Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

Starmer’s big tent politics just keeps getting bigger and bigger – politicalbetting.com

245

Comments

  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,325
    nico679 said:

    I can't say I'm impressed by Labour taking Elphicke but as she's not standing again Starmer probably thought 'wtf, why not?'

    I’m shocked but it was probably worth it for Starmer as her statement was pure gold in terms of criticisms of Sunak .
    It needs a pay off as it's pissed off a lot of his party
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,875

    kinabalu said:

    So. I do have to be honest here, and admit that I am getting quite discomforted by the growing feeling that I am not really sure what I am going to get when I vote in a Labour government.

    I still strongly believe that Labour are the only realistic choice for the country now, and I cannot support the Tories. But in moves like the defection I do fear that Starmer is starting to look like the same boss as before, his pitch simply being that he’ll manage things a bit more competently.

    Starmer is not going to be able to be all things to all people eventually. To govern is to choose. Will we get any kind of idea what choice that will be before we vote, or is that choice going to be made after the event? I do not really relish the idea of voting and not knowing what flavour of government I am going to get.

    Is there a policy that if it's adopted would reassure you on this front? Or is it more of a 'tone' thing?
    A very good question. I suspect more the latter. I think what I really want to see is Labour having an ambitious and hopeful plan for government that changes things. I get that they are worried about overcommitting, but I want to see that recognition that things aren’t working and that if they want to avoid continuing the decline they will have to put steps in place (even if they are baby steps) to start the recovery.

    The country’s problems will not be fixed overnight simply by planning reform, as good a policy as that might be. We need some more meat on the bones, but also a real understanding that we need change. It’s what the country wants and needs, it’s time to emphasise that. It’s not just about the Tories being useless at governing, it’s the fact that their policies don’t work, and won’t work.
    I feel the same really. It's just that being a party member, and also very anti-tory, my overriding desire is to see a big Labour win at the GE, and given SKS looks like delivering it I cut him lots of slack on his strategy and tactics at this point. Fwiw I'm quite hopeful about how he'll be once in power. I think he'll be more radical (in a good way) than people are assuming.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,428
    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,110
    One for @Leon :

    https://www.isomorphiclabs.com/articles/alphafold-3-predicts-the-structure-and-interactions-of-all-of-lifes-molecules

    AlphaFold 3 predicts the structure and interactions of all of life’s molecules

    Introducing AlphaFold 3, a new AI model developed by Isomorphic Labs and Google DeepMind. By accurately predicting the structure of proteins, DNA, RNA, ligands and more, and how they interact, we hope it will help to transform our understanding of the biological world and drug discovery.
    ...
    In a paper published in Nature, we introduce AlphaFold 3, a revolutionary model that can predict the structure and interactions of all life’s molecules with unprecedented accuracy. For the interactions of proteins with other molecule types we see at least a 50% improvement compared with existing prediction methods, and for some important categories of interaction we have doubled prediction accuracy.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,463
    Those Apple VR headsets are going to obsolete really quickly.

    Excited to share our new Nature paper! In this work, we propose a new display design that pairs inverse-designed metasurface waveguides with AI-driven holographic displays to enable full-color 3D augmented reality from a compact eyeglasses-like form factor...
    https://twitter.com/GordonWetzstein/status/1788239400025088501

    Metasurfaces with features at optical wavelengths are very useful. They'll soon replace most conventional camera lenses, too.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,769

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    And someone born today will almost certainly never have a petrol powered car.

    That's change, that is.
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,597
    If we thought the Greens were cynical....

    The reality now seems to be that Labour will hardly be the radical change the country needs. At least the Lib Dems want to change the system of government - major reform of the constitution including voting reform- what changes does SKS want to make, apart from the political brand in charge of the same old decay?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,463

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,463
    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    And someone born today will almost certainly never have a petrol powered car.

    That's change, that is.
    Most people born a decade ago, too.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,110
    Cicero said:

    If we thought the Greens were cynical....

    The reality now seems to be that Labour will hardly be the radical change the country needs. At least the Lib Dems want to change the system of government - major reform of the constitution including voting reform- what changes does SKS want to make, apart from the political brand in charge of the same old decay?

    But think how different life will be when you watch PMQ's and he's stood on the other side of the table. Real change. Important change.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,325
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    I can't say I'm impressed by Labour taking Elphicke but as she's not standing again Starmer probably thought 'wtf, why not?'

    I’m shocked but it was probably worth it for Starmer as her statement was pure gold in terms of criticisms of Sunak .
    It needs a pay off as it's pissed off a lot of his party
    The vast majority of the public haven’t got a clue who Elphicke is and will just see Tory MP defects to Labour .
    Yes, and he needs that to pay off because his party in Parliament etc do know who Natalie Elphicke is and some are less than happy.
    Personally I think he's fucked up big time but we will see.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,463
    ohnotnow said:

    One for @Leon :

    https://www.isomorphiclabs.com/articles/alphafold-3-predicts-the-structure-and-interactions-of-all-of-lifes-molecules

    AlphaFold 3 predicts the structure and interactions of all of life’s molecules

    Introducing AlphaFold 3, a new AI model developed by Isomorphic Labs and Google DeepMind. By accurately predicting the structure of proteins, DNA, RNA, ligands and more, and how they interact, we hope it will help to transform our understanding of the biological world and drug discovery.
    ...
    In a paper published in Nature, we introduce AlphaFold 3, a revolutionary model that can predict the structure and interactions of all life’s molecules with unprecedented accuracy. For the interactions of proteins with other molecule types we see at least a 50% improvement compared with existing prediction methods, and for some important categories of interaction we have doubled prediction accuracy.

    The headline is somewhat misleading; it's not quite there yet.
    And nowhere near predicting all the interactions. Though that's a task completely beyond AI-unassisted humans.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,748
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,492
    edited May 8
    Without being specific the next 5-10 years might see the most exciting technological leaps in the history of humanity. Indeed we are seeing some already. Its an incredibly stimulating and privileged time to be alive, for all the many problems we face
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,251

    Lord Kinnock not incredibly impressed by the defection
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1788244974535897233?s=19

    I am not impressed by the Welsh Windbag... I think that's a draw then
    Labour stalwarts protesting against the defection is all part of the strategy.

    They are playing into SKS hands.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,451

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    I can't say I'm impressed by Labour taking Elphicke but as she's not standing again Starmer probably thought 'wtf, why not?'

    I’m shocked but it was probably worth it for Starmer as her statement was pure gold in terms of criticisms of Sunak .
    It needs a pay off as it's pissed off a lot of his party
    The vast majority of the public haven’t got a clue who Elphicke is and will just see Tory MP defects to Labour .
    Yes, and he needs that to pay off because his party in Parliament etc do know who Natalie Elphicke is and some are less than happy.
    Personally I think he's fucked up big time but we will see.
    This won’t move a single vote for those that were going to vote Labour . And her trashing of Sunak on the borders is what Starmer wanted . Personally I wouldn’t have accepted her into the party but I’m not a duplicitous politician!
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,463

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    It's not the same mistake - if it's one at all.
    You're projecting back to predict ten years from now; that's definitely a mistake.
  • Options
    mickydroymickydroy Posts: 278
    A Poor decision imo, by Starmer, it makes no difference electorally so why bother. All it will do is piss his base off, and in two years time he is going to need that base, he can win without her intolerant opinions.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,764

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    So, you'll keep your present car?
    Or possibly buy a new one this year or next?
    After that I think electric cars will be so much better, cheaper and more fun that fossil burners.
    For transparency, I'm driving a Golf GTE plug in hybrid which I bought secondhand for the 'plug in' bit rather than the 'GT' bit. It switches quite seamlessly from electric to petrol when the electric range is reached and you can notice by the driving experience becoming less smooth.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,312
    Nigelb said:

    ohnotnow said:

    One for @Leon :

    https://www.isomorphiclabs.com/articles/alphafold-3-predicts-the-structure-and-interactions-of-all-of-lifes-molecules

    AlphaFold 3 predicts the structure and interactions of all of life’s molecules

    Introducing AlphaFold 3, a new AI model developed by Isomorphic Labs and Google DeepMind. By accurately predicting the structure of proteins, DNA, RNA, ligands and more, and how they interact, we hope it will help to transform our understanding of the biological world and drug discovery.
    ...
    In a paper published in Nature, we introduce AlphaFold 3, a revolutionary model that can predict the structure and interactions of all life’s molecules with unprecedented accuracy. For the interactions of proteins with other molecule types we see at least a 50% improvement compared with existing prediction methods, and for some important categories of interaction we have doubled prediction accuracy.

    The headline is somewhat misleading; it's not quite there yet.
    And nowhere near predicting all the interactions. Though that's a task completely beyond AI-unassisted humans.
    It would be nice if an AI could give us a clue about the origin of a virus which caused a pandemic and about 7 million deaths

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,769
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    And someone born today will almost certainly never have a petrol powered car.

    That's change, that is.
    Most people born a decade ago, too.
    Oh, it's pretty exciting.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,693
    ydoethur said:

    Er... wtf?

    Robert F Kennedy Jr says health issue caused by dead worm in his brain

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/08/robert-f-kennedy-jr-worm-brain

    Stupid old fool, to come up with such a daft lie.

    As if anyone will believe he has a brain.
    And you just know it’s one of those tequila worms that got in from some silly frat boy drinking game through his eye.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,748
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    It's not the same mistake - if it's one at all.
    You're projecting back to predict ten years from now; that's definitely a mistake.
    No. I'm saying people were very bullish about the tech, which was not as promising as the hype at the time stated. I think we're still in the same position: people are investing billions in the tech, and although good progress has been made, it's still nowhere near the hype.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,777
    If Suella Braverman, Miriam Cates, and Mark Francois can all join Natalie Elphicke in defecting then I will be joining JohnO in sharing a bottle of bubbly on Saturday.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,428
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    What's the point of being driven?. Driving is a pleasurable experience.. unless you are driving a shite car that is. .. or spending hours waiting for an injection of electricity.
  • Options
    lintolinto Posts: 34
    ydoethur said:

    Er... wtf?

    Robert F Kennedy Jr says health issue caused by dead worm in his brain

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/08/robert-f-kennedy-jr-worm-brain

    Stupid old fool, to come up with such a daft lie.

    As if anyone will believe he has a brain.
    It died of starvation.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,764

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    It's worth looking at some example drives with FSD 12.3.6.
    Admittedly it's California and I think it would have problems in English country roads and say Italy. However, version 12 is much better than the previous version and is improving all the time as the AI is trained on all the data from Tesla cars specifically edge cases.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVILrFldKVc
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,451
    mickydroy said:

    A Poor decision imo, by Starmer, it makes no difference electorally so why bother. All it will do is piss his base off, and in two years time he is going to need that base, he can win without her intolerant opinions.

    You’d be surprised how forgiving Labour people can be when someone who they hated previously trashes the current PM and more especially his so called strong on borders policy . I never could stand Elphicke but , the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,325
    nico679 said:

    mickydroy said:

    A Poor decision imo, by Starmer, it makes no difference electorally so why bother. All it will do is piss his base off, and in two years time he is going to need that base, he can win without her intolerant opinions.

    You’d be surprised how forgiving Labour people can be when someone who they hated previously trashes the current PM and more especially his so called strong on borders policy . I never could stand Elphicke but , the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Some of the briefings being given to journos by her new friends are ummmm less than friendly
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,046
    mickydroy said:

    A Poor decision imo, by Starmer, it makes no difference electorally so why bother. All it will do is piss his base off, and in two years time he is going to need that base, he can win without her intolerant opinions.

    There are no intolerant opinions on the Far Left?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,251

    Lord Kinnock not incredibly impressed by the defection
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1788244974535897233?s=19

    "You end up with the grotesque chaos of a Labour Opposition – a Labour Opposition – hiring taxis to scuttle round London picking up Tory MPs for photo sessions with the leader."
    Very good.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,251

    If Suella Braverman, Miriam Cates, and Mark Francois can all join Natalie Elphicke in defecting then I will be joining JohnO in sharing a bottle of bubbly on Saturday.

    Maybe John McDonnell could join the Tories and restart his bromance with Michael Gove.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,492

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    I was over-optimistic about self driving. I am always over-optimistic - but I wasn’t wrong. It is coming

    You entirely dismissed the idea we would have reliable machine translation. lol
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,769

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    It's not the same mistake - if it's one at all.
    You're projecting back to predict ten years from now; that's definitely a mistake.
    No. I'm saying people were very bullish about the tech, which was not as promising as the hype at the time stated. I think we're still in the same position: people are investing billions in the tech, and although good progress has been made, it's still nowhere near the hype.
    It's a classic 99% technology (like speech recognition). It's easy to get to 99%, which makes you think you're nearly there... but the last 1% is really hard.

    My Rivian's "self driving", aka Driver Plus, is pretty good. It's great for allowing me to change the track, or to remove the wrapper from a chocolate bar.

    But the problem is that it's nowhere near good enough for me to sleep or to work. And if I'm not sleeping or working, then I might as well be driving. Otherwise I'm just going to be bored.

    It's all about that last 1%.

    And so far - if you want that last 1% - then you need the sensor crazy vehicles that Waymo use as taxis in Los Angeles. (And that in turn is a hard sell. Because a taxi driver's time is cheap. And those sensors are expensive.)
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,000
    edited May 8
    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    And someone born today will almost certainly never have a petrol powered car.

    That's change, that is.
    One thing that is disappearing is manual transmissions. Between electric vehicles, hybrids of various types and conventional automatics, manuals must be just 20% or so of new vehicle sales.

    I dont think either of my boys will ever drive one. No double declutching for them.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,769

    Lord Kinnock not incredibly impressed by the defection
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1788244974535897233?s=19

    "You end up with the grotesque chaos of a Labour Opposition – a Labour Opposition – hiring taxis to scuttle round London picking up Tory MPs for photo sessions with the leader."
    I'd say "spectacle" rather than "chaos", but otherwise very funny.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,748

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    It's worth looking at some example drives with FSD 12.3.6.
    Admittedly it's California and I think it would have problems in English country roads and say Italy. However, version 12 is much better than the previous version and is improving all the time as the AI is trained on all the data from Tesla cars specifically edge cases.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVILrFldKVc
    That's Whole Mars Catalog... a MuskyBaby/Tesla hype channel that I reckon just exists to ramp their shares. There are plenty of videos of FSD failing, as well.
  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,063
    Only when and if we see the David Gauke's of this world back as Tory MPs, will I believe the party has put its sensible and fit to govern hat back on.

    Not holding my breath.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,730
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    I was over-optimistic about self driving. I am always over-optimistic - but I wasn’t wrong. It is coming

    You entirely dismissed the idea we would have reliable machine translation. lol
    You do have your bursts of over-pessimism tbf, for which PB braces itself.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,951

    Lord Kinnock not incredibly impressed by the defection
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1788244974535897233?s=19

    I am not impressed by the Welsh Windbag... I think that's a draw then
    Labour stalwarts protesting against the defection is all part of the strategy.

    They are playing into SKS hands.
    Careful. BJO may start asking you to explain yourself at every turn.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,033
    edited May 8
    Steve Baker and others on Elphicke


    On 8 May 2024, Elphicke defected to the Labour Party in reaction to what she described as the "broken promises of Rishi Sunak's tired and chaotic government".

    She crossed the floor moments before that day's Prime Minister's Questions.[32] She was the third Conservative MP to cross the floor to Labour during that parliament, following Christian Wakeford in 2022 and Dan Poulter eleven days prior.[33]

    Reflecting on the defection, Steve Baker, the Minister of State, Northern Ireland, commented on Twitter

    "I have been searching in vain for a Conservative MP who thinks themself to the right of Natalie Elphicke.

    One just quipped, 'I didn’t realise there was any room to her right.'"

    Left-wing group Momentum said that Elphicke should have "no place in a Labour Party committed to progressive values and working-class people".
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,380
    FWIW I think Starmer has made a mistake on this one.

    Doesn't any new member have to agree to the list of aspirations/key policies on some kind of card (used to be all that Clause 4 stuff)?

    Does Ms Dover agree with any of it????

  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 19,276
    "Today has been one of the most hugely damaging to Labour since the 1980s."

    Never knowingly understated.....
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,527
    mickydroy said:

    A Poor decision imo, by Starmer, it makes no difference electorally so why bother. All it will do is piss his base off, and in two years time he is going to need that base, he can win without her intolerant opinions.

    I tend to think it doesn't matter strategically (rather than morally) either way other than to put the Tories into yet more disarray. Guessing it was planned before the locals as it could have been a rather useful distraction if had not done quite as well as they did. As it turned out, they didn't really need it. But adds to the turmoil in the Tory ranks and makes any recovery marginally less likely.

    In two years Starmer will be the first Labour PM not named 'Tony' to win an election who was born since the end of the First World War and will have earned a significant amount of goodwill from all Labour supporters who don't pine for Jeremy Corbyn (who'd find a reason to hate him) due to that fact. He'll then either disappoint them or pleasantly surprise them. Whether he parked his morals for a week's good defection headlines will be long forgotten as she's not standing next time.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,033
    Roger said:

    "Today has been one of the most hugely damaging to Labour since the 1980s."

    Never knowingly understated.....

    Especially as Elphicke specifically stated in her piece that Starmer has accepted Brexit which I would suggest will infuriate a large number of labour supporters who are remainers in large numbers
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,875
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    I was over-optimistic about self driving. I am always over-optimistic - but I wasn’t wrong. It is coming

    You entirely dismissed the idea we would have reliable machine translation. lol
    What about relative optimism? Eg what comes first iyo - self driving cars or a proper hard right government?
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,325

    FWIW I think Starmer has made a mistake on this one.

    Doesn't any new member have to agree to the list of aspirations/key policies on some kind of card (used to be all that Clause 4 stuff)?

    Does Ms Dover agree with any of it????

    Good luck to the whips getting her through the lobbies on just about anything
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,918
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    I dont get the issue. I drive a hybrid (not a plug in, so ‘mild’). Essentially a really efficient petrol car (56 mpg for an Auris estate). The drive system is all electric, so no gears, really smooth. Engine charges the batteries. It can do about 8 miles on full charge, but it’s not designed fit that.

    Why not drive one of those?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,777
    They deserve to be imprisoned for their fashion choices.

    A married couple have pleaded guilty to carrying out a string of “dine-and-dash” incidents in Wales, leaving restaurants more than £1,000 out of pocket.

    Bernard McDonagh, 41, and his wife Ann, 39, admitted leaving five restaurants without paying and racking up a total bill of £1,168.10, Swansea magistrates’ court heard.

    They face the prospect of prison when they are sentenced later in May 2024.

    Bernard McDonagh, wearing a pink polo shirt with a grey tweed blazer and navy trousers, covered his face with his hand as he entered the court on Wednesday morning. Ann McDonagh similarly covered up her face with her parka coat hood and hand.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/08/dine-and-dash-mcdonaghs-admit-fraud-swansea-court/
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,730

    Roger said:

    "Today has been one of the most hugely damaging to Labour since the 1980s."

    Never knowingly understated.....

    Especially as Elphicke specifically stated in her piece that Starmer has accepted Brexit which I would suggest will infuriate a large number of labour supporters who are remainers in large numbers
    Starmer pretty happy to have his Brexit polished I would imagine.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,559

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    What's the point of being driven?. Driving is a pleasurable experience.. unless you are driving a shite car that is. .. or spending hours waiting for an injection of electricity.
    I would rather read, or sleep, or look out of the side of the car, or even catch up on PB, than have to expend effort on driving.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,111
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    I was over-optimistic about self driving. I am always over-optimistic - but I wasn’t wrong. It is coming

    You entirely dismissed the idea we would have reliable machine translation. lol
    It really isnt coming for the simple reason the first time an autonomous car mows down a pedestrian it will be halted and in the courts for 5 or 6 decades deciding who's fault it is.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,559
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    I was over-optimistic about self driving. I am always over-optimistic - but I wasn’t wrong. It is coming

    You entirely dismissed the idea we would have reliable machine translation. lol
    It really isnt coming for the simple reason the first time an autonomous car mows down a pedestrian it will be halted and in the courts for 5 or 6 decades deciding who's fault it is.
    The car companies will persuade MPs to settle that in their favour in legislation.
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,599
    edited May 8
    FWIW, a WaPo reporter investigated the used electric car market in the US, and found many, including one at $2100. You don't get much car for that price, granted, but it might be enough of a car for someone who needs it for short trips, once or twice a week.

    And the used electric cars going for, say, 10K in a few years, might actually be good deals for many families.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,158
    rcs1000 said:

    Lord Kinnock not incredibly impressed by the defection
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1788244974535897233?s=19

    "You end up with the grotesque chaos of a Labour Opposition – a Labour Opposition – hiring taxis to scuttle round London picking up Tory MPs for photo sessions with the leader."
    I'd say "spectacle" rather than "chaos", but otherwise very funny.
    Chaos = unsteady state of (as yet) remaining Tory MPs and their (as yet) Leader and (as yet) PM.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 19,276
    edited May 8

    They deserve to be imprisoned for their fashion choices.

    A married couple have pleaded guilty to carrying out a string of “dine-and-dash” incidents in Wales, leaving restaurants more than £1,000 out of pocket.

    Bernard McDonagh, 41, and his wife Ann, 39, admitted leaving five restaurants without paying and racking up a total bill of £1,168.10, Swansea magistrates’ court heard.

    They face the prospect of prison when they are sentenced later in May 2024.

    Bernard McDonagh, wearing a pink polo shirt with a grey tweed blazer and navy trousers, covered his face with his hand as he entered the court on Wednesday morning. Ann McDonagh similarly covered up her face with her parka coat hood and hand.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/08/dine-and-dash-mcdonaghs-admit-fraud-swansea-court/

    ....a string of....looks like they've rifled a pork pie factory
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,264
    NEW: Keir Starmer's spokesperson refuses to rule out welcoming Nigel Farage into the Labour Party.

    "We have conversations with all sorts of people who want to come and support the party" said the spokesperson.

    (Via
    @AdamBienkov
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 13,153
    Roger said:

    "Today has been one of the most hugely damaging to Labour since the 1980s."

    Never knowingly understated.....

    Not really - Elphicke's defection will be forgotten in a week.

    She's not seeking to be Labour candidate for Dover - Labour have a seemingly good candidate in place and on the current polling will take the seat comfortably.

    Deltapoll a little better for the Conservatives this week but all within Margin of Error - still a 17 point Labour lead and the numbers almost identical to the More In Common poll earlier in the week.

    No obvious sign the local elections have had much impact but early days yet.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,748
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    I was over-optimistic about self driving. I am always over-optimistic - but I wasn’t wrong. It is coming

    You entirely dismissed the idea we would have reliable machine translation. lol
    When did I dismiss that idea? I'm not dismissing the idea that it *may* happen; or that autonomous cars may happen. In fact, I hope they do. But not in the sort of stoopid hype-driven fever-dreams you suffer from. They're much further out than the hype-merchants say.

    (And I'd be dubious about 'reliable' in your comment above.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,111

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    I was over-optimistic about self driving. I am always over-optimistic - but I wasn’t wrong. It is coming

    You entirely dismissed the idea we would have reliable machine translation. lol
    It really isnt coming for the simple reason the first time an autonomous car mows down a pedestrian it will be halted and in the courts for 5 or 6 decades deciding who's fault it is.
    The car companies will persuade MPs to settle that in their favour in legislation.
    Hmmm I doubt it imagine the headlines from oppositional dailies..."Governement grants autonomous car companies 00 status....licence to kill"
  • Options
    CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 399
    This is starmer taking scalps and gutting the tory party. Total domination. It is pure spectacle. The MP in question will not be running in the GE and does not represent any faction in the party. If I were Sunak, I would begin worrying about how many more defections will be coming. It should become really ugly.

    By the way, I called the risk of galloping defections from con to lab in one of my first posts here on PB this winter. I will see if I can find it.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,748
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    I was over-optimistic about self driving. I am always over-optimistic - but I wasn’t wrong. It is coming

    You entirely dismissed the idea we would have reliable machine translation. lol
    It really isnt coming for the simple reason the first time an autonomous car mows down a pedestrian it will be halted and in the courts for 5 or 6 decades deciding who's fault it is.
    The car companies will persuade MPs to settle that in their favour in legislation.
    Hmmm I doubt it imagine the headlines from oppositional dailies..."Governement grants autonomous car companies 00 status....licence to kill"
    Liability's also an issue. When (and it will be a 'when') an MCAS_style issue occurs, or when the ML algorithm f**ks up, who is responsible for the deaths? The car owner? The driver? The manufacturer? (*). And as it is a ML system, how easy is it to go back to work out *why* it did what it did - which can be non-trivial in many systems.

    (*) ISTR Volvo have accepted that they will be responsible, but have other manufacturers?
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,384

    NEW: Keir Starmer's spokesperson refuses to rule out welcoming Nigel Farage into the Labour Party.

    "We have conversations with all sorts of people who want to come and support the party" said the spokesperson.

    (Via
    @AdamBienkov

    Likely Starmer reckons the left-wing splits and entryists are going nowhere. Based on this week at least he seems right. Galloway back to condemning homosexuality, and so-called Greens screaming Allahu Akbar to cheer on the Hamas fightback.
  • Options
    CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 399
    I called these events in my very first post and since in March

    "Wow the first poll after the budget has the tories 28% behind at 18% I wonder if discipline can be maintained in the tory party or if events overtake Sunak and the conservatives just crumble before summer. I mean if I were an MP I would begin to think about defection to save my skin.... they are clearly holed below the…
    in We need more bureaucracy – politicalbetting.com Comment by Cleitophon March 8"

    "Sunak's hand could be forced if there is a sudden defection of red seat MPs or a spliter group insist on forming a new party on the right.
    in My guess: Sunak will wait until 2025 for the election – politicalbetting.com Comment by Cleitophon July 2023"
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,111

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    I was over-optimistic about self driving. I am always over-optimistic - but I wasn’t wrong. It is coming

    You entirely dismissed the idea we would have reliable machine translation. lol
    It really isnt coming for the simple reason the first time an autonomous car mows down a pedestrian it will be halted and in the courts for 5 or 6 decades deciding who's fault it is.
    The car companies will persuade MPs to settle that in their favour in legislation.
    Hmmm I doubt it imagine the headlines from oppositional dailies..."Governement grants autonomous car companies 00 status....licence to kill"
    Liability's also an issue. When (and it will be a 'when') an MCAS_style issue occurs, or when the ML algorithm f**ks up, who is responsible for the deaths? The car owner? The driver? The manufacturer? (*). And as it is a ML system, how easy is it to go back to work out *why* it did what it did - which can be non-trivial in many systems.

    (*) ISTR Volvo have accepted that they will be responsible, but have other manufacturers?
    And good luck to them trying to explain that running over a couple of pedestrians meant a probable less death count than swerving the other way into incoming traffic.

    Autononomous driving when it gets there will probably be safer all round. However when it does fuck up and it will expect the lawsuits to bankrupt companies especially in the us.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 19,276
    Good question by Cathy Newman. "What does it tell you about Keir Starmer's Labour Party that you can find a place for Natalie Elphicke but not Diane Abbott"
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Sir Keir would have looked really strong had he rejected Elphicke's come & get me plea. Has a party ever refused to take a defector?
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,502

    They deserve to be imprisoned for their fashion choices.

    A married couple have pleaded guilty to carrying out a string of “dine-and-dash” incidents in Wales, leaving restaurants more than £1,000 out of pocket.

    Bernard McDonagh, 41, and his wife Ann, 39, admitted leaving five restaurants without paying and racking up a total bill of £1,168.10, Swansea magistrates’ court heard.

    They face the prospect of prison when they are sentenced later in May 2024.

    Bernard McDonagh, wearing a pink polo shirt with a grey tweed blazer and navy trousers, covered his face with his hand as he entered the court on Wednesday morning. Ann McDonagh similarly covered up her face with her parka coat hood and hand.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/08/dine-and-dash-mcdonaghs-admit-fraud-swansea-court/

    Not sure what the point of prison is with this one. Compensation (5x the bills?), community service and a threat of prison for further offences combined with national shaming seems plenty.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,451
    Seems to be a lot of pearl clutching re Elphicke . Am I happy no , I wouldn’t have admitted her to the party . It’s a blatant appeal to white van man and the Red Wall . But I understand why it was done but I’d much rather in future any Tory MPs defecting were more easy to stomach
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,777
    nico679 said:

    Seems to be a lot of pearl clutching re Elphicke . Am I happy no , I wouldn’t have admitted her to the party . It’s a blatant appeal to white van man and the Red Wall . But I understand why it was done but I’d much rather in future any Tory MPs defecting were more easy to stomach

    You'll be singing the Red Flag when Suella Braverman and Mark Francois defect.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,451

    NEW: Keir Starmer's spokesperson refuses to rule out welcoming Nigel Farage into the Labour Party.

    "We have conversations with all sorts of people who want to come and support the party" said the spokesperson.

    (Via
    @AdamBienkov

    That’s a red line . If Farage was allowed in that would be it for me . We all have our limits.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,965

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    What's the point of being driven?. Driving is a pleasurable experience.. unless you are driving a shite car that is. .. or spending hours waiting for an injection of electricity.
    I would rather read, or sleep, or look out of the side of the car, or even catch up on PB, than have to expend effort on driving.
    I enjoy driving too.

    But 23 hours a day I am not driving. My car is the second most expensive thing I own and owning it is a massive waste of resources. And other people's parked cars are cluttering up the streets.
    Autonomous cars which turn up when we need them and go away when we do not can make us richer and our lives more pleasant.
    Also, I like drinking, and needing to drivr inhibits this.
    Also, many people e.g. my 14 year old daughter, for whom I have taken three hours out of my day to drive her to climbing and back - cannot drive. Extending mobility beyond the 70% of us with a driving license or the 65% with access to a car has to be a good thing.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,777
    isam said:

    Sir Keir would have looked really strong had he rejected Elphicke's come & get me plea. Has a party ever refused to take a defector?

    It has never been confirmed but there were strong rumours that Reform turned down Andrew Bridgen.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 12,110
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,559
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    I was over-optimistic about self driving. I am always over-optimistic - but I wasn’t wrong. It is coming

    You entirely dismissed the idea we would have reliable machine translation. lol
    It really isnt coming for the simple reason the first time an autonomous car mows down a pedestrian it will be halted and in the courts for 5 or 6 decades deciding who's fault it is.
    The car companies will persuade MPs to settle that in their favour in legislation.
    Hmmm I doubt it imagine the headlines from oppositional dailies..."Governement grants autonomous car companies 00 status....licence to kill"
    It will be about limited liability, ultimate responsibility for safety lying with the operator, commissions caused by the random human factor, etc.

    And the car companies are plenty able to buy commentators in the papers, the same as companies have done to defend fossil fuels and what have you.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,748

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    I was over-optimistic about self driving. I am always over-optimistic - but I wasn’t wrong. It is coming

    You entirely dismissed the idea we would have reliable machine translation. lol
    It really isnt coming for the simple reason the first time an autonomous car mows down a pedestrian it will be halted and in the courts for 5 or 6 decades deciding who's fault it is.
    The car companies will persuade MPs to settle that in their favour in legislation.
    Hmmm I doubt it imagine the headlines from oppositional dailies..."Governement grants autonomous car companies 00 status....licence to kill"
    It will be about limited liability, ultimate responsibility for safety lying with the operator, commissions caused by the random human factor, etc.

    And the car companies are plenty able to buy commentators in the papers, the same as companies have done to defend fossil fuels and what have you.
    That power hasn't worked very well for Boeing...
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 12,110

    They deserve to be imprisoned for their fashion choices.

    A married couple have pleaded guilty to carrying out a string of “dine-and-dash” incidents in Wales, leaving restaurants more than £1,000 out of pocket.

    Bernard McDonagh, 41, and his wife Ann, 39, admitted leaving five restaurants without paying and racking up a total bill of £1,168.10, Swansea magistrates’ court heard.

    They face the prospect of prison when they are sentenced later in May 2024.

    Bernard McDonagh, wearing a pink polo shirt with a grey tweed blazer and navy trousers, covered his face with his hand as he entered the court on Wednesday morning. Ann McDonagh similarly covered up her face with her parka coat hood and hand.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/08/dine-and-dash-mcdonaghs-admit-fraud-swansea-court/

    Not sure what the point of prison is with this one. Compensation (5x the bills?), community service and a threat of prison for further offences combined with national shaming seems plenty.
    The woman has also admitted a few instances of shoplifting as well. She may well end up inside.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 13,153

    nico679 said:

    Seems to be a lot of pearl clutching re Elphicke . Am I happy no , I wouldn’t have admitted her to the party . It’s a blatant appeal to white van man and the Red Wall . But I understand why it was done but I’d much rather in future any Tory MPs defecting were more easy to stomach

    You'll be singing the Red Flag when Suella Braverman and Mark Francois defect.
    As long as they do and publicly admit the right-wing excesses of their previous life and accept the Starmerite road to world domination...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,769
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    I was over-optimistic about self driving. I am always over-optimistic - but I wasn’t wrong. It is coming

    You entirely dismissed the idea we would have reliable machine translation. lol
    It really isnt coming for the simple reason the first time an autonomous car mows down a pedestrian it will be halted and in the courts for 5 or 6 decades deciding who's fault it is.
    Autonomous vehicles have mowed down lots of pedestrians in the US.

    And yet they continue to proliferate (albeit slowly).
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,502

    nico679 said:

    Seems to be a lot of pearl clutching re Elphicke . Am I happy no , I wouldn’t have admitted her to the party . It’s a blatant appeal to white van man and the Red Wall . But I understand why it was done but I’d much rather in future any Tory MPs defecting were more easy to stomach

    You'll be singing the Red Flag when Suella Braverman and Mark Francois defect.
    Bound to be all flags with those two for sure.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,451
    edited May 8
    I don’t think parties ever refuse defectors . The “I’ve seen the light and realize now my old party is utter crap “ is not to be sniffed at . It’s a bit more complicated with Elphicke as she has more personal baggage related to her ex-husband .

  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,111
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    I was over-optimistic about self driving. I am always over-optimistic - but I wasn’t wrong. It is coming

    You entirely dismissed the idea we would have reliable machine translation. lol
    It really isnt coming for the simple reason the first time an autonomous car mows down a pedestrian it will be halted and in the courts for 5 or 6 decades deciding who's fault it is.
    Autonomous vehicles have mowed down lots of pedestrians in the US.

    And yet they continue to proliferate (albeit slowly).
    Well the us is used to death, isnt it 30k a year road casualties, plus mass shootings etc
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,875
    MJW said:

    mickydroy said:

    A Poor decision imo, by Starmer, it makes no difference electorally so why bother. All it will do is piss his base off, and in two years time he is going to need that base, he can win without her intolerant opinions.

    I tend to think it doesn't matter strategically (rather than morally) either way other than to put the Tories into yet more disarray. Guessing it was planned before the locals as it could have been a rather useful distraction if had not done quite as well as they did. As it turned out, they didn't really need it. But adds to the turmoil in the Tory ranks and makes any recovery marginally less likely.

    In two years Starmer will be the first Labour PM not named 'Tony' to win an election who was born since the end of the First World War and will have earned a significant amount of goodwill from all Labour supporters who don't pine for Jeremy Corbyn (who'd find a reason to hate him) due to that fact. He'll then either disappoint them or pleasantly surprise them. Whether he parked his morals for a week's good defection headlines will be long forgotten as she's not standing next time.
    The mutual loathing of Blairites and Corbynites is intense. When Jezza was in charge the Blairites preferred a Tory government and worked for that outcome. Now it's roles reversed and the same with the Corbynites. They want the Tories to win. They're working for the Tories to win. I've got zero patience with it.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,965
    Roger said:

    Good question by Cathy Newman. "What does it tell you about Keir Starmer's Labour Party that you can find a place for Natalie Elphicke but not Diane Abbott"

    That it still has some standards?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,748
    The comments on road.cc over the Huntingdon cyclist death are quite something.

    https://road.cc/content/news/auriol-grey-manslaughter-conviction-overturned-308257
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,452
    Only just caught up with the Elphicke news. To be honest I’m not sure I’d want any more defectors.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 48,080
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I think my next car will be a plug-in hybrid, but only because they no longer sell the non-hybrid version

    Well that's hardly surprising. I will never have a hybrid nor an electric car unless I am priced out fuel. I won't be or very much doubt i will be driving in 2050.
    How about ten years from now ?

    Though you'll possibly be driven by, rather than driving a car.
    Oh dear, don't make the same mistake Leon did. Over a decade ago, he said all truck drivers would be out of a job in ten years. He was hilariously wrong.

    I am very bearish on autonomous driving - at least in the level-5 category, which is the really useful one. We're nowhere near it yet for most purposes, despite what Musky Baby says.
    I was over-optimistic about self driving. I am always over-optimistic - but I wasn’t wrong. It is coming

    You entirely dismissed the idea we would have reliable machine translation. lol
    It really isnt coming for the simple reason the first time an autonomous car mows down a pedestrian it will be halted and in the courts for 5 or 6 decades deciding who's fault it is.
    Autonomous vehicles have mowed down lots of pedestrians in the US.

    And yet they continue to proliferate (albeit slowly).
    What pedestrians?
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,965
    stodge said:

    Roger said:

    "Today has been one of the most hugely damaging to Labour since the 1980s."

    Never knowingly understated.....

    Not really - Elphicke's defection will be forgotten in a week.

    She's not seeking to be Labour candidate for Dover - Labour have a seemingly good candidate in place and on the current polling will take the seat comfortably.

    Deltapoll a little better for the Conservatives this week but all within Margin of Error - still a 17 point Labour lead and the numbers almost identical to the More In Common poll earlier in the week.

    No obvious sign the local elections have had much impact but early days yet.
    In support of Roger, I think he is disputing MoonRabbit's point that this is the worst day for Labour - not claiming so himself.
  • Options
    Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,840
    Roger said:

    Good question by Cathy Newman. "What does it tell you about Keir Starmer's Labour Party that you can find a place for Natalie Elphicke but not Diane Abbott"

    Gentlemen prefer blondes.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,325
    edited May 8
    Mick Whitley MP for Birkenhead breaks cover 'her views are not the views of the Labour Party and she does not belong in the Labour Party'
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 48,080
    nico679 said:

    I don’t think parties ever refuse defectors . The “I’ve seen the light and realize now my old party is utter crap “ is not to be sniffed at . It’s a bit more complicated with Elphicke as she has more personal baggage related to her ex-husband .

    As I remember from pre-coalition and alliance days, defectors were very often more trouble than they are worth. The payoff is the publicity boost at the time; the trouble and price come later. Labour is OK provided the Dover MP doesn’t want anything, hasn’t been promised anything, and intends to keep a low profile and serve out her term.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,559

    This is starmer taking scalps and gutting the tory party. Total domination. It is pure spectacle. The MP in question will not be running in the GE and does not represent any faction in the party. If I were Sunak, I would begin worrying about how many more defections will be coming. It should become really ugly.

    By the way, I called the risk of galloping defections from con to lab in one of my first posts here on PB this winter. I will see if I can find it.

    We've often talked about the voters having less tribal identity, and so larger swings in voting intention being possible. But your post makes me consider that MPs are people too, and so they also may have a weaker tribal identity, and large numbers of defections may be more likely than in the past.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,634

    Mick Whitley MP for Birkenhead breaks cover 'her views are not the views of the Labour Party and she does not belong in the Labour Party'

    I'm surprised she didn't defect to Reform UK instead of Labour.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,210
    Elphicke is on the right of the Conservative Party so seems a strange defectio indeed, especially as she has said she will not stand for re election in her marginal seat anyway. Perhaps she feels joining Labour will distance herself from her former Tory MP ex husband, whose seat she inherited after his conviction for sexual assault
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,325
    Jess Phillips is one to watch for reaction, I Imagine she's spitting feathers
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,769
    Andy_JS said:

    Mick Whitley MP for Birkenhead breaks cover 'her views are not the views of the Labour Party and she does not belong in the Labour Party'

    I'm surprised she didn't defect to Reform UK instead of Labour.
    Maybe she just got confused. You know how it is.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,325
    Maybe Keir has Bibi lined up to defect next week, MTG for Whitsun
This discussion has been closed.