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Donald Trump and knocking up the voters – politicalbetting.com

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  • the bbc website currently has in its top five articles a piece on two woman who think Trump staged the two attempted murders of him. Really BBC ????? WTF are you playing at ? you admit half way down the article there is no evidence for this so WTF are you giving it so much prominence or any at all - Do you want to be a conspiracy theory host ? Very amateur especially with the pains it goes to to "verify" other staff

    You missed the byline. The story is by the BBC's disinformation correspondent The story is not about fake assassination attempts but about how the conspiracy theories spread and why people believe them.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvglm0rjy2go
    doesnt headline like that - makes it sound like the BBC wishes to spread these groundless rumours - Simpler and more honest to not write it in the first place
    No, not if you read it. The spread of disinformation in elections, politics and life generally is a real problem. Just this week we've had reports of Iranian interference in the American election, the FBI taking down a Chinese botnet, and the Dutch doing something or other after British and American tip-offs. Not to mention PB's own weekly visits from Uncle Vlad's foreign legion.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,874
    mercator said:

    I'm on holiday!

    I set off for Lyme Regis first thing tomorrow

    I've been rather doubting the sanity of my decision during the downpours of the last few days

    Don't forget to have a drink at the square & compasses in Worth Matravers.
    Although it’s nearer Swanage than Lyme Regis.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,456
    edited September 22

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Labour are more B&M prices....as little as £10k donation will get you an high ranking "impartial" civil service job.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    You are not getting that the Labour issue is almost worse because they are bought so cheaply - clothes - fucking clothes they earn enough to comfortably buy themselves, pop concert tickets. If you sell your soul make sure it’s for a high price.

    Labour are the Sharon Bott of politics who will do everything for 50p and a pound of grapes.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703

    A new statue of Oscar Wild has been branded “absolutely hideous” by the writer’s grandson.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/22/oscar-wildes-family-criticise-hideous-new-statue-of-writer/

    Has the craft of sculpting been lost? Seem regular occurrence now they are bloody awful representations.

    Wild? He must have been absolutely livid :wink: .
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    mercator said:

    I'm on holiday!

    I set off for Lyme Regis first thing tomorrow

    I've been rather doubting the sanity of my decision during the downpours of the last few days

    Don't forget to have a drink at the square & compasses in Worth Matravers.
    Although it’s nearer Swanage than Lyme Regis.
    I believe this is a walking holiday...
  • I’ve got the perfect song lined up to start my wet walking playlist tomorrow

    Let’s Wade In The Water by Marlena Shaw

    https://youtu.be/Qj0fUrbfjf4
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412
    MattW said:

    A new statue of Oscar Wild has been branded “absolutely hideous” by the writer’s grandson.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/22/oscar-wildes-family-criticise-hideous-new-statue-of-writer/

    Has the craft of sculpting been lost? Seem regular occurrence now they are bloody awful representations.

    Wild? He must have been absolutely livid :wink: .
    Well, for sculptors there is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about. So there is an upside.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    edited September 22

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    Yet I am now in my fifteenth state on my road trip, and have yet to see a single Harris-Walz garden or field poster.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    If it is small change, they can easily pay it back....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Bridget Phillipson’s “my party was a work event” excuse scores highly for hypocrisy:

    https://x.com/bphillipsonmp/status/1466333157813325826

    When is a party not a party?

    When Boris Johnson says so.

    Yet again there’s one rule for him and his chums and another rule for everyone else.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    edited September 22
    boulay said:

    glw said:

    You can, if you want to be extremely charitable, argue that these donations have each been relatively trivial, if not everyday.

    It’s not as if any other party does anything different.

    But the fact they all come from Lord Alli, who was given a Downing Street pass by the woman whose son - now MP for Beckenham and Penge - received 10k for campaigning expenses…

    And then to have Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and Philippson each do a media round and utterly fail to come up with a coherent story beggars belief.

    Starmer made this thing blow up with his, I am not interested, go away, I will carry on taking freebies if I like as not against the rules, people will say its all fair dos, all in a lawyerly way that he thinks is really clever but hiding some of the detail, but he isn't in a court of law, its the court of public opinion.

    I think back to Cameron dealt with expenses, he came out and got the tone right. Now that was far far worse, but he managed to insulate himself somewhat by getting out the gate with the correct response.
    Cameron is a much better politician than Starmer, probably second only to Blair in living memory. Frankly I'm starting to think Sunak is a better politician than Starmer, and political nous was Sunak's biggest weakness.
    I’m not so sure. I think it more likely that Sunak is a man who has greater wealth than his tastes require. So he can instantly pay cash (ha) for anything he would want. and that’s before you get to his wife’s money.

    So it would never occur to him to ask for things, and it would seem stupid to offer money to a billionaire.
    It was reported that his wife is big into fashion and was regularly offered freebie / discounted clobber when he was PM and always made it clear she couldn't accept such things. It might well be because of the stink over her non-dom status that they didn't want renewed attention.
    It’s funny how Sunak was criticised for his wealth (and his wife’s obviously) and yet having someone super wealthy makes them less corruptible as they don’t need anyone with an agenda, overt or other, buying them glasses, centrist dad clothes, and putting them up in flats in New York.
    "His wealth (and his wife's)"?? Come on now, Sunak was a well-paid banker - good for him, he was paid plenty more than I am, but there is no 'wealth' worthy of comment that isn't pops in law's, so let's not get things confused.

    Furthermore, swimming in money doesn't seem to have made Sunak immune from taking big Government decisions that resulted in more of it coming his way. I did raise your theory as a plus when he was first mooted as leader, but sadly it didn't turn out that way. I grant you, he wasn't small time enough to sell his Government's reputation down the river for a few baubles and some free accommodation though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,872
    boulay said:

    glw said:

    You can, if you want to be extremely charitable, argue that these donations have each been relatively trivial, if not everyday.

    It’s not as if any other party does anything different.

    But the fact they all come from Lord Alli, who was given a Downing Street pass by the woman whose son - now MP for Beckenham and Penge - received 10k for campaigning expenses…

    And then to have Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and Philippson each do a media round and utterly fail to come up with a coherent story beggars belief.

    Starmer made this thing blow up with his, I am not interested, go away, I will carry on taking freebies if I like as not against the rules, people will say its all fair dos, all in a lawyerly way that he thinks is really clever but hiding some of the detail, but he isn't in a court of law, its the court of public opinion.

    I think back to Cameron dealt with expenses, he came out and got the tone right. Now that was far far worse, but he managed to insulate himself somewhat by getting out the gate with the correct response.
    Cameron is a much better politician than Starmer, probably second only to Blair in living memory. Frankly I'm starting to think Sunak is a better politician than Starmer, and political nous was Sunak's biggest weakness.
    I’m not so sure. I think it more likely that Sunak is a man who has greater wealth than his tastes require. So he can instantly pay cash (ha) for anything he would want. and that’s before you get to his wife’s money.

    So it would never occur to him to ask for things, and it would seem stupid to offer money to a billionaire.
    It was reported that his wife is big into fashion and was regularly offered freebie / discounted clobber when he was PM and always made it clear she couldn't accept such things. It might well be because of the stink over her non-dom status that they didn't want renewed attention.
    It’s funny how Sunak was criticised for his wealth (and his wife’s obviously) and yet having someone super wealthy makes them less corruptible as they don’t need anyone with an agenda, overt or other, buying them glasses, centrist dad clothes, and putting them up in flats in New York.
    That's a theory, yet being very wealthy rarely seems to stop people craving more or behaving in dodgy fashion. No shortage of rich people who didn't like to pay for things.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    edited September 22
    boulay said:

    MattW said:

    A new statue of Oscar Wild has been branded “absolutely hideous” by the writer’s grandson.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/22/oscar-wildes-family-criticise-hideous-new-statue-of-writer/

    Has the craft of sculpting been lost? Seem regular occurrence now they are bloody awful representations.

    Wild? He must have been absolutely livid :wink: .
    Well, for sculptors there is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about. So there is an upside.
    An appropriately parochial "outraged of Chelsea (or Southwold)" reaction should be "ghastly" rather then "hideous" if from the correct classes :smile: .
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    A new statue of Oscar Wild has been branded “absolutely hideous” by the writer’s grandson.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/22/oscar-wildes-family-criticise-hideous-new-statue-of-writer/

    Has the craft of sculpting been lost? Seem regular occurrence now they are bloody awful representations.

    Representational art was deeply unfashionable for a long while.

    When I was at UCL, a Spanish artist nearly got kicked out of the Slade art school because of her love for doing photorealistic painting.
    You see this on Sky's Landscape artist of the year every time. Anything that the audience might think looks like the best painting of what was in front of them never wins, always losing out to someone who only paints in red, or who leaves large parts unpainted for reasons.
  • Labour wants to govern until at least 2049, a Cabinet minister has said.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/22/labour-wants-to-govern-until-2049-says-cabinet-minister/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,872
    IanB2 said:

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    Yet I am now in my fifteenth state on my road trip, and have yet to see a single Harris-Walz garden or field poster.
    There's a real gap online between those Democrats who are getting really confident, and those who are super nervous about the outcome (ie if they actually might lose, not just the legal and violent reaction if Harris wins)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,872

    Labour wants to govern until at least 2049, a Cabinet minister has said.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/22/labour-wants-to-govern-until-2049-says-cabinet-minister/

    Bit early to begin the overconfident predictions I think.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Which do you have more respect for, a 2000 guineas a night courtesan or one who charges a tenner and her bus fare?
  • boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
  • TomWTomW Posts: 70
    kle4 said:

    boulay said:

    glw said:

    You can, if you want to be extremely charitable, argue that these donations have each been relatively trivial, if not everyday.

    It’s not as if any other party does anything different.

    But the fact they all come from Lord Alli, who was given a Downing Street pass by the woman whose son - now MP for Beckenham and Penge - received 10k for campaigning expenses…

    And then to have Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and Philippson each do a media round and utterly fail to come up with a coherent story beggars belief.

    Starmer made this thing blow up with his, I am not interested, go away, I will carry on taking freebies if I like as not against the rules, people will say its all fair dos, all in a lawyerly way that he thinks is really clever but hiding some of the detail, but he isn't in a court of law, its the court of public opinion.

    I think back to Cameron dealt with expenses, he came out and got the tone right. Now that was far far worse, but he managed to insulate himself somewhat by getting out the gate with the correct response.
    Cameron is a much better politician than Starmer, probably second only to Blair in living memory. Frankly I'm starting to think Sunak is a better politician than Starmer, and political nous was Sunak's biggest weakness.
    I’m not so sure. I think it more likely that Sunak is a man who has greater wealth than his tastes require. So he can instantly pay cash (ha) for anything he would want. and that’s before you get to his wife’s money.

    So it would never occur to him to ask for things, and it would seem stupid to offer money to a billionaire.
    It was reported that his wife is big into fashion and was regularly offered freebie / discounted clobber when he was PM and always made it clear she couldn't accept such things. It might well be because of the stink over her non-dom status that they didn't want renewed attention.
    It’s funny how Sunak was criticised for his wealth (and his wife’s obviously) and yet having someone super wealthy makes them less corruptible as they don’t need anyone with an agenda, overt or other, buying them glasses, centrist dad clothes, and putting them up in flats in New York.
    That's a theory, yet being very wealthy rarely seems to stop people craving more or behaving in dodgy fashion. No shortage of rich people who didn't like to pay for things.
    Also Elon Musk was jealous Joe Bidens tweets were getting more views than his so he had the algorithm tweaked to prioritise his posts
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    You are not getting that the Labour issue is almost worse because they are bought so cheaply - clothes - fucking clothes they earn enough to comfortably buy themselves, pop concert tickets. If you sell your soul make sure it’s for a high price.

    Labour are the Sharon Bott of politics who will do everything for 50p and a pound of grapes.

    If they sold their souls. Alli was ennobled in 1998, long before these donations, AFAIK, so he didn't get that for his money. He's not been given a gong (compare Hester). He's not had multi-million pound government contracts (compare Hester). He's not had his tax affairs investigated.

    He did get a No. 10 pass for a short period. Has a journalist asked for a list of all meetings he attended?
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,023
    Following freebiegate I have been thinking about my 28 years in elected office and what I have received. I once helped a couple with a planning matter and was offered a bottle of wine afterwards. I declined and said their vote in the next election was enough. After my first election we had a meal before the AGM provided by the school meals service. That came to an end with compulsive competitive tendering. Probably my best perk was free parking when on council business. It so happened that my workplace was 100 yards from the council offices so I made sure I did some council business every day. This usually involved going into the Members secretariat to dictate a letter to an officer or hand in a draft questions ( we did not have PCs at home in those days).
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    IanB2 said:

    Labour wants to govern until at least 2049, a Cabinet minister has said.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/22/labour-wants-to-govern-until-2049-says-cabinet-minister/

    The question currently seems to be, when are they going to start? Rather than when they might finish.
    To govern is to choose... between a free holiday, a party or designer clothes.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,551
    IanB2 said:

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    Yet I am now in my fifteenth state on my road trip, and have yet to see a single Harris-Walz garden or field poster.
    How many of the 15 were swing states? If some were, it's a bit worrying. Though Lib Dem tactics are sometimes to hold back and then flood a place to show momentum.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    IanB2 said:

    Labour wants to govern until at least 2049, a Cabinet minister has said.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/22/labour-wants-to-govern-until-2049-says-cabinet-minister/

    The question currently seems to be, when are they going to start? Rather than when they might finish.
    To govern is to choose... between a free holiday, a party or designer clothes.
    I consider myself a cynic about the political world, but I am genuinely staggered how they have f*cked up the first 100 days so badly.

  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    You are not getting that the Labour issue is almost worse because they are bought so cheaply - clothes - fucking clothes they earn enough to comfortably buy themselves, pop concert tickets. If you sell your soul make sure it’s for a high price.

    Labour are the Sharon Bott of politics who will do everything for 50p and a pound of grapes.

    If they sold their souls. Alli was ennobled in 1998, long before these donations, AFAIK, so he didn't get that for his money. He's not been given a gong (compare Hester). He's not had multi-million pound government contracts (compare Hester). He's not had his tax affairs investigated.

    He did get a No. 10 pass for a short period. Has a journalist asked for a list of all meetings he attended?
    How do you know what he wants, whether he’s got it, getting it or will blow up if what he expected, from conversations, doesn’t happen after his petty spending?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,055
    kle4 said:

    Labour wants to govern until at least 2049, a Cabinet minister has said.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/22/labour-wants-to-govern-until-2049-says-cabinet-minister/

    Bit early to begin the overconfident predictions I think.
    Someone'll soon be wheeling out that supremely overconfident article, from the last Labour government.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    MattW said:

    A new statue of Oscar Wild has been branded “absolutely hideous” by the writer’s grandson.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/22/oscar-wildes-family-criticise-hideous-new-statue-of-writer/

    Has the craft of sculpting been lost? Seem regular occurrence now they are bloody awful representations.

    Wild? He must have been absolutely livid :wink: .
    OW's grandson is still alive and only 72? OW died in 1900, coincidentally the year my paternal GF was born.

    The past is not dead. It's not even past.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,872
    edited September 22

    IanB2 said:

    Labour wants to govern until at least 2049, a Cabinet minister has said.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/22/labour-wants-to-govern-until-2049-says-cabinet-minister/

    The question currently seems to be, when are they going to start? Rather than when they might finish.
    To govern is to choose... between a free holiday, a party or designer clothes.
    This guy shows how it should be done

    Meanwhile, prosecutors relied on expert testimony, emails and Menendez's text messages to show that the senator accepted lavish rewards from foreign governments.

    They said the gifts included gold bars worth over $100,000 (£79,000)...Jurors also heard that FBI agents had found more than $480,000 (£370,452) in cash inside of Menendez's home, some of which was stuffed in envelopes and coats.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqe6m14drgjo

    It might even get overturned though, as my understanding is the Supreme Court, for what are surely not self interested reasons, has made prosecuting corruption very difficult in terms of proving quid pro quo, hence his attempted defence at trial that it was just a lot of gifts.

    Menendez pleaded not guilty in the trial. His lawyers argued that the gifts he accepted did not qualify as bribes, because prosecutors had failed to prove that he took any specific action as a result of receiving them.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    You are not getting that the Labour issue is almost worse because they are bought so cheaply - clothes - fucking clothes they earn enough to comfortably buy themselves, pop concert tickets. If you sell your soul make sure it’s for a high price.

    Labour are the Sharon Bott of politics who will do everything for 50p and a pound of grapes.

    If they sold their souls. Alli was ennobled in 1998, long before these donations, AFAIK, so he didn't get that for his money. He's not been given a gong (compare Hester). He's not had multi-million pound government contracts (compare Hester). He's not had his tax affairs investigated.

    He did get a No. 10 pass for a short period. Has a journalist asked for a list of all meetings he attended?
    He still attends apparently, despite no longer having a pass.

    He seems a Lord Archer figure. Lord Archer's Champagne and shepherd's pie parties where legendary. Tory politicians also used his London penthouse. They were dazzled by his wealth. Alli will want something in return though, as Archer did - and Hester did.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,551
    edited September 22
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    Yet I am now in my fifteenth state on my road trip, and have yet to see a single Harris-Walz garden or field poster.
    There's a real gap online between those Democrats who are getting really confident, and those who are super nervous about the outcome (ie if they actually might lose, not just the legal and violent reaction if Harris wins)
    I think it's the difference between those saying honestly what they think, and the more astute, who want to avoid any complacency and say it's too close to call.
    Been there. Done that.

    If I thought I had any influence on Dem activists I wouldn't be calling it for Kamala. I'd be - ooh this is very close. Every vote will count. Keep working.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    BondegaSue?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696
    mercator said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Which do you have more respect for, a 2000 guineas a night courtesan or one who charges a tenner and her bus fare?
    So, we should criticise the MP who declared the smallest donation?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    mercator said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    As I have said, he is gay and was instrumental in getting Cameron's gay marriage act passed. He is active in the LGBT Foundation which seems to be mainly T (other battles having been largely won). I think the big prize he is after is a change to gender recognition law.
    How did Sir Queer Charmer coax Alli's munificence?

  • TomWTomW Posts: 70
    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    Yet I am now in my fifteenth state on my road trip, and have yet to see a single Harris-Walz garden or field poster.
    There's a real gap online between those Democrats who are getting really confident, and those who are super nervous about the outcome (ie if they actually might lose, not just the legal and violent reaction if Harris wins)
    I think it's the difference between those saying honestly what they think, and the more astute, who want to avoid any complacency and say it's too close to call.
    Been there. Done that.

    If I thought I had any influence on Dem activists I wouldn't be calling it for Kamala. I'd be - ooh this is very close. Every vote will count. Keep working.
    Im calling it for Harris. She will be a complete disaster though and will mean leading the west we will have her, Starmer, Macron and Scholz. Im sure Putin and Xi are quaking.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358
    edited September 22

    Labour wants to govern until at least 2049, a Cabinet minister has said.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/22/labour-wants-to-govern-until-2049-says-cabinet-minister/

    Be surprised if they make it to 8.30....
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    You are not getting that the Labour issue is almost worse because they are bought so cheaply - clothes - fucking clothes they earn enough to comfortably buy themselves, pop concert tickets. If you sell your soul make sure it’s for a high price.

    Labour are the Sharon Bott of politics who will do everything for 50p and a pound of grapes.

    If they sold their souls. Alli was ennobled in 1998, long before these donations, AFAIK, so he didn't get that for his money. He's not been given a gong (compare Hester). He's not had multi-million pound government contracts (compare Hester). He's not had his tax affairs investigated.

    He did get a No. 10 pass for a short period. Has a journalist asked for a list of all meetings he attended?
    He still attends apparently, despite no longer having a pass.

    He seems a Lord Archer figure. Lord Archer's Champagne and shepherd's pie parties where legendary. Tory politicians also used his London penthouse. They were dazzled by his wealth. Alli will want something in return though, as Archer did - and Hester did.
    Legendary in lord archer's own lunchtime. Awful little man with no agenda beyond self aggrandisement. Alli seems to be a serious player; he is buying something, not sure what. Archer just thought he could spend enough money that people would think he went to Eton.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358
    IanB2 said:

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    Yet I am now in my fifteenth state on my road trip, and have yet to see a single Harris-Walz garden or field poster.
    Never left Trumpistan....
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,551
    TomW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    Yet I am now in my fifteenth state on my road trip, and have yet to see a single Harris-Walz garden or field poster.
    There's a real gap online between those Democrats who are getting really confident, and those who are super nervous about the outcome (ie if they actually might lose, not just the legal and violent reaction if Harris wins)
    I think it's the difference between those saying honestly what they think, and the more astute, who want to avoid any complacency and say it's too close to call.
    Been there. Done that.

    If I thought I had any influence on Dem activists I wouldn't be calling it for Kamala. I'd be - ooh this is very close. Every vote will count. Keep working.
    Im calling it for Harris. She will be a complete disaster though and will mean leading the west we will have her, Starmer, Macron and Scholz. Im sure Putin and Xi are quaking.
    When you say "we will have her" who is "we"?
  • TomWTomW Posts: 70
    Owning Twitter has aged Elon like a decade in two years.

    https://x.com/Esqueer_/status/1837196522079084902
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358
    Barnesian said:

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    This is going to be a blow out for Kamala.

    The momentum is with her.
    The polls are a lagging indicator.
    The Dems ground game is much better.
    Young women are motivated (Taylor Swift)
    There will be a herd effect in swing states among the undecided as it becomes clear that Kamala is the winner.

    You can get 25 on 360+ ECs on Betfair. Unlikely but 360+ is not unusual.

    Nixon 520 in 1972
    Reagan 489 in 1980 and 535 in 1984
    Bush 426 in 1988
    Clinton 370 in 1992 and 379 in 1996
    Obama 365 in 2008

    It's not a normal distribution. When it blows, it blows. And it's gonna blow!

    360 is potentially within reach - but not easy by any means. South Carolina and Florida plus all the Biden states - then needs one more. Ohio?
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    mercator said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Which do you have more respect for, a 2000 guineas a night courtesan or one who charges a tenner and her bus fare?
    So, we should criticise the MP who declared the smallest donation?
    Yes. Venal and petty is two faults. Venal is one. First rule of politics is learn to count.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696
    slade said:

    Following freebiegate I have been thinking about my 28 years in elected office and what I have received. I once helped a couple with a planning matter and was offered a bottle of wine afterwards. I declined and said their vote in the next election was enough. After my first election we had a meal before the AGM provided by the school meals service. That came to an end with compulsive competitive tendering. Probably my best perk was free parking when on council business. It so happened that my workplace was 100 yards from the council offices so I made sure I did some council business every day. This usually involved going into the Members secretariat to dictate a letter to an officer or hand in a draft questions ( we did not have PCs at home in those days).

    Did people ever donate money to the political party you were in?
  • TomWTomW Posts: 70
    Barnesian said:

    TomW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    Yet I am now in my fifteenth state on my road trip, and have yet to see a single Harris-Walz garden or field poster.
    There's a real gap online between those Democrats who are getting really confident, and those who are super nervous about the outcome (ie if they actually might lose, not just the legal and violent reaction if Harris wins)
    I think it's the difference between those saying honestly what they think, and the more astute, who want to avoid any complacency and say it's too close to call.
    Been there. Done that.

    If I thought I had any influence on Dem activists I wouldn't be calling it for Kamala. I'd be - ooh this is very close. Every vote will count. Keep working.
    Im calling it for Harris. She will be a complete disaster though and will mean leading the west we will have her, Starmer, Macron and Scholz. Im sure Putin and Xi are quaking.
    When you say "we will have her" who is "we"?
    I mean we in the west. Im pretty sure Putin wants Kamala not too bright and easy to manipulate.
  • boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,551

    Barnesian said:

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    This is going to be a blow out for Kamala.

    The momentum is with her.
    The polls are a lagging indicator.
    The Dems ground game is much better.
    Young women are motivated (Taylor Swift)
    There will be a herd effect in swing states among the undecided as it becomes clear that Kamala is the winner.

    You can get 25 on 360+ ECs on Betfair. Unlikely but 360+ is not unusual.

    Nixon 520 in 1972
    Reagan 489 in 1980 and 535 in 1984
    Bush 426 in 1988
    Clinton 370 in 1992 and 379 in 1996
    Obama 365 in 2008

    It's not a normal distribution. When it blows, it blows. And it's gonna blow!

    360 is potentially within reach - but not easy by any means. South Carolina and Florida plus all the Biden states - then needs one more. Ohio?
    It's not easy. Texas at 11s on Betfair. Ohio is at 15s.
    A tsunami sweeps all before it. Juts look at Nixon on 520 or Bush on 426.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696
    mercator said:

    mercator said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Which do you have more respect for, a 2000 guineas a night courtesan or one who charges a tenner and her bus fare?
    So, we should criticise the MP who declared the smallest donation?
    Yes. Venal and petty is two faults. Venal is one. First rule of politics is learn to count.
    So, the greater sinner here is Anneliese Dodds. She's got the lowest (non-zero) declaration I've seen so far.

    Name of donor: Oxford United Football Club LTD
    Address of donor: The Kassam Stadium, Grenoble Road, Oxford OX4 4XP
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Family ticket with hospitality to a football match. The value of the family ticket and hospitality was donated to charity, value £305
    Date received: 4 March 2024
    Date accepted: 4 March 2024
    Donor status: company, registration 00470509

    (Registered 7 March 2024; updated 15 March 2024)

    Name of donor: Football Association Limited
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Three tickets with hospitality to the FA Women's Cup Final. The value of the tickets and hospitality was donated to charity, value £450
    Date received: 19 April 2024
    Date accepted: 19 April 2024
    Donor status: company, registration 0007779

    (Registered 20 May 2024)
  • What does Lord Alli want for his largesse?

    And when will we see his minions act?
  • TomWTomW Posts: 70
    Seems like it will come down to pennsylvania and nevada in the end. Interesting how Florida and Ohio are no longer swing states.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    mercator said:

    mercator said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Which do you have more respect for, a 2000 guineas a night courtesan or one who charges a tenner and her bus fare?
    So, we should criticise the MP who declared the smallest donation?
    Yes. Venal and petty is two faults. Venal is one. First rule of politics is learn to count.
    So, the greater sinner here is Anneliese Dodds. She's got the lowest (non-zero) declaration I've seen so far.

    Name of donor: Oxford United Football Club LTD
    Address of donor: The Kassam Stadium, Grenoble Road, Oxford OX4 4XP
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Family ticket with hospitality to a football match. The value of the family ticket and hospitality was donated to charity, value £305
    Date received: 4 March 2024
    Date accepted: 4 March 2024
    Donor status: company, registration 00470509

    (Registered 7 March 2024; updated 15 March 2024)

    Name of donor: Football Association Limited
    Address of donor: Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London HA9 0WS
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Three tickets with hospitality to the FA Women's Cup Final. The value of the tickets and hospitality was donated to charity, value £450
    Date received: 19 April 2024
    Date accepted: 19 April 2024
    Donor status: company, registration 0007779

    (Registered 20 May 2024)
    Somewhere in there is a point trying to get out. "sleeze [sic]" rules you out as someone I want to debate anything with.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    Though Starmer still 10 points ahead as best PM. That's how low Tory popularity is. Lower than a snakes belly.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,551
    TomW said:

    Barnesian said:

    TomW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    Yet I am now in my fifteenth state on my road trip, and have yet to see a single Harris-Walz garden or field poster.
    There's a real gap online between those Democrats who are getting really confident, and those who are super nervous about the outcome (ie if they actually might lose, not just the legal and violent reaction if Harris wins)
    I think it's the difference between those saying honestly what they think, and the more astute, who want to avoid any complacency and say it's too close to call.
    Been there. Done that.

    If I thought I had any influence on Dem activists I wouldn't be calling it for Kamala. I'd be - ooh this is very close. Every vote will count. Keep working.
    Im calling it for Harris. She will be a complete disaster though and will mean leading the west we will have her, Starmer, Macron and Scholz. Im sure Putin and Xi are quaking.
    When you say "we will have her" who is "we"?
    I mean we in the west. Im pretty sure Putin wants Kamala not too bright and easy to manipulate.
    Kamala is brighter than Trump, and Putin has no "material" on her, unlike Trump.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824
    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    Though Starmer still 10 points ahead as best PM. That's how low Tory popularity is. Lower than a snakes belly.
    Well they don’t actually have a leader yet…
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    This is going to be a blow out for Kamala.

    The momentum is with her.
    The polls are a lagging indicator.
    The Dems ground game is much better.
    Young women are motivated (Taylor Swift)
    There will be a herd effect in swing states among the undecided as it becomes clear that Kamala is the winner.

    You can get 25 on 360+ ECs on Betfair. Unlikely but 360+ is not unusual.

    Nixon 520 in 1972
    Reagan 489 in 1980 and 535 in 1984
    Bush 426 in 1988
    Clinton 370 in 1992 and 379 in 1996
    Obama 365 in 2008

    It's not a normal distribution. When it blows, it blows. And it's gonna blow!

    360 is potentially within reach - but not easy by any means. South Carolina and Florida plus all the Biden states - then needs one more. Ohio?
    It's not easy. Texas at 11s on Betfair. Ohio is at 15s.
    A tsunami sweeps all before it. Juts look at Nixon on 520 or Bush on 426.
    The only reason I mention Ohio over Texas were the reports that Republicans in Ohio were "worried"... May just have been at House of Reps level. But...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    It's not a good story for Labour. They've not handled it well. I hope the LibDems can capitalise on this.

    You support the Greens, don't you? I was going to cut and paste Carla Denyer's declaration, but it's too long and Vanilla Forum won't even accept it! You can read it at https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/240902/denyer_carla.htm Highlights include £70k from one donor and £30k from another.
  • Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    Though Starmer still 10 points ahead as best PM. That's how low Tory popularity is. Lower than a snakes belly.
    I see you have few straws left to clutch
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,551
    TomW said:

    Seems like it will come down to pennsylvania and nevada in the end. Interesting how Florida and Ohio are no longer swing states.

    Nevada is only 6 EC. Pennsylvania, Georgia and North Carolina are the ones to watch.

    Pennsylvania Kamala lead 1.5%
    Georgia Trump lead 1%
    North Carolina Trump lead 0.1%
    but the trend is to Kamala, and polls lag.
  • kle4 said:

    boulay said:

    glw said:

    You can, if you want to be extremely charitable, argue that these donations have each been relatively trivial, if not everyday.

    It’s not as if any other party does anything different.

    But the fact they all come from Lord Alli, who was given a Downing Street pass by the woman whose son - now MP for Beckenham and Penge - received 10k for campaigning expenses…

    And then to have Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and Philippson each do a media round and utterly fail to come up with a coherent story beggars belief.

    Starmer made this thing blow up with his, I am not interested, go away, I will carry on taking freebies if I like as not against the rules, people will say its all fair dos, all in a lawyerly way that he thinks is really clever but hiding some of the detail, but he isn't in a court of law, its the court of public opinion.

    I think back to Cameron dealt with expenses, he came out and got the tone right. Now that was far far worse, but he managed to insulate himself somewhat by getting out the gate with the correct response.
    Cameron is a much better politician than Starmer, probably second only to Blair in living memory. Frankly I'm starting to think Sunak is a better politician than Starmer, and political nous was Sunak's biggest weakness.
    I’m not so sure. I think it more likely that Sunak is a man who has greater wealth than his tastes require. So he can instantly pay cash (ha) for anything he would want. and that’s before you get to his wife’s money.

    So it would never occur to him to ask for things, and it would seem stupid to offer money to a billionaire.
    It was reported that his wife is big into fashion and was regularly offered freebie / discounted clobber when he was PM and always made it clear she couldn't accept such things. It might well be because of the stink over her non-dom status that they didn't want renewed attention.
    It’s funny how Sunak was criticised for his wealth (and his wife’s obviously) and yet having someone super wealthy makes them less corruptible as they don’t need anyone with an agenda, overt or other, buying them glasses, centrist dad clothes, and putting them up in flats in New York.
    That's a theory, yet being very wealthy rarely seems to stop people craving more or behaving in dodgy fashion. No shortage of rich people who didn't like to pay for things.
    OK. However, note that when yours truly was but a callow youth in what you might call the front-boondocks of West Virginia, when the slightly older John D. Rockefeller IV (aka "Jay") entered WVa politics, after serving maybe two years as a VISTA (domestic Peace Corps) volunteer, THE major argument in his favor - among actual voters anyway - was this:

    "He's too rich to steal."

    Perhaps not very persuasive for PB sophisticates (or other PBers for that matter). However, suspect it might have salience for millions of UKers?

    Keir Starmer & his cabinet should have put on a hair shirt the morning after Election Night (if not soooooner!) and gone on strict bread-and-water diet until polls showed sustained favoribility for new HMG.

    Instead, they are performing a lame Boris Johnson tribute act.

    IMHO the person who needs firing in No. 10 is NOT Sue Gray (that mandarins & apparatchiks hate her being the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval) but rather the moron(s) responsible for political hackery, who have failed to protect the PM & Etc. from themselves & their insatable urge for all kinds of ultimately worthless crap.

    Sure hope KM enjoys the fond memories of those games, concerts, tractor pulls, whatever.

    Ditto AR her now-hand-me-down duds.

    Reminds me of the WA State legislator back at the turn of the century, who reported to the state Public Disclosure Commissionm using political donations to buy a new suit for campaigning purposes. IIRC they said that was legit . . . but the voters thought it was a sign he was either a crook or no-account, and quite likely both; they dumped him next election.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    Today’s tally of Lib Dem corruption revelations: zero.

    Like yesterday’s. And tomorrow’s.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080

    What does Lord Alli want for his largesse?

    And when will we see his minions act?

    It's possible he just wants to see the Tories defeated. There are a fair number of such partisans about, and if one of them had a load of dosh, well, what would give them more pleasure, then helping their side to win?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824
    TimS said:

    Today’s tally of Lib Dem corruption revelations: zero.

    Like yesterday’s. And tomorrow’s.

    Why would anyone bribe the Lib Dems?
  • Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    Though Starmer still 10 points ahead as best PM. That's how low Tory popularity is. Lower than a snakes belly.
    And importantly, none of this matters at this point.

    Despite what some seem to hope, Starmer is not going to go to the Palace, advise the King to call for Sunak and apologise for wasting everybody's time.

    If Britain is working better by 2028 or so, the government will run on some version of "Yes it hurt, yes it worked" and all this will have been forgotten. If Britain isn't working better by 2029, they will lose and deservedly so.

    How long did it take Maggie to find her feet as PM?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    Barnesian said:

    TomW said:

    Barnesian said:

    TomW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    Yet I am now in my fifteenth state on my road trip, and have yet to see a single Harris-Walz garden or field poster.
    There's a real gap online between those Democrats who are getting really confident, and those who are super nervous about the outcome (ie if they actually might lose, not just the legal and violent reaction if Harris wins)
    I think it's the difference between those saying honestly what they think, and the more astute, who want to avoid any complacency and say it's too close to call.
    Been there. Done that.

    If I thought I had any influence on Dem activists I wouldn't be calling it for Kamala. I'd be - ooh this is very close. Every vote will count. Keep working.
    Im calling it for Harris. She will be a complete disaster though and will mean leading the west we will have her, Starmer, Macron and Scholz. Im sure Putin and Xi are quaking.
    When you say "we will have her" who is "we"?
    I mean we in the west. Im pretty sure Putin wants Kamala not too bright and easy to manipulate.
    Kamala is brighter than Trump, and Putin has no "material" on her, unlike Trump.
    You mean he doesn’t have film of her being pissed on while on a trip to Moscow? Who’d a thunk it?
  • boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    It's not a good story for Labour. They've not handled it well. I hope the LibDems can capitalise on this.

    You support the Greens, don't you? I was going to cut and paste Carla Denyer's declaration, but it's too long and Vanilla Forum won't even accept it! You can read it at https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/240902/denyer_carla.htm Highlights include £70k from one donor and £30k from another.
    I cannot believe you think I support the Greens if you have followed my posting over the last few months let alone years
    Of all the parties the Greens would be the last one I voted for

    Maybe you are confusing me for @bigjohnowls

    My voting history since 1964 to 2024 has been conservative apart from 1997 and 2001 when I voted Blair
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    RobD said:

    TimS said:

    Today’s tally of Lib Dem corruption revelations: zero.

    Like yesterday’s. And tomorrow’s.

    Why would anyone bribe the Lib Dems?
    Good, glad we’ve established that. So when you’re extolling the virtues of Reform in due course we can ask the same question.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    mercator said:

    I'm on holiday!

    I set off for Lyme Regis first thing tomorrow

    I've been rather doubting the sanity of my decision during the downpours of the last few days

    Don't forget to have a drink at the square & compasses in Worth Matravers.
    And visit Winspit Quarry, where the BBC filmed, among other things, the Dr who stories Destiny of the Daleks and Underwater Menace and the Blake’s Seven story Games.

  • Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    Though Starmer still 10 points ahead as best PM. That's how low Tory popularity is. Lower than a snakes belly.
    Still in second place in the polls though
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824
    TimS said:

    RobD said:

    TimS said:

    Today’s tally of Lib Dem corruption revelations: zero.

    Like yesterday’s. And tomorrow’s.

    Why would anyone bribe the Lib Dems?
    Good, glad we’ve established that. So when you’re extolling the virtues of Reform in due course we can ask the same question.
    Huh? I don’t think I have ever said anything positive about Reform.
  • What does Lord Alli want for his largesse?

    And when will we see his minions act?

    It's possible he just wants to see the Tories defeated. There are a fair number of such partisans about, and if one of them had a load of dosh, well, what would give them more pleasure, then helping their side to win?
    How does Rayner's RomCom NYE in a luxury NYC apartment help beat the Tories?
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    What does Lord Alli want for his largesse?

    And when will we see his minions act?

    The shortlist is

    Economic policies which make him a multi billionaire

    A government position on Israel (presumably anti, he is muslim)

    A bill brought forward in the LGBT space. Presumably T.

    I think he has cashed out of his businesses so not 1. No sign of interest in 2. Massive interest in 3 (ignoring as everyone seems to the absolute hostility of much of T ideology to LGB); he helped get Cameron's same sex marriage act through. So the clever money has a pretty clear pointer here.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    Though Starmer still 10 points ahead as best PM. That's how low Tory popularity is. Lower than a snakes belly.
    I see you have few straws left to clutch
    OK, betting question. If one is convinced that Starmer's government is toast after this, how should you bet? You can get 9/4 on Tories most seats at the next election or lay Labour for most seats at 1.99, but that's a while off. Is there a next Labour leader bet worth making? Reeves is joint favourite, albeit only at 8/1, but worth laying her? Or you can lay Reeves as next PM at 15. You can lay Rayner as next PM at 23.
  • Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    Though Starmer still 10 points ahead as best PM. That's how low Tory popularity is. Lower than a snakes belly.
    And importantly, none of this matters at this point.

    Despite what some seem to hope, Starmer is not going to go to the Palace, advise the King to call for Sunak and apologise for wasting everybody's time.

    If Britain is working better by 2028 or so, the government will run on some version of "Yes it hurt, yes it worked" and all this will have been forgotten. If Britain isn't working better by 2029, they will lose and deservedly so.

    How long did it take Maggie to find her feet as PM?
    It does matter as it sets the narrative which in the conservative case saw them decimated
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    The party that aims to abolish the Lords seems to be keen on entitlement
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095

    You can, if you want to be extremely charitable, argue that these donations have each been relatively trivial, if not everyday.

    It’s not as if any other party does anything different.

    But the fact they all come from Lord Alli, who was given a Downing Street pass by the woman whose son - now MP for Beckenham and Penge - received 10k for campaigning expenses…

    And then to have Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and Philippson each do a media round and utterly fail to come up with a coherent story beggars belief.

    What is most disturbing is they have been gifts to individuals. That is exactly what creates a sense of obligation. Give it to a central fund and people feel less of a personal sense of duty to do favours in return
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    RobD said:

    TimS said:

    RobD said:

    TimS said:

    Today’s tally of Lib Dem corruption revelations: zero.

    Like yesterday’s. And tomorrow’s.

    Why would anyone bribe the Lib Dems?
    Good, glad we’ve established that. So when you’re extolling the virtues of Reform in due course we can ask the same question.
    Huh? I don’t think I have ever said anything positive about Reform.
    I’ve no idea what your politics are, but everyone seems to have been very keen to explain how all this corruption means that the incorruptible, anti-elite Nigel is going to storm into power. While ignoring the actual 3rd party, as people have been wont to do since the dawn of time.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    It's not a good story for Labour. They've not handled it well. I hope the LibDems can capitalise on this.

    You support the Greens, don't you? I was going to cut and paste Carla Denyer's declaration, but it's too long and Vanilla Forum won't even accept it! You can read it at https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/240902/denyer_carla.htm Highlights include £70k from one donor and £30k from another.
    I cannot believe you think I support the Greens if you have followed my posting over the last few months let alone years
    Of all the parties the Greens would be the last one I voted for

    Maybe you are confusing me for @bigjohnowls

    My voting history since 1964 to 2024 has been conservative apart from 1997 and 2001 when I voted Blair
    I am so sorry. Yes, I have twice confused you with bigjohnowls. Mea culpa.

    Sunak's declaration is short, but very helicopter focused:

    2. (a) Support linked to an MP but received by a local party organisation or indirectly via a central party organisation

    Name of donor: The Phoenix Partnership
    Address of donor: TPP House, 129 Low Lane, Horsforth, Leeds LS18 5PX
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Provision of helicopter to fly me to a political visit and event on 23 November 2023, value £15,900
    Donor status: company, registration 4077829

    (Registered 6 December 2023)

    Name of donor: Richard David Harpin
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Provision of a helicopter to fly me to a political event on 23 February 2024, value £4,719.25
    Donor status: individual

    (Registered 18 March 2024)

    3. Gifts, benefits and hospitality from UK sources

    Name of donor: Richard Harpin
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Helicopter travel during the election campaign, value £7,896
    Date received: 25 May 2024
    Date accepted: 25 May 2024
    Donor status: individual

    (Registered 4 August 2024)

    Name of donor: Richard David Harpin
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Use of helicopter for travel with staff during election campaign, value £3,600
    Date received: 24 May 2024
    Date accepted: 24 May 2024
    Donor status: individual

    (Registered 4 August 2024)

  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    What does Lord Alli want for his largesse?

    And when will we see his minions act?

    It's possible he just wants to see the Tories defeated. There are a fair number of such partisans about, and if one of them had a load of dosh, well, what would give them more pleasure, then helping their side to win?
    Because this is very difficult to dress up as support for the party. Voters aren't swayed by the quality and cut of lady Klouseau's knickers, but Klouseau is. He is buying policies and bills.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    Though Starmer still 10 points ahead as best PM. That's how low Tory popularity is. Lower than a snakes belly.
    I see you have few straws left to clutch
    OK, betting question. If one is convinced that Starmer's government is toast after this, how should you bet? You can get 9/4 on Tories most seats at the next election or lay Labour for most seats at 1.99, but that's a while off. Is there a next Labour leader bet worth making? Reeves is joint favourite, albeit only at 8/1, but worth laying her? Or you can lay Reeves as next PM at 15. You can lay Rayner as next PM at 23.
    2029 is possibly the hardest election to call in living memory.
  • Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    Though Starmer still 10 points ahead as best PM. That's how low Tory popularity is. Lower than a snakes belly.
    I see you have few straws left to clutch
    OK, betting question. If one is convinced that Starmer's government is toast after this, how should you bet? You can get 9/4 on Tories most seats at the next election or lay Labour for most seats at 1.99, but that's a while off. Is there a next Labour leader bet worth making? Reeves is joint favourite, albeit only at 8/1, but worth laying her? Or you can lay Reeves as next PM at 15. You can lay Rayner as next PM at 23.
    Of course Labour are in office for 5 years but then so was Johnson with his 80 seat majority and we saw what happened to him and the conservatives

    Starmer is so similar to Sunak - terrible at politics
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    TomW said:

    Barnesian said:

    TomW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    Yet I am now in my fifteenth state on my road trip, and have yet to see a single Harris-Walz garden or field poster.
    There's a real gap online between those Democrats who are getting really confident, and those who are super nervous about the outcome (ie if they actually might lose, not just the legal and violent reaction if Harris wins)
    I think it's the difference between those saying honestly what they think, and the more astute, who want to avoid any complacency and say it's too close to call.
    Been there. Done that.

    If I thought I had any influence on Dem activists I wouldn't be calling it for Kamala. I'd be - ooh this is very close. Every vote will count. Keep working.
    Im calling it for Harris. She will be a complete disaster though and will mean leading the west we will have her, Starmer, Macron and Scholz. Im sure Putin and Xi are quaking.
    When you say "we will have her" who is "we"?
    I mean we in the west. Im pretty sure Putin wants Kamala not too bright and easy to manipulate.
    Well, we all know about those, but why would that mean he wants Harris?

    The fact that she's much brighter and could manipulate him would seem a drawback from Putin's POV.

    Although I suppose it would be better than being manipulated by that fat old weirdo Bortnikov.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824
    TimS said:

    RobD said:

    TimS said:

    RobD said:

    TimS said:

    Today’s tally of Lib Dem corruption revelations: zero.

    Like yesterday’s. And tomorrow’s.

    Why would anyone bribe the Lib Dems?
    Good, glad we’ve established that. So when you’re extolling the virtues of Reform in due course we can ask the same question.
    Huh? I don’t think I have ever said anything positive about Reform.
    I’ve no idea what your politics are, but everyone seems to have been very keen to explain how all this corruption means that the incorruptible, anti-elite Nigel is going to storm into power. While ignoring the actual 3rd party, as people have been wont to do since the dawn of time.
    I'm certainly not, but you made the lazy assumption I was seemingly based on nothing.
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    Yet I am now in my fifteenth state on my road trip, and have yet to see a single Harris-Walz garden or field poster.
    Never left Trumpistan....
    I’m now in sweltering NC, which is a swing state. Asheville tomorrow, which is where all the Dems hang out.


    Asheville is a great place.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,551

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    Though Starmer still 10 points ahead as best PM. That's how low Tory popularity is. Lower than a snakes belly.
    I see you have few straws left to clutch
    OK, betting question. If one is convinced that Starmer's government is toast after this, how should you bet? You can get 9/4 on Tories most seats at the next election or lay Labour for most seats at 1.99, but that's a while off. Is there a next Labour leader bet worth making? Reeves is joint favourite, albeit only at 8/1, but worth laying her? Or you can lay Reeves as next PM at 15. You can lay Rayner as next PM at 23.
    The next government depends most on what deal Farage strikes with the next Tory leader.

    If Farage is given a clear run in say 50 seats and gives the Tories a clear run in the rest then they may gain a majority between them.

    The next government will be Tory with Reform support, or Labour with LibDem support. 50/50 at the moment. I'm not betting yet.
  • Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    Though Starmer still 10 points ahead as best PM. That's how low Tory popularity is. Lower than a snakes belly.
    And importantly, none of this matters at this point.

    Despite what some seem to hope, Starmer is not going to go to the Palace, advise the King to call for Sunak and apologise for wasting everybody's time.

    If Britain is working better by 2028 or so, the government will run on some version of "Yes it hurt, yes it worked" and all this will have been forgotten. If Britain isn't working better by 2029, they will lose and deservedly so.

    How long did it take Maggie to find her feet as PM?
    It does matter as it sets the narrative which in the conservative case saw them decimated
    Not really, though.

    Firstly, it's usually the economy. Apart from a pre-election boomlet, people didn't feel better off, and could see the public realm crumbling round them. Fixing those points will cover a lot of sins.

    But OK, let's suppose this is Boris-esque sleaze. All we need to put Labour in the same hole as the previous government is a) the PM spending a year or so unambiguously lying about it and b) his replacement by a walking disaster zone. All of which may happen, but hasn't happened yet.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    RobD said:

    TimS said:

    RobD said:

    TimS said:

    RobD said:

    TimS said:

    Today’s tally of Lib Dem corruption revelations: zero.

    Like yesterday’s. And tomorrow’s.

    Why would anyone bribe the Lib Dems?
    Good, glad we’ve established that. So when you’re extolling the virtues of Reform in due course we can ask the same question.
    Huh? I don’t think I have ever said anything positive about Reform.
    I’ve no idea what your politics are, but everyone seems to have been very keen to explain how all this corruption means that the incorruptible, anti-elite Nigel is going to storm into power. While ignoring the actual 3rd party, as people have been wont to do since the dawn of time.
    I'm certainly not, but you made the lazy assumption I was seemingly based on nothing.
    Were you making any lazy assumptions at all about the Lib Dems?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    stodge said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    I'm much less bothered about whatever "largesse" they've received than how they are going to help those pensions on the wrong side of the cliff edge and losing the winter fuel allowance.

    Are we seriously expecting each MP who attended Taylor Swift on a ticket provided to pay the full cost of the ticket - let's ask Prince William to stump up for his ticket while we're about it?

    Let's not forget the grift of the previous administration - should we ask someone about the money shelled out on PPE
    contracts?
    Prince William doesn’t make decision that affect us all.

    Do you have evidence that any ministers personally benefited from the PPE contracts? If so then you should make sure the police see it, because they should be prosecuted. As it is they loosened the rules introducing vulnerabilities (understandable given the circumstances) but also showed poor judgement in fast tracking people who have been alleged to be grifters. But that’s just poor judgement, not (AFAIK) corruption
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    Though Starmer still 10 points ahead as best PM. That's how low Tory popularity is. Lower than a snakes belly.
    I see you have few straws left to clutch
    OK, betting question. If one is convinced that Starmer's government is toast after this, how should you bet? You can get 9/4 on Tories most seats at the next election or lay Labour for most seats at 1.99, but that's a while off. Is there a next Labour leader bet worth making? Reeves is joint favourite, albeit only at 8/1, but worth laying her? Or you can lay Reeves as next PM at 15. You can lay Rayner as next PM at 23.
    Of course Labour are in office for 5 years but then so was Johnson with his 80 seat majority and we saw what happened to him and the conservatives

    Starmer is so similar to Sunak - terrible at politics
    So, if the parallel is Johnson, is the sensible play -- if we accept your thesis that Starmer is terrible at politics and fatally wounded -- to bet on next PM and pick someone Labour but who isn't associated with the current scandal?
  • boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    It's not a good story for Labour. They've not handled it well. I hope the LibDems can capitalise on this.

    You support the Greens, don't you? I was going to cut and paste Carla Denyer's declaration, but it's too long and Vanilla Forum won't even accept it! You can read it at https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/240902/denyer_carla.htm Highlights include £70k from one donor and £30k from another.
    I cannot believe you think I support the Greens if you have followed my posting over the last few months let alone years
    Of all the parties the Greens would be the last one I voted for

    Maybe you are confusing me for @bigjohnowls

    My voting history since 1964 to 2024 has been conservative apart from 1997 and 2001 when I voted Blair
    I am so sorry. Yes, I have twice confused you with bigjohnowls. Mea culpa.

    Sunak's declaration is short, but very helicopter focused:

    2. (a) Support linked to an MP but received by a local party organisation or indirectly via a central party organisation

    Name of donor: The Phoenix Partnership
    Address of donor: TPP House, 129 Low Lane, Horsforth, Leeds LS18 5PX
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Provision of helicopter to fly me to a political visit and event on 23 November 2023, value £15,900
    Donor status: company, registration 4077829

    (Registered 6 December 2023)

    Name of donor: Richard David Harpin
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Provision of a helicopter to fly me to a political event on 23 February 2024, value £4,719.25
    Donor status: individual

    (Registered 18 March 2024)

    3. Gifts, benefits and hospitality from UK sources

    Name of donor: Richard Harpin
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Helicopter travel during the election campaign, value £7,896
    Date received: 25 May 2024
    Date accepted: 25 May 2024
    Donor status: individual

    (Registered 4 August 2024)

    Name of donor: Richard David Harpin
    Address of donor: private
    Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Use of helicopter for travel with staff during election campaign, value £3,600
    Date received: 24 May 2024
    Date accepted: 24 May 2024
    Donor status: individual

    (Registered 4 August 2024)

    You do seem to be almost wilfully missing the point - this is all about Labour and nobody else
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    Though Starmer still 10 points ahead as best PM. That's how low Tory popularity is. Lower than a snakes belly.
    I see you have few straws left to clutch
    OK, betting question. If one is convinced that Starmer's government is toast after this, how should you bet? You can get 9/4 on Tories most seats at the next election or lay Labour for most seats at 1.99, but that's a while off. Is there a next Labour leader bet worth making? Reeves is joint favourite, albeit only at 8/1, but worth laying her? Or you can lay Reeves as next PM at 15. You can lay Rayner as next PM at 23.
    2029 is possibly the hardest election to call in living memory.
    Your memory is a bit dodgy Tim. How many people called the 2024 GE correctly five years ago?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Still seems like small change to me. Frank Hester, whose company has had contracts worth £135 million from the NHS and who personally received an OBE for services to healthcare, gave the Conservatives over £10 million, including £15k for one helicopter trip by Sunak. Remember him? The one who said Diane Abbott should be shot.

    Graham Edwards donated £5.52m to the Conservatives. Sunak made him the Conservative Party treasurer. Another guy who was made Conservative Party treasurer was Mohamed Mansour. He donated £5m. The Bamford brothers gave the Tories over £10 million. They and Edwards have been investigated for tax issues.

    Lubov Chernukhin, wife of the former Russian oligarch Vladimir Chernukhin, gave £136k to the Tories under Sunak, and over £2 million historically. Michael Hintze gave them more than £4.5 million and got a peerage.
    Desperate whatabouterry

    Unless you didn't notice the conservative party were decimated at the GE for sleeze and cronyism and Starmer stood tall saying he would end it, and yet he and his fellow cabinet have found themselves under attack from all quarters, not least from within their party and by the unions and now Starmer has fallen below Sunak in popularity

    Your posts try to defend the indefensible by saying the other lot were worse, but the nation has passed judgment on that and now Starmer and his colleagues have been shamed you just do not like it

    Indeed are you Sue Gray in disguise?
    Were the Conservatives decimated "for sleeze [sic] and cronyism"? Issues polling before the election had the top 5 issues as cost of living, health, economy, immigration and the environment. Sleaze did not appear in YouGov's top 15.

    Lord Ashcroft's post-election poll had this on the main reasons voted for Labour: "Just over 6 in 10 (62%) of those who voted Labour said one of their three main reasons was that they thought Labour would do a better job of running the economy. Just over half (57%) said they trusted the motives of Labour more than other parties, while 46% thought Keir Starmer would make a better prime minister."

    It also found: "We asked those who voted Conservative in 2019 but not in 2024 why they moved away from the party. The most important reasons were that “they are out of touch with people like me” (36% naming in the top three), that “they didn’t deliver what they promised” (35%) and that “they’re not competent” (30%), while 28% said “I don’t trust them”. Just over 1 in 5 (21%) chose “partygate and other scandals”."

    So, about a fifth of Conservative defectors did so because of scandals, but it wasn't the main issue for most voters.
    You simply do not get the damage this has done to Labour and no amount of deflection will change the narrative in the public's eyes which already has Starmer below Sunak in popularity

    Maybe reflect and accept it is a terrible story for labour
    Though Starmer still 10 points ahead as best PM. That's how low Tory popularity is. Lower than a snakes belly.
    I see you have few straws left to clutch
    OK, betting question. If one is convinced that Starmer's government is toast after this, how should you bet? You can get 9/4 on Tories most seats at the next election or lay Labour for most seats at 1.99, but that's a while off. Is there a next Labour leader bet worth making? Reeves is joint favourite, albeit only at 8/1, but worth laying her? Or you can lay Reeves as next PM at 15. You can lay Rayner as next PM at 23.
    Of course Labour are in office for 5 years but then so was Johnson with his 80 seat majority and we saw what happened to him and the conservatives

    Starmer is so similar to Sunak - terrible at politics
    So, if the parallel is Johnson, is the sensible play -- if we accept your thesis that Starmer is terrible at politics and fatally wounded -- to bet on next PM and pick someone Labour but who isn't associated with the current scandal?
    If Starmer is Johnson, then his successor must be the improbable Foreign Secretary promoted beyond their level of competence.
  • IanB2 said:

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    Yet I am now in my fifteenth state on my road trip, and have yet to see a single Harris-Walz garden or field poster.
    Harris-Walz ain't wasting money on that stuff, especially in vast rural expanses. Though there are growing numbers of H-W yard-signs in my humble urban hood.

    Back in ancient times (1996) many WA Dems were antsy due to fact that the GOP candidate for Gov had a VERY active & visible yard-and-field sign program.

    But like I told 'em at the time, it's people who vote . . . NOT acres. And in November, Democrat Gary Locke was elected with 58% of the gubernatorial vote, versus 42% for the Republican, one of the GOP's worst results ever in the great Evergreen State.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824
    TimS said:

    RobD said:

    TimS said:

    RobD said:

    TimS said:

    RobD said:

    TimS said:

    Today’s tally of Lib Dem corruption revelations: zero.

    Like yesterday’s. And tomorrow’s.

    Why would anyone bribe the Lib Dems?
    Good, glad we’ve established that. So when you’re extolling the virtues of Reform in due course we can ask the same question.
    Huh? I don’t think I have ever said anything positive about Reform.
    I’ve no idea what your politics are, but everyone seems to have been very keen to explain how all this corruption means that the incorruptible, anti-elite Nigel is going to storm into power. While ignoring the actual 3rd party, as people have been wont to do since the dawn of time.
    I'm certainly not, but you made the lazy assumption I was seemingly based on nothing.
    Were you making any lazy assumptions at all about the Lib Dems?
    My comment was about the relative utility of bribing the Lib Dems compared to the other parties. Doesn't seem worth it, to me.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Glad we cleared that up.

    Q: Are you comfortable with Mark Robinson as the Republican nominee for governor of North Carolina?

    Vance: The allegations are out there, but they aren't necessarily reality

    Q: Do you believe him saying that those were not his posts?

    Vance: I don't not believe him

    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1837877308201308188
This discussion has been closed.