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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » So Farage against Clegg is going to be on TV – My predictio

SystemSystem Posts: 11,698
edited March 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » So Farage against Clegg is going to be on TV – My prediction: Both will be the winner

It’s good news for all who want a high turnout in the May Euro elections that the Farage versus Clegg national TV debate is actually on. The BBC will be staging it on BBC 2. It will last an hour.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,556
    edited March 2014
    I agree with Nick Mike.

    The really losers are Dave, and possibly Ed.

    Although Ed won't really mind an hour of TV where Farage is kicking lumps out of Dave, and Dave's not there to respond.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Not great for the Greens either but I dont think Ofcom's ruling was perverse.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610
    Dave needs to get in on the action or he will be the big loser. Facing Farage down is the only way forthe Cons to regain the iinitiative. They need to get under his skin and make him lash out.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I disagree. Without Ed Miliband or David Cameron, few voters will tune in. Those that decide to watch will largely already be deranged on the subject of the EU already.

    For everyone else it will be a freak show.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,556
    edited March 2014
    The other thing to note about this debate

    The BBC have said

    The audience will ask Clegg/Farage questions and the BBC says reputable polling firm will choose audience
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    isamisam Posts: 40,982
    Did I read earlier that Labour were yet to comment on this debate. If so, the possibility of Miliband appearing remains, leaving the Conservative party empty chaired.
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    I can't see it being to bad for Milliband. Cameron is going to be the one getting a shoe-ing. The only risk to Milliband is that Farage can paint Labour, and Milliband specifically, as being EU cheerleaders.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    FPT

    Indeed, Mr. Pioneers, but one might wish that Ed would put forward some honest, workable solutions. He ain't yet. If he ever does he will win a landslide.

    Indeed. We need a blank sheet of paper approach to the various large problems we have as a country. I start off with the things that people absolutely need and the economy needs which we apparently can't afford - housing, power, transport. What we need to do is stop waiting for the free market to provide and do it ourselves. Power and infrastructure projects pay out twice - when being built throgh wages paid to the workforce, and then through long term economic benefit. So we put these things out to tender and pay for the things we need and then reap the economic rewards from having the asset.

    Its called "investment".
    It is indeed called "investment", RP.

    But when a country is not generating surpluses on its current budget it can also be called "borrowing". And the costs involved in servicing such borrowing can be called "current expenditure".

    Existing spending and investment plans will see annual debt servicing costs rise to £75 billion per annum by 2017 just to fund our existing debt. That is around 70% of the amount the UK spends on Health per year and nearly twice what we spend on defence.

    Additional infrastructure funding over and above what is already planned will require unsustainable increases in debt which will not only increase our debt servicing costs pro rata but will also increase the amount we pay on all debt, due the markets increasing premia on interest rates in line with the increased risk posed by higher levels of borrowing.

    So until the UK starts generating surpluses on its current account, there is little option for it to radically increase infrastructure investment. This is why the current government is seeking external finance from foreign currency suplus holding countries for major projects in the UK: the deal with China on nuclear power being a key example. Even once surpluses are generated they will have to be split between debt reduction and increased investment to keep borrowing costs within manageable limits.

    Of course, none of this is understood by the children of Brown, who were brought up to believe that current spending and investment were equivalent.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2014
    If [Farage] can take part in this event it is going to be harder excluding him at the General Election.

    I think that is wrong. Under the OFCOM guidelines, in particular the rule that they will look at performance in real elections of the appropriate type over two electoral cycles, UKIP is undoubtedly a 'major party' for EU election purposes, but is undoubtedly not a 'major party' for general election purposes.

    One can quibble with whether those guidelines are set correctly, but they are what they are, and they're not going to change before 2015 (and probably not after that).
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,785
    It will be good for Farage and Clegg among their committed supporters - I doubt anyone else will tune in......

    OT - Putin has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.

    Who said satire was dead!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,976
    FPT:
    isam said:

    That's very kind of you. I've often said that I only recall two occasions in 45 years of persuasion where anyone actually said to me "I used to disagree with you but you have now persuaded me to change my mind". I shall now make that three.

    The others were a bloke in a pub who wanted to withdraw from Europe and a constituent who wanted to expel all immigrants ("what, even NHS staff?" worked for him).

    Well done, you.

    I have myself changed several people's view on foreign aid. Most people who object to it imagine that it's disbursed in the form of largesse handed unauditedly to various kleptocracies whose corrupt officials instantly either squander or nick it.

    I point out that a lot of it is in effect a voucher to be spent by the receiving country on services purchased in the UK, with that as a specific condition. So UK foreign aid to Malawi may consist of paying for McKinsey UK to consult on setting up their power generation industry, or on UK engineers designing hardware.

    Such foreign aid money is thus not nicked at all. It is largely spent in the UK, the skills and the credentials to do more such work accrue to UK workers in UK firms, and while it may or may not generate that much good will, it';s not going to generate ill will.

    Quite a lot of foreign aid work done by UK private companies is thus funded by public money.

    When you explain that it's like giving the unemployed food stamps rather than cash, even diehard UKIPpers alter their view a bit.
    Why not just pay the uk company directly then?
    State aid rules - EU State aid rules :)
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    It will be good for Farage and Clegg among their committed supporters - I doubt anyone else will tune in......

    OT - Putin has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.

    Who said satire was dead!

    Nominated by Bashar Assad, I'd imagine.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    It will be good for Farage and Clegg among their committed supporters - I doubt anyone else will tune in......

    OT - Putin has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.

    Who said satire was dead!

    I think the Nobel Prize story is a little Russian joke, Carlotta.

    It refers to his nomination for the 2013 Peace Prize and not a response to the current situation in the Ukraine.

    Still the headline is blazoned across ITAR-TASS's home page!
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited March 2014
    Start as a lowly ankle-checker, and work your way up.
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    It will be good for Farage and Clegg among their committed supporters - I doubt anyone else will tune in......

    OT - Putin has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.

    Who said satire was dead!

    It's no more farcical than Obama getting it.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited March 2014
    There was a teaser quote from debate between Farage and David Lammy in the Evening Standard last night. The quote went something along the lines of 'Young British people would rather watch the X factor than take low paid jobs as security guards etc.'

    I thought 'that's a bit strong from Farage.' Until I read the article and realised this had been said by.....er.......David Lammy.....(presumably now the member for Bucharest West).
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,238
    Anorak said:

    Start as a lowly ankle-checker, and work your way up.
    I always say start at the bottom.
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    I think Rihanna would insist on having a bloke who is a gayer.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    The first test of success for the Clegg-Farage debate will be what the BBC decides to broadcast simultaneously on BBC 1.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,896
    Neil said:

    Not great for the Greens either but I dont think Ofcom's ruling was perverse.

    What sort of result do you expect for the Greens? I'd guess 8-10%.

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    Gangbusters....

    "The brightening outlook has prompted firms to take on staff at a rate not seen before over the PMI surveys' 16-history," said Markit's chief economist Chris Williamson. "The survey is signalling a private employment rise of approximately 150,000 in the first quarter."

    http://uk.advfn.com/news/DJN/2014/article/61326113
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    norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 1m

    Labour on TV elex debates - "We have made clear we are ready to sign up to three-way debates as we had at the last election."
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Nick,

    FPT ...


    "Are you open to persuasion on this point?"

    I am. There are a lot of things we could do better. I've only worked with NDEs so I'd never defend cosmetic testing. As profit is the motive, as for any industry, there tends to be too many me-too drugs and a concentration on common illnesses.

    But the industry is always ultra-sensitive about details for commercial reasons and very worried about access. Having spent the eighties being advised to check the underside of my car for explosives, you can understand why. It may be an offence to disclose details but that's no help if your grannie has been dug up.

    Yes, it can be improved and oversight is needed. The EU and its directives helped to expand the number of animals used.

    The problem with using animals for basic research is that you can never be sure that basic research will lead to a breakthrough. It could do, it may not do. We can point to many cases where it did and many where it did no good at all.

    The old-fashioned trust the doctor, he knows best, has gone for ever. But it's where we draw the line that is the problem.

    I know I'm teaching Granny Palmer to suck eggs here and I fear we'll be boring the others, but it's pleasant to be able to have this debate without rancour.
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    Sigh, I'm going to have the image of Ed Miliband in a three-way for the rest of the day.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Sean_F said:

    Neil said:

    Not great for the Greens either but I dont think Ofcom's ruling was perverse.

    What sort of result do you expect for the Greens? I'd guess 8-10%.

    The head says it should be possible to beat 2009 by attracting a few disaffected Lib Dems so 8-10% sounds about right but I'm not counting any chickens. I'm more interested in seat tallies and would be happy with 3 and delighted with 4.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    Has no one mentioned the good news from Markit this morning?

    The third of three start of the month CIPS/Markit PMIs was published this morning. We have had manufacturing (up) and construction (down but still above 60): today's was the all important Services PMI.

    Nothing much to report here though except continued strong growth, confidence, employment and orders. The PMI came in almost unchanged from January at 58.2 (down 0.1).

    Significant that respondents were reporting lower inflationary expectations and pressures.

    Q1 2014 is beginning to look good with a stronger end to the fiscal year than forecast by the OBR in December.

    Onward and upward, George!
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Farage is better off if it's one to one. If it was all three of them at once he'd be getting hit with crossfire all the time and that's even if the audience wasn't rigged as well. Now he's got one to one he should stick with it imo.
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    AveryLP said:

    Has no one mentioned the good news from Markit this morning?

    The third of three start of the month CIPS/Markit PMIs was published this morning. We have had manufacturing (up) and construction (down but still above 60): today's was the all important Services PMI.

    Nothing much to report here though except continued strong growth, confidence, employment and orders. The PMI came in almost unchanged from January at 58.2 (down 0.1).

    Significant that respondents were reporting lower inflationary expectations and pressures.

    Q1 2014 is beginning to look good with a stronger end to the fiscal year than forecast by the OBR in December.

    Onward and upward, George!

    Just got there before you... gangbusters!
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    I totally disagree, few apart from dyed in the wool political anoraks will tune into this debate. And as for leading the agenda on the issue of our relationship in the EU, Cameron is currently the only Leader promising an In/Our Referendum if he wins a majority at the next GE. Clegg and Farage won't so much be left dancing around their handbags in this debate, but more like trying to chuck them at each other from well entrenched polar opposite sides of the debate while trying to avoid admitting that neither of them want to see Cameron ever actually get the chance to deliver that EU Referendum in the next Parliament. And as for Ed Miliband, well his personal polling will probable issue a huge sigh of relief that he has yet again gone AWOL.
    MaxPB said:

    Dave needs to get in on the action or he will be the big loser. Facing Farage down is the only way forthe Cons to regain the iinitiative. They need to get under his skin and make him lash out.

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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,883
    Afternoon all :)

    I'm pleased the Farage/Clegg debate is happening and undoubtedly the partisans on both sides will micro-analyse every word on here when it happens.

    Will it change many sides ? Perhaps, perhaps not but it will be good for an informed debate to take place and both Nick and Nigel will, I suspect, quite enjoy it.

    As OGH suggests, it probably won't do either the LDs or UKIP much harm and it will cement the idea that both represent a clear policy with regard to the EU.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,116
    Looks like Russia has full access to EU diplomatic traffic. The audio of a conversation between the Estonian FM and Catherine Ashton has been released in which he says that the snipers in Maidan were not hired by Yanukovich but by groups who are part of the new government.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    "The survey is signalling a private employment rise of approximately 150,000 in the first quarter."

    As Mike's last article points out, numbers do not matter. The polls are showing that Tthe tories trying to do a lap of honour on economic success will not win them the next election, or even make them the largest party.

    Voters will need to see the results in their pockets.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Onward and upward, George!

    Weren't you reading the last thread? The polls are showing that, so far, good economic news is just wall paper to the electorate.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    taffys said:

    "The survey is signalling a private employment rise of approximately 150,000 in the first quarter."

    As Mike's last article points out, numbers do not matter. The polls are showing that Tthe tories trying to do a lap of honour on economic success will not win them the next election, or even make them the largest party.

    Voters will need to see the results in their pockets.

    If the numbers are right they'll see the results sooner or later. A year should be enough time to for it to feed through.

    The pessimistic scenario for Con is the opposite: The voters get that the economy is recovering, but they either don't care, don't credit the government for it or, worst of all, credit the government for it but consider the job done, and are ready to put Labour back in until next time they think the economy needs some work...
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    taffys said:

    "The survey is signalling a private employment rise of approximately 150,000 in the first quarter."

    As Mike's last article points out, numbers do not matter. The polls are showing that Tthe tories trying to do a lap of honour on economic success will not win them the next election, or even make them the largest party.

    Voters will need to see the results in their pockets.

    Possibly true, taffys. But the real question which will be asked in May 2015 is not "can you feel the impact of the recovery?", or less, "are you grateful to the Tories and Lib Dems for their management of the economy?". Most people will state that things could be better and the electorate rarely expresses gratitude.

    The real question will be "do you want a change of government?" and "are you ready to take on the risks of the economy being managed by those who trashed it in 2005-10?".

    GE polling hasn't yet moved into the same phase as, say, SIndy polling, where voters are now being forced to make decisions on the basis of hard alternatives rather than vague dreams.

    When it does we will see the current Labour lead evaporate, but it won't be gratitude or admiration that erases it.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,976
    edited March 2014

    Looks like Russia has full access to EU diplomatic traffic. The audio of a conversation between the Estonian FM and Catherine Ashton has been released in which he says that the snipers in Maidan were not hired by Yanukovich but by groups who are part of the new government.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8

    I can't listen to the audio - but if this is how you portray it then it is clearly an example of Yanukovich/Russian propoganda.

    Its also more than likely a highly illegal action to tap phones of a foreign Gov't.

    I also note the shooting victims have been juxtaposed against the audio to create an emotional effect.

    But more importantly than all of the above is that the truth to this tale increasingly appears to be that it is not simply "Vlad the Bad" versus the forces of light and good from the EU - there is a complex web of forces at work here. And these shootings have not really been focussed on by western media so much as the 'Big bad Russia' angle.

    Tin foil hat time ?

    Maybe.
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    Fitalass

    You're thinking of this debate in terms of politics and assuming nobody will tune in. I disagree. Most will think of it in terms of entertainment. They'll tune in in to see Mr Pompous-Eurotwat and Mr EU-Whatabunchofwankers having a bitchfight live on telly. I suspect it will be hugely entertaining viewing. I'm secretly hoping Farage will tear Clegg to ribbons - although I suspect he won't succeed.

    Farage's Euro Parliament verbal onslaughts garner massive Youtube audiences for a reason. He's very very engaging. It will be fun. Alot more fun than Strictly or X-Factor!
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,955
    Given that Ed and Dave are not going to be there it will be interesting to see what the debate actually focuses on. Will it be party political or a more general EU right or wrong? Presumably it will be the latter. If it is, Dave and Ed will think they are much better off out of it - Dave especially.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited March 2014
    AveryLP said:

    FPT

    Indeed, Mr. Pioneers, but one might wish that Ed would put forward some honest, workable solutions. He ain't yet. If he ever does he will win a landslide.

    Indeed. We need a blank sheet of paper approach to the various large problems we have as a country. I start off with the things that people absolutely need and the economy needs which we apparently can't afford - housing, power, transport. What we need to do is stop waiting for the free market to provide and do it ourselves. Power and infrastructure projects pay out twice - when being built throgh wages paid to the workforce, and then through long term economic benefit. So we put these things out to tender and pay for the things we need and then reap the economic rewards from having the asset.

    Its called "investment".
    It is indeed called "investment", RP.

    But when a country is not generating surpluses on its current budget it can also be called "borrowing". And the costs involved in servicing such borrowing can be called "current expenditure".

    Existing spending and investment plans will see annual debt servicing costs rise to £75 billion per annum by 2017 just to fund our existing debt. That is around 70% of the amount the UK spends on Health per year and nearly twice what we spend on defence.

    Additional infrastructure funding over and above what is already planned will require unsustainable increases in debt which will not only increase our debt servicing costs pro rata but will also increase the amount we pay on all debt, due the markets increasing premia on interest rates in line with the increased risk posed by higher levels of borrowing.

    So until the UK starts generating surpluses on its current account, there is little option for it to radically increase infrastructure investment. This is why the current government is seeking external finance from foreign currency suplus holding countries for major projects in the UK: the deal with China on nuclear power being a key example. Even once surpluses are generated they will have to be split between debt reduction and increased investment to keep borrowing costs within manageable limits.

    Of course, none of this is understood by the children of Brown, who were brought up to believe that current spending and investment were equivalent.
    Can we not simply 'tax the bankers', or increase the higher rate to pay for it all?
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Clegg and Farage...like the TV warm up comedy act before the real show starts.
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    Given that Ed and Dave are not going to be there it will be interesting to see what the debate actually focuses on. Will it be party political or a more general EU right or wrong? Presumably it will be the latter. If it is, Dave and Ed will think they are much better off out of it - Dave especially.

    It will be the latter and a proxy of the IN or OUT referendum debate. So potentially quite important too if it moves polling much one way or the other on that issue.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,358
    CD13 said:

    Nick,

    ...the industry is always ultra-sensitive about details for commercial reasons and very worried about access. Having spent the eighties being advised to check the underside of my car for explosives, you can understand why. It may be an offence to disclose details but that's no help if your grannie has been dug up.

    Yes, it can be improved and oversight is needed. The EU and its directives helped to expand the number of animals used.

    The problem with using animals for basic research is that you can never be sure that basic research will lead to a breakthrough. It could do, it may not do. We can point to many cases where it did and many where it did no good at all.

    The old-fashioned trust the doctor, he knows best, has gone for ever. But it's where we draw the line that is the problem.

    I know I'm teaching Granny Palmer to suck eggs here and I fear we'll be boring the others, but it's pleasant to be able to have this debate without rancour.

    Sure. I voted for it because of the threats from nutters, and it's helpful that that's died down, but I appreciate that legislation still needs to allow for the possibility of fresh nutter stuff. I think there are various ways to get the project licences into the public domain without risk, though. Deleting all reference to people and places is a start, and the legislation could allow for the researcher to put a request to the Home Office for redaction of anything else that he felt was commercially secret or might indirectly disclose his identity.

    The basic issue is that the industry sees disclosure as a nuisance (like almost everyone affected by FOIA) - likely to lead to more debate about whether what they do should be allowed, more form-filling, who needs it? But serious critics like us are frustrated that we're not allowed basic information on what is being done on any terms - anonymity, time delay, whatever - so we could have a proper public discussion. We think we'd win some of the arguments. No doubt we'd lose some too. But scientists, more than anyone, shouldn't be so reluctant to discuss the facts. And given that reluctance, they shouldn't pretend we have a transparent system, when we quite explicitly and as a matter of policy do not.

    Another item to throw into the discussion of basic research. The official study on primate research a year or two back found that for 9% of experiments, the researchers were unable to suggest ANY way that the research might conceivably be of benefit to humans, ever. They just thought the research was interesting. I doubt if there is public consent for painful primate research that can't conceivably benefit humans, and at the least the specific experiments should be up for public discussion.

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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Looks like Russia has full access to EU diplomatic traffic. The audio of a conversation between the Estonian FM and Catherine Ashton has been released in which he says that the snipers in Maidan were not hired by Yanukovich but by groups who are part of the new government.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8

    The EU are complete amateurs - outgunned and outclassed by the Vlads.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    Patrick said:

    Fitalass

    You're thinking of this debate in terms of politics and assuming nobody will tune in. I disagree. Most will think of it in terms of entertainment. They'll tune in in to see Mr Pompous-Eurotwat and Mr EU-Whatabunchofwankers having a bitchfight live on telly. I suspect it will be hugely entertaining viewing. I'm secretly hoping Farage will tear Clegg to ribbons - although I suspect he won't succeed.

    Farage's Euro Parliament verbal onslaughts garner massive Youtube audiences for a reason. He's very very engaging. It will be fun. Alot more fun than Strictly or X-Factor!

    We will tune in to watch Clegg being slain by the throw of a loose apostrophe!

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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited March 2014
    On OGH's recent 2 threads about a voteless recovery - I would have thought showing up in opinion polls would be the ultimate lagging indicator as it needs to actually be felt by the voter first?

    Without doubt it's starting to be picked up in polling but so far in things like the economy falling as a priority when listings topical concerns, or views on how the economy will fare going forward etc.

    That's all MACRO, the voters need MICRO....

    I'll be buying this meme of OGH but not until the Autumn Statement and if still the case then in the polls.

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    An interesting element of introspection and reflection on the last thread.

    For myself in relation to the primal days of PB I reflect that I'm still here posting, a fact that twice now had seemed unlikely as the fat lady cleared her throat off stage in preparation for an oratorical special before I popped permanently into the welcoming arms of them folks downstairs/upstairs.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Clegg and Farage...like the TV warm up comedy act before the real show starts.

    Except that the "real show" is a no show.

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,955
    So farewell then BBC3.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited March 2014

    So farewell then BBC3.

    Would it have survived as a broadcast channel through a subscription service?
    I thought the plan was to move it online?
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,711

    So farewell then BBC3.

    Yep... the heights of 'Snog.Marry,Avoid' will never be seen again....
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    Looks like Russia has full access to EU diplomatic traffic. The audio of a conversation between the Estonian FM and Catherine Ashton has been released in which he says that the snipers in Maidan were not hired by Yanukovich but by groups who are part of the new government.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8

    Given that Putin seemed to be holding Yankowotsit back to prevent a media-friendly provocation that always seemed most likely.
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,548
    What it may show up is that the Lib Dems and UKIP have policies on the EU, Labour and Con only tactics.

    All the Tory EU referendum posturing is hiding the lack of policy. What renegotiation are they really after? Are they in or out if they don't get it? Why do we talk tough at home and then go on foreign visits making it easier for people to come here.

    Labour are (understandably) keeping quiet on Europe.

    So I wonder if we'll see some bromance between Nick and Nigel about how they are the only parties with clear policies on Europe. Voting for the others is an active "don't know" etc. If so, and they tag team the absent Cam / Mili, they could both come off very well indeed at the expense of the big 2.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,982

    So farewell then BBC3.

    Yep... the heights of 'Snog.Marry,Avoid' will never be seen again....
    Ja'mie Private Schoolgirl is worth a watch on that channel... Pretty funny
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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    I predict the debate will make no difference, as only zealots from the phile or phobe wings of the public will watch it. Two leaders of minor parties, debating on a channel no one watches about a subject no one cares about. Sorry to be a cynic.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Russian soldiers have taken over a Ukrainian naval air base in Saki, western Crimea.

    Beforehand, they allowed Ukrainian servicemen to remove four MI-8 helicopters and three planes and fly them to Mykolaiv in mainland Ukraine.

    Russian forces also seized two Ukrainian missile defence battalions in the Crimea region, Russia's Interfax news agency quoted a military source as saying."


    http://news.sky.com/story/1221142/ukraine-police-clear-pro-russia-protesters
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    isamisam Posts: 40,982
    JackW said:

    An interesting element of introspection and reflection on the last thread.

    For myself in relation to the primal days of PB I reflect that I'm still here posting, a fact that twice now had seemed unlikely as the fat lady cleared her throat off stage in preparation for an oratorical special before I popped permanently into the welcoming arms of them folks downstairs/upstairs.

    Was one of them when @thelastboyscout threatened to send the boys round unless you told him the ins and outs of your ARSE?
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,377

    Looks like Russia has full access to EU diplomatic traffic. The audio of a conversation between the Estonian FM and Catherine Ashton has been released in which he says that the snipers in Maidan were not hired by Yanukovich but by groups who are part of the new government.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8

    The EU are complete amateurs - outgunned and outclassed by the Vlads.
    UKraine Independence Party versus Clegg?

    Should be interesting :)
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Scottish comic, Donald MacLeod, is preparing to make an attempt to break the world record of telling 549 jokes in a hour.

    Unconfirmed reports indicate he may use the SNP Independence prospectus for material and in doing so will have much material to spare :

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-26432299
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,982
    edited March 2014
    BobaFett said:

    I predict the debate will make no difference, as only zealots from the phile or phobe wings of the public will watch it. Two leaders of minor parties, debating on a channel no one watches about a subject no one cares about. Sorry to be a cynic.

    MODERATED
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    edited March 2014
    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    I predict the debate will make no difference, as only zealots from the phile or phobe wings of the public will watch it. Two leaders of minor parties, debating on a channel no one watches about a subject no one cares about. Sorry to be a cynic.

    MODERATED
    Any need for that comment? Any particularly reason why you made it?
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    isam said:

    So farewell then BBC3.

    Yep... the heights of 'Snog.Marry,Avoid' will never be seen again....
    Ja'mie Private Schoolgirl is worth a watch on that channel... Pretty funny
    Is it as 'funny' as your comment upthread?
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    isam said:

    JackW said:

    An interesting element of introspection and reflection on the last thread.

    For myself in relation to the primal days of PB I reflect that I'm still here posting, a fact that twice now had seemed unlikely as the fat lady cleared her throat off stage in preparation for an oratorical special before I popped permanently into the welcoming arms of them folks downstairs/upstairs.

    Was one of them when @thelastboyscout threatened to send the boys round unless you told him the ins and outs of your ARSE?
    Many have threatened but faced with Mrs JackW's first line of defence, they have crumbled like OGH's will power in a sweet shop.

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,052
    re the debate

    I don't care if no-one watches it or if it doesn't change a single mind. I simply think that it is good that this issue will be properly debated.

    It will also - tangentially - be good for both Nige and Nick.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,982
    edited March 2014
    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    I predict the debate will make no difference, as only zealots from the phile or phobe wings of the public will watch it. Two leaders of minor parties, debating on a channel no one watches about a subject no one cares about. Sorry to be a cynic.

    MODERATED
    Any need for that comment? Any particularly reason why you made it?
    Quote from BlackAdder II, just came to mind as something to say to someone you dislike when they insincerely apologise for something
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,982
    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    So farewell then BBC3.

    Yep... the heights of 'Snog.Marry,Avoid' will never be seen again....
    Ja'mie Private Schoolgirl is worth a watch on that channel... Pretty funny
    Is it as 'funny' as your comment upthread?
    Humour is subjective I would have thought
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    rcs1000 said:

    re the debate

    I don't care if no-one watches it or if it doesn't change a single mind. I simply think that it is good that this issue will be properly debated.

    It will also - tangentially - be good for both Nige and Nick.

    If requested I'll send you an Easter egg.

  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Russia announces it is prepared to provide civil assistance to the Ukraine if invited:

    The Russian Central Election Commission may provide organizational assistance to hold a referendum in Crimea, CEC secretary Nikolai Konkin told Itar-Tass, making it clear there should be an official invitation.

    "In case there is an invitation, we will consider it," Konkin said.

    A decision on such assistance is CEC head Vladimir Churov's prerogative, he noted.
    A referendum on a status and powers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea is planned for March 30.


    It is easy to fail to look beyond the threat of tank barrels to see just how helpful Putin is prepared to be in advancing civil progress.
  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    BobaFett said:

    I predict the debate will make no difference, as only zealots from the phile or phobe wings of the public will watch it. Two leaders of minor parties, debating on a channel no one watches about a subject no one cares about. Sorry to be a cynic.

    Definitely wrong. These debates are showbiz - Britain's Got Immigrants, The EU Factor, Strictly Come Voting - and people will love this one.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,000
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: Speaking to Sky, Button put Mercedes and Williams as the top two teams. Williams seem to be the most reliable, and the other day I put tiny sums on Massa and Bottas at 40 and 65 to win the title.

    If one or both get podiums in Australia the odds should tumble (especially if Mercedes has one or two reliability failures).
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    edited March 2014
    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    I predict the debate will make no difference, as only zealots from the phile or phobe wings of the public will watch it. Two leaders of minor parties, debating on a channel no one watches about a subject no one cares about. Sorry to be a cynic.

    MODERATED
    Any need for that comment? Any particularly reason why you made it?
    Quote from BlackAdder II, just came to mind as something to say to someone you dislike when they insincerely apologise for something
    Err right. I think you may have a problem if you feel so strongly about someone you have never met who has never knowingly done anything to you. I'd advise not using that 'wit' of yours in public.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,377
    edited March 2014
    AveryLP said:

    Russia announces it is prepared to provide civil assistance to the Ukraine if invited:

    The Russian Central Election Commission may provide organizational assistance to hold a referendum in Crimea, CEC secretary Nikolai Konkin told Itar-Tass, making it clear there should be an official invitation.

    "In case there is an invitation, we will consider it," Konkin said.

    A decision on such assistance is CEC head Vladimir Churov's prerogative, he noted.
    A referendum on a status and powers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea is planned for March 30.


    It is easy to fail to look beyond the threat of tank barrels to see just how helpful Putin is prepared to be in advancing civil progress.

    "Realms of the Russian Bear", early 1990s IIRC.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xO5SH-ywQc
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,982
    edited March 2014
    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    I predict the debate will make no difference, as only zealots from the phile or phobe wings of the public will watch it. Two leaders of minor parties, debating on a channel no one watches about a subject no one cares about. Sorry to be a cynic.

    MODERATED
    Any need for that comment? Any particularly reason why you made it?
    Quote from BlackAdder II, just came to mind as something to say to someone you dislike when they insincerely apologise for something
    Err right. I think you may have a problem if you feel so strongly about someone you have never met who has never knowingly done anything to you. I'd advise not using that 'wit' of yours in public.
    It's ok I'll carry on doing as I like
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2014
    UKIP selection, Taunton Deane: Laura Bailhache.

    http://www.somersetcountygazette.co.uk/news/taunton_news/11050786.Laura_Bailhache_chosen_to_stand_for_UKIP_at_General_Election_in_Taunton_Deane/

    The seat now has a full line-up from the 5 main parties:

    Con: Rebecca Pow
    Lab: Neil Guild
    LD: Jeremy Browne
    UKIP: Laura Bailhache
    Green: Clive Martin
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,000
    Of course, if you want a lovely conversation do visit the enormo-haddock F1 blog, where Mr. Putney and I disagree on almost everything (except that Maldonado and Grosjean really shouldn't have the same numbers on the spreads):
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/f1-2014-second-and-third-tests.html
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,711
    BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking · 21 mins
    BBC Three to become online-only channel available through iPlayer - announcement due tomorrow, BBC News has learned http://bbc.in/MNfODe

    urgh..that phrase 'the BBC has learned'

    No..it means you just read it off other press reports...
  • Options
    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    Russia announces it is prepared to provide civil assistance to the Ukraine if invited:

    The Russian Central Election Commission may provide organizational assistance to hold a referendum in Crimea, CEC secretary Nikolai Konkin told Itar-Tass, making it clear there should be an official invitation.

    "In case there is an invitation, we will consider it," Konkin said.

    A decision on such assistance is CEC head Vladimir Churov's prerogative, he noted.
    A referendum on a status and powers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea is planned for March 30.


    It is easy to fail to look beyond the threat of tank barrels to see just how helpful Putin is prepared to be in advancing civil progress.

    "Realms of the Russian Bear", early 1990s IIRC.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xO5SH-ywQc
    That doesn't look like a Russian bear to me, Comrade.

    Have you checked its insignia?

    It is more likely to come from the Autonomous Republic of Alaska.

  • Options
    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Russia desperately back-pedalling in their treatment of Ukraine in an attempt to regain some goodwill from its inhabitants. A month ago they were in control of all of Ukraine, now, apart from Crimea, they have forced the rest of the country to firmly embrace the West. 15 years ago, even Poland being part of Nato was an offense to Russia, now Nato could end up right on the borders of Russia . Putin is loosing this one.

    AveryLP said:

    Russia announces it is prepared to provide civil assistance to the Ukraine if invited:

    The Russian Central Election Commission may provide organizational assistance to hold a referendum in Crimea, CEC secretary Nikolai Konkin told Itar-Tass, making it clear there should be an official invitation.

    "In case there is an invitation, we will consider it," Konkin said.

    A decision on such assistance is CEC head Vladimir Churov's prerogative, he noted.
    A referendum on a status and powers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea is planned for March 30.


    It is easy to fail to look beyond the threat of tank barrels to see just how helpful Putin is prepared to be in advancing civil progress.

  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,377
    AndyJS said:

    UKIP selection, Taunton Deane: Laura Bailhache.

    http://www.somersetcountygazette.co.uk/news/taunton_news/11050786.Laura_Bailhache_chosen_to_stand_for_UKIP_at_General_Election_in_Taunton_Deane/

    The seat now has a full line-up from the 5 main parties:

    Con: Rebecca Pow
    Lab: Neil Guild
    LD: Jeremy Browne
    UKIP: Laura Bailhache
    Green: Clive Martin

    Are the UKraine Independence Party standing in Sevastopol North?
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Can this be true, or is it Russian misinformation?
    http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/

    Were snipers set up by the Ukrainian protesters to fire on their own supporters?
    Seems farfetched, but not when large groups of neo fascists are supporting the new Ukrainian grouping now in power in Kiev.


  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,377
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    Russia announces it is prepared to provide civil assistance to the Ukraine if invited:

    The Russian Central Election Commission may provide organizational assistance to hold a referendum in Crimea, CEC secretary Nikolai Konkin told Itar-Tass, making it clear there should be an official invitation.

    "In case there is an invitation, we will consider it," Konkin said.

    A decision on such assistance is CEC head Vladimir Churov's prerogative, he noted.
    A referendum on a status and powers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea is planned for March 30.


    It is easy to fail to look beyond the threat of tank barrels to see just how helpful Putin is prepared to be in advancing civil progress.

    "Realms of the Russian Bear", early 1990s IIRC.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xO5SH-ywQc
    That doesn't look like a Russian bear to me, Comrade.

    Have you checked its insignia?

    It is more likely to come from the Autonomous Republic of Alaska.

    Comrade! Not sure about that, but are you referring to the Glorious Motherland's ownership of that territory pre-1867?

    Anyway, this definitely is a Russian "Bear"!

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou87i6Oq5M0
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,976
    JonathanD said:

    Russia desperately back-pedalling in their treatment of Ukraine in an attempt to regain some goodwill from its inhabitants. A month ago they were in control of all of Ukraine, now, apart from Crimea, they have forced the rest of the country to firmly embrace the West. 15 years ago, even Poland being part of Nato was an offense to Russia, now Nato could end up right on the borders of Russia . Putin is loosing this one.



    AveryLP said:

    Russia announces it is prepared to provide civil assistance to the Ukraine if invited:

    The Russian Central Election Commission may provide organizational assistance to hold a referendum in Crimea, CEC secretary Nikolai Konkin told Itar-Tass, making it clear there should be an official invitation.

    "In case there is an invitation, we will consider it," Konkin said.

    A decision on such assistance is CEC head Vladimir Churov's prerogative, he noted.
    A referendum on a status and powers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea is planned for March 30.


    It is easy to fail to look beyond the threat of tank barrels to see just how helpful Putin is prepared to be in advancing civil progress.

    Crimea is militarily the crucial bit of Ukraine for Russia though.

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,052
    MikeK said:

    Can this be true, or is it Russian misinformation?
    http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/

    Were snipers set up by the Ukrainian protesters to fire on their own supporters?
    Seems farfetched, but not when large groups of neo fascists are supporting the new Ukrainian grouping now in power in Kiev.


    Who knows?

    And who knew the Russian security services have got pretty much all the phones in Europe bugged?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,976
    @isam @Bobafett Are you two going to grab your own handbags or should I fetch them ?

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,976
    rcs1000 said:

    MikeK said:

    Can this be true, or is it Russian misinformation?
    http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/

    Were snipers set up by the Ukrainian protesters to fire on their own supporters?
    Seems farfetched, but not when large groups of neo fascists are supporting the new Ukrainian grouping now in power in Kiev.


    Who knows?

    And who knew the Russian security services have got pretty much all the phones in Europe bugged?
    Smart work by the Russian spooks imo.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,377
    MikeK said:

    Can this be true, or is it Russian misinformation?
    http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/

    Were snipers set up by the Ukrainian protesters to fire on their own supporters?
    Seems farfetched, but not when large groups of neo fascists are supporting the new Ukrainian grouping now in power in Kiev.


    UKIP and Russia share a common foe, Comrade - The EU!
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,982
    16 Overs for South Africa to survive, with two wickets remaining. Would be a fitting send off for Smith if they can hang on
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,982
    Pulpstar said:

    @isam @Bobafett Are you two going to grab your own handbags or should I fetch them ?

    Wouldn't be a fair fight for reasons I am unable to go into
  • Options
    PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 661
    edited March 2014
    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    I predict the debate will make no difference, as only zealots from the phile or phobe wings of the public will watch it. Two leaders of minor parties, debating on a channel no one watches about a subject no one cares about. Sorry to be a cynic.

    MODERATED
    Any need for that comment? Any particularly reason why you made it?
    Quote from BlackAdder II, just came to mind as something to say to someone you dislike when they insincerely apologise for something
    Err right. I think you may have a problem if you feel so strongly about someone you have never met who has never knowingly done anything to you. I'd advise not using that 'wit' of yours in public.
    It's ok I'll carry on doing as I like
    No.

    We have given bans temporary and permanent to posters who has threatened/wished violence/death on other posters.

    That sort of comment up thread is not acceptable.

    No more.



  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    John Lamont was reselected by the Conservatives to contest Berwickshire, Roxburgh & Selkirk by open primary on 16th February:

    http://news.stv.tv/scotland/264401-scottish-conservatives-choose-john-lamont-to-fight-seat-in-borders/
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,377
    rcs1000 said:

    MikeK said:

    Can this be true, or is it Russian misinformation?
    http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/

    Were snipers set up by the Ukrainian protesters to fire on their own supporters?
    Seems farfetched, but not when large groups of neo fascists are supporting the new Ukrainian grouping now in power in Kiev.


    Who knows?

    And who knew the Russian security services have got pretty much all the phones in Europe bugged?
    And the Americans haven't?
  • Options
    DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    I'm in the wrong game... I should take a leaf out of Dell's book and start charging money for old rope:
    Dell charging over £16.... TO INSTALL FIREFOX

    "Firefox takes about 10 minutes to install for anyone with even the most basic computing knowledge, meaning that Dell is charging more than £100 an hour to load a computer with the free and open-source software."
  • Options
    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Pulpstar said:

    JonathanD said:

    Russia desperately back-pedalling in their treatment of Ukraine in an attempt to regain some goodwill from its inhabitants. A month ago they were in control of all of Ukraine, now, apart from Crimea, they have forced the rest of the country to firmly embrace the West. 15 years ago, even Poland being part of Nato was an offense to Russia, now Nato could end up right on the borders of Russia . Putin is loosing this one.

    Crimea is militarily the crucial bit of Ukraine for Russia though.



    Of course, but firstly Russia already had the basing rights in the Crimea that it needed for its military strategy and secondly Russia's broader desire is for greater geopolitical power not just military. In loosing most of its influence in Ukraine to the West that power has decreased. Essentially it has won a battle but lost a war and their seizure of Crimea is a sign of weakness rather than strength.

    It also seems to have forced them to reveal their extensive bugging of European phones which will take the sting out of the NSA revelations they were so effectively managing.


  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited March 2014
    JonathanD said:

    Russia desperately back-pedalling in their treatment of Ukraine in an attempt to regain some goodwill from its inhabitants. A month ago they were in control of all of Ukraine, now, apart from Crimea, they have forced the rest of the country to firmly embrace the West. 15 years ago, even Poland being part of Nato was an offense to Russia, now Nato could end up right on the borders of Russia . Putin is loosing this one.

    AveryLP said:

    Russia announces it is prepared to provide civil assistance to the Ukraine if invited:

    The Russian Central Election Commission may provide organizational assistance to hold a referendum in Crimea, CEC secretary Nikolai Konkin told Itar-Tass, making it clear there should be an official invitation.

    "In case there is an invitation, we will consider it," Konkin said.

    A decision on such assistance is CEC head Vladimir Churov's prerogative, he noted.
    A referendum on a status and powers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea is planned for March 30.


    It is easy to fail to look beyond the threat of tank barrels to see just how helpful Putin is prepared to be in advancing civil progress.

    There's not a chance in hell of Ukraine joining NATO. The EU and US might get away with poking the bear in this case, but recruiting Ukraine to NATO would elicit a much stronger and more violent response.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @PBModerator

    You are butch.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,982
    edited March 2014

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    I predict the debate will make no difference, as only zealots from the phile or phobe wings of the public will watch it. Two leaders of minor parties, debating on a channel no one watches about a subject no one cares about. Sorry to be a cynic.

    MODERATED
    Any need for that comment? Any particularly reason why you made it?
    Quote from BlackAdder II, just came to mind as something to say to someone you dislike when they insincerely apologise for something
    Err right. I think you may have a problem if you feel so strongly about someone you have never met who has never knowingly done anything to you. I'd advise not using that 'wit' of yours in public.
    It's ok I'll carry on doing as I like
    No.

    We have given bans temporary and permanent to posters who has threatened/wished violence/death on other posters.

    That sort of comment up thread is not acceptable.

    No more.



    Oh leave off, really?! As if I meant it! It was a joke from Blackadder to Percy to make it clear how little he thought of him

    The rulings with this "new" guy really are something else. He is a troll and you just let it go

    I emailed you privately on the subject and no reply. Incredible really
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,982
    Kicking off in Cape Town big time... must see for any test cricket fan
  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @Pulpstar

    I'm not sure wishing someone dead can be categorised as handbags but still. I merely asked what on earth I have done to Isam to make him hate me so much? It's quite extraordinary, and depressing.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,976
    Putin has been the de facto leader of Russia for over 14 years now.

    Wonder if he is eyeing up Brezhnev's 18 year tenure... he is in good health for a 61 year old man and could yet break Stalin's record.
This discussion has been closed.