Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

The power of imagery. – politicalbetting.com

1246

Comments

  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 15
    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    I suppose it makes them easy to put on if they are standing up ready for the foot to go in.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,691
    HYUFD said:

    On the power of imagery theme a caption comp, though hard to beat the original one.



    https://x.com/seannhickey/status/1812824488272150688

    Billy Bawheid has the unfortunate trait of looking violently agressive at inopportune moments. I'm sure that's not the real Wills of course.

    Say what you like about the Prince of Wales, he has Alpha male energy neither his father nor the PM have
    He'd have been cracking leading troops into battle in the Hundred Years War.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,547

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,691
    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    You need to pump your fist in the air near them and shout: Fight! Fight! Fight!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175
    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Still waiting for you to condemn his inflammatory language.
    https://x.com/RepJackKimble/status/1812923798464917997
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,547

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It's still REALLY weird, the sassytempt

    "A report today says Secret Service said the building was outside its established security perimeter and so was the responsibility of local police. If so: Makes no logical sense whatsoever to put that outside the perimeter when it's an obvious access point. How could that possibly happen? And even if local police help, a security point like that should never ever be solely under the purview of the local police. And there should be second by second coordination with and oversight by Secret Service. And even in that case, the Secret Service snipers and spotters should have been scanning. That's from what I know. But there are still many blanks to be filled in."

    https://x.com/SharylAttkisson/status/1812867884038648090

    At the same time, the shooter seems to be the only person in the USA with no online presence whatsoever. Whodathunk it. Even his Discord is empty. He has no criminal record, no history of drugs, booze or mental issues, he was a decent student, with Democrat parents, middle class, almost bizarrely unexceptionable - but no online life at all

    And then from nowhere he decides to shoot Donald Trump, either knowing that it would mean certain death for him, or having been assured he would NOT die

    It is perfectly weird

    You need to keep up. This morning I linked to something that mentioned the 'rings' of security. Also, it suggests a good reason why the counter-snipers may not have seen the shooter: they are tasked to look for snipers outside that area, which should have been cleared by local police. And the G8 summit of 2008 indicates why they may not want to have counter-snipers looking at areas that the local police enforcement are in... (*)

    Instead of being weird, it might all be rather mundane; a series of mistakes that occasionally happens; all the holes in the Swiss Cheese model aligning.

    As for motivation: remember the Amess murder? The man who did it went around looking for MPs to kill; but his decision to kill Amess was nothing to do with party affiliation (one of the other people he looked at killing was Starmer). Or the Reagan shooter, who did it to impress Jodie Foster.

    (*) TLDR: the counter-snipers saw snipers on the roof of a building and nearly shot them. The snipers turned out to be local law enforcement. That would have been an embarrassing blue-on-blue...
    All very possible, and you may be on to something

    But as yet we do not know, and there are many curious anomalies, and there are lots of people (on many sides) who would really like everyone to conclude that it's a lone gunman with random murderous intent

    Just like Epstein's "suicide". For an awful lot of important people, it was definitely a positive if the public accepted that this guy coincidentally happened to top himself at the same time as every single camera went kaput and all the guards were sleeping

    And, even today, that is possible. I dunno, not for sure. Do you?

    I'd strongly argue that a case like this that did not have any 'curious anomalies' would be much more likely to be a planned conspiracy. Real life is messy, and throws up curiosities.

    Take the assassination of Franz Ferdinand; who would believe his driver would drive past, stop and then stall, very near to the man who attempted, and failed, an earlier assassination? Yet that appears to be exactly what happened. It is slightly less coincidental when you consider that half of Bosnia wanted to kill him...
    Sincere question

    What do you think about Epstein? Taking into account all the fantastically weird coincidences - the wiped/defunct cameras, the sleeping guards. He was literally on suicide watch in one of America's most high profile jails, it was something that supposedly could never happen to the most important prisoner in the USA

    My guess is this: he was TOLD to commit suicide, and he was told: we shall give you a window of opportunity to do it, and a means, and during that window the cameras will not be working, and the guards will be "sleeping", and he was told the alternative was people he loved suffering very badly

    So he did it. Thus it was a coercive suicide, which is close to murder
    The Rommel approach?
    Basically, yes. I am open to other hypotheses, but they need to explain the mad weirdness
    I think they croaked him. He is the most perfect psychopath on record, so threats to his "loved ones" would have zero leverage. The puppy gets it? No skin off my nose.
    Fair enough. But how? There is zero evidence of murder, and there is post mortem evidence of suicide. Also, how did the murderer get in and who is it?

    A forced suicide is easier, tho I take your point on Epstein being a psycho
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,766

    HYUFD said:

    So in the end Trump goes with the MAGA choice, JD Vance as his VP nominee. Should at least secure Ohio for him

    Is it as simple as this?

    There is no situation in which Vance will stand up to Trump, however bad the constitutional outrage.


    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1812935076285718865

    That's pretty much it, JDV will be invariably supplicant and loyal. Trump learned his lesson after Thirty Pence.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    A bit like the reptilians that run the country?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,614
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    MattW said:

    My photo quota today is a statue of @Leon :smiley: .



    Q: Where is it?

    Llandudno Promenade
    The week before last, Mrs Stodge and I were on the Isle of Man and we stayed in Douglas and the promenade there isn't unlike the onein Llandudno, I'm told.

    The statue on the Douglas promenade is of course the Bee Gees - I was reminded of the age old maxim "whether you're a mother or whether you're a brother, you're stayin' alive, stayin' alive".
    Last year we visited the Isle of Man and stayed in a hotel on the promenade which does have similarities to Llandudno though Llandudno is more Victorian and longer

    The characters are from Alice in Wonderland and dotted around the town
    Did you partake of the steam train to Port Erin, the Horse Tramway or the lovely Electric Tramway to Ramsay?

    We took the bus to Peel, a delightful little coastal town.

    I'm sure @Sunil_Prasannan has done all the above.
    Yes all of them and loved it, though we did have the car with us and drove the full TT course

    We love all things steam and are enjoying the great little trains of Wales this month with 2 trips to Snowdon summit, on Thursday the Welsh Highland Railway from Carnarfon to Porthmadog and back, and a week later Blaenau Ffestiniog to Porthmadog and return

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    Inspiration for Alien
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    Without them, some insects would multiply uncontrollably.

    “ It is estimated that there are more species in this family than there are species of birds and mammals combined..”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichneumonidae
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,547

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    It's bollocks tho. As I discovered when I met God for the Second Time on ayahuasca, He simply doesn't give a fuck. He doens't give a fuck about climate change either, it is ridiculous in His eyes. He's got entire universes to run, the most Godliest thing about God is Not Giving A Fuck

    It's all there in the Book of Job. Fuck off, I don't give a fuck, I'm God, also life is beautiful, so stop moaning
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    Its certainly a challenge to the God Loves Everyone brigade. To more medieval interpretations with danteist views, less so.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,547

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    I say we take off, and nuke the whole site from orbit.

    Only way to be sure.
    I'm up for that. Earth is done. It's a fucking mess. Litter everywhere

    Take off, nuke it, start over
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    It's bollocks tho. As I discovered when I met God for the Second Time on ayahuasca, He simply doesn't give a fuck. He doens't give a fuck about climate change either, it is ridiculous in His eyes. He's got entire universes to run, the most Godliest thing about God is Not Giving A Fuck

    It's all there in the Book of Job. Fuck off, I don't give a fuck, I'm God, also life is beautiful, so stop moaning
    Or you were just high.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,721

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    I say we take off, and nuke the whole site from orbit.

    Only way to be sure.
    Yeah, Ichneumonidae are the basis for some of that...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,547
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    It's bollocks tho. As I discovered when I met God for the Second Time on ayahuasca, He simply doesn't give a fuck. He doens't give a fuck about climate change either, it is ridiculous in His eyes. He's got entire universes to run, the most Godliest thing about God is Not Giving A Fuck

    It's all there in the Book of Job. Fuck off, I don't give a fuck, I'm God, also life is beautiful, so stop moaning
    Or you were just high.
    You should try ayahuasca. Do the tough real stuff, with a proper ayahuasquero

    It's scary and a bit dangerous, but wow wow wow wow
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,811
    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    So in the end Trump goes with the MAGA choice, JD Vance as his VP nominee. Should at least secure Ohio for him

    Is it as simple as this?

    There is no situation in which Vance will stand up to Trump, however bad the constitutional outrage.


    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1812935076285718865

    That's pretty much it, JDV will be invariably supplicant and loyal. Trump learned his lesson after Thirty Pence.
    A point, I imagine, that the Dem VP candidate will raise with Vance when they debate.

    "Would you have done your constitutional duty as Mike Pence did?"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,101

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    I say we take off, and nuke the whole site from orbit.

    Only way to be sure.
    Whatever you say, Hudson.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,547
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Still waiting for you to condemn his inflammatory language.
    https://x.com/RepJackKimble/status/1812923798464917997
    OMFG

    *faints clean away*
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    So in the end Trump goes with the MAGA choice, JD Vance as his VP nominee. Should at least secure Ohio for him

    Is it as simple as this?

    There is no situation in which Vance will stand up to Trump, however bad the constitutional outrage.


    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1812935076285718865

    That's pretty much it, JDV will be invariably supplicant and loyal. Trump learned his lesson after Thirty Pence.
    A point, I imagine, that the Dem VP candidate will raise with Vance when they debate.

    "Would you have done your constitutional duty as Mike Pence did?"
    They could also ask about his lobbying for Purdue Pharma.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,691

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    I say we take off, and nuke the whole site from orbit.

    Only way to be sure.
    Whatever you say, Hudson.
    How do I get out of this chickenshit outfit?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,986
    There were some comments this morning about the King not being keen on sport.

    I would point out he attended Ascot on three of the five days and Camilla attended every day - she is a big horseracing fan. As the Prince of Wales, the current King rode in amateur rider races in the 1980s. He rode in six races, finishing second twice.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,547
    I've met dozens of people who have done ayahuasca. I only know of one (who had a hideous scary time, it nearly broke him) who did not become seriously more spiritual thereafter

    Everyone on PB: try it!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,118
    I am nicely green on Vance for veep!!!

    Yah.

    Trump? I wont have a word said against him! :smile:

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    It's bollocks tho. As I discovered when I met God for the Second Time on ayahuasca, He simply doesn't give a fuck. He doens't give a fuck about climate change either, it is ridiculous in His eyes. He's got entire universes to run, the most Godliest thing about God is Not Giving A Fuck

    It's all there in the Book of Job. Fuck off, I don't give a fuck, I'm God, also life is beautiful, so stop moaning
    Or you were just high.
    You should try ayahuasca. Do the tough real stuff, with a proper ayahuasquero

    It's scary and a bit dangerous, but wow wow wow wow
    The sleep of reason brings forth monsters.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,118
    Modesty prevents me from saying that on PB in April 2022 I predicted Vance would one day be a serious candidate for POTUS.



  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,547
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    It's bollocks tho. As I discovered when I met God for the Second Time on ayahuasca, He simply doesn't give a fuck. He doens't give a fuck about climate change either, it is ridiculous in His eyes. He's got entire universes to run, the most Godliest thing about God is Not Giving A Fuck

    It's all there in the Book of Job. Fuck off, I don't give a fuck, I'm God, also life is beautiful, so stop moaning
    Or you were just high.
    You should try ayahuasca. Do the tough real stuff, with a proper ayahuasquero

    It's scary and a bit dangerous, but wow wow wow wow
    The sleep of reason brings forth monsters.
    Well yeah yawn whatever, but you could also TRY IT
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175

    Modesty prevents me from saying that on PB in April 2022 I predicted Vance would one day be a serious candidate for POTUS.

    Quite a few did.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,118

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    I say we take off, and nuke the whole site from orbit.

    Only way to be sure.
    Hey, Casino, don't worry! Me and my squad of ultimate Starmer fans will protect you! Check it out! Independently targeting particle beam phalanx. Vwap! Fry half a Parliamentary constituency with this puppy. We got tactical smart missiles, phased plasma pulse rifles, RPGs, we got sonic electronic ball breakers! We got nukes, we got knives, sharp sticks, leaflets with dodgy bar charts...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175
    edited July 15
    Apparently it’s not just Biden who has problems off script.
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1812941509118853208
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755

    eek said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    MaxPB said:

    The new government is about to eat its first bowl of shit. The "Titanic" shipyard is asking for £200m in loan guarantees to start a new defence project, they say without it the shipyard is unsustainable. The treasury says that the loan guarantee will just help the owners pay itself a big dividend from the shipyard and they're probably right.

    If the government refuses there's a very real chance the shipyard goes under and all the jobs/skills are lost and if they do the subsidy scheme there's a very good chance the shareholders will immediately suck that cash out of the business anyway and leave the taxpayer on the hook for £200m.

    So best to let it go bankrupt and then lend the administrators the money to keep projects going..

    But as with many things when these issues are involved no easy answers.

    Worth saying that Short Brothers next door has similar issues, Airbus has "bought" it from Boeing but the vast majority of it's production is for none Airbus products and they don't want those parts and seemingly nor does Bombardier.

    Rachel Reeves has decisions to make. What with Mad Ed Miliband trying to kill off 200,000 jobs in the North Sea and the major manufacturers in Belfast looking shakey, this is where we see if she has an industrial policy.
    Where is your North Sea jobs figure from - that feels incredibly high..
    Direct employent/contracting in UK Oil and gas exploration is between 35,000 and 40,000 jobs. There are an additional 100,000 jobs in companies directy supporting the oil and gas industry through manufacturing and direct supply of goods, materials and services. In addition there are around 80,000 jobs which are in services not directly related to the oil industry in the NE but which would suffer some loss due to a downturn in the region.

    These numbers are pretty well known because of the experience of previous downturns.

    Realistically I would assume that the 40K direct jobs are at risk and a reasonable proportion of the 100K directly supporting jobs. I don't know how you could or should quantify the 80K jobs which might be affected by a regional downturn.

    So whilst there are more than 200,000 jobs in the UK being supported by the O&G sector, not all of those would be at risk. Maybe half of them? But that would depend a lot on the wider economy.
    Rosebank is estimated to create 1.6K jobs (during construction ahead of 'first oil' in 2026) but this will fall off once construction done. We're subsidising this to the tune of half a billion, but profits will largely be rapatriated to Norway/Israel companies (the joint venture partners).

    Not sure where your 100K O&G jobs comes from, but you get many more jobs from renewables (including wave).

    Even if you want to 'protect' these 100K jobs, doubling down on this amount of fossil fuel investment - subsidised, foreign-owned, sunset industry - is suicidal both economically and environmentally, no?
    This isn’t right. It will be the uk operating companies that pay taxation on the profits, with post tax dividends to Israeli Delek Group shared pro rata with the uk public shareholders.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    It's bollocks tho. As I discovered when I met God for the Second Time on ayahuasca, He simply doesn't give a fuck. He doens't give a fuck about climate change either, it is ridiculous in His eyes. He's got entire universes to run, the most Godliest thing about God is Not Giving A Fuck

    It's all there in the Book of Job. Fuck off, I don't give a fuck, I'm God, also life is beautiful, so stop moaning
    Or you were just high.
    You should try ayahuasca. Do the tough real stuff, with a proper ayahuasquero

    It's scary and a bit dangerous, but wow wow wow wow
    The sleep of reason brings forth monsters.
    Well yeah yawn whatever, but you could also TRY IT
    I could, but what’s the point ?
    I don’t believe my hallucinations to be meaningful.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,766

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    So in the end Trump goes with the MAGA choice, JD Vance as his VP nominee. Should at least secure Ohio for him

    Is it as simple as this?

    There is no situation in which Vance will stand up to Trump, however bad the constitutional outrage.


    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1812935076285718865

    That's pretty much it, JDV will be invariably supplicant and loyal. Trump learned his lesson after Thirty Pence.
    A point, I imagine, that the Dem VP candidate will raise with Vance when they debate.

    "Would you have done your constitutional duty as Mike Pence did?"
    He'll just finesse it and say he supports election integrity and will do his constitutional duty to support a result that reflects the will of the American people.

    Going after DJT/JDV on grounds of probity will just demonstrate a lack of comprehension of the essential nature of MAGA.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,144
    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Not much of a dilemma.

    ‘Sock or Marilyn?’

    Strokes chin thoughtfully.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,547
    edited July 15
    stodge said:

    There were some comments this morning about the King not being keen on sport.

    I would point out he attended Ascot on three of the five days and Camilla attended every day - she is a big horseracing fan. As the Prince of Wales, the current King rode in amateur rider races in the 1980s. He rode in six races, finishing second twice.

    Given the seemingly endless pathetic winlessness of English football, I am warming to the Royal Family's disdain for this vulgar, pointless "sport"

    I bet we'd win at Real Tennis or the Eton Wall Game or Cornish Silverball, the last for the very good and sensible reason that it is only allowed to be played in and by one single Cornish town, St Columb Major
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,118
    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    20m

    “Vance’s slide from path-breaking writer to Trumpist troll tracks perfectly with the decline of the Republican party…To quote Vance back at himself, if he does win, ‘it will be terrible for the country.’”
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175
    edited July 15
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    So in the end Trump goes with the MAGA choice, JD Vance as his VP nominee. Should at least secure Ohio for him

    Is it as simple as this?

    There is no situation in which Vance will stand up to Trump, however bad the constitutional outrage.


    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1812935076285718865

    That's pretty much it, JDV will be invariably supplicant and loyal. Trump learned his lesson after Thirty Pence.
    A point, I imagine, that the Dem VP candidate will raise with Vance when they debate.

    "Would you have done your constitutional duty as Mike Pence did?"
    He'll just finesse it and say he supports election integrity and will do his constitutional duty to support a result that reflects the will of the American people.

    Going after DJT/JDV on grounds of probity will just demonstrate a lack of comprehension of the essential nature of MAGA.
    The shilling for the opioid guys might get a bit more traction.
    Hypotheticals won’t.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    It's bollocks tho. As I discovered when I met God for the Second Time on ayahuasca, He simply doesn't give a fuck. He doens't give a fuck about climate change either, it is ridiculous in His eyes. He's got entire universes to run, the most Godliest thing about God is Not Giving A Fuck

    It's all there in the Book of Job. Fuck off, I don't give a fuck, I'm God, also life is beautiful, so stop moaning
    Or you were just high.
    Psychedelics don't just make you "high" though. There's something much more interesting going on. Ayahuasca makes me see heraldic beasts so vividly that I am certain they exist on some level for real, and the heraldic artists and I have access to that level. It's not just me having seen the artwork and remembering it.

    More weirdly there's a terrible thing called salvia divinorum which has the insanely specific effect of making you think you are a piece of wooden furniture. I guarantee I did not know this the first time I took it, but I spent a subjective decade forming part of the oak floor of my sitting room. This is exactly as boring as it sounds, but you have to agree it's bloody weird.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,118
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    So in the end Trump goes with the MAGA choice, JD Vance as his VP nominee. Should at least secure Ohio for him

    Is it as simple as this?

    There is no situation in which Vance will stand up to Trump, however bad the constitutional outrage.


    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1812935076285718865

    That's pretty much it, JDV will be invariably supplicant and loyal. Trump learned his lesson after Thirty Pence.
    A point, I imagine, that the Dem VP candidate will raise with Vance when they debate.

    "Would you have done your constitutional duty as Mike Pence did?"
    He'll just finesse it and say he supports election integrity and will do his constitutional duty to support a result that reflects the will of the American people.

    Going after DJT/JDV on grounds of probity will just demonstrate a lack of comprehension of the essential nature of MAGA.
    In theory it shouldn't matter that it seems likely that Vance, if put into Pence's position and being pressured to not certify the GE result, would do Trump's bidding, since in theory this is Trump's last term.

    On the other side - I somehow am not convinced by Vance's complete reversal and now total love affair with Trump. When the chips are truly down, will he find his younger self?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449
    Nigelb said:

    Apparently it’s not just Biden who has problems off script.
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1812941509118853208

    At what point does that Revocation of Independence thing become not just an internet meme from two decades ago but a bounden duty?

    Da-da-da, dat-da, dat, da-da-da, da-ya-da...
    https://youtu.be/nn5e7vq5bqk
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,547

    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Not much of a dilemma.

    ‘Sock or Marilyn?’

    Strokes chin thoughtfully.
    The point of my SOCKS story is that if you have excess testosterone, and you need a quick strum, to off load the unneeded extra phwooar, but you don't want to jizz all over your gracious host's bedlinen, a gentleman reaches for a sensible receptacle, and a sock fits the bill, especially if you have quite a wide girth and length, like me and JFK
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 812

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It's still REALLY weird, the sassytempt

    "A report today says Secret Service said the building was outside its established security perimeter and so was the responsibility of local police. If so: Makes no logical sense whatsoever to put that outside the perimeter when it's an obvious access point. How could that possibly happen? And even if local police help, a security point like that should never ever be solely under the purview of the local police. And there should be second by second coordination with and oversight by Secret Service. And even in that case, the Secret Service snipers and spotters should have been scanning. That's from what I know. But there are still many blanks to be filled in."

    https://x.com/SharylAttkisson/status/1812867884038648090

    At the same time, the shooter seems to be the only person in the USA with no online presence whatsoever. Whodathunk it. Even his Discord is empty. He has no criminal record, no history of drugs, booze or mental issues, he was a decent student, with Democrat parents, middle class, almost bizarrely unexceptionable - but no online life at all

    And then from nowhere he decides to shoot Donald Trump, either knowing that it would mean certain death for him, or having been assured he would NOT die

    It is perfectly weird

    You need to keep up. This morning I linked to something that mentioned the 'rings' of security. Also, it suggests a good reason why the counter-snipers may not have seen the shooter: they are tasked to look for snipers outside that area, which should have been cleared by local police. And the G8 summit of 2008 indicates why they may not want to have counter-snipers looking at areas that the local police enforcement are in... (*)

    Instead of being weird, it might all be rather mundane; a series of mistakes that occasionally happens; all the holes in the Swiss Cheese model aligning.

    As for motivation: remember the Amess murder? The man who did it went around looking for MPs to kill; but his decision to kill Amess was nothing to do with party affiliation (one of the other people he looked at killing was Starmer). Or the Reagan shooter, who did it to impress Jodie Foster.

    (*) TLDR: the counter-snipers saw snipers on the roof of a building and nearly shot them. The snipers turned out to be local law enforcement. That would have been an embarrassing blue-on-blue...
    All very possible, and you may be on to something

    But as yet we do not know, and there are many curious anomalies, and there are lots of people (on many sides) who would really like everyone to conclude that it's a lone gunman with random murderous intent

    Just like Epstein's "suicide". For an awful lot of important people, it was definitely a positive if the public accepted that this guy coincidentally happened to top himself at the same time as every single camera went kaput and all the guards were sleeping

    And, even today, that is possible. I dunno, not for sure. Do you?

    I'd strongly argue that a case like this that did not have any 'curious anomalies' would be much more likely to be a planned conspiracy. Real life is messy, and throws up curiosities.

    Take the assassination of Franz Ferdinand; who would believe his driver would drive past, stop and then stall, very near to the man who attempted, and failed, an earlier assassination? Yet that appears to be exactly what happened. It is slightly less coincidental when you consider that half of Bosnia wanted to kill him...
    Sincere question

    What do you think about Epstein? Taking into account all the fantastically weird coincidences - the wiped/defunct cameras, the sleeping guards. He was literally on suicide watch in one of America's most high profile jails, it was something that supposedly could never happen to the most important prisoner in the USA

    My guess is this: he was TOLD to commit suicide, and he was told: we shall give you a window of opportunity to do it, and a means, and during that window the cameras will not be working, and the guards will be "sleeping", and he was told the alternative was people he loved suffering very badly

    So he did it. Thus it was a coercive suicide, which is close to murder
    The Rommel approach?
    Basically, yes. I am open to other hypotheses, but they need to explain the mad weirdness
    I think they croaked him. He is the most perfect psychopath on record, so threats to his "loved ones" would have zero leverage. The puppy gets it? No skin off my nose.
    The story of lazy prison guards and an obviously perma-fucked billionaire nonce makes perfect sense to me. I don't see why a conspiracy is needed. Pretty sure history will prove me right but it may take centuries...

    (What I really don't understand is why he didn't flee beforehand. Preferably to somewhere poor with a high birth rate. It was obvious what was coming).
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 812

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    It's bollocks tho. As I discovered when I met God for the Second Time on ayahuasca, He simply doesn't give a fuck. He doens't give a fuck about climate change either, it is ridiculous in His eyes. He's got entire universes to run, the most Godliest thing about God is Not Giving A Fuck

    It's all there in the Book of Job. Fuck off, I don't give a fuck, I'm God, also life is beautiful, so stop moaning
    Or you were just high.
    Psychedelics don't just make you "high" though. There's something much more interesting going on. Ayahuasca makes me see heraldic beasts so vividly that I am certain they exist on some level for real, and the heraldic artists and I have access to that level. It's not just me having seen the artwork and remembering it.

    More weirdly there's a terrible thing called salvia divinorum which has the insanely specific effect of making you think you are a piece of wooden furniture. I guarantee I did not know this the first time I took it, but I spent a subjective decade forming part of the oak floor of my sitting room. This is exactly as boring as it sounds, but you have to agree it's bloody weird.
    Never thought salvia was that great myself. But I agree everyone should take psychedelics, preferably lots of them. I can still access an inexplicable thought from one of the first times I took shrooms aged around 14, more than a couple of decades later.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,547
    edited July 15

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    It's bollocks tho. As I discovered when I met God for the Second Time on ayahuasca, He simply doesn't give a fuck. He doens't give a fuck about climate change either, it is ridiculous in His eyes. He's got entire universes to run, the most Godliest thing about God is Not Giving A Fuck

    It's all there in the Book of Job. Fuck off, I don't give a fuck, I'm God, also life is beautiful, so stop moaning
    Or you were just high.
    Psychedelics don't just make you "high" though. There's something much more interesting going on. Ayahuasca makes me see heraldic beasts so vividly that I am certain they exist on some level for real, and the heraldic artists and I have access to that level. It's not just me having seen the artwork and remembering it.

    More weirdly there's a terrible thing called salvia divinorum which has the insanely specific effect of making you think you are a piece of wooden furniture. I guarantee I did not know this the first time I took it, but I spent a subjective decade forming part of the oak floor of my sitting room. This is exactly as boring as it sounds, but you have to agree it's bloody weird.
    There are many extraordinary things about ayahuasca. One is: people apparently encountering the same symbolic creatures with the same exact design, possibly at the same time, and this has been recorded for thousands of years

    Are they all accessing a mass subconscious, as Jung said? Or does it go even deeper than that?

    Remember that all life on earth (and, as far as we know, the universe, to date) is literally and physically linked. Every child had an umbilical cord, every rabbit, wasp, mushroom or whale goes back to one original source. Physically linked
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    It's bollocks tho. As I discovered when I met God for the Second Time on ayahuasca, He simply doesn't give a fuck. He doens't give a fuck about climate change either, it is ridiculous in His eyes. He's got entire universes to run, the most Godliest thing about God is Not Giving A Fuck

    It's all there in the Book of Job. Fuck off, I don't give a fuck, I'm God, also life is beautiful, so stop moaning
    Or you were just high.
    Psychedelics don't just make you "high" though. There's something much more interesting going on. Ayahuasca makes me see heraldic beasts so vividly that I am certain they exist on some level for real, and the heraldic artists and I have access to that level. It's not just me having seen the artwork and remembering it.

    More weirdly there's a terrible thing called salvia divinorum which has the insanely specific effect of making you think you are a piece of wooden furniture. I guarantee I did not know this the first time I took it, but I spent a subjective decade forming part of the oak floor of my sitting room. This is exactly as boring as it sounds, but you have to agree it's bloody weird.
    Hallucinations are weird, sure. Possibly interesting, too.
    But not really a basis for meaning.

    Just not my thing, as far as experiencing it goes.
    No doubt Leon will think that boring. So’s his desire to invest meaning in it, AFAIAC.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 812
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    It's bollocks tho. As I discovered when I met God for the Second Time on ayahuasca, He simply doesn't give a fuck. He doens't give a fuck about climate change either, it is ridiculous in His eyes. He's got entire universes to run, the most Godliest thing about God is Not Giving A Fuck

    It's all there in the Book of Job. Fuck off, I don't give a fuck, I'm God, also life is beautiful, so stop moaning
    Or you were just high.
    Psychedelics don't just make you "high" though. There's something much more interesting going on. Ayahuasca makes me see heraldic beasts so vividly that I am certain they exist on some level for real, and the heraldic artists and I have access to that level. It's not just me having seen the artwork and remembering it.

    More weirdly there's a terrible thing called salvia divinorum which has the insanely specific effect of making you think you are a piece of wooden furniture. I guarantee I did not know this the first time I took it, but I spent a subjective decade forming part of the oak floor of my sitting room. This is exactly as boring as it sounds, but you have to agree it's bloody weird.
    Hallucinations are weird, sure. Possibly interesting, too.
    But not really a basis for meaning.

    Just not my thing, as far as experiencing it goes.
    No doubt Leon will think that boring. So’s his desire to invest meaning in it, AFAIAC.
    What do you consider to have meaning? If you think about that harder you'll probably understand why if anything does they do.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Not much of a dilemma.

    ‘Sock or Marilyn?’

    Strokes chin thoughtfully.
    The point of my SOCKS story is that if you have excess testosterone, and you need a quick strum, to off load the unneeded extra phwooar, but you don't want to jizz all over your gracious host's bedlinen, a gentleman reaches for a sensible receptacle, and a sock fits the bill, especially if you have quite a wide girth and length, like me and JFK
    Surely that brag would work better if you didn't have to aggregate?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,118
    Vance is very anti-ukraine support.

    So no chance of further support under Trump-Vance from Jan 2025.

    Brace Ukraine.


  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,547
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    It's bollocks tho. As I discovered when I met God for the Second Time on ayahuasca, He simply doesn't give a fuck. He doens't give a fuck about climate change either, it is ridiculous in His eyes. He's got entire universes to run, the most Godliest thing about God is Not Giving A Fuck

    It's all there in the Book of Job. Fuck off, I don't give a fuck, I'm God, also life is beautiful, so stop moaning
    Or you were just high.
    Psychedelics don't just make you "high" though. There's something much more interesting going on. Ayahuasca makes me see heraldic beasts so vividly that I am certain they exist on some level for real, and the heraldic artists and I have access to that level. It's not just me having seen the artwork and remembering it.

    More weirdly there's a terrible thing called salvia divinorum which has the insanely specific effect of making you think you are a piece of wooden furniture. I guarantee I did not know this the first time I took it, but I spent a subjective decade forming part of the oak floor of my sitting room. This is exactly as boring as it sounds, but you have to agree it's bloody weird.
    Hallucinations are weird, sure. Possibly interesting, too.
    But not really a basis for meaning.

    Just not my thing, as far as experiencing it goes.
    No doubt Leon will think that boring. So’s his desire to invest meaning in it, AFAIAC.
    I don't think THAT is boring, I think YOU are a tiny bit boring, or at least socialised to be that way

    That said, I've noticed that you are also genuinely kind. Whenever someone is being bullied or oppressed on here (and they can be from any political orientation) your instinct is to dive in and protect them, in a genteel way, but nonetheless a meaningful way. It is one of the most Christian instincts I have witnessed on PB, and you do it quite a lot

    You've done it for me, recently. I don't need it, I'm pretty tough, but I noted it, and filed it away. So, well done you

    Also, this makes you not-boring, so that fucks up my original point, but hey ho. I still admire your Christian reflexes to protect people having a hard time
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,144
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Not much of a dilemma.

    ‘Sock or Marilyn?’

    Strokes chin thoughtfully.
    The point of my SOCKS story is that if you have excess testosterone, and you need a quick strum, to off load the unneeded extra phwooar, but you don't want to jizz all over your gracious host's bedlinen, a gentleman reaches for a sensible receptacle, and a sock fits the bill, especially if you have quite a wide girth and length, like me and JFK
    Something in me recoils from a tawdry, used sock, and I wouldn’t want to besmirch a nice clean Egyptian Cotton Pantherella. A box of Kleenex seems the pragmatic solution.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    It's bollocks tho. As I discovered when I met God for the Second Time on ayahuasca, He simply doesn't give a fuck. He doens't give a fuck about climate change either, it is ridiculous in His eyes. He's got entire universes to run, the most Godliest thing about God is Not Giving A Fuck

    It's all there in the Book of Job. Fuck off, I don't give a fuck, I'm God, also life is beautiful, so stop moaning
    Or you were just high.
    Psychedelics don't just make you "high" though. There's something much more interesting going on. Ayahuasca makes me see heraldic beasts so vividly that I am certain they exist on some level for real, and the heraldic artists and I have access to that level. It's not just me having seen the artwork and remembering it.

    More weirdly there's a terrible thing called salvia divinorum which has the insanely specific effect of making you think you are a piece of wooden furniture. I guarantee I did not know this the first time I took it, but I spent a subjective decade forming part of the oak floor of my sitting room. This is exactly as boring as it sounds, but you have to agree it's bloody weird.
    Never thought salvia was that great myself. But I agree everyone should take psychedelics, preferably lots of them. I can still access an inexplicable thought from one of the first times I took shrooms aged around 14, more than a couple of decades later.
    Another weird one is datura (jimson weed). Never taken it but trip reports are pretty clear that it is the worst drug in the world. The interesting point is, you invariably keep thinking you have lit a cigarette and then dropped it and you are panicking it will start a fire. Again why would a chemical translate to a delusion like this so consistently?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,691
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    It's bollocks tho. As I discovered when I met God for the Second Time on ayahuasca, He simply doesn't give a fuck. He doens't give a fuck about climate change either, it is ridiculous in His eyes. He's got entire universes to run, the most Godliest thing about God is Not Giving A Fuck

    It's all there in the Book of Job. Fuck off, I don't give a fuck, I'm God, also life is beautiful, so stop moaning
    Or you were just high.
    Psychedelics don't just make you "high" though. There's something much more interesting going on. Ayahuasca makes me see heraldic beasts so vividly that I am certain they exist on some level for real, and the heraldic artists and I have access to that level. It's not just me having seen the artwork and remembering it.

    More weirdly there's a terrible thing called salvia divinorum which has the insanely specific effect of making you think you are a piece of wooden furniture. I guarantee I did not know this the first time I took it, but I spent a subjective decade forming part of the oak floor of my sitting room. This is exactly as boring as it sounds, but you have to agree it's bloody weird.
    Hallucinations are weird, sure. Possibly interesting, too.
    But not really a basis for meaning.

    Just not my thing, as far as experiencing it goes.
    No doubt Leon will think that boring. So’s his desire to invest meaning in it, AFAIAC.
    I don't think THAT is boring, I think YOU are a tiny bit boring, or at least socialised to be that way

    That said, I've noticed that you are also genuinely kind. Whenever someone is being bullied or oppressed on here (and they can be from any political orientation) your instinct is to dive in and protect them, in a genteel way, but nonetheless a meaningful way. It is one of the most Christian instincts I have witnessed on PB, and you do it quite a lot

    You've done it for me, recently. I don't need it, I'm pretty tough, but I noted it, and filed it away. So, well done you

    Also, this makes you not-boring, so that fucks up my original point, but hey ho. I still admire your Christian reflexes to protect people having a hard time
    Yes, he does do that.

    Chapeau.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,547

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Not much of a dilemma.

    ‘Sock or Marilyn?’

    Strokes chin thoughtfully.
    The point of my SOCKS story is that if you have excess testosterone, and you need a quick strum, to off load the unneeded extra phwooar, but you don't want to jizz all over your gracious host's bedlinen, a gentleman reaches for a sensible receptacle, and a sock fits the bill, especially if you have quite a wide girth and length, like me and JFK
    Something in me recoils from a tawdry, used sock, and I wouldn’t want to besmirch a nice clean Egyptian Cotton Pantherella. A box of Kleenex seems the pragmatic solution.
    I hear you. It's not perfect, but I am talking *in extremis* here

    I once used the cover of a friend's scatter cushion, and this was in a posh part of BATH, I have never gotten over the shame. Even tho no one ever noticed
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    Vance is very anti-ukraine support.

    So no chance of further support under Trump-Vance from Jan 2025.

    Brace Ukraine.


    How does Boris Johnson square his support for Ukraine with his support of Trump. You can’t support both .
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,118
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Not much of a dilemma.

    ‘Sock or Marilyn?’

    Strokes chin thoughtfully.
    The point of my SOCKS story is that if you have excess testosterone, and you need a quick strum, to off load the unneeded extra phwooar, but you don't want to jizz all over your gracious host's bedlinen, a gentleman reaches for a sensible receptacle, and a sock fits the bill, especially if you have quite a wide girth and length, like me and JFK
    Something in me recoils from a tawdry, used sock, and I wouldn’t want to besmirch a nice clean Egyptian Cotton Pantherella. A box of Kleenex seems the pragmatic solution.
    I hear you. It's not perfect, but I am talking *in extremis* here

    I once used the cover of a friend's scatter cushion, and this was in a posh part of BATH, I have never gotten over the shame. Even tho no one ever noticed
    Don't you ever cum underwater? Underwater cum shots look just like puffs of smoke!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,547

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Not much of a dilemma.

    ‘Sock or Marilyn?’

    Strokes chin thoughtfully.
    The point of my SOCKS story is that if you have excess testosterone, and you need a quick strum, to off load the unneeded extra phwooar, but you don't want to jizz all over your gracious host's bedlinen, a gentleman reaches for a sensible receptacle, and a sock fits the bill, especially if you have quite a wide girth and length, like me and JFK
    Something in me recoils from a tawdry, used sock, and I wouldn’t want to besmirch a nice clean Egyptian Cotton Pantherella. A box of Kleenex seems the pragmatic solution.
    I hear you. It's not perfect, but I am talking *in extremis* here

    I once used the cover of a friend's scatter cushion, and this was in a posh part of BATH, I have never gotten over the shame. Even tho no one ever noticed
    Can we please change the subject.

    Thank you.
    OMG was it your house in Bath? Did you inherit?

    Third cushion from the left. Probably dry cleaning is best, at this late stage
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Not much of a dilemma.

    ‘Sock or Marilyn?’

    Strokes chin thoughtfully.
    The point of my SOCKS story is that if you have excess testosterone, and you need a quick strum, to off load the unneeded extra phwooar, but you don't want to jizz all over your gracious host's bedlinen, a gentleman reaches for a sensible receptacle, and a sock fits the bill, especially if you have quite a wide girth and length, like me and JFK
    Something in me recoils from a tawdry, used sock, and I wouldn’t want to besmirch a nice clean Egyptian Cotton Pantherella. A box of Kleenex seems the pragmatic solution.
    I hear you. It's not perfect, but I am talking *in extremis* here

    I once used the cover of a friend's scatter cushion, and this was in a posh part of BATH, I have never gotten over the shame. Even tho no one ever noticed
    Don't you ever cum underwater? Underwater cum shots look just like puffs of smoke!
    General election now! Anything to stop this eruption of pubescent filth.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It's still REALLY weird, the sassytempt

    "A report today says Secret Service said the building was outside its established security perimeter and so was the responsibility of local police. If so: Makes no logical sense whatsoever to put that outside the perimeter when it's an obvious access point. How could that possibly happen? And even if local police help, a security point like that should never ever be solely under the purview of the local police. And there should be second by second coordination with and oversight by Secret Service. And even in that case, the Secret Service snipers and spotters should have been scanning. That's from what I know. But there are still many blanks to be filled in."

    https://x.com/SharylAttkisson/status/1812867884038648090

    At the same time, the shooter seems to be the only person in the USA with no online presence whatsoever. Whodathunk it. Even his Discord is empty. He has no criminal record, no history of drugs, booze or mental issues, he was a decent student, with Democrat parents, middle class, almost bizarrely unexceptionable - but no online life at all

    And then from nowhere he decides to shoot Donald Trump, either knowing that it would mean certain death for him, or having been assured he would NOT die

    It is perfectly weird

    You need to keep up. This morning I linked to something that mentioned the 'rings' of security. Also, it suggests a good reason why the counter-snipers may not have seen the shooter: they are tasked to look for snipers outside that area, which should have been cleared by local police. And the G8 summit of 2008 indicates why they may not want to have counter-snipers looking at areas that the local police enforcement are in... (*)

    Instead of being weird, it might all be rather mundane; a series of mistakes that occasionally happens; all the holes in the Swiss Cheese model aligning.

    As for motivation: remember the Amess murder? The man who did it went around looking for MPs to kill; but his decision to kill Amess was nothing to do with party affiliation (one of the other people he looked at killing was Starmer). Or the Reagan shooter, who did it to impress Jodie Foster.

    (*) TLDR: the counter-snipers saw snipers on the roof of a building and nearly shot them. The snipers turned out to be local law enforcement. That would have been an embarrassing blue-on-blue...
    All very possible, and you may be on to something

    But as yet we do not know, and there are many curious anomalies, and there are lots of people (on many sides) who would really like everyone to conclude that it's a lone gunman with random murderous intent

    Just like Epstein's "suicide". For an awful lot of important people, it was definitely a positive if the public accepted that this guy coincidentally happened to top himself at the same time as every single camera went kaput and all the guards were sleeping

    And, even today, that is possible. I dunno, not for sure. Do you?

    I'd strongly argue that a case like this that did not have any 'curious anomalies' would be much more likely to be a planned conspiracy. Real life is messy, and throws up curiosities.

    Take the assassination of Franz Ferdinand; who would believe his driver would drive past, stop and then stall, very near to the man who attempted, and failed, an earlier assassination? Yet that appears to be exactly what happened. It is slightly less coincidental when you consider that half of Bosnia wanted to kill him...
    Sincere question

    What do you think about Epstein? Taking into account all the fantastically weird coincidences - the wiped/defunct cameras, the sleeping guards. He was literally on suicide watch in one of America's most high profile jails, it was something that supposedly could never happen to the most important prisoner in the USA

    My guess is this: he was TOLD to commit suicide, and he was told: we shall give you a window of opportunity to do it, and a means, and during that window the cameras will not be working, and the guards will be "sleeping", and he was told the alternative was people he loved suffering very badly

    So he did it. Thus it was a coercive suicide, which is close to murder
    The Rommel approach?
    Basically, yes. I am open to other hypotheses, but they need to explain the mad weirdness
    I think they croaked him. He is the most perfect psychopath on record, so threats to his "loved ones" would have zero leverage. The puppy gets it? No skin off my nose.
    The story of lazy prison guards and an obviously perma-fucked billionaire nonce makes perfect sense to me. I don't see why a conspiracy is needed. Pretty sure history will prove me right but it may take centuries...

    (What I really don't understand is why he didn't flee beforehand. Preferably to somewhere poor with a high birth rate. It was obvious what was coming).
    Going back to Sassytempt: it is very weird that the sassytempter is so strangely neutral. I mean, many people are neutral. (Though I don't think I know of anyone with so little backstory). But normally those people don't temptsassy. And the sorts of people who DO temptsassy tend to have detailed and discoverable history of weirdness.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Good news for mortgage holders that Haskell is leaving the BoE. After Greene and Mann I have him down as the 3rd most hawkish committee member. Hopefully Reeves can find another Dinghra to replace him with
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    Vance is very anti-ukraine support.

    So no chance of further support under Trump-Vance from Jan 2025.

    Brace Ukraine.


    Sod brace, step up to the plate now. All Europe needs to step up manufacture of arms of all kinds now.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,118

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Not much of a dilemma.

    ‘Sock or Marilyn?’

    Strokes chin thoughtfully.
    The point of my SOCKS story is that if you have excess testosterone, and you need a quick strum, to off load the unneeded extra phwooar, but you don't want to jizz all over your gracious host's bedlinen, a gentleman reaches for a sensible receptacle, and a sock fits the bill, especially if you have quite a wide girth and length, like me and JFK
    Something in me recoils from a tawdry, used sock, and I wouldn’t want to besmirch a nice clean Egyptian Cotton Pantherella. A box of Kleenex seems the pragmatic solution.
    I hear you. It's not perfect, but I am talking *in extremis* here

    I once used the cover of a friend's scatter cushion, and this was in a posh part of BATH, I have never gotten over the shame. Even tho no one ever noticed
    Don't you ever cum underwater? Underwater cum shots look just like puffs of smoke!
    Toto, I have a feeling we are no longer in Ohio.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,547
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It's still REALLY weird, the sassytempt

    "A report today says Secret Service said the building was outside its established security perimeter and so was the responsibility of local police. If so: Makes no logical sense whatsoever to put that outside the perimeter when it's an obvious access point. How could that possibly happen? And even if local police help, a security point like that should never ever be solely under the purview of the local police. And there should be second by second coordination with and oversight by Secret Service. And even in that case, the Secret Service snipers and spotters should have been scanning. That's from what I know. But there are still many blanks to be filled in."

    https://x.com/SharylAttkisson/status/1812867884038648090

    At the same time, the shooter seems to be the only person in the USA with no online presence whatsoever. Whodathunk it. Even his Discord is empty. He has no criminal record, no history of drugs, booze or mental issues, he was a decent student, with Democrat parents, middle class, almost bizarrely unexceptionable - but no online life at all

    And then from nowhere he decides to shoot Donald Trump, either knowing that it would mean certain death for him, or having been assured he would NOT die

    It is perfectly weird

    You need to keep up. This morning I linked to something that mentioned the 'rings' of security. Also, it suggests a good reason why the counter-snipers may not have seen the shooter: they are tasked to look for snipers outside that area, which should have been cleared by local police. And the G8 summit of 2008 indicates why they may not want to have counter-snipers looking at areas that the local police enforcement are in... (*)

    Instead of being weird, it might all be rather mundane; a series of mistakes that occasionally happens; all the holes in the Swiss Cheese model aligning.

    As for motivation: remember the Amess murder? The man who did it went around looking for MPs to kill; but his decision to kill Amess was nothing to do with party affiliation (one of the other people he looked at killing was Starmer). Or the Reagan shooter, who did it to impress Jodie Foster.

    (*) TLDR: the counter-snipers saw snipers on the roof of a building and nearly shot them. The snipers turned out to be local law enforcement. That would have been an embarrassing blue-on-blue...
    All very possible, and you may be on to something

    But as yet we do not know, and there are many curious anomalies, and there are lots of people (on many sides) who would really like everyone to conclude that it's a lone gunman with random murderous intent

    Just like Epstein's "suicide". For an awful lot of important people, it was definitely a positive if the public accepted that this guy coincidentally happened to top himself at the same time as every single camera went kaput and all the guards were sleeping

    And, even today, that is possible. I dunno, not for sure. Do you?

    I'd strongly argue that a case like this that did not have any 'curious anomalies' would be much more likely to be a planned conspiracy. Real life is messy, and throws up curiosities.

    Take the assassination of Franz Ferdinand; who would believe his driver would drive past, stop and then stall, very near to the man who attempted, and failed, an earlier assassination? Yet that appears to be exactly what happened. It is slightly less coincidental when you consider that half of Bosnia wanted to kill him...
    Sincere question

    What do you think about Epstein? Taking into account all the fantastically weird coincidences - the wiped/defunct cameras, the sleeping guards. He was literally on suicide watch in one of America's most high profile jails, it was something that supposedly could never happen to the most important prisoner in the USA

    My guess is this: he was TOLD to commit suicide, and he was told: we shall give you a window of opportunity to do it, and a means, and during that window the cameras will not be working, and the guards will be "sleeping", and he was told the alternative was people he loved suffering very badly

    So he did it. Thus it was a coercive suicide, which is close to murder
    The Rommel approach?
    Basically, yes. I am open to other hypotheses, but they need to explain the mad weirdness
    I think they croaked him. He is the most perfect psychopath on record, so threats to his "loved ones" would have zero leverage. The puppy gets it? No skin off my nose.
    The story of lazy prison guards and an obviously perma-fucked billionaire nonce makes perfect sense to me. I don't see why a conspiracy is needed. Pretty sure history will prove me right but it may take centuries...

    (What I really don't understand is why he didn't flee beforehand. Preferably to somewhere poor with a high birth rate. It was obvious what was coming).
    Going back to Sassytempt: it is very weird that the sassytempter is so strangely neutral. I mean, many people are neutral. (Though I don't think I know of anyone with so little backstory). But normally those people don't temptsassy. And the sorts of people who DO temptsassy tend to have detailed and discoverable history of weirdness.
    Yes, quite. It's like "they" chose the most neutral person in history. How many 20 year olds have 1. made a donation to a serious Dem cause but also 2. joined the Republicans to vote in a primary, and 3. expressed no other political viewpoints ever

    And at the same time he has, uniquely, no internet presence and is described by everyone as pleasant, a bit timid, but quite intelligent. This is not a mad incel, AFAICS, he was socially doing OK, eg he had an OK job and so on

    And after all that he goes and does an insane violent act, bound to end in his own death

  • Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    It's bollocks tho. As I discovered when I met God for the Second Time on ayahuasca, He simply doesn't give a fuck. He doens't give a fuck about climate change either, it is ridiculous in His eyes. He's got entire universes to run, the most Godliest thing about God is Not Giving A Fuck

    It's all there in the Book of Job. Fuck off, I don't give a fuck, I'm God, also life is beautiful, so stop moaning
    Or you were just high.
    Psychedelics don't just make you "high" though. There's something much more interesting going on. Ayahuasca makes me see heraldic beasts so vividly that I am certain they exist on some level for real, and the heraldic artists and I have access to that level. It's not just me having seen the artwork and remembering it.

    More weirdly there's a terrible thing called salvia divinorum which has the insanely specific effect of making you think you are a piece of wooden furniture. I guarantee I did not know this the first time I took it, but I spent a subjective decade forming part of the oak floor of my sitting room. This is exactly as boring as it sounds, but you have to agree it's bloody weird.
    There are many extraordinary things about ayahuasca. One is: people apparently encountering the same symbolic creatures with the same exact design, possibly at the same time, and this has been recorded for thousands of years

    Are they all accessing a mass subconscious, as Jung said? Or does it go even deeper than that?

    Remember that all life on earth (and, as far as we know, the universe, to date) is literally and physically linked. Every child had an umbilical cord, every rabbit, wasp, mushroom or whale goes back to one original source. Physically linked
    You should check out Merlin Sheldrake's Entangled Life.
    Fungal networks and Psychedelics. That's the real power in the universe.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,165
    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    No more so than any other posh lads rugby union team.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175
    Pretty thin.

    JD Vance has been a senator for ~18 months.

    What's his record?

    —Opponent of abortion rights, gun control and interventionist foreign policy.

    —Firmly against Ukraine aid, believes they should cede land to Russia to end the war.

    —Reliable vote with GOP's right flank against Biden's agenda/judges/bipartisan funding deals.

    —Co-wrote bipartisan rail safety bill and backs clawing back failed bank execs' bonuses.

    —Echoed Trump's claims about 2020 and J6 certification, accuses admin of "persecution" of Trump...

    https://x.com/sahilkapur/status/1812953758256750885

    Basically a mirror image of what the GOP would call a DEI hire.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    Pulpstar said:

    Good news for mortgage holders that Haskell is leaving the BoE. After Greene and Mann I have him down as the 3rd most hawkish committee member. Hopefully Reeves can find another Dinghra to replace him with

    It all comes down to getting inflation on target. That is the remit they have. Have the hawks got it wrong?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,319

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    No more so than any other posh lads rugby union team.
    Far far worse than the other posh cunts. This time last year they were in league with Warwick University to build a big, stupid concrete stadium in the middle of our green belt. Instead they have deservedly fucked off into oblivion, and long may they stay there.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,846
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Not much of a dilemma.

    ‘Sock or Marilyn?’

    Strokes chin thoughtfully.
    The point of my SOCKS story is that if you have excess testosterone, and you need a quick strum, to off load the unneeded extra phwooar, but you don't want to jizz all over your gracious host's bedlinen, a gentleman reaches for a sensible receptacle, and a sock fits the bill, especially if you have quite a wide girth and length, like me and JFK
    Something in me recoils from a tawdry, used sock, and I wouldn’t want to besmirch a nice clean Egyptian Cotton Pantherella. A box of Kleenex seems the pragmatic solution.
    I hear you. It's not perfect, but I am talking *in extremis* here

    I once used the cover of a friend's scatter cushion, and this was in a posh part of BATH, I have never gotten over the shame. Even tho no one ever noticed
    From an old army spoof of Perry Como's Magic Moments:

    "I'll never forget the night that I gave you your first orgasm /
    I wiped my cock on the curtain your mother had a spasm"
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 976

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasps are just c*nts, aren't they?

    If you ignore them, they will go about their business. If you flap around and get agitated, they will too. I rather like wasps, even the dozy, end of summer, not long for the world ones that plague late August in the beer garden.
    No, I'm catching up on Springwatch and they're talking about yet another creepy parasitic wasp species which preys on sad lonely caterpilars and forces them to become living broodmares as the wasplings eat it alive

    They are C*NTS. Absolute C*NTS

    I'd vote for anyone that promises to Wipe Out Wasps
    That was exactly what caused c Darwin to cease to believe in God
    The ichneumon wasp parasitises on the blue butterfly which itself is a parasite of the ants
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 15
    Conversations like tonights might get you chucked out of a pub "last of the summer wine style" if held in one.....

  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Not much of a dilemma.

    ‘Sock or Marilyn?’

    Strokes chin thoughtfully.
    The point of my SOCKS story is that if you have excess testosterone, and you need a quick strum, to off load the unneeded extra phwooar, but you don't want to jizz all over your gracious host's bedlinen, a gentleman reaches for a sensible receptacle, and a sock fits the bill, especially if you have quite a wide girth and length, like me and JFK
    Something in me recoils from a tawdry, used sock, and I wouldn’t want to besmirch a nice clean Egyptian Cotton Pantherella. A box of Kleenex seems the pragmatic solution.
    I hear you. It's not perfect, but I am talking *in extremis* here

    I once used the cover of a friend's scatter cushion, and this was in a posh part of BATH, I have never gotten over the shame. Even tho no one ever noticed
    From an old army spoof of Perry Como's Magic Moments:

    "I'll never forget the night that I gave you your first orgasm /
    I wiped my cock on the curtain your mother had a spasm"
    First dirty joke I ever understood: What is the Queen's favourite record?

    Magic moments on Philips 12 inch.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,691
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Not much of a dilemma.

    ‘Sock or Marilyn?’

    Strokes chin thoughtfully.
    The point of my SOCKS story is that if you have excess testosterone, and you need a quick strum, to off load the unneeded extra phwooar, but you don't want to jizz all over your gracious host's bedlinen, a gentleman reaches for a sensible receptacle, and a sock fits the bill, especially if you have quite a wide girth and length, like me and JFK
    Something in me recoils from a tawdry, used sock, and I wouldn’t want to besmirch a nice clean Egyptian Cotton Pantherella. A box of Kleenex seems the pragmatic solution.
    I hear you. It's not perfect, but I am talking *in extremis* here

    I once used the cover of a friend's scatter cushion, and this was in a posh part of BATH, I have never gotten over the shame. Even tho no one ever noticed
    Can we please change the subject.

    Thank you.
    OMG was it your house in Bath? Did you inherit?

    Third cushion from the left. Probably dry cleaning is best, at this late stage
    It's like listening to the chats that were had after lights-out in my dormitory when I was fifteen years old.

    I'd hope we'd be just a little but more refined than that.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,118

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Not much of a dilemma.

    ‘Sock or Marilyn?’

    Strokes chin thoughtfully.
    The point of my SOCKS story is that if you have excess testosterone, and you need a quick strum, to off load the unneeded extra phwooar, but you don't want to jizz all over your gracious host's bedlinen, a gentleman reaches for a sensible receptacle, and a sock fits the bill, especially if you have quite a wide girth and length, like me and JFK
    Something in me recoils from a tawdry, used sock, and I wouldn’t want to besmirch a nice clean Egyptian Cotton Pantherella. A box of Kleenex seems the pragmatic solution.
    I hear you. It's not perfect, but I am talking *in extremis* here

    I once used the cover of a friend's scatter cushion, and this was in a posh part of BATH, I have never gotten over the shame. Even tho no one ever noticed
    Don't you ever cum underwater? Underwater cum shots look just like puffs of smoke!
    Toto, I have a feeling we are no longer in Ohio.
    Ha! I got "flagged" :lol:
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,360

    Pulpstar said:

    Good news for mortgage holders that Haskell is leaving the BoE. After Greene and Mann I have him down as the 3rd most hawkish committee member. Hopefully Reeves can find another Dinghra to replace him with

    It all comes down to getting inflation on target. That is the remit they have. Have the hawks got it wrong?
    No, they've got inflation wrong.

    We had rampant inflation in the quarter century from when the Bank became independent in 1997 until 2022.

    However, incorrectly, house prices are excluded from the inflation measure so inflation was falsely reported as low that whole time, when in the real world prices were skyrocketing. Which is why those who have paid off their mortgage are fine, while people who want to buy a home without parental support typically can't.

    Incorporate house prices (not mortgage payments, the actual prices) in the inflation figures and inflation and the Bank's responses to it would be quite different and would have been for decades.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    Nunu5 said:

    I still don't understand the Labour fall of 29% in Leicester East. Ok, so this seat has a huge Hindu AND Muslim vote, but 29%!!

    Two, count 'em, two former Labour MPs stood, Claudia Webbe and Keith Vaz. Adding their votes to the official Labour candidate would mean a comfortable majority. The Conservative vote also fell, although they won this time. Foxy posted several times on here that something was up in that seat.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    edited July 15
    We election nerds have been waiting a very long time for footage of ITN's election night shows from before 1983 to turn up, and it finally has a few days ago on the official ITN archive YouTube channel. The 1974 graphics are pretty impressive for the time.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBjvUxxXW3E
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Not much of a dilemma.

    ‘Sock or Marilyn?’

    Strokes chin thoughtfully.
    The point of my SOCKS story is that if you have excess testosterone, and you need a quick strum, to off load the unneeded extra phwooar, but you don't want to jizz all over your gracious host's bedlinen, a gentleman reaches for a sensible receptacle, and a sock fits the bill, especially if you have quite a wide girth and length, like me and JFK
    Something in me recoils from a tawdry, used sock, and I wouldn’t want to besmirch a nice clean Egyptian Cotton Pantherella. A box of Kleenex seems the pragmatic solution.
    I hear you. It's not perfect, but I am talking *in extremis* here

    I once used the cover of a friend's scatter cushion, and this was in a posh part of BATH, I have never gotten over the shame. Even tho no one ever noticed
    From an old army spoof of Perry Como's Magic Moments:

    "I'll never forget the night that I gave you your first orgasm /
    I wiped my cock on the curtain your mother had a spasm"
    First dirty joke I ever understood: What is the Queen's favourite record?

    Magic moments on Philips 12 inch.
    (In a desperate and probably doomed attempt to raise the tone)

    For a while as a child, my favourite joke went thusly:

    Dear Norris McWhirter,

    I have a disc of black plastic, quite thin and twelve inches in diameter. It has a small hole in the middle and grooves on each side.

    Is this a record?

    (I was easily amused.)
    LOL. But the minimum age for understanding that is probably 50.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,118
    DavidL said:

    Vance is very anti-ukraine support.

    So no chance of further support under Trump-Vance from Jan 2025.

    Brace Ukraine.


    Sod brace, step up to the plate now. All Europe needs to step up manufacture of arms of all kinds now.
    Not sure the taps can just be turned on like that.

    Do we even make in europe something like ATACMS?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,118
    Nigelb said:

    Pretty thin.

    JD Vance has been a senator for ~18 months.

    What's his record?

    —Opponent of abortion rights, gun control and interventionist foreign policy.

    —Firmly against Ukraine aid, believes they should cede land to Russia to end the war.

    —Reliable vote with GOP's right flank against Biden's agenda/judges/bipartisan funding deals.

    —Co-wrote bipartisan rail safety bill and backs clawing back failed bank execs' bonuses.

    —Echoed Trump's claims about 2020 and J6 certification, accuses admin of "persecution" of Trump...

    https://x.com/sahilkapur/status/1812953758256750885

    Basically a mirror image of what the GOP would call a DEI hire.

    Constant fawning that would make even Farage blush is missing from the list.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,319
    edited July 15

    Pulpstar said:

    Good news for mortgage holders that Haskell is leaving the BoE. After Greene and Mann I have him down as the 3rd most hawkish committee member. Hopefully Reeves can find another Dinghra to replace him with

    It all comes down to getting inflation on target. That is the remit they have. Have the hawks got it wrong?
    No, they've got inflation wrong.

    We had rampant inflation in the quarter century from when the Bank became independent in 1997 until 2022.

    However, incorrectly, house prices are excluded from the inflation measure so inflation was falsely reported as low that whole time, when in the real world prices were skyrocketing. Which is why those who have paid off their mortgage are fine, while people who want to buy a home without parental support typically can't.

    Incorporate house prices (not mortgage payments, the actual prices) in the inflation figures and inflation and the Bank's responses to it would be quite different and would have been for decades.
    If house prices were part of inflation figures the BoE would have responded by pumping interest rates until all economic activity had been choked off at birth. Most houses already exist so they are not part of the economy in the same way as current goods and services. The only solution, as you have often argued, is to loosen the supply of land so that new-build houses become affordable.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928

    Pulpstar said:

    Good news for mortgage holders that Haskell is leaving the BoE. After Greene and Mann I have him down as the 3rd most hawkish committee member. Hopefully Reeves can find another Dinghra to replace him with

    It all comes down to getting inflation on target. That is the remit they have. Have the hawks got it wrong?
    No, they've got inflation wrong.

    We had rampant inflation in the quarter century from when the Bank became independent in 1997 until 2022.

    However, incorrectly, house prices are excluded from the inflation measure so inflation was falsely reported as low that whole time, when in the real world prices were skyrocketing. Which is why those who have paid off their mortgage are fine, while people who want to buy a home without parental support typically can't.

    Incorporate house prices (not mortgage payments, the actual prices) in the inflation figures and inflation and the Bank's responses to it would be quite different and would have been for decades.
    I have sympathy with what you are saying but I was referring to the situation over the last 6-12 months rather than a generation!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,118
    Maggie Haberman
    @maggieNYT

    Hillbilly Elegy will get another print run after Vance's selection
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    Presumably if Trump gets elected* the Ukrainians will take off the strait jacket Biden has insisted they wear.

    *Is it elected or re-elected?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    DavidL said:

    Vance is very anti-ukraine support.

    So no chance of further support under Trump-Vance from Jan 2025.

    Brace Ukraine.


    Sod brace, step up to the plate now. All Europe needs to step up manufacture of arms of all kinds now.
    Not sure the taps can just be turned on like that.

    Do we even make in europe something like ATACMS?
    It cannot be done immediately or disparately. We all need to work together to meet Ukraine's needs.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    Maggie Haberman
    @maggieNYT

    Hillbilly Elegy will get another print run after Vance's selection

    It's an interesting book at times, but mostly it blames the poor for being poor. After all, Vance escaped so anyone who fails to do so too is deserving of their fate.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,118

    George Mann
    @sgfmann

    The Times: Trump races ahead in key states after
    shooting #TomorrowsPapersToday


    Will Dems back off now from moving Biden out of the way because no one else serious wants to run this cycle after the last few days?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,275
    Foxy said:

    Maggie Haberman
    @maggieNYT

    Hillbilly Elegy will get another print run after Vance's selection

    It's an interesting book at times, but mostly it blames the poor for being poor. After all, Vance escaped so anyone who fails to do so too is deserving of their fate.
    You would prefer they find a scapegoat?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited July 15


    George Mann
    @sgfmann

    The Times: Trump races ahead in key states after
    shooting #TomorrowsPapersToday


    Will Dems back off now from moving Biden out of the way because no one else serious wants to run this cycle after the last few days?

    Moving Biden out of the way was already going nowhere, if Biden doesn't want to go then they can't force him to.

    There are plenty of capable Dems who would jump at the chance to be the nominee even if they only had a 2% chance of winning. In reality if the Dems were able to substitute Whitmer/Buttigeig/KLOBUCHAR the race would be more like a toss-up.

    And if Biden runs and loses then that's the end of Kamala's career anyhow, so she would totally be up for it.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Foxy said:

    Maggie Haberman
    @maggieNYT

    Hillbilly Elegy will get another print run after Vance's selection

    It's an interesting book at times, but mostly it blames the poor for being poor. After all, Vance escaped so anyone who fails to do so too is deserving of their fate.
    You would prefer they find a scapegoat?
    You think that poor people who do not cease to be poor, are scapegoating if they blame anything except themselves?
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 976

    Presumably if Trump gets elected* the Ukrainians will take off the strait jacket Biden has insisted they wear.

    *Is it elected or re-elected?

    Also if Trump get re-elected will the SCOTUS rule that the 22nd amendment only applies to two CONSECUTIVE terms. And thus Trump can run a third time? It sounds farfetched now but this Supreme Court have already made some whacky rulings and I wouldn't put it past them.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,118
    Foxy said:

    Maggie Haberman
    @maggieNYT

    Hillbilly Elegy will get another print run after Vance's selection

    It's an interesting book at times, but mostly it blames the poor for being poor. After all, Vance escaped so anyone who fails to do so too is deserving of their fate.
    It's been several years since I read it, so I can't recall any detail other than he would not have got out without his grandmother who had character and held things together. It was well written though, that I do remember.

    Might reread it now he is on the brink of being a heartbeat away from holding the nuke codes with a fellow running mate who is old and gets shot at.

  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,987
    Nunu5 said:

    Presumably if Trump gets elected* the Ukrainians will take off the strait jacket Biden has insisted they wear.

    *Is it elected or re-elected?

    Also if Trump get re-elected will the SCOTUS rule that the 22nd amendment only applies to two CONSECUTIVE terms. And thus Trump can run a third time? It sounds farfetched now but this Supreme Court have already made some whacky rulings and I wouldn't put it past them.
    I am already assuming the SCOTUS will find that the 22nd amendment only applies on the thirty-third of February for people who's surname doesn't begin with 'T'. Or their heirs.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,987

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Vance pick is aimed squarely at the rust belt voters.

    That said, didn’t he underperform in his Senate run? Ohio is reliably Republican nowadays but he was run relatively close.

    See the film
    Hillbilly Elegy
    Poor boy made good, single drug addicted mother.
    It's a pretty good book. Trump may have picked the first VP or POTUS candidate who is a genuinely good writer, in..... many decades? Was JFK any good? He wrote Profiles in Courage, but I've no idea if it is any good (but JFK was properly smart and brave and absurdly sexual, he'd have understood my "socks" dilemma)
    Not much of a dilemma.

    ‘Sock or Marilyn?’

    Strokes chin thoughtfully.
    The point of my SOCKS story is that if you have excess testosterone, and you need a quick strum, to off load the unneeded extra phwooar, but you don't want to jizz all over your gracious host's bedlinen, a gentleman reaches for a sensible receptacle, and a sock fits the bill, especially if you have quite a wide girth and length, like me and JFK
    Something in me recoils from a tawdry, used sock, and I wouldn’t want to besmirch a nice clean Egyptian Cotton Pantherella. A box of Kleenex seems the pragmatic solution.
    I hear you. It's not perfect, but I am talking *in extremis* here

    I once used the cover of a friend's scatter cushion, and this was in a posh part of BATH, I have never gotten over the shame. Even tho no one ever noticed
    From an old army spoof of Perry Como's Magic Moments:

    "I'll never forget the night that I gave you your first orgasm /
    I wiped my cock on the curtain your mother had a spasm"
    First dirty joke I ever understood: What is the Queen's favourite record?

    Magic moments on Philips 12 inch.
    (In a desperate and probably doomed attempt to raise the tone)

    For a while as a child, my favourite joke went thusly:

    Dear Norris McWhirter,

    I have a disc of black plastic, quite thin and twelve inches in diameter. It has a small hole in the middle and grooves on each side.

    Is this a record?

    (I was easily amused.)
    LOL. But the minimum age for understanding that is probably 50.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXDK3x5lAYI

    "I would like to buy a gramophone - Not The Nine O'Clock News"
This discussion has been closed.