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This is how polls should be reported – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,157
edited November 18 in General
This is how polls should be reported – politicalbetting.com

My wish for the next election is that poll trackers look like the one on the right ? not the leftThis was yet another election where the polling showed it could easily go either way, but most of the charts just showed two nice clean lines, one leading and one trailing. Bad! pic.twitter.com/kCLyl0TGhO

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Comments

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,396
    Second. Like pollsters v reality.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,176
    The U.K. general election had the polls, in general, miss badly.

    The US presidential election had the polls, in general, predicting the result, *within their historic margin of error*.

    That is, they were saying “on knife edge with an advantage to Trump”.
  • Welcome to Happy Gambling Week!

    Oh sorry, this is Safer Gambling Week. Not safe but safer.
    https://safergamblinguk.org/
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,396
    edited November 18
    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,396

    Welcome to Happy Gambling Week!

    Oh sorry, this is Safer Gambling Week. Not safe but safer.
    https://safergamblinguk.org/

    Aka, Lay the favourite week?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,613

    The U.K. general election had the polls, in general, miss badly.

    The US presidential election had the polls, in general, predicting the result, *within their historic margin of error*.

    That is, they were saying “on knife edge with an advantage to Trump”.

    Well, yes and no. The UK polls got the number of seats in parliament pretty well, it was the percentage votes that they were less good on, but that matters less.

    The US polls showed a coin toss, but as the seven swing states were likely to swing together rather than independently, that made it look like a landslide.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 882

    I have said before, I would introduce American style sheriffs alongside the police. Tell them to have at it. If the police didn't sort their shit out, more and more of their funding would go to the sheriffs. They are a monopoly, and all monopolies have the same effect.

    FPT
    Scotland already has Sheriffs, though I can't quite imagine them delivering 'summary justice' in the same way as an American Sheriff from the bench, giving them a six-shooter might change the dynamics in court somewhat. Perhaps @DavidL is in a better place to comment.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,378
    I agree with John Burn-Murdoch.
  • Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,030

    I have said before, I would introduce American style sheriffs alongside the police. Tell them to have at it. If the police didn't sort their shit out, more and more of their funding would go to the sheriffs. They are a monopoly, and all monopolies have the same effect.

    FPT

    In the US, city police and county sheriffs have jurisdiction over different areas: the police look after incorporated cities, while the county sheriffs enforce the law in unincorporated areas of a county. So they don't really work alongside each other.

    In any case, the system is often a mess, as they often don't talk to each other meaning that lower level criminals can get away my moving jurisdiction. It's also expensive, especially in lightly populated areas, because there is lots of unnecessary duplication, with both maintaining separate facilities, like jails or forensic labs.

    So I don't think it's a model to be followed here.
  • Bluesky "is" usually more considered and literate, that should say there.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,309
    Unpopular said:

    I have said before, I would introduce American style sheriffs alongside the police. Tell them to have at it. If the police didn't sort their shit out, more and more of their funding would go to the sheriffs. They are a monopoly, and all monopolies have the same effect.

    FPT
    Scotland already has Sheriffs, though I can't quite imagine them delivering 'summary justice' in the same way as an American Sheriff from the bench, giving them a six-shooter might change the dynamics in court somewhat. Perhaps @DavidL is in a better place to comment.
    Sherrifs are just judges in the Sherrif courts, the big stuff goes to the High Courts.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,176
    Unpopular said:

    I have said before, I would introduce American style sheriffs alongside the police. Tell them to have at it. If the police didn't sort their shit out, more and more of their funding would go to the sheriffs. They are a monopoly, and all monopolies have the same effect.

    FPT
    Scotland already has Sheriffs, though I can't quite imagine them delivering 'summary justice' in the same way as an American Sheriff from the bench, giving them a six-shooter might change the dynamics in court somewhat. Perhaps @DavidL is in a better place to comment.
    The Police & Crime Commissioners were supposed to be for reconnecting the police to the policed population, especially in terms of priorities.

    In the end, the party political system meant that we got a string of third rate political hacks. Who often take the salary and let the system do what it wants.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,176
    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    The odds? 100% certainty that it would happen. After he did whatever he did to upset people.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,176

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    I heard somewhere that only a few % of US voters are willing to respond to opinion polls in the first place. If that's a true statistic, it must make conducting reliable polling very difficult.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,176
    The other problem with polling is the using of tracker a polling averages.

    Since pollsters herd in methodology, the way that car designers produce similar looking cars, the average only removes “rogue instance”.

    So 9/10 polls showing a 2 point lead doesn’t mean what it apparently says.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,786
    Unpopular said:

    I have said before, I would introduce American style sheriffs alongside the police. Tell them to have at it. If the police didn't sort their shit out, more and more of their funding would go to the sheriffs. They are a monopoly, and all monopolies have the same effect.

    FPT
    Scotland already has Sheriffs, though I can't quite imagine them delivering 'summary justice' in the same way as an American Sheriff from the bench, giving them a six-shooter might change the dynamics in court somewhat. Perhaps @DavidL is in a better place to comment.
    Can't think of many sheriffs I would trust with a loaded gun.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    Or, on other platforms:

    1. To show off your wares/attributes/CV/pout
    2. To find a group of people who are sufficiently impressed
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,176
    TimS said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    Or, on other platforms:

    1. To show off your wares/attributes/CV/pout
    2. To find a group of people who are sufficiently impressed
    Which is why LinkedIn gets hate for being Bad Social Media. Because it is a terrible platform for building a Belief Gang.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,925
    IanB2 said:

    I heard somewhere that only a few % of US voters are willing to respond to opinion polls in the first place. If that's a true statistic, it must make conducting reliable polling very difficult.

    Yet despite that they still got it to within a point or two.

    So either that few % is not correct, or they can correct for it reasonably well.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,092
    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,378

    Unpopular said:

    I have said before, I would introduce American style sheriffs alongside the police. Tell them to have at it. If the police didn't sort their shit out, more and more of their funding would go to the sheriffs. They are a monopoly, and all monopolies have the same effect.

    FPT
    Scotland already has Sheriffs, though I can't quite imagine them delivering 'summary justice' in the same way as an American Sheriff from the bench, giving them a six-shooter might change the dynamics in court somewhat. Perhaps @DavidL is in a better place to comment.
    The Police & Crime Commissioners were supposed to be for reconnecting the police to the policed population, especially in terms of priorities.

    In the end, the party political system meant that we got a string of third rate political hacks. Who often take the salary and let the system do what it wants.
    Salutatory lesson for those that think Lords Reform is a quick fix.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983

    TimS said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    Or, on other platforms:

    1. To show off your wares/attributes/CV/pout
    2. To find a group of people who are sufficiently impressed
    Which is why LinkedIn gets hate for being Bad Social Media. Because it is a terrible platform for building a Belief Gang.
    All social media involves people adopting fake or exaggerated personas. LinkedIn has them pretending to be “passionate” about their jobs, Instagram showcases their perfect lives, products and lighting effects, TwiX gets them angrily partisan and judgmental in a way they never are in real life.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,769
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: if the track's as slippery as last year then some crashes and VSCs/safety cars seem eminently possible.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    F1: if the track's as slippery as last year then some crashes and VSCs/safety cars seem eminently possible.

    What are you talking about? Which track? What's the weather forecast?
  • The U.K. general election had the polls, in general, miss badly.

    The US presidential election had the polls, in general, predicting the result, *within their historic margin of error*.

    That is, they were saying “on knife edge with an advantage to Trump”.

    The French bettor who made $50m on Trump using polymarket had private neighbour polls. Apparently it is more accurate to ask who your neighbour is voting for.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,769
    Mr. JohnL, Vegas. The streets were very low grip last year.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,006
    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,092
    edited November 18

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    No. I disagree. That may be your view, or a deliberate bit of hyperbole for a Monday breakfast time.

    I'm more with social media is what we collectively make of it, with a whole spectrum of variation.

    My local Sutton Living Memory Facebook Group (16k members) tells me oodles of recent local history.
    This morning Nottingham Cycle Chat (private, 1000 members) has told me about a new cafe in Shipley Country Park and which Nottingham Cycle Parking facilities have a history of scrotes stealing things.
    Cycling UK Canals and Rivers (50k members iirc) has told me other things.
    And the Omnipod 5 user group (4k and growing rapidly) is educating me about the wrinkles of my new capsule insulin pumps.
    The Leeanderthal Man's group is obviously full of Leeanderthal men.
    And my various family and friends networks keep me in touch. Too many adoring photos of one relative's Shit-Pooh dog, however; it even has a name from the Six Million Dollar Man (slinky spring sound effect).

    The issue with Twitter is systemic, with all pretence of being a neutral service provider abandoned. It's like swimming in a river where the water company is forever releasing raw sewage. There is an opportunity to make something better without the sewage, so I will support it with my small contribution. If Elon Musk wants me to be his plaything, he can go and fuck himself.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited November 18
    Some truth in that but of course in every election pollsters can say the result was within the range of margin of error.

    Not every pollster was off either, Atlas polls were actually very close to the national and swing states result. Tipp was also closer to the national popular result than other polls, as it was in 2020 and 2016
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,769
    Just as an aside, if Discord counts as social media then I find that useful for group chats while playing TTRPGs.

    Yesterday was fun. The party (and me) discovered that fighting a behir can be rough.
  • Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
    Liam Payne had a similar incident a few weeks ago of course
  • HYUFD said:

    Some truth in that but of course in every election pollsters can say the result was within the range of margin of error.

    Not every pollster was off either, Atlas polls were actually very close to the national and swing states result. Tipp was also closer to the national popular result than other polls, as it was in 2020 and 2016

    This is the eternal problem with polling. We can assume one of the polls is spot on but have no way of telling which one.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,006
    Having had a kidney problem misdiagnosed by a doctor who specialised in the condition he misdiagnosed for me, I can well believe this.
    (Caveat, it's only a small study, so far from conclusive.)

    https://x.com/kimmonismus/status/1858208537869951318
    Study Finds ChatGPT Outperforms Doctors at Diagnosing Illness

    In a surprising small-scale study, ChatGPT-4 outperformed doctors at diagnosing medical cases, even when those doctors had access to the same chatbot. Published in JAMA Network Open, the study tested 50 physicians on six challenging medical cases. The chatbot scored 90%, compared to 76% for doctors using ChatGPT and 74% for those relying only on conventional resources.

    The findings highlight three critical issues:
    1. Human Bias: Many doctors clung to their initial diagnoses, even when the chatbot suggested alternatives with better reasoning.
    2. Underutilization: Most physicians used ChatGPT for targeted questions, failing to exploit its ability to analyze entire case histories comprehensively.
    3. Trust Gap: Despite ChatGPT’s superior performance, skepticism remains about integrating A.I. into clinical workflows...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,534
    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    No. I disagree. That may be your view, or a deliberate bit of hyperbole for a Monday breakfast time.

    I'm more with social media is what we collectively make of it, with a whole spectrum of variation.

    My local Sutton Living Memory Facebook Group (16k members) tells me oodles of recent local history.
    This morning Nottingham Cycle Chat (private, 1000 members) has told me about a new cafe in Shipley Country Park and which Nottingham Cycle Parking facilities have a history of scrotes stealing things.
    Cycling UK Canals and Rivers (50k members iirc) has told me other things.
    And the Omnipod 5 user group (4k and growing rapidly) is educating me about the wrinkles of my new capsule insulin pumps.
    The Leeanderthal Man's group is obviously full of Leeanderthal men.
    And my various family and friends networks keep me in touch. Too many adoring photos of one relative's Shit-Pooh dog, however.

    The issue with Twitter is systemic, with all pretence of being a neutral service provider abandoned. It's like swimming in a river where the water company is forever releasing raw sewage. There is an opportunity to make something better without the sewage, so I will support it with my small contribution. If Elon Musk wants me to be his plaything, he can go and fuck himself.
    Social media is a tool. Use it well, and it can be fun, engaging and informative. Use it badly, and it can be annoying, discontenting and misinformative. I like Facebook, because it allows me to keep track of far-flung family and friends and mutual interest groups (e.g. trains, pathetic triathletes...)

    But Twix is rapidly becoming a Torx screwdriver that has become mangled after an idiot has tried to use it on too many Phillips heads screws. It's still a tool, but pretty useless for anything other than a shank.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    The U.K. general election had the polls, in general, miss badly.

    The US presidential election had the polls, in general, predicting the result, *within their historic margin of error*.

    That is, they were saying “on knife edge with an advantage to Trump”.

    Norstat was the most accurate pollster for the UK 2024 general election as Survation lost its crown. Norstat got the Tory voteshare spot on even if it slightly overestimated Labour still

    "Opinion polling for the 2024 United Kingdom general election - Wikipedia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2024_United_Kingdom_general_election
  • Nigelb said:

    Having had a kidney problem misdiagnosed by a doctor who specialised in the condition he misdiagnosed for me, I can well believe this.
    (Caveat, it's only a small study, so far from conclusive.)

    https://x.com/kimmonismus/status/1858208537869951318
    Study Finds ChatGPT Outperforms Doctors at Diagnosing Illness

    In a surprising small-scale study, ChatGPT-4 outperformed doctors at diagnosing medical cases, even when those doctors had access to the same chatbot. Published in JAMA Network Open, the study tested 50 physicians on six challenging medical cases. The chatbot scored 90%, compared to 76% for doctors using ChatGPT and 74% for those relying only on conventional resources.

    The findings highlight three critical issues:
    1. Human Bias: Many doctors clung to their initial diagnoses, even when the chatbot suggested alternatives with better reasoning.
    2. Underutilization: Most physicians used ChatGPT for targeted questions, failing to exploit its ability to analyze entire case histories comprehensively.
    3. Trust Gap: Despite ChatGPT’s superior performance, skepticism remains about integrating A.I. into clinical workflows...

    Of course technology has moved on apace but the failure of IBM's Watson AI in leading American hospitals should be remembered. Just ten years ago, it was the future of medicine.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,006

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
    At least one of the high window falls has got to be something other than murder, sure.
    5% chance ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,006

    Nigelb said:

    Having had a kidney problem misdiagnosed by a doctor who specialised in the condition he misdiagnosed for me, I can well believe this.
    (Caveat, it's only a small study, so far from conclusive.)

    https://x.com/kimmonismus/status/1858208537869951318
    Study Finds ChatGPT Outperforms Doctors at Diagnosing Illness

    In a surprising small-scale study, ChatGPT-4 outperformed doctors at diagnosing medical cases, even when those doctors had access to the same chatbot. Published in JAMA Network Open, the study tested 50 physicians on six challenging medical cases. The chatbot scored 90%, compared to 76% for doctors using ChatGPT and 74% for those relying only on conventional resources.

    The findings highlight three critical issues:
    1. Human Bias: Many doctors clung to their initial diagnoses, even when the chatbot suggested alternatives with better reasoning.
    2. Underutilization: Most physicians used ChatGPT for targeted questions, failing to exploit its ability to analyze entire case histories comprehensively.
    3. Trust Gap: Despite ChatGPT’s superior performance, skepticism remains about integrating A.I. into clinical workflows...

    Of course technology has moved on apace but the failure of IBM's Watson AI in leading American hospitals should be remembered. Just ten years ago, it was the future of medicine.
    I suspect the results are more a reflection of how poor we are at diagnosis, rather than how good AI might be.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,092

    Unpopular said:

    I have said before, I would introduce American style sheriffs alongside the police. Tell them to have at it. If the police didn't sort their shit out, more and more of their funding would go to the sheriffs. They are a monopoly, and all monopolies have the same effect.

    FPT
    Scotland already has Sheriffs, though I can't quite imagine them delivering 'summary justice' in the same way as an American Sheriff from the bench, giving them a six-shooter might change the dynamics in court somewhat. Perhaps @DavidL is in a better place to comment.
    The Police & Crime Commissioners were supposed to be for reconnecting the police to the policed population, especially in terms of priorities.

    In the end, the party political system meant that we got a string of third rate political hacks. Who often take the salary and let the system do what it wants.
    Salutatory lesson for those that think Lords Reform is a quick fix.
    I'm not sure if anyone has said it is a quick fix.

    Lords Reform has been going on in 94 or more baby steps since about 1025.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,931

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    No. I disagree. That may be your view, or a deliberate bit of hyperbole for a Monday breakfast time.

    I'm more with social media is what we collectively make of it, with a whole spectrum of variation.

    My local Sutton Living Memory Facebook Group (16k members) tells me oodles of recent local history.
    This morning Nottingham Cycle Chat (private, 1000 members) has told me about a new cafe in Shipley Country Park and which Nottingham Cycle Parking facilities have a history of scrotes stealing things.
    Cycling UK Canals and Rivers (50k members iirc) has told me other things.
    And the Omnipod 5 user group (4k and growing rapidly) is educating me about the wrinkles of my new capsule insulin pumps.
    The Leeanderthal Man's group is obviously full of Leeanderthal men.
    And my various family and friends networks keep me in touch. Too many adoring photos of one relative's Shit-Pooh dog, however.

    The issue with Twitter is systemic, with all pretence of being a neutral service provider abandoned. It's like swimming in a river where the water company is forever releasing raw sewage. There is an opportunity to make something better without the sewage, so I will support it with my small contribution. If Elon Musk wants me to be his plaything, he can go and fuck himself.
    Social media is a tool. Use it well, and it can be fun, engaging and informative. Use it badly, and it can be annoying, discontenting and misinformative. I like Facebook, because it allows me to keep track of far-flung family and friends and mutual interest groups (e.g. trains, pathetic triathletes...)

    But Twix is rapidly becoming a Torx screwdriver that has become mangled after an idiot has tried to use it on too many Phillips heads screws. It's still a tool, but pretty useless for anything other than a shank.
    Twitter has been completely unusable for a while now. I remember the good old days (2009-2014ish) when you would follow people with similar interests and spark up a conversation. You'd even meet some of them IRL at 'tweetups' and become friends.

    I exchanged information and met up with industry peers at a few IRL events, bonded with people over similar music tastes, shared random memes and funnies.

    Then the rot set in. And by rot, I mean politics. It corrodes everything it touches. Once twitter hit the tipping point of being mostly politics, slowly, all the people using it for other reasons left. Eventually it just became arguments and porn bots.

    Bluesky is useful because of its blocklist feature. Meaning you can have, say, a discussion on queer literature without some knuckle dragger turning the thread into a DID U KNO THER R ONLY 2 GENDARS? and turning the whole discussion into a flaming dumpster fire. Not everything has to be about politics, all of the time. Sometimes, you just wanna talk about books.

    Where Bluesky is bad is that it's 2014-Tumblr redux. A coterie of hard-left radicals who pile on to anyone who doesn't share their views who are the second cheek of the same arse of the MAGA types who make Twitter unusable. Bluesky has a "this is a space for leftists" culture and if you don't meet the purity test, you'll quickly end up blocked.

    It's worth pointing out that the second most blocked person on Bluesky at the moment is Brianna Wu, who you may remember as the trans woman who got brigaded on twitter a decade ago by far right morons in 'gamergate'. Now she's getting hassled by the far left for daring to suggest that their absolutist views are harming trans rights. She's also pro-Israel. Truly, the revolution eating its own children.

    I like PB because it enables me to compartmentalise political debate - I don't talk politics elsewhere online, or ever in real life. The problem is everyone wants to turn everywhere online into a political slanging match. Imagine everyone turning every forum everywhere into non-stop football talk. When you just want to share recipes for cake. Eventually the politics corrodes everything, making 'general purpose' public spaces utterly useless for anything other than politics, forcing people into highly moderated niche forums, subreddits, discord channels, etc, to discuss other topics.

    TL;DR. Even with strong moderation, social media is probably dead as a means of communicating *anything* except political hatred for the other side.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,006
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
    Liam Payne had a similar incident a few weeks ago of course
    Really ??
    How did he piss Putin off ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,006
    North Korea may deploy up to 100,000 troops to help Russia in its war against Ukraine, Bloomberg reports, citing its own sources. The sources said that such a number of troops would be deployed if cooperation between Pyongyang and Moscow continues to deepen.
    https://x.com/Hromadske/status/1858246230570393958
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,092
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    If we are after random explanations, I'll go with him being tipsy and thinking - "I'm a ballet dancer, I wonder if I can bounce from this height".
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    kyf_100 said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    No. I disagree. That may be your view, or a deliberate bit of hyperbole for a Monday breakfast time.

    I'm more with social media is what we collectively make of it, with a whole spectrum of variation.

    My local Sutton Living Memory Facebook Group (16k members) tells me oodles of recent local history.
    This morning Nottingham Cycle Chat (private, 1000 members) has told me about a new cafe in Shipley Country Park and which Nottingham Cycle Parking facilities have a history of scrotes stealing things.
    Cycling UK Canals and Rivers (50k members iirc) has told me other things.
    And the Omnipod 5 user group (4k and growing rapidly) is educating me about the wrinkles of my new capsule insulin pumps.
    The Leeanderthal Man's group is obviously full of Leeanderthal men.
    And my various family and friends networks keep me in touch. Too many adoring photos of one relative's Shit-Pooh dog, however.

    The issue with Twitter is systemic, with all pretence of being a neutral service provider abandoned. It's like swimming in a river where the water company is forever releasing raw sewage. There is an opportunity to make something better without the sewage, so I will support it with my small contribution. If Elon Musk wants me to be his plaything, he can go and fuck himself.
    Social media is a tool. Use it well, and it can be fun, engaging and informative. Use it badly, and it can be annoying, discontenting and misinformative. I like Facebook, because it allows me to keep track of far-flung family and friends and mutual interest groups (e.g. trains, pathetic triathletes...)

    But Twix is rapidly becoming a Torx screwdriver that has become mangled after an idiot has tried to use it on too many Phillips heads screws. It's still a tool, but pretty useless for anything other than a shank.
    Twitter has been completely unusable for a while now. I remember the good old days (2009-2014ish) when you would follow people with similar interests and spark up a conversation. You'd even meet some of them IRL at 'tweetups' and become friends.

    I exchanged information and met up with industry peers at a few IRL events, bonded with people over similar music tastes, shared random memes and funnies.

    Then the rot set in. And by rot, I mean politics. It corrodes everything it touches. Once twitter hit the tipping point of being mostly politics, slowly, all the people using it for other reasons left. Eventually it just became arguments and porn bots.

    Bluesky is useful because of its blocklist feature. Meaning you can have, say, a discussion on queer literature without some knuckle dragger turning the thread into a DID U KNO THER R ONLY 2 GENDARS? and turning the whole discussion into a flaming dumpster fire. Not everything has to be about politics, all of the time. Sometimes, you just wanna talk about books.

    Where Bluesky is bad is that it's 2014-Tumblr redux. A coterie of hard-left radicals who pile on to anyone who doesn't share their views who are the second cheek of the same arse of the MAGA types who make Twitter unusable. Bluesky has a "this is a space for leftists" culture and if you don't meet the purity test, you'll quickly end up blocked.

    It's worth pointing out that the second most blocked person on Bluesky at the moment is Brianna Wu, who you may remember as the trans woman who got brigaded on twitter a decade ago by far right morons in 'gamergate'. Now she's getting hassled by the far left for daring to suggest that their absolutist views are harming trans rights. She's also pro-Israel. Truly, the revolution eating its own children.

    I like PB because it enables me to compartmentalise political debate - I don't talk politics elsewhere online, or ever in real life. The problem is everyone wants to turn everywhere online into a political slanging match. Imagine everyone turning every forum everywhere into non-stop football talk. When you just want to share recipes for cake. Eventually the politics corrodes everything, making 'general purpose' public spaces utterly useless for anything other than politics, forcing people into highly moderated niche forums, subreddits, discord channels, etc, to discuss other topics.

    TL;DR. Even with strong moderation, social media is probably dead as a means of communicating *anything* except political hatred for the other side.
    You're probably right. Twitter's become more spammy since Musk took over but it always had the hate. Sounds like Bluesky is going that way too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,006
    Republicans suddenly think the economy’s great and the election wasn’t rigged
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/11/17/republicans-trump-win-economy-election-security-confidence-00189941
  • Unpopular said:

    I have said before, I would introduce American style sheriffs alongside the police. Tell them to have at it. If the police didn't sort their shit out, more and more of their funding would go to the sheriffs. They are a monopoly, and all monopolies have the same effect.

    FPT
    Scotland already has Sheriffs, though I can't quite imagine them delivering 'summary justice' in the same way as an American Sheriff from the bench, giving them a six-shooter might change the dynamics in court somewhat. Perhaps @DavidL is in a better place to comment.
    Scotland also has "Messengers-At-Arms".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messenger-at-arms
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,390

    TimS said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    Or, on other platforms:

    1. To show off your wares/attributes/CV/pout
    2. To find a group of people who are sufficiently impressed
    Which is why LinkedIn gets hate for being Bad Social Media. Because it is a terrible platform for building a Belief Gang.
    I don't like it because I keep getting messages about coworkers, which I always, always, read as cow workers.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
    At least one of the high window falls has got to be something other than murder, sure.
    5% chance ?
    If it's a 5% probability, does that the victims outliers?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
    Liam Payne had a similar incident a few weeks ago of course
    Really ??
    How did he piss Putin off ?
    I worry about our French house as we're starting to let it out to tourists next year, and the upstairs bedroom windows are huge and would be easy to climb out of if you were so inclined. I read that one of the members of Supergrass broke his back falling from a first floor bedroom window in a Provence holiday let. Hopefully the insurance will cover falling tourist risk.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,390
    kyf_100 said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    No. I disagree. That may be your view, or a deliberate bit of hyperbole for a Monday breakfast time.

    I'm more with social media is what we collectively make of it, with a whole spectrum of variation.

    My local Sutton Living Memory Facebook Group (16k members) tells me oodles of recent local history.
    This morning Nottingham Cycle Chat (private, 1000 members) has told me about a new cafe in Shipley Country Park and which Nottingham Cycle Parking facilities have a history of scrotes stealing things.
    Cycling UK Canals and Rivers (50k members iirc) has told me other things.
    And the Omnipod 5 user group (4k and growing rapidly) is educating me about the wrinkles of my new capsule insulin pumps.
    The Leeanderthal Man's group is obviously full of Leeanderthal men.
    And my various family and friends networks keep me in touch. Too many adoring photos of one relative's Shit-Pooh dog, however.

    The issue with Twitter is systemic, with all pretence of being a neutral service provider abandoned. It's like swimming in a river where the water company is forever releasing raw sewage. There is an opportunity to make something better without the sewage, so I will support it with my small contribution. If Elon Musk wants me to be his plaything, he can go and fuck himself.
    Social media is a tool. Use it well, and it can be fun, engaging and informative. Use it badly, and it can be annoying, discontenting and misinformative. I like Facebook, because it allows me to keep track of far-flung family and friends and mutual interest groups (e.g. trains, pathetic triathletes...)

    But Twix is rapidly becoming a Torx screwdriver that has become mangled after an idiot has tried to use it on too many Phillips heads screws. It's still a tool, but pretty useless for anything other than a shank.
    Twitter has been completely unusable for a while now. I remember the good old days (2009-2014ish) when you would follow people with similar interests and spark up a conversation. You'd even meet some of them IRL at 'tweetups' and become friends.

    I exchanged information and met up with industry peers at a few IRL events, bonded with people over similar music tastes, shared random memes and funnies.

    Then the rot set in. And by rot, I mean politics. It corrodes everything it touches. Once twitter hit the tipping point of being mostly politics, slowly, all the people using it for other reasons left. Eventually it just became arguments and porn bots.

    Bluesky is useful because of its blocklist feature. Meaning you can have, say, a discussion on queer literature without some knuckle dragger turning the thread into a DID U KNO THER R ONLY 2 GENDARS? and turning the whole discussion into a flaming dumpster fire. Not everything has to be about politics, all of the time. Sometimes, you just wanna talk about books.

    Where Bluesky is bad is that it's 2014-Tumblr redux. A coterie of hard-left radicals who pile on to anyone who doesn't share their views who are the second cheek of the same arse of the MAGA types who make Twitter unusable. Bluesky has a "this is a space for leftists" culture and if you don't meet the purity test, you'll quickly end up blocked.

    It's worth pointing out that the second most blocked person on Bluesky at the moment is Brianna Wu, who you may remember as the trans woman who got brigaded on twitter a decade ago by far right morons in 'gamergate'. Now she's getting hassled by the far left for daring to suggest that their absolutist views are harming trans rights. She's also pro-Israel. Truly, the revolution eating its own children.

    I like PB because it enables me to compartmentalise political debate - I don't talk politics elsewhere online, or ever in real life. The problem is everyone wants to turn everywhere online into a political slanging match. Imagine everyone turning every forum everywhere into non-stop football talk. When you just want to share recipes for cake. Eventually the politics corrodes everything, making 'general purpose' public spaces utterly useless for anything other than politics, forcing people into highly moderated niche forums, subreddits, discord channels, etc, to discuss other topics.

    TL;DR. Even with strong moderation, social media is probably dead as a means of communicating *anything* except political hatred for the other side.
    Excellent post, but I think you go too far. For instance I am on PB (too much) and currently Netweather. The biggest issues on both sites? For PB its the consumption of exotic yellow fruit on artisanal Italian flat bread on the other its peoples constant imbyism about whether it will snow or nor.

    Like the old adage - if you meet one arsehole in your day, bad luck, you met an arsehole. If you meet lots of arseholes, then maybe its you? I don't see the issues with twitter that others do, and Facebook etc seems fine.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,390
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
    Liam Payne had a similar incident a few weeks ago of course
    Really ??
    How did he piss Putin off ?
    I worry about our French house as we're starting to let it out to tourists next year, and the upstairs bedroom windows are huge and would be easy to climb out of if you were so inclined. I read that one of the members of Supergrass broke his back falling from a first floor bedroom window in a Provence holiday let. Hopefully the insurance will cover falling tourist risk.
    Or you will end up like the big hotels with windows that can only open a few inches.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    edited November 18
    Nigelb said:

    North Korea may deploy up to 100,000 troops to help Russia in its war against Ukraine, Bloomberg reports, citing its own sources. The sources said that such a number of troops would be deployed if cooperation between Pyongyang and Moscow continues to deepen.
    https://x.com/Hromadske/status/1858246230570393958

    All this is an absolute gift for North Korea. They're getting brought in from the cold now and are untouchable internationally. Not so great for its soldiers but since when did that bother Pyongyang?

    Presumably this is also with the clear say-so of China. Using North Korea as a proxy for direct support to Russia in Ukraine.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,043

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    That says it all. The former is an opinion, with which one may agree or disagree. The latter is just batshit crazy nonsense.
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,756
    Polls have become manipulated by politics and media and I only pay attention to the general direction of them.

    In the last GE, polls indicated that Keir Starmer was going to win a vote percentage higher than Tony Blair but what he achieved was 33%.

    The IOWA polls just before the US election indicated that Kamala Harris was doing extraordinarily well in the mid-west and this bore no resemblance to the actual result.

    Unfortunately in the run-up to an election, the media seems to concentrate on polls more than policies or content and this is subject to a lot of manipulation by the dark arts.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,573
    https://x.com/michaellcrick/status/1858433696770273424

    These alleged false CV claims by Rachel Reeves are serious. Unless she can produce a good explanation, she should resign as Chancellor & MP - or be sacked. I know that won't happen, but brushing the allegations aside will only encourage others to make false claims.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,176
    edited November 18

    TimS said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    Or, on other platforms:

    1. To show off your wares/attributes/CV/pout
    2. To find a group of people who are sufficiently impressed
    Which is why LinkedIn gets hate for being Bad Social Media. Because it is a terrible platform for building a Belief Gang.
    I don't like it because I keep getting messages about coworkers, which I always, always, read as cow workers.
    Nonesense

    Cow *Orkers*

    This Is Known.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,176

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    That says it all. The former is an opinion, with which one may agree or disagree. The latter is just batshit crazy nonsense.
    Absolutely. Soros is in league with Kuthulu, not Sodom and Gomorrha.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,714
    Nigelb said:

    Having had a kidney problem misdiagnosed by a doctor who specialised in the condition he misdiagnosed for me, I can well believe this.
    (Caveat, it's only a small study, so far from conclusive.)

    https://x.com/kimmonismus/status/1858208537869951318
    Study Finds ChatGPT Outperforms Doctors at Diagnosing Illness

    In a surprising small-scale study, ChatGPT-4 outperformed doctors at diagnosing medical cases, even when those doctors had access to the same chatbot. Published in JAMA Network Open, the study tested 50 physicians on six challenging medical cases. The chatbot scored 90%, compared to 76% for doctors using ChatGPT and 74% for those relying only on conventional resources.

    The findings highlight three critical issues:
    1. Human Bias: Many doctors clung to their initial diagnoses, even when the chatbot suggested alternatives with better reasoning.
    2. Underutilization: Most physicians used ChatGPT for targeted questions, failing to exploit its ability to analyze entire case histories comprehensively.
    3. Trust Gap: Despite ChatGPT’s superior performance, skepticism remains about integrating A.I. into clinical workflows...

    I'd need to see the split of diagnoses there - does the ChatGPT just pick the most common that kind of matches the symptoms? If so, then it could do potentially do well on accuracy by consistently picking the most common diagnoses. Also have to consider the downsides of misdiagnoses in each case. Have to go and find the study to see what the measures were. When I have time.

    It may well be as impressive as it sounds, but I hate accuracy as a measure when you don't know the underlying distribution of things.

    Also, how did ChatGPT score 90% on six cases? Or did it get 300 goes (50 physicians x 6 cases) like the physicians?
  • https://x.com/michaellcrick/status/1858433696770273424

    These alleged false CV claims by Rachel Reeves are serious. Unless she can produce a good explanation, she should resign as Chancellor & MP - or be sacked. I know that won't happen, but brushing the allegations aside will only encourage others to make false claims.

    CVgate provides a good excuse for Starmer to replace Reeves as Chancellor but I doubt anyone really cares except for opportunistic partisans.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,714
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
    Liam Payne had a similar incident a few weeks ago of course
    Really ??
    How did he piss Putin off ?
    I worry about our French house as we're starting to let it out to tourists next year, and the upstairs bedroom windows are huge and would be easy to climb out of if you were so inclined. I read that one of the members of Supergrass broke his back falling from a first floor bedroom window in a Provence holiday let. Hopefully the insurance will cover falling tourist risk.
    Big trampoline under each window? You may then need insurance for trampoline-related-injuries...

    Just ban Russians from staying there, I guess.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,043

    TimS said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    Or, on other platforms:

    1. To show off your wares/attributes/CV/pout
    2. To find a group of people who are sufficiently impressed
    Which is why LinkedIn gets hate for being Bad Social Media. Because it is a terrible platform for building a Belief Gang.
    I don't like it because I keep getting messages about coworkers, which I always, always, read as cow workers.
    Nonesense

    Cow *Orkers*

    This Is Known.
    I don’t think one should ork cows. It seems cruel.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,176
    Selebian said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
    Liam Payne had a similar incident a few weeks ago of course
    Really ??
    How did he piss Putin off ?
    I worry about our French house as we're starting to let it out to tourists next year, and the upstairs bedroom windows are huge and would be easy to climb out of if you were so inclined. I read that one of the members of Supergrass broke his back falling from a first floor bedroom window in a Provence holiday let. Hopefully the insurance will cover falling tourist risk.
    Big trampoline under each window? You may then need insurance for trampoline-related-injuries...

    Just ban Russians from staying there, I guess.
    Install fixed, unopenable windows of 6 inch thick sapphire.

    Then market it to Russians.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,931

    kyf_100 said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    No. I disagree. That may be your view, or a deliberate bit of hyperbole for a Monday breakfast time.

    I'm more with social media is what we collectively make of it, with a whole spectrum of variation.

    My local Sutton Living Memory Facebook Group (16k members) tells me oodles of recent local history.
    This morning Nottingham Cycle Chat (private, 1000 members) has told me about a new cafe in Shipley Country Park and which Nottingham Cycle Parking facilities have a history of scrotes stealing things.
    Cycling UK Canals and Rivers (50k members iirc) has told me other things.
    And the Omnipod 5 user group (4k and growing rapidly) is educating me about the wrinkles of my new capsule insulin pumps.
    The Leeanderthal Man's group is obviously full of Leeanderthal men.
    And my various family and friends networks keep me in touch. Too many adoring photos of one relative's Shit-Pooh dog, however.

    The issue with Twitter is systemic, with all pretence of being a neutral service provider abandoned. It's like swimming in a river where the water company is forever releasing raw sewage. There is an opportunity to make something better without the sewage, so I will support it with my small contribution. If Elon Musk wants me to be his plaything, he can go and fuck himself.
    Social media is a tool. Use it well, and it can be fun, engaging and informative. Use it badly, and it can be annoying, discontenting and misinformative. I like Facebook, because it allows me to keep track of far-flung family and friends and mutual interest groups (e.g. trains, pathetic triathletes...)

    But Twix is rapidly becoming a Torx screwdriver that has become mangled after an idiot has tried to use it on too many Phillips heads screws. It's still a tool, but pretty useless for anything other than a shank.
    Twitter has been completely unusable for a while now. I remember the good old days (2009-2014ish) when you would follow people with similar interests and spark up a conversation. You'd even meet some of them IRL at 'tweetups' and become friends.

    I exchanged information and met up with industry peers at a few IRL events, bonded with people over similar music tastes, shared random memes and funnies.

    Then the rot set in. And by rot, I mean politics. It corrodes everything it touches. Once twitter hit the tipping point of being mostly politics, slowly, all the people using it for other reasons left. Eventually it just became arguments and porn bots.

    Bluesky is useful because of its blocklist feature. Meaning you can have, say, a discussion on queer literature without some knuckle dragger turning the thread into a DID U KNO THER R ONLY 2 GENDARS? and turning the whole discussion into a flaming dumpster fire. Not everything has to be about politics, all of the time. Sometimes, you just wanna talk about books.

    Where Bluesky is bad is that it's 2014-Tumblr redux. A coterie of hard-left radicals who pile on to anyone who doesn't share their views who are the second cheek of the same arse of the MAGA types who make Twitter unusable. Bluesky has a "this is a space for leftists" culture and if you don't meet the purity test, you'll quickly end up blocked.

    It's worth pointing out that the second most blocked person on Bluesky at the moment is Brianna Wu, who you may remember as the trans woman who got brigaded on twitter a decade ago by far right morons in 'gamergate'. Now she's getting hassled by the far left for daring to suggest that their absolutist views are harming trans rights. She's also pro-Israel. Truly, the revolution eating its own children.

    I like PB because it enables me to compartmentalise political debate - I don't talk politics elsewhere online, or ever in real life. The problem is everyone wants to turn everywhere online into a political slanging match. Imagine everyone turning every forum everywhere into non-stop football talk. When you just want to share recipes for cake. Eventually the politics corrodes everything, making 'general purpose' public spaces utterly useless for anything other than politics, forcing people into highly moderated niche forums, subreddits, discord channels, etc, to discuss other topics.

    TL;DR. Even with strong moderation, social media is probably dead as a means of communicating *anything* except political hatred for the other side.
    Excellent post, but I think you go too far. For instance I am on PB (too much) and currently Netweather. The biggest issues on both sites? For PB its the consumption of exotic yellow fruit on artisanal Italian flat bread on the other its peoples constant imbyism about whether it will snow or nor.

    Like the old adage - if you meet one arsehole in your day, bad luck, you met an arsehole. If you meet lots of arseholes, then maybe its you? I don't see the issues with twitter that others do, and Facebook etc seems fine.
    Facebook has been a dead platform since 2016 - around the time of the Presidential Election. Politics drove most people off the site, and it's never recovered. I have a few hundred 'friends' on there and not a single one posts with any kind of regularity any more. The occasional round robin type 'look at my lovely child's first day in school' post. I check it maybe once every couple of weeks. It's a generational thing, I think. I think only people 60+ use it.

    The problem with Twitter is it's impossible to have a civil conversation about anything as a) all the people who don't want to argue politics left long ago and b) all the people who do want to argue politics think because it's an open forum, they can just wander in and start bombarding you with their pet obsessions. Effectively derailing what could have otherwise been interesting discussions. Imagine Leon brigading this forum with AI posts constantly when you're trying to talk about politics. That's what Twitter has become, but in reverse. Bluesky is going the same way, but with a more leftist bent.

    I stand by my idea that 'open' social media is dead and political argument drives out all others until the platform is dead. An enshittification cycle, sort of like the 4channification cycle, where something starts out cool and underground, develops a wider userbase, then the nazis and pornbots move in, everyone else moves out, until there's only nazis and pornbots left.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,336
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    North Korea may deploy up to 100,000 troops to help Russia in its war against Ukraine, Bloomberg reports, citing its own sources. The sources said that such a number of troops would be deployed if cooperation between Pyongyang and Moscow continues to deepen.
    https://x.com/Hromadske/status/1858246230570393958

    All this is an absolute gift for North Korea. They're getting brought in from the cold now and are untouchable internationally. Not so great for its soldiers but since when did that bother Pyongyang?

    Presumably this is also with the clear say-so of China. Using North Korea as a proxy for direct support to Russia in Ukraine.
    That's possible, but it could also be that North Korea sees an alliance with Russia as a way to become more independent of China, and so this may not be under China's direction.

    Western deterrence has crumbled*, so we may soon see China's intentions more clearly.

    * The response from the West is to allow Ukraine to use ATACMs on targets inside Russia, but only on North Korean troops. It's woefully inadequate pettifogging micromanagement. Perhaps it is a luxury that could be indulged from a position of strength, but in the current circumstance when democracy is losing this war, it's emblematic of why we are losing.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,390
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    No. I disagree. That may be your view, or a deliberate bit of hyperbole for a Monday breakfast time.

    I'm more with social media is what we collectively make of it, with a whole spectrum of variation.

    My local Sutton Living Memory Facebook Group (16k members) tells me oodles of recent local history.
    This morning Nottingham Cycle Chat (private, 1000 members) has told me about a new cafe in Shipley Country Park and which Nottingham Cycle Parking facilities have a history of scrotes stealing things.
    Cycling UK Canals and Rivers (50k members iirc) has told me other things.
    And the Omnipod 5 user group (4k and growing rapidly) is educating me about the wrinkles of my new capsule insulin pumps.
    The Leeanderthal Man's group is obviously full of Leeanderthal men.
    And my various family and friends networks keep me in touch. Too many adoring photos of one relative's Shit-Pooh dog, however.

    The issue with Twitter is systemic, with all pretence of being a neutral service provider abandoned. It's like swimming in a river where the water company is forever releasing raw sewage. There is an opportunity to make something better without the sewage, so I will support it with my small contribution. If Elon Musk wants me to be his plaything, he can go and fuck himself.
    Social media is a tool. Use it well, and it can be fun, engaging and informative. Use it badly, and it can be annoying, discontenting and misinformative. I like Facebook, because it allows me to keep track of far-flung family and friends and mutual interest groups (e.g. trains, pathetic triathletes...)

    But Twix is rapidly becoming a Torx screwdriver that has become mangled after an idiot has tried to use it on too many Phillips heads screws. It's still a tool, but pretty useless for anything other than a shank.
    Twitter has been completely unusable for a while now. I remember the good old days (2009-2014ish) when you would follow people with similar interests and spark up a conversation. You'd even meet some of them IRL at 'tweetups' and become friends.

    I exchanged information and met up with industry peers at a few IRL events, bonded with people over similar music tastes, shared random memes and funnies.

    Then the rot set in. And by rot, I mean politics. It corrodes everything it touches. Once twitter hit the tipping point of being mostly politics, slowly, all the people using it for other reasons left. Eventually it just became arguments and porn bots.

    Bluesky is useful because of its blocklist feature. Meaning you can have, say, a discussion on queer literature without some knuckle dragger turning the thread into a DID U KNO THER R ONLY 2 GENDARS? and turning the whole discussion into a flaming dumpster fire. Not everything has to be about politics, all of the time. Sometimes, you just wanna talk about books.

    Where Bluesky is bad is that it's 2014-Tumblr redux. A coterie of hard-left radicals who pile on to anyone who doesn't share their views who are the second cheek of the same arse of the MAGA types who make Twitter unusable. Bluesky has a "this is a space for leftists" culture and if you don't meet the purity test, you'll quickly end up blocked.

    It's worth pointing out that the second most blocked person on Bluesky at the moment is Brianna Wu, who you may remember as the trans woman who got brigaded on twitter a decade ago by far right morons in 'gamergate'. Now she's getting hassled by the far left for daring to suggest that their absolutist views are harming trans rights. She's also pro-Israel. Truly, the revolution eating its own children.

    I like PB because it enables me to compartmentalise political debate - I don't talk politics elsewhere online, or ever in real life. The problem is everyone wants to turn everywhere online into a political slanging match. Imagine everyone turning every forum everywhere into non-stop football talk. When you just want to share recipes for cake. Eventually the politics corrodes everything, making 'general purpose' public spaces utterly useless for anything other than politics, forcing people into highly moderated niche forums, subreddits, discord channels, etc, to discuss other topics.

    TL;DR. Even with strong moderation, social media is probably dead as a means of communicating *anything* except political hatred for the other side.
    Excellent post, but I think you go too far. For instance I am on PB (too much) and currently Netweather. The biggest issues on both sites? For PB its the consumption of exotic yellow fruit on artisanal Italian flat bread on the other its peoples constant imbyism about whether it will snow or nor.

    Like the old adage - if you meet one arsehole in your day, bad luck, you met an arsehole. If you meet lots of arseholes, then maybe its you? I don't see the issues with twitter that others do, and Facebook etc seems fine.
    Facebook has been a dead platform since 2016 - around the time of the Presidential Election. Politics drove most people off the site, and it's never recovered. I have a few hundred 'friends' on there and not a single one posts with any kind of regularity any more. The occasional round robin type 'look at my lovely child's first day in school' post. I check it maybe once every couple of weeks. It's a generational thing, I think. I think only people 60+ use it.

    The problem with Twitter is it's impossible to have a civil conversation about anything as a) all the people who don't want to argue politics left long ago and b) all the people who do want to argue politics think because it's an open forum, they can just wander in and start bombarding you with their pet obsessions. Effectively derailing what could have otherwise been interesting discussions. Imagine Leon brigading this forum with AI posts constantly when you're trying to talk about politics. That's what Twitter has become, but in reverse. Bluesky is going the same way, but with a more leftist bent.

    I stand by my idea that 'open' social media is dead and political argument drives out all others until the platform is dead. An enshittification cycle, sort of like the 4channification cycle, where something starts out cool and underground, develops a wider userbase, then the nazis and pornbots move in, everyone else moves out, until there's only nazis and pornbots left.
    The BIB is an important clarification. I think Facebook still has lots more users than you imagine. The local sits such as Spotted in X etc always seem to have plenty going.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,150
    Biden rather than Harris' favourability ratings seem to have been more indicative of the result so we should probably look at Trump's ratings in 2028 rather than Vance.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    No. I disagree. That may be your view, or a deliberate bit of hyperbole for a Monday breakfast time.

    I'm more with social media is what we collectively make of it, with a whole spectrum of variation.

    My local Sutton Living Memory Facebook Group (16k members) tells me oodles of recent local history.
    This morning Nottingham Cycle Chat (private, 1000 members) has told me about a new cafe in Shipley Country Park and which Nottingham Cycle Parking facilities have a history of scrotes stealing things.
    Cycling UK Canals and Rivers (50k members iirc) has told me other things.
    And the Omnipod 5 user group (4k and growing rapidly) is educating me about the wrinkles of my new capsule insulin pumps.
    The Leeanderthal Man's group is obviously full of Leeanderthal men.
    And my various family and friends networks keep me in touch. Too many adoring photos of one relative's Shit-Pooh dog, however.

    The issue with Twitter is systemic, with all pretence of being a neutral service provider abandoned. It's like swimming in a river where the water company is forever releasing raw sewage. There is an opportunity to make something better without the sewage, so I will support it with my small contribution. If Elon Musk wants me to be his plaything, he can go and fuck himself.
    Social media is a tool. Use it well, and it can be fun, engaging and informative. Use it badly, and it can be annoying, discontenting and misinformative. I like Facebook, because it allows me to keep track of far-flung family and friends and mutual interest groups (e.g. trains, pathetic triathletes...)

    But Twix is rapidly becoming a Torx screwdriver that has become mangled after an idiot has tried to use it on too many Phillips heads screws. It's still a tool, but pretty useless for anything other than a shank.
    Twitter has been completely unusable for a while now. I remember the good old days (2009-2014ish) when you would follow people with similar interests and spark up a conversation. You'd even meet some of them IRL at 'tweetups' and become friends.

    I exchanged information and met up with industry peers at a few IRL events, bonded with people over similar music tastes, shared random memes and funnies.

    Then the rot set in. And by rot, I mean politics. It corrodes everything it touches. Once twitter hit the tipping point of being mostly politics, slowly, all the people using it for other reasons left. Eventually it just became arguments and porn bots.

    Bluesky is useful because of its blocklist feature. Meaning you can have, say, a discussion on queer literature without some knuckle dragger turning the thread into a DID U KNO THER R ONLY 2 GENDARS? and turning the whole discussion into a flaming dumpster fire. Not everything has to be about politics, all of the time. Sometimes, you just wanna talk about books.

    Where Bluesky is bad is that it's 2014-Tumblr redux. A coterie of hard-left radicals who pile on to anyone who doesn't share their views who are the second cheek of the same arse of the MAGA types who make Twitter unusable. Bluesky has a "this is a space for leftists" culture and if you don't meet the purity test, you'll quickly end up blocked.

    It's worth pointing out that the second most blocked person on Bluesky at the moment is Brianna Wu, who you may remember as the trans woman who got brigaded on twitter a decade ago by far right morons in 'gamergate'. Now she's getting hassled by the far left for daring to suggest that their absolutist views are harming trans rights. She's also pro-Israel. Truly, the revolution eating its own children.

    I like PB because it enables me to compartmentalise political debate - I don't talk politics elsewhere online, or ever in real life. The problem is everyone wants to turn everywhere online into a political slanging match. Imagine everyone turning every forum everywhere into non-stop football talk. When you just want to share recipes for cake. Eventually the politics corrodes everything, making 'general purpose' public spaces utterly useless for anything other than politics, forcing people into highly moderated niche forums, subreddits, discord channels, etc, to discuss other topics.

    TL;DR. Even with strong moderation, social media is probably dead as a means of communicating *anything* except political hatred for the other side.
    Excellent post, but I think you go too far. For instance I am on PB (too much) and currently Netweather. The biggest issues on both sites? For PB its the consumption of exotic yellow fruit on artisanal Italian flat bread on the other its peoples constant imbyism about whether it will snow or nor.

    Like the old adage - if you meet one arsehole in your day, bad luck, you met an arsehole. If you meet lots of arseholes, then maybe its you? I don't see the issues with twitter that others do, and Facebook etc seems fine.
    Facebook has been a dead platform since 2016 - around the time of the Presidential Election. Politics drove most people off the site, and it's never recovered. I have a few hundred 'friends' on there and not a single one posts with any kind of regularity any more. The occasional round robin type 'look at my lovely child's first day in school' post. I check it maybe once every couple of weeks. It's a generational thing, I think. I think only people 60+ use it.

    The problem with Twitter is it's impossible to have a civil conversation about anything as a) all the people who don't want to argue politics left long ago and b) all the people who do want to argue politics think because it's an open forum, they can just wander in and start bombarding you with their pet obsessions. Effectively derailing what could have otherwise been interesting discussions. Imagine Leon brigading this forum with AI posts constantly when you're trying to talk about politics. That's what Twitter has become, but in reverse. Bluesky is going the same way, but with a more leftist bent.

    I stand by my idea that 'open' social media is dead and political argument drives out all others until the platform is dead. An enshittification cycle, sort of like the 4channification cycle, where something starts out cool and underground, develops a wider userbase, then the nazis and pornbots move in, everyone else moves out, until there's only nazis and pornbots left.
    The BIB is an important clarification. I think Facebook still has lots more users than you imagine. The local sits such as Spotted in X etc always seem to have plenty going.
    Facebook marketplace is also very successful - granted personal posting may be down but that is because the groups have taken over..
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,235

    Nigelb said:

    Having had a kidney problem misdiagnosed by a doctor who specialised in the condition he misdiagnosed for me, I can well believe this.
    (Caveat, it's only a small study, so far from conclusive.)

    https://x.com/kimmonismus/status/1858208537869951318
    Study Finds ChatGPT Outperforms Doctors at Diagnosing Illness

    In a surprising small-scale study, ChatGPT-4 outperformed doctors at diagnosing medical cases, even when those doctors had access to the same chatbot. Published in JAMA Network Open, the study tested 50 physicians on six challenging medical cases. The chatbot scored 90%, compared to 76% for doctors using ChatGPT and 74% for those relying only on conventional resources.

    The findings highlight three critical issues:
    1. Human Bias: Many doctors clung to their initial diagnoses, even when the chatbot suggested alternatives with better reasoning.
    2. Underutilization: Most physicians used ChatGPT for targeted questions, failing to exploit its ability to analyze entire case histories comprehensively.
    3. Trust Gap: Despite ChatGPT’s superior performance, skepticism remains about integrating A.I. into clinical workflows...

    Of course technology has moved on apace but the failure of IBM's Watson AI in leading American hospitals should be remembered. Just ten years ago, it was the future of medicine.
    Theator is pretty cool though

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,235
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
    At least one of the high window falls has got to be something other than murder, sure.
    5% chance ?
    I’m convinced that occasionally Putin chooses a modestly high profile but inoffensive random to defenestrate just to keep everyone on their toes

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,006
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    North Korea may deploy up to 100,000 troops to help Russia in its war against Ukraine, Bloomberg reports, citing its own sources. The sources said that such a number of troops would be deployed if cooperation between Pyongyang and Moscow continues to deepen.
    https://x.com/Hromadske/status/1858246230570393958

    All this is an absolute gift for North Korea. They're getting brought in from the cold now and are untouchable internationally. Not so great for its soldiers but since when did that bother Pyongyang?

    Presumably this is also with the clear say-so of China. Using North Korea as a proxy for direct support to Russia in Ukraine.
    I'm not so sure about the Chinese approval.
    It's possible, but there are other considerations.

    NK's value to China is as a client state, and a buffer between it and the west (ie S Korea).
    If it drifts into Moscow's orbit, that's an unwelcome development.
  • kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    No. I disagree. That may be your view, or a deliberate bit of hyperbole for a Monday breakfast time.

    I'm more with social media is what we collectively make of it, with a whole spectrum of variation.

    My local Sutton Living Memory Facebook Group (16k members) tells me oodles of recent local history.
    This morning Nottingham Cycle Chat (private, 1000 members) has told me about a new cafe in Shipley Country Park and which Nottingham Cycle Parking facilities have a history of scrotes stealing things.
    Cycling UK Canals and Rivers (50k members iirc) has told me other things.
    And the Omnipod 5 user group (4k and growing rapidly) is educating me about the wrinkles of my new capsule insulin pumps.
    The Leeanderthal Man's group is obviously full of Leeanderthal men.
    And my various family and friends networks keep me in touch. Too many adoring photos of one relative's Shit-Pooh dog, however.

    The issue with Twitter is systemic, with all pretence of being a neutral service provider abandoned. It's like swimming in a river where the water company is forever releasing raw sewage. There is an opportunity to make something better without the sewage, so I will support it with my small contribution. If Elon Musk wants me to be his plaything, he can go and fuck himself.
    Social media is a tool. Use it well, and it can be fun, engaging and informative. Use it badly, and it can be annoying, discontenting and misinformative. I like Facebook, because it allows me to keep track of far-flung family and friends and mutual interest groups (e.g. trains, pathetic triathletes...)

    But Twix is rapidly becoming a Torx screwdriver that has become mangled after an idiot has tried to use it on too many Phillips heads screws. It's still a tool, but pretty useless for anything other than a shank.
    Twitter has been completely unusable for a while now. I remember the good old days (2009-2014ish) when you would follow people with similar interests and spark up a conversation. You'd even meet some of them IRL at 'tweetups' and become friends.

    I exchanged information and met up with industry peers at a few IRL events, bonded with people over similar music tastes, shared random memes and funnies.

    Then the rot set in. And by rot, I mean politics. It corrodes everything it touches. Once twitter hit the tipping point of being mostly politics, slowly, all the people using it for other reasons left. Eventually it just became arguments and porn bots.

    Bluesky is useful because of its blocklist feature. Meaning you can have, say, a discussion on queer literature without some knuckle dragger turning the thread into a DID U KNO THER R ONLY 2 GENDARS? and turning the whole discussion into a flaming dumpster fire. Not everything has to be about politics, all of the time. Sometimes, you just wanna talk about books.

    Where Bluesky is bad is that it's 2014-Tumblr redux. A coterie of hard-left radicals who pile on to anyone who doesn't share their views who are the second cheek of the same arse of the MAGA types who make Twitter unusable. Bluesky has a "this is a space for leftists" culture and if you don't meet the purity test, you'll quickly end up blocked.

    It's worth pointing out that the second most blocked person on Bluesky at the moment is Brianna Wu, who you may remember as the trans woman who got brigaded on twitter a decade ago by far right morons in 'gamergate'. Now she's getting hassled by the far left for daring to suggest that their absolutist views are harming trans rights. She's also pro-Israel. Truly, the revolution eating its own children.

    I like PB because it enables me to compartmentalise political debate - I don't talk politics elsewhere online, or ever in real life. The problem is everyone wants to turn everywhere online into a political slanging match. Imagine everyone turning every forum everywhere into non-stop football talk. When you just want to share recipes for cake. Eventually the politics corrodes everything, making 'general purpose' public spaces utterly useless for anything other than politics, forcing people into highly moderated niche forums, subreddits, discord channels, etc, to discuss other topics.

    TL;DR. Even with strong moderation, social media is probably dead as a means of communicating *anything* except political hatred for the other side.
    Excellent post, but I think you go too far. For instance I am on PB (too much) and currently Netweather. The biggest issues on both sites? For PB its the consumption of exotic yellow fruit on artisanal Italian flat bread on the other its peoples constant imbyism about whether it will snow or nor.

    Like the old adage - if you meet one arsehole in your day, bad luck, you met an arsehole. If you meet lots of arseholes, then maybe its you? I don't see the issues with twitter that others do, and Facebook etc seems fine.
    Facebook has been a dead platform since 2016 - around the time of the Presidential Election. Politics drove most people off the site, and it's never recovered. I have a few hundred 'friends' on there and not a single one posts with any kind of regularity any more. The occasional round robin type 'look at my lovely child's first day in school' post. I check it maybe once every couple of weeks. It's a generational thing, I think. I think only people 60+ use it.

    The problem with Twitter is it's impossible to have a civil conversation about anything as a) all the people who don't want to argue politics left long ago and b) all the people who do want to argue politics think because it's an open forum, they can just wander in and start bombarding you with their pet obsessions. Effectively derailing what could have otherwise been interesting discussions. Imagine Leon brigading this forum with AI posts constantly when you're trying to talk about politics. That's what Twitter has become, but in reverse. Bluesky is going the same way, but with a more leftist bent.

    I stand by my idea that 'open' social media is dead and political argument drives out all others until the platform is dead. An enshittification cycle, sort of like the 4channification cycle, where something starts out cool and underground, develops a wider userbase, then the nazis and pornbots move in, everyone else moves out, until there's only nazis and pornbots left.
    Funny. I have dozens of posts every day from friends, work colleagues and people with whom I share interests. My problem with FB is there are so many posts I want to see that I have problems with the FB algorithms prioritising some over others. Both my children (17 and 24) are active FB users as are plenty of their friends. I am also friends with probably half a dozen PB regulars on there. Sean Fear and I regularly disagree on non politics subjects on there :). It is a very long way from being dead.

    From Herd Digital amalysis:

    44% of the UK population use Facebook daily.
    Facebook has 44.84 million users in the UK.
    The average user spends 23 minutes on Facebook every day.
    With 11.2 million users, the age group 25 to 34 is the most active on Facebook in the UK.
    Users between the ages of 18 and 24 have decreased from 24% in 2012 to 16% in 2020.
    The number of users aged 65+ has increased from 4% in 2019 to 9% in 2020.
    52% of Facebook users in the UK are women and 48% are men.
    Facebook is the most popular social network globally.
    Compared to other countries, India has the most Facebook users with 320 million.
    In the Q3 of 2021, Facebook had 2.8 billion daily active users.
    With 11.2 billion visits, Facebook is the world’s third most popular website.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,006
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    No. I disagree. That may be your view, or a deliberate bit of hyperbole for a Monday breakfast time.

    I'm more with social media is what we collectively make of it, with a whole spectrum of variation.

    My local Sutton Living Memory Facebook Group (16k members) tells me oodles of recent local history.
    This morning Nottingham Cycle Chat (private, 1000 members) has told me about a new cafe in Shipley Country Park and which Nottingham Cycle Parking facilities have a history of scrotes stealing things.
    Cycling UK Canals and Rivers (50k members iirc) has told me other things.
    And the Omnipod 5 user group (4k and growing rapidly) is educating me about the wrinkles of my new capsule insulin pumps.
    The Leeanderthal Man's group is obviously full of Leeanderthal men.
    And my various family and friends networks keep me in touch. Too many adoring photos of one relative's Shit-Pooh dog, however.

    The issue with Twitter is systemic, with all pretence of being a neutral service provider abandoned. It's like swimming in a river where the water company is forever releasing raw sewage. There is an opportunity to make something better without the sewage, so I will support it with my small contribution. If Elon Musk wants me to be his plaything, he can go and fuck himself.
    Social media is a tool. Use it well, and it can be fun, engaging and informative. Use it badly, and it can be annoying, discontenting and misinformative. I like Facebook, because it allows me to keep track of far-flung family and friends and mutual interest groups (e.g. trains, pathetic triathletes...)

    But Twix is rapidly becoming a Torx screwdriver that has become mangled after an idiot has tried to use it on too many Phillips heads screws. It's still a tool, but pretty useless for anything other than a shank.
    Twitter has been completely unusable for a while now. I remember the good old days (2009-2014ish) when you would follow people with similar interests and spark up a conversation. You'd even meet some of them IRL at 'tweetups' and become friends.

    I exchanged information and met up with industry peers at a few IRL events, bonded with people over similar music tastes, shared random memes and funnies.

    Then the rot set in. And by rot, I mean politics. It corrodes everything it touches. Once twitter hit the tipping point of being mostly politics, slowly, all the people using it for other reasons left. Eventually it just became arguments and porn bots.

    Bluesky is useful because of its blocklist feature. Meaning you can have, say, a discussion on queer literature without some knuckle dragger turning the thread into a DID U KNO THER R ONLY 2 GENDARS? and turning the whole discussion into a flaming dumpster fire. Not everything has to be about politics, all of the time. Sometimes, you just wanna talk about books.

    Where Bluesky is bad is that it's 2014-Tumblr redux. A coterie of hard-left radicals who pile on to anyone who doesn't share their views who are the second cheek of the same arse of the MAGA types who make Twitter unusable. Bluesky has a "this is a space for leftists" culture and if you don't meet the purity test, you'll quickly end up blocked.

    It's worth pointing out that the second most blocked person on Bluesky at the moment is Brianna Wu, who you may remember as the trans woman who got brigaded on twitter a decade ago by far right morons in 'gamergate'. Now she's getting hassled by the far left for daring to suggest that their absolutist views are harming trans rights. She's also pro-Israel. Truly, the revolution eating its own children.

    I like PB because it enables me to compartmentalise political debate - I don't talk politics elsewhere online, or ever in real life. The problem is everyone wants to turn everywhere online into a political slanging match. Imagine everyone turning every forum everywhere into non-stop football talk. When you just want to share recipes for cake. Eventually the politics corrodes everything, making 'general purpose' public spaces utterly useless for anything other than politics, forcing people into highly moderated niche forums, subreddits, discord channels, etc, to discuss other topics.

    TL;DR. Even with strong moderation, social media is probably dead as a means of communicating *anything* except political hatred for the other side.
    Excellent post, but I think you go too far. For instance I am on PB (too much) and currently Netweather. The biggest issues on both sites? For PB its the consumption of exotic yellow fruit on artisanal Italian flat bread on the other its peoples constant imbyism about whether it will snow or nor.

    Like the old adage - if you meet one arsehole in your day, bad luck, you met an arsehole. If you meet lots of arseholes, then maybe its you? I don't see the issues with twitter that others do, and Facebook etc seems fine.
    Facebook has been a dead platform since 2016 - around the time of the Presidential Election. Politics drove most people off the site, and it's never recovered. I have a few hundred 'friends' on there and not a single one posts with any kind of regularity any more. The occasional round robin type 'look at my lovely child's first day in school' post. I check it maybe once every couple of weeks. It's a generational thing, I think. I think only people 60+ use it.

    The problem with Twitter is it's impossible to have a civil conversation about anything as a) all the people who don't want to argue politics left long ago and b) all the people who do want to argue politics think because it's an open forum, they can just wander in and start bombarding you with their pet obsessions. Effectively derailing what could have otherwise been interesting discussions. Imagine Leon brigading this forum with AI posts constantly when you're trying to talk about politics. That's what Twitter has become, but in reverse. Bluesky is going the same way, but with a more leftist bent.

    I stand by my idea that 'open' social media is dead and political argument drives out all others until the platform is dead. An enshittification cycle, sort of like the 4channification cycle, where something starts out cool and underground, develops a wider userbase, then the nazis and pornbots move in, everyone else moves out, until there's only nazis and pornbots left.
    You're assuming there won't be some form of counterrevolution.
    There's clearly a market for an unshittified platform. So the chances are that one will, in time, evolve.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,006

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
    At least one of the high window falls has got to be something other than murder, sure.
    5% chance ?
    I’m convinced that occasionally Putin chooses a modestly high profile but inoffensive random to defenestrate just to keep everyone on their toes

    Leon should avoid revisiting Moscow.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,870
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
    Liam Payne had a similar incident a few weeks ago of course
    Really ??
    How did he piss Putin off ?
    I worry about our French house as we're starting to let it out to tourists next year, and the upstairs bedroom windows are huge and would be easy to climb out of if you were so inclined. I read that one of the members of Supergrass broke his back falling from a first floor bedroom window in a Provence holiday let. Hopefully the insurance will cover falling tourist risk.
    I hope it's not in Bellou Calvados. Yesterday was the anniversary of the death of my good friend and cameraman Michel Gemmell who fell off the roof of his house there 14 years ago. Here's one of his commercials. One of my favourites and a fitting tribute.....

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=millerlite.+he+aint+heavy+hes+my+brother#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:48d1f72d,vid:TvJyZ9fm73M,st:0
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,150
    We await the final counts, but the electoral college bias towards Trump/GOP is going to be very very small either way - a marked difference from the recent elections where there was quite a bias in favour of Trump.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,769
    I agree with North Korea and Russia cosying up not being something China wants. It wants North Korea as an impotent vassal, and Russia hooked on Chinese cash. The more North Korea and Russia support one another, the less they depend on China. And Russian weapons technology may also encourage Kim Jong-Un to have a crack at the South.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,714
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Having had a kidney problem misdiagnosed by a doctor who specialised in the condition he misdiagnosed for me, I can well believe this.
    (Caveat, it's only a small study, so far from conclusive.)

    https://x.com/kimmonismus/status/1858208537869951318
    Study Finds ChatGPT Outperforms Doctors at Diagnosing Illness

    In a surprising small-scale study, ChatGPT-4 outperformed doctors at diagnosing medical cases, even when those doctors had access to the same chatbot. Published in JAMA Network Open, the study tested 50 physicians on six challenging medical cases. The chatbot scored 90%, compared to 76% for doctors using ChatGPT and 74% for those relying only on conventional resources.

    The findings highlight three critical issues:
    1. Human Bias: Many doctors clung to their initial diagnoses, even when the chatbot suggested alternatives with better reasoning.
    2. Underutilization: Most physicians used ChatGPT for targeted questions, failing to exploit its ability to analyze entire case histories comprehensively.
    3. Trust Gap: Despite ChatGPT’s superior performance, skepticism remains about integrating A.I. into clinical workflows...

    I'd need to see the split of diagnoses there - does the ChatGPT just pick the most common that kind of matches the symptoms? If so, then it could do potentially do well on accuracy by consistently picking the most common diagnoses. Also have to consider the downsides of misdiagnoses in each case. Have to go and find the study to see what the measures were. When I have time.

    It may well be as impressive as it sounds, but I hate accuracy as a measure when you don't know the underlying distribution of things.

    Also, how did ChatGPT score 90% on six cases? Or did it get 300 goes (50 physicians x 6 cases) like the physicians?
    This seems to be the paper:
    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2825395

    Note "we built on previous studies of structured reflection by scoring the grid itself, not just final diagnosis accuracy" so the assessment was based on a diagnosis grid recording possible diagnoses and reasoning (which may well be a good way to do it, but is not the same as the tweet-implied outcome of getting it correct - at least, that's what I took the figures to mean). I can well believe that ChatGPT produces reams of text on all sensible diagnoses that would bump up the score assessed in this way.

    Still an interesting study.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,573
    edited November 18
    Justin Trudeau explains his shameless U-turn on immigration:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOB7-dbYuCc

    We’re making the system work for Canadians and for newcomers, rather than for the big box stores, chain restaurants, immigration consultants, and sham colleges that exploit it.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,242
    Nigelb said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    No. I disagree. That may be your view, or a deliberate bit of hyperbole for a Monday breakfast time.

    I'm more with social media is what we collectively make of it, with a whole spectrum of variation.

    My local Sutton Living Memory Facebook Group (16k members) tells me oodles of recent local history.
    This morning Nottingham Cycle Chat (private, 1000 members) has told me about a new cafe in Shipley Country Park and which Nottingham Cycle Parking facilities have a history of scrotes stealing things.
    Cycling UK Canals and Rivers (50k members iirc) has told me other things.
    And the Omnipod 5 user group (4k and growing rapidly) is educating me about the wrinkles of my new capsule insulin pumps.
    The Leeanderthal Man's group is obviously full of Leeanderthal men.
    And my various family and friends networks keep me in touch. Too many adoring photos of one relative's Shit-Pooh dog, however.

    The issue with Twitter is systemic, with all pretence of being a neutral service provider abandoned. It's like swimming in a river where the water company is forever releasing raw sewage. There is an opportunity to make something better without the sewage, so I will support it with my small contribution. If Elon Musk wants me to be his plaything, he can go and fuck himself.
    Social media is a tool. Use it well, and it can be fun, engaging and informative. Use it badly, and it can be annoying, discontenting and misinformative. I like Facebook, because it allows me to keep track of far-flung family and friends and mutual interest groups (e.g. trains, pathetic triathletes...)

    But Twix is rapidly becoming a Torx screwdriver that has become mangled after an idiot has tried to use it on too many Phillips heads screws. It's still a tool, but pretty useless for anything other than a shank.
    Twitter has been completely unusable for a while now. I remember the good old days (2009-2014ish) when you would follow people with similar interests and spark up a conversation. You'd even meet some of them IRL at 'tweetups' and become friends.

    I exchanged information and met up with industry peers at a few IRL events, bonded with people over similar music tastes, shared random memes and funnies.

    Then the rot set in. And by rot, I mean politics. It corrodes everything it touches. Once twitter hit the tipping point of being mostly politics, slowly, all the people using it for other reasons left. Eventually it just became arguments and porn bots.

    Bluesky is useful because of its blocklist feature. Meaning you can have, say, a discussion on queer literature without some knuckle dragger turning the thread into a DID U KNO THER R ONLY 2 GENDARS? and turning the whole discussion into a flaming dumpster fire. Not everything has to be about politics, all of the time. Sometimes, you just wanna talk about books.

    Where Bluesky is bad is that it's 2014-Tumblr redux. A coterie of hard-left radicals who pile on to anyone who doesn't share their views who are the second cheek of the same arse of the MAGA types who make Twitter unusable. Bluesky has a "this is a space for leftists" culture and if you don't meet the purity test, you'll quickly end up blocked.

    It's worth pointing out that the second most blocked person on Bluesky at the moment is Brianna Wu, who you may remember as the trans woman who got brigaded on twitter a decade ago by far right morons in 'gamergate'. Now she's getting hassled by the far left for daring to suggest that their absolutist views are harming trans rights. She's also pro-Israel. Truly, the revolution eating its own children.

    I like PB because it enables me to compartmentalise political debate - I don't talk politics elsewhere online, or ever in real life. The problem is everyone wants to turn everywhere online into a political slanging match. Imagine everyone turning every forum everywhere into non-stop football talk. When you just want to share recipes for cake. Eventually the politics corrodes everything, making 'general purpose' public spaces utterly useless for anything other than politics, forcing people into highly moderated niche forums, subreddits, discord channels, etc, to discuss other topics.

    TL;DR. Even with strong moderation, social media is probably dead as a means of communicating *anything* except political hatred for the other side.
    Excellent post, but I think you go too far. For instance I am on PB (too much) and currently Netweather. The biggest issues on both sites? For PB its the consumption of exotic yellow fruit on artisanal Italian flat bread on the other its peoples constant imbyism about whether it will snow or nor.

    Like the old adage - if you meet one arsehole in your day, bad luck, you met an arsehole. If you meet lots of arseholes, then maybe its you? I don't see the issues with twitter that others do, and Facebook etc seems fine.
    Facebook has been a dead platform since 2016 - around the time of the Presidential Election. Politics drove most people off the site, and it's never recovered. I have a few hundred 'friends' on there and not a single one posts with any kind of regularity any more. The occasional round robin type 'look at my lovely child's first day in school' post. I check it maybe once every couple of weeks. It's a generational thing, I think. I think only people 60+ use it.

    The problem with Twitter is it's impossible to have a civil conversation about anything as a) all the people who don't want to argue politics left long ago and b) all the people who do want to argue politics think because it's an open forum, they can just wander in and start bombarding you with their pet obsessions. Effectively derailing what could have otherwise been interesting discussions. Imagine Leon brigading this forum with AI posts constantly when you're trying to talk about politics. That's what Twitter has become, but in reverse. Bluesky is going the same way, but with a more leftist bent.

    I stand by my idea that 'open' social media is dead and political argument drives out all others until the platform is dead. An enshittification cycle, sort of like the 4channification cycle, where something starts out cool and underground, develops a wider userbase, then the nazis and pornbots move in, everyone else moves out, until there's only nazis and pornbots left.
    You're assuming there won't be some form of counterrevolution.
    There's clearly a market for an unshittified platform. So the chances are that one will, in time, evolve.
    In fairness to TwiX it just served up a video of a 1994 Eagles acoustic performance of Hotel California, which was a nice start to the week. Can't help feeling it's going to be downhill after that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,006
    edited November 18
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Having had a kidney problem misdiagnosed by a doctor who specialised in the condition he misdiagnosed for me, I can well believe this.
    (Caveat, it's only a small study, so far from conclusive.)

    https://x.com/kimmonismus/status/1858208537869951318
    Study Finds ChatGPT Outperforms Doctors at Diagnosing Illness

    In a surprising small-scale study, ChatGPT-4 outperformed doctors at diagnosing medical cases, even when those doctors had access to the same chatbot. Published in JAMA Network Open, the study tested 50 physicians on six challenging medical cases. The chatbot scored 90%, compared to 76% for doctors using ChatGPT and 74% for those relying only on conventional resources.

    The findings highlight three critical issues:
    1. Human Bias: Many doctors clung to their initial diagnoses, even when the chatbot suggested alternatives with better reasoning.
    2. Underutilization: Most physicians used ChatGPT for targeted questions, failing to exploit its ability to analyze entire case histories comprehensively.
    3. Trust Gap: Despite ChatGPT’s superior performance, skepticism remains about integrating A.I. into clinical workflows...

    I'd need to see the split of diagnoses there - does the ChatGPT just pick the most common that kind of matches the symptoms? If so, then it could do potentially do well on accuracy by consistently picking the most common diagnoses. Also have to consider the downsides of misdiagnoses in each case. Have to go and find the study to see what the measures were. When I have time.

    It may well be as impressive as it sounds, but I hate accuracy as a measure when you don't know the underlying distribution of things.

    Also, how did ChatGPT score 90% on six cases? Or did it get 300 goes (50 physicians x 6 cases) like the physicians?
    As far as the cases are concerned:
    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2825395
    ..Clinical vignettes were adapted from a landmark study that set the standard for the evaluation of computer-based diagnostic systems. All cases in this study were based on actual patients and included information available on initial diagnostic evaluation, such as history, physical examination, and laboratory test results. The cases have never been publicly released to protect the validity of the test materials for future use, and therefore are excluded from training data of the LLM...

    "Representative samples" here:
    https://cdn.jamanetwork.com/ama/content_public/journal/jamanetworkopen/939467/zoi241182supp2_prod_1729527081.368.pdf

    It would be interesting to see how it actually performed in a clinical setting, but that sort of trial would take a lot longer.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392

    I agree with North Korea and Russia cosying up not being something China wants. It wants North Korea as an impotent vassal, and Russia hooked on Chinese cash. The more North Korea and Russia support one another, the less they depend on China. And Russian weapons technology may also encourage Kim Jong-Un to have a crack at the South.

    I look forward to the sight of South Korean tanks rolling through the streets of Pyongyang
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,235
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
    At least one of the high window falls has got to be something other than murder, sure.
    5% chance ?
    I’m convinced that occasionally Putin chooses a modestly high profile but inoffensive random to defenestrate just to keep everyone on their toes

    Leon should avoid revisiting Moscow.
    @Leon fails at least 2 of my criteria

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,946
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
    At least one of the high window falls has got to be something other than murder, sure.
    5% chance ?
    I’m convinced that occasionally Putin chooses a modestly high profile but inoffensive random to defenestrate just to keep everyone on their toes

    Leon should avoid revisiting Moscow.
    Inoffensive?!

    Surely he’d be receiving a Hero of the Russian Federation medal for his pre SMO Putin rimming rather than an appointment with a balcony?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,927
    Twitter is absolutely without peer for on the spot footage of whatever event has just occurred. It showed the shooting at the Fishmongers/London Bridge, for example and generally, if disappointingly, has footage of just about anything serious and bad that happens from moments after and often as it is happening as someone had their camera out to take pictures of their local Budgens/the moon/whatever.

    It is also good for the following things:

    1. Reading what latest lunacy your political foes are thinking or pushing (eg James O'B, Owen J);
    2. Steve Inman's non-essential commentary; and
    3. The odd time spent doom-scrolling as long as strictly time-limited.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    Roger said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
    Liam Payne had a similar incident a few weeks ago of course
    Really ??
    How did he piss Putin off ?
    I worry about our French house as we're starting to let it out to tourists next year, and the upstairs bedroom windows are huge and would be easy to climb out of if you were so inclined. I read that one of the members of Supergrass broke his back falling from a first floor bedroom window in a Provence holiday let. Hopefully the insurance will cover falling tourist risk.
    I hope it's not in Bellou Calvados. Yesterday was the anniversary of the death of my good friend and cameraman Michel Gemmell who fell off the roof of his house there 14 years ago. Here's one of his commercials. One of my favourites and a fitting tribute.....

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=millerlite.+he+aint+heavy+hes+my+brother#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:48d1f72d,vid:TvJyZ9fm73M,st:0
    It's not, but gosh this sort of thing does seem to happen a lot. Your poor friend. A family friend of ours had a house in Calvados and broke (I think) his pelvis falling off a ladder. Was alone and stuck on the ground for hours before he managed to shout to a passer by on the road.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983

    I agree with North Korea and Russia cosying up not being something China wants. It wants North Korea as an impotent vassal, and Russia hooked on Chinese cash. The more North Korea and Russia support one another, the less they depend on China. And Russian weapons technology may also encourage Kim Jong-Un to have a crack at the South.

    I rather hope you're right. But given the asymmetrical power dynamic between Russia and China is seems inconceivable they would do this behind its back.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,714
    edited November 18
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
    At least one of the high window falls has got to be something other than murder, sure.
    5% chance ?
    I’m convinced that occasionally Putin chooses a modestly high profile but inoffensive random to defenestrate just to keep everyone on their toes

    Leon should avoid revisiting Moscow.
    Edited: heh, never mind, TUD beat me to it on Leon's inoffensiveness!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,714

    TimS said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    Or, on other platforms:

    1. To show off your wares/attributes/CV/pout
    2. To find a group of people who are sufficiently impressed
    Which is why LinkedIn gets hate for being Bad Social Media. Because it is a terrible platform for building a Belief Gang.
    I don't like it because I keep getting messages about coworkers, which I always, always, read as cow workers.
    Nonesense

    Cow *Orkers*

    This Is Known.
    I don’t think one should ork cows. It seems cruel.
    It's appropriate if they're giving you beef. Otherwise, I agree.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,769
    Mr. Topping, Twitter's also great for breaking sports news stories.

    Unsure if I got all this from that, but 2012 betting on Maldonado/Alonso to lead lap 1 in Spain, 2016 on Verstappen to win in Spain (251 winner), and many 2020 Sakhir bets (including Perez to win at 61) were all based on breaking news.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,235
    Selebian said:

    TimS said:

    Morning all.

    Social media polarisation at its worst again this morning. Bluesky, which I'd thoughtful, literate and considered on topics like literature and photography full of posts on Biden's missile policy along the lines "Let's go ! Now let's go faster and harder."

    Meanwhile, TwitterX has thousands of posts along the lines that it's all the work of Soros and the regime of "Sodom and Gomorrha".

    The 3 main functions of Social Media

    1) to display your beliefs like a mating peacock.
    2) to find a group of others to approve your beliefs
    3) to find a group of those opposed to you, so you can hate them.
    Or, on other platforms:

    1. To show off your wares/attributes/CV/pout
    2. To find a group of people who are sufficiently impressed
    Which is why LinkedIn gets hate for being Bad Social Media. Because it is a terrible platform for building a Belief Gang.
    I don't like it because I keep getting messages about coworkers, which I always, always, read as cow workers.
    Nonesense

    Cow *Orkers*

    This Is Known.
    I don’t think one should ork cows.
    It seems cruel.
    It's appropriate if they're giving you beef. Otherwise, I agree.
    You’re really milking this line aren’t you
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,927
    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    Quite remarkable!
    World leading ballet dancer, "loses his balance" on a fifth floor Moscow balcony.
    What were the odds?

    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/nov/18/vladimir-shklyarov-russian-ballet-star-dies-aged-39-after-falling-from-building

    I can't call that.

    Was he on Putin's possible death list for any reason?

    IIRC from my past reading of the Mitrokhin Archive, the KGB plotted to do things to Rudolf Nureyev after he defected.

    We need to remember and remind ourselves how evil are these regimes. (Yes, that's a moral judgement.)

    Or he just had an affair with the wrong person.

    Just as likely some random oligarch did it, rather than the state.
    Ballet dancer past his best, carrying a painful injury and facing major surgery? Any other nationality and I'd not want to rule out suicide.
    Liam Payne had a similar incident a few weeks ago of course
    Really ??
    How did he piss Putin off ?
    I worry about our French house as we're starting to let it out to tourists next year, and the upstairs bedroom windows are huge and would be easy to climb out of if you were so inclined. I read that one of the members of Supergrass broke his back falling from a first floor bedroom window in a Provence holiday let. Hopefully the insurance will cover falling tourist risk.
    I hope it's not in Bellou Calvados. Yesterday was the anniversary of the death of my good friend and cameraman Michel Gemmell who fell off the roof of his house there 14 years ago. Here's one of his commercials. One of my favourites and a fitting tribute.....

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=millerlite.+he+aint+heavy+hes+my+brother#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:48d1f72d,vid:TvJyZ9fm73M,st:0
    It's not, but gosh this sort of thing does seem to happen a lot. Your poor friend. A family friend of ours had a house in Calvados and broke (I think) his pelvis falling off a ladder. Was alone and stuck on the ground for hours before he managed to shout to a passer by on the road.
    Jesus how many times do I have to say this. Do you or your friends never watch 24 hrs in A&E?

    An absolutely golden rule for older blokes is never go up ladders, still less get onto a roof ffs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    Justin Trudeau explains his shameless U-turn on immigration:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOB7-dbYuCc

    We’re making the system work for Canadians and for newcomers, rather than for the big box stores, chain restaurants, immigration consultants, and sham colleges that exploit it.

    Shameless maybe but working to some degree.

    The latest poll from EKOS has the Liberals cutting the Conservative lead from 13% to 10% with the Liberals up to 28% and the Conservatives on 38% which would likely mean a hung parliament with the Conservatives most seats

    https://www.ekospolitics.com/index.php/2024/11/race-continues-to-tighten/
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,763

    https://x.com/michaellcrick/status/1858433696770273424

    These alleged false CV claims by Rachel Reeves are serious. Unless she can produce a good explanation, she should resign as Chancellor & MP - or be sacked. I know that won't happen, but brushing the allegations aside will only encourage others to make false claims.

    CVgate provides a good excuse for Starmer to replace Reeves as Chancellor but I doubt anyone really cares except for opportunistic partisans.
    He should take it because she's useless. £150bn more in borrowing and a lowering of the growth forecast. I don't think there's ever been such a large fiscal stimulus with a negative economic multiplier.
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