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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Budget betting : How long? What will he say? What colour ti

SystemSystem Posts: 11,704
edited March 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Budget betting : How long? What will he say? What colour tie? How many sips of water? etc

SportingIndex http://t.co/U2fOqryMuA budget spread betting pic.twitter.com/DvU3YWbYIi

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  • Options
    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    How long: 47 minutes 13 seconds
    What will he say: globule
    What colour tie: yellow
    How many sips of water: 68,537
  • Options
    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Abenomics
    Keynes
    Post Neo-Classical Endogenous Growth Theory
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    The BBC said that there will be a public competition to decide what goes on the pound coin. As PBers we should put our differences aside and get Basil on there.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Is he allowed to bet on himself ? If he is caught, does he have to sit in front of a select committee answering questions about bringing politics into disrepute.

    That would have an easy answer.
  • Options
    Oliver_PBOliver_PB Posts: 397
    Osborne wore a blue tie in 2010, 2012 and 2013 and purple in 2011. 10/11 for blue seems like good value.
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    Oliver_PB said:

    Osborne wore a blue tie in 2010, 2012 and 2013 and purple in 2011. 10/11 for blue seems like good value.

    I predict George will wear this tie:

    http://bit.ly/1l2qX2y

    If he is being very witty he may wear this:

    http://bit.ly/1fGwhR0

    I am certain he will not be wearing this:

    http://bit.ly/1j4eV4b
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    What about a bolo tie?
    I believe they're popular with cowboys.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    I see George is introducing a new Pound. Is that because Eck is 'keeping' the old one?
  • Options
    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    One of these days, a Chancellor (or party leader, or whoever) will read an article like this on PB and will adjust the text of his (or her) speech in order to provide a nice profit for the people who have bet on the unlikely options. All he has to do is read out all of the phrases on the 50/1 list, and the whole betting industry will be kerfufflificated.
  • Options
    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    Scott_P said:

    I see George is introducing a new Pound. Is that because Eck is 'keeping' the old one?

    If Yes is a vote for Eck then No is a vote for Dave.

    Let's see how that genius strategy works out for the Cyberbritnats.

  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    Scott_P said:

    I see George is introducing a new Pound. Is that because Eck is 'keeping' the old one?

    If Yes is a vote for Eck then No is a vote for Dave.

    Let's see how that genius strategy works out for the Cyberbritnats.

    Cyberbritnats ?
  • Options
    Oliver_PBOliver_PB Posts: 397
    edited March 2014
    On the Scottish independence issue, after a long period of not really caring either way, I am now leaning in favour. I think it would be pretty entertaining, having enjoyed the squabbling over a currency union that obviously never going to happen no matter how much the SNP insists it will.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,391
    Work is in serious danger of interfering with budget watching today. Very frustrating but I still predict a boring budget and that is not just sour grapes.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Is it not rather infradig to wear a tie to which you are not entitled?

    Blue looks reasonable on WH, as does greater than 2.5 sips at 4/7. Osborne is a sipper I believe.

    Also tempted by a cut in basic rate tax at WH; that could flatfoot Miliband nicely, and perhaps be paid for by reducing the threshold for higher rate tax.
    AveryLP said:

    Oliver_PB said:

    Osborne wore a blue tie in 2010, 2012 and 2013 and purple in 2011. 10/11 for blue seems like good value.

    I predict George will wear this tie:

    http://bit.ly/1l2qX2y

    If he is being very witty he may wear this:

    http://bit.ly/1fGwhR0

    I am certain he will not be wearing this:

    http://bit.ly/1j4eV4b
  • Options
    LTEP is clear value at 4/5
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,391

    LTEP is clear value at 4/5

    Agreed. Almost as certain as "tax" I would say.

  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Good morning, everyone.

    What time does Ozzy stand up today?
  • Options
    IcarusIcarus Posts: 911
    12.30
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,391
    Someone has bet £25K on the tories getting the most seats at the next election: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/10706601/Budget-2014-a-five-figure-betting-event.html

    From the south east. Mr Nabavi? He would usually want better odds.
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    AveryLP said:

    Oliver_PB said:

    Osborne wore a blue tie in 2010, 2012 and 2013 and purple in 2011. 10/11 for blue seems like good value.

    I predict George will wear this tie:

    http://bit.ly/1l2qX2y

    If he is being very witty he may wear this:

    http://bit.ly/1fGwhR0

    I am certain he will not be wearing this:

    http://bit.ly/1j4eV4b
    I'm assuming one of those is Eton.

    44 pounds for a tie? Haway you doyle
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    How long is into tree falling in the forest territory.

    HWF will feature many many times.

    Tie: purple.
  • Options
    I don't know about the budget, but how about this:

    %age of PB.com articles in the next month about Scottish referendum: under 10
    %age of comments on PB.com in the next month relating to Scottish referendum: 80+

    Will this be the most boring year of PB.com comments we have ever had?
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited March 2014
    Scott_P said:

    I see George is introducing a new Pound. Is that because Eck is 'keeping' the old one?

    The new pound coin has 12 sides - one for every time Labour has pledged to spend it..
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Oliver_PB said:

    On the Scottish independence issue, after a long period of not really caring either way, I am now leaning in favour. I think it would be pretty entertaining, having enjoyed the squabbling over a currency union that obviously never going to happen no matter how much the SNP insists it will.

    Yes, I'm usually in favour of whatever option is more politically interesting.
    There is a double whammy in that we could both see the development of politics post independence AND be rid of these tiresome fraught squabbles on the subject of the referendum.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    Will this be the most boring year of PB.com comments we have ever had?

    We could talk about the merits of AV
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Scott_P said:


    Will this be the most boring year of PB.com comments we have ever had?

    We could talk about the merits of AV
    AV was better than this
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,063
    Freggles said:

    Oliver_PB said:

    On the Scottish independence issue, after a long period of not really caring either way, I am now leaning in favour. I think it would be pretty entertaining, having enjoyed the squabbling over a currency union that obviously never going to happen no matter how much the SNP insists it will.

    Yes, I'm usually in favour of whatever option is more politically interesting.
    There is a double whammy in that we could both see the development of politics post independence AND be rid of these tiresome fraught squabbles on the subject of the referendum.
    If Scots do vote YES, will Scots be allowed to post here? I suppose the answer has to be yes because, for example, Americans do.
    But will an independent Scotland’s elections be as interesting for betting purposes (or any other) as US Presidential elections?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,391
    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.

    Can his boss do any better today? This is going to be the budget in this Parliament with the most good macroeconomic news. We will no doubt have references to the squeezed middle, falling real wages, wasted years etc etc but it will not be easy for Ed to sound like he has much constructive to say or an alternative vision going forward.

    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    Freggles said:

    Oliver_PB said:

    On the Scottish independence issue, after a long period of not really caring either way, I am now leaning in favour. I think it would be pretty entertaining, having enjoyed the squabbling over a currency union that obviously never going to happen no matter how much the SNP insists it will.

    Yes, I'm usually in favour of whatever option is more politically interesting.
    There is a double whammy in that we could both see the development of politics post independence AND be rid of these tiresome fraught squabbles on the subject of the referendum.
    If Scots do vote YES, will Scots be allowed to post here? I suppose the answer has to be yes because, for example, Americans do.
    But will an independent Scotland’s elections be as interesting for betting purposes (or any other) as US Presidential elections?
    No.

    Because like the BBC Mike will block access to PB north of the border.
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Freggles said:

    Oliver_PB said:

    On the Scottish independence issue, after a long period of not really caring either way, I am now leaning in favour. I think it would be pretty entertaining, having enjoyed the squabbling over a currency union that obviously never going to happen no matter how much the SNP insists it will.

    Yes, I'm usually in favour of whatever option is more politically interesting.
    There is a double whammy in that we could both see the development of politics post independence AND be rid of these tiresome fraught squabbles on the subject of the referendum.
    If Scots do vote YES, will Scots be allowed to post here? I suppose the answer has to be yes because, for example, Americans do.
    But will an independent Scotland’s elections be as interesting for betting purposes (or any other) as US Presidential elections?
    Hence the need for a Scottish PB independence referendum. But yes there will still be Scottish threads and posters, though I'm hoping the intense bickering will be gone. Hope springs eternal
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Scott_P said:

    I see George is introducing a new Pound. Is that because Eck is 'keeping' the old one?

    That's one of your better efforts. It's almost funny.
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    DavidL said:

    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.

    Can his boss do any better today? This is going to be the budget in this Parliament with the most good macroeconomic news. We will no doubt have references to the squeezed middle, falling real wages, wasted years etc etc but it will not be easy for Ed to sound like he has much constructive to say or an alternative vision going forward.

    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    BobaFett said:



    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"

    I reckon that's Thatcher's fault.
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Icarus said:

    12.30

    Thanks
  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited March 2014
    Charles said:

    BobaFett said:



    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"

    I reckon that's Thatcher's fault.
    I personally think Lord Liverpool has much to answer for too.
  • Options
    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Morning all and it is quite remarkable how little of the impending budget appears to have leaked for once. Interesting the new pound coin is being introduced from 2017 which would be after Scottish independence. Maybe George knows something we don't!
  • Options
    TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    edited March 2014
    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.

    Can his boss do any better today? This is going to be the budget in this Parliament with the most good macroeconomic news. We will no doubt have references to the squeezed middle, falling real wages, wasted years etc etc but it will not be easy for Ed to sound like he has much constructive to say or an alternative vision going forward.

    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    Have a word with yerself, mate. PM Milliband and COE Balls will still be blaming Cameron and co in 2019. Hell, your gang still try and pin the blame on Thatcher!
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Morning all and it is quite remarkable how little of the impending budget appears to have leaked for once. Interesting the new pound coin is being introduced from 2017 which would be after Scottish independence. Maybe George knows something we don't!

    Well given that 4% of pound coins are fake, perhaps we could give them all to Salmond?
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,894
    Morning all :)

    The response to the Budget is probably the toughest Parliamentary test for any LOTO as there's little or no possible preparation and it's one of those curiosities that the response is from the LOTO than the Shadow Chancellor.

    It is a test of the working relationship between the Shadow Chancellor and his/her Leader that they have to formulate a response while the speech is still being made.

    As someone else has remarked, Osborne is the archetypal political Chancellor and another aspect of the Budget is how to close down the response. I suspect Osborne's primary audience is behind him but he's also trying to trap those in front of him as well.
  • Options
    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    DavidL said:

    Someone has bet £25K on the tories getting the most seats at the next election: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/10706601/Budget-2014-a-five-figure-betting-event.html

    From the south east. Mr Nabavi? He would usually want better odds.

    Was it not one D Miliband, resident of NYC?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,391
    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.

    Can his boss do any better today? This is going to be the budget in this Parliament with the most good macroeconomic news. We will no doubt have references to the squeezed middle, falling real wages, wasted years etc etc but it will not be easy for Ed to sound like he has much constructive to say or an alternative vision going forward.

    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    You are clearly right that there is a law of diminishing returns here although the polling on responsibility for the cuts has been surprisingly favourable to the Coalition.

    What I think Osborne will seek to do today is show that he has cut the structural deficit in half but half remains so that there is a compelling need for further cuts in public spending into the next Parliament. Whether that is ultimately right or wrong (I think it is right myself) it is exactly the territory that the tories will want to fight the next election on and Osborne will be doing his best to set this up today.

  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    Tony Benn to lie in state?

    *checks date*

    wtf?
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.

    Can his boss do any better today? This is going to be the budget in this Parliament with the most good macroeconomic news. We will no doubt have references to the squeezed middle, falling real wages, wasted years etc etc but it will not be easy for Ed to sound like he has much constructive to say or an alternative vision going forward.

    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    You are clearly right that there is a law of diminishing returns here although the polling on responsibility for the cuts has been surprisingly favourable to the Coalition.

    What I think Osborne will seek to do today is show that he has cut the structural deficit in half but half remains so that there is a compelling need for further cuts in public spending into the next Parliament. Whether that is ultimately right or wrong (I think it is right myself) it is exactly the territory that the tories will want to fight the next election on and Osborne will be doing his best to set this up today.

    It needs to be done with care, to avoid giving hostages to fortune. One way might be to announce a once-off poll tax of say £50k with exemptions for those who are either members of either Coalition party or who can demonstrate that they have opposed the march of socialism, perhaps by sacking left-wing staff or the content of their posts on sites such as this.

  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,976
    The surefire bet is that the Chancellor will seek to hammer welfare recipients (except pensioners, of course) in order to put Labour on the spot. That he is doing this to some of the most vulnerable people in the country is not really the issue. If it makes Ed Balls uncomfortable, it's worth it.
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    I suspect the LOTO's and SCOE's reply to the Budget has already been written and is unlikely to be altered as neither of them ever listen to the Chancellor anyway. One of Ed's failings is that he can't think on his feet.

    Not that it matters anyway ... it's the media response that's important.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,976

    Morning all and it is quite remarkable how little of the impending budget appears to have leaked for once. Interesting the new pound coin is being introduced from 2017 which would be after Scottish independence. Maybe George knows something we don't!

    Scotland is unlikely to be independent by 2017. Far too much to sort out for that to happen.

  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    OT

    Russia has told the US that Western sanctions over the Crimea dispute are unacceptable, and has threatened "consequences".

    The oil price has dropped into the $106 region. What will it rise to if Putin turns down the gas flow a bit (colder weekend coming up), just to illustrate what his consequences might be. Rememeber the mind and instincts of the ex-KGB man.

    Is there any betting about Putin's next action/s. If he does act in this way, the budget debate (and forecasts) is almost irrelevant.
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    Tony Benn to lie in state?

    *checks date*

    wtf?

    I could just about understand it happening for Thatcher, even though I didn't really agree with it, but she was PM, iconic, blah, blah, blah. What the flying feckity doodah has Tony Benn done for the country, really?
    Bercow says he requested it for Benn's "service to the country", if that's the criteria, most full career armed forces, clergy, local shopkeepers, police, fireys, nurses, hell, even the Beast of Bolsover ought to be in with a shout of it.
    Modern politicians are a sick joke, it's all a gaddamn vanity project. They need a serious reality check.

  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    OT but interesting and shows the effect of EU blanket 'laws' on individual country circumstances.

    "The Spanish government’s continuing austerity measures are having an adverse effect on the country’s pig farmers, who have taken to extremes to protest at the closure of cogeneration plants, which had been benefiting the farming community.

    Last month Madrid announced planned cuts to energy subsidies, which has seen the closure of all but one of the country’s 29 government subsidised cogeneration power plants and pushed farmers to the brink of bankruptcy.

    The Wall Street Journal reports that one local farmer released a 2,000-gallon spray of pig urine and feces into a city fountain to protest the measures. Thousands of other farmers have for some years been using the plants, which used the heat from generating electricity to turn pig waste into dried fertilizer pellets.

    The farmers are further boxed in as European regulations on groundwater cleanliness limit the volume of pig waste a farmer can dump on each acre of agricultural land. But as a result many farmers will lose out due to having to either reduce their herds or paying to ship the waste farther afield .

    Under the banner of the National Association of Pig Livestock Producers on Tuesday, about 1,000 pig farmers and treatment-plant workers wearing pig masks took their complaints to the source, dumping hundreds of bottles of foul waste in front of the Energy Ministry in Madrid.

    Prior to the plants existence, Spanish pig farmers used to dispose of their animals' urine and faeces by applying them as fertilizer to nearby fields. After the EU imposed limits on this practice, the Spanish government decided to subsidize power plants that also processed pig waste.

    Such plants burn natural gas to generate electricity and use the heat that otherwise would go to waste to dry the excrement, which then gets compressed into lightweight pellets and sold as fertilizer. Such cogeneration plants received more than €300 million in subsidies in 2012, according to the Association for the Environmental Treatment of Pig Waste."

    http://www.cospp.com/articles/2014/03/spanish-farmers-kicking-up-a-stink-over-government-closures.html
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,976
    CD13 said:

    I suspect the LOTO's and SCOE's reply to the Budget has already been written and is unlikely to be altered as neither of them ever listen to the Chancellor anyway. One of Ed's failings is that he can't think on his feet.

    Not that it matters anyway ... it's the media response that's important.

    When he was LOTO Cameron completely missed Brown's 10 pence tax balls up. It was left to Clegg to point that out, having been passed a note by Cable. Dave's shadow chancellor can't have been paying much attention or maybe didn't understand.

  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.

    Can his boss do any better today? This is going to be the budget in this Parliament with the most good macroeconomic news. We will no doubt have references to the squeezed middle, falling real wages, wasted years etc etc but it will not be easy for Ed to sound like he has much constructive to say or an alternative vision going forward.

    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    Have a word with yerself, mate. PM Milliband and COE Balls will still be blaming Cameron and co in 2019. Hell, your gang still try and pin the blame on Thatcher!
    Some Labourites do - they are wrong to do so...
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,391
    edited March 2014

    DavidL said:

    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    You are clearly right that there is a law of diminishing returns here although the polling on responsibility for the cuts has been surprisingly favourable to the Coalition.

    What I think Osborne will seek to do today is show that he has cut the structural deficit in half but half remains so that there is a compelling need for further cuts in public spending into the next Parliament. Whether that is ultimately right or wrong (I think it is right myself) it is exactly the territory that the tories will want to fight the next election on and Osborne will be doing his best to set this up today.

    It needs to be done with care, to avoid giving hostages to fortune. One way might be to announce a once-off poll tax of say £50k with exemptions for those who are either members of either Coalition party or who can demonstrate that they have opposed the march of socialism, perhaps by sacking left-wing staff or the content of their posts on sites such as this.

    Well Southam certainly seems to think that there might be tax advantages in supporting the burning of the poor. It would be nice to think that my time here was not entirely wasted.

    I just think you will find that only lefties tend to show that level of ruthlessness and focus on those they dislike. The banker's bonus tax being an obvious example.
  • Options
    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.

    Can his boss do any better today? This is going to be the budget in this Parliament with the most good macroeconomic news. We will no doubt have references to the squeezed middle, falling real wages, wasted years etc etc but it will not be easy for Ed to sound like he has much constructive to say or an alternative vision going forward.

    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    Have a word with yerself, mate. PM Milliband and COE Balls will still be blaming Cameron and co in 2019. Hell, your gang still try and pin the blame on Thatcher!
    Some Labourites do - they are wrong to do so...
    What about Milliband and Balls in 2019, will they still be blaming Cameron and Osborne?

  • Options
    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,438
    Anyone interested in the EU elections should follow www.pollwatch2014.eu looking at the expected balance in the forthcomming EU parliament.

    This is important as it could well affect who will be the next commission president. Juncker for the EPP (Christian Democrats et al) or Schulz for the Socialists?

    Voting Tory will not affect this battle, as the ECR have not put up a candidate.
  • Options
    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    The surefire bet is that the Chancellor will seek to hammer welfare recipients (except pensioners, of course) in order to put Labour on the spot. That he is doing this to some of the most vulnerable people in the country is not really the issue. If it makes Ed Balls uncomfortable, it's worth it.


    Its OK, Labour are already ahead of the Tories on hammering benefit recipients

    "Labour will be tougher than the Tories when it comes to slashing the benefits bill, Rachel Reeves, the new shadow work and pensions secretary, has insisted in her first interview since winning promotion"

    http://www.onenewspage.co.uk/n/Politics/74w2qut9h/Labour-will-be-tougher-than-Tories-on-benefits.htm

  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    SO,

    That's the problem with having innumerate politicians in the the top ranks of modern parties (and I include PPE graduates). They ought to restrict COEs and their shadows to those who can manage add-ups and take-aways without their lips moving.

    In the case of Brown, I'd have expected a senior civil servant to lead him away by the elbow and show him a picture. Perhaps they did and perhaps he just ignored it.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,976
    JonathanD said:

    The surefire bet is that the Chancellor will seek to hammer welfare recipients (except pensioners, of course) in order to put Labour on the spot. That he is doing this to some of the most vulnerable people in the country is not really the issue. If it makes Ed Balls uncomfortable, it's worth it.


    Its OK, Labour are already ahead of the Tories on hammering benefit recipients

    "Labour will be tougher than the Tories when it comes to slashing the benefits bill, Rachel Reeves, the new shadow work and pensions secretary, has insisted in her first interview since winning promotion"

    http://www.onenewspage.co.uk/n/Politics/74w2qut9h/Labour-will-be-tougher-than-Tories-on-benefits.htm

    You can, of course, be tough on the benefits bill without setting arbitrary caps that will inevitably hurt incredibly vulnerable people. But doing it that way makes it less easy to put Labour on the back foot so it is far less appealing to the Chancellor.

  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,976
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    You are clearly right that there is a law of diminishing returns here although the polling on responsibility for the cuts has been surprisingly favourable to the Coalition.

    What I think Osborne will seek to do today is show that he has cut the structural deficit in half but half remains so that there is a compelling need for further cuts in public spending into the next Parliament. Whether that is ultimately right or wrong (I think it is right myself) it is exactly the territory that the tories will want to fight the next election on and Osborne will be doing his best to set this up today.

    It needs to be done with care, to avoid giving hostages to fortune. One way might be to announce a once-off poll tax of say £50k with exemptions for those who are either members of either Coalition party or who can demonstrate that they have opposed the march of socialism, perhaps by sacking left-wing staff or the content of their posts on sites such as this.

    Well Southam certainly seems to think that there might be tax advantages in supporting the burning of the poor. It would be nice to think that my time here was not entirely wasted.

    I just think you will find that only lefties tend to show that level of ruthlessness and focus on those they dislike. The banker's bonus tax being an obvious example.

    I am pleased that you at least have the grace to admit that Tories dislike people on benefits!

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,072
    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.

    Can his boss do any better today? This is going to be the budget in this Parliament with the most good macroeconomic news. We will no doubt have references to the squeezed middle, falling real wages, wasted years etc etc but it will not be easy for Ed to sound like he has much constructive to say or an alternative vision going forward.

    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    Yes and no. There are some things that a government can tackle directly and more or less immediately they get in power. There are other things for which there is a procedural, legal or economic lag.

    It can take time and considerable effort to change a country's course. Blaming this government for not doing it in four years, when the previous government did not manage it in 13 (and in some cases did not even try) can also appear ridiculous.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,391

    Anyone interested in the EU elections should follow www.pollwatch2014.eu looking at the expected balance in the forthcomming EU parliament.

    This is important as it could well affect who will be the next commission president. Juncker for the EPP (Christian Democrats et al) or Schulz for the Socialists?

    Voting Tory will not affect this battle, as the ECR have not put up a candidate.

    I think they will inevitably vote for the EPP candidate. UKIP will probably not turn up again so if you don't want a socialist in charge.....

  • Options
    SchardsSchards Posts: 210
    On Topic - I like the look of "recovery" at 10/1 on the Paddy Power first cliche market. Osborne tends to start his speech "this is a budget to ........." which would suggest economy, growth, or recovery as the winner, of which recovery is the best price.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Sky: two female relatives of the MH370 passengers manhandled from press conference and "thrown into the street"...
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    l
    Freggles said:

    As PBers we should put our differences aside and get Basil on there.

    I must have missed the joke - Who's Basil pls?
  • Options
    I think one thing is for sure - Osborne will have road tested the political impact of this budget to death.

    The 'omnishambles' budget was actually quite a good budget from the purely technical / financial / economic point of view. But it was a PR disaster. The 'pastie tax' angle while financially trivial was pure political poison.

    I'm 100% certain that every tiny measure will have been scrutinised for the 'how can Labour hurt us with this' challenge. So....I'm expecting something that is broadly going to be hard to criticise and will for the most part get good press.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    Patrick said:

    I think one thing is for sure - Osborne will have road tested the political impact of this budget to death.

    The 'omnishambles' budget was actually quite a good budget from the purely technical / financial / economic point of view. But it was a PR disaster. The 'pastie tax' angle while financially trivial was pure political poison.

    I'm 100% certain that every tiny measure will have been scrutinised for the 'how can Labour hurt us with this' challenge. So....I'm expecting something that is broadly going to be hard to criticise and will for the most part get good press.

    God bless you for thinking that they would be self-aware enough to know. Everything indeed from the pasty tax to the wrong type of burger shows they simply don't have that man-on-the-Barnsley-omnibus nous.

    I hope you are right but fear you are wrong.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    DavidL said:

    Anyone interested in the EU elections should follow www.pollwatch2014.eu looking at the expected balance in the forthcomming EU parliament.

    This is important as it could well affect who will be the next commission president. Juncker for the EPP (Christian Democrats et al) or Schulz for the Socialists?

    Voting Tory will not affect this battle, as the ECR have not put up a candidate.

    I think they will inevitably vote for the EPP candidate. UKIP will probably not turn up again so if you don't want a socialist in charge.....

    It's actually a good question, worth asking your candidates. The EPP candidate is likely to be more conservative but also more pro-integration.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    DavidL said:

    Anyone interested in the EU elections should follow www.pollwatch2014.eu looking at the expected balance in the forthcomming EU parliament.

    This is important as it could well affect who will be the next commission president. Juncker for the EPP (Christian Democrats et al) or Schulz for the Socialists?

    Voting Tory will not affect this battle, as the ECR have not put up a candidate.

    I think they will inevitably vote for the EPP candidate. UKIP will probably not turn up again so if you don't want a socialist in charge.....

    It's actually a good question, worth asking your candidates. The EPP candidate is likely to be more conservative but also more pro-integration.
    "Worth asking your candidates"

    v funny.

    What percentage of people do you think know who their candidate is?
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    Patrick said:

    I think one thing is for sure - Osborne will have road tested the political impact of this budget to death.

    The 'omnishambles' budget was actually quite a good budget from the purely technical / financial / economic point of view. But it was a PR disaster. The 'pastie tax' angle while financially trivial was pure political poison.

    I'm 100% certain that every tiny measure will have been scrutinised for the 'how can Labour hurt us with this' challenge. So....I'm expecting something that is broadly going to be hard to criticise and will for the most part get good press.

    God bless you for thinking that they would be self-aware enough to know. Everything indeed from the pasty tax to the wrong type of burger shows they simply don't have that man-on-the-Barnsley-omnibus nous.

    I hope you are right but fear you are wrong.
    Well I think Ozzy was much chastened and actually rather shocked by the 2012 budget reaction. All the Eton / Toffs griping lately has made all of Team Dave very alert to this risk. But Osborne is at least self aware enough to realise when he needs a good honest challenge / bit of constructive criticism. I don't think Dave himself is. And nor are Miliband or Balls. We'll know if I'm right soon enough!
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.

    Can his boss do any better today? This is going to be the budget in this Parliament with the most good macroeconomic news. We will no doubt have references to the squeezed middle, falling real wages, wasted years etc etc but it will not be easy for Ed to sound like he has much constructive to say or an alternative vision going forward.

    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    Have a word with yerself, mate. PM Milliband and COE Balls will still be blaming Cameron and co in 2019. Hell, your gang still try and pin the blame on Thatcher!
    Some Labourites do - they are wrong to do so...
    What about Milliband and Balls in 2019, will they still be blaming Cameron and Osborne?

    Perhaps - Ozzy's record on the debt and deficit is lousy but, by then, they should be standing on their own two feet.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    O/T BETTING POST

    Man U 3.25 on betfair to "qualify" for last 8 - decent price IMHO.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,072
    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.

    Can his boss do any better today? This is going to be the budget in this Parliament with the most good macroeconomic news. We will no doubt have references to the squeezed middle, falling real wages, wasted years etc etc but it will not be easy for Ed to sound like he has much constructive to say or an alternative vision going forward.

    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    Have a word with yerself, mate. PM Milliband and COE Balls will still be blaming Cameron and co in 2019. Hell, your gang still try and pin the blame on Thatcher!
    Some Labourites do - they are wrong to do so...
    What about Milliband and Balls in 2019, will they still be blaming Cameron and Osborne?

    Perhaps - Ozzy's record on the debt and deficit is lousy but, by then, they should be standing on their own two feet.
    No. If Labour get poweri n 2015, all their current words about deep cuts will go out of the window and they'll go on another hideous spending splurge. It's inevitable.
  • Options
    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Has anyone compiled a list of how many times these were said in previous Osborne budgets?
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.

    Can his boss do any better today? This is going to be the budget in this Parliament with the most good macroeconomic news. We will no doubt have references to the squeezed middle, falling real wages, wasted years etc etc but it will not be easy for Ed to sound like he has much constructive to say or an alternative vision going forward.

    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    Yes and no. There are some things that a government can tackle directly and more or less immediately they get in power. There are other things for which there is a procedural, legal or economic lag.

    It can take time and considerable effort to change a country's course. Blaming this government for not doing it in four years, when the previous government did not manage it in 13 (and in some cases did not even try) can also appear ridiculous.
    We'll see. My guess is that those who still blame Labour are already voting Tory or Ukip. So it's a core vote strategy IMO, and that isn't a winner...
  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.

    Can his boss do any better today? This is going to be the budget in this Parliament with the most good macroeconomic news. We will no doubt have references to the squeezed middle, falling real wages, wasted years etc etc but it will not be easy for Ed to sound like he has much constructive to say or an alternative vision going forward.

    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    Have a word with yerself, mate. PM Milliband and COE Balls will still be blaming Cameron and co in 2019. Hell, your gang still try and pin the blame on Thatcher!
    Some Labourites do - they are wrong to do so...
    What about Milliband and Balls in 2019, will they still be blaming Cameron and Osborne?

    Perhaps - Ozzy's record on the debt and deficit is lousy but, by then, they should be standing on their own two feet.
    What would you have cut more?
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    If tax/taxes is predicted to be mentioned 92 times according to the above quote from sporting index then 10/1 on it being the first of the 'cliches' on the Paddypower list looks good value
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Light the blue touch paper---Jenkins wades in on HS2. Makes the point that the scheme is a dog now the two HS railways are not to be linked.

    Choo choo!

    http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/simon-jenkins-this-hs2-makedo-is-all-about-getting-a-bad-job-done-9199487.html

  • Options
    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    JonathanD said:

    The surefire bet is that the Chancellor will seek to hammer welfare recipients (except pensioners, of course) in order to put Labour on the spot. That he is doing this to some of the most vulnerable people in the country is not really the issue. If it makes Ed Balls uncomfortable, it's worth it.


    Its OK, Labour are already ahead of the Tories on hammering benefit recipients

    "Labour will be tougher than the Tories when it comes to slashing the benefits bill, Rachel Reeves, the new shadow work and pensions secretary, has insisted in her first interview since winning promotion"

    http://www.onenewspage.co.uk/n/Politics/74w2qut9h/Labour-will-be-tougher-than-Tories-on-benefits.htm

    You can, of course, be tough on the benefits bill without setting arbitrary caps that will inevitably hurt incredibly vulnerable people. But doing it that way makes it less easy to put Labour on the back foot so it is far less appealing to the Chancellor.

    I think it's fair to say that that particular line from Rachel Reeves has not shifted the public consciousness - a first mover advantage seized by the government, I think, and the ground claimed.

    I did a Buzzfeed - http://www.buzzfeed.com/jarry123/ten-quotes-on-welfare-that-show-the-tories-and-lab-ka7u - although if there is a way to make quizzes on Buzzfeed, I couldn't find it.
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Financier said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.

    Can his boss do any better today? This is going to be the budget in this Parliament with the most good macroeconomic news. We will no doubt have references to the squeezed middle, falling real wages, wasted years etc etc but it will not be easy for Ed to sound like he has much constructive to say or an alternative vision going forward.

    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    Have a word with yerself, mate. PM Milliband and COE Balls will still be blaming Cameron and co in 2019. Hell, your gang still try and pin the blame on Thatcher!
    Some Labourites do - they are wrong to do so...
    What about Milliband and Balls in 2019, will they still be blaming Cameron and Osborne?

    Perhaps - Ozzy's record on the debt and deficit is lousy but, by then, they should be standing on their own two feet.
    What would you have cut more?
    Another Conservative who doesn't understand economics - the economy was growing in 2010. Ozzy's useless policies choked it off so we had three wasted years, making the deficit worse. Ozzy of course blamed it on snow.
  • Options
    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.

    Can his boss do any better today? This is going to be the budget in this Parliament with the most good macroeconomic news. We will no doubt have references to the squeezed middle, falling real wages, wasted years etc etc but it will not be easy for Ed to sound like he has much constructive to say or an alternative vision going forward.

    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    Have a word with yerself, mate. PM Milliband and COE Balls will still be blaming Cameron and co in 2019. Hell, your gang still try and pin the blame on Thatcher!
    Some Labourites do - they are wrong to do so...
    What about Milliband and Balls in 2019, will they still be blaming Cameron and Osborne?

    Perhaps - Ozzy's record on the debt and deficit is lousy but, by then, they should be standing on their own two feet.

    Personally, I think that after 4 years, a government should be taking it on the chin.

    If Milliband and Balls aren't still blaming the previous government in 2019, I'd be pleasantly surprised. I don't expect to be, though. Let's face it, they hardly put their hands up immediately after, did they?
    Be honest, you can't really expect politicians to behave in any other way, can you?

  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.

    Can his boss do any better today? This is going to be the budget in this Parliament with the most good macroeconomic news. We will no doubt have references to the squeezed middle, falling real wages, wasted years etc etc but it will not be easy for Ed to sound like he has much constructive to say or an alternative vision going forward.

    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    Have a word with yerself, mate. PM Milliband and COE Balls will still be blaming Cameron and co in 2019. Hell, your gang still try and pin the blame on Thatcher!
    Some Labourites do - they are wrong to do so...
    What about Milliband and Balls in 2019, will they still be blaming Cameron and Osborne?

    Perhaps - Ozzy's record on the debt and deficit is lousy but, by then, they should be standing on their own two feet.
    2019, I'd be pleasantly surprised. I don't expect to be, though. Let's face it, they hardly put their hands up immediately after, did they?
    Be honest, you can't really expect politicians to behave in any other way, can you?

    Well I think we actually agree then!
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    The surefire bet is that the Chancellor will seek to hammer welfare recipients (except pensioners, of course) in order to put Labour on the spot. That he is doing this to some of the most vulnerable people in the country is not really the issue. If it makes Ed Balls uncomfortable, it's worth it.

    Can't find a market for that one
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.

    Can his boss do any better today? This is going to be the budget in this Parliament with the most good macroeconomic news. We will no doubt have references to the squeezed middle, falling real wages, wasted years etc etc but it will not be easy for Ed to sound like he has much constructive to say or an alternative vision going forward.

    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    Have a word with yerself, mate. PM Milliband and COE Balls will still be blaming Cameron and co in 2019. Hell, your gang still try and pin the blame on Thatcher!
    Some Labourites do - they are wrong to do so...
    What about Milliband and Balls in 2019, will they still be blaming Cameron and Osborne?

    Perhaps - Ozzy's record on the debt and deficit is lousy but, by then, they should be standing on their own two feet.
    No. If Labour get poweri n 2015, all their current words about deep cuts will go out of the window and they'll go on another hideous spending splurge. It's inevitable.
    100% wrong. Happy to bet.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,894


    No. If Labour get poweri n 2015, all their current words about deep cuts will go out of the window and they'll go on another hideous spending splurge. It's inevitable.

    You do need to stop listening to your inner Tory, JJ. I strongly suspect that there won't be a huge difference between the current Government and an Ed Miliband Government. Miliband has seen the experience of Hollande and knows a dramatic reversal of policy will spook the markets and put his Government on the back foot.

    I'd expect a 2016 Budget given by Ed Balls to keep many of the themes of the Coalition including helping the poorest and he may even be bold enough to look at the threshold. There would be plenty of talk about closing loopholes and Russian oligarchs and the like which would be the cover for looking at mansion taxes.

    An incoming Labour Government in 2015, just as Blair/Brown in 1997, would be all about reassurance, stability and continuity with the aim of keeping economic growth moving and managing the return to normal monetary policy.

    What interests me is how easy Carney will find working with another Chancellor.

  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    TGOHF said:

    O/T BETTING POST

    Man U 3.25 on betfair to "qualify" for last 8 - decent price IMHO.

    That's a good bet, thanks. I might have some of that.
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    BobaFett said:

    TGOHF said:

    O/T BETTING POST

    Man U 3.25 on betfair to "qualify" for last 8 - decent price IMHO.

    That's a good bet, thanks. I might have some of that.
    It's one of those bets where if you take it, you either win money, or get a great great laugh... win/win really..
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    stodge said:


    No. If Labour get poweri n 2015, all their current words about deep cuts will go out of the window and they'll go on another hideous spending splurge. It's inevitable.

    You do need to stop listening to your inner Tory, JJ. I strongly suspect that there won't be a huge difference between the current Government and an Ed Miliband Government. Miliband has seen the experience of Hollande and knows a dramatic reversal of policy will spook the markets and put his Government on the back foot.

    I'd expect a 2016 Budget given by Ed Balls to keep many of the themes of the Coalition including helping the poorest and he may even be bold enough to look at the threshold. There would be plenty of talk about closing loopholes and Russian oligarchs and the like which would be the cover for looking at mansion taxes.

    An incoming Labour Government in 2015, just as Blair/Brown in 1997, would be all about reassurance, stability and continuity with the aim of keeping economic growth moving and managing the return to normal monetary policy.

    What interests me is how easy Carney will find working with another Chancellor.

    I actually attended the Carney lecture last night. I found his speech rather dull.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    BobaFett said:

    Financier said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    One thing that might get greater prominence than usual if I am right about the budget being boring is the quality of the reply. Ball's reply to the Autumn statement was rightly panned as evidence that Labour had lost the argument on the economy fairly comprehensively.



    Surely, given the Chancellor may well announce 3% growth forecasts, ideas of boosting capital spending to get the economy moving have to be dumped. But Osborne will be setting traps as well as making announcements. Will Labour promise to match the cuts in spending announced for the next Parliament or will they give the tories the ammo for yet another "tax bombshell"? If they do promise to keep to the spending targets where will the cuts fall?

    Osborne has limited room for manouvre today but this most political of Chancellors will be trying very hard to set the context of the debate for the next election in the most favourable ground possible for the tories. So there will be lots of job half done, hard decisions to come, huge structural deficits left by the last government, the need to cut spending if taxes are not to rocket etc etc. Miliband needs to find a more coherent response to this than Balls has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    Have a word with yerself, mate. PM Milliband and COE Balls will still be blaming Cameron and co in 2019. Hell, your gang still try and pin the blame on Thatcher!
    Some Labourites do - they are wrong to do so...
    What about Milliband and Balls in 2019, will they still be blaming Cameron and Osborne?

    Perhaps - Ozzy's record on the debt and deficit is lousy but, by then, they should be standing on their own two feet.
    What would you have cut more?
    Another Conservative who doesn't understand economics - the economy was growing in 2010. Ozzy's useless policies choked it off so we had three wasted years, making the deficit worse. Ozzy of course blamed it on snow.
    Another leftwinger who doesn't understand the capital markets.

    The economy was growing on public and private debt. Up with which the capital markets would not much longer have put.
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    BobaFett said:

    TGOHF said:

    O/T BETTING POST

    Man U 3.25 on betfair to "qualify" for last 8 - decent price IMHO.

    That's a good bet, thanks. I might have some of that.

    I don't know, I was at Old Trafford on Sunday and they looked like they had lost all morale. Not even anger seemed to eminate from anyone at the performance ,mere acceptance
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    If tax/taxes is predicted to be mentioned 92 times according to the above quote from sporting index then 10/1 on it being the first of the 'cliches' on the Paddypower list looks good value

    I disagree... Taxes are the nitty gritty of the budget. Ozzie will go on the big picture issues first regarding the economy.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,072
    BobaFett said:

    Light the blue touch paper---Jenkins wades in on HS2. Makes the point that the scheme is a dog now the two HS railways are not to be linked.

    Choo choo!

    http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/simon-jenkins-this-hs2-makedo-is-all-about-getting-a-bad-job-done-9199487.html

    I though Jenkins has always been fairly solidly against HS2? Her was also against Crossrail, and his predictions for that appear to have been disproved. But at least he's consistent in being against both large projects, unlike some the anti-HS2 people.

    So what we have here are the expected (by me, on here) consequences of Labour's in-fighting over the HS2 project.

    And the idea that the HS1<>HS2 link is vital for the project is ridiculous, for the reasons given previously.

    http://www.londonreconnections.com/2009/crossrail-the-evening-standard-part-1-crossrail-the-white-elephant/
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,072
    stodge said:


    No. If Labour get poweri n 2015, all their current words about deep cuts will go out of the window and they'll go on another hideous spending splurge. It's inevitable.

    You do need to stop listening to your inner Tory, JJ. I strongly suspect that there won't be a huge difference between the current Government and an Ed Miliband Government. Miliband has seen the experience of Hollande and knows a dramatic reversal of policy will spook the markets and put his Government on the back foot.

    I'd expect a 2016 Budget given by Ed Balls to keep many of the themes of the Coalition including helping the poorest and he may even be bold enough to look at the threshold. There would be plenty of talk about closing loopholes and Russian oligarchs and the like which would be the cover for looking at mansion taxes.

    An incoming Labour Government in 2015, just as Blair/Brown in 1997, would be all about reassurance, stability and continuity with the aim of keeping economic growth moving and managing the return to normal monetary policy.

    What interests me is how easy Carney will find working with another Chancellor.

    I really cannot see it. Both Miliband and Balls have been at the heart of the treasury before, and their time there was hardly glorious., Especially, in case anyone needs reminding, for the staff.

    They may keep (in outline at least) to Tory plans for the first budget, or even two, but later ones will see them going for the electoral bribes that politicians are so keen on when it is not their money.

    Look at their past records. I see no evidence they ave learnt any lessons.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    BobaFett said:

    TGOHF said:

    O/T BETTING POST

    Man U 3.25 on betfair to "qualify" for last 8 - decent price IMHO.

    That's a good bet, thanks. I might have some of that.

    I don't know, I was at Old Trafford on Sunday and they looked like they had lost all morale. Not even anger seemed to eminate from anyone at the performance ,mere acceptance
    I think the anger is turning from the manager to the players (£300k a week ?) - certainly tonight is the last shot at redemption - you can always trade out if they go 1-0 up early ;)

  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    edited March 2014
    On sips of water, I seem to remember George having a double sip last time after miscalculating his first attempt. So I would predict he won't make the same schoolboy error this time and therefore the make up will be one less than last time (which was anybody?)
  • Options
    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    DavidL said:

    Anyone interested in the EU elections should follow www.pollwatch2014.eu looking at the expected balance in the forthcomming EU parliament.

    This is important as it could well affect who will be the next commission president. Juncker for the EPP (Christian Democrats et al) or Schulz for the Socialists?

    Voting Tory will not affect this battle, as the ECR have not put up a candidate.

    I think they will inevitably vote for the EPP candidate. UKIP will probably not turn up again so if you don't want a socialist in charge.....

    I imagine Cameron will do everything he can to block Juncker.
  • Options
    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Employment figures:

    Latest estimates show that the number of people in employment continued to increase. Unemployment continued to fall, as did the number of economically inactive people aged from 16 to 64. These changes continue the general direction of movement over the past two years.
    Employment was up 105,000 from August to October 2013 and up 459,000 on the year to 30.19 million for November 2013 to January 2014.
    The increase in employment between August to October 2013 and November 2013 to January 2014 was due to more self-employed people; the number of employees fell over this period.
    Employment rate was 72.3% (for people aged from 16 to 64) for November 2013 to January 2014, up from 72.0% for August to October 2013 and from 71.5% the previous year.
    Unemployment was down 63,000 from August to October 2013 and down 191,000 on the year to 2.33 million for November 2013 to January 2014.
    Unemployment rate was 7.2% of the labour force (those unemployed plus those employed) for November 2013 to January 2014, down from 7.4% for August to October 2013 and from 7.8% the previous year.
    The unemployment rate is the same as the figure of 7.2% for October to December 2013 published last month. However it is not directly comparable with that figure, as the Labour Force Survey is not designed to measure monthly changes.
    Pay including bonuses for November 2013 to January 2014 was 1.4% higher than a year earlier, with pay excluding bonuses 1.3% higher.
    Unemployment itself stable after recent large falls but poor as far as further progress goes. However on the pay front the comparable figures just 1 month ago were 1.1% and 1.0% - so a significant improvement but not there yet.
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    Re the the number of times 'euro' gets mentioned (apparently according to SI rules Eurozone does not count but the plural does), I can see this being mentioned not at all (maybe once) . I think it scored a family fortunes ner nerrrr last time out and that was in the midst of Cyprus' problems
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    TGOHF said:

    BobaFett said:

    TGOHF said:

    O/T BETTING POST

    Man U 3.25 on betfair to "qualify" for last 8 - decent price IMHO.

    That's a good bet, thanks. I might have some of that.

    I don't know, I was at Old Trafford on Sunday and they looked like they had lost all morale. Not even anger seemed to eminate from anyone at the performance ,mere acceptance
    I think the anger is turning from the manager to the players (£300k a week ?) - certainly tonight is the last shot at redemption - you can always trade out if they go 1-0 up early ;)

    I think player morale is at an all time low. Maybe having a seemingly unsackable manager who many do not respect is causing it.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,391

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    You are clearly right that there is a law of diminishing returns here although the polling on responsibility for the cuts has been surprisingly favourable to the Coalition.

    What I think Osborne will seek to do today is show that he has cut the structural deficit in half but half remains so that there is a compelling need for further cuts in public spending into the next Parliament. Whether that is ultimately right or wrong (I think it is right myself) it is exactly the territory that the tories will want to fight the next election on and Osborne will be doing his best to set this up today.

    It needs to be done with care, to avoid giving hostages to fortune. One way might be to announce a once-off poll tax of say £50k with exemptions for those who are either members of either Coalition party or who can demonstrate that they have opposed the march of socialism, perhaps by sacking left-wing staff or the content of their posts on sites such as this.

    Well Southam certainly seems to think that there might be tax advantages in supporting the burning of the poor. It would be nice to think that my time here was not entirely wasted.

    I just think you will find that only lefties tend to show that level of ruthlessness and focus on those they dislike. The banker's bonus tax being an obvious example.

    I am pleased that you at least have the grace to admit that Tories dislike people on benefits!

    Absolutely, tories hate having people on benefits. That is why they work so hard to get them jobs. And a very good job they have been doing too!
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    BobaFett said:

    DavidL said:

    has.

    I may be wrong but I don't think blaming the last govt when you have been in power for four years is wise. The public tend to think "erm, you've been here for what seems like an eternity, what have you been doing about it?"
    You are clearly right that there is a law of diminishing returns here although the polling on responsibility for the cuts has been surprisingly favourable to the Coalition.

    What I think Osborne will seek to do today is show that he has cut the structural deficit in half but half remains so that there is a compelling need for further cuts in public spending into the next Parliament. Whether that is ultimately right or wrong (I think it is right myself) it is exactly the territory that the tories will want to fight the next election on and Osborne will be doing his best to set this up today.

    It needs to be done with care, to avoid giving hostages to fortune. One way might be to announce a once-off poll tax of say £50k with exemptions for those who are either members of either Coalition party or who can demonstrate that they have opposed the march of socialism, perhaps by sacking left-wing staff or the content of their posts on sites such as this.

    Well Southam certainly seems to think that there might be tax advantages in supporting the burning of the poor. It would be nice to think that my time here was not entirely wasted.

    I just think you will find that only lefties tend to show that level of ruthlessness and focus on those they dislike. The banker's bonus tax being an obvious example.

    I am pleased that you at least have the grace to admit that Tories dislike people on benefits!

    Absolutely, tories hate having people on benefits. That is why they work so hard to get them jobs. And a very good job they have been doing too!
    Would have made a great riposte at PMQ's that -wasted!!
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,391
    Neil said:

    DavidL said:

    Anyone interested in the EU elections should follow www.pollwatch2014.eu looking at the expected balance in the forthcomming EU parliament.

    This is important as it could well affect who will be the next commission president. Juncker for the EPP (Christian Democrats et al) or Schulz for the Socialists?

    Voting Tory will not affect this battle, as the ECR have not put up a candidate.

    I think they will inevitably vote for the EPP candidate. UKIP will probably not turn up again so if you don't want a socialist in charge.....

    I imagine Cameron will do everything he can to block Juncker.
    Why? I would have thought the reverse. And publically supporting him is a favour banked with Merkel which might come in handy. Is he some raving arch federalist?

This discussion has been closed.