Dominic Cummings confirms he was deep throat in the partygate saga – politicalbetting.com

System

Dominic Cummings confirms he was deep throat in the partygate saga – politicalbetting.com

EXCDominic Cummings reveals publicly for the first time that he was behind the Partygate stories that brought down Boris Johnson. "It’s a cleaning the sewers sort of role … you’ve got a responsibility to do it,” he told me. My @thetimes interviewhttps://t.co/US30EkHb5O pic.twitter.com/17Uk11SWYY

Read the full story here

algarkirk

First like Plymouth?

FrancisUrquhart

The problem with anything Big Dom says you never know what is truth and what is fiction.

Scott_xP

FrancisUrquhart said:

The problem with anything Big Dom says you never know what is truth and what is fiction.

And nobody cares

BartholomewRoberts

FrancisUrquhart said:

The problem with anything Big Dom says you never know what is truth and what is fiction.

He also wants everything to be about him.

So whether it was true or not is immaterial. MRDA.

TheScreamingEagles

The Telegraph is finest newspaper in the world, this is the best article ever written.

We need to talk about relegating Wales from the Six Nations

For a decade, I agreed with those who questioned if Italy deserved their spot. Wales have fallen so far it’s time to ask the same of them

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2025/02/08/we-need-to-talk-about-relegating-wales-from-six-nations/

kinabalu

Where "up" equals "anything that moves"?

algarkirk

On Dominic Cummings, as with the other mavericks running bits of the world at the moment, a good idea is to step back and ask slow and boring questions. Like this one:

In 2019 DC was appointed chief adviser and described as chief of staff to the prime minister of the UK. How well did he do in that role, and what are the permanent and beneficial fruits of his efforts to make the nation a better place? Illustrate your answer with at least six examples.

Stark_Dawning

TheScreamingEagles said:

The Telegraph is finest newspaper in the world, this is the best article ever written.

We need to talk about relegating Wales from the Six Nations

For a decade, I agreed with those who questioned if Italy deserved their spot. Wales have fallen so far it’s time to ask the same of them

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2025/02/08/we-need-to-talk-about-relegating-wales-from-six-nations/

Bit harsh. Wales were Six Nations champions nearer in time than England.

viewcode

Um, I read between 50-66%[1] of "Out" by Tim Shipman, and it was no secret that Dom was doing this. In fact (IIRC) it was explicitly stated. Given that, is this really news?

[1] It's a huge bloody book, I didn't have much time to read over Xmas, and the library only let me have it on short loan as several other people had reserved it. "The New Leviathans" on the other hand, I can renew as many times as I like. Demand, supply...

Fairliered

algarkirk said:

First like Plymouth?

And Queen’s Park! Maybe Liverpool and Rangers will play each other in the Consolation Cup.

Andy_JS

Does Dom ever consider the idea that he might need to get someone to vote for him if he wants to do stuff?

FrancisUrquhart

Spursy are losing again... can't be long until Levy gives Big Ange the sack.

Casino_Royale

Andy_JS said:

Does Dom ever consider the idea that he might need to get someone to vote for him if he wants to do stuff?

He's a misanthrope.

HYUFD

Cummings should never have been brought into No 10 by Boris, he was never going to be loyal.

Though Badenoch and her people are now as anti Boris as Cummings is so the idea of a Boris comeback for Cummings to sabotage is for the birds for the foreseeable as CCHQ will block Boris from the Conservative parliamentary candidates approved list

Alphabet_Soup

TheScreamingEagles said:

The Telegraph is finest newspaper in the world, this is the best article ever written.

We need to talk about relegating Wales from the Six Nations

For a decade, I agreed with those who questioned if Italy deserved their spot. Wales have fallen so far it’s time to ask the same of them

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2025/02/08/we-need-to-talk-about-relegating-wales-from-six-nations/

It's just a silly game invented by effete English public schoolboys who were no good at football.

(Sobs quietly into a glass of cwrw da.)

Stuartinromford

Andy_JS said:

Does Dom ever consider the idea that he might need to get someone to vote for him if he wants to do stuff?

That was why he needed Boris.

Someone who (at that point) enough people liked for him to win an election and then leave all the actual running-the-country stuff to Dom.

The flaws in that argument played out between 2019 and 2022.

JosiasJessop

algarkirk said:

On Dominic Cummings, as with the other mavericks running bits of the world at the moment, a good idea is to step back and ask slow and boring questions. Like this one:

In 2019 DC was appointed chief adviser and described as chief of staff to the prime minister of the UK. How well did he do in that role, and what are the permanent and beneficial fruits of his efforts to make the nation a better place? Illustrate your answer with at least six examples.

It's an interesting question to ask, but the answer from any of these lovely people would probably be something like: "My ideas were perfect. It's just that the idiots/traitors/system did not give me the opportunity/resources/power to implement them. It's all their fault, not my ideas!"

Witness a certain Liz Truss...

kle4

BartholomewRoberts said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

The problem with anything Big Dom says you never know what is truth and what is fiction.

He also wants everything to be about him.

It does seem to limit his effectiveness. You can be a high profile commentator, a political leader, or a fixer behind the scenes, but I don't think you can be all three.

algarkirk

Andy_JS said:

Does Dom ever consider the idea that he might need to get someone to vote for him if he wants to do stuff?

He never gives the impression of quite getting the concepts of the voter and the rule of law.

kle4

TheScreamingEagles said:

The Telegraph is finest newspaper in the world, this is the best article ever written.

We need to talk about relegating Wales from the Six Nations

For a decade, I agreed with those who questioned if Italy deserved their spot. Wales have fallen so far it’s time to ask the same of them

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2025/02/08/we-need-to-talk-about-relegating-wales-from-six-nations/

Very very few places play Rugby (or Cricket for that matter, albeit some big places), we cannot afford to relegate anyone established.

Gardenwalker

JosiasJessop said:

algarkirk said:

On Dominic Cummings, as with the other mavericks running bits of the world at the moment, a good idea is to step back and ask slow and boring questions. Like this one:

In 2019 DC was appointed chief adviser and described as chief of staff to the prime minister of the UK. How well did he do in that role, and what are the permanent and beneficial fruits of his efforts to make the nation a better place? Illustrate your answer with at least six examples.

It's an interesting question to ask, but the answer from any of these lovely people would probably be something like: "My ideas were perfect. It's just that the idiots/traitors/system did not give me the opportunity/resources/power to implement them. It's all their fault, not my ideas!"

Witness a certain Liz Truss...

I follow Cummings on X, and to be honest he makes some good points about the flailing idiocy of the British state.

The problem is, is also a flailing idiot, and dangerously destructive to boot.

Scott_xP

@FaceTheNation
Acting FBI Director Brian Driscoll wrote to staff in an internal memo that he is concerned for the safety of FBI personnel, as well as the risks posed to their families.

"These are people who chase terrorists for a living, and there's an internal email they're worried about a unique form of retribution at this moment. That gives you an indication [of] the turmoil the FBI is in at this moment,"

https://x.com/FaceTheNation/status/1888645629758361693

glw

FPT:

FrancisUrquhart said:

kamski said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

bondegezou said:

Edward Coristine/“Big Balls” is even dodgier: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2025/02/teen-on-musks-doge-team-graduated-from-the-com/

I think some people might get a shock when they find out how often these kind of people are in fact hired into security services and very sensitive roles in the big tech companies. Also they can often go onto developing really interest tech e.g George Hotz spent his youth hacking everything he could find and was immediately offered roles at all the big tech companies.

A senior person from Microsoft told me how they hired a team of Eastern Europeans who provided DDOS and hacking services as prefer to have them in the tent pissing out. Also the way these people are wired, they see things normie coders just don't.

Not really the same though is it?

It literally exactly the same. 16 year genius runs both sides of DDOS business.

Now that doesn't mean you hire him to DOGE now, but it really isn't that uncommon for these kind of teenagers to spend their youth doing this stuff and then turn out to be very useful members of society.

The issue is that they haven't been put through the wringer first. You might hire such people, but you would do due diligence and not bypass the vetting and security procedures.

If there are any malign actors out there looking to place agents in the US government then right now is the best time ever, all the normal rules seem to have evoporated as the executive branch has lost the plot.

MoonRabbit

Andy_JS said:

Does Dom ever consider the idea that he might need to get someone to vote for him if he wants to do stuff?

I don’t think Dom and the Project 25 Gang believe in democracy and accountability. They see themselves as geniuses put on this earth to rule it. 🙁

FrancisUrquhart

Gardenwalker said:

JosiasJessop said:

algarkirk said:

On Dominic Cummings, as with the other mavericks running bits of the world at the moment, a good idea is to step back and ask slow and boring questions. Like this one:

In 2019 DC was appointed chief adviser and described as chief of staff to the prime minister of the UK. How well did he do in that role, and what are the permanent and beneficial fruits of his efforts to make the nation a better place? Illustrate your answer with at least six examples.

It's an interesting question to ask, but the answer from any of these lovely people would probably be something like: "My ideas were perfect. It's just that the idiots/traitors/system did not give me the opportunity/resources/power to implement them. It's all their fault, not my ideas!"

Witness a certain Liz Truss...

I follow Cummings on X, and to be honest he makes some good points about the flailing idiocy of the British state.

The problem is, is also a flailing idiot, and dangerously destructive to boot.

Cummings makes many good points, but his solution is always burn it all down and start again just like technology companies often do. The problem is of course the state is not like a start-up that can pivot overnight or even say Jaguar, where with enough money from elsewhere, you can literally just shut up shop for 2 years while you go through a radical restructure.

MightyAlex

Gardenwalker said:

JosiasJessop said:

algarkirk said:

On Dominic Cummings, as with the other mavericks running bits of the world at the moment, a good idea is to step back and ask slow and boring questions. Like this one:

In 2019 DC was appointed chief adviser and described as chief of staff to the prime minister of the UK. How well did he do in that role, and what are the permanent and beneficial fruits of his efforts to make the nation a better place? Illustrate your answer with at least six examples.

It's an interesting question to ask, but the answer from any of these lovely people would probably be something like: "My ideas were perfect. It's just that the idiots/traitors/system did not give me the opportunity/resources/power to implement them. It's all their fault, not my ideas!"

Witness a certain Liz Truss...

I follow Cummings on X, and to be honest he makes some good points about the flailing idiocy of the British state.

The problem is, is also a flailing idiot, and dangerously destructive to boot.

If he'd actually built instead of repeatedly breaking I might have more sympathy. All this talk of modernising and reforming just seems to obscure his novel fuck ups and catastrophes.

Remembering the Gove-cummings biumvirate brings up a certain kind of nausea. Hope to never see its like again.

FrancisUrquhart

MoonRabbit said:

Andy_JS said:

Does Dom ever consider the idea that he might need to get someone to vote for him if he wants to do stuff?

I don’t think Dom and the Project 25 Gang believe in democracy and accountability. They see themselves as geniuses put on this earth to rule it. 🙁

I think there is another aspect. They believe that the whole system is now such that it does everything possible not to change and everybody within it fights to keep their own little bit of power. Thus, if you try to drain the swamp slowly, you never will. And just like trying to build anything.

There is as with so much of Big Dom ramblings some truth e.g. we see it time and time again that people fail upwards, loads of people who failed miserably during COVID have just been shifted job title but doing exactly the same thing. Big Dom in an interview a while go gave some concrete examples how some of the successes of COVID that came from outside got shut down immediately, the internal failures underwent rebranding with many of the same people still there.

The Tories found this in 2010 with quangos, there are everywhere for everything, and try closing one down and its an absolute fight. The bonfire of quangos in the end went nowhere. Now of course Starmer doesn't see a solution to a problem without a new one.

Casino_Royale

Gardenwalker said:

JosiasJessop said:

algarkirk said:

On Dominic Cummings, as with the other mavericks running bits of the world at the moment, a good idea is to step back and ask slow and boring questions. Like this one:

In 2019 DC was appointed chief adviser and described as chief of staff to the prime minister of the UK. How well did he do in that role, and what are the permanent and beneficial fruits of his efforts to make the nation a better place? Illustrate your answer with at least six examples.

It's an interesting question to ask, but the answer from any of these lovely people would probably be something like: "My ideas were perfect. It's just that the idiots/traitors/system did not give me the opportunity/resources/power to implement them. It's all their fault, not my ideas!"

Witness a certain Liz Truss...

I follow Cummings on X, and to be honest he makes some good points about the flailing idiocy of the British state.

The problem is, is also a flailing idiot, and dangerously destructive to boot.

He's ferociously bright, but someone in love with ideas and really doesn't like people - who he thinks are what stands in the way of their proper execution.

I think he's the sort of person who might give a number of people he thinks are sympathetic to him a fair shot, initially, but vociferously condemn and dump them the very first time they do anything that he feels lets him down - which is inevitable with real people.

HYUFD

'Why the turn to Blue Labour? Labour's vote is down on 2024 in all of our segments, but most of all (numerically and in %) among our Loyal National segment: A group that is more socially conservative but economically statist - and that e.g powered Boris's Red Wall wins in 2019.

Even given Labour's tilt to more urban/liberal class over the past 30 years, Loyal Nationals still made up 24% of their 2024 vote (not least because they're one of biggest groups numerically) and they were central to Labour's recovery - and now central to keeping a majority.

But Reform now lead with this group along with the Disengaged Traditionalists (whose profile is more white van man/Essex Man). These two segments along with a smaller % of Backbone Conservatives account for much of Reform's rise. Labour needs to find ways to reach them.'

https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/1888630641677185069

BartholomewRoberts

kle4 said:

Sean_F said:

Gardenwalker said:

Casino_Royale said:

Gardenwalker said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Andy_JS said:

RefUK = 200,000 members.

https://www.reformparty.uk/counter

200,231.

Just rejoice at that news.

This is becoming a genuine mass movement

Britain has Had Enough

Meaningless unless they can get them out campaigning. Compare LD membership to Tory membership (particularly in the past when the Tories had mass membership) and then look at campaigning ability. Having said that Reform have said they want to copy LD campaigning and their literature has been good, but can they get these people active. I suspect most won't be.

More members means more money, and a wider pool to choose candidates from.

I don’t doubt that in the right constituency, in by election conditions, the Lib Dem’s would out-campaign them.

But across a couple of hundred constituencies, and with their social media presence, Reform would probably do better.

Yes, the Lib Dems campaigning ability is almost legendary but it's exaggerated.

They are very good at hypertargetting a handful of seats over a period of time or in by-elections.

But they are not a national movement.

Nor are the Tories, anymore, it seems.

The Tories are facing extinction.

I think their failure to control migration during the last parliament might be terminal for them.

And Brexit, which fatally weakened their support in southern shires. All roads lead to one Boris Johnson.

Yet, I expect to see him back before the next election.

I think that the Conservatives can’t really cope (and the same is true of many Western centre-right parties), with the upper middle classes moving left, while the lower classes move right.

I hadn't thought about it in those terms, but it does seem to fit their current circumstances. And if millenials don't turn right as they are, they are in even bigger trouble.

If the Conservatives want Millenials to turn right, they really should have done more to ensure Millenials own their own home.

Tenants don't automatically turn right just because they are older.

HYUFD

The time has now come to pull out of the ECHR, says Lord Sumption.

His case: that it’s a rotten court - and the UK can protect human rights with its own laws.

https://x.com/FraserNelson/status/1888577172622762418

TheScreamingEagles

Paging Lib Dems and other bar chart specialists.

I need some help for a bar chart I need to use in an upcoming thread.

Dividing something by zero equals infinity, but how do I display infinity on a bar chart?

kinabalu

HYUFD said:

The time has now come to pull out of the ECHR, says Lord Sumption.

His case: that it’s a rotten court - and the UK can protect human rights with its own laws.

https://x.com/FraserNelson/status/1888577172622762418

We're not leaving the ECHR, the ECHR has left us?

Driver

HYUFD said:

The time has now come to pull out of the ECHR, says Lord Sumption.

His case: that it’s a rotten court - and the UK can protect human rights with its own laws.

https://x.com/FraserNelson/status/1888577172622762418

TBF, he's been saying that for a while. He's really not a fan of the "living instrument" thing.

Driver

TheScreamingEagles said:

Paging Lib Dems and other bar chart specialists.

I need some help for a bar chart I need to use in an upcoming thread.

Dividing something by zero equals infinity, but how do I display infinity on a bar chart?

That's not technically true mathematically...

FrancisUrquhart

Driver said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Paging Lib Dems and other bar chart specialists.

I need some help for a bar chart I need to use in an upcoming thread.

Dividing something by zero equals infinity, but how do I display infinity on a bar chart?

That's not technically true mathematically...

And this is why the Russian bots never stand a chance....

Stuartinromford

TheScreamingEagles said:

Paging Lib Dems and other bar chart specialists.

I need some help for a bar chart I need to use in an upcoming thread.

Dividing something by zero equals infinity, but how do I display infinity on a bar chart?

If I were doing it for real, reciprocalise all the numbers, so that infinity turns into zero, and have a really clear caption explaining what the graph shows.

If I were a Lib Dem (please let it not come to that, my ancestors would spin in their graves), turn the infinity bar into an arrow, with a label saying "winning/can't win here". Then add a clipart of two horses running.

viewcode

HYUFD said:

The time has now come to pull out of the ECHR, says Lord Sumption.

His case: that it’s a rotten court - and the UK can protect human rights with its own laws.

https://x.com/FraserNelson/status/1888577172622762418

It's not the first time he's said it. In fact he's said it so often I think it's his version of "hello". As in

HYUFD: "Good morning Lord Sumption. How are you?"
Lord Sumption: "WE MUST PULL OUT OF THE ECHR! I am fine HYFUD, how are you?"

rkrkrk

algarkirk said:

On Dominic Cummings, as with the other mavericks running bits of the world at the moment, a good idea is to step back and ask slow and boring questions. Like this one:

In 2019 DC was appointed chief adviser and described as chief of staff to the prime minister of the UK. How well did he do in that role, and what are the permanent and beneficial fruits of his efforts to make the nation a better place? Illustrate your answer with at least six examples.

I think ARIA is a good idea and I think it's great we are spending more on science.
In education, I think his/Gove's focus on phonics has been vindicated and was quite controversial.
But I can't get to six. And the list of cock-ups is pretty long!

Carnyx

TheScreamingEagles said:

Paging Lib Dems and other bar chart specialists.

I need some help for a bar chart I need to use in an upcoming thread.

Dividing something by zero equals infinity, but how do I display infinity on a bar chart?

Convert it to a big fat easy zero.

Flip the thing around, swap numerator and denominator around.

Ah - Stuartinromford got there first. But it's often a good approach in general, like with they now it has become so ambiguous. Just change the sentence round rather than spend life with a thumb up the fundament and a grump on PB.

MJW

Casino_Royale said:

Gardenwalker said:

JosiasJessop said:

algarkirk said:

On Dominic Cummings, as with the other mavericks running bits of the world at the moment, a good idea is to step back and ask slow and boring questions. Like this one:

In 2019 DC was appointed chief adviser and described as chief of staff to the prime minister of the UK. How well did he do in that role, and what are the permanent and beneficial fruits of his efforts to make the nation a better place? Illustrate your answer with at least six examples.

It's an interesting question to ask, but the answer from any of these lovely people would probably be something like: "My ideas were perfect. It's just that the idiots/traitors/system did not give me the opportunity/resources/power to implement them. It's all their fault, not my ideas!"

Witness a certain Liz Truss...

I follow Cummings on X, and to be honest he makes some good points about the flailing idiocy of the British state.

The problem is, is also a flailing idiot, and dangerously destructive to boot.

He's ferociously bright, but someone in love with ideas and really doesn't like people - who he thinks are what stands in the way of their proper execution.

I think he's the sort of person who might give a number of people he thinks are sympathetic to him a fair shot, initially, but vociferously condemn and dump them the very first time they do anything that he feels lets him down - which is inevitable with real people.

He also does a thing of picking and choosing the bits of 'disruptive' ideas he likes without embracing the whole or their caveats. Like his championing of the book 'Superforecasting' - which does including sections on slightly odd iconoclastic figures who are better at predicting things by taking unconventional positions and studying the unusual.

However, it also includes segments on the importance of drawing on people with diverse backgrounds and views as they'll be able to spot problems and opportunities a narrower group ignore won't. Which of course he ignores as it doesn't fit his great man view of the world whereby those who are the only geniuses worthy of power are people who look and sound a lot like him.

Carnyx

rkrkrk said:

algarkirk said:

On Dominic Cummings, as with the other mavericks running bits of the world at the moment, a good idea is to step back and ask slow and boring questions. Like this one:

In 2019 DC was appointed chief adviser and described as chief of staff to the prime minister of the UK. How well did he do in that role, and what are the permanent and beneficial fruits of his efforts to make the nation a better place? Illustrate your answer with at least six examples.

I think ARIA is a good idea and I think it's great we are spending more on science.
In education, I think his/Gove's focus on phonics has been vindicated and was quite controversial.
But I can't get to six. And the list of cock-ups is pretty long!

Free advertising for opticians in small boroughs in Teesside.

kle4

viewcode said:

HYUFD said:

The time has now come to pull out of the ECHR, says Lord Sumption.

His case: that it’s a rotten court - and the UK can protect human rights with its own laws.

https://x.com/FraserNelson/status/1888577172622762418

It's not the first time he's said it. In fact he's said it so often I think it's his version of "hello". As in

HYUFD: "Good morning Lord Sumption. How are you?"
Lord Sumption: "WE MUST PULL OUT OF THE ECHR! I am fine HYFUD, how are you?"

ECHR delenda est?

Battlebus

HYUFD said:

The time has now come to pull out of the ECHR, says Lord Sumption.

His case: that it’s a rotten court - and the UK can protect human rights with its own laws.

https://x.com/FraserNelson/status/1888577172622762418

Order your copy then. He's an excellent author but initially thought his conclusions were tenuous.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0D5Z31VL3

Saw him in action in the SC in a case I had a tangential connection with. Didn't like his conclusion then but, on reflection, he was spot on.

viewcode

TheScreamingEagles said:

Paging Lib Dems and other bar chart specialists.

I need some help for a bar chart I need to use in an upcoming thread.

Dividing something by zero equals infinity, but how do I display infinity on a bar chart?

Try a broken bar, like this: https://community.tableau.com/sfc/servlet.shepherd/version/renditionDownload?rendition=THUMB720BY480&versionId=0684T000001YKBW&operationContext=CHATTER&contentId=05T4T000006lKXJ&page=0

HYUFD

BartholomewRoberts said:

kle4 said:

Sean_F said:

Gardenwalker said:

Casino_Royale said:

Gardenwalker said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Andy_JS said:

RefUK = 200,000 members.

https://www.reformparty.uk/counter

200,231.

Just rejoice at that news.

This is becoming a genuine mass movement

Britain has Had Enough

Meaningless unless they can get them out campaigning. Compare LD membership to Tory membership (particularly in the past when the Tories had mass membership) and then look at campaigning ability. Having said that Reform have said they want to copy LD campaigning and their literature has been good, but can they get these people active. I suspect most won't be.

More members means more money, and a wider pool to choose candidates from.

I don’t doubt that in the right constituency, in by election conditions, the Lib Dem’s would out-campaign them.

But across a couple of hundred constituencies, and with their social media presence, Reform would probably do better.

Yes, the Lib Dems campaigning ability is almost legendary but it's exaggerated.

They are very good at hypertargetting a handful of seats over a period of time or in by-elections.

But they are not a national movement.

Nor are the Tories, anymore, it seems.

The Tories are facing extinction.

I think their failure to control migration during the last parliament might be terminal for them.

And Brexit, which fatally weakened their support in southern shires. All roads lead to one Boris Johnson.

Yet, I expect to see him back before the next election.

I think that the Conservatives can’t really cope (and the same is true of many Western centre-right parties), with the upper middle classes moving left, while the lower classes move right.

I hadn't thought about it in those terms, but it does seem to fit their current circumstances. And if millenials don't turn right as they are, they are in even bigger trouble.

If the Conservatives want Millenials to turn right, they really should have done more to ensure Millenials own their own home.

Tenants don't automatically turn right just because they are older.

There is some evidence under Kemi they are making some gains with them and GenX as Kemi promises to means test pensioner benefits and build more homes and cut tax for younger people.

The latest Yougov for example has the Conservatives on 20% with 18-24s, up 12% on the general election with that age group and up around 3% with 25-49s with gains from Labour and the LDs with under 50s.

However the Conservatives are down about 15% with over 65s since the general election and down about 3% with 50-64s due to leakage to Reform

https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/VotingIntention_MRP_250203_w.pdf

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49978-how-britain-voted-in-the-2024-general-election

rkrkrk

A lovely quote here:
"The single most important reason, really, for why I wanted to get out of the EU is I think that it will drain the poison of a lot of political debates ... UKIP and Nigel Farage would be finished. Once there's democratic control of immigration policy, immigration will go back to being a second- or third-order issue.[122]"

kle4

Battlebus said:

HYUFD said:

The time has now come to pull out of the ECHR, says Lord Sumption.

His case: that it’s a rotten court - and the UK can protect human rights with its own laws.

https://x.com/FraserNelson/status/1888577172622762418

Order your copy then. He's an excellent author but initially thought his conclusions were tenuous.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0D5Z31VL3

Saw him in action in the SC in a case I had a tangential connection with. Didn't like his conclusion then but, on reflection, he was spot on.

I liked his 'Trials of the state' and also his book 'Law in a time of crisis' but the last chapter in that one on Covid-19 was notably less well written and persuasive than the rest of it, it felt as though his passion undercut his presentation somewhat.

Gallowgate

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

kle4 said:

Sean_F said:

Gardenwalker said:

Casino_Royale said:

Gardenwalker said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Andy_JS said:

RefUK = 200,000 members.

https://www.reformparty.uk/counter

200,231.

Just rejoice at that news.

This is becoming a genuine mass movement

Britain has Had Enough

Meaningless unless they can get them out campaigning. Compare LD membership to Tory membership (particularly in the past when the Tories had mass membership) and then look at campaigning ability. Having said that Reform have said they want to copy LD campaigning and their literature has been good, but can they get these people active. I suspect most won't be.

More members means more money, and a wider pool to choose candidates from.

I don’t doubt that in the right constituency, in by election conditions, the Lib Dem’s would out-campaign them.

But across a couple of hundred constituencies, and with their social media presence, Reform would probably do better.

Yes, the Lib Dems campaigning ability is almost legendary but it's exaggerated.

They are very good at hypertargetting a handful of seats over a period of time or in by-elections.

But they are not a national movement.

Nor are the Tories, anymore, it seems.

The Tories are facing extinction.

I think their failure to control migration during the last parliament might be terminal for them.

And Brexit, which fatally weakened their support in southern shires. All roads lead to one Boris Johnson.

Yet, I expect to see him back before the next election.

I think that the Conservatives can’t really cope (and the same is true of many Western centre-right parties), with the upper middle classes moving left, while the lower classes move right.

I hadn't thought about it in those terms, but it does seem to fit their current circumstances. And if millenials don't turn right as they are, they are in even bigger trouble.

If the Conservatives want Millenials to turn right, they really should have done more to ensure Millenials own their own home.

Tenants don't automatically turn right just because they are older.

There is some evidence under Kemi they are making some gains with them and GenX as Kemi promises to means test pensioner benefits and build more homes and cut tax for younger people.

The latest Yougov for example has the Conservatives on 20% with 18-24s, up 12% on the general election with that age group and up around 3% with 25-49s with gains from Labour and the LDs with under 50s.

However the Conservatives are down about 15% with over 65s since the general election and down about 3% with 50-64s due to leakage to Reform

https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/VotingIntention_MRP_250203_w.pdf

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49978-how-britain-voted-in-the-2024-general-election

Are they weighted subsamples? EDIT I see that they are, I think.

Daveyboy1961

viewcode said:

HYUFD said:

The time has now come to pull out of the ECHR, says Lord Sumption.

His case: that it’s a rotten court - and the UK can protect human rights with its own laws.

https://x.com/FraserNelson/status/1888577172622762418

It's not the first time he's said it. In fact he's said it so often I think it's his version of "hello". As in

HYUFD: "Good morning Lord Sumption. How are you?"
Lord Sumption: "WE MUST PULL OUT OF THE ECHR! I am fine HYFUD, how are you?"

He could put it in his email signature

Gardenwalker

rkrkrk said:

A lovely quote here:
"The single most important reason, really, for why I wanted to get out of the EU is I think that it will drain the poison of a lot of political debates ... UKIP and Nigel Farage would be finished. Once there's democratic control of immigration policy, immigration will go back to being a second- or third-order issue.[122]"

Is it Casino Royale?

TheScreamingEagles

Gardenwalker said:

rkrkrk said:

A lovely quote here:
"The single most important reason, really, for why I wanted to get out of the EU is I think that it will drain the poison of a lot of political debates ... UKIP and Nigel Farage would be finished. Once there's democratic control of immigration policy, immigration will go back to being a second- or third-order issue.[122]"

Is it Casino Royale?

Dominic Cummings.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/08/10/can-boris-johnsons-brexit-guru-banish-nativist-populism-from-british-politics/

williamglenn

Reform are taking aim at Boris Johnson:

https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1888565583039344876

HYUFD

williamglenn said:

Reform are taking aim at Boris Johnson:

https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1888565583039344876

Boris is the one Tory Reform really fear, even with his non EU immigration expansion, that is why but he won't come back until after the GE at the earliest most likely as Kemi's CCHQ will block him from a seat.

MarqueeMark

williamglenn said:

Reform are taking aim at Boris Johnson:

https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1888565583039344876

Well then - war it is....

HYUFD

Gallowgate said:

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

kle4 said:

Sean_F said:

Gardenwalker said:

Casino_Royale said:

Gardenwalker said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Andy_JS said:

RefUK = 200,000 members.

https://www.reformparty.uk/counter

200,231.

Just rejoice at that news.

This is becoming a genuine mass movement

Britain has Had Enough

Meaningless unless they can get them out campaigning. Compare LD membership to Tory membership (particularly in the past when the Tories had mass membership) and then look at campaigning ability. Having said that Reform have said they want to copy LD campaigning and their literature has been good, but can they get these people active. I suspect most won't be.

More members means more money, and a wider pool to choose candidates from.

I don’t doubt that in the right constituency, in by election conditions, the Lib Dem’s would out-campaign them.

But across a couple of hundred constituencies, and with their social media presence, Reform would probably do better.

Yes, the Lib Dems campaigning ability is almost legendary but it's exaggerated.

They are very good at hypertargetting a handful of seats over a period of time or in by-elections.

But they are not a national movement.

Nor are the Tories, anymore, it seems.

The Tories are facing extinction.

I think their failure to control migration during the last parliament might be terminal for them.

And Brexit, which fatally weakened their support in southern shires. All roads lead to one Boris Johnson.

Yet, I expect to see him back before the next election.

I think that the Conservatives can’t really cope (and the same is true of many Western centre-right parties), with the upper middle classes moving left, while the lower classes move right.

I hadn't thought about it in those terms, but it does seem to fit their current circumstances. And if millenials don't turn right as they are, they are in even bigger trouble.

If the Conservatives want Millenials to turn right, they really should have done more to ensure Millenials own their own home.

Tenants don't automatically turn right just because they are older.

There is some evidence under Kemi they are making some gains with them and GenX as Kemi promises to means test pensioner benefits and build more homes and cut tax for younger people.

The latest Yougov for example has the Conservatives on 20% with 18-24s, up 12% on the general election with that age group and up around 3% with 25-49s with gains from Labour and the LDs with under 50s.

However the Conservatives are down about 15% with over 65s since the general election and down about 3% with 50-64s due to leakage to Reform

https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/VotingIntention_MRP_250203_w.pdf

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49978-how-britain-voted-in-the-2024-general-election

Are they weighted subsamples? EDIT I see that they are, I think.

They are

Daveyboy1961

TheScreamingEagles said:

Paging Lib Dems and other bar chart specialists.

I need some help for a bar chart I need to use in an upcoming thread.

Dividing something by zero equals infinity, but how do I display infinity on a bar chart?

Dividing by 0 tends to infinity not equals.

MarqueeMark

viewcode said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Paging Lib Dems and other bar chart specialists.

I need some help for a bar chart I need to use in an upcoming thread.

Dividing something by zero equals infinity, but how do I display infinity on a bar chart?

Try a broken bar, like this: https://community.tableau.com/sfc/servlet.shepherd/version/renditionDownload?rendition=THUMB720BY480&versionId=0684T000001YKBW&operationContext=CHATTER&contentId=05T4T000006lKXJ&page=0

Is that number of people in each European city who could be incited to get off their arse and riot last summer?

Stuartinromford

williamglenn said:

Reform are taking aim at Boris Johnson:

https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1888565583039344876

Odd thing to put out on a Sunday evening.

Mexicanpete

williamglenn said:

Reform are taking aim at Boris Johnson:

https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1888565583039344876

That sounds a bit like MEGA.

Gardenwalker

Stuartinromford said:

williamglenn said:

Reform are taking aim at Boris Johnson:

https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1888565583039344876

Odd thing to put out on a Sunday evening.

Perhaps they read PB.

kle4

williamglenn said:

Reform are taking aim at Boris Johnson:

https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1888565583039344876

A large section of Conservatives: They don't mean it, they are really just waiting to come home if we are nice to Nigel.

kle4

Stuartinromford said:

williamglenn said:

Reform are taking aim at Boris Johnson:

https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1888565583039344876

Odd thing to put out on a Sunday evening.

Farage and several of the top bods have been in Wiltshire today for a local conference, so plenty of officials working no doubt.

TheScreamingEagles

Stuartinromford said:

williamglenn said:

Reform are taking aim at Boris Johnson:

https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1888565583039344876

Odd thing to put out on a Sunday evening.

I am not betraying confidences here but the feelers that have been put out about a Tory/Reform pact have moved onto who would be the figurehead for the new grouping escalated as they don't want to avoid the Alliance problem with the two Davids.

Quite a few people on both sides suggested Boris Johnson but Farage wants to lead the new alliance.

Daveyboy1961

kle4 said:

Stuartinromford said:

williamglenn said:

Reform are taking aim at Boris Johnson:

https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1888565583039344876

Odd thing to put out on a Sunday evening.

Farage and several of the top bods have been in Wiltshire today for a local conference, so plenty of officials working no doubt.

Yes, poor old Trowbridge had to suffer the presence of more than the average number of wwc pub bore types telling us how NF and RT are men of the people.

rottenborough

TheScreamingEagles said:

Stuartinromford said:

williamglenn said:

Reform are taking aim at Boris Johnson:

https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1888565583039344876

Odd thing to put out on a Sunday evening.

I am not betraying confidences here but the feelers that have been put out about a Tory/Reform pact have moved onto who would be the figurehead for the new grouping escalated as they don't want to avoid the Alliance problem with the two Davids.

Quite a few people on both sides suggested Boris Johnson but Farage wants to lead the new alliance.

LOL.

And here's me with a bet on Johnson leading Tories at next GE.

Phil

Daveyboy1961 said:

viewcode said:

HYUFD said:

The time has now come to pull out of the ECHR, says Lord Sumption.

His case: that it’s a rotten court - and the UK can protect human rights with its own laws.

https://x.com/FraserNelson/status/1888577172622762418

It's not the first time he's said it. In fact he's said it so often I think it's his version of "hello". As in

HYUFD: "Good morning Lord Sumption. How are you?"
Lord Sumption: "WE MUST PULL OUT OF THE ECHR! I am fine HYFUD, how are you?"

He could put it in his email signature

“And furthermore, the ECHR delenda est.”

noneoftheabove

TheScreamingEagles said:

Stuartinromford said:

williamglenn said:

Reform are taking aim at Boris Johnson:

https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1888565583039344876

Odd thing to put out on a Sunday evening.

I am not betraying confidences here but the feelers that have been put out about a Tory/Reform pact have moved onto who would be the figurehead for the new grouping escalated as they don't want to avoid the Alliance problem with the two Davids.

Quite a few people on both sides suggested Boris Johnson but Farage wants to lead the new alliance.

The Conservatives just don't get it. It can only be Farage.

Benpointer

williamglenn said:

Reform are taking aim at Boris Johnson:

https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1888565583039344876

Return Britain To Greatness doesn't really have the same catchiness as MAGA.

IanB2

HYUFD said:

Cummings should never have been brought into No 10 by Boris, he was never going to be loyal.

Though Badenoch and her people are now as anti Boris as Cummings is so the idea of a Boris comeback for Cummings to sabotage is for the birds for the foreseeable as CCHQ will block Boris from the Conservative parliamentary candidates approved list

Good. The one thing that deffo rings true from that interview is Johnson not actually caring whether his term in office achieved anything worthwhile

noneoftheabove

Benpointer said:

williamglenn said:

Reform are taking aim at Boris Johnson:

https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1888565583039344876

Return Britain To Greatness doesn't really have the same catchiness as MAGA.

Should have gone with MEGA, there will be a crossover with fans of English independence and they won't win many seats in Scotland regardless.

IanB2

MoonRabbit said:

Andy_JS said:

Does Dom ever consider the idea that he might need to get someone to vote for him if he wants to do stuff?

I don’t think Dom and the Project 25 Gang believe in democracy and accountability. They see themselves as geniuses put on this earth to rule it. 🙁

To be fair, that’s common for almost anyone who gets to the centre of power and hangs about there for a while. It’s the principal saving grace of democracy, that it ensures any ruler is got rid of before they turn into Putin or Assad or somesuch

BlancheLivermore

As if there were one infinity

There are infinity prime numbers

There's a bigger infinity of integers

There are infinity fractions between each of the infinity integers

And there's infinity irrational numbers more than the fractions

Malmesbury

Phil said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

viewcode said:

HYUFD said:

The time has now come to pull out of the ECHR, says Lord Sumption.

His case: that it’s a rotten court - and the UK can protect human rights with its own laws.

https://x.com/FraserNelson/status/1888577172622762418

It's not the first time he's said it. In fact he's said it so often I think it's his version of "hello". As in

HYUFD: "Good morning Lord Sumption. How are you?"
Lord Sumption: "WE MUST PULL OUT OF THE ECHR! I am fine HYFUD, how are you?"

He could put it in his email signature

“And furthermore, the ECHR delenda est.”

Makes you wonder how long before the anti-ECHR types realise the lesson from the US.

{Some years later}

“In a shock judgement, the ECHR has just ruled that *not* flogging felons is a breach of their human rights.

This follows the judgement last week that not selling failed asylum seekers into slavery, also denied their human rights.

Leading the judgement, Lord Jeffreys….”

HYUFD

JL Parners Megapoll today forecasts Labour 200 seats, the Conservatives 190, Reform 102, LDs 70 and SNP 42, Greens 7 and Independents 16.

A hung parliament giving neither Labour and the LDs and SNP and Greens or the Conservatives and Reform a majority

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/pm-rails-at-complacent-liberals-as-farage-pulls-the-strings-l5pwvrfvb

williamglenn

IanB2 said:

HYUFD said:

Cummings should never have been brought into No 10 by Boris, he was never going to be loyal.

Though Badenoch and her people are now as anti Boris as Cummings is so the idea of a Boris comeback for Cummings to sabotage is for the birds for the foreseeable as CCHQ will block Boris from the Conservative parliamentary candidates approved list

Good. The one thing that deffo rings true from that interview is Johnson not actually caring whether his term in office achieved anything worthwhile

It sounds like there was a fundamental communication issue between Johnson and Cummings because Cummings lacked a sense of humour.

IanB2

Casino_Royale said:

Gardenwalker said:

JosiasJessop said:

algarkirk said:

On Dominic Cummings, as with the other mavericks running bits of the world at the moment, a good idea is to step back and ask slow and boring questions. Like this one:

In 2019 DC was appointed chief adviser and described as chief of staff to the prime minister of the UK. How well did he do in that role, and what are the permanent and beneficial fruits of his efforts to make the nation a better place? Illustrate your answer with at least six examples.

It's an interesting question to ask, but the answer from any of these lovely people would probably be something like: "My ideas were perfect. It's just that the idiots/traitors/system did not give me the opportunity/resources/power to implement them. It's all their fault, not my ideas!"

Witness a certain Liz Truss...

I follow Cummings on X, and to be honest he makes some good points about the flailing idiocy of the British state.

The problem is, is also a flailing idiot, and dangerously destructive to boot.

He's ferociously bright, but someone in love with ideas and really doesn't like people - who he thinks are what stands in the way of their proper execution.

I think he's the sort of person who might give a number of people he thinks are sympathetic to him a fair shot, initially, but vociferously condemn and dump them the very first time they do anything that he feels lets him down - which is inevitable with real people.

The trick is to try and design systems and processes and structures that get people doing the things you want naturally, without trying to control everything yourself. But that requires a depth of understanding and patience - and an aversion to control - that is almost guaranteed to be absent in anyone who has clawed their way up through politics into power. It’s also an approach that doesn’t lend itself to getting the payback of political credit from what you have actually done.

Cammo’s nudge unit was the closest we got to people seeing this, and it’s a shame that it didn’t seem to get anywhere

MarqueeMark

HYUFD said:

JL Parners Megapoll today forecasts Labour 200 seats, the Conservatives 190, Reform 102, LDs 70 and SNP 42, Greens 7 and Independents 16.

A hung parliament giving neither Labour and the LDs and SNP and Greens or the Conservatives and Reform a majority

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/pm-rails-at-complacent-liberals-as-farage-pulls-the-strings-l5pwvrfvb

Four years for people to decide that's not what they want.

IanB2

TheScreamingEagles said:

Paging Lib Dems and other bar chart specialists.

I need some help for a bar chart I need to use in an upcoming thread.

Dividing something by zero equals infinity, but how do I display infinity on a bar chart?

You bend the paper over and sellotape the top to the bottom, making a cylinder so that the bar goes all the way round without top nor bottom

Casino_Royale

kinabalu said:

HYUFD said:

The time has now come to pull out of the ECHR, says Lord Sumption.

His case: that it’s a rotten court - and the UK can protect human rights with its own laws.

https://x.com/FraserNelson/status/1888577172622762418

We're not leaving the ECHR, the ECHR has left us?

My sense is that a lot of these international institutions are either going to be neutered or marginalised over the next few years.

I'm yet to be convinced that's intrinsically a good thing, but they're either defending a liberal international order that no longer represents or responds to the concerns of everyday people, or they have been subject to power-politics capture by hostile states.

Malmesbury

IanB2 said:

Casino_Royale said:

Gardenwalker said:

JosiasJessop said:

algarkirk said:

On Dominic Cummings, as with the other mavericks running bits of the world at the moment, a good idea is to step back and ask slow and boring questions. Like this one:

In 2019 DC was appointed chief adviser and described as chief of staff to the prime minister of the UK. How well did he do in that role, and what are the permanent and beneficial fruits of his efforts to make the nation a better place? Illustrate your answer with at least six examples.

It's an interesting question to ask, but the answer from any of these lovely people would probably be something like: "My ideas were perfect. It's just that the idiots/traitors/system did not give me the opportunity/resources/power to implement them. It's all their fault, not my ideas!"

Witness a certain Liz Truss...

I follow Cummings on X, and to be honest he makes some good points about the flailing idiocy of the British state.

The problem is, is also a flailing idiot, and dangerously destructive to boot.

He's ferociously bright, but someone in love with ideas and really doesn't like people - who he thinks are what stands in the way of their proper execution.

I think he's the sort of person who might give a number of people he thinks are sympathetic to him a fair shot, initially, but vociferously condemn and dump them the very first time they do anything that he feels lets him down - which is inevitable with real people.

The trick is to try and design systems and processes and structures that get people doing the things you want naturally, without trying to control everything yourself. But that requires a depth of understanding and patience - and an aversion to control - that is almost guaranteed to be absent in anyone who has clawed their way up through politics into power. It’s also an approach that doesn’t lend itself to getting the payback of political credit from what you have actually done.

Cammo’s nudge unit was the closest we got to people seeing this, and it’s a shame that it didn’t seem to get anywhere

Part of the “nudge” thing is that it can’t claim victories….

I absolutely agree. The power to be harnessed here is culture.

Must finish Blob article.

Casino_Royale

viewcode said:

HYUFD said:

The time has now come to pull out of the ECHR, says Lord Sumption.

His case: that it’s a rotten court - and the UK can protect human rights with its own laws.

https://x.com/FraserNelson/status/1888577172622762418

It's not the first time he's said it. In fact he's said it so often I think it's his version of "hello". As in

HYUFD: "Good morning Lord Sumption. How are you?"
Lord Sumption: "WE MUST PULL OUT OF THE ECHR! I am fine HYFUD, how are you?"

Has he met @Scott_xP ?

Scott_xP

Casino_Royale said:

Has he met @Scott_xP ?

My creepy stalker is back. Get a life

MarqueeMark

Benpointer said:

williamglenn said:

Reform are taking aim at Boris Johnson:

https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1888565583039344876

Return Britain To Greatness doesn't really have the same catchiness as MAGA.

Especially as they have no policies to deliver it.

Vapid bilge.

HYUFD

MarqueeMark said:

HYUFD said:

JL Parners Megapoll today forecasts Labour 200 seats, the Conservatives 190, Reform 102, LDs 70 and SNP 42, Greens 7 and Independents 16.

A hung parliament giving neither Labour and the LDs and SNP and Greens or the Conservatives and Reform a majority

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/pm-rails-at-complacent-liberals-as-farage-pulls-the-strings-l5pwvrfvb

Four years for people to decide that's not what they want.

If true it would be the closest general election since Feb 1974 and JL Partners got the US election last year spot on in terms of Trump's winning margin and got the Tory share spot on last year and were closer to the Labour share than most polls

MoonRabbit

IanB2 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Paging Lib Dems and other bar chart specialists.

I need some help for a bar chart I need to use in an upcoming thread.

Dividing something by zero equals infinity, but how do I display infinity on a bar chart?

You bend the paper over and sellotape the top to the bottom, making a cylinder so that the bar goes all the way round without top nor bottom

There is this theory of the Moebius. A twist in the fabric of space where time becomes a loop from which there is no escape.

rottenborough

Benpointer said:

williamglenn said:

Reform are taking aim at Boris Johnson:

https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1888565583039344876

Return Britain To Greatness doesn't really have the same catchiness as MAGA.

Patrick O'Flynn
@oflynnsocial
·
6h
Anyone who thinks Reform would do a deal with Boris Johnson is either a lunatic or an idiot.
The guy has the biggest immigration wave in British history - low-skilled and culturally non-aligned - named after him.
He is OVER as a force in politics.

Foxy

IanB2 said:

Casino_Royale said:

Gardenwalker said:

JosiasJessop said:

algarkirk said:

On Dominic Cummings, as with the other mavericks running bits of the world at the moment, a good idea is to step back and ask slow and boring questions. Like this one:

In 2019 DC was appointed chief adviser and described as chief of staff to the prime minister of the UK. How well did he do in that role, and what are the permanent and beneficial fruits of his efforts to make the nation a better place? Illustrate your answer with at least six examples.

It's an interesting question to ask, but the answer from any of these lovely people would probably be something like: "My ideas were perfect. It's just that the idiots/traitors/system did not give me the opportunity/resources/power to implement them. It's all their fault, not my ideas!"

Witness a certain Liz Truss...

I follow Cummings on X, and to be honest he makes some good points about the flailing idiocy of the British state.

The problem is, is also a flailing idiot, and dangerously destructive to boot.

He's ferociously bright, but someone in love with ideas and really doesn't like people - who he thinks are what stands in the way of their proper execution.

I think he's the sort of person who might give a number of people he thinks are sympathetic to him a fair shot, initially, but vociferously condemn and dump them the very first time they do anything that he feels lets him down - which is inevitable with real people.

The trick is to try and design systems and processes and structures that get people doing the things you want naturally, without trying to control everything yourself. But that requires a depth of understanding and patience - and an aversion to control - that is almost guaranteed to be absent in anyone who has clawed their way up through politics into power. It’s also an approach that doesn’t lend itself to getting the payback of political credit from what you have actually done.

Cammo’s nudge unit was the closest we got to people seeing this, and it’s a shame that it didn’t seem to get anywhere

This surely is the point in the thread to post the Viz strip of Dom as the dogs hit puppetmaster:

https://bsky.app/profile/wrathofgodbot.bsky.social/post/3lhpdedbygk2w

SirNorfolkPassmore

TheScreamingEagles said:

Paging Lib Dems and other bar chart specialists.

I need some help for a bar chart I need to use in an upcoming thread.

Dividing something by zero equals infinity, but how do I display infinity on a bar chart?

This is very straightforward. You represent it with a tall blue bar, a similar yellow bar, a very short red bar, and the words "Labour can't win here". It's exactly the same way that you represent any statistical information of any kind, in fact.

MoonRabbit

The Chagos Deal. Actually, more I read into this Chagos stuff, more I’ve had “Edward Hyde” (from Cromwell film) switcheroo to other side.

epiphany from me is realising Mauritius leaders, dear Commonwealth Comrades, have “gamed” the UN system - not only for control over economically valuable territory they want to exploit themselves, fishing, oil and minerals, but their sponsors at UN, helping their argument get this far, are a gang of belligerent’s against UK like Putin’s Russia, doing so to make mischief and trouble for us. 😠

deal Foreign Office, Lammy and Starmer has created - to avoid a binding ruling against us at the UN - now appears to me to be bloody awful. It’s created a legal precedent that will be used by other states - no doubt backed in gaming the system by the same gang of UK enemies to try to make predatory claims on British territory elsewhere, where it’s impossible to argue now this precedent applies to Chagos, not to Cyprus or the Falklands. Even worse! the agreed deal grants duplicitous Mauritius leaders power to give fishing rights to Chinese spy vessels! Has Starmer and Lammy actually attended any top secret intelligence briefings themselves?

Consider me switched sides!
Now how do we kill this deal? And how do we manage a UN “binding ruling”?

PS first link is pure Yes Minister. in order to sweeten first deal in 1960s, Labour bunged them £3M; although US rather silent partner, I’m sure UK got unofficial sweets back from US for our work. All later legal problems and rulings date back to Labour in the 1960s not getting local agreement to separate and depopulate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagos_Archipelago_sovereignty_dispute

PPS This document has amazing title considering title should be “Diego Garcia - project code name: Dr No.”
https://lexpress.mu/sites/lexpress/files/attachments/article/2015/2015-03/2015-03-20/mu-uk_20150318_award.pdf

PPPS this link makes me think of Yes Minister again. Wasn’t premise “training for new ministers so Civil Service don’t run rings round them”? We’ve had a lot of churn on Ministers, Foreign Secs and PMs in recent years, recurring theme IMHO at first politicians buy in to the Foreign Office plan, as time passes, back away from it.
“ministers intent on a tilt to the Indo-Pacific, it was felt British resistance to a handover was hampering UK’s ability to build alliances in the region” (India?)
Don’t Cleverley’s words in this piece sound pure Sir Humphrey?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/03/uk-agrees-to-negotiate-with-mauritius-over-handover-of-chagos-islands

Northern_Al

Cummings has quite a lot in common with Musk. For example:
- they are both excessively arrogant and think they know, and are right about, everything
- they are both happy to ride roughshod over democratic and legal norms when it suits them.
And, most importantly:
- they are both complete wankers.

rottenborough

Matt Goodwin
@GoodwinMJ

Reform UK has just passed 200,000 members. Remarkable given that mass party memberships were supposed to be a thing of the past.

algarkirk

HYUFD said:

JL Parners Megapoll today forecasts Labour 200 seats, the Conservatives 190, Reform 102, LDs 70 and SNP 42, Greens 7 and Independents 16.

A hung parliament giving neither Labour and the LDs and SNP and Greens or the Conservatives and Reform a majority

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/pm-rails-at-complacent-liberals-as-farage-pulls-the-strings-l5pwvrfvb

A different word is needed. 'Forecast' is not a decent word for a projection, however clever and detailed, about what they think would have happened right now if unfulfillable contingency X (a General election) were to have occurred today.

OTOH the numbers are not completely devoid of meaning despite the impossibility of verifying them. They are not just made up. what should they be called? Trendcast?

noneoftheabove

Northern_Al said:

Cummings has quite a lot in common with Musk. For example:
- they are both excessively arrogant and think they know, and are right about, everything
- they are both happy to ride roughshod over democratic and legal norms when it suits them.
And, most importantly:
- they are both complete wankers.

$400bn difference though.

SirNorfolkPassmore

rottenborough said:

Matt Goodwin
@GoodwinMJ

Reform UK has just passed 200,000 members. Remarkable given that mass party memberships were supposed to be a thing of the past.

Curious definition of "mass membership". Tory membership peaked at about three million, and Labour at one million plus six million trades unionists. And both when population was a good deal lower.

Not to say 200k isn't a good number for RefUK to post, but it's nowhere near "mass membership".

DavidL

Driver said:

HYUFD said:

The time has now come to pull out of the ECHR, says Lord Sumption.

His case: that it’s a rotten court - and the UK can protect human rights with its own laws.

https://x.com/FraserNelson/status/1888577172622762418

TBF, he's been saying that for a while. He's really not a fan of the "living instrument" thing.

Well, that's because he is a lawyer and lawyers really don't like things that are statutes or Conventions whose meaning is open to courts to determine over time. Its fundamentally undemocratic. Its equally bad when the likes of Clarence Thomas pretends to "interpret" older texts to fit whatever people have paid him to believe at that moment, of course.

Both of them seriously overplay the proper role and duties of judges.

Casino_Royale

Daveyboy1961 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Paging Lib Dems and other bar chart specialists.

I need some help for a bar chart I need to use in an upcoming thread.

Dividing something by zero equals infinity, but how do I display infinity on a bar chart?

Dividing by 0 tends to infinity not equals.

Have you tried Two Divided by Zero?

rottenborough

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

rottenborough said:

Matt Goodwin
@GoodwinMJ

Reform UK has just passed 200,000 members. Remarkable given that mass party memberships were supposed to be a thing of the past.

Curious definition of "mass membership". Tory membership peaked at about three million, and Labour at one million plus six million trades unionists. And both when population was a good deal lower.

Not to say 200k isn't a good number for RefUK to post, but it's nowhere near "mass membership".

Corbyn had 10,000s of new members.

He won the debate.

FrancisUrquhart

MoonRabbit said:

The Chagos Deal. Actually, more I read into this Chagos stuff, more I’ve had “Edward Hyde” (from Cromwell film) switcheroo to other side.

epiphany from me is realising Mauritius leaders, dear Commonwealth Comrades, have “gamed” the UN system - not only for control over economically valuable territory they want to exploit themselves, fishing, oil and minerals, but their sponsors at UN, helping their argument get this far, are a gang of belligerent’s against UK like Putin’s Russia, doing so to make mischief and trouble for us. 😠

deal Foreign Office, Lammy and Starmer has created - to avoid a binding ruling against us at the UN - now appears to me to be bloody awful. It’s created a legal precedent that will be used by other states - no doubt backed in gaming the system by the same gang of UK enemies to try to make predatory claims on British territory elsewhere, where it’s impossible to argue now this precedent applies to Chagos, not to Cyprus or the Falklands. Even worse! the agreed deal grants duplicitous Mauritius leaders power to give fishing rights to Chinese spy vessels! Has Starmer and Lammy actually attended any top secret intelligence briefings themselves?

Consider me switched sides!
Now how do we kill this deal? And how do we manage a UN “binding ruling”?

PS first link is pure Yes Minister. in order to sweeten first deal in 1960s, Labour bunged them £3M; although US rather silent partner, I’m sure UK got unofficial sweets back from US for our work. All later legal problems and rulings date back to Labour in the 1960s not getting local agreement to separate and depopulate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagos_Archipelago_sovereignty_dispute

PPS This document has amazing title considering title should be “Diego Garcia - project code name: Dr No.”
https://lexpress.mu/sites/lexpress/files/attachments/article/2015/2015-03/2015-03-20/mu-uk_20150318_award.pdf

PPPS this link makes me think of Yes Minister again. Wasn’t premise “training for new ministers so Civil Service don’t run rings round them”? We’ve had a lot of churn on Ministers, Foreign Secs and PMs in recent years, recurring theme IMHO at first politicians buy in to the Foreign Office plan, as time passes, back away from it.
“ministers intent on a tilt to the Indo-Pacific, it was felt British resistance to a handover was hampering UK’s ability to build alliances in the region” (India?)
Don’t Cleverley’s words in this piece sound pure Sir Humphrey?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/03/uk-agrees-to-negotiate-with-mauritius-over-handover-of-chagos-islands

Lord Hermer ‘advised Caribbean nations on slavery reparations’
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/09/lord-hermer-advised-caribbean-nations-on-slavery-reparation/

rottenborough

noneoftheabove said:

Northern_Al said:

Cummings has quite a lot in common with Musk. For example:
- they are both excessively arrogant and think they know, and are right about, everything
- they are both happy to ride roughshod over democratic and legal norms when it suits them.
And, most importantly:
- they are both complete wankers.

$400bn difference though.

One also needs eye tests in small northern market towns.