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The Swinney slump continues – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,733
edited May 10 in General
The Swinney slump continues – politicalbetting.com

?NEW Scottish Westminster VI for @TheScotsman?Labour lead the SNP for first time in a Savanta poll.?LAB 37% (+2)??SNP 33% (-2)?CON 17% (-2)?LD 7% (+1)??Other 6% (+1)1,080 Scottish adults, 3-8 May(change from 6-11 Oct '23) pic.twitter.com/DW2TSzve9m

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  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,223
    First like Arsenal.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,460
    At the risk of being accused of Scotch Expertry by our resident social media policeman does this not reflect more the circumstances of his predecessor’s departure than the shortcomings of the incumbent?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,803
    I was here first but choked - like Arsenal
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,120
    DougSeal said:

    At the risk of being accused of Scotch Expertry by our resident social media policeman does this not reflect more the circumstances of his predecessor’s departure than the shortcomings of the incumbent?

    Possibly, but The Swinnster isn't exactly crackling with dragon energy big ideas. He doesn’t seem that arsed about Scottish independence either.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,646
    If Labour win Scotland, they'll nail winning the UK!
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,600
    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,680
    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    There are two other pro-Independence parties, and we're nearly ten years from the Referendum now, with the prospect of a future referendum currently feeling remote, and the SNP not presenting any realistic strategy for achieving independence that people could vote for.

    So you could see why someone's support for Independence might begin to feel somewhat academic, and not the sole driver of voting intention, as it was in 2015, say.

    But that support for Independence hasn't gone away, and it's one capable politician away from reinvigorating the SNP.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,646
    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    I suppose there must be a similar gap between SDLP or SF voters in NI, and those who want a United Ireland.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,300
    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Eurovision: The Netherlands' entry Joost Klein stopped from rehearsing over 'incident'
    https://news.sky.com/story/eurovision-the-netherlands-entry-joost-klein-stopped-from-rehearsing-over-incident-13132862

    It's going to be fun as the incident seems to be the press conference where when the Israel contestant was asked "Why should you be allowed to appear?" the EBU said unfair question and Joost said - seems perfectly reasonable to ask and should be answered..

    Worth remembering that Greta Thunberg is part of the people outside protesting about Israel's participation...
    Has Greta ever protested about Russia's illegal invasion, mass-murder and imperialist expansion in Ukraine?
    Yep, even been to Kyiv to support the Ukranian regime.

    https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/29/7409150/
    The great irony is that no one has done more for the move to renewables in Europe than Putin with his invasion of Ukraine.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,315
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Eurovision: The Netherlands' entry Joost Klein stopped from rehearsing over 'incident'
    https://news.sky.com/story/eurovision-the-netherlands-entry-joost-klein-stopped-from-rehearsing-over-incident-13132862

    It's going to be fun as the incident seems to be the press conference where when the Israel contestant was asked "Why should you be allowed to appear?" the EBU said unfair question and Joost said - seems perfectly reasonable to ask and should be answered..

    Worth remembering that Greta Thunberg is part of the people outside protesting about Israel's participation...
    Has Greta ever protested about Russia's illegal invasion, mass-murder and imperialist expansion in Ukraine?
    Yep, even been to Kyiv to support the Ukranian regime.

    https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/29/7409150/
    The great irony is that no one has done more for the move to renewables in Europe than Putin with his invasion of Ukraine.
    It's one of many short-sighted aspects of this war from Russia's POV.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,599
    The most recent bars to the left always makes me do a double take. I'd stick them on the right, personally and do a stronger differentiation of the old data, e.g. just outlines rather than shaded a but lighter. YMMV
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,839

    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    There are two other pro-Independence parties, and we're nearly ten years from the Referendum now, with the prospect of a future referendum currently feeling remote, and the SNP not presenting any realistic strategy for achieving independence that people could vote for.

    So you could see why someone's support for Independence might begin to feel somewhat academic, and not the sole driver of voting intention, as it was in 2015, say.

    But that support for Independence hasn't gone away, and it's one capable politician away from reinvigorating the SNP.
    It's driven partially by what's happening down south. The emergence of a sensible Labour Party down south and the seeming likelihood of the Tories taking one in their hoop when the election comes around is giving people a sense that independence isn't the only route out of the stupidity that's dominated Westminster for a long time. It's Starmer with the weight of the union on his shoulders right now, before he's even in power. The best polls Yes has had in recent years were in the immediate wake of Truss. Sunak has proved less repugnant to Scots, and Starmer better still.
    You'll see Yes drop further in the Labour honeymoon, should that come. You'll see Yes consistently below 40% for some months, barring events.
  • Options
    DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    DougSeal said:

    At the risk of being accused of Scotch Expertry by our resident social media policeman does this not reflect more the circumstances of his predecessor’s departure than the shortcomings of the incumbent?

    Calling non-Scots who express informed or not so informed opinions about Scottish politics "Scotch experts" is just saying "Look at this chip on my shoulder".
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,839
    Donkeys said:

    DougSeal said:

    At the risk of being accused of Scotch Expertry by our resident social media policeman does this not reflect more the circumstances of his predecessor’s departure than the shortcomings of the incumbent?

    Calling non-Scots who express informed or not so informed opinions about Scottish politics "Scotch experts" is just saying "Look at this chip on my shoulder".
    Hello it's the Chip Expert
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,680
    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    There are two other pro-Independence parties, and we're nearly ten years from the Referendum now, with the prospect of a future referendum currently feeling remote, and the SNP not presenting any realistic strategy for achieving independence that people could vote for.

    So you could see why someone's support for Independence might begin to feel somewhat academic, and not the sole driver of voting intention, as it was in 2015, say.

    But that support for Independence hasn't gone away, and it's one capable politician away from reinvigorating the SNP.
    It's driven partially by what's happening down south. The emergence of a sensible Labour Party down south and the seeming likelihood of the Tories taking one in their hoop when the election comes around is giving people a sense that independence isn't the only route out of the stupidity that's dominated Westminster for a long time. It's Starmer with the weight of the union on his shoulders right now, before he's even in power. The best polls Yes has had in recent years were in the immediate wake of Truss. Sunak has proved less repugnant to Scots, and Starmer better still.
    You'll see Yes drop further in the Labour honeymoon, should that come. You'll see Yes consistently below 40% for some months, barring events.
    Is that 40% excluding don't know?
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,853
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Eurovision: The Netherlands' entry Joost Klein stopped from rehearsing over 'incident'
    https://news.sky.com/story/eurovision-the-netherlands-entry-joost-klein-stopped-from-rehearsing-over-incident-13132862

    It's going to be fun as the incident seems to be the press conference where when the Israel contestant was asked "Why should you be allowed to appear?" the EBU said unfair question and Joost said - seems perfectly reasonable to ask and should be answered..

    Worth remembering that Greta Thunberg is part of the people outside protesting about Israel's participation...
    Has Greta ever protested about Russia's illegal invasion, mass-murder and imperialist expansion in Ukraine?
    Yep, even been to Kyiv to support the Ukranian regime.

    https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/29/7409150/
    The great irony is that no one has done more for the move to renewables in Europe than Putin with his invasion of Ukraine.
    Putin's one and only achievement should be jumping out a window. Plummeting to his death from the drop from the ground floor.

  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,839

    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    There are two other pro-Independence parties, and we're nearly ten years from the Referendum now, with the prospect of a future referendum currently feeling remote, and the SNP not presenting any realistic strategy for achieving independence that people could vote for.

    So you could see why someone's support for Independence might begin to feel somewhat academic, and not the sole driver of voting intention, as it was in 2015, say.

    But that support for Independence hasn't gone away, and it's one capable politician away from reinvigorating the SNP.
    It's driven partially by what's happening down south. The emergence of a sensible Labour Party down south and the seeming likelihood of the Tories taking one in their hoop when the election comes around is giving people a sense that independence isn't the only route out of the stupidity that's dominated Westminster for a long time. It's Starmer with the weight of the union on his shoulders right now, before he's even in power. The best polls Yes has had in recent years were in the immediate wake of Truss. Sunak has proved less repugnant to Scots, and Starmer better still.
    You'll see Yes drop further in the Labour honeymoon, should that come. You'll see Yes consistently below 40% for some months, barring events.
    Is that 40% excluding don't know?
    Consistently below 40% including don't knows is my prediction. The recent average is about 43% yes and 47% no. I'm predicting a (temporary?) 5pp swing away from yes for, let's say, at least six months after a Labour majority, should that election result come about.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,952

    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    I suppose there must be a similar gap between SDLP or SF voters in NI, and those who want a United Ireland.
    There it is the other way round - SF votes who don’t want reunification.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,848
    Saying YES to Indy when it is so impossibly remote a prospect is like playing with the casino’s money. Costs you nothing to say it. I’m slightly surprised more, in fact, are not saying it

    Suggests opinion is deeply entrenched
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,182
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    There are two other pro-Independence parties, and we're nearly ten years from the Referendum now, with the prospect of a future referendum currently feeling remote, and the SNP not presenting any realistic strategy for achieving independence that people could vote for.

    So you could see why someone's support for Independence might begin to feel somewhat academic, and not the sole driver of voting intention, as it was in 2015, say.

    But that support for Independence hasn't gone away, and it's one capable politician away from reinvigorating the SNP.
    It's driven partially by what's happening down south. The emergence of a sensible Labour Party down south and the seeming likelihood of the Tories taking one in their hoop when the election comes around is giving people a sense that independence isn't the only route out of the stupidity that's dominated Westminster for a long time. It's Starmer with the weight of the union on his shoulders right now, before he's even in power. The best polls Yes has had in recent years were in the immediate wake of Truss. Sunak has proved less repugnant to Scots, and Starmer better still.
    You'll see Yes drop further in the Labour honeymoon, should that come. You'll see Yes consistently below 40% for some months, barring events.
    Is that 40% excluding don't know?
    Consistently below 40% including don't knows is my prediction. The recent average is about 43% yes and 47% no. I'm predicting a (temporary?) 5pp swing away from yes for, let's say, at least six months after a Labour majority, should that election result come about.
    Mm. How far can SKS go to the right, though, before that has an effect? He's practically bounding along Peacehaven beach with binoculars and phoning up Border Force every time he sees a bairn on a blow-up replica of DougSeal.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,952
    Donkeys said:

    DougSeal said:

    At the risk of being accused of Scotch Expertry by our resident social media policeman does this not reflect more the circumstances of his predecessor’s departure than the shortcomings of the incumbent?

    Calling non-Scots who express informed or not so informed opinions about Scottish politics "Scotch experts" is just saying "Look at this chip on my shoulder".
    No, they are quite balanced. Two chips. One on each shoulder.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,848
    I have just seen indescribably wondrous things

    Dunno how to summarise. Let’s do a picture quiz. TWO virtual glasses of Primitivo to anyone who can guess what this is and why it is SO amazing


  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,182

    Donkeys said:

    DougSeal said:

    At the risk of being accused of Scotch Expertry by our resident social media policeman does this not reflect more the circumstances of his predecessor’s departure than the shortcomings of the incumbent?

    Calling non-Scots who express informed or not so informed opinions about Scottish politics "Scotch experts" is just saying "Look at this chip on my shoulder".
    No, they are quite balanced. Two chips. One on each shoulder.
    Tut. Just showing your expertise again. The correct, Glaswegian, expression is 'a fish supper on each shoulder'.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,853
    Leon said:

    Saying YES to Indy when it is so impossibly remote a prospect is like playing with the casino’s money. Costs you nothing to say it. I’m slightly surprised more, in fact, are not saying it

    Suggests opinion is deeply entrenched

    Governments of yesteryear used to have something they called 'economic responsibility'. It's gone very very deeply out of fashion, but that was once a constraint. (And that constraint was very firmly not the stupid bodies that now exist which claim that ground)
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,535
    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    There are two other pro-Independence parties, and we're nearly ten years from the Referendum now, with the prospect of a future referendum currently feeling remote, and the SNP not presenting any realistic strategy for achieving independence that people could vote for.

    So you could see why someone's support for Independence might begin to feel somewhat academic, and not the sole driver of voting intention, as it was in 2015, say.

    But that support for Independence hasn't gone away, and it's one capable politician away from reinvigorating the SNP.
    It's driven partially by what's happening down south. The emergence of a sensible Labour Party down south and the seeming likelihood of the Tories taking one in their hoop when the election comes around is giving people a sense that independence isn't the only route out of the stupidity that's dominated Westminster for a long time. It's Starmer with the weight of the union on his shoulders right now, before he's even in power. The best polls Yes has had in recent years were in the immediate wake of Truss. Sunak has proved less repugnant to Scots, and Starmer better still.
    You'll see Yes drop further in the Labour honeymoon, should that come. You'll see Yes consistently below 40% for some months, barring events.
    A Tory government under an Old Etonian 'born to rule' buffoon yanking Scotland out of the EU against its wishes - it's hard to think of more fertile ground for Sindy than that. Course you need a vote on it and that was 'Computer says No'. SNP leader looks like a tough gig for the next few years.
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,400
    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    There are two other pro-Independence parties, and we're nearly ten years from the Referendum now, with the prospect of a future referendum currently feeling remote, and the SNP not presenting any realistic strategy for achieving independence that people could vote for.

    So you could see why someone's support for Independence might begin to feel somewhat academic, and not the sole driver of voting intention, as it was in 2015, say.

    But that support for Independence hasn't gone away, and it's one capable politician away from reinvigorating the SNP.
    It's driven partially by what's happening down south. The emergence of a sensible Labour Party down south and the seeming likelihood of the Tories taking one in their hoop when the election comes around is giving people a sense that independence isn't the only route out of the stupidity that's dominated Westminster for a long time. It's Starmer with the weight of the union on his shoulders right now, before he's even in power. The best polls Yes has had in recent years were in the immediate wake of Truss. Sunak has proved less repugnant to Scots, and Starmer better still.
    You'll see Yes drop further in the Labour honeymoon, should that come. You'll see Yes consistently below 40% for some months, barring events.
    Isn't it just about basic competence and trust. People who would quite like independence have to live in Scotland and be governed by the SNP - and recent years have seen a string of pratfalls and policies a chunk of the independence-minded don't like.

    So they switch to Labour or another party until the SNP gets its act together and shows it can be trusted again.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,807

    If Labour win Scotland, they'll nail winning the UK!

    Just like in 2010 then.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,756
    Perhaps makes sense, to give new (in one sense) Scottish First Minister at least one Truss-unit (= time it takes to wilt a head of lettuce) BEFORE declaring a Swinney Slump?

    Especially as current polling is likely LESS about him, and MORE about Sturgeon+Murrell+Humza.

    However, by this summer, that excuse will be inoperative.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,853
    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    There are two other pro-Independence parties, and we're nearly ten years from the Referendum now, with the prospect of a future referendum currently feeling remote, and the SNP not presenting any realistic strategy for achieving independence that people could vote for.

    So you could see why someone's support for Independence might begin to feel somewhat academic, and not the sole driver of voting intention, as it was in 2015, say.

    But that support for Independence hasn't gone away, and it's one capable politician away from reinvigorating the SNP.
    It's driven partially by what's happening down south. The emergence of a sensible Labour Party down south and the seeming likelihood of the Tories taking one in their hoop when the election comes around is giving people a sense that independence isn't the only route out of the stupidity that's dominated Westminster for a long time. It's Starmer with the weight of the union on his shoulders right now, before he's even in power. The best polls Yes has had in recent years were in the immediate wake of Truss. Sunak has proved less repugnant to Scots, and Starmer better still.
    You'll see Yes drop further in the Labour honeymoon, should that come. You'll see Yes consistently below 40% for some months, barring events.
    A Tory government under an Old Etonian 'born to rule' buffoon yanking Scotland out of the EU against its wishes - it's hard to think of more fertile ground for Sindy than that. Course you need a vote on it and that was 'Computer says No'. SNP leader looks like a tough gig for the next few years.
    The whole 'Act of Union' thing guarantees that Scottish wishes might not always prevail. What were they thinking!?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,335
    Protestors storm the Tesla site in Berlin:

    https://x.com/thebrakenet/status/1788883769186783435
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,395
    edited May 10
    Donkeys said:

    Israeli ambassador to the UN Gilad Erdan has today spoken against the proposal to welcome Palestine as a UN member state. When he addressed the countries that support the proposal, can you guess which emotion he referred to? What about which WW2 political leader?

    That's right. "Today", he declared, "You are about to (...) advance the establishment of a Palestinian terror state, which will be led by the Hitler of our times."

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/5/10/israels-war-on-gaza-live-aid-operation-completely-crippled-amid-attacks?update=2892034

    But according to the definition of "anti-Semitism" written by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance - adopted by Britain's three major political parties, as well as the British government - it's "anti-Semitic" to compare "contemporary Israeli policy" to "that of the Nazis".

    So the Hitler emulators are calling the resistance to their Hitlerism horrible types who are just like Hitler, while painting anybody who says they themselves are like Hitler as...also just like Hitler.

    What does this guy who died in the 1940s have to do with anything?

    Ever get the feeling you are being treated like an absolute cretin by a bunch of hypocritical lying c***s?

    Have you heard of Aribet Heim, Alfred Zingler, Johann von Leers, Wilhelm Boerner or Franz Bartel?

    Actual, bona fide members of the actual Nazi party, who were actually employed by Arab nations after the war to help indoctrinate their people with real Jew killing hate
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,635
    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    There are two other pro-Independence parties, and we're nearly ten years from the Referendum now, with the prospect of a future referendum currently feeling remote, and the SNP not presenting any realistic strategy for achieving independence that people could vote for.

    So you could see why someone's support for Independence might begin to feel somewhat academic, and not the sole driver of voting intention, as it was in 2015, say.

    But that support for Independence hasn't gone away, and it's one capable politician away from reinvigorating the SNP.
    It's driven partially by what's happening down south. The emergence of a sensible Labour Party down south and the seeming likelihood of the Tories taking one in their hoop when the election comes around is giving people a sense that independence isn't the only route out of the stupidity that's dominated Westminster for a long time. It's Starmer with the weight of the union on his shoulders right now, before he's even in power. The best polls Yes has had in recent years were in the immediate wake of Truss. Sunak has proved less repugnant to Scots, and Starmer better still.
    You'll see Yes drop further in the Labour honeymoon, should that come. You'll see Yes consistently below 40% for some months, barring events.
    A Tory government under an Old Etonian 'born to rule' buffoon yanking Scotland out of the EU against its wishes - it's hard to think of more fertile ground for Sindy than that. Course you need a vote on it and that was 'Computer says No'. SNP leader looks like a tough gig for the next few years.
    The whole 'Act of Union' thing guarantees that Scottish wishes might not always prevail. What were they thinking!?
    About the size of the bribes they'd been paid, in the case of the Scottish Estates.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,646
    edited May 10
    Carnyx said:

    Donkeys said:

    DougSeal said:

    At the risk of being accused of Scotch Expertry by our resident social media policeman does this not reflect more the circumstances of his predecessor’s departure than the shortcomings of the incumbent?

    Calling non-Scots who express informed or not so informed opinions about Scottish politics "Scotch experts" is just saying "Look at this chip on my shoulder".
    No, they are quite balanced. Two chips. One on each shoulder.
    Tut. Just showing your expertise again. The correct, Glaswegian, expression is 'a fish supper on each shoulder'.
    Most incredulous expression I got from a Glaswegian was the ticket guy at St Enoch Subway station, when I asked him I wanted tickets to do the whole route in BOTH directions on the same day, back in 2017.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,635

    If Labour win Scotland, they'll nail winning the UK!

    To win, they need to beat a bunch of useless pseudo-nationalists who've been in power for far too long, since the last election have had one leader who is an alleged criminal, one leader who is completely useless and one who just seems a bit meh, who are hopelessly confused on policy and seem to be ditching all their ideas as unworkable except the ones that won't work.

    They will also have to beat the SNP.

    (Be honest, that wasn't the punchline you expected, was it?)
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,853
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    There are two other pro-Independence parties, and we're nearly ten years from the Referendum now, with the prospect of a future referendum currently feeling remote, and the SNP not presenting any realistic strategy for achieving independence that people could vote for.

    So you could see why someone's support for Independence might begin to feel somewhat academic, and not the sole driver of voting intention, as it was in 2015, say.

    But that support for Independence hasn't gone away, and it's one capable politician away from reinvigorating the SNP.
    It's driven partially by what's happening down south. The emergence of a sensible Labour Party down south and the seeming likelihood of the Tories taking one in their hoop when the election comes around is giving people a sense that independence isn't the only route out of the stupidity that's dominated Westminster for a long time. It's Starmer with the weight of the union on his shoulders right now, before he's even in power. The best polls Yes has had in recent years were in the immediate wake of Truss. Sunak has proved less repugnant to Scots, and Starmer better still.
    You'll see Yes drop further in the Labour honeymoon, should that come. You'll see Yes consistently below 40% for some months, barring events.
    A Tory government under an Old Etonian 'born to rule' buffoon yanking Scotland out of the EU against its wishes - it's hard to think of more fertile ground for Sindy than that. Course you need a vote on it and that was 'Computer says No'. SNP leader looks like a tough gig for the next few years.
    The whole 'Act of Union' thing guarantees that Scottish wishes might not always prevail. What were they thinking!?
    About the size of the bribes they'd been paid, in the case of the Scottish Estates.
    Go on
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,635
    edited May 10
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    There are two other pro-Independence parties, and we're nearly ten years from the Referendum now, with the prospect of a future referendum currently feeling remote, and the SNP not presenting any realistic strategy for achieving independence that people could vote for.

    So you could see why someone's support for Independence might begin to feel somewhat academic, and not the sole driver of voting intention, as it was in 2015, say.

    But that support for Independence hasn't gone away, and it's one capable politician away from reinvigorating the SNP.
    It's driven partially by what's happening down south. The emergence of a sensible Labour Party down south and the seeming likelihood of the Tories taking one in their hoop when the election comes around is giving people a sense that independence isn't the only route out of the stupidity that's dominated Westminster for a long time. It's Starmer with the weight of the union on his shoulders right now, before he's even in power. The best polls Yes has had in recent years were in the immediate wake of Truss. Sunak has proved less repugnant to Scots, and Starmer better still.
    You'll see Yes drop further in the Labour honeymoon, should that come. You'll see Yes consistently below 40% for some months, barring events.
    A Tory government under an Old Etonian 'born to rule' buffoon yanking Scotland out of the EU against its wishes - it's hard to think of more fertile ground for Sindy than that. Course you need a vote on it and that was 'Computer says No'. SNP leader looks like a tough gig for the next few years.
    The whole 'Act of Union' thing guarantees that Scottish wishes might not always prevail. What were they thinking!?
    About the size of the bribes they'd been paid, in the case of the Scottish Estates.
    Go on
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme#Consequences_of_failure

    There were more direct bribes as well - IIRC Montrose was paid about a grand.

    It should be stressed this was the normal way of doing politics in both England and Scotland at the time.
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,561
    Copied from previous thread:

    Off topic, but of interest to many here: :The United States received 1.8 million asylum seekers in 2022, compared with 19,000 a decade earlier.​ Asylum seekers in Britain jumped nearly ninefold, to 167,000. Worldwide, the numbers mushroomed from 950,000 in 2012 to more than 6 million by June of last year. This is on top of more than 35 million people recognized as refugees by the U.N. High Commission for Refugees, as well as over 5 million Venezuelans who, though not counted as asylum seekers, have fled their country and are mostly scattered across Latin America."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/05/09/britain-asylum-eu-biden-migration/

    Eduardo Porter notes that the 1951 UN convention "didn’t anticipate the internet, which has helped migrants navigate journeys that would have been impossible a quarter-century ago. The last overhaul of U.S. immigration law came about in 1990, before the advent of the web — long before TikTok videos explained how best to navigate the Darién Gap between Colombia and Panama and Google Translate helped Chinese migrants as they crossed Mexico."

    There are links in the original column. I can supply them to anyone who wants to investigate further. Or you can just get the column for yourself.
  • Options
    NickyBreakspearNickyBreakspear Posts: 699
    This weeks average polling



    Reform heading down?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,646

    Donkeys said:

    Israeli ambassador to the UN Gilad Erdan has today spoken against the proposal to welcome Palestine as a UN member state. When he addressed the countries that support the proposal, can you guess which emotion he referred to? What about which WW2 political leader?

    That's right. "Today", he declared, "You are about to (...) advance the establishment of a Palestinian terror state, which will be led by the Hitler of our times."

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/5/10/israels-war-on-gaza-live-aid-operation-completely-crippled-amid-attacks?update=2892034

    But according to the definition of "anti-Semitism" written by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance - adopted by Britain's three major political parties, as well as the British government - it's "anti-Semitic" to compare "contemporary Israeli policy" to "that of the Nazis".

    So the Hitler emulators are calling the resistance to their Hitlerism horrible types who are just like Hitler, while painting anybody who says they themselves are like Hitler as...also just like Hitler.

    What does this guy who died in the 1940s have to do with anything?

    Ever get the feeling you are being treated like an absolute cretin by a bunch of hypocritical lying c***s?

    Have you heard of Aribet Heim, Alfred Zingler, Johann von Leers, Wilhelm Boerner or Franz Bartel?

    Actual, bona fide members of the actual Nazi party, who were actually employed by Arab nations after the war to help indoctrinate their people with real Jew killing hate
    Who was it who indoctrinated the IDF with real Arab-killing hate?
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,680
    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    There are two other pro-Independence parties, and we're nearly ten years from the Referendum now, with the prospect of a future referendum currently feeling remote, and the SNP not presenting any realistic strategy for achieving independence that people could vote for.

    So you could see why someone's support for Independence might begin to feel somewhat academic, and not the sole driver of voting intention, as it was in 2015, say.

    But that support for Independence hasn't gone away, and it's one capable politician away from reinvigorating the SNP.
    It's driven partially by what's happening down south. The emergence of a sensible Labour Party down south and the seeming likelihood of the Tories taking one in their hoop when the election comes around is giving people a sense that independence isn't the only route out of the stupidity that's dominated Westminster for a long time. It's Starmer with the weight of the union on his shoulders right now, before he's even in power. The best polls Yes has had in recent years were in the immediate wake of Truss. Sunak has proved less repugnant to Scots, and Starmer better still.
    You'll see Yes drop further in the Labour honeymoon, should that come. You'll see Yes consistently below 40% for some months, barring events.
    A Tory government under an Old Etonian 'born to rule' buffoon yanking Scotland out of the EU against its wishes - it's hard to think of more fertile ground for Sindy than that. Course you need a vote on it and that was 'Computer says No'. SNP leader looks like a tough gig for the next few years.
    The polling, however, didn't show such a simple pattern. At first the vote for Brexit was followed by a reduction of support for Scottish independence, but then the reverse when the impasse made Westminster as a whole look dysfunctional.

    Early Covid was good for Scottish independence support, but the vaccine rollout seems to have been good for the Union. Sorry for Scottish independence was boosted when the Supreme Court ruled Westminster had to approve, then subsided again and has more recently narrowed.

    I don't see any particular evidence for support for Scottish independence falling away as Labour's victory at Westminster is come to be seen as inevitable. But there may well be a reaction to the election result itself.

    The strongest support for No came around the time of the 2017GE, perhaps at the peak of Jeremy Corbyn's popularity. So Starmer might need to show a bit of socialist fervour to dampen the enthusiasm for Scottish Independence.
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,395

    Donkeys said:

    Israeli ambassador to the UN Gilad Erdan has today spoken against the proposal to welcome Palestine as a UN member state. When he addressed the countries that support the proposal, can you guess which emotion he referred to? What about which WW2 political leader?

    That's right. "Today", he declared, "You are about to (...) advance the establishment of a Palestinian terror state, which will be led by the Hitler of our times."

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/5/10/israels-war-on-gaza-live-aid-operation-completely-crippled-amid-attacks?update=2892034

    But according to the definition of "anti-Semitism" written by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance - adopted by Britain's three major political parties, as well as the British government - it's "anti-Semitic" to compare "contemporary Israeli policy" to "that of the Nazis".

    So the Hitler emulators are calling the resistance to their Hitlerism horrible types who are just like Hitler, while painting anybody who says they themselves are like Hitler as...also just like Hitler.

    What does this guy who died in the 1940s have to do with anything?

    Ever get the feeling you are being treated like an absolute cretin by a bunch of hypocritical lying c***s?

    Have you heard of Aribet Heim, Alfred Zingler, Johann von Leers, Wilhelm Boerner or Franz Bartel?

    Actual, bona fide members of the actual Nazi party, who were actually employed by Arab nations after the war to help indoctrinate their people with real Jew killing hate
    Who was it who indoctrinated the IDF with real Arab-killing hate?
    Largely the October 7th rapists and murderers

    Israel had managed to advance relations with a number of Arab states before that
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,732

    This weeks average polling



    Reform heading down?

    Nigel Farage please explain.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,853
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    There are two other pro-Independence parties, and we're nearly ten years from the Referendum now, with the prospect of a future referendum currently feeling remote, and the SNP not presenting any realistic strategy for achieving independence that people could vote for.

    So you could see why someone's support for Independence might begin to feel somewhat academic, and not the sole driver of voting intention, as it was in 2015, say.

    But that support for Independence hasn't gone away, and it's one capable politician away from reinvigorating the SNP.
    It's driven partially by what's happening down south. The emergence of a sensible Labour Party down south and the seeming likelihood of the Tories taking one in their hoop when the election comes around is giving people a sense that independence isn't the only route out of the stupidity that's dominated Westminster for a long time. It's Starmer with the weight of the union on his shoulders right now, before he's even in power. The best polls Yes has had in recent years were in the immediate wake of Truss. Sunak has proved less repugnant to Scots, and Starmer better still.
    You'll see Yes drop further in the Labour honeymoon, should that come. You'll see Yes consistently below 40% for some months, barring events.
    A Tory government under an Old Etonian 'born to rule' buffoon yanking Scotland out of the EU against its wishes - it's hard to think of more fertile ground for Sindy than that. Course you need a vote on it and that was 'Computer says No'. SNP leader looks like a tough gig for the next few years.
    The whole 'Act of Union' thing guarantees that Scottish wishes might not always prevail. What were they thinking!?
    About the size of the bribes they'd been paid, in the case of the Scottish Estates.
    Go on
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme#Consequences_of_failure

    There were more direct bribes as well - IIRC Montrose was paid about a grand.

    It should be stressed this was the normal way of doing politics in both England and Scotland at the time.
    I was somewhat hoping that you'd conjure up something less well known. As you stress, it was normal at the time, and alas has really continued to be fairly normal.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,182

    Carnyx said:

    Donkeys said:

    DougSeal said:

    At the risk of being accused of Scotch Expertry by our resident social media policeman does this not reflect more the circumstances of his predecessor’s departure than the shortcomings of the incumbent?

    Calling non-Scots who express informed or not so informed opinions about Scottish politics "Scotch experts" is just saying "Look at this chip on my shoulder".
    No, they are quite balanced. Two chips. One on each shoulder.
    Tut. Just showing your expertise again. The correct, Glaswegian, expression is 'a fish supper on each shoulder'.
    Most incredulous expression I got from a Glaswegian was the ticket guy at St Enoch Subway station, when I asked him I wanted tickets to do the whole route in BOTH directions on the same day, back in 2017.
    Oh, is that even possible? I thought it only went round one way, deaseal rather than widdershins, but maybe it has been modernised.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,848
    Oh go on. No one interested? Or is it too hard?

    I’ll help. These are runic inscriptions. Yes RUNES. But who wrote them and why?

    If you’re into history it’s a fabulously surprising answer

    Here’s another one. There are several. Nullifico googlissimi!


  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,853

    Donkeys said:

    Israeli ambassador to the UN Gilad Erdan has today spoken against the proposal to welcome Palestine as a UN member state. When he addressed the countries that support the proposal, can you guess which emotion he referred to? What about which WW2 political leader?

    That's right. "Today", he declared, "You are about to (...) advance the establishment of a Palestinian terror state, which will be led by the Hitler of our times."

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/5/10/israels-war-on-gaza-live-aid-operation-completely-crippled-amid-attacks?update=2892034

    But according to the definition of "anti-Semitism" written by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance - adopted by Britain's three major political parties, as well as the British government - it's "anti-Semitic" to compare "contemporary Israeli policy" to "that of the Nazis".

    So the Hitler emulators are calling the resistance to their Hitlerism horrible types who are just like Hitler, while painting anybody who says they themselves are like Hitler as...also just like Hitler.

    What does this guy who died in the 1940s have to do with anything?

    Ever get the feeling you are being treated like an absolute cretin by a bunch of hypocritical lying c***s?

    Have you heard of Aribet Heim, Alfred Zingler, Johann von Leers, Wilhelm Boerner or Franz Bartel?

    Actual, bona fide members of the actual Nazi party, who were actually employed by Arab nations after the war to help indoctrinate their people with real Jew killing hate
    Who was it who indoctrinated the IDF with real Arab-killing hate?
    The Arabs. Whatever Israel's sins, the Arabs have been really rotten neighbours. (Perhaps that is showing signs of change though)
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,680

    This weeks average polling



    Reform heading down?

    Reform heading down and Labour up.

    I do like your chart.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,164
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    There are two other pro-Independence parties, and we're nearly ten years from the Referendum now, with the prospect of a future referendum currently feeling remote, and the SNP not presenting any realistic strategy for achieving independence that people could vote for.

    So you could see why someone's support for Independence might begin to feel somewhat academic, and not the sole driver of voting intention, as it was in 2015, say.

    But that support for Independence hasn't gone away, and it's one capable politician away from reinvigorating the SNP.
    It's driven partially by what's happening down south. The emergence of a sensible Labour Party down south and the seeming likelihood of the Tories taking one in their hoop when the election comes around is giving people a sense that independence isn't the only route out of the stupidity that's dominated Westminster for a long time. It's Starmer with the weight of the union on his shoulders right now, before he's even in power. The best polls Yes has had in recent years were in the immediate wake of Truss. Sunak has proved less repugnant to Scots, and Starmer better still.
    You'll see Yes drop further in the Labour honeymoon, should that come. You'll see Yes consistently below 40% for some months, barring events.
    A Tory government under an Old Etonian 'born to rule' buffoon yanking Scotland out of the EU against its wishes - it's hard to think of more fertile ground for Sindy than that. Course you need a vote on it and that was 'Computer says No'. SNP leader looks like a tough gig for the next few years.
    The whole 'Act of Union' thing guarantees that Scottish wishes might not always prevail. What were they thinking!?
    About the size of the bribes they'd been paid, in the case of the Scottish Estates.
    Go on
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme#Consequences_of_failure

    There were more direct bribes as well - IIRC Montrose was paid about a grand.

    It should be stressed this was the normal way of doing politics in both England and Scotland at the time.
    What a parcel of rogues in a nation!
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,182
    edited May 10
    Leon said:

    Oh go on. No one interested? Or is it too hard?

    I’ll help. These are runic inscriptions. Yes RUNES. But who wrote them and why?

    If you’re into history it’s a fabulously surprising answer

    Here’s another one. There are several. Nullifico googlissimi!


    THat's much clearer - I did wonder about runes but thought it's some prat called Hurrell or Hurren.

    They'll be Danes or Orcadians en route to the Holy Land, and doing a bit if sightseeing/allying/plundering en route. Wonder if it's the same lot as in the Orkneyinga Saga, which is partly about just such an adventure holiday? It's a long time since I read i t, so no idea if the places match up. But you won't let me google.

  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,147
    So rumour from Malmo is that the Israeli contestant was continually winding up Joost Klein back stage to the point that Joost or someone in the Dutch team punched her...
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,848
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Oh go on. No one interested? Or is it too hard?

    I’ll help. These are runic inscriptions. Yes RUNES. But who wrote them and why?

    If you’re into history it’s a fabulously surprising answer

    Here’s another one. There are several. Nullifico googlissimi!


    THat's much clearer - I did wonder about runes but thought it's some prat called Hurrell or Hurren.

    They'll be Danes or Orcadians en route to the Holy Land, and doing a bit if sightseeing/allying/plundering en route. Wonder if it's the same lot as in the Orkneyinga Saga, which is partly about just such an adventure holiday? It's a long time since I read i t, so no idea if the places match up. But you won't let me google.

    Close but no cigarillo

    The answer surprised me completely. 7th century

    No googling it ruins the fun

    Ok here’s a big clue. The first one looks less obviously runic - as you noticed. That’s because it incorporates Roman lettering styles albeit it is in runes… oooooh
  • Options
    FPT:
    Dura_Ace said:

    Motorcycle licensing is a national competency anyway. You can ride a moped at 14 in Portugal and a 125 on a car licence in Austria, etc.

    My understanding is member states can have additional entitlements alongside the EU system, like the CBT in the UK, but they're obliged to adopt the A1/A2/A 'third license' system and any national additions are not recognised outside of that one state - hence why it's never been possible to ride in the EU on a CBT, and why that 14 year old Portuguese kid can't being their scooter to the UK.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,600
    eek said:

    So rumour from Malmo is that the Israeli contestant was continually winding up Joost Klein back stage to the point that Joost or someone in the Dutch team punched her...

    Winding him up by being openly Jewish?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,635

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    The gap between those who want Scotland to be an independeng country and those expecting to vote SNP is quite remarkable, given it is essentially that party's USP.

    There are two other pro-Independence parties, and we're nearly ten years from the Referendum now, with the prospect of a future referendum currently feeling remote, and the SNP not presenting any realistic strategy for achieving independence that people could vote for.

    So you could see why someone's support for Independence might begin to feel somewhat academic, and not the sole driver of voting intention, as it was in 2015, say.

    But that support for Independence hasn't gone away, and it's one capable politician away from reinvigorating the SNP.
    It's driven partially by what's happening down south. The emergence of a sensible Labour Party down south and the seeming likelihood of the Tories taking one in their hoop when the election comes around is giving people a sense that independence isn't the only route out of the stupidity that's dominated Westminster for a long time. It's Starmer with the weight of the union on his shoulders right now, before he's even in power. The best polls Yes has had in recent years were in the immediate wake of Truss. Sunak has proved less repugnant to Scots, and Starmer better still.
    You'll see Yes drop further in the Labour honeymoon, should that come. You'll see Yes consistently below 40% for some months, barring events.
    A Tory government under an Old Etonian 'born to rule' buffoon yanking Scotland out of the EU against its wishes - it's hard to think of more fertile ground for Sindy than that. Course you need a vote on it and that was 'Computer says No'. SNP leader looks like a tough gig for the next few years.
    The whole 'Act of Union' thing guarantees that Scottish wishes might not always prevail. What were they thinking!?
    About the size of the bribes they'd been paid, in the case of the Scottish Estates.
    Go on
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme#Consequences_of_failure

    There were more direct bribes as well - IIRC Montrose was paid about a grand.

    It should be stressed this was the normal way of doing politics in both England and Scotland at the time.
    What a parcel of rogues in a nation!
    #feeltheBurns.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,047
    edited May 10
    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    So rumour from Malmo is that the Israeli contestant was continually winding up Joost Klein back stage to the point that Joost or someone in the Dutch team punched her...

    Winding him up by being openly Jewish?
    The rumour is the Israeli guards mocked Joosts dead parents, so he hit one of the escorts, not the singer.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,153
    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    So rumour from Malmo is that the Israeli contestant was continually winding up Joost Klein back stage to the point that Joost or someone in the Dutch team punched her...

    Winding him up by being openly Jewish?
    Maybe winding him up by continually jumping to conclusions without any evidence, based purely on prejudice?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,646
    Omnium said:

    Donkeys said:

    Israeli ambassador to the UN Gilad Erdan has today spoken against the proposal to welcome Palestine as a UN member state. When he addressed the countries that support the proposal, can you guess which emotion he referred to? What about which WW2 political leader?

    That's right. "Today", he declared, "You are about to (...) advance the establishment of a Palestinian terror state, which will be led by the Hitler of our times."

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/5/10/israels-war-on-gaza-live-aid-operation-completely-crippled-amid-attacks?update=2892034

    But according to the definition of "anti-Semitism" written by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance - adopted by Britain's three major political parties, as well as the British government - it's "anti-Semitic" to compare "contemporary Israeli policy" to "that of the Nazis".

    So the Hitler emulators are calling the resistance to their Hitlerism horrible types who are just like Hitler, while painting anybody who says they themselves are like Hitler as...also just like Hitler.

    What does this guy who died in the 1940s have to do with anything?

    Ever get the feeling you are being treated like an absolute cretin by a bunch of hypocritical lying c***s?

    Have you heard of Aribet Heim, Alfred Zingler, Johann von Leers, Wilhelm Boerner or Franz Bartel?

    Actual, bona fide members of the actual Nazi party, who were actually employed by Arab nations after the war to help indoctrinate their people with real Jew killing hate
    Who was it who indoctrinated the IDF with real Arab-killing hate?
    The Arabs. Whatever Israel's sins, the Arabs have been really rotten neighbours. (Perhaps that is showing signs of change though)
    But the Israelis have killed far more Arabs than the Arabs have killed Jews.

    Since 2008, Hamas have killed 2,000 Israelis (including 7/10, natch), but the Israelis have killed over 40,000 Arabs (including the post-7/10 bombardment).

    Pre-7/10, the Israelis killed 6,300 Arabs, while Hamas killed only 310 Jews (ie. from Jan 2008 to Sept 2023).

    (Source - Wikipedia)
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,635
    Typical.

    I put the live stream on for a few minutes and FIRST BALL Graeme van Buuren tosses away his wicket.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,182
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Oh go on. No one interested? Or is it too hard?

    I’ll help. These are runic inscriptions. Yes RUNES. But who wrote them and why?

    If you’re into history it’s a fabulously surprising answer

    Here’s another one. There are several. Nullifico googlissimi!


    THat's much clearer - I did wonder about runes but thought it's some prat called Hurrell or Hurren.

    They'll be Danes or Orcadians en route to the Holy Land, and doing a bit if sightseeing/allying/plundering en route. Wonder if it's the same lot as in the Orkneyinga Saga, which is partly about just such an adventure holiday? It's a long time since I read i t, so no idea if the places match up. But you won't let me google.

    Close but no cigarillo

    The answer surprised me completely. 7th century

    No googling it ruins the fun

    Ok here’s a big clue. The first one looks less obviously runic - as you noticed. That’s because it incorporates Roman lettering styles albeit it is in runes… oooooh
    Too early for the Norse. Visigoths, then?
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,395
    Leon said:

    Honestly, after mocking Monte Sant’Angelo all day it turns out it is marvellous. And intensely noomy. It just goes down and down and down - through rock and history - past and down through the baroque and the Renaissance and the Angevins and the Normans and the Byzantines and the Lombards to the late romans. You pass the place where st Francis of Assisi came to pray because it was already famous in his time

    And then the shrine. From 490AD. When the archangel Michael came to live here and consecrated it himself and they still have mass in the cave and take it VERY VERY seriously this is Italy not secular France so the overall noomfactor is almost off the dial. And after scoffing I ended up a bit choked and actually taking communion. Serve me right

    Then you emerge from the frigid sacred noomy darkness and this is the view


    Imagine if you'd had a proper walk to get there..
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,848
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Oh go on. No one interested? Or is it too hard?

    I’ll help. These are runic inscriptions. Yes RUNES. But who wrote them and why?

    If you’re into history it’s a fabulously surprising answer

    Here’s another one. There are several. Nullifico googlissimi!


    THat's much clearer - I did wonder about runes but thought it's some prat called Hurrell or Hurren.

    They'll be Danes or Orcadians en route to the Holy Land, and doing a bit if sightseeing/allying/plundering en route. Wonder if it's the same lot as in the Orkneyinga Saga, which is partly about just such an adventure holiday? It's a long time since I read i t, so no idea if the places match up. But you won't let me google.

    Close but no cigarillo

    The answer surprised me completely. 7th century

    No googling it ruins the fun

    Ok here’s a big clue. The first one looks less obviously runic - as you noticed. That’s because it incorporates Roman lettering styles albeit it is in runes… oooooh
    Too early for the Norse. Visigoths, then?
    Very good guesses but no

    Incredibly - to me - these five runic inscriptions are five Anglo Saxons from England in the 7th century. Leofwin, Herraed, Hereberehct, etc. I wasn’t aware Anglo Saxons ever used runes? Apparently they did: it is thought these five men were Anglo Saxon churchmen working - at least temporarily - in the shrine. Some had training in Latin as well, it is thought, hence the Romaniaed runes

    The 7th century!!! England would still have been partly pagan back then. And these men would have called themselves… what? Jutes? Saxons? Kentish?

    https://durham-repository.worktribe.com/output/1306431/writing-on-the-wall-anglo-saxons-at-monte-santangelo-sul-gargano-puglia-and-the-spiritual-and-social-significance-of-graffiti
  • Options
    RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,169
    Woah. SLAB polling roughly back to where it was in 2010.

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    Largest Labour lead in Scotland with ANY polling company since June 2014.

    Scotland Westminster VI (8-9 May):

    Labour 38% (+5)
    SNP 31% (-1)
    Conservative 14% (-3)
    Lib Dem 8% (–)
    Reform 4% (-1)
    Green 4% (+2)
    Alba 1% (-1)
    Other 0% (–)

    Changes +/- 6-7 April
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,431
    I’ve been given to understand by more tissue skinned PBers that my occasional barb has had a chilling effect on Scotch commentary on here. Certainly if there is one thing missing on PB it’s a surfeit of opinions on Scotland from those not governed by Scotland. I just want to make it clear that no one should feel restrained on making such comments just as I will feel free to describe them as I wish. Let free speech reign..

  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,853

    Omnium said:

    Donkeys said:

    Israeli ambassador to the UN Gilad Erdan has today spoken against the proposal to welcome Palestine as a UN member state. When he addressed the countries that support the proposal, can you guess which emotion he referred to? What about which WW2 political leader?

    That's right. "Today", he declared, "You are about to (...) advance the establishment of a Palestinian terror state, which will be led by the Hitler of our times."

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/5/10/israels-war-on-gaza-live-aid-operation-completely-crippled-amid-attacks?update=2892034

    But according to the definition of "anti-Semitism" written by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance - adopted by Britain's three major political parties, as well as the British government - it's "anti-Semitic" to compare "contemporary Israeli policy" to "that of the Nazis".

    So the Hitler emulators are calling the resistance to their Hitlerism horrible types who are just like Hitler, while painting anybody who says they themselves are like Hitler as...also just like Hitler.

    What does this guy who died in the 1940s have to do with anything?

    Ever get the feeling you are being treated like an absolute cretin by a bunch of hypocritical lying c***s?

    Have you heard of Aribet Heim, Alfred Zingler, Johann von Leers, Wilhelm Boerner or Franz Bartel?

    Actual, bona fide members of the actual Nazi party, who were actually employed by Arab nations after the war to help indoctrinate their people with real Jew killing hate
    Who was it who indoctrinated the IDF with real Arab-killing hate?
    The Arabs. Whatever Israel's sins, the Arabs have been really rotten neighbours. (Perhaps that is showing signs of change though)
    But the Israelis have killed far more Arabs than the Arabs have killed Jews.

    Since 2008, Hamas have killed 2,000 Israelis (including 7/10, natch), but the Israelis have killed over 40,000 Arabs (including the post-7/10 bombardment).

    Pre-7/10, the Israelis killed 6,300 Arabs, while Hamas killed only 310 Jews (ie. from Jan 2008 to Sept 2023).

    (Source - Wikipedia)
    Of course, but the Arab's intent was very much the other way.

    Hamas value their own people at about 100 to one Israeli. Nothing condemns them more effectively than such callous nonsense. A Palestinian is much the same as an Israeli.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,646
    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    So rumour from Malmo is that the Israeli contestant was continually winding up Joost Klein back stage to the point that Joost or someone in the Dutch team punched her...

    Winding him up by being openly Jewish?
    The rumour is the Israeli guards mocked Joosts dead parents, so he hit one of the escorts, not the singer.
    What happened to Joost's parents? I know he referenced his dad with the "Europapa" song.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,154
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Oh go on. No one interested? Or is it too hard?

    I’ll help. These are runic inscriptions. Yes RUNES. But who wrote them and why?

    If you’re into history it’s a fabulously surprising answer

    Here’s another one. There are several. Nullifico googlissimi!


    THat's much clearer - I did wonder about runes but thought it's some prat called Hurrell or Hurren.

    They'll be Danes or Orcadians en route to the Holy Land, and doing a bit if sightseeing/allying/plundering en route. Wonder if it's the same lot as in the Orkneyinga Saga, which is partly about just such an adventure holiday? It's a long time since I read i t, so no idea if the places match up. But you won't let me google.

    Close but no cigarillo

    The answer surprised me completely. 7th century

    No googling it ruins the fun

    Ok here’s a big clue. The first one looks less obviously runic - as you noticed. That’s because it incorporates Roman lettering styles albeit it is in runes… oooooh
    Too early for the Norse. Visigoths, then?
    Very good guesses but no

    Incredibly - to me - these five runic inscriptions are five Anglo Saxons from England in the 7th century. Leofwin, Herraed, Hereberehct, etc. I wasn’t aware Anglo Saxons ever used runes? Apparently they did: it is thought these five men were Anglo Saxon churchmen working - at least temporarily - in the shrine. Some had training in Latin as well, it is thought, hence the Romaniaed runes

    The 7th century!!! England would still have been partly pagan back then. And these men would have called themselves… what? Jutes? Saxons? Kentish?

    https://durham-repository.worktribe.com/output/1306431/writing-on-the-wall-anglo-saxons-at-monte-santangelo-sul-gargano-puglia-and-the-spiritual-and-social-significance-of-graffiti
    “ And these men would have called themselves… what? Jutes? Saxons? Kentish?”

    You told us what they called themselves, Leofwin, Herraed, Hereberehct, and some guy called “Etc” but I don’t believe it was his real name.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,848
    I can’t get my head around rune-using Anglo Saxons from 7th century dark age England ending up working as priests in Lombardic puglia

    How the F? And what a journey. Maybe the dark ages weren’t quite as dark as we think
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,182
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Oh go on. No one interested? Or is it too hard?

    I’ll help. These are runic inscriptions. Yes RUNES. But who wrote them and why?

    If you’re into history it’s a fabulously surprising answer

    Here’s another one. There are several. Nullifico googlissimi!


    THat's much clearer - I did wonder about runes but thought it's some prat called Hurrell or Hurren.

    They'll be Danes or Orcadians en route to the Holy Land, and doing a bit if sightseeing/allying/plundering en route. Wonder if it's the same lot as in the Orkneyinga Saga, which is partly about just such an adventure holiday? It's a long time since I read i t, so no idea if the places match up. But you won't let me google.

    Close but no cigarillo

    The answer surprised me completely. 7th century

    No googling it ruins the fun

    Ok here’s a big clue. The first one looks less obviously runic - as you noticed. That’s because it incorporates Roman lettering styles albeit it is in runes… oooooh
    Too early for the Norse. Visigoths, then?
    Very good guesses but no

    Incredibly - to me - these five runic inscriptions are five Anglo Saxons from England in the 7th century. Leofwin, Herraed, Hereberehct, etc. I wasn’t aware Anglo Saxons ever used runes? Apparently they did: it is thought these five men were Anglo Saxon churchmen working - at least temporarily - in the shrine. Some had training in Latin as well, it is thought, hence the Romaniaed runes

    The 7th century!!! England would still have been partly pagan back then. And these men would have called themselves… what? Jutes? Saxons? Kentish?

    https://durham-repository.worktribe.com/output/1306431/writing-on-the-wall-anglo-saxons-at-monte-santangelo-sul-gargano-puglia-and-the-spiritual-and-social-significance-of-graffiti
    Damn! Should have though tof that. There is an OE poem describing the signs of the futhark (runic alphabet)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English_rune_poem
    https://oldenglishpoetry.camden.rutgers.edu/the-rune-poem/

    Very nice example of graffiti, though, right up htere with the runic graffiti in Maeshoew in Orkney (and IRC on a Byzantine marble lion now in Venice).
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,460
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Oh go on. No one interested? Or is it too hard?

    I’ll help. These are runic inscriptions. Yes RUNES. But who wrote them and why?

    If you’re into history it’s a fabulously surprising answer

    Here’s another one. There are several. Nullifico googlissimi!


    THat's much clearer - I did wonder about runes but thought it's some prat called Hurrell or Hurren.

    They'll be Danes or Orcadians en route to the Holy Land, and doing a bit if sightseeing/allying/plundering en route. Wonder if it's the same lot as in the Orkneyinga Saga, which is partly about just such an adventure holiday? It's a long time since I read i t, so no idea if the places match up. But you won't let me google.

    Close but no cigarillo

    The answer surprised me completely. 7th century

    No googling it ruins the fun

    Ok here’s a big clue. The first one looks less obviously runic - as you noticed. That’s because it incorporates Roman lettering styles albeit it is in runes… oooooh
    Too early for the Norse. Visigoths, then?
    Very good guesses but no

    Incredibly - to me - these five runic inscriptions are five Anglo Saxons from England in the 7th century. Leofwin, Herraed, Hereberehct, etc. I wasn’t aware Anglo Saxons ever used runes? Apparently they did: it is thought these five men were Anglo Saxon churchmen working - at least temporarily - in the shrine. Some had training in Latin as well, it is thought, hence the Romaniaed runes

    The 7th century!!! England would still have been partly pagan back then. And these men would have called themselves… what? Jutes? Saxons? Kentish?

    https://durham-repository.worktribe.com/output/1306431/writing-on-the-wall-anglo-saxons-at-monte-santangelo-sul-gargano-puglia-and-the-spiritual-and-social-significance-of-graffiti
    The etymology of Kent is unusual as, I believe, it's the only county name in the South East of England believed to be of Celtic origin. Caesar described the area as Cantium, or the home of the Cantiaci, in his account of his brief excursion across the Channel. The Jutish kingdom was recorded as 'Cantia' in the mid-eighth century and 'Cent' in the mid-ninth. That suggests the name had a staying power that the Jutes who settled were keen to retain, rather than rename it New Jutland or something.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,154
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Oh go on. No one interested? Or is it too hard?

    I’ll help. These are runic inscriptions. Yes RUNES. But who wrote them and why?

    If you’re into history it’s a fabulously surprising answer

    Here’s another one. There are several. Nullifico googlissimi!


    THat's much clearer - I did wonder about runes but thought it's some prat called Hurrell or Hurren.

    They'll be Danes or Orcadians en route to the Holy Land, and doing a bit if sightseeing/allying/plundering en route. Wonder if it's the same lot as in the Orkneyinga Saga, which is partly about just such an adventure holiday? It's a long time since I read i t, so no idea if the places match up. But you won't let me google.

    Close but no cigarillo

    The answer surprised me completely. 7th century

    No googling it ruins the fun

    Ok here’s a big clue. The first one looks less obviously runic - as you noticed. That’s because it incorporates Roman lettering styles albeit it is in runes… oooooh
    Too early for the Norse. Visigoths, then?
    Very good guesses but no

    Incredibly - to me - these five runic inscriptions are five Anglo Saxons from England in the 7th century. Leofwin, Herraed, Hereberehct, etc. I wasn’t aware Anglo Saxons ever used runes? Apparently they did: it is thought these five men were Anglo Saxon churchmen working - at least temporarily - in the shrine. Some had training in Latin as well, it is thought, hence the Romaniaed runes

    The 7th century!!! England would still have been partly pagan back then. And these men would have called themselves… what? Jutes? Saxons? Kentish?

    https://durham-repository.worktribe.com/output/1306431/writing-on-the-wall-anglo-saxons-at-monte-santangelo-sul-gargano-puglia-and-the-spiritual-and-social-significance-of-graffiti
    Damn! Should have though tof that. There is an OE poem describing the signs of the futhark (runic alphabet)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English_rune_poem
    https://oldenglishpoetry.camden.rutgers.edu/the-rune-poem/

    Very nice example of graffiti, though, right up htere with the runic graffiti in Maeshoew in Orkney (and IRC on a Byzantine marble lion now in Venice).
    There is some nice runic graffiti in Hagia Sofia on stones in the galleries if I remember correctly. Varangian guards from up north.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,182
    Leon said:

    I can’t get my head around rune-using Anglo Saxons from 7th century dark age England ending up working as priests in Lombardic puglia

    How the F? And what a journey. Maybe the dark ages weren’t quite as dark as we think

    No Brexit. All part of the RCC, all networked (apart from the Celts obvs).
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,395
    edited May 10

    I’ve been given to understand by more tissue skinned PBers that my occasional barb has had a chilling effect on Scotch commentary on here. Certainly if there is one thing missing on PB it’s a surfeit of opinions on Scotland from those not governed by Scotland. I just want to make it clear that no one should feel restrained on making such comments just as I will feel free to describe them as I wish. Let free speech reign..

    Did you never consider that your endlessly repeated McBarbarella of barbs, basically a short version of "what do you, a non Scot, know about Scotland, and how dare you pretend you do", might be a bit off-putting in the end?
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,992
    Leon said:

    I can’t get my head around rune-using Anglo Saxons from 7th century dark age England ending up working as priests in Lombardic puglia

    How the F? And what a journey. Maybe the dark ages weren’t quite as dark as we think

    Many of the Roman roads would still have been in pretty decent order so it was probably an easier land journey to make in the 7th century than in the 17th. And there was also sea travel. People did get about. Anglo-Saxon refugees after the Norman Conquest played an important role in the Byzantine Empire ...

    https://novoscriptorium.com/2019/11/23/english-refugees-were-the-most-prominent-element-in-the-eastern-roman-byzantine-varangian-guard-from-the-late-11th-to-the-13th-century/

  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,460
    Leon said:

    I can’t get my head around rune-using Anglo Saxons from 7th century dark age England ending up working as priests in Lombardic puglia

    How the F? And what a journey. Maybe the dark ages weren’t quite as dark as we think

    In the Orthodox tradition anyway, and possibly the Catholic tradition, the patron saint of Germany is St Boniface, an English Benedictine monk probably from Exeter who was sent to convert the German speaking parts of Francia in the 8th Century. Which is why Devon and Germany have the same patron saint.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,848
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Oh go on. No one interested? Or is it too hard?

    I’ll help. These are runic inscriptions. Yes RUNES. But who wrote them and why?

    If you’re into history it’s a fabulously surprising answer

    Here’s another one. There are several. Nullifico googlissimi!


    THat's much clearer - I did wonder about runes but thought it's some prat called Hurrell or Hurren.

    They'll be Danes or Orcadians en route to the Holy Land, and doing a bit if sightseeing/allying/plundering en route. Wonder if it's the same lot as in the Orkneyinga Saga, which is partly about just such an adventure holiday? It's a long time since I read i t, so no idea if the places match up. But you won't let me google.

    Close but no cigarillo

    The answer surprised me completely. 7th century

    No googling it ruins the fun

    Ok here’s a big clue. The first one looks less obviously runic - as you noticed. That’s because it incorporates Roman lettering styles albeit it is in runes… oooooh
    Too early for the Norse. Visigoths, then?
    Very good guesses but no

    Incredibly - to me - these five runic inscriptions are five Anglo Saxons from England in the 7th century. Leofwin, Herraed, Hereberehct, etc. I wasn’t aware Anglo Saxons ever used runes? Apparently they did: it is thought these five men were Anglo Saxon churchmen working - at least temporarily - in the shrine. Some had training in Latin as well, it is thought, hence the Romaniaed runes

    The 7th century!!! England would still have been partly pagan back then. And these men would have called themselves… what? Jutes? Saxons? Kentish?

    https://durham-repository.worktribe.com/output/1306431/writing-on-the-wall-anglo-saxons-at-monte-santangelo-sul-gargano-puglia-and-the-spiritual-and-social-significance-of-graffiti
    Damn! Should have though tof that. There is an OE poem describing the signs of the futhark (runic alphabet)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English_rune_poem
    https://oldenglishpoetry.camden.rutgers.edu/the-rune-poem/

    Very nice example of graffiti, though, right up htere with the runic graffiti in Maeshoew in Orkney (and IRC on a Byzantine marble lion now in Venice).
    Yes it’s brilliant. Also the famous runic graffiti carved by a bored Varangian guard at Hagia Sophia - but that’s 10th century and they were Norsemen so you kind of expect it. So this is MORE surprising and “English” and much older

    Anything from the Dark Ages (so called) gives me a noomic shiver

    I’m pretty sure I saw some apotropaic graffiti further up

    It’s an amazing place. I thoroughly recommend it to PBers seeking an unusual holiday. The gargano peninsula. It is also notably cheap outside high summer. You’ll have it to yourself - tho it is chilly if sunny up in these hills under the scoured skies


  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,395

    Omnium said:

    Donkeys said:

    Israeli ambassador to the UN Gilad Erdan has today spoken against the proposal to welcome Palestine as a UN member state. When he addressed the countries that support the proposal, can you guess which emotion he referred to? What about which WW2 political leader?

    That's right. "Today", he declared, "You are about to (...) advance the establishment of a Palestinian terror state, which will be led by the Hitler of our times."

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/5/10/israels-war-on-gaza-live-aid-operation-completely-crippled-amid-attacks?update=2892034

    But according to the definition of "anti-Semitism" written by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance - adopted by Britain's three major political parties, as well as the British government - it's "anti-Semitic" to compare "contemporary Israeli policy" to "that of the Nazis".

    So the Hitler emulators are calling the resistance to their Hitlerism horrible types who are just like Hitler, while painting anybody who says they themselves are like Hitler as...also just like Hitler.

    What does this guy who died in the 1940s have to do with anything?

    Ever get the feeling you are being treated like an absolute cretin by a bunch of hypocritical lying c***s?

    Have you heard of Aribet Heim, Alfred Zingler, Johann von Leers, Wilhelm Boerner or Franz Bartel?

    Actual, bona fide members of the actual Nazi party, who were actually employed by Arab nations after the war to help indoctrinate their people with real Jew killing hate
    Who was it who indoctrinated the IDF with real Arab-killing hate?
    The Arabs. Whatever Israel's sins, the Arabs have been really rotten neighbours. (Perhaps that is showing signs of change though)
    But the Israelis have killed far more Arabs than the Arabs have killed Jews.

    Since 2008, Hamas have killed 2,000 Israelis (including 7/10, natch), but the Israelis have killed over 40,000 Arabs (including the post-7/10 bombardment).

    Pre-7/10, the Israelis killed 6,300 Arabs, while Hamas killed only 310 Jews (ie. from Jan 2008 to Sept 2023).

    (Source - Wikipedia)
    Why don't you do a barchart of Muslims "murdered" by Muslims, versus Muslims killed by Jews, since the creation of Israel?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,766
    England coach Brendon McCullum has held talks with leading wicket-taker James Anderson about the veteran bowler's future.

    McCullum told Anderson, who turns 42 in July, that England are looking to build a bowling attack for the future.

    It is not clear whether Anderson has played his last Test or if he will get a farewell this summer.

    Anderson has taken 700 wickets in 187 Tests - the most by any pace bowler in Test history.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/cll4e9qlm7ro
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,848
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    I can’t get my head around rune-using Anglo Saxons from 7th century dark age England ending up working as priests in Lombardic puglia

    How the F? And what a journey. Maybe the dark ages weren’t quite as dark as we think

    In the Orthodox tradition anyway, and possibly the Catholic tradition, the patron saint of Germany is St Boniface, an English Benedictine monk probably from Exeter who was sent to convert the German speaking parts of Francia in the 8th Century. Which is why Devon and Germany have the same patron saint.
    Fantastico. Didn’t know that
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,460

    England coach Brendon McCullum has held talks with leading wicket-taker James Anderson about the veteran bowler's future.

    McCullum told Anderson, who turns 42 in July, that England are looking to build a bowling attack for the future.

    It is not clear whether Anderson has played his last Test or if he will get a farewell this summer.

    Anderson has taken 700 wickets in 187 Tests - the most by any pace bowler in Test history.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/cll4e9qlm7ro

    It had to happen sometime.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,147

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    So rumour from Malmo is that the Israeli contestant was continually winding up Joost Klein back stage to the point that Joost or someone in the Dutch team punched her...

    Winding him up by being openly Jewish?
    The rumour is the Israeli guards mocked Joosts dead parents, so he hit one of the escorts, not the singer.
    What happened to Joost's parents? I know he referenced his dad with the "Europapa" song.
    Dad died of cancer when he was 12, mum died of a heart attack a year later
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,395
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Oh go on. No one interested? Or is it too hard?

    I’ll help. These are runic inscriptions. Yes RUNES. But who wrote them and why?

    If you’re into history it’s a fabulously surprising answer

    Here’s another one. There are several. Nullifico googlissimi!


    THat's much clearer - I did wonder about runes but thought it's some prat called Hurrell or Hurren.

    They'll be Danes or Orcadians en route to the Holy Land, and doing a bit if sightseeing/allying/plundering en route. Wonder if it's the same lot as in the Orkneyinga Saga, which is partly about just such an adventure holiday? It's a long time since I read i t, so no idea if the places match up. But you won't let me google.

    Close but no cigarillo

    The answer surprised me completely. 7th century

    No googling it ruins the fun

    Ok here’s a big clue. The first one looks less obviously runic - as you noticed. That’s because it incorporates Roman lettering styles albeit it is in runes… oooooh
    Too early for the Norse. Visigoths, then?
    Very good guesses but no

    Incredibly - to me - these five runic inscriptions are five Anglo Saxons from England in the 7th century. Leofwin, Herraed, Hereberehct, etc. I wasn’t aware Anglo Saxons ever used runes? Apparently they did: it is thought these five men were Anglo Saxon churchmen working - at least temporarily - in the shrine. Some had training in Latin as well, it is thought, hence the Romaniaed runes

    The 7th century!!! England would still have been partly pagan back then. And these men would have called themselves… what? Jutes? Saxons? Kentish?

    https://durham-repository.worktribe.com/output/1306431/writing-on-the-wall-anglo-saxons-at-monte-santangelo-sul-gargano-puglia-and-the-spiritual-and-social-significance-of-graffiti
    Damn! Should have though tof that. There is an OE poem describing the signs of the futhark (runic alphabet)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English_rune_poem
    https://oldenglishpoetry.camden.rutgers.edu/the-rune-poem/

    Very nice example of graffiti, though, right up htere with the runic graffiti in Maeshoew in Orkney (and IRC on a Byzantine marble lion now in Venice).
    Yes it’s brilliant. Also the famous runic graffiti carved by a bored Varangian guard at Hagia Sophia - but that’s 10th century and they were Norsemen so you kind of expect it. So this is MORE surprising and “English” and much older

    Anything from the Dark Ages (so called) gives me a noomic shiver

    I’m pretty sure I saw some apotropaic graffiti further up

    It’s an amazing place. I thoroughly recommend it to PBers seeking an unusual holiday. The gargano peninsula. It is also notably cheap outside high summer. You’ll have it to yourself - tho it is chilly if sunny up in these hills under the scoured skies


    Might have to plan a walk there some day
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,625
    The reverse Midas touch goes on:

    Adidas Samba sales sink after Sunak ‘ruined it for everyone’

    Prime Minister apologised to fans of the trainers after he wore them to an interview

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/10/adidas-samba-trainer-sales-suffer-after-sunak-wears-pair/
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,431
    edited May 10

    I’ve been given to understand by more tissue skinned PBers that my occasional barb has had a chilling effect on Scotch commentary on here. Certainly if there is one thing missing on PB it’s a surfeit of opinions on Scotland from those not governed by Scotland. I just want to make it clear that no one should feel restrained on making such comments just as I will feel free to describe them as I wish. Let free speech reign..

    Did you never consider that your endlessly repeated McBarbarella of barbs, basically a short version of "what do you, a non Scot, know about Scotland, and how dare you pretend you do", might be a bit off-putting in the end?
    Thanks for the advice.
    Who am I supposed to be on-putting, and on to what?

    If you ever want advice on how to make your Ukraine and Israel stanning less off-putting, just let me know.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,766
    Updated the thread header with this poll, the Swinney slump continues

    Largest Labour lead in Scotland with ANY polling company since June 2014.

    Scotland Westminster VI (8-9 May):

    Labour 38% (+5)
    SNP 31% (-1)
    Conservative 14% (-3)
    Lib Dem 8% (–)
    Reform 4% (-1)
    Green 4% (+2)
    Alba 1% (-1)
    Other 0% (–)

    Changes +/- 6-7 April

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1788963297946984759
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,848

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Oh go on. No one interested? Or is it too hard?

    I’ll help. These are runic inscriptions. Yes RUNES. But who wrote them and why?

    If you’re into history it’s a fabulously surprising answer

    Here’s another one. There are several. Nullifico googlissimi!


    THat's much clearer - I did wonder about runes but thought it's some prat called Hurrell or Hurren.

    They'll be Danes or Orcadians en route to the Holy Land, and doing a bit if sightseeing/allying/plundering en route. Wonder if it's the same lot as in the Orkneyinga Saga, which is partly about just such an adventure holiday? It's a long time since I read i t, so no idea if the places match up. But you won't let me google.

    Close but no cigarillo

    The answer surprised me completely. 7th century

    No googling it ruins the fun

    Ok here’s a big clue. The first one looks less obviously runic - as you noticed. That’s because it incorporates Roman lettering styles albeit it is in runes… oooooh
    Too early for the Norse. Visigoths, then?
    Very good guesses but no

    Incredibly - to me - these five runic inscriptions are five Anglo Saxons from England in the 7th century. Leofwin, Herraed, Hereberehct, etc. I wasn’t aware Anglo Saxons ever used runes? Apparently they did: it is thought these five men were Anglo Saxon churchmen working - at least temporarily - in the shrine. Some had training in Latin as well, it is thought, hence the Romaniaed runes

    The 7th century!!! England would still have been partly pagan back then. And these men would have called themselves… what? Jutes? Saxons? Kentish?

    https://durham-repository.worktribe.com/output/1306431/writing-on-the-wall-anglo-saxons-at-monte-santangelo-sul-gargano-puglia-and-the-spiritual-and-social-significance-of-graffiti
    Damn! Should have though tof that. There is an OE poem describing the signs of the futhark (runic alphabet)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English_rune_poem
    https://oldenglishpoetry.camden.rutgers.edu/the-rune-poem/

    Very nice example of graffiti, though, right up htere with the runic graffiti in Maeshoew in Orkney (and IRC on a Byzantine marble lion now in Venice).
    Yes it’s brilliant. Also the famous runic graffiti carved by a bored Varangian guard at Hagia Sophia - but that’s 10th century and they were Norsemen so you kind of expect it. So this is MORE surprising and “English” and much older

    Anything from the Dark Ages (so called) gives me a noomic shiver

    I’m pretty sure I saw some apotropaic graffiti further up

    It’s an amazing place. I thoroughly recommend it to PBers seeking an unusual holiday. The gargano peninsula. It is also notably cheap outside high summer. You’ll have it to yourself - tho it is chilly if sunny up in these hills under the scoured skies


    Might have to plan a walk there some day
    Happy to advise. Its really cheap and seriously
    beautiful. Only Italians (and a few Germans) come here in numbers and they only come in high summer. Good food as well
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,395

    I’ve been given to understand by more tissue skinned PBers that my occasional barb has had a chilling effect on Scotch commentary on here. Certainly if there is one thing missing on PB it’s a surfeit of opinions on Scotland from those not governed by Scotland. I just want to make it clear that no one should feel restrained on making such comments just as I will feel free to describe them as I wish. Let free speech reign..

    Did you never consider that your endlessly repeated McBarbarella of barbs, basically a short version of "what do you, a non Scot, know about Scotland, and how dare you pretend you do", might be a bit off-putting in the end?
    Thanks for the advice.
    Who am I supposed to be on-putting, and on to what?

    If you ever want advice on how to make your Ukraine and Israel stanning less off-putting, just let me know.
    At least I don't have a dickish catchphrase
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,154

    The reverse Midas touch goes on:

    Adidas Samba sales sink after Sunak ‘ruined it for everyone’

    Prime Minister apologised to fans of the trainers after he wore them to an interview

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/10/adidas-samba-trainer-sales-suffer-after-sunak-wears-pair/

    I’d be more embarrassed by wearing the same trainers as the sort of wankers who get angry about a politician wearing the same shoes as them because they are like so cool and original and just ruined by Sunak and the millions of other unoriginal tossers.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,431
    On topic, a little early for big ol' conclusions, but at least the PB Forbsies who insist that the SNP and Indy can only thrive with Katie Creideamh in government have gone a bit quiet.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,431

    I’ve been given to understand by more tissue skinned PBers that my occasional barb has had a chilling effect on Scotch commentary on here. Certainly if there is one thing missing on PB it’s a surfeit of opinions on Scotland from those not governed by Scotland. I just want to make it clear that no one should feel restrained on making such comments just as I will feel free to describe them as I wish. Let free speech reign..

    Did you never consider that your endlessly repeated McBarbarella of barbs, basically a short version of "what do you, a non Scot, know about Scotland, and how dare you pretend you do", might be a bit off-putting in the end?
    Thanks for the advice.
    Who am I supposed to be on-putting, and on to what?

    If you ever want advice on how to make your Ukraine and Israel stanning less off-putting, just let me know.
    At least I don't have a dickish catchphrase
    Seems to be used (whinily) by others more than me. I guess that makes them...

  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 7,593
    Been out since lunch so not sure if we did this?
    https://twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/1788960606134898962?s=19
    Rwanda plan backed 55 to 20
    Starmer ditching it in favour of......?
    Maybe a misstep. Definitely a misstep if flights start going
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,740
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Oh go on. No one interested? Or is it too hard?

    I’ll help. These are runic inscriptions. Yes RUNES. But who wrote them and why?

    If you’re into history it’s a fabulously surprising answer

    Here’s another one. There are several. Nullifico googlissimi!


    THat's much clearer - I did wonder about runes but thought it's some prat called Hurrell or Hurren.

    They'll be Danes or Orcadians en route to the Holy Land, and doing a bit if sightseeing/allying/plundering en route. Wonder if it's the same lot as in the Orkneyinga Saga, which is partly about just such an adventure holiday? It's a long time since I read i t, so no idea if the places match up. But you won't let me google.

    Close but no cigarillo

    The answer surprised me completely. 7th century

    No googling it ruins the fun

    Ok here’s a big clue. The first one looks less obviously runic - as you noticed. That’s because it incorporates Roman lettering styles albeit it is in runes… oooooh
    Too early for the Norse. Visigoths, then?
    Very good guesses but no

    Incredibly - to me - these five runic inscriptions are five Anglo Saxons from England in the 7th century. Leofwin, Herraed, Hereberehct, etc. I wasn’t aware Anglo Saxons ever used runes? Apparently they did: it is thought these five men were Anglo Saxon churchmen working - at least temporarily - in the shrine. Some had training in Latin as well, it is thought, hence the Romaniaed runes

    The 7th century!!! England would still have been partly pagan back then. And these men would have called themselves… what? Jutes? Saxons? Kentish?

    https://durham-repository.worktribe.com/output/1306431/writing-on-the-wall-anglo-saxons-at-monte-santangelo-sul-gargano-puglia-and-the-spiritual-and-social-significance-of-graffiti
    Anglo Saxon runes are available free at Ruthwell (I was there a fortnight ago) on the Scottish side of the Solway just beyond Annan. This astonishing cross has not only magnificent sculptures but also a variant text in Runic script of lines 39-64 of the Dream of the Rood, one of the greatest of the Anglo Saxon poems (I read English so long ago that we had to study it in the original).

    Less noomy than its sister cross at Bewcastle, but both are unmissable.

    Yes Anglo Saxons used runes.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 7,593
    We Think find a YouGov style bounce and confirm the reform sink back trend

    Labour up 3 points.

    🔴 Lab 47% (+3)
    🔵 Con 24% (NC)
    🟠 LD 9% (+1)
    ⚪ Ref 10% (-3)
    🟢 Green 6% (NC)
    🟡 SNP 2% (NC)
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,853
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Oh go on. No one interested? Or is it too hard?

    I’ll help. These are runic inscriptions. Yes RUNES. But who wrote them and why?

    If you’re into history it’s a fabulously surprising answer

    Here’s another one. There are several. Nullifico googlissimi!


    THat's much clearer - I did wonder about runes but thought it's some prat called Hurrell or Hurren.

    They'll be Danes or Orcadians en route to the Holy Land, and doing a bit if sightseeing/allying/plundering en route. Wonder if it's the same lot as in the Orkneyinga Saga, which is partly about just such an adventure holiday? It's a long time since I read i t, so no idea if the places match up. But you won't let me google.

    Close but no cigarillo

    The answer surprised me completely. 7th century

    No googling it ruins the fun

    Ok here’s a big clue. The first one looks less obviously runic - as you noticed. That’s because it incorporates Roman lettering styles albeit it is in runes… oooooh
    Too early for the Norse. Visigoths, then?
    Very good guesses but no

    Incredibly - to me - these five runic inscriptions are five Anglo Saxons from England in the 7th century. Leofwin, Herraed, Hereberehct, etc. I wasn’t aware Anglo Saxons ever used runes? Apparently they did: it is thought these five men were Anglo Saxon churchmen working - at least temporarily - in the shrine. Some had training in Latin as well, it is thought, hence the Romaniaed runes

    The 7th century!!! England would still have been partly pagan back then. And these men would have called themselves… what? Jutes? Saxons? Kentish?

    https://durham-repository.worktribe.com/output/1306431/writing-on-the-wall-anglo-saxons-at-monte-santangelo-sul-gargano-puglia-and-the-spiritual-and-social-significance-of-graffiti
    Damn! Should have though tof that. There is an OE poem describing the signs of the futhark (runic alphabet)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English_rune_poem
    https://oldenglishpoetry.camden.rutgers.edu/the-rune-poem/

    Very nice example of graffiti, though, right up htere with the runic graffiti in Maeshoew in Orkney (and IRC on a Byzantine marble lion now in Venice).
    Yes it’s brilliant. Also the famous runic graffiti carved by a bored Varangian guard at Hagia Sophia - but that’s 10th century and they were Norsemen so you kind of expect it. So this is MORE surprising and “English” and much older

    Anything from the Dark Ages (so called) gives me a noomic shiver

    I’m pretty sure I saw some apotropaic graffiti further up

    It’s an amazing place. I thoroughly recommend it to PBers seeking an unusual holiday. The gargano peninsula. It is also notably cheap outside high summer. You’ll have it to yourself - tho it is chilly if sunny up in these hills under the scoured skies


    Might have to plan a walk there some day
    Happy to advise. Its really cheap and seriously
    beautiful. Only Italians (and a few Germans) come here in numbers and they only come in high summer. Good food as well
    In the late 30s there were about 50 German anthropologists that decided to tip up in Iceland.
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,395
    edited May 10

    I’ve been given to understand by more tissue skinned PBers that my occasional barb has had a chilling effect on Scotch commentary on here. Certainly if there is one thing missing on PB it’s a surfeit of opinions on Scotland from those not governed by Scotland. I just want to make it clear that no one should feel restrained on making such comments just as I will feel free to describe them as I wish. Let free speech reign..

    Did you never consider that your endlessly repeated McBarbarella of barbs, basically a short version of "what do you, a non Scot, know about Scotland, and how dare you pretend you do", might be a bit off-putting in the end?
    Thanks for the advice.
    Who am I supposed to be on-putting, and on to what?

    If you ever want advice on how to make your Ukraine and Israel stanning less off-putting, just let me know.
    At least I don't have a dickish catchphrase
    Seems to be used (whinily) by others more than me. I guess that makes them...

    It's quite remarkable then how everybody here can identify you by reference to its use..

    How on earth did that happen?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,226
    Leon said:

    I can’t get my head around rune-using Anglo Saxons from 7th century dark age England ending up working as priests in Lombardic puglia

    How the F? And what a journey. Maybe the dark ages weren’t quite as dark as we think

    Perhaps they had a commission from Spectatoris Scriptum Brittanae to travel the known world and report back. :)
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,431

    Been out since lunch so not sure if we did this?
    https://twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/1788960606134898962?s=19
    Rwanda plan backed 55 to 20
    Starmer ditching it in favour of......?
    Maybe a misstep. Definitely a misstep if flights start going

    A bit weaselly worded by the Sun (who could have predicted?)..

    'JL partners found 55 per cent of people are actually in favour of asylum seekers being "removed to their home country or to a safe country, such as Rwanda". '
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,600

    England coach Brendon McCullum has held talks with leading wicket-taker James Anderson about the veteran bowler's future.

    McCullum told Anderson, who turns 42 in July, that England are looking to build a bowling attack for the future.

    It is not clear whether Anderson has played his last Test or if he will get a farewell this summer.

    Anderson has taken 700 wickets in 187 Tests - the most by any pace bowler in Test history.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/cll4e9qlm7ro

    Let him stay until he's overtaken Shane Warne.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,848
    boulay said:

    The reverse Midas touch goes on:

    Adidas Samba sales sink after Sunak ‘ruined it for everyone’

    Prime Minister apologised to fans of the trainers after he wore them to an interview

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/10/adidas-samba-trainer-sales-suffer-after-sunak-wears-pair/

    I’d be more embarrassed by wearing the same trainers as the sort of wankers who get angry about a politician wearing the same shoes as them because they are like so cool and original and just ruined by Sunak and the millions of other unoriginal tossers.
    Yes quite. Who the fuck bases their footwear choice on the choices of the Prime Minister

    That said i think any man over 30 wearing trainers outside some kind of physical context - sports, hiking, gym, major family outing, house moving, etc - is somewhat suspect
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