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Another potential crossover is looming – politicalbetting.com

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  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Cookie said:

    NYT - Breaking news: Simone Biles wins second all-around Olympic gymnastics gold

    SSI - Look for statement shortly from JD Vance, criticizing SB for "under-performing".

    To br fait to Vance, I think he was (very reasonably, in my view) criticising a culture which praised victimhood over success.
    And I did think it peculiar that she seemed to get mote plaudits for pulling out than for winning. Sympathy, sure. But it went beyond that.
    But it was an odd time.
    Sorry, but personally think that line of argument is a vat of feret piss.

    IMHO, Vance is a 24/7/365+leapday asshole. And am pretty sure I am NOT alone.

    Worst VP pick since Andy Johnson.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Can anyone explain why the media keeps talking about the EDL (English Defence League) which was disbanded 10 years ago?

    I've referred to EDL on here. It's just shorthand for a number of far-right racist groups that have splintered in recent years, but most have some association with Tommy Robinson. Not all EDL members are aware that it is defunct, as they tend not be be very bright.
    If you'd prefer, I'll refer to Britain First in the future.
    There's one with "Patriot" - or "Patriotic" - in the name too. Forget the exact formulation.
    Patriotic Alternative.
    Presumably the alternative to eg the normal people of Southport who tried to show solidarity with each other, repaired the wall of the local mosque and swept up the mess after these rsoles came to town.
    That's the one. Ghouls really. And no I don't find it understandable in the circumstances and no I don't want to listen to their 'concerns'.
    Many things annoy me about these people. Onviously the big ones about being twats and mindless violence. But also, I have concerns about unlimited immigration. And the behaviour of these people really isn't helping advance my cause.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    He's been great. Such a fighter. So many brilliant matches. And in the time of the Fed, Nadal and Djokovic.
    Underrated. From 2012 through 2017 (before the injuries) he was totally Big4 along with those 3. And in 2016 he was the best. In that year a 2nd Wimbo won easily, successfully defended Olympic gold, Tour Finals, World #1.

    Always been a fan. The greatest ever Brit (or Scot if you like) solo sportsman.
    Not sure I'd go that far! He was very good, but the best ever in any solo sport? Just in tennis, I'd counterpropose Fred Perry. In any solo sport ever - good question, but I'd go for Phil Taylor. Various middle distance runners from.the 80s also get a nod. Who else?
    Has to be modern era sport. The quality is infinitely better now. So we can't have Perry. Iconic shirts though.

    The Power? Yes a GOAT and a half. But in darts.

    To rival Murray I suppose you could float the likes of Coe and Redgrave, Olympian types, but that is not bigtime fulltime professional top tier sport like Tennis is.

    There's a case - albeit quite a weak one - for Nick Faldo.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,321

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    He's been great. Such a fighter. So many brilliant matches. And in the time of the Fed, Nadal and Djokovic.
    Underrated. From 2012 through 2017 (before the injuries) he was totally Big4 along with those 3. And in 2016 he was the best. In that year a 2nd Wimbo won easily, successfully defended Olympic gold, Tour Finals, World #1.

    Always been a fan. The greatest ever Brit (or Scot if you like) solo sportsman.
    Not sure I'd go that far! He was very good, but the best ever in any solo sport? Just in tennis, I'd counterpropose Fred Perry. In any solo sport ever - good question, but I'd go for Phil Taylor. Various middle distance runners from.the 80s also get a nod. Who else?
    Ronnie o Sullivan for pure talent.
    Lester Piggott.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773

    Cookie said:

    NYT - Breaking news: Simone Biles wins second all-around Olympic gymnastics gold

    SSI - Look for statement shortly from JD Vance, criticizing SB for "under-performing".

    To br fait to Vance, I think he was (very reasonably, in my view) criticising a culture which praised victimhood over success.
    And I did think it peculiar that she seemed to get mote plaudits for pulling out than for winning. Sympathy, sure. But it went beyond that.
    But it was an odd time.
    Sorry, but personally think that line of argument is a vat of feret piss.

    IMHO, Vance is a 24/7/365+leapday asshole. And am pretty sure I am NOT alone.

    Worst VP pick since Andy Johnson.
    That last paragraph may be true, but I still think the amount of praise Simone Biles got for pulling out was daft.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    He's been great. Such a fighter. So many brilliant matches. And in the time of the Fed, Nadal and Djokovic.
    Underrated. From 2012 through 2017 (before the injuries) he was totally Big4 along with those 3. And in 2016 he was the best. In that year a 2nd Wimbo won easily, successfully defended Olympic gold, Tour Finals, World #1.

    Always been a fan. The greatest ever Brit (or Scot if you like) solo sportsman.
    Not sure I'd go that far! He was very good, but the best ever in any solo sport? Just in tennis, I'd counterpropose Fred Perry. In any solo sport ever - good question, but I'd go for Phil Taylor. Various middle distance runners from.the 80s also get a nod. Who else?
    Has to be modern era sport. The quality is infinitely better now. So we can't have Perry. Iconic shirts though.

    The Power? Yes a GOAT and a half. But in darts.

    To rival Murray I suppose you could float the likes of Coe and Redgrave, Olympian types, but that is not bigtime fulltime professional top tier sport like Tennis is.

    There's a case - albeit quite a weak one - for Nick Faldo.
    What about Lewis Hamilton?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited August 1
    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The BBC maybe should not have paid Edwards when he was suspended but I don't see why that is connected to the licence fee debate.

    Personally I would keep the licence fee but share it amongst multiple broadcasters on freeview for cultural, arts, historical, scientific and serious documentary programmes and some major international sports events. The BBC could then fund its more populist programmes like Eastenders, Match of the Day and Strictly and Michael Mcintyre's shows via advertising
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    Cookie said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Can anyone explain why the media keeps talking about the EDL (English Defence League) which was disbanded 10 years ago?

    Because they're a bit rubbish and use short-hand?

    As to why certain people quibble about it compared to condemning the thuggish, repulsive behaviour of people who would previously happily have turned up at EDL events - who can possibly say.
    It's sloppy though isn't it. If you think of all the various left wing splinter groups or Islamist groups I think they would be a bit more specific.
    The EDL have managed to exert a peculiar hold on the imagination. I remember a children's festival a few years back at which some activity-minder urged the kids not to vote EDL. Super redundant, given that the EDL weren't a political party, had been disbanded, and that the puzzled U7s at the festival didn't have the vote.
    Tommy Robinson one of the founder members who is still very much with us. It's probably shorthand for whichever bunch of racist dimwits he happens to be whipping up into a frenzy at any given moment.
    Yes that's how I use it. And I add "type" after it to make that clear. Do not want to get sued for inaccuracy!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited August 1
    FPT, as it's an important topic imo.
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Do we have any inkling of a motive regards this Stockport killer? His appearance in court suggests he had an agenda. Or just a pure sadist?

    How does his appearance in court suggest he had an agenda? (Genuine question - I didn't get any sense of that from the reports)

    Suspect this might be key:
    tlg86 said:

    From the BBC:

    When arguing that the judge should impose reporting restrictions preventing Rudakubana's identification, the prosecution said the suspect had an “autism spectrum disorder diagnosis”, and that he had been “unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time”.

    The judge allowed Rudakubana's name to be made public, saying "the balance clearly comes down in favour of the public interest".

    No grand narrative. Just a young man not coping with the world, with tragic consequences.
    It matches with the descriptions from the village that no one saw him, though they did see his parents.

    Perhaps lockdown at a critical stage of social development was a factor, though certainly isn't an excuse.
    Perhaps if people stopped trying to make excuses for evil bastards and instead told them they are evil bastards instead of handing them excuses "Its not you fault because you (came from a broken family/were in lockdown at a certain period/ too poor/ etc) delete as applicable"
    How would that have worked before this lad came to unfortunate prominence? Do you possess unerring evil bastard radar?
    When I was growing up bad people were bad people no excuses, we didnt have these sort of incidents nearly as frequently, the more people make exuses for these acts about why the bad guy did it the more we seem to get of them. Sorry if thats blunt but its also true
    What excuses were made for Rudakubana before his terrible act? You speak with such unerring certainty I assume you must know.
    I didn't say they were before but I am sure there will be plenty made now...oh he was abused, he grew up in poverty etc we should be lenient it was societies fault....just watch the guardian
    It's not really about excuses; it's about explanations in order to understand causes. And to learn how to prevent it happening again if we can find the cause. That is a different question to the individual's behaviour.

    "Lock him up and throw away the key" may get *him* out of society and give us satisfaction - but what about the catching the next one in advance if there is an identifiable cause?

    For this guy we don't know enough to understand causes. The only *potential* relevant context I can spot is that his parents came from Rwanda; did they go through the genocide as children? What has the impact been on him?

    Are there implications for PTSD refugees from places where killing, rape and torture are routine settling in Europe? We already know how our former servicemen can be impacted after leaving the military.

    One of my grandads was a wife-beater. He had been in the trenches in WW1 (PTSD etc), and also had Huntington's Chorea. Impulsive, unpredictable aggression and anger are behavioural symptoms of both. His wife did not manage it - basically just took his behaviour in a stoic fashion.

    My uncle also had the condition (my dad did not, and it does not skip generations), and was also impulsive and I think violent. I think that one thing which may have helped him manage *to an extent* was that he had a fairly ritualised life as a High Church Vicar, with a strong daily pattern.

    It does not condone the behaviour, however it does help explain, and potentially help manage it. Such behaviour, and conditions like that, impose significant trauma. And have an impact on following generations - for example if a child has had abusive behaviour modelled by their parents, aiui their likelihood of similar offending is increased. AIUI the same can be said for other tendencies, such as likelihood of divorce.

    Understanding causes is very important.

    Rather than the knee jerking populist reactions of certain people and pols (and I include my own MP in that, who is race-baiting), which will help solve nothing, we need a little more reflection.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    NYT - Breaking news: Simone Biles wins second all-around Olympic gymnastics gold

    SSI - Look for statement shortly from JD Vance, criticizing SB for "under-performing".

    I watched it. She was amazing.
    It is funny though. Simone Biles is not jaw-dropping like Olga Korbut or Nadia Comaneci were back in the day; she is just the GOAT; it seems to come so easily to her.
    Ooo not sure I agree with that. That floor routine for example. Not at her absolute best today perhaps but still a clear winning margin.
    What are you disagreeing with? I said Simone Biles is the greatest of all time.
    The 'not jaw dropping' bit.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    He's been great. Such a fighter. So many brilliant matches. And in the time of the Fed, Nadal and Djokovic.
    Underrated. From 2012 through 2017 (before the injuries) he was totally Big4 along with those 3. And in 2016 he was the best. In that year a 2nd Wimbo won easily, successfully defended Olympic gold, Tour Finals, World #1.

    Always been a fan. The greatest ever Brit (or Scot if you like) solo sportsman.
    Not sure I'd go that far! He was very good, but the best ever in any solo sport? Just in tennis, I'd counterpropose Fred Perry. In any solo sport ever - good question, but I'd go for Phil Taylor. Various middle distance runners from.the 80s also get a nod. Who else?
    Ronnie o Sullivan for pure talent.
    Yes good call. I have Murray higher but only because tennis > snooker.
    No!!!!
    Tennis players only have one ball to keep track of.
    Snooker is just really, really hard. Have you tried it? I can play tennis. I don't kid myself that I could beat Andy Murray, but I can have an enjoyable game with the similarly amateurish.
    But snooker? The tables are HUGE! Even getting the ball to the other end of the table legallyis a challenge.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    NYT - Breaking news: Simone Biles wins second all-around Olympic gymnastics gold

    SSI - Look for statement shortly from JD Vance, criticizing SB for "under-performing".

    To br fait to Vance, I think he was (very reasonably, in my view) criticising a culture which praised victimhood over success.
    And I did think it peculiar that she seemed to get mote plaudits for pulling out than for winning. Sympathy, sure. But it went beyond that.
    But it was an odd time.
    Sorry, but personally think that line of argument is a vat of feret piss.

    IMHO, Vance is a 24/7/365+leapday asshole. And am pretty sure I am NOT alone.

    Worst VP pick since Andy Johnson.
    That last paragraph may be true, but I still think the amount of praise Simone Biles got for pulling out was daft.
    Do you think that was for/because of reason cited by the Barefoot Boy from Silicone Valley in dumping on Simone Biles?

    That is, because people - including fellow athletes and other serious sporting types - simply wanted to burnish their Woke credentials, thus furthering the Decline of the West?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Personally think that Jeff the Snail rightly and richly deserves to be honored as Great British Sporting Personality of the Year.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    British men’s tennis is in better shape now than for a long time, but we remain to see if Jack Draper really is the new Murray (I think he could win a slam or several in the next ten years, now we are moving finally into the post big three era).
    Alcaraz and Sinner will be collecting most of the slams for the next few years, I think. Esp Alcaraz. He's already better than anyone we've ever seen imo and is still only 21. He's an absolute freak.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited August 1
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The BBC maybe should not have paid Edwards when he was suspended but I don't see why that is connected to the licence fee debate.

    Personally I would keep the licence fee but share it amongst multiple broadcasters on freeview for cultural, arts, historical, scientific and serious documentary programmes and some major international sports events. The BBC could then fund its more populist programmes like Eastenders, Match of the Day and Strictly and Michael Mcintyre's shows via advertising
    Something in this. The BBC’s arts coverage is considerably worse than it was in the 1970s. It’s inconceivable, for example, that they would commission something like the complete TV Shakespeare that ran from 1978 until 1985.

    Those played out on Saturday evenings on BBC2, scheduled at the same time as Strictly. And I have no idea why so much licence fee should be allocated to that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited August 1
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average has Trump still ahead but by just 0.3% on 44.1% with Harris on 43.8% and Kennedy on 5.9%, Stein on 0.9% and West on 0.8%.
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-harris-vs-kennedy-vs-stein-vs-west

    After the convention and her VP pick Harris will likely take the lead but I would expect it to narrow again and be neck and neck by the end of September. Trump's sentencing will also be a factor as will US interest rates and inflation and the level of border crossings from Mexico over the next few months

    Only a couple of weeks ago you were confidently telling us what a mistake it would be to nominate Harris instead of Biden!

    Doesn't it ever occur to you that you don't actually know what's going to happen in the future?
    We will see in November, at present Harris is still polling significantly below the 51% Biden got in 2020 and is at best neck and neck in her honeymoon -period which will last until post the Democratic convention and her VP pick.

    I should also point out in July 1988 Michael Dukakis had a 17% lead over Bush 41 after the Democratic convention and John Kerry was also ahead of Bush 43 at the end of July 2004. Neither won
    https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/26/us/dukakis-lead-widens-according-to-new-poll.html
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    That BMX racing looks totally bonkers.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The BBC maybe should not have paid Edwards when he was suspended but I don't see why that is connected to the licence fee debate.

    Personally I would keep the licence fee but share it amongst multiple broadcasters on freeview for cultural, arts, historical, scientific and serious documentary programmes and some major international sports events. The BBC could then fund its more populist programmes like Eastenders, Match of the Day and Strictly and Michael Mcintyre's shows via advertising
    Something in this. The BBC’s arts coverage is considerably worse than it was in the 1970s. It’s inconceivable, for example, that they would commission something like the complete TV Shakespeare that ran from 1978 until 1985.
    They did do the hollow crown cycle, not that long ago.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Do we have any inkling of a motive regards this Stockport killer? His appearance in court suggests he had an agenda. Or just a pure sadist?

    How does his appearance in court suggest he had an agenda? (Genuine question - I didn't get any sense of that from the reports)

    Suspect this might be key:
    tlg86 said:

    From the BBC:

    When arguing that the judge should impose reporting restrictions preventing Rudakubana's identification, the prosecution said the suspect had an “autism spectrum disorder diagnosis”, and that he had been “unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time”.

    The judge allowed Rudakubana's name to be made public, saying "the balance clearly comes down in favour of the public interest".

    No grand narrative. Just a young man not coping with the world, with tragic consequences.
    It matches with the descriptions from the village that no one saw him, though they did see his parents.

    Perhaps lockdown at a critical stage of social development was a factor, though certainly isn't an excuse.
    Perhaps if people stopped trying to make excuses for evil bastards and instead told them they are evil bastards instead of handing them excuses "Its not you fault because you (came from a broken family/were in lockdown at a certain period/ too poor/ etc) delete as applicable"
    How would that have worked before this lad came to unfortunate prominence? Do you possess unerring evil bastard radar?
    When I was growing up bad people were bad people no excuses, we didnt have these sort of incidents nearly as frequently, the more people make exuses for these acts about why the bad guy did it the more we seem to get of them. Sorry if thats blunt but its also true
    How old are you? Because when I was growing up we absolutely had vile people who committed vile crimes.

    When I was a kid my town was bombed the day before Mothers Day, and two kids shopping for Mothers Day gifts on Bridge Street were murdered in the explosion. One of the victims was only 3 years old. That's just one incident close to home, there's plenty of more that I'm sure everyone could relate from their own childhood unfortunately.

    We've sadly always had plenty of evil bastards down the years in this country. Nowadays we have 24/7 news and social media to really bring home the evil when it happens, but its always been there. I don't think there's anything to say its worse now than it ever was.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    kinabalu said:

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    British men’s tennis is in better shape now than for a long time, but we remain to see if Jack Draper really is the new Murray (I think he could win a slam or several in the next ten years, now we are moving finally into the post big three era).
    Alcaraz and Sinner will be collecting most of the slams for the next few years, I think. Esp Alcaraz. He's already better than anyone we've ever seen imo and is still only 21. He's an absolute freak.
    I think that’s overstating the case for Alcaraz. Is he better already than Nadal on clay or Federer?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128

    Cookie said:

    NYT - Breaking news: Simone Biles wins second all-around Olympic gymnastics gold

    SSI - Look for statement shortly from JD Vance, criticizing SB for "under-performing".

    To br fait to Vance, I think he was (very reasonably, in my view) criticising a culture which praised victimhood over success.
    And I did think it peculiar that she seemed to get mote plaudits for pulling out than for winning. Sympathy, sure. But it went beyond that.
    But it was an odd time.
    Sorry, but personally think that line of argument is a vat of feret piss.

    IMHO, Vance is a 24/7/365+leapday asshole. And am pretty sure I am NOT alone.

    Worst VP pick since Andy Johnson.
    Vance has to choose between keeping stum and everyone suspecting he's a twat, or speaking out and everyone knowing he's a twat.

    Unfortunately for JD, he has hundreds of public transcripts of his thoughts already published.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    kinabalu said:

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    British men’s tennis is in better shape now than for a long time, but we remain to see if Jack Draper really is the new Murray (I think he could win a slam or several in the next ten years, now we are moving finally into the post big three era).
    Alcaraz and Sinner will be collecting most of the slams for the next few years, I think. Esp Alcaraz. He's already better than anyone we've ever seen imo and is still only 21. He's an absolute freak.
    Alcaraz is great, but I think Federer was better. He really was tennis’s GOAT.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    He's been great. Such a fighter. So many brilliant matches. And in the time of the Fed, Nadal and Djokovic.
    Underrated. From 2012 through 2017 (before the injuries) he was totally Big4 along with those 3. And in 2016 he was the best. In that year a 2nd Wimbo won easily, successfully defended Olympic gold, Tour Finals, World #1.

    Always been a fan. The greatest ever Brit (or Scot if you like) solo sportsman.
    Not sure I'd go that far! He was very good, but the best ever in any solo sport? Just in tennis, I'd counterpropose Fred Perry. In any solo sport ever - good question, but I'd go for Phil Taylor. Various middle distance runners from.the 80s also get a nod. Who else?
    Ronnie o Sullivan for pure talent.
    Yes good call. I have Murray higher but only because tennis > snooker.
    No!!!!
    Tennis players only have one ball to keep track of.
    Snooker is just really, really hard. Have you tried it? I can play tennis. I don't kid myself that I could beat Andy Murray, but I can have an enjoyable game with the similarly amateurish.
    But snooker? The tables are HUGE! Even getting the ball to the other end of the table legallyis a challenge.
    Yes, enormous skill required. Love the game. Its quirks, its intimacy, its sounds and smells. But tennis is top tier and £££ and global.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited August 1

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The BBC maybe should not have paid Edwards when he was suspended but I don't see why that is connected to the licence fee debate.

    Personally I would keep the licence fee but share it amongst multiple broadcasters on freeview for cultural, arts, historical, scientific and serious documentary programmes and some major international sports events. The BBC could then fund its more populist programmes like Eastenders, Match of the Day and Strictly and Michael Mcintyre's shows via advertising
    Something in this. The BBC’s arts coverage is considerably worse than it was in the 1970s. It’s inconceivable, for example, that they would commission something like the complete TV Shakespeare that ran from 1978 until 1985.

    Those played out on Saturday evenings on BBC2, scheduled at the same time as Strictly. And I have no idea why so much licence fee should be allocated to that.
    Indeed, they did a series about a decade ago 'The Hollow Crown' of Wars of the Roses Shakespeare plays with Jeremy Irons, Tom Hiddleston and Benedict Cumberbatch but nothng since. That is what the licence fee should fund not Strictly which is populist fare which via advertising and its high viewership could fund itself
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The BBC maybe should not have paid Edwards when he was suspended but I don't see why that is connected to the licence fee debate.

    Personally I would keep the licence fee but share it amongst multiple broadcasters on freeview for cultural, arts, historical, scientific and serious documentary programmes and some major international sports events. The BBC could then fund its more populist programmes like Eastenders, Match of the Day and Strictly and Michael Mcintyre's shows via advertising
    Something in this. The BBC’s arts coverage is considerably worse than it was in the 1970s. It’s inconceivable, for example, that they would commission something like the complete TV Shakespeare that ran from 1978 until 1985.
    They did do the hollow crown cycle, not that long ago.
    A pale shadow of the complete Shakespeare in terms of ambition and budget.
  • Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The fact that only over 50s nowadays really watch linear TV anymore and its not something people age into starting to do as they get older really ought to be all the reason we need to ditch the licence fee.

    Its an absurd 20th century anachronism.

    I've happily cancelled mine already as have millions of others. Up to the rest of you lot what you want to do with it now, none of my concern anymore.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    MattW said:

    FPT, as it's an important topic imo.

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Do we have any inkling of a motive regards this Stockport killer? His appearance in court suggests he had an agenda. Or just a pure sadist?

    How does his appearance in court suggest he had an agenda? (Genuine question - I didn't get any sense of that from the reports)

    Suspect this might be key:
    tlg86 said:

    From the BBC:

    When arguing that the judge should impose reporting restrictions preventing Rudakubana's identification, the prosecution said the suspect had an “autism spectrum disorder diagnosis”, and that he had been “unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time”.

    The judge allowed Rudakubana's name to be made public, saying "the balance clearly comes down in favour of the public interest".

    No grand narrative. Just a young man not coping with the world, with tragic consequences.
    It matches with the descriptions from the village that no one saw him, though they did see his parents.

    Perhaps lockdown at a critical stage of social development was a factor, though certainly isn't an excuse.
    Perhaps if people stopped trying to make excuses for evil bastards and instead told them they are evil bastards instead of handing them excuses "Its not you fault because you (came from a broken family/were in lockdown at a certain period/ too poor/ etc) delete as applicable"
    How would that have worked before this lad came to unfortunate prominence? Do you possess unerring evil bastard radar?
    When I was growing up bad people were bad people no excuses, we didnt have these sort of incidents nearly as frequently, the more people make exuses for these acts about why the bad guy did it the more we seem to get of them. Sorry if thats blunt but its also true
    What excuses were made for Rudakubana before his terrible act? You speak with such unerring certainty I assume you must know.
    I didn't say they were before but I am sure there will be plenty made now...oh he was abused, he grew up in poverty etc we should be lenient it was societies fault....just watch the guardian
    It's not really about excuses; it's about explanations in order to understand causes. And to learn how to prevent it happening again if we can find the cause. That is a different question to the individual's behaviour.

    "Lock him up and throw away the key" may get *him* out of society and give us satisfaction - but what about the catching the next one in advance if there is an identifiable cause?

    For this guy we don't know enough to understand causes. The only *potential* relevant context I can spot is that his parents came from Rwanda; did they go through the genocide as children? What has the impact been on him?

    Are there implications for PTSD refugees from places where killing, rape and torture are routine settling in Europe? We already know how our former servicemen can be impacted after leaving the military.

    One of my grandads was a wife-beater. He had been in the trenches in WW1 (PTSD etc), and also had Huntington's Chorea. Impulsive, unpredictable aggression and anger are behavioural symptoms of both. His wife did not manage it - basically just took his behaviour in a stoic fashion.

    My uncle also had the condition (my dad did not, and it does not skip generations), and was also impulsive and I think violent. I think that one thing which may have helped him manage *to an extent* was that he had a fairly ritualised life as a High Church Vicar, with a strong daily pattern.

    It does not condone the behaviour, however it does help explain, and potentially help manage it. Such behaviour, and conditions like that, impose significant trauma. And have an impact on following generations - for example if a child has had abusive behaviour modelled by their parents, aiui their likelihood of similar offending is increased. AIUI the same can be said for other tendencies, such as likelihood of divorce.

    Understanding causes is very important.

    Rather than the knee jerking populist reactions of certain people and pols (and I include my own MP in that, who is race-baiting), which will help solve nothing, we need a little more reflection.
    Your thoughtful piece though has me reflecting that importing war-traumatised people from the third world might have negative consequences for us.
    Though of course we still no nothing about the motivations in this particular case.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    edited August 1
    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    I believe that the only way the BBC will survive is by getting rid of the licence fee. The BBC has a collapsing share of the audience, and that completely undermines the rationale for the licence fee. i.e. Pay for the TV you watch. But keeping the licence fee prevents the BBC for making the sort of changes that might make it fit for the 21st century. So we end up with a service that is plainly not what it once was, with fewer and fewer viewers (and hardly any young people), and a fee that rankles many and a huge number of people evade.

    Every time the licence fee is saved it simply kicks the can further down the road and makes it more likely that the BBC will wither away.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Do we have any inkling of a motive regards this Stockport killer? His appearance in court suggests he had an agenda. Or just a pure sadist?

    How does his appearance in court suggest he had an agenda? (Genuine question - I didn't get any sense of that from the reports)

    Suspect this might be key:
    tlg86 said:

    From the BBC:

    When arguing that the judge should impose reporting restrictions preventing Rudakubana's identification, the prosecution said the suspect had an “autism spectrum disorder diagnosis”, and that he had been “unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time”.

    The judge allowed Rudakubana's name to be made public, saying "the balance clearly comes down in favour of the public interest".

    No grand narrative. Just a young man not coping with the world, with tragic consequences.
    It matches with the descriptions from the village that no one saw him, though they did see his parents.

    Perhaps lockdown at a critical stage of social development was a factor, though certainly isn't an excuse.
    Perhaps if people stopped trying to make excuses for evil bastards and instead told them they are evil bastards instead of handing them excuses "Its not you fault because you (came from a broken family/were in lockdown at a certain period/ too poor/ etc) delete as applicable"
    How would that have worked before this lad came to unfortunate prominence? Do you possess unerring evil bastard radar?
    When I was growing up bad people were bad people no excuses, we didnt have these sort of incidents nearly as frequently, the more people make exuses for these acts about why the bad guy did it the more we seem to get of them. Sorry if thats blunt but its also true
    How old are you? Because when I was growing up we absolutely had vile people who committed vile crimes.

    When I was a kid my town was bombed the day before Mothers Day, and two kids shopping for Mothers Day gifts on Bridge Street were murdered in the explosion. One of the victims was only 3 years old. That's just one incident close to home, there's plenty of more that I'm sure everyone could relate from their own childhood unfortunately.

    We've sadly always had plenty of evil bastards down the years in this country. Nowadays we have 24/7 news and social media to really bring home the evil when it happens, but its always been there. I don't think there's anything to say its worse now than it ever was.
    Yeah, but in those days the Prime Minister didn't ennoble people who celebrated those acts.

    (Sorry. That one just really sickens me. And I'm struggling to let it go.)
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    That BMX racing looks totally bonkers.

    It’s the one Olympic sport that’s got my 10 year old daughter properly gripped. It’s just so aesthetically satisfying. The wave form in human movement.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    TimS said:

    That BMX racing looks totally bonkers.

    It’s the one Olympic sport that’s got my 10 year old daughter properly gripped. It’s just so aesthetically satisfying. The wave form in human movement.
    It's fun, isn't it? I can't help wishing it went on for a bit longer though.
    Reminds me of the snowboarding racing in the winter olympics.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average has Trump still ahead but by just 0.3% on 44.1% with Harris on 43.8% and Kennedy on 5.9%, Stein on 0.9% and West on 0.8%.
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-harris-vs-kennedy-vs-stein-vs-west

    After the convention and her VP pick Harris will likely take the lead but I would expect it to narrow again and be neck and neck by the end of September. Trump's sentencing will also be a factor as will US interest rates and inflation and the level of border crossings from Mexico over the next few months

    Only a couple of weeks ago you were confidently telling us what a mistake it would be to nominate Harris instead of Biden!

    Doesn't it ever occur to you that you don't actually know what's going to happen in the future?
    We will see in November, at present Harris is still polling significantly below the 51% Biden got in 2020 and is at best neck and neck in her honeymoon -period which will last until post the Democratic convention and her VP pick.

    I should also point out in July 1988 Michael Dukakis had a 17% lead over Bush 41 after the Democratic convention and John Kerry was also ahead of Bush 43 at the end of July 2004. Neither won
    https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/26/us/dukakis-lead-widens-according-to-new-poll.html
    So you're saying that challengers poll ratings are often overstated relative to the incumbent party.

    I guess that's another reason to pile on Harris.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    Carnyx said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Foxy said:

    Bottom right looks as if he knows how to deal with a pussy grabber.

    He's a chonky boy. 10/10 would pet.

    On topic, I think Mayor Pete stands head and shoulders above the other potential candidates in terms of his intellect and ability to handle the media, but I don't think he'll get it, on account of his sexuality. Suspect Kamala will go for the Ming Vase strategy and pick someone like Mark Kelly. All American, astronaut, hard to dislike the guy. Hawkish on migration, so will bring something to the ticket.
    She's a full-figured lady, actually. Not sure I would put my hands anywhere near her without permission.

    "Kamala Harris should go full cat lady and choose my darling Patsy. We’re always hearing that the vice presidency is trivial and boring and hasn’t won a state since LBJ won Texas for JFK. Patsy would be perfect. Close to 50 percent of American households own at least one cat—that’s a huge voting bloc entirely neglected until now."

    https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/kamala-harris-vice-president-veepstakes/
    I think that's a mistake. POTUS Larry (unless he's too old) and Veep Kamala.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    He's been great. Such a fighter. So many brilliant matches. And in the time of the Fed, Nadal and Djokovic.
    Underrated. From 2012 through 2017 (before the injuries) he was totally Big4 along with those 3. And in 2016 he was the best. In that year a 2nd Wimbo won easily, successfully defended Olympic gold, Tour Finals, World #1.

    Always been a fan. The greatest ever Brit (or Scot if you like) solo sportsman.
    Not sure I'd go that far! He was very good, but the best ever in any solo sport? Just in tennis, I'd counterpropose Fred Perry. In any solo sport ever - good question, but I'd go for Phil Taylor. Various middle distance runners from.the 80s also get a nod. Who else?
    Has to be modern era sport. The quality is infinitely better now. So we can't have Perry. Iconic shirts though.

    The Power? Yes a GOAT and a half. But in darts.

    To rival Murray I suppose you could float the likes of Coe and Redgrave, Olympian types, but that is not bigtime fulltime professional top tier sport like Tennis is.

    There's a case - albeit quite a weak one - for Nick Faldo.
    What about Lewis Hamilton?
    Ah yes. Definitely worth inclusion. For me, no because F1 is narrow and elitist and involves a car (although I do like F1) but yes he has to be in the conversation.

    And on those lines, subbing horses for cars, Lester Piggott.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    FPT, as it's an important topic imo.

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Do we have any inkling of a motive regards this Stockport killer? His appearance in court suggests he had an agenda. Or just a pure sadist?

    How does his appearance in court suggest he had an agenda? (Genuine question - I didn't get any sense of that from the reports)

    Suspect this might be key:
    tlg86 said:

    From the BBC:

    When arguing that the judge should impose reporting restrictions preventing Rudakubana's identification, the prosecution said the suspect had an “autism spectrum disorder diagnosis”, and that he had been “unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time”.

    The judge allowed Rudakubana's name to be made public, saying "the balance clearly comes down in favour of the public interest".

    No grand narrative. Just a young man not coping with the world, with tragic consequences.
    It matches with the descriptions from the village that no one saw him, though they did see his parents.

    Perhaps lockdown at a critical stage of social development was a factor, though certainly isn't an excuse.
    Perhaps if people stopped trying to make excuses for evil bastards and instead told them they are evil bastards instead of handing them excuses "Its not you fault because you (came from a broken family/were in lockdown at a certain period/ too poor/ etc) delete as applicable"
    How would that have worked before this lad came to unfortunate prominence? Do you possess unerring evil bastard radar?
    When I was growing up bad people were bad people no excuses, we didnt have these sort of incidents nearly as frequently, the more people make exuses for these acts about why the bad guy did it the more we seem to get of them. Sorry if thats blunt but its also true
    What excuses were made for Rudakubana before his terrible act? You speak with such unerring certainty I assume you must know.
    I didn't say they were before but I am sure there will be plenty made now...oh he was abused, he grew up in poverty etc we should be lenient it was societies fault....just watch the guardian
    It's not really about excuses; it's about explanations in order to understand causes. And to learn how to prevent it happening again if we can find the cause. That is a different question to the individual's behaviour.

    "Lock him up and throw away the key" may get *him* out of society and give us satisfaction - but what about the catching the next one in advance if there is an identifiable cause?

    For this guy we don't know enough to understand causes. The only *potential* relevant context I can spot is that his parents came from Rwanda; did they go through the genocide as children? What has the impact been on him?

    Are there implications for PTSD refugees from places where killing, rape and torture are routine settling in Europe? We already know how our former servicemen can be impacted after leaving the military.

    One of my grandads was a wife-beater. He had been in the trenches in WW1 (PTSD etc), and also had Huntington's Chorea. Impulsive, unpredictable aggression and anger are behavioural symptoms of both. His wife did not manage it - basically just took his behaviour in a stoic fashion.

    My uncle also had the condition (my dad did not, and it does not skip generations), and was also impulsive and I think violent. I think that one thing which may have helped him manage *to an extent* was that he had a fairly ritualised life as a High Church Vicar, with a strong daily pattern.

    It does not condone the behaviour, however it does help explain, and potentially help manage it. Such behaviour, and conditions like that, impose significant trauma. And have an impact on following generations - for example if a child has had abusive behaviour modelled by their parents, aiui their likelihood of similar offending is increased. AIUI the same can be said for other tendencies, such as likelihood of divorce.

    Understanding causes is very important.

    Rather than the knee jerking populist reactions of certain people and pols (and I include my own MP in that, who is race-baiting), which will help solve nothing, we need a little more reflection.
    Your thoughtful piece though has me reflecting that importing war-traumatised people from the third world might have negative consequences for us.
    Though of course we still no nothing about the motivations in this particular case.
    The perpetrator was second generation, born in wales, so we’re talking sins of the fathers at best. The genocide was 30 years ago. Equivalent to a 17 year old son of parents who left, say, Ukraine or Poland during the war, committing murder in Britain in the early 1970s.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    That BMX racing looks totally bonkers.

    It’s the one Olympic sport that’s got my 10 year old daughter properly gripped. It’s just so aesthetically satisfying. The wave form in human movement.
    It's fun, isn't it? I can't help wishing it went on for a bit longer though.
    Reminds me of the snowboarding racing in the winter olympics.
    Yes, too short. There needs to be a long form version (not mountain biking).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    NYT - Breaking news: Simone Biles wins second all-around Olympic gymnastics gold

    SSI - Look for statement shortly from JD Vance, criticizing SB for "under-performing".

    I watched it. She was amazing.
    It is funny though. Simone Biles is not jaw-dropping like Olga Korbut or Nadia Comaneci were back in the day; she is just the GOAT; it seems to come so easily to her.
    She's about 104 in gymnast years. Astonishing. She's the Jimmy Anderson of the sparkly leotard.
    Not really that old at 27. The era of the young teenage Eastern European is mostly done now, and gymnasts tend to have longer careers.
    The oldest winner of the all-round gold in 72 years.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,517

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The BBC maybe should not have paid Edwards when he was suspended but I don't see why that is connected to the licence fee debate.

    Personally I would keep the licence fee but share it amongst multiple broadcasters on freeview for cultural, arts, historical, scientific and serious documentary programmes and some major international sports events. The BBC could then fund its more populist programmes like Eastenders, Match of the Day and Strictly and Michael Mcintyre's shows via advertising
    Something in this. The BBC’s arts coverage is considerably worse than it was in the 1970s. It’s inconceivable, for example, that they would commission something like the complete TV Shakespeare that ran from 1978 until 1985.
    They did do the hollow crown cycle, not that long ago.
    A pale shadow of the complete Shakespeare in terms of ambition and budget.
    I disagree. I thought it extremely well done and it had a realism that the earlier complete shakespeare productions definitely lacked. The characters were portrayed as real people instead of being Actooooors on a stage.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    He's been great. Such a fighter. So many brilliant matches. And in the time of the Fed, Nadal and Djokovic.
    Underrated. From 2012 through 2017 (before the injuries) he was totally Big4 along with those 3. And in 2016 he was the best. In that year a 2nd Wimbo won easily, successfully defended Olympic gold, Tour Finals, World #1.

    Always been a fan. The greatest ever Brit (or Scot if you like) solo sportsman.
    Not sure I'd go that far! He was very good, but the best ever in any solo sport? Just in tennis, I'd counterpropose Fred Perry. In any solo sport ever - good question, but I'd go for Phil Taylor. Various middle distance runners from.the 80s also get a nod. Who else?
    Ronnie o Sullivan for pure talent.
    Yes good call. I have Murray higher but only because tennis > snooker.
    No!!!!
    Tennis players only have one ball to keep track of.
    Snooker is just really, really hard. Have you tried it? I can play tennis. I don't kid myself that I could beat Andy Murray, but I can have an enjoyable game with the similarly amateurish.
    But snooker? The tables are HUGE! Even getting the ball to the other end of the table legallyis a challenge.
    Yes, enormous skill required. Love the game. Its quirks, its intimacy, its sounds and smells. But tennis is top tier and £££ and global.
    Huh! There are many things that the perfidious hordes of abroaders haven't yet grasped the magnificence of. Their loss.

    I wonder how far down snooker you have to go to get to an equivalent of, say, the hundredth richest men's tennis player?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    FPT, as it's an important topic imo.

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Do we have any inkling of a motive regards this Stockport killer? His appearance in court suggests he had an agenda. Or just a pure sadist?

    How does his appearance in court suggest he had an agenda? (Genuine question - I didn't get any sense of that from the reports)

    Suspect this might be key:
    tlg86 said:

    From the BBC:

    When arguing that the judge should impose reporting restrictions preventing Rudakubana's identification, the prosecution said the suspect had an “autism spectrum disorder diagnosis”, and that he had been “unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time”.

    The judge allowed Rudakubana's name to be made public, saying "the balance clearly comes down in favour of the public interest".

    No grand narrative. Just a young man not coping with the world, with tragic consequences.
    It matches with the descriptions from the village that no one saw him, though they did see his parents.

    Perhaps lockdown at a critical stage of social development was a factor, though certainly isn't an excuse.
    Perhaps if people stopped trying to make excuses for evil bastards and instead told them they are evil bastards instead of handing them excuses "Its not you fault because you (came from a broken family/were in lockdown at a certain period/ too poor/ etc) delete as applicable"
    How would that have worked before this lad came to unfortunate prominence? Do you possess unerring evil bastard radar?
    When I was growing up bad people were bad people no excuses, we didnt have these sort of incidents nearly as frequently, the more people make exuses for these acts about why the bad guy did it the more we seem to get of them. Sorry if thats blunt but its also true
    What excuses were made for Rudakubana before his terrible act? You speak with such unerring certainty I assume you must know.
    I didn't say they were before but I am sure there will be plenty made now...oh he was abused, he grew up in poverty etc we should be lenient it was societies fault....just watch the guardian
    It's not really about excuses; it's about explanations in order to understand causes. And to learn how to prevent it happening again if we can find the cause. That is a different question to the individual's behaviour.

    "Lock him up and throw away the key" may get *him* out of society and give us satisfaction - but what about the catching the next one in advance if there is an identifiable cause?

    For this guy we don't know enough to understand causes. The only *potential* relevant context I can spot is that his parents came from Rwanda; did they go through the genocide as children? What has the impact been on him?

    Are there implications for PTSD refugees from places where killing, rape and torture are routine settling in Europe? We already know how our former servicemen can be impacted after leaving the military.

    One of my grandads was a wife-beater. He had been in the trenches in WW1 (PTSD etc), and also had Huntington's Chorea. Impulsive, unpredictable aggression and anger are behavioural symptoms of both. His wife did not manage it - basically just took his behaviour in a stoic fashion.

    My uncle also had the condition (my dad did not, and it does not skip generations), and was also impulsive and I think violent. I think that one thing which may have helped him manage *to an extent* was that he had a fairly ritualised life as a High Church Vicar, with a strong daily pattern.

    It does not condone the behaviour, however it does help explain, and potentially help manage it. Such behaviour, and conditions like that, impose significant trauma. And have an impact on following generations - for example if a child has had abusive behaviour modelled by their parents, aiui their likelihood of similar offending is increased. AIUI the same can be said for other tendencies, such as likelihood of divorce.

    Understanding causes is very important.

    Rather than the knee jerking populist reactions of certain people and pols (and I include my own MP in that, who is race-baiting), which will help solve nothing, we need a little more reflection.
    Your thoughtful piece though has me reflecting that importing war-traumatised people from the third world might have negative consequences for us.
    Though of course we still no nothing about the motivations in this particular case.
    People can be very damaged or very resilient to horror. I went to a very interesting series of local community theatre productions commemorating the 50th anniversary of the arrivals of the Ugandan Asians in Leicester. Some of the stories were quite horrific, and others very nostalgic. We hear of those that became influential entrepreneurs, but we hear less of those who became alcoholics or suicides.

    Trauma can cascade down the generations, but doesn't have to do so.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    FPT, as it's an important topic imo.

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Do we have any inkling of a motive regards this Stockport killer? His appearance in court suggests he had an agenda. Or just a pure sadist?

    How does his appearance in court suggest he had an agenda? (Genuine question - I didn't get any sense of that from the reports)

    Suspect this might be key:
    tlg86 said:

    From the BBC:

    When arguing that the judge should impose reporting restrictions preventing Rudakubana's identification, the prosecution said the suspect had an “autism spectrum disorder diagnosis”, and that he had been “unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time”.

    The judge allowed Rudakubana's name to be made public, saying "the balance clearly comes down in favour of the public interest".

    No grand narrative. Just a young man not coping with the world, with tragic consequences.
    It matches with the descriptions from the village that no one saw him, though they did see his parents.

    Perhaps lockdown at a critical stage of social development was a factor, though certainly isn't an excuse.
    Perhaps if people stopped trying to make excuses for evil bastards and instead told them they are evil bastards instead of handing them excuses "Its not you fault because you (came from a broken family/were in lockdown at a certain period/ too poor/ etc) delete as applicable"
    How would that have worked before this lad came to unfortunate prominence? Do you possess unerring evil bastard radar?
    When I was growing up bad people were bad people no excuses, we didnt have these sort of incidents nearly as frequently, the more people make exuses for these acts about why the bad guy did it the more we seem to get of them. Sorry if thats blunt but its also true
    What excuses were made for Rudakubana before his terrible act? You speak with such unerring certainty I assume you must know.
    I didn't say they were before but I am sure there will be plenty made now...oh he was abused, he grew up in poverty etc we should be lenient it was societies fault....just watch the guardian
    It's not really about excuses; it's about explanations in order to understand causes. And to learn how to prevent it happening again if we can find the cause. That is a different question to the individual's behaviour.

    "Lock him up and throw away the key" may get *him* out of society and give us satisfaction - but what about the catching the next one in advance if there is an identifiable cause?

    For this guy we don't know enough to understand causes. The only *potential* relevant context I can spot is that his parents came from Rwanda; did they go through the genocide as children? What has the impact been on him?

    Are there implications for PTSD refugees from places where killing, rape and torture are routine settling in Europe? We already know how our former servicemen can be impacted after leaving the military.

    One of my grandads was a wife-beater. He had been in the trenches in WW1 (PTSD etc), and also had Huntington's Chorea. Impulsive, unpredictable aggression and anger are behavioural symptoms of both. His wife did not manage it - basically just took his behaviour in a stoic fashion.

    My uncle also had the condition (my dad did not, and it does not skip generations), and was also impulsive and I think violent. I think that one thing which may have helped him manage *to an extent* was that he had a fairly ritualised life as a High Church Vicar, with a strong daily pattern.

    It does not condone the behaviour, however it does help explain, and potentially help manage it. Such behaviour, and conditions like that, impose significant trauma. And have an impact on following generations - for example if a child has had abusive behaviour modelled by their parents, aiui their likelihood of similar offending is increased. AIUI the same can be said for other tendencies, such as likelihood of divorce.

    Understanding causes is very important.

    Rather than the knee jerking populist reactions of certain people and pols (and I include my own MP in that, who is race-baiting), which will help solve nothing, we need a little more reflection.
    Your thoughtful piece though has me reflecting that importing war-traumatised people from the third world might have negative consequences for us.
    Though of course we still no nothing about the motivations in this particular case.
    The perpetrator was second generation, born in wales, so we’re talking sins of the fathers at best. The genocide was 30 years ago. Equivalent to a 17 year old son of parents who left, say, Ukraine or Poland during the war, committing murder in Britain in the early 1970s.
    Well yes, but if as MattW suggests his violence stems from his family.coming from a war zone...
    As I said, we don't know the motives. I was just struck that my reaction to Matt's piece was to conclude probably the opposite of what he intended.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The BBC maybe should not have paid Edwards when he was suspended but I don't see why that is connected to the licence fee debate.

    Personally I would keep the licence fee but share it amongst multiple broadcasters on freeview for cultural, arts, historical, scientific and serious documentary programmes and some major international sports events. The BBC could then fund its more populist programmes like Eastenders, Match of the Day and Strictly and Michael Mcintyre's shows via advertising
    Something in this. The BBC’s arts coverage is considerably worse than it was in the 1970s. It’s inconceivable, for example, that they would commission something like the complete TV Shakespeare that ran from 1978 until 1985.

    Those played out on Saturday evenings on BBC2, scheduled at the same time as Strictly. And I have no idea why so much licence fee should be allocated to that.
    Strictly's format has been sold all over the world, although it is generally known as Dancing with the Stars. It has made the BBC a lot of money.
  • HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average has Trump still ahead but by just 0.3% on 44.1% with Harris on 43.8% and Kennedy on 5.9%, Stein on 0.9% and West on 0.8%.
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-harris-vs-kennedy-vs-stein-vs-west

    After the convention and her VP pick Harris will likely take the lead but I would expect it to narrow again and be neck and neck by the end of September. Trump's sentencing will also be a factor as will US interest rates and inflation and the level of border crossings from Mexico over the next few months

    Only a couple of weeks ago you were confidently telling us what a mistake it would be to nominate Harris instead of Biden!

    Doesn't it ever occur to you that you don't actually know what's going to happen in the future?
    We will see in November, at present Harris is still polling significantly below the 51% Biden got in 2020 and is at best neck and neck in her honeymoon -period which will last until post the Democratic convention and her VP pick.

    I should also point out in July 1988 Michael Dukakis had a 17% lead over Bush 41 after the Democratic convention and John Kerry was also ahead of Bush 43 at the end of July 2004. Neither won
    https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/26/us/dukakis-lead-widens-according-to-new-poll.html
    You are wasting your breath.

    The majority of posters over here seem to have decided.

    If you are right then once this all reaches its peak you should get some decent odds on Trump.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889


    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average has Trump still ahead but by just 0.3% on 44.1% with Harris on 43.8% and Kennedy on 5.9%, Stein on 0.9% and West on 0.8%.
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-harris-vs-kennedy-vs-stein-vs-west

    After the convention and her VP pick Harris will likely take the lead but I would expect it to narrow again and be neck and neck by the end of September. Trump's sentencing will also be a factor as will US interest rates and inflation and the level of border crossings from Mexico over the next few months

    Only a couple of weeks ago you were confidently telling us what a mistake it would be to nominate Harris instead of Biden!

    Doesn't it ever occur to you that you don't actually know what's going to happen in the future?
    We will see in November, at present Harris is still polling significantly below the 51% Biden got in 2020 and is at best neck and neck in her honeymoon -period which will last until post the Democratic convention and her VP pick.

    I should also point out in July 1988 Michael Dukakis had a 17% lead over Bush 41 after the Democratic convention and John Kerry was also ahead of Bush 43 at the end of July 2004. Neither won
    https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/26/us/dukakis-lead-widens-according-to-new-poll.html
    You are wasting your breath.

    The majority of posters over here seem to have decided.

    If you are right then once this all reaches its peak you should get some decent odds on Trump.
    I stlll think it could go either way but yes certainly those who think is is done and dusted for Harris are being very complacent at this stage
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Do we have any inkling of a motive regards this Stockport killer? His appearance in court suggests he had an agenda. Or just a pure sadist?

    How does his appearance in court suggest he had an agenda? (Genuine question - I didn't get any sense of that from the reports)

    Suspect this might be key:
    tlg86 said:

    From the BBC:

    When arguing that the judge should impose reporting restrictions preventing Rudakubana's identification, the prosecution said the suspect had an “autism spectrum disorder diagnosis”, and that he had been “unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time”.

    The judge allowed Rudakubana's name to be made public, saying "the balance clearly comes down in favour of the public interest".

    No grand narrative. Just a young man not coping with the world, with tragic consequences.
    It matches with the descriptions from the village that no one saw him, though they did see his parents.

    Perhaps lockdown at a critical stage of social development was a factor, though certainly isn't an excuse.
    Perhaps if people stopped trying to make excuses for evil bastards and instead told them they are evil bastards instead of handing them excuses "Its not you fault because you (came from a broken family/were in lockdown at a certain period/ too poor/ etc) delete as applicable"
    How would that have worked before this lad came to unfortunate prominence? Do you possess unerring evil bastard radar?
    When I was growing up bad people were bad people no excuses, we didnt have these sort of incidents nearly as frequently, the more people make exuses for these acts about why the bad guy did it the more we seem to get of them. Sorry if thats blunt but its also true
    How old are you? Because when I was growing up we absolutely had vile people who committed vile crimes.

    When I was a kid my town was bombed the day before Mothers Day, and two kids shopping for Mothers Day gifts on Bridge Street were murdered in the explosion. One of the victims was only 3 years old. That's just one incident close to home, there's plenty of more that I'm sure everyone could relate from their own childhood unfortunately.

    We've sadly always had plenty of evil bastards down the years in this country. Nowadays we have 24/7 news and social media to really bring home the evil when it happens, but its always been there. I don't think there's anything to say its worse now than it ever was.
    I was on holiday as a kid in NI, overnight in Belfast, when the bombing campaign kicked off.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The fact that only over 50s nowadays really watch linear TV anymore and its not something people age into starting to do as they get older really ought to be all the reason we need to ditch the licence fee.

    Its an absurd 20th century anachronism.

    I've happily cancelled mine already as have millions of others. Up to the rest of you lot what you want to do with it now, none of my concern anymore.
    Love Island might disagree!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The BBC maybe should not have paid Edwards when he was suspended but I don't see why that is connected to the licence fee debate.

    Personally I would keep the licence fee but share it amongst multiple broadcasters on freeview for cultural, arts, historical, scientific and serious documentary programmes and some major international sports events. The BBC could then fund its more populist programmes like Eastenders, Match of the Day and Strictly and Michael Mcintyre's shows via advertising
    Something in this. The BBC’s arts coverage is considerably worse than it was in the 1970s. It’s inconceivable, for example, that they would commission something like the complete TV Shakespeare that ran from 1978 until 1985.
    They did do the hollow crown cycle, not that long ago.
    A pale shadow of the complete Shakespeare in terms of ambition and budget.
    I disagree. I thought it extremely well done and it had a realism that the earlier complete shakespeare productions definitely lacked. The characters were portrayed as real people instead of being Actooooors on a stage.
    Sadly, I thought the Hollow Crown a serious disappointment.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865

    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The fact that only over 50s nowadays really watch linear TV anymore and its not something people age into starting to do as they get older really ought to be all the reason we need to ditch the licence fee.

    Its an absurd 20th century anachronism.

    I've happily cancelled mine already as have millions of others. Up to the rest of you lot what you want to do with it now, none of my concern anymore.
    Oh do keep up. Even the mighty Netflix is flirting with a return to scheduled broadcasts.

    Incidentally, you need a television licence for any live broadcasts, so if you are watching the Olympics on Discovery+ then it's time to cough up.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129


    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average has Trump still ahead but by just 0.3% on 44.1% with Harris on 43.8% and Kennedy on 5.9%, Stein on 0.9% and West on 0.8%.
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-harris-vs-kennedy-vs-stein-vs-west

    After the convention and her VP pick Harris will likely take the lead but I would expect it to narrow again and be neck and neck by the end of September. Trump's sentencing will also be a factor as will US interest rates and inflation and the level of border crossings from Mexico over the next few months

    Only a couple of weeks ago you were confidently telling us what a mistake it would be to nominate Harris instead of Biden!

    Doesn't it ever occur to you that you don't actually know what's going to happen in the future?
    We will see in November, at present Harris is still polling significantly below the 51% Biden got in 2020 and is at best neck and neck in her honeymoon -period which will last until post the Democratic convention and her VP pick.

    I should also point out in July 1988 Michael Dukakis had a 17% lead over Bush 41 after the Democratic convention and John Kerry was also ahead of Bush 43 at the end of July 2004. Neither won
    https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/26/us/dukakis-lead-widens-according-to-new-poll.html
    You are wasting your breath.

    The majority of posters over here seem to have decided.

    If you are right then once this all reaches its peak you should get some decent odds on Trump.
    Oh puh'lease.

    I think Trump is slight favourite, because wages have risen less quickly than prices in the last four years.

    We tease @HYUFD because he seems to think Dukakis performance in 1988 makes this election a forgone conclusion.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    kinabalu said:

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    British men’s tennis is in better shape now than for a long time, but we remain to see if Jack Draper really is the new Murray (I think he could win a slam or several in the next ten years, now we are moving finally into the post big three era).
    Alcaraz and Sinner will be collecting most of the slams for the next few years, I think. Esp Alcaraz. He's already better than anyone we've ever seen imo and is still only 21. He's an absolute freak.
    Alcaraz is great, but I think Federer was better. He really was tennis’s GOAT.
    It's undeniably Novak on the stats but yes I know what you mean. Roger in flow was sublime.

    Alcaraz is only 21 though, remember. To me he's got the Fed hand eye shot making magic + the Nadal strength and monster forehand + Djoko movement and he's (probably) far from peaked.

    Health and desire permitting, 20 plus slams.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,321
    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    He's been great. Such a fighter. So many brilliant matches. And in the time of the Fed, Nadal and Djokovic.
    Underrated. From 2012 through 2017 (before the injuries) he was totally Big4 along with those 3. And in 2016 he was the best. In that year a 2nd Wimbo won easily, successfully defended Olympic gold, Tour Finals, World #1.

    Always been a fan. The greatest ever Brit (or Scot if you like) solo sportsman.
    Not sure I'd go that far! He was very good, but the best ever in any solo sport? Just in tennis, I'd counterpropose Fred Perry. In any solo sport ever - good question, but I'd go for Phil Taylor. Various middle distance runners from.the 80s also get a nod. Who else?
    Has to be modern era sport. The quality is infinitely better now. So we can't have Perry. Iconic shirts though.

    The Power? Yes a GOAT and a half. But in darts.

    To rival Murray I suppose you could float the likes of Coe and Redgrave, Olympian types, but that is not bigtime fulltime professional top tier sport like Tennis is.

    There's a case - albeit quite a weak one - for Nick Faldo.
    What about Lewis Hamilton?
    Ah yes. Definitely worth inclusion. For me, no because F1 is narrow and elitist and involves a car (although I do like F1) but yes he has to be in the conversation.

    And on those lines, subbing horses for cars, Lester Piggott.
    Piggott was undoubtedly the best British sportsman of my lifetime, but he is generally left out of the discussion because few liked him.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    A rather knee jerk reaction.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    If it can be played in a pub then it isn’t a sport.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814

    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The fact that only over 50s nowadays really watch linear TV anymore
    I'm 48 :lol:
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494

    If it can be played in a pub then it isn’t a sport.

    If you need different shoes then it's a sport
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    edited August 1
    I see Lee Anderson has been exposed for a being a twat who inflamed racial tensions.

    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/lee-andersons-illegal-immigrants-post-spectacularly-backfires-380136/amp/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    "Chinese swimming world record ‘not humanly possible’ says Australian coach

    Olympian Hawke adds to suspicions around rival nation by questioning teenager Pan’s remarkable performance in 100 metres freestyle"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2024/08/01/chinese-world-record-pan-zhanle-splashing-doping-row-coach/
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The BBC maybe should not have paid Edwards when he was suspended but I don't see why that is connected to the licence fee debate.

    Personally I would keep the licence fee but share it amongst multiple broadcasters on freeview for cultural, arts, historical, scientific and serious documentary programmes and some major international sports events. The BBC could then fund its more populist programmes like Eastenders, Match of the Day and Strictly and Michael Mcintyre's shows via advertising
    Something in this. The BBC’s arts coverage is considerably worse than it was in the 1970s. It’s inconceivable, for example, that they would commission something like the complete TV Shakespeare that ran from 1978 until 1985.
    They did do the hollow crown cycle, not that long ago.
    A pale shadow of the complete Shakespeare in terms of ambition and budget.
    I disagree. I thought it extremely well done and it had a realism that the earlier complete shakespeare productions definitely lacked. The characters were portrayed as real people instead of being Actooooors on a stage.
    "You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon!"
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019
    edited August 1
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The fact that only over 50s nowadays really watch linear TV anymore and its not something people age into starting to do as they get older really ought to be all the reason we need to ditch the licence fee.

    Its an absurd 20th century anachronism.

    I've happily cancelled mine already as have millions of others. Up to the rest of you lot what you want to do with it now, none of my concern anymore.
    Love Island might disagree!
    There are some numbers on that - of the 7 million or so 16-24 year olds, the 2024-07-16 episode of Love Island managed to pick up approx 279,000 of them between broadcast and +7 days. This was the highest rated episode that week, the highest rated show on commercial TV for that age group, and that number covers live and time shifted/on demand viewers in the home on a TV set. They'll be some more on phones etc, but I doubt it's missing enough to even get it to 10% of that demo.

    (Here - but you'll need to fiddle with the filters to get those details)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    Andy_JS said:

    "Chinese swimming world record ‘not humanly possible’ says Australian coach

    Olympian Hawke adds to suspicions around rival nation by questioning teenager Pan’s remarkable performance in 100 metres freestyle"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2024/08/01/chinese-world-record-pan-zhanle-splashing-doping-row-coach/

    An odd phrase unless a cyborg is suspected. If he thinks they are on performance enhancing drugs he should say so.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    rcs1000 said:


    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average has Trump still ahead but by just 0.3% on 44.1% with Harris on 43.8% and Kennedy on 5.9%, Stein on 0.9% and West on 0.8%.
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-harris-vs-kennedy-vs-stein-vs-west

    After the convention and her VP pick Harris will likely take the lead but I would expect it to narrow again and be neck and neck by the end of September. Trump's sentencing will also be a factor as will US interest rates and inflation and the level of border crossings from Mexico over the next few months

    Only a couple of weeks ago you were confidently telling us what a mistake it would be to nominate Harris instead of Biden!

    Doesn't it ever occur to you that you don't actually know what's going to happen in the future?
    We will see in November, at present Harris is still polling significantly below the 51% Biden got in 2020 and is at best neck and neck in her honeymoon -period which will last until post the Democratic convention and her VP pick.

    I should also point out in July 1988 Michael Dukakis had a 17% lead over Bush 41 after the Democratic convention and John Kerry was also ahead of Bush 43 at the end of July 2004. Neither won
    https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/26/us/dukakis-lead-widens-according-to-new-poll.html
    You are wasting your breath.

    The majority of posters over here seem to have decided.

    If you are right then once this all reaches its peak you should get some decent odds on Trump.
    Oh puh'lease.

    I think Trump is slight favourite, because wages have risen less quickly than prices in the last four years.

    We tease @HYUFD because he seems to think Dukakis performance in 1988 makes this election a forgone conclusion.
    We tease him because it’s a ridiculous comparison.

    Dukakis was a laudable technocrat, who was blindsided by a smear campaign.

    That kind of politicking is old news, against which Democrats are immunised by experience. And this time they’re up against a mentally fragile gerentocrat, whose shtick grew old some years ago,
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited August 1
    dixiedean said:

    MattW said:

    FPT, as it's an important topic imo.

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Do we have any inkling of a motive regards this Stockport killer? His appearance in court suggests he had an agenda. Or just a pure sadist?

    How does his appearance in court suggest he had an agenda? (Genuine question - I didn't get any sense of that from the reports)

    Suspect this might be key:
    tlg86 said:

    From the BBC:

    When arguing that the judge should impose reporting restrictions preventing Rudakubana's identification, the prosecution said the suspect had an “autism spectrum disorder diagnosis”, and that he had been “unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time”.

    The judge allowed Rudakubana's name to be made public, saying "the balance clearly comes down in favour of the public interest".

    No grand narrative. Just a young man not coping with the world, with tragic consequences.
    It matches with the descriptions from the village that no one saw him, though they did see his parents.

    Perhaps lockdown at a critical stage of social development was a factor, though certainly isn't an excuse.
    Perhaps if people stopped trying to make excuses for evil bastards and instead told them they are evil bastards instead of handing them excuses "Its not you fault because you (came from a broken family/were in lockdown at a certain period/ too poor/ etc) delete as applicable"
    How would that have worked before this lad came to unfortunate prominence? Do you possess unerring evil bastard radar?
    When I was growing up bad people were bad people no excuses, we didnt have these sort of incidents nearly as frequently, the more people make exuses for these acts about why the bad guy did it the more we seem to get of them. Sorry if thats blunt but its also true
    What excuses were made for Rudakubana before his terrible act? You speak with such unerring certainty I assume you must know.
    I didn't say they were before but I am sure there will be plenty made now...oh he was abused, he grew up in poverty etc we should be lenient it was societies fault....just watch the guardian
    It's not really about excuses; it's about explanations in order to understand causes. And to learn how to prevent it happening again if we can find the cause. That is a different question to the individual's behaviour.

    "Lock him up and throw away the key" may get *him* out of society and give us satisfaction - but what about the catching the next one in advance if there is an identifiable cause?

    For this guy we don't know enough to understand causes. The only *potential* relevant context I can spot is that his parents came from Rwanda; did they go through the genocide as children? What has the impact been on him?

    Are there implications for PTSD refugees from places where killing, rape and torture are routine settling in Europe? We already know how our former servicemen can be impacted after leaving the military.

    One of my grandads was a wife-beater. He had been in the trenches in WW1 (PTSD etc), and also had Huntington's Chorea. Impulsive, unpredictable aggression and anger are behavioural symptoms of both. His wife did not manage it - basically just took his behaviour in a stoic fashion.

    My uncle also had the condition (my dad did not, and it does not skip generations), and was also impulsive and I think violent. I think that one thing which may have helped him manage *to an extent* was that he had a fairly ritualised life as a High Church Vicar, with a strong daily pattern.

    It does not condone the behaviour, however it does help explain, and potentially help manage it. Such behaviour, and conditions like that, impose significant trauma. And have an impact on following generations - for example if a child has had abusive behaviour modelled by their parents, aiui their likelihood of similar offending is increased. AIUI the same can be said for other tendencies, such as likelihood of divorce.

    Understanding causes is very important.

    Rather than the knee jerking populist reactions of certain people and pols (and I include my own MP in that, who is race-baiting), which will help solve nothing, we need a little more reflection.
    Some mention of ASD on the previous thread. I refrained from comment, but will mention 2 things right now.
    ASD is a SPECTRUM DISORDER. The two words are very important. There is no such thing as "high functioning". That's not a diagnosis, that's shorthand. Really high functioning autistic people lack the disorder criterion. So you wouldn't know they were autistic unless told. Sheldon Cooper and Rain Man have a lot to answer for. High functioning usually refers to can read and write, dress and eat. That's moderate.
    Moreover. There's PDA and ODD. They are clusters on the spectrum which are symptomatically completely atypical.
    The behaviour of the suspect. (Not speaking to parents) suggests that CYPS is in an even more shambolic state than anyone imagined. They are symptoms not of ASD, but of clinical depression, possibly psychosis. I expect a serious case review. We really need to take SEN and Mental Health more seriously. It's an emergency. Yet another example of cost savings being more expensive in the long run. Not least for the victims.
    On trauma.
    Recent advances in epigenetics show trauma is not only inherited, but can be healed by actually changing DNA. Having parents who presumably experienced genocide ought to be a red flag. We need to keep that in mind when we consider refugee integration. There really isn't any trauma informed treatment. That's not a bleeding heart. It's neuroscience.
    But we don't give a fuck about any of that in this country. We just expect everyone to put their big boy pants on and cope.
    One thing I wonder about on refugee integration is the impact of Angela Merkel's Syria refugee policies a generation on.

    Watching my dad go through the process of whether to have a test for the Huntington's Gene was agonising. No good questions, and only a 50% chance of a good answer; a very high stakes decision.

    You get yes - you know your mind may disintegrate at some point in the future, and you may emotionally or physically abuse those you love, and your children then face the same question.

    You get no - and you and your children are clear.

    You decide "no test", and you get 10, 20 or 30 years of life without the disease hanging over you if you have it, and 10, 20 or 30 years of not knowing if you don't. And your children don't know, and may resent your decision.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    British men’s tennis is in better shape now than for a long time, but we remain to see if Jack Draper really is the new Murray (I think he could win a slam or several in the next ten years, now we are moving finally into the post big three era).
    Alcaraz and Sinner will be collecting most of the slams for the next few years, I think. Esp Alcaraz. He's already better than anyone we've ever seen imo and is still only 21. He's an absolute freak.
    Alcaraz is great, but I think Federer was better. He really was tennis’s GOAT.
    It's undeniably Novak on the stats but yes I know what you mean. Roger in flow was sublime.

    Alcaraz is only 21 though, remember. To me he's got the Fed hand eye shot making magic + the Nadal strength and monster forehand + Djoko movement and he's (probably) far from peaked.

    Health and desire permitting, 20 plus slams.
    And no one really to test him, which is diminishing.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    spudgfsh said:

    If it can be played in a pub then it isn’t a sport.

    If you need different shoes then it's a sport
    Did somebody say shoes?

    Does horizontal jogging count as a sport then ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    He's been great. Such a fighter. So many brilliant matches. And in the time of the Fed, Nadal and Djokovic.
    Underrated. From 2012 through 2017 (before the injuries) he was totally Big4 along with those 3. And in 2016 he was the best. In that year a 2nd Wimbo won easily, successfully defended Olympic gold, Tour Finals, World #1.

    Always been a fan. The greatest ever Brit (or Scot if you like) solo sportsman.
    Not sure I'd go that far! He was very good, but the best ever in any solo sport? Just in tennis, I'd counterpropose Fred Perry. In any solo sport ever - good question, but I'd go for Phil Taylor. Various middle distance runners from.the 80s also get a nod. Who else?
    Has to be modern era sport. The quality is infinitely better now. So we can't have Perry. Iconic shirts though.

    The Power? Yes a GOAT and a half. But in darts.

    To rival Murray I suppose you could float the likes of Coe and Redgrave, Olympian types, but that is not bigtime fulltime professional top tier sport like Tennis is.

    There's a case - albeit quite a weak one - for Nick Faldo.
    What about Lewis Hamilton?
    Ah yes. Definitely worth inclusion. For me, no because F1 is narrow and elitist and involves a car (although I do like F1) but yes he has to be in the conversation.

    And on those lines, subbing horses for cars, Lester Piggott.
    Piggott was undoubtedly the best British sportsman of my lifetime, but he is generally left out of the discussion because few liked him.
    And it's a sport in decline (sadly).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    edited August 1
    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    MattW said:

    FPT, as it's an important topic imo.

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Do we have any inkling of a motive regards this Stockport killer? His appearance in court suggests he had an agenda. Or just a pure sadist?

    How does his appearance in court suggest he had an agenda? (Genuine question - I didn't get any sense of that from the reports)

    Suspect this might be key:
    tlg86 said:

    From the BBC:

    When arguing that the judge should impose reporting restrictions preventing Rudakubana's identification, the prosecution said the suspect had an “autism spectrum disorder diagnosis”, and that he had been “unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time”.

    The judge allowed Rudakubana's name to be made public, saying "the balance clearly comes down in favour of the public interest".

    No grand narrative. Just a young man not coping with the world, with tragic consequences.
    It matches with the descriptions from the village that no one saw him, though they did see his parents.

    Perhaps lockdown at a critical stage of social development was a factor, though certainly isn't an excuse.
    Perhaps if people stopped trying to make excuses for evil bastards and instead told them they are evil bastards instead of handing them excuses "Its not you fault because you (came from a broken family/were in lockdown at a certain period/ too poor/ etc) delete as applicable"
    How would that have worked before this lad came to unfortunate prominence? Do you possess unerring evil bastard radar?
    When I was growing up bad people were bad people no excuses, we didnt have these sort of incidents nearly as frequently, the more people make exuses for these acts about why the bad guy did it the more we seem to get of them. Sorry if thats blunt but its also true
    What excuses were made for Rudakubana before his terrible act? You speak with such unerring certainty I assume you must know.
    I didn't say they were before but I am sure there will be plenty made now...oh he was abused, he grew up in poverty etc we should be lenient it was societies fault....just watch the guardian
    It's not really about excuses; it's about explanations in order to understand causes. And to learn how to prevent it happening again if we can find the cause. That is a different question to the individual's behaviour.

    "Lock him up and throw away the key" may get *him* out of society and give us satisfaction - but what about the catching the next one in advance if there is an identifiable cause?

    For this guy we don't know enough to understand causes. The only *potential* relevant context I can spot is that his parents came from Rwanda; did they go through the genocide as children? What has the impact been on him?

    Are there implications for PTSD refugees from places where killing, rape and torture are routine settling in Europe? We already know how our former servicemen can be impacted after leaving the military.

    One of my grandads was a wife-beater. He had been in the trenches in WW1 (PTSD etc), and also had Huntington's Chorea. Impulsive, unpredictable aggression and anger are behavioural symptoms of both. His wife did not manage it - basically just took his behaviour in a stoic fashion.

    My uncle also had the condition (my dad did not, and it does not skip generations), and was also impulsive and I think violent. I think that one thing which may have helped him manage *to an extent* was that he had a fairly ritualised life as a High Church Vicar, with a strong daily pattern.

    It does not condone the behaviour, however it does help explain, and potentially help manage it. Such behaviour, and conditions like that, impose significant trauma. And have an impact on following generations - for example if a child has had abusive behaviour modelled by their parents, aiui their likelihood of similar offending is increased. AIUI the same can be said for other tendencies, such as likelihood of divorce.

    Understanding causes is very important.

    Rather than the knee jerking populist reactions of certain people and pols (and I include my own MP in that, who is race-baiting), which will help solve nothing, we need a little more reflection.
    Some mention of ASD on the previous thread. I refrained from comment, but will mention 2 things right now.
    ASD is a SPECTRUM DISORDER. The two words are very important. There is no such thing as "high functioning". That's not a diagnosis, that's shorthand. Really high functioning autistic people lack the disorder criterion. So you wouldn't know they were autistic unless told. Sheldon Cooper and Rain Man have a lot to answer for. High functioning usually refers to can read and write, dress and eat. That's moderate.
    Moreover. There's PDA and ODD. They are clusters on the spectrum which are symptomatically completely atypical.
    The behaviour of the suspect. (Not speaking to parents) suggests that CYPS is in an even more shambolic state than anyone imagined. They are symptoms not of ASD, but of clinical depression, possibly psychosis. I expect a serious case review. We really need to take SEN and Mental Health more seriously. It's an emergency. Yet another example of cost savings being more expensive in the long run. Not least for the victims.
    On trauma.
    Recent advances in epigenetics show trauma is not only inherited, but can be healed by actually changing DNA. Having parents who presumably experienced genocide ought to be a red flag. We need to keep that in mind when we consider refugee integration. There really isn't any trauma informed treatment. That's not a bleeding heart. It's neuroscience.
    But we don't give a fuck about any of that in this country. We just expect everyone to put their big boy pants on and cope.
    One thing I wonder about on refugee integration is the impact of Angela Merkel's Syria refugee policies a generation on.

    Watching my dad go through the process of whether to have a test for the Huntington's Gene was agonising. No good questions, and only a 50% chance of a good answer; a very high stakes decision.

    You get yes - you know your mind may disintegrate at some point in the future, and you may emotionally or physically abuse those you love, and your children then face the same question.

    You get no - and you and your children are clear.

    You decide "no test", and you get 10, 20 or 30 years of life without the disease hanging over you if you have it, and 10, 20 or 30 years of not knowing if you don't. And your children don't know, and may resent your decision.
    ISTR a goodly part of the Alice's Restaurant movie was about that very question. My profound sympathy.
    But inherited trauma. We know it can be healed. Hence some flourish, some sink. Increasingly, we know how to.
    But, as a nation we're not interested. Especially in the one size fits all, exam driven education system.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    Scott_xP said:

    @andy_murray

    Never even liked tennis anyway.

    Andy does have a very dry sense of humour
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061

    If it can be played in a pub then it isn’t a sport.

    Decent sized pub:

    Boxing; wrestling; taekwondo; judo; weightlifting; fencing; … darts.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412

    Andy_JS said:

    "Chinese swimming world record ‘not humanly possible’ says Australian coach

    Olympian Hawke adds to suspicions around rival nation by questioning teenager Pan’s remarkable performance in 100 metres freestyle"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2024/08/01/chinese-world-record-pan-zhanle-splashing-doping-row-coach/

    An odd phrase unless a cyborg is suspected. If he thinks they are on performance enhancing drugs he should say so.
    They're doped up to the eyeballs.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098


    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average has Trump still ahead but by just 0.3% on 44.1% with Harris on 43.8% and Kennedy on 5.9%, Stein on 0.9% and West on 0.8%.
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-harris-vs-kennedy-vs-stein-vs-west

    After the convention and her VP pick Harris will likely take the lead but I would expect it to narrow again and be neck and neck by the end of September. Trump's sentencing will also be a factor as will US interest rates and inflation and the level of border crossings from Mexico over the next few months

    Only a couple of weeks ago you were confidently telling us what a mistake it would be to nominate Harris instead of Biden!

    Doesn't it ever occur to you that you don't actually know what's going to happen in the future?
    We will see in November, at present Harris is still polling significantly below the 51% Biden got in 2020 and is at best neck and neck in her honeymoon -period which will last until post the Democratic convention and her VP pick.

    I should also point out in July 1988 Michael Dukakis had a 17% lead over Bush 41 after the Democratic convention and John Kerry was also ahead of Bush 43 at the end of July 2004. Neither won
    https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/26/us/dukakis-lead-widens-according-to-new-poll.html
    You are wasting your breath.

    The majority of posters over here seem to have decided.

    If you are right then once this all reaches its peak you should get some decent odds on Trump.
    There's only me and a handful of others who make Harris favourite. Most think Trump or a coin toss.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited August 1
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:


    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average has Trump still ahead but by just 0.3% on 44.1% with Harris on 43.8% and Kennedy on 5.9%, Stein on 0.9% and West on 0.8%.
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-harris-vs-kennedy-vs-stein-vs-west

    After the convention and her VP pick Harris will likely take the lead but I would expect it to narrow again and be neck and neck by the end of September. Trump's sentencing will also be a factor as will US interest rates and inflation and the level of border crossings from Mexico over the next few months

    Only a couple of weeks ago you were confidently telling us what a mistake it would be to nominate Harris instead of Biden!

    Doesn't it ever occur to you that you don't actually know what's going to happen in the future?
    We will see in November, at present Harris is still polling significantly below the 51% Biden got in 2020 and is at best neck and neck in her honeymoon -period which will last until post the Democratic convention and her VP pick.

    I should also point out in July 1988 Michael Dukakis had a 17% lead over Bush 41 after the Democratic convention and John Kerry was also ahead of Bush 43 at the end of July 2004. Neither won
    https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/26/us/dukakis-lead-widens-according-to-new-poll.html
    You are wasting your breath.

    The majority of posters over here seem to have decided.

    If you are right then once this all reaches its peak you should get some decent odds on Trump.
    Oh puh'lease.

    I think Trump is slight favourite, because wages have risen less quickly than prices in the last four years.

    We tease @HYUFD because he seems to think Dukakis performance in 1988 makes this election a forgone conclusion.
    We tease him because it’s a ridiculous comparison.

    Dukakis was a laudable technocrat, who was blindsided by a smear campaign.

    That kind of politicking is old news, against which Democrats are immunised by experience. And this time they’re up against a mentally fragile gerentocrat, whose shtick grew old some years ago,
    First Trump attack ads on Harris now going out focusing on her failure to control the Mexican border when given that task by Biden
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVgkf1nutQI
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    Andy_JS said:

    "Chinese swimming world record ‘not humanly possible’ says Australian coach

    Olympian Hawke adds to suspicions around rival nation by questioning teenager Pan’s remarkable performance in 100 metres freestyle"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2024/08/01/chinese-world-record-pan-zhanle-splashing-doping-row-coach/

    An odd phrase unless a cyborg is suspected. If he thinks they are on performance enhancing drugs he should say so.
    They're doped up to the eyeballs.

    Andy_JS said:

    "Chinese swimming world record ‘not humanly possible’ says Australian coach

    Olympian Hawke adds to suspicions around rival nation by questioning teenager Pan’s remarkable performance in 100 metres freestyle"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2024/08/01/chinese-world-record-pan-zhanle-splashing-doping-row-coach/

    An odd phrase unless a cyborg is suspected. If he thinks they are on performance enhancing drugs he should say so.
    They're doped up to the eyeballs.
    Seems unlikely in the modern testing era.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412

    Andy_JS said:

    "Chinese swimming world record ‘not humanly possible’ says Australian coach

    Olympian Hawke adds to suspicions around rival nation by questioning teenager Pan’s remarkable performance in 100 metres freestyle"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2024/08/01/chinese-world-record-pan-zhanle-splashing-doping-row-coach/

    An odd phrase unless a cyborg is suspected. If he thinks they are on performance enhancing drugs he should say so.
    They're doped up to the eyeballs.

    Andy_JS said:

    "Chinese swimming world record ‘not humanly possible’ says Australian coach

    Olympian Hawke adds to suspicions around rival nation by questioning teenager Pan’s remarkable performance in 100 metres freestyle"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2024/08/01/chinese-world-record-pan-zhanle-splashing-doping-row-coach/

    An odd phrase unless a cyborg is suspected. If he thinks they are on performance enhancing drugs he should say so.
    They're doped up to the eyeballs.
    Seems unlikely in the modern testing era.
    The testing gets more rigorous as the doping gets more sophisticated. Which one is ahead at any given time is a matter for debate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    Foss said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The fact that only over 50s nowadays really watch linear TV anymore and its not something people age into starting to do as they get older really ought to be all the reason we need to ditch the licence fee.

    Its an absurd 20th century anachronism.

    I've happily cancelled mine already as have millions of others. Up to the rest of you lot what you want to do with it now, none of my concern anymore.
    Love Island might disagree!
    There are some numbers on that - of the 7 million or so 16-24 year olds, the 2024-07-16 episode of Love Island managed to pick up approx 279,000 of them between broadcast and +7 days. This was the highest rated episode that week, the highest rated show on commercial TV for that age group, and that number covers live and time shifted/on demand viewers in the home on a TV set. They'll be some more on phones etc, but I doubt it's missing enough to even get it to 10% of that demo.

    (Here - but you'll need to fiddle with the filters to get those details)
    You can watch much of it on Youtube too of course and of course amongst those aged 4 to 15 55% still watch traditional TV each week, so hardly nothing even if down

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgm9z1dpkpo
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    kjh said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Do we have any inkling of a motive regards this Stockport killer? His appearance in court suggests he had an agenda. Or just a pure sadist?

    How does his appearance in court suggest he had an agenda? (Genuine question - I didn't get any sense of that from the reports)

    Suspect this might be key:
    tlg86 said:

    From the BBC:

    When arguing that the judge should impose reporting restrictions preventing Rudakubana's identification, the prosecution said the suspect had an “autism spectrum disorder diagnosis”, and that he had been “unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time”.

    The judge allowed Rudakubana's name to be made public, saying "the balance clearly comes down in favour of the public interest".

    No grand narrative. Just a young man not coping with the world, with tragic consequences.
    It matches with the descriptions from the village that no one saw him, though they did see his parents.

    Perhaps lockdown at a critical stage of social development was a factor, though certainly isn't an excuse.
    Perhaps if people stopped trying to make excuses for evil bastards and instead told them they are evil bastards instead of handing them excuses "Its not you fault because you (came from a broken family/were in lockdown at a certain period/ too poor/ etc) delete as applicable"
    How would that have worked before this lad came to unfortunate prominence? Do you possess unerring evil bastard radar?
    When I was growing up bad people were bad people no excuses, we didnt have these sort of incidents nearly as frequently, the more people make exuses for these acts about why the bad guy did it the more we seem to get of them. Sorry if thats blunt but its also true
    How old are you? Because when I was growing up we absolutely had vile people who committed vile crimes.

    When I was a kid my town was bombed the day before Mothers Day, and two kids shopping for Mothers Day gifts on Bridge Street were murdered in the explosion. One of the victims was only 3 years old. That's just one incident close to home, there's plenty of more that I'm sure everyone could relate from their own childhood unfortunately.

    We've sadly always had plenty of evil bastards down the years in this country. Nowadays we have 24/7 news and social media to really bring home the evil when it happens, but its always been there. I don't think there's anything to say its worse now than it ever was.
    We had this discussion the other day. Things are much safer now than in the past. I have lived through the riots in which PC Blacklock was murdered and nearly decapitated in a riot, IRA bombings where I lived both at University and at home (Manchester and Guildford) and where many died, football hooligans, skinheads, NF, etc. Saturday night was not a safe night for a young man in a city when I was a teenager. Really people do have a rosy view of the past.
    Yeah. Three times I was cleared out of a Central London area in three years at University because of a credible bomb threat.
    Only once did it go off.
    When was the last time that happened?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,243

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    He's been great. Such a fighter. So many brilliant matches. And in the time of the Fed, Nadal and Djokovic.
    Underrated. From 2012 through 2017 (before the injuries) he was totally Big4 along with those 3. And in 2016 he was the best. In that year a 2nd Wimbo won easily, successfully defended Olympic gold, Tour Finals, World #1.

    Always been a fan. The greatest ever Brit (or Scot if you like) solo sportsman.
    Not sure I'd go that far! He was very good, but the best ever in any solo sport? Just in tennis, I'd counterpropose Fred Perry. In any solo sport ever - good question, but I'd go for Phil Taylor. Various middle distance runners from.the 80s also get a nod. Who else?
    Has to be modern era sport. The quality is infinitely better now. So we can't have Perry. Iconic shirts though.

    The Power? Yes a GOAT and a half. But in darts.

    To rival Murray I suppose you could float the likes of Coe and Redgrave, Olympian types, but that is not bigtime fulltime professional top tier sport like Tennis is.

    There's a case - albeit quite a weak one - for Nick Faldo.
    What about Lewis Hamilton?
    Ah yes. Definitely worth inclusion. For me, no because F1 is narrow and elitist and involves a car (although I do like F1) but yes he has to be in the conversation.

    And on those lines, subbing horses for cars, Lester Piggott.
    Piggott was undoubtedly the best British sportsman of my lifetime, but he is generally left out of the discussion because few liked him.
    Wasn't Piggott a 'convicted felon' (as we say round here)?

    I mention this with a heavy heart because one of the first successful bets I ever made was Aegean Blue at Chester in 1966, which Lester steered home comfortably at 22-1. It was a particularly memorable day because the Moors Murder trial was ongoing at Chester Castle at the same time and as I made my way home I caught a glimpse of Ian Brady in a black maria on his way back to gaol. The 1960s were certainly interesting (but I wouldn't vote to go back there).
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 202
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Can anyone explain why the media keeps talking about the EDL (English Defence League) which was disbanded 10 years ago?

    I've referred to EDL on here. It's just shorthand for a number of far-right racist groups that have splintered in recent years, but most have some association with Tommy Robinson. Not all EDL members are aware that it is defunct, as they tend not be be very bright.
    If you'd prefer, I'll refer to Britain First in the future.
    There's one with "Patriot" - or "Patriotic" - in the name too. Forget the exact formulation.
    It's a bit like countries called "democratic" or "peoples", these patriots are mostly people who hate their fellow countrymen.
    They are an alternative to patriots.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:


    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average has Trump still ahead but by just 0.3% on 44.1% with Harris on 43.8% and Kennedy on 5.9%, Stein on 0.9% and West on 0.8%.
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-harris-vs-kennedy-vs-stein-vs-west

    After the convention and her VP pick Harris will likely take the lead but I would expect it to narrow again and be neck and neck by the end of September. Trump's sentencing will also be a factor as will US interest rates and inflation and the level of border crossings from Mexico over the next few months

    Only a couple of weeks ago you were confidently telling us what a mistake it would be to nominate Harris instead of Biden!

    Doesn't it ever occur to you that you don't actually know what's going to happen in the future?
    We will see in November, at present Harris is still polling significantly below the 51% Biden got in 2020 and is at best neck and neck in her honeymoon -period which will last until post the Democratic convention and her VP pick.

    I should also point out in July 1988 Michael Dukakis had a 17% lead over Bush 41 after the Democratic convention and John Kerry was also ahead of Bush 43 at the end of July 2004. Neither won
    https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/26/us/dukakis-lead-widens-according-to-new-poll.html
    You are wasting your breath.

    The majority of posters over here seem to have decided.

    If you are right then once this all reaches its peak you should get some decent odds on Trump.
    Oh puh'lease.

    I think Trump is slight favourite, because wages have risen less quickly than prices in the last four years.

    We tease @HYUFD because he seems to think Dukakis performance in 1988 makes this election a forgone conclusion.
    We tease him because it’s a ridiculous comparison.

    Dukakis was a laudable technocrat, who was blindsided by a smear campaign.

    That kind of politicking is old news, against which Democrats are immunised by experience. And this time they’re up against a mentally fragile gerentocrat, whose shtick grew old some years ago,
    You also can’t compare polling from 1988 to polling now. Completely different beasts.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    British men’s tennis is in better shape now than for a long time, but we remain to see if Jack Draper really is the new Murray (I think he could win a slam or several in the next ten years, now we are moving finally into the post big three era).
    Alcaraz and Sinner will be collecting most of the slams for the next few years, I think. Esp Alcaraz. He's already better than anyone we've ever seen imo and is still only 21. He's an absolute freak.
    Alcaraz is great, but I think Federer was better. He really was tennis’s GOAT.
    It's undeniably Novak on the stats but yes I know what you mean. Roger in flow was sublime.

    Alcaraz is only 21 though, remember. To me he's got the Fed hand eye shot making magic + the Nadal strength and monster forehand + Djoko movement and he's (probably) far from peaked.

    Health and desire permitting, 20 plus slams.
    And no one really to test him, which is diminishing.
    I'm hoping Sinner (at least on hard court) will make a Big 2. You need rivalries.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    edited August 1
    kinabalu said:


    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average has Trump still ahead but by just 0.3% on 44.1% with Harris on 43.8% and Kennedy on 5.9%, Stein on 0.9% and West on 0.8%.
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-harris-vs-kennedy-vs-stein-vs-west

    After the convention and her VP pick Harris will likely take the lead but I would expect it to narrow again and be neck and neck by the end of September. Trump's sentencing will also be a factor as will US interest rates and inflation and the level of border crossings from Mexico over the next few months

    Only a couple of weeks ago you were confidently telling us what a mistake it would be to nominate Harris instead of Biden!

    Doesn't it ever occur to you that you don't actually know what's going to happen in the future?
    We will see in November, at present Harris is still polling significantly below the 51% Biden got in 2020 and is at best neck and neck in her honeymoon -period which will last until post the Democratic convention and her VP pick.

    I should also point out in July 1988 Michael Dukakis had a 17% lead over Bush 41 after the Democratic convention and John Kerry was also ahead of Bush 43 at the end of July 2004. Neither won
    https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/26/us/dukakis-lead-widens-according-to-new-poll.html
    You are wasting your breath.

    The majority of posters over here seem to have decided.

    If you are right then once this all reaches its peak you should get some decent odds on Trump.
    There's only me and a handful of others who make Harris favourite. Most think Trump or a coin toss.
    Currently it’s still a coin toss for me, but the lie of the land feels like its starting to favour Harris when the dice actually fall.

    But I’d like to see where we are in September because I’ve been burned already in this race, expecting Biden to have still been in it and performing much better vs Trump). All I can say at the moment is Harris feels like very good value, though less good as time goes by.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited August 1
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    FPT, as it's an important topic imo.

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Do we have any inkling of a motive regards this Stockport killer? His appearance in court suggests he had an agenda. Or just a pure sadist?

    How does his appearance in court suggest he had an agenda? (Genuine question - I didn't get any sense of that from the reports)

    Suspect this might be key:
    tlg86 said:

    From the BBC:

    When arguing that the judge should impose reporting restrictions preventing Rudakubana's identification, the prosecution said the suspect had an “autism spectrum disorder diagnosis”, and that he had been “unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time”.

    The judge allowed Rudakubana's name to be made public, saying "the balance clearly comes down in favour of the public interest".

    No grand narrative. Just a young man not coping with the world, with tragic consequences.
    It matches with the descriptions from the village that no one saw him, though they did see his parents.

    Perhaps lockdown at a critical stage of social development was a factor, though certainly isn't an excuse.
    Perhaps if people stopped trying to make excuses for evil bastards and instead told them they are evil bastards instead of handing them excuses "Its not you fault because you (came from a broken family/were in lockdown at a certain period/ too poor/ etc) delete as applicable"
    How would that have worked before this lad came to unfortunate prominence? Do you possess unerring evil bastard radar?
    When I was growing up bad people were bad people no excuses, we didnt have these sort of incidents nearly as frequently, the more people make exuses for these acts about why the bad guy did it the more we seem to get of them. Sorry if thats blunt but its also true
    What excuses were made for Rudakubana before his terrible act? You speak with such unerring certainty I assume you must know.
    I didn't say they were before but I am sure there will be plenty made now...oh he was abused, he grew up in poverty etc we should be lenient it was societies fault....just watch the guardian
    It's not really about excuses; it's about explanations in order to understand causes. And to learn how to prevent it happening again if we can find the cause. That is a different question to the individual's behaviour.

    "Lock him up and throw away the key" may get *him* out of society and give us satisfaction - but what about the catching the next one in advance if there is an identifiable cause?

    For this guy we don't know enough to understand causes. The only *potential* relevant context I can spot is that his parents came from Rwanda; did they go through the genocide as children? What has the impact been on him?

    Are there implications for PTSD refugees from places where killing, rape and torture are routine settling in Europe? We already know how our former servicemen can be impacted after leaving the military.

    One of my grandads was a wife-beater. He had been in the trenches in WW1 (PTSD etc), and also had Huntington's Chorea. Impulsive, unpredictable aggression and anger are behavioural symptoms of both. His wife did not manage it - basically just took his behaviour in a stoic fashion.

    My uncle also had the condition (my dad did not, and it does not skip generations), and was also impulsive and I think violent. I think that one thing which may have helped him manage *to an extent* was that he had a fairly ritualised life as a High Church Vicar, with a strong daily pattern.

    It does not condone the behaviour, however it does help explain, and potentially help manage it. Such behaviour, and conditions like that, impose significant trauma. And have an impact on following generations - for example if a child has had abusive behaviour modelled by their parents, aiui their likelihood of similar offending is increased. AIUI the same can be said for other tendencies, such as likelihood of divorce.

    Understanding causes is very important.

    Rather than the knee jerking populist reactions of certain people and pols (and I include my own MP in that, who is race-baiting), which will help solve nothing, we need a little more reflection.
    Your thoughtful piece though has me reflecting that importing war-traumatised people from the third world might have negative consequences for us.
    Though of course we still no nothing about the motivations in this particular case.
    The perpetrator was second generation, born in wales, so we’re talking sins of the fathers at best. The genocide was 30 years ago. Equivalent to a 17 year old son of parents who left, say, Ukraine or Poland during the war, committing murder in Britain in the early 1970s.
    Well yes, but if as MattW suggests his violence stems from his family.coming from a war zone...
    As I said, we don't know the motives. I was just struck that my reaction to Matt's piece was to conclude probably the opposite of what he intended.
    I didn't aim to suggest particular conclusions, just to suggest that in addition to the individual behaviour, it may be more than "bad person", and that to deal with it we need to understand the context - which is why I went for a term "causes" for the crime, rather than "reasons", which for me relates more to individual "motivation".

    Fortunately we have experts for that type of evaluation, and Judges who are there to ... make a Judgement. I wouldn't like to have to do it.

    I think in some way it also comes back into debates around the new Prisons Minister and the possibility of rehabilitation. I'm pleased that he is a practitioner of rehabilitation, not a theorist, and has the experience to make nuanced decisions. I'm sure that in dealing with hundreds of ex-cons over decades, he has had many failures, which are the ones that will teach him the lessons. I'm a huge fan of Hoary Old Gits who have been round the block 76 times, if they are still reflecting and learning; Hoary Old Git is in my thumbnail definition of "where to get planning advice".

    Consider the Dutch Olympic competitor who is a convicted rapist. He could have been locked up for life at £50-60k a year cost to society increasing with inflation for decades, but is now seemingly rehabilitated and a productive member of society.

    Which is the better option of the many available, and the appropriate balance between the options?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:


    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average has Trump still ahead but by just 0.3% on 44.1% with Harris on 43.8% and Kennedy on 5.9%, Stein on 0.9% and West on 0.8%.
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-harris-vs-kennedy-vs-stein-vs-west

    After the convention and her VP pick Harris will likely take the lead but I would expect it to narrow again and be neck and neck by the end of September. Trump's sentencing will also be a factor as will US interest rates and inflation and the level of border crossings from Mexico over the next few months

    Only a couple of weeks ago you were confidently telling us what a mistake it would be to nominate Harris instead of Biden!

    Doesn't it ever occur to you that you don't actually know what's going to happen in the future?
    We will see in November, at present Harris is still polling significantly below the 51% Biden got in 2020 and is at best neck and neck in her honeymoon -period which will last until post the Democratic convention and her VP pick.

    I should also point out in July 1988 Michael Dukakis had a 17% lead over Bush 41 after the Democratic convention and John Kerry was also ahead of Bush 43 at the end of July 2004. Neither won
    https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/26/us/dukakis-lead-widens-according-to-new-poll.html
    You are wasting your breath.

    The majority of posters over here seem to have decided.

    If you are right then once this all reaches its peak you should get some decent odds on Trump.
    Oh puh'lease.

    I think Trump is slight favourite, because wages have risen less quickly than prices in the last four years.

    We tease @HYUFD because he seems to think Dukakis performance in 1988 makes this election a forgone conclusion.
    We tease him because it’s a ridiculous comparison.

    Dukakis was a laudable technocrat, who was blindsided by a smear campaign.

    That kind of politicking is old news, against which Democrats are immunised by experience. And this time they’re up against a mentally fragile gerentocrat, whose shtick grew old some years ago,
    First Trump attack ads on Harris now going out focusing on her failure to control the Mexican border when given that task by Biden
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVgkf1nutQI
    That’s pretty belated stuff.
    Already pre-empted.
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1818414386362409091
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782
    kjh said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Do we have any inkling of a motive regards this Stockport killer? His appearance in court suggests he had an agenda. Or just a pure sadist?

    How does his appearance in court suggest he had an agenda? (Genuine question - I didn't get any sense of that from the reports)

    Suspect this might be key:
    tlg86 said:

    From the BBC:

    When arguing that the judge should impose reporting restrictions preventing Rudakubana's identification, the prosecution said the suspect had an “autism spectrum disorder diagnosis”, and that he had been “unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time”.

    The judge allowed Rudakubana's name to be made public, saying "the balance clearly comes down in favour of the public interest".

    No grand narrative. Just a young man not coping with the world, with tragic consequences.
    It matches with the descriptions from the village that no one saw him, though they did see his parents.

    Perhaps lockdown at a critical stage of social development was a factor, though certainly isn't an excuse.
    Perhaps if people stopped trying to make excuses for evil bastards and instead told them they are evil bastards instead of handing them excuses "Its not you fault because you (came from a broken family/were in lockdown at a certain period/ too poor/ etc) delete as applicable"
    How would that have worked before this lad came to unfortunate prominence? Do you possess unerring evil bastard radar?
    When I was growing up bad people were bad people no excuses, we didnt have these sort of incidents nearly as frequently, the more people make exuses for these acts about why the bad guy did it the more we seem to get of them. Sorry if thats blunt but its also true
    How old are you? Because when I was growing up we absolutely had vile people who committed vile crimes.

    You are right @BartholomewRoberts. When I was a kid my town was bombed the day before Mothers Day, and two kids shopping for Mothers Day gifts on Bridge Street were murdered in the explosion. One of the victims was only 3 years old. That's just one incident close to home, there's plenty of more that I'm sure everyone could relate from their own childhood unfortunately.

    We've sadly always had plenty of evil bastards down the years in this country. Nowadays we have 24/7 news and social media to really bring home the evil when it happens, but its always been there. I don't think there's anything to say its worse now than it ever was.
    We had this discussion the other day. Things are much safer now than in the past. I have lived through the riots in which PC Blacklock was murdered and nearly decapitated in a riot, IRA bombings where I lived both at University and at home (Manchester and Guildford) and where many died, football hooligans, skinheads, NF, etc. Saturday night was not a safe night for a young man in a city when I was a teenager. Really people do have a rosy view of the past.
    Sorry @BartholomewRoberts - I went to edit my post to make it clear I agreed with you but for some reason I appear to have added my comment to your post and not mine. Incompetence on my part.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    That BMX racing looks totally bonkers.

    It’s the one Olympic sport that’s got my 10 year old daughter properly gripped. It’s just so aesthetically satisfying. The wave form in human movement.
    It's fun, isn't it? I can't help wishing it went on for a bit longer though.
    Reminds me of the snowboarding racing in the winter olympics.
    Every time I flick the Olympics on, it’s swimming. Utterly dull. I missed the BMX which sounds great.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,321

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Scotland's Andy Murray crashes out of the Olympics and that's the end of his career.

    What a career he has had, I will miss him.

    He's been great. Such a fighter. So many brilliant matches. And in the time of the Fed, Nadal and Djokovic.
    Underrated. From 2012 through 2017 (before the injuries) he was totally Big4 along with those 3. And in 2016 he was the best. In that year a 2nd Wimbo won easily, successfully defended Olympic gold, Tour Finals, World #1.

    Always been a fan. The greatest ever Brit (or Scot if you like) solo sportsman.
    Not sure I'd go that far! He was very good, but the best ever in any solo sport? Just in tennis, I'd counterpropose Fred Perry. In any solo sport ever - good question, but I'd go for Phil Taylor. Various middle distance runners from.the 80s also get a nod. Who else?
    Has to be modern era sport. The quality is infinitely better now. So we can't have Perry. Iconic shirts though.

    The Power? Yes a GOAT and a half. But in darts.

    To rival Murray I suppose you could float the likes of Coe and Redgrave, Olympian types, but that is not bigtime fulltime professional top tier sport like Tennis is.

    There's a case - albeit quite a weak one - for Nick Faldo.
    What about Lewis Hamilton?
    Ah yes. Definitely worth inclusion. For me, no because F1 is narrow and elitist and involves a car (although I do like F1) but yes he has to be in the conversation.

    And on those lines, subbing horses for cars, Lester Piggott.
    Piggott was undoubtedly the best British sportsman of my lifetime, but he is generally left out of the discussion because few liked him.
    Wasn't Piggott a 'convicted felon' (as we say round here)?

    I mention this with a heavy heart because one of the first successful bets I ever made was Aegean Blue at Chester in 1966, which Lester steered home comfortably at 22-1. It was a particularly memorable day because the Moors Murder trial was ongoing at Chester Castle at the same time and as I made my way home I caught a glimpse of Ian Brady in a black maria on his way back to gaol. The 1960s were certainly interesting (but I wouldn't vote to go back there).
    He was done for tax evasion.

    Makes him a hero in some quarters!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    That BMX racing looks totally bonkers.

    It’s the one Olympic sport that’s got my 10 year old daughter properly gripped. It’s just so aesthetically satisfying. The wave form in human movement.
    It's fun, isn't it? I can't help wishing it went on for a bit longer though.
    Reminds me of the snowboarding racing in the winter olympics.
    Every time I flick the Olympics on, it’s swimming. Utterly dull. I missed the BMX which sounds great.
    You had to be quick - each race was over in the blink of an eye.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The fact that only over 50s nowadays really watch linear TV anymore and its not something people age into starting to do as they get older really ought to be all the reason we need to ditch the licence fee.

    Its an absurd 20th century anachronism.

    I've happily cancelled mine already as have millions of others. Up to the rest of you lot what you want to do with it now, none of my concern anymore.
    You need proper TV for live sport though. Streaming services are hopelessly laggy, around two minutes behind live.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,286
    dixiedean said:

    kjh said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    Do we have any inkling of a motive regards this Stockport killer? His appearance in court suggests he had an agenda. Or just a pure sadist?

    How does his appearance in court suggest he had an agenda? (Genuine question - I didn't get any sense of that from the reports)

    Suspect this might be key:
    tlg86 said:

    From the BBC:

    When arguing that the judge should impose reporting restrictions preventing Rudakubana's identification, the prosecution said the suspect had an “autism spectrum disorder diagnosis”, and that he had been “unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time”.

    The judge allowed Rudakubana's name to be made public, saying "the balance clearly comes down in favour of the public interest".

    No grand narrative. Just a young man not coping with the world, with tragic consequences.
    It matches with the descriptions from the village that no one saw him, though they did see his parents.

    Perhaps lockdown at a critical stage of social development was a factor, though certainly isn't an excuse.
    Perhaps if people stopped trying to make excuses for evil bastards and instead told them they are evil bastards instead of handing them excuses "Its not you fault because you (came from a broken family/were in lockdown at a certain period/ too poor/ etc) delete as applicable"
    How would that have worked before this lad came to unfortunate prominence? Do you possess unerring evil bastard radar?
    When I was growing up bad people were bad people no excuses, we didnt have these sort of incidents nearly as frequently, the more people make exuses for these acts about why the bad guy did it the more we seem to get of them. Sorry if thats blunt but its also true
    How old are you? Because when I was growing up we absolutely had vile people who committed vile crimes.

    When I was a kid my town was bombed the day before Mothers Day, and two kids shopping for Mothers Day gifts on Bridge Street were murdered in the explosion. One of the victims was only 3 years old. That's just one incident close to home, there's plenty of more that I'm sure everyone could relate from their own childhood unfortunately.

    We've sadly always had plenty of evil bastards down the years in this country. Nowadays we have 24/7 news and social media to really bring home the evil when it happens, but its always been there. I don't think there's anything to say its worse now than it ever was.
    We had this discussion the other day. Things are much safer now than in the past. I have lived through the riots in which PC Blacklock was murdered and nearly decapitated in a riot, IRA bombings where I lived both at University and at home (Manchester and Guildford) and where many died, football hooligans, skinheads, NF, etc. Saturday night was not a safe night for a young man in a city when I was a teenager. Really people do have a rosy view of the past.
    Yeah. Three times I was cleared out of a Central London area in three years at University because of a credible bomb threat.
    Only once did it go off.
    When was the last time that happened?
    As I've mentioned before my father sustained cuts and bruises in an IRA attack in 70s Manchester as well as narrowly missing the Woolies fire. As a family we simply didn't go to the city centre to shop - I remember going once with the family when I was about 14.

    And back home in Hyde, you cannot say we lacked for evil - the Moors Murders and the frequent searches and rumours were a looming memory by my time and, as many did, I knew Shipman well enough to have a number of small talk conversations with B him.

    Now, I think my view of how dangerous the old days were might be a little skewed by all that, but for sure all the stats say they were rougher times.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:


    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average has Trump still ahead but by just 0.3% on 44.1% with Harris on 43.8% and Kennedy on 5.9%, Stein on 0.9% and West on 0.8%.
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-harris-vs-kennedy-vs-stein-vs-west

    After the convention and her VP pick Harris will likely take the lead but I would expect it to narrow again and be neck and neck by the end of September. Trump's sentencing will also be a factor as will US interest rates and inflation and the level of border crossings from Mexico over the next few months

    Only a couple of weeks ago you were confidently telling us what a mistake it would be to nominate Harris instead of Biden!

    Doesn't it ever occur to you that you don't actually know what's going to happen in the future?
    We will see in November, at present Harris is still polling significantly below the 51% Biden got in 2020 and is at best neck and neck in her honeymoon -period which will last until post the Democratic convention and her VP pick.

    I should also point out in July 1988 Michael Dukakis had a 17% lead over Bush 41 after the Democratic convention and John Kerry was also ahead of Bush 43 at the end of July 2004. Neither won
    https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/26/us/dukakis-lead-widens-according-to-new-poll.html
    You are wasting your breath.

    The majority of posters over here seem to have decided.

    If you are right then once this all reaches its peak you should get some decent odds on Trump.
    Oh puh'lease.

    I think Trump is slight favourite, because wages have risen less quickly than prices in the last four years.

    We tease @HYUFD because he seems to think Dukakis performance in 1988 makes this election a forgone conclusion.
    We tease him because it’s a ridiculous comparison.

    Dukakis was a laudable technocrat, who was blindsided by a smear campaign.

    That kind of politicking is old news, against which Democrats are immunised by experience. And this time they’re up against a mentally fragile gerentocrat, whose shtick grew old some years ago,
    First Trump attack ads on Harris now going out focusing on her failure to control the Mexican border when given that task by Biden
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVgkf1nutQI
    That’s pretty belated stuff.
    Already pre-empted.
    https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1818414386362409091
    She supports a lot of stuff, just she hasn't done any of it yet despite being VP
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The fact that only over 50s nowadays really watch linear TV anymore and its not something people age into starting to do as they get older really ought to be all the reason we need to ditch the licence fee.

    Its an absurd 20th century anachronism.

    I've happily cancelled mine already as have millions of others. Up to the rest of you lot what you want to do with it now, none of my concern anymore.
    You need proper TV for live sport though. Streaming services are hopelessly laggy, around two minutes behind live.
    You also need a TV licence for watching any live streamed services in the UK unless you want to break the law.

    The BBC seems doomed though, which is a shame as it has been a global icon and a positive contributor to Britain's soft power. But all good things come to an end, I guess.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    https://x.com/sahilkapur/status/1819078770256760913
    @ReverendWarnock cracks a grin when I ask about the Trump-Vance attacks on Harris: “I got called a radical liberal so many times when I was running, I went back to check my birth certificate to make sure that wasn't my first name.”

    Warnock won Georgia statewide in 2020 & 2022
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813

    Taz said:

    The BBC not coming out of the Huw Edwards fiasco well at all.

    A good reason to look at scrapping the license fee.

    https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1819054962774597928?s=61

    The fact that only over 50s nowadays really watch linear TV anymore and its not something people age into starting to do as they get older really ought to be all the reason we need to ditch the licence fee.

    Its an absurd 20th century anachronism.

    I've happily cancelled mine already as have millions of others. Up to the rest of you lot what you want to do with it now, none of my concern anymore.
    You need proper TV for live sport though. Streaming services are hopelessly laggy, around two minutes behind live.
    You also need a TV licence for watching any live streamed services in the UK unless you want to break the law.

    The BBC seems doomed though, which is a shame as it has been a global icon and a positive contributor to Britain's soft power. But all good things come to an end, I guess.
    i used to think that it was one of the better state institutions but nowadays its website looks like Hello Magazine most days and its news articles are getting lower in qaulity.
This discussion has been closed.