Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Why don’t old people like dinosaurs? – politicalbetting.com

124

Comments

  • TimS said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing the Japanese are not hated even more than they are already hated across Asia

    If I was Filipino I would find it very hard to forgive them. Likewise if I was Chinese

    And they were damn lucky they got away with just two nukes

    Tulsi Gabbard might be right to caution against Japanese rearmament.
    No, Tulsi Gabbard is a batshit crazy Putinist.

    Japan, like Germany, has moved on from its past.

    Russia has not.
    "Tulsi Gabbard is a batshit crazy Putinist."

    Why are you trying to whitewash her? She is far worse than that.
    She also has one of those surely fictional names the Americans excel at.
    She's hot so all is forgiven right?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,005

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    FUCKETTY FUCK FUCK

    Has anyone else read the history of Manila as the Japanese were pushed out by the Americans in 1945?

    I confess I has no idea. It’s as bad - perhaps worse in its wanton pointless intensity - as the Rape of Nanking

    For a start the Japanese made sure to destroy “the most beautiful city in the orient” - Manila was a Spanish colonial pearl

    Worse; the Japanese decided to exterminate - there is no other word - pretty much the entire civilian population. Every living non Japanese person. Men women children babies. Herded into buildings that were then exploded or burned. Thousands of rapes - the girls then killed. Mass beheadings


    Perhaps 100,000 died in a matter of days

    Great book on this subject. But a tough tough read

    https://www.amazon.com/Rampage-MacArthur-Yamashita-Battle-Manila/dp/0393357562?dplnkId=1a989ca7-7353-4b59-8880-eb9fd3ae7e00&nodl=1

    I "enjoyed" Dan Carlins shows about the war in SE.Asia.

    https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-62-supernova-in-the-east-i/

    Quite a lot of the first-hand reports he reads are... not easy going.
    I’ll check it out

    Honestly the Extermination of Manila is right up there with the greatest atrocities of all World War 2. It’s…. Stupefying

    And I had no idea at all. It only emerged (for me) I was asking a… machine.., for interesting books to read about the Philippines

    Wow. I’m genuinely stunned. I regard myself as a pretty good student of history - and this one is entirely new to me
    Max Hastings covers it quite well in "Nemesis", his history of the last couple of years of the Pacific war. Lots of grim stuff all round.
    Combine it with "Armageddon" (the fall of Germany 1944-45) and it's quite depressing. Not nice at all.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,552

    Leon said:

    Kemi Badenoch says Keir Starmer is 'cowardly'

    "I don’t think he can mansplain anything to me... He is also quite cowardly, because he relies on his back benches to attack me when I can’t respond, because I can only speak when I am questioning him."

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1857527253518659774

    She shouldn’t be whining. This worries me

    Starmer is a feeble communicator with no charm and a narrow mind. And he is defending an already dire government. She should be able to beat the crap out of him

    Shape up, Kemi
    If she's whining about backbenchers attacking her just what the heck was she expecting?

    Not a good look as you say, a leader needs a thick skin.
    Kemi has that unfortnate combination of belligerent manner and thin skin.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,273
    edited November 15
    The EU now saying that China is supplying Russia with weapons. I take this as evidence of the weakness of the West, that China is no longer deterred from involving itself to this extent. Democracy will not survive unless we are prepared to fight to defend it, and the West is currently poised to let democratic Ukraine slide to avoidable defeat.

    This will be a major strategic defeat that was completely needless and the consequences will be felt for the rest of the century. I feel as scared now as I did at the very beginning of the invasion in February 2022.
  • Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Kemi Badenoch says Keir Starmer is 'cowardly'

    "I don’t think he can mansplain anything to me... He is also quite cowardly, because he relies on his back benches to attack me when I can’t respond, because I can only speak when I am questioning him."

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1857527253518659774

    She shouldn’t be whining. This worries me

    Starmer is a feeble communicator with no charm and a narrow mind. And he is defending an already dire government. She should be able to beat the crap out of him

    Shape up, Kemi
    If she's whining about backbenchers attacking her just what the heck was she expecting?

    Not a good look as you say, a leader needs a thick skin.
    Kemi has that unfortnate combination of belligerent manner and thin skin.
    Some people can give it but not take it.
  • Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Kemi Badenoch says Keir Starmer is 'cowardly'

    "I don’t think he can mansplain anything to me... He is also quite cowardly, because he relies on his back benches to attack me when I can’t respond, because I can only speak when I am questioning him."

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1857527253518659774

    She shouldn’t be whining. This worries me

    Starmer is a feeble communicator with no charm and a narrow mind. And he is defending an already dire government. She should be able to beat the crap out of him

    Shape up, Kemi
    If she's whining about backbenchers attacking her just what the heck was she expecting?

    Not a good look as you say, a leader needs a thick skin.
    Kemi has that unfortnate combination of belligerent manner and thin skin.
    Some people can give it but not take it.
    But enough about my ex.
  • TimS said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing the Japanese are not hated even more than they are already hated across Asia

    If I was Filipino I would find it very hard to forgive them. Likewise if I was Chinese

    And they were damn lucky they got away with just two nukes

    Tulsi Gabbard might be right to caution against Japanese rearmament.
    No, Tulsi Gabbard is a batshit crazy Putinist.

    Japan, like Germany, has moved on from its past.

    Russia has not.
    "Tulsi Gabbard is a batshit crazy Putinist."

    Why are you trying to whitewash her? She is far worse than that.
    She also has one of those surely fictional names the Americans excel at.
    She's hot so all is forgiven right?

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Kemi Badenoch says Keir Starmer is 'cowardly'

    "I don’t think he can mansplain anything to me... He is also quite cowardly, because he relies on his back benches to attack me when I can’t respond, because I can only speak when I am questioning him."

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1857527253518659774

    She shouldn’t be whining. This worries me

    Starmer is a feeble communicator with no charm and a narrow mind. And he is defending an already dire government. She should be able to beat the crap out of him

    Shape up, Kemi
    If she's whining about backbenchers attacking her just what the heck was she expecting?

    Not a good look as you say, a leader needs a thick skin.
    Kemi has that unfortnate combination of belligerent manner and thin skin.
    Some people can give it but not take it.
    But enough about my ex.
    Leon, what are you doing logged on Horse's account?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    viewcode said:

    maxh said:

    Cookie said:

    maxh said:

    Off topic, but relevant given discussion on immigration earlier today. I can understand a fear of net migration figures in the hundreds of thousands, but what I find worthy of contempt is when this discussion is divorced from any real understanding of why people are migrating. Today's 'The Take's from Al Jazeera discusses the experiences of women in Sudan: https://pca.st/episode/7874d751-b1e2-4a45-888b-7d8f3f60f9fb.

    To summarise, with apologies for the language: women are being raped at such scale by the RSF that suicide statistics are on the rise as women choose to take their own lives rather than fall into the hands of RSF
    fighters. Is it any surprise that people want to migrate away from this?

    Of course a reasonable response is that sexual violence is such an incredibly common historical fact that it is the modern western world that is unusual for its relative safety for women. That may be true, but I find it grossly unjustifiable to argue that this relative safety should be open only to those who happen to be born in the right part of the world.

    This isn't really an argument for migration - I think it is a really poor solution for everyone concerned - but those who simultaneously argue against migration and against development support for places like Sudan are criminals, in my view.

    Regrettably, however, the experience of Sweden suggests that as well as importing those sheltering from rape they have also been importing a not inconsiderable number of rapists.
    As I said I'm not making a pro-immigration argument. I'm making the argument that we will never reduce the pull of international migration whilst there are parts of the world in the situation Sudan is currently in. Trying to stop migration in
    this context will destroy the ethical basis of
    our nation states as we take more and more
    extreme measures to try to stop people arriving here, having escaped from there.
    I disagree

    Nation states are an artificial construct to support the residents of a given patch of land. While the residents might wish to expand the population for economic or ethical reasons they do not have an obligation to do so.

    Your model implies an ethical obligation to pursue equality of outcomes on a global basis, which I suspect few would sign up to

    A long while back I was at a city diner. At a table with the great and good.

    Brexit was surfacing as a discussion - it was the period when we had something like no government…. I diverted the conversation. I bought up the subject of one of Cameron’s spads who had argued the above - he didn’t see why the inhabitants of the U.K. should come first over people in worse situations around the world.

    Most of the great and good at the table endorsed this view. An exception was an HAC officer, who like me, was half in the can and had a sense of humour.

    He suggested that this variable allegiance thing sounded great. And due to an exercise that weekend, he would shortly be in charge the one of the largest body of armed men and women in London. So what should he do?

    The jokes between him and myself accelerated with the horror on the faces around us. We stopped when we realised that some were taking us seriously*.

    They seriously thought that the allegiance of those below was an iron law. And that of the rulers to the ruled wasn’t.
    I bet you ruined a few evenings! Naughty!
    You'd have thought the bit where we were discussing using the Operation Angel - the plan to mobilise the TA in an emergency, run by a one armed colonel in Defence Ministry - would have blown the joke. Obviously, not enough Tom Cruise fans at the table.
    Be fair it took me a minute. Although "Long live sacred England" does have quite the ring to it... 😃

    One thing I did love about that movie. The Guardian review said that the portrayal of the German generals made them out to be a bunch of neurotics obsessed with status & infighting, like a bunch of soon to be fired actors.

    Which is exactly how they came across in the history books. I mean, FFS, they sent a bloke with about 3 fingers to carry the f**king bomb. Couldn't they have found a large fit bloke, who could have totted 50Kg of fun into the bunker? They only had 10 million candidates for the job....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,319

    https://x.com/thenewsagents/status/1857445960684798296

    "Calling Trump an authoritarian fascist is all hyperbole."

    Lord Peter Mandelson dismisses claims that Trump fuels 'fear and division,' noting that most Americans care more about living costs.

    Terrible conflation of arguments there.

    It is entirely possible to argue - as I have done previusly - that most Trump supporters are voting for him out of a combination of economic malaise and desperation. This is more acute in the US than the UK due to the lack of any form of safety net.

    But it is also entirely possible to argue - as again I have done - that Trump himself is a self serving authoritarian fuckwit (I won't use the overblown fascist claim) who actually cares not one jot for the electorate and is simply clever enough to use their economic difficulties as a means of gaining power.

    A clever authoritarian uses the desperation of the electorate to get himself power. This is exactly what Trump has doen.
    Wasn't that the tactic used to gain power by that chap in Germany with the Charlie Chaplin moustache? Uncanny.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,028

    The EU now saying that China is supplying Russia with weapons. I take this as evidence of the weakness of the West, that China is no longer deterred from involving itself to this extent. Democracy will not survive unless we are prepared to fight to defend it, and the West is currently poised to let democratic Ukraine slide to avoidable defeat.

    This will be a major strategic defeat that was completely needless and the consequences will be felt for the rest of the century. I feel as scared now as I did at the very beginning of the invasion in February 2022.

    This has been obvious for years. Of course China is supplying Russia. What did you expect?

    And how do we “deter” China, which is the economic equal of the USA, a nuclear power, and in some ways MORE powerful than the USA (eg it is a much bigger trader so it has more economic leverage globally)?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048

    https://x.com/thenewsagents/status/1857445960684798296

    "Calling Trump an authoritarian fascist is all hyperbole."

    Lord Peter Mandelson dismisses claims that Trump fuels 'fear and division,' noting that most Americans care more about living costs.

    Terrible conflation of arguments there.

    It is entirely possible to argue - as I have done previusly - that most Trump supporters are voting for him out of a combination of economic malaise and desperation. This is more acute in the US than the UK due to the lack of any form of safety net.

    But it is also entirely possible to argue - as again I have done - that Trump himself is a self serving authoritarian fuckwit (I won't use the overblown fascist claim) who actually cares not one jot for the electorate and is simply clever enough to use their economic difficulties as a means of gaining power.

    A clever authoritarian uses the desperation of the electorate to get himself power. This is exactly what Trump has doen.
    Wasn't that the tactic used to gain power by that chap in Germany with the Charlie Chaplin moustache? Uncanny.
    Wasn't that the bloke who killed Hitler? Can't have been all bad....
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,316

    ydoethur said:

    We are all, pace @kjh , overlooking the important question:

    Were they animals or do they count as birds?

    Birds are in fact dinosaurs.
    Maybe the ones you’re dating at your age. 😘
    Reptiles as a group includes the birds, because the latter are descended from dinosaurs (which were reptiles). The closest living relatives of the birds are in fact the crocodiles.
    I was only joking.

    You are still my favourite PBer. ❤️

    After Robert, OGH and TSE, obviously. 🙂

    And Viewcode, Ydoethur. Nigel, Malmesbury, Nicky, Barty, Lucky, Malc.
    Decrepit, Stodge, Stu, BigG, Oldy, Ben, Kin, Rotten, Jos. Leon.
    Cyclefree. Yokes. Mr Bristols. The Balrog. And Horse.

    So. See? You’re high on the speed dial.
    Checks list. Sad shake of head…
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    FUCKETTY FUCK FUCK

    Has anyone else read the history of Manila as the Japanese were pushed out by the Americans in 1945?

    I confess I has no idea. It’s as bad - perhaps worse in its wanton pointless intensity - as the Rape of Nanking

    For a start the Japanese made sure to destroy “the most beautiful city in the orient” - Manila was a Spanish colonial pearl

    Worse; the Japanese decided to exterminate - there is no other word - pretty much the entire civilian population. Every living non Japanese person. Men women children babies. Herded into buildings that were then exploded or burned. Thousands of rapes - the girls then killed. Mass beheadings


    Perhaps 100,000 died in a matter of days

    Great book on this subject. But a tough tough read

    https://www.amazon.com/Rampage-MacArthur-Yamashita-Battle-Manila/dp/0393357562?dplnkId=1a989ca7-7353-4b59-8880-eb9fd3ae7e00&nodl=1

    I "enjoyed" Dan Carlins shows about the war in SE.Asia.

    https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-62-supernova-in-the-east-i/

    Quite a lot of the first-hand reports he reads are... not easy going.
    I’ll check it out

    Honestly the Extermination of Manila is right up there with the greatest atrocities of all World War 2. It’s…. Stupefying

    And I had no idea at all. It only emerged (for me) I was asking a… machine.., for interesting books to read about the Philippines

    Wow. I’m genuinely stunned. I regard myself as a pretty good student of history - and this one is entirely new to me
    Max Hastings covers it quite well in "Nemesis", his history of the last couple of years of the Pacific war. Lots of grim stuff all round.
    Combine it with "Armageddon" (the fall of Germany 1944-45) and it's quite depressing. Not nice at all.
    The British lost around 450,000 soldiers and civilians in WW2, lighter by around half of their WW1 casualties (which were overwhelmingly military). Cities were bombed, but on nothing like the scale inflicted on Germany and Japan. As a result out experience of the war was very different to that of other nations. We were never invaded or occupied.
    We have a definite blind spot for just how bad the conflict was, and especially so for the Asian/Pacific theatre.

    The Japanese were every bit as evil, vile and morally bankrupt as the Germans, yet seemingly get nothing like the bad rap. And yet we should know- the fate of Western prisoners of war in Burma and other places is well known. And they got off lightly compared to other Asians under the Japanese.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,028
    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    Cookie said:

    maxh said:

    Off topic, but relevant given discussion on immigration earlier today. I can understand a fear of net migration figures in the hundreds of thousands, but what I find worthy of contempt is when this discussion is divorced from any real understanding of why people are migrating. Today's 'The Take's from Al Jazeera discusses the experiences of women in Sudan: https://pca.st/episode/7874d751-b1e2-4a45-888b-7d8f3f60f9fb.

    To summarise, with apologies for the language: women are being raped at such scale by the RSF that suicide statistics are on the rise as women choose to take their own lives rather than fall into the hands of RSF
    fighters. Is it any surprise that people want to migrate away from this?

    Of course a reasonable response is that sexual violence is such an incredibly common historical fact that it is the modern western world that is unusual for its relative safety for women. That may be true, but I find it grossly unjustifiable to argue that this relative safety should be open only to those who happen to be born in the right part of the world.

    This isn't really an argument for migration - I think it is a really poor solution for everyone concerned - but those who simultaneously argue against migration and against development support for places like Sudan are criminals, in my view.

    Regrettably, however, the experience of Sweden suggests that as well as importing those sheltering from rape they have also been importing a not inconsiderable number of rapists.
    As I said I'm not making a pro-immigration argument. I'm making the argument that we will never reduce the pull of international migration whilst there are parts of the world in the situation Sudan is currently in. Trying to stop migration in
    this context will destroy the ethical basis of our nation states as we take more and more extreme measures to try to stop people arriving here, having escaped from there.
    Afghan woman are even more deserving of our help than those in Sudan. What is being done to them is truly evil.
    Of course you’re right

    But how exactly do we change the situation in Afghanistan or Sudan? We can’t. We tried and we can’t

    All we can do is stop these hideous misogynistic ideas being imported into the west which means an end to migration from conservative Islam starting tomorrow

    But of course that is “racist” or “Islamophobic” so we continue to slowly absorb these monstrous attitudes
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,948
    Wonderful clue in the Times Quick Crossword today...

    Embarrassing Conservative — awful Tory whinger (12)
  • Leon said:

    Kemi Badenoch says Keir Starmer is 'cowardly'

    "I don’t think he can mansplain anything to me... He is also quite cowardly, because he relies on his back benches to attack me when I can’t respond, because I can only speak when I am questioning him."

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1857527253518659774

    She shouldn’t be whining. This worries me

    Starmer is a feeble communicator with no charm and a narrow mind. And he is defending an already dire government. She should be able to beat the crap out of him

    Shape up, Kemi
    Opposition is a very different game to government. You don't have actions to defend, but everything else about it is much harder.

    Not many ex-ministers really learn to play the new rules well. None of the Labour 2010 crew did, really. Hague did a bit, but not enough for it to do him any good. Maggie did... in the end. And she had been around the block already in Parliamentary terms. Kemi B has known nothing but government.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,005

    viewcode said:

    maxh said:

    Cookie said:

    maxh said:

    Off topic, but relevant given discussion on immigration earlier today. I can understand a fear of net migration figures in the hundreds of thousands, but what I find worthy of contempt is when this discussion is divorced from any real understanding of why people are migrating. Today's 'The Take's from Al Jazeera discusses the experiences of women in Sudan: https://pca.st/episode/7874d751-b1e2-4a45-888b-7d8f3f60f9fb.

    To summarise, with apologies for the language: women are being raped at such scale by the RSF that suicide statistics are on the rise as women choose to take their own lives rather than fall into the hands of RSF
    fighters. Is it any surprise that people want to migrate away from this?

    Of course a reasonable response is that sexual violence is such an incredibly common historical fact that it is the modern western world that is unusual for its relative safety for women. That may be true, but I find it grossly unjustifiable to argue that this relative safety should be open only to those who happen to be born in the right part of the world.

    This isn't really an argument for migration - I think it is a really poor solution for everyone concerned - but those who simultaneously argue against migration and against development support for places like Sudan are criminals, in my view.

    Regrettably, however, the experience of Sweden suggests that as well as importing those sheltering from rape they have also been importing a not inconsiderable number of rapists.
    As I said I'm not making a pro-immigration argument. I'm making the argument that we will never reduce the pull of international migration whilst there are parts of the world in the situation Sudan is currently in. Trying to stop migration in
    this context will destroy the ethical basis of
    our nation states as we take more and more
    extreme measures to try to stop people arriving here, having escaped from there.
    I disagree

    Nation states are an artificial construct to support the residents of a given patch of land. While the residents might wish to expand the population for economic or ethical reasons they do not have an obligation to do so.

    Your model implies an ethical obligation to pursue equality of outcomes on a global basis, which I suspect few would sign up to

    A long while back I was at a city diner. At a table with the great and good.

    Brexit was surfacing as a discussion - it was the period when we had something like no government…. I diverted the conversation. I bought up the subject of one of Cameron’s spads who had argued the above - he didn’t see why the inhabitants of the U.K. should come first over people in worse situations around the world.

    Most of the great and good at the table endorsed this view. An exception was an HAC officer, who like me, was half in the can and had a sense of humour.

    He suggested that this variable allegiance thing sounded great. And due to an exercise that weekend, he would shortly be in charge the one of the largest body of armed men and women in London. So what should he do?

    The jokes between him and myself accelerated with the horror on the faces around us. We stopped when we realised that some were taking us seriously*.

    They seriously thought that the allegiance of those below was an iron law. And that of the rulers to the ruled wasn’t.
    I bet you ruined a few evenings! Naughty!
    You'd have thought the bit where we were discussing using the Operation Angel - the plan to mobilise the TA in an emergency, run by a one armed colonel in Defence Ministry - would have blown the joke. Obviously, not enough Tom Cruise fans at the table.
    Be fair it took me a minute. Although "Long live sacred England" does have quite the ring to it... 😃

    One thing I did love about that movie. The Guardian review said that the portrayal of the German generals made them out to be a bunch of neurotics obsessed with status & infighting, like a bunch of soon to be fired actors.

    Which is exactly how they came across in the history books. I mean, FFS, they sent a bloke with about 3 fingers to carry the f**king bomb. Couldn't they have found a large fit bloke, who could have totted 50Kg of fun into the bunker? They only had 10 million candidates for the job....
    There is something essentially distancing about a drama about the Nazi hierarchy populated by Anglo-American actors. They are good - some are very good - but they are not as convincing. Mind you though, if you use German actors it gets more horrific. So it's swings and roundabouts. ☹️
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,028
    edited November 15

    ydoethur said:

    We are all, pace @kjh , overlooking the important question:

    Were they animals or do they count as birds?

    Birds are in fact dinosaurs.
    Maybe the ones you’re dating at your age. 😘
    Reptiles as a group includes the birds, because the latter are descended from dinosaurs (which were reptiles). The closest living relatives of the birds are in fact the crocodiles.
    I was only joking.

    You are still my favourite PBer. ❤️

    After Robert, OGH and TSE, obviously. 🙂

    And Viewcode, Ydoethur. Nigel, Malmesbury, Nicky, Barty, Lucky, Malc.
    Decrepit, Stodge, Stu, BigG, Oldy, Ben, Kin, Rotten, Jos. Leon.
    Cyclefree. Yokes. Mr Bristols. The Balrog. And Horse.

    So. See? You’re high on the speed dial.
    Checks list. Sad shake of head…
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    FUCKETTY FUCK FUCK

    Has anyone else read the history of Manila as the Japanese were pushed out by the Americans in 1945?

    I confess I has no idea. It’s as bad - perhaps worse in its wanton pointless intensity - as the Rape of Nanking

    For a start the Japanese made sure to destroy “the most beautiful city in the orient” - Manila was a Spanish colonial pearl

    Worse; the Japanese decided to exterminate - there is no other word - pretty much the entire civilian population. Every living non Japanese person. Men women children babies. Herded into buildings that were then exploded or burned. Thousands of rapes - the girls then killed. Mass beheadings


    Perhaps 100,000 died in a matter of days

    Great book on this subject. But a tough tough read

    https://www.amazon.com/Rampage-MacArthur-Yamashita-Battle-Manila/dp/0393357562?dplnkId=1a989ca7-7353-4b59-8880-eb9fd3ae7e00&nodl=1

    I "enjoyed" Dan Carlins shows about the war in SE.Asia.

    https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-62-supernova-in-the-east-i/

    Quite a lot of the first-hand reports he reads are... not easy going.
    I’ll check it out

    Honestly the Extermination of Manila is right up there with the greatest atrocities of all World War 2. It’s…. Stupefying

    And I had no idea at all. It only emerged (for me) I was asking a… machine.., for interesting books to read about the Philippines

    Wow. I’m genuinely stunned. I regard myself as a pretty good student of history - and this one is entirely new to me
    Max Hastings covers it quite well in "Nemesis", his history of the last couple of years of the Pacific war. Lots of grim stuff all round.
    Combine it with "Armageddon" (the fall of Germany 1944-45) and it's quite depressing. Not nice at all.
    The British lost around 450,000 soldiers and civilians in WW2, lighter by around half of their WW1 casualties (which were overwhelmingly military). Cities were bombed, but on nothing like the scale inflicted on Germany and Japan. As a result out experience of the war was very different to that of other nations. We were never invaded or occupied.
    We have a definite blind spot for just how bad the conflict was, and especially so for the Asian/Pacific theatre.

    The Japanese were every bit as evil, vile and morally bankrupt as the Germans, yet seemingly get nothing like the bad rap. And yet we should know- the fate of Western prisoners of war in Burma and other places is well known. And they got off lightly compared to other Asians under the Japanese.
    Having now read this book Rampage I tend to agree. Nanking was not a one off. Japan was seized of a grim racial supremacism which could easily have led to extermination camps

    Indeed Manila in 1945 WAS an extermination camp they just did it fast with swords bombs guns and fire rather than industrially with Zyklon B

    I hate thinking this as I’ve just spent 3 weeks in Japan and they are the nicest people. I’m trying to reconcile it by concluding they are nice now because there is a deep national shame about what happened in 1920-45
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,342

    I've actually gone for The Living Daylights.

    Love the Cold War motif and Timothy Dalton's ultra Fleming portrayesque.

    First half is very good.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,028

    Leon said:

    Kemi Badenoch says Keir Starmer is 'cowardly'

    "I don’t think he can mansplain anything to me... He is also quite cowardly, because he relies on his back benches to attack me when I can’t respond, because I can only speak when I am questioning him."

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1857527253518659774

    She shouldn’t be whining. This worries me

    Starmer is a feeble communicator with no charm and a narrow mind. And he is defending an already dire government. She should be able to beat the crap out of him

    Shape up, Kemi
    Opposition is a very different game to government. You don't have actions to defend, but everything else about it is much harder.

    Not many ex-ministers really learn to play the new rules well. None of the Labour 2010 crew did, really. Hague did a bit, but not enough for it to do him any good. Maggie did... in the end. And she had been around the block already in Parliamentary terms. Kemi B has known nothing but government.
    It’s far too early to write her off

    But my fear was and is that she is a lightweight globalist with some mildly anti woke ideas which tickle Tory members. Plus she is pretty and black which seems like fun…. But isn’t enough by itself to put it mildly

    In there anything else to Kemi?

    Let’s hope she grows into the role

    Also, to be fair to Tories the choice was PITIFUL

    Personally I’d have gone for Priti Patel or Suella but I accept my tastes are quirky
  • https://x.com/thenewsagents/status/1857445960684798296

    "Calling Trump an authoritarian fascist is all hyperbole."

    Lord Peter Mandelson dismisses claims that Trump fuels 'fear and division,' noting that most Americans care more about living costs.

    Terrible conflation of arguments there.

    It is entirely possible to argue - as I have done previusly - that most Trump supporters are voting for him out of a combination of economic malaise and desperation. This is more acute in the US than the UK due to the lack of any form of safety net.

    But it is also entirely possible to argue - as again I have done - that Trump himself is a self serving authoritarian fuckwit (I won't use the overblown fascist claim) who actually cares not one jot for the electorate and is simply clever enough to use their economic difficulties as a means of gaining power.

    A clever authoritarian uses the desperation of the electorate to get himself power. This is exactly what Trump has doen.
    Wasn't that the tactic used to gain power by that chap in Germany with the Charlie Chaplin moustache? Uncanny.
    Wasn't that the bloke who killed Hitler? Can't have been all bad....
    Officer 1: "Mein Fuehrer, Tuchel...."

    Officer 2: "Tuchel didn't have enough decent players in his squad. England failed to win the World Cup yet again!"
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,342
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Does anyone have more detail on the care worker given a nine month prison sentence for calling asylum seekers tramps? Seems rather excessive on its own.

    A rather heretical view... but I predict this will end up being a 'windrush' or a 'post office' like disaster for the government, some low level civil servants will be blamed, they will end up being compensated.
    Won’t happen.

    The sentences aren’t made up out of thin air. They come out if the matrices in the sentencing guidelines. You can go look at them online.

    Judges remarks on sentencing are, in part, about their reasoning as to where on the sentencing matrix the convicted person ended up.

    There are some escape clauses, in some crimes for leniency or severity - but that requires further detailed justification. And hasn’t been used in the riot sentencing, that I am aware.

    Any deviation from the guidelines would be instant grounds for an appeal.

    So how come the custodial sentences etc? Well, very often, in normal times, crimes are undercharged. That is, the defendant is charged with a much lesser crime than the facts warrant.

    An extreme example of this was a number years back - the Oxford street stabbing. Two juveniles, in a gang, held a murder victim down, while he was stabbed by another. They could have been charged with murder. But weren’t. They got 12 months under an assault charge…

    In the case of the riots, the CPS started charging people with what they had done. Rather than charging lesser offences.

    So the people sentenced for taking part in the riots were sentenced correctly, according to crimes they have been convicted for, with adequate evidence to sustain the conviction.

    Bit hard to argue “My client committed ABH. The Evil State then charged him with ABH. The bastards.”
    Like @MattW you are not looking at the big picture. If you go and look at the definition of the crime (ie: public order offenses) it is wide open to interpretation, giving enormous powers of discretion to the police. Then if you look at the sentencing guidelines, the judge has enormous discretion in relation to the importance of the 'aggravating factor' - in this case the context of the 'rioting' which then impacts on the end sentence.

    The system was carefully constructed to account for situations like this, when you have a threat to public order and the authority of the state is being challenged. And the state has to decide how to respond and that is fundamentally a political decision. In this case I am saying that they made the wrong decision and the wind is now blowing heavily against them.
    Offences.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,028
    edited November 15
    International irony alert

    Its far easier to get a nice drink in Abu Dhabi airport at 3am than it is in Incheon in Seoul or Manila or even Osaka at any time
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,401
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    We are all, pace @kjh , overlooking the important question:

    Were they animals or do they count as birds?

    Birds are in fact dinosaurs.
    Maybe the ones you’re dating at your age. 😘
    Reptiles as a group includes the birds, because the latter are descended from dinosaurs (which were reptiles). The closest living relatives of the birds are in fact the crocodiles.
    I was only joking.

    You are still my favourite PBer. ❤️

    After Robert, OGH and TSE, obviously. 🙂

    And Viewcode, Ydoethur. Nigel, Malmesbury, Nicky, Barty, Lucky, Malc.
    Decrepit, Stodge, Stu, BigG, Oldy, Ben, Kin, Rotten, Jos. Leon.
    Cyclefree. Yokes. Mr Bristols. The Balrog. And Horse.

    So. See? You’re high on the speed dial.
    Checks list. Sad shake of head…
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    FUCKETTY FUCK FUCK

    Has anyone else read the history of Manila as the Japanese were pushed out by the Americans in 1945?

    I confess I has no idea. It’s as bad - perhaps worse in its wanton pointless intensity - as the Rape of Nanking

    For a start the Japanese made sure to destroy “the most beautiful city in the orient” - Manila was a Spanish colonial pearl

    Worse; the Japanese decided to exterminate - there is no other word - pretty much the entire civilian population. Every living non Japanese person. Men women children babies. Herded into buildings that were then exploded or burned. Thousands of rapes - the girls then killed. Mass beheadings


    Perhaps 100,000 died in a matter of days

    Great book on this subject. But a tough tough read

    https://www.amazon.com/Rampage-MacArthur-Yamashita-Battle-Manila/dp/0393357562?dplnkId=1a989ca7-7353-4b59-8880-eb9fd3ae7e00&nodl=1

    I "enjoyed" Dan Carlins shows about the war in SE.Asia.

    https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-62-supernova-in-the-east-i/

    Quite a lot of the first-hand reports he reads are... not easy going.
    I’ll check it out

    Honestly the Extermination of Manila is right up there with the greatest atrocities of all World War 2. It’s…. Stupefying

    And I had no idea at all. It only emerged (for me) I was asking a… machine.., for interesting books to read about the Philippines

    Wow. I’m genuinely stunned. I regard myself as a pretty good student of history - and this one is entirely new to me
    Max Hastings covers it quite well in "Nemesis", his history of the last couple of years of the Pacific war. Lots of grim stuff all round.
    Combine it with "Armageddon" (the fall of Germany 1944-45) and it's quite depressing. Not nice at all.
    The British lost around 450,000 soldiers and civilians in WW2, lighter by around half of their WW1 casualties (which were overwhelmingly military). Cities were bombed, but on nothing like the scale inflicted on Germany and Japan. As a result out experience of the war was very different to that of other nations. We were never invaded or occupied.
    We have a definite blind spot for just how bad the conflict was, and especially so for the Asian/Pacific theatre.

    The Japanese were every bit as evil, vile and morally bankrupt as the Germans, yet seemingly get nothing like the bad rap. And yet we should know- the fate of Western prisoners of war in Burma and other places is well known. And they got off lightly compared to other Asians under the Japanese.
    Having now read this book Rampage I tend to agree. Nanking was not a one off. Japan was seized of a grim racial supremacism which could easily have led to extermination camps

    Indeed Manila in 1945 WAS an extermination camp they just did it fast with swords bombs guns and fire rather than industrially with Zyklon B

    I hate thinking this as I’ve just spent 3 weeks in Japan and they are the nicest people. I’m trying to reconcile it by concluding they are nice now because there is a deep national shame about what happened in 1920-45
    I came across an Aussie academic (I think) who argued that the
    US insisting on treating the North and to some degree Central Pacific as an American lake after WWI and freezing the UK out contributed to the growth of Japanese militarism. The UK and Japan had been quite ‘matey’ prior to WWI.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    maxh said:

    Cookie said:

    maxh said:

    Off topic, but relevant given discussion on immigration earlier today. I can understand a fear of net migration figures in the hundreds of thousands, but what I find worthy of contempt is when this discussion is divorced from any real understanding of why people are migrating. Today's 'The Take's from Al Jazeera discusses the experiences of women in Sudan: https://pca.st/episode/7874d751-b1e2-4a45-888b-7d8f3f60f9fb.

    To summarise, with apologies for the language: women are being raped at such scale by the RSF that suicide statistics are on the rise as women choose to take their own lives rather than fall into the hands of RSF
    fighters. Is it any surprise that people want to migrate away from this?

    Of course a reasonable response is that sexual violence is such an incredibly common historical fact that it is the modern western world that is unusual for its relative safety for women. That may be true, but I find it grossly unjustifiable to argue that this relative safety should be open only to those who happen to be born in the right part of the world.

    This isn't really an argument for migration - I think it is a really poor solution for everyone concerned - but those who simultaneously argue against migration and against development support for places like Sudan are criminals, in my view.

    Regrettably, however, the experience of Sweden suggests that as well as importing those sheltering from rape they have also been importing a not inconsiderable number of rapists.
    As I said I'm not making a pro-immigration argument. I'm making the argument that we will never reduce the pull of international migration whilst there are parts of the world in the situation Sudan is currently in. Trying to stop migration in
    this context will destroy the ethical basis of
    our nation states as we take more and more
    extreme measures to try to stop people arriving here, having escaped from there.
    I disagree

    Nation states are an artificial construct to support the residents of a given patch of land. While the residents might wish to expand the population for economic or ethical reasons they do not have an obligation to do so.

    Your model implies an ethical obligation to pursue equality of outcomes on a global basis, which I suspect few would sign up to

    A long while back I was at a city diner. At a table with the great and good.

    Brexit was surfacing as a discussion - it was the period when we had something like no government…. I diverted the conversation. I bought up the subject of one of Cameron’s spads who had argued the above - he didn’t see why the inhabitants of the U.K. should come first over people in worse situations around the world.

    Most of the great and good at the table endorsed this view. An exception was an HAC officer, who like me, was half in the can and had a sense of humour.

    He suggested that this variable allegiance thing sounded great. And due to an exercise that weekend, he would shortly be in charge the one of the largest body of armed men and women in London. So what should he do?

    The jokes between him and myself accelerated with the horror on the faces around us. We stopped when we realised that some were taking us seriously*.

    They seriously thought that the allegiance of those below was an iron law. And that of the rulers to the ruled wasn’t.
    I bet you ruined a few evenings! Naughty!
    You'd have thought the bit where we were discussing using the Operation Angel - the plan to mobilise the TA in an emergency, run by a one armed colonel in Defence Ministry - would have blown the joke. Obviously, not enough Tom Cruise fans at the table.
    Be fair it took me a minute. Although "Long live sacred England" does have quite the ring to it... 😃

    One thing I did love about that movie. The Guardian review said that the portrayal of the German generals made them out to be a bunch of neurotics obsessed with status & infighting, like a bunch of soon to be fired actors.

    Which is exactly how they came across in the history books. I mean, FFS, they sent a bloke with about 3 fingers to carry the f**king bomb. Couldn't they have found a large fit bloke, who could have totted 50Kg of fun into the bunker? They only had 10 million candidates for the job....
    There is something essentially distancing about a drama about the Nazi hierarchy populated by Anglo-American actors. They are good - some are very good - but they are not as convincing. Mind you though, if you use German actors it gets more horrific. So it's swings and roundabouts. ☹️
    I think they did it exactly right - the whining, self pity and bumbling around.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,552

    viewcode said:

    maxh said:

    Cookie said:

    maxh said:

    Off topic, but relevant given discussion on immigration earlier today. I can understand a fear of net migration figures in the hundreds of thousands, but what I find worthy of contempt is when this discussion is divorced from any real understanding of why people are migrating. Today's 'The Take's from Al Jazeera discusses the experiences of women in Sudan: https://pca.st/episode/7874d751-b1e2-4a45-888b-7d8f3f60f9fb.

    To summarise, with apologies for the language: women are being raped at such scale by the RSF that suicide statistics are on the rise as women choose to take their own lives rather than fall into the hands of RSF
    fighters. Is it any surprise that people want to migrate away from this?

    Of course a reasonable response is that sexual violence is such an incredibly common historical fact that it is the modern western world that is unusual for its relative safety for women. That may be true, but I find it grossly unjustifiable to argue that this relative safety should be open only to those who happen to be born in the right part of the world.

    This isn't really an argument for migration - I think it is a really poor solution for everyone concerned - but those who simultaneously argue against migration and against development support for places like Sudan are criminals, in my view.

    Regrettably, however, the experience of Sweden suggests that as well as importing those sheltering from rape they have also been importing a not inconsiderable number of rapists.
    As I said I'm not making a pro-immigration argument. I'm making the argument that we will never reduce the pull of international migration whilst there are parts of the world in the situation Sudan is currently in. Trying to stop migration in
    this context will destroy the ethical basis of
    our nation states as we take more and more
    extreme measures to try to stop people arriving here, having escaped from there.
    I disagree

    Nation states are an artificial construct to support the residents of a given patch of land. While the residents might wish to expand the population for economic or ethical reasons they do not have an obligation to do so.

    Your model implies an ethical obligation to pursue equality of outcomes on a global basis, which I suspect few would sign up to

    A long while back I was at a city diner. At a table with the great and good.

    Brexit was surfacing as a discussion - it was the period when we had something like no government…. I diverted the conversation. I bought up the subject of one of Cameron’s spads who had argued the above - he didn’t see why the inhabitants of the U.K. should come first over people in worse situations around the world.

    Most of the great and good at the table endorsed this view. An exception was an HAC officer, who like me, was half in the can and had a sense of humour.

    He suggested that this variable allegiance thing sounded great. And due to an exercise that weekend, he would shortly be in charge the one of the largest body of armed men and women in London. So what should he do?

    The jokes between him and myself accelerated with the horror on the faces around us. We stopped when we realised that some were taking us seriously*.

    They seriously thought that the allegiance of those below was an iron law. And that of the rulers to the ruled wasn’t.
    I bet you ruined a few evenings! Naughty!
    You'd have thought the bit where we were discussing using the Operation Angel - the plan to mobilise the TA in an emergency, run by a one armed colonel in Defence Ministry - would have blown the joke. Obviously, not enough Tom Cruise fans at the table.
    Be fair it took me a minute. Although "Long live sacred England" does have quite the ring to it... 😃

    One thing I did love about that movie. The Guardian review said that the portrayal of the German generals made them out to be a bunch of neurotics obsessed with status & infighting, like a bunch of soon to be fired actors.

    Which is exactly how they came across in the history books. I mean, FFS, they sent a bloke with about 3 fingers to carry the f**king bomb. Couldn't they have found a large fit bloke, who could have totted 50Kg of fun into the bunker? They only had 10 million candidates for the job....
    It needed someone with access to the war room to place the bomb, not just any schmuck.

    It very nearly worked, though what would have happened if it had been successful who knows?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,028
    edited November 15
    Query

    All modern airports now seem to be staffed by charming quite small people, with good English, from South Asia. I’ve seen it in london Frankfurt Korea….

    They look like northern Indians or Sri Lankans or maybe Nepalese. They are very polite, hard working, articulate

    Edit to add: just asked the guy in this bar. Nepalese
  • Leon said:

    International irony alert

    Its far easier to get a nice drink in Abu Dhabi airport at 3am than it is in Incheon in Seoul or Manila or even Osaka at any time

    Speaking of air travel ironies, I recently flew back from Greece and our flight was delayed for an hour (just after midnight local time) so I went to the Starbucks to order a pair of lattes. Although it was late, the airport was still busy and all the cafes/restaurants in the waiting area were still serving.

    Got told by Starbucks that they'd closed for coffees and were only selling bottled drinks now.

    Went to another one, without a brand I recognised, and the barista promptly made 2 lattes for me.
  • Local shenanigans afoot. Aberdeenshire council have just announced that they are closing 13 local libraries, including that in my own village. One of the things I campaigned on in the very recent by-election was to save these libraries. A plan had been agreed to merge services together and use libraries as community hubs. And suddenly 3 additional Tories get elected and the plan gets thrown in the bin.

    News only broke this evening, but I've already called for a protest at the library when it opens in the morning. Cutting services is stupid - the need doesn't go away. And the cost of mopping up the mess is never factored into the "savings" to be made.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    maxh said:

    Cookie said:

    maxh said:

    Off topic, but relevant given discussion on immigration earlier today. I can understand a fear of net migration figures in the hundreds of thousands, but what I find worthy of contempt is when this discussion is divorced from any real understanding of why people are migrating. Today's 'The Take's from Al Jazeera discusses the experiences of women in Sudan: https://pca.st/episode/7874d751-b1e2-4a45-888b-7d8f3f60f9fb.

    To summarise, with apologies for the language: women are being raped at such scale by the RSF that suicide statistics are on the rise as women choose to take their own lives rather than fall into the hands of RSF
    fighters. Is it any surprise that people want to migrate away from this?

    Of course a reasonable response is that sexual violence is such an incredibly common historical fact that it is the modern western world that is unusual for its relative safety for women. That may be true, but I find it grossly unjustifiable to argue that this relative safety should be open only to those who happen to be born in the right part of the world.

    This isn't really an argument for migration - I think it is a really poor solution for everyone concerned - but those who simultaneously argue against migration and against development support for places like Sudan are criminals, in my view.

    Regrettably, however, the experience of Sweden suggests that as well as importing those sheltering from rape they have also been importing a not inconsiderable number of rapists.
    As I said I'm not making a pro-immigration argument. I'm making the argument that we will never reduce the pull of international migration whilst there are parts of the world in the situation Sudan is currently in. Trying to stop migration in
    this context will destroy the ethical basis of
    our nation states as we take more and more
    extreme measures to try to stop people arriving here, having escaped from there.
    I disagree

    Nation states are an artificial construct to support the residents of a given patch of land. While the residents might wish to expand the population for economic or ethical reasons they do not have an obligation to do so.

    Your model implies an ethical obligation to pursue equality of outcomes on a global basis, which I suspect few would sign up to

    A long while back I was at a city diner. At a table with the great and good.

    Brexit was surfacing as a discussion - it was the period when we had something like no government…. I diverted the conversation. I bought up the subject of one of Cameron’s spads who had argued the above - he didn’t see why the inhabitants of the U.K. should come first over people in worse situations around the world.

    Most of the great and good at the table endorsed this view. An exception was an HAC officer, who like me, was half in the can and had a sense of humour.

    He suggested that this variable allegiance thing sounded great. And due to an exercise that weekend, he would shortly be in charge the one of the largest body of armed men and women in London. So what should he do?

    The jokes between him and myself accelerated with the horror on the faces around us. We stopped when we realised that some were taking us seriously*.

    They seriously thought that the allegiance of those below was an iron law. And that of the rulers to the ruled wasn’t.
    I bet you ruined a few evenings! Naughty!
    You'd have thought the bit where we were discussing using the Operation Angel - the plan to mobilise the TA in an emergency, run by a one armed colonel in Defence Ministry - would have blown the joke. Obviously, not enough Tom Cruise fans at the table.
    Be fair it took me a minute. Although "Long live sacred England" does have quite the ring to it... 😃

    One thing I did love about that movie. The Guardian review said that the portrayal of the German generals made them out to be a bunch of neurotics obsessed with status & infighting, like a bunch of soon to be fired actors.

    Which is exactly how they came across in the history books. I mean, FFS, they sent a bloke with about 3 fingers to carry the f**king bomb. Couldn't they have found a large fit bloke, who could have totted 50Kg of fun into the bunker? They only had 10 million candidates for the job....
    It needed someone with access to the war room to place the bomb, not just any schmuck.

    It very nearly worked, though what would have happened if it had been successful who knows?
    The generals in charge of the army could have appointed anyone as Staffenberg’s bag carrier.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,342
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Kemi Badenoch says Keir Starmer is 'cowardly'

    "I don’t think he can mansplain anything to me... He is also quite cowardly, because he relies on his back benches to attack me when I can’t respond, because I can only speak when I am questioning him."

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1857527253518659774

    She shouldn’t be whining. This worries me

    Starmer is a feeble communicator with no charm and a narrow mind. And he is defending an already dire government. She should be able to beat the crap out of him

    Shape up, Kemi
    Opposition is a very different game to government. You don't have actions to defend, but everything else about it is much harder.

    Not many ex-ministers really learn to play the new rules well. None of the Labour 2010 crew did, really. Hague did a bit, but not enough for it to do him any good. Maggie did... in the end. And she had been around the block already in Parliamentary terms. Kemi B has known nothing but government.
    It’s far too early to write her off

    But my fear was and is that she is a lightweight globalist with some mildly anti woke ideas which tickle Tory members. Plus she is pretty and black which seems like fun…. But isn’t enough by itself to put it mildly

    In there anything else to Kemi?

    Let’s hope she grows into the role

    Also, to be fair to Tories the choice was PITIFUL

    Personally I’d have gone for Priti Patel or Suella but I accept my tastes are quirky
    The choice was between someone setting out a very clear policy direction and platform for Government who was an 'unlikeable Tory boy' (albeit who polled more favourably than Kemi) and someone who had all the optics right, and was planning to triumph by sheer force of personality. It was a clear choice, and Kemi, for all her undoubted talent, wasn't it.

    Now Trump has come in and is turning the world upside down, Sir Shitebag is getting let off the hook at PMQs, and Farage is going to be the beneficiary.

    However, Kemi it is and Kemi it must stay. Naturally I think she needs to adopt some robust right wing policies, though I will admit to not being an unbiased observer. Start with setting out a farming policy based around incentives for FOOD PRODUCTION and of course cutting out this inheritance tax bollocks. Jeremy Clarkson. Barbour gilets. That's low hanging fruit for the Tories and it has a good wider message of lowering food prices.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,028

    Leon said:

    International irony alert

    Its far easier to get a nice drink in Abu Dhabi airport at 3am than it is in Incheon in Seoul or Manila or even Osaka at any time

    Speaking of air travel ironies, I recently flew back from Greece and our flight was delayed for an hour (just after midnight local time) so I went to the Starbucks to order a pair of lattes. Although it was late, the airport was still busy and all the cafes/restaurants in the waiting area were still serving.

    Got told by Starbucks that they'd closed for coffees and were only selling bottled drinks now.

    Went to another one, without a brand I recognised, and the barista promptly made 2 lattes for me.
    Why the fuck would you order two milky cofffees after midnight

    UGH

    The Italians have it right. Cappuccinos until noon. Macchiatos until four. Espressos thereafter, and nothing like that after 9. You need to sleep

    The only useful addition to Italian coffee culture is the flat white invented by Aussies. Which is arguably superior to any Italian milky coffee when done right
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,492
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Kemi Badenoch says Keir Starmer is 'cowardly'

    "I don’t think he can mansplain anything to me... He is also quite cowardly, because he relies on his back benches to attack me when I can’t respond, because I can only speak when I am questioning him."

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1857527253518659774

    She shouldn’t be whining. This worries me

    Starmer is a feeble communicator with no charm and a narrow mind. And he is defending an already dire government. She should be able to beat the crap out of him

    Shape up, Kemi
    Opposition is a very different game to government. You don't have actions to defend, but everything else about it is much harder.

    Not many ex-ministers really learn to play the new rules well. None of the Labour 2010 crew did, really. Hague did a bit, but not enough for it to do him any good. Maggie did... in the end. And she had been around the block already in Parliamentary terms. Kemi B has known nothing but government.
    It’s far too early to write her off

    But my fear was and is that she is a lightweight globalist with some mildly anti woke ideas which tickle Tory members. Plus she is pretty and black which seems like fun…. But isn’t enough by itself to put it mildly

    In there anything else to Kemi?

    Let’s hope she grows into the role

    Also, to be fair to Tories the choice was PITIFUL

    Personally I’d have gone for Priti Patel or Suella but I accept my tastes are quirky
    We should wait and see, but we are really waiting for a LOTO who has genuinely heavyweight ideas, and presents an unending stream of critiques of government from a perspective by which it is obvious to the public, whether or not they understand the issues, that the LOTO is clearly the person who should be running the country.

    You can't run a country on 'gotcha' moments. You have to know what you are doing and have principles.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,028

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Kemi Badenoch says Keir Starmer is 'cowardly'

    "I don’t think he can mansplain anything to me... He is also quite cowardly, because he relies on his back benches to attack me when I can’t respond, because I can only speak when I am questioning him."

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1857527253518659774

    She shouldn’t be whining. This worries me

    Starmer is a feeble communicator with no charm and a narrow mind. And he is defending an already dire government. She should be able to beat the crap out of him

    Shape up, Kemi
    Opposition is a very different game to government. You don't have actions to defend, but everything else about it is much harder.

    Not many ex-ministers really learn to play the new rules well. None of the Labour 2010 crew did, really. Hague did a bit, but not enough for it to do him any good. Maggie did... in the end. And she had been around the block already in Parliamentary terms. Kemi B has known nothing but government.
    It’s far too early to write her off

    But my fear was and is that she is a lightweight globalist with some mildly anti woke ideas which tickle Tory members. Plus she is pretty and black which seems like fun…. But isn’t enough by itself to put it mildly

    In there anything else to Kemi?

    Let’s hope she grows into the role

    Also, to be fair to Tories the choice was PITIFUL

    Personally I’d have gone for Priti Patel or Suella but I accept my tastes are quirky
    The choice was between someone setting out a very clear policy direction and platform for Government who was an 'unlikeable Tory boy' (albeit who polled more favourably than Kemi) and someone who had all the optics right, and was planning to triumph by sheer force of personality. It was a clear choice, and Kemi, for all her undoubted talent, wasn't it.

    Now Trump has come in and is turning the world upside down, Sir Shitebag is getting let off the hook at PMQs, and Farage is going to be the beneficiary.

    However, Kemi it is and Kemi it must stay. Naturally I think she needs to adopt some robust right wing policies, though I will admit to not being an unbiased observer. Start with setting out a farming policy based around incentives for FOOD PRODUCTION and of course cutting out this inheritance tax bollocks. Jeremy Clarkson. Barbour gilets. That's low hanging fruit for the Tories and it has a good wider message of lowering food prices.
    I’d be quite happy with Farage as PM in 2028
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,342
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Kemi Badenoch says Keir Starmer is 'cowardly'

    "I don’t think he can mansplain anything to me... He is also quite cowardly, because he relies on his back benches to attack me when I can’t respond, because I can only speak when I am questioning him."

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1857527253518659774

    She shouldn’t be whining. This worries me

    Starmer is a feeble communicator with no charm and a narrow mind. And he is defending an already dire government. She should be able to beat the crap out of him

    Shape up, Kemi
    Opposition is a very different game to government. You don't have actions to defend, but everything else about it is much harder.

    Not many ex-ministers really learn to play the new rules well. None of the Labour 2010 crew did, really. Hague did a bit, but not enough for it to do him any good. Maggie did... in the end. And she had been around the block already in Parliamentary terms. Kemi B has known nothing but government.
    It’s far too early to write her off

    But my fear was and is that she is a lightweight globalist with some mildly anti woke ideas which tickle Tory members. Plus she is pretty and black which seems like fun…. But isn’t enough by itself to put it mildly

    In there anything else to Kemi?

    Let’s hope she grows into the role

    Also, to be fair to Tories the choice was PITIFUL

    Personally I’d have gone for Priti Patel or Suella but I accept my tastes are quirky
    The choice was between someone setting out a very clear policy direction and platform for Government who was an 'unlikeable Tory boy' (albeit who polled more favourably than Kemi) and someone who had all the optics right, and was planning to triumph by sheer force of personality. It was a clear choice, and Kemi, for all her undoubted talent, wasn't it.

    Now Trump has come in and is turning the world upside down, Sir Shitebag is getting let off the hook at PMQs, and Farage is going to be the beneficiary.

    However, Kemi it is and Kemi it must stay. Naturally I think she needs to adopt some robust right wing policies, though I will admit to not being an unbiased observer. Start with setting out a farming policy based around incentives for FOOD PRODUCTION and of course cutting out this inheritance tax bollocks. Jeremy Clarkson. Barbour gilets. That's low hanging fruit for the Tories and it has a good wider message of lowering food prices.
    I’d be quite happy with Farage as PM in 2028
    I really do feel that's the way we're going. With Kemi has DPM as junior coalition partner. It's a prospect I find both exciting and challenging. Let's see how Reform progresses.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,401
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Kemi Badenoch says Keir Starmer is 'cowardly'

    "I don’t think he can mansplain anything to me... He is also quite cowardly, because he relies on his back benches to attack me when I can’t respond, because I can only speak when I am questioning him."

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1857527253518659774

    She shouldn’t be whining. This worries me

    Starmer is a feeble communicator with no charm and a narrow mind. And he is defending an already dire government. She should be able to beat the crap out of him

    Shape up, Kemi
    Opposition is a very different game to government. You don't have actions to defend, but everything else about it is much harder.

    Not many ex-ministers really learn to play the new rules well. None of the Labour 2010 crew did, really. Hague did a bit, but not enough for it to do him any good. Maggie did... in the end. And she had been around the block already in Parliamentary terms. Kemi B has known nothing but government.
    It’s far too early to write her off

    But my fear was and is that she is a lightweight globalist with some mildly anti woke ideas which tickle Tory members. Plus she is pretty and black which seems like fun…. But isn’t enough by itself to put it mildly

    In there anything else to Kemi?

    Let’s hope she grows into the role

    Also, to be fair to Tories the choice was PITIFUL

    Personally I’d have gone for Priti Patel or Suella but I accept my tastes are quirky
    The choice was between someone setting out a very clear policy direction and platform for Government who was an 'unlikeable Tory boy' (albeit who polled more favourably than Kemi) and someone who had all the optics right, and was planning to triumph by sheer force of personality. It was a clear choice, and Kemi, for all her undoubted talent, wasn't it.

    Now Trump has come in and is turning the world upside down, Sir Shitebag is getting let off the hook at PMQs, and Farage is going to be the beneficiary.

    However, Kemi it is and Kemi it must stay. Naturally I think she needs to adopt some robust right wing policies, though I will admit to not being an unbiased observer. Start with setting out a farming policy based around incentives for FOOD PRODUCTION and of course cutting out this inheritance tax bollocks. Jeremy Clarkson. Barbour gilets. That's low hanging fruit for the Tories and it has a good wider message of lowering food prices.
    I’d be quite happy with Farage as PM in 2028
    But you’re out of the country most of the time. Some of us have to here all the time.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,607

    Democratic Wins Media
    @DemocraticWins
    ·
    1h
    BREAKING: Senator John Cornyn has come out and directly refuted Speaker Mike Johnson by saying there should be no limits on the Senate Judiciary Committee’s investigation into Matt Gaetz. There is a battle brewing in the Republican Party.

    https://x.com/DemocraticWins/status/1857525745767108678
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,922
    ,
    Leon said:

    International irony alert

    Its far easier to get a nice drink in Abu Dhabi airport at 3am than it is in Incheon in Seoul or Manila or even Osaka at any time

    The UK is the centre of civilisation. The further from the UK, the worse things are. Abu Dhabi is nearer the UK than Seoul, Manila or Osaka. For proof - Australia.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,497
    https://x.com/tomhfh/status/1857535988764922212

    The Telegraph can reveal that a group of Lords, led by the former Foreign Office minister Lord Bellingham, is planning to help Mr Trump by forcing the Government to hold a referendum of Chagossians in the UK on the deal before it can take effect.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,922

    Leon said:

    International irony alert

    Its far easier to get a nice drink in Abu Dhabi airport at 3am than it is in Incheon in Seoul or Manila or even Osaka at any time

    Speaking of air travel ironies, I recently flew back from Greece and our flight was delayed for an hour (just after midnight local time) so I went to the Starbucks to order a pair of lattes. Although it was late, the airport was still busy and all the cafes/restaurants in the waiting area were still serving.

    Got told by Starbucks that they'd closed for coffees and were only selling bottled drinks now.

    Went to another one, without a brand I recognised, and the barista promptly made 2 lattes for me.
    Can anyone give an example of where a chain store is better than a local business?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048


    Democratic Wins Media
    @DemocraticWins
    ·
    1h
    BREAKING: Senator John Cornyn has come out and directly refuted Speaker Mike Johnson by saying there should be no limits on the Senate Judiciary Committee’s investigation into Matt Gaetz. There is a battle brewing in the Republican Party.

    https://x.com/DemocraticWins/status/1857525745767108678

    IDEA

    Starmer arranges for Matt Gaetz to join the Met Police Force. This, traditionally shuts down any and all investigations into past behaviour.

    Plus, Gaetz will fit the culture of the Met, perfectly.

    Then Trump (and Gaetz) will owe Starmer a favour.

    I can’t find any flaws in this plan.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    International irony alert

    Its far easier to get a nice drink in Abu Dhabi airport at 3am than it is in Incheon in Seoul or Manila or even Osaka at any time

    Speaking of air travel ironies, I recently flew back from Greece and our flight was delayed for an hour (just after midnight local time) so I went to the Starbucks to order a pair of lattes. Although it was late, the airport was still busy and all the cafes/restaurants in the waiting area were still serving.

    Got told by Starbucks that they'd closed for coffees and were only selling bottled drinks now.

    Went to another one, without a brand I recognised, and the barista promptly made 2 lattes for me.
    Why the fuck would you order two milky cofffees after midnight

    UGH

    The Italians have it right. Cappuccinos until noon. Macchiatos until four. Espressos thereafter, and nothing like that after 9. You need to sleep

    The only useful addition to Italian coffee culture is the flat white invented by Aussies. Which is arguably superior to any Italian milky coffee when done right
    Because I like them and because I was not going to sleep, I was waiting another hour for my delayed flight.

    And I can drink coffee and then sleep anyway, if I do want to sleep, it does not prevent me from doing so - but I did not, I wanted to be awake.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,552
    edited November 15

    https://x.com/tomhfh/status/1857535988764922212

    The Telegraph can reveal that a group of Lords, led by the former Foreign Office minister Lord Bellingham, is planning to help Mr Trump by forcing the Government to hold a referendum of Chagossians in the UK on the deal before it can take effect.

    So does Sovreignty means that when Trump says "jump", we ask "how high?"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    Foxy said:

    https://x.com/tomhfh/status/1857535988764922212

    The Telegraph can reveal that a group of Lords, led by the former Foreign Office minister Lord Bellingham, is planning to help Mr Trump by forcing the Government to hold a referendum of Chagossians in the UK on the deal before it can take effect.

    So does Sovreignty means that when Trump says "jump", we ask "how high?"
    Not sure that holding a referendum among the people actually concerned is other than the right thing.

    Seems to me that they’ve been treated as chess pieces in other people’s games, quite long enough.

    Why is asking then what they want, so terrible?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,028
    Foxy said:

    https://x.com/tomhfh/status/1857535988764922212

    The Telegraph can reveal that a group of Lords, led by the former Foreign Office minister Lord Bellingham, is planning to help Mr Trump by forcing the Government to hold a referendum of Chagossians in the UK on the deal before it can take effect.

    So does Soverignty means that when Trump says "jump", we ask "how high?"
    Your justification for the original Chagos Surrender was “well the Americans wanted it, what choice did we have”

    I told you this was bullshit. It is bullshit. And now the Americans are overtly asking for something different and suddenly they are “interfering in our sovereignty”

    No one wants this deal apart from China, maybe Mauritius and woke twats like you

    For the rest of the world it is a disaster and that includes the chagossians THEMSELVES. They would prefer to be British citizens in British territory with British rights. But better access to the atolls

    That can be arranged without handing over 600,000 sq km of the Indian Ocean to China
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,028

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    International irony alert

    Its far easier to get a nice drink in Abu Dhabi airport at 3am than it is in Incheon in Seoul or Manila or even Osaka at any time

    Speaking of air travel ironies, I recently flew back from Greece and our flight was delayed for an hour (just after midnight local time) so I went to the Starbucks to order a pair of lattes. Although it was late, the airport was still busy and all the cafes/restaurants in the waiting area were still serving.

    Got told by Starbucks that they'd closed for coffees and were only selling bottled drinks now.

    Went to another one, without a brand I recognised, and the barista promptly made 2 lattes for me.
    Why the fuck would you order two milky cofffees after midnight

    UGH

    The Italians have it right. Cappuccinos until noon. Macchiatos until four. Espressos thereafter, and nothing like that after 9. You need to sleep

    The only useful addition to Italian coffee culture is the flat white invented by Aussies. Which is arguably superior to any Italian milky coffee when done right
    Because I like them and because I was not going to sleep, I was waiting another hour for my delayed flight.

    And I can drink coffee and then sleep anyway, if I do want to sleep, it does not prevent me from doing so - but I did not, I wanted to be awake.
    It personally offends me when people order milky coffees after midday but each to their own
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,221

    Leon said:

    International irony alert

    Its far easier to get a nice drink in Abu Dhabi airport at 3am than it is in Incheon in Seoul or Manila or even Osaka at any time

    Speaking of air travel ironies, I recently flew back from Greece and our flight was delayed for an hour (just after midnight local time) so I went to the Starbucks to order a pair of lattes. Although it was late, the airport was still busy and all the cafes/restaurants in the waiting area were still serving.

    Got told by Starbucks that they'd closed for coffees and were only selling bottled drinks now.

    Went to another one, without a brand I recognised, and the barista promptly made 2 lattes for me.
    Can anyone give an example of where a chain store is better than a local business?
    I spent a memorable weekend in Moscow a few years back whilst on the way to the Beijing Olympics by train.

    Our breakfast options within walking distance of our hotel were (a) fried 'meat' dumplings with apparently compulsory quadruple shot of vodka from the local business or (b) the golden arches.

    Well, you did ask.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    International irony alert

    Its far easier to get a nice drink in Abu Dhabi airport at 3am than it is in Incheon in Seoul or Manila or even Osaka at any time

    Speaking of air travel ironies, I recently flew back from Greece and our flight was delayed for an hour (just after midnight local time) so I went to the Starbucks to order a pair of lattes. Although it was late, the airport was still busy and all the cafes/restaurants in the waiting area were still serving.

    Got told by Starbucks that they'd closed for coffees and were only selling bottled drinks now.

    Went to another one, without a brand I recognised, and the barista promptly made 2 lattes for me.
    Why the fuck would you order two milky cofffees after midnight

    UGH

    The Italians have it right. Cappuccinos until noon. Macchiatos until four. Espressos thereafter, and nothing like that after 9. You need to sleep

    The only useful addition to Italian coffee culture is the flat white invented by Aussies. Which is arguably superior to any Italian milky coffee when done right
    Because I like them and because I was not going to sleep, I was waiting another hour for my delayed flight.

    And I can drink coffee and then sleep anyway, if I do want to sleep, it does not prevent me from doing so - but I did not, I wanted to be awake.
    It personally offends me when people order milky coffees after midday but each to their own
    Not sure why.

    I have a bean to cup coffee machine at home that includes a milk steaming wand so I can make my own lattes at home and I'll happily have them in the evening.

    I'm not entirely sure what about warm milk in the evening offends you, would you object to a hot chocolate or cocoa or other hot milky drinks in the evening?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,923
    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    Cookie said:

    maxh said:

    Off topic, but relevant given discussion on immigration earlier today. I can understand a fear of net migration figures in the hundreds of thousands, but what I find worthy of contempt is when this discussion is divorced from any real understanding of why people are migrating. Today's 'The Take's from Al Jazeera discusses the experiences of women in Sudan: https://pca.st/episode/7874d751-b1e2-4a45-888b-7d8f3f60f9fb.

    To summarise, with apologies for the language: women are being raped at such scale by the RSF that suicide statistics are on the rise as women choose to take their own lives rather than fall into the hands of RSF
    fighters. Is it any surprise that people want to migrate away from this?

    Of course a reasonable response is that sexual violence is such an incredibly common historical fact that it is the modern western world that is unusual for its relative safety for women. That may be true, but I find it grossly unjustifiable to argue that this relative safety should be open only to those who happen to be born in the right part of the world.

    This isn't really an argument for migration - I think it is a really poor solution for everyone concerned - but those who simultaneously argue against migration and against development support for places like Sudan are criminals, in my view.

    Regrettably, however, the experience of Sweden suggests that as well as importing those sheltering from rape they have also been importing a not inconsiderable number of rapists.
    As I said I'm not making a pro-immigration argument. I'm making the argument that we will never reduce the pull of international migration whilst there are parts of the world in the situation Sudan is currently in. Trying to stop migration in
    this context will destroy the ethical basis of our nation states as we take more and more extreme measures to try to stop people arriving here, having escaped from there.
    Afghan woman are even more deserving of our help than those in Sudan. What is being done to them is truly evil.
    They are no longer allowed even to speak in public.
    Barbaric doesn't describe it, since many barbarians were more civilised.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,239

    Kemi Badenoch says Keir Starmer is 'cowardly'

    "I don’t think he can mansplain anything to me... He is also quite cowardly, because he relies on his back benches to attack me when I can’t respond, because I can only speak when I am questioning him."

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1857527253518659774

    If I was Kemi, I would wear all those Labour MP's getting up to attack her as a badge of honour.

    Labour MP's look obsessed about her and... worried?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,028
    lol.

    Elon Musk’s companies are soaring in value and are worth $50-150bn more than they were pre-election, with values expected to surge further

    Remind me, how much did he pay for TwiX so as to win the election?

    “Two of Elon Musk’s private companies are set to secure multibillion-dollar jumps in valuation through new deals, as investors race to back the sprawling business interests of the world’s richest man.”

    FT (££)

    Amazing what an idiot can do if he is consistently lucky
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,923
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Kemi Badenoch says Keir Starmer is 'cowardly'

    "I don’t think he can mansplain anything to me... He is also quite cowardly, because he relies on his back benches to attack me when I can’t respond, because I can only speak when I am questioning him."

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1857527253518659774

    She shouldn’t be whining. This worries me

    Starmer is a feeble communicator with no charm and a narrow mind. And he is defending an already dire government. She should be able to beat the crap out of him

    Shape up, Kemi
    Opposition is a very different game to government. You don't have actions to defend, but everything else about it is much harder.

    Not many ex-ministers really learn to play the new rules well. None of the Labour 2010 crew did, really. Hague did a bit, but not enough for it to do him any good. Maggie did... in the end. And she had been around the block already in Parliamentary terms. Kemi B has known nothing but government.
    It’s far too early to write her off

    But my fear was and is that she is a lightweight globalist with some mildly anti woke ideas which tickle Tory members. Plus she is pretty and black which seems like fun…. But isn’t enough by itself to put it mildly

    In there anything else to Kemi?

    Let’s hope she grows into the role

    Also, to be fair to Tories the choice was PITIFUL

    Personally I’d have gone for Priti Patel or Suella but I accept my tastes are quirky
    The choice was between someone setting out a very clear policy direction and platform for Government who was an 'unlikeable Tory boy' (albeit who polled more favourably than Kemi) and someone who had all the optics right, and was planning to triumph by sheer force of personality. It was a clear choice, and Kemi, for all her undoubted talent, wasn't it.

    Now Trump has come in and is turning the world upside down, Sir Shitebag is getting let off the hook at PMQs, and Farage is going to be the beneficiary.

    However, Kemi it is and Kemi it must stay. Naturally I think she needs to adopt some robust right wing policies, though I will admit to not being an unbiased observer. Start with setting out a farming policy based around incentives for FOOD PRODUCTION and of course cutting out this inheritance tax bollocks. Jeremy Clarkson. Barbour gilets. That's low hanging fruit for the Tories and it has a good wider message of lowering food prices.
    I’d be quite happy with Farage as PM in 2028
    No doubt.
    You're not exactly selective when it comes to voting for PMs.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,552

    Foxy said:

    https://x.com/tomhfh/status/1857535988764922212

    The Telegraph can reveal that a group of Lords, led by the former Foreign Office minister Lord Bellingham, is planning to help Mr Trump by forcing the Government to hold a referendum of Chagossians in the UK on the deal before it can take effect.

    So does Sovreignty means that when Trump says "jump", we ask "how high?"
    Not sure that holding a referendum among the people actually concerned is other than the right thing.

    Seems to me that they’ve been treated as chess pieces in other people’s games, quite long enough.

    Why is asking then what they want, so terrible?
    Are we going to poll the Chagossians living in Mauritius too?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,607
    Nigelb said:

    Muslims who voted Trump upset by his pro-Israel cabinet picks

    "Trump won because of us and we’re not happy with his Sec of State pick and others,” says Rabiul Chowdhury, who chaired the Abandon Harris campaign in PA...

    https://x.com/TommyInPA/status/1857503213294915720

    Leon levels of political awareness.

    Darwin award level.

    Thoughts and prayers for Dearborn.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,607
    GIN1138 said:

    Kemi Badenoch says Keir Starmer is 'cowardly'

    "I don’t think he can mansplain anything to me... He is also quite cowardly, because he relies on his back benches to attack me when I can’t respond, because I can only speak when I am questioning him."

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1857527253518659774

    If I was Kemi, I would wear all those Labour MP's getting up to attack her as a badge of honour.

    Labour MP's look obsessed about her and... worried?
    Labour so far look completely one term frankly, so they are right to be worried.

    Why, for example, make being top growth in G7 as one of your top five targets, front and centre, when you have no real control of the wider world economy?

    Four months in and the growth is basically zero.
  • If Olly runs the business with his dad he should own 50%. So the £3million exemption and 20% iht is for *half* the farm. So Ollie would only pay inheritance tax at 10% on anything above £6million. Olly can fuck right off with his sob story.

    https://x.com/Cordeli43872191/status/1857544362390872184
  • GIN1138 said:

    Kemi Badenoch says Keir Starmer is 'cowardly'

    "I don’t think he can mansplain anything to me... He is also quite cowardly, because he relies on his back benches to attack me when I can’t respond, because I can only speak when I am questioning him."

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1857527253518659774

    If I was Kemi, I would wear all those Labour MP's getting up to attack her as a badge of honour.

    Labour MP's look obsessed about her and... worried?
    Labour so far look completely one term frankly, so they are right to be worried.

    Why, for example, make being top growth in G7 as one of your top five targets, front and centre, when you have no real control of the wider world economy?

    Four months in and the growth is basically zero.
    Labour will be one term if voters don't feel the country is getting better.
  • I do wonder if SKS will resign perhaps in 2028 and let Wes Streeting or Reeves take over.

    It won't be because he's forced out though, just because he'll be rather old by then.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,635
    edited November 15

    If Olly runs the business with his dad he should own 50%. So the £3million exemption and 20% iht is for *half* the farm. So Ollie would only pay inheritance tax at 10% on anything above £6million. Olly can fuck right off with his sob story.

    https://x.com/Cordeli43872191/status/1857544362390872184

    £3m exemption is only for a couple.

    You can't have this both ways though.

    If it isn't raising very much, why do it?
  • If Olly runs the business with his dad he should own 50%. So the £3million exemption and 20% iht is for *half* the farm. So Ollie would only pay inheritance tax at 10% on anything above £6million. Olly can fuck right off with his sob story.

    https://x.com/Cordeli43872191/status/1857544362390872184

    £3m exemption is only for a couple.

    You can't have this both ways though.

    If it isn't raising very much, why do it?
    Because farmers shouldn't be treated differently to everyone else.

    Whether it was politically sensible is another question.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,607

    I do wonder if SKS will resign perhaps in 2028 and let Wes Streeting or Reeves take over.

    It won't be because he's forced out though, just because he'll be rather old by then.

    Doubt it will be Reeves now.

    Not sure she will still be chancellor in another two years.

    Just too many political mistakes frankly.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,479

    I do wonder if SKS will resign perhaps in 2028 and let Wes Streeting or Reeves take over.

    It won't be because he's forced out though, just because he'll be rather old by then.

    65 isn't old these days. But I agree Streeting would be a good choice as next leader.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,258

    If Olly runs the business with his dad he should own 50%. So the £3million exemption and 20% iht is for *half* the farm. So Ollie would only pay inheritance tax at 10% on anything above £6million. Olly can fuck right off with his sob story.

    https://x.com/Cordeli43872191/status/1857544362390872184

    I do wonder whether Labour should be a bit more forceful about pushing back on this.
    "We had to make some very tough choices this budget. But this wasn't one. We do think multi millionaires can pay a bit more tax and we are determined to close down tax loopholes..."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited November 15
    The editor of a prominent science journal has resigned after calling Gen X “fascists” following Donald Trump’s election.

    Laura Helmuth announced she would leave Scientific American on Thursday following a series of controversial social media posts in which she lashed out at “bigoted” and “dumb” voters. She has since apologised for the remarks, which she said were “a mistaken expression of shock and confusion”, and deleted the posts.

    “These posts of course do not reflect the position of Scientific American or my colleagues. I am committed to civil communication and editorial objectivity.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2024/11/15/laura-helmuthg-resigns-after-calling-gen-x-fascists/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    Eabhal said:

    If Olly runs the business with his dad he should own 50%. So the £3million exemption and 20% iht is for *half* the farm. So Ollie would only pay inheritance tax at 10% on anything above £6million. Olly can fuck right off with his sob story.

    https://x.com/Cordeli43872191/status/1857544362390872184

    £3m exemption is only for a couple.

    You can't have this both ways though.

    If it isn't raising very much, why do it?
    Because there is a growing trend for billionaires to use farms as a tax dodge. Getting in quick before things becomes a major issue is the kind of thing I'd like to see more of from the government.
    Then target the tax dodge and not the farmers. Getting the money *out* is the tax dodge ending… so target that.
  • A presentation by Ofsted to education leaders outlining the proposals, first reported by the Financial Times, highlighted the top grade, “exemplary”, in purple, followed by “strong practice” in green, “secure” in lime, “attention needed” in yellow and the lowest rating, “causing concern”, in red.

    The 10 key areas to be graded are: curriculum, teaching, safeguarding, achievement, leadership, behaviour and values, attendance, preparation for next steps, opportunities, and inclusion and belonging.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/nov/15/schools-in-england-could-be-judged-on-scale-of-colours-in-ofsted-proposals

    Sounds like some marketing consultants have been employed.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,755
    rkrkrk said:

    If Olly runs the business with his dad he should own 50%. So the £3million exemption and 20% iht is for *half* the farm. So Ollie would only pay inheritance tax at 10% on anything above £6million. Olly can fuck right off with his sob story.

    https://x.com/Cordeli43872191/status/1857544362390872184

    I do wonder whether Labour should be a bit more forceful about pushing back on this.
    "We had to make some very tough choices this budget. But this wasn't one. We do think multi millionaires can pay a bit more tax and we are determined to close down tax loopholes..."
    What they should do is announce it, let the press go wild with sob stories, then stay silent, then reverse the decision partially, depending on a whole lot more Whitehall civil servants assessing each case.

    You can write the Yes, Minister script using my "Very Obvious GPT" for only $1 per prompt.
  • Eabhal said:

    If Olly runs the business with his dad he should own 50%. So the £3million exemption and 20% iht is for *half* the farm. So Ollie would only pay inheritance tax at 10% on anything above £6million. Olly can fuck right off with his sob story.

    https://x.com/Cordeli43872191/status/1857544362390872184

    £3m exemption is only for a couple.

    You can't have this both ways though.

    If it isn't raising very much, why do it?
    Because there is a growing trend for billionaires to use farms as a tax dodge. Getting in quick before things becomes a major issue is the kind of thing I'd like to see more of from the government.
    Then target the tax dodge and not the farmers. Getting the money *out* is the tax dodge ending… so target that.
    Why not target both?

    Taxes should be low, flat and applied to everyone. Removing exemptions is a good thing.

    And the exemption didn't exist until relatively recently anyway - people complaining about family farms that have been in the family for generations . . . well then, for generations it survived without this exemption.
  • rkrkrk said:

    If Olly runs the business with his dad he should own 50%. So the £3million exemption and 20% iht is for *half* the farm. So Ollie would only pay inheritance tax at 10% on anything above £6million. Olly can fuck right off with his sob story.

    https://x.com/Cordeli43872191/status/1857544362390872184

    I do wonder whether Labour should be a bit more forceful about pushing back on this.
    "We had to make some very tough choices this budget. But this wasn't one. We do think multi millionaires can pay a bit more tax and we are determined to close down tax loopholes..."
    I just think this government is a bit crap at times.

    They seem to say and act in a good way on certain things, like on the NHS Streeting seems to be saying a lot of sensible stuff and it seems to be being managed fairly well and the comms are good.

    And the way he pushed back on private school fees was forceful and worked well. I think he bought more advocates than detractors.

    So it is baffling that for this kind of thing they can't get somebody similar.

    But then I think Streeting is by far the best performer on the front bench, with a genuinely interesting story to tell.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,308

    A presentation by Ofsted to education leaders outlining the proposals, first reported by the Financial Times, highlighted the top grade, “exemplary”, in purple, followed by “strong practice” in green, “secure” in lime, “attention needed” in yellow and the lowest rating, “causing concern”, in red.

    The 10 key areas to be graded are: curriculum, teaching, safeguarding, achievement, leadership, behaviour and values, attendance, preparation for next steps, opportunities, and inclusion and belonging.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/nov/15/schools-in-england-could-be-judged-on-scale-of-colours-in-ofsted-proposals

    Sounds like some marketing consultants have been employed.

    What the fuck?

    Spielman was mad, bad and useless.

    How could they have come up with something even more inane and divorced from reality?

    That's extraordinary.
  • Eabhal said:

    If Olly runs the business with his dad he should own 50%. So the £3million exemption and 20% iht is for *half* the farm. So Ollie would only pay inheritance tax at 10% on anything above £6million. Olly can fuck right off with his sob story.

    https://x.com/Cordeli43872191/status/1857544362390872184

    £3m exemption is only for a couple.

    You can't have this both ways though.

    If it isn't raising very much, why do it?
    Because there is a growing trend for billionaires to use farms as a tax dodge. Getting in quick before things becomes a major issue is the kind of thing I'd like to see more of from the government.
    Then target the tax dodge and not the farmers. Getting the money *out* is the tax dodge ending… so target that.
    Why not target both?

    Taxes should be low, flat and applied to everyone. Removing exemptions is a good thing.

    And the exemption didn't exist until relatively recently anyway - people complaining about family farms that have been in the family for generations . . . well then, for generations it survived without this exemption.
    This is the thing I really do not get. The way this is being framed is that Labour is killing off something that sustained farms for generations. When it hasn't.

    I mean come on, Jeremy Clarkson is on record saying he bought a farm to avoid IHT. I love Clarkson's Farm and I take nothing away from him with how hard he does work but that doesn't mean he should be exempt. He just made a bad financial call. Boasting about it was foolish.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,948
    ydoethur said:

    A presentation by Ofsted to education leaders outlining the proposals, first reported by the Financial Times, highlighted the top grade, “exemplary”, in purple, followed by “strong practice” in green, “secure” in lime, “attention needed” in yellow and the lowest rating, “causing concern”, in red.

    The 10 key areas to be graded are: curriculum, teaching, safeguarding, achievement, leadership, behaviour and values, attendance, preparation for next steps, opportunities, and inclusion and belonging.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/nov/15/schools-in-england-could-be-judged-on-scale-of-colours-in-ofsted-proposals

    Sounds like some marketing consultants have been employed.

    What the fuck?

    Spielman was mad, bad and useless.

    How could they have come up with something even more inane and divorced from reality?

    That's extraordinary.
    The demand was an end to single judgements. It was perhaps predictable that this would lead to the introduction of a multiplicity of judgements...
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,755

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    International irony alert

    Its far easier to get a nice drink in Abu Dhabi airport at 3am than it is in Incheon in Seoul or Manila or even Osaka at any time

    Speaking of air travel ironies, I recently flew back from Greece and our flight was delayed for an hour (just after midnight local time) so I went to the Starbucks to order a pair of lattes. Although it was late, the airport was still busy and all the cafes/restaurants in the waiting area were still serving.

    Got told by Starbucks that they'd closed for coffees and were only selling bottled drinks now.

    Went to another one, without a brand I recognised, and the barista promptly made 2 lattes for me.
    Why the fuck would you order two milky cofffees after midnight

    UGH

    The Italians have it right. Cappuccinos until noon. Macchiatos until four. Espressos thereafter, and nothing like that after 9. You need to sleep

    The only useful addition to Italian coffee culture is the flat white invented by Aussies. Which is arguably superior to any Italian milky coffee when done right
    Because I like them and because I was not going to sleep, I was waiting another hour for my delayed flight.

    And I can drink coffee and then sleep anyway, if I do want to sleep, it does not prevent me from doing so - but I did not, I wanted to be awake.
    It personally offends me when people order milky coffees after midday but each to their own
    Not sure why.

    I have a bean to cup coffee machine at home that includes a milk steaming wand so I can make my own lattes at home and I'll happily have them in the evening.

    I'm not entirely sure what about warm milk in the evening offends you, would you object to a hot chocolate or cocoa or other hot milky drinks in the evening?
    Is 'Ovaltine' still a thing? I remember it being the 'weird milky drink' of choice in the early 80s.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,923
    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    International irony alert

    Its far easier to get a nice drink in Abu Dhabi airport at 3am than it is in Incheon in Seoul or Manila or even Osaka at any time

    Speaking of air travel ironies, I recently flew back from Greece and our flight was delayed for an hour (just after midnight local time) so I went to the Starbucks to order a pair of lattes. Although it was late, the airport was still busy and all the cafes/restaurants in the waiting area were still serving.

    Got told by Starbucks that they'd closed for coffees and were only selling bottled drinks now.

    Went to another one, without a brand I recognised, and the barista promptly made 2 lattes for me.
    Why the fuck would you order two milky cofffees after midnight

    UGH

    The Italians have it right. Cappuccinos until noon. Macchiatos until four. Espressos thereafter, and nothing like that after 9. You need to sleep

    The only useful addition to Italian coffee culture is the flat white invented by Aussies. Which is arguably superior to any Italian milky coffee when done right
    Because I like them and because I was not going to sleep, I was waiting another hour for my delayed flight.

    And I can drink coffee and then sleep anyway, if I do want to sleep, it does not prevent me from doing so - but I did not, I wanted to be awake.
    It personally offends me when people order milky coffees after midday but each to their own
    Not sure why.

    I have a bean to cup coffee machine at home that includes a milk steaming wand so I can make my own lattes at home and I'll happily have them in the evening.

    I'm not entirely sure what about warm milk in the evening offends you, would you object to a hot chocolate or cocoa or other hot milky drinks in the evening?
    Is 'Ovaltine' still a thing? I remember it being the 'weird milky drink' of choice in the early 80s.
    Apparently.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovaltine

    In half a century, I don't recall coming across anyone who actually drinks it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,479
    "Andrew Tettenborn
    Non-crime hate incidents are out of control"

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/non-hate-crime-incidents-are-out-of-control/
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,258

    rkrkrk said:

    If Olly runs the business with his dad he should own 50%. So the £3million exemption and 20% iht is for *half* the farm. So Ollie would only pay inheritance tax at 10% on anything above £6million. Olly can fuck right off with his sob story.

    https://x.com/Cordeli43872191/status/1857544362390872184

    I do wonder whether Labour should be a bit more forceful about pushing back on this.
    "We had to make some very tough choices this budget. But this wasn't one. We do think multi millionaires can pay a bit more tax and we are determined to close down tax loopholes..."
    I just think this government is a bit crap at times.

    They seem to say and act in a good way on certain things, like on the NHS Streeting seems to be saying a lot of sensible stuff and it seems to be being managed fairly well and the comms are good.

    And the way he pushed back on private school fees was forceful and worked well. I think he bought more advocates than detractors.

    So it is baffling that for this kind of thing they can't get somebody similar.

    But then I think Streeting is by far the best performer on the front bench, with a genuinely interesting story to tell.
    Agreed. I think the public are ready for politicians who actually disagree with members of the public and state what they believe in. It shows strength and makes people remember what you are for.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,384

    The editor of a prominent science journal has resigned after calling Gen X “fascists” following Donald Trump’s election.

    Laura Helmuth announced she would leave Scientific American on Thursday following a series of controversial social media posts in which she lashed out at “bigoted” and “dumb” voters. She has since apologised for the remarks, which she said were “a mistaken expression of shock and confusion”, and deleted the posts.

    “These posts of course do not reflect the position of Scientific American or my colleagues. I am committed to civil communication and editorial objectivity.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2024/11/15/laura-helmuthg-resigns-after-calling-gen-x-fascists/

    Bloody hell! That's astonishing.
    Someone actually noticed Gen X!!
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,228
    Nigelb said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    International irony alert

    Its far easier to get a nice drink in Abu Dhabi airport at 3am than it is in Incheon in Seoul or Manila or even Osaka at any time

    Speaking of air travel ironies, I recently flew back from Greece and our flight was delayed for an hour (just after midnight local time) so I went to the Starbucks to order a pair of lattes. Although it was late, the airport was still busy and all the cafes/restaurants in the waiting area were still serving.

    Got told by Starbucks that they'd closed for coffees and were only selling bottled drinks now.

    Went to another one, without a brand I recognised, and the barista promptly made 2 lattes for me.
    Why the fuck would you order two milky cofffees after midnight

    UGH

    The Italians have it right. Cappuccinos until noon. Macchiatos until four. Espressos thereafter, and nothing like that after 9. You need to sleep

    The only useful addition to Italian coffee culture is the flat white invented by Aussies. Which is arguably superior to any Italian milky coffee when done right
    Because I like them and because I was not going to sleep, I was waiting another hour for my delayed flight.

    And I can drink coffee and then sleep anyway, if I do want to sleep, it does not prevent me from doing so - but I did not, I wanted to be awake.
    It personally offends me when people order milky coffees after midday but each to their own
    Not sure why.

    I have a bean to cup coffee machine at home that includes a milk steaming wand so I can make my own lattes at home and I'll happily have them in the evening.

    I'm not entirely sure what about warm milk in the evening offends you, would you object to a hot chocolate or cocoa or other hot milky drinks in the evening?
    Is 'Ovaltine' still a thing? I remember it being the 'weird milky drink' of choice in the early 80s.
    Apparently.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovaltine

    In half a century, I don't recall coming across anyone who actually drinks it.
    There was even a youthful fan club called Ovaltinis.

    Nowadays they're just oval.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,755
    Nigelb said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    International irony alert

    Its far easier to get a nice drink in Abu Dhabi airport at 3am than it is in Incheon in Seoul or Manila or even Osaka at any time

    Speaking of air travel ironies, I recently flew back from Greece and our flight was delayed for an hour (just after midnight local time) so I went to the Starbucks to order a pair of lattes. Although it was late, the airport was still busy and all the cafes/restaurants in the waiting area were still serving.

    Got told by Starbucks that they'd closed for coffees and were only selling bottled drinks now.

    Went to another one, without a brand I recognised, and the barista promptly made 2 lattes for me.
    Why the fuck would you order two milky cofffees after midnight

    UGH

    The Italians have it right. Cappuccinos until noon. Macchiatos until four. Espressos thereafter, and nothing like that after 9. You need to sleep

    The only useful addition to Italian coffee culture is the flat white invented by Aussies. Which is arguably superior to any Italian milky coffee when done right
    Because I like them and because I was not going to sleep, I was waiting another hour for my delayed flight.

    And I can drink coffee and then sleep anyway, if I do want to sleep, it does not prevent me from doing so - but I did not, I wanted to be awake.
    It personally offends me when people order milky coffees after midday but each to their own
    Not sure why.

    I have a bean to cup coffee machine at home that includes a milk steaming wand so I can make my own lattes at home and I'll happily have them in the evening.

    I'm not entirely sure what about warm milk in the evening offends you, would you object to a hot chocolate or cocoa or other hot milky drinks in the evening?
    Is 'Ovaltine' still a thing? I remember it being the 'weird milky drink' of choice in the early 80s.
    Apparently.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovaltine

    In half a century, I don't recall coming across anyone who actually drinks it.
    I have a faint memory of drinking it and it being a claggy, phlegmy, milky mucous ordeal. Which is now making me nauseous all over again.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    ydoethur said:

    A presentation by Ofsted to education leaders outlining the proposals, first reported by the Financial Times, highlighted the top grade, “exemplary”, in purple, followed by “strong practice” in green, “secure” in lime, “attention needed” in yellow and the lowest rating, “causing concern”, in red.

    The 10 key areas to be graded are: curriculum, teaching, safeguarding, achievement, leadership, behaviour and values, attendance, preparation for next steps, opportunities, and inclusion and belonging.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/nov/15/schools-in-england-could-be-judged-on-scale-of-colours-in-ofsted-proposals

    Sounds like some marketing consultants have been employed.

    What the fuck?

    Spielman was mad, bad and useless.

    How could they have come up with something even more inane and divorced from reality?

    That's extraordinary.
    A government run by a professional lawyer.

    Add some more Process. Some more bullshit bingo. If we just add enough, perfection will be achieved.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,497
    Nigelb said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    International irony alert

    Its far easier to get a nice drink in Abu Dhabi airport at 3am than it is in Incheon in Seoul or Manila or even Osaka at any time

    Speaking of air travel ironies, I recently flew back from Greece and our flight was delayed for an hour (just after midnight local time) so I went to the Starbucks to order a pair of lattes. Although it was late, the airport was still busy and all the cafes/restaurants in the waiting area were still serving.

    Got told by Starbucks that they'd closed for coffees and were only selling bottled drinks now.

    Went to another one, without a brand I recognised, and the barista promptly made 2 lattes for me.
    Why the fuck would you order two milky cofffees after midnight

    UGH

    The Italians have it right. Cappuccinos until noon. Macchiatos until four. Espressos thereafter, and nothing like that after 9. You need to sleep

    The only useful addition to Italian coffee culture is the flat white invented by Aussies. Which is arguably superior to any Italian milky coffee when done right
    Because I like them and because I was not going to sleep, I was waiting another hour for my delayed flight.

    And I can drink coffee and then sleep anyway, if I do want to sleep, it does not prevent me from doing so - but I did not, I wanted to be awake.
    It personally offends me when people order milky coffees after midday but each to their own
    Not sure why.

    I have a bean to cup coffee machine at home that includes a milk steaming wand so I can make my own lattes at home and I'll happily have them in the evening.

    I'm not entirely sure what about warm milk in the evening offends you, would you object to a hot chocolate or cocoa or other hot milky drinks in the evening?
    Is 'Ovaltine' still a thing? I remember it being the 'weird milky drink' of choice in the early 80s.
    Apparently.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovaltine

    In half a century, I don't recall coming across anyone who actually drinks it.
    The old factory in Kings Langley has been converted into flats.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:

    If Olly runs the business with his dad he should own 50%. So the £3million exemption and 20% iht is for *half* the farm. So Ollie would only pay inheritance tax at 10% on anything above £6million. Olly can fuck right off with his sob story.

    https://x.com/Cordeli43872191/status/1857544362390872184

    I do wonder whether Labour should be a bit more forceful about pushing back on this.
    "We had to make some very tough choices this budget. But this wasn't one. We do think multi millionaires can pay a bit more tax and we are determined to close down tax loopholes..."
    I just think this government is a bit crap at times.

    They seem to say and act in a good way on certain things, like on the NHS Streeting seems to be saying a lot of sensible stuff and it seems to be being managed fairly well and the comms are good.

    And the way he pushed back on private school fees was forceful and worked well. I think he bought more advocates than detractors.

    So it is baffling that for this kind of thing they can't get somebody similar.

    But then I think Streeting is by far the best performer on the front bench, with a genuinely interesting story to tell.
    Agreed. I think the public are ready for politicians who actually disagree with members of the public and state what they believe in. It shows strength and makes people remember what you are for.
    When I hear advocates for this policy complaining about its reception, I hear “Why won’t those bloody Mexicans just pay for the wall?”

    Populism - policies that are simple, easy to implement, cost nothing and only harm people we don’t like.
  • rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:

    If Olly runs the business with his dad he should own 50%. So the £3million exemption and 20% iht is for *half* the farm. So Ollie would only pay inheritance tax at 10% on anything above £6million. Olly can fuck right off with his sob story.

    https://x.com/Cordeli43872191/status/1857544362390872184

    I do wonder whether Labour should be a bit more forceful about pushing back on this.
    "We had to make some very tough choices this budget. But this wasn't one. We do think multi millionaires can pay a bit more tax and we are determined to close down tax loopholes..."
    I just think this government is a bit crap at times.

    They seem to say and act in a good way on certain things, like on the NHS Streeting seems to be saying a lot of sensible stuff and it seems to be being managed fairly well and the comms are good.

    And the way he pushed back on private school fees was forceful and worked well. I think he bought more advocates than detractors.

    So it is baffling that for this kind of thing they can't get somebody similar.

    But then I think Streeting is by far the best performer on the front bench, with a genuinely interesting story to tell.
    Agreed. I think the public are ready for politicians who actually disagree with members of the public and state what they believe in. It shows strength and makes people remember what you are for.
    To fight Labour's corner for a bit though, they've made decisions and stuck by them for now. Lots of people said they don't know what they stand for. It's hard to argue that now with the policies they've put in place.

    But of course that is the issue, people suddenly don't like it when they do have policies. Hence why they were so quiet for so long.

    But still, they could defend the policies they do have a bit more.

    To be honest I am not sure why they don't start an offshore processing centre for refugees, it seems a no brainer. And then secondly they are calling in planning applications - why not make a big deal out of working for people that live in houses rather than NIMBYs?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing the Japanese are not hated even more than they are already hated across Asia

    If I was Filipino I would find it very hard to forgive them. Likewise if I was Chinese

    And they were damn lucky they got away with just two nukes

    Tulsi Gabbard might be right to caution against Japanese rearmament.
    “It’s hard to imagine that a major monthlong battle from World War II — one that devastated a large city, caused more than 100,000 civilian deaths and led to both a historic war crimes trial and a Supreme Court decision — should have escaped scrutiny until now.

    But history has somehow overlooked the catastrophic battle for Manila, capital of the Philippines, in the waning months of the war. Like the Rape of Nanking, or the siege of Stalingrad, the tragedy of Manila deserves far greater understanding and reflection today.”

    https://www.latimes.com/books/la-ca-jc-book-review-rampage-20181102-story.html

    It is like Stalingrad happened in the Pacific but everyone forgot
    Ian Toll's Pacific War Trilogy (which is quite the best history I've read in recent years) goes into quite a lot of detail about Manilla. The behavior of Japanese troops was utterly inhumane.
  • Populism - policies that are simple, easy to implement, cost nothing and only harm people we don’t like.

    I just stand by the fact that farmers shouldn't have a tax exemption. They haven't had one forever, this is a very recent thing.

    But then I think fuel duty freeze and the triple lock should both go too.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,755
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5yr22qq5q8o

    Typhoo Tea teeters on the brink of administration

    Typhoo Tea is set to appoint administrators as the 120-year-old brand's sales slump, losses widen and debts rise.

    The company has filed a notice at court "which affords the company some breathing space to explore solutions", Typhoo's chief executive Dave McNulty told the BBC.

    The firm has been trying to turn itself around for some time.

    However, it suffered a setback after trespassers damaged its former factory in Moreton, Merseyside last year.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    A presentation by Ofsted to education leaders outlining the proposals, first reported by the Financial Times, highlighted the top grade, “exemplary”, in purple, followed by “strong practice” in green, “secure” in lime, “attention needed” in yellow and the lowest rating, “causing concern”, in red.

    The 10 key areas to be graded are: curriculum, teaching, safeguarding, achievement, leadership, behaviour and values, attendance, preparation for next steps, opportunities, and inclusion and belonging.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/nov/15/schools-in-england-could-be-judged-on-scale-of-colours-in-ofsted-proposals

    Sounds like some marketing consultants have been employed.

    What the fuck?

    Spielman was mad, bad and useless.

    How could they have come up with something even more inane and divorced from reality?

    That's extraordinary.
    The demand was an end to single judgements. It was perhaps predictable that this would lead to the introduction of a multiplicity of judgements...
    It has to be a matrix, using colours.

    Perhaps they should be sent to stand in a corner, for 1 minute per year of their ages, plus 2 minutes. And think about how silly they have been. Then apologise nicely and then whole class can do some colouring in. Thoughts?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048

    Populism - policies that are simple, easy to implement, cost nothing and only harm people we don’t like.

    I just stand by the fact that farmers shouldn't have a tax exemption. They haven't had one forever, this is a very recent thing.

    But then I think fuel duty freeze and the triple lock should both go too.
    It’s the pretending that no nice people will be affected that is the populism.

    That’s one of the reasons that many people regard politicians as lower than whale shit at the bottom of the Marianas Trench.
  • Populism - policies that are simple, easy to implement, cost nothing and only harm people we don’t like.

    I just stand by the fact that farmers shouldn't have a tax exemption. They haven't had one forever, this is a very recent thing.

    But then I think fuel duty freeze and the triple lock should both go too.
    It’s the pretending that no nice people will be affected that is the populism.

    That’s one of the reasons that many people regard politicians as lower than whale shit at the bottom of the Marianas Trench.
    I don't see how this is populism though. It's just something you don't personally like?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,258

    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:

    If Olly runs the business with his dad he should own 50%. So the £3million exemption and 20% iht is for *half* the farm. So Ollie would only pay inheritance tax at 10% on anything above £6million. Olly can fuck right off with his sob story.

    https://x.com/Cordeli43872191/status/1857544362390872184

    I do wonder whether Labour should be a bit more forceful about pushing back on this.
    "We had to make some very tough choices this budget. But this wasn't one. We do think multi millionaires can pay a bit more tax and we are determined to close down tax loopholes..."
    I just think this government is a bit crap at times.

    They seem to say and act in a good way on certain things, like on the NHS Streeting seems to be saying a lot of sensible stuff and it seems to be being managed fairly well and the comms are good.

    And the way he pushed back on private school fees was forceful and worked well. I think he bought more advocates than detractors.

    So it is baffling that for this kind of thing they can't get somebody similar.

    But then I think Streeting is by far the best performer on the front bench, with a genuinely interesting story to tell.
    Agreed. I think the public are ready for politicians who actually disagree with members of the public and state what they believe in. It shows strength and makes people remember what you are for.
    When I hear advocates for this policy complaining about its reception, I hear “Why won’t those bloody Mexicans just pay for the wall?”

    Populism - policies that are simple, easy to implement, cost nothing and only harm people we don’t like.
    I don't think this policy is getting a bad reception really. I'm frustrated Labour aren't defending their own policy. This is an easy to implement, money generating policy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,923
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s amazing the Japanese are not hated even more than they are already hated across Asia

    If I was Filipino I would find it very hard to forgive them. Likewise if I was Chinese

    And they were damn lucky they got away with just two nukes

    Tulsi Gabbard might be right to caution against Japanese rearmament.
    “It’s hard to imagine that a major monthlong battle from World War II — one that devastated a large city, caused more than 100,000 civilian deaths and led to both a historic war crimes trial and a Supreme Court decision — should have escaped scrutiny until now.

    But history has somehow overlooked the catastrophic battle for Manila, capital of the Philippines, in the waning months of the war. Like the Rape of Nanking, or the siege of Stalingrad, the tragedy of Manila deserves far greater understanding and reflection today.”

    https://www.latimes.com/books/la-ca-jc-book-review-rampage-20181102-story.html

    It is like Stalingrad happened in the Pacific but everyone forgot
    Ian Toll's Pacific War Trilogy (which is quite the best history I've read in recent years) goes into quite a lot of detail about Manilla. The behavior of Japanese troops was utterly inhumane.
    And nearly half the civilian casualties caused by US artillery. MacArthur, of course.
    I think it was the biggest urban battle the U.S. ever fought ?
  • The freebies row seems to have blown over, I just had expected SKS to resign by now. Oh well.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,550
    edited November 15

    Populism - policies that are simple, easy to implement, cost nothing and only harm people we don’t like.

    I just stand by the fact that farmers shouldn't have a tax exemption. They haven't had one forever, this is a very recent thing.

    But then I think fuel duty freeze and the triple lock should both go too.
    It’s the pretending that no nice people will be affected that is the populism.

    That’s one of the reasons that many people regard politicians as lower than whale shit at the bottom of the Marianas Trench.
    I am sure lots of very nice farmers will be impacted, I know some personally who will.

    But that doesn't mean they shouldn't have to pay IHT.

    I also have less sympathy for the loud ones who are very wealthy and keep piping up. If some more that weren't did, they would get a better traction, I expect. It's like the private schools exemption, the people that we hear shouting about it are already wealthy. The squeezed people I'd like to hear about more but they never get heard, it's just very rich people having to pay a bit more tax.

    I try to be nice, should I be exempt too?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048

    Populism - policies that are simple, easy to implement, cost nothing and only harm people we don’t like.

    I just stand by the fact that farmers shouldn't have a tax exemption. They haven't had one forever, this is a very recent thing.

    But then I think fuel duty freeze and the triple lock should both go too.
    It’s the pretending that no nice people will be affected that is the populism.

    That’s one of the reasons that many people regard politicians as lower than whale shit at the bottom of the Marianas Trench.
    I don't see how this is populism though. It's just something you don't personally like?
    Haven’t you noticed the fun bit of

    1) no farmers will be harmed, they can just tax plan. And not pay any tax!
    2) the evil tax avoiders will have to pay tax.

    I would define populist policies as

    1) Simple, easy. Obvious.
    2) Free, or raise tons of money painlessly.
    3) No side effects. To anyone we like, that is.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,014
    edited 12:14AM
    Good early morning everyone. I've been out for the evening, then a little asleep :smile: .

    This is a potentially important detail in the USA prosecutions of Trump accomplices around the attempted manipulation of the 2020 Election.

    The Supreme Court has declined to hear Mark Meadows' (Trump Chief of Staff during 2016-2020 Presidency) appeal of a state court ruling in Georgia (DA: Fani Willis) for subverting the 2020 election cannot be not transferrable to Federal Court on the basis of his claim that in his position he was a Federal Officer because he did his interference under the authority of the President.

    That means that the top level legal precedent, absent further Supreme Court intervention, is now that these cases be not transferred according to the ruling of the Georgia Supreme Court. That will be what applies to the others.

    That therefore means, if it sticks, that this cannot be pardoned by Mr Trump or a replacement President he controls.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/12/politics/mark-meadows-supreme-court/index.html
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9PvrSSVfNg&t=951s
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,664
    edited 12:17AM

    Populism - policies that are simple, easy to implement, cost nothing and only harm people we don’t like.

    I just stand by the fact that farmers shouldn't have a tax exemption. They haven't had one forever, this is a very recent thing.

    But then I think fuel duty freeze and the triple lock should both go too.
    It’s the pretending that no nice people will be affected that is the populism.

    That’s one of the reasons that many people regard politicians as lower than whale shit at the bottom of the Marianas Trench.
    I am sure lots of very nice farmers will be impacted, I know some personally who will.

    But that doesn't mean they shouldn't have to pay IHT.

    I also have less sympathy for the loud ones who are very wealthy and keep piping up. If some more that weren't did, they would get a better traction, I expect. It's like the private schools exemption, the people that we hear shouting about it are already wealthy. The squeezed people I'd like to hear about more but they never get heard, it's just very rich people having to pay a bit more tax.

    I try to be nice, should I be exempt too?
    Just the usual class war from Labour, as against pensioners, private school parents and small businesses too. If the farmers next Tuesday cause serious disruption in central London and pour slurry all over Downing Street and Whitehall Starmer and Reeves have nobody to blame but themselves
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,664
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Kemi Badenoch says Keir Starmer is 'cowardly'

    "I don’t think he can mansplain anything to me... He is also quite cowardly, because he relies on his back benches to attack me when I can’t respond, because I can only speak when I am questioning him."

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1857527253518659774

    She shouldn’t be whining. This worries me

    Starmer is a feeble communicator with no charm and a narrow mind. And he is defending an already dire government. She should be able to beat the crap out of him

    Shape up, Kemi
    Opposition is a very different game to government. You don't have actions to defend, but everything else about it is much harder.

    Not many ex-ministers really learn to play the new rules well. None of the Labour 2010 crew did, really. Hague did a bit, but not enough for it to do him any good. Maggie did... in the end. And she had been around the block already in Parliamentary terms. Kemi B has known nothing but government.
    It’s far too early to write her off

    But my fear was and is that she is a lightweight globalist with some mildly anti woke ideas which tickle Tory members. Plus she is pretty and black which seems like fun…. But isn’t enough by itself to put it mildly

    In there anything else to Kemi?

    Let’s hope she grows into the role

    Also, to be fair to Tories the choice was PITIFUL

    Personally I’d have gone for Priti Patel or Suella but I accept my tastes are quirky
    Just let Kemi take middle class Leavers and Farage take working class hard Leavers and the LDs and Greens increasingly take Remainers and squeeze the life out of Starmer Labour
Sign In or Register to comment.