $4bn.

    Didn't Musk promise to find $2 TRILLION in cuts through DOGE ?

    Simply apply the politicians' trick of aggregating spending or savings over however many years it needs to reach the desired answer.
    It's a 500-fold difference, so, sure, over the next half millennium, the numbers will match up.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,584

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Has it? Trump said "we have no powers over El Salvador". If he ignores the court they do what? If he pays lip service but the guy stays in jail they do what?
    It's a(nother) stupid argument from the Republican administration, however. El Salvador isn't desperate to hold on to this person. They only took him because the US paid them to. Pay them and they'll hand him back.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,448
    Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    Why any sane person would vote Republican after this s***show is the question.

    An interesting question would be which country out of Russia the US and Israel has suffered the biggest reputational damage as a result of their actions in the last couple of years
    Russia has no reputation to lose.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,034
    @SpencerHakimian

    The spokeswoman for China’s ministry of foreign affairs just posted this:

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1910401104073928808
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,839
    edited April 11
    Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    Why any sane person would vote Republican after this s***show is the question.

    An interesting question would be which country out of Russia the US and Israel has suffered the biggest reputational damage as a result of their actions in the last couple of years
    Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    Why any sane person would vote Republican after this s***show is the question.

    An interesting question would be
    which country out of Russia the US and Israel has suffered the biggest
    reputational damage as a result of
    their actions in the last couple of years
    Putin has still part conquered his neighbour, has NATO scrambling to contain him and the US President in his pocket.

    Trump may be mad but is dictating a global economic shift to protectionism from free trade.

    Netanyahu is acting in a brutal fashion but has got some hostages released and is taking over Gaza and pushing back Hamas.

    None have reputations as nice liberals but in terms of realpolitik power all still have it and arguably more so

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,075
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Why any sane person would vote Republican after this s***show is the question.

    Conservatives, MAGA and evangelicals still will regardless but Independent swing voters may not and they decide elections
    My point exactly
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,498
    edited April 11

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
    On conditions in The Mega jail in El Salvador. Prisoners are incarcerated in cells of 100-150 per cell with under 1sqm of floor space per prisoner, with steel bunks in 4 tiers, and do not get cutlery with which to eat their (inadequate) food. I think it is one toilet and two washbasins per cell. Unconvicted detainees are treated the same.

    There is no expectation of eventual release; it is a human warehouse, without humanity.

    CNN report from inside - 5 minutes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eL5Njm97U
    How long before someone in the UK proposes that as an alternative to Rwanda for asylum seekers?
    Couldn't we just send anyone arriving on a small boat to the US?

    Numbers arriving would drop to zero overnight.
    Sending people on small boats across the Atlantic would create an awful lot of drownings.
    That raises one interesting point - does the USA need to come off the list of "safe countries" (if it is currently on it)?

    One figure to watch is just how far the USA ratings collapse on the Freedom House reports. I think it will be towards bottom of "Free", but perhaps not quite be reduced to "Partially Free".

    That would put them alongside places like Brazil, Bulgaria and Lesotho.

    https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores?sort=asc&order=Total Score and Status
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,075
    Scott_xP said:

    @SpencerHakimian

    The spokeswoman for China’s ministry of foreign affairs just posted this:

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1910401104073928808

    Funny! Although I'm not sure about their maths? Depending on the import price, I guess
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,002
    edited April 11
    From zero to near half the vote

    Trump doesn't seem to be having an adverse effect on Reform

    Labour must be very worried about the Frodsham by election [ Runcorn and Helsby] on this evidence

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1910462628717355307?t=tcHXlsq19AALbVuHg3LV3g&s=19
  • Pulpstar said:

    I see China now responds with a 125% Tariff. Is this ever going to end?

    Is anything still actually being shipped between China and the US ?
    The stupidity in the tariffs (well one of many) is that much of the impact will ultimately just be displacement activity that marginally drives up cost but has no real impact.

    Take iPhones for example. Currently mostly made in China, with some made in India, with those sold in the US primarily made in China.

    The logical thing for Apple to do is not to start making them in America, its to divert the Indian ones to the US and divert the Chinese ones to the rest of the world.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,639

    So it seems that the budget plan which has just passed from Congress reduces spending by $4bn.

    Didn't Musk promise to find $2 TRILLION in cuts through DOGE ?

    Simply apply the politicians' trick of aggregating spending or savings over however many years it needs to reach the desired answer.
    It's a 500-fold difference, so, sure, over the next half millennium, the numbers will match up.
    The "£18b for Chagos!" technique.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,075

    From zero to near half the vote

    Trump doesn't seem to be having an adverse effect on Reform

    Labour must be very worried about the Frodsham by election [ Runcorn and Helsby] on this evidence

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1910462628717355307?t=tcHXlsq19AALbVuHg3LV3g&s=19

    There will of course be a fair few people willing to vote Reform in some passing by-election - or indeed to give this preference to pollsters - as a protest, who wouldn't dream of voting to put them anywhere near power.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,379

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Has it? Trump said "we have no powers over El Salvador". If he ignores the court they do what? If he pays lip service but the guy stays in jail they do what?
    Losing the goodwill of SCOTUS would be a pretty stupid thing to do.

    Sensible people use their political capital on things that matter.

    Now Trump works on his own scale when it comes to losing goodwill and being sensible.

    But the price of ignoring SCOTUS on this will be SCOTUS ruling against him on future, more important cases.
    I think there are differences here.

    The SC instructing Trump to do something - which he then ignores - is one thing.

    The SC "declined to intervene" against a lower court ruling. That is completely different. The ruling states that the DC District Court should continue to pursue this.
    It isn't that different, that's just normal procedure.

    SCOTUS has ruled and SCOTUS will notice how Trump responds.

    Now Trump might try to ignore SCOTUS but creating future bad will from them over the whereabouts of a nobody would be a senseless thing to do.
    Nobody's nobody.

    But creating future bad will could be a life-saver for many if the 'bad will' puts some steel in SCOTUS backbones when it comes to opposing the divine right of Trump.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,639
    Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    Why any sane person would vote Republican after this s***show is the question.

    An interesting question would be which country out of Russia the US and Israel has suffered the biggest reputational damage as a result of their actions in the last couple of years
    On the grounds of "behaviour minus expectations" I'd say the US. Then Israel. Then Russia.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,552

    From zero to near half the vote

    Trump doesn't seem to be having an adverse effect on Reform

    Labour must be very worried about the Frodsham by election [ Runcorn and Helsby] on this evidence

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1910462628717355307?t=tcHXlsq19AALbVuHg3LV3g&s=19

    That’s incredible
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,002
    IanB2 said:

    From zero to near half the vote

    Trump doesn't seem to be having an adverse effect on Reform

    Labour must be very worried about the Frodsham by election [ Runcorn and Helsby] on this evidence

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1910462628717355307?t=tcHXlsq19AALbVuHg3LV3g&s=19

    There will of course be a fair few people willing to vote Reform in some passing by-election - or indeed to give this preference to pollsters - as a protest, who wouldn't dream of voting to put them anywhere near power.
    Let's hope so
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,379
    Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    Why any sane person would vote Republican after this s***show is the question.

    An interesting question would be which country out of Russia the US and Israel has suffered the biggest reputational damage as a result of their actions in the last couple of years
    Be fair, the US has only been a competitor for a few months.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,104
    Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    Why any sane person would vote Republican after this s***show is the question.

    An interesting question would be which country out of Russia the US and Israel has suffered the biggest reputational damage as a result of their actions in the last couple of years
    The USA.

    Russia is surprisingly popular in a lot of the world, particularly India, China Middle East and Africa.

    Israel had pretty much bottomed out already.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,552

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
    On conditions in The Mega jail in El Salvador. Prisoners are incarcerated in cells of 100-150 per cell with under 1sqm of floor space per prisoner, with steel bunks in 4 tiers, and do not get cutlery with which to eat their (inadequate) food. I think it is one toilet and two washbasins per cell. Unconvicted detainees are treated the same.

    There is no expectation of eventual release; it is a human warehouse, without humanity.

    CNN report from inside - 5 minutes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eL5Njm97U
    As related in The Gulag Archipelago, that's close to the conditions at various times in the Leninist/Stalinist terrors, and accounted to be one of the deliberate tortures of the regimes. I guess it's fine when it's a populist, born again conservative that loves crypto currency doing it.
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
    On conditions in The Mega jail in El Salvador. Prisoners are incarcerated in cells of 100-150 per cell with under 1sqm of floor space per prisoner, with steel bunks in 4 tiers, and do not get cutlery with which to eat their (inadequate) food. I think it is one toilet and two washbasins per cell. Unconvicted detainees are treated the same.

    There is no expectation of eventual release; it is a human warehouse, without humanity.

    CNN report from inside - 5 minutes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eL5Njm97U
    Meh. Bunch of gangsters, rapists and commies. Squeeze MORE in

    Also, you’re ignoring the profound upside. From now on no one will get get tattoos, especially on the face

    This is good. Tatts are hideous
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,672
    IanB2 said:

    From zero to near half the vote

    Trump doesn't seem to be having an adverse effect on Reform

    Labour must be very worried about the Frodsham by election [ Runcorn and Helsby] on this evidence

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1910462628717355307?t=tcHXlsq19AALbVuHg3LV3g&s=19

    There will of course be a fair few people willing to vote Reform in some passing by-election - or indeed to give this preference to pollsters - as a protest, who wouldn't dream of voting to put them anywhere near power.
    I think you underestimate the appeal. I don't get the impression of doorstep loathing of Labour or anyone else, but more a sense that voters have tried Lab, Con and LibDem and nothing really changed, so maybe trying Reform is worth a shot. I don't think it's a protest exactly, more a sense that they're new and worth giving a chance. The vagueness of their programme is definitely helpful, enabling them to be all things to everyone except the most politically conscious.

    I think they're rubbish, but quite successful rubbish at this stage.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,104
    IanB2 said:

    From zero to near half the vote

    Trump doesn't seem to be having an adverse effect on Reform

    Labour must be very worried about the Frodsham by election [ Runcorn and Helsby] on this evidence

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1910462628717355307?t=tcHXlsq19AALbVuHg3LV3g&s=19

    There will of course be a fair few people willing to vote Reform in some passing by-election - or indeed to give this preference to pollsters - as a protest, who wouldn't dream of voting to put them anywhere near power.
    Seeing Reform councillors in action is going to be instructive before the GE.

  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,379
    IanB2 said:

    From zero to near half the vote

    Trump doesn't seem to be having an adverse effect on Reform

    Labour must be very worried about the Frodsham by election [ Runcorn and Helsby] on this evidence

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1910462628717355307?t=tcHXlsq19AALbVuHg3LV3g&s=19

    There will of course be a fair few people willing to vote Reform in some passing by-election - or indeed to give this preference to pollsters - as a protest, who wouldn't dream of voting to put them anywhere near power.
    Someone recently commented on here that Reform aren't likely to do well as local councillors because they're not interested in potholes & the like. I'm wondering whether an effect may come into play similar to the attempted communist take-over of the unions. My father was a TU man because he was interested in the welfare of his fellow-workers. He fought a long hard battle against communists because they weren't interested in the people, only in stoking up trouble.

    Yet they still managed to persuade a majority of workers that they were working for their best interests. Maybe Reform can achieve something similar.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,104

    IanB2 said:

    From zero to near half the vote

    Trump doesn't seem to be having an adverse effect on Reform

    Labour must be very worried about the Frodsham by election [ Runcorn and Helsby] on this evidence

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1910462628717355307?t=tcHXlsq19AALbVuHg3LV3g&s=19

    There will of course be a fair few people willing to vote Reform in some passing by-election - or indeed to give this preference to pollsters - as a protest, who wouldn't dream of voting to put them anywhere near power.
    I think you underestimate the appeal. I don't get the impression of doorstep loathing of Labour or anyone else, but more a sense that voters have tried Lab, Con and LibDem and nothing really changed, so maybe trying Reform is worth a shot. I don't think it's a protest exactly, more a sense that they're new and worth giving a chance. The vagueness of their programme is definitely helpful, enabling them to be all things to everyone except the most politically conscious.

    I think they're rubbish, but quite successful rubbish at this stage.
    I got this report from Open Britain in an email, it rings true to me and matches the polling:



    1. Voters feel let down - and they’re not being quiet about it


    This community voted Labour just nine months ago. But many told me they see no sign of the change they were promised. The mood wasn’t apathetic - it was furious.


    People are angry about:

    The scrapping of the winter fuel allowance for pensioners.

    Proposed deep cuts to welfare.

    A government they see as indecisive - or worse, indifferent to their needs.


    They didn’t explicitly say “austerity” or “National Insurance contributions,” but people recognised that several government policies were hurting their neighbours. And they were clear with me: they expected better from Labour.


    2. Starmer’s image problem is real - and dangerous


    There’s also a personal anger building towards Keir Starmer. Some of it is wildly misinformed, based on conspiracies fuelled by Farage, Musk and others. I heard people repeat theories about Jimmy Savile and “Muslim rape gangs”.


    Others refused to speak at all, convinced that saying the wrong thing would land them in jail - the term ‘Keir Stalin’ came up quite a bit.


    When voters feel this disconnected from mainstream politics, they look for alternatives. And right now, that’s where Reform UK is winning.



  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,214

    IanB2 said:

    From zero to near half the vote

    Trump doesn't seem to be having an adverse effect on Reform

    Labour must be very worried about the Frodsham by election [ Runcorn and Helsby] on this evidence

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1910462628717355307?t=tcHXlsq19AALbVuHg3LV3g&s=19

    There will of course be a fair few people willing to vote Reform in some passing by-election - or indeed to give this preference to pollsters - as a protest, who wouldn't dream of voting to put them anywhere near power.
    I think you underestimate the appeal. I don't get the impression of doorstep loathing of Labour or anyone else, but more a sense that voters have tried Lab, Con and LibDem and nothing really changed, so maybe trying Reform is worth a shot. I don't think it's a protest exactly, more a sense that they're new and worth giving a chance. The vagueness of their programme is definitely helpful, enabling them to be all things to everyone except the most politically conscious.

    I think they're rubbish, but quite successful rubbish at this stage.
    I agree with that. And we should take note of history. Yes,there have been times when the right-wing populist party of the day has been squeezed in a general election (2017/19) but there have also been times when it hasn't (2015/24). The two times when it was, was when Corbyn was leader of Labour and Brexit was a live issue; in other words, when there was a strong incentive for UKIP/Brexit types to rally around the best option to keep Labour out because there were high stakes on the table and one of Con/Lab was obviously better for them than the other. That doesn't apply to anything like the same extent now.

    Much the same logic applies for the Lib Dems and Greens as well, re Labour (and on a smaller scale, the Tories), for that matter.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,498

    Pulpstar said:

    I see China now responds with a 125% Tariff. Is this ever going to end?

    Is anything still actually being shipped between China and the US ?
    The stupidity in the tariffs (well one of many) is that much of the impact will ultimately just be displacement activity that marginally drives up cost but has no real impact.

    Take iPhones for example. Currently mostly made in China, with some made in India, with those sold in the US primarily made in China.

    The logical thing for Apple to do is not to start making them in America, its to divert the Indian ones to the US and divert the Chinese ones to the rest of the world.
    The Trumpist Right are coming out with rhetoric about elements of this, eg countries used for "finishing". They call them "passthrough" countries.

    https://youtu.be/dqABWlBXxcY?t=658

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,422
    Foxy said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
    Trump doen't want to mess with a middle aged guy from Il'sun....
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,214
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
    On conditions in The Mega jail in El Salvador. Prisoners are incarcerated in cells of 100-150 per cell with under 1sqm of floor space per prisoner, with steel bunks in 4 tiers, and do not get cutlery with which to eat their (inadequate) food. I think it is one toilet and two washbasins per cell. Unconvicted detainees are treated the same.

    There is no expectation of eventual release; it is a human warehouse, without humanity.

    CNN report from inside - 5 minutes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eL5Njm97U
    As related in The Gulag Archipelago, that's close to the conditions at various times in the Leninist/Stalinist terrors, and accounted to be one of the deliberate tortures of the regimes. I guess it's fine when it's a populist, born again conservative that loves crypto currency doing it.
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
    On conditions in The Mega jail in El Salvador. Prisoners are incarcerated in cells of 100-150 per cell with under 1sqm of floor space per prisoner, with steel bunks in 4 tiers, and do not get cutlery with which to eat their (inadequate) food. I think it is one toilet and two washbasins per cell. Unconvicted detainees are treated the same.

    There is no expectation of eventual release; it is a human warehouse, without humanity.

    CNN report from inside - 5 minutes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eL5Njm97U
    Meh. Bunch of gangsters, rapists and commies. Squeeze MORE in

    Also, you’re ignoring the profound upside. From now on no one will get get tattoos, especially on the face

    This is good. Tatts are hideous
    While I agree with you on tattoos, it's more likely that people just won't go to the States.
  • vikvik Posts: 244

    Scott_xP said:

    @SpencerHakimian

    The spokeswoman for China’s ministry of foreign affairs just posted this:

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1910401104073928808

    Regardless of the maths, I find the idea that MAGA hats are Made in China fairly amusing.
    The "official" ones on Trump's website are Made in the USA, but cost nearly $50.

    Of course, a lot of Trump's supporters are poor & can't afford this, so they buy the Chinese copies which sell for $10.

    This example elegantly summarises the benefits of free trade.

    Free trade saves Trump supporters $40, which they can use on other essential & non-essential living expenses.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,077
    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    Why any sane person would vote Republican after this s***show is the question.

    An interesting question would be which country out of Russia the US and Israel has suffered the biggest reputational damage as a result of their actions in the last couple of years
    Russia has no reputation to lose.
    Now it has. It completely lost the reputation of its military equipment - which was considerable, up to the conflict.

  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,214
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    From zero to near half the vote

    Trump doesn't seem to be having an adverse effect on Reform

    Labour must be very worried about the Frodsham by election [ Runcorn and Helsby] on this evidence

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1910462628717355307?t=tcHXlsq19AALbVuHg3LV3g&s=19

    There will of course be a fair few people willing to vote Reform in some passing by-election - or indeed to give this preference to pollsters - as a protest, who wouldn't dream of voting to put them anywhere near power.
    Seeing Reform councillors in action is going to be instructive before the GE.

    It didn't do much to lessen UKIP's appeal in 2015. I doubt the number of people who are negatively swayed in the GE vote by the performance of local councillors is at all high - particularly when those councillors aren't their own ones. Voters for populist parties, on left or right, are moved more by the message and the blame alleged than by consideration of practical governance. If the latter were much of a consideration, they wouldn't be considering populists in the first place.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,934

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    Has it? Trump said "we have no powers over El Salvador". If he ignores the court they do what? If he pays lip service but the guy stays in jail they do what?
    Losing the goodwill of SCOTUS would be a pretty stupid thing to do.

    Sensible people use their political capital on things that matter.

    Now Trump works on his own scale when it comes to losing goodwill and being sensible.

    But the price of ignoring SCOTUS on this will be SCOTUS ruling against him on future, more important cases.
    The case has complexities, explored well here

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQmqvE01RQE

    Trump's choices are:
    1) Obey and deliver; 2) Pretend to obey but 'fail' to achieve resolution; 3) Defy unequivocally; 4) Delay and compexify for now, and kick the can down the road.

    2 and 4 combined are highly probable. 1 very unlikely, 3 fairly unlikely - they won't pick this case for the proper constitutional crisis. as the government is so clearly 100% in the wrong, and have admitted it in court.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,259
    A ship - the MV Scot Bay - ran aground at Teignmouth yesterday.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scRldYkTiwU

    There's videos of it online, and it was fun seeing the black-and-white Shaldon-Teignmouth passenger ferries pass by it (which, when I was a kid, we all called the 'pirate ships').

    It was refloated last night:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy00m4wj0no
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,998
    Roger said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Republicans really shouldn't be favourites to win the next presidential election. The last time a party won a third term in the White House was 1988 and before that 1940 and Trump is no Reagan or FDR and Vance no Bush Sr.

    The last President to raise tariffs as much as Trump has was Hoover and FDR beat him in 1932 after the Depression and the Republicans didn't win the White House again until 1952 with Ike, albeit with a few midterm Congress wins in
    between.

    Trump and Vance would need to hope more jobs are created by the tariffs in US manufacturing than lost by exporters and that more buy American to limit cost of living rises and inflation

    And more to the point they look absolutely ridiculous.

    Trump has trashed the reputation of the US in a way that no one could have believed possible.

    And he did it in a week!

    Gerald Ratner will be green with envy.
    Intensifying the verdegris

    A new word! Now I'll try to understand the sentence
    When Ratner's brass products mascarading as gold leave blue-green stains behind

  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,498
    edited April 11
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
    On conditions in The Mega jail in El Salvador. Prisoners are incarcerated in cells of 100-150 per cell with under 1sqm of floor space per prisoner, with steel bunks in 4 tiers, and do not get cutlery with which to eat their (inadequate) food. I think it is one toilet and two washbasins per cell. Unconvicted detainees are treated the same.

    There is no expectation of eventual release; it is a human warehouse, without humanity.

    CNN report from inside - 5 minutes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eL5Njm97U
    As related in The Gulag Archipelago, that's close to the conditions at various times in the Leninist/Stalinist terrors, and accounted to be one of the deliberate tortures of the regimes. I guess it's fine when it's a populist, born again conservative that loves crypto currency doing it.
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    The US Supreme Court has instructed the Trump administration to facilitate the return of a Maryland man who was mistakenly deported to a mega-jail in El Salvador.

    The Trump administration has conceded that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was deported due to an "administrative error", but appealed against a district court's order to "facilitate and effectuate" his return to the US.

    On Thursday, in a 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court declined to block the lower court's order.

    That order "requires the Government to 'facilitate' Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent", the justices ruled.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62gnzzeg34o

    I seem to remember reading here that SCOTUS would never oppose Trump.

    In related news, it seems that a Derbyshire man features in the US gallery of Venezuelan gangsters.

    BBC News - British man's tattoo wrongly linked to Venezuelan gang in US government document
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o
    On conditions in The Mega jail in El Salvador. Prisoners are incarcerated in cells of 100-150 per cell with under 1sqm of floor space per prisoner, with steel bunks in 4 tiers, and do not get cutlery with which to eat their (inadequate) food. I think it is one toilet and two washbasins per cell. Unconvicted detainees are treated the same.

    There is no expectation of eventual release; it is a human warehouse, without humanity.

    CNN report from inside - 5 minutes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eL5Njm97U
    Meh. Bunch of gangsters, rapists and commies. Squeeze MORE in

    Also, you’re ignoring the profound upside. From now on no one will get get tattoos, especially on the face

    This is good. Tatts are hideous
    One hopes that old men of any age wearing Goaty Beards will be next.

    Ignoring the satirical and rhetorical bits there :wink: , Trump will likely fail because he is yanking innocent people off the street and renditioning them in violation of the basic values of the US Constitution.

    If he destroys Civil Society and turns the USA into Idi Amin's Uganda it may work.

    We don't know yet.
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