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Donald Trump and knocking up the voters – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,049
edited September 22 in General
Donald Trump and knocking up the voters – politicalbetting.com

Republican activists in swing states say they have seen little sign of the teams tasked with knocking on doors and turning out infrequent voters on behalf of Donald Trump. https://t.co/XaXEq3bvts

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,869
    edited September 22
    Not 1st.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977

    Not 1st.

    Launch a legal challenge. It's the american way.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,609
    We should have seen it coming… Starmer had to be stopped by Corbyn from moonlighting for Mishcon de Reya while in the shadow cabinet.

    https://labourlist.org/2017/07/corbyn-could-rule-on-starmers-second-job-at-brexit-law-firm/
  • I am glad Arteta's shithousery got what it deserved.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    We should have seen it coming… Starmer had to be stopped by Corbyn from moonlighting for Mishcon de Reya while in the shadow cabinet.

    https://labourlist.org/2017/07/corbyn-could-rule-on-starmers-second-job-at-brexit-law-firm/

    I have realised what he reminds me of. A lamprey

    https://www.google.com/search?client=tablet-android-google&sca_esv=acdc81b535f3728c&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWIIFBmqEprw3XdGpP8IqoSxcEjJKoA:1727026801547&q=lamprey
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    I'm on holiday!

    I set off for Lyme Regis first thing tomorrow

    I've been rather doubting the sanity of my decision during the downpours of the last few days

    Don't forget to have a drink at the square & compasses in Worth Matravers.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,154
    At least Jenrick has a modicum of banter:

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1837858059487453603
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,461

    At least Jenrick has a modicum of banter:

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1837858059487453603

    He’s a bit of a joke, certainly
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,907

    I am glad Arteta's shithousery got what it deserved.

    And you don’t think City would have done the same . The referee was determined to ensure City didn’t lose .
  • "The question is why aren’t Team Trump focussing on this?"

    Because, as you may have noticed, the Trump-Vance Flying Squrrel Circus is the most incompetent POTUS campaign in living memory.

    DJT and his MAGA-maggots are even MORE inept than Hillary Clinton & her campaign.

    BTW (also FYI) difference between a MAGA-maniac and a MAGA-maggot, is that the former are true believers (or suspension-of-disbeliefers) while the latter are dedicated to MAGA-mania as a personal profit center.

    NOTE that in 2004, the Cheney-Bush ticket won re-election by (at least) equalling Democratic voter turnout effort.

    For example in Ohio, where Kerry campaign achieved it's turnout goals . . . AND it turned out also did from the other side.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,260

    I am glad Arteta's shithousery got what it deserved.

    You mean you're glad it produced the result Liverpool wanted.

    Another 3 way title battle, I think. Arsenal or Liverpool to win it. City domination over.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,854

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    Lib Dems likewise, Mark. But we could this year, eh?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426

    "The question is why aren’t Team Trump focussing on this?"

    Because, as you may have noticed, the Trump-Vance Flying Squrrel Circus is the most incompetent POTUS campaign in living memory.

    DJT and his MAGA-maggots are even MORE inept than Hillary Clinton & her campaign.

    BTW (also FYI) difference between a MAGA-maniac and a MAGA-maggot, is that the former are true believers (or suspension-of-disbeliefers) while the latter are dedicated to MAGA-mania as a personal profit center.

    NOTE that in 2004, the Cheney-Bush ticket won re-election by (at least) equalling Democratic voter turnout effort.

    For example in Ohio, where Kerry campaign achieved it's turnout goals . . . AND it turned out also did from the other side.

    I think it clear that all the MAGA maggots are also MAGA maniacs - DJT apparently believes his own bullshit.

    This is very common with such “leaders” - the self belief is a necessary part of the circus act.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,471
    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    As I have said, he is gay and was instrumental in getting Cameron's gay marriage act passed. He is active in the LGBT Foundation which seems to be mainly T (other battles having been largely won). I think the big prize he is after is a change to gender recognition law.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,879
    edited September 22
    FPT:
    Leon said:

    OK HERE’S A PUZZLER FOR A SLIGHTLY BORING SUNDAY

    How come some art forms can be enjoyed again and again - yet others are consumed once and that’s it?

    I don’t reread novels. The only novel I have ever read twice is Joyce’s Ulysses, it’s the only one good enough to be read more than once

    Yet I will reread favourite poems multiple times

    I don’t rewatch plays. Once and that’s it. Yet I will look at a favourite painting quite a lot

    I seldom rewatch tv or movies. Maybe twice if they’re really good

    Yet a fantastic piece of music is indestructibly repeatable. I can listen to Strauss’ Im Abendrot or Michelle Shocked’s Anchorage again and again and again without loss of joy. The joy maybe grows

    Why?

    That's a really interesting question.

    Sometimes I have read a book several times to engage with it from different angles or via different means, or perhaps as a group. It might apply to things from a different cultural background where there are layers to work through.

    I've occasionally done that trying to approach older or newer spiritual or intellectual classics, or where a book is the hinge to understand a community. One interesting one from my younger adulthood was The Gravedigger File, which was a kind of Screwtape Letters for modernism.

    I often reread sections, to remind myself, or refocus, or if there are threads to untangle or appreciate. Or if the author has distilled their worldview and poured themselves into the book, and I'm interested.

    I listen repeatedly to "Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps .." by Doris Day, but that's because I know it as the Planning Permission Song, so it's a link I have (very) sometimes sent to Planning Officers when they are pfaffing or recalcitrant.

    Of current political reads, I think I may return to sections Potholes and Pavements, by Laura Laker, because of its scope and integration of themes. By all accounts it has had some impact informing some areas of thinking of our new Transport Minister.
  • Ugh, this is why I hate the working class, so bloody entitled.

    Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner, who's been an MP since 2015, says that she had to accept donations of expensive clothing from a wealthy party donor because "I was from a very working class background" #bbclaurak

    https://x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1837778927160324400
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,776
    Lack of enthusiasm is part of it, I think ?

    They do it every rally now. It’s just the same tired old garbage every speech for 8 years. After you heard the Hannibal Lecter, Al Capone, windmills, sharks, and electric boat motor stories 50 times it’s starts to get old. Nobody knows that better than me.
    https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1837626928053788995
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Add it all up - it’s really not very expensive to rent an entire government.

    If he is smart, he won’t have asked for anything.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,027
    edited September 22
    nico679 said:

    I am glad Arteta's shithousery got what it deserved.

    And you don’t think City would have done the same . The referee was determined to ensure City didn’t lose .
    Good evening

    I do not support either City or Arsenal, but certainly Arsenal were excellent in the first half but their second half display, despite being down to 10, of stonewalling and theatrical play acting with general time wasting got exactly what it deserved

    And as for your comment on the referee that is simply a bitter response to the result

    The title will between City - Arsenal, and possibly Liverpool, but I still think City will make it 5 titles in a row but what happens post the investigation into their alleged rule breaking who knows that the runners up to City over the last 10 years or so may suddenly find they are awarded the trophy for that year by default
  • The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Add it all up - it’s really not very expensive to rent an entire government.

    If he is smart, he won’t have asked for anything.
    Gives you a lot more access / contacts willing to answer your calls than just writing a £500k cheque to central party.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,366
    edited September 22

    Ugh, this is why I hate the working class, so bloody entitled.

    Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner, who's been an MP since 2015, says that she had to accept donations of expensive clothing from a wealthy party donor because "I was from a very working class background" #bbclaurak

    https://x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1837778927160324400

    Anybody would think they were on minimum wage or on the rock n roll and were asking Timpson's to fix up their shoes for free for an upcoming interview.

    Wasn't Big Ange last month filmed in a very expensive night club in Ibiza? Obviously only just making ends meet so needs a frock from the charity shop for her night out.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369

    Ugh, this is why I hate the working class, so bloody entitled.

    Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner, who's been an MP since 2015, says that she had to accept donations of expensive clothing from a wealthy party donor because "I was from a very working class background" #bbclaurak

    https://x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1837778927160324400

    Just a tragedy that she didn’t also get the stylist and personal shopper that Lady Starmer got.
  • "The question is why aren’t Team Trump focussing on this?"

    Because, as you may have noticed, the Trump-Vance Flying Squrrel Circus is the most incompetent POTUS campaign in living memory.

    DJT and his MAGA-maggots are even MORE inept than Hillary Clinton & her campaign.

    BTW (also FYI) difference between a MAGA-maniac and a MAGA-maggot, is that the former are true believers (or suspension-of-disbeliefers) while the latter are dedicated to MAGA-mania as a personal profit center.

    NOTE that in 2004, the Cheney-Bush ticket won re-election by (at least) equalling Democratic voter turnout effort.

    For example in Ohio, where Kerry campaign achieved it's turnout goals . . . AND it turned out also did from the other side.

    I think it clear that all the MAGA maggots are also MAGA maniacs - DJT apparently believes his own bullshit.

    This is very common with such “leaders” - the self belief is a necessary part of the circus act.
    NOT all . . . Lindsey Graham ain't no true believer in anything, methinks, except (perhaps) in Lindsey Graham?
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 756
    Music wriggles inside us so it demands further listening. It wriggles so far inside us that if it were invented today, it would be made illegal, and it should be. Dusty Springfield has me in a hostage situation at the moment. If I listen to Rachmaninoff I become wired for days on end. Music is dangerous.

    A film, you get it or you don't. There are some where you see new things on each rewatch, but that's an exception, I think.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,206

    Ugh, this is why I hate the working class, so bloody entitled.

    Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner, who's been an MP since 2015, says that she had to accept donations of expensive clothing from a wealthy party donor because "I was from a very working class background" #bbclaurak

    https://x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1837778927160324400

    Anybody would think they were on minimum wage or on the rock n roll and were asking Timpson's to fix up their shoes for free for an upcoming interview.

    Wasn't Big Ange last month filmed in a very expensive night club in Ibiza?
    Its the £14k for Phillipsons birthday party sticks out for me.
  • Anybody listening to Radiohead live at Glastonbury more than once needs their heads examined.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,366
    edited September 22



    Ugh, this is why I hate the working class, so bloody entitled.

    Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner, who's been an MP since 2015, says that she had to accept donations of expensive clothing from a wealthy party donor because "I was from a very working class background" #bbclaurak

    https://x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1837778927160324400

    Anybody would think they were on minimum wage or on the rock n roll and were asking Timpson's to fix up their shoes for free for an upcoming interview.

    Wasn't Big Ange last month filmed in a very expensive night club in Ibiza?
    Its the £14k for Phillipsons birthday party sticks out for me.
    It better have been a top quality knees up. She also blamed her kids for taking freebie Taylor Swift tickets.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,162
    edited September 22
    The government look to have been bought lock, stock and barrel by Lord Waheed Alli.

    While Sue Gray seems about popular as syphillis, and her much heralded “100-day plan” presumably exists only in her imagination.

    The (soft-left) FT has yet another article about wealthy taxpayers fleeing the UK. Ho-hum.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977

    I think the first chapter of "Going Postal" by Pratchett is the finest piece of comic writing I've read, and it concerns a hanging. And I love Wodehouse, S J Perelman, Damon Runyon, Alan Coren and many others.

    One of his best books, I recommend it to many people as a Pratchett starter. Hilarious, great characters, wacky, but still hitting serious and emotional moments to give it impact.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977

    The government look to have been bought lock, stock and barrel by Lord Waheed Alli.

    At bargain prices too.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,027
    edited September 22

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Sue Gray apparently awarded him the pass to no 10 after he handed £10,000 to her son to stand for labour and he won

    This whole 'freebiegate' has made labour look as bad as the conserrvatives in the public eyes and who would have thought Starmer popularity would collapse below Sunak in just a few weeks

    The interviews with Rayner and Philipson on todays morning media shows were more car crashes and now the Unions are to put forward a motion to reinstate WFA to the floor of conference on the same day Reeves gives her keynote speech

    How on earth has labour got into this mess and more importantly for them the danger is it will define them in the eyes of the public and reaffirmn the view they are all the same
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,162
    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Sue Gray apparently awarded him the pass to no 10 after he handed £10,000 to her son to stand for labour and he won

    This whole 'freebiegate' has made labour look as bad as the conserrvatives in the public eyes and who would have thought Starmer popularity would collapse below Sunak in just a few weeks

    The interviews with Rayner and Philipson on todays morning media shows were more car crashes and now the Unions are to put forward a motion to reinstate WFA to the floor of conference on the same day Reeves gives her keynote speech

    How on earth has labour got into this mess and more importantly for them the danger is it will define them in the eyes of the public and reaffirmn the view they are all the same
    Oh Big G, don’t forget, Starmer is a TOP lawyer, he must be super intelligent and worthy so this must all be something he planned as part of being whiter than white and fixing the country with a growth agenda and grown up politics. Don’t despair.


  • Ugh, this is why I hate the working class, so bloody entitled.

    Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner, who's been an MP since 2015, says that she had to accept donations of expensive clothing from a wealthy party donor because "I was from a very working class background" #bbclaurak

    https://x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1837778927160324400

    Anybody would think they were on minimum wage or on the rock n roll and were asking Timpson's to fix up their shoes for free for an upcoming interview.

    Wasn't Big Ange last month filmed in a very expensive night club in Ibiza?
    Its the £14k for Phillipsons birthday party sticks out for me.
    It was 2 birthday parties and she has also said she accepted Taylor Swift concert tickets as her daughter wanted to go

    I wonder what happened to the last senior politician that attended a party and apparently didnt even have any cake ?
  • Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Given some of previous incumbents, I presumed it was part of the job requirement.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,643
    Evening all :)

    Not much comment on the Brandenburg State Election result I see?

    Excellent result for the SPD who, having looked down and out, rallied and have just outpolled AfD - the CDU has had a poor night finishing fourth behind the Bundris Sahra Wagenknecht (BSW).

    The latest estimate (as of 7pm BST):

    SPD 30.7% (+4.5) 32 seats
    AfD 29.6% (+6.1) 30 seats
    BSW: 13.1% (+13.1) 14 seats
    CDU 12.1% (-3.5) 12 seats
    Greens 4.6% (-6.2) 0 seats
    Linke 2.9% (-7,8) 0 seats

    The SPD/CDU coalition has 44 seats which should be enough for the governing coalition to carry on.

    Changes from the last Landtag election.

    It's a personal triumph for the SPD leader Minister-President Dietmar Woidke who basically turned the election into a straight choice - him or AfD and there was clear tactical voting to shore up the SPD numbers.

    It may also be the BSW will join what is being called a "blackberry coalition" with the CDU and the SPD.

    It will be interesting to see if the idea of a blackberry coalition gets any traction at Federal level with the Bundestag elections barely a year away.

    The latest Federal opinion poll had the Union on 32%, AfD on 20%, SPD on 15% and both Greens and BSW on 10% making a CDU/SPD coalition a possibility.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    This is why I am counting down to budget day in sleeps. Only language these people understand.
  • boulay said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Sue Gray apparently awarded him the pass to no 10 after he handed £10,000 to her son to stand for labour and he won

    This whole 'freebiegate' has made labour look as bad as the conserrvatives in the public eyes and who would have thought Starmer popularity would collapse below Sunak in just a few weeks

    The interviews with Rayner and Philipson on todays morning media shows were more car crashes and now the Unions are to put forward a motion to reinstate WFA to the floor of conference on the same day Reeves gives her keynote speech

    How on earth has labour got into this mess and more importantly for them the danger is it will define them in the eyes of the public and reaffirmn the view they are all the same
    Oh Big G, don’t forget, Starmer is a TOP lawyer, he must be super intelligent and worthy so this must all be something he planned as part of being whiter than white and fixing the country with a growth agenda and grown up politics. Don’t despair.
    Indeed - he who is without sin first cast the stone comes to mind
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369

    boulay said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Sue Gray apparently awarded him the pass to no 10 after he handed £10,000 to her son to stand for labour and he won

    This whole 'freebiegate' has made labour look as bad as the conserrvatives in the public eyes and who would have thought Starmer popularity would collapse below Sunak in just a few weeks

    The interviews with Rayner and Philipson on todays morning media shows were more car crashes and now the Unions are to put forward a motion to reinstate WFA to the floor of conference on the same day Reeves gives her keynote speech

    How on earth has labour got into this mess and more importantly for them the danger is it will define them in the eyes of the public and reaffirmn the view they are all the same
    Oh Big G, don’t forget, Starmer is a TOP lawyer, he must be super intelligent and worthy so this must all be something he planned as part of being whiter than white and fixing the country with a growth agenda and grown up politics. Don’t despair.
    Indeed - he who is without sin first cast the stone comes to mind
    To be fair, they are waiting for Lord Ali to buy the stones so that’s still to come.
  • TOP STORY here in Seattle today . . .

    Seattle Times - Former WA Gov. Dan Evans dies at 98

    SSI - Will spare you the actual obituary, which is hagiography and NOT especially insightful.

    Wiki bio is better
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_J._Evans

    The term "Dan Evans Republican" means the same thing in WA State as "Nelson Rockefeller Republican" used to mean nationally = moderate GOPers. Basically extinct today, having morped into Democrats (or Dem-leaning Independents) over the last generation.

    Just to demonstrate appeal of Dan Evans for WA voters, in 1964 he was elected to his first of three terms as Gov (first ever gubernatorial hat trick in state history), he won by margin of over 150k votes over the Democratic incumbent . . . on same statewide ballot that saw LBJ beat AuH2O by nearly 310k.
    One heck of a cross-over vote!

    Gov. Evans then went on to do many positive things for education, transportation, the environment, etc. etc. in WA State. Including taking back the state Republican Party from the John Birchers (proto MAGA-maniacs) who managed to capture it during the Goldwater 1964 primary campaign.

    Dan Evans is today best known, especially to younger generation plus newcomers, as the namesake of the University of Washington's Dan Evans School of Public Policy.

    Will be interested to see if Jim Miller, a native Washingtonian, has any thoughts on the passing of Dan The Man - hope so!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,366
    edited September 22
    boulay said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Sue Gray apparently awarded him the pass to no 10 after he handed £10,000 to her son to stand for labour and he won

    This whole 'freebiegate' has made labour look as bad as the conserrvatives in the public eyes and who would have thought Starmer popularity would collapse below Sunak in just a few weeks

    The interviews with Rayner and Philipson on todays morning media shows were more car crashes and now the Unions are to put forward a motion to reinstate WFA to the floor of conference on the same day Reeves gives her keynote speech

    How on earth has labour got into this mess and more importantly for them the danger is it will define them in the eyes of the public and reaffirmn the view they are all the same
    Oh Big G, don’t forget, Starmer is a TOP lawyer, he must be super intelligent and worthy so this must all be something he planned as part of being whiter than white and fixing the country with a growth agenda and grown up politics. Don’t despair.
    Given how many f##k ups the CPS seemed to have made when Starmer was in charge, makes you wonder just how good he is at running anything.

    I still can't believe the William Roche case. Mind blowing that got to court. So many red flags, wrong car, wrong house, provable on set when accusation occurred, one of the accusations, the police let the husband sit in and then talk over the woman making the claims.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369

    boulay said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Sue Gray apparently awarded him the pass to no 10 after he handed £10,000 to her son to stand for labour and he won

    This whole 'freebiegate' has made labour look as bad as the conserrvatives in the public eyes and who would have thought Starmer popularity would collapse below Sunak in just a few weeks

    The interviews with Rayner and Philipson on todays morning media shows were more car crashes and now the Unions are to put forward a motion to reinstate WFA to the floor of conference on the same day Reeves gives her keynote speech

    How on earth has labour got into this mess and more importantly for them the danger is it will define them in the eyes of the public and reaffirmn the view they are all the same
    Oh Big G, don’t forget, Starmer is a TOP lawyer, he must be super intelligent and worthy so this must all be something he planned as part of being whiter than white and fixing the country with a growth agenda and grown up politics. Don’t despair.
    Given how many f##k ups the CPS seemed to have made when Starmer was in charge, makes you wonder just how good he is at running anything.
    What are you on about, he’s a forensic lawyer, he’s brilliant. And his dad made tools. And he might have been the inspiration for someone in Bridget Jones.
  • boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Hopefully for her there is someone she knows who has a nice bolt hole in a smart part of New York so she can escape the furore for £150 per night. Maybe she could ask Angela if she knows anyone.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,879

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Add it all up - it’s really not very expensive to rent an entire government.

    If he is smart, he won’t have asked for anything.
    Lord Ali is imo perhaps looking potentially overexposed.

    Has he been in Private Eye very often?
  • With respect to the passing of WA State's first three-term governor, it has occured at the tail end of the the final term of WA State's second third-termer, current Gov. Jay Inslee.

    Which (for some reason) reminds me, that the late Cecil Underwood of West Virginia, was both the youngest governor in the history of the great Mountain State (1957-61) as well as the OLDEST gov (1997-2001).
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,162
    You can, if you want to be extremely charitable, argue that these donations have each been relatively trivial, if not everyday.

    It’s not as if any other party does anything different.

    But the fact they all come from Lord Alli, who was given a Downing Street pass by the woman whose son - now MP for Beckenham and Penge - received 10k for campaigning expenses…

    And then to have Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and Philippson each do a media round and utterly fail to come up with a coherent story beggars belief.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,743

    TOP STORY here in Seattle today . . .

    Seattle Times - Former WA Gov. Dan Evans dies at 98

    SSI - Will spare you the actual obituary, which is hagiography and NOT especially insightful.

    Wiki bio is better
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_J._Evans

    The term "Dan Evans Republican" means the same thing in WA State as "Nelson Rockefeller Republican" used to mean nationally = moderate GOPers. Basically extinct today, having morped into Democrats (or Dem-leaning Independents) over the last generation.

    Just to demonstrate appeal of Dan Evans for WA voters, in 1964 he was elected to his first of three terms as Gov (first ever gubernatorial hat trick in state history), he won by margin of over 150k votes over the Democratic incumbent . . . on same statewide ballot that saw LBJ beat AuH2O by nearly 310k.
    One heck of a cross-over vote!

    Gov. Evans then went on to do many positive things for education, transportation, the environment, etc. etc. in WA State. Including taking back the state Republican Party from the John Birchers (proto MAGA-maniacs) who managed to capture it during the Goldwater 1964 primary campaign.

    Dan Evans is today best known, especially to younger generation plus newcomers, as the namesake of the University of Washington's Dan Evans School of Public Policy.

    Will be interested to see if Jim Miller, a native Washingtonian, has any thoughts on the passing of Dan The Man - hope so!

    I would be interested on your thoughts and @Jim_Miller on my header in the previous thread.

    As bone fide Americans, do you think I was even close?
  • Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    I think sometimes they forget they are not in confessional and the BBC has not taken a vow of silence. It was the same with the last lot and Calais and Northern Ireland. I've seen it suggested that Phillipson was grinning to her interviewer, Trevor Phillips, because he had actually been there, but true or not she ought to have known better. Some stories are best saved for the memoirs.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,753
    edited September 22
    the bbc website currently has in its top five articles a piece on two woman who think Trump staged the two attempted murders of him. Really BBC ????? WTF are you playing at ? you admit half way down the article there is no evidence for this so WTF are you giving it so much prominence or any at all - Do you want to be a conspiracy theory host ? Very amateur especially with the pains it goes to to "verify" other staff
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,366
    edited September 22

    You can, if you want to be extremely charitable, argue that these donations have each been relatively trivial, if not everyday.

    It’s not as if any other party does anything different.

    But the fact they all come from Lord Alli, who was given a Downing Street pass by the woman whose son - now MP for Beckenham and Penge - received 10k for campaigning expenses…

    And then to have Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and Philippson each do a media round and utterly fail to come up with a coherent story beggars belief.

    Starmer made this thing blow up with his, I am not interested, go away, I will carry on taking freebies if I like as not against the rules, people will say its all fair dos, all in a lawyerly way that he thinks is really clever but hiding some of the detail, but he isn't in a court of law, its the court of public opinion.

    I think back to Cameron dealt with expenses, he came out and got the tone right. Now that was far far worse, but he managed to insulate himself somewhat by getting out the gate with the correct response.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,643

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    I'm much less bothered about whatever "largesse" they've received than how they are going to help those pensions on the wrong side of the cliff edge and losing the winter fuel allowance.

    Are we seriously expecting each MP who attended Taylor Swift on a ticket provided to pay the full cost of the ticket - let's ask Prince William to stump up for his ticket while we're about it?

    Let's not forget the grift of the previous administration - should we ask someone about the money shelled out on PPE contracts?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,609

    the bbc website currently has in its top five articles a piece on two woman who think Trump staged the two attempted murders of him. Really BBC ????? WTF are you playing at ? you admit half way down the article there is no evidence for this so WTF are you giving it so much prominence or any at all - Do you want to be a conspiracy theory host ? Very amateur especially with the pains it goes to to "verify" other staff

    To fair it is written by their "disinformation correspondent" who obvious takes her job very seriously.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,706

    the bbc website currently has in its top five articles a piece on two woman who think Trump staged the two attempted murders of him. Really BBC ????? WTF are you playing at ? you admit half way down the article there is no evidence for this so WTF are you giving it so much prominence or any at all - Do you want to be a conspiracy theory host ? Very amateur especially with the pains it goes to to "verify" other staff

    I thought that listing was based on the number of clicks? Maybe have to blame the audience?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    I think sometimes they forget they are not in confessional and the BBC has not taken a vow of silence. It was the same with the last lot and Calais and Northern Ireland. I've seen it suggested that Phillipson was grinning to her interviewer, Trevor Phillips, because he had actually been there, but true or not she ought to have known better. Some stories are best saved for the memoirs.
    There was a story, years ago. That a presenter was going to ask a Tory cabinet minister about people taking coke at a diner party he was at.

    The presenter was apparently shocker when the cabinet minister said, fine, say that. But I will then recount the time you *took* cocaine in front of me.


  • Ugh, this is why I hate the working class, so bloody entitled.

    Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner, who's been an MP since 2015, says that she had to accept donations of expensive clothing from a wealthy party donor because "I was from a very working class background" #bbclaurak

    https://x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1837778927160324400

    Anybody would think they were on minimum wage or on the rock n roll and were asking Timpson's to fix up their shoes for free for an upcoming interview.

    Wasn't Big Ange last month filmed in a very expensive night club in Ibiza?
    Its the £14k for Phillipsons birthday party sticks out for me.
    It was 2 birthday parties and she has also said she accepted Taylor Swift concert tickets as her daughter wanted to go

    I wonder what happened to the last senior politician that attended a party and apparently didnt even have any cake ?
    You mean the chap who ran into problems declaring who paid for his free holiday, and his actually free holiday? Back to my thesis that lawyer Starmer thinks it was Boris not fully declaring freebies that was wrong, rather than his accepting them in the first place.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    MattW said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Add it all up - it’s really not very expensive to rent an entire government.

    If he is smart, he won’t have asked for anything.
    Lord Ali is imo perhaps looking potentially overexposed.

    Has he been in Private Eye very often?
    He will be. He’s going to get a whole issue to himself, I reckon.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,353

    The Dems have a much better ground game than the Republicans. Couldn't use it in 2020 because of Covid...

    This is going to be a blow out for Kamala.

    The momentum is with her.
    The polls are a lagging indicator.
    The Dems ground game is much better.
    Young women are motivated (Taylor Swift)
    There will be a herd effect in swing states among the undecided as it becomes clear that Kamala is the winner.

    You can get 25 on 360+ ECs on Betfair. Unlikely but 360+ is not unusual.

    Nixon 520 in 1972
    Reagan 489 in 1980 and 535 in 1984
    Bush 426 in 1988
    Clinton 370 in 1992 and 379 in 1996
    Obama 365 in 2008

    It's not a normal distribution. When it blows, it blows. And it's gonna blow!

  • TomWTomW Posts: 70

    boulay said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Sue Gray apparently awarded him the pass to no 10 after he handed £10,000 to her son to stand for labour and he won

    This whole 'freebiegate' has made labour look as bad as the conserrvatives in the public eyes and who would have thought Starmer popularity would collapse below Sunak in just a few weeks

    The interviews with Rayner and Philipson on todays morning media shows were more car crashes and now the Unions are to put forward a motion to reinstate WFA to the floor of conference on the same day Reeves gives her keynote speech

    How on earth has labour got into this mess and more importantly for them the danger is it will define them in the eyes of the public and reaffirmn the view they are all the same
    Oh Big G, don’t forget, Starmer is a TOP lawyer, he must be super intelligent and worthy so this must all be something he planned as part of being whiter than white and fixing the country with a growth agenda and grown up politics. Don’t despair.
    Given how many f##k ups the CPS seemed to have made when Starmer was in charge, makes you wonder just how good he is at running anything.

    I still can't believe the William Roche case. Mind blowing that got to court. So many red flags, wrong car, wrong house, provable on set when accusation occurred, one of the accusations, the police let the husband sit in and then talk over the woman making the claims.
    He presided over that whole celebrity sex trials witchhunt with nonsense like Dave Lee Travis groped me 20 years ago. However i reckon the true motive for this witchhunt for Starmer was sexual jealousy...this is a man who didnt seem to have much success with women as a young man and he wanted to pull other men down.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    Hopefully for her there is someone she knows who has a nice bolt hole in a smart part of New York so she can escape the furore for £150 per night. Maybe she could ask Angela if she knows anyone.
    Maybe ask Jas Athwal? He is really clued in on the property rental sector.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,879
    edited September 22
    MattW said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Add it all up - it’s really not very expensive to rent an entire government.

    If he is smart, he won’t have asked for anything.
    Lord Ali is imo perhaps looking potentially overexposed.

    Has he been in Private Eye very often?
    Spelling - Alli / Ali.

    My keyboard is too debounced.
  • Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    I think sometimes they forget they are not in confessional and the BBC has not taken a vow of silence. It was the same with the last lot and Calais and Northern Ireland. I've seen it suggested that Phillipson was grinning to her interviewer, Trevor Phillips, because he had actually been there, but true or not she ought to have known better. Some stories are best saved for the memoirs.
    There was a story, years ago. That a presenter was going to ask a Tory cabinet minister about people taking coke at a diner party he was at.

    The presenter was apparently shocker when the cabinet minister said, fine, say that. But I will then recount the time you *took* cocaine in front of me.
    The faux shock of the media "discovering" Govey had tried the Columbian marching powder....who was in the media when he did it, at their parties.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    TomW said:

    boulay said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Sue Gray apparently awarded him the pass to no 10 after he handed £10,000 to her son to stand for labour and he won

    This whole 'freebiegate' has made labour look as bad as the conserrvatives in the public eyes and who would have thought Starmer popularity would collapse below Sunak in just a few weeks

    The interviews with Rayner and Philipson on todays morning media shows were more car crashes and now the Unions are to put forward a motion to reinstate WFA to the floor of conference on the same day Reeves gives her keynote speech

    How on earth has labour got into this mess and more importantly for them the danger is it will define them in the eyes of the public and reaffirmn the view they are all the same
    Oh Big G, don’t forget, Starmer is a TOP lawyer, he must be super intelligent and worthy so this must all be something he planned as part of being whiter than white and fixing the country with a growth agenda and grown up politics. Don’t despair.
    Given how many f##k ups the CPS seemed to have made when Starmer was in charge, makes you wonder just how good he is at running anything.

    I still can't believe the William Roche case. Mind blowing that got to court. So many red flags, wrong car, wrong house, provable on set when accusation occurred, one of the accusations, the police let the husband sit in and then talk over the woman making the claims.
    He presided over that whole celebrity sex trials witchhunt with nonsense like Dave Lee Travis groped me 20 years ago. However i reckon the true motive for this witchhunt for Starmer was sexual jealousy...this is a man who didnt seem to have much success with women as a young man and he wanted to pull other men down.
    Oh, I forgot to ask - how did your very hetro gym session go? Lots of thigh slapping?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369
    stodge said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    I'm much less bothered about whatever "largesse" they've received than how they are going to help those pensions on the wrong side of the cliff edge and losing the winter fuel allowance.

    Are we seriously expecting each MP who attended Taylor Swift on a ticket provided to pay the full cost of the ticket - let's ask Prince William to stump up for his ticket while we're about it?

    Let's not forget the grift of the previous administration - should we ask someone about the money shelled out on PPE contracts?
    Christ the Prince William comparison is dumb. Politicians who can make and change laws are completely different to figureheads who are politically neutral.

    Nobody forgets the sins of the previous administrations, the Ecclestone affair and onwards - it doesn’t make the cheap shitshow that is current somehow ok. In fact the tragic cheapness of it is worse - bought for clothes, football matches and pop concerts. It wouldn’t be an issue if they hadn’t been such pious, holier than though pricks about Boris, Covid parties, Rishi in helicopters, etc.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    MattW said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Add it all up - it’s really not very expensive to rent an entire government.

    If he is smart, he won’t have asked for anything.
    Lord Ali is imo perhaps looking potentially overexposed.

    Has he been in Private Eye very often?
    He is notably gay and activist about it (and not notable for much else), trans rights is in the air, if (IF) you can magically get a bill brought forward it's likely to be free votes and likely to pass with a labour majority and even more so with a bought and paid for labour majority.

    I feel a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of dots suddenly cried out in terror "join us together."
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,103
    edited September 22
    Nigelb said:

    Lack of enthusiasm is part of it, I think ?

    They do it every rally now. It’s just the same tired old garbage every speech for 8 years. After you heard the Hannibal Lecter, Al Capone, windmills, sharks, and electric boat motor stories 50 times it’s starts to get old. Nobody knows that better than me.
    https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1837626928053788995

    This is why Rishi lost to Liz Truss first time round. His speech about working in his mum's pharmacy was the same every time. He did not realise the audience had watched all the other hustings so could sing along with him. Liz Truss knew and varied hers with local references and the promise of a dual carriageway.

    Sure, Trump's audience wants the greatest hits but not a tribute band.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,366
    edited September 22

    the bbc website currently has in its top five articles a piece on two woman who think Trump staged the two attempted murders of him. Really BBC ????? WTF are you playing at ? you admit half way down the article there is no evidence for this so WTF are you giving it so much prominence or any at all - Do you want to be a conspiracy theory host ? Very amateur especially with the pains it goes to to "verify" other staff

    Do you not remember their big splash on the bots for Reform story during the GE campaign that led the 10 o clock news....that when you read / listened carefully was one account with 13 followers (that bit they missed out) that was probably a bot (a bot on twitter, never) and a handful of real people who were just very keen fans of Farage.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,609
    edited September 22
    Andy_JS said:
    Catastrophic loss of support for the Greens among young people:

    https://x.com/europeelects/status/1837925337302229310

    image
  • glwglw Posts: 9,799

    You can, if you want to be extremely charitable, argue that these donations have each been relatively trivial, if not everyday.

    It’s not as if any other party does anything different.

    But the fact they all come from Lord Alli, who was given a Downing Street pass by the woman whose son - now MP for Beckenham and Penge - received 10k for campaigning expenses…

    And then to have Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and Philippson each do a media round and utterly fail to come up with a coherent story beggars belief.

    Starmer made this thing blow up with his, I am not interested, go away, I will carry on taking freebies if I like as not against the rules, people will say its all fair dos, all in a lawyerly way that he thinks is really clever but hiding some of the detail, but he isn't in a court of law, its the court of public opinion.

    I think back to Cameron dealt with expenses, he came out and got the tone right. Now that was far far worse, but he managed to insulate himself somewhat by getting out the gate with the correct response.
    Cameron is a much better politician than Starmer, probably second only to Blair in living memory. Frankly I'm starting to think Sunak is a better politician than Starmer, and political nous was Sunak's biggest weakness.
  • Foxy said:

    TOP STORY here in Seattle today . . .

    Seattle Times - Former WA Gov. Dan Evans dies at 98

    SSI - Will spare you the actual obituary, which is hagiography and NOT especially insightful.

    Wiki bio is better
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_J._Evans

    The term "Dan Evans Republican" means the same thing in WA State as "Nelson Rockefeller Republican" used to mean nationally = moderate GOPers. Basically extinct today, having morped into Democrats (or Dem-leaning Independents) over the last generation.

    Just to demonstrate appeal of Dan Evans for WA voters, in 1964 he was elected to his first of three terms as Gov (first ever gubernatorial hat trick in state history), he won by margin of over 150k votes over the Democratic incumbent . . . on same statewide ballot that saw LBJ beat AuH2O by nearly 310k.
    One heck of a cross-over vote!

    Gov. Evans then went on to do many positive things for education, transportation, the environment, etc. etc. in WA State. Including taking back the state Republican Party from the John Birchers (proto MAGA-maniacs) who managed to capture it during the Goldwater 1964 primary campaign.

    Dan Evans is today best known, especially to younger generation plus newcomers, as the namesake of the University of Washington's Dan Evans School of Public Policy.

    Will be interested to see if Jim Miller, a native Washingtonian, has any thoughts on the passing of Dan The Man - hope so!

    I would be interested on your thoughts and @Jim_Miller on my header in the previous thread.

    As bone fide Americans, do you think I was even close?
    Don't know about JM, but would concur with approx 95% of your analysis; one specific quibble is that "speaking in tongues" is NOT part of the theology of most Evangelicals in USA. Also note that Evangelicalism corrolates pretty strongly (though perhaps not as much as half-century ago) with lower socio-economic status compared with (traditionally anyway) "main line" Protestantism.

    Also note the political shift of most of US South from Democratic > Republican political identification and allegiance in the half-century since the Civil RIghts Revolution. PLUS shift of the key partisan fault line, from economic perspectives and policy (for example, business versus labor) to social perspectives and policies (for example, anti-abortion versus pro-choice).
  • the bbc website currently has in its top five articles a piece on two woman who think Trump staged the two attempted murders of him. Really BBC ????? WTF are you playing at ? you admit half way down the article there is no evidence for this so WTF are you giving it so much prominence or any at all - Do you want to be a conspiracy theory host ? Very amateur especially with the pains it goes to to "verify" other staff

    You missed the byline. The story is by the BBC's disinformation correspondent The story is not about fake assassination attempts but about how the conspiracy theories spread and why people believe them.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvglm0rjy2go
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426

    the bbc website currently has in its top five articles a piece on two woman who think Trump staged the two attempted murders of him. Really BBC ????? WTF are you playing at ? you admit half way down the article there is no evidence for this so WTF are you giving it so much prominence or any at all - Do you want to be a conspiracy theory host ? Very amateur especially with the pains it goes to to "verify" other staff

    You missed the byline. The story is by the BBC's disinformation correspondent The story is not about fake assassination attempts but about how the conspiracy theories spread and why people believe them.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvglm0rjy2go
    Disinformation corespondent, you say?

    When I was very young, I asked my father if there was such a thing as an Immoral Philosopher. Yes, he said, Bertrand Russell was a pioneer in that field.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,366
    edited September 22
    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    I'm much less bothered about whatever "largesse" they've received than how they are going to help those pensions on the wrong side of the cliff edge and losing the winter fuel allowance.

    Are we seriously expecting each MP who attended Taylor Swift on a ticket provided to pay the full cost of the ticket - let's ask Prince William to stump up for his ticket while we're about it?

    Let's not forget the grift of the previous administration - should we ask someone about the money shelled out on PPE contracts?
    Christ the Prince William comparison is dumb. Politicians who can make and change laws are completely different to figureheads who are politically neutral.

    Nobody forgets the sins of the previous administrations, the Ecclestone affair and onwards - it doesn’t make the cheap shitshow that is current somehow ok. In fact the tragic cheapness of it is worse - bought for clothes, football matches and pop concerts. It wouldn’t be an issue if they hadn’t been such pious, holier than though pricks about Boris, Covid parties, Rishi in helicopters, etc.
    The scandal has blown up for several reasons, one Starmer making a huge play of him being it in for service not the money, the shear scale of the freebies has has taken (he is worse than a z-list reality star), his reaction to being asked about it and the fact its always the same guy who got a pass they shouldn't have.

    If it had been a couple of tickets to Taylor Swift from Ms Swift management company and England footy tickets from the FA nobody would be excited by it.
  • TomW said:

    boulay said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Sue Gray apparently awarded him the pass to no 10 after he handed £10,000 to her son to stand for labour and he won

    This whole 'freebiegate' has made labour look as bad as the conserrvatives in the public eyes and who would have thought Starmer popularity would collapse below Sunak in just a few weeks

    The interviews with Rayner and Philipson on todays morning media shows were more car crashes and now the Unions are to put forward a motion to reinstate WFA to the floor of conference on the same day Reeves gives her keynote speech

    How on earth has labour got into this mess and more importantly for them the danger is it will define them in the eyes of the public and reaffirmn the view they are all the same
    Oh Big G, don’t forget, Starmer is a TOP lawyer, he must be super intelligent and worthy so this must all be something he planned as part of being whiter than white and fixing the country with a growth agenda and grown up politics. Don’t despair.
    Given how many f##k ups the CPS seemed to have made when Starmer was in charge, makes you wonder just how good he is at running anything.

    I still can't believe the William Roche case. Mind blowing that got to court. So many red flags, wrong car, wrong house, provable on set when accusation occurred, one of the accusations, the police let the husband sit in and then talk over the woman making the claims.
    He presided over that whole celebrity sex trials witchhunt with nonsense like Dave Lee Travis groped me 20 years ago. However i reckon the true motive for this witchhunt for Starmer was sexual jealousy...this is a man who didnt seem to have much success with women as a young man and he wanted to pull other men down.
    Oh, I forgot to ask - how did your very hetro gym session go? Lots of thigh slapping?
    Aren't trials in UK presided over by judges NOT prosecutors?

    Quite unlike the situation in Uncle Tomsky's neck of the woods!
  • TomWTomW Posts: 70

    TomW said:

    boulay said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Sue Gray apparently awarded him the pass to no 10 after he handed £10,000 to her son to stand for labour and he won

    This whole 'freebiegate' has made labour look as bad as the conserrvatives in the public eyes and who would have thought Starmer popularity would collapse below Sunak in just a few weeks

    The interviews with Rayner and Philipson on todays morning media shows were more car crashes and now the Unions are to put forward a motion to reinstate WFA to the floor of conference on the same day Reeves gives her keynote speech

    How on earth has labour got into this mess and more importantly for them the danger is it will define them in the eyes of the public and reaffirmn the view they are all the same
    Oh Big G, don’t forget, Starmer is a TOP lawyer, he must be super intelligent and worthy so this must all be something he planned as part of being whiter than white and fixing the country with a growth agenda and grown up politics. Don’t despair.
    Given how many f##k ups the CPS seemed to have made when Starmer was in charge, makes you wonder just how good he is at running anything.

    I still can't believe the William Roche case. Mind blowing that got to court. So many red flags, wrong car, wrong house, provable on set when accusation occurred, one of the accusations, the police let the husband sit in and then talk over the woman making the claims.
    He presided over that whole celebrity sex trials witchhunt with nonsense like Dave Lee Travis groped me 20 years ago. However i reckon the true motive for this witchhunt for Starmer was sexual jealousy...this is a man who didnt seem to have much success with women as a young man and he wanted to pull other men down.
    Oh, I forgot to ask - how did your very hetro gym session go? Lots of thigh slapping?
    You ought to join me and the lads in a training session. We could teach you a few things.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    glw said:

    You can, if you want to be extremely charitable, argue that these donations have each been relatively trivial, if not everyday.

    It’s not as if any other party does anything different.

    But the fact they all come from Lord Alli, who was given a Downing Street pass by the woman whose son - now MP for Beckenham and Penge - received 10k for campaigning expenses…

    And then to have Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and Philippson each do a media round and utterly fail to come up with a coherent story beggars belief.

    Starmer made this thing blow up with his, I am not interested, go away, I will carry on taking freebies if I like as not against the rules, people will say its all fair dos, all in a lawyerly way that he thinks is really clever but hiding some of the detail, but he isn't in a court of law, its the court of public opinion.

    I think back to Cameron dealt with expenses, he came out and got the tone right. Now that was far far worse, but he managed to insulate himself somewhat by getting out the gate with the correct response.
    Cameron is a much better politician than Starmer, probably second only to Blair in living memory. Frankly I'm starting to think Sunak is a better politician than Starmer, and political nous was Sunak's biggest weakness.
    I’m not so sure. I think it more likely that Sunak is a man who has greater wealth than his tastes require. So he can instantly pay cash (ha) for anything he would want. and that’s before you get to his wife’s money.

    So it would never occur to him to ask for things, and it would seem stupid to offer money to a billionaire.
  • Ugh, this is why I hate the working class, so bloody entitled.

    Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner, who's been an MP since 2015, says that she had to accept donations of expensive clothing from a wealthy party donor because "I was from a very working class background" #bbclaurak

    https://x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1837778927160324400

    Across this scandal, there is always a tweet....

    https://x.com/ToryFibs/status/1837767319981867349
  • the bbc website currently has in its top five articles a piece on two woman who think Trump staged the two attempted murders of him. Really BBC ????? WTF are you playing at ? you admit half way down the article there is no evidence for this so WTF are you giving it so much prominence or any at all - Do you want to be a conspiracy theory host ? Very amateur especially with the pains it goes to to "verify" other staff

    You missed the byline. The story is by the BBC's disinformation correspondent The story is not about fake assassination attempts but about how the conspiracy theories spread and why people believe them.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvglm0rjy2go
    doesnt headline like that - makes it sound like the BBC wishes to spread these groundless rumours - Simpler and more honest to not write it in the first place
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369
    TomW said:

    TomW said:

    boulay said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Sue Gray apparently awarded him the pass to no 10 after he handed £10,000 to her son to stand for labour and he won

    This whole 'freebiegate' has made labour look as bad as the conserrvatives in the public eyes and who would have thought Starmer popularity would collapse below Sunak in just a few weeks

    The interviews with Rayner and Philipson on todays morning media shows were more car crashes and now the Unions are to put forward a motion to reinstate WFA to the floor of conference on the same day Reeves gives her keynote speech

    How on earth has labour got into this mess and more importantly for them the danger is it will define them in the eyes of the public and reaffirmn the view they are all the same
    Oh Big G, don’t forget, Starmer is a TOP lawyer, he must be super intelligent and worthy so this must all be something he planned as part of being whiter than white and fixing the country with a growth agenda and grown up politics. Don’t despair.
    Given how many f##k ups the CPS seemed to have made when Starmer was in charge, makes you wonder just how good he is at running anything.

    I still can't believe the William Roche case. Mind blowing that got to court. So many red flags, wrong car, wrong house, provable on set when accusation occurred, one of the accusations, the police let the husband sit in and then talk over the woman making the claims.
    He presided over that whole celebrity sex trials witchhunt with nonsense like Dave Lee Travis groped me 20 years ago. However i reckon the true motive for this witchhunt for Starmer was sexual jealousy...this is a man who didnt seem to have much success with women as a young man and he wanted to pull other men down.
    Oh, I forgot to ask - how did your very hetro gym session go? Lots of thigh slapping?
    You ought to join me and the lads in a training session. We could teach you a few things.
    Do we get to do top gun style totally non homo-erotic topless beach volleyball with the lads too?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    TomW said:

    TomW said:

    boulay said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Sue Gray apparently awarded him the pass to no 10 after he handed £10,000 to her son to stand for labour and he won

    This whole 'freebiegate' has made labour look as bad as the conserrvatives in the public eyes and who would have thought Starmer popularity would collapse below Sunak in just a few weeks

    The interviews with Rayner and Philipson on todays morning media shows were more car crashes and now the Unions are to put forward a motion to reinstate WFA to the floor of conference on the same day Reeves gives her keynote speech

    How on earth has labour got into this mess and more importantly for them the danger is it will define them in the eyes of the public and reaffirmn the view they are all the same
    Oh Big G, don’t forget, Starmer is a TOP lawyer, he must be super intelligent and worthy so this must all be something he planned as part of being whiter than white and fixing the country with a growth agenda and grown up politics. Don’t despair.
    Given how many f##k ups the CPS seemed to have made when Starmer was in charge, makes you wonder just how good he is at running anything.

    I still can't believe the William Roche case. Mind blowing that got to court. So many red flags, wrong car, wrong house, provable on set when accusation occurred, one of the accusations, the police let the husband sit in and then talk over the woman making the claims.
    He presided over that whole celebrity sex trials witchhunt with nonsense like Dave Lee Travis groped me 20 years ago. However i reckon the true motive for this witchhunt for Starmer was sexual jealousy...this is a man who didnt seem to have much success with women as a young man and he wanted to pull other men down.
    Oh, I forgot to ask - how did your very hetro gym session go? Lots of thigh slapping?
    You ought to join me and the lads in a training session. We could teach you a few things.
    ….


  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,743

    Foxy said:

    TOP STORY here in Seattle today . . .

    Seattle Times - Former WA Gov. Dan Evans dies at 98

    SSI - Will spare you the actual obituary, which is hagiography and NOT especially insightful.

    Wiki bio is better
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_J._Evans

    The term "Dan Evans Republican" means the same thing in WA State as "Nelson Rockefeller Republican" used to mean nationally = moderate GOPers. Basically extinct today, having morped into Democrats (or Dem-leaning Independents) over the last generation.

    Just to demonstrate appeal of Dan Evans for WA voters, in 1964 he was elected to his first of three terms as Gov (first ever gubernatorial hat trick in state history), he won by margin of over 150k votes over the Democratic incumbent . . . on same statewide ballot that saw LBJ beat AuH2O by nearly 310k.
    One heck of a cross-over vote!

    Gov. Evans then went on to do many positive things for education, transportation, the environment, etc. etc. in WA State. Including taking back the state Republican Party from the John Birchers (proto MAGA-maniacs) who managed to capture it during the Goldwater 1964 primary campaign.

    Dan Evans is today best known, especially to younger generation plus newcomers, as the namesake of the University of Washington's Dan Evans School of Public Policy.

    Will be interested to see if Jim Miller, a native Washingtonian, has any thoughts on the passing of Dan The Man - hope so!

    I would be interested on your thoughts and @Jim_Miller on my header in the previous thread.

    As bone fide Americans, do you think I was even close?
    Don't know about JM, but would concur with approx 95% of your analysis; one specific quibble is that "speaking in tongues" is NOT part of the theology of most Evangelicals in USA. Also note that Evangelicalism corrolates pretty strongly (though perhaps not as much as half-century ago) with lower socio-economic status compared with (traditionally anyway) "main line" Protestantism.

    Also note the political shift of most of US South from Democratic > Republican political identification and allegiance in the half-century since the Civil RIghts Revolution. PLUS shift of the key partisan fault line, from economic perspectives and policy (for example, business versus labor) to social perspectives and policies (for example, anti-abortion versus pro-choice).
    Yes the shift of the Bible belt Dem to Rep in the last 50 years is not something to be underestimated, indeed may have some way further to go.

    LBJ ensured his Great Society programmes worked for rural whites as much as inner city African Americans, but it didn't do the Dems much good.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274
    edited September 22

    the bbc website currently has in its top five articles a piece on two woman who think Trump staged the two attempted murders of him. Really BBC ????? WTF are you playing at ? you admit half way down the article there is no evidence for this so WTF are you giving it so much prominence or any at all - Do you want to be a conspiracy theory host ? Very amateur especially with the pains it goes to to "verify" other staff

    You missed the byline. The story is by the BBC's disinformation correspondent The story is not about fake assassination attempts but about how the conspiracy theories spread and why people believe them.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvglm0rjy2go
    doesnt headline like that - makes it sound like the BBC wishes to spread these groundless rumours - Simpler and more honest to not write it in the first place
    "Simpler and more honest to not" call out bullshit?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,366
    edited September 22

    glw said:

    You can, if you want to be extremely charitable, argue that these donations have each been relatively trivial, if not everyday.

    It’s not as if any other party does anything different.

    But the fact they all come from Lord Alli, who was given a Downing Street pass by the woman whose son - now MP for Beckenham and Penge - received 10k for campaigning expenses…

    And then to have Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and Philippson each do a media round and utterly fail to come up with a coherent story beggars belief.

    Starmer made this thing blow up with his, I am not interested, go away, I will carry on taking freebies if I like as not against the rules, people will say its all fair dos, all in a lawyerly way that he thinks is really clever but hiding some of the detail, but he isn't in a court of law, its the court of public opinion.

    I think back to Cameron dealt with expenses, he came out and got the tone right. Now that was far far worse, but he managed to insulate himself somewhat by getting out the gate with the correct response.
    Cameron is a much better politician than Starmer, probably second only to Blair in living memory. Frankly I'm starting to think Sunak is a better politician than Starmer, and political nous was Sunak's biggest weakness.
    I’m not so sure. I think it more likely that Sunak is a man who has greater wealth than his tastes require. So he can instantly pay cash (ha) for anything he would want. and that’s before you get to his wife’s money.

    So it would never occur to him to ask for things, and it would seem stupid to offer money to a billionaire.
    It was reported that his wife is big into fashion and was regularly offered freebie / discounted clobber when he was PM and always made it clear she couldn't accept such things. It might well be because of the stink over her non-dom status that they didn't want renewed attention.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,609

    the bbc website currently has in its top five articles a piece on two woman who think Trump staged the two attempted murders of him. Really BBC ????? WTF are you playing at ? you admit half way down the article there is no evidence for this so WTF are you giving it so much prominence or any at all - Do you want to be a conspiracy theory host ? Very amateur especially with the pains it goes to to "verify" other staff

    You missed the byline. The story is by the BBC's disinformation correspondent The story is not about fake assassination attempts but about how the conspiracy theories spread and why people believe them.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvglm0rjy2go
    doesnt headline like that - makes it sound like the BBC wishes to spread these groundless rumours - Simpler and more honest to not write it in the first place
    "Simpler and more honest to not" call out bullshit?
    They didn’t call it out so much as seek it out and then give it undue prominence.
  • Lord Alli needs a job; Minister for Cabby Entz?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    edited September 22

    glw said:

    You can, if you want to be extremely charitable, argue that these donations have each been relatively trivial, if not everyday.

    It’s not as if any other party does anything different.

    But the fact they all come from Lord Alli, who was given a Downing Street pass by the woman whose son - now MP for Beckenham and Penge - received 10k for campaigning expenses…

    And then to have Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and Philippson each do a media round and utterly fail to come up with a coherent story beggars belief.

    Starmer made this thing blow up with his, I am not interested, go away, I will carry on taking freebies if I like as not against the rules, people will say its all fair dos, all in a lawyerly way that he thinks is really clever but hiding some of the detail, but he isn't in a court of law, its the court of public opinion.

    I think back to Cameron dealt with expenses, he came out and got the tone right. Now that was far far worse, but he managed to insulate himself somewhat by getting out the gate with the correct response.
    Cameron is a much better politician than Starmer, probably second only to Blair in living memory. Frankly I'm starting to think Sunak is a better politician than Starmer, and political nous was Sunak's biggest weakness.
    I’m not so sure. I think it more likely that Sunak is a man who has greater wealth than his tastes require. So he can instantly pay cash (ha) for anything he would want. and that’s before you get to his wife’s money.

    So it would never occur to him to ask for things, and it would seem stupid to offer money to a billionaire.
    It was reported that his wife is big into fashion and was regularly offered freebie / discounted clobber when he was PM and always made it clear she couldn't accept such things. It might well be because of the stink over her non-dom status that they didn't want renewed attention.
    Quite possibly, from her background, she would have been asking what the price of such a freebie would be…
  • TomWTomW Posts: 70

    TomW said:

    boulay said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Sue Gray apparently awarded him the pass to no 10 after he handed £10,000 to her son to stand for labour and he won

    This whole 'freebiegate' has made labour look as bad as the conserrvatives in the public eyes and who would have thought Starmer popularity would collapse below Sunak in just a few weeks

    The interviews with Rayner and Philipson on todays morning media shows were more car crashes and now the Unions are to put forward a motion to reinstate WFA to the floor of conference on the same day Reeves gives her keynote speech

    How on earth has labour got into this mess and more importantly for them the danger is it will define them in the eyes of the public and reaffirmn the view they are all the same
    Oh Big G, don’t forget, Starmer is a TOP lawyer, he must be super intelligent and worthy so this must all be something he planned as part of being whiter than white and fixing the country with a growth agenda and grown up politics. Don’t despair.
    Given how many f##k ups the CPS seemed to have made when Starmer was in charge, makes you wonder just how good he is at running anything.

    I still can't believe the William Roche case. Mind blowing that got to court. So many red flags, wrong car, wrong house, provable on set when accusation occurred, one of the accusations, the police let the husband sit in and then talk over the woman making the claims.
    He presided over that whole celebrity sex trials witchhunt with nonsense like Dave Lee Travis groped me 20 years ago. However i reckon the true motive for this witchhunt for Starmer was sexual jealousy...this is a man who didnt seem to have much success with women as a young man and he wanted to pull other men down.
    Oh, I forgot to ask - how did your very hetro gym session go? Lots of thigh slapping?
    Aren't trials in UK presided over by judges NOT prosecutors?

    Quite unlike the situation in Uncle Tomsky's neck of the woods!
    The DPP sets priorities and decides which cases go to court.
  • TomWTomW Posts: 70
    boulay said:

    TomW said:

    TomW said:

    boulay said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Sue Gray apparently awarded him the pass to no 10 after he handed £10,000 to her son to stand for labour and he won

    This whole 'freebiegate' has made labour look as bad as the conserrvatives in the public eyes and who would have thought Starmer popularity would collapse below Sunak in just a few weeks

    The interviews with Rayner and Philipson on todays morning media shows were more car crashes and now the Unions are to put forward a motion to reinstate WFA to the floor of conference on the same day Reeves gives her keynote speech

    How on earth has labour got into this mess and more importantly for them the danger is it will define them in the eyes of the public and reaffirmn the view they are all the same
    Oh Big G, don’t forget, Starmer is a TOP lawyer, he must be super intelligent and worthy so this must all be something he planned as part of being whiter than white and fixing the country with a growth agenda and grown up politics. Don’t despair.
    Given how many f##k ups the CPS seemed to have made when Starmer was in charge, makes you wonder just how good he is at running anything.

    I still can't believe the William Roche case. Mind blowing that got to court. So many red flags, wrong car, wrong house, provable on set when accusation occurred, one of the accusations, the police let the husband sit in and then talk over the woman making the claims.
    He presided over that whole celebrity sex trials witchhunt with nonsense like Dave Lee Travis groped me 20 years ago. However i reckon the true motive for this witchhunt for Starmer was sexual jealousy...this is a man who didnt seem to have much success with women as a young man and he wanted to pull other men down.
    Oh, I forgot to ask - how did your very hetro gym session go? Lots of thigh slapping?
    You ought to join me and the lads in a training session. We could teach you a few things.
    Do we get to do top gun style totally non homo-erotic topless beach volleyball with the lads too?
    I bet you had a good time in your public school dormitory.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369

    glw said:

    You can, if you want to be extremely charitable, argue that these donations have each been relatively trivial, if not everyday.

    It’s not as if any other party does anything different.

    But the fact they all come from Lord Alli, who was given a Downing Street pass by the woman whose son - now MP for Beckenham and Penge - received 10k for campaigning expenses…

    And then to have Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and Philippson each do a media round and utterly fail to come up with a coherent story beggars belief.

    Starmer made this thing blow up with his, I am not interested, go away, I will carry on taking freebies if I like as not against the rules, people will say its all fair dos, all in a lawyerly way that he thinks is really clever but hiding some of the detail, but he isn't in a court of law, its the court of public opinion.

    I think back to Cameron dealt with expenses, he came out and got the tone right. Now that was far far worse, but he managed to insulate himself somewhat by getting out the gate with the correct response.
    Cameron is a much better politician than Starmer, probably second only to Blair in living memory. Frankly I'm starting to think Sunak is a better politician than Starmer, and political nous was Sunak's biggest weakness.
    I’m not so sure. I think it more likely that Sunak is a man who has greater wealth than his tastes require. So he can instantly pay cash (ha) for anything he would want. and that’s before you get to his wife’s money.

    So it would never occur to him to ask for things, and it would seem stupid to offer money to a billionaire.
    It was reported that his wife is big into fashion and was regularly offered freebie / discounted clobber when he was PM and always made it clear she couldn't accept such things. It might well be because of the stink over her non-dom status that they didn't want renewed attention.
    It’s funny how Sunak was criticised for his wealth (and his wife’s obviously) and yet having someone super wealthy makes them less corruptible as they don’t need anyone with an agenda, overt or other, buying them glasses, centrist dad clothes, and putting them up in flats in New York.
  • A new statue of Oscar Wild has been branded “absolutely hideous” by the writer’s grandson.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/22/oscar-wildes-family-criticise-hideous-new-statue-of-writer/

    Has the craft of sculpting been lost? Seem regular occurrence now they are bloody awful representations.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,879
    edited September 22

    MattW said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Add it all up - it’s really not very expensive to rent an entire government.

    If he is smart, he won’t have asked for anything.
    Lord Ali is imo perhaps looking potentially overexposed.

    Has he been in Private Eye very often?
    He will be. He’s going to get a whole issue to himself, I reckon.
    I'm sure that a PBer or two can tell us about the new Tristan Garel-Jarel Jones or Barbara Roche :smile: .

    I'm sure there will be a walk-on (followed by rapid walk-off) part for the Leeanderthal Man.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,366
    edited September 22
    boulay said:

    glw said:

    You can, if you want to be extremely charitable, argue that these donations have each been relatively trivial, if not everyday.

    It’s not as if any other party does anything different.

    But the fact they all come from Lord Alli, who was given a Downing Street pass by the woman whose son - now MP for Beckenham and Penge - received 10k for campaigning expenses…

    And then to have Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and Philippson each do a media round and utterly fail to come up with a coherent story beggars belief.

    Starmer made this thing blow up with his, I am not interested, go away, I will carry on taking freebies if I like as not against the rules, people will say its all fair dos, all in a lawyerly way that he thinks is really clever but hiding some of the detail, but he isn't in a court of law, its the court of public opinion.

    I think back to Cameron dealt with expenses, he came out and got the tone right. Now that was far far worse, but he managed to insulate himself somewhat by getting out the gate with the correct response.
    Cameron is a much better politician than Starmer, probably second only to Blair in living memory. Frankly I'm starting to think Sunak is a better politician than Starmer, and political nous was Sunak's biggest weakness.
    I’m not so sure. I think it more likely that Sunak is a man who has greater wealth than his tastes require. So he can instantly pay cash (ha) for anything he would want. and that’s before you get to his wife’s money.

    So it would never occur to him to ask for things, and it would seem stupid to offer money to a billionaire.
    It was reported that his wife is big into fashion and was regularly offered freebie / discounted clobber when he was PM and always made it clear she couldn't accept such things. It might well be because of the stink over her non-dom status that they didn't want renewed attention.
    It’s funny how Sunak was criticised for his wealth (and his wife’s obviously) and yet having someone super wealthy makes them less corruptible as they don’t need anyone with an agenda, overt or other, buying them glasses, centrist dad clothes, and putting them up in flats in New York.
    Boris' problem as well, not enough money to move in the world elite circles, so needs to keep tapping people up for freebies.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369
    edited September 22
    TomW said:

    boulay said:

    TomW said:

    TomW said:

    boulay said:

    The Lord Alli thing is starting to feel weird to me.

    Is there anyone in Cabinet who has not had "donations" of tickets, clothes, events, party costs etc etc.?

    Why is it always Alli?

    Are there no other multi-millionaires offering stuff?

    Is he collecting a kind of Top Trumps of Donations?

    Sue Gray apparently awarded him the pass to no 10 after he handed £10,000 to her son to stand for labour and he won

    This whole 'freebiegate' has made labour look as bad as the conserrvatives in the public eyes and who would have thought Starmer popularity would collapse below Sunak in just a few weeks

    The interviews with Rayner and Philipson on todays morning media shows were more car crashes and now the Unions are to put forward a motion to reinstate WFA to the floor of conference on the same day Reeves gives her keynote speech

    How on earth has labour got into this mess and more importantly for them the danger is it will define them in the eyes of the public and reaffirmn the view they are all the same
    Oh Big G, don’t forget, Starmer is a TOP lawyer, he must be super intelligent and worthy so this must all be something he planned as part of being whiter than white and fixing the country with a growth agenda and grown up politics. Don’t despair.
    Given how many f##k ups the CPS seemed to have made when Starmer was in charge, makes you wonder just how good he is at running anything.

    I still can't believe the William Roche case. Mind blowing that got to court. So many red flags, wrong car, wrong house, provable on set when accusation occurred, one of the accusations, the police let the husband sit in and then talk over the woman making the claims.
    He presided over that whole celebrity sex trials witchhunt with nonsense like Dave Lee Travis groped me 20 years ago. However i reckon the true motive for this witchhunt for Starmer was sexual jealousy...this is a man who didnt seem to have much success with women as a young man and he wanted to pull other men down.
    Oh, I forgot to ask - how did your very hetro gym session go? Lots of thigh slapping?
    You ought to join me and the lads in a training session. We could teach you a few things.
    Do we get to do top gun style totally non homo-erotic topless beach volleyball with the lads too?
    I bet you had a good time in your public school dormitory.
    God yes, Rum, sodomy and the lash, alas not the rum part, but the rest was totally amazing - almost like being in the Russian army with their propensity for mass buggery of recruits.

    What is all that about by the way, is it a suppressed national culture that can only escape when you get all the Russian men together away from the women?

    Edit to add, they were called Galleries not Dormitories. Got to get the details right.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,643
    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    boulay said:

    Philippson must be mentally retarded, which is a bit of a worry as she is Minister for Education.

    Who goes on national tv and describes what was obviously some kind of political gathering (involving front benchers and trade unionists) as her “birthday party”, even if turning 40 was the ostensible reason for the gathering?

    Can you imagine the thinking, “ I’ve been given £14k for my 40th birthday party, I just really want it to be spent with politicians and trade unionists because it will be a wild hoot.” She deserves the boot for shit partying decisions above all else.
    Trevor Phillips on Sky this morning asked Philipson when they are all going to repay this largesse and she just looked as if she wanted to be anywhere (maybe at a party) then in the studio
    I'm much less bothered about whatever "largesse" they've received than how they are going to help those pensions on the wrong side of the cliff edge and losing the winter fuel allowance.

    Are we seriously expecting each MP who attended Taylor Swift on a ticket provided to pay the full cost of the ticket - let's ask Prince William to stump up for his ticket while we're about it?

    Let's not forget the grift of the previous administration - should we ask someone about the money shelled out on PPE contracts?
    Christ the Prince William comparison is dumb. Politicians who can make and change laws are completely different to figureheads who are politically neutral.

    Nobody forgets the sins of the previous administrations, the Ecclestone affair and onwards - it doesn’t make the cheap shitshow that is current somehow ok. In fact the tragic cheapness of it is worse - bought for clothes, football matches and pop concerts. It wouldn’t be an issue if they hadn’t been such pious, holier than though pricks about Boris, Covid parties, Rishi in helicopters, etc.
    As I've said on here a few times, the gifts/freebies themselves are not the issue and apart from those who just enjoy having a go at Labour, there are two serious points.

    First, what Starmer and Reeves said before the election about the way they would comport themselves in Government has been seriously compromised. I'm much less bothered about trips to Doncaster, Taylor Swift concert tickets or even clothes. Occasionally, people do something without expecting anything in return - we all do that. The problem only starts when there is even a suspicion any largesse provided is perceived as opening a door to undue influence. I don't think it does in this instance but if you are going to promise to be "clean" in office, this has to be the case from day one.

    Second, the juxtaposition of Cabinet Ministers enjoying themselves at concerts and getting nice clothes at a time when many pensioners are going to lose £250 of winter fuel allowance looks terrible. Now, clearly, some of the 12.5 million pensioners don't need the money and that's been well publicised but many do and apart from those who have gone to apply for Pension Credit to which they were entitled (and that's perhaps the only positive), the cliff edge nature of the means testing means some pensioners will, for having two or three quid too much, lose the whole £250. That's ridiculous and needs to be sorted via some form of tapering to ensure it's not such a severe loss for those whose income puts them close to the limit.

    I agree this has been a disappointing start at best for the new Government but incoming Governments often find it's much easier in the comfy chairs of Opposition than in Government itself especially after a long period of Opposition when so few have had Ministerial experience. That doesn't excuse the "optics" of all of this and it sets a tone which isn't going to be easy to change in the short term.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426

    A new statue of Oscar Wild has been branded “absolutely hideous” by the writer’s grandson.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/22/oscar-wildes-family-criticise-hideous-new-statue-of-writer/

    Has the craft of sculpting been lost? Seem regular occurrence now they are bloody awful representations.

    Representational art was deeply unfashionable for a long while.

    When I was at UCL, a Spanish artist nearly got kicked out of the Slade art school because of her love for doing photorealistic painting.
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