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The return of Farage – politicalbetting.com

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  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    edited May 15

    Paul Mason going for the Islington North nomination

    I believe the other declared candidate is Praful Nargund, a councillor for Barnsbury ward (which is actually just over the boundary in the Islington South constituency):
    https://www.prafulnargund.co.uk/
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    What is a lanyard and why are they important?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,262
    a
    ydoethur said:

    Apparently the man detained for shooting Fico is 71 years old.

    I think we can start to rule out the possibility of professional assassins.

    Unless Ulrich Kohl has escaped again
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    isam said:
    There are some words I stumble over. I would not be impressed by anyone who thought the less of my argument for a few extra seconds.

    Of course, if one is only concerned with presentation, rather than, say, content, or truth, or logic, or those tired old things, one might feel entirely free to sneer at someone for having a stammer, or a trip of the tongue.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    edited May 15
    algarkirk said:

    What is a lanyard and why are they important?

    The ribbon like thingy which one wears around the collar* to bear a security pass at work.

    Apparently seen as a crucial issue by HMG.

    *Edit: neck, really, but in practice outside the collar. They became a thing about 25-30 years ago in big organizations.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Carnyx said:

    isam said:
    There are some words I stumble over. I would not be impressed by anyone who thought the less of my argument for a few extra seconds.

    Of course, if one is only concerned with presentation, rather than, say, content, or truth, or logic, or those tired old things, one might feel entirely free to sneer at someone for having a stammer, or a trip of the tongue.
    Oh wonderful you!

    Of course content of character etc is more important, although Sir Keir is a dishonest sneak who devalues words such as "principle" and "integrity", but unfortunately presentation and charisma do play a part, and I think Starmer's stiff, awkward manner will be a negative for Labour during the campaign/in the debates
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,826

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1790781693135028686?s=19

    I would, but not if it looked like I was in a world that was constantly on fire and dripping in blood

    Talking of King Charles the 'postie' rang our door bell today and said she had a special delivery from Buckingham Palace and that we needed to sign for it

    It contained a personal message from Charles and Camilla, duly signed in black ink, congratulating us on our diamond wedding anniversary (60 years) for tomorrow

    The family are delighted that we received this recognition and our 12 year old granddaughter was so non plussed she just said 'no way' then promptly told everyone in her class

    We are having a family weekend here at home and lunch at a leading Llandudno Hotel on Sunday but we are so amazed how 'tempus fugit' and that we arrived at this milestone with lots of caring, humour and the love of our family of 3 children and 5 grandchildren. Additionally we reflect on the last six months of serious health problems I have had, and thank medical science and the consultants, doctors and nurses for my pacemaker to help us achieve our diamond anniversary

    I would just say that on politics I just want Sunak to call an election and let the voters decide on our next government, but personally my wife and I are grateful for so many blessings and at our age it really isn't a big deal who arrives in No 10 later this year

    I would end by saying that we have always travelled extensively, initially with the children but since 2005 worldwide from the Artic to the Antarctic and all places in between but know with our health and age issues we will not travel beyond our shores again, but we have so many memories, and my advice is always try to do your 'bucket list' as early as you can as you never know what is round the corner

    Fantastic. Us amateurs at 38 years look on in awe.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    The last 2 polls by JLPartners on Wikepedia had Lab on 41 and 42, and Reform on 13% in both, so not sure where the shift figures in the header come from.

    There would seem to be a few percent Con to Reform shift, but possibly just MOE.

    They conducted a standard VI poll at the same time. Then added the Farage leading Reform question as a supllementary.

    The changes are with that poll.
    Hard to know how you would prompt this without hitting the leading question problem. "What would your vote be if Farage became leader of Reform" is a very good way of a. putting Reform top of mind, b. implying that received wisdom is he'd do a better job for them.

    Many probably thought Farage was head of Reform anyway. It's like asking "would you prefer Rice Krispies or Cornflakes?" then "what about if the Cornflakes were fortified with vitamins and iron?" I bet you'd get a few people changing their choice simply because they were being prompted.
    No one in their right mind would prefer Rice Krispies to Corn Flakes.
    Just unnatural.
    They are both items where the difference in price between Kelloggs version and super cheap supermarket version is eye watering.

    They (or their Lidl proxy) are both essential for making chocolatey nest thingeys with mini eggs on top suitable for Easter and after.

    Agree. Cornflakes only the rest of the year.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Like Sir Keir on accepting the referendum result, and the use of the private sector in the NHS, Lammy’s rejection of Nuclear weapons was a matter of principle and conscience

    David Lammy voted against Trident in 2016, and now wants to be a pro-nuclear, pro-Nato foreign sec independent.co.uk/voices/labour-…


    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1790648817655689626?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Tories famously always sticking to their guns on great matters of principle like, say, Brexit.
    Defence reversals are an easy one. The world has changed unbelievably since that 2016 vote.

    We have no more doubts that effectively we are already at war with Russia. Might be a cold war technically but it is warming quickly.
    It wasn’t a matter of conscience and principle then. Or he doesn’t have them anymore
    Conscience and principles can change in the face of facts.

    Unilateral Nuclear Disarmament is immoral, anyway.
    I thought the point of principles was that they don’t change in the face of facts
    People with principles that are immune to facts are bad news.
    And the rest don’t have principles
    Possibly we're at cross purposes on what 'having principles' means. Maybe you could give an example of one?
    After the way you acted on our bet I am quite sure you don’t know what ‘having principles’ means
    I acted a damn sight better than you.
    I don't think so

    You slagged me off on here, saying I owed you money, when I owed you nothing, and had no right of reply as I was banned from the site

    As soon as I was unbanned I messaged you to say I wanted to void the bet and you said you were fine with that

    I didn't reply because I thought/think you were/are/had been a twat about it all, and would rather not engage, then a year or so later you start talking about the bet as if it is still on!

    It sums up the slimy toad that you are, and you still have the nerve to say I acted badly when I have agreed to wear it rather than settle halfway! Incredible

    It's worth the £300 just to have the moral high ground and know what a sly rat you are
    It's really sad to see you two bickering like this.
    If people play the snide on bets, they're entitled to be thought little of
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    isam said:

    Carnyx said:

    isam said:
    There are some words I stumble over. I would not be impressed by anyone who thought the less of my argument for a few extra seconds.

    Of course, if one is only concerned with presentation, rather than, say, content, or truth, or logic, or those tired old things, one might feel entirely free to sneer at someone for having a stammer, or a trip of the tongue.
    Oh wonderful you!

    Of course content of character etc is more important, although Sir Keir is a dishonest sneak who devalues words such as "principle" and "integrity", but unfortunately presentation and charisma do play a part, and I think Starmer's stiff, awkward manner will be a negative for Labour during the campaign/in the debates
    I refer the hon. PBer to the report posted earlier. All about the stutter and nothing else: in other words, Mr Sunak is implying that only presentation matters.

    'The same thing happened later. Starmer stuttered. The whole of the Tory side went ballistic. "This proves he's not fit to lead this country", shot a delighted Sunak. Ten seconds later he was, again unsuccessfully, trying to pivot from fratboy bully to solemn statesman.'

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Leon said:

    I just want to say that @TheScreamingEagles is enormously handsome, profoundly wise, and hung like an Arab stallion on Cialis. And @rcs1000 is like Einstein with the socio-sexual confidence of mid-season Genghis Khan

    *glances nervously, and upwards, to the left, speaks with a muffled voice, wincing as his blooded teeth fall out*

    "Did I get it right?"

    Dunno. Did you write that or is it the product of an ** tool?
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586
    edited May 15
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Apparently the man detained for shooting Fico is 71 years old.

    I think we can start to rule out the possibility of professional assassins.

    Yeah, they all have professional final salary pensions etc that will have clocked in before that.
    You jest, but check out Polar (2019) where the plot is about exactly that.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,826

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388
    edited May 15
    algarkirk said:

    What is a lanyard and why are they important?

    It's a thing that goes round your neck and Esther McVey has just (metaphorically!) hanged herself with one.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1790781693135028686?s=19

    I would, but not if it looked like I was in a world that was constantly on fire and dripping in blood

    Talking of King Charles the 'postie' rang our door bell today and said she had a special delivery from Buckingham Palace and that we needed to sign for it

    It contained a personal message from Charles and Camilla, duly signed in black ink, congratulating us on our diamond wedding anniversary (60 years) for tomorrow

    The family are delighted that we received this recognition and our 12 year old granddaughter was so non plussed she just said 'no way' then promptly told everyone in her class

    We are having a family weekend here at home and lunch at a leading Llandudno Hotel on Sunday but we are so amazed how 'tempus fugit' and that we arrived at this milestone with lots of caring, humour and the love of our family of 3 children and 5 grandchildren. Additionally we reflect on the last six months of serious health problems I have had, and thank medical science and the consultants, doctors and nurses for my pacemaker to help us achieve our diamond anniversary

    I would just say that on politics I just want Sunak to call an election and let the voters decide on our next government, but personally my wife and I are grateful for so many blessings and at our age it really isn't a big deal who arrives in No 10 later this year

    I would end by saying that we have always travelled extensively, initially with the children but since 2005 worldwide from the Artic to the Antarctic and all places in between but know with our health and age issues we will not travel beyond our shores again, but we have so many memories, and my advice is always try to do your 'bucket list' as early as you can as you never know what is round the corner

    Congratulations; Mrs C still insists on keeping the card we had for our similar celebration almost two years ago.
    It’s amazing, when one thinks about it, the changes which have taken place in those sixty years. I envy you having been to Antarctica; that’s missing from our bucket list’ but we’ve been round the world twice and seen all measure of sights.
    You and I, Big G, have seen many things, and Britain is very, very different place today, when compared with our memories.
    Again, congratulations and welcome to a very special club.
    Thanks @OldKingCole and very much agree
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,634

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    I think his cue card said "tech-bro" but his brain choked on it because he thought he was supposed to say "brother" instead of "bro".
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,826
    megasaur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Apparently the man detained for shooting Fico is 71 years old.

    I think we can start to rule out the possibility of professional assassins.

    Yeah, they all have professional final salary pensions etc that will have clocked in before that.
    You jest, but check out Polar (2019) where the plot is about exactly that.
    I just work on the premise that everyone has a better pension than me.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,433
    isam said:

    Carnyx said:

    isam said:
    There are some words I stumble over. I would not be impressed by anyone who thought the less of my argument for a few extra seconds.

    Of course, if one is only concerned with presentation, rather than, say, content, or truth, or logic, or those tired old things, one might feel entirely free to sneer at someone for having a stammer, or a trip of the tongue.
    Oh wonderful you!

    Of course content of character etc is more important, although Sir Keir is a dishonest sneak who devalues words such as "principle" and "integrity", but unfortunately presentation and charisma do play a part, and I think Starmer's stiff, awkward manner will be a negative for Labour during the campaign/in the debates
    Only if he's up against a Tory leader with more charisma than Sunak. *anyone else
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,433
    At any rate, the rough ride meted out to Elphicke upon her departure to Labour seems to have temporarily discouraged other would be defectors.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    isam said:

    Carnyx said:

    isam said:
    There are some words I stumble over. I would not be impressed by anyone who thought the less of my argument for a few extra seconds.

    Of course, if one is only concerned with presentation, rather than, say, content, or truth, or logic, or those tired old things, one might feel entirely free to sneer at someone for having a stammer, or a trip of the tongue.
    Oh wonderful you!

    Of course content of character etc is more important, although Sir Keir is a dishonest sneak who devalues words such as "principle" and "integrity", but unfortunately presentation and charisma do play a part, and I think Starmer's stiff, awkward manner will be a negative for Labour during the campaign/in the debates
    And don’t you like to tell us about it…
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,634
    https://x.com/joebiden/status/1790713878248038478

    Biden challenges Trump to a televised debate.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220
    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
    After all, our Greatest Ever Prime Minister® wasn't renowned for getting to the end of a coherent sentence, ever.

    But he Had Charisma and Delivered Brexit, so that's fine.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    How we miss this kind of kinder, gentler, politics Corbyn stans brought to the Labour Party
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Off topic. Some tentative good news: (If that’s all right with most of you.)

    In Tuesday’s New York Times I found an article, “Sickle Cell Cure Brings Mix of Anxiety and Hope”, which begins as follows:

    "WASHINGTON – This month, Kendric Cromer, a 12-year-old boy from a suburb of Washington, became the first person in the world with sickle cell disease to begin a commercially approved gene therapy that may cure the condition."

    I knew that there had been a few successful experiments, but did not realize that enough progress had been made so that there is now a (very expensive) commercial treatment available. (With enough successes, I would expect the cost to fall.)
    source$: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/17/health/sickle-cell-cure-brings-mix-of-anxiety-and-hope.html

    Sickle cell is a horrible disease, affecting about 20,000 in the US, and millions elsewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickle_cell_disease
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,826

    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
    After all, our Greatest Ever Prime Minister® wasn't renowned for getting to the end of a coherent sentence, ever.

    But he Had Charisma and Delivered Brexit, so that's fine.
    Boris was an untrustworthy lying shit (and I wasn't even married to him) but he was a funny untrustworthy lying shit. Worth a lot in my book.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    edited May 15
    boulay said:

    ydoethur said:

    Apparently the man detained for shooting Fico is 71 years old.

    I think we can start to rule out the possibility of professional assassins.

    Is there nothing old people can’t do nowadays? President of America, porn-star shagger, political assassin. I used to dread old age but I’m off to fake a US birth certificate, buy some viagra and get down the pistol range to get in shape for my seventies.
    Chump was ~ Leon's age at the time.

    Old?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,262
    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    What is a lanyard and why are they important?

    The ribbon like thingy which one wears around the collar* to bear a security pass at work.

    Apparently seen as a crucial issue by HMG.

    *Edit: neck, really, but in practice outside the collar. They became a thing about 25-30 years ago in big organizations.
    Nonesense.

    A lanyard is a sigil of the power posed by A Keeper of Access. Much as hi-viz is a sigil of those gifted with The Power of Authouritah.

    As such, it has deep and sacred meanings among the Traditional Cult Of The Clipboard.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    Let's go off topic.

    I just had an invitation to spend a day at a naturist site.

    Any experience or experiences?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    edited May 15
    algarkirk said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    The last 2 polls by JLPartners on Wikepedia had Lab on 41 and 42, and Reform on 13% in both, so not sure where the shift figures in the header come from.

    There would seem to be a few percent Con to Reform shift, but possibly just MOE.

    They conducted a standard VI poll at the same time. Then added the Farage leading Reform question as a supllementary.

    The changes are with that poll.
    Hard to know how you would prompt this without hitting the leading question problem. "What would your vote be if Farage became leader of Reform" is a very good way of a. putting Reform top of mind, b. implying that received wisdom is he'd do a better job for them.

    Many probably thought Farage was head of Reform anyway. It's like asking "would you prefer Rice Krispies or Cornflakes?" then "what about if the Cornflakes were fortified with vitamins and iron?" I bet you'd get a few people changing their choice simply because they were being prompted.
    No one in their right mind would prefer Rice Krispies to Corn Flakes.
    Just unnatural.
    They are both items where the difference in price between Kelloggs version and super cheap supermarket version is eye watering.

    They (or their Lidl proxy) are both essential for making chocolatey nest thingeys with mini eggs on top suitable for Easter and after.

    Agree. Cornflakes only the rest of the year.
    I was a crunchy nut eater for much of my youth. Can’t remember when I last ate a bowl of Kelloggs.

    Kelloggs is one of those companies I think of as default brands. When you dominate a category so much, particularly if you’re consumed by children in their formative years, that you’re almost establishment. Default. Normal.

    Usually there is an “alternative” that plays the part of the yang to the default’s ying. Itself a default, establishment alternative. But somehow a bit non-U. But sometimes the dominance is such that there is no real established alternative.

    Here are some default/alt staples of my youth:

    Cereal: Kelloggs / Weetabix
    Chocolate: Cadburys / Rowntree
    Media: BBC / ITV
    Cars: Ford / Vauxhall
    Shoes: Clarks / Startrite
    Biscuits: McVities / none
    Chocolate biscuits: Pengiun / wagon wheels
    Burgers: McDonalds / Wimpy (now BK)
    Squash: Robinson’s / none
    Campsites: Eurocamp / Keycamp
    Supermarkets: Sainsbury’s / Tesco (I suspect for others that might be different)
    Newsagents: WHSmith / John Menzies
    Soft drinks: Coke / Pepsi
    Instant coffee: Nescafé / Maxwell House
    Portuguese beer: Superbock / Sagres
    Mid range clothes shop: M&S / Next
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
    After all, our Greatest Ever Prime Minister® wasn't renowned for getting to the end of a coherent sentence, ever.

    But he Had Charisma and Delivered Brexit, so that's fine.
    Boris was an untrustworthy lying shit (and I wasn't even married to him) but he was a funny untrustworthy lying shit. Worth a lot in my book.
    ‘Funny’ is such a subjective thing.
    I always found his heavily signalled overworked or underworked zingers followed by an expectation that everyone would be amused & charmed distinctly unfunny, so that’s a no redeeming qualities from me.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    Can only a matter of time before someone does a Wildchild 'Renegade Master' -> 'Tech bro brother' remix
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    What is a lanyard and why are they important?

    The ribbon like thingy which one wears around the collar* to bear a security pass at work.

    Apparently seen as a crucial issue by HMG.

    *Edit: neck, really, but in practice outside the collar. They became a thing about 25-30 years ago in big organizations.
    Nonesense.

    A lanyard is a sigil of the power posed by A Keeper of Access. Much as hi-viz is a sigil of those gifted with The Power of Authouritah.

    As such, it has deep and sacred meanings among the Traditional Cult Of The Clipboard.
    Lanyards do have the pleasing tactile bonus of being stretchable - you grab the card and pull it to place on the entrance gate, then it zips satisfyingly back into place after you let go. #simplepleasures
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
    After all, our Greatest Ever Prime Minister® wasn't renowned for getting to the end of a coherent sentence, ever.

    But he Had Charisma and Delivered Brexit, so that's fine.
    Boris was an untrustworthy lying shit (and I wasn't even married to him) but he was a funny untrustworthy lying shit. Worth a lot in my book.
    Being a Latin speaking former privately educated chap buys you so much goodwill from the public I have found in my experience when you can make people laugh.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    edited May 15
    boulay said:

    MattW said:

    Let's go off topic.

    I just had an invitation to spend a day at a naturist site.

    Any experience or experiences?

    Just make sure before you set off in the buff it actually does read “naturist” and not “naturalist”.
    They tend to be branded "Sun Clubs" these days, and according to the Groan there has been a resurgence during and since Covid.

    With some margin of error ! As ever the values of Gen Z are intensely individualist, so they are free range nudists / naturists, and self-exhibiting on social media.

    Aug 22: 1.3 million estd
    Oct 22: 7 million by self-identification

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/aug/07/bare-with-us-why-naturism-in-britain-is-booming
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/oct/15/nearly-7m-people-uk-identify-naturists-nudists-survey-naturism
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Oops! Put up the wrong link to the Sickle Cell article. Here's the correct link: source$: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/06/health/sickle-cell-cure-first.html

    The article title, in my print copy is: "Hope for Sickle Cell Gene Therapy". (Maybe I need more practice in posting links to positive articles.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    It's a synonym for PB regulars.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,826

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
    After all, our Greatest Ever Prime Minister® wasn't renowned for getting to the end of a coherent sentence, ever.

    But he Had Charisma and Delivered Brexit, so that's fine.
    Boris was an untrustworthy lying shit (and I wasn't even married to him) but he was a funny untrustworthy lying shit. Worth a lot in my book.
    ‘Funny’ is such a subjective thing.
    I always found his heavily signalled overworked or underworked zingers followed by an expectation that everyone would be amused & charmed distinctly unfunny, so that’s a no redeeming qualities from me.
    “There are no disasters, only opportunities. And, indeed, opportunities for fresh
    disasters “.

    You don’t find that funny?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    algarkirk said:

    What is a lanyard and why are they important?

    I believe it's an outside area used for hosting LAN parties.

    McVey apparently wants all the ones at the government buildings painted one official colour rather than being a veritable rainbow.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    algarkirk said:

    What is a lanyard and why are they important?

    Whilst we have this Tory govt it is quite right that we put the culture war ministers in charge of matters of this level of importance.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,634

    algarkirk said:

    What is a lanyard and why are they important?

    Whilst we have this Tory govt it is quite right that we put the culture war ministers in charge of matters of this level of importance.
    If culture is a battleground, do we need a dedicated Ministry of Cultural Defence?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    edited May 15
    ...

    (Won't paste sensibly)
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
    After all, our Greatest Ever Prime Minister® wasn't renowned for getting to the end of a coherent sentence, ever.

    But he Had Charisma and Delivered Brexit, so that's fine.
    Boris was an untrustworthy lying shit (and I wasn't even married to him) but he was a funny untrustworthy lying shit. Worth a lot in my book.
    “was”?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,059

    16.9% in perfect conditions in one seat, 5.9% capital wide on the list, almost no recognisable names, no local organisation, reliant on loans and donations from Tice.
    They'll do well to break 5% nationwide at a GE with or without the spiv

    With minimal campaigning, they got 3% in the London mayoral vote, a vote in which smaller parties tend to do badly, but under a PR system, they got 7% in the Assembly vote. In the Derbyshire PCC election, they got 15%. In Lincolnshire, 14%. I think they can manage pretty well when they just appear on the ballot paper.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    MattW said:

    Let's go off topic.

    I just had an invitation to spend a day at a naturist site.

    Any experience or experiences?

    Advice/a plea: if you post pics, as many PBers are wont to do on their travels, just make sure the PB blurry pics issue is still a thing first, will you? :hushed:
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1790800793202827343?s=19

    Should be interesting given the patterns of the LEs
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Reform is essentially a vehicle for anti vaxers and those who opposed the lockdown, hardline Leavers who want to send the boats back and disillusioned Boris fans who hate Rishi.

    It is unlikely to get to UKIP levels though unless, as the poll suggests, Farage returns to lead it. In which case as the poll suggests it takes as much from Labour amongst working class white voters most likely as from the Tories
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220

    16.9% in perfect conditions in one seat, 5.9% capital wide on the list, almost no recognisable names, no local organisation, reliant on loans and donations from Tice.
    They'll do well to break 5% nationwide at a GE with or without the spiv

    With minimal campaigning, they got 3% in the London mayoral vote, a vote in which smaller parties tend to do badly, but under a PR system, they got 7% in the Assembly vote. In the Derbyshire PCC election, they got 15%. In Lincolnshire, 14%. I think they can manage pretty well when they just appear on the ballot paper.
    Depends what counts as pretty well.

    15 percent doesn't get Reform any seats under FPTP. And without that, what's the point, exactly?

    (Hence Nigel remains on the sidelines. If he stands somewhere, he very probably loses.)

    But if even five percent is siphoned from the Conservative column, that hurts Team Rishi a lot. And that is part of the real point of Reform.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    16.9% in perfect conditions in one seat, 5.9% capital wide on the list, almost no recognisable names, no local organisation, reliant on loans and donations from Tice.
    They'll do well to break 5% nationwide at a GE with or without the spiv

    With minimal campaigning, they got 3% in the London mayoral vote, a vote in which smaller parties tend to do badly, but under a PR system, they got 7% in the Assembly vote. In the Derbyshire PCC election, they got 15%. In Lincolnshire, 14%. I think they can manage pretty well when they just appear on the ballot paper.
    Depends what counts as pretty well.

    15 percent doesn't get Reform any seats under FPTP. And without that, what's the point, exactly?

    (Hence Nigel remains on the sidelines. If he stands somewhere, he very probably loses.)

    But if even five percent is siphoned from the Conservative column, that hurts Team Rishi a lot. And that is part of the real point of Reform.
    They could get 20% if Farage is leader.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    HYUFD said:

    Reform is essentially a vehicle for anti vaxers and those who opposed the lockdown, hardline Leavers who want to send the boats back and disillusioned Boris fans who hate Rishi.

    It is unlikely to get to UKIP levels though unless, as the poll suggests, Farage returns to lead it. In which case as the poll suggests it takes as much from Labour amongst working class white voters most likely as from the Tories

    The poll numbers quoted are misleading. A Farage-led Reform would scoop up a significant proportion of those saying they Don't Know or Won't Vote. The actual number saying they would vote Labour goes up but as a proportion of the whole falls because of the influx of the former DK voters who would back a Farage-led Reform party.

    The numbers voting Conservative are similar but again there's a fall as a percentage of the greater whole.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited May 15
    Any comments on Geert Wilders' party entering government in the Netherlands, even if he isn't going to be PM.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2qvqwq0gxlo
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    edited May 15

    16.9% in perfect conditions in one seat, 5.9% capital wide on the list, almost no recognisable names, no local organisation, reliant on loans and donations from Tice.
    They'll do well to break 5% nationwide at a GE with or without the spiv

    With minimal campaigning, they got 3% in the London mayoral vote, a vote in which smaller parties tend to do badly, but under a PR system, they got 7% in the Assembly vote. In the Derbyshire PCC election, they got 15%. In Lincolnshire, 14%. I think they can manage pretty well when they just appear on the ballot paper.
    Depends what counts as pretty well.

    15 percent doesn't get Reform any seats under FPTP. And without that, what's the point, exactly?

    (Hence Nigel remains on the sidelines. If he stands somewhere, he very probably loses.)

    But if even five percent is siphoned from the Conservative column, that hurts Team Rishi a lot. And that is part of the real point of Reform.
    Depends on events doesn’t it? I agree I don’t think it’s very likely that Reform would get any seats in a GE, but there is a perfect storm where they conceivably could. It does require everything to go wrong for Rishi though, and for a number of voters to believe it’s worth their while to decamp to Reform. That probably only occurs if there is sustained crossover in the polls starting fairly soon - again, probably not a tremendously likely situation but then again the Tories just keep sinking in the polls…

    At that point squint and turn your head to one side and add Farage into the mix and there’s certain seat profiles (particularly Northern Red Wall) where voters who would otherwise vote Tory OR Labour might be tempted to jump, for the same reasons they jumped to Boris.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    Andy_JS said:

    Any comments on Geert Wilders' party entering government in the Netherlands, even if he isn't going to be PM.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2qvqwq0gxlo

    The Netherlands seems like exactly the sort of place to test dangerous ideas.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
    After all, our Greatest Ever Prime Minister® wasn't renowned for getting to the end of a coherent sentence, ever.

    But he Had Charisma and Delivered Brexit, so that's fine.
    Boris was an untrustworthy lying shit (and I wasn't even married to him) but he was a funny untrustworthy lying shit. Worth a lot in my book.
    Would be in my book too. I'll forgive a lot from someone who makes me laugh. Problem was, Johnson rarely did. When people play things for laughs, but aren't funny, they have nothing left. That was always Johnson's fundamental problem for me, more than the politics, which chopped and changed anyway.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Andy_JS said:

    Any comments on Geert Wilders' party entering government in the Netherlands, even if he isn't going to be PM.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2qvqwq0gxlo

    Democracy. They did well in the election.

    Remains to be seen whether it holds and how joining the coalition will affect the other parties' fortunes long term. And, indeed, Wilders after a spell in government for his party, unless he can successfully blame the coalition partners for any failings.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Andy_JS said:

    Any comments on Geert Wilders' party entering government in the Netherlands, even if he isn't going to be PM.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2qvqwq0gxlo

    The best way to discredit right wing populism is to put them in government if elected. They will do stupid things and often permanent damage to the country, but that is democracy.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    The last 2 polls by JLPartners on Wikepedia had Lab on 41 and 42, and Reform on 13% in both, so not sure where the shift figures in the header come from.

    There would seem to be a few percent Con to Reform shift, but possibly just MOE.

    They conducted a standard VI poll at the same time. Then added the Farage leading Reform question as a supllementary.

    The changes are with that poll.
    Hard to know how you would prompt this without hitting the leading question problem. "What would your vote be if Farage became leader of Reform" is a very good way of a. putting Reform top of mind, b. implying that received wisdom is he'd do a better job for them.

    Many probably thought Farage was head of Reform anyway. It's like asking "would you prefer Rice Krispies or Cornflakes?" then "what about if the Cornflakes were fortified with vitamins and iron?" I bet you'd get a few people changing their choice simply because they were being prompted.
    No one in their right mind would prefer Rice Krispies to Corn Flakes.
    Just unnatural.
    They are both items where the difference in price between Kelloggs version and super cheap supermarket version is eye watering.

    They (or their Lidl proxy) are both essential for making chocolatey nest thingeys with mini eggs on top suitable for Easter and after.

    Agree. Cornflakes only the rest of the year.
    I was a crunchy nut eater for much of my youth. Can’t remember when I last ate a bowl of Kelloggs.

    Kelloggs is one of those companies I think of as default brands. When you dominate a category so much, particularly if you’re consumed by children in their formative years, that you’re almost establishment. Default. Normal.

    Usually there is an “alternative” that plays the part of the yang to the default’s ying. Itself a default, establishment alternative. But somehow a bit non-U. But sometimes the dominance is such that there is no real established alternative.

    Here are some default/alt staples of my youth:

    Cereal: Kelloggs / Weetabix
    Chocolate: Cadburys / Rowntree
    Media: BBC / ITV
    Cars: Ford / Vauxhall
    Shoes: Clarks / Startrite
    Biscuits: McVities / none
    Chocolate biscuits: Pengiun / wagon wheels
    Burgers: McDonalds / Wimpy (now BK)
    Squash: Robinson’s / none
    Campsites: Eurocamp / Keycamp
    Supermarkets: Sainsbury’s / Tesco (I suspect for others that might be different)
    Newsagents: WHSmith / John Menzies
    Soft drinks: Coke / Pepsi
    Instant coffee: Nescafé / Maxwell House
    Portuguese beer: Superbock / Sagres
    Mid range clothes shop: M&S / Next
    Very interesting. And each age is different. 'Next' for example did not exist in my formative years, nor McDonalds. The rivals to M & S were BHS, Littlewoods, but all regarded as very much second and also rans. Huntley and Palmer would have been a rival to the great McVitie. Heinz had no rival in the baked bean and tomato ketchup stakes. Birds Eye and Findus occupied pole positions in frozen stuff.

    Tesco was downmarket. Sainsbury's were moving from staffed counters to self service.

    Ice Cream: Walls. Alt: Lyons Maid.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Andy_JS said:

    16.9% in perfect conditions in one seat, 5.9% capital wide on the list, almost no recognisable names, no local organisation, reliant on loans and donations from Tice.
    They'll do well to break 5% nationwide at a GE with or without the spiv

    With minimal campaigning, they got 3% in the London mayoral vote, a vote in which smaller parties tend to do badly, but under a PR system, they got 7% in the Assembly vote. In the Derbyshire PCC election, they got 15%. In Lincolnshire, 14%. I think they can manage pretty well when they just appear on the ballot paper.
    Depends what counts as pretty well.

    15 percent doesn't get Reform any seats under FPTP. And without that, what's the point, exactly?

    (Hence Nigel remains on the sidelines. If he stands somewhere, he very probably loses.)

    But if even five percent is siphoned from the Conservative column, that hurts Team Rishi a lot. And that is part of the real point of Reform.
    They could get 20% if Farage is leader.
    Could doing a lot of work there!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
    After all, our Greatest Ever Prime Minister® wasn't renowned for getting to the end of a coherent sentence, ever.

    But he Had Charisma and Delivered Brexit, so that's fine.
    Boris was an untrustworthy lying shit (and I wasn't even married to him) but he was a funny untrustworthy lying shit. Worth a lot in my book.
    ‘Funny’ is such a subjective thing.
    I always found his heavily signalled overworked or underworked zingers followed by an expectation that everyone would be amused & charmed distinctly unfunny, so that’s a no redeeming qualities from me.
    “There are no disasters, only opportunities. And, indeed, opportunities for fresh
    disasters “.

    You don’t find that funny?
    Not really. What does it even mean?
    I suppose I might conjure up a grim rictus at the irony of BJ having a bit of a laff about disasters.

    Still, speaking of rictus smiles and exPMs, just had Gordy Broon on C4 going on about how terrible & damaging child poverty was in the UK. Thank goodness we listened to him in 2014, think how much worse it could have been.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    Selebian said:

    algarkirk said:

    What is a lanyard and why are they important?

    I believe it's an outside area used for hosting LAN parties.

    McVey apparently wants all the ones at the government buildings painted one official colour rather than being a veritable rainbow.
    Despite all the easy jokes on this issue as being incredibly trivial, in a way I find that works both ways, in that I find it hard to get outraged at the idea even if it is a dumb thing to get worked up about in the first place, as it is also a dumb thing to get worked up about if the rules are changed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Any comments on Geert Wilders' party entering government in the Netherlands, even if he isn't going to be PM.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2qvqwq0gxlo

    The Netherlands seems like exactly the sort of place to test dangerous ideas.
    What do we have Wales for if not that exact purpose?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215
    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    The last 2 polls by JLPartners on Wikepedia had Lab on 41 and 42, and Reform on 13% in both, so not sure where the shift figures in the header come from.

    There would seem to be a few percent Con to Reform shift, but possibly just MOE.

    They conducted a standard VI poll at the same time. Then added the Farage leading Reform question as a supllementary.

    The changes are with that poll.
    Hard to know how you would prompt this without hitting the leading question problem. "What would your vote be if Farage became leader of Reform" is a very good way of a. putting Reform top of mind, b. implying that received wisdom is he'd do a better job for them.

    Many probably thought Farage was head of Reform anyway. It's like asking "would you prefer Rice Krispies or Cornflakes?" then "what about if the Cornflakes were fortified with vitamins and iron?" I bet you'd get a few people changing their choice simply because they were being prompted.
    No one in their right mind would prefer Rice Krispies to Corn Flakes.
    Just unnatural.
    They are both items where the difference in price between Kelloggs version and super cheap supermarket version is eye watering.

    They (or their Lidl proxy) are both essential for making chocolatey nest thingeys with mini eggs on top suitable for Easter and after.

    Agree. Cornflakes only the rest of the year.
    I was a crunchy nut eater for much of my youth. Can’t remember when I last ate a bowl of Kelloggs.

    Kelloggs is one of those companies I think of as default brands. When you dominate a category so much, particularly if you’re consumed by children in their formative years, that you’re almost establishment. Default. Normal.

    Usually there is an “alternative” that plays the part of the yang to the default’s ying. Itself a default, establishment alternative. But somehow a bit non-U. But sometimes the dominance is such that there is no real established alternative.

    Here are some default/alt staples of my youth:

    Cereal: Kelloggs / Weetabix
    Chocolate: Cadburys / Rowntree
    Media: BBC / ITV
    Cars: Ford / Vauxhall
    Shoes: Clarks / Startrite
    Biscuits: McVities / none
    Chocolate biscuits: Pengiun / wagon wheels
    Burgers: McDonalds / Wimpy (now BK)
    Squash: Robinson’s / none
    Campsites: Eurocamp / Keycamp
    Supermarkets: Sainsbury’s / Tesco (I suspect for others that might be different)
    Newsagents: WHSmith / John Menzies
    Soft drinks: Coke / Pepsi
    Instant coffee: Nescafé / Maxwell House
    Portuguese beer: Superbock / Sagres
    Mid range clothes shop: M&S / Next
    Branston pickle
    Pickled onions
    Angel Delight
    Findus crispy pancakes
    Birds custard
    Ambrosia Rice pudding
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reform is essentially a vehicle for anti vaxers and those who opposed the lockdown, hardline Leavers who want to send the boats back and disillusioned Boris fans who hate Rishi.

    It is unlikely to get to UKIP levels though unless, as the poll suggests, Farage returns to lead it. In which case as the poll suggests it takes as much from Labour amongst working class white voters most likely as from the Tories

    The poll numbers quoted are misleading. A Farage-led Reform would scoop up a significant proportion of those saying they Don't Know or Won't Vote. The actual number saying they would vote Labour goes up but as a proportion of the whole falls because of the influx of the former DK voters who would back a Farage-led Reform party.

    The numbers voting Conservative are similar but again there's a fall as a percentage of the greater whole.
    I'm dubious that in reality we have 6% or nearly 2 million voters waiting for Nigel on the edge of their seats
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited May 15

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
    After all, our Greatest Ever Prime Minister® wasn't renowned for getting to the end of a coherent sentence, ever.

    But he Had Charisma and Delivered Brexit, so that's fine.
    Boris was an untrustworthy lying shit (and I wasn't even married to him) but he was a funny untrustworthy lying shit. Worth a lot in my book.
    ‘Funny’ is such a subjective thing.
    I always found his heavily signalled overworked or underworked zingers followed by an expectation that everyone would be amused & charmed distinctly unfunny, so that’s a no redeeming qualities from me.
    “There are no disasters, only opportunities. And, indeed, opportunities for fresh
    disasters “.

    You don’t find that funny?
    Not really. What does it even mean?
    I suppose I might conjure up a grim rictus at the irony of BJ having a bit of a laff about disasters.

    Still, speaking of rictus smiles and exPMs, just had Gordy Broon on C4 going on about how terrible & damaging child poverty was in the UK. Thank goodness we listened to him in 2014, think how much worse it could have been.
    Wages are now rising faster than inflation in Scotland
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
    After all, our Greatest Ever Prime Minister® wasn't renowned for getting to the end of a coherent sentence, ever.

    But he Had Charisma and Delivered Brexit, so that's fine.
    Boris was an untrustworthy lying shit (and I wasn't even married to him) but he was a funny untrustworthy lying shit. Worth a lot in my book.
    And he threw it all away. Shame, because we could do with the optimism.

    Some novel I once read, about a disintegrating marriage had "he used to make me laugh" as a chapter closer.

    It's up there with "baby shoes for sale, never worn" in poignancy per word.
    I think optimism was part of why Boris succeeded, but it helped that things really did not seem as bad as the doom story the opposition was trying to paint for us. Now, not only is Sunak not good at optimism, but a lot of things just seem kind of low grade crappy, and the response is either that we're wrong to think that, or that the people in charge for 14 years have not managed to prevent it but are somehow the best placed to address it.

    It's not very persuasive, and whilst Truss wanted to try for another 'time for a change' message within government, she did it poorly and now we have the government paralysed, unable/unwilling to do bold things, but not managing to do dull competence either.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reform is essentially a vehicle for anti vaxers and those who opposed the lockdown, hardline Leavers who want to send the boats back and disillusioned Boris fans who hate Rishi.

    It is unlikely to get to UKIP levels though unless, as the poll suggests, Farage returns to lead it. In which case as the poll suggests it takes as much from Labour amongst working class white voters most likely as from the Tories

    The poll numbers quoted are misleading. A Farage-led Reform would scoop up a significant proportion of those saying they Don't Know or Won't Vote. The actual number saying they would vote Labour goes up but as a proportion of the whole falls because of the influx of the former DK voters who would back a Farage-led Reform party.

    The numbers voting Conservative are similar but again there's a fall as a percentage of the greater whole.
    I'm dubious that in reality we have 6% or nearly 2 million voters waiting for Nigel on the edge of their seats
    Many Tories love him despite him not being one for decades.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    kle4 said:

    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Any comments on Geert Wilders' party entering government in the Netherlands, even if he isn't going to be PM.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2qvqwq0gxlo

    The Netherlands seems like exactly the sort of place to test dangerous ideas.
    What do we have Wales for if not that exact purpose?
    They're still hot under the collar from an English caveman suggesting Taff as a nickname. Excellent testbed I'll grant you, but a cool down period on a geological scale.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    AlsoLei said:

    Carnyx said:

    Graun feed: Ms McVey tells C4 she never proposed a ban on rainbow lanyards.

    'Esther McVey, the Cabinet Office minister, has claimed that she never proposed a “ban'” on civil servants wearing rainbow lanyards, or other ones conveying a political message, in her speech on Monday.'

    Mind, it got PB excited ...

    Her exact words were:

    "I want a very simple but visible change to occur too – the lanyards worn to carry security passes shouldn’t be a random pick and mix, they should be a standard design reflecting that we are all members of the government delivering for the citizens of the UK.
    Working in the Civil Service is all about leaving your political views at the building entrance.
    Trying to introduce them by the back door via lanyards should not happen."

    (https://cps.org.uk/events/post/2024/speech-by-the-rt-hon-esther-mcvey-mp/)

    So whilst she didn't specifically mention rainbow lanyards, it's a bit disingenuous of her to claim she wasn't talking about a ban on "ones conveying a political message".

    (I think the first specific mention of rainbow lanyards came from the Telegraph's write-up, who presumably will have been briefed about it)
    I just discovered a lanyard can also be a thong. Maybe McVey meant civil servants should wear standard design thongs reflecting that they are members of the government delivering for the citizens of the UK.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Any comments on Geert Wilders' party entering government in the Netherlands, even if he isn't going to be PM.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2qvqwq0gxlo

    The best way to discredit right wing populism is to put them in government if elected. They will do stupid things and often permanent damage to the country, but that is democracy.
    Sometimes, not always Meloni and Modi are reasonably competent rightwing populists even if you dislike them
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,433
    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    The last 2 polls by JLPartners on Wikepedia had Lab on 41 and 42, and Reform on 13% in both, so not sure where the shift figures in the header come from.

    There would seem to be a few percent Con to Reform shift, but possibly just MOE.

    They conducted a standard VI poll at the same time. Then added the Farage leading Reform question as a supllementary.

    The changes are with that poll.
    Hard to know how you would prompt this without hitting the leading question problem. "What would your vote be if Farage became leader of Reform" is a very good way of a. putting Reform top of mind, b. implying that received wisdom is he'd do a better job for them.

    Many probably thought Farage was head of Reform anyway. It's like asking "would you prefer Rice Krispies or Cornflakes?" then "what about if the Cornflakes were fortified with vitamins and iron?" I bet you'd get a few people changing their choice simply because they were being prompted.
    No one in their right mind would prefer Rice Krispies to Corn Flakes.
    Just unnatural.
    They are both items where the difference in price between Kelloggs version and super cheap supermarket version is eye watering.

    They (or their Lidl proxy) are both essential for making chocolatey nest thingeys with mini eggs on top suitable for Easter and after.

    Agree. Cornflakes only the rest of the year.
    I was a crunchy nut eater for much of my youth. Can’t remember when I last ate a bowl of Kelloggs.

    Kelloggs is one of those companies I think of as default brands. When you dominate a category so much, particularly if you’re consumed by children in their formative years, that you’re almost establishment. Default. Normal.

    Usually there is an “alternative” that plays the part of the yang to the default’s ying. Itself a default, establishment alternative. But somehow a bit non-U. But sometimes the dominance is such that there is no real established alternative.

    Here are some default/alt staples of my youth:

    Cereal: Kelloggs / Weetabix
    Chocolate: Cadburys / Rowntree
    Media: BBC / ITV
    Cars: Ford / Vauxhall
    Shoes: Clarks / Startrite
    Biscuits: McVities / none
    Chocolate biscuits: Pengiun / wagon wheels
    Burgers: McDonalds / Wimpy (now BK)
    Squash: Robinson’s / none
    Campsites: Eurocamp / Keycamp
    Supermarkets: Sainsbury’s / Tesco (I suspect for others that might be different)
    Newsagents: WHSmith / John Menzies
    Soft drinks: Coke / Pepsi
    Instant coffee: Nescafé / Maxwell House
    Portuguese beer: Superbock / Sagres
    Mid range clothes shop: M&S / Next
    Very interesting. And each age is different. 'Next' for example did not exist in my formative years, nor McDonalds. The rivals to M & S were BHS, Littlewoods, but all regarded as very much second and also rans. Huntley and Palmer would have been a rival to the great McVitie. Heinz had no rival in the baked bean and tomato ketchup stakes. Birds Eye and Findus occupied pole positions in frozen stuff.

    Tesco was downmarket. Sainsbury's were moving from staffed counters to self service.

    Ice Cream: Walls. Alt: Lyons Maid.
    And now it's Hagen Dazs and Ben & Jerry's - a US takeover (though the latter is now owned by Anglo-Dutch Uniliver).

    I buy Co-op West Country salted caramel - unbeatable.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    ydoethur said:

    Apparently the man detained for shooting Fico is 71 years old.

    I think we can start to rule out the possibility of professional assassins.

    The alleged name and identity is being fairly widely shared on social media
    Apparently an anti-violence campaigner.

    https://x.com/ianbremmer/status/1790790908381905294?s=46
    And a reply to the tweet:

    "Wow. Looks like Slovak PM Robert Fico's reported assailant, writer Juraj Cintula, was associated with pro-Russian paramilitary group Slovenskí Branci (SB). Their leader was even trained by Russian ex-Spetsnaz soldiers."

    https://twitter.com/panyiszabolcs/status/1790789652078526939
    I very much dislike words like "associated", because they can mean "really closely involved with", or "knows someone who is a member".
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Any comments on Geert Wilders' party entering government in the Netherlands, even if he isn't going to be PM.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2qvqwq0gxlo

    The best way to discredit right wing populism is to put them in government if elected. They will do stupid things and often permanent damage to the country, but that is democracy.
    Populism is not only a right wing thing. On the whole no sort of populism can be implemented because they contain contradictions both self-referentially and with regard to human nature; this is a characteristic of populism because it is defined by proposing simple solutions to complex problems of a complex human race.

    Notice how little a 'right wing populist' government in Italy has actually done right wing populist stuff.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Apparently the man detained for shooting Fico is 71 years old.

    I think we can start to rule out the possibility of professional assassins.

    Yeah, they all have professional final salary pensions etc that will have clocked in before that.
    Presumably, professional assassins make their real money in the betting markets. "Next Slovak PM... hmmm... I'm going for Not Fico."
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Apparently the man detained for shooting Fico is 71 years old.

    I think we can start to rule out the possibility of professional assassins.

    The alleged name and identity is being fairly widely shared on social media
    Apparently an anti-violence campaigner.

    https://x.com/ianbremmer/status/1790790908381905294?s=46
    And a reply to the tweet:

    "Wow. Looks like Slovak PM Robert Fico's reported assailant, writer Juraj Cintula, was associated with pro-Russian paramilitary group Slovenskí Branci (SB). Their leader was even trained by Russian ex-Spetsnaz soldiers."

    https://twitter.com/panyiszabolcs/status/1790789652078526939
    I very much dislike words like "associated", because they can mean "really closely involved with", or "knows someone who is a member".
    Yes. 'Link/linked' is a key tabloid word.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
    After all, our Greatest Ever Prime Minister® wasn't renowned for getting to the end of a coherent sentence, ever.

    But he Had Charisma and Delivered Brexit, so that's fine.
    Boris was an untrustworthy lying shit (and I wasn't even married to him) but he was a funny untrustworthy lying shit. Worth a lot in my book.
    ‘Funny’ is such a subjective thing.
    I always found his heavily signalled overworked or underworked zingers followed by an expectation that everyone would be amused & charmed distinctly unfunny, so that’s a no redeeming qualities from me.
    “There are no disasters, only opportunities. And, indeed, opportunities for fresh
    disasters “.

    You don’t find that funny?
    Not really. What does it even mean?
    I suppose I might conjure up a grim rictus at the irony of BJ having a bit of a laff about disasters.

    Still, speaking of rictus smiles and exPMs, just had Gordy Broon on C4 going on about how terrible & damaging child poverty was in the UK. Thank goodness we listened to him in 2014, think how much worse it could have been.
    Wages are now rising faster than inflation in Scotland
    Just such a shame about the last 2-3 years, notd to mention the Trussonomic disasters affecting interest rates.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    kle4 said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reform is essentially a vehicle for anti vaxers and those who opposed the lockdown, hardline Leavers who want to send the boats back and disillusioned Boris fans who hate Rishi.

    It is unlikely to get to UKIP levels though unless, as the poll suggests, Farage returns to lead it. In which case as the poll suggests it takes as much from Labour amongst working class white voters most likely as from the Tories

    The poll numbers quoted are misleading. A Farage-led Reform would scoop up a significant proportion of those saying they Don't Know or Won't Vote. The actual number saying they would vote Labour goes up but as a proportion of the whole falls because of the influx of the former DK voters who would back a Farage-led Reform party.

    The numbers voting Conservative are similar but again there's a fall as a percentage of the greater whole.
    I'm dubious that in reality we have 6% or nearly 2 million voters waiting for Nigel on the edge of their seats
    Many Tories love him despite him not being one for decades.
    Yes but the poll suggests the additional 6% is DKs and Not voting respondents from poll one. I just don't believe there is that much personal interest in him from the disillusioned. Its more another 'FU' response to politics in general, Big Nige being the insurgent he is.
    Would they bother at an actual GE? Nah.
    Reform under 7% at a GE for me
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Apparently the man detained for shooting Fico is 71 years old.

    I think we can start to rule out the possibility of professional assassins.

    The alleged name and identity is being fairly widely shared on social media
    Apparently an anti-violence campaigner.

    https://x.com/ianbremmer/status/1790790908381905294?s=46
    And a reply to the tweet:

    "Wow. Looks like Slovak PM Robert Fico's reported assailant, writer Juraj Cintula, was associated with pro-Russian paramilitary group Slovenskí Branci (SB). Their leader was even trained by Russian ex-Spetsnaz soldiers."

    https://twitter.com/panyiszabolcs/status/1790789652078526939
    I very much dislike words like "associated", because they can mean "really closely involved with", or "knows someone who is a member".
    The joys of the english language.

    I like how something being outstanding could be good or bad, based on context.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    Carnyx said:

    isam said:
    There are some words I stumble over. I would not be impressed by anyone who thought the less of my argument for a few extra seconds.

    Of course, if one is only concerned with presentation, rather than, say, content, or truth, or logic, or those tired old things, one might feel entirely free to sneer at someone for having a stammer, or a trip of the tongue.
    Oh wonderful you!

    Of course content of character etc is more important, although Sir Keir is a dishonest sneak who devalues words such as "principle" and "integrity", but unfortunately presentation and charisma do play a part, and I think Starmer's stiff, awkward manner will be a negative for Labour during the campaign/in the debates
    I refer the hon. PBer to the report posted earlier. All about the stutter and nothing else: in other words, Mr Sunak is implying that only presentation matters.

    'The same thing happened later. Starmer stuttered. The whole of the Tory side went ballistic. "This proves he's not fit to lead this country", shot a delighted Sunak. Ten seconds later he was, again unsuccessfully, trying to pivot from fratboy bully to solemn statesman.'

    Fair enough, stuttering under pressure is a good thing for a politician to have in their armoury during an election campaign
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,059
    The thing about Farage returning is… it’s not like he’s gone away. He’s still associated with the party, he’s still on TV and active in political discourse. He is far more present in Reform UK than the former leaders of the Conservatives, Labour, LibDems, SNP or DUP are in their parties.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    algarkirk said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Any comments on Geert Wilders' party entering government in the Netherlands, even if he isn't going to be PM.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2qvqwq0gxlo

    The best way to discredit right wing populism is to put them in government if elected. They will do stupid things and often permanent damage to the country, but that is democracy.
    Populism is not only a right wing thing. On the whole no sort of populism can be implemented because they contain contradictions both self-referentially and with regard to human nature; this is a characteristic of populism because it is defined by proposing simple solutions to complex problems of a complex human race.

    Notice how little a 'right wing populist' government in Italy has actually done right wing populist stuff.
    I agree, but the party under discussion are right wing.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,433
    edited May 15

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
    After all, our Greatest Ever Prime Minister® wasn't renowned for getting to the end of a coherent sentence, ever.

    But he Had Charisma and Delivered Brexit, so that's fine.
    Boris was an untrustworthy lying shit (and I wasn't even married to him) but he was a funny untrustworthy lying shit. Worth a lot in my book.
    ‘Funny’ is such a subjective thing.
    I always found his heavily signalled overworked or underworked zingers followed by an expectation that everyone would be amused & charmed distinctly unfunny, so that’s a no redeeming qualities from me.
    “There are no disasters, only opportunities. And, indeed, opportunities for fresh
    disasters “.

    You don’t find that funny?
    Not really. What does it even mean?
    I suppose I might conjure up a grim rictus at the irony of BJ having a bit of a laff about disasters.

    Still, speaking of rictus smiles and exPMs, just had Gordy Broon on C4 going on about how terrible & damaging child poverty was in the UK. Thank goodness we listened to him in 2014, think how much worse it could have been.
    It wasn't that Boris necessarily did comedy routines, but one knew he had a sense of humour. An early speech referencing Huskisson's violent death due to Stevenson's rocket (back in the halcyon days) was funny because Boris accidentally made himself laugh. I don't think Truss is renowned for her sense of humour, though she seems quite a sport. Sunak doesn’t have a detectable sense of humour. Nor does Starmer.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    edited May 15

    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    The last 2 polls by JLPartners on Wikepedia had Lab on 41 and 42, and Reform on 13% in both, so not sure where the shift figures in the header come from.

    There would seem to be a few percent Con to Reform shift, but possibly just MOE.

    They conducted a standard VI poll at the same time. Then added the Farage leading Reform question as a supllementary.

    The changes are with that poll.
    Hard to know how you would prompt this without hitting the leading question problem. "What would your vote be if Farage became leader of Reform" is a very good way of a. putting Reform top of mind, b. implying that received wisdom is he'd do a better job for them.

    Many probably thought Farage was head of Reform anyway. It's like asking "would you prefer Rice Krispies or Cornflakes?" then "what about if the Cornflakes were fortified with vitamins and iron?" I bet you'd get a few people changing their choice simply because they were being prompted.
    No one in their right mind would prefer Rice Krispies to Corn Flakes.
    Just unnatural.
    They are both items where the difference in price between Kelloggs version and super cheap supermarket version is eye watering.

    They (or their Lidl proxy) are both essential for making chocolatey nest thingeys with mini eggs on top suitable for Easter and after.

    Agree. Cornflakes only the rest of the year.
    I was a crunchy nut eater for much of my youth. Can’t remember when I last ate a bowl of Kelloggs.

    Kelloggs is one of those companies I think of as default brands. When you dominate a category so much, particularly if you’re consumed by children in their formative years, that you’re almost establishment. Default. Normal.

    Usually there is an “alternative” that plays the part of the yang to the default’s ying. Itself a default, establishment alternative. But somehow a bit non-U. But sometimes the dominance is such that there is no real established alternative.

    Here are some default/alt staples of my youth:

    Cereal: Kelloggs / Weetabix
    Chocolate: Cadburys / Rowntree
    Media: BBC / ITV
    Cars: Ford / Vauxhall
    Shoes: Clarks / Startrite
    Biscuits: McVities / none
    Chocolate biscuits: Pengiun / wagon wheels
    Burgers: McDonalds / Wimpy (now BK)
    Squash: Robinson’s / none
    Campsites: Eurocamp / Keycamp
    Supermarkets: Sainsbury’s / Tesco (I suspect for others that might be different)
    Newsagents: WHSmith / John Menzies
    Soft drinks: Coke / Pepsi
    Instant coffee: Nescafé / Maxwell House
    Portuguese beer: Superbock / Sagres
    Mid range clothes shop: M&S / Next
    Very interesting. And each age is different. 'Next' for example did not exist in my formative years, nor McDonalds. The rivals to M & S were BHS, Littlewoods, but all regarded as very much second and also rans. Huntley and Palmer would have been a rival to the great McVitie. Heinz had no rival in the baked bean and tomato ketchup stakes. Birds Eye and Findus occupied pole positions in frozen stuff.

    Tesco was downmarket. Sainsbury's were moving from staffed counters to self service.

    Ice Cream: Walls. Alt: Lyons Maid.
    And now it's Hagen Dazs and Ben & Jerry's - a US takeover (though the latter is now owned by Anglo-Dutch Uniliver).

    I buy Co-op West Country salted caramel - unbeatable.
    Haazgen-Dazs is owned by Froneri, which is British, no?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Froneri

    Edit to add:

    Froneri owns Hangen-Dazs outside the US, while General Mills owns it in the US.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    isam said:

    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    Carnyx said:

    isam said:
    There are some words I stumble over. I would not be impressed by anyone who thought the less of my argument for a few extra seconds.

    Of course, if one is only concerned with presentation, rather than, say, content, or truth, or logic, or those tired old things, one might feel entirely free to sneer at someone for having a stammer, or a trip of the tongue.
    Oh wonderful you!

    Of course content of character etc is more important, although Sir Keir is a dishonest sneak who devalues words such as "principle" and "integrity", but unfortunately presentation and charisma do play a part, and I think Starmer's stiff, awkward manner will be a negative for Labour during the campaign/in the debates
    I refer the hon. PBer to the report posted earlier. All about the stutter and nothing else: in other words, Mr Sunak is implying that only presentation matters.

    'The same thing happened later. Starmer stuttered. The whole of the Tory side went ballistic. "This proves he's not fit to lead this country", shot a delighted Sunak. Ten seconds later he was, again unsuccessfully, trying to pivot from fratboy bully to solemn statesman.'

    Fair enough, stuttering under pressure is a good thing for a politician to have in their armoury during an election campaign
    Stumbling over Tech-bro wasn't a stutter, which is quite a distinct speech impediment.

    It seems to be a one off, or do you have other examples?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,634
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Any comments on Geert Wilders' party entering government in the Netherlands, even if he isn't going to be PM.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2qvqwq0gxlo

    The best way to discredit right wing populism is to put them in government if elected. They will do stupid things and often permanent damage to the country, but that is democracy.
    Sometimes, not always Meloni and Modi are reasonably competent rightwing populists even if you dislike them
    Meloni could have quite a dominant posiiton in European politics after the next EU elections.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
    After all, our Greatest Ever Prime Minister® wasn't renowned for getting to the end of a coherent sentence, ever.

    But he Had Charisma and Delivered Brexit, so that's fine.
    Boris was an untrustworthy lying shit (and I wasn't even married to him) but he was a funny untrustworthy lying shit. Worth a lot in my book.
    ‘Funny’ is such a subjective thing.
    I always found his heavily signalled overworked or underworked zingers followed by an expectation that everyone would be amused & charmed distinctly unfunny, so that’s a no redeeming qualities from me.
    “There are no disasters, only opportunities. And, indeed, opportunities for fresh
    disasters “.

    You don’t find that funny?
    Not really. What does it even mean?
    I suppose I might conjure up a grim rictus at the irony of BJ having a bit of a laff about disasters.

    Still, speaking of rictus smiles and exPMs, just had Gordy Broon on C4 going on about how terrible & damaging child poverty was in the UK. Thank goodness we listened to him in 2014, think how much worse it could have been.
    It wasn't that Boris necessarily did comedy routines, but one knew he had a sense of humour. An early speech referencing Huskisson's violent death due to Stevenson's rocket (back in the halcyon days) was funny because Boris accidentally made himself laugh. I don't think Truss is renowned for her sense of humour, though she seems quite a sport. Sunak doesn’t have a detectable sense of humour. Nor does Starmer.
    Truss is just insane
    Starmer seems like he's hiding a sense of humour somewhere
    Sunak won't share
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    kle4 said:

    Selebian said:

    algarkirk said:

    What is a lanyard and why are they important?

    I believe it's an outside area used for hosting LAN parties.

    McVey apparently wants all the ones at the government buildings painted one official colour rather than being a veritable rainbow.
    Despite all the easy jokes on this issue as being incredibly trivial, in a way I find that works both ways, in that I find it hard to get outraged at the idea even if it is a dumb thing to get worked up about in the first place, as it is also a dumb thing to get worked up about if the rules are changed.
    Deleted
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    Stocky said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    The last 2 polls by JLPartners on Wikepedia had Lab on 41 and 42, and Reform on 13% in both, so not sure where the shift figures in the header come from.

    There would seem to be a few percent Con to Reform shift, but possibly just MOE.

    They conducted a standard VI poll at the same time. Then added the Farage leading Reform question as a supllementary.

    The changes are with that poll.
    Hard to know how you would prompt this without hitting the leading question problem. "What would your vote be if Farage became leader of Reform" is a very good way of a. putting Reform top of mind, b. implying that received wisdom is he'd do a better job for them.

    Many probably thought Farage was head of Reform anyway. It's like asking "would you prefer Rice Krispies or Cornflakes?" then "what about if the Cornflakes were fortified with vitamins and iron?" I bet you'd get a few people changing their choice simply because they were being prompted.
    No one in their right mind would prefer Rice Krispies to Corn Flakes.
    Just unnatural.
    They are both items where the difference in price between Kelloggs version and super cheap supermarket version is eye watering.

    They (or their Lidl proxy) are both essential for making chocolatey nest thingeys with mini eggs on top suitable for Easter and after.

    Agree. Cornflakes only the rest of the year.
    I was a crunchy nut eater for much of my youth. Can’t remember when I last ate a bowl of Kelloggs.

    Kelloggs is one of those companies I think of as default brands. When you dominate a category so much, particularly if you’re consumed by children in their formative years, that you’re almost establishment. Default. Normal.

    Usually there is an “alternative” that plays the part of the yang to the default’s ying. Itself a default, establishment alternative. But somehow a bit non-U. But sometimes the dominance is such that there is no real established alternative.

    Here are some default/alt staples of my youth:

    Cereal: Kelloggs / Weetabix
    Chocolate: Cadburys / Rowntree
    Media: BBC / ITV
    Cars: Ford / Vauxhall
    Shoes: Clarks / Startrite
    Biscuits: McVities / none
    Chocolate biscuits: Pengiun / wagon wheels
    Burgers: McDonalds / Wimpy (now BK)
    Squash: Robinson’s / none
    Campsites: Eurocamp / Keycamp
    Supermarkets: Sainsbury’s / Tesco (I suspect for others that might be different)
    Newsagents: WHSmith / John Menzies
    Soft drinks: Coke / Pepsi
    Instant coffee: Nescafé / Maxwell House
    Portuguese beer: Superbock / Sagres
    Mid range clothes shop: M&S / Next
    Branston pickle
    Pickled onions
    Angel Delight
    Findus crispy pancakes
    Birds custard
    Ambrosia Rice pudding
    You can’t have pickled onions, that’s not a brand.

    All of those others are examples of hyper segmented categories where there’s only space for one brand alongside the supermarket own label. Likewise Lee and Perrin Worcester sauce, and until a few years ago Schweppes tonic water.

    I find the stable duopolies very interesting. Our political system is one such example. It’s Kelloggs Tories and Labour Weetabix, with occasional creditable third place efforts from Quaker and Scotts porage oats.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,059
    rcs1000 said:

    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    The last 2 polls by JLPartners on Wikepedia had Lab on 41 and 42, and Reform on 13% in both, so not sure where the shift figures in the header come from.

    There would seem to be a few percent Con to Reform shift, but possibly just MOE.

    They conducted a standard VI poll at the same time. Then added the Farage leading Reform question as a supllementary.

    The changes are with that poll.
    Hard to know how you would prompt this without hitting the leading question problem. "What would your vote be if Farage became leader of Reform" is a very good way of a. putting Reform top of mind, b. implying that received wisdom is he'd do a better job for them.

    Many probably thought Farage was head of Reform anyway. It's like asking "would you prefer Rice Krispies or Cornflakes?" then "what about if the Cornflakes were fortified with vitamins and iron?" I bet you'd get a few people changing their choice simply because they were being prompted.
    No one in their right mind would prefer Rice Krispies to Corn Flakes.
    Just unnatural.
    They are both items where the difference in price between Kelloggs version and super cheap supermarket version is eye watering.

    They (or their Lidl proxy) are both essential for making chocolatey nest thingeys with mini eggs on top suitable for Easter and after.

    Agree. Cornflakes only the rest of the year.
    I was a crunchy nut eater for much of my youth. Can’t remember when I last ate a bowl of Kelloggs.

    Kelloggs is one of those companies I think of as default brands. When you dominate a category so much, particularly if you’re consumed by children in their formative years, that you’re almost establishment. Default. Normal.

    Usually there is an “alternative” that plays the part of the yang to the default’s ying. Itself a default, establishment alternative. But somehow a bit non-U. But sometimes the dominance is such that there is no real established alternative.

    Here are some default/alt staples of my youth:

    Cereal: Kelloggs / Weetabix
    Chocolate: Cadburys / Rowntree
    Media: BBC / ITV
    Cars: Ford / Vauxhall
    Shoes: Clarks / Startrite
    Biscuits: McVities / none
    Chocolate biscuits: Pengiun / wagon wheels
    Burgers: McDonalds / Wimpy (now BK)
    Squash: Robinson’s / none
    Campsites: Eurocamp / Keycamp
    Supermarkets: Sainsbury’s / Tesco (I suspect for others that might be different)
    Newsagents: WHSmith / John Menzies
    Soft drinks: Coke / Pepsi
    Instant coffee: Nescafé / Maxwell House
    Portuguese beer: Superbock / Sagres
    Mid range clothes shop: M&S / Next
    Very interesting. And each age is different. 'Next' for example did not exist in my formative years, nor McDonalds. The rivals to M & S were BHS, Littlewoods, but all regarded as very much second and also rans. Huntley and Palmer would have been a rival to the great McVitie. Heinz had no rival in the baked bean and tomato ketchup stakes. Birds Eye and Findus occupied pole positions in frozen stuff.

    Tesco was downmarket. Sainsbury's were moving from staffed counters to self service.

    Ice Cream: Walls. Alt: Lyons Maid.
    And now it's Hagen Dazs and Ben & Jerry's - a US takeover (though the latter is now owned by Anglo-Dutch Uniliver).

    I buy Co-op West Country salted caramel - unbeatable.
    Haazgen-Dazs is owned by Froneri, which is British, no?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Froneri

    Edit to add:

    Froneri owns Hangen-Dazs outside the US, while General Mills owns it in the US.
    It is ironic that you’re struggling to spell Häagen-Dazs as the name was, of course, entirely made up to sound vaguely Scandinavian and doesn’t obey any actual Scandinavian orthography.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
    After all, our Greatest Ever Prime Minister® wasn't renowned for getting to the end of a coherent sentence, ever.

    But he Had Charisma and Delivered Brexit, so that's fine.
    Boris was an untrustworthy lying shit (and I wasn't even married to him) but he was a funny untrustworthy lying shit. Worth a lot in my book.
    ‘Funny’ is such a subjective thing.
    I always found his heavily signalled overworked or underworked zingers followed by an expectation that everyone would be amused & charmed distinctly unfunny, so that’s a no redeeming qualities from me.
    “There are no disasters, only opportunities. And, indeed, opportunities for fresh
    disasters “.

    You don’t find that funny?
    Not really. What does it even mean?
    I suppose I might conjure up a grim rictus at the irony of BJ having a bit of a laff about disasters.

    Still, speaking of rictus smiles and exPMs, just had Gordy Broon on C4 going on about how terrible & damaging child poverty was in the UK. Thank goodness we listened to him in 2014, think how much worse it could have been.
    It wasn't that Boris necessarily did comedy routines, but one knew he had a sense of humour. An early speech referencing Huskisson's violent death due to Stevenson's rocket (back in the halcyon days) was funny because Boris accidentally made himself laugh. I don't think Truss is renowned for her sense of humour, though she seems quite a sport. Sunak doesn’t have a detectable sense of humour. Nor does Starmer.
    I don't think a sense of humour in itself is a necessary asset in a politician, and in fact some may do great without one, but if you can harness it it can be powerful. Many politicians have revealed, often post office, that they are pretty engaging and funny people, but they were either too disciplined to attempt to make use of it, or couldn't quite manage it, and would be accused of being insufficiently serious or the like.

    We should be more forgiving of top politicians having the occasional gag, showing a bit of personality besides stern, righteous indignation or plodding administrator.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    The last 2 polls by JLPartners on Wikepedia had Lab on 41 and 42, and Reform on 13% in both, so not sure where the shift figures in the header come from.

    There would seem to be a few percent Con to Reform shift, but possibly just MOE.

    They conducted a standard VI poll at the same time. Then added the Farage leading Reform question as a supllementary.

    The changes are with that poll.
    Hard to know how you would prompt this without hitting the leading question problem. "What would your vote be if Farage became leader of Reform" is a very good way of a. putting Reform top of mind, b. implying that received wisdom is he'd do a better job for them.

    Many probably thought Farage was head of Reform anyway. It's like asking "would you prefer Rice Krispies or Cornflakes?" then "what about if the Cornflakes were fortified with vitamins and iron?" I bet you'd get a few people changing their choice simply because they were being prompted.
    No one in their right mind would prefer Rice Krispies to Corn Flakes.
    Just unnatural.
    They are both items where the difference in price between Kelloggs version and super cheap supermarket version is eye watering.

    They (or their Lidl proxy) are both essential for making chocolatey nest thingeys with mini eggs on top suitable for Easter and after.

    Agree. Cornflakes only the rest of the year.
    I was a crunchy nut eater for much of my youth. Can’t remember when I last ate a bowl of Kelloggs.

    Kelloggs is one of those companies I think of as default brands. When you dominate a category so much, particularly if you’re consumed by children in their formative years, that you’re almost establishment. Default. Normal.

    Usually there is an “alternative” that plays the part of the yang to the default’s ying. Itself a default, establishment alternative. But somehow a bit non-U. But sometimes the dominance is such that there is no real established alternative.

    Here are some default/alt staples of my youth:

    Cereal: Kelloggs / Weetabix
    Chocolate: Cadburys / Rowntree
    Media: BBC / ITV
    Cars: Ford / Vauxhall
    Shoes: Clarks / Startrite
    Biscuits: McVities / none
    Chocolate biscuits: Pengiun / wagon wheels
    Burgers: McDonalds / Wimpy (now BK)
    Squash: Robinson’s / none
    Campsites: Eurocamp / Keycamp
    Supermarkets: Sainsbury’s / Tesco (I suspect for others that might be different)
    Newsagents: WHSmith / John Menzies
    Soft drinks: Coke / Pepsi
    Instant coffee: Nescafé / Maxwell House
    Portuguese beer: Superbock / Sagres
    Mid range clothes shop: M&S / Next
    Very interesting. And each age is different. 'Next' for example did not exist in my formative years, nor McDonalds. The rivals to M & S were BHS, Littlewoods, but all regarded as very much second and also rans. Huntley and Palmer would have been a rival to the great McVitie. Heinz had no rival in the baked bean and tomato ketchup stakes. Birds Eye and Findus occupied pole positions in frozen stuff.

    Tesco was downmarket. Sainsbury's were moving from staffed counters to self service.

    Ice Cream: Walls. Alt: Lyons Maid.
    And now it's Hagen Dazs and Ben & Jerry's - a US takeover (though the latter is now owned by Anglo-Dutch Uniliver).

    I buy Co-op West Country salted caramel - unbeatable.
    I still miss Rossi’s, as someone brought up in Southend.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    edited May 15
    I can see a scenario where the country turns to Farage but it is predicated on a lot of things going wrong for Labour and Farage mounting a hostile takeover of the Tories.

    If Labour fail then I do not see people turning back to the usual suspects in the Tory Party in any great hurry - because they have proven themselves to be useless in government. Particularly Braverman and Badenoch. With Farage at the helm though, promising a reinvented party and a hard line on immigration, etc? Yes, I could see it, as much as I don’t want it.

    We are still in the realm of fantasy politics but then this time four years ago we wouldn’t have predicted a defeated Trump winning the GOP nomination for President and mounting a real challenge to the incumbent, so…
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    Carnyx said:

    isam said:
    There are some words I stumble over. I would not be impressed by anyone who thought the less of my argument for a few extra seconds.

    Of course, if one is only concerned with presentation, rather than, say, content, or truth, or logic, or those tired old things, one might feel entirely free to sneer at someone for having a stammer, or a trip of the tongue.
    Oh wonderful you!

    Of course content of character etc is more important, although Sir Keir is a dishonest sneak who devalues words such as "principle" and "integrity", but unfortunately presentation and charisma do play a part, and I think Starmer's stiff, awkward manner will be a negative for Labour during the campaign/in the debates
    And don’t you like to tell us about it…
    Sorry

    What is it we are allowed to talk about on here again

    NOT

    The most exciting thing to happen in the history of technology
    The most outrageous idea in human sexual definition since the dawn of time
    Anything that might cast the Leader of the Opposition in a bad light
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    Omnium said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
    After all, our Greatest Ever Prime Minister® wasn't renowned for getting to the end of a coherent sentence, ever.

    But he Had Charisma and Delivered Brexit, so that's fine.
    Boris was an untrustworthy lying shit (and I wasn't even married to him) but he was a funny untrustworthy lying shit. Worth a lot in my book.
    ‘Funny’ is such a subjective thing.
    I always found his heavily signalled overworked or underworked zingers followed by an expectation that everyone would be amused & charmed distinctly unfunny, so that’s a no redeeming qualities from me.
    “There are no disasters, only opportunities. And, indeed, opportunities for fresh
    disasters “.

    You don’t find that funny?
    Not really. What does it even mean?
    I suppose I might conjure up a grim rictus at the irony of BJ having a bit of a laff about disasters.

    Still, speaking of rictus smiles and exPMs, just had Gordy Broon on C4 going on about how terrible & damaging child poverty was in the UK. Thank goodness we listened to him in 2014, think how much worse it could have been.
    It wasn't that Boris necessarily did comedy routines, but one knew he had a sense of humour. An early speech referencing Huskisson's violent death due to Stevenson's rocket (back in the halcyon days) was funny because Boris accidentally made himself laugh. I don't think Truss is renowned for her sense of humour, though she seems quite a sport. Sunak doesn’t have a detectable sense of humour. Nor does Starmer.
    Truss is just insane
    Starmer seems like he's hiding a sense of humour somewhere
    Sunak won't share
    Starmer seems to be funnier in private than public, which is unhelpful for him. Truss I think had quite a decent sense of humour. May showed herself to have decent comic timing after the Queen’s death. Neither Cameron nor Clegg nor Brown had the humour gene. Blair had his moments. Major had it. Thatcher didn’t.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    TimS said:

    Omnium said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:
    What's a tech blo blobber? #PMQs

    SKS Fans please translate!
    He was trying to say "bro" and he thought, I sound ridiculous, so he then tried to say "brother" and he did.

    Does this mean he is not our next PM? Probably not.
    After all, our Greatest Ever Prime Minister® wasn't renowned for getting to the end of a coherent sentence, ever.

    But he Had Charisma and Delivered Brexit, so that's fine.
    Boris was an untrustworthy lying shit (and I wasn't even married to him) but he was a funny untrustworthy lying shit. Worth a lot in my book.
    ‘Funny’ is such a subjective thing.
    I always found his heavily signalled overworked or underworked zingers followed by an expectation that everyone would be amused & charmed distinctly unfunny, so that’s a no redeeming qualities from me.
    “There are no disasters, only opportunities. And, indeed, opportunities for fresh
    disasters “.

    You don’t find that funny?
    Not really. What does it even mean?
    I suppose I might conjure up a grim rictus at the irony of BJ having a bit of a laff about disasters.

    Still, speaking of rictus smiles and exPMs, just had Gordy Broon on C4 going on about how terrible & damaging child poverty was in the UK. Thank goodness we listened to him in 2014, think how much worse it could have been.
    It wasn't that Boris necessarily did comedy routines, but one knew he had a sense of humour. An early speech referencing Huskisson's violent death due to Stevenson's rocket (back in the halcyon days) was funny because Boris accidentally made himself laugh. I don't think Truss is renowned for her sense of humour, though she seems quite a sport. Sunak doesn’t have a detectable sense of humour. Nor does Starmer.
    Truss is just insane
    Starmer seems like he's hiding a sense of humour somewhere
    Sunak won't share
    Starmer seems to be funnier in private than public, which is unhelpful for him. Truss I think had quite a decent sense of humour. May showed herself to have decent comic timing after the Queen’s death. Neither Cameron nor Clegg nor Brown had the humour gene. Blair had his moments. Major had it. Thatcher didn’t.
    I think Cameron could do a decent cutting line, like his 'not like we're brothers' jibe to Miliband, but it's a kind of top boy bullying humour perhaps. Truss I don't know but she has a cheeky grin.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Apparently the man detained for shooting Fico is 71 years old.

    I think we can start to rule out the possibility of professional assassins.

    The alleged name and identity is being fairly widely shared on social media
    Apparently an anti-violence campaigner.

    https://x.com/ianbremmer/status/1790790908381905294?s=46
    And a reply to the tweet:

    "Wow. Looks like Slovak PM Robert Fico's reported assailant, writer Juraj Cintula, was associated with pro-Russian paramilitary group Slovenskí Branci (SB). Their leader was even trained by Russian ex-Spetsnaz soldiers."

    https://twitter.com/panyiszabolcs/status/1790789652078526939
    I very much dislike words like "associated", because they can mean "really closely involved with", or "knows someone who is a member".
    The joys of the english language.

    I like how something being outstanding could be good or bad, based on context.
    Sanction can mean allow or disallow
This discussion has been closed.