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Who shall win the first debate? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @LOS_Fisher

    Speculation continues to ramp up in Westminster that Rishi Sunak could choose to cut & run today for a summer snap election…

    We revealed in @FT last Sat that Tory bosses were exploring funding for a pre-recess poll…

    Usual caveats apply, of course - we’ve all been here before!

    How snappy can a snap election be? Just remembered I've got a speculative tenner at quite long odds on a June election. Any chance?
    I think not
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385

    Taz said:

    Sunak knows the euro footy is on this summer doesn't he?

    Surely?

    He does.

    Last time a government with a working majority was replaced by another party with a working majority was 1970 which took place during an international tournament in which England were the tournament favourites.
    England cannot be favourites for the Euros, surely. If so that is a lay
    We're favourites on Betfair.

    I lay England at every tournament, I am not changing my strategy.

    The curse of Harry Kane/Spurs is real.
    No one would lose money with that strategy.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @LOS_Fisher

    Speculation continues to ramp up in Westminster that Rishi Sunak could choose to cut & run today for a summer snap election…

    We revealed in @FT last Sat that Tory bosses were exploring funding for a pre-recess poll…

    Usual caveats apply, of course - we’ve all been here before!

    How snappy can a snap election be? Just remembered I've got a speculative tenner at quite long odds on a June election. Any chance?
    Parliament would have to be dissolved *today*, with no washup, for a June election on a Thursday.

    See
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9921/
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @LOS_Fisher

    Speculation continues to ramp up in Westminster that Rishi Sunak could choose to cut & run today for a summer snap election…

    We revealed in @FT last Sat that Tory bosses were exploring funding for a pre-recess poll…

    Usual caveats apply, of course - we’ve all been here before!

    How snappy can a snap election be? Just remembered I've got a speculative tenner at quite long odds on a June election. Any chance?
    Last day for it to be called for 27 June!!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    Here come the waterworks again.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    11th - in the hope of a patriotic vote surge following a semi final win the night before or 18th as we vote Tory to celebrate Euro glory
    Flights of fancy
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,633
    megasaur said:

    July is a screaming lay. What would be the reason for it? The only one I can see is that it is a response by Sunak personally to an attempted putsch, following his sub Truss ratings.

    This post may not age well.

    The timing might be good if he's thinking of heading off Reform.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220
    Scott_xP said:

    @ShippersUnbound

    Two thoughts:
    1) if the election is not on, this is Gordon Brown levels of in competence at not killing the rumours
    2) judging by the levels of angst in my whatsapps from ministers and MPs, a cabinet and/or 1922 committee revolt is not out of the question

    We know that Sunak is utterly terrible at politics like rumour-killing. See the way that the "ban all foreign students" thing got out of hand, and now seems to be being rowed back on.

    Maybe that's what the announcement is going to be.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,633

    Here come the waterworks again.

    Is she angling for the Severn Trent job?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Taz said:

    Sunak knows the euro footy is on this summer doesn't he?

    Surely?

    He does.

    Last time a government with a working majority was replaced by another party with a working majority was 1970 which took place during an international tournament in which England were the tournament favourites.
    England cannot be favourites for the Euros, surely. If so that is a lay
    We're favourites on Betfair.

    I lay England at every tournament, I am not changing my strategy.

    The curse of Harry Kane/Spurs is real.
    Absolutely. QF likely, but after that...
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Here come the waterworks again.

    Is she angling for the Severn Trent job?
    Or the Bishop of Bath and Wells.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    Here come the waterworks again.

    Is she angling for the Severn Trent job?
    Thames Water, because she's full of shit?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    Taz said:



    Taz said:

    Sunak knows the euro footy is on this summer doesn't he?

    Surely?

    He does.

    Last time a government with a working majority was replaced by another party with a working majority was 1970 which took place during an international tournament in which England were the tournament favourites.
    England cannot be favourites for the Euros, surely. If so that is a lay
    We're favourites on Betfair.

    I lay England at every tournament, I am not changing my strategy.

    The curse of Harry Kane/Spurs is real.
    No one would lose money with that strategy.
    Doesn't that depend on the result.....
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    I'm not sure Sunak is the right chap to benefit from a good England performance at the Euros - too much of a nerd for his euphoria to be credible.
    Starmer, on the other hand, could capitalise on winning performances from Rice and Saka.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Here come the waterworks again.

    Wow. With other witnesses eg Emma Price asked "would you like a break".

    Here = complete silence from the J-Dog and then, after a pause, "try to compose yourself and continue".

    Awesome.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    I'm not sure Sunak is the right chap to benefit from a good England performance at the Euros - too much of a nerd for his euphoria to be credible.
    Starmer, on the other hand, could capitalise on winning performances from Rice and Saka.

    The Tories will be at war with the England team over something or other that is perceived as woke.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited May 22
    boulay said:

    Here come the waterworks again.

    Is she angling for the Severn Trent job?
    Or the Bishop of Bath and Wells.
    The best Bishopric after Canterbury and York as you also get to live in a Palace

    https://bishopspalace.org.uk/attractions/palace/#:~:text=The Bishop's Palace and Gardens,open for all to enjoy.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377

    I'm not sure Sunak is the right chap to benefit from a good England performance at the Euros - too much of a nerd for his euphoria to be credible.
    Starmer, on the other hand, could capitalise on winning performances from Rice and Saka.

    The Tories will be at war with the England team over something or other that is perceived as woke.
    Rainbow laces?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,798
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Sunak knows the euro footy is on this summer doesn't he?

    Surely?

    He does.

    Last time a government with a working majority was replaced by another party with a working majority was 1970 which took place during an international tournament in which England were the tournament favourites.
    England cannot be favourites for the Euros, surely. If so that is a lay
    We're favourites on Betfair.

    I lay England at every tournament, I am not changing my strategy.

    The curse of Harry Kane/Spurs is real.
    Absolutely. QF likely, but after that...
    After that, England matches are being televised on ITV. And the curse of ITV is real.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    On the three days of food etc thing......
    1) who doesn't have three days of food in?
    2) 3 weeks is the minimum for disaster prep, as if this useless govt can organise a response in 3 days
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,798

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @LOS_Fisher

    Speculation continues to ramp up in Westminster that Rishi Sunak could choose to cut & run today for a summer snap election…

    We revealed in @FT last Sat that Tory bosses were exploring funding for a pre-recess poll…

    Usual caveats apply, of course - we’ve all been here before!

    How snappy can a snap election be? Just remembered I've got a speculative tenner at quite long odds on a June election. Any chance?
    Parliament would have to be dissolved *today*, with no washup, for a June election on a Thursday.

    See
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9921/
    Thanks!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    Here come the waterworks again.

    I assume we won't be seeing any waterworks from your hero Lord Clarke after the Infected Blood Report?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Nigelb said:

    .

    "That there is an issue of unknown unknowns. If you don’t know something exists, it’s difficult to ask questions about it."

    I am starting to get seriously :angry: now

    Rumsfeld was actually articulating the point that you need to go out and look for trouble in your organisation. Because trouble is there, and it will find you.
    Why did he go looking for trouble in Iraq, then ?
    One danger of addressing known unknowns is that it reveals unknown unknowns. But that's not necessarily a reason for not dealing with the known unknowns.

    (FWIW, in this case - Iraq - it *was* a reason for not doing it, or certainly for not planning properly for the aftermath; but a specific instance is a poor platform on which to base a general case)
    I have always considered that statement by Rumsfeld to be one of the most important made by a politician in modern times and something that should be taught in schools. The 'certainty' with which most people seem to view life and events and the inability to comprehend just how much we don't know is one of our great failings both as individuals and as society.
    He also provided an object lesson in the consequences of ignoring such advice.

    This entire section suggests a man viewing events with his own particular version of certainty.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfeld#Military_decisions_in_the_wake_of_9/11
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    On the three days of food etc thing......
    1) who doesn't have three days of food in?
    2) 3 weeks is the minimum for disaster prep, as if this useless govt can organise a response in 3 days

    Announcing it the same day as calling a GE is GENIUS !!!
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,324
    HYUFD said:

    Here come the waterworks again.

    I assume we won't be seeing any waterworks from your hero Lord Clarke after the Infected Blood Report?
    That's a hero of mine seriously tarnished, Huyfd.

    I'm sad.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited May 22

    Nigelb said:

    .

    "That there is an issue of unknown unknowns. If you don’t know something exists, it’s difficult to ask questions about it."

    I am starting to get seriously :angry: now

    Rumsfeld was actually articulating the point that you need to go out and look for trouble in your organisation. Because trouble is there, and it will find you.
    Why did he go looking for trouble in Iraq, then ?
    One danger of addressing known unknowns is that it reveals unknown unknowns. But that's not necessarily a reason for not dealing with the known unknowns.

    (FWIW, in this case - Iraq - it *was* a reason for not doing it, or certainly for not planning properly for the aftermath; but a specific instance is a poor platform on which to base a general case)
    I have always considered that statement by Rumsfeld to be one of the most important made by a politician in modern times and something that should be taught in schools. The 'certainty' with which most people seem to view life and events and the inability to comprehend just how much we don't know is one of our great failings both as individuals and as society.
    Couldn't agree more. And IIRC it was met by sustained mockery and derision at the time.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    The destruction of Paula Vennells is so awesomely brutal that it could destroy her. We've just watched some of it, and my better half stated that if she were Vennells she'd take drastic steps to not have to return tomorrow.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    I'm not sure Sunak is the right chap to benefit from a good England performance at the Euros - too much of a nerd for his euphoria to be credible.
    Starmer, on the other hand, could capitalise on winning performances from Rice and Saka.

    If it's 11 July it will be just after a possible SF loss and everyone will blame Rishi! Just like 1970!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Nigelb said:

    Another really poor interview by Emma Barnett on Today this morning, this time with the Chancellor. She really does like her own voice far too much.

    I'm definitely not a fan of the "Macro policies are all very well but Mrs Trellis from North Wales has emailed to say' thing. How do we know that Mrs Trellis isn't just the shadow Chancellor making things up? Or the producer?

    Keep that nonsense on Radio 5 please.

    She was using a particular example to make a general point which the Chancellor didn't really answer.

    You might not like the way she framed the question, but the twin issues of housing costs, and actual changes in standard of living for large sectors of the workforce are perfectly valid ones to raise.

    I note you ignored the point about rental costs rising 9% in the last year. Which is somewhat at odds with 2.3% inflation.

    That's why individuals' experiences matter.
    This is true but the way in which she did it - a long speech in place of a short incisive question - never ever works in eliciting either truth or development of an argument. The BBC seems to major on two sorts of discussions: luvvie ones (Woman's Hour) in which the interviewee can do nothing wrong, and Today style ones in which they can do nothing right. all the interesting stuff is in the grey area in the middle, which requires being properly briefed and researched and using questions and the answers to develop the journey towards some degree of enlightenment.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744
    Scott_xP said:

    @LOS_Fisher

    Speculation continues to ramp up in Westminster that Rishi Sunak could choose to cut & run today for a summer snap election…

    We revealed in @FT last Sat that Tory bosses were exploring funding for a pre-recess poll…

    Usual caveats apply, of course - we’ve all been here before!

    Really don't see it. The Tories are still about 20 points behind in the polls and CCHQ / No 10 can point a credible path to some form of recovery over the summer, as inflation and interest rates ease a bit. You do not call an election you'll get hammered in if things might get better by waiting.

    (That last point changes in the autumn / winter, as the potential for waiting shortens from quarters to months to weeks, and the downside of waiting - disruption over Xmas, being accused of squatting in No 10, taking repeated hits in the Commons with nothing to do - increase)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632

    NEW THREAD

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    On a lighter note, I've been struggling to work out what was behind the strong conviction that Jason Beer reminds me of someone.

    Just realised it's the iguanodon, in this book from my childhood.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaurs_Don't_Die
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161

    How did I miss this?

    Paula Vennells: Ex-Post Office boss was shortlisted to be Bishop of London

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67923190.amp

    You don't read the comments at PB?

    We've mentioned it several times.

    She wasn't in with much of a chance - most complex Bishopric in England, no Episcopal experience, and up against a former Chief Nursing Officer of England.
  • CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 480

    Scott_xP said:

    @LOS_Fisher

    Speculation continues to ramp up in Westminster that Rishi Sunak could choose to cut & run today for a summer snap election…

    We revealed in @FT last Sat that Tory bosses were exploring funding for a pre-recess poll…

    Usual caveats apply, of course - we’ve all been here before!

    Really don't see it. The Tories are still about 20 points behind in the polls and CCHQ / No 10 can point a credible path to some form of recovery over the summer, as inflation and interest rates ease a bit. You do not call an election you'll get hammered in if things might get better by waiting.

    (That last point changes in the autumn / winter, as the potential for waiting shortens from quarters to months to weeks, and the downside of waiting - disruption over Xmas, being accused of squatting in No 10, taking repeated hits in the Commons with nothing to do - increase)
    Yeah they are behind but the numbers are inexorably widening. Both cons and ref are indecline now... it could become cataclysmic
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    Nigelb said:

    .

    "That there is an issue of unknown unknowns. If you don’t know something exists, it’s difficult to ask questions about it."

    I am starting to get seriously :angry: now

    Rumsfeld was actually articulating the point that you need to go out and look for trouble in your organisation. Because trouble is there, and it will find you.
    Why did he go looking for trouble in Iraq, then ?
    One danger of addressing known unknowns is that it reveals unknown unknowns. But that's not necessarily a reason for not dealing with the known unknowns.

    (FWIW, in this case - Iraq - it *was* a reason for not doing it, or certainly for not planning properly for the aftermath; but a specific instance is a poor platform on which to base a general case)
    I have always considered that statement by Rumsfeld to be one of the most important made by a politician in modern times and something that should be taught in schools. The 'certainty' with which most people seem to view life and events and the inability to comprehend just how much we don't know is one of our great failings both as individuals and as society.
    I agree, but wanted to say so rather than just liking because the thing that got me at the time was he was ridiculed for what he said, yet it was a very clear logical statement that most people should be able to grasp.

    I agree it should be taught in school together with other basic logic. Things may have changed since I was in school over 50 years ago, so apologies if it is taught, but in my day there was no logic taught. I did not do any logic at O level or A level Maths and only did it in my 2nd and 3rd year Maths degree as a selected subject.

    Basic logic is probably more useful than basic calculus at GCSE level. Again apologies if I am out of touch with the current curriculum.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,324

    The destruction of Paula Vennells is so awesomely brutal that it could destroy her. We've just watched some of it, and my better half stated that if she were Vennells she'd take drastic steps to not have to return tomorrow.

    She been living with this for years, Al. Personally, I couldn't cope with it, but one option I would consider is telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. She could have fully supported the Inquiry. She's had ample opportunity to assist, and consistently declined to do so.

    Sorry, but my sympathy with her is minimal.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    "You have no problem recalling things which attribute blame to others..."

    Bullseye.

    I've several times noted that this is characteristic of almost every witness regarding exculpatory versus inconvenient information.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    Scott_xP said:

    @ShippersUnbound

    Two thoughts:
    1) if the election is not on, this is Gordon Brown levels of in competence at not killing the rumours
    2) judging by the levels of angst in my whatsapps from ministers and MPs, a cabinet and/or 1922 committee revolt is not out of the question

    We know that Sunak is utterly terrible at politics like rumour-killing. See the way that the "ban all foreign students" thing got out of hand, and now seems to be being rowed back on.

    Maybe that's what the announcement is going to be.
    You could have stopped after:

    We know that Sunak is utterly terrible at politics

  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Off topic, but possibly pertinent to problems in other nations:

    "The release of the annual Social Security trustees’ report is usually the occasion for some dolorous lament that we have inched another year closer to disaster. This year, however, I have good news! The industrious actuaries at the Social Security Administration, having ground through all the data, now think our nation’s looming entitlement meltdown looks slightly less catastrophic than it did last year.

    They now forecast that the combined Social Security Trust Funds won’t be exhausted until 2035, a year later than they expected in 2023. They also see some improvement in the program’s long-term finances, primarily because of more favorable assumptions about productivity growth and disability rates — though that happy news is, they write, “partially offset by a decrease in the assumed long-term total fertility rate,” which has now gone from 2 children per woman to 1.9."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/05/14/social-security-fix-birthrates/
    source: https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/2024/

    The last time the TFR was that high? 2010:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States
    And the trend is not encouraging.
This discussion has been closed.