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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » UKIP drop 3pc into third place in new YouGov EP2014 poll

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited March 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » UKIP drop 3pc into third place in new YouGov EP2014 poll

This looks set to be low turnout election which presents a huge challenge for the pollsters. They might accurately reflect the pattern of support as is being told to them but everything depends on whether people actually do take the trouble to exercise their vote.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Hard to call? Not for me it aint!!!!
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    On UNS that makes

    Lab 27 (+14)
    Con 17 (-9)
    UKIP 17 (+4)
    LibDem 5 (-6)
    SNP 2 (nc)
    Green 1 (-1)
    Plaid 1 (nc)

    Btw, does anyone seriously think Labour are going to double their 2009 vote?
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Mind the gap!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Perhaps we've just seen peak Ukip.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Didn't OGH tip up the tories at 8/1. That's not looking too shabby, all of a sudden.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    FPT 'Dougie Alexander got stung on this on QT. When someone asked him about stagnant private sector wages he said 'well bankers are getting pay rises.'

    This is basically all that Ed has managed to write on his blank pieces of paper - 'Blame the Bankers'.

    Not much to show, is it.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    FPT 'Dougie Alexander got stung on this on QT. When someone asked him about stagnant private sector wages he said 'well bankers are getting pay rises.'

    This is basically all that Ed has managed to write on his blank pieces of paper - 'Blame the Bankers'.

    Not much to show, is it.

    Is that true - Still want to see a breakdown of wage rises excluding the banking sector...
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Good to see Bojo not letting one of his post May 2015 leadership opponents get all the headlines today:

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/boris-johnson-backs-met-in-bid-to-use-water-cannon-in-london-9201618.html

    Go Bojo!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    Mr. 1000, does France also have child benefit and similar things, or not?

    Yes. In fact the French system is incredibly generous. Which is why France is about the only country I can think of in the developed world where the fertility rate for graduates is around the 2 level.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    unioncity said:

    Tory Budget message in a nutshell. Well off pensioners, please don't vote UKIP. Everyone else go to hell.

    I sincerely hope that the Labour Party is stupid enough to run with that line.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Unioncity : and everyone saving into a pension...
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    RodCrosby said:

    On UNS that makes

    Lab 27 (+14)
    Con 17 (-9)
    UKIP 17 (+4)
    LibDem 5 (-6)
    SNP 2 (nc)
    Green 1 (-1)
    Plaid 1 (nc)

    Btw, does anyone seriously think Labour are going to double their 2009 vote?

    Has there been more than one euro election since postal voting came in to see if there's been steady jumps in Lab votes since then?
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    TGOHF said:

    Unioncity : and everyone saving into a pension...

    Evil Toffs!


  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Unioncity : and everyone saving into a pension...

    Evil Toffs!



    Of course core Labour vote have final salary pensions - they don't seem to care about us poor souls stuck on defined contributions..
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    those who will benefit most are older and have some money to put aside.

    If you think about it, that isn't true at all. George Osborne has made pensions more flexible, yes, but he isn't putting more money into the pensions pot. He's just making the whole system more flexible.

    The people who are getting more money are the low paid and working couples who are planning children.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @GeneralBoles: Miliband's just watched his reply to George Osborne #Budget2014 http://t.co/MTJDOaSoR9
  • BlueberryBlueberry Posts: 408
    edited March 2014
    Good for Georgie losing a few pounds. I think people will pick up on that subconsciously more than the numbers and have more respect for what he says because he's personifying the characteristics of good economic management. If that's not too tenuous.
  • SchardsSchards Posts: 210
    unioncity said:

    Tory Budget message in a nutshell. Well off pensioners, please don't vote UKIP. Everyone else go to hell.

    From Nick Robinson

    Those who will benefit most are older and have some money to put aside.

    They're people who've seen their savings eroded by historically low interest rates and see little prospect of that changing. Many will be 40p tax rate payers who've gained least from the series of increases to the personal tax allowance.

    A group you might think that sounds very like the kind of people who've drifted away from the Conservative Party.



    This is nonsense, as a constituency, the number of pensioners who are 40% tax payers are absolutely trivial.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    unioncity said:

    On my god is this some sort of sick joke?

    twitter.com/grantshapps/status/446363611972534272/photo/1

    Only if you're a Scouser.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    My instinct is the Budget will not have a particularly beneficial effect for the Tories. In my opinion, it's a mistake for politicians to think normal people treat politics like they're shopping for the best "deal" -- most people are not going to think "oh, bingo's a bit cheaper, I'll vote for them now!" You need to put across a consistent theme and message. Even if people benefit from specific measures, they won't necessarily buy into you unless they're all wrapped up with a clear sense of purpose - and conversely, people who are actively hit by your measures might vote for you if you convince them of it (lord knows there were plenty of people who nominally were screwed over by Thatcher, but still voted for her because they were convinced by the narrative that she was "doing what had to be done to put Britain back on its feet").

    The Conservatives had two choices of narrative with this budget: they could've said "the economic troubles are over, so it's time for everyone to get some rewards for their hard work over the past few years". Or they could've said "sorry, there's still further to go, so there's no goodies yet". In the event, they went for neither, they dished out a few goodies yet still at the same time kept up their rhetoric of the need for further cuts and how the work wasn't done. At best, that will come across as an incoherent jumble, and at worst it looks like a cynical attempt to win votes, which would not leave people impressed even if they benefitted.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    MrJones said:

    RodCrosby said:

    On UNS that makes

    Lab 27 (+14)
    Con 17 (-9)
    UKIP 17 (+4)
    LibDem 5 (-6)
    SNP 2 (nc)
    Green 1 (-1)
    Plaid 1 (nc)

    Btw, does anyone seriously think Labour are going to double their 2009 vote?

    Has there been more than one euro election since postal voting came in to see if there's been steady jumps in Lab votes since then?
    More generally Lab votes always used to be lower when it didn't matter as much e.g. council vote going up and down a lot depending on if there was a general election at the same time.

    That gap should have been reduced by postal votes and I'd have thought it would be possible to calculate the average effect.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    I am surprised UKIP are not doing better on this one, and especially that Labour are doing os well, but I suppose it's a reflection GE polling to a certain degree.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Grant Shapps needs to be fired.

    What exactly is it that hard working people do that you don't Tories. Horrific own goal.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    IOS said:

    Grant Shapps needs to be fired.

    What exactly is it that hard working people do that you don't Tories. Horrific own goal.

    When Labour's moans are about a tweet not the budget that tells a story..
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Danny565 said:

    My instinct is the Budget will not have a particularly beneficial effect for the Tories. In my opinion, it's a mistake for politicians to think normal people treat politics like they're shopping for the best "deal" -- most people are not going to think "oh, bingo's a bit cheaper, I'll vote for them now!" You need to put across a consistent theme and message. Even if people benefit from specific measures, they won't necessarily buy into you unless they're all wrapped up with a clear sense of purpose - and conversely, people who are actively hit by your measures might vote for you if you convince them of it (lord knows there were plenty of people who nominally were screwed over by Thatcher, but still voted for her because they were convinced by the narrative that she was "doing what had to be done to put Britain back on its feet").

    The Conservatives had two choices of narrative with this budget: they could've said "the economic troubles are over, so it's time for everyone to get some rewards for their hard work over the past few years". Or they could've said "sorry, there's still further to go, so there's no goodies yet". In the event, they went for neither, they dished out a few goodies yet still at the same time kept up their rhetoric of the need for further cuts and how the work wasn't done. At best, that will come across as an incoherent jumble, and at worst it looks like a cynical attempt to win votes, which would not leave people impressed even if they benefitted.

    Some interesting thoughts. I wouldn't be surprised if the Tories have a light bump for a little bit, but your view of the narrative and that people need a consistent theme and message more than small specific measures aimed at pleasing them, are quite convincing I feel.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    kle4 said:

    I am surprised UKIP are not doing better on this one, and especially that Labour are doing os well, but I suppose it's a reflection GE polling to a certain degree.

    Some of the Con vote used to think it was harmless to vote Ukip at the Euros.
  • SchardsSchards Posts: 210
    I sincerely hope the budget response from Ed will have dispelled any doubts in tory minds about taking part in election debates. Miliband, once again, demonstrated his total inability to think on his feet, choosing to stay in the comfort zone of pre scripted cheap shots rather than make any reference to the speech he'd just heard. This inability would be laid bare in the debates.

    And it stems from his sheer vaccuousness. A conviction politician would have had something to say because they'd have an opinion on what they had just heard. Miliband has no principles or convictions, he will say whatever will garner votes and, without the opportunity to consider what stances may prove most popular instead chose to say nothing. In the biggest political set piece of the year, he had literally nothing to say about the budget. He is not fit to be a leader of anything, let alone the country.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    IOS said:

    Grant Shapps needs to be fired.

    What exactly is it that hard working people do that you don't Tories. Horrific own goal.

    No, just a bit silly.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    O/t Traded out a bit on Man U at near evens after that de Gea save. Now have free bet on Utd.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited March 2014
    IOS said:

    Grant Shapps needs to be fired.

    What exactly is it that hard working people do that you don't Tories. Horrific own goal.

    Hard working people save money when they can, and put something into pensions for their future.

    Many Labour supporters would appear to think that makes them undeserving.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I think that the narrative is neither of these. The combination of austerity squeeze on welfare, higher tax thresholds, tax deductible child care and encouragement to save is a consistent one.

    Those that work hard and behave responsibly will see the fruits of their efforts.

    This was a good coalition budget by George and Danny. It also is most definitely a coalition budget, with very little fighting between the parties, at least little visible fighting.
    Danny565 said:

    My instinct is the Budget will not have a particularly beneficial effect for the Tories. In my opinion, it's a mistake for politicians to think normal people treat politics like they're shopping for the best "deal" -- most people are not going to think "oh, bingo's a bit cheaper, I'll vote for them now!" You need to put across a consistent theme and message. Even if people benefit from specific measures, they won't necessarily buy into you unless they're all wrapped up with a clear sense of purpose - and conversely, people who are actively hit by your measures might vote for you if you convince them of it (lord knows there were plenty of people who nominally were screwed over by Thatcher, but still voted for her because they were convinced by the narrative that she was "doing what had to be done to put Britain back on its feet").

    The Conservatives had two choices of narrative with this budget: they could've said "the economic troubles are over, so it's time for everyone to get some rewards for their hard work over the past few years". Or they could've said "sorry, there's still further to go, so there's no goodies yet". In the event, they went for neither, they dished out a few goodies yet still at the same time kept up their rhetoric of the need for further cuts and how the work wasn't done. At best, that will come across as an incoherent jumble, and at worst it looks like a cynical attempt to win votes, which would not leave people impressed even if they benefitted.

  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    Great save(s) by de Gea there....
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    IOS said:

    Grant Shapps needs to be fired.

    What exactly is it that hard working people do that you don't Tories. Horrific own goal.

    No, he needs to personally oversee every aspect of the election campaign.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    I'm quite astounded by the Shapps stuff.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited March 2014
    @adamboultonSKY: Labour's Budget lines to take - you won't be surprised. http://t.co/60rY2Pyup7
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Schards said:

    I sincerely hope the budget response from Ed will have dispelled any doubts in tory minds about taking part in election debates. Miliband, once again, demonstrated his total inability to think on his feet, choosing to stay in the comfort zone of pre scripted cheap shots rather than make any reference to the speech he'd just heard. This inability would be laid bare in the debates.

    And it stems from his sheer vaccuousness. A conviction politician would have had something to say because they'd have an opinion on what they had just heard. Miliband has no principles or convictions, he will say whatever will garner votes and, without the opportunity to consider what stances may prove most popular instead chose to say nothing. In the biggest political set piece of the year, he had literally nothing to say about the budget. He is not fit to be a leader of anything, let alone the country.

    I don't think it's vacuousness. I think he can be lazy. Every now and then he comes up with a pretty bold and canny move that has the Tories scrambling, but other times he seems like he's confident of a Labour majority and so goes for the least risky option. He didn't even both to try and mix up and attempt to make fresh the cliched attack lines it appears, and the reporting of it (couldn't watch it live) made it seem like they were trotted out like a bullet pointed list he was obliged to fill out. It's not easy to have a few common soundbites and fit them in with a little more natural style, so he's not alone in not managing it, but those moments of boldness and action from him make me think he could do so if he just risked going big and bold a little more often, rather than play safe and stick with what works. He could win big, as it is he will probably just win.

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    BobaFett said:

    I'm quite astounded by the Shapps stuff.

    You're easily offended.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Not a very leaked budget for a change apparently. Something to be welcomed by all perhaps, though it puts pressure on both sides that they have to get it right on the day itself, without time to set up a detailed narrative.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    BobaFett said:

    I'm quite astounded by the Shapps stuff.

    Bet looking good Utd now 1.55
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Shapps is just a disaster at running the Tories election machine. The fact that he let that go out speak volumes. There is not a single floating voter that is going to be won over by a bloody twitter pic. Not one.

    And yet instead of trying to sort out their campaigning infrastructure he is d!cking around creating stuff that no one reads. He then does it so badly that it plays into the narrative that the Tories haven't got a clue.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    @adamboultonSKY: Labour's Budget lines to take - you won't be surprised. http://t.co/60rY2Pyup7

    I fail to see how having a 10p rate is better than a zero p rate for low earners.

  • It's the BINGO! budget. Anyone worried about money, food, job security etc should be thankful that a game of Bingo and a pint and marginally cheaper.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TGOHF said:


    I fail to see how having a 10p rate is better than a zero p rate for low earners.

    It's not, of course, but the real joy is imagining the Labour strategy meeting...

    "What was the biggest *^&$up of the entire last Parliament?"

    "10p Tax"

    "Why don't we revisit that...?"
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Let them eat bingo.

    Tories must despair at M. Green.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    IOS said:

    Shapps is just a disaster at running the Tories election machine. The fact that he let that go out speak volumes. There is not a single floating voter that is going to be won over by a bloody twitter pic. Not one.

    And yet instead of trying to sort out their campaigning infrastructure he is d!cking around creating stuff that no one reads. He then does it so badly that it plays into the narrative that the Tories haven't got a clue.

    If no one reads it then it can hardly play into the narrative, can it? Criticising Ed M's budget response was dismissed earlier on the basis no-one remembers that stuff even if they were one of the few who saw it, well even fewer will hear about Shapps being a fool on Twitter. Why is that more impactive than the potential of a narrative about Ed M have a crap response developing? (not that I think it will - it does not appear to have been great, but anyone not in the Tory camp will find it hard to think he made a catastrophic error)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @alstewitn: I hear the first draft of *that* bingo/beer splash referred to 'housey-housey' and 'ale'.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    I'm quite astounded by the Shapps stuff.

    Bet looking good Utd now 1.55
    You know what, I didn't get on. I have been so busy at work I've not been able to. Good luck with the bet - it was a great, great tip.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The venom with which the bots are attacking Mr Schapps this evening suggests he had had rather a successful day at the office
  • WelshBertieWelshBertie Posts: 124
    kle4 said:

    Not a very leaked budget for a change apparently. Something to be welcomed by all perhaps, though it puts pressure on both sides that they have to get it right on the day itself, without time to set up a detailed narrative.

    I think where it really helped was that it didn't give Miliband the chance to produce some spin on the changes introduced. Now faced with this he could have given his thoughts on what he thought of them how he saw these policies from an economic and intellectual point of view...but no, he must have had a running bet with his Spads about how many times he could mention Eton. He is going out of his way to be remembered as the worst Labour Leader of the Opposition in history.

  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Scott

    No it doesn't its a comical idiotic own goal. Nothing wrong with having a good laugh at it. And as for you calling someone else a bot! Irony is dead.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    It's the BINGO! budget. Anyone worried about money, food, job security etc should be thankful that a game of Bingo and a pint and marginally cheaper.

    That's good. I can see Bingo Budget catching on. The Bingo thing was gimmicky, affects very few people, and of course alliteration is always catchy. I don't think it is an accurate reflection on whether or not the budget as a whole was or was not good for those who are struggling, but then I also agree with the view that the Bedroom tax is a misleading name.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Scott_P said:

    The venom with which the bots are attacking Mr Schapps this evening suggests he had had rather a successful day at the office

    You reckon?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    This is the Tweety ad everyone is talking about:

    Just catching up with this... rather than row over policy, looks like Tory ad has caused row of its own.. pic.twitter.com/DZ7AwnDQEA

    — Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) March 19, 2014

    Another few thousand converts to UKIP. LOL
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited March 2014
    IOS said:

    Scott

    No it doesn't its a comical idiotic own goal. Nothing wrong with having a good laugh at it. And as for you calling someone else a bot! Irony is dead.

    But, again, people automatically criticising Ed M was a sign the budget was a failure, was a view espoused earlier. Nothing wrong with turning that logic around then, particular when there's a focus on an inconsequential piece of silliness rather than something significant (is how an attack on Schapps, beyond merely having a laugh at him but attempting to use it as some kind of signifier for Tory out of touchness and some wider point as some have done, would be framed).

    For the record I thought it made him look a tit, but it's amazing that attacks on Ed M are a diversion or irrelevant, or same old same old, but Tory posts something stupid on Twitter is not merely 'worth having a good laugh at' but something significant. Both cannot possibly be true I think.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    MikeK said:

    This is the Tweety ad everyone is talking about:

    Just catching up with this... rather than row over policy, looks like Tory ad has caused row of its own.. pic.twitter.com/DZ7AwnDQEA

    — Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) March 19, 2014

    Another few thousand converts to UKIP. LOL

    If I am to believe the most fervent of UKIP supporters, saying anything, or nothing, also leads to thousands of new converts to UKIP. Why would this particularly appeal to them? Seems like it would play to Labour more than UKIP.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    going down the colliseum tonight for some beer and bingo
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    kle4 said:

    MikeK said:

    This is the Tweety ad everyone is talking about:

    Just catching up with this... rather than row over policy, looks like Tory ad has caused row of its own.. pic.twitter.com/DZ7AwnDQEA

    — Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) March 19, 2014

    Another few thousand converts to UKIP. LOL
    If I am to believe the most fervent of UKIP supporters, saying anything, or nothing, also leads to thousands of new converts to UKIP. Why would this particularly appeal to them? Seems like it would play to Labour more than UKIP.

    "Seems like it would play to Labour more than UKIP"

    Yeah it will.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    taffys said:

    those who will benefit most are older and have some money to put aside.
    If you think about it, that isn't true at all. George Osborne has made pensions more flexible, yes, but he isn't putting more money into the pensions pot. He's just making the whole system more flexible.

    The people who are getting more money are the low paid and working couples who are planning children.

    Exactly. The point is by making the whole pensions/savings set up more flexible it sends a message to anyone aged 18-64 that it's worth saving as you'll have more control than before ( especiallly in the 55-65 age range). I am actually struggling to think of ANY budget measure from any budget in my lifetime that does me more good personally or sends such a sound economic message: saving is good and we'll try to make sure the system doesn't stuff you. What an utter breath of fresh air from the dire dire state of affairs under Gordon Brown.
  • kle4 said:

    It's the BINGO! budget. Anyone worried about money, food, job security etc should be thankful that a game of Bingo and a pint and marginally cheaper.

    That's good. I can see Bingo Budget catching on. The Bingo thing was gimmicky, affects very few people, and of course alliteration is always catchy. I don't think it is an accurate reflection on whether or not the budget as a whole was or was not good for those who are struggling, but then I also agree with the view that the Bedroom tax is a misleading name.
    Thanks. I've stuck #bingobudget on Twitter and on Facebook groups. But glad to see the mainstream media have picked up on how excretably bad Shapps Green's poster tweet is. Glad to see that Will from the Thick of It is still hard at work in Tory HQ.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    RodCrosby said:

    On UNS that makes

    Lab 27 (+14)
    Con 17 (-9)
    UKIP 17 (+4)
    LibDem 5 (-6)
    SNP 2 (nc)
    Green 1 (-1)
    Plaid 1 (nc)

    Btw, does anyone seriously think Labour are going to double their 2009 vote?

    No. I'd expect something like:-

    Lab and UKIP on 27% each.

    Con on 20%

    LD on 10%

    Greens on 8%

    Others on 8%
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Kle

    It is funny and - like most things in politics - won't change much of much. But it does show you just how dysfunctional CCHQ is under Shapps. Cameron has wanted rid for a while this will only make him think more so.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited March 2014
    It would appear that the usual suspects are unable to land many hard hitting blows on Osborne and the Coalition budget, and are instead focussing their attentions on a Shapps tweet. Very funny
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    edited March 2014
    kle4 said:

    It's the BINGO! budget. Anyone worried about money, food, job security etc should be thankful that a game of Bingo and a pint and marginally cheaper.

    That's good. I can see Bingo Budget catching on. The Bingo thing was gimmicky, affects very few people, and of course alliteration is always catchy. I don't think it is an accurate reflection on whether or not the budget as a whole was or was not good for those who are struggling, but then I also agree with the view that the Bedroom tax is a misleading name.
    "affects very few people"

    is it that few? dunno, depends if it includes interweb bingo i guess
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461

    kle4 said:

    It's the BINGO! budget. Anyone worried about money, food, job security etc should be thankful that a game of Bingo and a pint and marginally cheaper.

    That's good. I can see Bingo Budget catching on. The Bingo thing was gimmicky, affects very few people, and of course alliteration is always catchy. I don't think it is an accurate reflection on whether or not the budget as a whole was or was not good for those who are struggling, but then I also agree with the view that the Bedroom tax is a misleading name.
    Thanks. I've stuck #bingobudget on Twitter and on Facebook groups. But glad to see the mainstream media have picked up on how excretably bad Shapps Green's poster tweet is. Glad to see that Will from the Thick of It is still hard at work in Tory HQ.
    What's excretably (sp) bad about it? Go on, give us a lecture. ;-)
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    SeanT said:

    welshowl said:

    taffys said:

    those who will benefit most are older and have some money to put aside.
    If you think about it, that isn't true at all. George Osborne has made pensions more flexible, yes, but he isn't putting more money into the pensions pot. He's just making the whole system more flexible.

    The people who are getting more money are the low paid and working couples who are planning children.

    Exactly. The point is by making the whole pensions/savings set up more flexible it sends a message to anyone aged 18-64 that it's worth saving as you'll have more control than before ( especiallly in the 55-65 age range). I am actually struggling to think of ANY budget measure from any budget in my lifetime that does me more good personally or sends such a sound economic message: saving is good and we'll try to make sure the system doesn't stuff you. What an utter breath of fresh air from the dire dire state of affairs under Gordon Brown.
    My dear old Mum will like this Budget, and she is quintessential middle Britain - working class Cornish, tin miner dad, did A Levels and Further Ed. She voted Labour in the 60s then Tory with Thatcher then Blair again....

    She despises Miliband but really dislikes the posher Tories too, but thinks that decent David Cameron is probably doing his best, though he isn't particularly good.

    i imagine her vote, at present floating, has inched a bit nearer to Cameron tonight.
    Yeah I can buy into that. I think it'll nudge a few especially those in their 50's with defined contribution schemes where drawdown/annuity returns were pointless. This reform actually trusts people with their own money - shock horror.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited March 2014
    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    It's the BINGO! budget. Anyone worried about money, food, job security etc should be thankful that a game of Bingo and a pint and marginally cheaper.

    That's good. I can see Bingo Budget catching on. The Bingo thing was gimmicky, affects very few people, and of course alliteration is always catchy. I don't think it is an accurate reflection on whether or not the budget as a whole was or was not good for those who are struggling, but then I also agree with the view that the Bedroom tax is a misleading name.
    Thanks. I've stuck #bingobudget on Twitter and on Facebook groups. But glad to see the mainstream media have picked up on how excretably bad Shapps Green's poster tweet is. Glad to see that Will from the Thick of It is still hard at work in Tory HQ.

    Bingo Budget will only be a negative for politically obsessed weird freakshow trainspotting lefties like you, who probably sneer at Bingo because you are so viciously insecure about your own social background.

    99.9% of the people won't notice a f*cking Twitter poster, and those working class people that do will think, Oh yeah, the Tories made my Bingo cheaper.
    Ah, but you see, a Twitter poster is significant, whereas hundreds of 'Ed M did poorly' or 'George Osborne did pretty well' articles, mostly but not all from the usual suspects, mean nothing. For some reason.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    SeanT said:

    BBC journo tweets:

    Ross Hawkins ‏@rosschawkins 14m
    On Ed Miliband's budget response one Labour MP says it was "just about adequate". Another says "don't even ask me".

    Does anybody seriously think Ed Miliband is PM material? Well done Labour you've found someone worse than Brown.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    If it doesn't include interweb bingo Lab could go

    "Not only did the evil Tories close down all the Bingo halls with their smoking ban** now to rub salt into the wounds they dropped the tax on live bingo but not on the interweb bingo everyone changed to after so they could have a cig while playing - Tories boooooo!!!!"

    ** obv that bit relies on people forgetting the smoking ban was Lab

    (this is just messing about btw)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    BBC journo tweets:

    Ross Hawkins ‏@rosschawkins 14m
    On Ed Miliband's budget response one Labour MP says it was "just about adequate". Another says "don't even ask me".

    Does anybody seriously think Ed Miliband is PM material? Well done Labour you've found someone worse than Brown.
    I don't find him particularly inspiring. But I don't fear him as PM either, even if I don't think Labour are ready to be back in office so soon, without having learned anything.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Some interesting graphs here http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/03/budget-2014-the-six-scary-graphs/

    I particularly like the one showing the uselessness of economic forecasts in that with latest revisions upwards, the OBR prediction for this year is about back to where it was in 2010.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    glw said:


    Does anybody seriously think Ed Miliband is PM material? Well done Labour you've found someone worse than Brown.

    I've always said Ed is Labour's Hague...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    unioncity said:

    #torybingo trending on twitter.

    Hate the poor, 44
    Me me me, 33
    Bankers den, Number 10.

    Petty nonsense, but I if people have fun with it then godspeed I guess.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    You know in the 1980's - when the Tories actually won majorities - CCHQ was an amazing and effective machine.

    Now look at it under Shapps.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    IOS said:

    You know in the 1980's - when the Tories actually won majorities - CCHQ was an amazing and effective machine.

    Now look at it under Shapps.

    Party political spinning is all laughable thesedays, it's just a matter of degree. Labour's turn will come.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    kle4 said:

    Not a very leaked budget for a change apparently. Something to be welcomed by all perhaps, though it puts pressure on both sides that they have to get it right on the day itself, without time to set up a detailed narrative.

    Good point. And it's interestingly counter-intuitive that No 11 were spinning that there some amazing things for everyone coming, triggerring all kinds of wild speculation, and then delivering some amendments to the decisions you can make when you're 65 (I was interested - I'm 64). But maybe they reckon that some of the wild anticipation will linger as people remember how nice the sizzle was, even if there wasn't a steak at the end.

  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited March 2014
    Edit - can't be arsed to even comment on tut bingo.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461
    MH370:

    For a few days now I've been thinking that the authorities aqpear to be getting nowhere in analysing the data they've received. In which case, perhaps it's time to let the wisdom of the crowds onto it. Release the raw (or as raw as possible) radar and satellite data to the public, and let us analyse it.

    This won't happen, especially for the military radar data. But there might be ghosts in the data that can only be obtained when the data is combined with other sources.

    They appear to be doing a terrible job of it at the moment.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    unioncity said:

    #torybingo trending on twitter.

    Hate the poor, 44
    Me me me, 33
    Bankers den, Number 10.

    unioncity said:

    Food bank for you, 22

    The Feckless whine, Number 9

    Two fat scroungers, 88
  • The people who don't get why the poster is patronising aren't the people being patronised. Personally I like Bingo - my Nan used to go several times a week. But the tone suggests that scum should be happy because the Tories have cut the price of a game of bingo. Sure you don't have two ha'p'eths to rub together but look - a shiny penny off your pint of mild.

    Didn't one of the more enlightened Tories ask why they had such a problem up north.....?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited March 2014

    kle4 said:

    Not a very leaked budget for a change apparently. Something to be welcomed by all perhaps, though it puts pressure on both sides that they have to get it right on the day itself, without time to set up a detailed narrative.

    Good point. And it's interestingly counter-intuitive that No 11 were spinning that there some amazing things for everyone coming, triggerring all kinds of wild speculation, and then delivering some amendments to the decisions you can make when you're 65 (I was interested - I'm 64). But maybe they reckon that some of the wild anticipation will linger as people remember how nice the sizzle was, even if there wasn't a steak at the end.

    For people on a starvation diet even a hint of steak feels as good as steak. People trying to save have had nothing but bad news, even being told repeatedly there was no point, so little moves that can be portrayed as large could help shape that all important aspect, perception.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    IOS said:

    You know in the 1980's - when the Tories actually won majorities - CCHQ was an amazing and effective machine.

    Now look at it under Shapps.


    I agree with you on that and this from a man who knew how to win elections -


    Norman Tebbit Attacks 'Bedroom Tax', Tory Peer Says It Will Cost Conservatives At Election.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/19/norman-tebbit-bedroom-tax-conservative-party_n_4994203.html

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    unioncity said:

    #torybingo trending on twitter.

    Hate the poor, 44
    Me me me, 33
    Bankers den, Number 10.

    Why are you quoting New Labour Bingo calls?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    A few musings.

    The pension changes vastly increase the alternatives to annuities, and significantly reduce the market for annuities. Who is hurt by this? Well mostly it is the City, though they will at least have increased opportunities in other areas (Legal and General dropped 8% today but Hargreaves Lansdown went up 15%).

    But annuites have been funded largely by the purchase of gilts. So fewer annuities means fewer purchasers of govrrnment gilts. Fewer purchases means that it will be harder for future governments to fund borrowing by selling government debt, or at least putting up the price.

    So one effect of Danny and Georges policy is to make it harder and more expensive for a future government to go on a borrowing binge. This is a financial chastity belt being fixed to the organs of the two Eds. Clever, clever George and Danny!
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    If the Lib Dems get 10% that would be pretty good. They never do very well in the Euros so if they're around what they'd get in a GE poll that's impressive (I'm not convinced). I think they'll be down around 8%. The Greens got 7% last time and 2 MEPs. Should be a nervous night for Clegg.

    SeanT - Out of curiousity why does your dear mum despise Ed Miliband? I know he's not that popular with people, my brother sees him as a bit of an irrelevance and I know plenty of others who have their doubts. But I've not come across anyone who despises him (except for the mob who despise all politicians except those down to earth characters in Ukip). He's just seen as not very good.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Nominal UKIP targets for the Euro election, for swings of up to 5%:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At91c3wX1Wu5dGZycGkwUDI2dG9jdVlaek9nTUpnYnc#gid=0
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,709
    The bingo stuff was an inexpensive but potent master-stoke by Osborne. It is also a further boost to a project of self-redefinition that is progressing with surprisingly few hiccups: the transformation from sneering privileged Bullingdon boy to enlightened Tory Robin Hood. If Osborne keeps this up he could become the Tories' Ronald Reagan.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    SeanT said:

    trainspotting lefties

    Any evidence that trainspotters are lefties?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    The people who don't get why the poster is patronising aren't the people being patronised. Personally I like Bingo - my Nan used to go several times a week. But the tone suggests that scum should be happy because the Tories have cut the price of a game of bingo. Sure you don't have two ha'p'eths to rub together but look - a shiny penny off your pint of mild.

    Didn't one of the more enlightened Tories ask why they had such a problem up north.....?

    Wasn't there an article on here a few months back witha poll showing that plenty of people up north support policies Cameron and the Tories espouse, until they find out they are Tory policies? That might suggest they do understand the issues and people well enough to appeal to significant numbers in such areas, they're just crap at adjusting their image. It's the same principle in that both Ed M and Cameron are out of touch with ordinary people due to their backgrounds, for totally different reasons, but only one has an obligation to prove that that does not matter because they still are able to understand the needs of ordinary people. Even if Labour genuinely are more in touch, they get a pass on proving it far too often, and the need to prove it leads to the Tories trying desperate measures which backfire.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Tyke

    Oh my God If there was a young tebbit around would we be in trouble.

    Shapps however is a fool.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    RodCrosby said:

    glw said:


    Does anybody seriously think Ed Miliband is PM material? Well done Labour you've found someone worse than Brown.

    I've always said Ed is Labour's Hague...
    Hague did look a bit of a wally as leader, although I think he's proved pretty capable in government, but Miliband looks he's doing the leadership job as work experience and that once his week is up it's back to the sixth form.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    RodCrosby said:

    glw said:


    Does anybody seriously think Ed Miliband is PM material? Well done Labour you've found someone worse than Brown.

    I've always said Ed is Labour's Hague...
    Except Ed probably won't be Foreign Secretary in 10 years time.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Good evening, everyone.

    Don't forget that my rather delayed post-race analysis of Australia is up here: http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/australia-post-race-analysis.html
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    glw said:


    Does anybody seriously think Ed Miliband is PM material? Well done Labour you've found someone worse than Brown.

    I've always said Ed is Labour's Hague...
    Except Ed probably won't be Foreign Secretary in 10 years time.
    Probably as people rarely go backwards from PM to Foreign Secretary I suspect.

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    The people who don't get why the poster is patronising aren't the people being patronised. Personally I like Bingo - my Nan used to go several times a week. But the tone suggests that scum should be happy because the Tories have cut the price of a game of bingo. Sure you don't have two ha'p'eths to rub together but look - a shiny penny off your pint of mild.

    Didn't one of the more enlightened Tories ask why they had such a problem up north.....?

    Didn't realise that playing bingo and being working class were 'Northern'. Or are you just stereotyping?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    BBC journo tweets:

    Ross Hawkins ‏@rosschawkins 14m
    On Ed Miliband's budget response one Labour MP says it was "just about adequate". Another says "don't even ask me".

    Does anybody seriously think Ed Miliband is PM material? Well done Labour you've found someone worse than Brown.
    I don't find him particularly inspiring. But I don't fear him as PM either, even if I don't think Labour are ready to be back in office so soon, without having learned anything.

    Hmm not so sure. I'm not an instinctive knee jerk anti Labourite - I'm on record on here saying Carwyn Jones here in Wales is pretty decent and better than the Tory leadership here - but the more I see if Ed the more I fear.

    He seems, to me at least, to have no inkling that markets can and DO help Mr and Mrs Average and below average nor that " profit" isn't a dirty word implying someone has "lost". Not all markets are perfect of course but most are pretty bloody good at allocating economic activity for the benefit of the most number of ( ordinary ) people.

    Ed seems to rather oddly wade in blindly to things like "excess land held by building firms", or " freeze on energy for two years" to an over reliance on "bashing bankers" as a panacea for too many ills, without any apparent grasp of the adverse knock on effects. He worries me frankly. Well intentioned but unaware of the real commercial world that about 4 in 5 of us live and work in.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    It does look to me the sneering at bingo is coming from Labour. Hampstead may look down its collective nose at Bingo, beer and the Sun, but to many these are simple pleasures.

    In part this cut to a more social form of gambling came from increased taxes on FOBT. Didn't Ed want something done about these as recently as last week?


    Ed looked flatfooted by George, but as ever it takes a few days for the budget revisions to be picked over.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    unioncity said:

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    glw said:


    Does anybody seriously think Ed Miliband is PM material? Well done Labour you've found someone worse than Brown.

    I've always said Ed is Labour's Hague...
    Except Ed probably won't be Foreign Secretary in 10 years time.
    Yep, far more likely to be Prime Minister. Though 2020 will be a tricky election, given the mess Labour will inherit.
    Worse than that inherited in 2010? I've been very disappointed in this government, but that doesn't seem credible.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    IOS said:

    You know in the 1980's - when the Tories actually won majorities - CCHQ was an amazing and effective machine.

    Now look at it under Shapps.


    I agree with you on that and this from a man who knew how to win elections -


    Norman Tebbit Attacks 'Bedroom Tax', Tory Peer Says It Will Cost Conservatives At Election.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/19/norman-tebbit-bedroom-tax-conservative-party_n_4994203.html

    BLUE ON BLUE INCOMING is spreading through the party like wildfire, even the old guard want a piece of the action.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited March 2014
    Brian Strutton GMB ‏@BrianStrutton 4m

    The amazing thing is, someone very senior in the Tory hierarchy must have approved that Grant Shapps poster. Maybe even the party chairman.
    Nail.Head.

    As amusingly incompetent as Shapps obviously is it's just not credible to shove all the blame onto him for this wonderful CCHQ PR 'master strategy'. It wasn't Shapps who came up with "We're all in this together", nor is the blame primarily on Shapps for this hilarity.

    This has out of touch twit written all over it. Hence the shrieking on here from the usual out of touch twerps, as they still don't understand that Osbrowne's inability to stop himself from posturing and 'master strategising' at every opportunity means this kind of thing is inevitable.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited March 2014

    IOS said:

    You know in the 1980's - when the Tories actually won majorities - CCHQ was an amazing and effective machine.

    Now look at it under Shapps.


    I agree with you on that and this from a man who knew how to win elections -


    Norman Tebbit Attacks 'Bedroom Tax', Tory Peer Says It Will Cost Conservatives At Election.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/19/norman-tebbit-bedroom-tax-conservative-party_n_4994203.html

    BLUE ON BLUE INCOMING is spreading through the party like wildfire, even the old guard want a piece of the action.
    Tebbit's hated Cameron for ages. Half his columns on the Telegraph seem to be that Cameron needs to stop being Cameron and start being Conservative.
This discussion has been closed.