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I worry about humanity – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    TimS said:

    So Matt Goodwin's firm have published the following poll

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+2)
    CON: 20% (+1)
    RFM: 14% (=)
    LDM: 9% (=)
    GRN: 8% (=)
    SNP: 0% (-4)

    But his figures are bollocks

    lmao Goodwin's published headline figures based on an obviously error-strewn data table:

    Here's the data without adjustments. Looks clear to me that the table the headline figures are drawn from, once undecideds and likelihood to vote are factored in, is missing a row of data - the SNP figures should be Plaid's, Plaid's should be in the 'some other party' row.

    The error with the table is the rows from SNP down. Hard to know exactly what the problem is (many ways to build a set of tabs), but the SNP data isn't being pulled through and the code is skipping over to the Plaid data (then back round to the unweighted sample at the bottom).

    I find this very funny, but it's also very annoying. Casts a poor light on the industry that an outfit that can't check a three-page set of tables properly is publishing polls with BPC membership attached to them.



    https://x.com/markmcgeoghegan/status/1791476732807057507

    Has he Goodwinned the BPC?
    Can we perhaps have a PB rules exception for Peoplepolling?

    Last night it was decreed that the c bomb could be dropped for humanitarian reasons in relation to a small number of individuals.

    So the rule that one must not cast aspersions on the professionalism of members of the BPF could perhaps we waived for Mr Goodwin
    I am thinking about.

    Other pollsters have made screw ups and fixed it asap.

    So if this becomes a pattern...

    Edit - That said some of his ludicrously worded supplementaries means I take the piss out of him/ignore his polling.
    His polls always seem to show the Tories headed for certain extinction at the hands of the purist populist right. For the record, and for the avoidance of any doubt, this is entirely coincidental and the consequence of natural statistical variance.
    The latest poll from gold standard Survation by contrast has Reform on just 8%, 6% below where Goodwin has them and the Tories on 24%, 4% higher then Goodwin. Survation also have Labour a bit lower on 44%

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Maybe they just think they would be more protected with the bear than a man in the woods

    Very much the opposite. If you look on TikTok etc at the meme it is clear that women in general and young women in particular fear attack from unknown men more than they fear bears.

    This may well be not realistic, but on forums like this that are male dominated it is easy to miss how many women feel their lives are restricted by the presence of men and the contant fear of this, with the implied threat of sexual violence
    As a non drinker I have been on so many girls' night out, it truly is scary what they have to do to keep safe.

    I was designated drinks watcher when they went to the bogs or outside for a cig because getting spiked is something that is real.

    Never accept a drink from a stranger etc.

    I've seen how unsubtle some males can be when they think they're God's gift to women.
    Some US uni students, men weirdly, created a chemical addition to nail varnish that changed colour if certain date rape drugs were in a drink which was a good idea but I think they need to put the detection chemical in drinking straws if safe so the straw changes colour.

    It’s really grim the sort of shit women do have to put up with from guys on a night out. There’s now a thing where creeps are filming pissed girls at night in revealing outfits and posting all over social media. If these guys spent less time working out how to drug or upskirt women and more time talking like a normal person they might actually find a girlfriend.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Leon said:

    How many PBers have seen a bear in the wild?

    I have. Driving through Mesa Verde National Park in Colorado. Superb. A momma black bear just crossing the road as I drove

    It is one of my remaining wildlife ambitions to see a polar bear in the wild. Imagine!

    Yes. In Alaska. It wasn’t in the woods though, so can give an opinion on their shitting habits.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    boulay said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Maybe they just think they would be more protected with the bear than a man in the woods

    Very much the opposite. If you look on TikTok etc at the meme it is clear that women in general and young women in particular fear attack from unknown men more than they fear bears.

    This may well be not realistic, but on forums like this that are male dominated it is easy to miss how many women feel their lives are restricted by the presence of men and the contant fear of this, with the implied threat of sexual violence
    As a non drinker I have been on so many girls' night out, it truly is scary what they have to do to keep safe.

    I was designated drinks watcher when they went to the bogs or outside for a cig because getting spiked is something that is real.

    Never accept a drink from a stranger etc.

    I've seen how unsubtle some males can be when they think they're God's gift to women.
    Some US uni students, men weirdly, created a chemical addition to nail varnish that changed colour if certain date rape drugs were in a drink which was a good idea but I think they need to put the detection chemical in drinking straws if safe so the straw changes colour.

    It’s really grim the sort of shit women do have to put up with from guys on a night out. There’s now a thing where creeps are filming pissed girls at night in revealing outfits and posting all over social media. If these guys spent less time working out how to drug or upskirt women and more time talking like a normal person they might actually find a girlfriend.
    It's not an issue these days thanks to Uber but when I was student/early 2000s the big danger was unlicensed taxis for women.

    I made sure everybody got home safely.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962

    On the header poll, those who are knowledgeable about gay culture will be aware that a 'bear' is hairy and cuddly but particularly harmless, especially, of course, to women, in whom they have no interest. So the results are no surprise.

    Dunno, I'm fairly sure some gay lads with a taste for that sort of thing would like bears to get all harmful on their ass.

    What the poor domesticated equine has done to deserve, this who knows?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    edited May 17
    Grizzly bears in Yellowstone, many years ago. I was riding a Honda 50 motorcycle, which made the encounter more interesting. I gave them the right of way.

    A black bear years ago, at a camp site. I had done the usual thing, put all our food in a back pack, threw a stick with a cord attached over a branch, tied the cord to the back pack, and then hoisted the back pack up with the cord, out of the bear's reach.

    Some other campers who hadn't taken that precaution lost a little food. Bears at some camp sites have figured out that they can get the food by attacking the knot at the bottom end of the cord, but this one hadn't, or didn't feel the need to.

    (Many years ago, some Yellowstone grizzlies had discovered they could pop open VW bugs, by jumping on top of the locked cars.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    On the header poll, those who are knowledgeable about gay culture will be aware that a 'bear' is hairy and cuddly but particularly harmless, especially, of course, to women, in whom they have no interest. So the results are no surprise.

    Dunno, I'm fairly sure some gay lads with a taste for that sort of thing would like bears to get all harmful on their ass.

    What the poor domesticated equine has done to deserve, this who knows?
    And just think about Scotland where the kind of 'bear' one encounters may also be hairy and may or may not be cuddly but is most certainly likely to wear a Glasgow Rangers FC strip - which may also influence the polling.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Grizzly bears in Yellowstone, many years ago. I was riding a Honda 50 motorcycle, which made the encounter more interesting. I gave them the right of way.

    A black bear years ago, at a camp site. I had done the usual thing, put all our food in a back pack, threw a stick with a cord attached over a branch, tied the cord to the back pack, and then hoisted the back pack up with the cord, out of the bear's reach.

    Some other campers who hadn't taken that precaution lost a little food. Bears at some camp sites have figured out that they can get the food by attacking the knot at the bottom end of the cord, but this one hadn't, or didn't feel the need to.

    (Many years ago, some Yellowstone grizzlies had discovered they could pop open VW bugs, by jumping on top of the locked cars.)

    Thank you for the advice Officer Dibble.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Carnyx said:

    On the header poll, those who are knowledgeable about gay culture will be aware that a 'bear' is hairy and cuddly but particularly harmless, especially, of course, to women, in whom they have no interest. So the results are no surprise.

    Dunno, I'm fairly sure some gay lads with a taste for that sort of thing would like bears to get all harmful on their ass.

    What the poor domesticated equine has done to deserve, this who knows?
    And just think about Scotland where the kind of 'bear' one encounters may also be hairy and may or may not be cuddly but is most certainly likely to wear a Glasgow Rangers FC strip - which may also influence the polling.
    Animal lover though I am, that sort of bear should be shot on sight.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Grizzly bears in Yellowstone, many years ago. I was riding a Honda 50 motorcycle, which made the encounter more interesting. I gave them the right of way.

    A black bear years ago, at a camp site. I had done the usual thing, put all our food in a back pack, threw a stick with a cord attached over a branch, tied the cord to the back pack, and then hoisted the back pack up with the cord, out of the bear's reach.

    Some other campers who hadn't taken that precaution lost a little food. Bears at some camp sites have figured out that they can get the food by attacking the knot at the bottom end of the cord, but this one hadn't, or didn't feel the need to.

    (Many years ago, some Yellowstone grizzlies had discovered they could pop open VW bugs, by jumping on top of the locked cars.)

    That's great stuff.

    Happy memories of the school milk at elevenses in the sixties anmd how some of the milk had been pre-opened - some blue tits had learned to peck open the bottle tops to drink the cream And then shown the others how to do it. Your bears are obviouslyt doing the same thing, only on a larger scale!

    https://www.facebook.com/BBCArchive/videos/1958-news-tits-opening-milk-bottles/510619865977715/
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    boulay said:

    Grizzly bears in Yellowstone, many years ago. I was riding a Honda 50 motorcycle, which made the encounter more interesting. I gave them the right of way.

    A black bear years ago, at a camp site. I had done the usual thing, put all our food in a back pack, threw a stick with a cord attached over a branch, tied the cord to the back pack, and then hoisted the back pack up with the cord, out of the bear's reach.

    Some other campers who hadn't taken that precaution lost a little food. Bears at some camp sites have figured out that they can get the food by attacking the knot at the bottom end of the cord, but this one hadn't, or didn't feel the need to.

    (Many years ago, some Yellowstone grizzlies had discovered they could pop open VW bugs, by jumping on top of the locked cars.)

    Thank you for the advice Officer Dibble.
    I’m such an absolute giant arse - officer dibble was in top cat, I meant Ranger Smith.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    edited May 17

    On the header poll, those who are knowledgeable about gay culture will be aware that a 'bear' is hairy and cuddly but particularly harmless, especially, of course, to women, in whom they have no interest. So the results are no surprise.

    Dunno, I'm fairly sure some gay lads with a taste for that sort of thing would like bears to get all harmful on their ass.

    What the poor domesticated equine has done to deserve, this who knows?
    Er, equine? don't you mean ursine? Or is that another kind of furry?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Carnyx said:

    Grizzly bears in Yellowstone, many years ago. I was riding a Honda 50 motorcycle, which made the encounter more interesting. I gave them the right of way.

    A black bear years ago, at a camp site. I had done the usual thing, put all our food in a back pack, threw a stick with a cord attached over a branch, tied the cord to the back pack, and then hoisted the back pack up with the cord, out of the bear's reach.

    Some other campers who hadn't taken that precaution lost a little food. Bears at some camp sites have figured out that they can get the food by attacking the knot at the bottom end of the cord, but this one hadn't, or didn't feel the need to.

    (Many years ago, some Yellowstone grizzlies had discovered they could pop open VW bugs, by jumping on top of the locked cars.)

    That's great stuff.

    Happy memories of the school milk at elevenses in the sixties anmd how some of the milk had been pre-opened - some blue tits had learned to peck open the bottle tops to drink the cream And then shown the others how to do it. Your bears are obviouslyt doing the same thing, only on a larger scale!

    https://www.facebook.com/BBCArchive/videos/1958-news-tits-opening-milk-bottles/510619865977715/
    Blue Tits these days don’t know how good they’ve got it, all those Hello Fresh deliveries to tuck into, none of this boring old milk nonsense like their grandparents.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Grizzly bears in Yellowstone, many years ago. I was riding a Honda 50 motorcycle, which made the encounter more interesting. I gave them the right of way.

    A black bear years ago, at a camp site. I had done the usual thing, put all our food in a back pack, threw a stick with a cord attached over a branch, tied the cord to the back pack, and then hoisted the back pack up with the cord, out of the bear's reach.

    Some other campers who hadn't taken that precaution lost a little food. Bears at some camp sites have figured out that they can get the food by attacking the knot at the bottom end of the cord, but this one hadn't, or didn't feel the need to.

    (Many years ago, some Yellowstone grizzlies had discovered they could pop open VW bugs, by jumping on top of the locked cars.)

    That's great stuff.

    Happy memories of the school milk at elevenses in the sixties anmd how some of the milk had been pre-opened - some blue tits had learned to peck open the bottle tops to drink the cream And then shown the others how to do it. Your bears are obviouslyt doing the same thing, only on a larger scale!

    https://www.facebook.com/BBCArchive/videos/1958-news-tits-opening-milk-bottles/510619865977715/
    Blue Tits these days don’t know how good they’ve got it, all those Hello Fresh deliveries to tuck into, none of this boring old milk nonsense like their grandparents.
    They can cook? Now that really is another example of Blue Tit cultural evolution to add to what I was taught at uni.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Soz, I do not have the energy to write any proper threads this afternoon.

    It's OK don't worry, we'll just carry on with our nightly Starmerhate-fest regardless.

    So Matt Goodwin's firm have published the following poll

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+2)
    CON: 20% (+1)
    RFM: 14% (=)
    LDM: 9% (=)
    GRN: 8% (=)
    SNP: 0% (-4)

    But his figures are bollocks

    lmao Goodwin's published headline figures based on an obviously error-strewn data table:

    Here's the data without adjustments. Looks clear to me that the table the headline figures are drawn from, once undecideds and likelihood to vote are factored in, is missing a row of data - the SNP figures should be Plaid's, Plaid's should be in the 'some other party' row.

    The error with the table is the rows from SNP down. Hard to know exactly what the problem is (many ways to build a set of tabs), but the SNP data isn't being pulled through and the code is skipping over to the Plaid data (then back round to the unweighted sample at the bottom).

    I find this very funny, but it's also very annoying. Casts a poor light on the industry that an outfit that can't check a three-page set of tables properly is publishing polls with BPC membership attached to them.



    https://x.com/markmcgeoghegan/status/1791476732807057507

    Can we add Goodwin to @rcs1000 's authorised "c" bomb list?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    edited May 17
    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Grizzly bears in Yellowstone, many years ago. I was riding a Honda 50 motorcycle, which made the encounter more interesting. I gave them the right of way.

    A black bear years ago, at a camp site. I had done the usual thing, put all our food in a back pack, threw a stick with a cord attached over a branch, tied the cord to the back pack, and then hoisted the back pack up with the cord, out of the bear's reach.

    Some other campers who hadn't taken that precaution lost a little food. Bears at some camp sites have figured out that they can get the food by attacking the knot at the bottom end of the cord, but this one hadn't, or didn't feel the need to.

    (Many years ago, some Yellowstone grizzlies had discovered they could pop open VW bugs, by jumping on top of the locked cars.)

    That's great stuff.

    Happy memories of the school milk at elevenses in the sixties anmd how some of the milk had been pre-opened - some blue tits had learned to peck open the bottle tops to drink the cream And then shown the others how to do it. Your bears are obviouslyt doing the same thing, only on a larger scale!

    https://www.facebook.com/BBCArchive/videos/1958-news-tits-opening-milk-bottles/510619865977715/
    Blue Tits these days don’t know how good they’ve got it, all those Hello Fresh deliveries to tuck into, none of this boring old milk nonsense like their grandparents.
    They can cook? Now that really is another example of Blue Tit cultural evolution to add to what I was taught at uni.
    Hello fresh comes with easy to follow instructions so no problem for the blue tits.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    Carnyx said:

    On the header poll, those who are knowledgeable about gay culture will be aware that a 'bear' is hairy and cuddly but particularly harmless, especially, of course, to women, in whom they have no interest. So the results are no surprise.

    Dunno, I'm fairly sure some gay lads with a taste for that sort of thing would like bears to get all harmful on their ass.

    What the poor domesticated equine has done to deserve, this who knows?
    Er, equine? don't you mean ursine? Or is that another kind of furry?
    I fear this might be blurry, but ass =




  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632

    Soz, I do not have the energy to write any proper threads this afternoon.

    It's OK don't worry, we'll just carry on with our nightly Starmerhate-fest regardless.

    So Matt Goodwin's firm have published the following poll

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+2)
    CON: 20% (+1)
    RFM: 14% (=)
    LDM: 9% (=)
    GRN: 8% (=)
    SNP: 0% (-4)

    But his figures are bollocks

    lmao Goodwin's published headline figures based on an obviously error-strewn data table:

    Here's the data without adjustments. Looks clear to me that the table the headline figures are drawn from, once undecideds and likelihood to vote are factored in, is missing a row of data - the SNP figures should be Plaid's, Plaid's should be in the 'some other party' row.

    The error with the table is the rows from SNP down. Hard to know exactly what the problem is (many ways to build a set of tabs), but the SNP data isn't being pulled through and the code is skipping over to the Plaid data (then back round to the unweighted sample at the bottom).

    I find this very funny, but it's also very annoying. Casts a poor light on the industry that an outfit that can't check a three-page set of tables properly is publishing polls with BPC membership attached to them.



    https://x.com/markmcgeoghegan/status/1791476732807057507

    Can we add Goodwin to @rcs1000 's authorised "c" bomb list?
    He doesn't have the depth nor the warmth to be one.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    On the bear question, there is a rich seam of data and hilarity in the full survey report, including the other question, which is comparing a woman you don't know and a bear. The 8% of men who would rather be stuck with a bear than a woman are probably over represented on PB.
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Man_vs_bear.pdf
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Fuck landlords! That’s convinced me to vote Labour.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Fuck landlords! That’s convinced me to vote Labour.
    'Rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city — except for bombing,'
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Paywalled. Does she say, please, if (a) it's optional and (b) who decides? The council?

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    Carnyx said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Paywalled. Does she say, please, if (a) it's optional and (b) who decides? The council?

    Labour’s shadow chancellor has opened the door to rent caps, arguing they could be beneficial if brought in for local areas.

    Rachel Reeves insisted she was against a “blanket approach”, but said there may be a “case” for rent controls on a local level.

    In an interview with BBC Radio Essex, she suggested councils should get a say on whether to bring in new restrictions, arguing that it “should be up to local areas to decide”.

    Ms Reeves was speaking after a Labour-commissioned report found that rents should be capped for tenants who could not afford rising costs.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Carnyx said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Paywalled. Does she say, please, if (a) it's optional and (b) who decides? The council?

    Labour’s shadow chancellor has opened the door to rent caps, arguing they could be beneficial if brought in for local areas.

    Rachel Reeves insisted she was against a “blanket approach”, but said there may be a “case” for rent controls on a local level.

    In an interview with BBC Radio Essex, she suggested councils should get a say on whether to bring in new restrictions, arguing that it “should be up to local areas to decide”.

    Ms Reeves was speaking after a Labour-commissioned report found that rents should be capped for tenants who could not afford rising costs.
    Thank you.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    edited May 17

    Carnyx said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Paywalled. Does she say, please, if (a) it's optional and (b) who decides? The council?

    Labour’s shadow chancellor has opened the door to rent caps, arguing they could be beneficial if brought in for local areas.

    Rachel Reeves insisted she was against a “blanket approach”, but said there may be a “case” for rent controls on a local level.

    In an interview with BBC Radio Essex, she suggested councils should get a say on whether to bring in new restrictions, arguing that it “should be up to local areas to decide”.

    Ms Reeves was speaking after a Labour-commissioned report found that rents should be capped for tenants who could not afford rising costs.
    If this is part of Labour's policy to devolve more power to local councils, what's not to like?
    You never know, the odd Tory council may jump at the chance if they think it would reduce pressure on their housing stock, and homelessness.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Fuck landlords! That’s convinced me to vote Labour.
    'Rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city — except for bombing,'
    Exactly as I predicted in a thread a few days ago. I *despise* landlords, but all this means is more pain for tenants. Simple supply and demand.

    And before anyone comes back with the "good, more people can own their own place" argument, that's not much comfort to those who are geograpically mobile, or unable to afford their own place or a deposit to save up for one.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    kyf_100 said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Fuck landlords! That’s convinced me to vote Labour.
    'Rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city — except for bombing,'
    Exactly as I predicted in a thread a few days ago. I *despise* landlords, but all this means is more pain for tenants. Simple supply and demand.

    And before anyone comes back with the "good, more people can own their own place" argument, that's not much comfort to those who are geograpically mobile, or unable to afford their own place or a deposit to save up for one.
    We have already seen that rent controls don't work - look at Scotland.

    Problem is the only fix is to build x million new homes and as I pointed out on Twitter in a chat with Dave Herdson earlier - we only just about have the capacity to build the houses we currently build we definitely don't have the skillset to increase that by 10% let alone the 150-200% we require...

    And if we want lower rents - we need an awful lot of houses built...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    Carnyx said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Paywalled. Does she say, please, if (a) it's optional and (b) who decides? The council?

    b - the council decides
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,041

    Carnyx said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Paywalled. Does she say, please, if (a) it's optional and (b) who decides? The council?

    Labour’s shadow chancellor has opened the door to rent caps, arguing they could be beneficial if brought in for local areas.

    Rachel Reeves insisted she was against a “blanket approach”, but said there may be a “case” for rent controls on a local level.

    In an interview with BBC Radio Essex, she suggested councils should get a say on whether to bring in new restrictions, arguing that it “should be up to local areas to decide”.

    Ms Reeves was speaking after a Labour-commissioned report found that rents should be capped for tenants who could not afford rising costs.
    If this is part of Labour's policy to devolve more power to local councils, what's not to like?
    You never know, the odd Tory council may jump at the chance if they think it would reduce pressure on their housing stock, and homelessness.
    Good evening

    This is the first serious misstep by Reeves and I am very surprised

    Rent controls do not work
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,059
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    Carnyx said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Paywalled. Does she say, please, if (a) it's optional and (b) who decides? The council?

    Labour’s shadow chancellor has opened the door to rent caps, arguing they could be beneficial if brought in for local areas.

    Rachel Reeves insisted she was against a “blanket approach”, but said there may be a “case” for rent controls on a local level.

    In an interview with BBC Radio Essex, she suggested councils should get a say on whether to bring in new restrictions, arguing that it “should be up to local areas to decide”.

    Ms Reeves was speaking after a Labour-commissioned report found that rents should be capped for tenants who could not afford rising costs.
    If this is part of Labour's policy to devolve more power to local councils, what's not to like?
    You never know, the odd Tory council may jump at the chance if they think it would reduce pressure on their housing stock, and homelessness.
    Good evening

    This is the first serious misstep by Reeves and I am very surprised

    Rent controls do not work
    If highly targeted they could potentially work. They absolutely don’t work at city or regional level, but as a form of localised social engineering perhaps there’s a role for them. The housing benefit cap did huge damage to the social fabric of inner city London: social cleansing, with most areas now largely uniformly only available to the very richest. So if localised rental caps reverse some of that then good.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    The volte face on Ecohealth by the US Congress is a bit like the Cass Report. Years of weird madness - it came from the market! Ignore the bat virus lab 200 yards away!! - have come to a juddering halt
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    I don’t recall you ever putting your head over the parapet before. Forgive me if I don’t applaud you now
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,037
    edited May 17

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Hitler and the Nazis maintained and extended the rent controls instituted by the Weimar Republic in 1922. So let's not slander Ms Reeves. She's as bad as Hitler in this case, but not obviously worse than him.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    Leon said:

    The volte face on Ecohealth by the US Congress is a bit like the Cass Report. Years of weird madness - it came from the market! Ignore the bat virus lab 200 yards away!! - have come to a juddering halt

    No, those two are very different. The origin of Covid question is binary: either it leaked from a lab or not. And I think we all know it probably leaked from a lab.

    The treatment of some of the most vulnerable young people in the country is not binary. It demands understanding, nuance, and the rejection of extreme positions on all sides.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    I don’t recall you ever putting your head over the parapet before. Forgive me if I don’t applaud you now
    I’ve been on team lab leak since at least 2021.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    I don’t recall you ever putting your head over the parapet before. Forgive me if I don’t applaud you now
    To be fair, TimS and I, plus a few other PB regulars were on Reddit in 2017 agreeing it was a lab leak. Some people though didn’t cotton on until 2020 where they were behind the curve and not seeing world changing things before they happened. Up your game.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,081
    I cannot help but feel that being with a bear in the woods is an ideal position to answer the eternal question and, should it be in the positive, provide toilet paper and perhaps a little paw wetwipe. This is obviously the sensible approach.

    (narrator: bears are evil land sharks in a fur coat and should be shot on sight)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    By which you mean the Chinese, right? Who maintained air travel in and out to ensure spread to the rest of the world?
    The UK probably did more to contaminate the world than the Chinese. All politicians, the world over, need to consider quite why air travel continued as it did.
    The UK? Not even the first place to be hit hard by Covid in Europe?

    I'd have plenty to criticise about the UK response to the pandemic but, "more responsible for global spread than the Chinese," isn't on my radar.

    What a bizarre opinion.
    Bizarre or not, the airports in the UK are perhaps the most intense possible sources on the planet.
    US domestic airline traffic bounced back very quickly, and all the evidence showed that airtravel had negligible effect on spread. There were some superspreader events, when one highly infectious person infected a dozen or more people, but overall states where air travel was essentially unchanged (i.e. Florida-Texas) had no meaningful increase in infection rates.

    So, while partygoers in Spain returning home with Covid might have been a factor, air travel in itself does not seem to have had any measureable effect once the virus has taken hold. (And that's not surprising, because you are going to be exporting people with Covid at roughly the same rate that you import them.)
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    edited May 17
    viewcode said:

    I cannot help but feel that being with a bear in the woods is an ideal position to answer the eternal question and, should it be in the positive, provide toilet paper and perhaps a little paw wetwipe. This is obviously the sensible approach.

    (narrator: bears are evil land sharks in a fur coat and should be shot on sight)

    So the question should have been “do men shit in the woods”. I think I’ve shat in the woods once, as a teenager. Never since.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    I think the question needs to be more specific. What about a bear that identifies as a man? Is species something that is really assigned at birth and which is unchangeable?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Scott_xP said:

    @TomWitherow

    New: Post Office's top lawyer has refused to give evidence to the public inquiry and can not be compelled as she lives abroad.

    Inquiry counsel Jason Beer KC: “We're not going to hear from her, she lives abroad and won't cooperate”.

    I would say that was shocking. But - frankly - by this point I'm beyond being shocked.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The volte face on Ecohealth by the US Congress is a bit like the Cass Report. Years of weird madness - it came from the market! Ignore the bat virus lab 200 yards away!! - have come to a juddering halt

    No, those two are very different. The origin of Covid question is binary: either it leaked from a lab or not. And I think we all know it probably leaked from a lab.

    The treatment of some of the most vulnerable young people in the country is not binary. It demands understanding, nuance, and the rejection of extreme positions on all sides.
    No. The parallel is the insanity of both positions

    A novel bat coronavirus with weird signs of extra pathogenicity emerges in the one city in the world with a lab trying to make novel bat coronaviruses more pathogenic - but saying there is a link is a racist conspiracy theory!

    See also

    Men can be women just by saying they are and they should then be allowed access to women’s sports and prisons and safe spaces and it’s normal that suddenly millions of kids don’t know what gender they are for the first time in history

    Both are obviously and totally crazy; both were the official and firmly enforced consensus for years. Both have done terrible damage. One prevented us properly investigating a virus that killed 20m people; one has damaged many thousands of lives
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    TimS said:

    viewcode said:

    I cannot help but feel that being with a bear in the woods is an ideal position to answer the eternal question and, should it be in the positive, provide toilet paper and perhaps a little paw wetwipe. This is obviously the sensible approach.

    (narrator: bears are evil land sharks in a fur coat and should be shot on sight)

    So the question should have been “do men shit in the woods”. I think I’ve shat in the woods once, as a teenager. Never since.
    Still, better than Amber Heard.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,059
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    What taboo? People have been going on about the “Lab leak” for years!

    It’s a majority Republican committee, with one its members being Marjorie Taylor Greene, so I could barely rustle up the interest to look at what they said. But I did, and what they said doesn’t remotely prove there was a lab leak. It’s half a dozen steps from proving anything. It’s like when SeanT kept telling us how some US Committee proved UFOs exist: excitable nonsense.

    Everything else we know — where the first cases were, the genetic variation in the early cases, the environmental samples from the wet market, etc. — all demonstrate that this was a zoonotic event, like every other pandemic.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    Oh dear! That's a cred destroyer if ever there was one. It's a bit lazy but you won't do too badly if you just blithely assume that everything a Trump apologist says is wrong.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    I don’t recall you ever putting your head over the parapet before. Forgive me if I don’t applaud you now
    To be fair, TimS and I, plus a few other PB regulars were on Reddit in 2017 agreeing it was a lab leak. Some people though didn’t cotton on until 2020 where they were behind the curve and not seeing world changing things before they happened. Up your game.
    You were talking about Covid 2 years before it broke out?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    edited May 17

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    What taboo? People have been going on about the “Lab leak” for years!

    It’s a majority Republican committee, with one its members being Marjorie Taylor Greene, so I could barely rustle up the interest to look at what they said. But I did, and what they said doesn’t remotely prove there was a lab leak. It’s half a dozen steps from proving anything. It’s like when SeanT kept telling us how some US Committee proved UFOs exist: excitable nonsense.

    Everything else we know — where the first cases were, the genetic variation in the early cases, the environmental samples from the wet market, etc. — all demonstrate that this was a zoonotic event, like every other pandemic.
    Hang on.

    The first cases happened to be in the same city where there just happened to be the world's number one bat virus research facility.

    That's a hell of a coincidence. Not impossible, sure. But a hell of a coincidence.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The volte face on Ecohealth by the US Congress is a bit like the Cass Report. Years of weird madness - it came from the market! Ignore the bat virus lab 200 yards away!! - have come to a juddering halt

    No, those two are very different. The origin of Covid question is binary: either it leaked from a lab or not. And I think we all know it probably leaked from a lab.

    The treatment of some of the most vulnerable young people in the country is not binary. It demands understanding, nuance, and the rejection of extreme positions on all sides.
    No. The parallel is the insanity of both positions

    A novel bat coronavirus with weird signs of extra pathogenicity emerges in the one city in the world with a lab trying to make novel bat coronaviruses more pathogenic - but saying there is a link is a racist conspiracy theory!

    See also

    Men can be women just by saying they are and they should then be allowed access to women’s sports and prisons and safe spaces and it’s normal that suddenly millions of kids don’t know what gender they are for the first time in history

    Both are obviously and totally crazy; both were the official and firmly enforced consensus for years. Both have done terrible damage. One prevented us properly investigating a virus that killed 20m people; one has damaged many thousands of lives
    The prevalence of transgenderism in the general population is about 0.5%, which is more or less where it's always been. The difference is the era you and I grew up in, such people were the subject of ridicule - think jokes about 'The Crying Game', Jerry Springer, etc. While the yoof of today don't give a shit. There's just as many of them about as they always were, it's just much more visible now, because times have moved on.

    Comparing people with a non-mainstream gender identity to a lab leak conspiracy is a weird, Alex Jones, "turning the friggin' frogs gay" vibe. But you do you.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @TomWitherow

    New: Post Office's top lawyer has refused to give evidence to the public inquiry and can not be compelled as she lives abroad.

    Inquiry counsel Jason Beer KC: “We're not going to hear from her, she lives abroad and won't cooperate”.

    Well, there’s only one conclusion to be drawn, isn’t there? Can this person be arrested if they set foot on British territory in the future?
    I guess Cyclefree would be the one who would know if the inquiry has a standing like court where if they summon her (the PO Lawyer not CF) and she doesn’t attend then they can issue a warrant in which case she would be arrested if she arrived in the UK.

    Failing that they could go full Shanina Begum and take away her citizenship.
    I don't think you can strip someone of their citizenship for failing to turn up at a public enquiry.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    What taboo? People have been going on about the “Lab leak” for years!

    It’s a majority Republican committee, with one its members being Marjorie Taylor Greene, so I could barely rustle up the interest to look at what they said. But I did, and what they said doesn’t remotely prove there was a lab leak. It’s half a dozen steps from proving anything. It’s like when SeanT kept telling us how some US Committee proved UFOs exist: excitable nonsense.

    Everything else we know — where the first cases were, the genetic variation in the early cases, the environmental samples from the wet market, etc. — all demonstrate that this was a zoonotic event, like every other pandemic.
    You’re behind the times. Virologists are now so panicked they’ve switched to saying “oh well if it came from an animal in the lab that’s still technically a natural origin and zoonosis so we’re good”

    **BREAKING***

    Virologist Susan Weiss asserts that if COVID-19 came from a lab worker being infected w/ SARS-CoV-2, this would not be a "lab leak" but rather a zoonotic origin (because it would be a jump from a non-human to a human)

    https://x.com/bryce_nickels/status/1790482557131489610?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It would be comical - if it weren’t for the 20 million dead people
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The volte face on Ecohealth by the US Congress is a bit like the Cass Report. Years of weird madness - it came from the market! Ignore the bat virus lab 200 yards away!! - have come to a juddering halt

    No, those two are very different. The origin of Covid question is binary: either it leaked from a lab or not. And I think we all know it probably leaked from a lab.

    The treatment of some of the most vulnerable young people in the country is not binary. It demands understanding, nuance, and the rejection of extreme positions on all sides.
    No. The parallel is the insanity of both positions

    A novel bat coronavirus with weird signs of extra pathogenicity emerges in the one city in the world with a lab trying to make novel bat coronaviruses more pathogenic - but saying there is a link is a racist conspiracy theory!

    See also

    Men can be women just by saying they are and they should then be allowed access to women’s sports and prisons and safe spaces and it’s normal that suddenly millions of kids don’t know what gender they are for the first time in history

    Both are obviously and totally crazy; both were the official and firmly enforced consensus for years. Both have done terrible damage. One prevented us properly investigating a virus that killed 20m people; one has damaged many thousands of lives
    But that’s not remotely what the Cass report says. It’s a much better and more balanced report than that. The problem is the extremist Stonewall/Mermaids position not the fundamental need to understand and accept gender dysphoria. Whereas the origins of Covid are a factual question: a or b. More like the origins of global warming: CO2 or not.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    CatMan said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    I don’t recall you ever putting your head over the parapet before. Forgive me if I don’t applaud you now
    To be fair, TimS and I, plus a few other PB regulars were on Reddit in 2017 agreeing it was a lab leak. Some people though didn’t cotton on until 2020 where they were behind the curve and not seeing world changing things before they happened. Up your game.
    You were talking about Covid 2 years before it broke out?
    @boulay works for Ecohealth.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    rcs1000 said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @TomWitherow

    New: Post Office's top lawyer has refused to give evidence to the public inquiry and can not be compelled as she lives abroad.

    Inquiry counsel Jason Beer KC: “We're not going to hear from her, she lives abroad and won't cooperate”.

    Well, there’s only one conclusion to be drawn, isn’t there? Can this person be arrested if they set foot on British territory in the future?
    I guess Cyclefree would be the one who would know if the inquiry has a standing like court where if they summon her (the PO Lawyer not CF) and she doesn’t attend then they can issue a warrant in which case she would be arrested if she arrived in the UK.

    Failing that they could go full Shanina Begum and take away her citizenship.
    I don't think you can strip someone of their citizenship for failing to turn up at a public enquiry.
    That’s just woke rubbish.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    CatMan said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    I don’t recall you ever putting your head over the parapet before. Forgive me if I don’t applaud you now
    To be fair, TimS and I, plus a few other PB regulars were on Reddit in 2017 agreeing it was a lab leak. Some people though didn’t cotton on until 2020 where they were behind the curve and not seeing world changing things before they happened. Up your game.
    You were talking about Covid 2 years before it broke out?
    Yes, yes we were.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    edited May 17
    rcs1000 said:

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @TomWitherow

    New: Post Office's top lawyer has refused to give evidence to the public inquiry and can not be compelled as she lives abroad.

    Inquiry counsel Jason Beer KC: “We're not going to hear from her, she lives abroad and won't cooperate”.

    Well, there’s only one conclusion to be drawn, isn’t there? Can this person be arrested if they set foot on British territory in the future?
    I guess Cyclefree would be the one who would know if the inquiry has a standing like court where if they summon her (the PO Lawyer not CF) and she doesn’t attend then they can issue a warrant in which case she would be arrested if she arrived in the UK.

    Failing that they could go full Shanina Begum and take away her citizenship.
    I don't think you can strip someone of their citizenship for failing to turn up at a public enquiry.
    However it would be way more valid than what we did to Shanina Begum, where we interpreted Bangladeshi's citizenship policy to say one thing even though their Government has said - that isn't a valid interpretation...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    edited May 17
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The volte face on Ecohealth by the US Congress is a bit like the Cass Report. Years of weird madness - it came from the market! Ignore the bat virus lab 200 yards away!! - have come to a juddering halt

    No, those two are very different. The origin of Covid question is binary: either it leaked from a lab or not. And I think we all know it probably leaked from a lab.

    The treatment of some of the most vulnerable young people in the country is not binary. It demands understanding, nuance, and the rejection of extreme positions on all sides.
    No. The parallel is the insanity of both positions

    A novel bat coronavirus with weird signs of extra pathogenicity emerges in the one city in the world with a lab trying to make novel bat coronaviruses more pathogenic - but saying there is a link is a racist conspiracy theory!

    See also

    Men can be women just by saying they are and they should then be allowed access to women’s sports and prisons and safe spaces and it’s normal that suddenly millions of kids don’t know what gender they are for the first time in history

    Both are obviously and totally crazy; both were the official and firmly enforced consensus for years. Both have done terrible damage. One prevented us properly investigating a virus that killed 20m people; one has damaged many thousands of lives
    The prevalence of transgenderism in the general population is about 0.5%, which is more or less where it's always been. The difference is the era you and I grew up in, such people were the subject of ridicule - think jokes about 'The Crying Game', Jerry Springer, etc. While the yoof of today don't give a shit. There's just as many of them about as they always were, it's just much more visible now, because times have moved on.

    Comparing people with a non-mainstream gender identity to a lab leak conspiracy is a weird, Alex Jones, "turning the friggin' frogs gay" vibe. But you do you.

    Er, what?

    I’m saying these are two examples of elite-led delusions, obvious nonsense that was enforced by cancellation and silencing of dissenters

    And I have two teenage daughters and I can assure you - as I bet many parents on here can assure you - that levels of gender confusion in teens are way off the dial compared to 5-10 years ago


  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    edited May 17

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    What taboo? People have been going on about the “Lab leak” for years!

    It’s a majority Republican committee, with one its members being Marjorie Taylor Greene, so I could barely rustle up the interest to look at what they said. But I did, and what they said doesn’t remotely prove there was a lab leak. It’s half a dozen steps from proving anything. It’s like when SeanT kept telling us how some US Committee proved UFOs exist: excitable nonsense.

    Everything else we know — where the first cases were, the genetic variation in the early cases, the environmental samples from the wet market, etc. — all demonstrate that this was a zoonotic event, like every other pandemic.
    Everyone who has suggested Lab leak, which given the genetic signature of the first cases as well as the shit security at the Wuhan labs and the long history of lab leaks including examples as recent as the foot and mouth plague, was always a perfectly rational option, was dismissed as a conspiracy theorist.

    It became a culture war battle, which is ridiculous.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    rcs1000 said:

    CatMan said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    I don’t recall you ever putting your head over the parapet before. Forgive me if I don’t applaud you now
    To be fair, TimS and I, plus a few other PB regulars were on Reddit in 2017 agreeing it was a lab leak. Some people though didn’t cotton on until 2020 where they were behind the curve and not seeing world changing things before they happened. Up your game.
    You were talking about Covid 2 years before it broke out?
    @boulay works for Ecohealth.
    It’s time to doxx myself, I’m actually not mild mannered PB commenter Boulay, but evil genius Anthony Faucci.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    What taboo? People have been going on about the “Lab leak” for years!

    It’s a majority Republican committee, with one its members being Marjorie Taylor Greene, so I could barely rustle up the interest to look at what they said. But I did, and what they said doesn’t remotely prove there was a lab leak. It’s half a dozen steps from proving anything. It’s like when SeanT kept telling us how some US Committee proved UFOs exist: excitable nonsense.

    Everything else we know — where the first cases were, the genetic variation in the early cases, the environmental samples from the wet market, etc. — all demonstrate that this was a zoonotic event, like every other pandemic.
    Everyone who has suggested Lab leak, which given the genetic signature of the first cases as well as the shit security at the Wuhan labs and the long history of lab leaks including examples as recent as the foot and mouth plague, was always a perfectly rational option, was dismissed as a conspiracy theorist.

    It became a culture war battle, which is ridiculous.
    Not only that - “lab leak” was officially silenced on Twitter and Facebook for a year. You literally weren’t allowed to mention it and if you did your comments were deleted and if you persisted you could get banned

    Utterly extraordinary, looking back
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    What taboo? People have been going on about the “Lab leak” for years!

    It’s a majority Republican committee, with one its members being Marjorie Taylor Greene, so I could barely rustle up the interest to look at what they said. But I did, and what they said doesn’t remotely prove there was a lab leak. It’s half a dozen steps from proving anything. It’s like when SeanT kept telling us how some US Committee proved UFOs exist: excitable nonsense.

    Everything else we know — where the first cases were, the genetic variation in the early cases, the environmental samples from the wet market, etc. — all demonstrate that this was a zoonotic event, like every other pandemic.
    Everyone who has suggested Lab leak, which given the genetic signature of the first cases as well as the shit security at the Wuhan labs and the long history of lab leaks including examples as recent as the foot and mouth plague, was always a perfectly rational option, was dismissed as a conspiracy theorist.

    It became a culture war battle, which is ridiculous.
    Not only that - “lab leak” was officially silenced on Twitter and Facebook for a year. You literally weren’t allowed to mention it and if you did your comments were deleted and if you persisted you could get banned

    Utterly extraordinary, looking back
    One day we will look back at it as the last golden moment of US/China cooperation.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    What taboo? People have been going on about the “Lab leak” for years!

    It’s a majority Republican committee, with one its members being Marjorie Taylor Greene, so I could barely rustle up the interest to look at what they said. But I did, and what they said doesn’t remotely prove there was a lab leak. It’s half a dozen steps from proving anything. It’s like when SeanT kept telling us how some US Committee proved UFOs exist: excitable nonsense.

    Everything else we know — where the first cases were, the genetic variation in the early cases, the environmental samples from the wet market, etc. — all demonstrate that this was a zoonotic event, like every other pandemic.
    You’re behind the times. Virologists are now so panicked they’ve switched to saying “oh well if it came from an animal in the lab that’s still technically a natural origin and zoonosis so we’re good”

    **BREAKING***

    Virologist Susan Weiss asserts that if COVID-19 came from a lab worker being infected w/ SARS-CoV-2, this would not be a "lab leak" but rather a zoonotic origin (because it would be a jump from a non-human to a human)

    https://x.com/bryce_nickels/status/1790482557131489610?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It would be comical - if it weren’t for the 20 million dead people
    As I've repeated ad nauseum, "lab leak" covers a ridiculously broad range of scenarios, with varying degrees of culpability.

    And people choose to interpret those words very differently.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited May 17
    ...
    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The volte face on Ecohealth by the US Congress is a bit like the Cass Report. Years of weird madness - it came from the market! Ignore the bat virus lab 200 yards away!! - have come to a juddering halt

    No, those two are very different. The origin of Covid question is binary: either it leaked from a lab or not. And I think we all know it probably leaked from a lab.

    The treatment of some of the most vulnerable young people in the country is not binary. It demands understanding, nuance, and the rejection of extreme positions on all sides.
    No. The parallel is the insanity of both positions

    A novel bat coronavirus with weird signs of extra pathogenicity emerges in the one city in the world with a lab trying to make novel bat coronaviruses more pathogenic - but saying there is a link is a racist conspiracy theory!

    See also

    Men can be women just by saying they are and they should then be allowed access to women’s sports and prisons and safe spaces and it’s normal that suddenly millions of kids don’t know what gender they are for the first time in history

    Both are obviously and totally crazy; both were the official and firmly enforced consensus for years. Both have done terrible damage. One prevented us properly investigating a virus that killed 20m people; one has damaged many thousands of lives
    The prevalence of transgenderism in the general population is about 0.5%, which is more or less where it's always been. The difference is the era you and I grew up in, such people were the subject of ridicule - think jokes about 'The Crying Game', Jerry Springer, etc. While the yoof of today don't give a shit. There's just as many of them about as they always were, it's just much more visible now, because times have moved on.

    Comparing people with a non-mainstream gender identity to a lab leak conspiracy is a weird, Alex Jones, "turning the friggin' frogs gay" vibe. But you do you.

    Er, what?

    I’m saying these are two examples of elite-led delusions, obvious nonsense that was enforced by cancellation and silencing of dissenters

    And I have two teenage daughters and I can assure you - as I bet many parents on here can assure you - that levels of gender confusion in teens are way off the dial compared to 5-10 years ago


    We had elite- led self cancellation.on PB.

    Remember when Eadric and SeanT. shacked up together in their hidey hole in Wales. No mention of lab leaks then, just soiled underwear.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,081
    boulay said:

    CatMan said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    I don’t recall you ever putting your head over the parapet before. Forgive me if I don’t applaud you now
    To be fair, TimS and I, plus a few other PB regulars were on Reddit in 2017 agreeing it was a lab leak. Some people though didn’t cotton on until 2020 where they were behind the curve and not seeing world changing things before they happened. Up your game.
    You were talking about Covid 2 years before it broke out?
    Yes, yes we were.
    It is a little known fact that the space-time continuum bends around PB, as we talk about subjects so often the fabric of space has to extend back into the past to accommodate it. This means that @Leon started posting about being an alpha male in about 30BC. 😀
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The volte face on Ecohealth by the US Congress is a bit like the Cass Report. Years of weird madness - it came from the market! Ignore the bat virus lab 200 yards away!! - have come to a juddering halt

    No, those two are very different. The origin of Covid question is binary: either it leaked from a lab or not. And I think we all know it probably leaked from a lab.

    The treatment of some of the most vulnerable young people in the country is not binary. It demands understanding, nuance, and the rejection of extreme positions on all sides.
    No. The parallel is the insanity of both positions

    A novel bat coronavirus with weird signs of extra pathogenicity emerges in the one city in the world with a lab trying to make novel bat coronaviruses more pathogenic - but saying there is a link is a racist conspiracy theory!

    See also

    Men can be women just by saying they are and they should then be allowed access to women’s sports and prisons and safe spaces and it’s normal that suddenly millions of kids don’t know what gender they are for the first time in history

    Both are obviously and totally crazy; both were the official and firmly enforced consensus for years. Both have done terrible damage. One prevented us properly investigating a virus that killed 20m people; one has damaged many thousands of lives
    The prevalence of transgenderism in the general population is about 0.5%, which is more or less where it's always been. The difference is the era you and I grew up in, such people were the subject of ridicule - think jokes about 'The Crying Game', Jerry Springer, etc. While the yoof of today don't give a shit. There's just as many of them about as they always were, it's just much more visible now, because times have moved on.

    Comparing people with a non-mainstream gender identity to a lab leak conspiracy is a weird, Alex Jones, "turning the friggin' frogs gay" vibe. But you do you.

    Er, what?

    I’m saying these are two examples of elite-led delusions, obvious nonsense that was enforced by cancellation and silencing of dissenters

    And I have two teenage daughters and I can assure you - as I bet many parents on here can assure you - that levels of gender confusion in teens are way off the dial compared to 5-10 years ago


    You're applying western standards there. A bit like the debate on 'posh'. Think globally.

    Look at the number of hijras in India for example. There's good, long standing evidence from multiple cultures across the world that about 0.5% of the population feels aligned to gender norms that don't match the sex they were born into. That manifests in a variety of ways depending on cultural norms, e.g the 'traditional' effeminate homosexual to the closeted, married cross-dresser. The cultural norm in the 21st century, the generation younger than us, is that it's ok - hence more of them are visible these days.

    I don't think there's any "elite led delusion" at play here, indeed "elite led delusion" is a hop, skip and a jump away from "they're putting estrogen in the water to turn the frogs gay" conspiracy theory territory, which is why I referenced Alex Jones.

    As far as cancellation goes, 26% of trans people are involved in sex work and the average trans person earns under £11k a year, so I assume their status as a protected member of the elite class is really working out for them.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    edited May 17
    Grid mix news, given this came up earlier.

    We’re currently generating only 1gw of wind power, and 0.7gw of solar. Lowest wind for nearly a year I think. Extremely slack pressure gradient, typical of early summer.

    The good news is total demand is only 28gw and gas is providing a relatively small 14gw. The rest is nuclear plus some French imports (ie nuclear). And a bit of hydro and biomass. No coal.

    So even when the grid is as non-renewable as it’s possible to be these days, thanks to the gas transition and massive energy efficiency gains in recent years it’s still way less carbon intensive than it used to be.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,081
    Spectator cartoon involving a Dalek. The tag line is "I'm here to defect".

    https://x.com/SpecCartoons/status/1791449141215723934#m
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    What taboo? People have been going on about the “Lab leak” for years!

    It’s a majority Republican committee, with one its members being Marjorie Taylor Greene, so I could barely rustle up the interest to look at what they said. But I did, and what they said doesn’t remotely prove there was a lab leak. It’s half a dozen steps from proving anything. It’s like when SeanT kept telling us how some US Committee proved UFOs exist: excitable nonsense.

    Everything else we know — where the first cases were, the genetic variation in the early cases, the environmental samples from the wet market, etc. — all demonstrate that this was a zoonotic event, like every other pandemic.
    Everyone who has suggested Lab leak, which given the genetic signature of the first cases as well as the shit security at the Wuhan labs and the long history of lab leaks including examples as recent as the foot and mouth plague, was always a perfectly rational option, was dismissed as a conspiracy theorist.

    It became a culture war battle, which is ridiculous.
    Not only that - “lab leak” was officially silenced on Twitter and Facebook for a year. You literally weren’t allowed to mention it and if you did your comments were deleted and if you persisted you could get banned

    Utterly extraordinary, looking back
    One day we will look back at it as the last golden moment of US/China cooperation.
    They cooperated for good reason. It suited both. America paid for this research, China hosted it

    Neither side wanted to face the hideous possibly they accidentally leaked it and killed 20 million

    The scientists are on record saying this in FOIA’d emails!


    Edinburgh university’s Andrew Rambaut: “Given the shitshow that would happen if anyone serious accused the Chinese of even accidental release, my feeling is we should say that given there is no evidence of a specifically engineered virus, we cannot possibly distinguish between natural evolution and escape so we are content with ascribing it to natural processes,”

    https://x.com/biorealism/status/1679232678271520768?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    In other words, Fuck, it probably came from the lab, but that’s gonna annoy China and cause chaos, let’s just say we dunno and as we dunno it’s probably the market kthxbye
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    edited May 17
    For some, Anthony Fauci seems to play the same role that Emmanuel Goldstein did in a well-known book.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,081
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The volte face on Ecohealth by the US Congress is a bit like the Cass Report. Years of weird madness - it came from the market! Ignore the bat virus lab 200 yards away!! - have come to a juddering halt

    No, those two are very different. The origin of Covid question is binary: either it leaked from a lab or not. And I think we all know it probably leaked from a lab.

    The treatment of some of the most vulnerable young people in the country is not binary. It demands understanding, nuance, and the rejection of extreme positions on all sides.
    No. The parallel is the insanity of both positions

    A novel bat coronavirus with weird signs of extra pathogenicity emerges in the one city in the world with a lab trying to make novel bat coronaviruses more pathogenic - but saying there is a link is a racist conspiracy theory!

    See also

    Men can be women just by saying they are and they should then be allowed access to women’s sports and prisons and safe spaces and it’s normal that suddenly millions of kids don’t know what gender they are for the first time in history

    Both are obviously and totally crazy; both were the official and firmly enforced consensus for years. Both have done terrible damage. One prevented us properly investigating a virus that killed 20m people; one has damaged many thousands of lives
    The prevalence of transgenderism in the general population is about 0.5%, which is more or less where it's always been. The difference is the era you and I grew up in, such people were the subject of ridicule - think jokes about 'The Crying Game', Jerry Springer, etc. While the yoof of today don't give a shit. There's just as many of them about as they always were, it's just much more visible now, because times have moved on.

    Comparing people with a non-mainstream gender identity to a lab leak conspiracy is a weird, Alex Jones, "turning the friggin' frogs gay" vibe. But you do you.

    Er, what?

    I’m saying these are two examples of elite-led delusions, obvious nonsense that was enforced by cancellation and silencing of dissenters

    And I have two teenage daughters and I can assure you - as I bet many parents on here can assure you - that levels of gender confusion in teens are way off the dial compared to 5-10 years ago


    You're applying western standards there. A bit like the debate on 'posh'. Think globally.

    Look at the number of hijras in India for example. There's good, long standing evidence from multiple cultures across the world that about 0.5% of the population feels aligned to gender norms that don't match the sex they were born into. That manifests in a variety of ways depending on cultural norms, e.g the 'traditional' effeminate homosexual to the closeted, married cross-dresser. The cultural norm in the 21st century, the generation younger than us, is that it's ok - hence more of them are visible these days.

    I don't think there's any "elite led delusion" at play here, indeed "elite led delusion" is a hop, skip and a jump away from "they're putting estrogen in the water to turn the frogs gay" conspiracy theory territory, which is why I referenced Alex Jones.

    As far as cancellation goes, 26% of trans people are involved in sex work and the average trans person earns under £11k a year, so I assume their status as a protected member of the elite class is really working out for them.

    There's a website that lists individual trans people thru history and gives a potted biog for each one. It's not well indexed but does have an attempt at a timeline. The link is here

    https://zagria.blogspot.com/p/usa-canada-germanyaustriaswitzerland.html

    (Warning: can be time sink)

  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    eek said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Fuck landlords! That’s convinced me to vote Labour.
    'Rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city — except for bombing,'
    Exactly as I predicted in a thread a few days ago. I *despise* landlords, but all this means is more pain for tenants. Simple supply and demand.

    And before anyone comes back with the "good, more people can own their own place" argument, that's not much comfort to those who are geograpically mobile, or unable to afford their own place or a deposit to save up for one.
    We have already seen that rent controls don't work - look at Scotland.

    Problem is the only fix is to build x million new homes and as I pointed out on Twitter in a chat with Dave Herdson earlier - we only just about have the capacity to build the houses we currently build we definitely don't have the skillset to increase that by 10% let alone the 150-200% we require...

    And if we want lower rents - we need an awful lot of houses built...
    The barrier to housing construction isn't labour, its planning controls.

    Japan is a country with a much tighter labour market than us and they manage more housing builds than we do. Because planning isn't a problem there.

    Fix the problem, houses will be built. Whinging about labour is just an excuse by NIMBYs who don't want the real problem fixed.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    You know when you get one of those d’oh moments and wonder why you’d never clocked before?

    Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Obviously an Irish name now I think about it. But I’d never noticed: Conan - Irish. Doyle - Irish.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    TimS said:

    You know when you get one of those d’oh moments and wonder why you’d never clocked before?

    Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Obviously an Irish name now I think about it. But I’d never noticed: Conan - Irish. Doyle - Irish.

    Still not as Irish as Joe Biden.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,081
    TimS said:

    You know when you get one of those d’oh moments and wonder why you’d never clocked before?

    Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Obviously an Irish name now I think about it. But I’d never noticed: Conan - Irish. Doyle - Irish.

    Humour me please. I assume "Doyle" is an Irish surname because of Father Ted. But why is "Conan" Irish? Is this a thing?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Almost no wind power being generated today.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

    And solar will be looking pretty grim by midnight.
    Why the sarcastic reply?
    Coz I think solar is a waste of time in the UK.

    I was not intending anything against you, so apologies if it came across that way.
    5% of our total generation last year, so it's some way from irrelevant.
    It must have the worst return on energy generated per billion spent.
    Remember when you and I were virtually the only people on PB willing to say “er, it quite likely came from the lab? The bat virus lab just down the road from the bat virus outbreak?”

    Now read this:

    “EcoHealth Alliance and Dr. Peter Daszak should never again receive a single penny from the U.S. taxpayer. Only two weeks after the Select Subcommittee released an extensive report detailing EcoHealth’s wrongdoing and recommending the formal debarment of EcoHealth and its president, HHS has begun efforts to cut off all U.S. funding to this corrupt organization. EcoHealth facilitated gain-of-function research in Wuhan, China without proper oversight, willingly violated multiple requirements of its multimillion-dollar National Institutes of Health grant, and apparently made false statements to the NIH. These actions are wholly abhorrent, indefensible, and must be addressed with swift action. EcoHealth’s immediate funding suspension and future debarment is not only a victory for the U.S. taxpayer, but also for American national security and the safety of citizens worldwide"
    - Chairman Wenstrup, Committee on Oversight and Accountability - COVID-19.

    https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1790848520921981004?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Indeed. Yet there's still some die hards even on here who want to cling to the idea that they weren't being lied to by the "good" side and the "bad" team were right about it all.

    We had a uni mates reunion a couple of weekends ago that I was graciously allowed to attend for a few hours by my wife juggling a relative newborn and a toddler. The subject came up (unsurprising given that we all studied chemistry, biochemistry and/or medicine) and the consensus around the room was unanimous that it was a lab leak and that it was likely covered up by the Americans because senior people in their health regulatory infrastructure were implicated. They all work in research and know how easy it is for political pressure to change decisions by journals.
    Quite so, quite so. And for a long time it was just you and me willing to say this on PB. And sometimes @Gardenwalker as well

    Pitiful

    Anyway we now need a reckoning. Science itself needs to be severely scrutinised - from the labs to the journals
    Yes agreed, the corruption of science by political operators in healthcare regulation was awful and there does now need to be some measures put in place to insulate science from politicians who were more worried about their dirty dealings with WIV than stopping the virus from spreading.
    Wenstrup believes Trump won the 2020 election.
    It’s a bipartisan committee investigating Covid origins. Equal Dems and Reps. See here

    https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/select-subcommittee-on-the-coronavirus-pandemic/

    And this is their conclusion on Ecohealth, who ran the gain of function bat coronovirus virology for Fauci at Wuhan

    🚨BREAKING🚨

    Today, based on evidence uncovered in @COVIDSelect's recent report, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services commenced formal debarment proceedings against EcoHealth Alliance.

    EcoHealth will now face an immediate, government-wide suspension of taxpayer funds — including a hold on all active grants.

    https://x.com/covidselect/status/1790762368898654308?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Its over. All the years of lies and gaslighting are over. It’s done
    No doubt we’ll never get the full facts, given it happened in China, but at least the ridiculous taboo on Lab leak is now lifted.
    What taboo? People have been going on about the “Lab leak” for years!

    It’s a majority Republican committee, with one its members being Marjorie Taylor Greene, so I could barely rustle up the interest to look at what they said. But I did, and what they said doesn’t remotely prove there was a lab leak. It’s half a dozen steps from proving anything. It’s like when SeanT kept telling us how some US Committee proved UFOs exist: excitable nonsense.

    Everything else we know — where the first cases were, the genetic variation in the early cases, the environmental samples from the wet market, etc. — all demonstrate that this was a zoonotic event, like every other pandemic.
    Everyone who has suggested Lab leak, which given the genetic signature of the first cases as well as the shit security at the Wuhan labs and the long history of lab leaks including examples as recent as the foot and mouth plague, was always a perfectly rational option, was dismissed as a conspiracy theorist.

    It became a culture war battle, which is ridiculous.
    Not only that - “lab leak” was officially silenced on Twitter and Facebook for a year. You literally weren’t allowed to mention it and if you did your comments were deleted and if you persisted you could get banned

    Utterly extraordinary, looking back
    One day we will look back at it as the last golden moment of US/China cooperation.
    They cooperated for good reason. It suited both. America paid for this research, China hosted it

    Neither side wanted to face the hideous possibly they accidentally leaked it and killed 20 million

    The scientists are on record saying this in FOIA’d emails!


    Edinburgh university’s Andrew Rambaut: “Given the shitshow that would happen if anyone serious accused the Chinese of even accidental release, my feeling is we should say that given there is no evidence of a specifically engineered virus, we cannot possibly distinguish between natural evolution and escape so we are content with ascribing it to natural processes,”

    https://x.com/biorealism/status/1679232678271520768?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    In other words, Fuck, it probably came from the lab, but that’s gonna annoy China and cause chaos, let’s just say we dunno and as we dunno it’s probably the market kthxbye
    I must admit, I really struggle with all these arguments.

    Yes, it probably came - accidentally - from a lab.

    Yes, scientists should not have been scared of admitting this.

    And yes, Facebook/Twitter should not have shut down discussion.

    But... so what? If people had been more honest (or perhaps I should say brave), it would have been great, but it wouldn't have saved a single life.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    viewcode said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The volte face on Ecohealth by the US Congress is a bit like the Cass Report. Years of weird madness - it came from the market! Ignore the bat virus lab 200 yards away!! - have come to a juddering halt

    No, those two are very different. The origin of Covid question is binary: either it leaked from a lab or not. And I think we all know it probably leaked from a lab.

    The treatment of some of the most vulnerable young people in the country is not binary. It demands understanding, nuance, and the rejection of extreme positions on all sides.
    No. The parallel is the insanity of both positions

    A novel bat coronavirus with weird signs of extra pathogenicity emerges in the one city in the world with a lab trying to make novel bat coronaviruses more pathogenic - but saying there is a link is a racist conspiracy theory!

    See also

    Men can be women just by saying they are and they should then be allowed access to women’s sports and prisons and safe spaces and it’s normal that suddenly millions of kids don’t know what gender they are for the first time in history

    Both are obviously and totally crazy; both were the official and firmly enforced consensus for years. Both have done terrible damage. One prevented us properly investigating a virus that killed 20m people; one has damaged many thousands of lives
    The prevalence of transgenderism in the general population is about 0.5%, which is more or less where it's always been. The difference is the era you and I grew up in, such people were the subject of ridicule - think jokes about 'The Crying Game', Jerry Springer, etc. While the yoof of today don't give a shit. There's just as many of them about as they always were, it's just much more visible now, because times have moved on.

    Comparing people with a non-mainstream gender identity to a lab leak conspiracy is a weird, Alex Jones, "turning the friggin' frogs gay" vibe. But you do you.

    Er, what?

    I’m saying these are two examples of elite-led delusions, obvious nonsense that was enforced by cancellation and silencing of dissenters

    And I have two teenage daughters and I can assure you - as I bet many parents on here can assure you - that levels of gender confusion in teens are way off the dial compared to 5-10 years ago


    You're applying western standards there. A bit like the debate on 'posh'. Think globally.

    Look at the number of hijras in India for example. There's good, long standing evidence from multiple cultures across the world that about 0.5% of the population feels aligned to gender norms that don't match the sex they were born into. That manifests in a variety of ways depending on cultural norms, e.g the 'traditional' effeminate homosexual to the closeted, married cross-dresser. The cultural norm in the 21st century, the generation younger than us, is that it's ok - hence more of them are visible these days.

    I don't think there's any "elite led delusion" at play here, indeed "elite led delusion" is a hop, skip and a jump away from "they're putting estrogen in the water to turn the frogs gay" conspiracy theory territory, which is why I referenced Alex Jones.

    As far as cancellation goes, 26% of trans people are involved in sex work and the average trans person earns under £11k a year, so I assume their status as a protected member of the elite class is really working out for them.

    There's a website that lists individual trans people thru history and gives a potted biog for each one. It's not well indexed but does have an attempt at a timeline. The link is here

    https://zagria.blogspot.com/p/usa-canada-germanyaustriaswitzerland.html

    (Warning: can be time sink)

    Great link, thanks.

  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,324
    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    You know when you get one of those d’oh moments and wonder why you’d never clocked before?

    Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Obviously an Irish name now I think about it. But I’d never noticed: Conan - Irish. Doyle - Irish.

    Humour me please. I assume "Doyle" is an Irish surname because of Father Ted. But why is "Conan" Irish? Is this a thing?
    Conans are Barbarians, no?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    edited May 17

    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    You know when you get one of those d’oh moments and wonder why you’d never clocked before?

    Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Obviously an Irish name now I think about it. But I’d never noticed: Conan - Irish. Doyle - Irish.

    Humour me please. I assume "Doyle" is an Irish surname because of Father Ted. But why is "Conan" Irish? Is this a thing?
    Conans are Barbarians, no?
    It means rabbit in Gaelic apparently (like coney I suppose). Common in Scotland and Ireland.

    https://www.libraryireland.com/names/men/conan-conan.php
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,081
    Just as the French bemoan the fact that their best contribution to the lexicon in the last century was the word "chauffeur" (if you don't count "Vichy" 😀 ), I think it's a bit sad that the best British contribution is the acronym NIMBY.

    Or is there a better one I'm missing?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,081
    TimS said:

    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    You know when you get one of those d’oh moments and wonder why you’d never clocked before?

    Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Obviously an Irish name now I think about it. But I’d never noticed: Conan - Irish. Doyle - Irish.

    Humour me please. I assume "Doyle" is an Irish surname because of Father Ted. But why is "Conan" Irish? Is this a thing?
    Conans are Barbarians, no?
    It means rabbit in Gaelic apparently (like coney I suppose). Common in Scotland and Ireland.

    https://www.libraryireland.com/names/men/conan-conan.php
    Thank you.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    eek said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Fuck landlords! That’s convinced me to vote Labour.
    'Rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city — except for bombing,'
    Exactly as I predicted in a thread a few days ago. I *despise* landlords, but all this means is more pain for tenants. Simple supply and demand.

    And before anyone comes back with the "good, more people can own their own place" argument, that's not much comfort to those who are geograpically mobile, or unable to afford their own place or a deposit to save up for one.
    We have already seen that rent controls don't work - look at Scotland.

    Problem is the only fix is to build x million new homes and as I pointed out on Twitter in a chat with Dave Herdson earlier - we only just about have the capacity to build the houses we currently build we definitely don't have the skillset to increase that by 10% let alone the 150-200% we require...

    And if we want lower rents - we need an awful lot of houses built...
    The barrier to housing construction isn't labour, its planning controls.

    Japan is a country with a much tighter labour market than us and they manage more housing builds than we do. Because planning isn't a problem there.

    Fix the problem, houses will be built. Whinging about labour is just an excuse by NIMBYs who don't want the real problem fixed.
    While I completely agree that we should loosen up planning, I think you do need to accept that Japanese* homes are almost entirely made of wood, have limited lives, and are much quicker/cheaper to build.

    So, I don't think you can simply extrapolate the number of Japanese housing starts to the UK.

    * Like American ones
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Fuck landlords! That’s convinced me to vote Labour.
    'Rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city — except for bombing,'
    Exactly as I predicted in a thread a few days ago. I *despise* landlords, but all this means is more pain for tenants. Simple supply and demand.

    And before anyone comes back with the "good, more people can own their own place" argument, that's not much comfort to those who are geograpically mobile, or unable to afford their own place or a deposit to save up for one.
    We have already seen that rent controls don't work - look at Scotland.

    Problem is the only fix is to build x million new homes and as I pointed out on Twitter in a chat with Dave Herdson earlier - we only just about have the capacity to build the houses we currently build we definitely don't have the skillset to increase that by 10% let alone the 150-200% we require...

    And if we want lower rents - we need an awful lot of houses built...
    The barrier to housing construction isn't labour, its planning controls.

    Japan is a country with a much tighter labour market than us and they manage more housing builds than we do. Because planning isn't a problem there.

    Fix the problem, houses will be built. Whinging about labour is just an excuse by NIMBYs who don't want the real problem fixed.
    While I completely agree that we should loosen up planning, I think you do need to accept that Japanese* homes are almost entirely made of wood, have limited lives, and are much quicker/cheaper to build.

    So, I don't think you can simply extrapolate the number of Japanese housing starts to the UK.

    * Like American ones
    Question.

    Why do we not build more houses out of wood?

    It's hard to argue they would be less long-lasting than the rubbish currently being built. Insulation means they could be as warm. It would be both cheaper and quicker.

    So what's the reason?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    TimS said:

    So Matt Goodwin's firm have published the following poll

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+2)
    CON: 20% (+1)
    RFM: 14% (=)
    LDM: 9% (=)
    GRN: 8% (=)
    SNP: 0% (-4)

    But his figures are bollocks

    lmao Goodwin's published headline figures based on an obviously error-strewn data table:

    Here's the data without adjustments. Looks clear to me that the table the headline figures are drawn from, once undecideds and likelihood to vote are factored in, is missing a row of data - the SNP figures should be Plaid's, Plaid's should be in the 'some other party' row.

    The error with the table is the rows from SNP down. Hard to know exactly what the problem is (many ways to build a set of tabs), but the SNP data isn't being pulled through and the code is skipping over to the Plaid data (then back round to the unweighted sample at the bottom).

    I find this very funny, but it's also very annoying. Casts a poor light on the industry that an outfit that can't check a three-page set of tables properly is publishing polls with BPC membership attached to them.



    https://x.com/markmcgeoghegan/status/1791476732807057507

    Has he Goodwinned the BPC?
    Can we perhaps have a PB rules exception for Peoplepolling?

    Last night it was decreed that the c bomb could be dropped for humanitarian reasons in relation to a small number of individuals.

    So the rule that one must not cast aspersions on the professionalism of members of the BPF could perhaps we waived for Mr Goodwin
    I believe a similar waiver was launched for the citation of Scottish subsampling, once a capital crime on here. My understanding is that it is now acceptable, provided a klaxon is sounded ahead of the subsample?
    The rule is that you make it clear that it is a sub sample.

    What is not permitted is passing off a Scottish subsample as a full blown Scottish poll.
    Channelling @Sunil_Prasannan

    Did you hear about the Glasgow-born psephologist with two Krakovian parents who got caught in a windstorm?

    He was a…
    Did you hear about the scarecrow who became obsessed with Straw Polls?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497

    Carnyx said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Paywalled. Does she say, please, if (a) it's optional and (b) who decides? The council?

    Labour’s shadow chancellor has opened the door to rent caps, arguing they could be beneficial if brought in for local areas.

    Rachel Reeves insisted she was against a “blanket approach”, but said there may be a “case” for rent controls on a local level.

    In an interview with BBC Radio Essex, she suggested councils should get a say on whether to bring in new restrictions, arguing that it “should be up to local areas to decide”.

    Ms Reeves was speaking after a Labour-commissioned report found that rents should be capped for tenants who could not afford rising costs.
    The rationale behind this is not complicated. In a significant housing shortage both rent controls and its opposite, no rent controls, are intolerable policies. So the trick is to transfer the decision to the local level where someone else decides it and takes the political heat. Simple.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Fuck landlords! That’s convinced me to vote Labour.
    'Rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city — except for bombing,'
    Exactly as I predicted in a thread a few days ago. I *despise* landlords, but all this means is more pain for tenants. Simple supply and demand.

    And before anyone comes back with the "good, more people can own their own place" argument, that's not much comfort to those who are geograpically mobile, or unable to afford their own place or a deposit to save up for one.
    We have already seen that rent controls don't work - look at Scotland.

    Problem is the only fix is to build x million new homes and as I pointed out on Twitter in a chat with Dave Herdson earlier - we only just about have the capacity to build the houses we currently build we definitely don't have the skillset to increase that by 10% let alone the 150-200% we require...

    And if we want lower rents - we need an awful lot of houses built...
    The barrier to housing construction isn't labour, its planning controls.

    Japan is a country with a much tighter labour market than us and they manage more housing builds than we do. Because planning isn't a problem there.

    Fix the problem, houses will be built. Whinging about labour is just an excuse by NIMBYs who don't want the real problem fixed.
    While I completely agree that we should loosen up planning, I think you do need to accept that Japanese* homes are almost entirely made of wood, have limited lives, and are much quicker/cheaper to build.

    So, I don't think you can simply extrapolate the number of Japanese housing starts to the UK.

    * Like American ones
    Question.

    Why do we not build more houses out of wood?

    It's hard to argue they would be less long-lasting than the rubbish currently being built. Insulation means they could be as warm. It would be both cheaper and quicker.

    So what's the reason?
    People won't buy them.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Fuck landlords! That’s convinced me to vote Labour.
    'Rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city — except for bombing,'
    Exactly as I predicted in a thread a few days ago. I *despise* landlords, but all this means is more pain for tenants. Simple supply and demand.

    And before anyone comes back with the "good, more people can own their own place" argument, that's not much comfort to those who are geograpically mobile, or unable to afford their own place or a deposit to save up for one.
    We have already seen that rent controls don't work - look at Scotland.

    Problem is the only fix is to build x million new homes and as I pointed out on Twitter in a chat with Dave Herdson earlier - we only just about have the capacity to build the houses we currently build we definitely don't have the skillset to increase that by 10% let alone the 150-200% we require...

    And if we want lower rents - we need an awful lot of houses built...
    The barrier to housing construction isn't labour, its planning controls.

    Japan is a country with a much tighter labour market than us and they manage more housing builds than we do. Because planning isn't a problem there.

    Fix the problem, houses will be built. Whinging about labour is just an excuse by NIMBYs who don't want the real problem fixed.
    While I completely agree that we should loosen up planning, I think you do need to accept that Japanese* homes are almost entirely made of wood, have limited lives, and are much quicker/cheaper to build.

    So, I don't think you can simply extrapolate the number of Japanese housing starts to the UK.

    * Like American ones
    Get rid of the planning premium on land and people can quicker throw up wooden homes here too. Cheaper land and cheaper build, win/win.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    ...
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Fuck landlords! That’s convinced me to vote Labour.
    'Rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city — except for bombing,'
    Exactly as I predicted in a thread a few days ago. I *despise* landlords, but all this means is more pain for tenants. Simple supply and demand.

    And before anyone comes back with the "good, more people can own their own place" argument, that's not much comfort to those who are geograpically mobile, or unable to afford their own place or a deposit to save up for one.
    We have already seen that rent controls don't work - look at Scotland.

    Problem is the only fix is to build x million new homes and as I pointed out on Twitter in a chat with Dave Herdson earlier - we only just about have the capacity to build the houses we currently build we definitely don't have the skillset to increase that by 10% let alone the 150-200% we require...

    And if we want lower rents - we need an awful lot of houses built...
    The barrier to housing construction isn't labour, its planning controls.

    Japan is a country with a much tighter labour market than us and they manage more housing builds than we do. Because planning isn't a problem there.

    Fix the problem, houses will be built. Whinging about labour is just an excuse by NIMBYs who don't want the real problem fixed.
    While I completely agree that we should loosen up planning, I think you do need to accept that Japanese* homes are almost entirely made of wood, have limited lives, and are much quicker/cheaper to build.

    So, I don't think you can simply extrapolate the number of Japanese housing starts to the UK.

    * Like American ones
    Question.

    Why do we not build more houses out of wood?

    It's hard to argue they would be less long-lasting than the rubbish currently being built. Insulation means they could be as warm. It would be both cheaper and quicker.

    So what's the reason?
    Grenfell

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-04-19/low-carbon-wood-building-designs-face-fire-safety-doubts-in-uk
  • ManchesterKurtManchesterKurt Posts: 921
    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Paywalled. Does she say, please, if (a) it's optional and (b) who decides? The council?

    Labour’s shadow chancellor has opened the door to rent caps, arguing they could be beneficial if brought in for local areas.

    Rachel Reeves insisted she was against a “blanket approach”, but said there may be a “case” for rent controls on a local level.

    In an interview with BBC Radio Essex, she suggested councils should get a say on whether to bring in new restrictions, arguing that it “should be up to local areas to decide”.

    Ms Reeves was speaking after a Labour-commissioned report found that rents should be capped for tenants who could not afford rising costs.
    The rationale behind this is not complicated. In a significant housing shortage both rent controls and its opposite, no rent controls, are intolerable policies. So the trick is to transfer the decision to the local level where someone else decides it and takes the political heat. Simple.
    Andy Burnham is asking for the powers to suspend right to buy whilst he builds loads of social housing to address the housing problems in Manchester.

    I quite like the idea of locally elected politicians making such decisions rather than someone hundreds of miles away.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Fuck landlords! That’s convinced me to vote Labour.
    'Rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city — except for bombing,'
    Exactly as I predicted in a thread a few days ago. I *despise* landlords, but all this means is more pain for tenants. Simple supply and demand.

    And before anyone comes back with the "good, more people can own their own place" argument, that's not much comfort to those who are geograpically mobile, or unable to afford their own place or a deposit to save up for one.
    We have already seen that rent controls don't work - look at Scotland.

    Problem is the only fix is to build x million new homes and as I pointed out on Twitter in a chat with Dave Herdson earlier - we only just about have the capacity to build the houses we currently build we definitely don't have the skillset to increase that by 10% let alone the 150-200% we require...

    And if we want lower rents - we need an awful lot of houses built...
    The barrier to housing construction isn't labour, its planning controls.

    Japan is a country with a much tighter labour market than us and they manage more housing builds than we do. Because planning isn't a problem there.

    Fix the problem, houses will be built. Whinging about labour is just an excuse by NIMBYs who don't want the real problem fixed.
    While I completely agree that we should loosen up planning, I think you do need to accept that Japanese* homes are almost entirely made of wood, have limited lives, and are much quicker/cheaper to build.

    So, I don't think you can simply extrapolate the number of Japanese housing starts to the UK.

    * Like American ones
    Question.

    Why do we not build more houses out of wood?

    It's hard to argue they would be less long-lasting than the rubbish currently being built. Insulation means they could be as warm. It would be both cheaper and quicker.

    So what's the reason?
    People won't buy them.
    what about rent them?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Test: What will Vanilla do to a picture of Whitby Abbey in the fog?


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    edited May 17

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Fuck landlords! That’s convinced me to vote Labour.
    'Rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city — except for bombing,'
    Exactly as I predicted in a thread a few days ago. I *despise* landlords, but all this means is more pain for tenants. Simple supply and demand.

    And before anyone comes back with the "good, more people can own their own place" argument, that's not much comfort to those who are geograpically mobile, or unable to afford their own place or a deposit to save up for one.
    We have already seen that rent controls don't work - look at Scotland.

    Problem is the only fix is to build x million new homes and as I pointed out on Twitter in a chat with Dave Herdson earlier - we only just about have the capacity to build the houses we currently build we definitely don't have the skillset to increase that by 10% let alone the 150-200% we require...

    And if we want lower rents - we need an awful lot of houses built...
    The barrier to housing construction isn't labour, its planning controls.

    Japan is a country with a much tighter labour market than us and they manage more housing builds than we do. Because planning isn't a problem there.

    Fix the problem, houses will be built. Whinging about labour is just an excuse by NIMBYs who don't want the real problem fixed.
    While I completely agree that we should loosen up planning, I think you do need to accept that Japanese* homes are almost entirely made of wood, have limited lives, and are much quicker/cheaper to build.

    So, I don't think you can simply extrapolate the number of Japanese housing starts to the UK.

    * Like American ones
    Question.

    Why do we not build more houses out of wood?

    It's hard to argue they would be less long-lasting than the rubbish currently being built. Insulation means they could be as warm. It would be both cheaper and quicker.

    So what's the reason?
    People won't buy them.
    Can't get mortgages?

    I have some sympathy for the wooden house movement, but I must admit I did start when I read about one which used pulped newspapers or recycled wool or something for insulation between the walls. No idea whether they protect against, foir instance, clothes moths ... but IANAE.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497

    Soz, I do not have the energy to write any proper threads this afternoon.

    It's OK don't worry, we'll just carry on with our nightly Starmerhate-fest regardless.

    So Matt Goodwin's firm have published the following poll

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+2)
    CON: 20% (+1)
    RFM: 14% (=)
    LDM: 9% (=)
    GRN: 8% (=)
    SNP: 0% (-4)

    But his figures are bollocks

    lmao Goodwin's published headline figures based on an obviously error-strewn data table:

    Here's the data without adjustments. Looks clear to me that the table the headline figures are drawn from, once undecideds and likelihood to vote are factored in, is missing a row of data - the SNP figures should be Plaid's, Plaid's should be in the 'some other party' row.

    The error with the table is the rows from SNP down. Hard to know exactly what the problem is (many ways to build a set of tabs), but the SNP data isn't being pulled through and the code is skipping over to the Plaid data (then back round to the unweighted sample at the bottom).

    I find this very funny, but it's also very annoying. Casts a poor light on the industry that an outfit that can't check a three-page set of tables properly is publishing polls with BPC membership attached to them.



    https://x.com/markmcgeoghegan/status/1791476732807057507

    Can we add Goodwin to @rcs1000 's authorised "c" bomb list?
    Another question: What do we think is Goodwin's long term agenda in political and career terms?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Test: What will Vanilla do to a picture of Whitby Abbey in the fog?


    Don't forget to go to the parish church, if it's not too late. And the museum has some great stuff.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Literally worse than Hitler.

    Shadow chancellor raises possibility of rent caps under Labour

    Rachel Reeves departs from party line to say controls on letting prices might work at a local level


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/17/shadow-chancellor-raises-possibility-rent-caps-under-labour/

    Paywalled. Does she say, please, if (a) it's optional and (b) who decides? The council?

    Labour’s shadow chancellor has opened the door to rent caps, arguing they could be beneficial if brought in for local areas.

    Rachel Reeves insisted she was against a “blanket approach”, but said there may be a “case” for rent controls on a local level.

    In an interview with BBC Radio Essex, she suggested councils should get a say on whether to bring in new restrictions, arguing that it “should be up to local areas to decide”.

    Ms Reeves was speaking after a Labour-commissioned report found that rents should be capped for tenants who could not afford rising costs.
    The rationale behind this is not complicated. In a significant housing shortage both rent controls and its opposite, no rent controls, are intolerable policies. So the trick is to transfer the decision to the local level where someone else decides it and takes the political heat. Simple.
    Andy Burnham is asking for the powers to suspend right to buy whilst he builds loads of social housing to address the housing problems in Manchester.

    I quite like the idea of locally elected politicians making such decisions rather than someone hundreds of miles away.
    Be that as it may, it doesn't matter for housing supply whether council tenant X gets ownership of a house instead of a lifetime tenancy.
This discussion has been closed.