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Will Starmer last the parliament? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,047
edited September 5 in General
Will Starmer last the parliament? – politicalbetting.com

William Hill have a market up on whether Starmer will be PM at the next election. You’re potentially tying your money up for nearly five years if you think he will for a tiday 25% return. If you think he won’t, then better proxy bets could be available on say the next leader markets.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,380
    edited September 5
    I hope, but doubt, that we will return to the heady days of the LOTO's price for next PM going in and out like the tides - and almost as predictably - as Starmer's did every time Johnson had a new scandal that some believed would end his premiership (and therefore make Starmer not next PM). Best money I've ever made from trading on politics. Maybe the biggest return I've ever made on a single market (I'd have to add up all the trades to check).

    Unfortunately, I think I'll be disappointed :disappointed:
  • Fun fact - Rwanda and Burundi were German colonies until 1916.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,586
    On Topic not sure. If they go down the failed austerity route I don't think he will survive

    There are . of Red Tories who would knife him in an instant.

    Streeting would be most likely replacement although he will struggle to retain his seat in GE 2028
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,196

    Five percent a year, ignoring compound interest.

    That's saying it's expected, isn't it? National Savings are offering 4.1 percent over five years. And if that fails, the government really is in trouble.

    No, it’s saying the bookmaker thinks people will bet on him going. Which they will. But that doesn’t mean they’ll be right.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    The 7th Elephant.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,766
    edited September 5
    If Labour didn't ditch a dud like Brown I doubt they'll ditch Starmer. Both are uncharismatic and damaging for the country but neither is obviously worse than the other.

    Of course Starmer could get sick or worse or just give up, but I don't see any evidence of that at this stage.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,574
    It really is hard to imaging him being ousted. For starters, there isn't any formal mechanism for the party to do so.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500

    Fun fact - Rwanda and Burundi were German colonies until 1916.

    I'm not sure the word 'fun' ought to be used in this context. For their reign to be relieved by the Belgians suggests it wasn't so.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    RobD said:

    It really is hard to imaging him being ousted. For starters, there isn't any formal mechanism for the party to do so.

    Unless there is a scandal

    It’s not impossible. He has a touch of greed - the free glasses, really?? - and he’s clearly not asexual

    And he’s the priggish type so might be obliged to resign on the grounds of him being so puritan

    Still rather unlikely so the header is a value but boring bet for five long years
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,252

    On Topic not sure. If they go down the failed austerity route I don't think he will survive

    There are . of Red Tories who would knife him in an instant.

    Streeting would be most likely replacement although he will struggle to retain his seat in GE 2028

    Says the man who confidently and consistently predicted that Ed Miliband would be PM and SKS never would be.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,699
    Omnium said:

    Fun fact - Rwanda and Burundi were German colonies until 1916.

    I'm not sure the word 'fun' ought to be used in this context. For their reign to be relieved by the Belgians suggests it wasn't so.
    Dave Gorman on fun facts (after an argument at a pub quiz): https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxuQ0-y25qaWozzZ3ppifq2lj2jM9wfu0L?si=X_z8qXbpOONG-g0x
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159

    Five percent a year, ignoring compound interest.

    That's saying it's expected, isn't it? National Savings are offering 4.1 percent over five years. And if that fails, the government really is in trouble.

    Yes, if that fails Starmer will be long gone.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    edited September 5
    FPT
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The Germans are actually proposing to use the Rwanda facilities intended for Britain

    I have my doubts they will follow through but there is grave danger for Starmer here. If the Germans *do* Rwanda and it works then Starmer is the idiot who collapsed a policy which was about to solve the boats crisis

    Their proposal looks like offshore processing, similar to what a number of other EU countries have looked at with other countries. If that's the case, then there may well be the same question marks over its cost-effectiveness and the conditions under which it is run (i.e. is Rwanda a safe location), but it is within existing norms.

    The UK plan was a one-way ticket meaning you would end up in Rwanda with no right to settle in the UK even if your asylum claim was upheld. That, in the absence of any meaningful legal routes to asylum here, was completely unfair and a derogation of our international responsibilities.
    lol. Voters won’t notice or care about that. They will just see that “Rwanda worked for Germany and
    Starmer dumped it for Britain. And still the boats come”. Disastrous for Labour

    Eventually some country in Europe will seriously attempt something like this. And if it works all the other countries will hastily follow
    You should publish your rubbish predictions as some sort of anthology. Possible title: “surprises on the upside”?
    I’ve just realised, as you travel around America, that you’re basically Humbert Humbert - but with a dog
    Are you sure he took the dog?

    This is something about which the Yanks seem to have a bee in their bonnet, and it is not easy.

    They always have strange obsessions - preventing incoming haggises is another one.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,206
    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796
    I have a feeling he's going to turn out to be one of the best Prime Minister's we've had. So far he hasn't put a foot wrong and it 's starting to feel like the country's getting it's confidence back. Possibly he'll be the next Atlee.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    Roger said:

    I have a feeling he's going to turn out to be one of the best Prime Minister's we've had. So far he hasn't put a foot wrong and it 's starting to feel like the country's getting it's confidence back. Possibly he'll be the next Atlee.

    LOL!!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139

    Roger said:

    I have a feeling he's going to turn out to be one of the best Prime Minister's we've had. So far he hasn't put a foot wrong and it 's starting to feel like the country's getting it's confidence back. Possibly he'll be the next Atlee.

    LOL!!
    This post is the best news I've had all year.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,206
    Roger said:

    I have a feeling he's going to turn out to be one of the best Prime Minister's we've had. So far he hasn't put a foot wrong and it 's starting to feel like the country's getting it's confidence back. Possibly he'll be the next Atlee.

    Isnt Atlee dead ? Sometimes Starmer is so funereal he might as well be dead too.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458

    On Topic not sure. If they go down the failed austerity route I don't think he will survive

    There are . of Red Tories who would knife him in an instant.

    Streeting would be most likely replacement although he will struggle to retain his seat in GE 2028

    Says the man who confidently and consistently predicted that Ed Miliband would be PM and SKS never would be.
    Yes, Owls has the political forecasting skills of an amoeba. Sadly, every other post for the last parliament was sharing his profound ignorance with the 'SKS Fans', a daily waste of pixels that we will never recover. Sad.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    edited September 5
    Events dear boy events has led to no PM lasting more than 3 years in office since Cameron in 2016. Maybe that'll continue with Starmer.
  • SKSICIPM :lol:
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,252

    On Topic not sure. If they go down the failed austerity route I don't think he will survive

    There are . of Red Tories who would knife him in an instant.

    Streeting would be most likely replacement although he will struggle to retain his seat in GE 2028

    Says the man who confidently and consistently predicted that Ed Miliband would be PM and SKS never would be.
    Yes, Owls has the political forecasting skills of an amoeba. Sadly, every other post for the last parliament was sharing his profound ignorance with the 'SKS Fans', a daily waste of pixels that we will never recover. Sad.
    And we never did get to the bottom of exactly who those ‘SKS fans’ were.
  • On Topic not sure. If they go down the failed austerity route I don't think he will survive

    There are . of Red Tories who would knife him in an instant.

    Streeting would be most likely replacement although he will struggle to retain his seat in GE 2028

    Austerity led to Dave (pbuh) increasing his number of MPs and vote share.

    The country loves austerity.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458
    edited September 5

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote, is for the birds.
  • Leon said:

    RobD said:

    It really is hard to imaging him being ousted. For starters, there isn't any formal mechanism for the party to do so.

    Unless there is a scandal

    It’s not impossible. He has a touch of greed - the free glasses, really?? - and he’s clearly not asexual

    And he’s the priggish type so might be obliged to resign on the grounds of him being so puritan

    Still rather unlikely so the header is a value but boring bet for five long years
    Man resigns because he's a puritan who likes sex and wears glasses.
    Don't see it myself.
    As PB’s leading Puritan (I mean look at my avatar) I can say that Starmer is no Puritan.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Events dear boy events has led to no PM lasting more than 3 years in office since Cameron in 2016. Maybe that'll continue with Starmer.

    It's possible, sure.

    The other possibility is that the Conservatives have been self-indulgently skittish for pretty much all of that time.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,206

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    Oh where to start.

    She has screwed up pay in the public sector which will come back to bite her in the arse. Shes
    killing growth , she has no ideas on productivity. Ed Miliband, no chance on housing.

    And thats before we mention pensioners who in the usual SKS flip flop may or may not be losing winter fuel allowance.

    She's so shit that if she went swimming in the Thames the directors of TW would get two years in prison.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796

    Roger said:

    I have a feeling he's going to turn out to be one of the best Prime Minister's we've had. So far he hasn't put a foot wrong and it 's starting to feel like the country's getting it's confidence back. Possibly he'll be the next Atlee.

    LOL!!
    If you want a buffoon who wears high viz jackets and poses for photo ops all day then he's not for you. But if like most people you just want someone who'll do the right thing for the right reasons and will make sure we get on with our neighbours and don't gratuitously persecute immigrants and will get on with the business of running the government fairly and competently then I don't think we could do much better.
  • More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    By allowing a free vote, it surely means the Government is backing down and using this to save face. Suspect the damage has been done though.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    It worked. The strikes are off. The cowardly Tories were fucking hopeless at industrial relations, such that nobody could trust the railway to – you know – actually run a train on time if at all. They were a total and utter failure. In just a few weeks, Labour have achieved more on the railways than the useless Tories did in 14 years.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458

    Andy_JS said:

    Events dear boy events has led to no PM lasting more than 3 years in office since Cameron in 2016. Maybe that'll continue with Starmer.

    It's possible, sure.

    The other possibility is that the Conservatives have been self-indulgently skittish for pretty much all of that time.

    Indeed. I mean, just look what happened to THE TRUSS.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458

    On Topic not sure. If they go down the failed austerity route I don't think he will survive

    There are . of Red Tories who would knife him in an instant.

    Streeting would be most likely replacement although he will struggle to retain his seat in GE 2028

    Says the man who confidently and consistently predicted that Ed Miliband would be PM and SKS never would be.
    Yes, Owls has the political forecasting skills of an amoeba. Sadly, every other post for the last parliament was sharing his profound ignorance with the 'SKS Fans', a daily waste of pixels that we will never recover. Sad.
    And we never did get to the bottom of exactly who those ‘SKS fans’ were.
    I think anyone who wasn't a barmy europhobic Corbynite Trot.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,462
    edited September 5

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    It worked. The strikes are off. The cowardly Tories were fucking hopeless at industrial relations, such that nobody could trust the railway to – you know – actually run a train on time if at all. They were a total and utter failure. In just a few weeks, Labour have achieved more on the railways than the useless Tories did in 14 years.
    Or, alternatively, the unions are so undemocratic they want their bought politicians in power, so they will do anything to undermine a Conservative government.

    And many unions do tend to have an undemocratic trait running through them.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    It worked. The strikes are off. The cowardly Tories were fucking hopeless at industrial relations, such that nobody could trust the railway to – you know – actually run a train on time if at all. They were a total and utter failure. In just a few weeks, Labour have achieved more on the railways than the useless Tories did in 14 years.
    Or, alternatively, the unions are so undemocratic they want their bought politicians in power, so they will do anything to undermine a Conservative government.

    And many unions do tend to have an undemocratic trait running through them.
    Whatever gets you through the night. The trains are running again. Just rejoice at that news.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,699

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    By allowing a free vote, it surely means the Government is backing down and using this to save face. Suspect the damage has been done though.
    Wait, what? I missed that... A keynote fiscal policy is going to be a free vote?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,699

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    It worked. The strikes are off.
    For now. Until they come back emboldened in a few months demanding more.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    Oh where to start.

    She has screwed up pay in the public sector which will come back to bite her in the arse. Shes
    killing growth , she has no ideas on productivity. Ed Miliband, no chance on housing.

    And thats before we mention pensioners who in the usual SKS flip flop may or may not be losing winter fuel allowance.

    She's so shit that if she went swimming in the Thames the directors of TW would get two years in prison.
    I'll ask the mods to translate all that for me. Google Translate didn't work.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,962
    Andy_JS said:

    Events dear boy events has led to no PM lasting more than 3 years in office since Cameron in 2016. Maybe that'll continue with Starmer.

    Starmer is also the first normally functional prime minister since Cameron, which should be worth something.

    I'm not talking about policies. Cameron made some big mistakes.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458
    Driver said:

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    It worked. The strikes are off.
    For now. Until they come back emboldened in a few months demanding more.

    Ah so that was the thinking that led the last government to avoid talking to them, letting the service fall into rack and ruin. Thanks for confirming.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,462

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    It worked. The strikes are off. The cowardly Tories were fucking hopeless at industrial relations, such that nobody could trust the railway to – you know – actually run a train on time if at all. They were a total and utter failure. In just a few weeks, Labour have achieved more on the railways than the useless Tories did in 14 years.
    Or, alternatively, the unions are so undemocratic they want their bought politicians in power, so they will do anything to undermine a Conservative government.

    And many unions do tend to have an undemocratic trait running through them.
    Whatever gets you through the night. The trains are running again. Just rejoice at that news.
    How long before the next strike on the railways, then? Remember ASLEF were going to strike over the management of - nationalised - LNER. I expect more of the same shite soon.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    It worked. The strikes are off. The cowardly Tories were fucking hopeless at industrial relations, such that nobody could trust the railway to – you know – actually run a train on time if at all. They were a total and utter failure. In just a few weeks, Labour have achieved more on the railways than the useless Tories did in 14 years.
    Or, alternatively, the unions are so undemocratic they want their bought politicians in power, so they will do anything to undermine a Conservative government.

    And many unions do tend to have an undemocratic trait running through them.
    Whatever gets you through the night. The trains are running again. Just rejoice at that news.
    How long before the next strike on the railways, then? Remember ASLEF were going to strike over the management of - nationalised - LNER. I expect more of the same shite soon.
    The strikes are off. Those are the facts. Do you remember the shambles under the last government? Clearly you do not.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,455
    edited September 5
    MattW said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The Germans are actually proposing to use the Rwanda facilities intended for Britain

    I have my doubts they will follow through but there is grave danger for Starmer here. If the Germans *do* Rwanda and it works then Starmer is the idiot who collapsed a policy which was about to solve the boats crisis

    Their proposal looks like offshore processing, similar to what a number of other EU countries have looked at with other countries. If that's the case, then there may well be the same question marks over its cost-effectiveness and the conditions under which it is run (i.e. is Rwanda a safe location), but it is within existing norms.

    The UK plan was a one-way ticket meaning you would end up in Rwanda with no right to settle in the UK even if your asylum claim was upheld. That, in the absence of any meaningful legal routes to asylum here, was completely unfair and a derogation of our international responsibilities.
    lol. Voters won’t notice or care about that. They will just see that “Rwanda worked for Germany and
    Starmer dumped it for Britain. And still the boats come”. Disastrous for Labour

    Eventually some country in Europe will seriously attempt something like this. And if it works all the other countries will hastily follow
    You should publish your rubbish predictions as some sort of anthology. Possible title: “surprises on the upside”?
    I’ve just realised, as you travel around America, that you’re basically Humbert Humbert - but with a dog
    Are you sure he took the dog?

    This is something about which the Yanks seem to have a bee in their bonnet, and it is not easy.

    They always have strange obsessions - preventing incoming haggises is another one.
    That's nothing - you should try the Australians. Food in the luggage is a big no-no. And their customs officer made me unpack my walking boots when he realised I came from a small town in Scotland, ie sheep country. But I'd sussed them and made sure the boots were shining clean.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    Driver said:

    A rare QTWTAIY.

    (and a rare first...)

    Indeed. Short of illness or being caught with a bag of Russian money, there’s no way he’s going anywhere until an election. We saw under Corbyn that it’s impossible for Labour to force a change of leader, and that was in opposition rather than in government. Oh, and there’s very few of the current senior figures who measure up to Starmer.
  • Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    A rare QTWTAIY.

    (and a rare first...)

    Indeed. Short of illness or being caught with a bag of Russian money, there’s no way he’s going anywhere until an election. We saw under Corbyn that it’s impossible for Labour to force a change of leader, and that was in opposition rather than in government. Oh, and there’s very few of the current senior figures who measure up to Starmer.
    Starmer- he'll have to do.

    And for better or worse, he has nearly five years before facing public judgement. Anyone hopecasting for excitement or vindication has got a long wait coming.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    The 17:20 at Haydock Park was just won by a horse called Free Speech - by the shortest of short heads in the photo.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,462

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    It worked. The strikes are off. The cowardly Tories were fucking hopeless at industrial relations, such that nobody could trust the railway to – you know – actually run a train on time if at all. They were a total and utter failure. In just a few weeks, Labour have achieved more on the railways than the useless Tories did in 14 years.
    Or, alternatively, the unions are so undemocratic they want their bought politicians in power, so they will do anything to undermine a Conservative government.

    And many unions do tend to have an undemocratic trait running through them.
    Whatever gets you through the night. The trains are running again. Just rejoice at that news.
    How long before the next strike on the railways, then? Remember ASLEF were going to strike over the management of - nationalised - LNER. I expect more of the same shite soon.
    The strikes are off. Those are the facts. Do you remember the shambles under the last government? Clearly you do not.
    I remember the strikes by the unions, yes. If you think that there will be no more rail strikes under this government, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

    You think the unions are friends of Labour. They're not. They're not friends of the public, either.
  • This might cause further problems and lead to the series going unbroadcast in the UK.

    England head coach Brendon McCullum has admitted he and his team are in the dark as speculation mounts over whether their three Tests in Pakistan in October could be moved to another country.

    England are due to play Tests in Multan, Karachi and Rawalpindi from October 7 but, according to reports in Pakistan, some or all of the tour could be moved to the United Arab Emirates or Sri Lanka because some venues are being refurbished.

    Rawalpindi was recently the venue for both Tests in Pakistan’s series against Bangladesh – which they lost 2-0 – but upgrades are taking place there, and in Karachi and Lahore, with an eye on the 2025 Champions Trophy, which is due to take place in the country.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2024/09/05/england-pakistan-tour-venue-change-brendon-mccullum/
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,676
    I think it ought to be acknowledged that Reeves has been fairly rubbish so far. She's tried to employ a Labour Donor in the Treasury, who has now had to resign - that's hardly sure-footed. She's cancelled the oldies' fuel allowance, perhaps fairly but saving a piffling amount of money. She's tried to accuse the Tories of a £22bn black hole, and the polling indicates she's got 50-50 belief on that - is that good for a new COTE after 40 years of sleazy Tory misrule? At the same time, she has undermined that story by giving a socking pay deal to the fatcat train drivers, with no productivity improvements - something Blair never did. It ain't great is it?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    edited September 5

    This might cause further problems and lead to the series going unbroadcast in the UK.

    England head coach Brendon McCullum has admitted he and his team are in the dark as speculation mounts over whether their three Tests in Pakistan in October could be moved to another country.

    England are due to play Tests in Multan, Karachi and Rawalpindi from October 7 but, according to reports in Pakistan, some or all of the tour could be moved to the United Arab Emirates or Sri Lanka because some venues are being refurbished.

    Rawalpindi was recently the venue for both Tests in Pakistan’s series against Bangladesh – which they lost 2-0 – but upgrades are taking place there, and in Karachi and Lahore, with an eye on the 2025 Champions Trophy, which is due to take place in the country.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2024/09/05/england-pakistan-tour-venue-change-brendon-mccullum/

    Yes please!!! 🏏 🇦🇪 🇵🇰
  • More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    Indeed it is really hard to see why the government prefers to have doctors, nurses and teachers working rather than striking when we could be paying that same money to retired millionaires instead as a little thank you bonus for winning the second world war.
    I agree, I am in favour of taking away the WFA from the most selfish generation in history, but the optics look bad.

    What they should have done is something like getting rid of the WFA but increasing the pension by that amount but changing the tax allowances for pensioners so the really poor ones would have got it tax free.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    Labour as a whole may not be very ruthless but some within the Cabinet are very ambitious eg Streeting and possibly Rayner. If we get near polling day for the next GE and Starmer looks likely to lose Labour's majority I could see one or the other challenging him for the leadership
  • More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    It worked. The strikes are off. The cowardly Tories were fucking hopeless at industrial relations, such that nobody could trust the railway to – you know – actually run a train on time if at all. They were a total and utter failure. In just a few weeks, Labour have achieved more on the railways than the useless Tories did in 14 years.
    Hahahahaha. I love the fact you believe that. Now it may turn out to be true in acouple of years time - though I seriously doubt it - but the idea that you can claim at this moment that Labour have achieved anything with regard to improving railway servcies is, not to put too fine a point on it, utter bollocks.

    Labour have bunged a load of taxpayer's money at all the public services, whether they deerve it or not (as in the case of the train drivers) in the hope it will keep them quiet for a while. It won't work. It never does.
  • More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    It worked. The strikes are off. The cowardly Tories were fucking hopeless at industrial relations, such that nobody could trust the railway to – you know – actually run a train on time if at all. They were a total and utter failure. In just a few weeks, Labour have achieved more on the railways than the useless Tories did in 14 years.
    Or, alternatively, the unions are so undemocratic they want their bought politicians in power, so they will do anything to undermine a Conservative government.

    And many unions do tend to have an undemocratic trait running through them.
    Whatever gets you through the night. The trains are running again. Just rejoice at that news.
    How long before the next strike on the railways, then? Remember ASLEF were going to strike over the management of - nationalised - LNER. I expect more of the same shite soon.
    The strikes are off. Those are the facts. Do you remember the shambles under the last government? Clearly you do not.
    I remember the strikes by the unions, yes. If you think that there will be no more rail strikes under this government, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

    You think the unions are friends of Labour. They're not. They're not friends of the public, either.
    They're not, but most unions are fairly clear-eyed about how much power they have and how to use it to negotiate the best available deal for the members. But also where to stop.

    Where the previous government went wrong was assuming that, by being steely and determined, they could force their will on the negotiations. Given that the strikes were hurting the government as well as the strikers, and that the episodic strikes were sustainable for months, that wasn't going to work.

    Sunak did not (as the dread phrase goes) hold all the cards, which is why budgeting on the basis that they did was so silly.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,135

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    Indeed it is really hard to see why the government prefers to have doctors, nurses and teachers working rather than striking when we could be paying that same money to retired millionaires instead as a little thank you bonus for winning the second world war.
    I agree, I am in favour of taking away the WFA from the most selfish generation in history, but the optics look bad.

    What they should have done is something like getting rid of the WFA but increasing the pension by that amount but changing the tax allowances for pensioners so the really poor ones would have got it tax free.
    The budget is yet to come, lets see what they do perhaps? And pensions are set by the triple lock, tinker with that at your peril.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379

    Roger said:

    I have a feeling he's going to turn out to be one of the best Prime Minister's we've had. So far he hasn't put a foot wrong and it 's starting to feel like the country's getting it's confidence back. Possibly he'll be the next Atlee.

    Isnt Atlee dead? Sometimes Starmer is so funereal he might as well be dead too.
    You aren't sure?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    edited September 5

    Fun fact - Rwanda and Burundi were German colonies until 1916.

    I'm not sure it was much fun for Rwanda or Burundi.

    Edit: beaten by @Omnium
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited September 5
    Dr David Jeffery, Politics Lecturer at Liverpool Uni, has analysed the declarations of Tory MPs as to who they backed in the leadership ballot and compared them to who they backed in 2022 if in the last Parliament.

    50% of Jenrick's support comes from Truss backers, as does 46% of Badenoch's support and as did 83% of Patel's support.

    62% of Stride's support comes from Sunak backers, as does 33% of Badenoch's support

    Tugendhat and Cleverly draw equally from Truss and Sunak backers


    https://conservativehome.com/2024/09/05/david-jeffery-the-big-difference-between-badenoch-and-jenricks-campaigns-ex-johnson-supporters/
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,135
    Carnyx said:

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    Indeed it is really hard to see why the government prefers to have doctors, nurses and teachers working rather than striking when we could be paying that same money to retired millionaires instead as a little thank you bonus for winning the second world war.
    Err ... a little thank you bonus for *having parents* who won the war, I think you'll find in the vast majority of cases ...
    I just can't believe the gratuitous abuse that our glorious pensioners have to suffer. What do you think motivated those parents to fight? To protect the lives of their children, the current generation of pensioners of course, including any future winter fuel bonuses that they fully deserve.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    Die Welt's main article atm.

    "A large majority of citizens want a fundamentally different migration policy. Very few consider the government to be competent in combating crime and asylum policy - the AfD does better here than all three traffic light parties combined."

    https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article253376310/Migration-das-wichtigste-Problem-Deutschlands-Jetzt-schiesst-der-Wert-nach-oben.html
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    *sad dark bleakly amused laughter*


    “Chinese lab linked to Covid leak may have also released ANOTHER deadly virus, new research claims

    The Chinese lab that the FBI believes likely leaked Covid-19 may have also released a 'highly evolved' strain of polio in 2014”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-13812803/Chinese-lab-Covid-leak-deadly-virus-wiv14-saukett.html
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    edited September 5
    “To release one deadly evil virus may be regarded as misfortune, but…”
  • More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    Indeed it is really hard to see why the government prefers to have doctors, nurses and teachers working rather than striking when we could be paying that same money to retired millionaires instead as a little thank you bonus for winning the second world war.
    I agree, I am in favour of taking away the WFA from the most selfish generation in history, but the optics look bad.

    What they should have done is something like getting rid of the WFA but increasing the pension by that amount but changing the tax allowances for pensioners so the really poor ones would have got it tax free.
    Sensible solution
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,135

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    It worked. The strikes are off. The cowardly Tories were fucking hopeless at industrial relations, such that nobody could trust the railway to – you know – actually run a train on time if at all. They were a total and utter failure. In just a few weeks, Labour have achieved more on the railways than the useless Tories did in 14 years.
    Hahahahaha. I love the fact you believe that. Now it may turn out to be true in acouple of years time - though I seriously doubt it - but the idea that you can claim at this moment that Labour have achieved anything with regard to improving railway servcies is, not to put too fine a point on it, utter bollocks.

    Labour have bunged a load of taxpayer's money at all the public services, whether they deerve it or not (as in the case of the train drivers) in the hope it will keep them quiet for a while. It won't work. It never does.
    The right of centre in the UK broadly believe in the market economy, and then we get to public sector pay where deserving it has been elevated above pragmatic economics.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    edited September 5

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    Indeed it is really hard to see why the government prefers to have doctors, nurses and teachers working rather than striking when we could be paying that same money to retired millionaires instead as a little thank you bonus for winning the second world war.
    I agree, I am in favour of taking away the WFA from the most selfish generation in history, but the optics look bad.

    What they should have done is something like getting rid of the WFA but increasing the pension by that amount but changing the tax allowances for pensioners so the really poor ones would have got it tax free.
    Replacing WFA with an equivalent State Pension increase would have saved less than 20% of the amount Reeves' changes will save, unless you also brought in a special, lower, ICT personal allowance for pensioners.

    Which itself seems like an unnecessary complication with even worse optics than the WFA change.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,544
    edited September 5

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    Indeed it is really hard to see why the government prefers to have doctors, nurses and teachers working rather than striking when we could be paying that same money to retired millionaires instead as a little thank you bonus for winning the second world war.
    I agree, I am in favour of taking away the WFA from the most selfish generation in history, but the optics look bad.

    What they should have done is something like getting rid of the WFA but increasing the pension by that amount but changing the tax allowances for pensioners so the really poor ones would have got it tax free.
    In practice, that's what happened. The inflation spike made the triple lock act strangely- pensions got the inflation boost two years ago and the subsequent pay boost last year. Double bubble as they say.

    That windfall was was more than the WFA. Granny still has more money after inflation to pay her fuel bills than three years ago. But yes, the politics and optics were awful.

    But with nearly five years until the election, that's not something to get excited about.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    Kotor Bay

    Be here now


  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    edited September 5
    Andy_JS said:

    Die Welt's main article atm.

    "A large majority of citizens want a fundamentally different migration policy. Very few consider the government to be competent in combating crime and asylum policy - the AfD does better here than all three traffic light parties combined."

    https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article253376310/Migration-das-wichtigste-Problem-Deutschlands-Jetzt-schiesst-der-Wert-nach-oben.html

    Europe is about to shift brutally to the right on migration and asylum. Everyone will follow where Denmark led. I’ve been saying it on here for a while

    Because the alternative is actual Nazis in power. Eventually the voters will rebel and they don’t care if you call them racist

    Feeble Sir Keir means Britain will be last to the party
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    Carnyx said:

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    Indeed it is really hard to see why the government prefers to have doctors, nurses and teachers working rather than striking when we could be paying that same money to retired millionaires instead as a little thank you bonus for winning the second world war.
    Err ... a little thank you bonus for *having parents* who won the war, I think you'll find in the vast majority of cases ...
    I just can't believe the gratuitous abuse that our glorious pensioners have to suffer. What do you think motivated those parents to fight? To protect the lives of their children, the current generation of pensioners of course, including any future winter fuel bonuses that they fully deserve.
    Dulce et decorum est pro hiemis subsidio mori.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Die Welt's main article atm.

    "A large majority of citizens want a fundamentally different migration policy. Very few consider the government to be competent in combating crime and asylum policy - the AfD does better here than all three traffic light parties combined."

    https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article253376310/Migration-das-wichtigste-Problem-Deutschlands-Jetzt-schiesst-der-Wert-nach-oben.html

    Europe is about to shift brutally to the right on migration and asylum. Everyone will follow where Denmark led. I’ve been saying it on here for a while

    Because the alternative is actual Nazis in power. Eventually the voters will rebel and they don’t care if you call them racist

    Feeble Sir Keir means Britain will be last to the party
    Over to Roger to hear his view on this.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,135
    mercator said:

    Carnyx said:

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    Indeed it is really hard to see why the government prefers to have doctors, nurses and teachers working rather than striking when we could be paying that same money to retired millionaires instead as a little thank you bonus for winning the second world war.
    Err ... a little thank you bonus for *having parents* who won the war, I think you'll find in the vast majority of cases ...
    I just can't believe the gratuitous abuse that our glorious pensioners have to suffer. What do you think motivated those parents to fight? To protect the lives of their children, the current generation of pensioners of course, including any future winter fuel bonuses that they fully deserve.
    Dulce et decorum est pro hiemis subsidio mori.
    Not according to Trumpy.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,969
    Yes. Starmer will endure... And my god will we endure Starmer... 😂
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,258
    Sandpit said:

    The 17:20 at Haydock Park was just won by a horse called Free Speech - by the shortest of short heads in the photo.

    Ridden by Lester Bigot?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,574
    .
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Die Welt's main article atm.

    "A large majority of citizens want a fundamentally different migration policy. Very few consider the government to be competent in combating crime and asylum policy - the AfD does better here than all three traffic light parties combined."

    https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article253376310/Migration-das-wichtigste-Problem-Deutschlands-Jetzt-schiesst-der-Wert-nach-oben.html

    Europe is about to shift brutally to the right on migration and asylum. Everyone will follow where Denmark led. I’ve been saying it on here for a while

    Because the alternative is actual Nazis in power. Eventually the voters will rebel and they don’t care if you call them racist

    Feeble Sir Keir means Britain will be last to the party
    Given the problem in Britain is primarily with irregular migration from that war-torn hellscape not fit for human habitation, France, that might just solve Sir Keir's problem without him having to actually do anything.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,969
    Roger said:

    I have a feeling he's going to turn out to be one of the best Prime Minister's we've had. So far he hasn't put a foot wrong and it 's starting to feel like the country's getting it's confidence back. Possibly he'll be the next Atlee.

    Rogerdarmus classic right here.... :D
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,258
    Leon said:

    *sad dark bleakly amused laughter*


    “Chinese lab linked to Covid leak may have also released ANOTHER deadly virus, new research claims

    The Chinese lab that the FBI believes likely leaked Covid-19 may have also released a 'highly evolved' strain of polio in 2014”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-13812803/Chinese-lab-Covid-leak-deadly-virus-wiv14-saukett.html

    Anything else in the Mail?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,969

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    It worked. The strikes are off. The cowardly Tories were fucking hopeless at industrial relations, such that nobody could trust the railway to – you know – actually run a train on time if at all. They were a total and utter failure. In just a few weeks, Labour have achieved more on the railways than the useless Tories did in 14 years.
    Or, alternatively, the unions are so undemocratic they want their bought politicians in power, so they will do anything to undermine a Conservative government.

    And many unions do tend to have an undemocratic trait running through them.
    The trains are running again. Just rejoice at that news.
    For now... But sooner or later they'll be back for more...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    RobD said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Die Welt's main article atm.

    "A large majority of citizens want a fundamentally different migration policy. Very few consider the government to be competent in combating crime and asylum policy - the AfD does better here than all three traffic light parties combined."

    https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article253376310/Migration-das-wichtigste-Problem-Deutschlands-Jetzt-schiesst-der-Wert-nach-oben.html

    Europe is about to shift brutally to the right on migration and asylum. Everyone will follow where Denmark led. I’ve been saying it on here for a while

    Because the alternative is actual Nazis in power. Eventually the voters will rebel and they don’t care if you call them racist

    Feeble Sir Keir means Britain will be last to the party
    Given the problem in Britain is primarily with irregular migration from that war-torn hellscape not fit for human habitation, France, that might just solve Sir Keir's problem without him having to actually do anything.
    C’est vrait

    Starmer might get incredibly lucky if and when the EU gets brutal on migration as, perforce, that means far fewer will reach the channel

    My bet is he’ll still allow masses of legal migration however, so I don’t think this issue is going away even then

    A mighty storm is brewing in Europe
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,089
    edited September 5

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    Indeed it is really hard to see why the government prefers to have doctors, nurses and teachers working rather than striking when we could be paying that same money to retired millionaires instead as a little thank you bonus for winning the second world war.
    I agree, I am in favour of taking away the WFA from the most selfish generation in history, but the optics look bad.

    What they should have done is something like getting rid of the WFA but increasing the pension by that amount but changing the tax allowances for pensioners so the really poor ones would have got it tax free.
    In practice, that's what happened. The inflation spike made the triple lock act strangely- pensions got the inflation boost two years ago and the subsequent pay boost last year. Double bubble as they say.

    That windfall was was more than the WFA. Granny still has more money after inflation to pay her fuel bills than three years ago. But yes, the politics and optics were awful.

    But with nearly five years until the election, that's not something to get excited about.
    Whilst I agree with you, I wonder if it would have been any different without the triple lock? I assume that when they finally get the balls to get rid of it (as they should have long ago) they will revert to some tie to inflation. In which case the rises in pensions would have followed a similar trajectoory even if the triple lock had not been there.

    Reeves does have the opportunity to do some serious rebalancing and rejigging over the next couple of budgets. Dumping the triple lock and making all income subject to the same tax regimes whilst at the same time getting rid of some of the stupid cliff edges would seem to me to be obvious and generally positive moves. Merging IC and NI would be a braver move but again one I would applaud. The trouble is I am not sure she is really interested in doing anything properly radical and just wants to tinker in favour of her own pressure groups just as the Tories did when they were in power with the pensioners.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    RobD said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Die Welt's main article atm.

    "A large majority of citizens want a fundamentally different migration policy. Very few consider the government to be competent in combating crime and asylum policy - the AfD does better here than all three traffic light parties combined."

    https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article253376310/Migration-das-wichtigste-Problem-Deutschlands-Jetzt-schiesst-der-Wert-nach-oben.html

    Europe is about to shift brutally to the right on migration and asylum. Everyone will follow where Denmark led. I’ve been saying it on here for a while

    Because the alternative is actual Nazis in power. Eventually the voters will rebel and they don’t care if you call them racist

    Feeble Sir Keir means Britain will be last to the party
    Given the problem in Britain is primarily with irregular migration from that war-torn hellscape not fit for human habitation, France, that might just solve Sir Keir's problem without him having to actually do anything.
    Well, after we assert our rights in France…
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    edited September 5
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    *sad dark bleakly amused laughter*


    “Chinese lab linked to Covid leak may have also released ANOTHER deadly virus, new research claims

    The Chinese lab that the FBI believes likely leaked Covid-19 may have also released a 'highly evolved' strain of polio in 2014”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-13812803/Chinese-lab-Covid-leak-deadly-virus-wiv14-saukett.html

    Anything else in the Mail?
    What about that alt-right rag, the Guardian?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,571
    On thread

    Hang on to Nurse for fear of something worse..??????.. who knows who.might replace Starmer....
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I have a feeling he's going to turn out to be one of the best Prime Minister's we've had. So far he hasn't put a foot wrong and it 's starting to feel like the country's getting it's confidence back. Possibly he'll be the next Atlee.

    LOL!!
    If you want a buffoon who wears high viz jackets and poses for photo ops all day then he's not for you. But if like most people you just want someone who'll do the right thing for the right reasons and will make sure we get on with our neighbours and don't gratuitously persecute immigrants and will get on with the business of running the government fairly and competently then I don't think we could do much better.
    Yes, that’s roger there, lecturing Britain about its racism from the vantage point of Villefranche-sur-Mer, which directly elected Le Pen’s guy in the first round of the election, no need for a second go
    Good to have the true Blighty perspective spelled out from... (checks) oh, Kotor.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,271
    On the state pension. The current full rate is £11,502 a year. In 2022 it was £9,627 a year. So that's an increase of £1,875 in 2 years, thanks to the triple lock. And, of course, a fair bit of that increase is accounted for by inflationary energy costs.
    In that context, the fuel allowance of £300 is not, I think, as big a deal as people make it out to be - essentially it means that the pension has risen by £1,575 rather than £1,875 over two years.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    *sad dark bleakly amused laughter*


    “Chinese lab linked to Covid leak may have also released ANOTHER deadly virus, new research claims

    The Chinese lab that the FBI believes likely leaked Covid-19 may have also released a 'highly evolved' strain of polio in 2014”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-13812803/Chinese-lab-Covid-leak-deadly-virus-wiv14-saukett.html

    Anything else in the Mail?
    Some nice travel pieces

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-13557679/Italian-tourist-trail-Taranto.html
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,258

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    It worked. The strikes are off. The cowardly Tories were fucking hopeless at industrial relations, such that nobody could trust the railway to – you know – actually run a train on time if at all. They were a total and utter failure. In just a few weeks, Labour have achieved more on the railways than the useless Tories did in 14 years.
    Or, alternatively, the unions are so undemocratic they want their bought politicians in power, so they will do anything to undermine a Conservative government.

    And many unions do tend to have an undemocratic trait running through them.
    Whatever gets you through the night. The trains are running again. Just rejoice at that news.
    How long before the next strike on the railways, then? Remember ASLEF were going to strike over the management of - nationalised - LNER. I expect more of the same shite soon.
    The strikes are off. Those are the facts. Do you remember the shambles under the last government? Clearly you do not.
    I remember the strikes by the unions, yes. If you think that there will be no more rail strikes under this government, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

    You think the unions are friends of Labour. They're not. They're not friends of the public, either.
    They represent a large section of the public. People who work and are members of a union.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,258
    On topic: it's not a bet I'd do. Bit too short.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379

    More likely will Reeves still be CoE ? She's been fairly clumsy so far and SKS likes to remind us how ruthless he is, She'll fall on his sword before he does so himself.

    In what way has she been 'clumsy'? She has been the opposite – sharp and ruthless. The idea that she should court popularity a few weeks into the parliament to support 'Alanbrooke', the bloke on the internet, and the Tory client vote is for the birds.
    The contrast of giving the unions big pay rises and concurrently taking away the winter fuel allowance is clumsy at best and idiotic at worst.
    Indeed it is really hard to see why the government prefers to have doctors, nurses and teachers working rather than striking when we could be paying that same money to retired millionaires instead as a little thank you bonus for winning the second world war.
    I agree, I am in favour of taking away the WFA from the most selfish generation in history, but the optics look bad.

    What they should have done is something like getting rid of the WFA but increasing the pension by that amount but changing the tax allowances for pensioners so the really poor ones would have got it tax free.
    In practice, that's what happened. The inflation spike made the triple lock act strangely- pensions got the inflation boost two years ago and the subsequent pay boost last year. Double bubble as they say.

    That windfall was was more than the WFA. Granny still has more money after inflation to pay her fuel bills than three years ago. But yes, the politics and optics were awful.

    But with nearly five years until the election, that's not something to get excited about.
    Whilst I agree with you, I wonder if it would have been any different without the triple lock? I assume that when they finally get the balls to get rid of it (as they should have long ago) they will revert to some tie to inflation. In which case the rises in pensions would have followed a similar trajectoory even if the triple lock had not been there.

    Reeves does have the opportunity to do some serious rebalancing and rejigging over the next couple of budgets. Dumping the triple lock and making all income subject to the same tax regimes whilst at the same time getting rid of some of the stupid cliff edges would seem to me to be obvious and generally positive moves. Merging IC and NI would be a braver move but again one I would applaud. The trouble is I am not sure she is really interested in doing anything properly radical and just wants to tinker in favour of her own pressure groups just as the Tories did when they were in power with the pensioners.
    Once you've made 'all income subject to the same tax regimes', merging ICT and NI is a piece of piss because it will affect no one.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I have a feeling he's going to turn out to be one of the best Prime Minister's we've had. So far he hasn't put a foot wrong and it 's starting to feel like the country's getting it's confidence back. Possibly he'll be the next Atlee.

    LOL!!
    If you want a buffoon who wears high viz jackets and poses for photo ops all day then he's not for you. But if like most people you just want someone who'll do the right thing for the right reasons and will make sure we get on with our neighbours and don't gratuitously persecute immigrants and will get on with the business of running the government fairly and competently then I don't think we could do much better.
    Yes, that’s roger there, lecturing Britain about its racism from the vantage point of Villefranche-sur-Mer, which directly elected Le Pen’s guy in the first round of the election, no need for a second go
    Good to have the true Blighty perspective spelled out from... (checks) oh, Kotor.
    I met my first montegerin today who has doubts about joining the EU. He’s also the smartest guy I’ve met on this trip. Milos K

    Up until Milos everyone I’ve encountered has been keen (like the whole country). He’s about 30 and very clever and he told me “of course I wanted to join but now I look at Croatia, they lost so many workers due to free movement they had to replace them with people from Asia, is that a good idea for us?”

    Interesting. Its a fabulous country and this has been a fabulous trip
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796
    edited September 5
    Starmer has 50% women in the Cabinet for the first time ever.

    Has fixed the far right race riots in less time than anyone else could have done

    Has got rid of a Gordon Brown gimmick which gave £300 for fuel to the richest cohort in the country.

    Has got the doctors working again and the train drivers with no resentments or hard feelings

    .... and has started to show Israel that it's support isn't guaranteed.

    Not bad for 2 months.....
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I have a feeling he's going to turn out to be one of the best Prime Minister's we've had. So far he hasn't put a foot wrong and it 's starting to feel like the country's getting it's confidence back. Possibly he'll be the next Atlee.

    LOL!!
    If you want a buffoon who wears high viz jackets and poses for photo ops all day then he's not for you. But if like most people you just want someone who'll do the right thing for the right reasons and will make sure we get on with our neighbours and don't gratuitously persecute immigrants and will get on with the business of running the government fairly and competently then I don't think we could do much better.
    Yes, that’s roger there, lecturing Britain about its racism from the vantage point of Villefranche-sur-Mer, which directly elected Le Pen’s guy in the first round of the election, no need for a second go
    Good to have the true Blighty perspective spelled out from... (checks) oh, Kotor.
    I met my first montegerin today who has doubts about joining the EU. He’s also the smartest guy I’ve met on this trip. Milos K

    Up until Milos everyone I’ve encountered has been keen (like the whole country). He’s about 30 and very clever and he told me “of course I wanted to join but now I look at Croatia, they lost so many workers due to free movement they had to replace them with people from Asia, is that a good idea for us?”

    Interesting. Its a fabulous country and this has been a fabulous trip
    That is an interesting point tbf.
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