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What’s this betting market going to look like on Wednesday evening? – politicalbetting.com

2

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,201
    edited September 2

    MattW said:

    FPT: Good morning everyone.

    An acquaintance made the Telegraph this morning, with what is actually a decent story of how supermarkets (M&S here) don't think or consult before doing their interventions to make life greener.

    M&S threatened with legal action over eco-fridges
    Supermarket aims to reduce energy bills by up to a third with new doors that wheelchair user claims are too high for her to reach

    https://archive.ph/fYdg0

    M&S putting doors on food cabinets and low shelves in front that prevent wheelchair users doing their shopping. Here's Flick's twitter thread from June, which M&S have so far not listened to, and my photo quota. Staff can't help when there are no floor staff. She is now going legal, which I admire as it is a tough process on your own.

    Disabled by @marksandspencer yet again ‼️ Now I can no longer shop independently because the chiller cabinet doors pull toward you & these ridiculous racks at the base get caught on wheels & prevent you getting close enough to reach handles let alone food inside
    https://x.com/flickhwilliams/status/1797533326271775015

    Others get it right; so can M&S. 30 years after this stuff became a legal requirement, this is not good enough. There's this thing called the Purple Pound they need to remember.

    From my skeptical view I think the Telegrunt is perhaps interested in trying to feed a "green practices" vs "disabled people" narrative. In reality it's about M&S not consulting properly, and only taking notice once a legal action comes in - just like many organisations still stuck in the stone age. As always, it's really simple, easy stuff to get right.
    The reason they are not responsive is that a whole team of people in M&S management will have been responsible for commissioning the new design.

    Its failure - possibly legally as well - is a disaster for the career of The Glorious Leader of The Team.

    Obviously, sticking your head in the sand and hoping that if you can’t see the problem, the problem can’t see you, is the correct approach.

    As to why it happened - Energy Efficiency is fashionable. Disability access less so. Expecting a generalist manager to understand two domains of specific knowledge at once would be a human rights violation.
    As a full-time wheelchair user I see this sort of thing all the time (see: the near ubiquity of pedal bins in disabled loos for a semi-amusing example.) I am sure it's lack of awareness rather than a deliberate two-fingers to the disabled.

    The answer of course is to employ a group of actual disabled people to try out the new designs before rolling them out widely. I am available for such hard graft on a daily rate equvalent to 50% that of the responsible M&S Exec Director.

    (Awaits pm from M&S's CEO...)


    BLOCKQUOTES_STUFFED_________

    Firstly, it's because people who know what they are doing aren't allowed to be in charge.

    Here, on PB, you will hear people declaiming that you need generalist managers who won't "get bogged down in the detail".

    Secondly, your suggestion of a daily rate of 50% of the Exec Director is absurd. It should be at least 200%. These people believe, deeply, that the more something costs, the better it is. As long as it is at their social level*. Cost cutting is what you do to the peons.

    *By charging more, you are above them.
  • Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    If they said schools were really good, average, or needed improvement, using more words, summarised or weighted across more areas, would that be ok?

    You see, I want it to be fair, humane and reasonable and my real concern here is that there are plenty that just don't think it's appropriate for schools to be rated at all. Firstly, because of pressure that puts on the school and the staff, and, secondly, because it might help contribute to creating a market in education, to which there is ideological opposition.

    If that is the case, then I strongly disagree.
    For now, 99.9% of the report is exactly the same as before. All that has been cut is the headline grade.

    And as with sausages, anyone who knew how that headline grade was generated was extremely suspicious of it. This is just an acknowledgement of that reality.

    And for those about to choose a school, usual top tips:

    Visit on a normal day if you can. Your experience will still be a bit curated, but you will get the best feel for the school that way.

    Remember that headline results (100% pass!) tell you more about the intake than the quality of the education.

    There are very very few schools that are truly unacceptably bad these days- far fewer than when you were at school. In that sense, Ofsted and academisation have worked.

    A lot of pupils success is down to what they do outside the classroom. Make sure they do their homework, and that they read and experience a lot. And then some more.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,367
    The most interesting thing about the Ofsted grading decision, regardless of whether one agrees with it or not, is its immediate implementation. As from today, no report will be issued with an overall one/two word grade, although all the other grades remain.

    Labour said they will do this, but normally you'd expect a process of consultation followed by implementation in, say, September 2025. But no - it's immediate. This decisiveness augurs well for the implementation of other manifesto promises, I reckon. Such speed is quite unusual.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    On the second most important thread topic, I see Leon only has to pop up and provide some kind of opinion on news of the day for at least three triggered posters to jump on him with a combination of ad hom and meaningless retorts. Only Richard T actually engaged with the point.

    People should calm down about Leon and not feel so threatened.

    Now I've seen fucking everything. The Topster doing heterosexual white-knighting for the resident gryovague and shit flouncer.
    Gryovague.
    PB's champion of "Wordle: The Professionals" offers yet more evidence he is actually Will Self.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,350
    TOPPING said:

    I think a critical attribute of a politician is whether they are or are not what I would call "brittle". Or are they flexible.

    A brittle politician could be intelligent, ideological, driven, and sound. But does not have the capacity to ingest information, understand the issues around it, and accommodate in their response the opposing view if only to dismiss it. They would likely continue to make their own point regardless of any differing opinions.

    A flexible politician, conversely, is able to accommodate in their response the possibility that people might disagree with them and understand and acknowledge the counter argument and thereby be able to dismiss it more sincerely.

    I agree with this. There are a couple of related attributes - curiosity and empathy.

    I think we see it on here too, that people find it much easier to be disagreed with if they feel the counterparty has at least heard and understood them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,033
    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Israeli protesters demand ceasefire after six more hostages die in Gaza
    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-09-01/israel-says-bodies-of-six-hostages-recovered-in-gaza

    Britons who fly into an apoplectic rage that ‘anti-semites’ blame Israel as well as Hamas would do well to look at events in Israel and reflect that is the one country in the Middle East where it is safe to join a trade union, to be gay, to follow any religion or none, and even to tell the Prime Minister he is a murderous knob.

    Once again the BBC being utterly evenhanded between a terrorist organisation and (however much you dislike them) an elected democratic government

    The Israeli government says the hostages were shot at close range in the last 48-72 hours. Hamas “disputes this and says they were killed in an Israeli air strike”

    That’s going to be a simple question of fact.
    Yes, although whether a BBC news crew is best placed to conduct post-mortems is questionable. In any case, it slightly misses the point which is that if there had been a negotiated settlement, the hostages would
    not have been shot or blown up.
    Bluntly speaking the word of a terrorist organisation should be discounted.

    A negotiated settlement would be good. Except that Hamas is unwilling to negotiate or step back from their genocidal intent.

    You make peace with your enemies, not your friends.
    You can only make peace when both sides are willing to settle.

    Hamas are not (Bibi - or at least his extreme right flank - doesn’t want to, but can probably be strong armed into a settlement).

    Do you really believe that withdrawing from Gaza and giving them self-government, for example, would result in a peaceful democratic society there?
    I've really no idea how to bring peace to the Middle East, and earlier in this thread I have already praised Israel as the only functioning liberal democracy in the region.

    The tragedy you hint at is that even if the principals were willing to settle, there'd be others on both extremes ready to provoke their opponents and prevent peace.
    A very learned, intelligent, and sensible friend of mine said that the only way was to return to 1967 borders and saturate the area with UN peacekeepers.
    Who's going to kick the settlers out of the West Bank under this scheme? Because no Israeli government would and the settlers are going to shoot anybody who tries.
    Certainly not their government.
    https://x.com/arnondeg/status/1829602366594900312
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    TimS said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    On the second most important thread topic, I see Leon only has to pop up and provide some kind of opinion on news of the day for at least three triggered posters to jump on him with a combination of ad hom and meaningless retorts. Only Richard T actually engaged with the point.

    People should calm down about Leon and not feel so threatened.

    Now I've seen fucking everything. The Topster doing heterosexual white-knighting for the resident gryovague and shit flouncer.
    Gryovague.
    PB's champion of "Wordle: The Professionals" offers yet more evidence he is actually Will Self.
    Gyrovague. It was too late to go back and fix the typo.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949
    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Israeli protesters demand ceasefire after six more hostages die in Gaza
    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-09-01/israel-says-bodies-of-six-hostages-recovered-in-gaza

    Britons who fly into an apoplectic rage that ‘anti-semites’ blame Israel as well as Hamas would do well to look at events in Israel and reflect that is the one country in the Middle East where it is safe to join a trade union, to be gay, to follow any religion or none, and even to tell the Prime Minister he is a murderous knob.

    Once again the BBC being utterly evenhanded between a terrorist organisation and (however much you dislike them) an elected democratic government

    The Israeli government says the hostages were shot at close range in the last 48-72 hours. Hamas “disputes this and says they were killed in an Israeli air strike”

    That’s going to be a simple question of fact.
    Yes, although whether a BBC news crew is best placed to conduct post-mortems is questionable. In any case, it slightly misses the point which is that if there had been a negotiated settlement, the hostages would
    not have been shot or blown up.
    Bluntly speaking the word of a terrorist organisation should be discounted.

    A negotiated settlement would be good. Except that Hamas is unwilling to negotiate or step back from their genocidal intent.

    You make peace with your enemies, not your friends.
    You can only make peace when both sides are willing to settle.

    Hamas are not (Bibi - or at least his extreme right flank - doesn’t want to, but can probably be strong armed into a settlement).

    Do you really believe that withdrawing from Gaza and giving them self-government, for example, would result in a peaceful democratic society there?
    I've really no idea how to bring peace to the Middle East, and earlier in this thread I have already praised Israel as the only functioning liberal democracy in the region.

    The tragedy you hint at is that even if the principals were willing to settle, there'd be others on both extremes ready to provoke their opponents and prevent peace.
    A very learned, intelligent, and sensible friend of mine said that the only way was to return to 1967 borders and saturate the area with UN peacekeepers.
    Who's going to kick the settlers out of the West Bank under this scheme? Because no Israeli government would and the settlers are going to shoot anybody who tries.
    Is of course the issue. I mean they probably said this in July 2005 when Sharon appeared to be no one's idea of an appeasing traitor to Eretz Israel.

    And right now I don't think that it would be politically possible (or advisable but that's just me) to signal a pull out of the West Bank a year after October 7th which would send a clear signal to the regional proxies that maybe Israel itself is up for grabs to be got rid of.

    It also depends, crucially, upon your view of territorial acquisition by war.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,033

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    If they said schools were really good, average, or needed improvement, using more words, summarised or weighted across more areas, would that be ok?

    You see, I want it to be fair, humane and reasonable and my real concern here is that there are plenty that just don't think it's appropriate for schools to be rated at all. Firstly, because of pressure that puts on the school and the staff, and, secondly, because it might help contribute to creating a market in education, to which there is ideological opposition.

    If that is the case, then I strongly disagree.
    For now, 99.9% of the report is exactly the same as before. All that has been cut is the headline grade.

    And as with sausages, anyone who knew how that headline grade was generated was extremely suspicious of it. This is just an acknowledgement of that reality.

    And for those about to choose a school, usual top tips:

    Visit on a normal day if you can. Your experience will still be a bit curated, but you will get the best feel for the school that way.

    Remember that headline results (100% pass!) tell you more about the intake than the quality of the education.

    There are very very few schools that are truly unacceptably bad these days- far fewer than when you were at school. In that sense, Ofsted and academisation have worked.

    A lot of pupils success is down to what they do outside the classroom. Make sure they do their homework, and that they read and experience a lot. And then some more.
    There is also a non zero number of OFSTED inspectors who are unacceptably bad.
    And we have little or no way of knowing how large that number is.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    If they said schools were really good, average, or needed improvement, using more words, summarised or weighted across more areas, would that be ok?

    You see, I want it to be fair, humane and reasonable and my real concern here is that there are plenty that just don't think it's appropriate for schools to be rated at all. Firstly, because of pressure that puts on the school and the staff, and, secondly, because it might help contribute to creating a market in education, to which there is ideological opposition.

    If that is the case, then I strongly disagree.
    For now, 99.9% of the report is exactly the same as before. All that has been cut is the headline grade.

    And as with sausages, anyone who knew how that headline grade was generated was extremely suspicious of it. This is just an acknowledgement of that reality.

    And for those about to choose a school, usual top tips:

    Visit on a normal day if you can. Your experience will still be a bit curated, but you will get the best feel for the school that way.

    Remember that headline results (100% pass!) tell you more about the intake than the quality of the education.

    There are very very few schools that are truly unacceptably bad these days- far fewer than when you were at school. In that sense, Ofsted and academisation have worked.

    A lot of pupils success is down to what they do outside the classroom. Make sure they do their homework, and that they read and experience a lot. And then some more.
    My optimistic side says this may encourage parents to read the actual Ofsted reports rather than just glancing at the grades. I know from our own tours of primary schools years ago that each is very different and has strengths and weaknesses that are invisible if you just look at the headline rating.

    Pessimistic side says it'll just make things more complicated for parents and nobody will read the reports.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    Dura_Ace said:

    TimS said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    On the second most important thread topic, I see Leon only has to pop up and provide some kind of opinion on news of the day for at least three triggered posters to jump on him with a combination of ad hom and meaningless retorts. Only Richard T actually engaged with the point.

    People should calm down about Leon and not feel so threatened.

    Now I've seen fucking everything. The Topster doing heterosexual white-knighting for the resident gryovague and shit flouncer.
    Gryovague.
    PB's champion of "Wordle: The Professionals" offers yet more evidence he is actually Will Self.
    Gyrovague. It was too late to go back and fix the typo.
    I found it via Google anyway
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    It does look like Stride and Patel have the least momentum and the most likely 2 to go out. From my pov of wanting a sensible Tory party back in business, even if I wouldn't necessary want them in charge of anything, and being quite happy with a decent Lib Dem contingent again:

    Stride - is the one who scares me. Sensible, talks like a real person, cares about solutions not just headlines, based in the South West where the Tories are in dire trouble. Good job he'll be the first out.

    Patel - do you attack her on the bullying or the unofficial Israel lobbying? Either way, just too much baggage, and notably disloyal as the ship sank. No threat.

    Jenrick - do you attack him on painting over the mural for children, or for taking bribes for Richard Desmond's planning permission? Corruption and cruelty. He's clearly got something about him and he's had a decent campaign, but no threat due to his baggage being so acute he won't get a hearing beyond it. He hasn't begun to address either in his campaign.

    Cleverly - probably the best chance of holding the Tories together, and forging some purpose. He doesn't look like a revolutionary but strikes me as someone who could surprise on the upside and listen to the wider country. The local Tories here seem to be backing him in numbers, but he's visited multiple times over the past 18 months. Feels he'd be taken seriously in opposition seats.

    Tugendhat - clearly a serious contender, but I find him stilted and the 'One Nation' label seems quite skin deep. Not sure he is all that tough and in throwing out red meat to keep the right on board, I suspect he'd be a bit all over the place as leader. Some respect but doesn't scare me as much as the others.

    Badenoch - a risky choice but maybe the stand out candidate in the field. She would get heard, and take the fight to the Government. Problem is, she'd also keep the Tories warring and her politics is all about those fights and taking people on. Is she really going to win a battle with Doctor Who? If Labour can stay above the factional fights (big if) she could be yesterday's leader very quickly, just a reminder of the old Tory party who they threw out.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    Leon said:

    I have no knowledge of the English Education system other than just having put my eldest daughter through it. We made sure she went to an OUTSTANDING primary and an OUTSTANDING secondary and then an OUTSTANDING sixth form

    Result? She’s just 3 got A starred A levels and now has her pick of universities

    Outstanding. The one thing the Tories did well was education. And now Labour are gonna fuck it up to please the unions

    That's excellent. I'm guessing her mother was very bright?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797
    Nigelb said:

    I think that Texas Senate seat might be in play.
    "Lose Cruz"
    https://x.com/ColinAllredTX/status/1830083242386411532

    The last polling I saw had Cruz only 2% ahead but Democrats have been deluding themselves about their prospects in Texas for nearly all of my adult life and, so far, it has flattered to deceive.
  • The most interesting thing about the Ofsted grading decision, regardless of whether one agrees with it or not, is its immediate implementation. As from today, no report will be issued with an overall one/two word grade, although all the other grades remain.

    Labour said they will do this, but normally you'd expect a process of consultation followed by implementation in, say, September 2025. But no - it's immediate. This decisiveness augurs well for the implementation of other manifesto promises, I reckon. Such speed is quite unusual.

    Looking for a reason to be cheerful, it might be the benefit of have process people, not polemicists, in government.

    Apparently this is an interim thing, before moving to a different model of report in a couple of years time.

    It smells of an answer to the question "how can we improve things within the existing rules" rather than trying to rip things up and start again now now NOW.

    It's a very conservative way of operating.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,033
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think that Texas Senate seat might be in play.
    "Lose Cruz"
    https://x.com/ColinAllredTX/status/1830083242386411532

    The last polling I saw had Cruz only 2% ahead but Democrats have been deluding themselves about their prospects in Texas for nearly all of my adult life and, so far, it has flattered to deceive.
    I just liked the ad.
    There's no market up on the seat yet, AFAIK, and I'd want pretty long odds to bet on it, but it's not impossible.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,402

    Mr. Royale, the Budget in October will be telling. So far, mood music and announcements indicate it'll be about shovelling money towards public sector pay, cutting actual infrastructure investment, and hiking taxes on the wicked public sector.

    The chatter about 'growth' before the election seems to have rather diminished.

    While this helped Labour win on a tidal wave of apathy, that also means there isn't the public support for what they might do, given how quiet and vague they were. This is in rather stark contrast to Cameron and Osborne being open about significant cuts (Labour's likely equivalent, of course, being hiking taxes).

    'Growth' is something they'd like and also seem to think it just will happen through More Government, not being the Tories and sycophantic to the EU.

    They are sorely mistaken.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949
    edited September 2

    TOPPING said:

    I think a critical attribute of a politician is whether they are or are not what I would call "brittle". Or are they flexible.

    A brittle politician could be intelligent, ideological, driven, and sound. But does not have the capacity to ingest information, understand the issues around it, and accommodate in their response the opposing view if only to dismiss it. They would likely continue to make their own point regardless of any differing opinions.

    A flexible politician, conversely, is able to accommodate in their response the possibility that people might disagree with them and understand and acknowledge the counter argument and thereby be able to dismiss it more sincerely.

    I agree with this. There are a couple of related attributes - curiosity and empathy.

    I think we see it on here too, that people find it much easier to be disagreed with if they feel the counterparty has at least heard and understood them.
    Hazel Blears was for me a fantastic example of a steamrolling politician who would simply talk over everyone until her voice was the only one left. It really did work and she would brook no dissent from anyone or about anything she was saying. A hugely effective politician.

    As a worker, though, not as queen bee, where you do need to display those attributes and yes I would absolutely include empathy and curiosity.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,775
    Mr. Topping, rather sad we never got to find out how Sharon leading Kadima might've gotten on, both regarding the peace process and reorganising Israel's less than splendid electoral system.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949

    Mr. Topping, rather sad we never got to find out how Sharon leading Kadima might've gotten on, both regarding the peace process and reorganising Israel's less than splendid electoral system.

    There have been a lot of what ifs in the middle east over the past 150 years, Morris.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    On the second most important thread topic, I see Leon only has to pop up and provide some kind of opinion on news of the day for at least three triggered posters to jump on him with a combination of ad hom and meaningless retorts. Only Richard T actually engaged with the point.

    People should calm down about Leon and not feel so threatened.

    Now I've seen fucking everything. The Topster doing heterosexual white-knighting for the resident gryovague and shit flouncer.
    It's up there with C-beams glittering in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate and Morris_Dancer using the reply function.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,866
    Morning all :)

    No skin in the Conservative leadership election game (especially financial). I think assuming how the MPs will vote based on polls of Party members and supporters is a quick way to penury.

    MPs are looking for someone to lead THEM so the relationship any leader has with the MPs is the first hurdle not going straight to the membership or even the general public - at this stage we don't matter, it's the support of MPs which will get any candidate to the last two at which point the game changes.

    I'm not sure Badenoch continuing her feud with David Tennant this morning is all that helpful for her.

    As for yesterday's German state elections, contrary to my earlier prognostications (very grown up), Kretschmer's coalition lost its majority and now has just 57 of the 120 seats in the Landtag. With one Independent, 6 Linke, 15 BSW and 41 AfD on the other side, Government formation is going to be entertaining. Perhaps Kretschmer will keep going with a minoroty coalition and dare the disparate opposition forces to vote him down.

    As for Thuringia, a bit of a mess as I opined last evening. Basically, you have AfD on 32, the combined CDU/SPD on 29 and BSW/Linke on 27 so three blocs, none of whom are anywhere near a majority (45) in the Landtag. Would the other parties join forces to block an AfD minority? All very interesting as someone might have said.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    On the second most important thread topic, I see Leon only has to pop up and provide some kind of opinion on news of the day for at least three triggered posters to jump on him with a combination of ad hom and meaningless retorts. Only Richard T actually engaged with the point.

    People should calm down about Leon and not feel so threatened.

    Now I've seen fucking everything. The Topster doing heterosexual white-knighting for the resident gryovague and shit flouncer.
    It's up there with C-beams glittering in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate and Morris_Dancer using the reply function.
    Don't make me dig out my encomium to Leon last time he was being singled out.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,033
    She's still going on about Dr Who.
    Not a sufficiently serious candidate, I suspect.

    Tomorrow, I launch my
    @renewal2030 campaign to be the next leader of our great Conservative Party.

    Join me at 11.00am, here on X!

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1830296975079842209
  • Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    If they said schools were really good, average, or needed improvement, using more words, summarised or weighted across more areas, would that be ok?

    You see, I want it to be fair, humane and reasonable and my real concern here is that there are plenty that just don't think it's appropriate for schools to be rated at all. Firstly, because of pressure that puts on the school and the staff, and, secondly, because it might help contribute to creating a market in education, to which there is ideological opposition.

    If that is the case, then I strongly disagree.
    Maybe you should have concentrated on English Comprehension when you were at school. I specifically said:

    "Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents the information they need to make choices."

    You are indulging in the classic logical fallacy of claiming that, because I think the system needs changing, I am opposed to inspections and grading as a whole.

    Try reading what I wrote (and trying to understand it) rather than simply exhibiting your knee jerk reaction against any criticism.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,688
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    I have no knowledge of the English Education system other than just having put my eldest daughter through it. We made sure she went to an OUTSTANDING primary and an OUTSTANDING secondary and then an OUTSTANDING sixth form

    Result? She’s just 3 got A starred A levels and now has her pick of universities

    Outstanding. The one thing the Tories did well was education. And now Labour are gonna fuck it up to please the unions

    That's excellent. I'm guessing her mother was very bright?
    Harsh.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,402

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    If they said schools were really good, average, or needed improvement, using more words, summarised or weighted across more areas, would that be ok?

    You see, I want it to be fair, humane and reasonable and my real concern here is that there are plenty that just don't think it's appropriate for schools to be rated at all. Firstly, because of pressure that puts on the school and the staff, and, secondly, because it might help contribute to creating a market in education, to which there is ideological opposition.

    If that is the case, then I strongly disagree.
    Maybe you should have concentrated on English Comprehension when you were at school. I specifically said:

    "Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents the information they need to make choices."

    You are indulging in the classic logical fallacy of claiming that, because I think the system needs changing, I am opposed to inspections and grading as a whole.

    Try reading what I wrote (and trying to understand it) rather than simply exhibiting your knee jerk reaction against any criticism.
    Charming.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,775
    Mr. Topping, further back than that!

    Jewish rebellions and attempts at autonomy were part of the Seleukid trilogy I read some time ago. The Seleukids/Seleucids ran the area before Rome.
  • Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    If they said schools were really good, average, or needed improvement, using more words, summarised or weighted across more areas, would that be ok?

    You see, I want it to be fair, humane and reasonable and my real concern here is that there are plenty that just don't think it's appropriate for schools to be rated at all. Firstly, because of pressure that puts on the school and the staff, and, secondly, because it might help contribute to creating a market in education, to which there is ideological opposition.

    If that is the case, then I strongly disagree.
    Maybe you should have concentrated on English Comprehension when you were at school. I specifically said:

    "Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents the information they need to make choices."

    You are indulging in the classic logical fallacy of claiming that, because I think the system needs changing, I am opposed to inspections and grading as a whole.

    Try reading what I wrote (and trying to understand it) rather than simply exhibiting your knee jerk reaction against any criticism.
    Charming.
    But accurate.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    If they said schools were really good, average, or needed improvement, using more words, summarised or weighted across more areas, would that be ok?

    You see, I want it to be fair, humane and reasonable and my real concern here is that there are plenty that just don't think it's appropriate for schools to be rated at all. Firstly, because of pressure that puts on the school and the staff, and, secondly, because it might help contribute to creating a market in education, to which there is ideological opposition.

    If that is the case, then I strongly disagree.
    For now, 99.9% of the report is exactly the same as before. All that has been cut is the headline grade.

    And as with sausages, anyone who knew how that headline grade was generated was extremely suspicious of it. This is just an acknowledgement of that reality.

    And for those about to choose a school, usual top tips:

    Visit on a normal day if you can. Your experience will still be a bit curated, but you will get the best feel for the school that way.

    Remember that headline results (100% pass!) tell you more about the intake than the quality of the education.

    There are very very few schools that are truly unacceptably bad these days- far fewer than when you were at school. In that sense, Ofsted and academisation have worked.

    A lot of pupils success is down to what they do outside the classroom. Make sure they do their homework, and that they read and experience a lot. And then some more.
    My optimistic side says this may encourage parents to read the actual Ofsted reports rather than just glancing at the grades. I know from our own tours of primary schools years ago that each is very different and has strengths and weaknesses that are invisible if you just look at the headline rating.

    Pessimistic side says it'll just make things more complicated for parents and nobody will read the reports.
    Personally I think that’s on the parents. If you care about school choice for your kids then you need to look into the different factors at play rather than just relying on a single word score.

    Hopefully it might actually push people towards making more informed decisions.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,118
    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    On topic, the time we become a Republic is when a truly useless heir to the throne takes over. It's a lottery, and only a matter of time before another Prince Andrew is first born. It isn't 1688 where we import a distant relative from the Netherlands.

    A Monarchy kept in power via apathy and doing nothing remotely interesting is inherently an unstable genetic losing bet.

    Rubbish. Our "unstable" Monarchy has lasted for more than 350 years without interruption while the "stable" French have had, just since 1789, 16 constitutions including five republics, four monarchies and a dictatorship. It has survived mad kings, lost wars, political crises, domestic scandals and even Megan Markle and is still about the most popular national institution we have.
    Bunch of parasites , sooner they are binned the better. A bigger bunch of grasping troughers you will not find.
    The Auld Alliance is in a rough patch if wholesale binning of the French is proposed :smiley: .

    Nonetheless, I am quite sympathetic to the notion.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,688
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    If they said schools were really good, average, or needed improvement, using more words, summarised or weighted across more areas, would that be ok?

    You see, I want it to be fair, humane and reasonable and my real concern here is that there are plenty that just don't think it's appropriate for schools to be rated at all. Firstly, because of pressure that puts on the school and the staff, and, secondly, because it might help contribute to creating a market in education, to which there is ideological opposition.

    If that is the case, then I strongly disagree.
    For now, 99.9% of the report is exactly the same as before. All that has been cut is the headline grade.

    And as with sausages, anyone who knew how that headline grade was generated was extremely suspicious of it. This is just an acknowledgement of that reality.

    And for those about to choose a school, usual top tips:

    Visit on a normal day if you can. Your experience will still be a bit curated, but you will get the best feel for the school that way.

    Remember that headline results (100% pass!) tell you more about the intake than the quality of the education.

    There are very very few schools that are truly unacceptably bad these days- far fewer than when you were at school. In that sense, Ofsted and academisation have worked.

    A lot of pupils success is down to what they do outside the classroom. Make sure they do their homework, and that they read and experience a lot. And then some more.
    My optimistic side says this may encourage parents to read the actual Ofsted reports rather than just glancing at the grades. I know from our own tours of primary schools years ago that each is very different and has strengths and weaknesses that are invisible if you just look at the headline rating.

    Pessimistic side says it'll just make things more complicated for parents and nobody will read the reports.
    I far more up to speed with care CQC ratings. They have similar system: headline word like "good", "needs improvement" etc plus further detail in a report.

    My impression from speaking about care homes with various family members for various reasons is that often people just look at the headline word and say "well CQC say it's 'good', so put that down on our list" and don't read the full report.

    As I am details nutter - I always read the full report.



  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    True dat.

    https://x.com/jathansadowski/status/1830487528635560183

    The BBC has been coming out with some clunkers re. AfD but no one will beat Brillo's Teutonic insights. I guess Germany is now in its biggest politcal crisis since 2017.

    Germany tonight in its biggest political crisis since late 1940s. Bigger even than UK’s current ongoing political crisis.
    — Andrew Neil (@afneil) November 20, 2017
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think that Texas Senate seat might be in play.
    "Lose Cruz"
    https://x.com/ColinAllredTX/status/1830083242386411532

    The last polling I saw had Cruz only 2% ahead but Democrats have been deluding themselves about their prospects in Texas for nearly all of my adult life and, so far, it has flattered to deceive.
    I just liked the ad.
    There's no market up on the seat yet, AFAIK, and I'd want pretty long odds to bet on it, but it's not impossible.
    The idea that Andy Burnham might be held responsible for that bloody shambles yesterday is not particularly rational, tempting though it is.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,411
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    At the end of this Labour government English education will be considerably worse and we will likely have followed Scotland down the PISA rankings. This is all about producer interest; pleasing the teacher unions (the same guys that insisted on closing the schools for two years for covid, so they could all lie on the sofa, and now belatedly we realise this has crocked all the kids). We’re fucked
    I would like to propose a new PB button, which I shall call the "Moving the goalposts" button.

    This is will work alongside the existing "Like" and "Report" buttons, and should be used in the following scenario:

    Person A says something
    Person B produces evidence suggesting A might not be true
    Person A ignores said evidence completely and instead makes a vaguely related point in a way that suggests they are refuting person B, when they are in fact ignoring whatever point they made

    So.

    Person A: God Labour have really fucked up the schools inspection service, just look at case X
    Person B: The schools inspection service was fucked up under the Conservatives, and case X happened when they were in power
    Person A: Labour are really going to fuck up education, we'll falling down the Pisa Ratings for sure

    In this circumstance, I'd invite you all to smash the "Moving the Goalposts" button.
    Let's walk before we can run.
  • TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    If they said schools were really good, average, or needed improvement, using more words, summarised or weighted across more areas, would that be ok?

    You see, I want it to be fair, humane and reasonable and my real concern here is that there are plenty that just don't think it's appropriate for schools to be rated at all. Firstly, because of pressure that puts on the school and the staff, and, secondly, because it might help contribute to creating a market in education, to which there is ideological opposition.

    If that is the case, then I strongly disagree.
    For now, 99.9% of the report is exactly the same as before. All that has been cut is the headline grade.

    And as with sausages, anyone who knew how that headline grade was generated was extremely suspicious of it. This is just an acknowledgement of that reality.

    And for those about to choose a school, usual top tips:

    Visit on a normal day if you can. Your experience will still be a bit curated, but you will get the best feel for the school that way.

    Remember that headline results (100% pass!) tell you more about the intake than the quality of the education.

    There are very very few schools that are truly unacceptably bad these days- far fewer than when you were at school. In that sense, Ofsted and academisation have worked.

    A lot of pupils success is down to what they do outside the classroom. Make sure they do their homework, and that they read and experience a lot. And then some more.
    My optimistic side says this may encourage parents to read the actual Ofsted reports rather than just glancing at the grades. I know from our own tours of primary schools years ago that each is very different and has strengths and weaknesses that are invisible if you just look at the headline rating.

    Pessimistic side says it'll just make things more complicated for parents and nobody will read the reports.
    I far more up to speed with care CQC ratings. They have similar system: headline word like "good", "needs improvement" etc plus further detail in a report.

    My impression from speaking about care homes with various family members for various reasons is that often people just look at the headline word and say "well CQC say it's 'good', so put that down on our list" and don't read the full report.

    As I am details nutter - I always read the full report.



    It's quite possible that the headline grades were/are so misleading and so prominent that removing them makes the nation better informed about the system being inspected.
  • Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    If they said schools were really good, average, or needed improvement, using more words, summarised or weighted across more areas, would that be ok?

    You see, I want it to be fair, humane and reasonable and my real concern here is that there are plenty that just don't think it's appropriate for schools to be rated at all. Firstly, because of pressure that puts on the school and the staff, and, secondly, because it might help contribute to creating a market in education, to which there is ideological opposition.

    If that is the case, then I strongly disagree.
    Maybe you should have concentrated on English Comprehension when you were at school. I specifically said:

    "Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents the information they need to make choices."

    You are indulging in the classic logical fallacy of claiming that, because I think the system needs changing, I am opposed to inspections and grading as a whole.

    Try reading what I wrote (and trying to understand it) rather than simply exhibiting your knee jerk reaction against any criticism.
    Charming.
    What a wonderfully ironic response.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    At the end of this Labour government English education will be considerably worse and we will likely have followed Scotland down the PISA rankings. This is all about producer interest; pleasing the teacher unions (the same guys that insisted on closing the schools for two years for covid, so they could all lie on the sofa, and now belatedly we realise this has crocked all the kids). We’re fucked
    I would like to propose a new PB button, which I shall call the "Moving the goalposts" button.

    This is will work alongside the existing "Like" and "Report" buttons, and should be used in the following scenario:

    Person A says something
    Person B produces evidence suggesting A might not be true
    Person A ignores said evidence completely and instead makes a vaguely related point in a way that suggests they are refuting person B, when they are in fact ignoring whatever point they made

    So.

    Person A: God Labour have really fucked up the schools inspection service, just look at case X
    Person B: The schools inspection service was fucked up under the Conservatives, and case X happened when they were in power
    Person A: Labour are really going to fuck up education, we'll falling down the Pisa Ratings for sure

    In this circumstance, I'd invite you all to smash the "Moving the Goalposts" button.
    Even after years on here, I still get surprised when I see ardently argued contributions where the writer clearly has just NOT FUCKING READ the post to which they are responding.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,201
    a

    True dat.

    https://x.com/jathansadowski/status/1830487528635560183

    The BBC has been coming out with some clunkers re. AfD but no one will beat Brillo's Teutonic insights. I guess Germany is now in its biggest politcal crisis since 2017.

    Germany tonight in its biggest political crisis since late 1940s. Bigger even than UK’s current ongoing political crisis.
    — Andrew Neil (@afneil) November 20, 2017

    There is something to be said for that, actually. Post war German politics in West Germany was a procession of the worthy.

    The AfD getting most votes in a region is a Holy! Shit! moment. I think, objectively worse than Reform doing the same in a UK region/nation.


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,033
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think that Texas Senate seat might be in play.
    "Lose Cruz"
    https://x.com/ColinAllredTX/status/1830083242386411532

    The last polling I saw had Cruz only 2% ahead but Democrats have been deluding themselves about their prospects in Texas for nearly all of my adult life and, so far, it has flattered to deceive.
    I just liked the ad.
    There's no market up on the seat yet, AFAIK, and I'd want pretty long odds to bet on it, but it's not impossible.
    The idea that Andy Burnham might be held responsible for that bloody shambles yesterday is not particularly rational, tempting though it is.
    This is Ted Cruz, though...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414
    Dura_Ace said:

    TimS said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    On the second most important thread topic, I see Leon only has to pop up and provide some kind of opinion on news of the day for at least three triggered posters to jump on him with a combination of ad hom and meaningless retorts. Only Richard T actually engaged with the point.

    People should calm down about Leon and not feel so threatened.

    Now I've seen fucking everything. The Topster doing heterosexual white-knighting for the resident gryovague and shit flouncer.
    Gryovague.
    PB's champion of "Wordle: The Professionals" offers yet more evidence he is actually Will Self.
    Gyrovague. It was too late to go back and fix the typo.
    Thanks. Another word, and when I looked it up, occupation, I'd not come across before. Thanks.
    Always happy to learn something new.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949
    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    At the end of this Labour government English education will be considerably worse and we will likely have followed Scotland down the PISA rankings. This is all about producer interest; pleasing the teacher unions (the same guys that insisted on closing the schools for two years for covid, so they could all lie on the sofa, and now belatedly we realise this has crocked all the kids). We’re fucked
    I would like to propose a new PB button, which I shall call the "Moving the goalposts" button.

    This is will work alongside the existing "Like" and "Report" buttons, and should be used in the following scenario:

    Person A says something
    Person B produces evidence suggesting A might not be true
    Person A ignores said evidence completely and instead makes a vaguely related point in a way that suggests they are refuting person B, when they are in fact ignoring whatever point they made

    So.

    Person A: God Labour have really fucked up the schools inspection service, just look at case X
    Person B: The schools inspection service was fucked up under the Conservatives, and case X happened when they were in power
    Person A: Labour are really going to fuck up education, we'll falling down the Pisa Ratings for sure

    In this circumstance, I'd invite you all to smash the "Moving the Goalposts" button.
    Even after years on here, I still get surprised when I see ardently argued contributions where the writer clearly has just NOT FUCKING READ the post to which they are responding.
    Life is short. Next thing you'll tell me you read the headers.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,402

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    If they said schools were really good, average, or needed improvement, using more words, summarised or weighted across more areas, would that be ok?

    You see, I want it to be fair, humane and reasonable and my real concern here is that there are plenty that just don't think it's appropriate for schools to be rated at all. Firstly, because of pressure that puts on the school and the staff, and, secondly, because it might help contribute to creating a market in education, to which there is ideological opposition.

    If that is the case, then I strongly disagree.
    Maybe you should have concentrated on English Comprehension when you were at school. I specifically said:

    "Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents the information they need to make choices."

    You are indulging in the classic logical fallacy of claiming that, because I think the system needs changing, I am opposed to inspections and grading as a whole.

    Try reading what I wrote (and trying to understand it) rather than simply exhibiting your knee jerk reaction against any criticism.
    Charming.
    But accurate.
    Not especially.

    I said, "there are plenty" before outlining my scepticism regarding those who oppose it. That wasn't directed at you but was a broader point, upon which I was genuinely interested in your point of view, but you decided to take it as some sort of personal attack to which you overreacted.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    At the end of this Labour government English education will be considerably worse and we will likely have followed Scotland down the PISA rankings. This is all about producer interest; pleasing the teacher unions (the same guys that insisted on closing the schools for two years for covid, so they could all lie on the sofa, and now belatedly we realise this has crocked all the kids). We’re fucked
    I would like to propose a new PB button, which I shall call the "Moving the goalposts" button.

    This is will work alongside the existing "Like" and "Report" buttons, and should be used in the following scenario:

    Person A says something
    Person B produces evidence suggesting A might not be true
    Person A ignores said evidence completely and instead makes a vaguely related point in a way that suggests they are refuting person B, when they are in fact ignoring whatever point they made

    So.

    Person A: God Labour have really fucked up the schools inspection service, just look at case X
    Person B: The schools inspection service was fucked up under the Conservatives, and case X happened when they were in power
    Person A: Labour are really going to fuck up education, we'll falling down the Pisa Ratings for sure

    In this circumstance, I'd invite you all to smash the "Moving the Goalposts" button.
    Or as politicians have done since time immemorial, when faced with an awkward question, say, at 8.10am on R4 "that's not the question you should have asked me; the question you should have asked me is...."
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,201
    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    On topic, the time we become a Republic is when a truly useless heir to the throne takes over. It's a lottery, and only a matter of time before another Prince Andrew is first born. It isn't 1688 where we import a distant relative from the Netherlands.

    A Monarchy kept in power via apathy and doing nothing remotely interesting is inherently an unstable genetic losing bet.

    Rubbish. Our "unstable" Monarchy has lasted for more than 350 years without interruption while the "stable" French have had, just since 1789, 16 constitutions including five republics, four monarchies and a dictatorship. It has survived mad kings, lost wars, political crises, domestic scandals and even Megan Markle and is still about the most popular national institution we have.
    Bunch of parasites , sooner they are binned the better. A bigger bunch of grasping troughers you will not find.
    The Auld Alliance is in a rough patch if wholesale binning of the French is proposed :smiley: .

    Nonetheless, I am quite sympathetic to the notion.
    The @TheScreamingEagles & I agree on the methodology for reversing BREXIT and a.... deeper.... relationship with France.

    The monarchy is key to realising this plan.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,118
    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    At the end of this Labour government English education will be considerably worse and we will likely have followed Scotland down the PISA rankings. This is all about producer interest; pleasing the teacher unions (the same guys that insisted on closing the schools for two years for covid, so they could all lie on the sofa, and now belatedly we realise this has crocked all the kids). We’re fucked
    I would like to propose a new PB button, which I shall call the "Moving the goalposts" button.

    This is will work alongside the existing "Like" and "Report" buttons, and should be used in the following scenario:

    Person A says something
    Person B produces evidence suggesting A might not be true
    Person A ignores said evidence completely and instead makes a vaguely related point in a way that suggests they are refuting person B, when they are in fact ignoring whatever point they made

    So.

    Person A: God Labour have really fucked up the schools inspection service, just look at case X
    Person B: The schools inspection service was fucked up under the Conservatives, and case X happened when they were in power
    Person A: Labour are really going to fuck up education, we'll falling down the Pisa Ratings for sure

    In this circumstance, I'd invite you all to smash the "Moving the Goalposts" button.
    Even after years on here, I still get surprised when I see ardently argued contributions where the writer clearly has just NOT FUCKING READ the post to which they are responding.
    Don't we need a KLAXON not a button?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,402
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    At the end of this Labour government English education will be considerably worse and we will likely have followed Scotland down the PISA rankings. This is all about producer interest; pleasing the teacher unions (the same guys that insisted on closing the schools for two years for covid, so they could all lie on the sofa, and now belatedly we realise this has crocked all the kids). We’re fucked
    I would like to propose a new PB button, which I shall call the "Moving the goalposts" button.

    This is will work alongside the existing "Like" and "Report" buttons, and should be used in the following scenario:

    Person A says something
    Person B produces evidence suggesting A might not be true
    Person A ignores said evidence completely and instead makes a vaguely related point in a way that suggests they are refuting person B, when they are in fact ignoring whatever point they made

    So.

    Person A: God Labour have really fucked up the schools inspection service, just look at case X
    Person B: The schools inspection service was fucked up under the Conservatives, and case X happened when they were in power
    Person A: Labour are really going to fuck up education, we'll falling down the Pisa Ratings for sure

    In this circumstance, I'd invite you all to smash the "Moving the Goalposts" button.
    Labour would object to goalposts on principle, on the basis that allowed someone to keep score.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,201
    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    At the end of this Labour government English education will be considerably worse and we will likely have followed Scotland down the PISA rankings. This is all about producer interest; pleasing the teacher unions (the same guys that insisted on closing the schools for two years for covid, so they could all lie on the sofa, and now belatedly we realise this has crocked all the kids). We’re fucked
    I would like to propose a new PB button, which I shall call the "Moving the goalposts" button.

    This is will work alongside the existing "Like" and "Report" buttons, and should be used in the following scenario:

    Person A says something
    Person B produces evidence suggesting A might not be true
    Person A ignores said evidence completely and instead makes a vaguely related point in a way that suggests they are refuting person B, when they are in fact ignoring whatever point they made

    So.

    Person A: God Labour have really fucked up the schools inspection service, just look at case X
    Person B: The schools inspection service was fucked up under the Conservatives, and case X happened when they were in power
    Person A: Labour are really going to fuck up education, we'll falling down the Pisa Ratings for sure

    In this circumstance, I'd invite you all to smash the "Moving the Goalposts" button.
    Even after years on here, I still get surprised when I see ardently argued contributions where the writer clearly has just NOT FUCKING READ the post to which they are responding.
    Why? Political debate is based on ignoring what your questioner/opponent says and answering your own question.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    At the end of this Labour government English education will be considerably worse and we will likely have followed Scotland down the PISA rankings. This is all about producer interest; pleasing the teacher unions (the same guys that insisted on closing the schools for two years for covid, so they could all lie on the sofa, and now belatedly we realise this has crocked all the kids). We’re fucked
    I would like to propose a new PB button, which I shall call the "Moving the goalposts" button.

    This is will work alongside the existing "Like" and "Report" buttons, and should be used in the following scenario:

    Person A says something
    Person B produces evidence suggesting A might not be true
    Person A ignores said evidence completely and instead makes a vaguely related point in a way that suggests they are refuting person B, when they are in fact ignoring whatever point they made

    So.

    Person A: God Labour have really fucked up the schools inspection service, just look at case X
    Person B: The schools inspection service was fucked up under the Conservatives, and case X happened when they were in power
    Person A: Labour are really going to fuck up education, we'll falling down the Pisa Ratings for sure

    In this circumstance, I'd invite you all to smash the "Moving the Goalposts" button.
    Even after years on here, I still get surprised when I see ardently argued contributions where the writer clearly has just NOT FUCKING READ the post to which they are responding.
    It's true to real life though.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    At the end of this Labour government English education will be considerably worse and we will likely have followed Scotland down the PISA rankings. This is all about producer interest; pleasing the teacher unions (the same guys that insisted on closing the schools for two years for covid, so they could all lie on the sofa, and now belatedly we realise this has crocked all the kids). We’re fucked
    I would like to propose a new PB button, which I shall call the "Moving the goalposts" button.

    This is will work alongside the existing "Like" and "Report" buttons, and should be used in the following scenario:

    Person A says something
    Person B produces evidence suggesting A might not be true
    Person A ignores said evidence completely and instead makes a vaguely related point in a way that suggests they are refuting person B, when they are in fact ignoring whatever point they made

    So.

    Person A: God Labour have really fucked up the schools inspection service, just look at case X
    Person B: The schools inspection service was fucked up under the Conservatives, and case X happened when they were in power
    Person A: Labour are really going to fuck up education, we'll falling down the Pisa Ratings for sure

    In this circumstance, I'd invite you all to smash the "Moving the Goalposts" button.
    Even after years on here, I still get surprised when I see ardently argued contributions where the writer clearly has just NOT FUCKING READ the post to which they are responding.
    Barty's a master of that. Even when you're actually expressing tentative agreement with one of his less contentious ideas, he'll still manage to argue doggedly against whatever he imagines you might have written.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,883

    Israeli protesters demand ceasefire after six more hostages die in Gaza
    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-09-01/israel-says-bodies-of-six-hostages-recovered-in-gaza

    Britons who fly into an apoplectic rage that ‘anti-semites’ blame Israel as well as Hamas would do well to look at events in Israel and reflect that is the one country in the Middle East where it is safe to join a trade union, to be gay, to follow any religion or none, and even to tell the Prime Minister he is a murderous knob.

    Once again the BBC being utterly evenhanded between a terrorist organisation and (however much you dislike them) an elected democratic government

    The Israeli government says the hostages were shot at close range in the last 48-72 hours. Hamas “disputes this and says they were killed in an Israeli air strike”

    That’s going to be a simple question of fact.
    Yes, although whether a BBC news crew is best placed to conduct post-mortems is questionable. In any case, it slightly misses the point which is that if there had been a negotiated settlement, the hostages would
    not have been shot or blown up.
    Bluntly speaking the word of a terrorist organisation should be discounted.

    A negotiated settlement would be good. Except that Hamas is unwilling to negotiate or step back from their genocidal intent.

    You make peace with your enemies, not your friends.
    You can only make peace when both sides are willing to settle.

    Hamas are not (Bibi - or at least his extreme right flank - doesn’t want to, but can probably be strong armed into a settlement).

    Do you really believe that withdrawing from Gaza and giving them self-government, for example, would result in a peaceful democratic society there?
    Reasonably good testimony on how democratic Israel are in the territories they control. This time the West Bank. Worth listening to.

    https://x.com/naomi4labnec/status/1830037267483603012?s=43
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,110

    Israeli protesters demand ceasefire after six more hostages die in Gaza
    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-09-01/israel-says-bodies-of-six-hostages-recovered-in-gaza

    Britons who fly into an apoplectic rage that ‘anti-semites’ blame Israel as well as Hamas would do well to look at events in Israel and reflect that is the one country in the Middle East where it is safe to join a trade union, to be gay, to follow any religion or none, and even to tell the Prime Minister he is a murderous knob.

    Once again the BBC being utterly evenhanded between a terrorist organisation and (however much you dislike them) an elected democratic government

    The Israeli government says the hostages were shot at close range in the last 48-72 hours. Hamas “disputes this and says they were killed in an Israeli air strike”

    That’s going to be a simple question of fact.
    Yes, although whether a BBC news crew is best placed to conduct post-mortems is questionable. In any case, it slightly misses the point which is that if there had been a negotiated settlement, the hostages would
    not have been shot or blown up.
    Bluntly speaking the word of a terrorist organisation should be discounted.

    A negotiated settlement would be good. Except that Hamas is unwilling to negotiate or step back from their genocidal intent.

    You make peace with your enemies, not your friends.
    You can only make peace when both sides are willing to settle.

    Hamas are not (Bibi - or at least his extreme right flank - doesn’t want to, but can probably be strong armed into a settlement).

    Do you really believe that withdrawing from Gaza and giving them self-government, for example, would result in a peaceful democratic society there?
    On your first point: Can they?

    If Bibi wasn't facing corruption charges, then maybe it would be possible. But his coalition - and his ministers - include people who have openly called for expelling all the Palestinians from the West Bank. Those Settler MPs aren't in any mood to compromise, no matter what the rest of world thinks.

    Let's not forget, it was the Right in Israel that killed the last PM to get close to peace with the Palestinians.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,201
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think that Texas Senate seat might be in play.
    "Lose Cruz"
    https://x.com/ColinAllredTX/status/1830083242386411532

    The last polling I saw had Cruz only 2% ahead but Democrats have been deluding themselves about their prospects in Texas for nearly all of my adult life and, so far, it has flattered to deceive.
    I just liked the ad.
    There's no market up on the seat yet, AFAIK, and I'd want pretty long odds to bet on it, but it's not impossible.
    The idea that Andy Burnham might be held responsible for that bloody shambles yesterday is not particularly rational, tempting though it is.
    This is Ted Cruz, though...
    Does anyone like Ted Cruz? Does even *Ted Cruz* like Ted Cruz?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950

    a

    True dat.

    https://x.com/jathansadowski/status/1830487528635560183

    The BBC has been coming out with some clunkers re. AfD but no one will beat Brillo's Teutonic insights. I guess Germany is now in its biggest politcal crisis since 2017.

    Germany tonight in its biggest political crisis since late 1940s. Bigger even than UK’s current ongoing political crisis.
    — Andrew Neil (@afneil) November 20, 2017

    There is something to be said for that, actually. Post war German politics in West Germany was a procession of the worthy.

    The AfD getting most votes in a region is a Holy! Shit! moment. I think, objectively worse than Reform doing the same in a UK region/nation.


    Yebbut Neil's hyperbolic post in 2017 was about a few teething problems in pulling together a coalition. I don't think there's anyone in contemporary commentary more fond of the sound of his own opinions.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,866
    The Bundnis Wagenknecht (BSW) performance is noteworthy. 16% in Thuringia, 12% in Saxony from a standing start.

    For those numbskulls who insist on throwing terms like "Left" and "Right" around, BSW are a problem. Socially conservative, anti immigration, nationalist but wanting a strong socialist State. I suspect they are much closer to parts of the AfD voter base than the leaderships of either party would want to admit. I'm not sure where AfD stands on economics/finance for example.

    While the parallels are far from obvious and exact, a BSW-style grouping emerging from out of anti-Labour Independents (who are currently more about Gaza) and supporters of a more Corbyn-style approach isn't inconceivable in the UK but unlikely currently.

    I sense a schism between the Reform leadership (Farage and Tice) and some of the voters/members. Yes, they can agree on immigration but beyond that, the Thatcherite musings of the leadership don't, I suspect, chime with the membership/voters who want public money spent in WWC areas and were enthusiastic supporters of elements of Johnson' "levelling up" agenda.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,201

    a

    True dat.

    https://x.com/jathansadowski/status/1830487528635560183

    The BBC has been coming out with some clunkers re. AfD but no one will beat Brillo's Teutonic insights. I guess Germany is now in its biggest politcal crisis since 2017.

    Germany tonight in its biggest political crisis since late 1940s. Bigger even than UK’s current ongoing political crisis.
    — Andrew Neil (@afneil) November 20, 2017

    There is something to be said for that, actually. Post war German politics in West Germany was a procession of the worthy.

    The AfD getting most votes in a region is a Holy! Shit! moment. I think, objectively worse than Reform doing the same in a UK region/nation.


    Yebbut Neil's hyperbolic post in 2017 was about a few teething problems in pulling together a coalition. I don't think there's anyone in contemporary commentary more fond of the sound of his own opinions.
    "I don't think there's anyone in contemporary commentary more fond of the sound of his own opinions" - that's a bold statement. You're talking about a domain where being a demented narcissist is a basic job requirement.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949
    rcs1000 said:

    Israeli protesters demand ceasefire after six more hostages die in Gaza
    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-09-01/israel-says-bodies-of-six-hostages-recovered-in-gaza

    Britons who fly into an apoplectic rage that ‘anti-semites’ blame Israel as well as Hamas would do well to look at events in Israel and reflect that is the one country in the Middle East where it is safe to join a trade union, to be gay, to follow any religion or none, and even to tell the Prime Minister he is a murderous knob.

    Once again the BBC being utterly evenhanded between a terrorist organisation and (however much you dislike them) an elected democratic government

    The Israeli government says the hostages were shot at close range in the last 48-72 hours. Hamas “disputes this and says they were killed in an Israeli air strike”

    That’s going to be a simple question of fact.
    Yes, although whether a BBC news crew is best placed to conduct post-mortems is questionable. In any case, it slightly misses the point which is that if there had been a negotiated settlement, the hostages would
    not have been shot or blown up.
    Bluntly speaking the word of a terrorist organisation should be discounted.

    A negotiated settlement would be good. Except that Hamas is unwilling to negotiate or step back from their genocidal intent.

    You make peace with your enemies, not your friends.
    You can only make peace when both sides are willing to settle.

    Hamas are not (Bibi - or at least his extreme right flank - doesn’t want to, but can probably be strong armed into a settlement).

    Do you really believe that withdrawing from Gaza and giving them self-government, for example, would result in a peaceful democratic society there?
    On your first point: Can they?

    If Bibi wasn't facing corruption charges, then maybe it would be possible. But his coalition - and his ministers - include people who have openly called for expelling all the Palestinians from the West Bank. Those Settler MPs aren't in any mood to compromise, no matter what the rest of world thinks.

    Let's not forget, it was the Right in Israel that killed the last PM to get close to peace with the Palestinians.
    Israel has long been willing to trade land for peace and indeed were hoping to do so 10 years after that PM was killed.

    There are (left and right) nutters everywhere and one shouldn't look at society threw the lens of a nutter.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think that Texas Senate seat might be in play.
    "Lose Cruz"
    https://x.com/ColinAllredTX/status/1830083242386411532

    The last polling I saw had Cruz only 2% ahead but Democrats have been deluding themselves about their prospects in Texas for nearly all of my adult life and, so far, it has flattered to deceive.
    I just liked the ad.
    There's no market up on the seat yet, AFAIK, and I'd want pretty long odds to bet on it, but it's not impossible.
    The idea that Andy Burnham might be held responsible for that bloody shambles yesterday is not particularly rational, tempting though it is.
    This is Ted Cruz, though...
    When I were a lad Texas was reliably Democratic, as was the rest of the Old South. The switch in US politics has been amazing, and something which observers of politics should take note.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Kemi Badenoch declares a War on Doctor Who and on the Causes of Doctor Who in her Renew campaign.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,201
    stodge said:

    The Bundnis Wagenknecht (BSW) performance is noteworthy. 16% in Thuringia, 12% in Saxony from a standing start.

    For those numbskulls who insist on throwing terms like "Left" and "Right" around, BSW are a problem. Socially conservative, anti immigration, nationalist but wanting a strong socialist State. I suspect they are much closer to parts of the AfD voter base than the leaderships of either party would want to admit. I'm not sure where AfD stands on economics/finance for example.

    While the parallels are far from obvious and exact, a BSW-style grouping emerging from out of anti-Labour Independents (who are currently more about Gaza) and supporters of a more Corbyn-style approach isn't inconceivable in the UK but unlikely currently.

    I sense a schism between the Reform leadership (Farage and Tice) and some of the voters/members. Yes, they can agree on immigration but beyond that, the Thatcherite musings of the leadership don't, I suspect, chime with the membership/voters who want public money spent in WWC areas and were enthusiastic supporters of elements of Johnson' "levelling up" agenda.

    And the BSW hark back to some very old themes in German politics - going back to before 1870.
  • a

    True dat.

    https://x.com/jathansadowski/status/1830487528635560183

    The BBC has been coming out with some clunkers re. AfD but no one will beat Brillo's Teutonic insights. I guess Germany is now in its biggest politcal crisis since 2017.

    Germany tonight in its biggest political crisis since late 1940s. Bigger even than UK’s current ongoing political crisis.
    — Andrew Neil (@afneil) November 20, 2017

    There is something to be said for that, actually. Post war German politics in West Germany was a procession of the worthy.

    The AfD getting most votes in a region is a Holy! Shit! moment. I think, objectively worse than Reform doing the same in a UK region/nation.


    On one hand, it's just maths. The more parties, the more likely that someone freaky is going to come out on top.

    But that isn't the whole answer- why are there so many parties, why are shysters able to get a following? Something's not right in eastern Germany, and both AfD and BSW are manifestations of that.
  • Mr. Topping, rather sad we never got to find out how Sharon leading Kadima might've gotten on, both regarding the peace process and reorganising Israel's less than splendid electoral system.

    Funny how the PR and coalition advocates rarely mention Israel.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,206

    nico679 said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    The current system is too blunt . Effectively a school can be good in a number of areas but then any good is lost as the school is classed as not up to scratch because of failings in one area. It’s better to give an overview and let the parents decide from that or are we saying parents can’t cope with that can only deal with a one word judgement .
    I can’t see how planned inspections, at a single point in time, show anything other than a very posed portrait of a school.

    Any real measure would surely require spending more time at the school, sitting in lessons etc, Shirley?
    Unplanned (or rather unannounced) inspections would have the advantage that they would portray a school as it is on a random day, rather than after a panicked week of frantically cleaning up first.

    But it would need to be accompanied by a much more pragmatic approach which doesn't expect to find every i dotted or t crossed on a 24/7 basis.

    But I don't see a Labour government doing anything like that - their union client vote won't like it.
  • FF43 said:

    Kemi Badenoch declares a War on Doctor Who and on the Causes of Doctor Who in her Renew campaign.

    She should have called it a Regeneration campaign.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,402

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think that Texas Senate seat might be in play.
    "Lose Cruz"
    https://x.com/ColinAllredTX/status/1830083242386411532

    The last polling I saw had Cruz only 2% ahead but Democrats have been deluding themselves about their prospects in Texas for nearly all of my adult life and, so far, it has flattered to deceive.
    I just liked the ad.
    There's no market up on the seat yet, AFAIK, and I'd want pretty long odds to bet on it, but it's not impossible.
    The idea that Andy Burnham might be held responsible for that bloody shambles yesterday is not particularly rational, tempting though it is.
    This is Ted Cruz, though...
    Does anyone like Ted Cruz? Does even *Ted Cruz* like Ted Cruz?
    Probably not. Such things usually come from a place of deep insecurity.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,688

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    If they said schools were really good, average, or needed improvement, using more words, summarised or weighted across more areas, would that be ok?

    You see, I want it to be fair, humane and reasonable and my real concern here is that there are plenty that just don't think it's appropriate for schools to be rated at all. Firstly, because of pressure that puts on the school and the staff, and, secondly, because it might help contribute to creating a market in education, to which there is ideological opposition.

    If that is the case, then I strongly disagree.
    For now, 99.9% of the report is exactly the same as before. All that has been cut is the headline grade.

    And as with sausages, anyone who knew how that headline grade was generated was extremely suspicious of it. This is just an acknowledgement of that reality.

    And for those about to choose a school, usual top tips:

    Visit on a normal day if you can. Your experience will still be a bit curated, but you will get the best feel for the school that way.

    Remember that headline results (100% pass!) tell you more about the intake than the quality of the education.

    There are very very few schools that are truly unacceptably bad these days- far fewer than when you were at school. In that sense, Ofsted and academisation have worked.

    A lot of pupils success is down to what they do outside the classroom. Make sure they do their homework, and that they read and experience a lot. And then some more.
    My optimistic side says this may encourage parents to read the actual Ofsted reports rather than just glancing at the grades. I know from our own tours of primary schools years ago that each is very different and has strengths and weaknesses that are invisible if you just look at the headline rating.

    Pessimistic side says it'll just make things more complicated for parents and nobody will read the reports.
    I far more up to speed with care CQC ratings. They have similar system: headline word like "good", "needs improvement" etc plus further detail in a report.

    My impression from speaking about care homes with various family members for various reasons is that often people just look at the headline word and say "well CQC say it's 'good', so put that down on our list" and don't read the full report.

    As I am details nutter - I always read the full report.



    It's quite possible that the headline grades were/are so misleading and so prominent that removing them makes the nation better informed about the system being inspected.
    I agree. I think this is the right decision by Labour's next leader. At least worth trying for a parliament and seeing the impact.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,033
    rcs1000 said:

    Israeli protesters demand ceasefire after six more hostages die in Gaza
    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-09-01/israel-says-bodies-of-six-hostages-recovered-in-gaza

    Britons who fly into an apoplectic rage that ‘anti-semites’ blame Israel as well as Hamas would do well to look at events in Israel and reflect that is the one country in the Middle East where it is safe to join a trade union, to be gay, to follow any religion or none, and even to tell the Prime Minister he is a murderous knob.

    Once again the BBC being utterly evenhanded between a terrorist organisation and (however much you dislike them) an elected democratic government

    The Israeli government says the hostages were shot at close range in the last 48-72 hours. Hamas “disputes this and says they were killed in an Israeli air strike”

    That’s going to be a simple question of fact.
    Yes, although whether a BBC news crew is best placed to conduct post-mortems is questionable. In any case, it slightly misses the point which is that if there had been a negotiated settlement, the hostages would
    not have been shot or blown up.
    Bluntly speaking the word of a terrorist organisation should be discounted.

    A negotiated settlement would be good. Except that Hamas is unwilling to negotiate or step back from their genocidal intent.

    You make peace with your enemies, not your friends.
    You can only make peace when both sides are willing to settle.

    Hamas are not (Bibi - or at least his extreme right flank - doesn’t want to, but can probably be strong armed into a settlement).

    Do you really believe that withdrawing from Gaza and giving them self-government, for example, would result in a peaceful democratic society there?
    On your first point: Can they?

    If Bibi wasn't facing corruption charges, then maybe it would be possible. But his coalition - and his ministers - include people who have openly called for expelling all the Palestinians from the West Bank. Those Settler MPs aren't in any mood to compromise, no matter what the rest of world thinks.

    Let's not forget, it was the Right in Israel that killed the last PM to get close to peace with the Palestinians.
    Not this side of the November election, they can't.

    It's pretty obvious that Netanyahu sank what might have been a temporary ceasefire in the last week or so but adding further conditions (in particular full Israeli control of the Gaza border with Egypt) to the provisional deal that had been negotiated.

    Whether that was linked to the phone call with Trump is anyone's guess. But it's also pretty obvious that a Trump presidency is Netanyahu's best chance of staying out of jail.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    stodge said:

    The Bundnis Wagenknecht (BSW) performance is noteworthy. 16% in Thuringia, 12% in Saxony from a standing start.

    For those numbskulls who insist on throwing terms like "Left" and "Right" around, BSW are a problem. Socially conservative, anti immigration, nationalist but wanting a strong socialist State. I suspect they are much closer to parts of the AfD voter base than the leaderships of either party would want to admit. I'm not sure where AfD stands on economics/finance for example.

    While the parallels are far from obvious and exact, a BSW-style grouping emerging from out of anti-Labour Independents (who are currently more about Gaza) and supporters of a more Corbyn-style approach isn't inconceivable in the UK but unlikely currently.

    I sense a schism between the Reform leadership (Farage and Tice) and some of the voters/members. Yes, they can agree on immigration but beyond that, the Thatcherite musings of the leadership don't, I suspect, chime with the membership/voters who want public money spent in WWC areas and were enthusiastic supporters of elements of Johnson' "levelling up" agenda.

    I'm mildly intrigued by a party naming itself after an individual. Even arch egoist Galloway would hesitate to see that as a successful strategy yet it at least seems to not be an obstacle in Germany.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,402
    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    At the end of this Labour government English education will be considerably worse and we will likely have followed Scotland down the PISA rankings. This is all about producer interest; pleasing the teacher unions (the same guys that insisted on closing the schools for two years for covid, so they could all lie on the sofa, and now belatedly we realise this has crocked all the kids). We’re fucked
    I would like to propose a new PB button, which I shall call the "Moving the goalposts" button.

    This is will work alongside the existing "Like" and "Report" buttons, and should be used in the following scenario:

    Person A says something
    Person B produces evidence suggesting A might not be true
    Person A ignores said evidence completely and instead makes a vaguely related point in a way that suggests they are refuting person B, when they are in fact ignoring whatever point they made

    So.

    Person A: God Labour have really fucked up the schools inspection service, just look at case X
    Person B: The schools inspection service was fucked up under the Conservatives, and case X happened when they were in power
    Person A: Labour are really going to fuck up education, we'll falling down the Pisa Ratings for sure

    In this circumstance, I'd invite you all to smash the "Moving the Goalposts" button.
    Even after years on here, I still get surprised when I see ardently argued contributions where the writer clearly has just NOT FUCKING READ the post to which they are responding.
    Life is short. Next thing you'll tell me you read the headers.
    Yes, and how people engage with a post is probably influenced by the name of the poster and how viscerally they feel about both them and the issue.

    Sometimes people want to vent, other times they want a ding-dong, others a good laugh, and other times they are genuinely interested in exploring an issue.

    That's people that is.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,201

    a

    True dat.

    https://x.com/jathansadowski/status/1830487528635560183

    The BBC has been coming out with some clunkers re. AfD but no one will beat Brillo's Teutonic insights. I guess Germany is now in its biggest politcal crisis since 2017.

    Germany tonight in its biggest political crisis since late 1940s. Bigger even than UK’s current ongoing political crisis.
    — Andrew Neil (@afneil) November 20, 2017

    There is something to be said for that, actually. Post war German politics in West Germany was a procession of the worthy.

    The AfD getting most votes in a region is a Holy! Shit! moment. I think, objectively worse than Reform doing the same in a UK region/nation.


    On one hand, it's just maths. The more parties, the more likely that someone freaky is going to come out on top.

    But that isn't the whole answer- why are there so many parties, why are shysters able to get a following? Something's not right in eastern Germany, and both AfD and BSW are manifestations of that.
    Ever since reunification, there have been politicians banging on about how the West has taken over the East as an imperial project.

    Despite vast sums being spent on levelling up, the East remains behind in a number of areas.

    The German economy is stumbling. The East was especially hit - a lot of the factories that fed the export trade are there.

    So a situation, ready made for this kind of thing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,033

    Mr. Topping, rather sad we never got to find out how Sharon leading Kadima might've gotten on, both regarding the peace process and reorganising Israel's less than splendid electoral system.

    Funny how the PR and coalition advocates rarely mention Israel.
    An electoral system in itself doesn't decide whether a society is divided or not - see also the US. PR merely affords better representation of the popular will.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,201
    edited September 2
    theProle said:

    nico679 said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    The current system is too blunt . Effectively a school can be good in a number of areas but then any good is lost as the school is classed as not up to scratch because of failings in one area. It’s better to give an overview and let the parents decide from that or are we saying parents can’t cope with that can only deal with a one word judgement .
    I can’t see how planned inspections, at a single point in time, show anything other than a very posed portrait of a school.

    Any real measure would surely require spending more time at the school, sitting in lessons etc, Shirley?
    Unplanned (or rather unannounced) inspections would have the advantage that they would portray a school as it is on a random day, rather than after a panicked week of frantically cleaning up first.

    But it would need to be accompanied by a much more pragmatic approach which doesn't expect to find every i dotted or t crossed on a 24/7 basis.

    But I don't see a Labour government doing anything like that - their union client vote won't like it.
    The biggest is problem is that such an evaluation requires individual discretion and judgement. Rather than tick boxing.

    There is nothing more abhorrent to the Process State than discretion and individual judgement. The purpose of process is to remove any human judgement, in their view.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Tara Canyon

    So now they fuck up the school inspection system. To please the unions

    This government is like a bad parody of a bad lefty government

    Er no. The school inspection system was already completely fucked up - by the school inspection system.

    Unlike some on here I do believe in having an effective inspection system that grades schools and gives parents what the information they ned to make choices. But the current OFSTED regime is not it. One word judgements belong in the Colosseum or the firing squad, not school standards.
    If they said schools were really good, average, or needed improvement, using more words, summarised or weighted across more areas, would that be ok?

    You see, I want it to be fair, humane and reasonable and my real concern here is that there are plenty that just don't think it's appropriate for schools to be rated at all. Firstly, because of pressure that puts on the school and the staff, and, secondly, because it might help contribute to creating a market in education, to which there is ideological opposition.

    If that is the case, then I strongly disagree.
    For now, 99.9% of the report is exactly the same as before. All that has been cut is the headline grade.

    And as with sausages, anyone who knew how that headline grade was generated was extremely suspicious of it. This is just an acknowledgement of that reality.

    And for those about to choose a school, usual top tips:

    Visit on a normal day if you can. Your experience will still be a bit curated, but you will get the best feel for the school that way.

    Remember that headline results (100% pass!) tell you more about the intake than the quality of the education.

    There are very very few schools that are truly unacceptably bad these days- far fewer than when you were at school. In that sense, Ofsted and academisation have worked.

    A lot of pupils success is down to what they do outside the classroom. Make sure they do their homework, and that they read and experience a lot. And then some more.
    My optimistic side says this may encourage parents to read the actual Ofsted reports rather than just glancing at the grades. I know from our own tours of primary schools years ago that each is very different and has strengths and weaknesses that are invisible if you just look at the headline rating.

    Pessimistic side says it'll just make things more complicated for parents and nobody will read the reports.
    I far more up to speed with care CQC ratings. They have similar system: headline word like "good", "needs improvement" etc plus further detail in a report.

    My impression from speaking about care homes with various family members for various reasons is that often people just look at the headline word and say "well CQC say it's 'good', so put that down on our list" and don't read the full report.

    As I am details nutter - I always read the full report.


    Many years ago, back in the last century(!) I was seconded to whatever the Care Homes Inspection organisation was called in those days. We used to (try and) do two inspections of Homes every year; one 'announced' and one 'unannounced'. Ideally one of the inspections was supposed to be during 'unsocial' hours, although that ideal wasn't often achieved!
    It was rare that we didn't find some cause for comment, although very often there was either a reason for the 'inadequacy' or it was offset by excellence elsewhere.
    I ended up of the view that my opinion should be 'would I be prepared to live there, or place my relatives there.'

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    Kemi Badenoch declares a War on Doctor Who and on the Causes of Doctor Who in her Renew campaign.

    She should have called it a Regeneration campaign.
    "I'm not afraid of Doctor Who" is a slightly odd soundbite to start your campaign with, unless she's the 1960s eight year-old hiding behind the sofa.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Kemi Badenoch declares a War on Doctor Who and on the Causes of Doctor Who in her Renew campaign.

    She should have called it a Regeneration campaign.
    "I'm not afraid of Doctor Who" is a slightly odd soundbite to start your campaign with, unless she's the 1960s eight year-old hiding behind the sofa.
    The Cybermen otoh..

    Were there Cyberwomen, or indeed Cyberpersons?

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,778
    stodge said:

    The Bundnis Wagenknecht (BSW) performance is noteworthy. 16% in Thuringia, 12% in Saxony from a standing start.

    For those numbskulls who insist on throwing terms like "Left" and "Right" around, BSW are a problem. Socially conservative, anti immigration, nationalist but wanting a strong socialist State. I suspect they are much closer to parts of the AfD voter base than the leaderships of either party would want to admit. I'm not sure where AfD stands on economics/finance for example.

    While the parallels are far from obvious and exact, a BSW-style grouping emerging from out of anti-Labour Independents (who are currently more about Gaza) and supporters of a more Corbyn-style approach isn't inconceivable in the UK but unlikely currently.

    I sense a schism between the Reform leadership (Farage and Tice) and some of the voters/members. Yes, they can agree on immigration but beyond that, the Thatcherite musings of the leadership don't, I suspect, chime with the membership/voters who want public money spent in WWC areas and were enthusiastic supporters of elements of Johnson' "levelling up" agenda.

    Your description of BSW sounds depressingly like the Nazi party in the 1930s. Let's hope that German people aren't seduced by such thinking.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jenrick is likely to come top on Wednesday. I expect Tugendhat to do better than expected though and maybe Patel as well

    Where's your vote going?
    Tugendhat, if he gets to the final 2.

    Otherwise Jenrick or Patel
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jenrick is likely to come top on Wednesday. I expect Tugendhat to do better than expected though and maybe Patel as well

    Where's your vote going?
    Tugendhat, if he gets to the final 2.

    Otherwise Jenrick or Patel
    Thx - good call imo. Let the rebuilding begin.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited September 2
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    I don't think Cleverly is up to it, much as he might be my first pick. Kemi as first black woman party leader would be fantastic but she's a bit young imo. Tugendhat from immigrant Jewish stock also I don't think quite up to it. That leaves Priti and, finally, straight white bloke Jenrick who has dead eyes.

    So put that all in a pot and stir it and who do I think will be best? I'm going Tugendhat because he has that Cameroon self-awareness and is sufficiently posh and English to not need to assuage the extremes.

    Really depends which voters the Tories want to regain. Voters lost to the LDs? Tugendhat your man. Voters lost to Labour? Probably Cleverly or Stride.

    Voters lost to Reform? Patel, Badenoch or Jenrick.

    Not yet a candidate though who can rebuild all the 2019 winning Conservative coalition Boris built
    No true. Cameron and Boris (and Blair) were similar in their strongly positive would like to go and have a drink with themness. There is no one who is similarly broad church and sufficiently nimble of intellect and outlook to be able to accommodate any point of view, understand it, and either dismiss or endorse it, all the while assuring you that they get the absurdities.

    But yes also - depends who they want to win back. Elections are always won from the centre, we are told, which also suggests Tugendhat. As we see time and again, the only consequence of trying to pander to the extreme is that the extreme shifts further out and you are back where you started trying to appeal to them.
    Fortunately for the Tories, Starmer is no Blair or even a Cameron and Boris either and he and his government are already unpopular. So whoever they pick will be in the game, though I agree Tugendhat the most centrist of the contenders
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,721

    nico679 said:

    I find Tugendhat very whiny and his new found zeal to dump the ECHR looks desperate and needy . Cleverly would seem the best candidate to appeal to more of the public.

    The risk with Tugendhat is that he tries to cosplay hard-as-nails, because he worries people think he's not, when he's really Mark Darcy.

    He should own the Mark Darcy and be himself. FWIW, I don't think he is wet/soft (and has been consistently tough on China) but he can't help the fact he looks wet/soft.

    Could he cope with the bullpit of frontline politics as the leader?
    Is he tough enough to be LOTO? Hell yes he's tough enough :wink:
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,768

    True dat.

    https://x.com/jathansadowski/status/1830487528635560183

    The BBC has been coming out with some clunkers re. AfD but no one will beat Brillo's Teutonic insights. I guess Germany is now in its biggest politcal crisis since 2017.

    Germany tonight in its biggest political crisis since late 1940s. Bigger even than UK’s current ongoing political crisis.
    — Andrew Neil (@afneil) November 20, 2017

    I don't think I follow you.
    Surely, if there is a big crisis in 2017, but a bigger crisis now, the crisis in 2017 was the biggest since the 40s, but the current crisis is also the biggest since the 40s. Isn't that what is argued here?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044
    Nigelb said:

    She's still going on about Dr Who.
    Not a sufficiently serious candidate, I suspect.

    Tomorrow, I launch my
    @renewal2030 campaign to be the next leader of our great Conservative Party.

    Join me at 11.00am, here on X!

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1830296975079842209

    It's Trumpian grievance politics: more important to be getting into arguments on social media than putting forward policies to make the country better.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    tpfkar said:

    It does look like Stride and Patel have the least momentum and the most likely 2 to go out. From my pov of wanting a sensible Tory party back in business, even if I wouldn't necessary want them in charge of anything, and being quite happy with a decent Lib Dem contingent again:

    Stride - is the one who scares me. Sensible, talks like a real person, cares about solutions not just headlines, based in the South West where the Tories are in dire trouble. Good job he'll be the first out.

    Patel - do you attack her on the bullying or the unofficial Israel lobbying? Either way, just too much baggage, and notably disloyal as the ship sank. No threat.

    Jenrick - do you attack him on painting over the mural for children, or for taking bribes for Richard Desmond's planning permission? Corruption and cruelty. He's clearly got something about him and he's had a decent campaign, but no threat due to his baggage being so acute he won't get a hearing beyond it. He hasn't begun to address either in his campaign.

    Cleverly - probably the best chance of holding the Tories together, and forging some purpose. He doesn't look like a revolutionary but strikes me as someone who could surprise on the upside and listen to the wider country. The local Tories here seem to be backing him in numbers, but he's visited multiple times over the past 18 months. Feels he'd be taken seriously in opposition seats.

    Tugendhat - clearly a serious contender, but I find him stilted and the 'One Nation' label seems quite skin deep. Not sure he is all that tough and in throwing out red meat to keep the right on board, I suspect he'd be a bit all over the place as leader. Some respect but doesn't scare me as much as the others.

    Badenoch - a risky choice but maybe the stand out candidate in the field. She would get heard, and take the fight to the Government. Problem is, she'd also keep the Tories warring and her politics is all about those fights and taking people on. Is she really going to win a battle with Doctor Who? If Labour can stay above the factional fights (big if) she could be yesterday's leader very quickly, just a reminder of the old Tory party who they threw out.

    Above all the Tories need an opposition leader with 'oomph' who can really get into Starmer and his government. I don't see any 'oomph' from Stride and Cleverly or even Badenoch really regardless of their ideology and policy
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,608
    edited September 2
    Hurrah, this makes my job easier.

    Banks to be handed new powers to block large payments for up to four days

    Lawyers warn that the added delays and red tape could cause chaos for home movers


    Banks will be handed new powers to freeze payments for up to four days under new fraud prevention rules from this autumn, The Telegraph understands.

    The rules are being introduced ahead of a new fraud regime on Oct 7, that will require banks to pay back almost all victims of “Authorised Push Payment” or “APP” fraud, which cost consumers £460m last year.

    Currently, “authorised” payments – ones that have been approved by the customer – can only be held for 24 hours while banks investigate.

    The legislation, first proposed by the Conservatives and backed by Labour in January, will be pushed through Parliament this autumn, a Treasury source confirmed.

    The legislation will give payment service providers a further 72 hours to investigate payments, but only where there are reasonable grounds to suspect fraud or dishonesty that could be out of the ordinary from a customer’s regular financial activity.

    When the legislation was first announced, the then city minister Bim Afolami said it was “another weapon in our arsenal to tackle fraud”.

    But lawyers warned that the added red tape could cause chaos for home movers, with Gareth Richards, of the Society of Licensed Conveyancers saying in May: “We believe that there are already sufficient steps in place for banks to identify unusual or suspicious activity on the accounts under their control.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/banking/banks-handed-new-power-block-large-payments-four-days/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,688
    Kemi highlighting her engineering background. Realists who can also dream.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,584
    HYUFD said:

    tpfkar said:

    It does look like Stride and Patel have the least momentum and the most likely 2 to go out. From my pov of wanting a sensible Tory party back in business, even if I wouldn't necessary want them in charge of anything, and being quite happy with a decent Lib Dem contingent again:

    Stride - is the one who scares me. Sensible, talks like a real person, cares about solutions not just headlines, based in the South West where the Tories are in dire trouble. Good job he'll be the first out.

    Patel - do you attack her on the bullying or the unofficial Israel lobbying? Either way, just too much baggage, and notably disloyal as the ship sank. No threat.

    Jenrick - do you attack him on painting over the mural for children, or for taking bribes for Richard Desmond's planning permission? Corruption and cruelty. He's clearly got something about him and he's had a decent campaign, but no threat due to his baggage being so acute he won't get a hearing beyond it. He hasn't begun to address either in his campaign.

    Cleverly - probably the best chance of holding the Tories together, and forging some purpose. He doesn't look like a revolutionary but strikes me as someone who could surprise on the upside and listen to the wider country. The local Tories here seem to be backing him in numbers, but he's visited multiple times over the past 18 months. Feels he'd be taken seriously in opposition seats.

    Tugendhat - clearly a serious contender, but I find him stilted and the 'One Nation' label seems quite skin deep. Not sure he is all that tough and in throwing out red meat to keep the right on board, I suspect he'd be a bit all over the place as leader. Some respect but doesn't scare me as much as the others.

    Badenoch - a risky choice but maybe the stand out candidate in the field. She would get heard, and take the fight to the Government. Problem is, she'd also keep the Tories warring and her politics is all about those fights and taking people on. Is she really going to win a battle with Doctor Who? If Labour can stay above the factional fights (big if) she could be yesterday's leader very quickly, just a reminder of the old Tory party who they threw out.

    Above all the Tories need an opposition leader with 'oomph' who can really get into Starmer and his government. I don't see any 'oomph' from Stride and Cleverly or even Badenoch really regardless of their ideology and policy
    Yes, Jenrick and Patel win on charisma and oomph.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,201
    MaxPB said:

    stodge said:

    The Bundnis Wagenknecht (BSW) performance is noteworthy. 16% in Thuringia, 12% in Saxony from a standing start.

    For those numbskulls who insist on throwing terms like "Left" and "Right" around, BSW are a problem. Socially conservative, anti immigration, nationalist but wanting a strong socialist State. I suspect they are much closer to parts of the AfD voter base than the leaderships of either party would want to admit. I'm not sure where AfD stands on economics/finance for example.

    While the parallels are far from obvious and exact, a BSW-style grouping emerging from out of anti-Labour Independents (who are currently more about Gaza) and supporters of a more Corbyn-style approach isn't inconceivable in the UK but unlikely currently.

    I sense a schism between the Reform leadership (Farage and Tice) and some of the voters/members. Yes, they can agree on immigration but beyond that, the Thatcherite musings of the leadership don't, I suspect, chime with the membership/voters who want public money spent in WWC areas and were enthusiastic supporters of elements of Johnson' "levelling up" agenda.

    Your description of BSW sounds depressingly like the Nazi party in the 1930s. Let's hope that German people aren't seduced by such thinking.
    From listening to their program, that's not who they are.

    More back-to-the-past-socialism. Think the people who want to have the Attlee Government, again.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,688
    Claire Coutinho is for Kemi.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,721
    On Ofsted, I'm saddened that they ever went with Office for Standards in Education when the had the option of far more fun abbreviations:

    Off'ed (describing the capability/judgement of inspectors)
    Offschool
    Offsecs (for secondary education)
    OfCourse (for courses in general)

    Or, we could simply combine all the various Offices overseeing various sectors into one, cut red tape and admin and welcome in the Offal
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,688
    Looking like a strong pitch from Kemi.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,775
    F1: good start by Colapinto, incidentally. Rose from 18th to 12th, less than a pit stop off Albon's time.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    Fishing said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    On topic, the time we become a Republic is when a truly useless heir to the throne takes over. It's a lottery, and only a matter of time before another Prince Andrew is first born. It isn't 1688 where we import a distant relative from the Netherlands.

    A Monarchy kept in power via apathy and doing nothing remotely interesting is inherently an unstable genetic losing bet.

    Rubbish. Our "unstable" Monarchy has lasted for more than 350 years without interruption while the "stable" French have had, just since 1789, 16 constitutions including five republics, four monarchies and a dictatorship. It has survived mad kings, lost wars, political crises, domestic scandals and even Megan Markle and is still about the most popular national institution we have.
    You never really know, but William seems pretty stable to me, and is likely to be around for another 40 or so years. Monarchy ain't going nowhere. And least not in most of ours lifetime, for sure.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    HYUFD said:

    tpfkar said:

    It does look like Stride and Patel have the least momentum and the most likely 2 to go out. From my pov of wanting a sensible Tory party back in business, even if I wouldn't necessary want them in charge of anything, and being quite happy with a decent Lib Dem contingent again:

    Stride - is the one who scares me. Sensible, talks like a real person, cares about solutions not just headlines, based in the South West where the Tories are in dire trouble. Good job he'll be the first out.

    Patel - do you attack her on the bullying or the unofficial Israel lobbying? Either way, just too much baggage, and notably disloyal as the ship sank. No threat.

    Jenrick - do you attack him on painting over the mural for children, or for taking bribes for Richard Desmond's planning permission? Corruption and cruelty. He's clearly got something about him and he's had a decent campaign, but no threat due to his baggage being so acute he won't get a hearing beyond it. He hasn't begun to address either in his campaign.

    Cleverly - probably the best chance of holding the Tories together, and forging some purpose. He doesn't look like a revolutionary but strikes me as someone who could surprise on the upside and listen to the wider country. The local Tories here seem to be backing him in numbers, but he's visited multiple times over the past 18 months. Feels he'd be taken seriously in opposition seats.

    Tugendhat - clearly a serious contender, but I find him stilted and the 'One Nation' label seems quite skin deep. Not sure he is all that tough and in throwing out red meat to keep the right on board, I suspect he'd be a bit all over the place as leader. Some respect but doesn't scare me as much as the others.

    Badenoch - a risky choice but maybe the stand out candidate in the field. She would get heard, and take the fight to the Government. Problem is, she'd also keep the Tories warring and her politics is all about those fights and taking people on. Is she really going to win a battle with Doctor Who? If Labour can stay above the factional fights (big if) she could be yesterday's leader very quickly, just a reminder of the old Tory party who they threw out.

    Above all the Tories need an opposition leader with 'oomph' who can really get into Starmer and his government. I don't see any 'oomph' from Stride and Cleverly or even Badenoch really regardless of their ideology and policy
    Badenoch does have oomph. It might not be election winning oomph, but she'd probably give them some grief at PMQs. Jenrick seems to have a bit of oomph.

    Badenoch does seem to be a very American MAGA-style politician though. It's a mistake I think, one made by both the outer stretches of the right and left, to become so fixated on and embedded in US culture war discourse that sound like they're talking a foreign language.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,201
    Selebian said:

    On Ofsted, I'm saddened that they ever went with Office for Standards in Education when the had the option of far more fun abbreviations:

    Off'ed (describing the capability/judgement of inspectors)
    Offschool
    Offsecs (for secondary education)
    OfCourse (for courses in general)

    Or, we could simply combine all the various Offices overseeing various sectors into one, cut red tape and admin and welcome in the Offal

    Planned Integration of School Standards Office

    We are PissOff
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    tpfkar said:

    It does look like Stride and Patel have the least momentum and the most likely 2 to go out. From my pov of wanting a sensible Tory party back in business, even if I wouldn't necessary want them in charge of anything, and being quite happy with a decent Lib Dem contingent again:

    Stride - is the one who scares me. Sensible, talks like a real person, cares about solutions not just headlines, based in the South West where the Tories are in dire trouble. Good job he'll be the first out.

    Patel - do you attack her on the bullying or the unofficial Israel lobbying? Either way, just too much baggage, and notably disloyal as the ship sank. No threat.

    Jenrick - do you attack him on painting over the mural for children, or for taking bribes for Richard Desmond's planning permission? Corruption and cruelty. He's clearly got something about him and he's had a decent campaign, but no threat due to his baggage being so acute he won't get a hearing beyond it. He hasn't begun to address either in his campaign.

    Cleverly - probably the best chance of holding the Tories together, and forging some purpose. He doesn't look like a revolutionary but strikes me as someone who could surprise on the upside and listen to the wider country. The local Tories here seem to be backing him in numbers, but he's visited multiple times over the past 18 months. Feels he'd be taken seriously in opposition seats.

    Tugendhat - clearly a serious contender, but I find him stilted and the 'One Nation' label seems quite skin deep. Not sure he is all that tough and in throwing out red meat to keep the right on board, I suspect he'd be a bit all over the place as leader. Some respect but doesn't scare me as much as the others.

    Badenoch - a risky choice but maybe the stand out candidate in the field. She would get heard, and take the fight to the Government. Problem is, she'd also keep the Tories warring and her politics is all about those fights and taking people on. Is she really going to win a battle with Doctor Who? If Labour can stay above the factional fights (big if) she could be yesterday's leader very quickly, just a reminder of the old Tory party who they threw out.

    Above all the Tories need an opposition leader with 'oomph' who can really get into Starmer and his government. I don't see any 'oomph' from Stride and Cleverly or even Badenoch really regardless of their ideology and policy
    Badenoch does have oomph. It might not be election winning oomph, but she'd probably give them some grief at PMQs. Jenrick seems to have a bit of oomph.

    Badenoch does seem to be a very American MAGA-style politician though. It's a mistake I think, one made by both the outer stretches of the right and left, to become so fixated on and embedded in US culture war discourse that sound like they're talking a foreign language.
    Badenoch has a bit of oomph but not as much as Patel who is also sharper. If you want a hard right leader of the 2 Priti would be better in my view
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Patel: dim
    Badenoch: cowardly
    Tug: weird
    Cleverly: okay
    Stride: who?
    Jenrick: lol
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,688
    Have to say this is a very good performance from Badenoch.

    Very strong on answering the questions with answers that fit her main pitch of ground up renewal and rewiring and seem to have been thought through.
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