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Diagnosing the NHS – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,158
edited November 7 in General
imageDiagnosing the NHS – politicalbetting.com

This is something that has been done many, many times before by lots of medical professionals, politicians, think tanks and other various people attached to the NHS in some way. We have had the insiders view, the outsiders view, the private healthcare view and on exceedingly rare occasions, patient views. How will this be any different? I guess it won’t, at least it won’t set out to be different for the sake of it.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,774
    FPT Mr. Wilderness, add 7p to petrol and you increase the cost of goods being delivered, driving up prices, driving up inflation.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    There is no quick fix to healthcare just a slog to get on top of the monster.

    Move to an insureance based system
    Take on the BMA
    Use AI
    Train more doctors and nurses
    Start healthcare at primary school with good food and exercise.
  • First, unlike the NHS in anything other than DEI.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    FPT Mr. Wilderness, add 7p to petrol and you increase the cost of goods being delivered, driving up prices, driving up inflation.

    I think it doesn’t occur to these metro types that run things that outside of their bubble, everyone drives everywhere
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    moonshine said:

    FPT Mr. Wilderness, add 7p to petrol and you increase the cost of goods being delivered, driving up prices, driving up inflation.

    I think it doesn’t occur to these metro types that run things that outside of their bubble, everyone drives everywhere
    Rabble rabble rabble metro types rabble. The money has to come from somewhere
  • Pay for 1000000 million to have a holiday in Thailand for 5 years. The cost would be cheaper than having them enrolled In the NHS for the same period. Use the money saved to pay for apologies fund for all the countries we have wronged over the years or any individual who makes a claim for compensation against the UK and give them a huge payout if we fact check their story and find out it is a pack of lies.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569

    FPT Mr. Wilderness, add 7p to petrol and you increase the cost of goods being delivered, driving up prices, driving up inflation.

    Not only does fuel duty feed into inflation like nothing else government could do bar printing trillions, it’s also a declining revenue stream thanks to increases in engine efficiency and more people buying electric vehicles.

    The problem is that the very last users of electric vehicles are going to be long-distance freight. Which is also why HS2 needs to be completed yesterday, as it frees up freight paths on the WC main line so that freight going from Southampton and Felixstowe heading for the midlands and North can do most of the journey by rail.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350
    An interesting article. The last paragraph missed one obvious possibility though - make membership of sporting clubs (gyms, swimming pools, etc) tax deductible as long as you can demonstrate you've used them twelve times in a year. And exempt them from VAT, to make them cheaper to operate.
  • CJohnCJohn Posts: 14
    Japan: population went above 100m at the start of the 70s. Even there was huge pressure on the very densely populated coastal areas.

    Population is now "down" to around 124 million.

    Japan will not run out of people; the population will re-stabilise at a much lower level in a few decades.

    This may upset Japanese nationalist politicians, but will overall be positive for quality of life.

    Japan are a few decades ahead in this transition to a more sustainable population level. We'd do well to learn from them, rather than being caught on an upwards escalator propelled by mass immigration.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    moonshine said:

    FPT Mr. Wilderness, add 7p to petrol and you increase the cost of goods being delivered, driving up prices, driving up inflation.

    I think it doesn’t occur to these metro types that run things that outside of their bubble, everyone drives everywhere
    By freezing fuel duty every year for 11 years the last government has forgone over 100bn of revenue, at the same time as it was raising money elsewhere. Money that could, for example, have helped to fund the support on energy bills in the crisis of 2022.
  • PB tories hate every single tax increase but yet their lads left public finances in dire straits. Fuck off, you broke it. The money has to come from somewhere and if business owners have to take some money from profits to pay NI then so what. Deal with it.

    That’s not what happens. There is no free money. All taxes and costs dribble down to the consumer and employees.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    edited October 26

    PB tories hate every single tax increase but yet their lads left public finances in dire straits. Fuck off, you broke it. The money has to come from somewhere and if business owners have to take some money from profits to pay NI then so what. Deal with it.

    That’s not what happens. There is no free money. All taxes and costs dribble down to the consumer and employees.
    Costs are costs and the free market deals with them in various ways. Capitalists should know that not every cost results in higher prices as prices are a function of the competitive market place. You can’t raise your prices to preserve profit margins if they become too high for the market to bear.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,632
    Before the election some Tories and Tory commentators not that far away used to delight at the “scorched Earth” they would leave for Labour. The idea was to break things so badly that any incoming administration would have to make unpopular decisions and last one term.

    We might like to remember that when they complain about tax rises.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569

    There is no quick fix to healthcare just a slog to get on top of the monster.

    Move to an insureance based system
    Take on the BMA
    Use AI
    Train more doctors and nurses
    Start healthcare at primary school with good food and exercise.

    Also encourage employers to provide private healthcare to their staff.

    The biggest problem is that the NHS has the inertia of a fully-laden oil tanker, so there need to be parallel structures created alongside if there’s to be any noticable improvement in parliamentary term timescales. They’re also close to a single monopoly employer for many professions, so increases in numbers of these will need to come from outside the country.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,543
    ydoethur said:

    An interesting article. The last paragraph missed one obvious possibility though - make membership of sporting clubs (gyms, swimming pools, etc) tax deductible as long as you can demonstrate you've used them twelve times in a year. And exempt them from VAT, to make them cheaper to operate.

    Occasionally it's twelve times in a week for me.... (if I include the attached pool)...

    I know it's been discussed a lot on here recently, but wearable health trackers are going to be massively useful in the future. They not only encourage certain types of people to be more active, but the heart-rate monitoring is just the start of what they will be able to do.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    TimS said:

    There is no quick fix to healthcare just a slog to get on top of the monster.

    Move to an insureance based system
    Take on the BMA
    Use AI
    Train more doctors and nurses
    Start healthcare at primary school with good food and exercise.

    Isn’t the funding method (“move to an insurance based system”) a red herring? You end up spending billions on a massive bureaucratic change simply to shuffle some paperwork from one side of the desk to the other.

    Other European systems with insurance based funding have better outcomes than us because they have more money, newer infrastructure and more staff. My experience of the French system, which I assume you’ve also experienced, is that it’s all very impressive except for the interminable form filling at the end.
    Most sane countries have a base health care level and use insurance as a top up. There are lots of variations of the insurance theme and the UK can see all of them in action somewhere.
    We have our own system here which lots of people want to close down . If we did we'd just have bigger queues.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 993
    edited October 26
    How would an insurance based system help - who pays for the cost of processing the claims.

    I am 75 get tested annually because I failed a Lucozade test once -apparently now OK but classed as prediabetic - I take no drugs and have not changed my diet. But I get called in for annual tests because the GP practise gets paid for them. My wife 73 never sees the doctor. Better would be perhaps 3 year meetings for everyone over 60 with their GP - not the nurse - to see if we are OK, but decided by the GP rather than because he/she was paid to do extra tests.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    TimS said:

    moonshine said:

    FPT Mr. Wilderness, add 7p to petrol and you increase the cost of goods being delivered, driving up prices, driving up inflation.

    I think it doesn’t occur to these metro types that run things that outside of their bubble, everyone drives everywhere
    By freezing fuel duty every year for 11 years the last government has forgone over 100bn of revenue, at the same time as it was raising money elsewhere. Money that could, for example, have helped to fund the support on energy bills in the crisis of 2022.
    Except that petrol would be closer to £3 a litre than £2, if all of these magic increases had actually happened.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350

    ydoethur said:

    An interesting article. The last paragraph missed one obvious possibility though - make membership of sporting clubs (gyms, swimming pools, etc) tax deductible as long as you can demonstrate you've used them twelve times in a year. And exempt them from VAT, to make them cheaper to operate.

    Occasionally it's twelve times in a week for me.... (if I include the attached pool)...

    I know it's been discussed a lot on here recently, but wearable health trackers are going to be massively useful in the future. They not only encourage certain types of people to be more active, but the heart-rate monitoring is just the start of what they will be able to do.
    Show off 😉
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,394

    PB tories hate every single tax increase but yet their lads left public finances in dire straits. Fuck off, you broke it. The money has to come from somewhere and if business owners have to take some money from profits to pay NI then so what. Deal with it.

    Hilarious post, and tellingly defensive.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    moonshine said:

    FPT Mr. Wilderness, add 7p to petrol and you increase the cost of goods being delivered, driving up prices, driving up inflation.

    I think it doesn’t occur to these metro types that run things that outside of their bubble, everyone drives everywhere
    By freezing fuel duty every year for 11 years the last government has forgone over 100bn of revenue, at the same time as it was raising money elsewhere. Money that could, for example, have helped to fund the support on energy bills in the crisis of 2022.
    Except that petrol would be closer to £3 a litre than £2, if all of these magic increases had actually happened.
    And maybe we would have had the cash to properly invest in infrastructure and education which would have realised more “productivity improvements” that you guys love so much, possibly resulting in lower taxes overall.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,337

    PB tories hate every single tax increase but yet their lads left public finances in dire straits. Fuck off, you broke it. The money has to come from somewhere and if business owners have to take some money from profits to pay NI then so what. Deal with it.

    That’s like using your right hand to chop off your left and yelling “There you are, you bastard, that’ll show you.”
  • Icarus said:

    How would an insurance based system help - who pays for the cost of processing the claims.

    I am 75 get tested annually because I failed a Lucozade test once -apparently now OK but classed as prediabetic - I take no drugs and have not changed my diet. But I get called in for annual tests because the GP practise gets paid for them. My wife 73 never sees the doctor. Better would be perhaps 3 year meetings for everyone over 60 with their GP - not the nurse - to see if we are OK, but decided by the GP rather than because he/she was paid to do extra tests.

    It’s pretty much guaranteed the only time the GP wants to see you is because they are receiving a payment. Every other time you are seen as an inconvenience and triaged out when possible from accessing any help.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    PB tories hate every single tax increase but yet their lads left public finances in dire straits. Fuck off, you broke it. The money has to come from somewhere and if business owners have to take some money from profits to pay NI then so what. Deal with it.

    Hilarious post, and tellingly defensive.
    Right. Every single word of it is true. You guys broke it and Labour are trying to fix it. Maybe it will work, maybe it won’t, but at least they are trying. Stop talking down Britain pal
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    PB tories hate every single tax increase but yet their lads left public finances in dire straits. Fuck off, you broke it. The money has to come from somewhere and if business owners have to take some money from profits to pay NI then so what. Deal with it.

    Shame it’s gonna fuck the economy making your prospects even worse
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983

    PB tories hate every single tax increase but yet their lads left public finances in dire straits. Fuck off, you broke it. The money has to come from somewhere and if business owners have to take some money from profits to pay NI then so what. Deal with it.

    That’s not what happens. There is no free money. All taxes and costs dribble down to the consumer and employees.
    Like most things there is an optimum level of government infrastructure and service funding, above which the tax take reduces growth so much as to be self defeating, and below which public health, skills, law and order and physical infrastructure deteriorate so far that they reduce economic growth, but nobody knows where that is. So it has to be arrived at through iteration and experimentation.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,394
    TimS said:

    There is no quick fix to healthcare just a slog to get on top of the monster.

    Move to an insureance based system
    Take on the BMA
    Use AI
    Train more doctors and nurses
    Start healthcare at primary school with good food and exercise.

    Isn’t the funding method (“move to an insurance based system”) a red herring? You end up spending billions on a massive bureaucratic change simply to shuffle some paperwork from one side of the desk to the other.

    Other European systems with insurance based funding have better outcomes than us because they have more money, newer infrastructure and more staff. My experience of the French system, which I assume you’ve also experienced, is that it’s all very impressive except for the interminable form filling at the end.
    My view is that individuals need to take more responsibility for their health and some of the risk; that leads them choosing to spend more money on it, with faster access to better and more high-quality care, and also better healthcare outcomes.

    A one-size fits all rationed model isn't good and the NHS is a massive bottleneck.

    Do I expect to get anywhere with this argument?

    Absolutely not: the NHS is a religion.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    Sean_F said:

    PB tories hate every single tax increase but yet their lads left public finances in dire straits. Fuck off, you broke it. The money has to come from somewhere and if business owners have to take some money from profits to pay NI then so what. Deal with it.

    That’s like using your right hand to chop off your left and yelling “There you are, you bastard, that’ll show you.”
    I mean it isn’t. We get taxed on lots of things and this is no different. If you argue that Employer’s NI is so terrible then fine but that argument applies to any rate of that tax and we seem to survive just fine with it.

    I’m doubt the Tories are going to campaign on removing it entirely. Lets be honest, any tax rise Labour propose is going to be criticised but yet how can you argue they are not necessarily?
  • Jonathan said:

    Before the election some Tories and Tory commentators not that far away used to delight at the “scorched Earth” they would leave for Labour. The idea was to break things so badly that any incoming administration would have to make unpopular decisions and last one term.

    We might like to remember that when they complain about tax rises.

    The only real scorched earth were the ni tax cuts and the non dom changes, the latter preempting what Labour was planning to do. The Labour Party could have quite easily refused to implement the NI reductions. The government at the time received no boost from either of the reductions.
    This is their choice not to reintroduce a reduction which was barely noticed anyway.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,394
    Sandpit said:

    There is no quick fix to healthcare just a slog to get on top of the monster.

    Move to an insureance based system
    Take on the BMA
    Use AI
    Train more doctors and nurses
    Start healthcare at primary school with good food and exercise.

    Also encourage employers to provide private healthcare to their staff.

    The biggest problem is that the NHS has the inertia of a fully-laden oil tanker, so there need to be parallel structures created alongside if there’s to be any noticable improvement in parliamentary term timescales. They’re also close to a single monopoly employer for many professions, so increases in numbers of these will need to come from outside the country.
    Even if you have private healthcare the "gatekeeping" of needing GPs for consultant referrals, and going through A&E, can put big delays and access issues in the way of getting to quality healthcare.

    Of course, it means more people get chronically sick, or die.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    CJohn said:

    Japan: population went above 100m at the start of the 70s. Even there was huge pressure on the very densely populated coastal areas.

    Population is now "down" to around 124 million.

    Japan will not run out of people; the population will re-stabilise at a much lower level in a few decades.

    This may upset Japanese nationalist politicians, but will overall be positive for quality of life.

    Japan are a few decades ahead in this transition to a more sustainable population level. We'd do well to learn from them, rather than being caught on an upwards escalator propelled by mass immigration.

    It makes towns like Hida Furukawa very agreeably quiet and tranquil - but it must be melancholy for locals. Their population has HALVED in fifty years and the decline seems to be accelerating

    On the other hand, just now I saw a pair of magnificent raptors down from the Alpine peaks, and as I sit here on my ryokan balcony in the regal sun I can vermillion dragonflies hovering in the golden light

    A world with many fewer humans will be a wilder greener and lovelier world
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    Hope no-one here bets on cricket matches involving Pakistan?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    edited October 26
    It’s funny how the cost of Employer’s NI is terrible but you think that employers are just going to voluntarily pay for their staff to have the benefit of private medical insurance (which is another cost) if they don’t have to?

    There’s no culture of private medical insurance for the masses in this country and that isn’t going to change over night.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261
    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    moonshine said:

    FPT Mr. Wilderness, add 7p to petrol and you increase the cost of goods being delivered, driving up prices, driving up inflation.

    I think it doesn’t occur to these metro types that run things that outside of their bubble, everyone drives everywhere
    By freezing fuel duty every year for 11 years the last government has forgone over 100bn of revenue, at the same time as it was raising money elsewhere. Money that could, for example, have helped to fund the support on energy bills in the crisis of 2022.
    Except that petrol would be closer to £3 a litre than £2, if all of these magic increases had actually happened.
    And maybe we would have had the cash to properly invest in infrastructure and education which would have realised more “productivity improvements” that you guys love so much, possibly resulting in lower taxes overall.
    Unfortunately the national Union of drivers is almost as powerful a lobby group as the national Union of pensioners.

    If I were paying say £2.50 per litre when I fill up that would be consistent with inflation.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Gets Rogan more attention which he thrives on as does Trump. Two egomanics together.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569

    Sandpit said:

    There is no quick fix to healthcare just a slog to get on top of the monster.

    Move to an insureance based system
    Take on the BMA
    Use AI
    Train more doctors and nurses
    Start healthcare at primary school with good food and exercise.

    Also encourage employers to provide private healthcare to their staff.

    The biggest problem is that the NHS has the inertia of a fully-laden oil tanker, so there need to be parallel structures created alongside if there’s to be any noticable improvement in parliamentary term timescales. They’re also close to a single monopoly employer for many professions, so increases in numbers of these will need to come from outside the country.
    Even if you have private healthcare the "gatekeeping" of needing GPs for consultant referrals, and going through A&E, can put big delays and access issues in the way of getting to quality healthcare.

    Of course, it means more people get chronically sick, or die.
    Yes the GP ‘gatekeeper’ system is a mess, and often leads people being more sick when they actually see the consultant.

    Given how totally jammed up is the current NHS, I think the only way to clear the backlog is going to be to send people abroad for treatment, perhaps paid for by a limited one-off tax on something. VAT to 25% for one year might raise £30bn, for example. (It raised £160bn last year, but a lot of high-end spending might be deferred if the cut was known to be temporary). Labour should be able to sell “5p for the NHS”, and it will be largely forgotten about by 2029.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Gets Rogan more attention which he thrives on as does Trump. Two egomanics together.

    Well yeah OK, but what do we think to this as a campaign tactic just over a week out from polling day?

    It's an interesting choice from Team Trump in what I think has been a MUCH better campaign compared to either 2016 or 2020.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,394
    Jonathan said:

    Before the election some Tories and Tory commentators not that far away used to delight at the “scorched Earth” they would leave for Labour. The idea was to break things so badly that any incoming administration would have to make unpopular decisions and last one term.

    We might like to remember that when they complain about tax rises.

    That's absolute nonsense.

    It's a nice political attempt at framing, but the trouble is it doesn't wash because firstly it's not true and secondly your party hasn't had the message and action discipline to make it stick.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    An interesting article. The last paragraph missed one obvious possibility though - make membership of sporting clubs (gyms, swimming pools, etc) tax deductible as long as you can demonstrate you've used them twelve times in a year. And exempt them from VAT, to make them cheaper to operate.

    Occasionally it's twelve times in a week for me.... (if I include the attached pool)...

    I know it's been discussed a lot on here recently, but wearable health trackers are going to be massively useful in the future. They not only encourage certain types of people to be more active, but the heart-rate monitoring is just the start of what they will be able to do.
    Show off 😉
    They must be made compulsory immediately or no admission into Macdonalds or Kentucky will be allowed, plus Just eat and apps like it will be blacklisted for anyone who does participate as well.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,157
    edited October 26

    It’s funny how the cost of Employer’s NI is terrible but you think that employers are just going to voluntarily pay for their staff to have the benefit of private medical insurance (which is another cost) if they don’t have to?

    There’s no culture of private medical insurance for the masses in this country and that isn’t going to change over night.

    The Gov't gets the Employer NI due on the private medical insurance y'know ;) Also the tax as it's a BiK.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Does Beyonce and Willie Nelson win it for Kamala?*

    * Not on PB
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Good question.

    I’ve not watched the whole thing, will probably listen in the car on Monday, but from the clips going around he’s not said anything totally outrageous, which is pretty good effort given it’s nearly three hours long!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,543
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    An interesting article. The last paragraph missed one obvious possibility though - make membership of sporting clubs (gyms, swimming pools, etc) tax deductible as long as you can demonstrate you've used them twelve times in a year. And exempt them from VAT, to make them cheaper to operate.

    Occasionally it's twelve times in a week for me.... (if I include the attached pool)...

    I know it's been discussed a lot on here recently, but wearable health trackers are going to be massively useful in the future. They not only encourage certain types of people to be more active, but the heart-rate monitoring is just the start of what they will be able to do.
    Show off 😉
    The thing is, I *hate* gyms. I only really use them if I've got a niggle or injury that precludes me from running, or if I've got a set program I need to follow. Over the last year I've discovered I love swimming, though.

    And that's another point: may people are put off activities or sport because of the competitive nature of them. It doesn't need to be that way: Parkrun is a classic example of where much of the point is just taking part. I reckon there's a physical activity/sport for most people out there: they just need to find it/them.

    In addition, many sorts clubs are very exclusive and competitive. This is apparently the case with some triathlon clubs (*) - some are very open to all abilities, even newbies, whereas others are only interested if you're ultra-competitive or doing Ironmans. I know one lady who stopped doing triathlons because her local club was so elitist and unwelcoming.

    (*) I haven't joined one yet, but the members of my local club appear very welcoming.
  • GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Gets Rogan more attention which he thrives on as does Trump. Two egomanics together.

    Well yeah OK, but what do we think to this as a campaign tactic just over a week out from polling day?

    It's an interesting choice from Team Trump in what I think has been a MUCH better campaign compared to either 2016 or 2020.
    I imagine it was planned a long time ago. A clever move. Would you say Rogans followers are most likely to be Trump than Harris supporters?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,394
    Interesting piece by Max, I'd like to see real food cooking taught in all schools, national cooking/cookery campaigns, and more visits to farmers/farms at all levels of education.

    One thing: I get leaflets through the door every other week from Dominos and PapaJohns, both of which I hate. Yes, they can post what they like - and no doubt this is part of an aggressive marketing campaign - but things like this combined with JustEat and Deliveroo make it very very easy to eat shit.

    How do we make it easier to eat well?
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    An interesting article. The last paragraph missed one obvious possibility though - make membership of sporting clubs (gyms, swimming pools, etc) tax deductible as long as you can demonstrate you've used them twelve times in a year. And exempt them from VAT, to make them cheaper to operate.

    Occasionally it's twelve times in a week for me.... (if I include the attached pool)...

    I know it's been discussed a lot on here recently, but wearable health trackers are going to be massively useful in the future. They not only encourage certain types of people to be more active, but the heart-rate monitoring is just the start of what they will be able to do.
    Show off 😉
    The thing is, I *hate* gyms. I only really use them if I've got a niggle or injury that precludes me from running, or if I've got a set program I need to follow. Over the last year I've discovered I love swimming, though.

    And that's another point: may people are put off activities or sport because of the competitive nature of them. It doesn't need to be that way: Parkrun is a classic example of where much of the point is just taking part. I reckon there's a physical activity/sport for most people out there: they just need to find it/them.

    In addition, many sorts clubs are very exclusive and competitive. This is apparently the case with some triathlon clubs (*) - some are very open to all abilities, even newbies, whereas others are only interested if you're ultra-competitive or doing Ironmans. I know one lady who stopped doing triathlons because her local club was so elitist and unwelcoming.

    (*) I haven't joined one yet, but the members of my local club appear very welcoming.
    I agree with your comments. Ultra competitive and certainly not always welcoming aside of some exceptions.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Does Beyonce and Willie Nelson win it for Kamala?*

    * Not on PB
    Kamala getting celebrity endorsements is kind if priced in I'd think?

    Trump spurning conventional Presidential debates on MSM to do 3hrs with Joe Rogan on YouTube and Spotify is an interesting choice.

    Have no idea if this will make any difference to the eventual outcome or not.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,157
    edited October 26

    PB tories hate every single tax increase but yet their lads left public finances in dire straits. Fuck off, you broke it. The money has to come from somewhere and if business owners have to take some money from profits to pay NI then so what. Deal with it.
    That'd be a hike in corporation tax :)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited October 26
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Before the election some Tories and Tory commentators not that far away used to delight at the “scorched Earth” they would leave for Labour. The idea was to break things so badly that any incoming administration would have to make unpopular decisions and last one term.

    We might like to remember that when they complain about tax rises.

    That's absolute nonsense.

    It's a nice political attempt at framing, but the trouble is it doesn't wash because firstly it's not true and secondly your party hasn't had the message and action discipline to make it stick.
    Tories are like a spoiled teenager with a hangover, complaining about the noise of someone clearing up the house that their party trashed the night before.

    When it’s your vomit, you don’t get to criticise the cleaner.
    Unless you pretend it wasn't you that smashed the place up.

    I can't remember where, but I read one Conservative commentator musing that when the Conservatives were in office in 2010 satisfaction with the NHS had never been higher, now with Labour in office satisfaction with the NHS is in the toilet.*

    * Factually true of course but conveniently omitting to consider the intervening 14 years of Conservative management of the NHS.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261
    edited October 26

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Gets Rogan more attention which he thrives on as does Trump. Two egomanics together.

    Well yeah OK, but what do we think to this as a campaign tactic just over a week out from polling day?

    It's an interesting choice from Team Trump in what I think has been a MUCH better campaign compared to either 2016 or 2020.
    I imagine it was planned a long time ago. A clever move. Would you say Rogans followers are most likely to be Trump than Harris supporters?
    My guess is Rogan's followers would be more likely Trump voters, so in the end they may be speaking to the base and any impact will be minimal.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Gets Rogan more attention which he thrives on as does Trump. Two egomanics together.

    Well yeah OK, but what do we think to this as a campaign tactic just over a week out from polling day?

    It's an interesting choice from Team Trump in what I think has been a MUCH better campaign compared to either 2016 or 2020.
    I imagine it was planned a long time ago. A clever move. Would you say Rogans followers are most likely to be Trump than Harris supporters?
    If it was organised a while ago, everyone involved kept very quiet until a few days back. Monday was when the speculation started.

    Rogan’s audience skews male and rural, so theoretically more likely to be Trump votes than Harris voters.

    He does get something totally outrageous like 100m views and downloads, by far the most popular podcast out there. This one will likely set records for a single podcast episode, half the country will have watched it before the election.
  • Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Gets Rogan more attention which he thrives on as does Trump. Two egomanics together.

    Well yeah OK, but what do we think to this as a campaign tactic just over a week out from polling day?

    It's an interesting choice from Team Trump in what I think has been a MUCH better campaign compared to either 2016 or 2020.
    I imagine it was planned a long time ago. A clever move. Would you say Rogans followers are most likely to be Trump than Harris supporters?
    If it was organised a while ago, everyone involved kept very quiet until a few days back. Monday was when the speculation started.

    Rogan’s audience skews male and rural, so theoretically more likely to be Trump votes than Harris voters.

    He does get something totally outrageous like 100m views and downloads, by far the most popular podcast out there. This one will likely set records for a single podcast episode, half the country will have watched it before the election.
    Interesting. I agree with you about the profile of his audience.
  • Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Gets Rogan more attention which he thrives on as does Trump. Two egomanics together.

    Well yeah OK, but what do we think to this as a campaign tactic just over a week out from polling day?

    It's an interesting choice from Team Trump in what I think has been a MUCH better campaign compared to either 2016 or 2020.
    I imagine it was planned a long time ago. A clever move. Would you say Rogans followers are most likely to be Trump than Harris supporters?
    If it was organised a while ago, everyone involved kept very quiet until a few days back. Monday was when the speculation started.

    Rogan’s audience skews male and rural, so theoretically more likely to be Trump votes than Harris voters.

    He does get something totally outrageous like 100m views and downloads, by far the most popular podcast out there. This one will likely set records for a single podcast episode, half the country will have watched it before the election.
    Interesting. I agree with you about the profile of his audience.
    100 million. What is the total number of people who actually vote in the USA election. 146 million?
  • GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Gets Rogan more attention which he thrives on as does Trump. Two egomanics together.

    Well yeah OK, but what do we think to this as a campaign tactic just over a week out from polling day?

    It's an interesting choice from Team Trump in what I think has been a MUCH better campaign compared to either 2016 or 2020.
    I imagine it was planned a long time ago. A clever move. Would you say Rogans followers are most likely to be Trump than Harris supporters?
    My guess is Rogan's followers would be more likely Trump voters, so in the end they may be speaking to the base and any impact will be minimal.
    Agreed!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Gets Rogan more attention which he thrives on as does Trump. Two egomanics together.

    Well yeah OK, but what do we think to this as a campaign tactic just over a week out from polling day?

    It's an interesting choice from Team Trump in what I think has been a MUCH better campaign compared to either 2016 or 2020.
    I imagine it was planned a long time ago. A clever move. Would you say Rogans followers are most likely to be Trump than Harris supporters?
    If it was organised a while ago, everyone involved kept very quiet until a few days back. Monday was when the speculation started.

    Rogan’s audience skews male and rural, so theoretically more likely to be Trump votes than Harris voters.

    He does get something totally outrageous like 100m views and downloads, by far the most popular podcast out there. This one will likely set records for a single podcast episode, half the country will have watched it before the election.
    Interesting. I agree with you about the profile of his audience.
    It does feel like the Trump team masterplanned this last few weeks whereas Kamala has been winging it since the kamalagasm

    Nonetheless people are writing off the Dems far too easily. An awful lot of Americans fear and despise Donald Trump and would vote for chairman Mao in preference to him
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350

    It’s funny how the cost of Employer’s NI is terrible but you think that employers are just going to voluntarily pay for their staff to have the benefit of private medical insurance (which is another cost) if they don’t have to?

    There’s no culture of private medical insurance for the masses in this country and that isn’t going to change over night.

    At least some of them do, actually. Including both private schools I worked for.

    They found it cheaper to get their staff treated fast and back on the job than to hire supply for a long period.

    How typical that is I wouldn't know.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    edited October 26
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Does Beyonce and Willie Nelson win it for Kamala?*

    * Not on PB
    Kamala getting celebrity endorsements is kind if priced in I'd think?

    Trump spurning conventional Presidential debates on MSM to do 3hrs with Joe Rogan on YouTube and Spotify is an interesting choice.

    Have no idea if this will make any difference to the eventual outcome or not.
    Harris had singer Beyoncé Knowles performing on stage with her last night, a good tactic to attract a crowd to a political rally which the Harris campaign has used quite a bit. She’s apparently trying to get Taylor Swift for one appearance next week.

    Trump has had a few country singers at his rallies, but not the A-list pop artists of the Harris campaign.

    Rogan says that Harris has been invited, is welcome to turn up, and says he just wants to talk to her and she who she is. Trump of course was dismissive of the idea, saying that there’s no way she can talk for so long off script!

    He probably has half a point, it’s a difficult decision for the Democrats to make. Rogan’s not going to let the campaign edit anything or have a room full of advisors passing her notes, and now that Trump has done three hours Harris doing half an hour would be the story.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,206

    PB tories hate every single tax increase but yet their lads left public finances in dire straits. Fuck off, you broke it. The money has to come from somewhere and if business owners have to take some money from profits to pay NI then so what. Deal with it.

    Some money from profits to pay NI. Haha. Hahahaaaahaaaaaa. Hahahahahaaaahaaaaaa.

    One of the reasons payroll taxes are so stupid is that they happen profit or no profit. I would rather they increased Corporation tax - it's a stupid tax too, but at least you have to make a notional profit(*) before they steal it.

    If you are running a business in a start-up or expansion phase, you generally haven't got a profit - but payroll taxes still have to be paid - and the greater they are, the slower your expansion, and the more you have to borrow whilst you try and make a go of things. This is a short-term bad effect from changing rates - in the longer term, it will just mean reduced pay for employees, as it's well known that in a steady state without rule changes 100% of the incidence of payroll taxes falls on employees.

    *one of the real problems for small businesses, particularly those which are expanding, is that it's possible to make a paper profit without making a cash profit, then get clobbered for a corp tax bill without having any actual additional cash in the business with which to pay said bill.
  • Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Gets Rogan more attention which he thrives on as does Trump. Two egomanics together.

    Well yeah OK, but what do we think to this as a campaign tactic just over a week out from polling day?

    It's an interesting choice from Team Trump in what I think has been a MUCH better campaign compared to either 2016 or 2020.
    I imagine it was planned a long time ago. A clever move. Would you say Rogans followers are most likely to be Trump than Harris supporters?
    If it was organised a while ago, everyone involved kept very quiet until a few days back. Monday was when the speculation started.

    Rogan’s audience skews male and rural, so theoretically more likely to be Trump votes than Harris voters.

    He does get something totally outrageous like 100m views and downloads, by far the most popular podcast out there. This one will likely set records for a single podcast episode, half the country will have watched it before the election.
    Interesting. I agree with you about the profile of his audience.
    It does feel like the Trump team masterplanned this last few weeks whereas Kamala has been winging it since the kamalagasm

    Nonetheless people are writing off the Dems far too easily. An awful lot of Americans fear and despise Donald Trump and would vote for chairman Mao in preference to him
    Or even Donald Duck.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    There is no quick fix to healthcare just a slog to get on top of the monster.

    Move to an insureance based system
    Take on the BMA
    Use AI
    Train more doctors and nurses
    Start healthcare at primary school with good food and exercise.

    Also encourage employers to provide private healthcare to their staff.

    The biggest problem is that the NHS has the inertia of a fully-laden oil tanker, so there need to be parallel structures created alongside if there’s to be any noticable improvement in parliamentary term timescales. They’re also close to a single monopoly employer for many professions, so increases in numbers of these will need to come from outside the country.
    Even if you have private healthcare the "gatekeeping" of needing GPs for consultant referrals, and going through A&E, can put big delays and access issues in the way of getting to quality healthcare.

    Of course, it means more people get chronically sick, or die.
    Yes the GP ‘gatekeeper’ system is a mess, and often leads people being more sick when they actually see the consultant.

    Given how totally jammed up is the current NHS, I think the only way to clear the backlog is going to be to send people abroad for treatment, perhaps paid for by a limited one-off tax on something. VAT to 25% for one year might raise £30bn, for example. (It raised £160bn last year, but a lot of high-end spending might be deferred if the cut was known to be temporary). Labour should be able to sell “5p for the NHS”, and it will be largely forgotten about by 2029.
    That doesn't work. The easily done stuff for is already being done in the private sector, such as hips, knees and cataracts. Indeed the NHS work being done by private providers is already a third of the private sectors income.:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/oct/25/private-healthcare-boom-fuelled-by-nhs-waiting-lists

    The problem is that much of what is left is people who cannot travel and who have significant co morbidities. Someone on dialysis cannot go to Turkey to get a new hip.

    You are right though that there isn't enough capacity in the NHS, but it needs a permanent solution not a band aid.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,806

    There is no quick fix to healthcare just a slog to get on top of the monster.

    Move to an insureance based system
    Take on the BMA
    Use AI
    Train more doctors and nurses
    Start healthcare at primary school with good food and exercise.

    90% of the population cannot afford health insurance. Many can barely afford car and home insurance.
  • Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Does Beyonce and Willie Nelson win it for Kamala?*

    * Not on PB
    Kamala getting celebrity endorsements is kind if priced in I'd think?

    Trump spurning conventional Presidential debates on MSM to do 3hrs with Joe Rogan on YouTube and Spotify is an interesting choice.

    Have no idea if this will make any difference to the eventual outcome or not.
    Harris had singer Beyoncé Knowles performing on stage with her last night, a good tactic to attract a crowd to a political rally which the Harris campaign has used quite a bit. She’s apparently trying to get Taylor Swift for one appearance next week.

    Trump has had a few country singers at his rallies, but not the A-list pop artists of the Harris campaign.

    Rogan says that Hassis has been invited, is welcome to turn up, and says he just wants to talk to her and she who she is. Trump of course was dismissive of the idea, saying that there’s no way she can talk for so long off script!

    He probably has half a point, it’s a difficult decision for the Democrats to make. Rogan’s not going to let the campaign edit anything or have a room full of advisors passing her notes, and now that Trump has done three hours Harris doing half an hour would be the story.
    Remember when Swift got piled on a few years ago because she didn’t want to condemn Trump and wasn’t interested in making political statements, with the suggestion she was a shy Trumper. How times change when the PR people get involved.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    Sandpit said:

    There is no quick fix to healthcare just a slog to get on top of the monster.

    Move to an insureance based system
    Take on the BMA
    Use AI
    Train more doctors and nurses
    Start healthcare at primary school with good food and exercise.

    Also encourage employers to provide private healthcare to their staff.

    The biggest problem is that the NHS has the inertia of a fully-laden oil tanker, so there need to be parallel structures created alongside if there’s to be any noticable improvement in parliamentary term timescales. They’re also close to a single monopoly employer for many professions, so increases in numbers of these will need to come from outside the country.
    Last year 24 000 new doctors were registered with the GMC. 16 000 were overseas graduates, so we already do recruit heavily overseas.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,043
    Funding for public health, who do many of the things Max PB proposes, was moved to local authorities and then cut to the bone under austerity. It is a familiar pattern of false economies made 2010-24.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Gets Rogan more attention which he thrives on as does Trump. Two egomanics together.

    Well yeah OK, but what do we think to this as a campaign tactic just over a week out from polling day?

    It's an interesting choice from Team Trump in what I think has been a MUCH better campaign compared to either 2016 or 2020.
    I imagine it was planned a long time ago. A clever move. Would you say Rogans followers are most likely to be Trump than Harris supporters?
    If it was organised a while ago, everyone involved kept very quiet until a few days back. Monday was when the speculation started.

    Rogan’s audience skews male and rural, so theoretically more likely to be Trump votes than Harris voters.

    He does get something totally outrageous like 100m views and downloads, by far the most popular podcast out there. This one will likely set records for a single podcast episode, half the country will have watched it before the election.
    Interesting. I agree with you about the profile of his audience.
    It does feel like the Trump team masterplanned this last few weeks whereas Kamala has been winging it since the kamalagasm

    Nonetheless people are writing off the Dems far too easily. An awful lot of Americans fear and despise Donald Trump and would vote for chairman Mao in preference to him
    Or even Donald Duck.
    I can't see how Trump being on Rogan changes a single vote frankly. Although it may help with GOTV.
  • CJohnCJohn Posts: 14
    Leon said:

    CJohn said:

    Japan: population went above 100m at the start of the 70s. Even there was huge pressure on the very densely populated coastal areas.

    Population is now "down" to around 124 million.

    Japan will not run out of people; the population will re-stabilise at a much lower level in a few decades.

    This may upset Japanese nationalist politicians, but will overall be positive for quality of life.

    Japan are a few decades ahead in this transition to a more sustainable population level. We'd do well to learn from them, rather than being caught on an upwards escalator propelled by mass immigration.

    It makes towns like Hida Furukawa very agreeably quiet and tranquil - but it must be melancholy for locals. Their population has HALVED in fifty years and the decline seems to be accelerating

    On the other hand, just now I saw a pair of magnificent raptors down from the Alpine peaks, and as I sit here on my ryokan balcony in the regal sun I can vermillion dragonflies hovering in the golden light

    A world with many fewer humans will be a wilder greener and lovelier world
    Lovely.

    I'm hoping to get over to Okinawa in spring or fall. I lived in Japan as a child and speak Japanese.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    edited October 26

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Does Beyonce and Willie Nelson win it for Kamala?*

    * Not on PB
    Kamala getting celebrity endorsements is kind if priced in I'd think?

    Trump spurning conventional Presidential debates on MSM to do 3hrs with Joe Rogan on YouTube and Spotify is an interesting choice.

    Have no idea if this will make any difference to the eventual outcome or not.
    Harris had singer Beyoncé Knowles performing on stage with her last night, a good tactic to attract a crowd to a political rally which the Harris campaign has used quite a bit. She’s apparently trying to get Taylor Swift for one appearance next week.

    Trump has had a few country singers at his rallies, but not the A-list pop artists of the Harris campaign.

    Rogan says that Hassis has been invited, is welcome to turn up, and says he just wants to talk to her and she who she is. Trump of course was dismissive of the idea, saying that there’s no way she can talk for so long off script!

    He probably has half a point, it’s a difficult decision for the Democrats to make. Rogan’s not going to let the campaign edit anything or have a room full of advisors passing her notes, and now that Trump has done three hours Harris doing half an hour would be the story.
    Remember when Swift got piled on a few years ago because she didn’t want to condemn Trump and wasn’t interested in making political statements, with the suggestion she was a shy Trumper. How times change when the PR people get involved.
    Swift is an interesting one. She’s already said she’s supporting Harris, but I suspect doesn’t want to fully wade into politics as she has a very wide fan base. I’m always reminded of Michael Jordan’s famous quote, when asked to get into politics by I think Clinton, that “conservatives buy sneakers too”.

    TS started her career as a country singer in Nashville, which is a traditionally conservative demographic. She’s probably very middle-of-the-road in her politics.

    As with Rogan, she now has a massive audience which transcends any one demographic.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,948
    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Good question.

    I’ve not watched the whole thing, will probably listen in the car on Monday, but from the clips going around he’s not said anything totally outrageous, which is pretty good effort given it’s nearly three hours long!
    You’re right, I suppose Trump being confirmed as an ahistorical nitwit is no longer outrageous.

    https://x.com/kevinlyfather/status/1849997368277827838?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,804

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Before the election some Tories and Tory commentators not that far away used to delight at the “scorched Earth” they would leave for Labour. The idea was to break things so badly that any incoming administration would have to make unpopular decisions and last one term.

    We might like to remember that when they complain about tax rises.

    That's absolute nonsense.

    It's a nice political attempt at framing, but the trouble is it doesn't wash because firstly it's not true and secondly your party hasn't had the message and action discipline to make it stick.
    Tories are like a spoiled teenager with a hangover, complaining about the noise of someone clearing up the house that their party trashed the night before.

    When it’s your vomit, you don’t get to criticise the cleaner.
    Unless you pretend it wasn't you that smashed the place up.

    I can't remember where, but I read one Conservative commentator musing that when the Conservatives were in office in 2010 satisfaction with the NHS had never been higher, now with Labour in office satisfaction with the NHS is in the toilet.*

    * Factually true of course but conveniently omitting to consider the intervening 14 years of Conservative management of the NHS.
    Amazing how the PBTories have suddenly come out at dawn to defend aforesaid management, like a bat colony with a thunderflash thrown into it. I'm barely awake enough to read never mind post.

    But Bondegezou's point about public health services is one we should all remember. Add to that environmental health and pollution control more generally.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    There is no quick fix to healthcare just a slog to get on top of the monster.

    Move to an insureance based system
    Take on the BMA
    Use AI
    Train more doctors and nurses
    Start healthcare at primary school with good food and exercise.

    Also encourage employers to provide private healthcare to their staff.

    The biggest problem is that the NHS has the inertia of a fully-laden oil tanker, so there need to be parallel structures created alongside if there’s to be any noticable improvement in parliamentary term timescales. They’re also close to a single monopoly employer for many professions, so increases in numbers of these will need to come from outside the country.
    Last year 24 000 new doctors were registered with the GMC. 16 000 were overseas graduates, so we already do recruit heavily overseas.
    That’s an impressive number.

    Do we know how many have retired, taken a career break for family reasons, or moved to part time due to the £100k tax nonesense?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    edited October 26
    If any Englishman here is feeling a bit depressed about our beloved country under this treasonous Labour government, remember: today is Agincourt Day, the Feast of Crispin Crispian

    Which means it’s time to wheel out maybe the greatest ever movie performance of any single Shakespeare soliloquy

    Branagh, doing Crispin

    https://youtu.be/bvFHRNGYfuo?si=__giCifwA-GOs9k7

    TINGLEZ
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Gets Rogan more attention which he thrives on as does Trump. Two egomanics together.

    Well yeah OK, but what do we think to this as a campaign tactic just over a week out from polling day?

    It's an interesting choice from Team Trump in what I think has been a MUCH better campaign compared to either 2016 or 2020.
    I imagine it was planned a long time ago. A clever move. Would you say Rogans followers are most likely to be Trump than Harris supporters?
    If it was organised a while ago, everyone involved kept very quiet until a few days back. Monday was when the speculation started.

    Rogan’s audience skews male and rural, so theoretically more likely to be Trump votes than Harris voters.

    He does get something totally outrageous like 100m views and downloads, by far the most popular podcast out there. This one will likely set records for a single podcast episode, half the country will have watched it before the election.
    Interesting. I agree with you about the profile of his audience.
    It does feel like the Trump team masterplanned this last few weeks whereas Kamala has been winging it since the kamalagasm

    Nonetheless people are writing off the Dems far too easily. An awful lot of Americans fear and despise Donald Trump and would vote for chairman Mao in preference to him
    Or even Donald Duck.
    I can't see how Trump being on Rogan changes a single vote frankly. Although it may help with GOTV.
    That’s an odd perspective. Over 3hrs he talks gently, a bit rambly and (expertly) gives the impression of being a slightly inappropriate uncle. Rather than Hitler. In an historically close election from a polls perspective, it might prove to be quite an important moment.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Sandpit said:

    Swift is an interesting one. She’s already said she’s supporting Harris, but I suspect doesn’t want to fully wade into politics as she has a very wide fan base. I’m always reminded of Michael Jordan’s famous quote, when asked to get into politics by I think Clinton, that “conservatives buy sneakers too”.

    TS started her career as a country singer in Nashville, which is a traditionally conservative demographic. She’s probably very middle-of-the-road in her politics.

    As with Rogan, she now has a massive audience which transcends any one demographic.

    It's featured in the documentary including the debate around alienating fans

    She endorsed a Democrat in Tennessee last time round
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,394
    edited October 26
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Before the election some Tories and Tory commentators not that far away used to delight at the “scorched Earth” they would leave for Labour. The idea was to break things so badly that any incoming administration would have to make unpopular decisions and last one term.

    We might like to remember that when they complain about tax rises.

    That's absolute nonsense.

    It's a nice political attempt at framing, but the trouble is it doesn't wash because firstly it's not true and secondly your party hasn't had the message and action discipline to make it stick.
    Tories are like a spoiled teenager with a hangover, complaining about the noise of someone clearing up the house that their party trashed the night before.

    When it’s your vomit, you don’t get to criticise the cleaner.
    Labour’s like the friend who promises to fix the mess, but spends hours defecating on and rearranging the furniture, and knocking chunks out of the brickwork to hand to their mates. They keep insisting they have a plan, but somehow, the mess just seems to get worse: there’s a suspicious stain on the sofa, the living room is a mess, the house is starting to totter, and there's a cold wind blowing through downstairs.

    If you're holding the mop, maybe focus on cleaning up—not tearing down the building.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,043

    Interesting piece by Max, I'd like to see real food cooking taught in all schools, national cooking/cookery campaigns, and more visits to farmers/farms at all levels of education.

    One thing: I get leaflets through the door every other week from Dominos and PapaJohns, both of which I hate. Yes, they can post what they like - and no doubt this is part of an aggressive marketing campaign - but things like this combined with JustEat and Deliveroo make it very very easy to eat shit.

    How do we make it easier to eat well?

    Do you know who reduced the teaching of cooking in schools in the late 1980s? Margaret Thatcher. Listen to https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b00y50qm
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    ydoethur said:

    It’s funny how the cost of Employer’s NI is terrible but you think that employers are just going to voluntarily pay for their staff to have the benefit of private medical insurance (which is another cost) if they don’t have to?

    There’s no culture of private medical insurance for the masses in this country and that isn’t going to change over night.

    At least some of them do, actually. Including both private schools I worked for.

    They found it cheaper to get their staff treated fast and back on the job than to hire supply for a long period.

    How typical that is I wouldn't know.
    For the same reason most mid to large employers pay for flu vaccines and subsidise gym membership. Meanwhile NI is just a tax on workers, not being paid on dividend, rent or pension income. It’s the main reason why I became disillusioned with Boris and seems like Starmer is falling into the same trap. He can’t win next time win with just the votes of unionised workers and welfare recipients.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    edited October 26

    PB tories hate every single tax increase but yet their lads left public finances in dire straits. Fuck off, you broke it. The money has to come from somewhere and if business owners have to take some money from profits to pay NI then so what. Deal with it.
    That'd be a hike in corporation tax :)
    No it wouldn’t. A payroll tax is just a cost which, everything being equal, reduces profits that would have otherwise been available
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,394

    Interesting piece by Max, I'd like to see real food cooking taught in all schools, national cooking/cookery campaigns, and more visits to farmers/farms at all levels of education.

    One thing: I get leaflets through the door every other week from Dominos and PapaJohns, both of which I hate. Yes, they can post what they like - and no doubt this is part of an aggressive marketing campaign - but things like this combined with JustEat and Deliveroo make it very very easy to eat shit.

    How do we make it easier to eat well?

    Do you know who reduced the teaching of cooking in schools in the late 1980s? Margaret Thatcher. Listen to https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b00y50qm
    Hey, I've got some good news for you: she left office over 33 years ago.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,630
    edited October 26
    moonshine said:

    FPT Mr. Wilderness, add 7p to petrol and you increase the cost of goods being delivered, driving up prices, driving up inflation.

    I think it doesn’t occur to these metro types that run things that outside of their bubble, everyone drives everywhere
    Part of the reason "everyone drives everywhere" is because it's become cheaper to do so in real terms even while the costs of public transport have increased significantly and, in the case of buses, provision of services halved.

    And not everyone drives everywhere. Car ownership and mileage is correlated with higher incomes. Even in rural parts of the country, 20% of households don't have access to one at all and in cities like Liverpool and Newcastle it's up to 40%. The fuel duty freeze has been a regressive intervention in urban and suburban areas.

    Nevertheless, fuel duty is a silly tax because it disincentives the kind of journey we want people to use cars for - longer ones in rural areas. I'd replace it entirely with some sort of congestion charging.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    theProle said:

    PB tories hate every single tax increase but yet their lads left public finances in dire straits. Fuck off, you broke it. The money has to come from somewhere and if business owners have to take some money from profits to pay NI then so what. Deal with it.

    Some money from profits to pay NI. Haha. Hahahaaaahaaaaaa. Hahahahahaaaahaaaaaa.

    One of the reasons payroll taxes are so stupid is that they happen profit or no profit. I would rather they increased Corporation tax - it's a stupid tax too, but at least you have to make a notional profit(*) before they steal it.

    If you are running a business in a start-up or expansion phase, you generally haven't got a profit - but payroll taxes still have to be paid - and the greater they are, the slower your expansion, and the more you have to borrow whilst you try and make a go of things. This is a short-term bad effect from changing rates - in the longer term, it will just mean reduced pay for employees, as it's well known that in a steady state without rule changes 100% of the incidence of payroll taxes falls on employees.

    *one of the real problems for small businesses, particularly those which are expanding, is that it's possible to make a paper profit without making a cash profit, then get clobbered for a corp tax bill without having any actual additional cash in the business with which to pay said bill.
    I am sorry but this just is wrong. Yes on a micro level you might not increase employee pay because of increased payroll costs but on a macro level if the market rate for your employees increases you have a choice to pay the market rate or lose employees/choice of employees. This is just supply and demand in a market economy.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,274
    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Gets Rogan more attention which he thrives on as does Trump. Two egomanics together.

    Well yeah OK, but what do we think to this as a campaign tactic just over a week out from polling day?

    It's an interesting choice from Team Trump in what I think has been a MUCH better campaign compared to either 2016 or 2020.
    I imagine it was planned a long time ago. A clever move. Would you say Rogans followers are most likely to be Trump than Harris supporters?
    If it was organised a while ago, everyone involved kept very quiet until a few days back. Monday was when the speculation started.

    Rogan’s audience skews male and rural, so theoretically more likely to be Trump votes than Harris voters.

    He does get something totally outrageous like 100m views and downloads, by far the most popular podcast out there. This one will likely set records for a single podcast episode, half the country will have watched it before the election.
    Interesting. I agree with you about the profile of his audience.
    It does feel like the Trump team masterplanned this last few weeks whereas Kamala has been winging it since the kamalagasm

    Nonetheless people are writing off the Dems far too easily. An awful lot of Americans fear and despise Donald Trump and would vote for chairman Mao in preference to him
    Or even Donald Duck.
    I can't see how Trump being on Rogan changes a single vote frankly. Although it may help with GOTV.
    That’s an odd perspective. Over 3hrs he talks gently, a bit rambly and (expertly) gives the impression of being a slightly inappropriate uncle. Rather than Hitler. In an historically close election from a polls perspective, it might prove to be quite an important moment.
    Maybe Trumps suggestion he’d get rid of income taxes might swing a few votes for the economically illiterate . Rogan failed to ask him how the government would fund things .
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,948
    Leon said:

    If any Englishman here is feeling a bit depressed about our beloved country under this treasonous Labour government, remember: today is Agincourt Day, the Feast of Crispin Crispian

    Which means it’s time to wheel out maybe the greatest ever movie performance of any single Shakespeare soliloquy

    Branagh, doing Crispin

    https://youtu.be/bvFHRNGYfuo?si=__giCifwA-GOs9k7

    TINGLEZ

    As for the traitors that voted in this treasonous Labour government..
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,189
    It's not just the NHS - look at this article from a few days ago
    https://www.dw.com/en/how-to-fix-germanys-ailing-health-care-system/a-69236520
    https://p.dw.com/p/4gVa4


    'Germany has the highest number of hospital beds per capita in the European Union (7.9 beds per 1,000 inhabitants — EU average: 5.3) but maintaining these is expensive. According to Lauterbach, this has left many hospitals on the brink of bankruptcy. The result is that patients are being kept in hospital unnecessarily so hospitals can charge health insurers extra money — which in turn drives up the whole country's health costs and insurance contributions.

    The reform means that hospitals will no longer be paid per treatment — instead, they will get a guaranteed income for making certain services available. This, it is hoped, will alleviate the financial pressure on hospitals to pack in as many operations and treatments as they can, even if they are poorly qualified to carry them out.

    This measure is supposed to ensure that patients needing complex treatments are referred to specialists earlier. This, according to the Health Ministry, will reduce health costs in the long run, as patients stand a better chance of being cured and are less likely to fall victim to mistakes, as hospital staff will be less rushed and overworked. Lauterbach has claimed this reform will save tens of thousands of lives a year.

    "The hospital reform is right and important," Dirk Heinrich, an ear-nose-throat specialist and chairman of the doctors' association Virchowbund, told DW. "We do have too much in-patient care, but what is happening now is way too little. Reforming the hospitals without a comprehensive outpatient treatment reform, and without emergency care reform, won't make a difference."

    Eugen Brysch, chairman of patients' protection organization Deutsche Stiftung Patientenschutz was also skeptical. "In the field of outpatient medical care, elderly, chronically ill and care-dependent people will find it almost impossible to find a new doctor," he said.




    "We have such an inefficient system, in no other country in Western Europe is life expectancy lower than in Germany," Lauterbach said, arguing that "centralization will improve the quality of care."'
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,043

    Interesting piece by Max, I'd like to see real food cooking taught in all schools, national cooking/cookery campaigns, and more visits to farmers/farms at all levels of education.

    One thing: I get leaflets through the door every other week from Dominos and PapaJohns, both of which I hate. Yes, they can post what they like - and no doubt this is part of an aggressive marketing campaign - but things like this combined with JustEat and Deliveroo make it very very easy to eat shit.

    How do we make it easier to eat well?

    Do you know who reduced the teaching of cooking in schools in the late 1980s? Margaret Thatcher. Listen to https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b00y50qm
    Hey, I've got some good news for you: she left office over 33 years ago.
    Yes, Casino. Notice how I typed “in the late 1980s”. I’m aware that the late 1980s is a fair while ago. I was providing some historical background.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    edited October 26
    Thanks for an interesting header @maxh

    I agree that there needs to be a much more positive approach to preventative care, but am sceptical that it will make the difference needed. The rise in obesity and diabetes etc is a worldwide phenomenon, and so is the decline in mortality from cardiac disease. The rest of the world is gorging on junk food, skiving exercise and hoping to jab themselves thin too. We are 55th of the 193 countries listed here for obesity rates: https://data.worldobesity.org/rankings/

    As I pointed out in my header on the 70th Birthday of the NHS, insurance systems whether run by states or corporations are essentially re-distributive, shifting money from young healthy people to older and unhealthy people. Unless a lot of people are left without cover, the problem remains the same.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/07/01/three-score-and-ten-has-the-nhs-reached-the-end-of-its-natural-life/

    I think my proposal to untangle the knot to meet consumer demand, while maintaining a service for everyone of individual SIPP accounts ringfenced for health and social care is a much better one than insurance. It would be reasonable to be able to pay for gym memberships* etc from this too, but would give individual citizens a pot to pay for private healthcare and generate a better and more consumer responsive private medical system in this country.

    *not that I am convinced gyms are the answer. Far better is exercise designed into life for active travel, so walking and cycling are the default.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    nico679 said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Gets Rogan more attention which he thrives on as does Trump. Two egomanics together.

    Well yeah OK, but what do we think to this as a campaign tactic just over a week out from polling day?

    It's an interesting choice from Team Trump in what I think has been a MUCH better campaign compared to either 2016 or 2020.
    I imagine it was planned a long time ago. A clever move. Would you say Rogans followers are most likely to be Trump than Harris supporters?
    If it was organised a while ago, everyone involved kept very quiet until a few days back. Monday was when the speculation started.

    Rogan’s audience skews male and rural, so theoretically more likely to be Trump votes than Harris voters.

    He does get something totally outrageous like 100m views and downloads, by far the most popular podcast out there. This one will likely set records for a single podcast episode, half the country will have watched it before the election.
    Interesting. I agree with you about the profile of his audience.
    It does feel like the Trump team masterplanned this last few weeks whereas Kamala has been winging it since the kamalagasm

    Nonetheless people are writing off the Dems far too easily. An awful lot of Americans fear and despise Donald Trump and would vote for chairman Mao in preference to him
    Or even Donald Duck.
    I can't see how Trump being on Rogan changes a single vote frankly. Although it may help with GOTV.
    That’s an odd perspective. Over 3hrs he talks gently, a bit rambly and (expertly) gives the impression of being a slightly inappropriate uncle. Rather than Hitler. In an historically close election from a polls perspective, it might prove to be quite an important moment.
    Maybe Trumps suggestion he’d get rid of income taxes might swing a few votes for the economically illiterate . Rogan failed to ask him how the government would fund things .
    His plan AIUI is to increase tarrifs on imports, and reduce Federal income taxes by a similar amount, such that most Americans would pay no Federal income taxes at all.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    Leon said:

    If any Englishman here is feeling a bit depressed about our beloved country under this treasonous Labour government, remember: today is Agincourt Day, the Feast of Crispin Crispian

    Which means it’s time to wheel out maybe the greatest ever movie performance of any single Shakespeare soliloquy

    Branagh, doing Crispin

    https://youtu.be/bvFHRNGYfuo?si=__giCifwA-GOs9k7

    TINGLEZ

    As for the traitors that voted in this treasonous Labour government..
    “We few, we happy few, we Band of Brothers”

    FUCKING IMMENSE. And Branagh delivers it so well. And you too can be proud, there were a few Scotsmen in that noble English army at Agincourt
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261
    Is Meghan still doing her podcast on Spotify?

    Kamala could go on that? :D
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,015

    Sandpit said:

    FPT Mr. Wilderness, add 7p to petrol and you increase the cost of goods being delivered, driving up prices, driving up inflation.

    Not only does fuel duty feed into inflation like nothing else government could do bar printing trillions, it’s also a declining revenue stream thanks to increases in engine efficiency and more people buying electric vehicles.

    The problem is that the very last users of electric vehicles are going to be long-distance freight. Which is also why HS2 needs to be completed yesterday, as it frees up freight paths on the WC main line so that freight going from Southampton and Felixstowe heading for the midlands and North can do most of the journey by rail.
    The tories had 14 years to build HS2 and other schemes such as this but instead spent it wanking themselves off over Brexit. They broke it.
    Of your rather rude posts this morning, that's actually quite close to the mark.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,043
    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sandpit said:

    4m views in four hours, just on Youtube, for Joe Rogan’s interview with Donald Trump.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY

    He has also invited Kamala Harris to sit down with him.

    Does this interview win Trump the Presidency?
    Gets Rogan more attention which he thrives on as does Trump. Two egomanics together.

    Well yeah OK, but what do we think to this as a campaign tactic just over a week out from polling day?

    It's an interesting choice from Team Trump in what I think has been a MUCH better campaign compared to either 2016 or 2020.
    I imagine it was planned a long time ago. A clever move. Would you say Rogans followers are most likely to be Trump than Harris supporters?
    If it was organised a while ago, everyone involved kept very quiet until a few days back. Monday was when the speculation started.

    Rogan’s audience skews male and rural, so theoretically more likely to be Trump votes than Harris voters.

    He does get something totally outrageous like 100m views and downloads, by far the most popular podcast out there. This one will likely set records for a single podcast episode, half the country will have watched it before the election.
    Interesting. I agree with you about the profile of his audience.
    It does feel like the Trump team masterplanned this last few weeks whereas Kamala has been winging it since the kamalagasm

    Nonetheless people are writing off the Dems far too easily. An awful lot of Americans fear and despise Donald Trump and would vote for chairman Mao in preference to him
    Or even Donald Duck.
    I can't see how Trump being on Rogan changes a single vote frankly. Although it may help with GOTV.
    That’s an odd perspective. Over 3hrs he talks gently, a bit rambly and (expertly) gives the impression of being a slightly inappropriate uncle. Rather than Hitler. In an historically close election from a polls perspective, it might prove to be quite an important moment.
    Maybe Trumps suggestion he’d get rid of income taxes might swing a few votes for the economically illiterate . Rogan failed to ask him how the government would fund things .
    His plan AIUI is to increase tarrifs on imports, and reduce Federal income taxes by a similar amount, such that most Americans would pay no Federal income taxes at all.
    This would turbocharge inflation with all imports massively increasing in price. Consumers would switch to domestically produced items where possible, so you’d have to increase tariffs even more to raise enough revenue. It would be like imposing sanctions on yourself.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,394

    theProle said:

    PB tories hate every single tax increase but yet their lads left public finances in dire straits. Fuck off, you broke it. The money has to come from somewhere and if business owners have to take some money from profits to pay NI then so what. Deal with it.

    Some money from profits to pay NI. Haha. Hahahaaaahaaaaaa. Hahahahahaaaahaaaaaa.

    One of the reasons payroll taxes are so stupid is that they happen profit or no profit. I would rather they increased Corporation tax - it's a stupid tax too, but at least you have to make a notional profit(*) before they steal it.

    If you are running a business in a start-up or expansion phase, you generally haven't got a profit - but payroll taxes still have to be paid - and the greater they are, the slower your expansion, and the more you have to borrow whilst you try and make a go of things. This is a short-term bad effect from changing rates - in the longer term, it will just mean reduced pay for employees, as it's well known that in a steady state without rule changes 100% of the incidence of payroll taxes falls on employees.

    *one of the real problems for small businesses, particularly those which are expanding, is that it's possible to make a paper profit without making a cash profit, then get clobbered for a corp tax bill without having any actual additional cash in the business with which to pay said bill.
    I am sorry but this just is wrong. Yes on a micro level you might not increase employee pay because of increased payroll costs but on a macro level if the market rate for your employees increases you have a choice to pay the market rate or lose employees/choice of employees. This is just supply and demand in a market economy.
    And, they will lose employees or freeze pay.

    The other thing they'll probably do is lobby the government to increase immigration and the supply of skilled workers, who might be more willing to take lower salaries.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615

    Leon said:

    If any Englishman here is feeling a bit depressed about our beloved country under this treasonous Labour government, remember: today is Agincourt Day, the Feast of Crispin Crispian

    Which means it’s time to wheel out maybe the greatest ever movie performance of any single Shakespeare soliloquy

    Branagh, doing Crispin

    https://youtu.be/bvFHRNGYfuo?si=__giCifwA-GOs9k7

    TINGLEZ

    As for the traitors that voted in this treasonous Labour government..
    Nearly as bad as the plastic patriots that run down the country from abroad.
This discussion has been closed.