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There is bad news for the forces of antidisestablishmentarianism – politicalbetting.com
There is bad news for the forces of antidisestablishmentarianism – politicalbetting.com
Is it time to disestablish the Church of England? By 50% to 21%, Britons say it isShould separate: 50% (+13 from 1957, Gallup)Connection should continue: 21% (-16)Survey conducted before calls for Justin Welby to resignhttps://t.co/NzHElOvj5H pic.twitter.com/PqdDKUr8zy
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Q: antidisestablishmentarianism is a very long word, how do you spell it?
A: IT
We had to make our own fun in the Seventies.
There is no state funding specific to the CoE.
However, it isn't going to happen for two reasons.
1) If 21% of people want to keep it, those of that number who feel strongly - such that it may affect their vote - will be in the millions. Those numbers swing elections. It is very unlikely that anyone's vote will be switched on rather than off by a promise to disestablish. It isn't important enough to them
2) It's constitutionally complicated to the extent that it would tie constitutional admin up for quite a time, so like abolishing the monarchy it will never be the right time.
One more point: there is some evidence that members of minority religions quite like having religion established in England.
Something to think about.
And I don't get, even with disestablishment, why the C of E couldn't continue to run schools.
For me, the historical and heritage reasons for its inclusion in our constitution are enough for me even though CoE Bishops almost always side with the centre-left/left side of the argument.
It's part of the fabric of our nation, as you say.
The sheep shaggers have become even worse since England won the world cup in 2003, but why they are so abusive to me is a mystery.
Whether the state should be funding religious schools when they don't cooperate with the local authority trying to comply with their legal obligations is another matter - our local CofE primary refused to increase their intake for the bulge years 10 years ago despite having ample space and the largest site of all the local primary schools, most, if not all, the LA controlled schools increased intake by an extra form and the council had to have an expensive legal fight with rabid opponents to one school expansion.
And you would be most welcome here in North Wales
And red squirrels in the area
Triouble is, it's unfair to the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish as a matter of principle. Edit: never mind the non-Anglicans in England. Not exactly where you'd begin today, as opposed to a psychopathic and sex-mad king 500 years or so ago.
The church near my house had an Anglican bishop processing sunwise around it with the new vicar a few years ago, and very nice it looked. But it's a disestablished church up here in Scotland ... and there's not even an established Presbyterian Kirk here, not for a century or so.
When we have words like Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitänswitwe (the widow of a captain of the Danube Steam Boat Company) in our thread headers - only then can we truly preen ourselves in this respect.
Take that as a challenge btw - I'm sure there's a political betting aspect to the Danube Steam Boat Company in the upcoming Austrian elections somewhere.
They read almost like questions written for the status of 20 or 30 years ago.
For example:
Would you would support or oppose each of the following? %
Church of England bishops no longer being given seats in the House of Lords
- OK Q, if they mean ex-officio.
The UK government no longer having any influence over the appointment of senior posts in the Church of England, including bishops
- The UK Government has had no influence over the appointment of senior posts in the CofE since 2007.
The Church of England no longer receiving State funding
- The CofE receives no State funding as Church of England. It does receive charitable relief on donations, heritage building grants etc, just as do other similar organisations.
Governance of existing Church of England schools passing to local councils instead
- OK Question, however CofE schools are in the process of conversion to Academies (1000 already). It is not clear why these are singled out from other academies.
The UK monarch no longer being head of the Church of England
- OK question.
The Church of England no longer being required to practice same sex marriages
- The Church of England is NOT required to practice same sex marriages. Assuming the mangled English actually means perform the ceremonies, rather than have conjugal relations.
Church of England marriages counting only as a religious marriages and requiring a further civil marriage in order to be legally married (for future marriages only, existing Church of England marriages would still be legally binding)
- Many buildings can be used to register marriages, including churches, synagogues and mosques, and can also aiui provide an Authorised Person as Registrar.
They really haven't much of a clue imo.
I also remember that the longest word in Turkish means "Are you not of that group of people that we were said to be unable to Czechoslovakianise?'
If you can get that into a thread header I'll applaud.
Even for those who are Anglicans, they've had 153 years to make their peace with it as the Church of Ireland was disestablished in 1871!
Is probably not what the lumpen proletariat wants.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKBJoj4XyFc
If they are thrown out from their pre-eminent role in the British state, and evicted from the Lords etc, then I think we need to replace their frocky presence with a strong secular principle as the French have. Mostly though I'd just leave matters alone, although a reduction in the free Lordships seems wise.
What I’m hearing privately from a few key GOP senators: yes, they’d prefer to not have a messy fight over Gaetz. Not their favorite. But they also don’t have a lot of energy for pushing back. Trump runs the show, they say. If Gaetz can reassure them, they’re open to backing him.
https://x.com/costareports/status/1857047122010398892
"If we surrender now, it will be easier to fight in the future" is so deluded, I'm pretty sure they don't believe their own words.
https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1856712865123590231
Yet one can't just turn up at the local synagogue/Religious Society of Friends meeting/Free Church of Scotland kirk/whatever and demand to be married if one has no track record in the relevant denomination.
https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/TheTimes_ChurchOfEngland_230130_W.pdf
On the further details in the poll most MPs have already voted to keep Bishops in the Lords and given they rejected the LD amendment for an elected upper house we should continue to keep faith representatives in the fully appointed upper house. The C of E of course receives next to no state funding and arguably should receive more given it has a large percentage of the most historic grade listed buildings in the nation maintained by it. The French government for example gives the RC church funds to maintain its historic churches and cathedrals in France.
Less than half support moving governance of C of E schools to the state either, no wonder given C of E schools tend to get better results than the national average.
Very interesting more voters support the King remaining head of the C of E than not which rather defeats the earlier support for disestablishment anyway given the original reason the C of E was created was so the national church was headed by the King not the Pope at the Reformation.
Note too when the practical consequences of C of E marriages no longer being valid in law are considered by a vast 29% margin voters oppose that too. So again they wish to uphold one of the key principles of having an established church.
So the data largely refutes the headline once you delve into it
Catholicism it is; in Presbyterianism it isn't, and needless to say in the Church of England it certainly is and certainly isn't and certainly might be.
This is Timothy Snyder’s “obeying in advance”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tocssf3w80
Two types of marriage take place in places of worship or registered buildings for a denomination. A 'religious marriage' is in the eyes of the religion. A 'civil marriage' is in the eyes of the State. The State is not really interested in the religious marriage.
Traditionally, an Anglican Officiant (normally Vicar) in a CofE Church could conduct the religious marriage, and act as legally recognised Registrar for the purposes of registering the civil marriage.
Since 2021, a Place of Worship or Registered Building can provide an Authorised Person (or Additional Authorised People if there are >1) appointed by the building's trustees, who may Register the civil marriage (in my terms above) at the place, and send the forms to the Register Office afterwards.
That means afaics that a civil marriage can be contracted in other places of worship as happens in a CofE church, by a parallel and similar process. The religious wedding, of interest to the religion, is a different thing done at the same time.
Link: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/a-guide-for-authorised-persons
(TBH it seems a little too varied and complicated, and in need of some simplifying.)
Then we can happily return to the floccinaucinihilipilification of the Church of England.
The only (and quite compelling) argument is that it is what it is, does no-one harm, and may do some good, so leave it alone.
We had two very conservative trustees who refused to allow me to change the charitable purpose because that was against the founder’s wishes
But I think we should have more established institutions with seats in the Lords. The established supermarket (might I hazard Sainsburys?). The established pub chain. The established first class county cricket team. The established takeaway delivery app. The established big-4 accountancy firm.
They mostly gave up church on Sundays, to get a whole day of clean air and natural beauty in the countryside. The rural folk tried to stop them
'Ed Miliband has said that he will ban new coalmines in Britain, sounding the final death knell for a proposed site in Cumbria.
The energy secretary, who was in Baku this week for the Cop29 UN climate change conference, said he was sending a “clear signal” to the world that coalmining had no long-term future in the UK.
The government will use primary legislation to restrict future licensing of all new coalmines, probably by amending the Coal Industry Act of 1994.'
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/environment/article/britain-to-ban-all-new-coalmines-in-signal-to-the-world-l0b3b5cqf
About 15 years ago they ran a noisy campaign about that, and some started issuing Debaptism Certificates.
https://ffrf.org/uploads/timely/De-baptismCertificateFFRF.pdf
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7941817.stm
The other thing that gets them equally excited is the Voluntary Church Rate, under the Parochial Church Councils (Powers) Measure 1956.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parochial_Church_Councils_(Powers)_Measure_1956
We reach Net Zero by reducing demand/consumption, not by offshoring production.
"The stone age didn't end because of a shortage of stones", as the saying goes.