Reshuffle talk is in the air but Reeves is safe but not Phillipson – politicalbetting.com
It is no surprise that Bridget Phillipson and Lord Hermer are llkely to be moved on, the latter for her poor handling of the inevitable consequences of adding VAT to private school fees mid academic year and other assorted problems at the DfE.
That 6 months with a total of 0.1%. Imagine if the government hadn't been trying.
Given I presume population growth is still going gangbusters, per capita GDP not looking good.
The ONS think Labour will more than halve population growth, from 1.3% in 2023 to 0.5% in 2028. We would need at least 1.0% growth in 2025 to achieve GDP per capita growth this year.
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
I blame the fools with Trump derangement syndrome, who told everyone not to worry, it's not going to be a total shitshow for everyone bar Trump and his cronies.
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
I posted on last thread something about the sheer scale of what Europe has on its plate just as you ended the thread (I’m trying not to take it personally) that was highlighted this morning that I will repost below.
Good interview with General Wesley Clark this morning in the World Service. Clearly agitated about the current US direction re Ukraine. Made the key point that he thinks it would need a peacekeeping force of 150,000 to be effective which requires 500,000 “men at arms” and that Europe just doesn’t have that capacity.
Bear in mind that “Europe” also needs to deploy troops in the arctic north down through the Baltic, Poland etc its even more impossible.
It raises questions about whether EU should be courting Turkey and ignoring concerns about Erdogan - if of course it’s not too late and Turkey are so over them now. Turkey has a huge military and could make it work with the EU.
Maybe China should step up on the world stage and provide a huge number of men for a peacekeeping force - in their interests as they can start flexing and being the new global policeman and get kudos - also no way Russia are going to risk shooting Chinese troops. Maybe offer them the resources in Ukraine instead of the US.
But the fact that the whole of Europe can no longer 500,000 quality troops to provide rotating 150,000 shows how complacent the continent (and us) has become.
Pushback against Hegseth and Chump on Ukraine from John Healey The Defence Secretary and the Secretary General of NATO, which is positive news. I'll be interested to see what James Cartlidge (Shad Def Sec) and whoever is Reform's Defence Spokesperson have to say on this.
Defence Secretary John Healey says there will be no talks about Ukraine without Ukraine involved
Healey adds the UK remains committed to ensuring Kyiv is in the strongest negotiating and fighting position as he says "durable peace" remains the goal
Nato Secretary-General Mark Rutte says any peace agreement reached must ensure Russia will make no further attempts to annexe Ukrainian land in the future
The comments come after Donald Trump said he and Vladimir Putin had agreed to start negotiations on ending the war "immediately"
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
Yes it is and it was clear this would happen. The Trumpdozer feels that Europe has had a free ride off the US for too long and has wanted Europe to pay its way. He is simply forcing their hand.
On this I think he is correct.
We need to take our defence seriously and stop relying on the US.
That 6 months with a total of 0.1%. Imagine if the government hadn't been trying.
Given I presume population growth is still going gangbusters, per capita GDP not looking good.
Yes. 0.1% means we got poorer AGAIN
Voting for a Labour government is like having a baby?
AmIRight?
Do you mean that you wail that it was a moments indiscretion in a darkened ballot box, that you were deceived and it's not what you wanted? Think you're talking about some specific individuals' experiences there.
For others, fully engaged in the parenting, it's what was planned, just have to grit the teeth and wait hopefully for the influence of the NCT to fade ...
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
Capital Economics says that business investment dropped by 3.2% between October (when the Budget was announced) and December. Meanwhile, a dip in employment contributed to flat consumer spending. In fact, it says, the only areas of growth were government spending and consumption.
But we also got monthly data this morning, and that shows the UK economy grew by 0.4% in December alone, surpassing pretty poor figures in the previous couple of months.
If we’re all aboard the reshuffle train already, that’s a bad sign.
Ironically though, isn’t the one who is the safest the one who is the biggest problem - Reeves?
Yes and no, both Thatcher and Blair held annual reshuffles, Dave (pbuh) went for every 2 years or so, rightly thinking ministers need time to get their feet under the desks.
"Nandy can't be relied on to turn up ..." Sounds like a euphemism for a deep seated health problem.
Could be many things. Her health, her children’s’ health, laziness, refuses to go to southern poncey culture stuff, hits the wine at 11am, can’t work out how to use the ministerial car service or just bitching from other Labour MPs.
At least with Bridget we know it’s because she’s just useless and puts ideology over sense.
If we’re all aboard the reshuffle train already, that’s a bad sign.
Ironically though, isn’t the one who is the safest the one who is the biggest problem - Reeves?
Yes and no, both Thatcher and Blair held annual reshuffles, Dave (pbuh) went for every 2 years or so, rightly thinking ministers need time to get their feet under the desks.
Of the "proper" jobs, Cameron didn't voluntarily reshuffle anybody other than Gove did he? Partly because of Coalition politics, but also a feeling that leaving people in position was a much better idea than yearly chopping and changing.
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
If we’re all aboard the reshuffle train already, that’s a bad sign.
Ironically though, isn’t the one who is the safest the one who is the biggest problem - Reeves?
Yes and no, both Thatcher and Blair held annual reshuffles, Dave (pbuh) went for every 2 years or so, rightly thinking ministers need time to get their feet under the desks.
Of the "proper" jobs, Cameron didn't voluntarily reshuffle anybody other than Gove did he?
Lansley he did, but other than resignations/retirements, he avoided them.
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
Reminding us this is exactly what Trump did when he negotiated the withdrawal from Afghanistan.
That’s a bit pessimistic. We could probably give Putin the Baltic states, buying us precious time to import 47m more people from MENA/Africa/South Asia who have no respect for our culture and no intention of fighting for it
If we’re all aboard the reshuffle train already, that’s a bad sign.
Ironically though, isn’t the one who is the safest the one who is the biggest problem - Reeves?
Yes and no, both Thatcher and Blair held annual reshuffles, Dave (pbuh) went for every 2 years or so, rightly thinking ministers need time to get their feet under the desks.
Of the "proper" jobs, Cameron didn't voluntarily reshuffle anybody other than Gove did he?
Lansley he did, but other than resignations, he avoided them.
Oh yes you are right. Gove actually only went after 4 years, it was Lansley that went after 2.
If we’re all aboard the reshuffle train already, that’s a bad sign.
Ironically though, isn’t the one who is the safest the one who is the biggest problem - Reeves?
Yes and no, both Thatcher and Blair held annual reshuffles, Dave (pbuh) went for every 2 years or so, rightly thinking ministers need time to get their feet under the desks.
Of the "proper" jobs, Cameron didn't voluntarily reshuffle anybody other than Gove did he?
Lansley he did, but other than resignations, he avoided them.
Oh yes you are right. Gove actually only went after 4 years, it was Lansley that went after 2.
I see Reform are coming after my storage battery and the reactionaries who watch GB News are supporting it.
I guess they really are Luddites.
What they should go after, are the companies who are actually selling lethally dangerous batteries. Mostly for e-bikes.
The manufacturers are Chinese companies beyond UK reach. The problem is the online marketplaces where there is a lack of control on the small retailers fronting these companies and selling non-compliant electrical goods. I can't see this being a good move for Reform, the most avid adopters of home batteries I've met are older mortgage-free Reform adjacent peeps. In any case, these will have had to be installed by a qualified electrician and compliant with electrical regs. Assuming their objection is the dangers posed?
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
Reminding us this is exactly what Trump did when he negotiated the withdrawal from Afghanistan.
That’s a bit pessimistic. We could probably give Putin the Baltic states, buying us precious time to import 47m more people from MENA/Africa/South Asia who have no respect for our culture and no intention of fighting for it
I see Reform are coming after my storage battery and the reactionaries who watch GB News are supporting it.
I guess they really are Luddites.
What they should go after, are the companies who are actually selling lethally dangerous batteries. Mostly for e-bikes.
And of course they love to sell bikes that on the face of it adhere to the law, but snipping one cable and you get a 40mph+ electronic motorbike with crazy acceleration (perfect for get away from nicking phones).
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
I posted on last thread something about the sheer scale of what Europe has on its plate just as you ended the thread (I’m trying not to take it personally) that was highlighted this morning that I will repost below.
Good interview with General Wesley Clark this morning in the World Service. Clearly agitated about the current US direction re Ukraine. Made the key point that he thinks it would need a peacekeeping force of 150,000 to be effective which requires 500,000 “men at arms” and that Europe just doesn’t have that capacity.
Bear in mind that “Europe” also needs to deploy troops in the arctic north down through the Baltic, Poland etc its even more impossible.
It raises questions about whether EU should be courting Turkey and ignoring concerns about Erdogan - if of course it’s not too late and Turkey are so over them now. Turkey has a huge military and could make it work with the EU.
Maybe China should step up on the world stage and provide a huge number of men for a peacekeeping force - in their interests as they can start flexing and being the new global policeman and get kudos - also no way Russia are going to risk shooting Chinese troops. Maybe offer them the resources in Ukraine instead of the US.
But the fact that the whole of Europe can no longer 500,000 quality troops to provide rotating 150,000 shows how complacent the continent (and us) has become.
"Europe" has over 500 million people living in it.
It does have that capacity. It just doesn't want to.
So it looks like Trump's promise of peace in Gaza and Ukraine lasted less than a month. Hamas already now refusing to release more hostages and Netanyahu threatening more Israeli bombing and special forces raids.
Now the US Defence Secretary giving Zelensky terms he clearly can't and won't accept so that conflict continues too. European defence spending still needed to be increased regardless anyway given the US is more focused on containing China and its own borders militarily than protecting NATO Europe
Trump is giving Netanyahu the All Clear to finish Gaza off for good. I suspect that will now happen. Israel will return to the fray - either next weekend or next year - and entirely level Gaza so that not even an ascetic hamster could reoccupy it
All the facts are a-changing. Pity the Gazans
Which will just create even more Hamas terrorists whether they stay in Gaza or are forced out to Jordan or Egypt
Israel won’t care. Better the Jew-haters are in Jordan or Egypt - beyond the world’s biggest walls - than “inside” Israel
Provided they can secure their borders to then keep Hamas out
Israel has excellent security. Have you ever flown El Al?
However even the best security cannot defend against an angry and open prison occupying a large chunk of the nation in the southwest corner
So, logically, it will be ended
I am not cheerleading this. I say again if I was a young Palestinian lad I would be CONSUMED with hatred for everything Israeli and Jewish, and for very very good reasons. But that just makes Israel’s logic more inexorable
There was a brief chance of peace under Clinton. It has gone forever
I am appalled at what's likely to happen but...
That seems to be a lot of people's line on imminent genocide.
Collective punishment is not justified.
But if it happens it has been wrought by Hamas, Fatah and the PLO and their actions over decades.
Pre-1967 the Palestinians lived in Egypt and Jordan, their returning to Egypt and Jordan albeit in their current borders might be a solution to end eternal conflict.
And for all the talk about how collective punishment is not justified, its happened many times before, including for example Germans being kicked out of areas they were no longer welcome in post-WWII.
So, you've gone back to supporting ethnic cleansing, a crime against humanity. What credo can support such a position? You cannot believe in property rights, in the rule of law, in individual liberty. Why is it fine to throw all those away when it's the Palestinians?
I don't support it, but if Hamas won't lay down their arms and surrender, it might be the least worst option.
My preferred option is an unconditional Hamas surrender and peace can occur, but if that won't happen then war is hell and war leads to sup-optimal results sometimes.
There have been hundreds of wars in history. We didn't need ethnic cleansing to end 99% of them. Why on earth would it be the "least worst option" here?
Hamas can be defeated militarily, if necessary. But what is threatening the current ceasefire is Trump and Netanyahu's talk of ethnic cleansing. What about we make it clear that ethnic cleansing is not an option? That shouldn't be a difficult statement for any country to make. No-one should be promoting it. How is this a difficult idea?
Ethnic cleansing has ended a lot of conflicts. War in Europe in the 40s ended with a lot of it happening.
If Hamas want to lay down their arms and surrender then I'd be delighted, but if they don't then Israel should take the gloves off and do whatever it takes to destroy them.
Anyone who wants to seek refuge away from the conflict should be able to do so in a neighbouring state, that's what refugee status exists for.
The Palestinians are fighting, almost certainly in vain, for their very survival. There is nothing they can do to escape from subjugation or annihilation by the Israelis, so I guess they figure they may as well go down fighting. Much like the Native Americans to European settlers or the British Celts to the Romans.
The Israelis are the ones fighting for their survival. If they don't stop Hamas, they will gladly kill every Jew "from the river to the sea". If Israel lays down its arms, they and the only Jewish state on the entire planet die.
On the other hand if Hamas lays down it's arms, the fighting is over.
If Hamas want to fight, I bloody well hope it is in vain and they are annihilated. You should 100% be calling for Hamas to surrender and stop fighting unconditionally.
Gaza has been reduced to rubble. Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Haifa have not. Israel’s survival is not under threat.
Just because they're losing doesn't mean Hamas aren't threatening Israel's survival. They would gladly kill every Jew in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and Haifa. They are explicit about their aims and trying to do it.
Which is why they need to be destroyed and defeated if they won't lay down their arms.
There's no reason to accord losers more rights or take their atrocities less seriously. If Gaza is destroyed it is because of Hamas and their actions and their refusal to surrender.
A very interesting detail on the attempt to apply the law to President Musk's attempt to shred the National Institutes of Health research programme across the country.
22 States and some Universities have taken legal action, and a Judge has granted a preliminary injunction to stop the move wrt the complainants. That is, the Blue states which complained.
The Red, Trumpist, states which did not take action, may still be vulnerable to have their desired policies inflicted on them with the concomitant impacts.
Concern has been expressed even by a couple of Republicans in the Senate, including Katie Britt. Britt's down the Trump rabbithole, but is no MTG. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Britt
Let's see what President Musk says. On past evidence it will be something about illegal actions or decisions by judges. And let's see what Mr Trump says.
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
I posted on last thread something about the sheer scale of what Europe has on its plate just as you ended the thread (I’m trying not to take it personally) that was highlighted this morning that I will repost below.
Good interview with General Wesley Clark this morning in the World Service. Clearly agitated about the current US direction re Ukraine. Made the key point that he thinks it would need a peacekeeping force of 150,000 to be effective which requires 500,000 “men at arms” and that Europe just doesn’t have that capacity.
Bear in mind that “Europe” also needs to deploy troops in the arctic north down through the Baltic, Poland etc its even more impossible.
It raises questions about whether EU should be courting Turkey and ignoring concerns about Erdogan - if of course it’s not too late and Turkey are so over them now. Turkey has a huge military and could make it work with the EU.
Maybe China should step up on the world stage and provide a huge number of men for a peacekeeping force - in their interests as they can start flexing and being the new global policeman and get kudos - also no way Russia are going to risk shooting Chinese troops. Maybe offer them the resources in Ukraine instead of the US.
But the fact that the whole of Europe can no longer 500,000 quality troops to provide rotating 150,000 shows how complacent the continent (and us) has become.
Poland is the one nation that's taking it seriously, and has stepped up.
The attitude of modern US “conservatives” to international relations is similar to that of the 1960’s anti-war activists - albeit, they’re more willing to bully their neighbours.
There is a big issue with scaling up European defence forces to replace NATO that I don't think anyone has raised on here. How reliable would the constituent parts be over the next couple of decades?
In the UK alone the betting markets have the chance of a Russian friendly PM within 5 years at 35%. Within 20 years that would be odds on. Similar in France and Germany too.
I'd suggest the chance of at least one of those big 3 being Russia friendly at some point, and able to quickly dismantle whatever trust and resources gets built up, as Trump has done, is in the 70-80% range.
The attitude of modern US “conservatives” to international relations is similar to that of the 1960’s anti-war activists - albeit, they’re more willing to bully their neighbours.
The thing I find galling is that these people call themselves the heirs to Ronald Reagan.
He knew the US benefitted from stability and opposing Soviet/Russian aggression.
So it looks like Trump's promise of peace in Gaza and Ukraine lasted less than a month. Hamas already now refusing to release more hostages and Netanyahu threatening more Israeli bombing and special forces raids.
Now the US Defence Secretary giving Zelensky terms he clearly can't and won't accept so that conflict continues too. European defence spending still needed to be increased regardless anyway given the US is more focused on containing China and its own borders militarily than protecting NATO Europe
Trump is giving Netanyahu the All Clear to finish Gaza off for good. I suspect that will now happen. Israel will return to the fray - either next weekend or next year - and entirely level Gaza so that not even an ascetic hamster could reoccupy it
All the facts are a-changing. Pity the Gazans
Which will just create even more Hamas terrorists whether they stay in Gaza or are forced out to Jordan or Egypt
Israel won’t care. Better the Jew-haters are in Jordan or Egypt - beyond the world’s biggest walls - than “inside” Israel
Provided they can secure their borders to then keep Hamas out
Israel has excellent security. Have you ever flown El Al?
However even the best security cannot defend against an angry and open prison occupying a large chunk of the nation in the southwest corner
So, logically, it will be ended
I am not cheerleading this. I say again if I was a young Palestinian lad I would be CONSUMED with hatred for everything Israeli and Jewish, and for very very good reasons. But that just makes Israel’s logic more inexorable
There was a brief chance of peace under Clinton. It has gone forever
I am appalled at what's likely to happen but...
That seems to be a lot of people's line on imminent genocide.
Collective punishment is not justified.
But if it happens it has been wrought by Hamas, Fatah and the PLO and their actions over decades.
Pre-1967 the Palestinians lived in Egypt and Jordan, their returning to Egypt and Jordan albeit in their current borders might be a solution to end eternal conflict.
And for all the talk about how collective punishment is not justified, its happened many times before, including for example Germans being kicked out of areas they were no longer welcome in post-WWII.
So, you've gone back to supporting ethnic cleansing, a crime against humanity. What credo can support such a position? You cannot believe in property rights, in the rule of law, in individual liberty. Why is it fine to throw all those away when it's the Palestinians?
I don't support it, but if Hamas won't lay down their arms and surrender, it might be the least worst option.
My preferred option is an unconditional Hamas surrender and peace can occur, but if that won't happen then war is hell and war leads to sup-optimal results sometimes.
There have been hundreds of wars in history. We didn't need ethnic cleansing to end 99% of them. Why on earth would it be the "least worst option" here?
Hamas can be defeated militarily, if necessary. But what is threatening the current ceasefire is Trump and Netanyahu's talk of ethnic cleansing. What about we make it clear that ethnic cleansing is not an option? That shouldn't be a difficult statement for any country to make. No-one should be promoting it. How is this a difficult idea?
Ethnic cleansing has ended a lot of conflicts. War in Europe in the 40s ended with a lot of it happening.
If Hamas want to lay down their arms and surrender then I'd be delighted, but if they don't then Israel should take the gloves off and do whatever it takes to destroy them.
Anyone who wants to seek refuge away from the conflict should be able to do so in a neighbouring state, that's what refugee status exists for.
The Palestinians are fighting, almost certainly in vain, for their very survival. There is nothing they can do to escape from subjugation or annihilation by the Israelis, so I guess they figure they may as well go down fighting. Much like the Native Americans to European settlers or the British Celts to the Romans.
The Israelis are the ones fighting for their survival. If they don't stop Hamas, they will gladly kill every Jew "from the river to the sea". If Israel lays down its arms, they and the only Jewish state on the entire planet die.
On the other hand if Hamas lays down it's arms, the fighting is over.
If Hamas want to fight, I bloody well hope it is in vain and they are annihilated. You should 100% be calling for Hamas to surrender and stop fighting unconditionally.
Gaza has been reduced to rubble. Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Haifa have not. Israel’s survival is not under threat.
Just because they're losing doesn't mean Hamas aren't threatening Israel's survival. They would gladly kill every Jew in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and Haifa. They are explicit about their aims and trying to do it.
Which is why they need to be destroyed and defeated if they won't lay down their arms.
There's no reason to accord losers more rights or take their atrocities less seriously. If Gaza is destroyed it is because of Hamas and their actions and their refusal to surrender.
Hamas are vile. But bluntly, so too are West Bank settlers and their champions in the Israeli cabinet. Two cheeks of the same arse.
The attitude of modern US “conservatives” to international relations is similar to that of the 1960’s anti-war activists - albeit, they’re more willing to bully their neighbours.
The broligarchs want power and the easiest way to get power once they have unlimited money is to dismantle the US state, and increase the power of money. Voters fell for it.
As a comparator on the header (thanks, @TSE ), Blair's first "clear out the inherited wood" reshuffle was 2 years in, and involved 10 changes at Cabinet Level.
So it looks like Trump's promise of peace in Gaza and Ukraine lasted less than a month. Hamas already now refusing to release more hostages and Netanyahu threatening more Israeli bombing and special forces raids.
Now the US Defence Secretary giving Zelensky terms he clearly can't and won't accept so that conflict continues too. European defence spending still needed to be increased regardless anyway given the US is more focused on containing China and its own borders militarily than protecting NATO Europe
Trump is giving Netanyahu the All Clear to finish Gaza off for good. I suspect that will now happen. Israel will return to the fray - either next weekend or next year - and entirely level Gaza so that not even an ascetic hamster could reoccupy it
All the facts are a-changing. Pity the Gazans
Which will just create even more Hamas terrorists whether they stay in Gaza or are forced out to Jordan or Egypt
Israel won’t care. Better the Jew-haters are in Jordan or Egypt - beyond the world’s biggest walls - than “inside” Israel
Provided they can secure their borders to then keep Hamas out
Israel has excellent security. Have you ever flown El Al?
However even the best security cannot defend against an angry and open prison occupying a large chunk of the nation in the southwest corner
So, logically, it will be ended
I am not cheerleading this. I say again if I was a young Palestinian lad I would be CONSUMED with hatred for everything Israeli and Jewish, and for very very good reasons. But that just makes Israel’s logic more inexorable
There was a brief chance of peace under Clinton. It has gone forever
I am appalled at what's likely to happen but...
That seems to be a lot of people's line on imminent genocide.
Collective punishment is not justified.
But if it happens it has been wrought by Hamas, Fatah and the PLO and their actions over decades.
Pre-1967 the Palestinians lived in Egypt and Jordan, their returning to Egypt and Jordan albeit in their current borders might be a solution to end eternal conflict.
And for all the talk about how collective punishment is not justified, its happened many times before, including for example Germans being kicked out of areas they were no longer welcome in post-WWII.
So, you've gone back to supporting ethnic cleansing, a crime against humanity. What credo can support such a position? You cannot believe in property rights, in the rule of law, in individual liberty. Why is it fine to throw all those away when it's the Palestinians?
I don't support it, but if Hamas won't lay down their arms and surrender, it might be the least worst option.
My preferred option is an unconditional Hamas surrender and peace can occur, but if that won't happen then war is hell and war leads to sup-optimal results sometimes.
There have been hundreds of wars in history. We didn't need ethnic cleansing to end 99% of them. Why on earth would it be the "least worst option" here?
Hamas can be defeated militarily, if necessary. But what is threatening the current ceasefire is Trump and Netanyahu's talk of ethnic cleansing. What about we make it clear that ethnic cleansing is not an option? That shouldn't be a difficult statement for any country to make. No-one should be promoting it. How is this a difficult idea?
Ethnic cleansing has ended a lot of conflicts. War in Europe in the 40s ended with a lot of it happening.
If Hamas want to lay down their arms and surrender then I'd be delighted, but if they don't then Israel should take the gloves off and do whatever it takes to destroy them.
Anyone who wants to seek refuge away from the conflict should be able to do so in a neighbouring state, that's what refugee status exists for.
The Palestinians are fighting, almost certainly in vain, for their very survival. There is nothing they can do to escape from subjugation or annihilation by the Israelis, so I guess they figure they may as well go down fighting. Much like the Native Americans to European settlers or the British Celts to the Romans.
The Israelis are the ones fighting for their survival. If they don't stop Hamas, they will gladly kill every Jew "from the river to the sea". If Israel lays down its arms, they and the only Jewish state on the entire planet die.
On the other hand if Hamas lays down it's arms, the fighting is over.
If Hamas want to fight, I bloody well hope it is in vain and they are annihilated. You should 100% be calling for Hamas to surrender and stop fighting unconditionally.
Gaza has been reduced to rubble. Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Haifa have not. Israel’s survival is not under threat.
Just because they're losing doesn't mean Hamas aren't threatening Israel's survival. They would gladly kill every Jew in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and Haifa. They are explicit about their aims and trying to do it.
Which is why they need to be destroyed and defeated if they won't lay down their arms.
There's no reason to accord losers more rights or take their atrocities less seriously. If Gaza is destroyed it is because of Hamas and their actions and their refusal to surrender.
Hamas are vile. But bluntly, so too are West Bank settlers and their champions in the Israeli cabinet. Two cheeks of the same arse.
Orders of magnitude different. The settlers don't want to kill every Muslim from the river to the sea, if they did they'd be equivalents.
The attitude of modern US “conservatives” to international relations is similar to that of the 1960’s anti-war activists - albeit, they’re more willing to bully their neighbours.
The thing I find galling is that these people call themselves the heirs to Ronald Reagan.
He knew the US benefitted from stability and opposing Soviet/Russian aggression.
Yeah, the Trump approach would be to get on the phone to Brezhnev and carve Europe up between them, in return for some lucrative deal for his family.
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
Reminding us this is exactly what Trump did when he negotiated the withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Did they have to pick Munich for this security conference?
Could have been Yalta where the West sold out Eastern Europe to Stalin. Slightly uncomfortable that it’s internationally recognised as part of Ukraine but has been annexed by Russia, however I’m sure Putin & Trump would be fine with that.
So it looks like Trump's promise of peace in Gaza and Ukraine lasted less than a month. Hamas already now refusing to release more hostages and Netanyahu threatening more Israeli bombing and special forces raids.
Now the US Defence Secretary giving Zelensky terms he clearly can't and won't accept so that conflict continues too. European defence spending still needed to be increased regardless anyway given the US is more focused on containing China and its own borders militarily than protecting NATO Europe
Trump is giving Netanyahu the All Clear to finish Gaza off for good. I suspect that will now happen. Israel will return to the fray - either next weekend or next year - and entirely level Gaza so that not even an ascetic hamster could reoccupy it
All the facts are a-changing. Pity the Gazans
Which will just create even more Hamas terrorists whether they stay in Gaza or are forced out to Jordan or Egypt
Israel won’t care. Better the Jew-haters are in Jordan or Egypt - beyond the world’s biggest walls - than “inside” Israel
Provided they can secure their borders to then keep Hamas out
Israel has excellent security. Have you ever flown El Al?
However even the best security cannot defend against an angry and open prison occupying a large chunk of the nation in the southwest corner
So, logically, it will be ended
I am not cheerleading this. I say again if I was a young Palestinian lad I would be CONSUMED with hatred for everything Israeli and Jewish, and for very very good reasons. But that just makes Israel’s logic more inexorable
There was a brief chance of peace under Clinton. It has gone forever
I am appalled at what's likely to happen but...
That seems to be a lot of people's line on imminent genocide.
Collective punishment is not justified.
But if it happens it has been wrought by Hamas, Fatah and the PLO and their actions over decades.
Pre-1967 the Palestinians lived in Egypt and Jordan, their returning to Egypt and Jordan albeit in their current borders might be a solution to end eternal conflict.
And for all the talk about how collective punishment is not justified, its happened many times before, including for example Germans being kicked out of areas they were no longer welcome in post-WWII.
So, you've gone back to supporting ethnic cleansing, a crime against humanity. What credo can support such a position? You cannot believe in property rights, in the rule of law, in individual liberty. Why is it fine to throw all those away when it's the Palestinians?
I don't support it, but if Hamas won't lay down their arms and surrender, it might be the least worst option.
My preferred option is an unconditional Hamas surrender and peace can occur, but if that won't happen then war is hell and war leads to sup-optimal results sometimes.
There have been hundreds of wars in history. We didn't need ethnic cleansing to end 99% of them. Why on earth would it be the "least worst option" here?
Hamas can be defeated militarily, if necessary. But what is threatening the current ceasefire is Trump and Netanyahu's talk of ethnic cleansing. What about we make it clear that ethnic cleansing is not an option? That shouldn't be a difficult statement for any country to make. No-one should be promoting it. How is this a difficult idea?
Ethnic cleansing has ended a lot of conflicts. War in Europe in the 40s ended with a lot of it happening.
If Hamas want to lay down their arms and surrender then I'd be delighted, but if they don't then Israel should take the gloves off and do whatever it takes to destroy them.
Anyone who wants to seek refuge away from the conflict should be able to do so in a neighbouring state, that's what refugee status exists for.
The Palestinians are fighting, almost certainly in vain, for their very survival. There is nothing they can do to escape from subjugation or annihilation by the Israelis, so I guess they figure they may as well go down fighting. Much like the Native Americans to European settlers or the British Celts to the Romans.
The Israelis are the ones fighting for their survival. If they don't stop Hamas, they will gladly kill every Jew "from the river to the sea". If Israel lays down its arms, they and the only Jewish state on the entire planet die.
On the other hand if Hamas lays down it's arms, the fighting is over.
If Hamas want to fight, I bloody well hope it is in vain and they are annihilated. You should 100% be calling for Hamas to surrender and stop fighting unconditionally.
Gaza has been reduced to rubble. Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Haifa have not. Israel’s survival is not under threat.
Just because they're losing doesn't mean Hamas aren't threatening Israel's survival. They would gladly kill every Jew in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and Haifa. They are explicit about their aims and trying to do it.
Which is why they need to be destroyed and defeated if they won't lay down their arms.
There's no reason to accord losers more rights or take their atrocities less seriously. If Gaza is destroyed it is because of Hamas and their actions and their refusal to surrender.
Hamas are vile. But bluntly, so too are West Bank settlers and their champions in the Israeli cabinet. Two cheeks of the same arse.
Orders of magnitude different. The settlers don't want to kill every Muslim from the river to the sea, if they did they'd be equivalents.
I would not count on that. The settlers are relentlessly violent towards the locals.
There is a big issue with scaling up European defence forces to replace NATO that I don't think anyone has raised on here. How reliable would the constituent parts be over the next couple of decades?
In the UK alone the betting markets have the chance of a Russian friendly PM within 5 years at 35%. Within 20 years that would be odds on. Similar in France and Germany too.
I'd suggest the chance of at least one of those big 3 being Russia friendly at some point, and able to quickly dismantle whatever trust and resources gets built up, as Trump has done, is in the 70-80% range.
We may have already lost.
I don’t think we’ll get any that are on a par with Schroeder or Merkel.
I think the scales have fallen from a lot of peoples’ eyes.
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
I posted on last thread something about the sheer scale of what Europe has on its plate just as you ended the thread (I’m trying not to take it personally) that was highlighted this morning that I will repost below.
Good interview with General Wesley Clark this morning in the World Service. Clearly agitated about the current US direction re Ukraine. Made the key point that he thinks it would need a peacekeeping force of 150,000 to be effective which requires 500,000 “men at arms” and that Europe just doesn’t have that capacity.
Bear in mind that “Europe” also needs to deploy troops in the arctic north down through the Baltic, Poland etc its even more impossible.
It raises questions about whether EU should be courting Turkey and ignoring concerns about Erdogan - if of course it’s not too late and Turkey are so over them now. Turkey has a huge military and could make it work with the EU.
Maybe China should step up on the world stage and provide a huge number of men for a peacekeeping force - in their interests as they can start flexing and being the new global policeman and get kudos - also no way Russia are going to risk shooting Chinese troops. Maybe offer them the resources in Ukraine instead of the US.
But the fact that the whole of Europe can no longer 500,000 quality troops to provide rotating 150,000 shows how complacent the continent (and us) has become.
"Europe" has over 500 million people living in it.
It does have that capacity. It just doesn't want to.
I did pretty clearly mean that It currently doesn’t have (present tense) that capacity of troops - it does have the capacity of people to change to those sorts of numbers. It will need to do something about it which it can - will require many countries to start spending and chip in.
There is a big issue with scaling up European defence forces to replace NATO that I don't think anyone has raised on here. How reliable would the constituent parts be over the next couple of decades?
In the UK alone the betting markets have the chance of a Russian friendly PM within 5 years at 35%. Within 20 years that would be odds on. Similar in France and Germany too.
I'd suggest the chance of at least one of those big 3 being Russia friendly at some point, and able to quickly dismantle whatever trust and resources gets built up, as Trump has done, is in the 70-80% range.
We may have already lost.
I don’t think we’ll get any that are on a par with Schroeder or Merkel.
I think the scales have fallen from a lot of peoples’ eyes.
Yet the Putin-friendly AfD are likely to prosper in the upcoming German election
I think I was too preoccupied with wondering if Lord Hermer would sue me for calling him the Liz Truss of Attorneys General.
“Attorney General” as a phrase is ultimately descended from Ancient Greek, Latin, Anglo-Saxon and proto-Indo-European
So your effete French pluralisation is incorrect
The deepest origins of the plural of “attorney general” can be traced back to Proto-Indo-European (PIE) lawgivers, who were known as “ǵhértōm-wégos” (literally, “one who grunts in matters of dispute”). The root ǵhért- (meaning “to growl while asserting dominance”) and wégos (meaning “one who goes forth shouting”) eventually gave rise to Proto-Germanic ward-knutaz (“guardian of words”), which then evolved into Old English “Þēod-weardcniht”, meaning “knight-protector of the people’s law.”
By the time of the Anglo-Saxons, legal advocates were known as “ġe-hēafodmanas”, a compound meaning “foremost loud-headed men”- a direct reference to their tendency to bellow loudly in the moot court while flailing their arms to reinforce their legal arguments. This term was later absorbed into Norman legal vernacular, where it fused with the Latinate “attorniones generalissimi” in a linguistic catastrophe precipitated by the 11th-century Norman Conquest
By the time of Henry II, medieval scribes, in an effort to standardize legal terms, decided to retain the “ġe-hēafodmanas” prefix for ceremonial purposes, while attorniones generalissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque became the standard in state documents (though rarely used in casual conversation due to its tendency to cause loss of breath before completion)
Linguistic chaos peaked in the 14th century, when a poorly translated legal scroll in Middle English rendered the entire phrase as “Þēod-weardcnihtas ġe-hēafodmanas and attorniones generalissimissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque.” This was subsequently deemed completely unusable, but - pivotally - survived in the archives and flourished at the Inns of Court, as it does to this day
Conclusion
Thus, while “attorneys general” remains the watered-down, pedestrian plural used by the common rabble such as @TheScreamingEagles who lives in “Sheffield”, the true, unabridged, and exalted plural - “Þēod-weardcnihtas ġe-hēafodmanas et attorniones generalissimissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque”- remains very much in use in the most rarefied and arcane corridors of high English legal ritual
There is a big issue with scaling up European defence forces to replace NATO that I don't think anyone has raised on here. How reliable would the constituent parts be over the next couple of decades?
In the UK alone the betting markets have the chance of a Russian friendly PM within 5 years at 35%. Within 20 years that would be odds on. Similar in France and Germany too.
I'd suggest the chance of at least one of those big 3 being Russia friendly at some point, and able to quickly dismantle whatever trust and resources gets built up, as Trump has done, is in the 70-80% range.
We may have already lost.
From Sunder Katwala a couple of days ago. One problem we have is that younger people are not proud to be British, unlike the same age cohort in 2004.
I wonder what they are not proud of. It's a thread exploring the question.
Once Trump abandons Europe and freezes the Ukraine conflict, we need a new European Defence Pact, with guarantees for each others defence. Completely outside NATO and the EU.
This needs to include, at a minimum, the UK, France, Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states.
Other nations to be invited contingent on meeting minimum defence spending and not having a veto on military action.
Europe has the economic and military capacity to be vastly superior to Russia. We don't need the US to do that, not so we need to cede any further land.
There is a big issue with scaling up European defence forces to replace NATO that I don't think anyone has raised on here. How reliable would the constituent parts be over the next couple of decades?
In the UK alone the betting markets have the chance of a Russian friendly PM within 5 years at 35%. Within 20 years that would be odds on. Similar in France and Germany too.
I'd suggest the chance of at least one of those big 3 being Russia friendly at some point, and able to quickly dismantle whatever trust and resources gets built up, as Trump has done, is in the 70-80% range.
We may have already lost.
From Sunder Katwala a couple of days ago. One problem we have is that younger people are not proud to be British, unlike the same age cohort in 2004.
I wonder what they are not proud of. It's a thread exploring the question.
Probably a mix of social media promoting affinity with like-minded people in other countries rather than differently minded people in the same nation, and the increasing rise in popularity to focus on slavery in the British Empire as some sort of unique and special evil.
That Gorka seems like a nice bloke. Great to hear a Hungaro-Brit clarifying that the Ukraine problem is in ‘your’ hemisphere, not ‘our’ (ie the US) hemisphere. Also bonus points for use of ‘remoaner’.
The politics is moving fast. I can’t see Starmer avoiding a large defence boost. Imagine a service chief resignation now? No second term. And the markets would stand for enhanced borrowing in order to preserve the existence of said markets, while we work out how to cut our cloth.
Pushback against Hegseth and Chump on Ukraine from John Healey The Defence Secretary and the Secretary General of NATO, which is positive news. I'll be interested to see what James Cartlidge (Shad Def Sec) and whoever is Reform's Defence Spokesperson have to say on this.
Defence Secretary John Healey says there will be no talks about Ukraine without Ukraine involved
Healey adds the UK remains committed to ensuring Kyiv is in the strongest negotiating and fighting position as he says "durable peace" remains the goal
Nato Secretary-General Mark Rutte says any peace agreement reached must ensure Russia will make no further attempts to annexe Ukrainian land in the future
The comments come after Donald Trump said he and Vladimir Putin had agreed to start negotiations on ending the war "immediately"
I think I was too preoccupied with wondering if Lord Hermer would sue me for calling him the Liz Truss of Attorneys General.
“Attorney General” as a phrase is ultimately descended from Ancient Greek, Latin, Anglo-Saxon and proto-Indo-European
So your effete French pluralisation is incorrect
The deepest origins of the plural of “attorney general” can be traced back to Proto-Indo-European (PIE) lawgivers, who were known as “ǵhértōm-wégos” (literally, “one who grunts in matters of dispute”). The root ǵhért- (meaning “to growl while asserting dominance”) and wégos (meaning “one who goes forth shouting”) eventually gave rise to Proto-Germanic ward-knutaz (“guardian of words”), which then evolved into Old English “Þēod-weardcniht”, meaning “knight-protector of the people’s law.”
By the time of the Anglo-Saxons, legal advocates were known as “ġe-hēafodmanas”, a compound meaning “foremost loud-headed men”- a direct reference to their tendency to bellow loudly in the moot court while flailing their arms to reinforce their legal arguments. This term was later absorbed into Norman legal vernacular, where it fused with the Latinate “attorniones generalissimi” in a linguistic catastrophe precipitated by the 11th-century Norman Conquest
By the time of Henry II, medieval scribes, in an effort to standardize legal terms, decided to retain the “ġe-hēafodmanas” prefix for ceremonial purposes, while attorniones generalissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque became the standard in state documents (though rarely used in casual conversation due to its tendency to cause loss of breath before completion)
Linguistic chaos peaked in the 14th century, when a poorly translated legal scroll in Middle English rendered the entire phrase as “Þēod-weardcnihtas ġe-hēafodmanas and attorniones generalissimissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque.” This was subsequently deemed completely unusable, but - pivotally - survived in the archives and flourished at the Inns of Court, as it does to this day
Conclusion
Thus, while “attorneys general” remains the watered-down, pedestrian plural used by the common rabble such as @TheScreamingEagles who lives in “Sheffield”, the true, unabridged, and exalted plural - “Þēod-weardcnihtas ġe-hēafodmanas et attorniones generalissimissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque”- remains very much in use in the most rarefied and arcane corridors of high English legal ritual
This is someone who doesn't know how to use a full stop, lecturing us on grammar.
Once Trump abandons Europe and freezes the Ukraine conflict, we need a new European Defence Pact, with guarantees for each others defence. Completely outside NATO and the EU.
This needs to include, at a minimum, the UK, France, Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states.
Other nations to be invited contingent on meeting minimum defence spending and not having a veto on military action.
Europe has the economic and military capacity to be vastly superior to Russia. We don't need the US to do that, not so we need to cede any further land.
Requires too much reprioritisation. Workd weary shrugging, ignoring freezing a conflict, and statements about being realistic are on the way.
Pushback against Hegseth and Chump on Ukraine from John Healey The Defence Secretary and the Secretary General of NATO, which is positive news. I'll be interested to see what James Cartlidge (Shad Def Sec) and whoever is Reform's Defence Spokesperson have to say on this.
Defence Secretary John Healey says there will be no talks about Ukraine without Ukraine involved
Healey adds the UK remains committed to ensuring Kyiv is in the strongest negotiating and fighting position as he says "durable peace" remains the goal
Nato Secretary-General Mark Rutte says any peace agreement reached must ensure Russia will make no further attempts to annexe Ukrainian land in the future
The comments come after Donald Trump said he and Vladimir Putin had agreed to start negotiations on ending the war "immediately"
The attitude of modern US “conservatives” to international relations is similar to that of the 1960’s anti-war activists - albeit, they’re more willing to bully their neighbours.
The thing I find galling is that these people call themselves the heirs to Ronald Reagan.
He knew the US benefitted from stability and opposing Soviet/Russian aggression.
Yup. Imagine Reagan, Thatcher, and Cole in place since 2022.
The politics is moving fast. I can’t see Starmer avoiding a large defence boost. Imagine a service chief resignation now? No second term. And the markets would stand for enhanced borrowing in order to preserve the existence of said markets, while we work out how to cut our cloth.
All parties (except maybe the greens and even they dialled back the anti nato stuff) said they'd increase defence spending.
Once Trump abandons Europe and freezes the Ukraine conflict, we need a new European Defence Pact, with guarantees for each others defence. Completely outside NATO and the EU.
This needs to include, at a minimum, the UK, France, Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states.
Other nations to be invited contingent on meeting minimum defence spending and not having a veto on military action.
Europe has the economic and military capacity to be vastly superior to Russia. We don't need the US to do that, not so we need to cede any further land.
Presumably Trump is going to insist that Ukraine stop destroying Russia's oil industry. Even another couple of months of the British/French/Ukrainian made missiles lamming into refineries and storage could be enought to wreck the Russian economy.
We should get on apace with the job before talks begin.
The politics is moving fast. I can’t see Starmer avoiding a large defence boost. Imagine a service chief resignation now? No second term. And the markets would stand for enhanced borrowing in order to preserve the existence of said markets, while we work out how to cut our cloth.
All parties (except maybe the greens and even they dialled back the anti nato stuff) said they'd increase defence spending.
Yes but none of them meant it (we definitely know the Tories didn’t because we can see their track record), and Labour hasn’t been planning to by any great extent.
I think I was too preoccupied with wondering if Lord Hermer would sue me for calling him the Liz Truss of Attorneys General.
“Attorney General” as a phrase is ultimately descended from Ancient Greek, Latin, Anglo-Saxon and proto-Indo-European
So your effete French pluralisation is incorrect
The deepest origins of the plural of “attorney general” can be traced back to Proto-Indo-European (PIE) lawgivers, who were known as “ǵhértōm-wégos” (literally, “one who grunts in matters of dispute”). The root ǵhért- (meaning “to growl while asserting dominance”) and wégos (meaning “one who goes forth shouting”) eventually gave rise to Proto-Germanic ward-knutaz (“guardian of words”), which then evolved into Old English “Þēod-weardcniht”, meaning “knight-protector of the people’s law.”
By the time of the Anglo-Saxons, legal advocates were known as “ġe-hēafodmanas”, a compound meaning “foremost loud-headed men”- a direct reference to their tendency to bellow loudly in the moot court while flailing their arms to reinforce their legal arguments. This term was later absorbed into Norman legal vernacular, where it fused with the Latinate “attorniones generalissimi” in a linguistic catastrophe precipitated by the 11th-century Norman Conquest
By the time of Henry II, medieval scribes, in an effort to standardize legal terms, decided to retain the “ġe-hēafodmanas” prefix for ceremonial purposes, while attorniones generalissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque became the standard in state documents (though rarely used in casual conversation due to its tendency to cause loss of breath before completion)
Linguistic chaos peaked in the 14th century, when a poorly translated legal scroll in Middle English rendered the entire phrase as “Þēod-weardcnihtas ġe-hēafodmanas and attorniones generalissimissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque.” This was subsequently deemed completely unusable, but - pivotally - survived in the archives and flourished at the Inns of Court, as it does to this day
Conclusion
Thus, while “attorneys general” remains the watered-down, pedestrian plural used by the common rabble such as @TheScreamingEagles who lives in “Sheffield”, the true, unabridged, and exalted plural - “Þēod-weardcnihtas ġe-hēafodmanas et attorniones generalissimissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque”- remains very much in use in the most rarefied and arcane corridors of high English legal ritual
This is someone who doesn't know how to use a full stop, lecturing us on grammar.
Not just grammar. History. Incredible history
How many people know this? -
Moreover, at Oxford’s Bodleian Library, scholars insist that the phrase - “Þēod-weardcnihtas ġe-hēafodmanas et attorniones generalissimissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque” - is still invoked during legal convocations immediately preceding Martinmas and between the hours of elevenses and “biscuit”, such rituals only to take place within five furlongs of The House
The Order of the Garter itself is said to have a parchment containing the phrase, inscribed in Cornish gold leaf, bound in Hebridean vellum, and buried in a miniature vault under the tombstone of a weasel that once belonged to Lord Byron, in the grounds of Windsor Castle. The vault can only be opened if England have successfully forced the follow on against Australia
As a comparator on the header (thanks, @TSE ), Blair's first "clear out the inherited wood" reshuffle was 2 years in, and involved 10 changes at Cabinet Level.
Once Trump abandons Europe and freezes the Ukraine conflict, we need a new European Defence Pact, with guarantees for each others defence. Completely outside NATO and the EU.
This needs to include, at a minimum, the UK, France, Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states.
Other nations to be invited contingent on meeting minimum defence spending and not having a veto on military action.
Europe has the economic and military capacity to be vastly superior to Russia. We don't need the US to do that, not so we need to cede any further land.
Why should other countries be “invited” - every EU country should be mandated as part of continued membership that they must spend over 3 and maybe 5% gdp on defence. Why should countries like Ireland freeload knowing that everyone else would have to step in to cover their backsides.
Countries that can’t or won’t provide acceptable and useful ships or planes or troops should have to offset with extra financial contributions.
We have always lived in this reality—we just didn’t want to admit it. The difference between Biden and Trump is that Trump says out loud what Biden was thinking and doing about Ukraine.
Biden was against NATO expansion, against providing Ukraine with enough support to retake occupied territories when it was still possible, and against strong sanctions on Russia. Trump is just making it explicit.
Trump: "Like on tractors that can handle anything from hurricanes to lightning to anything. They use magnets. It's a new theory -- magnets. They're gonna lift the planes up. And it doesn't work."
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
Reminding us this is exactly what Trump did when he negotiated the withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Did they have to pick Munich for this security conference?
The current “negotiations” Trump is entering feel more Molotov-Ribbentrop than Munich, with Trump being the complacent and naive Stalin and Putin the Hitler.
I think I was too preoccupied with wondering if Lord Hermer would sue me for calling him the Liz Truss of Attorneys General.
“Attorney General” as a phrase is ultimately descended from Ancient Greek, Latin, Anglo-Saxon and proto-Indo-European
So your effete French pluralisation is incorrect
The deepest origins of the plural of “attorney general” can be traced back to Proto-Indo-European (PIE) lawgivers, who were known as “ǵhértōm-wégos” (literally, “one who grunts in matters of dispute”). The root ǵhért- (meaning “to growl while asserting dominance”) and wégos (meaning “one who goes forth shouting”) eventually gave rise to Proto-Germanic ward-knutaz (“guardian of words”), which then evolved into Old English “Þēod-weardcniht”, meaning “knight-protector of the people’s law.”
By the time of the Anglo-Saxons, legal advocates were known as “ġe-hēafodmanas”, a compound meaning “foremost loud-headed men”- a direct reference to their tendency to bellow loudly in the moot court while flailing their arms to reinforce their legal arguments. This term was later absorbed into Norman legal vernacular, where it fused with the Latinate “attorniones generalissimi” in a linguistic catastrophe precipitated by the 11th-century Norman Conquest
By the time of Henry II, medieval scribes, in an effort to standardize legal terms, decided to retain the “ġe-hēafodmanas” prefix for ceremonial purposes, while attorniones generalissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque became the standard in state documents (though rarely used in casual conversation due to its tendency to cause loss of breath before completion)
Linguistic chaos peaked in the 14th century, when a poorly translated legal scroll in Middle English rendered the entire phrase as “Þēod-weardcnihtas ġe-hēafodmanas and attorniones generalissimissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque.” This was subsequently deemed completely unusable, but - pivotally - survived in the archives and flourished at the Inns of Court, as it does to this day
Conclusion
Thus, while “attorneys general” remains the watered-down, pedestrian plural used by the common rabble such as @TheScreamingEagles who lives in “Sheffield”, the true, unabridged, and exalted plural - “Þēod-weardcnihtas ġe-hēafodmanas et attorniones generalissimissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque”- remains very much in use in the most rarefied and arcane corridors of high English legal ritual
This is someone who doesn't know how to use a full stop, lecturing us on grammar.
Not just grammar. History. Incredible history
How many people know this? -
Moreover, at Oxford’s Bodleian Library, scholars insist that the phrase - “Þēod-weardcnihtas ġe-hēafodmanas et attorniones generalissimissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque” - is still invoked during legal convocations immediately preceding Martinmas and between the hours of elevenses and “biscuit”, such rituals only to take place within five furlongs of The House
The Order of the Garter itself is said to have a parchment containing the phrase, inscribed in Cornish gold leaf, bound in Hebridean vellum, and buried in a miniature vault under the tombstone of a weasel that once belonged to Lord Byron, in the grounds of Windsor Castle. The vault can only be opened if England have successfully forced the follow on against Australia
Once Trump abandons Europe and freezes the Ukraine conflict, we need a new European Defence Pact, with guarantees for each others defence. Completely outside NATO and the EU.
This needs to include, at a minimum, the UK, France, Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states.
Other nations to be invited contingent on meeting minimum defence spending and not having a veto on military action.
Europe has the economic and military capacity to be vastly superior to Russia. We don't need the US to do that, not so we need to cede any further land.
Presumably Trump is going to insist that Ukraine stop destroying Russia's oil industry. Even another couple of months of the British/French/Ukrainian made missiles lamming into refineries and storage could be enought to wreck the Russian economy.
We should get on apace with the job before talks begin.
Time for Poland to get some nukes too, ready for the next time.
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
Yep. The US is caving to Russia's main demands - Ukraine never joining NATO, Ukraine never getting 2014 borders back - before negotiations even start. Plus throwing in "the US isn't interested in defending Europe any more" as a free bonus. This looks like shit "deal artistry" if you don't yet realise that Trump is more or less pro-Putin.
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
Reminding us this is exactly what Trump did when he negotiated the withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Did they have to pick Munich for this security conference?
The current “negotiations” Trump is entering feel more Molotov-Ribbentrop than Munich, with Trump being the complacent and naive Stalin and Putin the Hitler.
Gosh, I didn't know Molotov-Ribbentrop happened in Munich as well.
Splendid city as it is, shouldn't we just stop having international peace conferences there?
There is a big issue with scaling up European defence forces to replace NATO that I don't think anyone has raised on here. How reliable would the constituent parts be over the next couple of decades?
In the UK alone the betting markets have the chance of a Russian friendly PM within 5 years at 35%. Within 20 years that would be odds on. Similar in France and Germany too.
I'd suggest the chance of at least one of those big 3 being Russia friendly at some point, and able to quickly dismantle whatever trust and resources gets built up, as Trump has done, is in the 70-80% range.
We may have already lost.
From Sunder Katwala a couple of days ago. One problem we have is that younger people are not proud to be British, unlike the same age cohort in 2004.
I wonder what they are not proud of. It's a thread exploring the question.
Probably a mix of social media promoting affinity with like-minded people in other countries rather than differently minded people in the same nation, and the increasing rise in popularity to focus on slavery in the British Empire as some sort of unique and special evil.
And basic demographic changes. It’s a shame the samples are so small that a breakdown by ONS background group wouldn’t be possible.
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
Yep. The US is caving to Russia's main demands - Ukraine never joining NATO, Ukraine never getting 2014 borders back - before negotiations even start. Plus throwing in "the US isn't interested in defending Europe any more" as a free bonus. This looks like shit "deal artistry" if you don't yet realise that Trump is more or less pro-Putin.
There was a chap on the radio this morning who said along the lines of “I haven’t read The art of the deal so don’t know if it recommends giving everything the other side wants to them before the negotiations”.
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
Reminding us this is exactly what Trump did when he negotiated the withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Did they have to pick Munich for this security conference?
The current “negotiations” Trump is entering feel more Molotov-Ribbentrop than Munich, with Trump being the complacent and naive Stalin and Putin the Hitler.
Gosh, I didn't know Molotov-Ribbentrop happened in Munich as well.
Splendid city as it is, shouldn't we just stop having international peace conferences there?
It is quite unfortunate. Perhaps we should be grateful they didn’t choose Wannsee
Once Trump abandons Europe and freezes the Ukraine conflict, we need a new European Defence Pact, with guarantees for each others defence. Completely outside NATO and the EU.
This needs to include, at a minimum, the UK, France, Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states.
Other nations to be invited contingent on meeting minimum defence spending and not having a veto on military action.
Europe has the economic and military capacity to be vastly superior to Russia. We don't need the US to do that, not so we need to cede any further land.
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
Yep. The US is caving to Russia's main demands - Ukraine never joining NATO, Ukraine never getting 2014 borders back - before negotiations even start. Plus throwing in "the US isn't interested in defending Europe any more" as a free bonus. This looks like shit "deal artistry" if you don't yet realise that Trump is more or less pro-Putin.
There was a chap on the radio this morning who said along the lines of “I haven’t read The art of the deal so don’t know if it recommends giving everything the other side wants to them before the negotiations”.
Think it was the ex head of MI5.
Trump probably hasn't read it either to be fair.....
Once Trump abandons Europe and freezes the Ukraine conflict, we need a new European Defence Pact, with guarantees for each others defence. Completely outside NATO and the EU.
This needs to include, at a minimum, the UK, France, Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states.
Other nations to be invited contingent on meeting minimum defence spending and not having a veto on military action.
Europe has the economic and military capacity to be vastly superior to Russia. We don't need the US to do that, not so we need to cede any further land.
Why should other countries be “invited” - every EU country should be mandated as part of continued membership that they must spend over 3 and maybe 5% gdp on defence. Why should countries like Ireland freeload knowing that everyone else would have to step in to cover their backsides.
Countries that can’t or won’t provide acceptable and useful ships or planes or troops should have to offset with extra financial contributions.
Hungary is more likely to side with Russia than Ukraine.
Germany or Ireland would try to veto any action.
We need a coalition of the willing and not setting the terms based on the lowest common denominator. Other countries will likely want to join over time, but will have much less influence than it they were founding members.
Comments
Given I presume population growth is still going gangbusters, per capita GDP not looking good.
Make no mistake, this is a pivotal day in this century. Pulling the plug on Ukraine, US disinvesting in European security, and the big powers redrawing the boundaries of smaller ones. A new reality faces Europe and it’s going to require urgent investment in defence & security.
https://x.com/JSHeappey/status/1889732227069546816
AmIRight?
A vast project is proposed. Billions to be spent. Enormous infrastructure.
Buried at the back of 10 million pages of bullshit, it will actually reveal that nothing, literally nothing, is to happen.
The art will be created by the Enquiry Industrial Complex fighting nothing for decades.
I guess they really are Luddites.
Good interview with General Wesley Clark this morning in the World Service. Clearly agitated about the current US direction re Ukraine. Made the key point that he thinks it would need a peacekeeping force of 150,000 to be effective which requires 500,000 “men at arms” and that Europe just doesn’t have that capacity.
Bear in mind that “Europe” also needs to deploy troops in the arctic north down through the Baltic, Poland etc its even more impossible.
It raises questions about whether EU should be courting Turkey and ignoring concerns about Erdogan - if of course it’s not too late and Turkey are so over them now. Turkey has a huge military and could make it work with the EU.
Maybe China should step up on the world stage and provide a huge number of men for a peacekeeping force - in their interests as they can start flexing and being the new global policeman and get kudos - also no way Russia are going to risk shooting Chinese troops. Maybe offer them the resources in Ukraine instead of the US.
But the fact that the whole of Europe can no longer 500,000 quality troops to provide rotating 150,000 shows how complacent the continent (and us) has become.
Defence Secretary John Healey says there will be no talks about Ukraine without Ukraine involved
Healey adds the UK remains committed to ensuring Kyiv is in the strongest negotiating and fighting position as he says "durable peace" remains the goal
Nato Secretary-General Mark Rutte says any peace agreement reached must ensure Russia will make no further attempts to annexe Ukrainian land in the future
The comments come after Donald Trump said he and Vladimir Putin had agreed to start negotiations on ending the war "immediately"
Also on Wednesday, US Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth warned Ukraine is "unlikely" to return to its pre-2014 borders
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4g97971rwnt
Or didn't.
Most predictions still seem on the high side.
On this I think he is correct.
We need to take our defence seriously and stop relying on the US.
Think you're talking about some specific individuals' experiences there.
For others, fully engaged in the parenting, it's what was planned, just have to grit the teeth and wait hopefully for the influence of the NCT to fade ...
Ironically though, isn’t the one who is the safest the one who is the biggest problem - Reeves?
https://x.com/threshedthought/status/1889904666059911610?s=46
Reminding us this is exactly what Trump did when he negotiated the withdrawal from Afghanistan.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4gx50z4527t
But we also got monthly data this morning, and that shows the UK economy grew by 0.4% in December alone, surpassing pretty poor figures in the previous couple of months.
Something for the government to cling onto.
At least with Bridget we know it’s because she’s just useless and puts ideology over sense.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1889904666059911610.html
I can't see this being a good move for Reform, the most avid adopters of home batteries I've met are older mortgage-free Reform adjacent peeps. In any case, these will have had to be installed by a qualified electrician and compliant with electrical regs. Assuming their objection is the dangers posed?
I think I was too preoccupied with wondering if Lord Hermer would sue me for calling him the Liz Truss of Attorneys General.
It does have that capacity. It just doesn't want to.
Which is why they need to be destroyed and defeated if they won't lay down their arms.
There's no reason to accord losers more rights or take their atrocities less seriously. If Gaza is destroyed it is because of Hamas and their actions and their refusal to surrender.
22 States and some Universities have taken legal action, and a Judge has granted a preliminary injunction to stop the move wrt the complainants. That is, the Blue states which complained.
The Red, Trumpist, states which did not take action, may still be vulnerable to have their desired policies inflicted on them with the concomitant impacts.
Concern has been expressed even by a couple of Republicans in the Senate, including Katie Britt. Britt's down the Trump rabbithole, but is no MTG.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Britt
Let's see what President Musk says. On past evidence it will be something about illegal actions or decisions by judges. And let's see what Mr Trump says.
The Hill:
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/5137047-federal-judge-restrains-nih-research/
Text of legal case: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.280590/gov.uscourts.mad.280590.1.0.pdf
You can't fault Poland.
I can't help it, never mekong typos myself.
The attitude of modern US “conservatives” to international relations is similar to that of the 1960’s anti-war activists - albeit, they’re more willing to bully their neighbours.
In the UK alone the betting markets have the chance of a Russian friendly PM within 5 years at 35%. Within 20 years that would be odds on. Similar in France and Germany too.
I'd suggest the chance of at least one of those big 3 being Russia friendly at some point, and able to quickly dismantle whatever trust and resources gets built up, as Trump has done, is in the 70-80% range.
We may have already lost.
He knew the US benefitted from stability and opposing Soviet/Russian aggression.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_British_cabinet_reshuffle
I think the scales have fallen from a lot of peoples’ eyes.
descended from Ancient Greek, Latin, Anglo-Saxon and proto-Indo-European
So your effete French pluralisation is incorrect
The deepest origins of the plural of “attorney general” can be traced back to Proto-Indo-European (PIE) lawgivers, who were known as “ǵhértōm-wégos” (literally, “one who grunts in matters of dispute”). The root ǵhért- (meaning “to growl while asserting dominance”) and wégos (meaning “one who goes forth shouting”) eventually gave rise to Proto-Germanic ward-knutaz (“guardian of words”), which then evolved into Old English “Þēod-weardcniht”, meaning “knight-protector of the people’s law.”
By the time of the Anglo-Saxons, legal advocates were known as “ġe-hēafodmanas”, a compound meaning “foremost loud-headed men”- a direct reference to their tendency to bellow loudly in the moot court while flailing their arms to reinforce their legal arguments. This term was later absorbed into Norman legal vernacular, where it fused with the Latinate “attorniones generalissimi” in a linguistic catastrophe precipitated by the 11th-century Norman Conquest
By the time of Henry II, medieval scribes, in an effort to standardize legal terms, decided to retain the “ġe-hēafodmanas” prefix for ceremonial purposes, while attorniones generalissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque became the standard in state documents (though rarely used in casual conversation due to its tendency to cause loss of breath before completion)
Linguistic chaos peaked in the 14th century, when a poorly translated legal scroll in Middle English rendered the entire phrase as “Þēod-weardcnihtas ġe-hēafodmanas and attorniones generalissimissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque.” This was subsequently deemed completely unusable, but - pivotally - survived in the archives and flourished at the Inns of Court, as it does to this day
Conclusion
Thus, while “attorneys general” remains the watered-down, pedestrian plural used by the common rabble such as @TheScreamingEagles who lives in “Sheffield”, the true, unabridged, and exalted plural - “Þēod-weardcnihtas ġe-hēafodmanas et attorniones generalissimissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque”- remains very much in use in the most rarefied and arcane corridors of high English legal ritual
Current polls have the opposition Liberal-National coalition well ahead on the first vote but on two party preference only just ahead of Labor.
I wonder what they are not proud of. It's a thread exploring the question.
https://bsky.app/profile/sundersays.bsky.social/post/3lhssmrnnik2t
This needs to include, at a minimum, the UK, France, Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states.
Other nations to be invited contingent on meeting minimum defence spending and not having a veto on military action.
Europe has the economic and military capacity to be vastly superior to Russia. We don't need the US to do that, not so we need to cede any further land.
https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1889837202034795002?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
Although the farmers think they started that in July.
We should get on apace with the job before talks begin.
How many people know this? -
Moreover, at Oxford’s Bodleian Library, scholars insist that the phrase - “Þēod-weardcnihtas ġe-hēafodmanas et attorniones generalissimissimi procuratores superlativae jurisprudentiales extraordinariaeque” - is still invoked during legal convocations immediately preceding Martinmas and between the hours of elevenses and “biscuit”, such rituals only to take place within five furlongs of The House
The Order of the Garter itself is said to have a parchment containing the phrase, inscribed in Cornish gold leaf, bound in Hebridean vellum, and buried in a miniature vault under the tombstone of a weasel that once belonged to Lord Byron, in the grounds of Windsor Castle. The vault can only be opened if England have successfully forced the follow on against Australia
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1998/07/98/cabinet_reshuffle/140331.stm
Why should other countries be “invited” - every EU country should be mandated as part of continued membership that they must spend over 3 and maybe 5% gdp on defence. Why should countries like Ireland freeload knowing that everyone else would have to step in to cover their backsides.
Countries that can’t or won’t provide acceptable and useful ships or planes or troops should have to offset with extra financial contributions.
We have always lived in this reality—we just didn’t want to admit it. The difference between Biden and Trump is that Trump says out loud what Biden was thinking and doing about Ukraine.
Biden was against NATO expansion, against providing Ukraine with enough support to retake occupied territories when it was still possible, and against strong sanctions on Russia. Trump is just making it explicit.
Trump: "Like on tractors that can handle anything from hurricanes to lightning to anything. They use magnets. It's a new theory -- magnets. They're gonna lift the planes up. And it doesn't work."
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1889794323920601500?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g
Splendid city as it is, shouldn't we just stop having international peace conferences there?
Think it was the ex head of MI5.
Germany or Ireland would try to veto any action.
We need a coalition of the willing and not setting the terms based on the lowest common denominator. Other countries will likely want to join over time, but will have much less influence than it they were founding members.
5p on basic rate tax and 10p on higher rate tax? I’m sure everyone will support it as a way of keeping the country safe in an uncertain world.