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    smithersjones2013smithersjones2013 Posts: 740
    edited March 2014
    fitalass said:

    Pop the chips away, I don't have any salt and vinegar handy. There used to be a regular Conservative poster on here called RikW, and he and Mark Senior used to post up tit for tat just about every Conservative/Libdem councillor resignation that popped in the local news anywhere in the UK BEFORE Ukip were even a feature of local politics. UKIP are playing in the big domestic politics playground now, and that is going to means far more media scrutiny as a result. Just like all the other parties. And to be fair, UKIP have been pretty damn lucky about the lack of media attention when it came to one or two of their former MEP's in the past!

    Given the increasing obsession with navel gazing over the thoughts of local councillors I thought we might widen the scope a little

    BENEFIT cheat councillor Lisa Smiles, who was convicted of conning the local authority out of £2,000, has resigned from both the Labour Party and the city council.

    http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/local/all-news/labour-councillor-quits-sunderland-city-council-after-2-000-benefit-fraud-conviction-1-6416802

    A CONSERVATIVE councillor has resigned from the ruling Tory group on East Riding Council citing "bullying and intimidation" by some of his party colleagues.

    http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Councillor-Nick-Evans-quits-East-Riding-Tory/story-20477508-detail/story.html

    A PROMINENT Tiverton councillor has resigned from the Liberal Democrat Party after he admitted defrauding his own council.

    Kevin Wilson had been a member of the party since its formation in 1988.


    http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co.uk/Fraudster-councillor-quits-Lib-Dems-admitting/story-20489377-detail/story.html

    Funny how the Guardian (and Pb.com) didn't report on these isn't it?

    Well thank you for 'All Our Yesterdays' but the point still applies. I have no problem with scrutiny as long as it is balanced. Of course having had long experience of your posts balance is not something you are familiar with. Now can't you find a way to blame Gordon Brown for this or have you now switched your obsessive 'Hanoi Hannah' style propaganda towards UKIP permanently?

  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2014
    As a Labour supporter, I'm actually glad McCluskey is finally getting tough with the Labour leadership over funding. If making Labour haggle for money drags them away from this nonsense of unnecessarily trying to create a surplus by making poor people poorer and making public services worse, just for the sake of pacifying "the markets", then it's all to the good as far as I'm concerned.
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited March 2014
    AveryLP said:

    Video: RT Anchor Quits On Air

    An American anchor working for state-owned television station Russia Today quit on air on Wednesday. Liz Wahl, in the network's D.C. bureau, said she could no longer be "part of a network that whitewashes the actions of Putin." Wahl said she is the grandchild of Hungarian refugees who fled Soviet oppression



    http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/03/05/rt-anchor-quits-on-air.html

    Will Liz Wahl now be joining Fox News?

    More on Russian tv and free speech ?

    Russian TV anchor is sent to Crimea by her bosses after she says the country's behaviour in Ukraine is 'wrong' during live broadcast

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2573136/Russian-TV-anchor-says-countrys-behaviour-Ukraine-wrong-live-broadcast-sent-Crimea-bosses.html

  • Options
    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    TGOHF said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 6s
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead now three points: CON 34%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%

    Smallest gap since......?
    Is it the curse of Smithson? As soon as Mike started majoring in the 'voteless recovery' the legendary crossover looks on the cards again.
    Would you like to predict by when?
    I presume you think crossover will not happen?
  • Options
    smithersjones2013smithersjones2013 Posts: 740
    edited March 2014

    @smithersjones2013

    Sleazy and bullying councillors isn't news.

    Though, if I had found this story, I would have included it in nighthawks.

    Conservative Councillor Chris Joannides Booted Out Of Party, After Comparing Burkas To Bin Bags

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/04/burka-bin-bag_n_4895968.html

    I'll leave people to make what they like of that comment.
    I nearly incited a riot on another forum when I suggested it should be mandatory for some women to wear the Burqa.
    That was not the comment I was referring to. The fact that greater importance is put on the misguided thoughts of individuals than is put on the criminal and anti-social behaviour of others speaks volumes to how perverse the establishment view of politics and society has become.

    It makes you wonder whether '1984' was Science Fiction or prophecy?
    You're reading far too much into my comments and choices.
    Am I? Well if I am then I'll be sure to apologise. Time will tell.

  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876

    TGOHF said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 6s
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead now three points: CON 34%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%

    Smallest gap since......?
    Is it the curse of Smithson? As soon as Mike started majoring in the 'voteless recovery' the legendary crossover looks on the cards again.
    Would you like to predict by when?
    Cameron will have delivered a game changer, as is his knack, and Miliband will have blundered with one irresponsible and populist gimmick too far.
    Or vice versa......

  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Danny565 said:

    As a Labour supporter, I'm actually glad McCluskey is finally getting tough with the Labour leadership over funding. If making Labour haggle for money drags them away from this nonsense of unnecessarily trying to create a surplus by making poor people poorer and making public services worse, just for the sake of pacifying "the markets", then it's all to the good as far as I'm concerned.

    Danny

    You want to live in a country which spends more in servicing debt than it does on health?

  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    TGOHF said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 6s
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead now three points: CON 34%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%

    Smallest gap since......?
    Is it the curse of Smithson? As soon as Mike started majoring in the 'voteless recovery' the legendary crossover looks on the cards again.
    Would you like to predict by when?
    Yes. At the end of the conference season. Cameron will have delivered a game changer, as is his knack, and Miliband will have blundered with one irresponsible and populist gimmick too far.
    Far more likely that miliband will have screwed it up than Dave offer up a game changer. Ed is living off anti Govt feeling.. I don't believe a word about a "voteless recovery".

    15 months to go or thereabouts, I understand how long 15 months is, its pretty much the time since my wife died. I have experienced every minute of it and its a helluva long time.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,130
    edited March 2014

    TGOHF said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 6s
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead now three points: CON 34%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%

    Smallest gap since......?
    Is it the curse of Smithson? As soon as Mike started majoring in the 'voteless recovery' the legendary crossover looks on the cards again.
    Would you like to predict by when?
    Yes. At the end of the conference season. Cameron will have delivered a game changer, as is his knack, and Miliband will have blundered with one irresponsible and populist gimmick too far.
    Cameron has his moments, and I for one have been quite forgiving of him, but if he has a knack for game changers, why is he so far behind in the game? He's almost counted out at this point. A split party he cannot control, opposition in cruise control, he's flailing for a way out.

    And relying on the cautious Miliband to made a self destructive blunder seems hopeful more than anything else. He has made a very few populist moves among carefully constructed inoffensive blandness. I cannot see him destroying himself if he hasn't by now.
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    @smithersjones2013

    Sleazy and bullying councillors isn't news.

    Though, if I had found this story, I would have included it in nighthawks.

    Conservative Councillor Chris Joannides Booted Out Of Party, After Comparing Burkas To Bin Bags

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/04/burka-bin-bag_n_4895968.html

    I'll leave people to make what they like of that comment.
    I nearly incited a riot on another forum when I suggested it should be mandatory for some women to wear the Burqa.
    That was not the comment I was referring to. The fact that greater importance is put on the misguided thoughts of individuals than is put on the criminal and anti-social behaviour of others speaks volumes to how perverse the establishment view of politics and society has become.

    It makes you wonder whether '1984' was Science Fiction or prophecy?
    You're reading far too much into my comments and choices.
    Am I? Well if I am then I'll be sure to apologise. Time will tell.

    I assume I am the only one who is baffled by this conversation?
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 6s
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead now three points: CON 34%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%

    Smallest gap since......?
    Is it the curse of Smithson? As soon as Mike started majoring in the 'voteless recovery' the legendary crossover looks on the cards again.
    Would you like to predict by when?
    Yes. At the end of the conference season. Cameron will have delivered a game changer, as is his knack, and Miliband will have blundered with one irresponsible and populist gimmick too far.
    Cameron has his moments, and I for one have been quite forgiving of him, but if he has a knack for game changers, why is he so far behind in the game? He's almost counted out at this point. A split party he cannot control, opposition in cruise control, he's flailing for a way out.

    And relying on the cautious Miliband to made a self destructive blunder seems hopeful more than anything else. He has made a very few populist moves among carefully constructed inoffensive blandness. I cannot see him destroying himself if he hasn't by now.
    He will lose because he is Milibland. Would you trust Miliband to be PM. Only as fool would.

  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Ukraine

    Few developments:

    1. Some stories that the Russian troops besieging Ukrainian military facilities in Crimea are being moved out and replaced by locally raised units. Awaiting confirmation but as I mentioned the other day the Russians will likely want to get their people out of the way quickly but be sitting there like the 400lb gorilla. At the very least they'll want to get them more out of camera shot.

    2. US sending additional fighter aircraft units to member countries

    Putin's claim about the troops currently wandering Crimea not being Russian military is of course balls but not all those guys are Russian military. The first groups who started to turn up and occupy some buildings before the official assault were hired from a Russian PMC on contract. The other guys in uniforms who turned up in the opening few days were from two units that make up a rapid reaction force within the Russian army supported by Russian Marine Infantry.
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    TGOHF said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 6s
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead now three points: CON 34%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%

    Smallest gap since......?
    Is it the curse of Smithson? As soon as Mike started majoring in the 'voteless recovery' the legendary crossover looks on the cards again.
    Would you like to predict by when?
    Yes. At the end of the conference season. Cameron will have delivered a game changer, as is his knack, and Miliband will have blundered with one irresponsible and populist gimmick too far.
    You are right that there is still much to play for, but Cameron has not been great at conference in recent years. That is not to say he won't be again.
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014

    AveryLP said:

    Video: RT Anchor Quits On Air

    An American anchor working for state-owned television station Russia Today quit on air on Wednesday. Liz Wahl, in the network's D.C. bureau, said she could no longer be "part of a network that whitewashes the actions of Putin." Wahl said she is the grandchild of Hungarian refugees who fled Soviet oppression



    http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/03/05/rt-anchor-quits-on-air.html

    Will Liz Wahl now be joining Fox News?

    More on Russian tv and free speech ?

    Russian TV anchor is sent to Crimea by her bosses after she says the country's behaviour in Ukraine is 'wrong' during live broadcast

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2573136/Russian-TV-anchor-says-countrys-behaviour-Ukraine-wrong-live-broadcast-sent-Crimea-bosses.html

    A much better story, Tyke and Ms. Martin gives a sound reason for her statement:

    the coverage I've seen of Ukraine has been truly disappointing from all sides of the media spectrum, and ripe with disinformation.

    And full marks to RT too for allowing the two presenters to make their statements on air. Their response of sending Abby Martin to Crimea is also commendable.

    But I doubt she will "acquire a deep understanding" during her trip. She may get a week's worth of winter sunshine though.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,130

    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 6s
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead now three points: CON 34%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%

    Smallest gap since......?
    Is it the curse of Smithson? As soon as Mike started majoring in the 'voteless recovery' the legendary crossover looks on the cards again.
    Would you like to predict by when?
    Yes. At the end of the conference season. Cameron will have delivered a game changer, as is his knack, and Miliband will have blundered with one irresponsible and populist gimmick too far.
    Cameron has his moments, and I for one have been quite forgiving of him, but if he has a knack for game changers, why is he so far behind in the game? He's almost counted out at this point. A split party he cannot control, opposition in cruise control, he's flailing for a way out.

    And relying on the cautious Miliband to made a self destructive blunder seems hopeful more than anything else. He has made a very few populist moves among carefully constructed inoffensive blandness. I cannot see him destroying himself if he hasn't by now.
    He will lose because he is Milibland. Would you trust Miliband to be PM. Only as fool would.

    I think most people do not have such a fear of Ed M as you do. Under severe financial constraints, will he really do all that much harm? He might well turn out to be bad, but will he be so bad in opposition that it will be impossible for people not to see that and react appropriately? I doubt it. He comes across as a typical bland, well polished party machine cliche spouting political animal, but not a dangerous idiot. WIth Cameron hamstrung by UKIP and a base that is indifferent to him even with the threat of a Labour win, Ed M will walk this. I wish it would not be so easy for him, but it looks that way I think.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,278
    Mark Senior Thanks for that, Quebec seems to mirror the national Canadian picture where Harper's Tories are losing votes to Trudeau's Liberals
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,556

    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 6s
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead now three points: CON 34%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%

    Smallest gap since......?
    Is it the curse of Smithson? As soon as Mike started majoring in the 'voteless recovery' the legendary crossover looks on the cards again.
    Would you like to predict by when?
    Yes. At the end of the conference season. Cameron will have delivered a game changer, as is his knack, and Miliband will have blundered with one irresponsible and populist gimmick too far.
    Cameron has his moments, and I for one have been quite forgiving of him, but if he has a knack for game changers, why is he so far behind in the game? He's almost counted out at this point. A split party he cannot control, opposition in cruise control, he's flailing for a way out.

    And relying on the cautious Miliband to made a self destructive blunder seems hopeful more than anything else. He has made a very few populist moves among carefully constructed inoffensive blandness. I cannot see him destroying himself if he hasn't by now.
    He will lose because he is Milibland. Would you trust Miliband to be PM. Only as fool would.


    I wouldn't trust Miliband to look after a goldfish.
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    Y0kel said:

    Ukraine

    Few developments:

    1. Some stories that the Russian troops besieging Ukrainian military facilities in Crimea are being moved out and replaced by locally raised units. Awaiting confirmation but as I mentioned the other day the Russians will likely want to get their people out of the way quickly but be sitting there like the 400lb gorilla. At the very least they'll want to get them more out of camera shot.

    2. US sending additional fighter aircraft units to member countries

    Putin's claim about the troops currently wandering Crimea not being Russian military is of course balls but not all those guys are Russian military. The first groups who started to turn up and occupy some buildings before the official assault were hired from a Russian PMC on contract. The other guys in uniforms who turned up in the opening few days were from two units that make up a rapid reaction force within the Russian army supported by Russian Marine Infantry.

    Морской спецназовец, I suspect Y0kel.

    The officer filmed on Sky TV handling the Ukrainian forces wanting readmission to their barracks was a classic example of a commander well trained in controlling civil disturbance.

    The problem with allowing local militia to take up the slack is that the potential for mistakes is increased as we saw today with the UN Envoy incident.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,278
    SeanT I believe Miliband will take the Labour vote up to about 36% (which would still be the second biggest increase in the Labour vote after 1979), but in the end Cameron will stay on as PM at the head of a second Tory-LD Coalition with the Tories taking about 39% as UKIP peaks too soon
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    AveryLP said:

    Danny565 said:

    As a Labour supporter, I'm actually glad McCluskey is finally getting tough with the Labour leadership over funding. If making Labour haggle for money drags them away from this nonsense of unnecessarily trying to create a surplus by making poor people poorer and making public services worse, just for the sake of pacifying "the markets", then it's all to the good as far as I'm concerned.

    Danny

    You want to live in a country which spends more in servicing debt than it does on health?

    I don't want to live in a country which slashes health (and other areas) simply so that anonymous people on a trading floor in Shanghai are happy.

    And I also don't think the public will be at all accepting of any suggestion that there should be even more cuts from any of the parties at the next election. I honestly think most people at this point don't think there is any need for more austerity. If the parties ramble on about how large a % of GDP the debt is, the average person I think will just shrug their shoulders and say "so?" Unless there's graphic examples of disastrous consequences of not making cuts at that very time (e.g. riots on the streets of Athens, which is probably the main reason people here accepted the cuts in the first place) then people won't be convinced, numbers on a spreadsheet won't mean anything. It's a crying shame that the Labour leadership, stuck in their warped Westminster bubble, can't see this.
  • Options
    compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited March 2014

    TGOHF said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 6s
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead now three points: CON 34%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%

    Smallest gap since......?
    Is it the curse of Smithson? As soon as Mike started majoring in the 'voteless recovery' the legendary crossover looks on the cards again.
    Would you like to predict by when?
    Yes. At the end of the conference season. Cameron will have delivered a game changer, as is his knack, and Miliband will have blundered with one irresponsible and populist gimmick too far.
    So we have Rod at 1st May, Fitalass in the next two months and Stark with the end of the conference season.....and Avery hiding his behind a yellow box.

    @Nigel - I do not think there will be a cross over across the polls before the election, as I have stated on many many occasions.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited March 2014
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 6s
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead now three points: CON 34%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%

    Smallest gap since......?
    Is it the curse of Smithson? As soon as Mike started majoring in the 'voteless recovery' the legendary crossover looks on the cards again.
    Would you like to predict by when?
    Yes. At the end of the conference season. Cameron will have delivered a game changer, as is his knack, and Miliband will have blundered with one irresponsible and populist gimmick too far.
    Cameron has his moments, and I for one have been quite forgiving of him, but if he has a knack for game changers, why is he so far behind in the game? He's almost counted out at this point. A split party he cannot control, opposition in cruise control, he's flailing for a way out.

    And relying on the cautious Miliband to made a self destructive blunder seems hopeful more than anything else. He has made a very few populist moves among carefully constructed inoffensive blandness. I cannot see him destroying himself if he hasn't by now.
    He will lose because he is Milibland. Would you trust Miliband to be PM. Only as fool would.

    I think most people do not have such a fear of Ed M as you do. Under severe financial constraints, will he really do all that much harm? He might well turn out to be bad, but will he be so bad in opposition that it will be impossible for people not to see that and react appropriately? I doubt it. He comes across as a typical bland, well polished party machine cliche spouting political animal, but not a dangerous idiot. WIth Cameron hamstrung by UKIP and a base that is indifferent to him even with the threat of a Labour win, Ed M will walk this. I wish it would not be so easy for him, but it looks that way I think.
    You appear to be deluded. they said all that "harmless" crap about Brown. The worst Prime Minister this Country has ever had the misfortune to have to suffer. The idea of another fool in his mould does not bear contemplating.
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    AveryLP said:

    Y0kel said:

    Ukraine

    Few developments:

    1. Some stories that the Russian troops besieging Ukrainian military facilities in Crimea are being moved out and replaced by locally raised units. Awaiting confirmation but as I mentioned the other day the Russians will likely want to get their people out of the way quickly but be sitting there like the 400lb gorilla. At the very least they'll want to get them more out of camera shot.

    2. US sending additional fighter aircraft units to member countries

    Putin's claim about the troops currently wandering Crimea not being Russian military is of course balls but not all those guys are Russian military. The first groups who started to turn up and occupy some buildings before the official assault were hired from a Russian PMC on contract. The other guys in uniforms who turned up in the opening few days were from two units that make up a rapid reaction force within the Russian army supported by Russian Marine Infantry.

    Морской спецназовец, I suspect Y0kel.

    The officer filmed on Sky TV handling the Ukrainian forces wanting readmission to their barracks was a classic example of a commander well trained in controlling civil disturbance.

    The problem with allowing local militia to take up the slack is that the potential for mistakes is increased as we saw today with the UN Envoy incident.
    Nowhere near enough Naval spec Ops to account for the numbers. The bulk came from army Spec Ops and Airmobile units.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2014


    So we have Rod at 1st May...

    I said "by May."

    Never cast a clout, etc...
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,130
    edited March 2014
    You appear to be deluded. they said all that "harmless" crap about Brown. The worst Prime Minister this country has ever had the misfortune to have to suffer. THe idea of another fool in his mould does not bear contemplating.

    I didn't say he would be harmless, I acknowledged he may well end up being a bad PM, though I doubt he would be as destructive as you fear. I am certain that unless he does something wildly out of character and self destructs, the vast majoriity of people will not fear that he will be a disaster prior to him becoming PM.

    That you think he would be a disastrous fool does not factor in to whether Ed M will likely become PM unless that view takes hold among the public. It clearly already hasn't given Labour are still in the lead - it fluctuates, but has been pretty stable in the long term for awhile - and if the things about him which make you feel he is a disastrous fool have not already convinced the wider public of the same, what chance he will slip up so catastrophically in less than 18 months?

    I also fail to see how to think that Ed M will become PM equals delusion. It only needs Labour to poll in the mid to high 30s , which requires only a modest increase from the low point of 2010 bolstered by former LDs and the Tories being undercut by UKIP, for that to happen, and Ed M's personal impact negative or positive seems unlikely to swing it given he is such a bland and careful figure.

    You may well be proven right that an Ed M premiership would be a disaster, but I would tend to think that the predictions of how great or awful he will prove to be will not be the critical factor when people vote come 2015. Tribal loyalty and the economic situation will be more crucial than that I suspect. I find it a little absurd that my not agreeing that Ed M would be a disaster means I am deluded. I'm saying whether or not that is the case, I don't think the wider public will take a view on that strong enough to make a significant difference to the outcome.

    In essence, I'm not even saying you are incorrect in your assessment of him, so calm the heck down, I'm merely reserving judgement and giving greater weight to other factors regarding who will emerge victorious in 2015. I may be proven wrong to weight my considerations as I have, but time will tell, so can it with the insults.

    Night all.
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    @Danny565

    I don't want to live in a country which slashes health (and other areas) simply so that anonymous people on a trading floor in Shanghai are happy.

    ...


    Danny

    The cost of borrowing is not entirely within the control of any government. It is determined by the international markets.

    Certain countries have trade surpluses and large stocks of foreign currency holdings. They need to earn a return on the foreign currencies and will seek safe investments.

    Simply put, why should China buy UK Gilts and thereby finance UK government borrowing if the risks outweigh the returns? They won't do it or will only do it a a price premium which reflects the risks.

    Brown was borrowing one in every four pounds he spent. This has now come down to £1 in every £6.50 but the borrowing costs (debt interest) have grown to around £45 billion per year this year (which is half the amount spent on education) and will grow to £75 billion per year (70% of the health budget) by 2017 on current government spending plans.

    Any change in policy to increase borrowing over current plans (whatever the colour of government) will be treated as an increase in default risk by international investors who will demand a higher rate of interest to be paid if they are to continue financing UK government spending.

    Now the electorate can chose to ignore this reality and vote a party into government which promises to increase borrowing but as sure as night following day the voters will start feeling the consequences in no time at all.

    There simply is no other option but to reduce spending, to control borrowing, and, to keep debt to safe limits. That is why even Labour will refuse to go into an election on the back of a major change in government borrowing plans.

    As for "slashing health (and other areas) simply so that anonymous people on a trading floor in Shanghai are happy", you should note that this Coalition Government has not done that in spite of the fact that the Health budget accounts for a seventh of all managed spending, Both health and education spending has grown in real terms as well as in proportion to GDP across this term.

    You should be thankful that the public finances have been so well managed that the protection of health and education has been possible. The alternative to consider would be the NHS in Wales or the whole economy in France.

    Is that really what you want?
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    What is Putin's view on the Scottish independence debate?
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    TGOHF said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 6s
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead now three points: CON 34%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%

    Smallest gap since......?
    Is it the curse of Smithson? As soon as Mike started majoring in the 'voteless recovery' the legendary crossover looks on the cards again.
    Would you like to predict by when?
    Yes. At the end of the conference season. Cameron will have delivered a game changer, as is his knack, and Miliband will have blundered with one irresponsible and populist gimmick too far.
    So we have Rod at 1st May, Fitalass in the next two months and Stark with the end of the conference season.....and Avery hiding his behind a yellow box.

    @Nigel - I do not think there will be a cross over across the polls before the election, as I have stated on many many occasions.
    Fitalass is being too optimistic.
    It'll be July; the week of the Lord's Test Match.

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    AndyJS said:

    What is Putin's view on the Scottish independence debate?

    He is holding one himself in the Crimea on 30th March.

    The only difference between Volodya and Eck is that the former will win his vote.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2014
    Fascinating split of votes for the Bristol council area in the 2009 Euro election:

    Con: 19.5%
    LD: 18.7%
    Lab: 16.3%
    Green: 15.8%
    UKIP: 13.8%
    BNP: 5.8%
    Oth: 10.2%

    Labour ought to top the poll there this time without too much difficulty.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Small correction to my post to Danny on government borrowing.

    The current annual amount of debt interest paid is 50% of what the government pays in pensions and work benefits. The Education budget is much smaller though ring fenced.
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    compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    GeoffM said:


    TGOHF said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 6s
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead now three points: CON 34%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 11%

    Smallest gap since......?
    Is it the curse of Smithson? As soon as Mike started majoring in the 'voteless recovery' the legendary crossover looks on the cards again.
    Would you like to predict by when?
    Yes. At the end of the conference season. Cameron will have delivered a game changer, as is his knack, and Miliband will have blundered with one irresponsible and populist gimmick too far.
    So we have Rod at 1st May, Fitalass in the next two months and Stark with the end of the conference season.....and Avery hiding his behind a yellow box.

    @Nigel - I do not think there will be a cross over across the polls before the election, as I have stated on many many occasions.
    Fitalass is being too optimistic.
    It'll be July; the week of the Lord's Test Match.

    Oh, I do like it when the Hodges get bullish. So by July we could have all the predictions in tatters.
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    compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    RodCrosby said:


    So we have Rod at 1st May...

    I said "by May."

    Never cast a clout, etc...
    No problems, duly noted.
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    compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    All we need now is the crossover prediction failure extrordinaire to take his prediction from behind his yellow box and we have a full house.

    Mind the gap:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    The amount of debt interest that we are paying is truly scary. Each year we have to pay an increase in the interest equivalent to the amount brought in by Tuition fees.

    So when Balls takes over it gets really scary. It will be coyote over a canyon time, for a while it is possible to run in mid air, then the sickening plunge.
    AveryLP said:

    Small correction to my post to Danny on government borrowing.

    The current annual amount of debt interest paid is 50% of what the government pays in pensions and work benefits. The Education budget is much smaller though ring fenced.

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014

    All we need now is the crossover prediction failure extrordinaire to take his prediction from behind his yellow box and we have a full house.

    Mind the gap:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png

    I would like to say tomorrow compouter but poll respondents have little sympathy with beasts of burden.

    The thought of keeping you circling the touchline with goalposts breaking your back is so attractive that even sane people are lying to the pollsters about their voting intention.

    At least Len and UNITE have realised the game is up.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    PaddyPower in trouble after Pistorius ad became most complained about in UK history:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26457881
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    Absolutely, Dr. Sox

    There will be plenty of small decisions made during the next parliament which will require resolve, belief in thrift and your understanding that "postponenent of instant gratification" is the route to success.

    With debt levels as they stand and the budget not yet balanced let alone generating a surplus, it is too early to give the credit card to a son of Brown, whatever promises Labour make in the run up to an election.

    We need a government which will veer 8 times out of 10 on the side of caution and believe afterwards that they have made the right decision.

    The amount of debt interest that we are paying is truly scary. Each year we have to pay an increase in the interest equivalent to the amount brought in by Tuition fees.

    So when Balls takes over it gets really scary. It will be coyote over a canyon time, for a while it is possible to run in mid air, then the sickening plunge.

    AveryLP said:

    Small correction to my post to Danny on government borrowing.

    The current annual amount of debt interest paid is 50% of what the government pays in pensions and work benefits. The Education budget is much smaller though ring fenced.

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    compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    AveryLP said:

    All we need now is the crossover prediction failure extrordinaire to take his prediction from behind his yellow box and we have a full house.

    Mind the gap:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png

    I would like to say tomorrow compouter but poll respondents have little sympathy with beasts of burden.

    The thought of keeping you circling the touchline with goalposts breaking your back is so attractive that even sane people are lying to the pollsters about their voting intention.

    At least Len and UNITE have realised the game is up.
    I will take that as even you realise that a polling crossover is not likely. It might be the only polling crossover prediction you have ever got right.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov celebrates ten years in the job on 9th March:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Lavrov
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Professor Ailsa McKay has sadly died.
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    surely "all around the world" is by Lisa stansfield.....?


    25. dear oh dear. a study with 9 subjects. I don't think it will have much statistical power..
This discussion has been closed.