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Could the economy win it for Kamala Harris? – politicalbetting.com

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited August 27

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nobody has much of a clue what Harris policies are - she's Starmer 2.0

    Her policy is not having dementia, and not having instigated an attempted coup.

    I'm not sure she needs to have much beyond that to win my support.
    She was quite happy to support a guy with dementia. Lets hope she can do riot control better than Nancy Pelosi
    How do you know she supported him? How do you know it wasn't her that put the knife in?
    Well I assume for the 3.5 years she sat happily by his side and said all was well shewas good. with it, If however you are implying she;s a backstabbing Lady Macbeth type, thats probably not going to be a good outcome for the USA.
    Oh come on, dementia is not an on-off switch, as you surely must know.

    When he was elected three and a half years ago, he was clearly able to manage the rigors of a campaign. He wasn't - I think you'll agree - demented.

    Times change, and people with cognitive decline have good days and bad days. He has rightly taken the decision to stand down.

    But what you seem to be suggesting is that the best thing for America (not the Democrats, but America), was for the VP to cause a constitutional crisis by publicly claiming the President was unable to fulfil his duties, and demanding the invocation of the 25th Amendment.

    Yeah, like that was going to happen, irrespective of which party was in power, and absent an "event".
    He was forced to stand down and if he was not up to the job the VP should have moved him out. A Prez going down the Diane Finkelstein route is not a good idea, The thing about constitutional crises is the system can deal with them.

    On the other hand since Trumpty Dumpty has similar features we can all rejoice he has more good days and be as safe as we were with Joe.
    One of the big worries with Trump - apart from the crimes, assaults, subversion of justice, violent rhetoric and total incompetence - is in the last two months he seems to have stopped having any good days.
    I rather thought you would have been delighted on the day he got shot - a good day in your books.
    He wasn't exactly shot, was he? The assassin grazed his ear.

    To hear some of his supporters talk, you'd think he had a miraculous survival after a Nelson-style severing of the spinal column.

    It was the person behind him got shot.
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nobody has much of a clue what Harris policies are - she's Starmer 2.0

    Her policy is not having dementia, and not having instigated an attempted coup.

    I'm not sure she needs to have much beyond that to win my support.
    She was quite happy to support a guy with dementia. Lets hope she can do riot control better than Nancy Pelosi
    How do you know she supported him? How do you know it wasn't her that put the knife in?
    Well I assume for the 3.5 years she sat happily by his side and said all was well shewas good. with it, If however you are implying she;s a backstabbing Lady Macbeth type, thats probably not going to be a good outcome for the USA.
    Oh come on, dementia is not an on-off switch, as you surely must know.

    When he was elected three and a half years ago, he was clearly able to manage the rigors of a campaign. He wasn't - I think you'll agree - demented.

    Times change, and people with cognitive decline have good days and bad days. He has rightly taken the decision to stand down.

    But what you seem to be suggesting is that the best thing for America (not the Democrats, but America), was for the VP to cause a constitutional crisis by publicly claiming the President was unable to fulfil his duties, and demanding the invocation of the 25th Amendment.

    Yeah, like that was going to happen, irrespective of which party was in power, and absent an "event".
    He was forced to stand down and if he was not up to the job the VP should have moved him out. A Prez going down the Diane Finkelstein route is not a good idea, The thing about constitutional crises is the system can deal with them.

    On the other hand since Trumpty Dumpty has similar features we can all rejoice he has more good days and be as safe as we were with Joe.
    One of the big worries with Trump - apart from the crimes, assaults, subversion of justice, violent rhetoric and total incompetence - is in the last two months he seems to have stopped having any good days.
    I rather thought you would have been delighted on the day he got shot - a good day in your books.
    He wasn't exactly shot, was he? The assassin grazed his ear.

    To hear some of his supporters talk, you'd think he had a miraculous survival after a Nelson-style severing of the spinal column.

    It was the person behind him got shot.
    So what was a good day for Trump was a bad day for you.
    It was a very bad day for the person sitting behind Trump, and his grieving family.

    It was not a good day for disaffected Republican Mr Crooks.

    It was a less than brilliant day for Joe Biden as it led to the pressure on him to withdraw becoming irresistible.

    It was a suboptimal day for the Secret Service, who looked like a bunch of idiots.

    It does not seem to have been a great day for Mr Trump, who ever since then has been becoming more and more openly confused.

    For me? It was a good day as I was enjoying a cycling holiday in Scotland and the weather was nice. Politically, it was meh. I expected him to lose before, and I expected him to lose afterwards. And I still do.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nobody has much of a clue what Harris policies are - she's Starmer 2.0

    Her policy is not having dementia, and not having instigated an attempted coup.

    I'm not sure she needs to have much beyond that to win my support.
    She was quite happy to support a guy with dementia. Lets hope she can do riot control better than Nancy Pelosi
    How do you know she supported him? How do you know it wasn't her that put the knife in?
    Well I assume for the 3.5 years she sat happily by his side and said all was well shewas good. with it, If however you are implying she;s a backstabbing Lady Macbeth type, thats probably not going to be a good outcome for the USA.
    Oh come on, dementia is not an on-off switch, as you surely must know.

    When he was elected three and a half years ago, he was clearly able to manage the rigors of a campaign. He wasn't - I think you'll agree - demented.

    Times change, and people with cognitive decline have good days and bad days. He has rightly taken the decision to stand down.

    But what you seem to be suggesting is that the best thing for America (not the Democrats, but America), was for the VP to cause a constitutional crisis by publicly claiming the President was unable to fulfil his duties, and demanding the invocation of the 25th Amendment.

    Yeah, like that was going to happen, irrespective of which party was in power, and absent an "event".
    He was forced to stand down and if he was not up to the job the VP should have moved him out. A Prez going down the Diane Finkelstein route is not a good idea, The thing about constitutional crises is the system can deal with them.

    On the other hand since Trumpty Dumpty has similar features we can all rejoice he has more good days and be as safe as we were with Joe.
    But you don't actually know when - if at all - he became incapable of doing his job. You threw out three and a half years ago, even though that is clearly not the case.

    The voters selected Joe Biden, knowing his age. The VP doesn't get to precipitate constitutional crises just on the basis that @Alanbrooke wants one.
    Well nor do you. It could have been when he was a candidate. However on PB there have been enough questions for JBs fitness for office and the standard response for the Dem faction has been to try and kill the debate. Now it tuns out the questions were more than justified and the debayte suppressers just look tits.
    Wait: so the PB commentariat should be enough to overturn democratically elected leaders?

    The hurdle for evicting our democratically elected representatives is rightly very high.
    Yeah I can see you want to move away from whether Biden was fit for office.

    Probably a wise move.
    I'm trying to understand your point of view. Do you think voters wishes for who should be President should be casually cast aside?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    .
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    RealClearPolitics still has Trump ahead in Pennsylvania by 0.2%.

    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/pennsylvania/trump-vs-harris

    Did you write " Trump ahead in Pennsylvania by 0.2%"? Desperation of desperations!

    I suspect if it were the other way around we could call it a tie. MoE and all that?

    We'll have to wait for a reasonable amount of post-convention polling, but it does seem, for now at least, that Harris hasn't had the same sort of bounce in PA that she's seen in other swing states.

    One thing that's certain is that the advertising markets in state will make a LOT of money this autumn.
    Vance is practically planning to live there. Whether that will help Trump or not may be a suitable subject for a discussion.
    Have they warned all the donut stores ?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    RealClearPolitics still has Trump ahead in Pennsylvania by 0.2%.

    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/pennsylvania/trump-vs-harris

    They seem to ignore polls that indicate otherwise and, of course, they use Rasmussen. 538 has Harris 1.6% ahead in Pennsylvania: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/pennsylvania/. On their average she has had a small but consistent lead in the State for

    I still worry that Harris might regret not choosing Shapiro. Pennsylvania is the keystone state for this election. If Harris wins it, she wins. If she loses it it is going to be incredibly close.
    She might win even without Pennsylvania if she wins Michigan and Wisconsin and Nebraska 02, which Walz will help her with and Nevada which even Hillary won and one of NC or Georgia which the black vote will help her with (and Kennedy Jr is staying on the ballot in NC unlike Pennsylvania). Obama of course won NC in 2008.

    If Trump won Arizona and Georgia and Pennsylvania as well as the states he won in 2020 though Harris wins by just 273 to 265 votes, the closest EC margin since 2000 when Bush beat Gore by 271 to 266

    https://www.270towin.com/
    Yes, I agree. There are routes to 270 for Harris without Pennsylvania although they are far from easy. It is very hard to see any realistic routes to 270 for Trump without Pennsylvania though.

    One of the challenges for Trump is states he thought were nailed down coming into play. North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona and Nevada all looked pretty solid for him a month ago but are now in the toss up zone. Putting the kind of money he wants into Pennsylvania will become more difficult the more he has to play defence elsewhere.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,316
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nobody has much of a clue what Harris policies are - she's Starmer 2.0

    Her policy is not having dementia, and not having instigated an attempted coup.

    I'm not sure she needs to have much beyond that to win my support.
    She was quite happy to support a guy with dementia. Lets hope she can do riot control better than Nancy Pelosi
    How do you know she supported him? How do you know it wasn't her that put the knife in?
    Well I assume for the 3.5 years she sat happily by his side and said all was well shewas good. with it, If however you are implying she;s a backstabbing Lady Macbeth type, thats probably not going to be a good outcome for the USA.
    Oh come on, dementia is not an on-off switch, as you surely must know.

    When he was elected three and a half years ago, he was clearly able to manage the rigors of a campaign. He wasn't - I think you'll agree - demented.

    Times change, and people with cognitive decline have good days and bad days. He has rightly taken the decision to stand down.

    But what you seem to be suggesting is that the best thing for America (not the Democrats, but America), was for the VP to cause a constitutional crisis by publicly claiming the President was unable to fulfil his duties, and demanding the invocation of the 25th Amendment.

    Yeah, like that was going to happen, irrespective of which party was in power, and absent an "event".
    He was forced to stand down and if he was not up to the job the VP should have moved him out. A Prez going down the Diane Finkelstein route is not a good idea, The thing about constitutional crises is the system can deal with them.

    On the other hand since Trumpty Dumpty has similar features we can all rejoice he has more good days and be as safe as we were with Joe.
    But you don't actually know when - if at all - he became incapable of doing his job. You threw out three and a half years ago, even though that is clearly not the case.

    The voters selected Joe Biden, knowing his age. The VP doesn't get to precipitate constitutional crises just on the basis that @Alanbrooke wants one.
    Well nor do you. It could have been when he was a candidate. However on PB there have been enough questions for JBs fitness for office and the standard response for the Dem faction has been to try and kill the debate. Now it tuns out the questions were more than justified and the debayte suppressers just look tits.
    Wait: so the PB commentariat should be enough to overturn democratically elected leaders?

    The hurdle for evicting our democratically elected representatives is rightly very high.
    Yeah I can see you want to move away from whether Biden was fit for office.

    Probably a wise move.
    I'm trying to understand your point of view. Do you think voters wishes for who should be President should be casually cast aside?
    If the candidate is no longer capable of doing the job yes. In democratic systems there are a variety of stopgaps which allow the system to function.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    Nigelb said:

    .

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    RealClearPolitics still has Trump ahead in Pennsylvania by 0.2%.

    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/pennsylvania/trump-vs-harris

    Did you write " Trump ahead in Pennsylvania by 0.2%"? Desperation of desperations!

    I suspect if it were the other way around we could call it a tie. MoE and all that?

    We'll have to wait for a reasonable amount of post-convention polling, but it does seem, for now at least, that Harris hasn't had the same sort of bounce in PA that she's seen in other swing states.

    One thing that's certain is that the advertising markets in state will make a LOT of money this autumn.
    Vance is practically planning to live there. Whether that will help Trump or not may be a suitable subject for a discussion.
    Have they warned all the donut stores ?
    Just as long as he doesn't go sofa surfing.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    This made me LOL; a note found in a column in the National Gallery:

    https://x.com/oldenoughtosay/status/1828430525138436527
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 864
    Andy_JS said:

    Since Cameron no PMs have lasted in office longer than about 3 years. It'll be interesting to see if Starmer can do any better.

    What odds would you be offering that he can do >3 years?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Chortle.

    SNP ministers are being forced to consider axing some of Scotland’s “freebies” such as prescriptions and university tuition to plug a huge black hole in the public finances caused by their spending choices.

    A leaked briefing by the head of Scotland’s NHS disclosed that civil servants were drawing up options for ministers to cut, including “some of the universal benefits.”

    Caroline Lamb, chief executive of NHS Scotland and the director-general for health and social care, said her department alone had a £1.1 billion spending “gap”.

    SNP ministers attempted to blame impending spending cuts by the new Labour Government for the shortfall but their claims were demolished by the Scottish Fiscal Commission (SFC), their official economic forecasters.

    The SFC said “much of the pressure comes from the Scottish Government’s own decisions”, particularly public sector pay offers that have greatly exceeded ministers’ budgets.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/27/snp-axe-scottish-freebies-black-hole-spending/

    It really hurts me to come to the support of the Scottish Government but these pay offers are pretty similar to what is happening in England as a way of bringing the ongoing industrial unrest in the public sector for the last 2 years to some sort of conclusion.

    The failure to implement pay bodies recommendations was not a sustainable policy and even the Tories would have had to recognise this had they won the election. Its another way that the underlying fiscal situation was even worse than it appeared.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    O/T

    I still find it cringeworthy watching this, even though it's from the year 2000. Tony Blair getting slow handclapped at the Women's Insitute.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0HgJIkSIXY
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    darkage said:

    Rory Stewart had a brilliant insight on Starmer. He suggested that he had realised people didn't want to deal with difficult questions and so the way to win an election, is by running a campaign that avoids difficult questions. What I think we see now is that, when in power, the difficult questions are unavoidable.

    OK as far as it goes. You win elections in a particular way, based on the evidence of 1992 and 2017 elections etc, and those voting Labour thoughtfully knew the game. What is impossible to believe is that a former DPP doesn't know that in actual real life, when you are actually in charge, you have to tell it how it is and everyone knows if you are not answering the questions.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069

    Andy_JS said:

    Since Cameron no PMs have lasted in office longer than about 3 years. It'll be interesting to see if Starmer can do any better.

    What odds would you be offering that he can do >3 years?
    OK, what stops him?

    Death or extreme illness, I suppose.

    A career-ending scandal of the sort that broke Johnson. Possible, but unlikely.

    A Trussesque collective crackup. Hard to imagine with someone so boring.

    So that leaves an internal.party coup. Which is difficult in Labour- they don't have the equivalent of Graham Brady's postbox.

    Politics is about to get boring again, and that includes this government and PM limping on until 2028/9. Because that's the system working normally. The last decade has been the aberration.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    IanB2 said:

    The longest steel span in the western hemisphere, and third highest bridge in the US. Plus one of National Geographic's twenty coolest places to visit in 2024, apparently - although not today as it is super hot already and a heatwave is arriving...

    Very beautiful, but how are you finding Appalachia generally? I like the idea of small town America, but are you finding more charming little towns with recognisable main streets, enticing cafes and independently owned stores - or more towns which are all edge of town parking lots and no recognisable downtown? Is there anywhere, in short, you can think life there might be quite pleasant?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171

    Andy_JS said:

    Since Cameron no PMs have lasted in office longer than about 3 years. It'll be interesting to see if Starmer can do any better.

    What odds would you be offering that he can do >3 years?
    About 75%, but obviously 25% is a non-trivial chance of "events dear boy events" happening.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,360
    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:

    RealClearPolitics still has Trump ahead in Pennsylvania by 0.2%.

    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/pennsylvania/trump-vs-harris

    For some reason they are not reporting:

    Redfield 15 Aug Harris +2
    Bullfinch 11 Aug Harris +4
    Franklin 11 Aug Harris +3

    but do report Bloomberg 28 July Trump +4

    538 has Harris ahead by 1.6% in Pennsylvania

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/pennsylvania/

    BetfaIr has Harris as favourite (just) at 1.94 in Pennsylvania
    Even Trump has conceded Harris will likely get a significant bump after the Democratic Convention. Not in the polling announced yet.

    Those Terrible Twos Temper Tantrums are going to be spectacular...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,360
    edited August 27
    Nigelb said:

    .

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    RealClearPolitics still has Trump ahead in Pennsylvania by 0.2%.

    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/pennsylvania/trump-vs-harris

    Did you write " Trump ahead in Pennsylvania by 0.2%"? Desperation of desperations!

    I suspect if it were the other way around we could call it a tie. MoE and all that?

    We'll have to wait for a reasonable amount of post-convention polling, but it does seem, for now at least, that Harris hasn't had the same sort of bounce in PA that she's seen in other swing states.

    One thing that's certain is that the advertising markets in state will make a LOT of money this autumn.
    Vance is practically planning to live there. Whether that will help Trump or not may be a suitable subject for a discussion.
    Have they warned all the donut stores ?
    I'm having terrible thoughts about sofa/ring donut combos....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,360
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    RealClearPolitics still has Trump ahead in Pennsylvania by 0.2%.

    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/pennsylvania/trump-vs-harris

    Did you write " Trump ahead in Pennsylvania by 0.2%"? Desperation of desperations!

    I suspect if it were the other way around we could call it a tie. MoE and all that?

    We'll have to wait for a reasonable amount of post-convention polling, but it does seem, for now at least, that Harris hasn't had the same sort of bounce in PA that she's seen in other swing states.

    One thing that's certain is that the advertising markets in state will make a LOT of money this autumn.
    Vance is practically planning to live there. Whether that will help Trump or not may be a suitable subject for a discussion.
    "Vance is practically planning to live there."

    Alternatively.... "Vance is practically prohibited from going anywhere else there might be voters".
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,360

    Andy_JS said:

    Since Cameron no PMs have lasted in office longer than about 3 years. It'll be interesting to see if Starmer can do any better.

    What odds would you be offering that he can do >3 years?
    OK, what stops him?

    Death or extreme illness, I suppose.

    A career-ending scandal of the sort that broke Johnson. Possible, but unlikely.

    A Trussesque collective crackup. Hard to imagine with someone so boring.

    So that leaves an internal.party coup. Which is difficult in Labour- they don't have the equivalent of Graham Brady's postbox.

    Politics is about to get boring again, and that includes this government and PM limping on until 2028/9. Because that's the system working normally. The last decade has been the aberration.
    The possibility of a late-mid life crisis.

    "What the FUCK am I doing???"

    He decides he just wants to spend his days making Lego spaceships.

    But in all likelihood we have Starmer until May 2029.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    "Wheelchair-bound driver, 96, becomes oldest woman in Britain to admit death by dangerous driving after she killed pensioner, 76, and injured pedestrian, 80, with her Vauxhall Corsa"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13784177/Wheelchair-bound-driver-96-oldest-woman-Britain-admit-death-dangerous-driving.html
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    Andy_JS said:

    Since Cameron no PMs have lasted in office longer than about 3 years. It'll be interesting to see if Starmer can do any better.

    What odds would you be offering that he can do >3 years?
    OK, what stops him?

    Death or extreme illness, I suppose.

    A career-ending scandal of the sort that broke Johnson. Possible, but unlikely.

    A Trussesque collective crackup. Hard to imagine with someone so boring.

    So that leaves an internal.party coup. Which is difficult in Labour- they don't have the equivalent of Graham Brady's postbox.

    Politics is about to get boring again, and that includes this government and PM limping on until 2028/9. Because that's the system working normally. The last decade has been the aberration.
    The possibility of a late-mid life crisis.

    "What the FUCK am I doing???"

    He decides he just wants to spend his days making Lego spaceships.

    But in all likelihood we have Starmer until May 2029.
    Perhaps Boris could school him in making model buses from wooden wine cases.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    Nobody has much of a clue what Harris policies are - she's Starmer 2.0

    So, she'll win by a huge margin? Phew!
    She may well do. And then she will drown in a poonami of her own making.
    Perhaps she could purloin some of Trump's adult diapers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited August 27

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    RealClearPolitics still has Trump ahead in Pennsylvania by 0.2%.

    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/pennsylvania/trump-vs-harris

    Did you write " Trump ahead in Pennsylvania by 0.2%"? Desperation of desperations!

    I suspect if it were the other way around we could call it a tie. MoE and all that?

    We'll have to wait for a reasonable amount of post-convention polling, but it does seem, for now at least, that Harris hasn't had the same sort of bounce in PA that she's seen in other swing states.

    One thing that's certain is that the advertising markets in state will make a LOT of money this autumn.
    Vance is practically planning to live there. Whether that will help Trump or not may be a suitable subject for a discussion.
    "Vance is practically planning to live there."

    Alternatively.... "Vance is practically prohibited from going anywhere else there might be voters".
    It's instructive to note that Trump's lead in Ohio seems to be falling. And at the moment, it looks as though that's the *only* major race the Republicans are on course to win in Ohio. Sherrod Brown seems to have a strong lead in the Senate race.

    So what if Vance is pinned to his home state to try and win that? Does he flit back and forth to Penn doing a double?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    I still find it cringeworthy watching this, even though it's from the year 2000. Tony Blair getting slow handclapped at the Women's Insitute.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0HgJIkSIXY

    Agreed, he'll never get a second term.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    I agree with him about the pointlessness of changing to a hemicycle, it's one of those ideas which is floated as leading to some grand change which is just nonsense, but his final response is definitely only one an ex-MP would make.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873

    Chortle.

    SNP ministers are being forced to consider axing some of Scotland’s “freebies” such as prescriptions and university tuition to plug a huge black hole in the public finances caused by their spending choices.

    A leaked briefing by the head of Scotland’s NHS disclosed that civil servants were drawing up options for ministers to cut, including “some of the universal benefits.”

    Caroline Lamb, chief executive of NHS Scotland and the director-general for health and social care, said her department alone had a £1.1 billion spending “gap”.

    SNP ministers attempted to blame impending spending cuts by the new Labour Government for the shortfall but their claims were demolished by the Scottish Fiscal Commission (SFC), their official economic forecasters.

    The SFC said “much of the pressure comes from the Scottish Government’s own decisions”, particularly public sector pay offers that have greatly exceeded ministers’ budgets.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/27/snp-axe-scottish-freebies-black-hole-spending/

    Not free after all I guess.

    Sounds politically disastrous to enact though, even if they have limited choices available.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    I still find it cringeworthy watching this, even though it's from the year 2000. Tony Blair getting slow handclapped at the Women's Insitute.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0HgJIkSIXY

    Agreed, he'll never get a second term.
    See also: the first couple of years of Thatcher.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    kle4 said:

    Chortle.

    SNP ministers are being forced to consider axing some of Scotland’s “freebies” such as prescriptions and university tuition to plug a huge black hole in the public finances caused by their spending choices.

    A leaked briefing by the head of Scotland’s NHS disclosed that civil servants were drawing up options for ministers to cut, including “some of the universal benefits.”

    Caroline Lamb, chief executive of NHS Scotland and the director-general for health and social care, said her department alone had a £1.1 billion spending “gap”.

    SNP ministers attempted to blame impending spending cuts by the new Labour Government for the shortfall but their claims were demolished by the Scottish Fiscal Commission (SFC), their official economic forecasters.

    The SFC said “much of the pressure comes from the Scottish Government’s own decisions”, particularly public sector pay offers that have greatly exceeded ministers’ budgets.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/27/snp-axe-scottish-freebies-black-hole-spending/

    Not free after all I guess.

    Sounds politically disastrous to enact though, even if they have limited choices available.
    Has Holyrood maxed out on its devolved tax raising powers? That would seem the first port of call; asking for a friend living in Scotland.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Andy_JS said:

    Since Cameron no PMs have lasted in office longer than about 3 years. It'll be interesting to see if Starmer can do any better.

    No Austrialian PM has managed to get to 4 years since 2007. Granted they have elections every three years, but periods of power of 6 years and 9 years for each party make that still a surprise.

    Albanese is at 2 years and 95 days, so had better watch out for knives in the back.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,772
    edited August 27
    I think Starmer will lead Labour into 2029 come what may (well, save a voluntary exit or illness). Not only do the party have a bit of an aversion to forcing leaders out (though given the bonkers precedents now set by the Tories, who knows) but also a first term PM has I think generally earned the right to fight election number 2 by delivering the majority in the first place (this would have been true for Johnson if he hadn’t self-imploded).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873

    I think Starmer will lead Labour into 2029 come what may (well, save a voluntary exit or illness). Not only do the party have a bit of a aversion to forcing leaders out (though given the bonkers precedents now set by the Tories, who knows) but also a first term PM has I think generally earned the right to fight election number 2 by delivering the majority in the first place (this would have been true for Johnson if he hadn’t self-imploded).

    For all the rage at the 'traitors' who forced Boris out - and regardless of whether it was a mistake - the fact he was able to be forced out at all is extremely telling about just how much he was imposing on the MPs.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,125
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    RealClearPolitics still has Trump ahead in Pennsylvania by 0.2%.

    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/pennsylvania/trump-vs-harris

    They seem to ignore polls that indicate otherwise and, of course, they use Rasmussen. 538 has Harris 1.6% ahead in Pennsylvania: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/pennsylvania/. On their average she has had a small but consistent lead in the State for

    I still worry that Harris might regret not choosing Shapiro. Pennsylvania is the keystone state for this election. If Harris wins it, she wins. If she loses it it is going to be incredibly close.
    She might win even without Pennsylvania if she wins Michigan and Wisconsin and Nebraska 02, which Walz will help her with and Nevada which even Hillary won and one of NC or Georgia which the black vote will help her with (and Kennedy Jr is staying on the ballot in NC unlike Pennsylvania). Obama of course won NC in 2008.

    If Trump won Arizona and Georgia and Pennsylvania as well as the states he won in 2020 though Harris wins by just 273 to 265 votes, the closest EC margin since 2000 when Bush beat Gore by 271 to 266

    https://www.270towin.com/
    Yes, I agree. There are routes to 270 for Harris without Pennsylvania although they are far from easy. It is very hard to see any realistic routes to 270 for Trump without Pennsylvania though.

    One of the challenges for Trump is states he thought were nailed down coming into play. North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona and Nevada all looked pretty solid for him a month ago but are now in the toss up zone. Putting the kind of money he wants into Pennsylvania will become more difficult the more he has to play defence elsewhere.
    Assuming a close contest, Trump can win by picking up Georgia, Arizona, Nevada and one of Michigan or Wisconsin. How's that any less "realistic" than Harris losing Pennsylvania Georgia and Arizona but picking up North Carolina?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    Chortle.

    SNP ministers are being forced to consider axing some of Scotland’s “freebies” such as prescriptions and university tuition to plug a huge black hole in the public finances caused by their spending choices.

    A leaked briefing by the head of Scotland’s NHS disclosed that civil servants were drawing up options for ministers to cut, including “some of the universal benefits.”

    Caroline Lamb, chief executive of NHS Scotland and the director-general for health and social care, said her department alone had a £1.1 billion spending “gap”.

    SNP ministers attempted to blame impending spending cuts by the new Labour Government for the shortfall but their claims were demolished by the Scottish Fiscal Commission (SFC), their official economic forecasters.

    The SFC said “much of the pressure comes from the Scottish Government’s own decisions”, particularly public sector pay offers that have greatly exceeded ministers’ budgets.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/27/snp-axe-scottish-freebies-black-hole-spending/

    Not free after all I guess.

    Sounds politically disastrous to enact though, even if they have limited choices available.
    Has Holyrood maxed out on its devolved tax raising powers? That would seem the first port of call; asking for a friend living in Scotland.
    The taxes it can increase are already at and beyond pip squeaking point. Between £100,000 and £126,000 workers are taxed at 63%...
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691

    I think Starmer will lead Labour into 2029 come what may (well, save a voluntary exit or illness). Not only do the party have a bit of an aversion to forcing leaders out (though given the bonkers precedents now set by the Tories, who knows) but also a first term PM has I think generally earned the right to fight election number 2 by delivering the majority in the first place (this would have been true for Johnson if he hadn’t self-imploded).

    It'd be nice if BF offered a market on Starmer exit date. (Although these very long term (one presumes) markets are far less fun now given you can get decent interest on your capital)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    kle4 said:

    I agree with him about the pointlessness of changing to a hemicycle, it's one of those ideas which is floated as leading to some grand change which is just nonsense, but his final response is definitely only one an ex-MP would make.

    Very odd, has he forgotten Mr Heseltine and the Mace?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,125
    Trump maybe has to decide whether to attack Harris as continuity Biden, or as the second coming of Lenin. Presumably the swing voters he needs have noticed that Biden isn't running a communist regime. Trump's probably too thick to understand this point though.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    Capping the rate of food inflation. Lol, was this policy written by a 3 year old?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    Very saddened by the death of one of the WWE/WCW legends.

    Sid Vicious has departed. He has many many fine moments. Breaking his leg and the Arn Anderson stabbing. Also this.

    https://x.com/yordanforhof44/status/1828160475508678846?s=61
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    edited August 27
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    I agree with him about the pointlessness of changing to a hemicycle, it's one of those ideas which is floated as leading to some grand change which is just nonsense, but his final response is definitely only one an ex-MP would make.

    Very odd, has he forgotten Mr Heseltine and the Mace?
    Less oddly I walked past Lord Heseltine on Wigmore St the other day - he looks rather frail. No mace swinging ahead for him I fear.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    kamski said:

    Trump maybe has to decide whether to attack Harris as continuity Biden, or as the second coming of Lenin. Presumably the swing voters he needs have noticed that Biden isn't running a communist regime. Trump's probably too thick to understand this point though.

    Also note that it appears Donald Trump is laying the groundwork for chickening out of his scheduled debate with Kamala Harris.

    Surprise, surprise!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Why did the pollster only publish this today ?
    It's likely to be a week or so before we get any kind of post convention consensus.

    2024 Arizona GE:

    Trump 47% (+3)
    Harris 44%
    .
    Trump 44% (+1)
    Harris 43%
    Kennedy 5%
    West 1%
    Stein 1%

    .@NoblePredictive, 1,003 RV, 8/12-16
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Nigelb said:

    Why did the pollster only publish this today ?
    It's likely to be a week or so before we get any kind of post convention consensus.

    2024 Arizona GE:

    Trump 47% (+3)
    Harris 44%
    .
    Trump 44% (+1)
    Harris 43%
    Kennedy 5%
    West 1%
    Stein 1%

    .@NoblePredictive, 1,003 RV, 8/12-16

    These might be internal polling, released after they don't matter ?
    This one's five days old.
    Texas is interesting.

    #NEW @ppppolls Senate Polls:

    TEXAS
    Cruz (R-Inc) 47% (+2)
    Allred (D) 45%
    .
    FLORIDA
    Scott (R) 48% (+3)
    Mucarsel-Powell (D) 45%

    Clean and Prosperous America PAC (D), LV, 8/21-22
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    Nigelb said:

    Why did the pollster only publish this today ?
    It's likely to be a week or so before we get any kind of post convention consensus.

    2024 Arizona GE:

    Trump 47% (+3)
    Harris 44%
    .
    Trump 44% (+1)
    Harris 43%
    Kennedy 5%
    West 1%
    Stein 1%

    .@NoblePredictive, 1,003 RV, 8/12-16

    US polling is a bizarre game - it's not polling as we know it, and as a game I have no idea about the moves.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    2024 North Carolina Governor GE:

    Josh Stein (D) 54% (+8)
    Mark Robinson (R) 46%

    .
    @ActiVoteUS, 400 LV, 7/26-8/26

    https://x.com/Politics_Polls/status/1828402081147035683
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    kamski said:

    Trump maybe has to decide whether to attack Harris as continuity Biden, or as the second coming of Lenin. Presumably the swing voters he needs have noticed that Biden isn't running a communist regime. Trump's probably too thick to understand this point though.

    Also note that it appears Donald Trump is laying the groundwork for chickening out of his scheduled debate with Kamala Harris.

    Surprise, surprise!
    Because Harris now says she wants to do the debate sitting down, with notes on a table, and open microphones, as she did with Mike Pence back in 2020.

    https://s.abcnews.com/images/Politics/harris-pence-vp-debate-02-gty-jef-201007_1602120753578_hpMain_16x9_1600.jpg
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Taz said:

    Very saddened by the death of one of the WWE/WCW legends.

    Sid Vicious has departed. He has many many fine moments. Breaking his leg and the Arn Anderson stabbing. Also this.

    https://x.com/yordanforhof44/status/1828160475508678846?s=61

    To anyone who’s not a hardcore American wrestling fan, Sid Vicious departed back in 1979.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Trump maybe has to decide whether to attack Harris as continuity Biden, or as the second coming of Lenin. Presumably the swing voters he needs have noticed that Biden isn't running a communist regime. Trump's probably too thick to understand this point though.

    Also note that it appears Donald Trump is laying the groundwork for chickening out of his scheduled debate with Kamala Harris.

    Surprise, surprise!
    Because Harris now says she wants to do the debate sitting down, with notes on a table, and open microphones, as she did with Mike Pence back in 2020.

    https://s.abcnews.com/images/Politics/harris-pence-vp-debate-02-gty-jef-201007_1602120753578_hpMain_16x9_1600.jpg
    Trump was also on air today saying that he'd also prefer hot mikes - despite waffling about not going to the debate because it's ABC.

    He'll debate at some point as his ego won't allow him to chicken out.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Very saddened by the death of one of the WWE/WCW legends.

    Sid Vicious has departed. He has many many fine moments. Breaking his leg and the Arn Anderson stabbing. Also this.

    https://x.com/yordanforhof44/status/1828160475508678846?s=61

    To anyone who’s not a hardcore American wrestling fan, Sid Vicious departed back in 1979.
    Sycho Sid, if you prefer.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Eudy
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited August 27
    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Trump maybe has to decide whether to attack Harris as continuity Biden, or as the second coming of Lenin. Presumably the swing voters he needs have noticed that Biden isn't running a communist regime. Trump's probably too thick to understand this point though.

    Also note that it appears Donald Trump is laying the groundwork for chickening out of his scheduled debate with Kamala Harris.

    Surprise, surprise!
    Because Harris now says she wants to do the debate sitting down, with notes on a table, and open microphones, as she did with Mike Pence back in 2020.

    https://s.abcnews.com/images/Politics/harris-pence-vp-debate-02-gty-jef-201007_1602120753578_hpMain_16x9_1600.jpg
    That's not true. Originally, the agreement was for muted microphones. Trump's campaign has been asking for muted microphones, because they know he'll talk nonsense and look like a twat. Trump himself has asked for them to be kept open, because he doesn't grasp that. Harris is happy to go with this too, because she does. But the confusion is allowing Trump to claim the rules are being challenged.

    But he's also apparently unnerved that Republicans aren't being treated softly by NBC and demanding they debate on Fox instead where a bunch of fat-headed hypocritical losers can be relied on to constantly lick his overstuffed arse while endlessly interrupting Harris.

    Bottom line is, he's worried he'll do badly and is looking for an excuse to get out.

    https://news.sky.com/story/amp/us-election-donald-trump-suggests-he-may-back-out-of-tv-debate-against-kamala-harris-13203880
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Omnium said:

    Nigelb said:

    Why did the pollster only publish this today ?
    It's likely to be a week or so before we get any kind of post convention consensus.

    2024 Arizona GE:

    Trump 47% (+3)
    Harris 44%
    .
    Trump 44% (+1)
    Harris 43%
    Kennedy 5%
    West 1%
    Stein 1%

    .@NoblePredictive, 1,003 RV, 8/12-16

    US polling is a bizarre game - it's not polling as we know it, and as a game I have no idea about the moves.
    Lissa Slotkin looks slotted in for the Senate seat, nonetheless.

    2024 Michigan Senate GE:

    Elissa Slotkin (D) 49% (+10)
    Mike Rogers (R) 39%

    TIPP Insights/@theamgreatness (R), 741 LV, 8/20-22

    https://x.com/Politics_Polls/status/1828268729127325739
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Trump maybe has to decide whether to attack Harris as continuity Biden, or as the second coming of Lenin. Presumably the swing voters he needs have noticed that Biden isn't running a communist regime. Trump's probably too thick to understand this point though.

    Also note that it appears Donald Trump is laying the groundwork for chickening out of his scheduled debate with Kamala Harris.

    Surprise, surprise!
    Because Harris now says she wants to do the debate sitting down, with notes on a table, and open microphones, as she did with Mike Pence back in 2020.

    https://s.abcnews.com/images/Politics/harris-pence-vp-debate-02-gty-jef-201007_1602120753578_hpMain_16x9_1600.jpg
    Trump was also on air today saying that he'd also prefer hot mikes - despite waffling about not going to the debate because it's ABC.

    He'll debate at some point as his ego won't allow him to chicken out.
    Well the CEO of ABC is the lady who introduced Harris to her husband, it’s all a rather incestuous business the US media and politics. The suggestion from Harris is that this is the only debate she’s going to do, refusing CNN and Fox.

    I actually thought that the muted mics helped Trump in the debate with Biden, as he knew he couldn’t speak out of turn and moderated himself appropriately.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    MaxPB said:

    Capping the rate of food inflation. Lol, was this policy written by a 3 year old?

    The Tories floated the same thing. It will lower food prices in the same way the energy price cap has lowered the cost of energy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Alanbrooke was on about flip-flopping.

    Appointing two nutters, who've only just officially flipped themselves, to the transition team is a piece of genuine nuttery.

    Confirmed: RFK Jr. and Tusli Gabbard are now working on the Trump transition team. Gabbard is also set to appear with Trump in battleground Wisconsin later this week.

    NYT was first to report.

    https://x.com/olivialarinaldi/status/1828454834372329982

    Thoughts and prayers for JD Vance.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    MaxPB said:

    Capping the rate of food inflation. Lol, was this policy written by a 3 year old?

    Link ?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    MaxPB said:

    Capping the rate of food inflation. Lol, was this policy written by a 3 year old?

    Price controls always work, didn’t you study economics? 🤡 They’ve never resulted in queues, riots, failed harvests, or mass starvation, they just lower the cost of food for the everyday hard-working family.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,465
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:
    The corporate tax rate change requires only allowing the Trump tax cut (the single most expensive tax bill in history) to expire.

    Effective tax rates before and after the Trump tax law:

    Verizon
    Before: 21%
    After: 8%

    Walmart
    Before: 31%
    After: 17%

    AT&T
    Before: 13%
    After: 3%

    Walt Disney
    Before: 26%
    After: 8%

    FedEx
    Before: 18%
    After: 1%

    https://x.com/RBReich/status/1828152959563149683
    If Harris wins the US would have a corporation tax rate at 28%, even higher than ours at 25% and the OECD average rate of 23%
    So, it would have a corporate income tax level very slightly higher than average.

    Is there any evidence, beyond a few tax havens, that reducing corporation tax below (say) 20% actually benefits jobs and growth?
    It worked for Ireland
    Would it work for an independent Scotland?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited August 27
    Well...

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims:

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy. In the immediate aftermath of the mini-Budget, Ms Truss and her chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, launched a desperate attempt to find spending cuts in an effort to restore stock-market confidence in their strategy.

    A group of Ms Truss’s Tory aides met to discuss the issue. One of her senior advisers, Alex Boyd, “was told that Truss and Kwarteng were thinking they could still sort out the black hole with severe cuts”: “We’ve been told that they’re looking at stopping cancer treatment on the NHS.” ....

    "She’s shouting at everyone that ‘We’ve got to find the money.’ When we tell her it can’t be done, she shouts back: ‘It’s not true. The money is there. You go and find it,’” ...


    Speaking to The Independent, Mr Kwarteng said: “I wasn’t involved in any conversations about restricting healthcare, but that doesn’t mean the prime minister and her team didn’t discuss this.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-at-10-nhs-cancer-economy-b2601932.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    Nigelb said:

    Omnium said:

    Nigelb said:

    Why did the pollster only publish this today ?
    It's likely to be a week or so before we get any kind of post convention consensus.

    2024 Arizona GE:

    Trump 47% (+3)
    Harris 44%
    .
    Trump 44% (+1)
    Harris 43%
    Kennedy 5%
    West 1%
    Stein 1%

    .@NoblePredictive, 1,003 RV, 8/12-16

    US polling is a bizarre game - it's not polling as we know it, and as a game I have no idea about the moves.
    Lissa Slotkin looks slotted in for the Senate seat, nonetheless.

    2024 Michigan Senate GE:

    Elissa Slotkin (D) 49% (+10)
    Mike Rogers (R) 39%

    TIPP Insights/@theamgreatness (R), 741 LV, 8/20-22

    https://x.com/Politics_Polls/status/1828268729127325739
    Sometime you feel like a nut . . . and sometimes you don't. Rogers being a true nutter's nut.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    FF43 said:

    Well...

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims:

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy. In the immediate aftermath of the mini-Budget, Ms Truss and her chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, launched a desperate attempt to find spending cuts in an effort to restore stock-market confidence in their strategy.

    A group of Ms Truss’s Tory aides met to discuss the issue. One of her senior advisers, Alex Boyd, “was told that Truss and Kwarteng were thinking they could still sort out the black hole with severe cuts”: “We’ve been told that they’re looking at stopping cancer treatment on the NHS.” ....

    "She’s shouting at everyone that ‘We’ve got to find the money.’ When we tell her it can’t be done, she shouts back: ‘It’s not true. The money is there. You go and find it,’” ...


    Speaking to The Independent, Mr Kwarteng said: “I wasn’t involved in any conversations about restricting healthcare, but that doesn’t mean the prime minister and her team didn’t discuss this.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-at-10-nhs-cancer-economy-b2601932.html

    Kwarteng is enjoying his revenge, served as cold as an iceberg at the North Pole.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Nigelb said:

    Omnium said:

    Nigelb said:

    Why did the pollster only publish this today ?
    It's likely to be a week or so before we get any kind of post convention consensus.

    2024 Arizona GE:

    Trump 47% (+3)
    Harris 44%
    .
    Trump 44% (+1)
    Harris 43%
    Kennedy 5%
    West 1%
    Stein 1%

    .@NoblePredictive, 1,003 RV, 8/12-16

    US polling is a bizarre game - it's not polling as we know it, and as a game I have no idea about the moves.
    Lissa Slotkin looks slotted in for the Senate seat, nonetheless.

    2024 Michigan Senate GE:

    Elissa Slotkin (D) 49% (+10)
    Mike Rogers (R) 39%

    TIPP Insights/@theamgreatness (R), 741 LV, 8/20-22

    https://x.com/Politics_Polls/status/1828268729127325739
    Sometime you feel like a nut . . . and sometimes you don't. Rogers being a true nutter's nut.
    I think laying the GOP for control of the Senate (around 1.4 on Betfair Exchange - stake £4 to win £10) looks a decent bet.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    Wise words in the Guardian (Rafael Behr)

    Ending strikes was one of very few immediately operable levers to pull with a direct effect of getting Britain working better under Labour.

    After that, it is all slower and harder. Starmer can remind people from time to time that his inheritance was grim, but at some point that starts to sound like an excuse for failure. If he is lucky, the Conservatives will help renew Labour’s licence to clear up a Tory mess by choosing an unrepentant leader who can’t offer a sincere account of why the party deserved to be defeated. Currently, all of the candidates fit that template.

    But the official opposition is not the prime minister’s main adversary. For now, he is racing the clock. He has promised tangible change to voters whose readiness to believe him will degrade while they experience life as more of the same. And there is no way of knowing how much time he has. There is no measuring patience. You only find out how much there was once it has gone.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Very saddened by the death of one of the WWE/WCW legends.

    Sid Vicious has departed. He has many many fine moments. Breaking his leg and the Arn Anderson stabbing. Also this.

    https://x.com/yordanforhof44/status/1828160475508678846?s=61

    To anyone who’s not a hardcore American wrestling fan, Sid Vicious departed back in 1979.
    Sid to Freddie Mercury: Still bringing opera to the fucking masses then? FM: We are doing our best, Mr Ferocious.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    Well...

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims:

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy. In the immediate aftermath of the mini-Budget, Ms Truss and her chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, launched a desperate attempt to find spending cuts in an effort to restore stock-market confidence in their strategy.

    A group of Ms Truss’s Tory aides met to discuss the issue. One of her senior advisers, Alex Boyd, “was told that Truss and Kwarteng were thinking they could still sort out the black hole with severe cuts”: “We’ve been told that they’re looking at stopping cancer treatment on the NHS.” ....

    "She’s shouting at everyone that ‘We’ve got to find the money.’ When we tell her it can’t be done, she shouts back: ‘It’s not true. The money is there. You go and find it,’” ...


    Speaking to The Independent, Mr Kwarteng said: “I wasn’t involved in any conversations about restricting healthcare, but that doesn’t mean the prime minister and her team didn’t discuss this.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-at-10-nhs-cancer-economy-b2601932.html

    Kwarteng is enjoying his revenge, served as cold as an iceberg at the North Pole.
    Possible, but Kwarteng all but confirms the story is true, but he doesn't come out of it well.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Capping the rate of food inflation. Lol, was this policy written by a 3 year old?

    Price controls always work, didn’t you study economics? 🤡 They’ve never resulted in queues, riots, failed harvests, or mass starvation, they just lower the cost of food for the everyday hard-working family.
    Unless you or Max have something more recent, AFAIK this sort of thing is all that's being suggested.

    Trump slams Harris' call for a price-gouging ban, but 37 states already have their own
    Experts say her proposal wouldn’t set hard limits on pricing but would instead police “excessive” hikes on essentials — a goal Trump and GOP-led states have also pursued in different forms.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/trump-slams-harris-call-ban-price-gouging-37-states-already-rcna167158
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    Well...

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims:

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy. In the immediate aftermath of the mini-Budget, Ms Truss and her chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, launched a desperate attempt to find spending cuts in an effort to restore stock-market confidence in their strategy.

    A group of Ms Truss’s Tory aides met to discuss the issue. One of her senior advisers, Alex Boyd, “was told that Truss and Kwarteng were thinking they could still sort out the black hole with severe cuts”: “We’ve been told that they’re looking at stopping cancer treatment on the NHS.” ....

    "She’s shouting at everyone that ‘We’ve got to find the money.’ When we tell her it can’t be done, she shouts back: ‘It’s not true. The money is there. You go and find it,’” ...


    Speaking to The Independent, Mr Kwarteng said: “I wasn’t involved in any conversations about restricting healthcare, but that doesn’t mean the prime minister and her team didn’t discuss this.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-at-10-nhs-cancer-economy-b2601932.html

    Kwarteng is enjoying his revenge, served as cold as an iceberg at the North Pole.
    Sure, but at no point did he look into her eyes and think - here is a great leader. He took a risk, and I think his decision to take that risk should be noted as perhaps the least astute ever.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    Well...

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims:

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy. In the immediate aftermath of the mini-Budget, Ms Truss and her chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, launched a desperate attempt to find spending cuts in an effort to restore stock-market confidence in their strategy.

    A group of Ms Truss’s Tory aides met to discuss the issue. One of her senior advisers, Alex Boyd, “was told that Truss and Kwarteng were thinking they could still sort out the black hole with severe cuts”: “We’ve been told that they’re looking at stopping cancer treatment on the NHS.” ....

    "She’s shouting at everyone that ‘We’ve got to find the money.’ When we tell her it can’t be done, she shouts back: ‘It’s not true. The money is there. You go and find it,’” ...


    Speaking to The Independent, Mr Kwarteng said: “I wasn’t involved in any conversations about restricting healthcare, but that doesn’t mean the prime minister and her team didn’t discuss this.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-at-10-nhs-cancer-economy-b2601932.html

    Kwarteng is enjoying his revenge, served as cold as an iceberg at the North Pole.
    Confirmation if needed that Truss was quite simply completely off the scale of competence and even the basics of compassion
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,424
    Andy_JS said:

    "Wheelchair-bound driver, 96, becomes oldest woman in Britain to admit death by dangerous driving after she killed pensioner, 76, and injured pedestrian, 80, with her Vauxhall Corsa"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13784177/Wheelchair-bound-driver-96-oldest-woman-Britain-admit-death-dangerous-driving.html

    One benefit of 15-minute cities is they can help with the loss of independence that comes with losing the ability to drive (safely).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    Andy_JS said:

    Since Cameron no PMs have lasted in office longer than about 3 years. It'll be interesting to see if Starmer can do any better.

    He will probably last the term even if he does terribly in the polls and internally because the mechanism to eject a Labour leader is far harder.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wheelchair-bound driver, 96, becomes oldest woman in Britain to admit death by dangerous driving after she killed pensioner, 76, and injured pedestrian, 80, with her Vauxhall Corsa"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13784177/Wheelchair-bound-driver-96-oldest-woman-Britain-admit-death-dangerous-driving.html

    One benefit of 15-minute cities is they can help with the loss of independence that comes with losing the ability to drive (safely).
    Nobody should be driving at 96.

    Jeez.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    IanB2 said:

    The longest steel span in the western hemisphere, and third highest bridge in the US. Plus one of National Geographic's twenty coolest places to visit in 2024, apparently - although not today as it is super hot already and a heatwave is arriving...

    That looks like Clayton bridge over Clayton ravine.

    You know, the one Marty wasn't thinking fourth dimensionally enough about.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    I happen to be reading a JG Ballard book atm, so found this article interesting.

    "Ballard predicted the collapse of the middle class
    The future will be neo-feudal
    Paul Heron"

    https://unherd.com/2024/08/ballard-predicted-the-collapse-of-the-middle-class/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    This almost outdoes Trumpy Trout.

    This is a real video Donald Trump just posted
    https://x.com/AdamParkhomenko/status/1828451144508600491
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994

    MaxPB said:

    Capping the rate of food inflation. Lol, was this policy written by a 3 year old?

    The Tories floated the same thing. It will lower food prices in the same way the energy price cap has lowered the cost of energy.
    The original criticism of Ed Milibands proposal was entirely correct.

    Market based solution is far better. To the extent energy prices are still high when there's a glut of energy, that's structural too: we pay power generators to dump excess power rather than use it to lower prices.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    I agree with him about the pointlessness of changing to a hemicycle, it's one of those ideas which is floated as leading to some grand change which is just nonsense, but his final response is definitely only one an ex-MP would make.

    Very odd, has he forgotten Mr Heseltine and the Mace?
    The Houses of Parliament need serious money spent - I've seen £10 billion quoted - on repair and refurbishment. This could mean MPs decamping for up to six years to Richmond House but there is an opportunity to try something different. Many other legislative chambers are less adversarial in shape than the House of Commons.

    Could political culture be affected by environment?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    edited August 27
    FF43 said:

    Well...

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims:

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy. In the immediate aftermath of the mini-Budget, Ms Truss and her chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, launched a desperate attempt to find spending cuts in an effort to restore stock-market confidence in their strategy.

    A group of Ms Truss’s Tory aides met to discuss the issue. One of her senior advisers, Alex Boyd, “was told that Truss and Kwarteng were thinking they could still sort out the black hole with severe cuts”: “We’ve been told that they’re looking at stopping cancer treatment on the NHS.” ....

    "She’s shouting at everyone that ‘We’ve got to find the money.’ When we tell her it can’t be done, she shouts back: ‘It’s not true. The money is there. You go and find it,’” ...


    Speaking to The Independent, Mr Kwarteng said: “I wasn’t involved in any conversations about restricting healthcare, but that doesn’t mean the prime minister and her team didn’t discuss this.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-at-10-nhs-cancer-economy-b2601932.html

    So Kwasi says Alex Boyd said that an unnamed advisor said that Truss was considering cutting cancer treatment on the NHS. How would one even go about 'cutting cancer treatment on the NHS'? Loathsome drivel. I really pity Kwarteng that he's reduced to slagging off his former employer and close associate as a some sort of pseudo-career. It's like a poundshop version of Prince Harry.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    FF43 said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    Well...

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims:

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy. In the immediate aftermath of the mini-Budget, Ms Truss and her chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, launched a desperate attempt to find spending cuts in an effort to restore stock-market confidence in their strategy.

    A group of Ms Truss’s Tory aides met to discuss the issue. One of her senior advisers, Alex Boyd, “was told that Truss and Kwarteng were thinking they could still sort out the black hole with severe cuts”: “We’ve been told that they’re looking at stopping cancer treatment on the NHS.” ....

    "She’s shouting at everyone that ‘We’ve got to find the money.’ When we tell her it can’t be done, she shouts back: ‘It’s not true. The money is there. You go and find it,’” ...


    Speaking to The Independent, Mr Kwarteng said: “I wasn’t involved in any conversations about restricting healthcare, but that doesn’t mean the prime minister and her team didn’t discuss this.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-at-10-nhs-cancer-economy-b2601932.html

    Kwarteng is enjoying his revenge, served as cold as an iceberg at the North Pole.
    Possible, but Kwarteng all but confirms the story is true, but he doesn't come out of it well.
    How does he, in any way shape or form, 'confirm' anything??
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,424

    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wheelchair-bound driver, 96, becomes oldest woman in Britain to admit death by dangerous driving after she killed pensioner, 76, and injured pedestrian, 80, with her Vauxhall Corsa"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13784177/Wheelchair-bound-driver-96-oldest-woman-Britain-admit-death-dangerous-driving.html

    One benefit of 15-minute cities is they can help with the loss of independence that comes with losing the ability to drive (safely).
    Nobody should be driving at 96.

    Jeez.

    I've met 90-year olds setting up anchors on Curved Ridge. That's the problem - some people keep going fine until they drop dead.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited August 27

    Wise words in the Guardian (Rafael Behr)

    Ending strikes was one of very few immediately operable levers to pull with a direct effect of getting Britain working better under Labour.

    After that, it is all slower and harder. Starmer can remind people from time to time that his inheritance was grim, but at some point that starts to sound like an excuse for failure. If he is lucky, the Conservatives will help renew Labour’s licence to clear up a Tory mess by choosing an unrepentant leader who can’t offer a sincere account of why the party deserved to be defeated. Currently, all of the candidates fit that template.

    But the official opposition is not the prime minister’s main adversary. For now, he is racing the clock. He has promised tangible change to voters whose readiness to believe him will degrade while they experience life as more of the same. And there is no way of knowing how much time he has. There is no measuring patience. You only find out how much there was once it has gone.

    I think that's right. Spending cuts might be necessary but they shouldn't be the North Star of any government. The goal should always be to make people's lives better, however you achieve that. The previous Conservative government made this mistake during its more sensible phase. Starmer risks doing the same.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    edited August 27
    Election officials and (especially) workers in Washington State are currently conducting a statewide mandatory hand recount in the August 2024 "Top Two" Primary in race for state Commissioner of Public Lands, between current 2nd and 3rd place candidates, Democrat Dave Upthegrove and Republican Sue Kuehl Pederson, with DU ahead of SKP by just +51 votes out of 1.9 million ballots cast statewide.

    Note that 1st-place finisher, Republican Jaime Herrera Beutler, is already certified for the 2024 general election ballot; thus a recount victory by Pederson would mean two GOPers for CPL versus zero Democrats. Freezing out the Libtards would be a major success for the otherwise beleagured WA State GOP; happened because Reps fielded two candidats versus FIVE by the Democrats (the party having no control over who files, and the enviros failing to clear the field sufficiently).

    NOTE that yesterday, yours truly personally observed the first day of the recount in King County, which is were about one-third of the statewide vote was cast in the primary.

    Below is an overview of the status of King County’s portion of the recount for Commissioner of Public Lands.

    Day 1 (8/26/2024)

    Ballots counted (total): 86,108
    Ballots left to count (total): 473,266
    Updated projected completion date: September 3, 2024

    Total variances from original machine count = 3 changes on three ballots (error rate = 0.000035%)
    Variance 1: went from vote for Jaime Herrera Beutler > to undervote (no selection made)
    Variance 2: went from vote for Kevin Van De Wege > to vote for Patrick DePoe
    Variance 3: went from undervote > to vote for Jaime Herrera Beutler

    SSI - Not too bad for government work. My semi-educated guess, is that rate of variance will remain at current level or thereabouts, yielding around 20 vote changes.

    FURTHER NOTE that in 2020 general election, King County did manatory hand recount of 97k ballots in a legislative race, which yielded 23 variences (much higher than current recount so far) of which 6 resulted in zero change between the two candidates (like yesterday) and the rest where divided between gains and losses for both candidates, resulting in a net difference of ONE vote when all was said & done.

    Something similar looks likely in King Co this recount. HOWEVER with a 51-vote margin statewide, even the slightest change in any of 39 counties, could have a BIG impact!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    Well...

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims:

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy. In the immediate aftermath of the mini-Budget, Ms Truss and her chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, launched a desperate attempt to find spending cuts in an effort to restore stock-market confidence in their strategy.

    A group of Ms Truss’s Tory aides met to discuss the issue. One of her senior advisers, Alex Boyd, “was told that Truss and Kwarteng were thinking they could still sort out the black hole with severe cuts”: “We’ve been told that they’re looking at stopping cancer treatment on the NHS.” ....

    "She’s shouting at everyone that ‘We’ve got to find the money.’ When we tell her it can’t be done, she shouts back: ‘It’s not true. The money is there. You go and find it,’” ...


    Speaking to The Independent, Mr Kwarteng said: “I wasn’t involved in any conversations about restricting healthcare, but that doesn’t mean the prime minister and her team didn’t discuss this.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-at-10-nhs-cancer-economy-b2601932.html

    Kwarteng is enjoying his revenge, served as cold as an iceberg at the North Pole.
    Possible, but Kwarteng all but confirms the story is true, but he doesn't come out of it well.
    How does he, in any way shape or form, 'confirm' anything??
    Through a double negative of course.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    Andy_JS said:

    Since Cameron no PMs have lasted in office longer than about 3 years. It'll be interesting to see if Starmer can do any better.

    He will probably last the term even if he does terribly in the polls and internally because the mechanism to eject a Labour leader is far harder.
    There are rumours that the forthcoming Michael Ashcroft biography is going to be a very interesting read.
  • FossFoss Posts: 992
    stodge said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    I agree with him about the pointlessness of changing to a hemicycle, it's one of those ideas which is floated as leading to some grand change which is just nonsense, but his final response is definitely only one an ex-MP would make.

    Very odd, has he forgotten Mr Heseltine and the Mace?
    The Houses of Parliament need serious money spent - I've seen £10 billion quoted - on repair and refurbishment. This could mean MPs decamping for up to six years to Richmond House but there is an opportunity to try something different. Many other legislative chambers are less adversarial in shape than the House of Commons.

    Could political culture be affected by environment?
    WFH. And make them announce if they're in a location in their constituency when they're called or vote.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    FF43 said:

    Well...

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims:

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy. In the immediate aftermath of the mini-Budget, Ms Truss and her chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, launched a desperate attempt to find spending cuts in an effort to restore stock-market confidence in their strategy.

    A group of Ms Truss’s Tory aides met to discuss the issue. One of her senior advisers, Alex Boyd, “was told that Truss and Kwarteng were thinking they could still sort out the black hole with severe cuts”: “We’ve been told that they’re looking at stopping cancer treatment on the NHS.” ....

    "She’s shouting at everyone that ‘We’ve got to find the money.’ When we tell her it can’t be done, she shouts back: ‘It’s not true. The money is there. You go and find it,’” ...


    Speaking to The Independent, Mr Kwarteng said: “I wasn’t involved in any conversations about restricting healthcare, but that doesn’t mean the prime minister and her team didn’t discuss this.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-at-10-nhs-cancer-economy-b2601932.html

    So Kwasi says Alex Boyd said that an unnamed advisor said that Truss was considering cutting cancer treatment on the NHS. How would one even go about 'cutting cancer treatment on the NHS'? Loathsome drivel. I really pity Kwarteng that he's reduced to slagging off his former employer and close associate as a some sort of pseudo-career. It's like a poundshop version of Prince Harry.
    Yeah.

    There’s no NHS Cancer Treatment On/Off stop button.

    So you’d have to try and tell all the trusts to stop. The first thing they’d do after making sure it wasn’t a prank call, is say no. And call all the lawyers.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    edited August 27

    FF43 said:

    Well...

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims:

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy. In the immediate aftermath of the mini-Budget, Ms Truss and her chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, launched a desperate attempt to find spending cuts in an effort to restore stock-market confidence in their strategy.

    A group of Ms Truss’s Tory aides met to discuss the issue. One of her senior advisers, Alex Boyd, “was told that Truss and Kwarteng were thinking they could still sort out the black hole with severe cuts”: “We’ve been told that they’re looking at stopping cancer treatment on the NHS.” ....

    "She’s shouting at everyone that ‘We’ve got to find the money.’ When we tell her it can’t be done, she shouts back: ‘It’s not true. The money is there. You go and find it,’” ...


    Speaking to The Independent, Mr Kwarteng said: “I wasn’t involved in any conversations about restricting healthcare, but that doesn’t mean the prime minister and her team didn’t discuss this.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-at-10-nhs-cancer-economy-b2601932.html

    So Kwasi says Alex Boyd said that an unnamed advisor said that Truss was considering cutting cancer treatment on the NHS. How would one even go about 'cutting cancer treatment on the NHS'? Loathsome drivel. I really pity Kwarteng that he's reduced to slagging off his former employer and close associate as a some sort of pseudo-career. It's like a poundshop version of Prince Harry.
    Yeah.

    There’s no NHS Cancer Treatment On/Off stop button.

    So you’d have to try and tell all the trusts to stop. The first thing they’d do after making sure it wasn’t a prank call, is say no. And call all the lawyers.
    The story is utter trash - I've heard more believable and less convoluted tales from Vicki Pollard.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599

    FF43 said:

    Well...

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims:

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy. In the immediate aftermath of the mini-Budget, Ms Truss and her chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, launched a desperate attempt to find spending cuts in an effort to restore stock-market confidence in their strategy.

    A group of Ms Truss’s Tory aides met to discuss the issue. One of her senior advisers, Alex Boyd, “was told that Truss and Kwarteng were thinking they could still sort out the black hole with severe cuts”: “We’ve been told that they’re looking at stopping cancer treatment on the NHS.” ....

    "She’s shouting at everyone that ‘We’ve got to find the money.’ When we tell her it can’t be done, she shouts back: ‘It’s not true. The money is there. You go and find it,’” ...


    Speaking to The Independent, Mr Kwarteng said: “I wasn’t involved in any conversations about restricting healthcare, but that doesn’t mean the prime minister and her team didn’t discuss this.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-at-10-nhs-cancer-economy-b2601932.html

    So Kwasi says Alex Boyd said that an unnamed advisor said that Truss was considering cutting cancer treatment on the NHS. How would one even go about 'cutting cancer treatment on the NHS'? Loathsome drivel. I really pity Kwarteng that he's reduced to slagging off his former employer and close associate as a some sort of pseudo-career. It's like a poundshop version of Prince Harry.
    Yeah.

    There’s no NHS Cancer Treatment On/Off stop button.

    So you’d have to try and tell all the trusts to stop. The first thing they’d do after making sure it wasn’t a prank call, is say no. And call all the lawyers.
    Err, did the Tory government ever try to implement impossible policies that sounded like prank calls and were stopped by the lawyers. Unfortunately on a monthly basis.......
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,465
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wheelchair-bound driver, 96, becomes oldest woman in Britain to admit death by dangerous driving after she killed pensioner, 76, and injured pedestrian, 80, with her Vauxhall Corsa"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13784177/Wheelchair-bound-driver-96-oldest-woman-Britain-admit-death-dangerous-driving.html

    One benefit of 15-minute cities is they can help with the loss of independence that comes with losing the ability to drive (safely).
    Nobody should be driving at 96.

    Jeez.

    I've met 90-year olds setting up anchors on Curved Ridge. That's the problem - some people keep going fine until they drop dead.
    There was a 102-year-old skydiving a few days ago.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205

    FF43 said:

    Well...

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims:

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy. In the immediate aftermath of the mini-Budget, Ms Truss and her chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, launched a desperate attempt to find spending cuts in an effort to restore stock-market confidence in their strategy.

    A group of Ms Truss’s Tory aides met to discuss the issue. One of her senior advisers, Alex Boyd, “was told that Truss and Kwarteng were thinking they could still sort out the black hole with severe cuts”: “We’ve been told that they’re looking at stopping cancer treatment on the NHS.” ....

    "She’s shouting at everyone that ‘We’ve got to find the money.’ When we tell her it can’t be done, she shouts back: ‘It’s not true. The money is there. You go and find it,’” ...


    Speaking to The Independent, Mr Kwarteng said: “I wasn’t involved in any conversations about restricting healthcare, but that doesn’t mean the prime minister and her team didn’t discuss this.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-at-10-nhs-cancer-economy-b2601932.html

    So Kwasi says Alex Boyd said that an unnamed advisor said that Truss was considering cutting cancer treatment on the NHS. How would one even go about 'cutting cancer treatment on the NHS'? Loathsome drivel. I really pity Kwarteng that he's reduced to slagging off his former employer and close associate as a some sort of pseudo-career. It's like a poundshop version of Prince Harry.
    Yeah.

    There’s no NHS Cancer Treatment On/Off stop button.

    So you’d have to try and tell all the trusts to stop. The first thing they’d do after making sure it wasn’t a prank call, is say no. And call all the lawyers.
    The story is utter trash - I've heard more believable and less convoluted tales from Vicki Pollard.
    Your long and sad history of believing utter trash and denying reality is such that there must be truth in this story. ;)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Election officials and (especially) workers in Washington State are currently conducting a statewide mandatory hand recount in the August 2024 "Top Two" Primary in race for state Commissioner of Public Lands, between current 2nd and 3rd place candidates, Democrat Dave Upthegrove and Republican Sue Kuehl Pederson, with DU ahead of SKP by just +51 votes out of 1.9 million ballots cast statewide.

    Note that 1st-place finisher, Republican Jaime Herrera Beutler, is already certified for the 2024 general election ballot; thus a recount victory by Pederson would mean two GOPers for CPL versus zero Democrats. Freezing out the Libtards would be a major success for the otherwise beleagured WA State GOP; happened because Reps fielded two candidats versus FIVE by the Democrats (the party having no control over who files, and the enviros failing to clear the field sufficiently).

    NOTE that yesterday, yours truly personally observed the first day of the recount in King County, which is were about one-third of the statewide vote was cast in the primary.

    Below is an overview of the status of King County’s portion of the recount for Commissioner of Public Lands.

    Day 1 (8/26/2024)

    Ballots counted (total): 86,108
    Ballots left to count (total): 473,266
    Updated projected completion date: September 3, 2024

    Total variances from original machine count = 3 changes on three ballots (error rate = 0.000035%)
    Variance 1: went from vote for Jaime Herrera Beutler > to undervote (no selection made)
    Variance 2: went from vote for Kevin Van De Wege > to vote for Patrick DePoe
    Variance 3: went from undervote > to vote for Jaime Herrera Beutler

    SSI - Not too bad for government work. My semi-educated guess, is that rate of variance will remain at current level or thereabouts, yielding around 20 vote changes.

    FURTHER NOTE that in 2020 general election, King County did manatory hand recount of 97k ballots in a legislative race, which yielded 23 variences (much higher than current recount so far) of which 6 resulted in zero change between the two candidates (like yesterday) and the rest where divided between gains and losses for both candidates, resulting in a net difference of ONE vote when all was said & done.

    Something similar looks likely in King Co this recount. HOWEVER with a 51-vote margin statewide, even the slightest change in any of 39 counties, could have a BIG impact!

    The last UK Parliamentary election for which there’s data, managed to count more than 32,000,000 votes in under 17 hours. All paper ballots with a cross in the box, counted by hand.

    https://electionresults.parliament.uk/general-elections/4/declaration-times

    As someone who’s never observed an American election in person, it’s utterly astonishing how drawn-out the process becomes. One could possibly understand it when they were sending delegates to Washington on horseback, but in 2024 there’s really no excuse for not having the results final within a couple of days.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    stodge said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    I agree with him about the pointlessness of changing to a hemicycle, it's one of those ideas which is floated as leading to some grand change which is just nonsense, but his final response is definitely only one an ex-MP would make.

    Very odd, has he forgotten Mr Heseltine and the Mace?
    The Houses of Parliament need serious money spent - I've seen £10 billion quoted - on repair and refurbishment. This could mean MPs decamping for up to six years to Richmond House but there is an opportunity to try something different. Many other legislative chambers are less adversarial in shape than the House of Commons.

    Could political culture be affected by environment?
    That's precisely why they haven't moved yet.

    MPs and Peers fear the consequences, and that they won't get back in again.

    FWIW, I think the idea that the "shape" of the chamber makes a difference to how adversarial or not your politics is to be rather barking.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    Andy_JS said:

    Since Cameron no PMs have lasted in office longer than about 3 years. It'll be interesting to see if Starmer can do any better.

    He will probably last the term even if he does terribly in the polls and internally because the mechanism to eject a Labour leader is far harder.
    There are rumours that the forthcoming Michael Ashcroft biography is going to be a very interesting read.
    The biography that was published in 2021?

    Unless there is a new version that Amazon isn't listing yet?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    FF43 said:

    Well...

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims:

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy. In the immediate aftermath of the mini-Budget, Ms Truss and her chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, launched a desperate attempt to find spending cuts in an effort to restore stock-market confidence in their strategy.

    A group of Ms Truss’s Tory aides met to discuss the issue. One of her senior advisers, Alex Boyd, “was told that Truss and Kwarteng were thinking they could still sort out the black hole with severe cuts”: “We’ve been told that they’re looking at stopping cancer treatment on the NHS.” ....

    "She’s shouting at everyone that ‘We’ve got to find the money.’ When we tell her it can’t be done, she shouts back: ‘It’s not true. The money is there. You go and find it,’” ...


    Speaking to The Independent, Mr Kwarteng said: “I wasn’t involved in any conversations about restricting healthcare, but that doesn’t mean the prime minister and her team didn’t discuss this.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-at-10-nhs-cancer-economy-b2601932.html

    So Kwasi says Alex Boyd said that an unnamed advisor said that Truss was considering cutting cancer treatment on the NHS. How would one even go about 'cutting cancer treatment on the NHS'? Loathsome drivel. I really pity Kwarteng that he's reduced to slagging off his former employer and close associate as a some sort of pseudo-career. It's like a poundshop version of Prince Harry.
    Yeah.

    There’s no NHS Cancer Treatment On/Off stop button.

    So you’d have to try and tell all the trusts to stop. The first thing they’d do after making sure it wasn’t a prank call, is say no. And call all the lawyers.
    The story is utter trash - I've heard more believable and less convoluted tales from Vicki Pollard.
    Got to say your denial tells me that the story is valid...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    FF43 said:

    Well...

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims:

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy. In the immediate aftermath of the mini-Budget, Ms Truss and her chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, launched a desperate attempt to find spending cuts in an effort to restore stock-market confidence in their strategy.

    A group of Ms Truss’s Tory aides met to discuss the issue. One of her senior advisers, Alex Boyd, “was told that Truss and Kwarteng were thinking they could still sort out the black hole with severe cuts”: “We’ve been told that they’re looking at stopping cancer treatment on the NHS.” ....

    "She’s shouting at everyone that ‘We’ve got to find the money.’ When we tell her it can’t be done, she shouts back: ‘It’s not true. The money is there. You go and find it,’” ...


    Speaking to The Independent, Mr Kwarteng said: “I wasn’t involved in any conversations about restricting healthcare, but that doesn’t mean the prime minister and her team didn’t discuss this.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-at-10-nhs-cancer-economy-b2601932.html

    So Kwasi says Alex Boyd said that an unnamed advisor said that Truss was considering cutting cancer treatment on the NHS. How would one even go about 'cutting cancer treatment on the NHS'? Loathsome drivel. I really pity Kwarteng that he's reduced to slagging off his former employer and close associate as a some sort of pseudo-career. It's like a poundshop version of Prince Harry.
    Yeah.

    There’s no NHS Cancer Treatment On/Off stop button.

    So you’d have to try and tell all the trusts to stop. The first thing they’d do after making sure it wasn’t a prank call, is say no. And call all the lawyers.
    Err, did the Tory government ever try to implement impossible policies that sounded like prank calls and were stopped by the lawyers. Unfortunately on a monthly basis.......
    You could cut the NHS budget by 5% and leave trusts to sort out what to cut, there would be zero need or indeed mechanism by which you could target 'cancer treatment', and the only reason such a bizarre concept has been dreamed up is to smear the Truss Government. The fact the Independent published it, and that avowedly intelligent people have given it airtime on PB is proof that Truss derangement syndrome is real and dangerous.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wheelchair-bound driver, 96, becomes oldest woman in Britain to admit death by dangerous driving after she killed pensioner, 76, and injured pedestrian, 80, with her Vauxhall Corsa"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13784177/Wheelchair-bound-driver-96-oldest-woman-Britain-admit-death-dangerous-driving.html

    One benefit of 15-minute cities is they can help with the loss of independence that comes with losing the ability to drive (safely).
    Nobody should be driving at 96.

    Jeez.

    I've met 90-year olds setting up anchors on Curved Ridge. That's the problem - some people keep going fine until they drop dead.
    There was a 102-year-old skydiving a few days ago.
    As a copilot, with an instructor.

    We all need to have that chat with our parents at some point, and it’s really not an easy call to make if they rely on the car for daily life.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    stodge said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    I agree with him about the pointlessness of changing to a hemicycle, it's one of those ideas which is floated as leading to some grand change which is just nonsense, but his final response is definitely only one an ex-MP would make.

    Very odd, has he forgotten Mr Heseltine and the Mace?
    The Houses of Parliament need serious money spent - I've seen £10 billion quoted - on repair and refurbishment. This could mean MPs decamping for up to six years to Richmond House but there is an opportunity to try something different. Many other legislative chambers are less adversarial in shape than the House of Commons.

    Could political culture be affected by environment?
    Having enough seats for all the legislators (HoC anyway) would be a considerable improvement.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    FF43 said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    Well...

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims:

    Liz Truss considered scrapping all NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy. In the immediate aftermath of the mini-Budget, Ms Truss and her chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, launched a desperate attempt to find spending cuts in an effort to restore stock-market confidence in their strategy.

    A group of Ms Truss’s Tory aides met to discuss the issue. One of her senior advisers, Alex Boyd, “was told that Truss and Kwarteng were thinking they could still sort out the black hole with severe cuts”: “We’ve been told that they’re looking at stopping cancer treatment on the NHS.” ....

    "She’s shouting at everyone that ‘We’ve got to find the money.’ When we tell her it can’t be done, she shouts back: ‘It’s not true. The money is there. You go and find it,’” ...


    Speaking to The Independent, Mr Kwarteng said: “I wasn’t involved in any conversations about restricting healthcare, but that doesn’t mean the prime minister and her team didn’t discuss this.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-kwasi-kwarteng-at-10-nhs-cancer-economy-b2601932.html

    Kwarteng is enjoying his revenge, served as cold as an iceberg at the North Pole.
    Possible, but Kwarteng all but confirms the story is true, but he doesn't come out of it well.
    Truss - We need to find savings!
    Civil service - We could cut cancer treatment?
    Truss - Have you lost your mind?

    Headline: TRUSS CONSIDERED CUTTING CANCER TREATMENT
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    stodge said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    I agree with him about the pointlessness of changing to a hemicycle, it's one of those ideas which is floated as leading to some grand change which is just nonsense, but his final response is definitely only one an ex-MP would make.

    Very odd, has he forgotten Mr Heseltine and the Mace?
    The Houses of Parliament need serious money spent - I've seen £10 billion quoted - on repair and refurbishment. This could mean MPs decamping for up to six years to Richmond House but there is an opportunity to try something different. Many other legislative chambers are less adversarial in shape than the House of Commons.

    Could political culture be affected by environment?
    That's precisely why they haven't moved yet.

    MPs and Peers fear the consequences, and that they won't get back in again.

    FWIW, I think the idea that the "shape" of the chamber makes a difference to how adversarial or not your politics is to be rather barking.
    The comment earlier that the fights occur in hemispheres was right though.

    Two adversarial groups divided by a clear pair of lines on the floor, understand that their line isn’t one to be crossed. Physically as well as metaphorically.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    kamski said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    RealClearPolitics still has Trump ahead in Pennsylvania by 0.2%.

    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/pennsylvania/trump-vs-harris

    They seem to ignore polls that indicate otherwise and, of course, they use Rasmussen. 538 has Harris 1.6% ahead in Pennsylvania: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/pennsylvania/. On their average she has had a small but consistent lead in the State for

    I still worry that Harris might regret not choosing Shapiro. Pennsylvania is the keystone state for this election. If Harris wins it, she wins. If she loses it it is going to be incredibly close.
    She might win even without Pennsylvania if she wins Michigan and Wisconsin and Nebraska 02, which Walz will help her with and Nevada which even Hillary won and one of NC or Georgia which the black vote will help her with (and Kennedy Jr is staying on the ballot in NC unlike Pennsylvania). Obama of course won NC in 2008.

    If Trump won Arizona and Georgia and Pennsylvania as well as the states he won in 2020 though Harris wins by just 273 to 265 votes, the closest EC margin since 2000 when Bush beat Gore by 271 to 266

    https://www.270towin.com/
    Yes, I agree. There are routes to 270 for Harris without Pennsylvania although they are far from easy. It is very hard to see any realistic routes to 270 for Trump without Pennsylvania though.

    One of the challenges for Trump is states he thought were nailed down coming into play. North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona and Nevada all looked pretty solid for him a month ago but are now in the toss up zone. Putting the kind of money he wants into Pennsylvania will become more difficult the more he has to play defence elsewhere.
    Assuming a close contest, Trump can win by picking up Georgia, Arizona, Nevada and one of Michigan or Wisconsin. How's that any less "realistic" than Harris losing Pennsylvania Georgia and Arizona but picking up North Carolina?
    Because neither Michigan nor Wisconsin are as close as Pennsylvania. If he wins either of those he will have won Penn too
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