politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Populus: LAB has 31 percent lead amongst public sector workers
The above finding from today’s Popuus online poll is not surprsing particuarly as public sector worker have been facing many of the impacts of the coalition’s efforts to reduce the deficit.
I have pointed it out before, but many of the LD 2010 -> Lab switchers are to the left of Labour, and I find it unlikely they would vote LD again post-coalition. Public sector workers are disproportionately leftist and now that vote is just returning to Labour now that the LDs are not seen as a viable alternative for leftist voters.
Why wouldn't they be? We roughly know where we stand with the Coalition government, and Labour is traditionally the party of the workers. We'll see just how well that stacks up next year, under PM Milliband. I think there'll be some disappointment.
James Kirkup has written an interesting article on the Chancellor's strategy on taxes. He essentially points out the rather low level of average wages in some very important marginals.
The Tories have missed a huge opportunity here. Instead of actually trying to win votes, some Tories seem bizarrely to actively antagonise this group.
It's ed who is missing an opportunity. Blair might try to outflank Osborne by promising to raise the 40bp rate (perhaps at the same time as introducing more rich clobbering measures). Ed would never do that.
The Tories have missed a huge opportunity here. Instead of actually trying to win votes, some Tories seem bizarrely to actively antagonise this group.
It's ed who is missing an opportunity. Blair might try to outflank Osborne by promising to raise the 40bp rate (perhaps at the same time as introducing more rich clobbering measures). Ed would never do that.
FPT: Wonderful post by Nick Palmer at the end of the previous thread:
Agree too. My eyes were opened when I tried to transfer my RBS bank account from London to my local branch in Nottingham - same name, same account, just a change of home branch. Everyone there knew me as the local MP, but they required a four-page form and copious documentation and urged me kindly not to bother. I took their advice.
What a pity his eyes weren't opened a bit earlier, when he was a legislator at the time when this garbage was put on our statute books.
Years ago when I lived in France for a while I was gobsmacked by the insane bureaucracy, which at that time was completely unknown in the UK. New Labour, supported by Nick's votes in parliament, fixed that good'n'proper.
FPT: Wonderful post by Nick Palmer at the end of the previous thread:
Agree too. My eyes were opened when I tried to transfer my RBS bank account from London to my local branch in Nottingham - same name, same account, just a change of home branch. Everyone there knew me as the local MP, but they required a four-page form and copious documentation and urged me kindly not to bother. I took their advice.
What a pity his eyes weren't opened a bit earlier, when he was a legislator at the time when this garbage was put on our statute books.
Years ago when I lived in France for a while I was gobsmacked by the insane bureaucracy, which at that time was completely unknown in the UK. New Labour, supported by Nick's votes in parliament, fixed that good'n'proper.
And yet the coalition leaves it in place. Any idea why ? I'd have thought cutting banks' costs from regulatory burden might have been worthwhile.
What a shock those public sector workers have coming, if, God forbid, they get the Labour government they want, since departmental cuts under Labour would have to be deeper to compensate for increased borrowing costs and Labour's welfare wastefulness.
And yet the coalition leaves it in place. Any idea why ? I'd have thought cutting banks' costs from regulatory burden might have been worthwhile.
I agree, I said on the previous thread that I was mystified as to why they haven't swept most of this nonsense away. Is it some EU thing Blair and Brown signed us up to?
And yet the coalition leaves it in place. Any idea why ? I'd have thought cutting banks' costs from regulatory burden might have been worthwhile.
I agree, I said on the previous thread that I was mystified as to why they haven't swept most of this nonsense away. Is it some EU thing Blair and Brown signed us up to?
Because reducing regulation on bankers wouldn't play well in the press just now.
Add they would then be blamed for any future scandals.
And yet the coalition leaves it in place. Any idea why ? I'd have thought cutting banks' costs from regulatory burden might have been worthwhile.
I agree, I said on the previous thread that I was mystified as to why they haven't swept most of this nonsense away. Is it some EU thing Blair and Brown signed us up to?
dunno. I suspect it's some bollocks relating to money laundering or pretending to stop terrorism. I have to go through two batches of Know Your Customer this week even though I bank with one of them already. But it's as you say the law abiding folk get inconvenienced and the criminals don't notice the difference.
Because reducing regulation on bankers wouldn't play well in the press just now.
Add they would then be blamed for any future scandals.
Sad, but politicians love the ratchet effect
Fair point, but even if they don't want to touch banking regulation, they could exempt solicitors from the garbage, except when there is a genuine possibility of money laundering (which I would guess is less than 1% of the cases solicitors deal with).
IMO Ed Miliband was always going to go down extremely badly with this age group. He just looks and seems too young and inexperienced from their point of view I think, especially when it comes to things like being in charge of the nation's nuclear weapons. Although Cameron is only three years older, he somehow seems a lot more mature by comparison.
FPT: Wonderful post by Nick Palmer at the end of the previous thread:
Agree too. My eyes were opened when I tried to transfer my RBS bank account from London to my local branch in Nottingham - same name, same account, just a change of home branch. Everyone there knew me as the local MP, but they required a four-page form and copious documentation and urged me kindly not to bother. I took their advice.
What a pity his eyes weren't opened a bit earlier, when he was a legislator at the time when this garbage was put on our statute books.
Years ago when I lived in France for a while I was gobsmacked by the insane bureaucracy, which at that time was completely unknown in the UK. New Labour, supported by Nick's votes in parliament, fixed that good'n'proper.
And yet the coalition leaves it in place. Any idea why ? I'd have thought cutting banks' costs from regulatory burden might have been worthwhile.
If they got rid of the pretend anti money laundering system someone would ask how they're going to go about it for real and they don't want to do anything for real as London has become the world centre of money laundering.
FPT: Wonderful post by Nick Palmer at the end of the previous thread:
Agree too. My eyes were opened when I tried to transfer my RBS bank account from London to my local branch in Nottingham - same name, same account, just a change of home branch. Everyone there knew me as the local MP, but they required a four-page form and copious documentation and urged me kindly not to bother. I took their advice.
What a pity his eyes weren't opened a bit earlier, when he was a legislator at the time when this garbage was put on our statute books.
Years ago when I lived in France for a while I was gobsmacked by the insane bureaucracy, which at that time was completely unknown in the UK. New Labour, supported by Nick's votes in parliament, fixed that good'n'proper.
And yet the coalition leaves it in place. Any idea why ? I'd have thought cutting banks' costs from regulatory burden might have been worthwhile.
If they got rid of the pretend anti money laundering system someone would ask how they're going to go about it for real and they don't want to do anything for real as London has become the world centre of money laundering.
With the international gaze focussed on Ukraine and the draft UNHRC resolution against Sri Lanka looking very tame, the regime continues to put two fingers up to the international community.
The international community's response: Nothing - we'll soon see the Sri Lankan cricket team (who are basically a propaganda instrument of the Sri Lankan Government) arrive to these shores. And the War Criminal in chief (M. Rajapakse) will have a prominent position during the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow.
IMO Ed Miliband was always going to go down extremely badly with this age group. He just looks and seems too young and inexperienced from their point of view I think, especially when it comes to things like being in charge of the nation's nuclear weapons. Although Cameron is only three years older, he somehow seems a lot more mature by comparison.
Re bank impossible forms. I was the treasurer of our Cricket Club - I am still the cheque signer so the treasurer gets me to sign a pile of blank cheques every meeting!
My contacts in local authorities all tell me that they expect the financial settlement for 2015-16 to be brutal irrespective of whoever is in Government. One authority I know has for example made over £30 million in internal savings (sounds a lot but their Budget is £1.5 billion per annum) but all of that has been taken up by reductions in central Government grant so the huge programme of reductions they went through before 2010 and the re-organisations since have got them nowhere.
In addition, additional responsibilities in public health and increasing pressure on services for both vulnerable children and adults means the authority is struggling to hold the current line.
This Authority has sought to give itself a future non-Government income stream by investing in commercial property and seeking to live off the rental yield.
FPT: Wonderful post by Nick Palmer at the end of the previous thread:
Agree too. My eyes were opened when I tried to transfer my RBS bank account from London to my local branch in Nottingham - same name, same account, just a change of home branch. Everyone there knew me as the local MP, but they required a four-page form and copious documentation and urged me kindly not to bother. I took their advice.
What a pity his eyes weren't opened a bit earlier, when he was a legislator at the time when this garbage was put on our statute books.
Years ago when I lived in France for a while I was gobsmacked by the insane bureaucracy, which at that time was completely unknown in the UK. New Labour, supported by Nick's votes in parliament, fixed that good'n'proper.
And yet the coalition leaves it in place. Any idea why ? I'd have thought cutting banks' costs from regulatory burden might have been worthwhile.
If they got rid of the pretend anti money laundering system someone would ask how they're going to go about it for real and they don't want to do anything for real as London has become the world centre of money laundering.
Evidence?
Are you saying there's no criminality in the world's largest financial centre ? I'd have thought some of the recent scandals such as LIBOR and rate fixing might have indicated that there is.
And Mr J does have a point, it seems a bit rich banks asking customers to be squeaky clean when the biggest problem appear to be other banks laundering money for mexican drug cartels or pariah governments.
And yet the coalition leaves it in place. Any idea why ? I'd have thought cutting banks' costs from regulatory burden might have been worthwhile.
I agree, I said on the previous thread that I was mystified as to why they haven't swept most of this nonsense away. Is it some EU thing Blair and Brown signed us up to?
dunno. I suspect it's some bollocks relating to money laundering or pretending to stop terrorism. I have to go through two batches of Know Your Customer this week even though I bank with one of them already. But it's as you say the law abiding folk get inconvenienced and the criminals don't notice the difference.
Banks never seem to give out £50 notes either. Is that some anti-crime policy too?
And yet the coalition leaves it in place. Any idea why ? I'd have thought cutting banks' costs from regulatory burden might have been worthwhile.
I agree, I said on the previous thread that I was mystified as to why they haven't swept most of this nonsense away. Is it some EU thing Blair and Brown signed us up to?
dunno. I suspect it's some bollocks relating to money laundering or pretending to stop terrorism. I have to go through two batches of Know Your Customer this week even though I bank with one of them already. But it's as you say the law abiding folk get inconvenienced and the criminals don't notice the difference.
Banks never seem to give out £50 notes either. Is that some anti-crime policy too?
No just stupidity. Every major economy in the world appears to be able to cope with high denomination notes - Scotland and NI have £100 notes. England for some reason appears stuck circa 1879.
If Dave wanted to leave his mark on the nation he should have brought in a £100 and £200 note.
Incidentally we are seeing another good example of the hypocrisy of the left in relation to South America. Oddly - I can't think why - there has been a deafening silence about Venezuela.
FPT: Wonderful post by Nick Palmer at the end of the previous thread:
Agree too. My eyes were opened when I tried to transfer my RBS bank account from London to my local branch in Nottingham - same name, same account, just a change of home branch. Everyone there knew me as the local MP, but they required a four-page form and copious documentation and urged me kindly not to bother. I took their advice.
What a pity his eyes weren't opened a bit earlier, when he was a legislator at the time when this garbage was put on our statute books.
Years ago when I lived in France for a while I was gobsmacked by the insane bureaucracy, which at that time was completely unknown in the UK. New Labour, supported by Nick's votes in parliament, fixed that good'n'proper.
And yet the coalition leaves it in place. Any idea why ? I'd have thought cutting banks' costs from regulatory burden might have been worthwhile.
If they got rid of the pretend anti money laundering system someone would ask how they're going to go about it for real and they don't want to do anything for real as London has become the world centre of money laundering.
There were a few like Tony Benn - they don't see the faults of those they admire - an almost childlike trait.
Many years ago, I told my son when when he was about five that "Daddies can't be naughty." He soon grew out of that but a few don't, and the majority grow up to be politicians who always know everything.
Was his hatred of capitalist society so great that he could have tolerated all the anti democratic effects of its alternative, communism? The camps, the oppression, the secret police, the famines? Ever hear him talk about capitalism?
Tony Benn was posh ... and barmy. But he probably meant well.
#
Would you say the same if he expressed consistent admiration for Hitler? Alan Clarke the Tory said some dodgy things about Hitler, and the Left was correct to pull up some of his fans, on the score.
But Benn is a much bigger, more important figure yet there is silence on his dangerous moral stupidity. Tsk.
Benn is an historically important figure for one reason: he almost destroyed the Labour party. In terms of access to real power Benn and Clark were on a par, weren't they?
Mrs T did far more damage by arming the Khmer Rouge than Benn ever did in lionising Mao. Both were horribly wrong, of course.
In Just William there's a reason the girly swots are girly and the spotty oiks are spotty.
I think eggheads are generally late developers so they get bullied at school by early puberty meatheads and that makes a lot of them bitter towards their own culture and want to trash it in various ways.
"Was his hatred of capitalist society so great that he could have tolerated all the anti democratic effects of its alternative, communism?"
For many ... they can. Ed's Dad may have been among them. You either ignore the faults or you blame someone else for them. I suspect Mrs T was well aware of Pinochet's faults because she was a realist. Michael Foot and Tony Benn were just barmy.
Wikipedia is bloody amazing. Sky News were just reporting that Mick Jagger's girlfriend L'Wren Scott had committed suicide. I've never heard of her, so I googled her name, and Wiki had her as dead, updated about the same time as Sky were reporting it.
Incidentally we are seeing another good example of the hypocrisy of the left in relation to South America. Oddly - I can't think why - there has been a deafening silence about Venezuela.
I have a fair few posts on FB from a couple of friends of mine, linking to articles stating that Venezuela is not as bas as people say, that images are faked, that the riots are caused by the opposition (well, yes), and that everything would be fine if we were more like them.
Was his hatred of capitalist society so great that he could have tolerated all the anti democratic effects of its alternative, communism? The camps, the oppression, the secret police, the famines? Ever hear him talk about capitalism?
My feeling is yes, absolutely.
Benn was always a passionate advocate of democratic transformation through the ballot box. It was about the only thing he was absolutely right about.
Benn is an historically important figure for one reason: he almost destroyed the Labour party. In terms of access to real power Benn and Clark were on a par, weren't they?
Only if you airbrush out the facts that Benn was a Cabinet Minister in two separate Labour governments and Chairman of the Labour Party, whereas Alan Clarke was (briefly) a junior minister.
Wikipedia is bloody amazing. Sky News were just reporting that Mick Jagger's girlfriend L'Wren Scott had committed suicide. I've never heard of her, so I googled her name, and Wiki had her as dead, updated about the same time as Sky were reporting it.
Benn is an historically important figure for one reason: he almost destroyed the Labour party. In terms of access to real power Benn and Clark were on a par, weren't they?
Only if you airbrush out the facts that Benn was a Cabinet Minister in two separate Labour governments and Chairman of the Labour Party, whereas Alan Clarke was (briefly) a junior minister.
My mistake, I thought Clark had been in the cabinet too.
Incidentally we are seeing another good example of the hypocrisy of the left in relation to South America. Oddly - I can't think why - there has been a deafening silence about Venezuela.
I have a fair few posts on FB from a couple of friends of mine, linking to articles stating that Venezuela is not as bas as people say, that images are faked, that the riots are caused by the opposition (well, yes), and that everything would be fine if we were more like them.
Incidentally we are seeing another good example of the hypocrisy of the left in relation to South America. Oddly - I can't think why - there has been a deafening silence about Venezuela.
I have a fair few posts on FB from a couple of friends of mine, linking to articles stating that Venezuela is not as bas as people say, that images are faked, that the riots are caused by the opposition (well, yes), and that everything would be fine if we were more like them.
My mistake, I thought Clark had been in the cabinet too.
His biggest claim to fame (apart from the fabulous diaries) is that he is the only Member of Parliament to have been accused in the House of Commons of being drunk at the dispatch box!
Incidentally we are seeing another good example of the hypocrisy of the left in relation to South America. Oddly - I can't think why - there has been a deafening silence about Venezuela.
I have a fair few posts on FB from a couple of friends of mine, linking to articles stating that Venezuela is not as bas as people say, that images are faked, that the riots are caused by the opposition (well, yes), and that everything would be fine if we were more like them.
It's surely clear to all that Mrs Thatcher is responsible for the present chaos in Venezuela. Somehow.
Heh, yes. Actually, if you want to see one of them spit with anger, just say anything - however trivial - positive about Thatcher. He becomes positively apoplectic. And yes, he probable make a link back to her.
He's an intelligent man, a skilled coder, from a firmly middle-class background, who married a firmly middle-class wife whose father was high-up in the military. But they both live in semi-Hippiedom and rage against the background they were raised in. Despite living a middle-class lifestyle that isn't remotely disguised by their thin veneer of pretentious hippiedom.
Blooming hypocrites. And to top it all off, they're vegan ...
Oh and the Communists did help in forestalling the Nationalists taking over Hong Kong as the Japanese retreated. Although they would have liked to take over HK themselves, they felt it was better that the British retake it than let Chiang capture the colony.
Incidentally we are seeing another good example of the hypocrisy of the left in relation to South America. Oddly - I can't think why - there has been a deafening silence about Venezuela.
I have a fair few posts on FB from a couple of friends of mine, linking to articles stating that Venezuela is not as bas as people say, that images are faked, that the riots are caused by the opposition (well, yes), and that everything would be fine if we were more like them.
It's surely clear to all that Mrs Thatcher is responsible for the present chaos in Venezuela. Somehow.
Heh, yes. Actually, if you want to see one of them spit with anger, just say anything - however trivial - positive about Thatcher. He becomes positively apoplectic. And yes, he probable make a link back to her.
He's an intelligent man, a skilled coder, from a firmly middle-class background, who married a firmly middle-class wife whose father was high-up in the military. But they both live in semi-Hippiedom and rage against the background they were raised in. Despite living a middle-class lifestyle that isn't remotely disguised by their thin veneer of pretentious hippiedom.
Blooming hypocrites. And to top it all off, they're vegan ...
;-)
Do your friends know that you are so fond of them?
Oh and the Communists did help in forestalling the Nationalists taking over Hong Kong as the Japanese retreated. Although they would have liked to take over HK themselves, they felt it was better that the British retake it than let Chiang capturet the colony.
I read a fascinating history of post WWII China - the Americans were very hung-ho to back the Nationalists, the British, who had been around longer and possibly had a better sense of which way the wind was blowing said 'hang on a mo, lets hedge our bets' - seeing their interest as being on 'the winning side'. The Americans were shortly engulfed in 'why they lost China'......while the British held on to Hong Kong for another half a century......
I don't recall Mao helping us in a war against his neighbour or murdering millions?
Oh, he was right wing - evil bastard!
Millions or thousands, I wouldn't thought it made a difference, but obvioulsy it does for you.
Neither were good men - but you equated a right wing murderer of thousands (1,200-3,200) with a left wing murderer of (around forty) millions....
Do you admire Churchill?
Can Churchill be blamed for the deaths of roughly 3 million Indians during the Bengal famine of 1943?
Churchill's role in the Bengal famine is disputed - Provincial Indian governments also had a role. However, like Pinochet, Churchill was voted out of office.....unlike Mao.....
Incidentally we are seeing another good example of the hypocrisy of the left in relation to South America. Oddly - I can't think why - there has been a deafening silence about Venezuela.
I have a fair few posts on FB from a couple of friends of mine, linking to articles stating that Venezuela is not as bas as people say, that images are faked, that the riots are caused by the opposition (well, yes), and that everything would be fine if we were more like them.
It's surely clear to all that Mrs Thatcher is responsible for the present chaos in Venezuela. Somehow.
Heh, yes. Actually, if you want to see one of them spit with anger, just say anything - however trivial - positive about Thatcher. He becomes positively apoplectic. And yes, he probable make a link back to her.
He's an intelligent man, a skilled coder, from a firmly middle-class background, who married a firmly middle-class wife whose father was high-up in the military. But they both live in semi-Hippiedom and rage against the background they were raised in. Despite living a middle-class lifestyle that isn't remotely disguised by their thin veneer of pretentious hippiedom.
Blooming hypocrites. And to top it all off, they're vegan ...
;-)
Do your friends know that you are so fond of them?
We laugh about it frequently. You should hear what they say about me when they're flapping their ten-foot wide blooming paper peace dove on some protest or other. ;-)
It's one of the tricks of civilisation: to be able to disagree with someone's views, but to remain friendly with them. Just as long as they don't serve me their nut roast in baked courgette monstrosity again. ;-)
Should GO cut taxes to bribe the electorate as having a Con govt with these tax cuts will still mean a lower deficit and saner finances than if Labour get in ?
a bribe to save the economy from 5 years of Labour ?
I don't recall Mao helping us in a war against his neighbour or murdering millions?
Oh, he was right wing - evil bastard!
Millions or thousands, I wouldn't thought it made a difference, but obvioulsy it does for you.
Neither were good men - but you equated a right wing murderer of thousands (1,200-3,200) with a left wing murderer of (around forty) millions....
Do you admire Churchill?
Can Churchill be blamed for the deaths of roughly 3 million Indians during the Bengal famine of 1943?
Churchill's role in the Bengal famine is disputed - Provincial Indian governments also had a role. However, like Pinochet, Churchill was voted out of office.....unlike Mao.....
Bengal bore the brunt of the gathering disaster. At least 1.5 million died as a direct result of the famine which began at the end of 1942 and last all through the following year. A similar number again are estimated to have perished through disease - cholera, malaria and smallpox - because they were so malnourished that they had no resistance. Churchill, already furious with India, refused to interfere with the shipping programme to bring relief. Only when Field Marshall Wavell was made viceroy in September 1943 did the government of India begin to get a firm grip on the problem by using troops to distribute food reserves. Wavell made himself even more unpopular with Churchill by pursuing this policy. The whole episode was probably the most shameful in the history of the British Raj. If nothing else, it completely undermined the imperialist argument that British rule protected the poor of India from the rich.
- Antony Beevor, "The Second World War", Phoenix Books (2013).
I don't recall Mao helping us in a war against his neighbour or murdering millions?
Oh, he was right wing - evil bastard!
Millions or thousands, I wouldn't thought it made a difference, but obvioulsy it does for you.
Neither were good men - but you equated a right wing murderer of thousands (1,200-3,200) with a left wing murderer of (around forty) millions....
Do you admire Churchill?
Can Churchill be blamed for the deaths of roughly 3 million Indians during the Bengal famine of 1943?
Churchill's role in the Bengal famine is disputed - Provincial Indian governments also had a role. However, like Pinochet, Churchill was voted out of office.....unlike Mao.....
Only when Field Marshall Wavell was made viceroy in September 1943 did the government of India begin to get a firm grip on the problem by using troops to distribute food reserves.
Since the Provincial Governments were elected, and hoarded their food its a bit of a stretch to lay the whole blame at Churchill's door, unlike Mao and the Great Leap Forward or the Cultural Revolution......
I don't recall Mao helping us in a war against his neighbour or murdering millions?
Oh, he was right wing - evil bastard!
Millions or thousands, I wouldn't thought it made a difference, but obvioulsy it does for you.
Neither were good men - but you equated a right wing murderer of thousands (1,200-3,200) with a left wing murderer of (around forty) millions....
Do you admire Churchill?
Can Churchill be blamed for the deaths of roughly 3 million Indians during the Bengal famine of 1943?
Churchill's role in the Bengal famine is disputed - Provincial Indian governments also had a role. However, like Pinochet, Churchill was voted out of office.....unlike Mao.....
Only when Field Marshall Wavell was made viceroy in September 1943 did the government of India begin to get a firm grip on the problem by using troops to distribute food reserves.
Since the Provincial Governments were elected, and hoarded their food its a bit of a stretch to lay the whole blame at Churchill's door, unlike Mao and the Great Leap Forward or the Cultural Revolution......
Elected by whom? How many Indians had the vote in 1943? What about the Government in New Delhi? Did they shirk their responsibility?
BISHKEK, March 17. /ITAR-TASS/. Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak asked Kyrgyz President Almazbek Atambayev by telephone on Monday for assistance in searching for the missing Malaysian Airlines Boeing-777 plane, the Kyrgyz presidential press service reports. The Malaysian premier asked Kyrgyzstan to provide any information which could help in reconstructing the plane’s possible route, which could pass through Kyrgyzstan’s airspace. Atambayev promised that the Civil Aviation Agency set up under the Kyrgyz Ministry of Transport and Communications as well as the republic’s air defence forces would provide all the necessary information to Malaysia.
Just routine or something more?
There is no other announcement of Kyrgyzstan's neighbours being asked for similar co-operation.
BISHKEK, March 17. /ITAR-TASS/. Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak asked Kyrgyz President Almazbek Atambayev by telephone on Monday for assistance in searching for the missing Malaysian Airlines Boeing-777 plane, the Kyrgyz presidential press service reports. The Malaysian premier asked Kyrgyzstan to provide any information which could help in reconstructing the plane’s possible route, which could pass through Kyrgyzstan’s airspace. Atambayev promised that the Civil Aviation Agency set up under the Kyrgyz Ministry of Transport and Communications as well as the republic’s air defence forces would provide all the necessary information to Malaysia.
Just routine or something more?
There is no other announcement of Kyrgyzstan's neighbours being asked for similar co-operation.
Looking at the map I wonder what big symbolic targets might be in flying range of Kyrgyzstan?
BISHKEK, March 17. /ITAR-TASS/. Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak asked Kyrgyz President Almazbek Atambayev by telephone on Monday for assistance in searching for the missing Malaysian Airlines Boeing-777 plane, the Kyrgyz presidential press service reports. The Malaysian premier asked Kyrgyzstan to provide any information which could help in reconstructing the plane’s possible route, which could pass through Kyrgyzstan’s airspace. Atambayev promised that the Civil Aviation Agency set up under the Kyrgyz Ministry of Transport and Communications as well as the republic’s air defence forces would provide all the necessary information to Malaysia.
Just routine or something more?
There is no other announcement of Kyrgyzstan's neighbours being asked for similar co-operation.
Looking at the map I wonder what big symbolic targets might be in flying range of Kyrgyzstan?
edit: Urumqi would be the obvious one i guess
It would tie in with the Uighur hijack theories but seems an unlikely destination for a pro-democracy pilot objecting to the Malaysian Leader of the Opposition being imprisoned for sodomy.
I don't recall Mao helping us in a war against his neighbour or murdering millions?
Oh, he was right wing - evil bastard!
Millions or thousands, I wouldn't thought it made a difference, but obvioulsy it does for you.
Neither were good men - but you equated a right wing murderer of thousands (1,200-3,200) with a left wing murderer of (around forty) millions....
Do you admire Churchill?
Can Churchill be blamed for the deaths of roughly 3 million Indians during the Bengal famine of 1943?
Churchill's role in the Bengal famine is disputed - Provincial Indian governments also had a role. However, like Pinochet, Churchill was voted out of office.....unlike Mao.....
Bengal bore the brunt of the gathering disaster. At least 1.5 million died as a direct result of the famine which began at the end of 1942 and last all through the following year. A similar number again are estimated to have perished through disease - cholera, malaria and smallpox - because they were so malnourished that they had no resistance. Churchill, already furious with India, refused to interfere with the shipping programme to bring relief. Only when Field Marshall Wavell was made viceroy in September 1943 did the government of India begin to get a firm grip on the problem by using troops to distribute food reserves. Wavell made himself even more unpopular with Churchill by pursuing this policy. The whole episode was probably the most shameful in the history of the British Raj. If nothing else, it completely undermined the imperialist argument that British rule protected the poor of India from the rich.
- Antony Beevor, "The Second World War", Phoenix Books (2013).
Sunil, How dare you try to traduce one of Carlotta's hero's. stop telling the truth.
BISHKEK, March 17. /ITAR-TASS/. Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak asked Kyrgyz President Almazbek Atambayev by telephone on Monday for assistance in searching for the missing Malaysian Airlines Boeing-777 plane, the Kyrgyz presidential press service reports. The Malaysian premier asked Kyrgyzstan to provide any information which could help in reconstructing the plane’s possible route, which could pass through Kyrgyzstan’s airspace. Atambayev promised that the Civil Aviation Agency set up under the Kyrgyz Ministry of Transport and Communications as well as the republic’s air defence forces would provide all the necessary information to Malaysia.
Just routine or something more?
There is no other announcement of Kyrgyzstan's neighbours being asked for similar co-operation.
Looking at the map I wonder what big symbolic targets might be in flying range of Kyrgyzstan?
edit: Urumqi would be the obvious one i guess
The known Uighur on board was an oil painter from Kashgar.
It is possible he didn't want to waste time with a stop-over and flight change at Beijing.
BISHKEK, March 17. /ITAR-TASS/. Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak asked Kyrgyz President Almazbek Atambayev by telephone on Monday for assistance in searching for the missing Malaysian Airlines Boeing-777 plane, the Kyrgyz presidential press service reports. The Malaysian premier asked Kyrgyzstan to provide any information which could help in reconstructing the plane’s possible route, which could pass through Kyrgyzstan’s airspace. Atambayev promised that the Civil Aviation Agency set up under the Kyrgyz Ministry of Transport and Communications as well as the republic’s air defence forces would provide all the necessary information to Malaysia.
Just routine or something more?
There is no other announcement of Kyrgyzstan's neighbours being asked for similar co-operation.
Looking at the map I wonder what big symbolic targets might be in flying range of Kyrgyzstan?
edit: Urumqi would be the obvious one i guess
The known Uighur on board was an oil painter from Kashgar.
It is possible he didn't want to waste time with a stop-over and flight change at Beijing.
There's some interesting multilingual analysis of the MH370 situation at a blog I follow:
BISHKEK, March 17. /ITAR-TASS/. Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak asked Kyrgyz President Almazbek Atambayev by telephone on Monday for assistance in searching for the missing Malaysian Airlines Boeing-777 plane, the Kyrgyz presidential press service reports. The Malaysian premier asked Kyrgyzstan to provide any information which could help in reconstructing the plane’s possible route, which could pass through Kyrgyzstan’s airspace. Atambayev promised that the Civil Aviation Agency set up under the Kyrgyz Ministry of Transport and Communications as well as the republic’s air defence forces would provide all the necessary information to Malaysia.
Just routine or something more?
There is no other announcement of Kyrgyzstan's neighbours being asked for similar co-operation.
Looking at the map I wonder what big symbolic targets might be in flying range of Kyrgyzstan?
edit: Urumqi would be the obvious one i guess
The known Uighur on board was an oil painter from Kashgar.
It is possible he didn't want to waste time with a stop-over and flight change at Beijing.
What about the two Iranians travelling with stolen passports? Any clues there?
I don't recall Mao helping us in a war against his neighbour or murdering millions?
Oh, he was right wing - evil bastard!
Millions or thousands, I wouldn't thought it made a difference, but obvioulsy it does for you.
Neither were good men - but you equated a right wing murderer of thousands (1,200-3,200) with a left wing murderer of (around forty) millions....
Do you admire Churchill?
Can Churchill be blamed for the deaths of roughly 3 million Indians during the Bengal famine of 1943?
Churchill's role in the Bengal famine is disputed - Provincial Indian governments also had a role. However, like Pinochet, Churchill was voted out of office.....unlike Mao.....
Bengal bore the brunt of the gathering disaster. At least 1.5 million died as a direct result of the famine which began at the end of 1942 and last all through the following year. A similar number again are estimated to have perished through disease - cholera, malaria and smallpox - because they were so malnourished that they had no resistance. Churchill, already furious with India, refused to interfere with the shipping programme to bring relief. Only when Field Marshall Wavell was made viceroy in September 1943 did the government of India begin to get a firm grip on the problem by using troops to distribute food reserves. Wavell made himself even more unpopular with Churchill by pursuing this policy. The whole episode was probably the most shameful in the history of the British Raj. If nothing else, it completely undermined the imperialist argument that British rule protected the poor of India from the rich.
- Antony Beevor, "The Second World War", Phoenix Books (2013).
Sunil, How dare you try to traduce one of Carlotta's hero's. stop telling the truth.
God, you're boring. Where did I write 'Churchill was my hero'?
Change the record, Malcolm.....
Or would you prefer to discuss the views of some Scot Nats during WWII?
BISHKEK, March 17. /ITAR-TASS/. Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak asked Kyrgyz President Almazbek Atambayev by telephone on Monday for assistance in searching for the missing Malaysian Airlines Boeing-777 plane, the Kyrgyz presidential press service reports. The Malaysian premier asked Kyrgyzstan to provide any information which could help in reconstructing the plane’s possible route, which could pass through Kyrgyzstan’s airspace. Atambayev promised that the Civil Aviation Agency set up under the Kyrgyz Ministry of Transport and Communications as well as the republic’s air defence forces would provide all the necessary information to Malaysia.
Just routine or something more?
There is no other announcement of Kyrgyzstan's neighbours being asked for similar co-operation.
Looking at the map I wonder what big symbolic targets might be in flying range of Kyrgyzstan?
edit: Urumqi would be the obvious one i guess
It would tie in with the Uighur hijack theories but seems an unlikely destination for a pro-democracy pilot objecting to the Malaysian Leader of the Opposition being imprisoned for sodomy.
Yeah. I think pilot suicide is the most likely but the Uighur thing passes the time.
Someone has noticed that it could have been shadowing a flight from Singapore to Barcelona which would have been following almost exactly the same flight path as the northern arc, and might therefore have been able to avoid radar detection.
It would be interesting to hear what the aviation experts' views are on this:
BISHKEK, March 17. /ITAR-TASS/. Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak asked Kyrgyz President Almazbek Atambayev by telephone on Monday for assistance in searching for the missing Malaysian Airlines Boeing-777 plane, the Kyrgyz presidential press service reports. The Malaysian premier asked Kyrgyzstan to provide any information which could help in reconstructing the plane’s possible route, which could pass through Kyrgyzstan’s airspace. Atambayev promised that the Civil Aviation Agency set up under the Kyrgyz Ministry of Transport and Communications as well as the republic’s air defence forces would provide all the necessary information to Malaysia.
Just routine or something more?
There is no other announcement of Kyrgyzstan's neighbours being asked for similar co-operation.
Looking at the map I wonder what big symbolic targets might be in flying range of Kyrgyzstan?
edit: Urumqi would be the obvious one i guess
The known Uighur on board was an oil painter from Kashgar.
It is possible he didn't want to waste time with a stop-over and flight change at Beijing.
What about the two Iranians travelling with stolen passports? Any clues there?
Comrade
I deleted the last line of my comment before posting. I was suffering from a rare attack of good sense and taste.
But now you ask I will reveal the deletion.
The known Uighur on board was an oil painter from Kashgar.
Like Comrade Sunilsky, he had been awarded a PhD by a British University. Could the highjack motive be revenge for the 1942 Bengal famine?
On the Iranians, no one seems to be going down this route and most have accepted at face value reports that the two false passport holders were economic migrants rather than terrorists. But who knows? An Iranian terrorist link may just be temporarily out of fashion.
I don't recall Mao helping us in a war against his neighbour or murdering millions?
Oh, he was right wing - evil bastard!
Millions or thousands, I wouldn't thought it made a difference, but obvioulsy it does for you.
Neither were good men - but you equated a right wing murderer of thousands (1,200-3,200) with a left wing murderer of (around forty) millions....
Do you admire Churchill?
Can Churchill be blamed for the deaths of roughly 3 million Indians during the Bengal famine of 1943?
Churchill's role in the Bengal famine is disputed - Provincial Indian governments also had a role. However, like Pinochet, Churchill was voted out of office.....unlike Mao.....
Bengal bore the brunt of the gathering disaster. At least 1.5 million died as a direct result of the famine which began at the end of 1942 and last all through the following year. A similar number again are estimated to have perished through disease - cholera, malaria and smallpox - because they were so malnourished that they had no resistance. Churchill, already furious with India, refused to interfere with the shipping programme to bring relief. Only when Field .
- Antony Beevor, "The Second World War", Phoenix Books (2013).
Sunil, How dare you try to traduce one of Carlotta's hero's. stop telling the truth.
God, you're boring. Where did I write 'Churchill was my hero'?
Change the record, Malcolm.....
Or would you prefer to discuss the views of some Scot Nats during WWII?
Rather than Churchill, also plenty of Nazis in London in WWII. We saw how London treats Scotland , look at the 51st Highland Division, or him having tanks out in George Square whilst the Scottish troops were held in barracks at gunpoint. Don't think unionists should be bleating about one supposed dodgy SNP supporter when you had shed loads of Nazis in government , establishment and the palace. We could go on to state sponsored murder in Kenya and probably post for 24 hours on the atrocities carried out across the world under the butchers apron. So bring it on , hard for one dodgy SNP supporter to begin to match the 1.5 million confirmed above.
Someone has noticed that it could have been shadowing a flight from Singapore to Barcelona which would have been following almost exactly the same flight path as the northern arc, and might therefore have been able to avoid radar detection.
It would be interesting to hear what the aviation experts' views are on this:
"Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?"
I am far from being an expert, but I'd be surprised if the plane took that route over those countries and was not detected by primary radar, either civil or military. Such radars are designed to distinguish between individual targets, for the obvious reasons.
Then again, Mathias Rust landed his aircraft in Red Square. But that was detected; it was only incompetence that stopped it being intercepted.
I still think the most likely and simplest explanation is fire and catastrophic electrical failures. I'm probably wrong though ...
I don't recall Mao helping us in a war against his neighbour or murdering millions?
Oh, he was right wing - evil bastard!
Millions or thousands, I wouldn't thought it made a difference, but obvioulsy it does for you.
Neither were good men - but you equated a right wing murderer of thousands (1,200-3,200) with a left wing murderer of (around forty) millions....
Do you admire Churchill?
Can Churchill be blamed for the deaths of roughly 3 million Indians during the Bengal famine of 1943?
Churchill's role in the Bengal famine is disputed - Provincial Indian governments also had a role. However, like Pinochet, Churchill was voted out of office.....unlike Mao.....
Bengal bore the brunt of the gathering disaster. At least 1.5 million died as a direct result of the famine which began at the end of 1942 and last all through the following year. A similar number again are estimated to have perished through disease - cholera, malaria and smallpox - because they were so malnourished that they had no resistance. Churchill, already furious with India, refused to interfere with the shipping programme to bring relief. Only when Field .
- Antony Beevor, "The Second World War", Phoenix Books (2013).
Sunil, How dare you try to traduce one of Carlotta's hero's. stop telling the truth.
God, you're boring. Where did I write 'Churchill was my hero'?
Change the record, Malcolm.....
Or would you prefer to discuss the views of some Scot Nats during WWII?
one supposed dodgy SNP supporter
You mean Arthur Donaldson, leader of the SNP for 9 years?
Yeah. I think pilot suicide is the most likely but the Uighur thing passes the time.
Pilot suicide is super depressing. Plenty of ways to off oneself without having to kill anyone in the process.
Its also very convenient for the airline, Boeing, RR, Malaysian security......
Well, the black box will reveal all (if found)
Unfortunately it probably won't.
The reason is that the crucial part of the flight, at about 1:30am, when the flight started diverging from its set course to Beijing, probably won't be on the cockpit or data recorders if the plane flew for more than 2 hours afterwards.
The reason is that the crucial part of the flight, at about 1:30am, when the flight started diverging from its set course to Beijing, probably won't be on the cockpit or data recorders if the plane flew for more than 2 hours afterwards.
So both recorders can be disabled too? Who designed this system?!
Someone has noticed that it could have been shadowing a flight from Singapore to Barcelona which would have been following almost exactly the same flight path as the northern arc, and might therefore have been able to avoid radar detection.
It would be interesting to hear what the aviation experts' views are on this:
"Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?"
I am far from being an expert, but I'd be surprised if the plane took that route over those countries and was not detected by primary radar, either civil or military. Such radars are designed to distinguish between individual targets, for the obvious reasons.
Then again, Mathias Rust landed his aircraft in Red Square. But that was detected; it was only incompetence that stopped it being intercepted.
I still think the most likely and simplest explanation is fire and catastrophic electrical failures. I'm probably wrong though ...
Aviation expert David Learmount has been speculating that maybe some of the radar systems in countries like India and Malaysia aren't "all they've been cracked up to be".
The revelation that India didn't have their Andaman Islands radar on all the time because "it was too expensive" was a bit of an eye-opener. Maybe the same sort of thing is true in other countries in the area, but of course they would never want to reveal the fact their radars weren't constantly on unless absolutely necessary.
The reason is that the crucial part of the flight, at about 1:30am, when the flight started diverging from its set course to Beijing, probably won't be on the cockpit or data recorders if the plane flew for more than 2 hours afterwards.
So both recorders can be disabled too? Who designed this system?!
I read the other day there are circuit breakers for all the electronic systems, which can be disabled in the event of a fire for example.
But that wasn't my point actually: the point was the cockpit and data recording devices only record the last two hours' worth of data, so if the plane flew for more than 2 hours after 1:30am that data would be recorded on top of.
Comments
Lab 36
LD 10
UKIP 11
http://www.populus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Online_VI_16-03-2014_BPC.pdf
Interesting question on "which party usually most closely identified with":
Con: 28
Lab: 29
LibD: 10
UKIP: 4
None: 24
It's ed who is missing an opportunity. Blair might try to outflank Osborne by promising to raise the 40bp rate (perhaps at the same time as introducing more rich clobbering measures). Ed would never do that.
Agree too. My eyes were opened when I tried to transfer my RBS bank account from London to my local branch in Nottingham - same name, same account, just a change of home branch. Everyone there knew me as the local MP, but they required a four-page form and copious documentation and urged me kindly not to bother. I took their advice.
What a pity his eyes weren't opened a bit earlier, when he was a legislator at the time when this garbage was put on our statute books.
Years ago when I lived in France for a while I was gobsmacked by the insane bureaucracy, which at that time was completely unknown in the UK. New Labour, supported by Nick's votes in parliament, fixed that good'n'proper.
Yes. the 40p threshold.
Add they would then be blamed for any future scandals.
Sad, but politicians love the ratchet effect
Labour have bribed this group for 13 years - however it is a shrinking group..
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/17/sri-lanka-arrests-human-rights-activists-terrorism-law
With the international gaze focussed on Ukraine and the draft UNHRC resolution against Sri Lanka looking very tame, the regime continues to put two fingers up to the international community.
The international community's response: Nothing - we'll soon see the Sri Lankan cricket team (who are basically a propaganda instrument of the Sri Lankan Government) arrive to these shores. And the War Criminal in chief (M. Rajapakse) will have a prominent position during the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow.
I weep, I weep...
My contacts in local authorities all tell me that they expect the financial settlement for 2015-16 to be brutal irrespective of whoever is in Government. One authority I know has for example made over £30 million in internal savings (sounds a lot but their Budget is £1.5 billion per annum) but all of that has been taken up by reductions in central Government grant so the huge programme of reductions they went through before 2010 and the re-organisations since have got them nowhere.
In addition, additional responsibilities in public health and increasing pressure on services for both vulnerable children and adults means the authority is struggling to hold the current line.
This Authority has sought to give itself a future non-Government income stream by investing in commercial property and seeking to live off the rental yield.
And Mr J does have a point, it seems a bit rich banks asking customers to be squeaky clean when the biggest problem appear to be other banks laundering money for mexican drug cartels or pariah governments.
If Dave wanted to leave his mark on the nation he should have brought in a £100 and £200 note.
Incidentally we are seeing another good example of the hypocrisy of the left in relation to South America. Oddly - I can't think why - there has been a deafening silence about Venezuela.
Tony Benn was posh ... and barmy. But he probably meant well.
ps google money laundering london
Many years ago, I told my son when when he was about five that "Daddies can't be naughty." He soon grew out of that but a few don't, and the majority grow up to be politicians who always know everything.
Oh, he was right wing - evil bastard!
Was his hatred of capitalist society so great that he could have tolerated all the anti democratic effects of its alternative, communism? The camps, the oppression, the secret police, the famines? Ever hear him talk about capitalism?
My feeling is yes, absolutely.
Mrs T did far more damage by arming the Khmer Rouge than Benn ever did in lionising Mao. Both were horribly wrong, of course.
I think eggheads are generally late developers so they get bullied at school by early puberty meatheads and that makes a lot of them bitter towards their own culture and want to trash it in various ways.
"Was his hatred of capitalist society so great that he could have tolerated all the anti democratic effects of its alternative, communism?"
For many ... they can. Ed's Dad may have been among them. You either ignore the faults or you blame someone else for them. I suspect Mrs T was well aware of Pinochet's faults because she was a realist. Michael Foot and Tony Benn were just barmy.
And, and it's all the US's fault.
Articles like this:
http://ceasefiremagazine.co.uk/western-media-almost-wrong-venezuela/
Really? don;t see how somebody like that could have admired Chairman Mao.
That, or the 'BritNat Unionists'.......
He's an intelligent man, a skilled coder, from a firmly middle-class background, who married a firmly middle-class wife whose father was high-up in the military. But they both live in semi-Hippiedom and rage against the background they were raised in. Despite living a middle-class lifestyle that isn't remotely disguised by their thin veneer of pretentious hippiedom.
Blooming hypocrites. And to top it all off, they're vegan ...
;-)
Can Churchill be blamed for the deaths of roughly 3 million Indians during the Bengal famine of 1943?
or socially responsible individuals more interested in public service than money?
take your choice
And politicians!!!!
It's one of the tricks of civilisation: to be able to disagree with someone's views, but to remain friendly with them. Just as long as they don't serve me their nut roast in baked courgette monstrosity again. ;-)
A man due to stand for UKIP in Great Yarmouth at the next general election has been summonsed to faces charges of electoral malpractice.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-26618246
Should GO cut taxes to bribe the electorate as having a Con govt with these tax cuts will still mean a lower deficit and saner finances than if Labour get in ?
a bribe to save the economy from 5 years of Labour ?
- Antony Beevor, "The Second World War", Phoenix Books (2013).
And, no, it is not about Crimea.
BISHKEK, March 17. /ITAR-TASS/. Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak asked Kyrgyz President Almazbek Atambayev by telephone on Monday for assistance in searching for the missing Malaysian Airlines Boeing-777 plane, the Kyrgyz presidential press service reports. The Malaysian premier asked Kyrgyzstan to provide any information which could help in reconstructing the plane’s possible route, which could pass through Kyrgyzstan’s airspace.
Atambayev promised that the Civil Aviation Agency set up under the Kyrgyz Ministry of Transport and Communications as well as the republic’s air defence forces would provide all the necessary information to Malaysia.
Just routine or something more?
There is no other announcement of Kyrgyzstan's neighbours being asked for similar co-operation.
edit: Urumqi would be the obvious one i guess
It is possible he didn't want to waste time with a stop-over and flight change at Beijing.
http://aviationtroubleshooting.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/data-trail-from-malaysia-mh370-after.html
http://aviationtroubleshooting.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-re-route.html
Change the record, Malcolm.....
Or would you prefer to discuss the views of some Scot Nats during WWII?
Someone has noticed that it could have been shadowing a flight from Singapore to Barcelona which would have been following almost exactly the same flight path as the northern arc, and might therefore have been able to avoid radar detection.
It would be interesting to hear what the aviation experts' views are on this:
http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/post/79838944823/did-malaysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68
"Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68/SQ68 (another 777)?"
I deleted the last line of my comment before posting. I was suffering from a rare attack of good sense and taste.
But now you ask I will reveal the deletion.
The known Uighur on board was an oil painter from Kashgar.
Like Comrade Sunilsky, he had been awarded a PhD by a British University. Could the highjack motive be revenge for the 1942 Bengal famine?
On the Iranians, no one seems to be going down this route and most have accepted at face value reports that the two false passport holders were economic migrants rather than terrorists. But who knows? An Iranian terrorist link may just be temporarily out of fashion.
Don't think unionists should be bleating about one supposed dodgy SNP supporter when you had shed loads of Nazis in government , establishment and the palace. We could go on to state sponsored murder in Kenya and probably post for 24 hours on the atrocities carried out across the world under the butchers apron. So bring it on , hard for one dodgy SNP supporter to begin to match the 1.5 million confirmed above.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26604044
Then again, Mathias Rust landed his aircraft in Red Square. But that was detected; it was only incompetence that stopped it being intercepted.
I still think the most likely and simplest explanation is fire and catastrophic electrical failures. I'm probably wrong though ...
The reason is that the crucial part of the flight, at about 1:30am, when the flight started diverging from its set course to Beijing, probably won't be on the cockpit or data recorders if the plane flew for more than 2 hours afterwards.
The revelation that India didn't have their Andaman Islands radar on all the time because "it was too expensive" was a bit of an eye-opener. Maybe the same sort of thing is true in other countries in the area, but of course they would never want to reveal the fact their radars weren't constantly on unless absolutely necessary.
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/learmount/2014/03/flight-path-mh370-story/
But that wasn't my point actually: the point was the cockpit and data recording devices only record the last two hours' worth of data, so if the plane flew for more than 2 hours after 1:30am that data would be recorded on top of.