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Sir Ed Davey certainly made a splash today – politicalbetting.com

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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407

    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    The death penalty policy is coming isn't it.
    Bazball ⚾️
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    This is the 'we did well without university so so should the youth' policy.

    Actually I think a lot of people on ehre have criticised some courses that get offered and spoken positively of apprenticeships as a concept, but the devil is in the details - which courses, what apprenticeships, for how long etc?
    Hopefully apprenticeships related to housebuilding….
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    This is the 'we did well without university so so should the youth' policy.

    Actually I think a lot of people on ehre have criticised some courses that get offered and spoken positively of apprenticeships as a concept, but the devil is in the details - which courses, what apprenticeships, for how long etc?
    Hopefully apprenticeships related to housebuilding….
    Issue there is - young people don’t want to do them…
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,286
    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    I suppose that one solution to the desperate university funding crisis is to start closing them down. Another policy that will appeal to the elderly core vote who nearly all left school when they were 14.

    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    The death penalty policy is coming isn't it.
    Little would surprise me at this stage.
    Spare universities could be taken over by the army and become degree apprenticeship military and cyber training academies.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    kle4 said:

    DM_Andy said:


    Scott_xP said:

    @joepike

    NEW: LBC’s @IainDale quits radio to run for Westminster.

    The 61yo unsuccessfully contested North Norfolk for Conservatives in 2005.

    He was chief of staff to David Davis in leadership campaign against David Cameron.

    He’s been broadcasting on LBC since 2010.

    Surely bollocks? He's been distancing from the Tories for years, he's too sane for Reform, too conservative for the Lib Dems and not got the factional backing to stand for Labour.

    He’s going to attempt to become the Tory MP for Royal Tunbridge Wells.
    14.6k majority, winnable certainly, but LDs should do better than even 1997 in that seat, given they had about the same share in 2019 as 1997.

    (In fairness Labour were easy second in 2017)
    I hadn't spotted that Greg Clark had stepped down on Friday. I'm gobsmacked. Holding Tunbridge Wells would be a tough ask, the Lib Dems should be able to squeeze the Labour vote but Iain is a class act and genuinely nice. I would vote for him if he were the Tory candidate in my seat and will start the campaign with name recognition. Question if Iain being parachuted into the seat will annoy anyone else who would have coveted it or think that Iain's not conservative enough.

    Bet365 has Tories at 11/10, might be worth a punt.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    The death penalty policy is coming isn't it.
    I think that's a 40-50% supported policy, so it would be a provably popular one compared to many other suggestions at least.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,698
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    This is the 'we did well without university so so should the youth' policy.

    Actually I think a lot of people on ehre have criticised some courses that get offered and spoken positively of apprenticeships as a concept, but the devil is in the details - which courses, what apprenticeships, for how long etc?
    1 in 8 grandparents now face up to idea that their lovely and "isn't she bright" grandkid isn't going go to university after all.

    Another policy they haven't thought through.

    Is everyone over 65 only interested in themselves?

    I think not.



  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214
    edited May 28
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    Well that’s the university sector destroyed - and those apprenticeships will be crap. You need buy in from employers not a few extra quid…
    The stupid, irresponsible manchild...

    He knows he won't be scrapping anything because there won't be a future Conservative government. And if he doesn't know that, he blooming well should. He's going to invite all current Conservative MPs to do a poo on the Downing Street carpets on July 3, isn't he? Just because he can.

    But we're entering recruitment season, and "we're going to scrap some courses" is the sort of talk that causes a run on confidence which will have a real impact.

    And from a party that claims to believe in letting people get on with lawful persuits? Pass the sickbag, Alice.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,977
    Other policies around uni. The 2-year courses, part-time ones with a job and also making it more attractive not all student move away from home. You can make uni cheaper through these approaches.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    This is the 'we did well without university so so should the youth' policy.

    Actually I think a lot of people on ehre have criticised some courses that get offered and spoken positively of apprenticeships as a concept, but the devil is in the details - which courses, what apprenticeships, for how long etc?
    1 in 8 grandparents now face up to idea that their lovely and "isn't she bright" grandkid isn't going go to university after all.

    Another policy they haven't thought through.

    Is everyone over 65 only interested in themselves?

    I think not.



    Their love is surely not dependent on whether their children or grandchildren go to university.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    Lawyers, civil servants, universities…the catalogue of people Tories don’t like is a thick one. As thick as an Eighties Argos catalogue at least.
    Do you want to defend people paying large sums of money for poor quality degrees?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    This is the 'we did well without university so so should the youth' policy.

    Actually I think a lot of people on ehre have criticised some courses that get offered and spoken positively of apprenticeships as a concept, but the devil is in the details - which courses, what apprenticeships, for how long etc?
    Hopefully apprenticeships related to housebuilding….
    That would be a wasted skill to provide them at present.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited May 28

    My friend @IainDale off to fight Tunbridge Wells for the Tories

    https://x.com/adamboultonTABB/status/1795563986949120122

    Iain would make a great MP but will need to persuade his Party that at age 61 he (like Starmer) is not too old for the job!

    https://x.com/PigsAndPolling/status/1795564675796435433

    I presume he has been selected if he's left his LBC job.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,573
    "£1 of every £4 borrowed by students is never paid back"

    That's got to be on the old plan, surely? On the new plans it must be higher, even accounting for interest and disregarding inflation.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,243
    kle4 said:

    DM_Andy said:


    Scott_xP said:

    @joepike

    NEW: LBC’s @IainDale quits radio to run for Westminster.

    The 61yo unsuccessfully contested North Norfolk for Conservatives in 2005.

    He was chief of staff to David Davis in leadership campaign against David Cameron.

    He’s been broadcasting on LBC since 2010.

    Surely bollocks? He's been distancing from the Tories for years, he's too sane for Reform, too conservative for the Lib Dems and not got the factional backing to stand for Labour.

    He’s going to attempt to become the Tory MP for Royal Tunbridge Wells.
    14.6k majority, winnable certainly, but LDs should do better than even 1997 in that seat, given they had about the same share in 2019 as 1997.

    (In fairness Labour were easy second in 2017)
    The Tunbridge LibDem candidate is a war hero. Last year he fought his way across the Donbas to the Sea of Azov armed only with an orange crayon.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    eek said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    This is the 'we did well without university so so should the youth' policy.

    Actually I think a lot of people on ehre have criticised some courses that get offered and spoken positively of apprenticeships as a concept, but the devil is in the details - which courses, what apprenticeships, for how long etc?
    Hopefully apprenticeships related to housebuilding….
    Issue there is - young people don’t want to do them…
    Can't they be made to volunteer?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Confusing a jury can sometimes work, I suppose.

    A little more than a week ago, on @TheLastWord, I pointed out how Michael Cohen's admission to stealing from the Trump Org contradicts the defense theory of the case.

    They argue Cohen stole the money—and it was legitimately earned.

    Prosecutors skewered that defense today.

    https://nitter.poast.org/KlasfeldReports/status/1795561705038074224#m
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    edited May 28
    carnforth said:

    "£1 of every £4 borrowed by students is never paid back"

    That's got to be on the old plan, surely? On the new plans it must be higher, even accounting for interest and disregarding inflation.

    I was reading about this the other day. On the new plan a higher fraction will be repaid, probably because it is now cancelled after 40 years.
  • Surely if it’s my money I’m spending I can do whatever degree I want.

    This seems incredibly un-Conservative. I suppose I could see the argument (and might support the idea) if they were going to make the remainder free but they’re not.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,656
    When will the Referendum on the death penalty be announced?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,573
    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    "£1 of every £4 borrowed by students is never paid back"

    That's got to be on the old plan, surely? On the new plans it must be higher, even accounting for interest and disregarding inflation.

    I was reading about this the other day. On the new plan a higher fraction will be repaid, probably because it is now cancelled after 40 years.
    You mean cancelled counts as "not unrepaid"? Bizarre..
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,573

    Surely if it’s my money I’m spending I can do whatever degree I want.

    This seems incredibly un-Conservative. I suppose I could see the argument (and might support the idea) if they were going to make the remainder free but they’re not.

    Only your money you're spending if you're likely to pay it back.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    Solicitor Apprentices go to university part-time and get a degree as part of it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    carnforth said:

    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    "£1 of every £4 borrowed by students is never paid back"

    That's got to be on the old plan, surely? On the new plans it must be higher, even accounting for interest and disregarding inflation.

    I was reading about this the other day. On the new plan a higher fraction will be repaid, probably because it is now cancelled after 40 years.
    You mean cancelled counts as "not unrepaid"? Bizarre..
    No, it will now be cancelled after 40 years compared to 35. A longer collection period means more money is collected overall.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Scott_xP said:

    @NatashaC
    Iain Dale bids us farewell after 14 years as he announces he'll be standing to be an MP

    "Now I am putting my hat in the ring again... Whatever the result I feel I can play a role in restoring trust and honesty in politics. I would forever kick myself if I didn't have a go."

    I like Iain Dale and hope he wins which might seem like heresy given I’m a Labour supporter . He certainly would be a welcome addition to parliament and he’s always been very fair on LBC and not frightened to criticize his own party .
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,977
    edited May 28
    The thing is nobody is really talking about the core crucial issues. Things like productivity is a huge problem. When France is smashing you at productivity given when they aren't on strike they are taking the whole of August off, you know something is seriously wrong.

    Instead we are pissing about with putting people in national service or tweaking zero hour contracts so they aren't quite zero hours.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,698
    Rishi Sunak has said he would have opted for military national service rather than volunteering had he been called upon to serve his country.

    Telegraph
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Would cancelling the degrees for apprenticeships held address too many jobs marking degrees as essential criteria when they really are not?
  • carnforth said:

    Surely if it’s my money I’m spending I can do whatever degree I want.

    This seems incredibly un-Conservative. I suppose I could see the argument (and might support the idea) if they were going to make the remainder free but they’re not.

    Only your money you're spending if you're likely to pay it back.
    They’ve changed the rules so now the majority of people will pay it back, yes.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814

    Did Team Sunak literally just do focus groups with GB News viewers to come up with these policies?

    "GB News - Britain's Election Channel!"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    Rishi Sunak has said he would have opted for military national service rather than volunteering had he been called upon to serve his country.

    Telegraph

    The call was always there if he had wished.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    The death penalty policy is coming isn't it.
    Bazball ⚾️
    They should do it, just for the lolz. And I'd vote for it, for equal bantz
  • I’d consider voting for a Tory party led by Iain Dale.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728

    What's going on here then?

    Diane Abbott has been readmitted as a Labour MP, the BBC understands, but it is unclear whether she will stand for the party at the general election.

    The former shadow home secretary was suspended in April 2023 after saying Jewish, Irish and Traveller people do not face racism "all their lives".

    Her suspension meant she would not be able to stand for Labour on 4 July.

    Party officials had tried to broker a deal by which she would get the whip back in return for standing down.

    It is not clear if the Hackney North and Stoke Newington MP has accepted that arrangement.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-69040616

    But since Parliament has been prorogued, there aren't any MPs any more, are there?

    Not officially dissolved until 30th - so everyone who was one is still an MP until then.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814

    Rishi Sunak has said he would have opted for military national service rather than volunteering had he been called upon to serve his country.

    Telegraph

    "Aren't you a little short to be a Stormtrooper?"
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    Lawyers, civil servants, universities…the catalogue of people Tories don’t like is a thick one. As thick as an Eighties Argos catalogue at least.
    Do you want to defend people paying large sums of money for poor quality degrees?
    Have you heard of capitalism? People choose what to spend money on. Maybe they make poor choices, maybe they don't, but it's up to them.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,656

    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    The death penalty policy is coming isn't it.
    Can I nominate SKS?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    I’ve mentioned this before.

    I am, as you know and love to mock, a lawyer. I mostly do employment law but had a bit of a sideline in business visas for my clients. Became a big earner post-Brexit. I ran a really anodyne, boring, Twitter account advertising myself as an “Employment and Business Immigration Lawyer” as the Marketing Dept got keen on social media. Nothing political, stupefyingly dull, updates on legal changes, I got to a measly 500 followers - mostly other lawyers. My big moment was being retweeted by Joshua Rosenberg. I tweeted really dull stuff the PR team suggested, avoiding politics.

    However, starting in about 2014 or 2015, I started getting abuse. Snide comments at first, then over time they started to get more personal, and then, in 2022, I became of of these lawyers -

    https://www.joe.co.uk/news/rwanda-death-threats-sent-to-lefty-lawyers-unacceptable-downing-street-says-342272

    The worst actual DM a threat of comedy death, the guy had imagination, but it directly referenced Rwanda. Others referenced Patel’s speeches. Eventually I closed the account anyway - before Braverman. I don’t do any asylum work, the immigration practice I had was visas for complained and HNWI’s, the sort of people “Global Britain” was supposed to be attracting, but nevertheless I was clearly an enemy of the people.

    Tories also hate me because I’m married to a foreigner. My specific foreigner is a white Irish-American New Englander but, nevertheless, the hoops we have had to jump through regarding her immigration status have grown increasingly tighter. Now she’s just taken dual nationality the issues will have stopped but we met when I was a student and we would not be allowed to get married now.

    So, if not me, then the Tories don’t want “people like me” to vote for them. So I won’t.

    I’m not really a “victim”. Others have it far worse than me. The list of people Tories hate is long. But you can see why I can’t see myself as the the sort of person they’re gunning for.

    You are a good person Doug and I am glad to have you posting here. I am sorry for the way you have been treated.
    Good for you. Until enough of us stand together and say "No more, this far and no more, there can be no more slightly mad and weird threats on social media against wealthy people" then these slightly mad and weird threats on social media against wealthy people will inexorably continue and possibly WORSEN until millionaire lawyers with their rich Boston born wives become slightly anxious before lunch. And the people in Ukraine think they have it bad?

    This, this here. This is where we must finally stand, and turn, and FIGHT

    DEFEND THE WEALTHY IMMIGRATION LAWYERS
    IIRC it was you who pointed out that most people live their lives online these days. I don't like it but that's how it's gone. We used to believe that we lived in a country where most people thought like us, for any given definition of "us". But now we have access to social media and now we know that for any given definition of "us" there will be people who hate us and want us dead, and that there are people in other countries who think more like "us" than our compatriots. This leads to a loosening of the nation-state and a growth in anxiety, both of which I hate.
    Well yes maybe whatever: but the last people I will feel sorry for, in this context, is very wealthy lefty immigration lawyers

    I do not personally wish ill on @dougseal, of course, but I cannot find it in me to feel deep sinks of sympathy
    In which case, why bother commenting? Unless, of course, you are a troublemaking arsehole. You should get a job with some right wing rag like the Spectator.
    Sadly, writing for the world's most prestigious and longest running English language magazine - the Spectator - is very much out of my league. I leave that to its various famous contributors, like Graham Greene, George Orwell, @SeanT, Alexander Pope, Sylvia Plath, sundry Prime Ministers and Chancellors, and Lionel Shriver. And Taki. For me it is the humble Knapper's Gazette, but maybe one day. Who knows?
    It's a shitty rag wherein 87.4% of its writers are pretty standard journeymen churning out pedestrian prose which panders to and stokes the prejudices of the red cord-wearing rural types you enjoy making fun of so much yet of whom for some unaccountable reason you are in awe.

    12.6% of its writers get the joke and manage to turn out great prose which laughs at that demographic without it being obvious.

    Despite your huge self-regard in particular when you come onto PB to parade your supposed sophistication to the yokels, you are comfortably in the former group.

    You actually took the pains to redirect that to a new post, bless

    If you're aiming for @SeanT he has I believed moved on, anyway, and now writes for Unherd

    https://tinyurl.com/54baud5z

    What care I? I write for the Knapper's Gazette and I do not aim for such heights, the Spectator was the favourite magazine of Ted Hughes, T S Eliot, e e Cummings, and Evelyn Waugh, I am but a knapper
    FFS why do you persist with this inane charade?

    I understand you need to distance yourself from some of your more extreme drunken comments on here to avoid becoming persona non grata with your publishers but really, you can do that without maintaining this fairytale.
    Unless, unless Leon really is being stalked by a weirdo who posts on twitter…
    I’m afraid the worst thing is CHB now thinks it’s a ‘cool’ thing to do too. It isn’t.
    Well, quite
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,573
    edited May 28
    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    "£1 of every £4 borrowed by students is never paid back"

    That's got to be on the old plan, surely? On the new plans it must be higher, even accounting for interest and disregarding inflation.

    I was reading about this the other day. On the new plan a higher fraction will be repaid, probably because it is now cancelled after 40 years.
    You mean cancelled counts as "not unrepaid"? Bizarre..
    No, it will now be cancelled after 40 years compared to 35. A longer collection period means more money is collected overall.
    Mine (plan 1) is cancelled at age 65. I thought plan 2 was cancelled after 25 years. Never heard of 35 or 40.

    Also, if I borrow £40k and pay back £40k (but don't pay it off, due to interest) does that count as "£4 of every £4 borrowed by students is ever paid back". It's not a very useful phrasing...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    We talked about this the other day. The solution is the opposite you put your thumb on the scale to incentivise the likes of STEM. The problem at the moment is every degree is the essentially priced the same, so why run very expensive Chemistry degree when you can run some bollock for 1/3 of the price.

    If I remember correctly, Chemistry is a particular degree that is not available at a large number of universities, even some higher ranked ones. It because it is super expensive to run. But of course the UK needs chemists, what they do is highly valuable.

    Speaking as a chemistry grad and PhD I have often wondered how many chemists the U.K. actually needs. Certainly the degree is excellent training for a wide range of careers, but actual chemistry jobs? Less than you would think.
    I consider myself lucky to still be in the game, as it were.
  • Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    The death penalty policy is coming isn't it.
    Can I nominate SKS?
    What the fuck is wrong with you. Fuck off, you’re a child.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,698

    Rishi Sunak has said he would have opted for military national service rather than volunteering had he been called upon to serve his country.

    Telegraph

    "Aren't you a little short to be a Stormtrooper?"
    His trench wouldn't have to be dug as deep as the others.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    @paulhutcheon

    📈NEW: General election poll shows the SNP slumping to 16 seats in Scotland and Labour rising to 28.

    The Survation poll, commissioned by True North, also reveals John Swinney is less popular than Anas Sarwar and Keir Starmer.

    https://x.com/paulhutcheon/status/1795568233430589492
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    When will the Referendum on the death penalty be announced?

    I’m not sure that’s on the list. It’s not sufficiently discriminatory against young people. Corporal punishment would be more on brand. Bring back the cane and slipper.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,656

    I’d consider voting for a Tory party led by Iain Dale.

    Not over the one led by SKS surely?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    Rishi Sunak has said he would have opted for military national service rather than volunteering had he been called upon to serve his country.

    Telegraph

    They’re all saying that when asked because there is no other possible Tory answer.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,977
    Is any political party even addressing the threat of AI? Now I am not Leon level hype (as I actually work in the business so I have slightly more knowledge of the limitations), but it is undeniable is going to change the world of work and that is already happening. To totally ignore it foolhardy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    📈NEW: General election poll shows the SNP slumping to 16 seats in Scotland and Labour rising to 28.

    The Survation poll, commissioned by True North, also reveals John Swinney is less popular than Anas Sarwar and Keir Starmer.

    https://x.com/paulhutcheon/status/1795568233430589492

    Hooray!

    I don't even remember the days less than 15 years ago when the SNP did not dominate Scotland at Westminster.

    (In fairness to them it will have been easy for everyone to ignore them back then)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    The death penalty policy is coming isn't it.
    Bazball ⚾️
    They should do it, just for the lolz. And I'd vote for it, for equal bantz
    And now you're trying to do an ersatz Dura. Jeez Louise.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    edited May 28
    carnforth said:

    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    "£1 of every £4 borrowed by students is never paid back"

    That's got to be on the old plan, surely? On the new plans it must be higher, even accounting for interest and disregarding inflation.

    I was reading about this the other day. On the new plan a higher fraction will be repaid, probably because it is now cancelled after 40 years.
    You mean cancelled counts as "not unrepaid"? Bizarre..
    No, it will now be cancelled after 40 years compared to 35. A longer collection period means more money is collected overall.
    Mine (plan 1) is cancelled at age 65. I thought plan 2 was cancelled after 25 years. Never heard of 35 or 40.

    Also, if I borrow £40k and pay back £40k (but don't pay it off, due to interest) does that count as "£4 of every £4 borrowed by students is ever paid back". It's not a very useful phrasing...
    Check out the graphic in part 5 here:

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-england-plan-5/?__cf_chl_tk=2kYiGfNFHKftGfedLE7xOLkOyPxGFWPP0.4CG8_WJrQ-1716931744-0.0.1.1-1727

    Looks as though £4 of £5 in the new scheme is eventually repaid.

    To answer your question, I think so, yes (probably with some form of inflation adjustment?)
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780


    Christopher Hope📝

    @christopherhope
    I am just back from interviewing Rachel Reeves for GB News. It is extraordinary how Labour is so cautious on its plans and the Tories are not.
    Labour says there will be no increases in income tax, NICs or corporation tax, nor any wealth taxes.
    Meanwhile Conservatives spray around cash on pensions and national service etc
    It is like the roles played by the partes in the 2017/2019 campaigns (remember Jeremy Corbyn's 'magic money tree') are reversed.
    I was struck too by Reeves - standing in front of a podium saying "change" - telling her audience of business leaders today: "Stability is change." #GE2024

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/1795540585471705343

    It is not only extraordinary but also alarmingly poor politics. Labour are running far too timid a campaign at a point in time when the country wants to be given a bit of hope. The saving grace for Labour is that country is so determined to get rid of the Conservatives that they will win big regardless, with people voting for Labour in the hope that they surely will do much more than they feel they can reveal.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,656
    TimS said:

    When will the Referendum on the death penalty be announced?

    I’m not sure that’s on the list. It’s not sufficiently discriminatory against young people. Corporal punishment would be more on brand. Bring back the cane and slipper.
    I suffered the slipper twice

    I was Abel to avoid the cane
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,977
    edited May 28

    We talked about this the other day. The solution is the opposite you put your thumb on the scale to incentivise the likes of STEM. The problem at the moment is every degree is the essentially priced the same, so why run very expensive Chemistry degree when you can run some bollock for 1/3 of the price.

    If I remember correctly, Chemistry is a particular degree that is not available at a large number of universities, even some higher ranked ones. It because it is super expensive to run. But of course the UK needs chemists, what they do is highly valuable.

    Speaking as a chemistry grad and PhD I have often wondered how many chemists the U.K. actually needs. Certainly the degree is excellent training for a wide range of careers, but actual chemistry jobs? Less than you would think.
    I consider myself lucky to still be in the game, as it were.
    That is quite surprising. I always thought it was under served in the same way as we don't train enough engineers. It appears we are down to about ~50 that run some sort of chemistry course these days.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814

    I’d consider voting for a Tory party led by Iain Dale.

    Not over the one led by SKS surely?
    ToryJohnOwls
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    I know it's been covered but a teensy weensy slip up by His Holiness.

    Not the very slightest bit surprising.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,938

    Surely if it’s my money I’m spending I can do whatever degree I want.

    This seems incredibly un-Conservative. I suppose I could see the argument (and might support the idea) if they were going to make the remainder free but they’re not.

    Indeed. It's as I was saying earlier, I'm generally guided by the principle of giving people the freedom to do what they want. If people want to spend however much money on a degree in 13th century Mongolian pottery studies, so what? It's their money, not Rishi's.

    While many people go to university to study to improve their employment prospects, some may be there to enrich themselves and learn more about the things that interest them.

    Are philosophy students inherently employable? Probably not. Should the government be allowed to end the teaching of philosophy at undergraduate level because not enough philosophy students end up in high paying graduate jobs?

    It's more mindless authoritarianism dressed up as "common sense".
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    Rishi Sunak has said he would have opted for military national service rather than volunteering had he been called upon to serve his country.

    Telegraph

    "Aren't you a little short to be a Stormtrooper?"
    His trench wouldn't have to be dug as deep as the others.
    I recall reading about the bantams in WW1.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    Rishi Sunak has said he would have opted for military national service rather than volunteering had he been called upon to serve his country.

    Telegraph

    I don't believe it, not as a squaddie private anyway.

  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    The thing is nobody is really talking about the core crucial issues. Things like productivity is a huge problem. When France is smashing you at productivity given when they aren't on strike they are taking the whole of August off, you know something is seriously wrong.

    Instead we are pissing about with putting people in national service or tweaking zero hour contracts so they aren't quite zero hours.

    Productivity requires investing in machinery, software and training.

    Guess what that requires = money and money spent on investment is profit that doesn’t go to shareholders. Hence few companies invest enough…
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    Rishi Sunak has said he would have opted for military national service rather than volunteering had he been called upon to serve his country.

    Telegraph

    Dear me it really is vomit inducing . Does anyone believe this nauseating claptrap from Sunak ? He can barely lift a tin of beans , a rucksack would see him hospitalized !
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,573
    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    RobD said:

    carnforth said:

    "£1 of every £4 borrowed by students is never paid back"

    That's got to be on the old plan, surely? On the new plans it must be higher, even accounting for interest and disregarding inflation.

    I was reading about this the other day. On the new plan a higher fraction will be repaid, probably because it is now cancelled after 40 years.
    You mean cancelled counts as "not unrepaid"? Bizarre..
    No, it will now be cancelled after 40 years compared to 35. A longer collection period means more money is collected overall.
    Mine (plan 1) is cancelled at age 65. I thought plan 2 was cancelled after 25 years. Never heard of 35 or 40.

    Also, if I borrow £40k and pay back £40k (but don't pay it off, due to interest) does that count as "£4 of every £4 borrowed by students is ever paid back". It's not a very useful phrasing...
    Check out the graphic in part 5 here:

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-england-plan-5/?__cf_chl_tk=2kYiGfNFHKftGfedLE7xOLkOyPxGFWPP0.4CG8_WJrQ-1716931744-0.0.1.1-1727

    Looks as though £4 of £5 in the new scheme is eventually repaid.

    To answer your question, I think so, yes (probably with some form of inflation adjustment?)
    Thanks. Since it's now just RPI, the interest and inflation cancel to 0, so the phrasing indeed makes sense.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,698

    Surely if it’s my money I’m spending I can do whatever degree I want.

    This seems incredibly un-Conservative. I suppose I could see the argument (and might support the idea) if they were going to make the remainder free but they’re not.

    The problem is the government eventually writes off the loan to do a course for students who don't earn enough in later life.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986

    It is not only extraordinary but also alarmingly poor politics. Labour are running far too timid a campaign at a point in time when the country wants to be given a bit of hope.

    It's proper expectation management.

    Labour are determined not to promise anything they don't think they can deliver.

    Tories are offering the moon on a stick. It's a cargo cult tribute to the Brexit campaign, targeting the same voter pool.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited May 28
    Well at least Sir Ed brought some colour to the campaign today when falling off his paddle board (otherwise it would have been Farage ranting about the boats in a pub). Better than Starmer and Sunak wandering around factories all day with workers bored witless listening to them rambling on when they should be getting on with their work.

    What happened to campaign rallies and meeting voters in the street and getting on your soapbox?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    Scott_xP said:

    One in eight university degree places would be scrapped under a future Conservative government and the funding diverted into apprenticeships, Rishi Sunak will pledge on Wednesday.

    In a crackdown on so-called Mickey Mouse courses, Sunak will accuse universities of “ripping young people off” by offering degree places that do not increase their long-term earnings potential.

    Instead Sunak will say the money should be spent creating an extra 100,000 apprenticeships by the end of the next parliament.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-university-degrees-end-value-money-2tw2mjgkj

    The one in eight might be an interesting shift if done thoughtfully, as part of a wider package.

    Does anyone know whether Rishi's Tory Party Leadership do thought?
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,806


    Christopher Hope📝

    @christopherhope
    I am just back from interviewing Rachel Reeves for GB News. It is extraordinary how Labour is so cautious on its plans and the Tories are not.
    Labour says there will be no increases in income tax, NICs or corporation tax, nor any wealth taxes.
    Meanwhile Conservatives spray around cash on pensions and national service etc
    It is like the roles played by the partes in the 2017/2019 campaigns (remember Jeremy Corbyn's 'magic money tree') are reversed.
    I was struck too by Reeves - standing in front of a podium saying "change" - telling her audience of business leaders today: "Stability is change." #GE2024

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/1795540585471705343

    It is not only extraordinary but also alarmingly poor politics. Labour are running far too timid a campaign at a point in time when the country wants to be given a bit of hope. The saving grace for Labour is that country is so determined to get rid of the Conservatives that they will win big regardless, with people voting for Labour in the hope that they surely will do much more than they feel they can reveal.
    I’ve been saying this would happen for years. Starmer is refighting 1997 when the country is ready for a bolder offer.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,977
    edited May 28


    Christopher Hope📝

    @christopherhope
    I am just back from interviewing Rachel Reeves for GB News. It is extraordinary how Labour is so cautious on its plans and the Tories are not.
    Labour says there will be no increases in income tax, NICs or corporation tax, nor any wealth taxes.
    Meanwhile Conservatives spray around cash on pensions and national service etc
    It is like the roles played by the partes in the 2017/2019 campaigns (remember Jeremy Corbyn's 'magic money tree') are reversed.
    I was struck too by Reeves - standing in front of a podium saying "change" - telling her audience of business leaders today: "Stability is change." #GE2024

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/1795540585471705343

    It is not only extraordinary but also alarmingly poor politics. Labour are running far too timid a campaign at a point in time when the country wants to be given a bit of hope. The saving grace for Labour is that country is so determined to get rid of the Conservatives that they will win big regardless, with people voting for Labour in the hope that they surely will do much more than they feel they can reveal.
    I’ve been saying this would happen for years. Starmer is refighting 1997 when the country is ready for a bolder offer.
    Blair offered a lot more bold vision than Starmer (so far). I mean we talked about the 2024 pledge card, 6500 new teachers over 5 years, its literally a rounding error against the 450k teachers / 40k leave every year (and less than the increase this year).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    HYUFD said:

    Well at least Sir Ed brought some colour to the campaign today when falling off his paddle board (otherwise it would have been Farage ranting about the boats in a pub). Better than Starmer and Sunak wandering around factories all day with workers bored whitless listening to them rambling on when they should be getting on with their work.

    What happened to campaign rallies and meeting voters in the street and getting on your soapbox?

    Too risky.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,602
    nico679 said:

    Rishi Sunak has said he would have opted for military national service rather than volunteering had he been called upon to serve his country.

    Telegraph

    Dear me it really is vomit inducing . Does anyone believe this nauseating claptrap from Sunak ? He can barely lift a tin of beans , a rucksack would see him hospitalized !
    He ran a 10km in a respectable 47 minutes

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fit-for-office-rishi-sunak-runs-northallerton-10k-6vzl7d38z
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,698
    nico679 said:

    Rishi Sunak has said he would have opted for military national service rather than volunteering had he been called upon to serve his country.

    Telegraph

    Dear me it really is vomit inducing . Does anyone believe this nauseating claptrap from Sunak ? He can barely lift a tin of beans , a rucksack would see him hospitalized !
    Did he do cadets at Winchester?

    First I have heard if he did.

    It is such utter bullshit it is as you say vomit-inducing.

    He's making May look like JFK as a running candidate.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,698
    Foxy said:

    Rishi Sunak has said he would have opted for military national service rather than volunteering had he been called upon to serve his country.

    Telegraph

    I don't believe it, not as a squaddie private anyway.

    Is there a National Service option where you become Lord Kitchener from day one?

    Otherwise he's not interested.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    Thing is the Tories are being true to their long standing form. They talk about all sorts of stuff. Blah blah blah. They never actually fucking do anything.

    Levelling up? Nice chat, nothing to show for it. And the national service plan funded by stripping out most of the remaining levelling up fund. Infrastructure? Good news if you live in Old Oak Common and want to get to Birmingham. Groundbreaking trade deals? We can now buy Vegemite. The one thing they deliver on, year after year, is the pensions triple lock.

    All of which is probably very reassuring if you’re a 17 year old wondering about national
    service or a people smuggler finalising the 9+3 budget for this summer’s crossings.

    God I hope they are absolutely thrashed in June.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    kyf_100 said:

    Surely if it’s my money I’m spending I can do whatever degree I want.

    This seems incredibly un-Conservative. I suppose I could see the argument (and might support the idea) if they were going to make the remainder free but they’re not.

    Indeed. It's as I was saying earlier, I'm generally guided by the principle of giving people the freedom to do what they want. If people want to spend however much money on a degree in 13th century Mongolian pottery studies, so what? It's their money, not Rishi's.

    While many people go to university to study to improve their employment prospects, some may be there to enrich themselves and learn more about the things that interest them.

    Are philosophy students inherently employable? Probably not. Should the government be allowed to end the teaching of philosophy at undergraduate level because not enough philosophy students end up in high paying graduate jobs?

    It's more mindless authoritarianism dressed up as "common sense".
    Absolutely.
    If the state thinks more people should be studying STEM (which doesn't strike me as an unreasonable position) perhaps it can subsidise the studying of it (also doesn't seem an unreasonable position). But if there's a market for people studying English Literature, and good academics are keen to provide that service - well, great.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,977
    edited May 28
    I reckon what happened is when Sunak did that GB News direct thing. They had minions go out into the audience and ask for policy ideas.....and that is the Tory manifesto.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    edited May 28

    Is any political party even addressing the threat of AI? Now I am not Leon level hype (as I actually work in the business so I have slightly more knowledge of the limitations), but it is undeniable is going to change the world of work and that is already happening. To totally ignore it foolhardy.

    Well the main parties are broadly ignoring the war in Ukraine and threat from Russia, with very modest plans (if that) when it should be imperative to rapidly and substantially increase defence spending, and the main parties are broadly ignoring Climate Change with pushing back dates and guff like GB Energy, so I'm sure they can manage to stick their heads in the sand about AI as well.

    They will though spend a huge amount of time on essentially trivial and marginal issues that will barely make any meaningful difference from what the other party would have done.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    We talked about this the other day. The solution is the opposite you put your thumb on the scale to incentivise the likes of STEM. The problem at the moment is every degree is the essentially priced the same, so why run very expensive Chemistry degree when you can run some bollock for 1/3 of the price.

    If I remember correctly, Chemistry is a particular degree that is not available at a large number of universities, even some higher ranked ones. It because it is super expensive to run. But of course the UK needs chemists, what they do is highly valuable.

    Speaking as a chemistry grad and PhD I have often wondered how many chemists the U.K. actually needs. Certainly the degree is excellent training for a wide range of careers, but actual chemistry jobs? Less than you would think.
    I consider myself lucky to still be in the game, as it were.
    That is quite surprising. I always thought it was under served in the same way as we don't train enough engineers. It appears we are down to about ~50 that run some sort of chemistry course these days.

    We talked about this the other day. The solution is the opposite you put your thumb on the scale to incentivise the likes of STEM. The problem at the moment is every degree is the essentially priced the same, so why run very expensive Chemistry degree when you can run some bollock for 1/3 of the price.

    If I remember correctly, Chemistry is a particular degree that is not available at a large number of universities, even some higher ranked ones. It because it is super expensive to run. But of course the UK needs chemists, what they do is highly valuable.

    Speaking as a chemistry grad and PhD I have often wondered how many chemists the U.K. actually needs. Certainly the degree is excellent training for a wide range of careers, but actual chemistry jobs? Less than you would think.
    I consider myself lucky to still be in the game, as it were.
    That is quite surprising. I always thought it was under served in the same way as we don't train enough engineers. It appears we are down to about ~50 that run some sort of chemistry course these days.
    Limited jobs in synthetic chemistry as most is not not U.K. based. Chemical engineers are a separate degree. Analytical chemistry will be fairly large. Food chemistry, for sure but honestly I would steer teenagers towards engineering not chemistry unless they have a burning desire for the subject (I did and still do, thankfully).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    kyf_100 said:

    Surely if it’s my money I’m spending I can do whatever degree I want.

    This seems incredibly un-Conservative. I suppose I could see the argument (and might support the idea) if they were going to make the remainder free but they’re not.

    Indeed. It's as I was saying earlier, I'm generally guided by the principle of giving people the freedom to do what they want. If people want to spend however much money on a degree in 13th century Mongolian pottery studies, so what? It's their money, not Rishi's.

    While many people go to university to study to improve their employment prospects, some may be there to enrich themselves and learn more about the things that interest them.

    Are philosophy students inherently employable? Probably not. Should the government be allowed to end the teaching of philosophy at undergraduate level because not enough philosophy students end up in high paying graduate jobs?

    It's more mindless authoritarianism dressed up as "common sense".
    I don’t think it’s accurate to say it’s their/your money. Isn’t there a subsidy to the HE sector paid to universities by the government?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,067
    Libdem-HA
    Libdem-HA
    Libdem-HA

    For the glory of Lib-tar!
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    nico679 said:

    Rishi Sunak has said he would have opted for military national service rather than volunteering had he been called upon to serve his country.

    Telegraph

    Dear me it really is vomit inducing . Does anyone believe this nauseating claptrap from Sunak ? He can barely lift a tin of beans , a rucksack would see him hospitalized !
    He ran a 10km in a respectable 47 minutes

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fit-for-office-rishi-sunak-runs-northallerton-10k-6vzl7d38z
    Being that thin means you generally can be pretty good at those distances . But as for seeing him in the army, no he needs to bulk up !
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,698
    TimS said:

    Thing is the Tories are being true to their long standing form. They talk about all sorts of stuff. Blah blah blah. They never actually fucking do anything.

    Levelling up? Nice chat, nothing to show for it. And the national service plan funded by stripping out most of the remaining levelling up fund. Infrastructure? Good news if you live in Old Oak Common and want to get to Birmingham. Groundbreaking trade deals? We can now buy Vegemite. The one thing they deliver on, year after year, is the pensions triple lock.

    All of which is probably very reassuring if you’re a 17 year old wondering about national
    service or a people smuggler finalising the 9+3 budget for this summer’s crossings.

    God I hope they are absolutely thrashed in June.

    And yet still they can poll at least 20% and probably end up nearer 30 by July.

    What a country.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Believe that Gen. Macarthur took (at least) two takes, thus more than one wading through the surf at Leyte in 1944, to redeem his "I shall return" pledge to the Filipino people.

    "I shall return" sounds like a likely slogan for Ed Davey also. Depending on how he delivers it.

    However, unless the Lib Dems can (once again) get PB's own BlancheLivermore to handle delivery, may NOT be best to entrust it to . . . wait for it . . . the PO?
  • nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Rishi Sunak has said he would have opted for military national service rather than volunteering had he been called upon to serve his country.

    Telegraph

    Dear me it really is vomit inducing . Does anyone believe this nauseating claptrap from Sunak ? He can barely lift a tin of beans , a rucksack would see him hospitalized !
    He ran a 10km in a respectable 47 minutes

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fit-for-office-rishi-sunak-runs-northallerton-10k-6vzl7d38z
    Being that thin means you generally can be pretty good at those distances . But as for seeing him in the army, no he needs to bulk up !
    Nah to be fair 47 minutes is a very decent time in the 10K. That’s faster than me.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,513

    We talked about this the other day. The solution is the opposite you put your thumb on the scale to incentivise the likes of STEM. The problem at the moment is every degree is the essentially priced the same, so why run very expensive Chemistry degree when you can run some bollock for 1/3 of the price.

    If I remember correctly, Chemistry is a particular degree that is not available at a large number of universities, even some higher ranked ones. It because it is super expensive to run. But of course the UK needs chemists, what they do is highly valuable.

    Speaking as a chemistry grad and PhD I have often wondered how many chemists the U.K. actually needs. Certainly the degree is excellent training for a wide range of careers, but actual chemistry jobs? Less than you would think.
    I consider myself lucky to still be in the game, as it were.
    A son of a cousin of mine got a PhD in nuclear physics. He works in banking.
  • RobD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Surely if it’s my money I’m spending I can do whatever degree I want.

    This seems incredibly un-Conservative. I suppose I could see the argument (and might support the idea) if they were going to make the remainder free but they’re not.

    Indeed. It's as I was saying earlier, I'm generally guided by the principle of giving people the freedom to do what they want. If people want to spend however much money on a degree in 13th century Mongolian pottery studies, so what? It's their money, not Rishi's.

    While many people go to university to study to improve their employment prospects, some may be there to enrich themselves and learn more about the things that interest them.

    Are philosophy students inherently employable? Probably not. Should the government be allowed to end the teaching of philosophy at undergraduate level because not enough philosophy students end up in high paying graduate jobs?

    It's more mindless authoritarianism dressed up as "common sense".
    I don’t think it’s accurate to say it’s their/your money. Isn’t there a subsidy to the HE sector paid to universities by the government?
    Oh so when I paid off my student loan you’re saying it wasn’t my money?
  • Labour with a new push tonight too: They’re vowing to hit the 18 week NHS treatment target within five years

    The official NHS target is for 92% of patients to be treated in 18 weeks. Hasn’t been hit for best part of decade. Has been sub 60% for last year

    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1795572475952329065
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited May 28

    Scott_xP said:

    @joepike

    NEW: LBC’s @IainDale quits radio to run for Westminster.

    The 61yo unsuccessfully contested North Norfolk for Conservatives in 2005.

    He was chief of staff to David Davis in leadership campaign against David Cameron.

    He’s been broadcasting on LBC since 2010.

    Before that he used to front a niche internet TV station called Doughty Street. Very watchable in its day.
    It was great - provocative but quite civilised, and alumni have gone interesting ways.

    Mike Rowse the techie has been (I think) Cabinet Member for Transport at Worcestershire, arguing on Con Home for the value of electric bikes, and supporting use of things like School Streets and I think 20mph limits, based on local demand - I'm more top down on that. Solid and community focused. Wrote an *excellent* column for my blog, as did Mark Pack (who never told me any LD secrets I had not found myself but was very good as we all know).

    A little too supportive of chicane barriers on too many urban cycle through paths for my liking but that was mainly the predecessor (imo and ime that forces cyclists back onto roads - in Ashfield onto the bypass narrow shared footpaths - by making them less attractive and undermines useability).

    Freddie Gray who took over running it is doing interviews for I think the Telegraph, and at a couple of other places (Unherd?).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627


    Christopher Hope📝

    @christopherhope
    I am just back from interviewing Rachel Reeves for GB News. It is extraordinary how Labour is so cautious on its plans and the Tories are not.
    Labour says there will be no increases in income tax, NICs or corporation tax, nor any wealth taxes.
    Meanwhile Conservatives spray around cash on pensions and national service etc
    It is like the roles played by the partes in the 2017/2019 campaigns (remember Jeremy Corbyn's 'magic money tree') are reversed.
    I was struck too by Reeves - standing in front of a podium saying "change" - telling her audience of business leaders today: "Stability is change." #GE2024

    https://x.com/christopherhope/status/1795540585471705343

    It is not only extraordinary but also alarmingly poor politics. Labour are running far too timid a campaign at a point in time when the country wants to be given a bit of hope. The saving grace for Labour is that country is so determined to get rid of the Conservatives that they will win big regardless, with people voting for Labour in the hope that they surely will do much more than they feel they can reveal.
    I think too timid too.

    The reason surely is that Labour are very likely to be the next government and will be expected to deliver, while the Tories can promise the moon on a stick, paid for by bottled sunshine because they know they won't have to deliver.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    RobD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Surely if it’s my money I’m spending I can do whatever degree I want.

    This seems incredibly un-Conservative. I suppose I could see the argument (and might support the idea) if they were going to make the remainder free but they’re not.

    Indeed. It's as I was saying earlier, I'm generally guided by the principle of giving people the freedom to do what they want. If people want to spend however much money on a degree in 13th century Mongolian pottery studies, so what? It's their money, not Rishi's.

    While many people go to university to study to improve their employment prospects, some may be there to enrich themselves and learn more about the things that interest them.

    Are philosophy students inherently employable? Probably not. Should the government be allowed to end the teaching of philosophy at undergraduate level because not enough philosophy students end up in high paying graduate jobs?

    It's more mindless authoritarianism dressed up as "common sense".
    I don’t think it’s accurate to say it’s their/your money. Isn’t there a subsidy to the HE sector paid to universities by the government?
    Oh so when I paid off my student loan you’re saying it wasn’t my money?
    No, that is not what I am saying. I am questioning the statement that (to paraphrase) it’s their money so they can do what they like with it. If the government is paying a subsidy to the university, and you don’t repay your loan, there is a net cost to the taxpayer for you having taken that course.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    TimS said:

    Thing is the Tories are being true to their long standing form. They talk about all sorts of stuff. Blah blah blah. They never actually fucking do anything.

    Levelling up? Nice chat, nothing to show for it. And the national service plan funded by stripping out most of the remaining levelling up fund. Infrastructure? Good news if you live in Old Oak Common and want to get to Birmingham. Groundbreaking trade deals? We can now buy Vegemite. The one thing they deliver on, year after year, is the pensions triple lock.

    All of which is probably very reassuring if you’re a 17 year old wondering about national
    service or a people smuggler finalising the 9+3 budget for this summer’s crossings.

    God I hope they are absolutely thrashed in June.

    And yet still they can poll at least 20% and probably end up nearer 30 by July.

    What a country.
    Actually I’m being unfair. When faced with urgent national crises they’ve generally let the state or private sector do what’s needed, and they’ve been rather less cowardly with Russia than some peer countries.

    It’s when they have their own ideas requiring a modicum of initiative that things just fall apart.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Rishi Sunak has said he would have opted for military national service rather than volunteering had he been called upon to serve his country.

    Telegraph

    Dear me it really is vomit inducing . Does anyone believe this nauseating claptrap from Sunak ? He can barely lift a tin of beans , a rucksack would see him hospitalized !
    He ran a 10km in a respectable 47 minutes

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fit-for-office-rishi-sunak-runs-northallerton-10k-6vzl7d38z
    Being that thin means you generally can be pretty good at those distances . But as for seeing him in the army, no he needs to bulk up !
    Nah to be fair 47 minutes is a very decent time in the 10K. That’s faster than me.
    I’d say it’s ok, but no great shakes. Running club would put that in the bottom 10% but that’s specifically runners. C.F. to the general public it’s good. (And way better than my best 10K time, but my excuse is that I was built to play front row in rugby, not go running…)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,698

    We talked about this the other day. The solution is the opposite you put your thumb on the scale to incentivise the likes of STEM. The problem at the moment is every degree is the essentially priced the same, so why run very expensive Chemistry degree when you can run some bollock for 1/3 of the price.

    If I remember correctly, Chemistry is a particular degree that is not available at a large number of universities, even some higher ranked ones. It because it is super expensive to run. But of course the UK needs chemists, what they do is highly valuable.

    Speaking as a chemistry grad and PhD I have often wondered how many chemists the U.K. actually needs. Certainly the degree is excellent training for a wide range of careers, but actual chemistry jobs? Less than you would think.
    I consider myself lucky to still be in the game, as it were.
    A son of a cousin of mine got a PhD in nuclear physics. He works in banking.
    Our chemistry teacher at school told us most of his degree course had gone on to be accountants.

    And that was in 1980s.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,067
    edited May 28

    I reckon what happened is when Sunak did that GB News direct thing. They had minions go out into the audience and ask for policy ideas.....and that is the Tory manifesto.

    I know you meant "covert party members posing as members of the public", but I read it as "yellow pill-shaped cyclopoids wearing dungarees and going EEE".

    My version was funnier. :)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    But I thought it was “inevitable” as “all the old Unionists die off”…..

    . Support for independence remains at 45% almost a decade on from the 2014 referendum.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-slump-new-general-election-32909000
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    We talked about this the other day. The solution is the opposite you put your thumb on the scale to incentivise the likes of STEM. The problem at the moment is every degree is the essentially priced the same, so why run very expensive Chemistry degree when you can run some bollock for 1/3 of the price.

    If I remember correctly, Chemistry is a particular degree that is not available at a large number of universities, even some higher ranked ones. It because it is super expensive to run. But of course the UK needs chemists, what they do is highly valuable.

    Speaking as a chemistry grad and PhD I have often wondered how many chemists the U.K. actually needs. Certainly the degree is excellent training for a wide range of careers, but actual chemistry jobs? Less than you would think.
    I consider myself lucky to still be in the game, as it were.
    A son of a cousin of mine got a PhD in nuclear physics. He works in banking.
    Science degrees and PhDs can lead to good careers elsewhere. Most of my degree cohort are nowhere near chemistry now (ok so it’s 30 years on, but even so).
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Surely if it’s my money I’m spending I can do whatever degree I want.

    This seems incredibly un-Conservative. I suppose I could see the argument (and might support the idea) if they were going to make the remainder free but they’re not.

    Indeed. It's as I was saying earlier, I'm generally guided by the principle of giving people the freedom to do what they want. If people want to spend however much money on a degree in 13th century Mongolian pottery studies, so what? It's their money, not Rishi's.

    While many people go to university to study to improve their employment prospects, some may be there to enrich themselves and learn more about the things that interest them.

    Are philosophy students inherently employable? Probably not. Should the government be allowed to end the teaching of philosophy at undergraduate level because not enough philosophy students end up in high paying graduate jobs?

    It's more mindless authoritarianism dressed up as "common sense".
    I don’t think it’s accurate to say it’s their/your money. Isn’t there a subsidy to the HE sector paid to universities by the government?
    Oh so when I paid off my student loan you’re saying it wasn’t my money?
    No, that is not what I am saying. I am questioning the statement that (to paraphrase) it’s their money so they can do what they like with it. If the government is paying a subsidy to the university, and you don’t repay your loan, there is a net cost to the taxpayer for you having taken that course.
    Since the majority of people pay back the loans now, I would say it is their money. Either way, why is it for the government to tell people what to study?
  • nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Rishi Sunak has said he would have opted for military national service rather than volunteering had he been called upon to serve his country.

    Telegraph

    Dear me it really is vomit inducing . Does anyone believe this nauseating claptrap from Sunak ? He can barely lift a tin of beans , a rucksack would see him hospitalized !
    He ran a 10km in a respectable 47 minutes

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fit-for-office-rishi-sunak-runs-northallerton-10k-6vzl7d38z
    Being that thin means you generally can be pretty good at those distances . But as for seeing him in the army, no he needs to bulk up !
    Nah to be fair 47 minutes is a very decent time in the 10K. That’s faster than me.
    I’d say it’s ok, but no great shakes. Running club would put that in the bottom 10% but that’s specifically runners. C.F. to the general public it’s good. (And way better than my best 10K time, but my excuse is that I was built to play front row in rugby, not go running…)
    We’re talking about the average person. The average 10K time is something like an hour. 47 minutes in the public will put you comfortably in the top 10% of runners.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407
    viewcode said:

    Libdem-HA
    Libdem-HA
    Libdem-HA

    For the glory of Lib-tar!

    Oh 'n' their lives again
    Oh 'n their lives will pull us (surd)
    Oh 'n their lives again
    Oh 'n their lives will pull us (surd)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Surely if it’s my money I’m spending I can do whatever degree I want.

    This seems incredibly un-Conservative. I suppose I could see the argument (and might support the idea) if they were going to make the remainder free but they’re not.

    Indeed. It's as I was saying earlier, I'm generally guided by the principle of giving people the freedom to do what they want. If people want to spend however much money on a degree in 13th century Mongolian pottery studies, so what? It's their money, not Rishi's.

    While many people go to university to study to improve their employment prospects, some may be there to enrich themselves and learn more about the things that interest them.

    Are philosophy students inherently employable? Probably not. Should the government be allowed to end the teaching of philosophy at undergraduate level because not enough philosophy students end up in high paying graduate jobs?

    It's more mindless authoritarianism dressed up as "common sense".
    I don’t think it’s accurate to say it’s their/your money. Isn’t there a subsidy to the HE sector paid to universities by the government?
    Oh so when I paid off my student loan you’re saying it wasn’t my money?
    No, that is not what I am saying. I am questioning the statement that (to paraphrase) it’s their money so they can do what they like with it. If the government is paying a subsidy to the university, and you don’t repay your loan, there is a net cost to the taxpayer for you having taken that course.
    Since the majority of people pay back the loans now, I would say it is their money. Either way, why is it for the government to tell people what to study?
    The majority of students starting now, but only just. But that’s not relevant to the point I was making which was about the claim that people should be able to do whatever course they want because it’s their money. If they paid it all upfront, without the subsidy, perhaps.

    Why should the government tell people what to study? Well it does that for most of everyone’s education….
  • Every policy so far has just confirmed the Tories don’t want the votes of young people.

    It might work here but long term they are dooming themselves. One day they might want to think about how best to appeal to voters like me.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Surely if it’s my money I’m spending I can do whatever degree I want.

    This seems incredibly un-Conservative. I suppose I could see the argument (and might support the idea) if they were going to make the remainder free but they’re not.

    Indeed. It's as I was saying earlier, I'm generally guided by the principle of giving people the freedom to do what they want. If people want to spend however much money on a degree in 13th century Mongolian pottery studies, so what? It's their money, not Rishi's.

    While many people go to university to study to improve their employment prospects, some may be there to enrich themselves and learn more about the things that interest them.

    Are philosophy students inherently employable? Probably not. Should the government be allowed to end the teaching of philosophy at undergraduate level because not enough philosophy students end up in high paying graduate jobs?

    It's more mindless authoritarianism dressed up as "common sense".
    I don’t think it’s accurate to say it’s their/your money. Isn’t there a subsidy to the HE sector paid to universities by the government?
    Oh so when I paid off my student loan you’re saying it wasn’t my money?
    No, that is not what I am saying. I am questioning the statement that (to paraphrase) it’s their money so they can do what they like with it. If the government is paying a subsidy to the university, and you don’t repay your loan, there is a net cost to the taxpayer for you having taken that course.
    Since the majority of people pay back the loans now, I would say it is their money. Either way, why is it for the government to tell people what to study?
    The majority of students starting now, but only just. But that’s not relevant to the point I was making which was about the claim that people should be able to do whatever course they want because it’s their money. If they paid it all upfront, without the subsidy, perhaps.

    Why should the government tell people what to study? Well it does that for most of everyone’s education….
    It doesn’t for university education. It’s supposed to be adults making independent decisions. This is a stupid policy.
This discussion has been closed.