I doubt this will have shifted many Labour or LD votes. Not so sure the same can be said for Tory and UKIP ones. If I were Dave I'd be ever so slightly concerned.
I believe the YouGov poll had just under half Labour supporters backing Mr Farage, and 20% of LD supporters too.
No, it said that half of Labour supporters thought Farage had won - which he, in fact, had.
OGH: "It is amongst this group where you can get the longer odds and our friend Shadsy has just tightened the 8/1 that I put £100 on in one seat to 4/1. I’m not revealing which one because I hope to get good value from other bookies."
I fancy Mike was referring here to his bet on the LibDems holding Brent Central which Ladbrokes do indeed have on offer at 4/1.
Not correct. I certainly would not bet on the LDs holding Brent Central. I'm not revealing the seat because I'm hoping to get on good money with other bookies when they quote prices.
As someone who would vote 'yes' in the September referendum if I still lived in Scotland, can the "Better Together" campaign please be led by Nick Clegg?
so why aren't you living in Scotland ? Is it a self hate thing ?
Not at all, if you don't like where you live why do you live there ? Seems daft to me.
Just cos one likes one place does not mean one has to dislike all other places.
Guilt getting to you ?
You are behaving oddly. Probably best to just ignore you today.
I doubt this will have shifted many Labour or LD votes. Not so sure the same can be said for Tory and UKIP ones. If I were Dave I'd be ever so slightly concerned.
I believe the YouGov poll had just under half Labour supporters backing Mr Farage, and 20% of LD supporters too.
And they'll remain Labour supporters. Europe just isn't a big deal for Labour like it is for the Tories.
A pathetic response, if you'll forgive the harshness of tone. Of course very few people watch such things, but by that logic, anything any politician says at almost any time is meaningless because very few people see or hear it, let alone care. Such events still have an impact as they can help shape the media narrative and people not hugely interested in politics will pick things up.
Sure, I'll forgive the tone of your first sentence - you obviously took my jokey comment seriously...
Well you know what they say, spend too much time on the internet and you lose the ability to distinguish between parody opinion and real opinion. I may need to take a break from arguing about politics for a while
The more time passes - since the debate - the more Farage is deemed the winner. This time on the Telegraph poll, Farage is now leading by 80% v Clegg's 20%.
When Omnium says "widely respected", what he actually means is "liked by his wife and mother; tolerated by his children."
I mean what I say. I'm no LD, but I can't imagine you'd find an MP that doesn't think that Clegg has delivered coalition politics in a way that will help smaller parties henceforth.
Should NPxMP read this then it'd be particularly interesting to hear his view.
I doubt this will have shifted many Labour or LD votes. Not so sure the same can be said for Tory and UKIP ones. If I were Dave I'd be ever so slightly concerned.
I believe the YouGov poll had just under half Labour supporters backing Mr Farage, and 20% of LD supporters too.
And they'll remain Labour supporters. Europe just isn't a big deal for Labour like it is for the Tories.
So Labour supporters won't be participating in the EU Parliament elections?
Well you know what they say, spend too much time on the internet and you lose the ability to distinguish between parody opinion and real opinion. I may need to take a break from arguing about politics for a while
Oh, well even my girlfriend doesn't usually get my jokes so I shouldn't expect anyone else to really either.
Tarage looked most uncomfortable when confronted with his own antics over troughing, and as soon as he entered non europe related topics entered fruitcake territory, slagging off British cars, food and gay marriage.
The poor performance of Kipper MEPs in terms of voting and sleaze should be highlighted. I find it hard to believe that Farages wife is preparing papers at midnight for Nigel, so he can not bother speaking or voting on them the next day.
As a Lib Dem supporter, I still thought Farage edged the debate. Nick Clegg started strongly, but seemed to lose a little energy as the hour wore on. He also got too bogged down in statistics.
Given the sizeable Eurosceptic vote, the 57-36 score isn't bad. I think he's capable of doing better in a week's time.
What did Farage say about British food?
He didn't slag off British cars did he? I thought he said the cars we sell to Europe cost less per car than the ones we buy from them, so they wont want to lose us as a customer.
If that's slagging them off it almost NickPalmeresque sensitivity "Don't you sling random insults at me like saying the Labour Party doesn't care about certain voters"
The winners tonight? Emmerdale and Coronation St of course. So no change there...
How many people in the UK even knew this debate was taking place - let alone were interested enough to watch it? A few thousand maybe?
Spot on.
Yet another non-event that PBers get excited about but normal people barely notice.
So what? Hardly anyone watches PMQs, or Daily Politics when you compare to the population at large, but they still make headlines and soundbites. All this was expected to do, it achieved. That normal people won't care is not even really relevant here.
The implication when people make arguments about the 'non-event' status of these things is that this is apparently a shock, as though political debates would be expected to have a direct impact on people in a major way and thus, gosh, what a let down. Of course it is non event if you assess it on those terms. Assess it on the terms of what it actually was and was intended to be - a little watched but, its participant's hope, possibly much talked about event which helps set a narrative and generates some easy headlines and soundbites - and on those terms? We shall have to wait for the full assessment, but given nearly all political events are only of interest to political wonks like ourselves, it did the job well enough
The relevance of the debate today is not the direct effect it will have on voting intention (nil) but what it reveals about the participants, their character, their arguments and their tactics, for those events the public will notice.
The winners tonight? Emmerdale and Coronation St of course. So no change there...
How many people in the UK even knew this debate was taking place - let alone were interested enough to watch it? A few thousand maybe?
Spot on.
Yet another non-event that PBers get excited about but normal people barely notice.
So what? Hardly anyone watches PMQs, or Daily Politics when you compare to the population at large, but they still make headlines and soundbites. All this was expected to do, it achieved. That normal people won't care is not even really relevant here.
The implication when people make arguments about the 'non-event' status of these things is that this is apparently a shock, as though political debates would be expected to have a direct impact on people in a major way and thus, gosh, what a let down. Of course it is non event if you assess it on those terms. Assess it on the terms of what it actually was and was intended to be - a little watched but, its participant's hope, possibly much talked about event which helps set a narrative and generates some easy headlines and soundbites - and on those terms? We shall have to wait for the full assessment, but given nearly all political events are only of interest to political wonks like ourselves, it did the job well enough
The relevance of the debate today is not the direct effect it will have on voting intention (nil) but what it reveals about the participants, their character, their arguments and their tactics, for those events the public will notice.
Tarage looked most uncomfortable when confronted with his own antics over troughing
He was surprisingly poor on that considering he has a so much ammunition like the expenses scandal and MPs 11% pay rise. He was also far too shouty when he should have known Clegg's debating style is almost always an oleagious Blair-lite tone which merely highlights anger. Yet yougov still scored Farage as the winner with 20% of lib dems saying Farage won it. If Clegg thinks he can afford to lose 20% of the ever dwindling lib dem vote then he really is trapped in a bubble.
I doubt this will have shifted many Labour or LD votes. Not so sure the same can be said for Tory and UKIP ones. If I were Dave I'd be ever so slightly concerned.
I believe the YouGov poll had just under half Labour supporters backing Mr Farage, and 20% of LD supporters too.
And they'll remain Labour supporters. Europe just isn't a big deal for Labour like it is for the Tories.
Another smug Labour supporter taking the WWC vote for granted.
I doubt this will have shifted many Labour or LD votes. Not so sure the same can be said for Tory and UKIP ones. If I were Dave I'd be ever so slightly concerned.
I believe the YouGov poll had just under half Labour supporters backing Mr Farage, and 20% of LD supporters too.
And they'll remain Labour supporters. Europe just isn't a big deal for Labour like it is for the Tories.
So Labour supporters won't be participating in the EU Parliament elections?
Traditionally they don't seem to. But if they do I doubt the EU is what will bring them out. The most motivated voters in May will be UKIPers.
By the mythical 'Alarm Clock Britain' Calamity Clegg was banging on about before that inept spin was laughed out of politics?
Clegg's an idiot. He thought yet more public exposure would somehow negate his toxicity with the voters. It hasn't and it won't. He's been doing his amusing radio phone-in for all this time in a feeble effort to repeat Blair's 'masochism' strategy. Yet he he somehow hasn't realised it didn't work for Blair or that the lib dems have been flatlining on 10% since late 2010 and show no sign whatsoever of 'surging' away from that.
Slightly harsh that 20% of LD voters think Farage won, it certainly looked like a score draw to me and most of the political press. I was surprised to see the bookies had Clegg as favourite though, can Shadsy or someone else shed some light on what caused that? Just the flow of money, or was there some evidence I got lucky and didn't notice before I bet?
Tarage looked most uncomfortable when confronted with his own antics over troughing, and as soon as he entered non europe related topics entered fruitcake territory, slagging off British cars, food and gay marriage.
The poor performance of Kipper MEPs in terms of voting and sleaze should be highlighted. I find it hard to believe that Farages wife is preparing papers at midnight for Nigel, so he can not bother speaking or voting on them the next day.
As a Lib Dem supporter, I still thought Farage edged the debate. Nick Clegg started strongly, but seemed to lose a little energy as the hour wore on. He also got too bogged down in statistics.
Given the sizeable Eurosceptic vote, the 57-36 score isn't bad. I think he's capable of doing better in a week's time.
What did Farage say about British food?
He didn't slag off British cars did he? I thought he said the cars we sell to Europe cost less per car than the ones we buy from them, so they wont want to lose us as a customer.
If that's slagging them off it almost NickPalmeresque sensitivity "Don't you sling random insults at me like saying the Labour Party doesn't care about certain voters"
I doubt this will have shifted many Labour or LD votes. Not so sure the same can be said for Tory and UKIP ones. If I were Dave I'd be ever so slightly concerned.
I believe the YouGov poll had just under half Labour supporters backing Mr Farage, and 20% of LD supporters too.
And they'll remain Labour supporters. Europe just isn't a big deal for Labour like it is for the Tories.
Another smug Labour supporter taking the WWC vote for granted.
Why shouldn't they? They may lose some points with them, but not enough to harm them before other things hurt the Tories more. (and while I may be smug, I am not a Labour supporter, for what it's worth)
As someone who would vote 'yes' in the September referendum if I still lived in Scotland, can the "Better Together" campaign please be led by Nick Clegg?
The winners tonight? Emmerdale and Coronation St of course. So no change there...
How many people in the UK even knew this debate was taking place - let alone were interested enough to watch it? A few thousand maybe?
Spot on.
Yet another non-event that PBers get excited about but normal people barely notice.
So what? Hardly anyone watches PMQs, or Daily Politics when you compare to the population at large, but they still make headlines and soundbites. All this was expected to do, it achieved. That normal people won't care is not even really relevant here.
The implication when people make arguments about the 'non-event' status of these things is that this is apparently a shock, as though political debates would be expected to have a direct impact on people in a major way and thus, gosh, what a let down. Of course it is non event if you assess it on those terms. Assess it on the terms of what it actually was and was intended to be - a little watched but, its participant's hope, possibly much talked about event which helps set a narrative and generates some easy headlines and soundbites - and on those terms? We shall have to wait for the full assessment, but given nearly all political events are only of interest to political wonks like ourselves, it did the job well enough
The relevance of the debate today is not the direct effect it will have on voting intention (nil) but what it reveals about the participants, their character, their arguments and their tactics, for those events the public will notice.
A far more succinct way of putting it. Quite so.
You think political parties get handed publicity like this on a plate for a set of May local elections and EU elections? Doesn't matter if the official tory and labour spin is it's a non-event. Fact is this and the other more high-profile BBC debate are worth far more than a 5min PPB. The papers will dine out on this for days and the boost to activists is invaluable. It doesn't need a massive audience to make a difference. It helps GOTV and even if it's just a small(ish) number of voters who might change their minds it would be remarkably complacent for any party to dismiss that golden opportunity to get their case across to the public unspun and free of charge.
Which doesn't mean it's guaranteed to help if the voter isn't impressed by that case or that leader but any party too scared to put their leader up for debate is still the clear loser since they will have no choice in the matter in 2015.
Tarage looked most uncomfortable when confronted with his own antics over troughing, and as soon as he entered non europe related topics entered fruitcake territory, slagging off British cars, food and gay marriage.
The poor performance of Kipper MEPs in terms of voting and sleaze should be highlighted. I find it hard to believe that Farages wife is preparing papers at midnight for Nigel, so he can not bother speaking or voting on them the next day.
As a Lib Dem supporter, I still thought Farage edged the debate. Nick Clegg started strongly, but seemed to lose a little energy as the hour wore on. He also got too bogged down in statistics.
Given the sizeable Eurosceptic vote, the 57-36 score isn't bad. I think he's capable of doing better in a week's time.
What did Farage say about British food?
He didn't slag off British cars did he? I thought he said the cars we sell to Europe cost less per car than the ones we buy from them, so they wont want to lose us as a customer.
If that's slagging them off it almost NickPalmeresque sensitivity "Don't you sling random insults at me like saying the Labour Party doesn't care about certain voters"
Wasn't the point that we buy more European cars than we sell to them, so Europe wouldn't just stop trading with us as we are their biggest customer?
Mrs J listened to the full hour with me. For new readers, she's a Turkish-Feminist-Pesceterian-Liberal. She slightly sided with Clegg, but got annoyed with both of them, and also thought both made good points.
That can only be seen as a win for Farage.
There that must be the ultimate decider. Mrs Jessop, who I have never met, and probably will never meet, but who is fond of cats (a point strangely missed by her husband, though he thinks her fishy foibles worth a mention), says both men made some good points. That will do for me.
Mrs. Jessop, rather like Cap'n Doc Sunil's mum and TSE's dad, is a political authority we ignore at our peril.
By the mythical 'Alarm Clock Britain' Calamity Clegg was banging on about before that inept spin was laughed out of politics?
Clegg's an idiot. He thought yet more public exposure would somehow negate his toxicity with the voters. It hasn't and it won't. He's been doing his amusing radio phone-in for all this time in a feeble effort to repeat Blair's 'masochism' strategy. Yet he he somehow hasn't realised it didn't work for Blair or that the lib dems have been flatlining on 10% since late 2010 and show no sign whatsoever of 'surging' away from that.
You're getting carried away here.
Indeed. Besides, remember that winning doesn't have to mean having over 50% of people saying he won. The LDs are polling 10% at most in EP polls, but 37% of people preferred Clegg to Farage tonight. 37% is much larger than 10%, and if any of that extra 27% liked what they saw enough to switch their votes then Clegg has already won. People said beforehand that they could both win because their aims weren't necessarily contradictory, and they were proven right.
Will be interesting to see how the second debate is different if at all. Will the two of them change tactics significantly?
OGH: "It is amongst this group where you can get the longer odds and our friend Shadsy has just tightened the 8/1 that I put £100 on in one seat to 4/1. I’m not revealing which one because I hope to get good value from other bookies."
I fancy Mike was referring here to his bet on the LibDems holding Brent Central which Ladbrokes do indeed have on offer at 4/1.
Not correct. I certainly would not bet on the LDs holding Brent Central. I'm not revealing the seat because I'm hoping to get on good money with other bookies when they quote prices.
It wouldn't be difficult to identify the seat in question surely.
The winners tonight? Emmerdale and Coronation St of course. So no change there...
How many people in the UK even knew this debate was taking place - let alone were interested enough to watch it? A few thousand maybe?
Spot on.
Yet another non-event that PBers get excited about but normal people barely notice.
So what? Hardly anyone watches PMQs, or Daily Politics when you compare to the population at large, but they still make headlines and soundbites. All this was expected to do, it achieved. That normal people won't care is not even really relevant here.
The implication when people make arguments about the 'non-event' status of these things is that this is apparently a shock, as though political debates would be expected to have a direct impact on people in a major way and thus, gosh, what a let down. Of course it is non event if you assess it on those terms. Assess it on the terms of what it actually was and was intended to be - a little watched but, its participant's hope, possibly much talked about event which helps set a narrative and generates some easy headlines and soundbites - and on those terms? We shall have to wait for the full assessment, but given nearly all political events are only of interest to political wonks like ourselves, it did the job well enough
The relevance of the debate today is not the direct effect it will have on voting intention (nil) but what it reveals about the participants, their character, their arguments and their tactics, for those events the public will notice.
A far more succinct way of putting it. Quite so.
You think political parties get handed publicity like this on a plate for a set of May local elections and EU elections? Doesn't matter if the official tory and labour spin is it's a non-event. Fact is this and the other more high-profile BBC debate are worth far more than a 5min PPB. T
I actually agree - perhaps I should amend my ageement of Mr Herdson's post in that I don't think it will have 'nil' impact directly, but very little, but that that little impact is better than nothing and better than a PPB, even if the biggest potential impact is the more indirect parts Mr Herdson suggested.
Tarage looked most uncomfortable when confronted with his own antics over troughing
He was surprisingly poor on that considering he has a so much ammunition like the expenses scandal and MPs 11% pay rise. He was also far too shouty when he should have known Clegg's debating style is almost always an oleagious Blair-lite tone which merely highlights anger. Yet yougov still scored Farage as the winner with 20% of lib dems saying Farage won it. If Clegg thinks he can afford to lose 20% of the ever dwindling lib dem vote then he really is trapped in a bubble.
Saying that you think Clegg lost a debate isn't the same as saying that you disagree with him and are going to vote for another party. If Yougov's respondents had based their answers on a transcript of what each of them said then I expect they would have sided overwhelmingly with Nick Clegg - he made the right points, just not always forcefully and clearly enough.
The one mis-step I thought he made was over tuition fees. He ducked the issue when Farage tackled his own accusation over troughing head on.
By the mythical 'Alarm Clock Britain' Calamity Clegg was banging on about before that inept spin was laughed out of politics?
Clegg's an idiot. He thought yet more public exposure would somehow negate his toxicity with the voters. It hasn't and it won't. He's been doing his amusing radio phone-in for all this time in a feeble effort to repeat Blair's 'masochism' strategy. Yet he he somehow hasn't realised it didn't work for Blair or that the lib dems have been flatlining on 10% since late 2010 and show no sign whatsoever of 'surging' away from that.
If you think Clegg is respected because of the rare occurence in FPTP where the votes fell in precisely the correct way to enable a hung parliament and coalition, and that 'history' will prove Clegg right, (like Blair is still waiting for it to) then it is you who is getting carried away.
I doubt this will have shifted many Labour or LD votes. Not so sure the same can be said for Tory and UKIP ones. If I were Dave I'd be ever so slightly concerned.
I believe the YouGov poll had just under half Labour supporters backing Mr Farage, and 20% of LD supporters too.
And they'll remain Labour supporters. Europe just isn't a big deal for Labour like it is for the Tories.
Another smug Labour supporter taking the WWC vote for granted.
We'll just have to see if I'm right. I would not describe myself as a smug Labour supporter though. I did not vote for them in 2010 and probably won't next year either.
I doubt this will have shifted many Labour or LD votes. Not so sure the same can be said for Tory and UKIP ones. If I were Dave I'd be ever so slightly concerned.
I believe the YouGov poll had just under half Labour supporters backing Mr Farage, and 20% of LD supporters too.
And they'll remain Labour supporters. Europe just isn't a big deal for Labour like it is for the Tories.
Another smug Labour supporter taking the WWC vote for granted.
We'll just have to see if I'm right. I would not describe myself as a smug Labour supporter though. I did not vote for them in 2010 and probably won't next year either.
By the mythical 'Alarm Clock Britain' Calamity Clegg was banging on about before that inept spin was laughed out of politics?
Clegg's an idiot. He thought yet more public exposure would somehow negate his toxicity with the voters. It hasn't and it won't. He's been doing his amusing radio phone-in for all this time in a feeble effort to repeat Blair's 'masochism' strategy. Yet he he somehow hasn't realised it didn't work for Blair or that the lib dems have been flatlining on 10% since late 2010 and show no sign whatsoever of 'surging' away from that.
If you think Clegg is respected because of the rare occurence in FPTP where the votes fell in precisely the correct way to enable a hung parliament and coalition, and that 'history' will prove Clegg right, (like Blair is still waiting for it to) then it is you who is getting carried away.
The LD share is very stable at ~10%. Wonder if there is any other polling period when a paty's support remains relatively unchanged for so long.
I wonder to what extent the BBC2 debate will differ from this evening's because I'm not sure what else Dimbleby can ask that hasn't already been covered. So there's bound to be a fair bit of repetition. And a bigger TV audience no doubt.
The BBC is definitely to the left of LBC. And Clegg's view on the EU chimes with the settled opinion among BBC leaders, whereas Farage's certainly doesn't. One only has to recall what Dimbleby & co did to Nick Griffin on Question TIme to see how they shaft people they disagree with.
Tarage looked most uncomfortable when confronted with his own antics over troughing
He was surprisingly poor on that considering he has a so much ammunition like the expenses scandal and MPs 11% pay rise. He was also far too shouty when he should have known Clegg's debating style is almost always an oleagious Blair-lite tone which merely highlights anger. Yet yougov still scored Farage as the winner with 20% of lib dems saying Farage won it. If Clegg thinks he can afford to lose 20% of the ever dwindling lib dem vote then he really is trapped in a bubble.
Saying that you think Clegg lost a debate isn't the same as saying that you disagree with him and are going to vote for another party. If Yougov's respondents had based their answers on a transcript of what each of them said then I expect they would have sided overwhelmingly with Nick Clegg - he made the right points, just not always forcefully and clearly enough.
The one mis-step I thought he made was over tuition fees. He ducked the issue when Farage tackled his own accusation over troughing head on.
Oh no.
A new poster who is sensible and makes sensible points.
It can't last.
re the debate - didn't watch it (catching up The Americans - class).
But can a Kipper answer me how could a supposed libertarian, individual freedom-loving party disagree with SSM?
I didn't manage to see the whole debate, but from what I saw I would give it to Farage 60-40, without being a decisive win. He could have done better on stressing two things more: (1) Europhiles making up numbers and (2) the EU claiming credit for things that happened anyway. That said, the "that's because two million have already left!" was the best moment I witnessed.
I missed what Farage said about Ukraine - more isolationist nonsense I guess?
UKIP should recover some ground with the focus on them running up to the Euros and perhaps after it. Allowing the LAB lead to recover. Hilarity will ensue.
By the mythical 'Alarm Clock Britain' Calamity Clegg was banging on about before that inept spin was laughed out of politics?
Clegg's an idiot. He thought yet more public exposure would somehow negate his toxicity with the voters. It hasn't and it won't. He's been doing his amusing radio phone-in for all this time in a feeble effort to repeat Blair's 'masochism' strategy. Yet he he somehow hasn't realised it didn't work for Blair or that the lib dems have been flatlining on 10% since late 2010 and show no sign whatsoever of 'surging' away from that.
If you think Clegg is respected because of the rare occurence in FPTP where the votes fell in precisely the correct way to enable a hung parliament and coalition, and that 'history' will prove Clegg right, (like Blair is still waiting for it to) then it is you who is getting carried away.
The LD share is very stable at ~10%. Wonder if there is any other polling period when a paty's support remains relatively unchanged for so long.
Their local election results show a steady decline. 2011: 16% 2012: 15% 2013: 13%
Read it one more time: no-one gives a Cognac XO about Europe. Really, nobody cares.
I guarantee you a very vocal and very annoyed number of tory MPs will care if the May elections are particularly dire for the tories. For that matter if little Ed thinks he can take an easy protest vote for granted then he doesn't remember what happened at the last set of May local elections where labour's VI clearly dropped.
I doubt this will have shifted many Labour or LD votes. Not so sure the same can be said for Tory and UKIP ones. If I were Dave I'd be ever so slightly concerned.
I believe the YouGov poll had just under half Labour supporters backing Mr Farage, and 20% of LD supporters too.
And they'll remain Labour supporters. Europe just isn't a big deal for Labour like it is for the Tories.
Another smug Labour supporter taking the WWC vote for granted.
We'll just have to see if I'm right. I would not describe myself as a smug Labour supporter though. I did not vote for them in 2010 and probably won't next year either.
Who will you vote for then?
UKIP!!
In all seriousness, I honestly don't know except it won't be Tory. I'd like to vote Labour, but I don't rate the Eds and I can't see any coherent set of policies. And for the first time ever my vote counts as I am in a marginal.
Miliband office: We don't object to Farage being invited to Leader's Debates /2015. "Tories are running scared and want excuse to pull out."
Clever move, should have been done earlier. For all the effort to break out to other demographics, UKIP still hit the Tories hardest and first, and they really are running scared of them, which makes them look feeble, and Labour should hit that point home hard, even if Ed M is hardly a dynamic figure (perhaps he will surprise us in the debates).
Read it one more time: no-one gives a Cognac XO about Europe. Really, nobody cares.
People do care, but it's not a priority. It's a dispassionate attitude more than anything else - most people don't really like the way Europe is run, although they tend to feel the idea of it is a good thing, but they cannot really do anything about it anyway and have more pressing concerns, so it's not worth getting worked up about.
I wonder to what extent the BBC2 debate will differ from this evening's because I'm not sure what else Dimbleby can ask that hasn't already been covered. So there's bound to be a fair bit of repetition. And a bigger TV audience no doubt.
The BBC is definitely to the left of LBC. And Clegg's view on the EU chimes with the settled opinion among BBC leaders, whereas Farage's certainly doesn't. One only has to recall what Dimbleby & co did to Nick Griffin on Question TIme to see how they shaft people they disagree with.
At least they let him on. Bizarre to see how many people thought the public were mewling kittens who would be taken in by Griffin if exposed to him, rather than thinking that, if he was as repellant as most of us believe, he would hang himself if given enough rope, metaphorically speaking, and so protested at his very inclusion.
UKIP should recover some ground with the focus on them running up to the Euros and perhaps after it. Allowing the LAB lead to recover. Hilarity will ensue.
I do enjoy a bit of UKIP surging, and not just for the falling Tory percentage. There is nothing as entertaining as a bit of baby eater on fruitcake action. Enthralling.
Tarage looked most uncomfortable when confronted with his own antics over troughing
He was surprisingly poor on that considering he has a so much ammunition like the expenses scandal and MPs 11% pay rise. He was also far too shouty when he should have known Clegg's debating style is almost always an oleagious Blair-lite tone which merely highlights anger. Yet yougov still scored Farage as the winner with 20% of lib dems saying Farage won it. If Clegg thinks he can afford to lose 20% of the ever dwindling lib dem vote then he really is trapped in a bubble.
The one mis-step I thought he made was over tuition fees. He ducked the issue when Farage tackled his own accusation over troughing head on.
Yes indeed. I only came in toward the end of the debate, so do not know how much impact the moderator had, but I was a little surprised Clegg was not called on essentially ignoring that question completely. It is one he has answered many many times before, obviously not to the satisfaction of most, but still surprising he ducked it so much. He must have his standard response memorized by now.
By the mythical 'Alarm Clock Britain' Calamity Clegg was banging on about before that inept spin was laughed out of politics?
Clegg's an idiot. He thought yet more public exposure would somehow negate his toxicity with the voters. It hasn't and it won't. He's been doing his amusing radio phone-in for all this time in a feeble effort to repeat Blair's 'masochism' strategy. Yet he he somehow hasn't realised it didn't work for Blair or that the lib dems have been flatlining on 10% since late 2010 and show no sign whatsoever of 'surging' away from that.
If you think Clegg is respected because of the rare occurence in FPTP where the votes fell in precisely the correct way to enable a hung parliament and coalition, and that 'history' will prove Clegg right, (like Blair is still waiting for it to) then it is you who is getting carried away.
The LD share is very stable at ~10%. Wonder if there is any other polling period when a paty's support remains relatively unchanged for so long.
Their local election results show a steady decline. 2011: 16% 2012: 15% 2013: 13%
Does that not depend on which seats were up for grabs though, and so where it was falling from?
UKIP should recover some ground with the focus on them running up to the Euros and perhaps after it. Allowing the LAB lead to recover. Hilarity will ensue.
I do enjoy a bit of UKIP surging, and not just for the falling Tory percentage. There is nothing as entertaining as a bit of baby eater on fruitcake action. Enthralling.
Baby eaters, fruitcakes, champagne socialists or sandal wearers. Scum, the lot of 'em.
Cameron doesn't just disagree with UKIP and Farage, he doesn't respect them, which is why he doesn't want to debate with them.
He had little to gain and a lot to lose by debating with them, I doubt respect came into the equation. If the reverse were true, he could still have zero respect for them but he would definitely have become involved.
By the mythical 'Alarm Clock Britain' Calamity Clegg was banging on about before that inept spin was laughed out of politics?
Clegg's an idiot. He thought yet more public exposure would somehow negate his toxicity with the voters. It hasn't and it won't. He's been doing his amusing radio phone-in for all this time in a feeble effort to repeat Blair's 'masochism' strategy. Yet he he somehow hasn't realised it didn't work for Blair or that the lib dems have been flatlining on 10% since late 2010 and show no sign whatsoever of 'surging' away from that.
If you think Clegg is respected because of the rare occurence in FPTP where the votes fell in precisely the correct way to enable a hung parliament and coalition, and that 'history' will prove Clegg right, (like Blair is still waiting for it to) then it is you who is getting carried away.
The LD share is very stable at ~10%. Wonder if there is any other polling period when a paty's support remains relatively unchanged for so long.
Their local election results show a steady decline. 2011: 16% 2012: 15% 2013: 13%
Does that not depend on which seats were up for grabs though, and so where it was falling from?
Those are National Equivalent Vote numbers, so that shouldn't be a factor.
UKIP should recover some ground with the focus on them running up to the Euros and perhaps after it. Allowing the LAB lead to recover. Hilarity will ensue.
I do enjoy a bit of UKIP surging, and not just for the falling Tory percentage. There is nothing as entertaining as a bit of baby eater on fruitcake action. Enthralling.
Baby eaters, fruitcakes, champagne socialists or sandal wearers. Scum, the lot of 'em.
Is that you not wanting to start from here again, TFS?
re the debate - didn't watch it (catching up The Americans - class).
But can a Kipper answer me how could a supposed libertarian, individual freedom-loving party disagree with SSM?
I'm a lurker, and not a Kipper.
I listened carefully to that bit about SSM. I may be wrong, but my understanding of what Farage said was that (to paraphrase) he would support SSM but not with the current situation where the ECHR could override the lock preventing certain religious institutions from having to officiate. That may appear to be a tricky one to explain, but it fits a libertarian position of trying to balance freedoms.
Labour's strategy should be to force Europe on to the agenda at every opportunity, and clearly Nige should be allowed to debate as he has a higher poll score than the Liberals. The great thing about Europe is that while very few people care, those that do tear strips off each other. As the chances of us leaving the EU are absolute zero it all makes for great entertainment.
P.S. Need Ukip to get a boost as the two to three points the Tories have pinched off you guys are vexing.
UKIP should recover some ground with the focus on them running up to the Euros and perhaps after it. Allowing the LAB lead to recover. Hilarity will ensue.
I do enjoy a bit of UKIP surging, and not just for the falling Tory percentage. There is nothing as entertaining as a bit of baby eater on fruitcake action. Enthralling.
Baby eaters, fruitcakes, champagne socialists or sandal wearers. Scum, the lot of 'em.
UKIP should recover some ground with the focus on them running up to the Euros and perhaps after it. Allowing the LAB lead to recover. Hilarity will ensue.
It's true the Labour score has barely budged for months on end, possibly a point or so. The issue is that the Tories have pinched two points from the Tories since the budget. C'mon Nige!
re the debate - didn't watch it (catching up The Americans - class).
But can a Kipper answer me how could a supposed libertarian, individual freedom-loving party disagree with SSM?
I'm a lurker, and not a Kipper.
I listened carefully to that bit about SSM. I may be wrong, but my understanding of what Farage said was that (to paraphrase) he would support SSM but not with the current situation where the ECHR could override the lock preventing certain religious institutions from having to officiate. That may appear to be a tricky one to explain, but it fits a libertarian position of trying to balance freedoms.
Ah thanks.
I didn't hear it but if that was his thrust (!) it sounds like Farage (and he is by no means the only one) has misunderstood the quadruple lock.
Tarage looked most uncomfortable when confronted with his own antics over troughing
He was surprisingly poor on that considering he has a so much ammunition like the expenses scandal and MPs 11% pay rise. He was also far too shouty when he should have known Clegg's debating style is almost always an oleagious Blair-lite tone which merely highlights anger. Yet yougov still scored Farage as the winner with 20% of lib dems saying Farage won it. If Clegg thinks he can afford to lose 20% of the ever dwindling lib dem vote then he really is trapped in a bubble.
Saying that you think Clegg lost a debate isn't the same as saying that you disagree with him and are going to vote for another party.
It's not a good sign for Clegg's IN or OUT master strategy though, is it? It certainly can't be spun as a victory for that strategy.
>If Yougov's respondents had based their answers on a transcript of what each of them said then I expect they would have sided overwhelmingly with Nick Clegg - he made the right points, just not always forcefully and clearly enough.
Farage was the one who was the more shouty, less polished and came across far less affable and 'voter friendly' than he has in the past. Though if you actually mean if someone less toxic than Nick Clegg made the points and the voter didn't know then I agree with you.
The one mis-step I thought he made was over tuition fees. He ducked the issue when Farage tackled his own accusation over troughing head on.
That wasn't a mere mis-step, that a harbinger of just how bad things are going to get for Clegg since it is inconceivable that the 2015 debates are going to do anything other than focus like a laser on what the leaders promise for the future and what they have already done in government/opposition. Clegg will be asked to promise, rule out or red line any given policy because of that and in the end he's going to have to ask the voter to trust him on them all. If Clegg can't convince on a subject like the EU then his spinners are in for quite a shock come 2015.
I wonder to what extent the BBC2 debate will differ from this evening's because I'm not sure what else Dimbleby can ask that hasn't already been covered. So there's bound to be a fair bit of repetition. And a bigger TV audience no doubt.
The BBC is definitely to the left of LBC. And Clegg's view on the EU chimes with the settled opinion among BBC leaders, whereas Farage's certainly doesn't. One only has to recall what Dimbleby & co did to Nick Griffin on Question TIme to see how they shaft people they disagree with.
At least they let him on. Bizarre to see how many people thought the public were mewling kittens who would be taken in by Griffin if exposed to him, rather than thinking that, if he was as repellant as most of us believe, he would hang himself if given enough rope, metaphorically speaking, and so protested at his very inclusion.
I agree, in that they queered the pitch by altering the format of the show to create an inquisition. Because they did that, people can say it was biased and that the outcome therefore means less. The BBC ought to have run with the normal format of asking the same question of all members of the panel before going on to the next question. It was a bad call by the BBC, especially since they had actively sought to scandalise him for his Keighley comments regarding racist drug rapes, which of course were later found to be the tip of an iceberg that the BBC had merrily ignored.
Just seen the draw on the Death Match - Russia =Nick Palmer and Turkey = Andy Cooke. The Gods truly have a sense of humour. That stab, when it comes, is likely to be awesome. I just wish there were a way of legitimately betting on Diplomacy.
For those interested the full line-up is:
Russia - Nick Palmer Turkey - Andy "the Stiletto" Cooke Italy - Doctor "I want to be reasonable" FoxInSox England - Freggles Germany - Corporal France - Pulpstar Austria - Uncle "Why do I always get bloody Austria" Monty
As a reminder, there is no alliance win in this game so even if Russia and Turkey team up for the old-fashioned juggernaut (seldom seen nowadays but still potentially potent) one must stab the other before the end.
UKIP should recover some ground with the focus on them running up to the Euros and perhaps after it. Allowing the LAB lead to recover. Hilarity will ensue.
I do enjoy a bit of UKIP surging, and not just for the falling Tory percentage. There is nothing as entertaining as a bit of baby eater on fruitcake action. Enthralling.
Baby eaters, fruitcakes, champagne socialists or sandal wearers. Scum, the lot of 'em.
Champers.....nah, it's overpriced piss.
I think the fruitcakes bit is for labour loyalist ;-)
re the debate - didn't watch it (catching up The Americans - class).
But can a Kipper answer me how could a supposed libertarian, individual freedom-loving party disagree with SSM?
I'm a lurker, and not a Kipper.
I listened carefully to that bit about SSM. I may be wrong, but my understanding of what Farage said was that (to paraphrase) he would support SSM but not with the current situation where the ECHR could override the lock preventing certain religious institutions from having to officiate. That may appear to be a tricky one to explain, but it fits a libertarian position of trying to balance freedoms.
oh and as it appears that you have all the trappings of being another sensible poster, please de-lurk on a more permanent basis!
Mrs J listened to the full hour with me. For new readers, she's a Turkish-Feminist-Pesceterian-Liberal. She slightly sided with Clegg, but got annoyed with both of them, and also thought both made good points.
That can only be seen as a win for Farage.
There that must be the ultimate decider. Mrs Jessop, who I have never met, and probably will never meet, but who is fond of cats (a point strangely missed by her husband, though he thinks her fishy foibles worth a mention), says both men made some good points. That will do for me.
Mrs. Jessop, rather like Cap'n Doc Sunil's mum and TSE's dad, is a political authority we ignore at our peril.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure you're being a 100% serious with that. ;-)
I was expecting her to be sticking pins into a voodoo Farage doll by the end. But she wasn't. And although she still sided (just) with Clegg, the fact she agreed with Farage and disagreed with Clegg on several points has, from my interrogationquestioning of her, made her view Farage, if not UKIP, slightly more favourably than was the case before. And as I said, that can only be a win for Farage.
I find it superb having an intelligent, witty and gorgeous partner who has different political views from me. She challenges my views on things. And goodness knows, they need challenging. Is there anything worse than a life partner you agree with on everything?
If you are ever lucky enough to find yourself in that last bastion of western civilisation, Cambridge, let me know. In fact, that stands for any PBer. I'll then know to avoid you invite you all out for a drink. I promise I'll not mention HS2. Much.
re the debate - didn't watch it (catching up The Americans - class).
But can a Kipper answer me how could a supposed libertarian, individual freedom-loving party disagree with SSM?
I'm a lurker, and not a Kipper.
I listened carefully to that bit about SSM. I may be wrong, but my understanding of what Farage said was that (to paraphrase) he would support SSM but not with the current situation where the ECHR could override the lock preventing certain religious institutions from having to officiate. That may appear to be a tricky one to explain, but it fits a libertarian position of trying to balance freedoms.
oh and as it appears that you have all the trappings of being another sensible poster, please de-lurk on a more permanent basis!
Hear hear for more sense all around.
But not too much, we don't want to get carried away.
If you think Clegg is respected because of the rare occurence in FPTP where the votes fell in precisely the correct way to enable a hung parliament and coalition, and that 'history' will prove Clegg right, (like Blair is still waiting for it to) then it is you who is getting carried away.
No, he is respected because he has done something unique and difficult in British politics.
UKIP should recover some ground with the focus on them running up to the Euros and perhaps after it. Allowing the LAB lead to recover. Hilarity will ensue.
I do enjoy a bit of UKIP surging, and not just for the falling Tory percentage. There is nothing as entertaining as a bit of baby eater on fruitcake action. Enthralling.
Baby eaters, fruitcakes, champagne socialists or sandal wearers. Scum, the lot of 'em.
UKIP should recover some ground with the focus on them running up to the Euros and perhaps after it. Allowing the LAB lead to recover. Hilarity will ensue.
I do enjoy a bit of UKIP surging, and not just for the falling Tory percentage. There is nothing as entertaining as a bit of baby eater on fruitcake action. Enthralling.
Baby eaters, fruitcakes, champagne socialists or sandal wearers. Scum, the lot of 'em.
Just seen the draw on the Death Match - Russia =Nick Palmer and Turkey = Andy Cooke. The Gods truly have a sense of humour. That stab, when it comes, is likely to be awesome. I just wish there were a way of legitimately betting on Diplomacy.
For those interested the full line-up is:
Russia - Nick Palmer Turkey - Andy "the Stiletto" Cooke Italy - Doctor "I want to be reasonable" FoxInSox England - Freggles Germany - Corporal France - Pulpstar Austria - Uncle "Why do I always get bloody Austria" Monty
As a reminder, there is no alliance win in this game so even if Russia and Turkey team up for the old-fashioned juggernaut (seldom seen nowadays but still potentially potent) one must stab the other before the end.
Keep an eye on Italy is my advice for this one.
Corporal? Do you seek to subtly demote me? Or hint at my napoleonic prowess?
Tarage looked most uncomfortable when confronted with his own antics over troughing
He was surprisingly poor on that considering he has a so much ammunition like the expenses scandal and MPs 11% pay rise. He was also far too shouty when he should have known Clegg's debating style is almost always an oleagious Blair-lite tone which merely highlights anger. Yet yougov still scored Farage as the winner with 20% of lib dems saying Farage won it. If Clegg thinks he can afford to lose 20% of the ever dwindling lib dem vote then he really is trapped in a bubble.
Saying that you think Clegg lost a debate isn't the same as saying that you disagree with him and are going to vote for another party.
It's not a good sign for Clegg's IN or OUT master strategy though, is it? It certainly can't be spun as a victory for that strategy.
>If Yougov's respondents had based their answers on a transcript of what each of them said then I expect they would have sided overwhelmingly with Nick Clegg - he made the right points, just not always forcefully and clearly enough.
Farage was the one who was the more shouty, less polished and came across far less affable and 'voter friendly' than he has in the past. Though if you actually mean if someone less toxic than Nick Clegg made the points and the voter didn't know then I agree with you.
The one mis-step I thought he made was over tuition fees. He ducked the issue when Farage tackled his own accusation over troughing head on.
That wasn't a mere mis-step, that a harbinger of just how bad things are going to get for Clegg since it is inconceivable that the 2015 debates are going to do anything other than focus like a laser on what the leaders promise for the future and what they have already done in government/opposition. Clegg will be asked to promise, rule out or red line any given policy because of that and in the end he's going to have to ask the voter to trust him on them all. If Clegg can't convince on a subject like the EU then his spinners are in for quite a shock come 2015.
Given that he has so far to fall from the heights of 2010 debates, and "Tuition Fees" will be repeated non stop to him whenever he accuses another leader of reneging on anything, wouldn't it be better for Clegg to duck the 2015 debates and hope to be like a player whose standing improves when theyre out of the team?
Just seen the draw on the Death Match - Russia =Nick Palmer and Turkey = Andy Cooke. The Gods truly have a sense of humour. That stab, when it comes, is likely to be awesome. I just wish there were a way of legitimately betting on Diplomacy.
For those interested the full line-up is:
Russia - Nick Palmer Turkey - Andy "the Stiletto" Cooke Italy - Doctor "I want to be reasonable" FoxInSox England - Freggles Germany - Corporal France - Pulpstar Austria - Uncle "Why do I always get bloody Austria" Monty
As a reminder, there is no alliance win in this game so even if Russia and Turkey team up for the old-fashioned juggernaut (seldom seen nowadays but still potentially potent) one must stab the other before the end.
Keep an eye on Italy is my advice for this one.
Corporal? Do you seek to subtly demote me? Or hint at my napoleonic prowess?
How does one spectate, this sounds like it could be interesting.
Just seen the draw on the Death Match - Russia =Nick Palmer and Turkey = Andy Cooke. The Gods truly have a sense of humour. That stab, when it comes, is likely to be awesome. I just wish there were a way of legitimately betting on Diplomacy.
For those interested the full line-up is:
Russia - Nick Palmer Turkey - Andy "the Stiletto" Cooke Italy - Doctor "I want to be reasonable" FoxInSox England - Freggles Germany - Corporal France - Pulpstar Austria - Uncle "Why do I always get bloody Austria" Monty
As a reminder, there is no alliance win in this game so even if Russia and Turkey team up for the old-fashioned juggernaut (seldom seen nowadays but still potentially potent) one must stab the other before the end.
Keep an eye on Italy is my advice for this one.
Corporal? Do you seek to subtly demote me? Or hint at my napoleonic prowess?
If you think Clegg is respected because of the rare occurence in FPTP where the votes fell in precisely the correct way to enable a hung parliament and coalition, and that 'history' will prove Clegg right, (like Blair is still waiting for it to) then it is you who is getting carried away.
No, he is respected because he has done something unique and difficult in British politics.
The lib dems were in coalition with labour twice in the scottish parliament yet their base wasn't smashed to pieces and they weren't made a political irrelevance because of that. Clegg saying Yes to a nice ministerial car and goodbye to lib dem principles has.
It's not for nothing that the lib dems are flatlining at 10% with their local election results growing steadily worse. Complain about the voter and public being wrong all you like but you'd best explain just how much 'good' Clegg has done for the causes of fairer votes, Lords Reform and civil liberties before you shower him with praise and respect that only you seem to be able to discern.
Sun hinting one debate participant put 12% on their personal ratings after tonight....
Hmm. Well Clegg's are starting from a lower ebb, and even for those who follow politics it will have been possibly the longest bit of footage of him taking the fight to someone else and smoothly performing (can be a downside as well, but it doesn't have the same sameness drawback it has when going against other politicians with the same coached, polished style, as Farage uses a different style) they will have seen in a long time, so probably his, but I guess we cannot rule out Farage managing it on the back of finally getting to personally rebuff one of the 'establishment'.
If Clegg can sustain a recovery in his personal ratings from 'oh god no' all the way up to 'oh god no...well could be worse' that would be an amazing result for him. I can't see it shifting the LD vote any, but maybe it will fool them into thinking they don't need to get him to stand down before 2015 as I have supposed was the plan for years.
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure you're being a 100% serious with that"
I most certainly was. Mrs Jessop is not, as far as you have disclosed, a political anorak and is, again as far as you have disclosed, a free thinker. Therefore, like Cap'n Docs mum and TSE's dad, she is worth listening too when it comes to politics - more than some people on this site that's for sure.
" I promise I'll not mention HS2. Much."
Ah, well stuff it then. I am due to be in your neck of the woods in early May and was going to suggest meeting up for a glass or two but if you won't want to talk engineering projects I guess I'll be able to find a HR manager to drink with or a newly painted wall to watch dry.
If you think Clegg is respected because of the rare occurence in FPTP where the votes fell in precisely the correct way to enable a hung parliament and coalition, and that 'history' will prove Clegg right, (like Blair is still waiting for it to) then it is you who is getting carried away.
No, he is respected because he has done something unique and difficult in British politics.
The lib dems were in coalition with labour twice in the scottish parliament yet their base wasn't smashed to pieces and they weren't made a political irrelevance because of that. Clegg saying Yes to a nice ministerial car and goodbye to lib dem principles has.
It's not for nothing that the lib dems are flatlining at 10% with their local election results growing steadily worse. Complain about the voter and public being wrong all you like but you'd best explain just how much 'good' Clegg has done for the causes of fairer votes, Lords Reform and civil liberties before you shower him with praise and respect that only you seem to be able to discern.
I thought the LDs were doing terribly in Scotland? Or is it a different situation for Westminster and Holyrood?
Just read what Farage said about Ukraine. Imbecilic madness. He might have lost my vote over that.
Nope, he was absolutely right on the Ukraine. The EU poked and poked and poked and then stood there with surprised looks on their faces when Russia poked back.
Forget your opinion of Farage, my opinion of you has plummeted over the Ukraine issue.
If you think Clegg is respected because of the rare occurence in FPTP where the votes fell in precisely the correct way to enable a hung parliament and coalition, and that 'history' will prove Clegg right, (like Blair is still waiting for it to) then it is you who is getting carried away.
No, he is respected because he has done something unique and difficult in British politics.
The lib dems were in coalition with labour twice in the scottish parliament yet their base wasn't smashed to pieces and they weren't made a political irrelevance because of that. Clegg saying Yes to a nice ministerial car and goodbye to lib dem principles has.
It's not for nothing that the lib dems are flatlining at 10% with their local election results growing steadily worse. Complain about the voter and public being wrong all you like but you'd best explain just how much 'good' Clegg has done for the causes of fairer votes, Lords Reform and civil liberties before you shower him with praise and respect that only you seem to be able to discern.
I thought the LDs were doing terribly in Scotland? Or is it a different situation for Westminster and Holyrood?
I said "were" in coalition with labour. They weren't all that impressive but they certainly weren't all but wiped out because of that coalition. Now they have zero chance of a coalition with a taxi full of MSPs and quite a few of their scottish MPs should be very nervous.
Comments
Should NPxMP read this then it'd be particularly interesting to hear his view.
He didn't slag off British cars did he? I thought he said the cars we sell to Europe cost less per car than the ones we buy from them, so they wont want to lose us as a customer.
If that's slagging them off it almost NickPalmeresque sensitivity "Don't you sling random insults at me like saying the Labour Party doesn't care about certain voters"
(Only one UKIP spokesman I saw. No Labour MPs.)
He didn't slag off British cars did he? I thought he said the cars we sell to Europe cost less per car than the ones we buy from them, so they wont want to lose us as a customer.
If that's slagging them off it almost NickPalmeresque sensitivity "Don't you sling random insults at me like saying the Labour Party doesn't care about certain voters"
Which doesn't mean it's guaranteed to help if the voter isn't impressed by that case or that leader but any party too scared to put their leader up for debate is still the clear loser since they will have no choice in the matter in 2015.
Wasn't the point that we buy more European cars than we sell to them, so Europe wouldn't just stop trading with us as we are their biggest customer?
Mrs. Jessop, rather like Cap'n Doc Sunil's mum and TSE's dad, is a political authority we ignore at our peril.
Will be interesting to see how the second debate is different if at all. Will the two of them change tactics significantly?
A lot of traditional LD voters are to be found in the south west where Euroscepticism is very strong.
The one mis-step I thought he made was over tuition fees. He ducked the issue when Farage tackled his own accusation over troughing head on.
See for yourself.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png
If you think Clegg is respected because of the rare occurence in FPTP where the votes fell in precisely the correct way to enable a hung parliament and coalition, and that 'history' will prove Clegg right, (like Blair is still waiting for it to) then it is you who is getting carried away.
The BBC is definitely to the left of LBC. And Clegg's view on the EU chimes with the settled opinion among BBC leaders, whereas Farage's certainly doesn't. One only has to recall what Dimbleby & co did to Nick Griffin on Question TIme to see how they shaft people they disagree with.
Really, nobody cares.
A new poster who is sensible and makes sensible points.
It can't last.
re the debate - didn't watch it (catching up The Americans - class).
But can a Kipper answer me how could a supposed libertarian, individual freedom-loving party disagree with SSM?
I missed what Farage said about Ukraine - more isolationist nonsense I guess?
Basil cannot believe it : http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5537/11712873134_2c1eca7282_n.jpg
Miliband office: We don't object to Farage being invited to Leader's Debates /2015. "Tories are running scared and want excuse to pull out."
Labour have definitely slid back a bit
Nigel Farage shows David Cameron how he might lose by standing on the sidelines http://tgr.ph/1jLdLL7
2011: 16%
2012: 15%
2013: 13%
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png
In all seriousness, I honestly don't know except it won't be Tory. I'd like to vote Labour, but I don't rate the Eds and I can't see any coherent set of policies. And for the first time ever my vote counts as I am in a marginal.
32% Labour
21% Conservative
10% UKIP
9% Lib Dem
4% Green
1% Independent
21% Undecided
http://survation.com/2014/03/survation-polling-of-london-residents-on-behalf-of-the-london-child-poverty-alliance/
If you Labourites carry on with this attitude you could be in for a surprise.
I listened carefully to that bit about SSM. I may be wrong, but my understanding of what Farage said was that (to paraphrase) he would support SSM but not with the current situation where the ECHR could override the lock preventing certain religious institutions from having to officiate. That may appear to be a tricky one to explain, but it fits a libertarian position of trying to balance freedoms.
Labour's strategy should be to force Europe on to the agenda at every opportunity, and clearly Nige should be allowed to debate as he has a higher poll score than the Liberals. The great thing about Europe is that while very few people care, those that do tear strips off each other. As the chances of us leaving the EU are absolute zero it all makes for great entertainment.
P.S. Need Ukip to get a boost as the two to three points the Tories have pinched off you guys are vexing.
I didn't hear it but if that was his thrust (!) it sounds like Farage (and he is by no means the only one) has misunderstood the quadruple lock.
Just seen the draw on the Death Match - Russia =Nick Palmer and Turkey = Andy Cooke. The Gods truly have a sense of humour. That stab, when it comes, is likely to be awesome. I just wish there were a way of legitimately betting on Diplomacy.
For those interested the full line-up is:
Russia - Nick Palmer
Turkey - Andy "the Stiletto" Cooke
Italy - Doctor "I want to be reasonable" FoxInSox
England - Freggles
Germany - Corporal
France - Pulpstar
Austria - Uncle "Why do I always get bloody Austria" Monty
As a reminder, there is no alliance win in this game so even if Russia and Turkey team up for the old-fashioned juggernaut (seldom seen nowadays but still potentially potent) one must stab the other before the end.
Keep an eye on Italy is my advice for this one.
I was expecting her to be sticking pins into a voodoo Farage doll by the end. But she wasn't. And although she still sided (just) with Clegg, the fact she agreed with Farage and disagreed with Clegg on several points has, from my interrogationquestioning of her, made her view Farage, if not UKIP, slightly more favourably than was the case before. And as I said, that can only be a win for Farage.
I find it superb having an intelligent, witty and gorgeous partner who has different political views from me. She challenges my views on things. And goodness knows, they need challenging. Is there anything worse than a life partner you agree with on everything?
If you are ever lucky enough to find yourself in that last bastion of western civilisation, Cambridge, let me know. In fact, that stands for any PBer. I'll then know to avoid you invite you all out for a drink. I promise I'll not mention HS2. Much.
But beware: I'm a pleb. ;-)
But not too much, we don't want to get carried away.
Well not Bohemian Rhapsody ;-)
Clegg saying Yes to a nice ministerial car and goodbye to lib dem principles has.
It's not for nothing that the lib dems are flatlining at 10% with their local election results growing steadily worse. Complain about the voter and public being wrong all you like but you'd best explain just how much 'good' Clegg has done for the causes of fairer votes, Lords Reform and civil liberties before you shower him with praise and respect that only you seem to be able to discern.
Tough... here it is anyway
I'm no longer down £5k, not even £4k - no, I'm now a mere £1.6k in the red at cob today.
A deficit reduction rate that Ed Balls can only dream of....
If Clegg can sustain a recovery in his personal ratings from 'oh god no' all the way up to 'oh god no...well could be worse' that would be an amazing result for him. I can't see it shifting the LD vote any, but maybe it will fool them into thinking they don't need to get him to stand down before 2015 as I have supposed was the plan for years.
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure you're being a 100% serious with that"
I most certainly was. Mrs Jessop is not, as far as you have disclosed, a political anorak and is, again as far as you have disclosed, a free thinker. Therefore, like Cap'n Docs mum and TSE's dad, she is worth listening too when it comes to politics - more than some people on this site that's for sure.
" I promise I'll not mention HS2. Much."
Ah, well stuff it then. I am due to be in your neck of the woods in early May and was going to suggest meeting up for a glass or two but if you won't want to talk engineering projects I guess I'll be able to find a HR manager to drink with or a newly painted wall to watch dry.
Forget your opinion of Farage, my opinion of you has plummeted over the Ukraine issue.
1%, 2% , 3%, 2% today leads..... Fair to say a small budget bounce in play?
Will Faragasm make a showing?
I said "were" in coalition with labour. They weren't all that impressive but they certainly weren't all but wiped out because of that coalition. Now they have zero chance of a coalition with a taxi full of MSPs and quite a few of their scottish MPs should be very nervous.