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Labouring the economy – politicalbetting.com

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  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 503

    MaxPB said:

    biggles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Poor figures for Labour and it's only going to get worse. The Tories will be in the lead on the economy by the middle of next year and it's because the outgoing government handed over 1.2% growth in H1 and Labour has trashed it in record time while putting up taxes by an unnecessary amount.

    Everyone is going to feel worse off and Labour will take the blame for it as desperate as they are to try and push it on the previous government, businesses or anyone except themselves.

    These next few years are going to be painful for everyone and I think the Tories need policies that will cut spending and cut public sector employment by a substantial number. We will continue down the road to Argentina if the Tories do nothing, a tax and spend death spiral.

    Healthcare and welfare is the ballgame. It’s easier for a Labour government to reform then so I was rather hoping they would. They won’t, will they?

    My instinct is that we need to radically rethink primary care, and obviously we need a proper answer on social care.
    Social care needs a mandatory insurance provision that averages around £300 per person per year over 50. Not anything that will break the bank and subsidies available for people on low or fixed incomes. That would generate around £6bn per year which would fully fund social care at a stroke for everyone and it gets older people paying for their own care for just £10-12k lifetime insurance costs. Sure not everyone is going to need to use it but once people have it they'll wonder how we ever lived without the concept because the insurance will just handle all costs from day one without the hassle of having so sell property and with the risk so widely distributed over ~20m people there's no need for huge risk premiums as there would be now for the few people who would voluntarily purchase insurance of this kind.

    As for healthcare shoveling money at the problem isn't the answer. It's all going to get pissed up the wall and the NHS management will be back asking for another £20bn in two years. It is a money pit and junking the whole system seems like the only way out right now.
    Gosh. I agree with your first paragraph.
    I wish you'd done two posts, so that I could 'like' the first paragraph and 'dislike' the second.
    Is that maths on social care correct?
    Circa £100k/annum for care home or 24hr care at home, your £6bn is only covering 60,000 people requiring full-time care.
    Google tells me there are circa 400,000 in care homes, plus all those being cared for in the community.
    It's only £300pp pa has become £2-3k
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789
    Nigelb said:

    Maybe Watchkeeper isn't quite as rubbish after all...
    (It is rubbish.)

    How not to build a drone
    How the EU spent 16 years and €8 billion on a drone that may never fly
    https://press.airstreet.com/p/how-not-to-build-a-drone

    They should just have bought one of the new Turkish designs and fitted their own avionics.

    Haven't the EU just begun funding a "European competitor" to SpaceX? It seems destined to become a boondoggle for European aerospace companies for a rocket that will never launch.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    It was certainly v v bad when done by Boris.

    Bad enough for HIM to lose his job. But IOKIYAL....
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    Leon said:

    Fucksake. 4pm. Getting dark already

    Peak solar insolation today was 92.6 W/m2
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    I suppose that her CV actually will have been used in support of her selection as a candidate - so if anyone has a legitimate grievance, it'll be the Labour Party.

    Step forward, current party chair... er... Ellie Reeves. Ah.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,308
    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    biggles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Poor figures for Labour and it's only going to get worse. The Tories will be in the lead on the economy by the middle of next year and it's because the outgoing government handed over 1.2% growth in H1 and Labour has trashed it in record time while putting up taxes by an unnecessary amount.

    Everyone is going to feel worse off and Labour will take the blame for it as desperate as they are to try and push it on the previous government, businesses or anyone except themselves.

    These next few years are going to be painful for everyone and I think the Tories need policies that will cut spending and cut public sector employment by a substantial number. We will continue down the road to Argentina if the Tories do nothing, a tax and spend death spiral.

    Healthcare and welfare is the ballgame. It’s easier for a Labour government to reform then so I was rather hoping they would. They won’t, will they?

    My instinct is that we need to radically rethink primary care, and obviously we need a proper answer on social care.
    Social care needs a mandatory insurance provision that averages around £300 per person per year over 50. Not anything that will break the bank and subsidies available for people on low or fixed incomes. That would generate around £6bn per year which would fully fund social care at a stroke for everyone and it gets older people paying for their own care for just £10-12k lifetime insurance costs. Sure not everyone is going to need to use it but once people have it they'll wonder how we ever lived without the concept because the insurance will just handle all costs from day one without the hassle of having so sell property and with the risk so widely distributed over ~20m people there's no need for huge risk premiums as there would be now for the few people who would voluntarily purchase insurance of this kind.

    As for healthcare shoveling money at the problem isn't the answer. It's all going to get pissed up the wall and the NHS management will be back asking for another £20bn in two years. It is a money pit and junking the whole system seems like the only way out right now.
    I agree with 90% of this. There will be many people idealogically opposed to insurance, but the alternative is taxing working age people for the universal provision of care of (often rich) older people, which is a step this country cannot sustain. Even mandatory flat insurance will be regressive because it will serve to protect large inheritances, but that's a different issue imo.

    Where I disagree is the shovelling of money. I think 11% of GDP on healthcare is fine (17% in the US); I'd boost it to 13% as long as all of the extra money goes on Public Health (perhaps a bit on primary). We have to freeze secondary care in real terms before it's eats all of our tax revenue.

    I think the NHS is capable of doing that, as it did in the past.
    The problem is that the medical profession will hoover up any increase in funding for their own gain, in their selfish belief that they are immensely more worthy of large pay cheques than any of their health service colleagues.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603
    edited November 21

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    Johnson shouldn't have resigned. Brining him down was a gift to Putin delivered by useful idiots.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    edited November 21

    Nigelb said:

    Maybe Watchkeeper isn't quite as rubbish after all...
    (It is rubbish.)

    How not to build a drone
    How the EU spent 16 years and €8 billion on a drone that may never fly
    https://press.airstreet.com/p/how-not-to-build-a-drone

    They should just have bought one of the new Turkish designs and fitted their own avionics.

    What happened to Taranis? That at least looked the part. But it first flew over a decade ago I think? Not much noise since.
    It was a test bed and I think still flies. Will inform Tempest and, presumably, its unmanned wingmen.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    biggles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Poor figures for Labour and it's only going to get worse. The Tories will be in the lead on the economy by the middle of next year and it's because the outgoing government handed over 1.2% growth in H1 and Labour has trashed it in record time while putting up taxes by an unnecessary amount.

    Everyone is going to feel worse off and Labour will take the blame for it as desperate as they are to try and push it on the previous government, businesses or anyone except themselves.

    These next few years are going to be painful for everyone and I think the Tories need policies that will cut spending and cut public sector employment by a substantial number. We will continue down the road to Argentina if the Tories do nothing, a tax and spend death spiral.

    Healthcare and welfare is the ballgame. It’s easier for a Labour government to reform then so I was rather hoping they would. They won’t, will they?

    My instinct is that we need to radically rethink primary care, and obviously we need a proper answer on social care.
    Social care needs a mandatory insurance provision that averages around £300 per person per year over 50. Not anything that will break the bank and subsidies available for people on low or fixed incomes. That would generate around £6bn per year which would fully fund social care at a stroke for everyone and it gets older people paying for their own care for just £10-12k lifetime insurance costs. Sure not everyone is going to need to use it but once people have it they'll wonder how we ever lived without the concept because the insurance will just handle all costs from day one without the hassle of having so sell property and with the risk so widely distributed over ~20m people there's no need for huge risk premiums as there would be now for the few people who would voluntarily purchase insurance of this kind.

    As for healthcare shoveling money at the problem isn't the answer. It's all going to get pissed up the wall and the NHS management will be back asking for another £20bn in two years. It is a money pit and junking the whole system seems like the only way out right now.
    Gosh. I agree with your first paragraph.
    I wish you'd done two posts, so that I could 'like' the first paragraph and 'dislike' the second.
    I'm open to ideas on how to fix the NHS but there seems to be nothing forthcoming from Labour (or the Tories for that matter) though I instinctively preferred the Tory method which will give us substantially the same outcomes but for £20bn less spent.
    The Tories aren't going to get a go until that money is spent, anyway, though.
    So encouraging new ideas now would be preferable.

    Like Northern Al, I approve the social care insurance idea.
  • Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789
    Dopermean said:

    MaxPB said:

    biggles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Poor figures for Labour and it's only going to get worse. The Tories will be in the lead on the economy by the middle of next year and it's because the outgoing government handed over 1.2% growth in H1 and Labour has trashed it in record time while putting up taxes by an unnecessary amount.

    Everyone is going to feel worse off and Labour will take the blame for it as desperate as they are to try and push it on the previous government, businesses or anyone except themselves.

    These next few years are going to be painful for everyone and I think the Tories need policies that will cut spending and cut public sector employment by a substantial number. We will continue down the road to Argentina if the Tories do nothing, a tax and spend death spiral.

    Healthcare and welfare is the ballgame. It’s easier for a Labour government to reform then so I was rather hoping they would. They won’t, will they?

    My instinct is that we need to radically rethink primary care, and obviously we need a proper answer on social care.
    Social care needs a mandatory insurance provision that averages around £300 per person per year over 50. Not anything that will break the bank and subsidies available for people on low or fixed incomes. That would generate around £6bn per year which would fully fund social care at a stroke for everyone and it gets older people paying for their own care for just £10-12k lifetime insurance costs. Sure not everyone is going to need to use it but once people have it they'll wonder how we ever lived without the concept because the insurance will just handle all costs from day one without the hassle of having so sell property and with the risk so widely distributed over ~20m people there's no need for huge risk premiums as there would be now for the few people who would voluntarily purchase insurance of this kind.

    As for healthcare shoveling money at the problem isn't the answer. It's all going to get pissed up the wall and the NHS management will be back asking for another £20bn in two years. It is a money pit and junking the whole system seems like the only way out right now.
    Gosh. I agree with your first paragraph.
    I wish you'd done two posts, so that I could 'like' the first paragraph and 'dislike' the second.
    Is that maths on social care correct?
    Circa £100k/annum for care home or 24hr care at home, your £6bn is only covering 60,000 people requiring full-time care.
    Google tells me there are circa 400,000 in care homes, plus all those being cared for in the community.
    It's only £300pp pa has become £2-3k
    £6bn is the estimated funding gap for social care, not the full cost of it. Though there's a world in which insurance covers the whole cost of care in the future though it would need careful thought on how people could pay ca. £1-1.5k per year per person for insurance fees and what level of subsidy would be fair for people on low and fixed incomes.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited November 21
    Leon said:

    Has anyone else got an Apple 16 pro Max but NOT Apple Intelligence?

    I've done all the necessary things, switched to US English, got a US voice for Siri, which should apparently block any problems, but still no Apple Intelligence

    Yes, I have heard that Apple Intelligence is about as intelligent as a pigeon recently squashed under a 29 Bus but still, it would be nice to have the option. Otherwise my shiny new phone is barely distinguishable from my Apple 13, which was about 8 iterations go. Smartphones have stopped improving

    Coming in December to UK. But even then it is all a very slow roll out (of what is basically a skin around ChatGPT).

    Was trying the new ChatGPT model earlier, its worse again....although supposedly the improvements are around its making its text generation more natural (which isn't my use case).
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,308

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    Johnson shouldn't have resigned. Brining him down was a gift to Putin delivered by useful idiots.
    Boris Johnson and Brexit was a gift to Putin, and yes he should have resigned, just as Reeves should. There should not be a lower standard applied to politicians than is normally applied to the governed.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    Cookie said:

    The universal nature of the NHS will need to come under scrutiny not least when it is consuming so much of the nations income

    I know it is a religion, but the time must come where insurance plays a part and free to all, no matter how wealthy, is changed so the broadest shoulders pay their fair share

    Arguably those with the broadest shoulders already do pay their share. The rich pay far more in tax than the poor, to a larger extent than most western countries.

    Yes. An insurance model would take us in the opposite direction.

    I don't think the problem with the NHS is how it is funded.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,220
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Maybe Watchkeeper isn't quite as rubbish after all...
    (It is rubbish.)

    How not to build a drone
    How the EU spent 16 years and €8 billion on a drone that may never fly
    https://press.airstreet.com/p/how-not-to-build-a-drone

    They should just have bought one of the new Turkish designs and fitted their own avionics.

    Haven't the EU just begun funding a "European competitor" to SpaceX? It seems destined to become a boondoggle for European aerospace companies for a rocket that will never launch.
    Depends what you mean.

    Themis is the ESA project to build an equivalent to the F9 Grasshopper.

    Which is just a test system.

    ArianeGroup is very carefully trying to make sure this doesn't progress, apart from the money. While being the contractor to the project...

    Like Lockheed with the X-33, they don't want reusables, and especially don't want reusables from someone else.

    ESA are also funding various small rocket companies who are actually trying to launch things. Ariane complains bitterly, at intervals, that the money should go to them.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    That's not quite true. She touted her experience in financial services as evidence that she knew how to run an economy.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KJQctpxAqEg
  • Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    It was certainly v v bad when done by Boris.

    Bad enough for HIM to lose his job. But IOKIYAL....
    It was not Labour that ousted Boris, and even on the Tory side, lying was not the proximate cause, although it did mean the Privileges Committee would have sealed his coffin if he'd tried to return.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Maybe Watchkeeper isn't quite as rubbish after all...
    (It is rubbish.)

    How not to build a drone
    How the EU spent 16 years and €8 billion on a drone that may never fly
    https://press.airstreet.com/p/how-not-to-build-a-drone

    They should just have bought one of the new Turkish designs and fitted their own avionics.

    Haven't the EU just begun funding a "European competitor" to SpaceX? It seems destined to become a boondoggle for European aerospace companies for a rocket that will never launch.
    Now that is likely a strategic imperative for Europe. For now, they are vulnerable to a military communications and navigation blackout, should a US President turn hostile on a whim.

    They'll probably cock it up, as you predict. But there's no good technical reason they should, and it does make sense to try.

    The thrust of the article I posted is not that Europe shouldn't do stuff. It's that it shouldn't cock things up so regularly.
    Anything else is something of a counsel of despair.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    Johnson shouldn't have resigned. Brining him down was a gift to Putin delivered by useful idiots.
    You need to get over it, just like we've got over Brexit.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,293
    Fpt
    tlg86 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Arrest warrant issued for Netanyahu by ICC.

    Suspect we are witnessing the end of that particular section of international law.

    Honest question, has the ICC issued arrest warrants for the leaders of Hamas and those funding them?
    Yes to the leaders of Hamas. Don't know about funders - that might not be in their jurisdiction.
  • Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    Johnson shouldn't have resigned. Brining him down was a gift to Putin delivered by useful idiots.
    He brought himself down, a month earlier he promised the party that the lies were in the past then lo and behold he gets caught lying about Chris Pincher.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Maybe Watchkeeper isn't quite as rubbish after all...
    (It is rubbish.)

    How not to build a drone
    How the EU spent 16 years and €8 billion on a drone that may never fly
    https://press.airstreet.com/p/how-not-to-build-a-drone

    They should just have bought one of the new Turkish designs and fitted their own avionics.

    Haven't the EU just begun funding a "European competitor" to SpaceX? It seems destined to become a boondoggle for European aerospace companies for a rocket that will never launch.
    Depends what you mean.

    Themis is the ESA project to build an equivalent to the F9 Grasshopper.

    Which is just a test system.

    ArianeGroup is very carefully trying to make sure this doesn't progress, apart from the money. While being the contractor to the project...

    Like Lockheed with the X-33, they don't want reusables, and especially don't want reusables from someone else.

    ESA are also funding various small rocket companies who are actually trying to launch things. Ariane complains bitterly, at intervals, that the money should go to them.
    With a bit of vision, deregulation, and road paving, there’s a massive opportunity for our Cornish and Scottish space ports for certain types of orbit. And offering a launch option to EU firms/countries that don’t want to trek to South America feels like a decent proposition.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,308

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    That's not quite true. She touted her experience in financial services as evidence that she knew how to run an economy.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KJQctpxAqEg
    Lying to your own party is par for the course; Boris wasn't sacked for that. Indeed they seemed quite happy with it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Maybe Watchkeeper isn't quite as rubbish after all...
    (It is rubbish.)

    How not to build a drone
    How the EU spent 16 years and €8 billion on a drone that may never fly
    https://press.airstreet.com/p/how-not-to-build-a-drone

    They should just have bought one of the new Turkish designs and fitted their own avionics.

    Haven't the EU just begun funding a "European competitor" to SpaceX? It seems destined to become a boondoggle for European aerospace companies for a rocket that will never launch.
    Now that is likely a strategic imperative for Europe. For now, they are vulnerable to a military communications and navigation blackout, should a US President turn hostile on a whim.

    They'll probably cock it up, as you predict. But there's no good technical reason they should, and it does make sense to try.

    The thrust of the article I posted is not that Europe shouldn't do stuff. It's that it shouldn't cock things up so regularly.
    Anything else is something of a counsel of despair.
    Surely the primary issue with the way the EU does stuff is they biggest argument is where and how the money gets spent rather than how the end product will operate and getting the right people involved from the beginning. All of these projects are doomed to failure until there's a focus on the product rather than which country gets what money/jobs.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    Johnson shouldn't have resigned. Brining him down was a gift to Putin delivered by useful idiots.
    He brought himself down, a month earlier he promised the party that the lies were in the past then lo and behold he gets caught lying about Chris Pincher.
    No-one in the real world cares about Chris Pincher.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,220
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Maybe Watchkeeper isn't quite as rubbish after all...
    (It is rubbish.)

    How not to build a drone
    How the EU spent 16 years and €8 billion on a drone that may never fly
    https://press.airstreet.com/p/how-not-to-build-a-drone

    They should just have bought one of the new Turkish designs and fitted their own avionics.

    Haven't the EU just begun funding a "European competitor" to SpaceX? It seems destined to become a boondoggle for European aerospace companies for a rocket that will never launch.
    Now that is likely a strategic imperative for Europe. For now, they are vulnerable to a military communications and navigation blackout, should a US President turn hostile on a whim.

    They'll probably cock it up, as you predict. But there's no good technical reason they should, and it does make sense to try.

    The thrust of the article I posted is not that Europe shouldn't do stuff. It's that it shouldn't cock things up so regularly.
    Anything else is something of a counsel of despair.
    Indeed.

    Slow walking a a demonstration of basic capability from 2012, so that it slips past 2025 (Themis) is just pathetic.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Maybe Watchkeeper isn't quite as rubbish after all...
    (It is rubbish.)

    How not to build a drone
    How the EU spent 16 years and €8 billion on a drone that may never fly
    https://press.airstreet.com/p/how-not-to-build-a-drone

    They should just have bought one of the new Turkish designs and fitted their own avionics.

    Haven't the EU just begun funding a "European competitor" to SpaceX? It seems destined to become a boondoggle for European aerospace companies for a rocket that will never launch.
    Now that is likely a strategic imperative for Europe. For now, they are vulnerable to a military communications and navigation blackout, should a US President turn hostile on a whim.

    They'll probably cock it up, as you predict. But there's no good technical reason they should, and it does make sense to try.

    The thrust of the article I posted is not that Europe shouldn't do stuff. It's that it shouldn't cock things up so regularly.
    Anything else is something of a counsel of despair.
    Surely the primary issue with the way the EU does stuff is they biggest argument is where and how the money gets spent rather than how the end product will operate and getting the right people involved from the beginning. All of these projects are doomed to failure until there's a focus on the product rather than which country gets what money/jobs.
    Dunno. Playing senators off against each other works for the DoD….
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Maybe Watchkeeper isn't quite as rubbish after all...
    (It is rubbish.)

    How not to build a drone
    How the EU spent 16 years and €8 billion on a drone that may never fly
    https://press.airstreet.com/p/how-not-to-build-a-drone

    They should just have bought one of the new Turkish designs and fitted their own avionics.

    Haven't the EU just begun funding a "European competitor" to SpaceX? It seems destined to become a boondoggle for European aerospace companies for a rocket that will never launch.
    Now that is likely a strategic imperative for Europe. For now, they are vulnerable to a military communications and navigation blackout, should a US President turn hostile on a whim.

    They'll probably cock it up, as you predict. But there's no good technical reason they should, and it does make sense to try.

    The thrust of the article I posted is not that Europe shouldn't do stuff. It's that it shouldn't cock things up so regularly.
    Anything else is something of a counsel of despair.
    Surely the primary issue with the way the EU does stuff is they biggest argument is where and how the money gets spent rather than how the end product will operate and getting the right people involved from the beginning. All of these projects are doomed to failure until there's a focus on the product rather than which country gets what money/jobs.
    Absolutely.
    There are signs that some might even be starting to recognise that.
  • Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    Johnson shouldn't have resigned. Brining him down was a gift to Putin delivered by useful idiots.
    He brought himself down, a month earlier he promised the party that the lies were in the past then lo and behold he gets caught lying about Chris Pincher.
    No-one in the real world cares about Chris Pincher.
    Yes they do, it’s about integrity, look we know you will excuse sexual assault when Trump does it, but the average person hates that kind of behaviour.

    Ask yourself why Boris Johnson’s rating ended at Corbyn at GE2019 levels.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    SLAPP debate.

    Joe Powell MP talked (I'm catching) about how Mohammed Al-Fayed used legal threats to silence investigations into his behaviour.

    To date we have around 200 women making complaints about Al-Fayed abusing them.

    An account from Henry Porter about how Al-Fayed went for him, when he was reporting about him from the 1990s onward.

    It was Al-Fayed who gave £20k to Tim Smith, former MP for here in Ashfield, to ask Parliamentary Questions.

    He was like a London-based Trump.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global/2024/sep/22/remorseless-ruthless-racist-my-battle-to-expose-mohamed-al-fayed

    What a gross and dangerous pig Fayed was.
    The Tom Bower book - written more than 25 years ago - remains a must read.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789
    biggles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Maybe Watchkeeper isn't quite as rubbish after all...
    (It is rubbish.)

    How not to build a drone
    How the EU spent 16 years and €8 billion on a drone that may never fly
    https://press.airstreet.com/p/how-not-to-build-a-drone

    They should just have bought one of the new Turkish designs and fitted their own avionics.

    Haven't the EU just begun funding a "European competitor" to SpaceX? It seems destined to become a boondoggle for European aerospace companies for a rocket that will never launch.
    Now that is likely a strategic imperative for Europe. For now, they are vulnerable to a military communications and navigation blackout, should a US President turn hostile on a whim.

    They'll probably cock it up, as you predict. But there's no good technical reason they should, and it does make sense to try.

    The thrust of the article I posted is not that Europe shouldn't do stuff. It's that it shouldn't cock things up so regularly.
    Anything else is something of a counsel of despair.
    Surely the primary issue with the way the EU does stuff is they biggest argument is where and how the money gets spent rather than how the end product will operate and getting the right people involved from the beginning. All of these projects are doomed to failure until there's a focus on the product rather than which country gets what money/jobs.
    Dunno. Playing senators off against each other works for the DoD….
    But that's why SpaceX is so successful, they have short circuited all of that nonsense and now NASA and the DoD are able to tell those senators to stfu and just give the contract to Elon Musk because what he does works. I don't see there ever being an equivalent in the EU because if an Italian company has the expertise the French will veto any contract that doesn't involve them.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,308
    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    That's not quite true. She touted her experience in financial services as evidence that she knew how to run an economy.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KJQctpxAqEg
    Lying to your own party is par for the course; Boris wasn't sacked for that. Indeed they seemed quite happy with it.
    Ah, so the position of Labour supporters is now "well they had Boris Johnson, so our leaders can lie as much as they want." Marvellous. I thought Starmer claimed he was going to clean up politics. That didn't last long did it?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    MaxPB said:

    biggles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Maybe Watchkeeper isn't quite as rubbish after all...
    (It is rubbish.)

    How not to build a drone
    How the EU spent 16 years and €8 billion on a drone that may never fly
    https://press.airstreet.com/p/how-not-to-build-a-drone

    They should just have bought one of the new Turkish designs and fitted their own avionics.

    Haven't the EU just begun funding a "European competitor" to SpaceX? It seems destined to become a boondoggle for European aerospace companies for a rocket that will never launch.
    Now that is likely a strategic imperative for Europe. For now, they are vulnerable to a military communications and navigation blackout, should a US President turn hostile on a whim.

    They'll probably cock it up, as you predict. But there's no good technical reason they should, and it does make sense to try.

    The thrust of the article I posted is not that Europe shouldn't do stuff. It's that it shouldn't cock things up so regularly.
    Anything else is something of a counsel of despair.
    Surely the primary issue with the way the EU does stuff is they biggest argument is where and how the money gets spent rather than how the end product will operate and getting the right people involved from the beginning. All of these projects are doomed to failure until there's a focus on the product rather than which country gets what money/jobs.
    Dunno. Playing senators off against each other works for the DoD….
    But that's why SpaceX is so successful, they have short circuited all of that nonsense and now NASA and the DoD are able to tell those senators to stfu and just give the contract to Elon Musk because what he does works. I don't see there ever being an equivalent in the EU because if an Italian company has the expertise the French will veto any contract that doesn't involve them.
    It does make you wonder whether Airbus would be even more successful with a sane production line, for example.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,867
    edited November 21

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed. ETA and her LinkedIn profile is not necessarily the same as her CV.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,988

    Leon said:

    Fucksake. 4pm. Getting dark already

    Only just. It is light enough that you could easily read an SK Tremayne novel in a London park, aside from the cold.
    That's a bit unfair - I'm sure there are a couple of passages to stir the blood.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,308

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    edited November 21

    Leon said:

    Fucksake. 4pm. Getting dark already

    Peak solar insolation today was 92.6 W/m2
    I had 462 µmol m-2 s-1 :smile:

    [400-700nm]
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401
    Starmer wants to lock up Netanyehu.

    Cant help but think this is a mistake

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/21/netanyahu-arrest-warrant-issued-live/
  • MaxPB said:

    biggles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Maybe Watchkeeper isn't quite as rubbish after all...
    (It is rubbish.)

    How not to build a drone
    How the EU spent 16 years and €8 billion on a drone that may never fly
    https://press.airstreet.com/p/how-not-to-build-a-drone

    They should just have bought one of the new Turkish designs and fitted their own avionics.

    Haven't the EU just begun funding a "European competitor" to SpaceX? It seems destined to become a boondoggle for European aerospace companies for a rocket that will never launch.
    Now that is likely a strategic imperative for Europe. For now, they are vulnerable to a military communications and navigation blackout, should a US President turn hostile on a whim.

    They'll probably cock it up, as you predict. But there's no good technical reason they should, and it does make sense to try.

    The thrust of the article I posted is not that Europe shouldn't do stuff. It's that it shouldn't cock things up so regularly.
    Anything else is something of a counsel of despair.
    Surely the primary issue with the way the EU does stuff is they biggest argument is where and how the money gets spent rather than how the end product will operate and getting the right people involved from the beginning. All of these projects are doomed to failure until there's a focus on the product rather than which country gets what money/jobs.
    Dunno. Playing senators off against each other works for the DoD….
    But that's why SpaceX is so successful, they have short circuited all of that nonsense and now NASA and the DoD are able to tell those senators to stfu and just give the contract to Elon Musk because what he does works. I don't see there ever being an equivalent in the EU because if an Italian company has the expertise the French will veto any contract that doesn't involve them.
    It would be ironic if Musk's DOGE came for NASA and stopped it issuing contracts to SpaceX to fly to Mars. Some Federal subsidies are better than others.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    If only there were a political party not mostly populated by serial liars, we'd be in a much better state.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Starmer wants to lock up Netanyehu.

    Cant help but think this is a mistake

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/21/netanyahu-arrest-warrant-issued-live/

    Does it become moot because he would have diplomatic immunity if travelling as PM?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,897

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    As far as I know there is no obligation on the Chancellor of the Exchequer to have his or her CV scrutinised by you.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited November 21
    Almost 1m under-25s are not in work or studying, new figures show, underlining the scale of the worklessness crisis as the Government plots a crackdown on benefits.

    The number of young people who are not in employment, education or training – Neets – climbed to 946,000 in the three months to September, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS). It marks the highest number of workless 16 to 24-year-olds since 2014, and is up by 9pc from 871,000 a year earlier. The number of young Neets has risen by almost one quarter since the pandemic. Some 13.2pc of all 16 to 24-year-olds are now classed as Neets, which is also the highest percentage in a decade.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/11/21/1m-under-25s-out-of-work-labour-benefits-crackdown/
  • Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    I really don't care if Reeves stays or goes. Her budget seems an ad hoc collection of too clever by half wheezes and wishful thinking (cf George Osborne). But it is on this basis she should be judged, not on irrelevant LinkedIn posts.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375

    Starmer wants to lock up Netanyehu.

    Cant help but think this is a mistake

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/21/netanyahu-arrest-warrant-issued-live/

    It is a mistake. Because that's not what you've linked to says at all.
  • Starmer wants to lock up Netanyehu.

    Cant help but think this is a mistake

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/21/netanyahu-arrest-warrant-issued-live/

    Nah, it will be popular, I’ve seen the polling.

    The International Criminal Court has issued an arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity, something the majority of Britons (54%) supported when asked in the summer


    https://x.com/yougov/status/1859572323851915532?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    biggles said:

    Starmer wants to lock up Netanyehu.

    Cant help but think this is a mistake

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/21/netanyahu-arrest-warrant-issued-live/

    Does it become moot because he would have diplomatic immunity if travelling as PM?
    All you can conclude is that Alanbrooke can't read simple English. Or he's a shameless liar.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    As far as I know there is no obligation on the Chancellor of the Exchequer to have his or her CV scrutinised by you.
    So who is the checker of the CV of the Exchequer? And when they quit do they become the new ex-checker?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,220

    MaxPB said:

    biggles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Maybe Watchkeeper isn't quite as rubbish after all...
    (It is rubbish.)

    How not to build a drone
    How the EU spent 16 years and €8 billion on a drone that may never fly
    https://press.airstreet.com/p/how-not-to-build-a-drone

    They should just have bought one of the new Turkish designs and fitted their own avionics.

    Haven't the EU just begun funding a "European competitor" to SpaceX? It seems destined to become a boondoggle for European aerospace companies for a rocket that will never launch.
    Now that is likely a strategic imperative for Europe. For now, they are vulnerable to a military communications and navigation blackout, should a US President turn hostile on a whim.

    They'll probably cock it up, as you predict. But there's no good technical reason they should, and it does make sense to try.

    The thrust of the article I posted is not that Europe shouldn't do stuff. It's that it shouldn't cock things up so regularly.
    Anything else is something of a counsel of despair.
    Surely the primary issue with the way the EU does stuff is they biggest argument is where and how the money gets spent rather than how the end product will operate and getting the right people involved from the beginning. All of these projects are doomed to failure until there's a focus on the product rather than which country gets what money/jobs.
    Dunno. Playing senators off against each other works for the DoD….
    But that's why SpaceX is so successful, they have short circuited all of that nonsense and now NASA and the DoD are able to tell those senators to stfu and just give the contract to Elon Musk because what he does works. I don't see there ever being an equivalent in the EU because if an Italian company has the expertise the French will veto any contract that doesn't involve them.
    It would be ironic if Musk's DOGE came for NASA and stopped it issuing contracts to SpaceX to fly to Mars. Some Federal subsidies are better than others.
    There are no current NASA contracts with SpaceX to fly anything to Mars.

    One recent contract from NASA to SpaceX was to use Falcon Heavy to send the Europa Clipper space probe on its way to.... Europa. The estimate is that it was $2 Billion cheaper than using the SLS rocket. Plus the vibrational environment was lower (no solids), so further money was saved on not needing to harder the Europa Clipper.
  • biggles said:

    Starmer wants to lock up Netanyehu.

    Cant help but think this is a mistake

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/21/netanyahu-arrest-warrant-issued-live/

    Does it become moot because he would have diplomatic immunity if travelling as PM?
    It might become moot because the Israel rozzers will nick him as soon as he resigns.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,308
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    As far as I know there is no obligation on the Chancellor of the Exchequer to have his or her CV scrutinised by you.
    And as far as I am aware you are still a twat.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,220

    Almost 1m under-25s are not in work or studying, new figures show, underlining the scale of the worklessness crisis as the Government plots a crackdown on benefits.

    The number of young people who are not in employment, education or training – Neets – climbed to 946,000 in the three months to September, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS). It marks the highest number of workless 16 to 24-year-olds since 2014, and is up by 9pc from 871,000 a year earlier. The number of young Neets has risen by almost one quarter since the pandemic. Some 13.2pc of all 16 to 24-year-olds are now classed as Neets, which is also the highest percentage in a decade.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/11/21/1m-under-25s-out-of-work-labour-benefits-crackdown/

    There was an article, the other day, about the full scale collapse in educational attendance among some groups. Parents not sending their children to school. This has surged since the pandemic. Some of it is related to a massive surge in anxiety among young children. But a lot is parents simply not valuing education.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    Starmer wants to lock up Netanyehu.

    Cant help but think this is a mistake

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/21/netanyahu-arrest-warrant-issued-live/

    Nah, it will be popular, I’ve seen the polling.

    The International Criminal Court has issued an arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity, something the majority of Britons (54%) supported when asked in the summer


    https://x.com/yougov/status/1859572323851915532?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g
    It's not about popularity. It's more to do with the ICC being more political than most courts, Once he goes off on this route it's only a matter of time before he's going to get bitten on the butt. It shows Starmer hasnt got the common sense to look past a legal problem.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited November 21

    Almost 1m under-25s are not in work or studying, new figures show, underlining the scale of the worklessness crisis as the Government plots a crackdown on benefits.

    The number of young people who are not in employment, education or training – Neets – climbed to 946,000 in the three months to September, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS). It marks the highest number of workless 16 to 24-year-olds since 2014, and is up by 9pc from 871,000 a year earlier. The number of young Neets has risen by almost one quarter since the pandemic. Some 13.2pc of all 16 to 24-year-olds are now classed as Neets, which is also the highest percentage in a decade.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/11/21/1m-under-25s-out-of-work-labour-benefits-crackdown/

    There was an article, the other day, about the full scale collapse in educational attendance among some groups. Parents not sending their children to school. This has surged since the pandemic. Some of it is related to a massive surge in anxiety among young children. But a lot is parents simply not valuing education.
    The BBC ran an article the other day about how exclusions had increased with their spin being it was schools / teachers not understanding SEND kids.

    Speaking to teachers I know they say the kids have been far worse behaved and inability to focus on doing any work since COVID such they have now deployed much stricter behaviour policies and they have to be particular tough on the kids coming from primary school.

    Doesn't bode well for another 5-10 years down the line if schools can't turn it around.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773

    Almost 1m under-25s are not in work or studying, new figures show, underlining the scale of the worklessness crisis as the Government plots a crackdown on benefits.

    The number of young people who are not in employment, education or training – Neets – climbed to 946,000 in the three months to September, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS). It marks the highest number of workless 16 to 24-year-olds since 2014, and is up by 9pc from 871,000 a year earlier. The number of young Neets has risen by almost one quarter since the pandemic. Some 13.2pc of all 16 to 24-year-olds are now classed as Neets, which is also the highest percentage in a decade.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/11/21/1m-under-25s-out-of-work-labour-benefits-crackdown/

    There was an article, the other day, about the full scale collapse in educational attendance among some groups. Parents not sending their children to school. This has surged since the pandemic. Some of it is related to a massive surge in anxiety among young children. But a lot is parents simply not valuing education.
    It was always true that a lot of parents didn't value education. What they took from the pandemic was that government didn't value education either.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,308
    Chris said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    If only there were a political party not mostly populated by serial liars, we'd be in a much better state.
    I am not sure that is fair. There are many politicians of all stripes who are fundamentally honest. I think the vast majority of them would think that blatantly lying on a CV was not a sensible thing to do.

    As an employer I consider it fraud, which is what it is. Any employee of any company I was involved with who did such a thing would receive a full disciplinary procedure for what Reeves has done.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    edited November 21

    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    That's not quite true. She touted her experience in financial services as evidence that she knew how to run an economy.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KJQctpxAqEg
    Lying to your own party is par for the course; Boris wasn't sacked for that. Indeed they seemed quite happy with it.
    Ah, so the position of Labour supporters is now "well they had Boris Johnson, so our leaders can lie as much as they want." Marvellous. I thought Starmer claimed he was going to clean up politics. That didn't last long did it?
    I'm not a Labour supporter, and don't particularly care for either Johnson or Reeves.
    But you were comparing lying to the Commons with lying to your party - which are definitely not the same thing.
  • Starmer wants to lock up Netanyehu.

    Cant help but think this is a mistake

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/21/netanyahu-arrest-warrant-issued-live/

    Nah, it will be popular, I’ve seen the polling.

    The International Criminal Court has issued an arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity, something the majority of Britons (54%) supported when asked in the summer


    https://x.com/yougov/status/1859572323851915532?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g
    It's not about popularity. It's more to do with the ICC being more political than most courts, Once he goes off on this route it's only a matter of time before he's going to get bitten on the butt. It shows Starmer hasnt got the common sense to look past a legal problem.
    History has shown that things always improve when lawyers get involved.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,308

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    I really don't care if Reeves stays or goes. Her budget seems an ad hoc collection of too clever by half wheezes and wishful thinking (cf George Osborne). But it is on this basis she should be judged, not on irrelevant LinkedIn posts.
    She, like all politician should be judged on integrity. She has none.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    Starmer wants to lock up Netanyehu.

    Cant help but think this is a mistake

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/21/netanyahu-arrest-warrant-issued-live/

    Nah, it will be popular, I’ve seen the polling.

    The International Criminal Court has issued an arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity, something the majority of Britons (54%) supported when asked in the summer


    https://x.com/yougov/status/1859572323851915532?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g
    It's not about popularity. It's more to do with the ICC being more political than most courts, Once he goes off on this route it's only a matter of time before he's going to get bitten on the butt. It shows Starmer hasnt got the common sense to look past a legal problem.
    History has shown that things always improve when lawyers get involved.
    The french revolution says otherwise
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,308
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    That's not quite true. She touted her experience in financial services as evidence that she knew how to run an economy.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KJQctpxAqEg
    Lying to your own party is par for the course; Boris wasn't sacked for that. Indeed they seemed quite happy with it.
    Ah, so the position of Labour supporters is now "well they had Boris Johnson, so our leaders can lie as much as they want." Marvellous. I thought Starmer claimed he was going to clean up politics. That didn't last long did it?
    I'm not a Labour supporter, and don't particularly care for either Johnson or Reeves.
    But you were comparing lying to the Commons with lying to your party - which are definitely not the same thing.
    CV lies are "fraud by misrepresentation". It does not matter whether to her party or if it was an application for a job serving Macdonalds. She is a liar and a fraud. And extremely dumb to have done it. She should resign or be sacked.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    I really don't care if Reeves stays or goes. Her budget seems an ad hoc collection of too clever by half wheezes and wishful thinking (cf George Osborne). But it is on this basis she should be judged, not on irrelevant LinkedIn posts.
    She, like all politician should be judged on integrity. She has none.
    Surely there are other criteria, otherwise you'd have to say that Estelle Morris was the best minister of the last 50 years.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,897
    biggles said:

    Starmer wants to lock up Netanyehu.

    Cant help but think this is a mistake

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/21/netanyahu-arrest-warrant-issued-live/

    Does it become moot because he would have diplomatic immunity if travelling as PM?
    Not according to Geoffrey Robertson. Though apparently any action against Netanyahu is anti Semitic according to the Israelis so going off Starmers past actions that wiill certainly be a get out of jail free card with this government
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    Starmer wants to lock up Netanyehu.

    Cant help but think this is a mistake

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/21/netanyahu-arrest-warrant-issued-live/

    Nah, it will be popular, I’ve seen the polling.

    The International Criminal Court has issued an arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity, something the majority of Britons (54%) supported when asked in the summer


    https://x.com/yougov/status/1859572323851915532?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g
    Talking about polling upsetting some of us because it's counterintuitive to them ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/21/majority-back-british-museum-exhibit-on-transatlantic-slave-trade
  • Carnyx said:

    Starmer wants to lock up Netanyehu.

    Cant help but think this is a mistake

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/21/netanyahu-arrest-warrant-issued-live/

    Nah, it will be popular, I’ve seen the polling.

    The International Criminal Court has issued an arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity, something the majority of Britons (54%) supported when asked in the summer


    https://x.com/yougov/status/1859572323851915532?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g
    Talking about polling upsetting some of us because it's counterintuitive to them ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/21/majority-back-british-museum-exhibit-on-transatlantic-slave-trade
    If I do a thread on that I will have to put TRIGGER WARNING in the headline.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401
    Roger said:


    biggles said:

    Starmer wants to lock up Netanyehu.

    Cant help but think this is a mistake

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/21/netanyahu-arrest-warrant-issued-live/

    Does it become moot because he would have diplomatic immunity if travelling as PM?
    Not according to Geoffrey Robertson. Though apparently any action against Netanyahu is anti Semitic according to the Israelis so going off Starmers past actions that wiill certainly be a get out of jail free card with this government
    You're a Mossad agent and this is how you try to cover your tracks.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,897
    edited November 21

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    I really don't care if Reeves stays or goes. Her budget seems an ad hoc collection of too clever by half wheezes and wishful thinking (cf George Osborne). But it is on this basis she should be judged, not on irrelevant LinkedIn posts.
    She, like all politician should be judged on integrity. She has none.
    Perhaps we could sue Johnson or better still reverse some of his more egregious actions during his time in office?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    When I was at Goldman Sachs in the late 1990s, there was a lady who had worked her way from temp to secretary to financial analyst to associate.

    Then one day she was called into the office of the partner in charge of equity research and fired for cause.

    She'd lied about her qualification on the CV she had given the temping agency.

    We were all a bit shocked: had she not been effectively promoted three times based solely on her ability, and nothing to do with her CV? But it didn't matter. Integrity is simply more important. If you can't trust someone's word, they can't work for you.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401
    rcs1000 said:

    When I was at Goldman Sachs in the late 1990s, there was a lady who had worked her way from temp to secretary to financial analyst to associate.

    Then one day she was called into the office of the partner in charge of equity research and fired for cause.

    She'd lied about her qualification on the CV she had given the temping agency.

    We were all a bit shocked: had she not been effectively promoted three times based solely on her ability, and nothing to do with her CV? But it didn't matter. Integrity is simply more important. If you can't trust someone's word, they can't work for you.

    FFS they.re bankers, what has integrity got to do with it ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    I really don't care if Reeves stays or goes. Her budget seems an ad hoc collection of too clever by half wheezes and wishful thinking (cf George Osborne). But it is on this basis she should be judged, not on irrelevant LinkedIn posts.
    She, like all politician should be judged on integrity. She has none.
    Boris Johnson's CV was also known to be innacurate. Perhaps we could sue him or better still reverse some of his more egregious actions during his time in office.
    Yes, all those visas he recklessly issued shouldn’t be extended.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742

    Chris said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    If only there were a political party not mostly populated by serial liars, we'd be in a much better state.
    I am not sure that is fair. There are many politicians of all stripes who are fundamentally honest. I think the vast majority of them would think that blatantly lying on a CV was not a sensible thing to do.

    As an employer I consider it fraud, which is what it is. Any employee of any company I was involved with who did such a thing would receive a full disciplinary procedure for what Reeves has done.
    As it happens, I know someone who worked with Reeves, He described what she was doing at the time as 'mortgage planning, interest rates, housing market sizing, volumes, spreads etc'. To describe that as the work of an 'economist' seems reasonable to me. It's not a protected word.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    Carnyx said:

    Starmer wants to lock up Netanyehu.

    Cant help but think this is a mistake

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/21/netanyahu-arrest-warrant-issued-live/

    Nah, it will be popular, I’ve seen the polling.

    The International Criminal Court has issued an arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity, something the majority of Britons (54%) supported when asked in the summer


    https://x.com/yougov/status/1859572323851915532?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g
    Talking about polling upsetting some of us because it's counterintuitive to them ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/21/majority-back-british-museum-exhibit-on-transatlantic-slave-trade
    If I do a thread on that I will have to put TRIGGER WARNING in the headline.
    Not logical. No point. It'd be too woke for them in itself. So they'd have to ignore it.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,308
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    I really don't care if Reeves stays or goes. Her budget seems an ad hoc collection of too clever by half wheezes and wishful thinking (cf George Osborne). But it is on this basis she should be judged, not on irrelevant LinkedIn posts.
    She, like all politician should be judged on integrity. She has none.
    Boris Johnson's CV was also known to be innacurate. Perhaps we could sue him or better still reverse some of his more egregious actions during his time in office.
    As a Labour Party supporter your defence is that Labour leaders are no worse than Boris Johnson? I know that you are a little intellectually challenged but this is not really a very high bar of integrity. I did loathe, and still do loathe Boris Johnson. He is a serial liar and a clown. I was rather hoping that while we could predict the stupidity of an incoming Labour government, we could at least hope that they might have a higher level of honesty than their predecessors. Reeves has committed fraud by false representation. She should resign.

    Labour supporters that do not agree with this have no moral high ground than those who defended Johnson.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    Chris said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    If only there were a political party not mostly populated by serial liars, we'd be in a much better state.
    I am not sure that is fair. There are many politicians of all stripes who are fundamentally honest. I think the vast majority of them would think that blatantly lying on a CV was not a sensible thing to do.

    As an employer I consider it fraud, which is what it is. Any employee of any company I was involved with who did such a thing would receive a full disciplinary procedure for what Reeves has done.
    As it happens, I know someone who worked with Reeves, He described what she was doing at the time as 'mortgage planning, interest rates, housing market sizing, volumes, spreads etc'. To describe that as the work of an 'economist' seems reasonable to me. It's not a protected word.
    It's not a profession or even a trade. At best it is a description. "housing market sizing" sounds like classic economist jobbing.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,308

    Chris said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    If only there were a political party not mostly populated by serial liars, we'd be in a much better state.
    I am not sure that is fair. There are many politicians of all stripes who are fundamentally honest. I think the vast majority of them would think that blatantly lying on a CV was not a sensible thing to do.

    As an employer I consider it fraud, which is what it is. Any employee of any company I was involved with who did such a thing would receive a full disciplinary procedure for what Reeves has done.
    As it happens, I know someone who worked with Reeves, He described what she was doing at the time as 'mortgage planning, interest rates, housing market sizing, volumes, spreads etc'. To describe that as the work of an 'economist' seems reasonable to me. It's not a protected word.
    That was not the only infringement. If it were it would simply be a modest embellishment, which while possibly a little dishonest would not fall into the fraudulent category
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    Starmer wants to lock up Netanyehu.

    Cant help but think this is a mistake

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/21/netanyahu-arrest-warrant-issued-live/

    Netanhayu has had more than enough benefit of the doubt. He has a right to lead his government in war. He does not have the right to implement policies which are war crimes. And forced starvation, ethnic cleansing and the targeting of civilians are war crimes. Consequences follow.

    FWIW, I subscribe to a (legally dodgy) principle of necessary proportionality when it comes to actions beyond the law. In other words, if your enemy breaks international law and gains an advantage from doing so, the country acted against in such manner must be able to make good that disadvantage. You do not lose a war for the sake of good form when your enemy rejects the principles you are binding yourself to, to begin with. But that is very much not the situation in Gaza.
    Time will tell if Starmer has called this right but he's aligning himself with some strange bedfellows and at some point they will turn on his government.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    Dan Neidle has put out a fairly lengthy post on the budget. Note to @Richard_Tyndall and the Daily Telegraph he is pretty excoriating about the whole thing - certainly not acting the role of loyal Labour apparatchik.

    https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/11/21/the-budget-a-missed-opportunity/

    He is particularly cross about the NI changes. I still can't get my head around why they dropped the lower income threshold - an extremely regressive tax change if you assume the impact gets at least partly passed on into pay.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    That's not quite true. She touted her experience in financial services as evidence that she knew how to run an economy.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KJQctpxAqEg
    Lying to your own party is par for the course; Boris wasn't sacked for that. Indeed they seemed quite happy with it.
    Ah, so the position of Labour supporters is now "well they had Boris Johnson, so our leaders can lie as much as they want." Marvellous. I thought Starmer claimed he was going to clean up politics. That didn't last long did it?
    I'm not a Labour supporter, and don't particularly care for either Johnson or Reeves.
    But you were comparing lying to the Commons with lying to your party - which are definitely not the same thing.
    CV lies are "fraud by misrepresentation". It does not matter whether to her party or if it was an application for a job serving Macdonalds. She is a liar and a fraud. And extremely dumb to have done it. She should resign or be sacked.
    Ah - so the distinction is that members of the last Tory government never lied on a CV.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213

    Chris said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    If only there were a political party not mostly populated by serial liars, we'd be in a much better state.
    I am not sure that is fair. There are many politicians of all stripes who are fundamentally honest. I think the vast majority of them would think that blatantly lying on a CV was not a sensible thing to do.

    As an employer I consider it fraud, which is what it is. Any employee of any company I was involved with who did such a thing would receive a full disciplinary procedure for what Reeves has done.
    As it happens, I know someone who worked with Reeves, He described what she was doing at the time as 'mortgage planning, interest rates, housing market sizing, volumes, spreads etc'. To describe that as the work of an 'economist' seems reasonable to me. It's not a protected word.
    That would make me an economist.

    I'm not an economist.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,125
    TimS said:

    Dan Neidle has put out a fairly lengthy post on the budget. Note to @Richard_Tyndall and the Daily Telegraph he is pretty excoriating about the whole thing - certainly not acting the role of loyal Labour apparatchik.

    https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/11/21/the-budget-a-missed-opportunity/

    He is particularly cross about the NI changes. I still can't get my head around why they dropped the lower income threshold - an extremely regressive tax change if you assume the impact gets at least partly passed on into pay.

    I suspect the Treasury wonks love low thresholds because they drag far more people into taxes....
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,293
    TimS said:

    Dan Neidle has put out a fairly lengthy post on the budget. Note to @Richard_Tyndall and the Daily Telegraph he is pretty excoriating about the whole thing - certainly not acting the role of loyal Labour apparatchik.

    https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/11/21/the-budget-a-missed-opportunity/

    He is particularly cross about the NI changes. I still can't get my head around why they dropped the lower income threshold - an extremely regressive tax change if you assume the impact gets at least partly passed on into pay.

    Powerful analysis. I had not realised how much extra 1% on income tax could raise. My hope is that Labour will get to the pro growth stuff he talks about, but if they feel unpopular/under attack they may duck those big decisions. They've already used the... "We inherited a crock of shit" card... can they do it again next year? At some point it stops working...
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    That's not quite true. She touted her experience in financial services as evidence that she knew how to run an economy.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KJQctpxAqEg
    Lying to your own party is par for the course; Boris wasn't sacked for that. Indeed they seemed quite happy with it.
    Ah, so the position of Labour supporters is now "well they had Boris Johnson, so our leaders can lie as much as they want." Marvellous. I thought Starmer claimed he was going to clean up politics. That didn't last long did it?
    I'm not a Labour supporter, and don't particularly care for either Johnson or Reeves.
    But you were comparing lying to the Commons with lying to your party - which are definitely not the same thing.
    CV lies are "fraud by misrepresentation". It does not matter whether to her party or if it was an application for a job serving Macdonalds. She is a liar and a fraud. And extremely dumb to have done it. She should resign or be sacked.
    Ah - so the distinction is that members of the last Tory government never lied on a CV.
    All politicians lie. But I'd say it's probably not a good idea for someone who has lied about being an economist becoming Chancellor.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,897

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    I really don't care if Reeves stays or goes. Her budget seems an ad hoc collection of too clever by half wheezes and wishful thinking (cf George Osborne). But it is on this basis she should be judged, not on irrelevant LinkedIn posts.
    She, like all politician should be judged on integrity. She has none.
    Boris Johnson's CV was also known to be innacurate. Perhaps we could sue him or better still reverse some of his more egregious actions during his time in office.
    Yes, all those visas he recklessly issued shouldn’t be extended.
    I was thinking of all things Brexit. Perhaps we could subpoena the Red Bus to appear in court
  • Stocky said:

    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    That's not quite true. She touted her experience in financial services as evidence that she knew how to run an economy.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KJQctpxAqEg
    Lying to your own party is par for the course; Boris wasn't sacked for that. Indeed they seemed quite happy with it.
    Ah, so the position of Labour supporters is now "well they had Boris Johnson, so our leaders can lie as much as they want." Marvellous. I thought Starmer claimed he was going to clean up politics. That didn't last long did it?
    I'm not a Labour supporter, and don't particularly care for either Johnson or Reeves.
    But you were comparing lying to the Commons with lying to your party - which are definitely not the same thing.
    CV lies are "fraud by misrepresentation". It does not matter whether to her party or if it was an application for a job serving Macdonalds. She is a liar and a fraud. And extremely dumb to have done it. She should resign or be sacked.
    Ah - so the distinction is that members of the last Tory government never lied on a CV.
    All politicians lie. But I'd say it's probably not a good idea for someone who has lied about being an economist becoming Chancellor.
    "I always lie. In fact, I am lying to you now."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited November 21
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    I really don't care if Reeves stays or goes. Her budget seems an ad hoc collection of too clever by half wheezes and wishful thinking (cf George Osborne). But it is on this basis she should be judged, not on irrelevant LinkedIn posts.
    She, like all politician should be judged on integrity. She has none.
    Boris Johnson's CV was also known to be innacurate. Perhaps we could sue him or better still reverse some of his more egregious actions during his time in office.
    Yes, all those visas he recklessly issued shouldn’t be extended.
    I was thinking of all things Brexit. Perhaps we could subpoena the Red Bus to appear in court
    The funny thing is, the NHS did get £350 million a week more....and more on top.

    Spending on NHS went from £140bn a year to over £180bn before last budget.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,308
    Chris said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    That's not quite true. She touted her experience in financial services as evidence that she knew how to run an economy.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KJQctpxAqEg
    Lying to your own party is par for the course; Boris wasn't sacked for that. Indeed they seemed quite happy with it.
    Ah, so the position of Labour supporters is now "well they had Boris Johnson, so our leaders can lie as much as they want." Marvellous. I thought Starmer claimed he was going to clean up politics. That didn't last long did it?
    I'm not a Labour supporter, and don't particularly care for either Johnson or Reeves.
    But you were comparing lying to the Commons with lying to your party - which are definitely not the same thing.
    CV lies are "fraud by misrepresentation". It does not matter whether to her party or if it was an application for a job serving Macdonalds. She is a liar and a fraud. And extremely dumb to have done it. She should resign or be sacked.
    Ah - so the distinction is that members of the last Tory government never lied on a CV.
    I really have no idea, and I don't care. They are no longer in government you dope. We are talking about the current CoE who has been dishonest. A member of a party that quite correctly called out Johnson's lying and made much political capital from it. She should resign, but she clearly has no integrity so she will not. If Starmer does not sack her he condones dishonesty.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,293

    Chris said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    If only there were a political party not mostly populated by serial liars, we'd be in a much better state.
    I am not sure that is fair. There are many politicians of all stripes who are fundamentally honest. I think the vast majority of them would think that blatantly lying on a CV was not a sensible thing to do.

    As an employer I consider it fraud, which is what it is. Any employee of any company I was involved with who did such a thing would receive a full disciplinary procedure for what Reeves has done.
    As it happens, I know someone who worked with Reeves, He described what she was doing at the time as 'mortgage planning, interest rates, housing market sizing, volumes, spreads etc'. To describe that as the work of an 'economist' seems reasonable to me. It's not a protected word.
    That was not the only infringement. If it were it would simply be a modest embellishment, which while possibly a little dishonest would not fall into the fraudulent category
    I don't subscribe to the telegraph. What exactly is the lie she has told?
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    edited November 21

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    I really don't care if Reeves stays or goes. Her budget seems an ad hoc collection of too clever by half wheezes and wishful thinking (cf George Osborne). But it is on this basis she should be judged, not on irrelevant LinkedIn posts.
    She, like all politician should be judged on integrity. She has none.
    Boris Johnson's CV was also known to be innacurate. Perhaps we could sue him or better still reverse some of his more egregious actions during his time in office.
    Yes, all those visas he recklessly issued shouldn’t be extended.
    I was thinking of all things Brexit. Perhaps we could subpoena the Red Bus to appear in court
    The funny thing is, the NHS did get £350 million a week more....and more on top.

    Spending on NHS went from £140bn a year to over £180bn before last budget.
    And in real terms?

    Edit:

    Just perused the web:

    'The Long Term Plan funding settlement set out annual average real-terms increases to the NHS budget for day-to-day spending of 3.4% a year between 2019/20 and 2023/24, measured against the GDP inflation metric, with a profile that saw slightly faster funding growth in the first and last years, and translated into average annual increases of 3% on the NHS inflation measure.'

    https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/nhs-spending-plans-and-reality-over-the-past-10-years
  • Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    I really don't care if Reeves stays or goes. Her budget seems an ad hoc collection of too clever by half wheezes and wishful thinking (cf George Osborne). But it is on this basis she should be judged, not on irrelevant LinkedIn posts.
    She, like all politician should be judged on integrity. She has none.
    Boris Johnson's CV was also known to be innacurate. Perhaps we could sue him or better still reverse some of his more egregious actions during his time in office.
    Yes, all those visas he recklessly issued shouldn’t be extended.
    I was thinking of all things Brexit. Perhaps we could subpoena the Red Bus to appear in court
    The funny thing is, the NHS did get £350 million a week more....and more on top.

    Spending on NHS went from £140bn a year to over £180bn before last budget.
    And in real terms?
    The bus didn't say anything about in real terms.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    I really don't care if Reeves stays or goes. Her budget seems an ad hoc collection of too clever by half wheezes and wishful thinking (cf George Osborne). But it is on this basis she should be judged, not on irrelevant LinkedIn posts.
    She, like all politician should be judged on integrity. She has none.
    Boris Johnson's CV was also known to be innacurate. Perhaps we could sue him or better still reverse some of his more egregious actions during his time in office.
    Yes, all those visas he recklessly issued shouldn’t be extended.
    I was thinking of all things Brexit. Perhaps we could subpoena the Red Bus to appear in court
    The funny thing is, the NHS did get £350 million a week more....and more on top.

    Spending on NHS went from £140bn a year to over £180bn before last budget.
    And it's still crap
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,308
    rkrkrk said:

    Chris said:

    Roger said:

    So she's better than the last two years of the Tories and she's only been there for 6 months.......

    Where's the scoop?

    She has full on lied on her CV. In any other walk of life that would be gross misconduct that would lead to dismissal.

    Johnson was quite correctly ousted for lying. Reeves should resign, and if the liar does not, she should be sacked or Starmer is no better than Johnson.
    First, has she lied or did she merely stretch the actualité?

    Second, what has her CV to do with her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor?

    It is not as if anyone called for Tony Blair to resign over his claimed favourite meal changing with latitude, or David Cameron over his support for West Villa United (although there was a bit of a fuss over Blair and Jackie Milburn).
    The two latter examples are absurd comparisons that are not relevant.

    She lied on her CV and her LinkedIn profile, both in the duration of her role and the job title and type of organisation, with a clear intent to deceive . It was not a mistake, an exaggeration, or stretching of the truth, it was a full on lie that would be enough, as I say, to cause someone to be fired in any other walk of life.

    Perhaps to some Labour supporters lying is only a bad thing when it is done by Tories?
    Aside from a few light-hearted PB posts whenever West Ham and Aston Villa meet, no-one remarks on Cameron's fibs.

    Even if you are right that Reeves lied on LinkedIn, there is no obvious link between that and her election to parliament or appointment as Chancellor. It is like pointing to her recently-dyed hair and complaining she is lying about its true colour: she might be but there is no link to any material benefit.
    It really is quite simple. If someone lies on their CV it matters not whether it was material to them getting appointed, though without a parallel universe that is unknown. The point is that the individual is fundamentally and demonstrably dishonest. I might be old fashioned but I prefer the leaders of my country not to be proven liars, hence why I was always opposed to Johnson.
    Without any material benefit, it is not even clear Reeves lied or merely applied a little gloss. In my own career there has often been little discernible relationship between job title and function. She was an economist and she was employed.
    Total nonsense and you know it. Your "my party right or wrong" is rather disappointing as I thought you were smarter than that. As TSE just mentioned with respect to Johnson, it is about integrity. Reeves has proven she has none.
    If only there were a political party not mostly populated by serial liars, we'd be in a much better state.
    I am not sure that is fair. There are many politicians of all stripes who are fundamentally honest. I think the vast majority of them would think that blatantly lying on a CV was not a sensible thing to do.

    As an employer I consider it fraud, which is what it is. Any employee of any company I was involved with who did such a thing would receive a full disciplinary procedure for what Reeves has done.
    As it happens, I know someone who worked with Reeves, He described what she was doing at the time as 'mortgage planning, interest rates, housing market sizing, volumes, spreads etc'. To describe that as the work of an 'economist' seems reasonable to me. It's not a protected word.
    That was not the only infringement. If it were it would simply be a modest embellishment, which while possibly a little dishonest would not fall into the fraudulent category
    I don't subscribe to the telegraph. What exactly is the lie she has told?
    There are many sources. Look it up.
  • Even before the COVID induced inflation, the NHS got its £350million per week extra funding by start of 2020.
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