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Comments

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412

    Leon said:

    My usual French food experience so far on this trip

    Traditional Parisian brasserie food: as good as ever. Red velvet banquettes. Steak tartare and chips. Brilliantly warming onion soup with cheesy croutons. Its not going to get noticed but often its all you want and need

    Cheap fast food: same as everywhere - everyone in Paris now goes to Pret A Manger. The symbol of new globalisation. A British sandwich chain with a French name now colonising Paris

    Now I’m in a locally celebrated hotel-restaurant in Brittany. It’s ambitious and a tiny bit fusion. And it’s decidedly meh. Fussy yet under flavoured and you’d almost certainly get better in the British equivalent

    If you're reduced to eating the banquettes, I say get yourself on a flight and back to a civilised country before you starve.
    The blanquettes however can be very nice.
    And the omelettes. And the baguettes. Do not be tempted to eat your fourchette though.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    It's your job to write 1,000 entertaining words about something or other. It's no wonder that there has to be a bit of creative liberty taken with the contents.

    Paris is fine. Just as it's always been. No huge change. But I look forward to reading your piece on it, you super-noticer, you.
    Remember how I noticed the necklace. And think on that
    Is the any evidence that you are correct in the necklace claim?
    Yes
    Well what is it then? Saying ‘yes’ is NOT evidence.
    A chain of reasoning.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson told me he wished he was black, claims journalist

    Afua Hirsch says former PM made ‘problematic remarks’ about her in 2008 in the presence of his then-wife Marina Wheeler

    Amy Gibbons"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/22/boris-johnson-ex-wife-marina-wheeler-wished-he-was-black/

    Genuine question for the club - why is race fluidity not acceptable?

    We live in an era where people sun tan themselves a darker shade without a thought. Fake tan is all over the place. There are tons of skin lightening products out there.

    I’m quite certain, silly Michael Jackson comments aside, that lots of people have had cosmetic surgery to appear more like a different ethnic group.
    You don't necessarily even go down the path of using cosmetics to change skin pigmentation.

    In this era anyone can be whatever they want/claim to be.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    It's your job to write 1,000 entertaining words about something or other. It's no wonder that there has to be a bit of creative liberty taken with the contents.

    Paris is fine. Just as it's always been. No huge change. But I look forward to reading your piece on it, you super-noticer, you.
    Remember how I noticed the necklace. And think on that
    Is the any evidence that you are correct in the necklace claim?
    Yes
    Well what is it then? Saying ‘yes’ is NOT evidence.
    I am not at liberty to say and @TSE has a hard enough job - unpaid - without me bringing lawyers in so I will stay quiet. I have privately given evidence to others - and been given it
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    It's your job to write 1,000 entertaining words about something or other. It's no wonder that there has to be a bit of creative liberty taken with the contents.

    Paris is fine. Just as it's always been. No huge change. But I look forward to reading your piece on it, you super-noticer, you.
    I haven't been in a few years, but I think it isn't that Paris has become dirtier and more gritty, nor Rome or New York, its that the centre of London has become less dirty and gritty, so we notice the contrast more.
    Maybe. There has been large scale Magreb immigration into Paris for years (the infamous banlieues, etc). This is just how a capital city develops. Head to Marble Arch any day of the week and you will see congregations of different types just hanging out. For goodness sake don't go to Speakers' Corner now it is bonkers.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson told me he wished he was black, claims journalist

    Afua Hirsch says former PM made ‘problematic remarks’ about her in 2008 in the presence of his then-wife Marina Wheeler

    Amy Gibbons"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/22/boris-johnson-ex-wife-marina-wheeler-wished-he-was-black/

    Genuine question for the club - why is race fluidity not acceptable?

    We live in an era where people sun tan themselves a darker shade without a thought. Fake tan is all over the place. There are tons of skin lightening products out there.

    I’m quite certain, silly Michael Jackson comments aside, that lots of people have had cosmetic surgery to appear more like a different ethnic group.
    You don't necessarily even go down the path of using cosmetics to change skin pigmentation.

    In this era anyone can be whatever they want/claim to be.
    Poor old Rachel Dolezal. A martyr before her time.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    It's your job to write 1,000 entertaining words about something or other. It's no wonder that there has to be a bit of creative liberty taken with the contents.

    Paris is fine. Just as it's always been. No huge change. But I look forward to reading your piece on it, you super-noticer, you.
    I haven't been in a few years, but I think it isn't that Paris has become dirtier and more gritty, nor Rome or New York, its that the centre of London has become less dirty and gritty, so we notice the contrast more.
    London is certainly cleaner than it was 10-15 years ago when I worked there.

    Could it be that Khan's changes leave ULEZ grimy?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    TOPPING said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson told me he wished he was black, claims journalist

    Afua Hirsch says former PM made ‘problematic remarks’ about her in 2008 in the presence of his then-wife Marina Wheeler

    Amy Gibbons"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/22/boris-johnson-ex-wife-marina-wheeler-wished-he-was-black/

    Genuine question for the club - why is race fluidity not acceptable?

    We live in an era where people sun tan themselves a darker shade without a thought. Fake tan is all over the place. There are tons of skin lightening products out there.

    I’m quite certain, silly Michael Jackson comments aside, that lots of people have had cosmetic surgery to appear more like a different ethnic group.
    You don't necessarily even go down the path of using cosmetics to change skin pigmentation.

    In this era anyone can be whatever they want/claim to be.
    Poor old Rachel Dolezal. A martyr before her time.
    Quite probably, in all seriousness.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    edited April 22
    Ok I need to watch Masterchef and chill. A long day and another one tomorrow. But great days. I still can’t believe I am paid to do this, even tho I’ve been doing it for nearly 40 years

    Eeek



    Bon nuit
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited April 22
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I’ve never been to church other than weddings, funerals or christenings but, as someone who is sad that Christianity is no longer going to be the dominant faith in England when my kids are grown up, I feel I should start.

    I won’t though, the same way I like the independent shops in our High St and still order stuff cheaper online. When they’re gone I’ll miss them & complaint that people never used them, as my houses value plummets

    https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/why-are-all-the-pubs-closing-ask-people-who-never-go-to-the-pub-200903051623
    Very true.

    I think it was Peter Hitchens who said we are basking in the afterglow of the old Christian England, but by doing nothing to preserve it we are destroying it.
    The problem is you can't really pretend to believe in something. Going to church when you don't believe in any of it would be slightly ridiculous.
    In rural areas some small villages and hamlets no longer even have a pub or shop or school now but they still have a Parish church (even if they only get a service there once a month on rotation). Going to their local church is therefore one of the few ways they meet other members of the village or hamlet reasonably regularly in person
    You obviously don't live in one. Small villages and hamlets all have very lively and active whatsapp and facebook groups and organise all kinds of activities. Moreso if they are smaller. Going to the local church absolutely does bring a small percentage of them together, and activities are often arranged about the church but you are as likely to have gardening groups and arts & crafts and coffee mornings and "Women of...." groups also.

    You should get out more. The church is a teeny tiny part of modern rural life.
    I do now, indeed one with no pub and no post office and no shops now within it (although it still has a church and village hall which does amateur drama and a bit of table tennis). Yes it has a Facebook group but mainly for identifying flooding problems, crime, litter etc in the area.

    There is a horticulture group but based in the next village not this one
    You will know then that the members of the horticulture group span the closest five villages to where you are. Likewise the other groups. There is a real sense of community, albeit online. Plus the coffee mornings and so forth.

    You live in such a village. How many people (as a percentage of the village) go to church. I would say each week but as like as not your village church doesn't have a service every week but shares its vic with the neighbouring churches.
    More go to the local church, about 40-50 at the monthly village service than attend any other regular in person activity in the village. Apart from the annual village hall panto and quiz and supper but those are only once a year (and 2 other villages in our benefice don't even have a village hall but still a monthly church service)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    It's your job to write 1,000 entertaining words about something or other. It's no wonder that there has to be a bit of creative liberty taken with the contents.

    Paris is fine. Just as it's always been. No huge change. But I look forward to reading your piece on it, you super-noticer, you.
    Remember how I noticed the necklace. And think on that
    The fact that you noticed what you believed to be a sexual signal from a woman tells us precisely nothing about your ability to notice anything else about the world around you.

    For the record, I quite enjoy your travel reports but - like most things in the press or online - I take it with a large dollop of scepticism.

    Se non e vero, e ben trovato.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412

    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson told me he wished he was black, claims journalist

    Afua Hirsch says former PM made ‘problematic remarks’ about her in 2008 in the presence of his then-wife Marina Wheeler

    Amy Gibbons"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/22/boris-johnson-ex-wife-marina-wheeler-wished-he-was-black/

    Genuine question for the club - why is race fluidity not acceptable?

    We live in an era where people sun tan themselves a darker shade without a thought. Fake tan is all over the place. There are tons of skin lightening products out there.

    I’m quite certain, silly Michael Jackson comments aside, that lots of people have had cosmetic surgery to appear more like a different ethnic group.
    It's a huge industry. A lot of it is to appear white Western-esque. Japanese having their double eyelids operated on to be single - so ending up with Western looking eyes. Skin whitening in Nigeria ia a huge industry. Of course many go the other way, commonly by spray tanning. You could also class the very popular practise of having fat injected into your bum as an attempt to emulate a typically African beauty standard, one popularised by African American music artists.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Asparagus from our garden. 15 food metres, 15 minutes from harvest to plate.
    Mine from the allotment is about 400 yards. Tips were just showing on Saturday, so will check tomorrow in hope. Crowns have been in for five years now, so starting to quite productive.
    I love asparagus season! It’s also usually cheap in the supermarkets too.
    You are entering a 10+ year golden period with your asparagus. First 5 years it was an occasional treat, now we will be eating asparagus every 2nd or 3rd day for the next two months.

    And it is so much better than supermarket asparagus. Whether that's because they force theirs, use less flavoured, more productive varieties, or it's due to the inevitable delay between cutting and eating, I don't know. But nothing beats our own asparagus.
    I think it’s mainly the time from cutting to plate. Cannot be less than a day or two for shop bought, and as you say it’s minutes for your own.
    A few years ago was walking up a hill path in the Pyrenees and was surprised to see two elderly chaps stooping in the vegetation ahead. It turned out they were harvesting wild asparagas. Just spears sprouting out of the dry sandy soil. Had no idea that's how it's done. Picturesque but rather hard work tho I imagine they were simply cutting for themselves.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    legatus said:

    The West Midlands Mayoral election reminds me somewhat of Livingstone losing the London mayoral election to Johnson in 2008. At that time Livingstone was still quite well regarded - in a way that had ceased to be true by 2012 when he lost again much more narrowly - but he was dragged down by the national unpopularity of Labour and Brown's Government - indeed it was the same month that Labour lost the Crewe & Nantwich by election to the Tories.

    True. Though that was a celebrity versus celebrity contest. Possibly a different dynamic to Andy Street v whoever the Labour bloke is.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I’ve never been to church other than weddings, funerals or christenings but, as someone who is sad that Christianity is no longer going to be the dominant faith in England when my kids are grown up, I feel I should start.

    I won’t though, the same way I like the independent shops in our High St and still order stuff cheaper online. When they’re gone I’ll miss them & complaint that people never used them, as my houses value plummets

    https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/why-are-all-the-pubs-closing-ask-people-who-never-go-to-the-pub-200903051623
    Very true.

    I think it was Peter Hitchens who said we are basking in the afterglow of the old Christian England, but by doing nothing to preserve it we are destroying it.
    The problem is you can't really pretend to believe in something. Going to church when you don't believe in any of it would be slightly ridiculous.
    In rural areas some small villages and hamlets no longer even have a pub or shop or school now but they still have a Parish church (even if they only get a service there once a month on rotation). Going to their local church is therefore one of the few ways they meet other members of the village or hamlet reasonably regularly in person
    You obviously don't live in one. Small villages and hamlets all have very lively and active whatsapp and facebook groups and organise all kinds of activities. Moreso if they are smaller. Going to the local church absolutely does bring a small percentage of them together, and activities are often arranged about the church but you are as likely to have gardening groups and arts & crafts and coffee mornings and "Women of...." groups also.

    You should get out more. The church is a teeny tiny part of modern rural life.
    I do now, indeed one with no pub and no post office and no shops now within it (although it still has a church and village hall which does amateur drama and a bit of table tennis). Yes it has a Facebook group but mainly for identifying flooding problems, crime, litter etc in the area.

    There is a horticulture group but based in the next village not this one
    You will know then that the members of the horticulture group span the closest five villages to where you are. Likewise the other groups. There is a real sense of community, albeit online. Plus the coffee mornings and so forth.

    You live in such a village. How many people (as a percentage of the village) go to church. I would say each week but as like as not your village church doesn't have a service every week but shares its vic with the neighbouring churches.
    More go to the local church, about 40-50 at the monthly village service than attend any other regular in person activity in the village. Apart from the annual village hall panto and quiz and supper but those are only once a year (and 2 other villages in our benefice don't even have a village hall but still a monthly church service)
    Monthly village service. Exactly what I said. Teeny tiny relatively compared with all the other village activities.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    .

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    It's your job to write 1,000 entertaining words about something or other. It's no wonder that there has to be a bit of creative liberty taken with the contents.

    Paris is fine. Just as it's always been. No huge change. But I look forward to reading your piece on it, you super-noticer, you.
    Remember how I noticed the necklace. And think on that
    Is the any evidence that you are correct in the necklace claim?
    Yes
    Well what is it then? Saying ‘yes’ is NOT evidence.
    I believe Leon shared it privately with Topping, for reasons explained above.

    And we can surely trust the word of an officer and a gentleman ... ?
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    It's your job to write 1,000 entertaining words about something or other. It's no wonder that there has to be a bit of creative liberty taken with the contents.

    Paris is fine. Just as it's always been. No huge change. But I look forward to reading your piece on it, you super-noticer, you.
    Remember how I noticed the necklace. And think on that
    Is the any evidence that you are correct in the necklace claim?
    Yes
    Well what is it then? Saying ‘yes’ is NOT evidence.
    I am not at liberty to say and @TSE has a hard enough job - unpaid - without me bringing lawyers in so I will stay quiet. I have privately given evidence to others - and been given it
    I stumbled across something about a necklace and a lady pol recently. Supposedly she is aware of the rumours but continues wearing it anyway. I suspect for the lolz tbh.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    This is excellent.

    Airport security line cutters are target of first-in-the-nation California bill
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/22/california-bill-to-ban-clear-00153447
    SACRAMENTO, California — In this deep blue state where Republicans rarely back Democratic colleagues in the Capitol, one issue is overcoming the partisan divide: line skipping at airports.

    A pair of Orange County state senators from opposing parties — who frequently fly between their districts and Sacramento — are both boosting a first-in-the-nation proposal critics say would ban the expedited security screening company CLEAR from state airports.

    “The least you can expect when you have to go through the security line at the airport is that you don’t suffer the indignity of somebody pushing you out of the way to let the rich person pass you,” Josh Newman, the Democratic lawmaker who authored the bill, told POLITICO.
    His Republican colleague, Janet Nguyen, expressed a similar reason for backing the bill...
  • legatuslegatus Posts: 126

    legatus said:

    The West Midlands Mayoral election reminds me somewhat of Livingstone losing the London mayoral election to Johnson in 2008. At that time Livingstone was still quite well regarded - in a way that had ceased to be true by 2012 when he lost again much more narrowly - but he was dragged down by the national unpopularity of Labour and Brown's Government - indeed it was the same month that Labour lost the Crewe & Nantwich by election to the Tories.

    True. Though that was a celebrity versus celebrity contest. Possibly a different dynamic to Andy Street v whoever the Labour bloke is.

    legatus said:

    The West Midlands Mayoral election reminds me somewhat of Livingstone losing the London mayoral election to Johnson in 2008. At that time Livingstone was still quite well regarded - in a way that had ceased to be true by 2012 when he lost again much more narrowly - but he was dragged down by the national unpopularity of Labour and Brown's Government - indeed it was the same month that Labour lost the Crewe & Nantwich by election to the Tories.

    True. Though that was a celebrity versus celebrity contest. Possibly a different dynamic to Andy Street v whoever the Labour bloke is.
    A year earlier I think Livingstone would have defeated Johnson.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    edited April 22
    .
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    It's your job to write 1,000 entertaining words about something or other. It's no wonder that there has to be a bit of creative liberty taken with the contents.

    Paris is fine. Just as it's always been. No huge change. But I look forward to reading your piece on it, you super-noticer, you.
    Remember how I noticed the necklace. And think on that
    Is the any evidence that you are correct in the necklace claim?
    Yes
    Well what is it then? Saying ‘yes’ is NOT evidence.
    I believe Leon shared it privately with Topping, for reasons explained above.

    And we can surely trust the word of an officer and a gentleman ... ?
    Judging by last week's book launch and interviews she has a masochistic love of public humiliation.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    TOPPING said:

    Anyone else getting odd issues with PB tonight?

    There seems to have been an outbreak of decency, friendliness and good-humour.

    I'm using Safari on a Mac - not sure if other platform users are seeing the same thing.

    No you fuck off.
    [normal service resumed]
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    It's your job to write 1,000 entertaining words about something or other. It's no wonder that there has to be a bit of creative liberty taken with the contents.

    Paris is fine. Just as it's always been. No huge change. But I look forward to reading your piece on it, you super-noticer, you.
    Remember how I noticed the necklace. And think on that
    Is the any evidence that you are correct in the necklace claim?
    Yes
    Well what is it then? Saying ‘yes’ is NOT evidence.
    I am not at liberty to say and @TSE has a hard enough job - unpaid - without me bringing lawyers in so I will stay quiet. I have privately given evidence to others - and been given it
    I stumbled across something about a necklace and a lady pol recently. Supposedly she is aware of the rumours but continues wearing it anyway. I suspect for the lolz tbh.
    I think it's rubbish. I think the necklace in question is just a standard Tiffany's type piece. Pricey jewellery that she likes wearing.

    It must be very hard being Liz Truss. Even the 'reviews' of her book on Amazon. Every single 'verified purchase' review praises the book. Then there's a veritable flood of randoms who've just used their 'review' to spray vitriol about Liz Truss. I thought you had to have purchased a thing to review it but apparently not.

    Truss is certainly no saint, but with a family and a very busy political career, I'm not sure how she'd have time to spend hours of her life in a dungeon. To me, being accused of being a strange gimp figure because of a cherished necklace that your husband (or perhaps even your daughters) has bought you is in line with the general trend. Obviously she knows about it and it's to her credit that she's carried on wearing it.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,243
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    Can you honestly say you don't go with an agenda? Bad news sells after all.
    I think it was Jay Rayner, or Adrian Gill, or one of them perhaps Giles Coren, who said that their bad restaurant reviews (restaurant bad, not the review...) were hugely more popular than their good ones. They said it was tempting to make them all bad.
    It's always more interesting to read one-star reviews. My favourite was a bloke who drove his girlfriend from London to Durness one day and requested two glasses of champagne on arrival. 'Sorry, sir, we can only sell it by the bottle,' he was told. This provoked a one-star review and a scathing comment about the meanness of the Scots. Imagine the mentality of someone who drives 700 miles, presumably in an ostentatious motor, but is too mean to shell out for a bottle of fizz when he gets there.

    I've done that drive myself, by the way. Psychosis sets in around Perth.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,076
    I see the Lords has sent back an amended bill back to the Commons again. Majority of 29.

    I wonder how long this will go on for. I don't think there is anything stopping them doing it forever for this parliamentary session?
  • legatuslegatus Posts: 126
    Ratters said:

    I see the Lords has sent back an amended bill back to the Commons again. Majority of 29.

    I wonder how long this will go on for. I don't think there is anything stopping them doing it forever for this parliamentary session?

    Double insistence can come into play

    'This process continues until agreement has been reached on each amendment or until ‘double insistence’ takes place, in which case the entire bill is lost.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I’ve never been to church other than weddings, funerals or christenings but, as someone who is sad that Christianity is no longer going to be the dominant faith in England when my kids are grown up, I feel I should start.

    I won’t though, the same way I like the independent shops in our High St and still order stuff cheaper online. When they’re gone I’ll miss them & complaint that people never used them, as my houses value plummets

    https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/why-are-all-the-pubs-closing-ask-people-who-never-go-to-the-pub-200903051623
    Very true.

    I think it was Peter Hitchens who said we are basking in the afterglow of the old Christian England, but by doing nothing to preserve it we are destroying it.
    The problem is you can't really pretend to believe in something. Going to church when you don't believe in any of it would be slightly ridiculous.
    In rural areas some small villages and hamlets no longer even have a pub or shop or school now but they still have a Parish church (even if they only get a service there once a month on rotation). Going to their local church is therefore one of the few ways they meet other members of the village or hamlet reasonably regularly in person
    You obviously don't live in one. Small villages and hamlets all have very lively and active whatsapp and facebook groups and organise all kinds of activities. Moreso if they are smaller. Going to the local church absolutely does bring a small percentage of them together, and activities are often arranged about the church but you are as likely to have gardening groups and arts & crafts and coffee mornings and "Women of...." groups also.

    You should get out more. The church is a teeny tiny part of modern rural life.
    I do now, indeed one with no pub and no post office and no shops now within it (although it still has a church and village hall which does amateur drama and a bit of table tennis). Yes it has a Facebook group but mainly for identifying flooding problems, crime, litter etc in the area.

    There is a horticulture group but based in the next village not this one
    You will know then that the members of the horticulture group span the closest five villages to where you are. Likewise the other groups. There is a real sense of community, albeit online. Plus the coffee mornings and so forth.

    You live in such a village. How many people (as a percentage of the village) go to church. I would say each week but as like as not your village church doesn't have a service every week but shares its vic with the neighbouring churches.
    More go to the local church, about 40-50 at the monthly village service than attend any other regular in person activity in the village. Apart from the annual village hall panto and quiz and supper but those are only once a year (and 2 other villages in our benefice don't even have a village hall but still a monthly church service)
    Monthly village service. Exactly what I said. Teeny tiny relatively compared with all the other village activities.
    No, more than any other monthly or weekly in person activity in the village
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    nico679 said:

    The wheels are coming off Gideon Falters attempt to turn himself into a martyr .

    Gideon Falter has got half the government and the Met's top brass falling over themselves to apologise. That's half the job done. The other half is restrictions on future pro-Palestine demos. Watch this space.
  • WaterfallWaterfall Posts: 96
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    It's your job to write 1,000 entertaining words about something or other. It's no wonder that there has to be a bit of creative liberty taken with the contents.

    Paris is fine. Just as it's always been. No huge change. But I look forward to reading your piece on it, you super-noticer, you.
    Remember how I noticed the necklace. And think on that
    The fact that you noticed what you believed to be a sexual signal from a woman tells us precisely nothing about your ability to notice anything else about the world around you.

    For the record, I quite enjoy your travel reports but - like most things in the press or online - I take it with a large dollop of scepticism.

    Se non e vero, e ben trovato.
    If you want to annoy him ask him how his recent tech stock purchases are doing.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214
    Ratters said:

    I see the Lords has sent back an amended bill back to the Commons again. Majority of 29.

    I wonder how long this will go on for. I don't think there is anything stopping them doing it forever for this parliamentary session?

    Commons has moved enough on the Afghan veterans issue to get consent from the Lords. So it boils down to one issue.

    The Lords want a clause requiring that the SoS must make a statement to Parliament, stating that Rwanda is safe, having consulted Monitoring Committee.

    (They don't have to agree with the Monitoring Committee, they just have to say it out loud.)

    Concede that, and Rishi gets his bill.

    Lucky Rishi.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    According to the Pakistani authorities…

    Report:— More Pakistanis emigrated to UK in last 14 months (Jan 2023 to Feb 2024), than they did in previous 51 years (1971-2022).
    https://x.com/southasiaindex/status/1780617088211587373?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Can this be true?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214

    According to the Pakistani authorities…

    Report:— More Pakistanis emigrated to UK in last 14 months (Jan 2023 to Feb 2024), than they did in previous 51 years (1971-2022).
    https://x.com/southasiaindex/status/1780617088211587373?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Can this be true?

    Don't know about the numbers, but it's what Vote Leave promised -

    (From 2016)

    Vote Leave is hoping to secure the backing of British Asians by telling them that if Britain quits the EU, it will mean more immigration from elsewhere in the world.

    The official Out campaign is drawing up leaflets aimed at Punjabi, Hindi and Urdu speakers arguing that a British exit from the EU would help to stem the flow of Eastern Europeans into the UK — allowing more incomers from Commonwealth countries to take their place.


    https://www.ft.com/content/94adcefa-1dd5-11e6-a7bc-ee846770ec15

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    It's your job to write 1,000 entertaining words about something or other. It's no wonder that there has to be a bit of creative liberty taken with the contents.

    Paris is fine. Just as it's always been. No huge change. But I look forward to reading your piece on it, you super-noticer, you.
    Remember how I noticed the necklace. And think on that
    Is the any evidence that you are correct in the necklace claim?
    Yes
    Well what is it then? Saying ‘yes’ is NOT evidence.
    I am not at liberty to say and @TSE has a hard enough job - unpaid - without me bringing lawyers in so I will stay quiet. I have privately given evidence to others - and been given it
    I stumbled across something about a necklace and a lady pol recently. Supposedly she is aware of the rumours but continues wearing it anyway. I suspect for the lolz tbh.
    I think it's rubbish. I think the necklace in question is just a standard Tiffany's type piece. Pricey jewellery that she likes wearing.

    It must be very hard being Liz Truss. Even the 'reviews' of her book on Amazon. Every single 'verified purchase' review praises the book. Then there's a veritable flood of randoms who've just used their 'review' to spray vitriol about Liz Truss. I thought you had to have purchased a thing to review it but apparently not.

    Truss is certainly no saint, but with a family and a very busy political career, I'm not sure how she'd have time to spend hours of her life in a dungeon. To me, being accused of being a strange gimp figure because of a cherished necklace that your husband (or perhaps even your daughters) has bought you is in line with the general trend. Obviously she knows about it and it's to her credit that she's carried on wearing it.
    Ask @TOPPING

    He didn’t believe me. He was so persistent in his mocking disbelief I privately messaged him

    You will note he is now either quiet or he is basically saying I am right

    I mean, it’s up to you. Maybe I gave him £2,290 to go quiet. Or he saw what he saw and said Fair enough
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    According to the Pakistani authorities…

    Report:— More Pakistanis emigrated to UK in last 14 months (Jan 2023 to Feb 2024), than they did in previous 51 years (1971-2022).
    https://x.com/southasiaindex/status/1780617088211587373?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Can this be true?

    Don't know about the numbers, but it's what Vote Leave promised -

    (From 2016)

    Vote Leave is hoping to secure the backing of British Asians by telling them that if Britain quits the EU, it will mean more immigration from elsewhere in the world.

    The official Out campaign is drawing up leaflets aimed at Punjabi, Hindi and Urdu speakers arguing that a British exit from the EU would help to stem the flow of Eastern Europeans into the UK — allowing more incomers from Commonwealth countries to take their place.


    https://www.ft.com/content/94adcefa-1dd5-11e6-a7bc-ee846770ec15

    And amazingly that’s one promise they actually delivered on !
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,767

    According to the Pakistani authorities…

    Report:— More Pakistanis emigrated to UK in last 14 months (Jan 2023 to Feb 2024), than they did in previous 51 years (1971-2022).
    https://x.com/southasiaindex/status/1780617088211587373?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Can this be true?

    Don't know about the numbers, but it's what Vote Leave promised -

    (From 2016)

    Vote Leave is hoping to secure the backing of British Asians by telling them that if Britain quits the EU, it will mean more immigration from elsewhere in the world.

    The official Out campaign is drawing up leaflets aimed at Punjabi, Hindi and Urdu speakers arguing that a British exit from the EU would help to stem the flow of Eastern Europeans into the UK — allowing more incomers from Commonwealth countries to take their place.


    https://www.ft.com/content/94adcefa-1dd5-11e6-a7bc-ee846770ec15

    At least the Leave campaign wasn't lying to everyone.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    edited April 22

    According to the Pakistani authorities…

    Report:— More Pakistanis emigrated to UK in last 14 months (Jan 2023 to Feb 2024), than they did in previous 51 years (1971-2022).
    https://x.com/southasiaindex/status/1780617088211587373?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Can this be true?

    The underlying data source is here https://profit.pakistantoday.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/country.pdf

    That shows 17,000 Pakistanis emigrated to the UK in 2023, and a further 3,500 in the first two months of 2024.

    I'm calling "Bullshit" on this one.

    Edit to add:

    OK. The number that I think is wrong here is the one for 1971 to 2011 (30 years), where it claims only 11,000 Pakistanis emigrated to the UK in that period. That seems extremely low, only 300 a year, or not even one a day. Having gone to a majority Muslim school where the vast majority of the parents were of Bangladeshi or Pakistani heritage, it seems unlikely.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    Waterfall said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    It's your job to write 1,000 entertaining words about something or other. It's no wonder that there has to be a bit of creative liberty taken with the contents.

    Paris is fine. Just as it's always been. No huge change. But I look forward to reading your piece on it, you super-noticer, you.
    Remember how I noticed the necklace. And think on that
    The fact that you noticed what you believed to be a sexual signal from a woman tells us precisely nothing about your ability to notice anything else about the world around you.

    For the record, I quite enjoy your travel reports but - like most things in the press or online - I take it with a large dollop of scepticism.

    Se non e vero, e ben trovato.
    If you want to annoy him ask him how his recent tech stock purchases are doing.
    I don't want to annoy him.

    Just gently tease him.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,678

    According to the Pakistani authorities…

    Report:— More Pakistanis emigrated to UK in last 14 months (Jan 2023 to Feb 2024), than they did in previous 51 years (1971-2022).
    https://x.com/southasiaindex/status/1780617088211587373?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Can this be true?

    Don't know about the numbers, but it's what Vote Leave promised -

    (From 2016)

    Vote Leave is hoping to secure the backing of British Asians by telling them that if Britain quits the EU, it will mean more immigration from elsewhere in the world.

    The official Out campaign is drawing up leaflets aimed at Punjabi, Hindi and Urdu speakers arguing that a British exit from the EU would help to stem the flow of Eastern Europeans into the UK — allowing more incomers from Commonwealth countries to take their place.


    https://www.ft.com/content/94adcefa-1dd5-11e6-a7bc-ee846770ec15

    Where was Douglas Murray when we needed him?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,767

    According to the Pakistani authorities…

    Report:— More Pakistanis emigrated to UK in last 14 months (Jan 2023 to Feb 2024), than they did in previous 51 years (1971-2022).
    https://x.com/southasiaindex/status/1780617088211587373?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Can this be true?

    The numbers look like garbage.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    It's your job to write 1,000 entertaining words about something or other. It's no wonder that there has to be a bit of creative liberty taken with the contents.

    Paris is fine. Just as it's always been. No huge change. But I look forward to reading your piece on it, you super-noticer, you.
    Remember how I noticed the necklace. And think on that
    Is the any evidence that you are correct in the necklace claim?
    Yes
    Well what is it then? Saying ‘yes’ is NOT evidence.
    I am not at liberty to say and @TSE has a hard enough job - unpaid - without me bringing lawyers in so I will stay quiet. I have privately given evidence to others - and been given it
    I stumbled across something about a necklace and a lady pol recently. Supposedly she is aware of the rumours but continues wearing it anyway. I suspect for the lolz tbh.
    I think it's rubbish. I think the necklace in question is just a standard Tiffany's type piece. Pricey jewellery that she likes wearing.

    It must be very hard being Liz Truss. Even the 'reviews' of her book on Amazon. Every single 'verified purchase' review praises the book. Then there's a veritable flood of randoms who've just used their 'review' to spray vitriol about Liz Truss. I thought you had to have purchased a thing to review it but apparently not.

    Truss is certainly no saint, but with a family and a very busy political career, I'm not sure how she'd have time to spend hours of her life in a dungeon. To me, being accused of being a strange gimp figure because of a cherished necklace that your husband (or perhaps even your daughters) has bought you is in line with the general trend. Obviously she knows about it and it's to her credit that she's carried on wearing it.
    Ask @TOPPING

    He didn’t believe me. He was so persistent in his mocking disbelief I privately messaged him

    You will note he is now either quiet or he is basically saying I am right

    I mean, it’s up to you. Maybe I gave him £2,290 to go quiet. Or he saw what he saw and said Fair enough
    Is this £2290 a general offer for positive comments? Asking for me rather than a friend to be honest.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    This... looks remarkably sci:fi:

    https://twitter.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1782412793742004594

    "A short film from 1902 of a German suspended railway called the Wuppertal Schwebebahn, shot in 68 mm, colorized and upscaled in 4K.

    It shows an unusual drone-like view of a German city at the beginning of the 20th century."

    No cars to be seen anywhere (obvs...), and few horses, either.

    Edit: compared to a modern view:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPj0CDfpEm0

    It's still going, suitably (but not too) modernised. On my list if I last that long.








    Vide Bennie Railplane. Was up your airt. Obvs to keep the Milguy denizens from mixing with the lowly keelies.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvSmwMqtylA
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700

    Ratters said:

    I see the Lords has sent back an amended bill back to the Commons again. Majority of 29.

    I wonder how long this will go on for. I don't think there is anything stopping them doing it forever for this parliamentary session?

    Commons has moved enough on the Afghan veterans issue to get consent from the Lords. So it boils down to one issue.

    The Lords want a clause requiring that the SoS must make a statement to Parliament, stating that Rwanda is safe, having consulted Monitoring Committee.

    (They don't have to agree with the Monitoring Committee, they just have to say it out loud.)

    Concede that, and Rishi gets his bill.

    Lucky Rishi.
    Unless Charles refuses to sign this crap off.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    Can you honestly say you don't go with an agenda? Bad news sells after all.
    I think it was Jay Rayner, or Adrian Gill, or one of them perhaps Giles Coren, who said that their bad restaurant reviews (restaurant bad, not the review...) were hugely more popular than their good ones. They said it was tempting to make them all bad.
    It's always more interesting to read one-star reviews. My favourite was a bloke who drove his girlfriend from London to Durness one day and requested two glasses of champagne on arrival. 'Sorry, sir, we can only sell it by the bottle,' he was told. This provoked a one-star review and a scathing comment about the meanness of the Scots. Imagine the mentality of someone who drives 700 miles, presumably in an ostentatious motor, but is too mean to shell out for a bottle of fizz when he gets there.

    I've done that drive myself, by the way. Psychosis sets in around Perth.
    3 and 4 star ratings are usually the most interesting. I always look at the 3 star ones if I’m considering a restaurant. They will be quite critical but fair, not neglecting to mention the good points.

    1 and 2 and you know it’s going to be a rant typically about the attitude of the owner. 5 and it’s often too bland and lacking rigour.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    According to the Pakistani authorities…

    Report:— More Pakistanis emigrated to UK in last 14 months (Jan 2023 to Feb 2024), than they did in previous 51 years (1971-2022).
    https://x.com/southasiaindex/status/1780617088211587373?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Can this be true?

    The numbers look like garbage.
    I’m cooking dinner.
    No time to actually verify data, merely to share outrage-provoking tweets.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    Ratters said:

    I see the Lords has sent back an amended bill back to the Commons again. Majority of 29.

    I wonder how long this will go on for. I don't think there is anything stopping them doing it forever for this parliamentary session?

    Commons has moved enough on the Afghan veterans issue to get consent from the Lords. So it boils down to one issue.

    The Lords want a clause requiring that the SoS must make a statement to Parliament, stating that Rwanda is safe, having consulted Monitoring Committee.

    (They don't have to agree with the Monitoring Committee, they just have to say it out loud.)

    Concede that, and Rishi gets his bill.

    Lucky Rishi.
    Unless Charles refuses to sign this crap off.
    Won't happen.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    Ratters said:

    I see the Lords has sent back an amended bill back to the Commons again. Majority of 29.

    I wonder how long this will go on for. I don't think there is anything stopping them doing it forever for this parliamentary session?

    Commons has moved enough on the Afghan veterans issue to get consent from the Lords. So it boils down to one issue.

    The Lords want a clause requiring that the SoS must make a statement to Parliament, stating that Rwanda is safe, having consulted Monitoring Committee.

    (They don't have to agree with the Monitoring Committee, they just have to say it out loud.)

    Concede that, and Rishi gets his bill.

    Lucky Rishi.
    Unless Charles refuses to sign this crap off.
    He’ll sign it, and thus the squib will belatedly be released into the wild, to dampen the corridors of the home office.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    edited April 22
    rcs1000 said:

    According to the Pakistani authorities…

    Report:— More Pakistanis emigrated to UK in last 14 months (Jan 2023 to Feb 2024), than they did in previous 51 years (1971-2022).
    https://x.com/southasiaindex/status/1780617088211587373?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Can this be true?

    The underlying data source is here https://profit.pakistantoday.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/country.pdf

    That shows 17,000 Pakistanis emigrated to the UK in 2023, and a further 3,500 in the first two months of 2024.

    I'm calling "Bullshit" on this one.

    Edit to add:

    OK. The number that I think is wrong here is the one for 1971 to 2011 (30 years), where it claims only 11,000 Pakistanis emigrated to the UK in that period. That seems extremely low, only 300 a year, or not even one a day. Having gone to a majority Muslim school where the vast majority of the parents were of Bangladeshi or Pakistani heritage, it seems unlikely.
    Remember a lot of the early immigrants would be those expelled from East Africa rather than coming directly from Pakistan.

    ETA and a lot of the later parents "of xxx heritage" will have been born here.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Foxy said:

    Ratters said:

    I see the Lords has sent back an amended bill back to the Commons again. Majority of 29.

    I wonder how long this will go on for. I don't think there is anything stopping them doing it forever for this parliamentary session?

    Commons has moved enough on the Afghan veterans issue to get consent from the Lords. So it boils down to one issue.

    The Lords want a clause requiring that the SoS must make a statement to Parliament, stating that Rwanda is safe, having consulted Monitoring Committee.

    (They don't have to agree with the Monitoring Committee, they just have to say it out loud.)

    Concede that, and Rishi gets his bill.

    Lucky Rishi.
    Unless Charles refuses to sign this crap off.
    Won't happen.
    I know. I was being mildly flippant.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    rcs1000 said:

    According to the Pakistani authorities…

    Report:— More Pakistanis emigrated to UK in last 14 months (Jan 2023 to Feb 2024), than they did in previous 51 years (1971-2022).
    https://x.com/southasiaindex/status/1780617088211587373?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Can this be true?

    The underlying data source is here https://profit.pakistantoday.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/country.pdf

    That shows 17,000 Pakistanis emigrated to the UK in 2023, and a further 3,500 in the first two months of 2024.

    I'm calling "Bullshit" on this one.

    Edit to add:

    OK. The number that I think is wrong here is the one for 1971 to 2011 (30 years), where it claims only 11,000 Pakistanis emigrated to the UK in that period. That seems extremely low, only 300 a year, or not even one a day. Having gone to a majority Muslim school where the vast majority of the parents were of Bangladeshi or Pakistani heritage, it seems unlikely.
    Isn't it just a poorly phrased post?

    That the number of Pakistani immigrants is higher in 2023 than in any individual year between 1971 and 2011. That may well be so.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    According to the Pakistani authorities…

    Report:— More Pakistanis emigrated to UK in last 14 months (Jan 2023 to Feb 2024), than they did in previous 51 years (1971-2022).
    https://x.com/southasiaindex/status/1780617088211587373?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Can this be true?

    The underlying data source is here https://profit.pakistantoday.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/country.pdf

    That shows 17,000 Pakistanis emigrated to the UK in 2023, and a further 3,500 in the first two months of 2024.

    I'm calling "Bullshit" on this one.

    Edit to add:

    OK. The number that I think is wrong here is the one for 1971 to 2011 (30 years), where it claims only 11,000 Pakistanis emigrated to the UK in that period. That seems extremely low, only 300 a year, or not even one a day. Having gone to a majority Muslim school where the vast majority of the parents were of Bangladeshi or Pakistani heritage, it seems unlikely.
    Isn't it just a poorly phrased post?

    That the number of Pakistani immigrants is higher in 2023 than in any individual year between 1971 and 2011. That may well be so.
    Maybe, but the 14 months is a curve ball if it is comparing years.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Might have thought this next headline was superfluous . . . but NOT in the Age of Donald Trump . . .

    AP - Republican Wisconsin Senate candidate says he doesn’t oppose elderly people voting

    The Republican candidate in Wisconsin’s closely watched U.S. Senate race emphasized this week that he doesn’t oppose elderly people voting after initially saying that “almost nobody in a nursing home” is at a point in life where they are capable of voting.

    Eric Hovde faces Democratic Sen. Tammy Baldwin in the race that is essential for Democrats to win in order to maintain their majority in the Senate. A Marquette University Law School poll this week showed the race is about even among likely voters.

    Baldwin and Democrats have been attacking Hovde over comments he first made April 5 on a Fox News radio show about nursing home voting. Who can vote in a nursing home, and how they cast their ballots, has been a hot issue in Wisconsin since 2020 when supporters of former President Donald Trump alleged that people were voting illegally.

    No charges were brought, and President Joe Biden’s victory over Trump has withstood a nonpartisan audit, numerous lawsuits, a partial recount and a review by a conservative law firm.

    But Hovde has been raising the issue of nursing home voting when discussing what he said were problems with the 2020 election.

    “We had nursing homes where the sheriff of Racine investigated, where you had 100 percent voting in nursing homes,” Hovde said.

    That claim of 100% voting in nursing homes, first made by former Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Michael Gableman in a discredited report, has never been verified. Voting data has shown that participation in nursing homes across the state was much lower than 100%.

    “If you’re in a nursing home, you only have a five, six-month life expectancy,” Hovde said last week on the “Guy Benson Show.” “Almost nobody in a nursing home is in a point to vote.” . . .

    SSI - Amazing the self-inflicted harm that MAGA-maniacs from sea to shining sea, have been dishing out to themselves, in heaving helpings, by following their hero Donald Trump down THIS rabid rabbit hole.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    TimS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    Can you honestly say you don't go with an agenda? Bad news sells after all.
    I think it was Jay Rayner, or Adrian Gill, or one of them perhaps Giles Coren, who said that their bad restaurant reviews (restaurant bad, not the review...) were hugely more popular than their good ones. They said it was tempting to make them all bad.
    It's always more interesting to read one-star reviews. My favourite was a bloke who drove his girlfriend from London to Durness one day and requested two glasses of champagne on arrival. 'Sorry, sir, we can only sell it by the bottle,' he was told. This provoked a one-star review and a scathing comment about the meanness of the Scots. Imagine the mentality of someone who drives 700 miles, presumably in an ostentatious motor, but is too mean to shell out for a bottle of fizz when he gets there.

    I've done that drive myself, by the way. Psychosis sets in around Perth.
    3 and 4 star ratings are usually the most interesting. I always look at the 3 star ones if I’m considering a restaurant. They will be quite critical but fair, not neglecting to mention the good points.

    1 and 2 and you know it’s going to be a rant typically about the attitude of the owner. 5 and it’s often too bland and lacking rigour.
    Plus lots of 5-star reviews are as phony as Donald Trump's financial filings.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    It's your job to write 1,000 entertaining words about something or other. It's no wonder that there has to be a bit of creative liberty taken with the contents.

    Paris is fine. Just as it's always been. No huge change. But I look forward to reading your piece on it, you super-noticer, you.
    Remember how I noticed the necklace. And think on that
    Is the any evidence that you are correct in the necklace claim?
    Yes
    Well what is it then? Saying ‘yes’ is NOT evidence.
    I am not at liberty to say and @TSE has a hard enough job - unpaid - without me bringing lawyers in so I will stay quiet. I have privately given evidence to others - and been given it
    I stumbled across something about a necklace and a lady pol recently. Supposedly she is aware of the rumours but continues wearing it anyway. I suspect for the lolz tbh.
    I think it's rubbish. I think the necklace in question is just a standard Tiffany's type piece. Pricey jewellery that she likes wearing.

    It must be very hard being Liz Truss. Even the 'reviews' of her book on Amazon. Every single 'verified purchase' review praises the book. Then there's a veritable flood of randoms who've just used their 'review' to spray vitriol about Liz Truss. I thought you had to have purchased a thing to review it but apparently not.

    Truss is certainly no saint, but with a family and a very busy political career, I'm not sure how she'd have time to spend hours of her life in a dungeon. To me, being accused of being a strange gimp figure because of a cherished necklace that your husband (or perhaps even your daughters) has bought you is in line with the general trend. Obviously she knows about it and it's to her credit that she's carried on wearing it.
    Er, do have another look at the Amazon setup. You seem to have fallen foul of the admittedly confusing setup and default filters, but in reality some 15% of the *verified* purchases are critical as well as plenty of others who CBA to mess around with that but some of who do seem to have read the book. Bear in mind that 'verified' means bought through Amazon. Not other routes.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    @Carnyx, @JosiasJessop, @Theuniondivvie

    I note your interest in suspended railways. There are several throughout the world, although recent events to create new ones at scale have faltered. However they are impressive, if only as curios, and here are ones that I like. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_railway
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFEGE#SAFEGE_type_monorail
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    TimS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    Can you honestly say you don't go with an agenda? Bad news sells after all.
    I think it was Jay Rayner, or Adrian Gill, or one of them perhaps Giles Coren, who said that their bad restaurant reviews (restaurant bad, not the review...) were hugely more popular than their good ones. They said it was tempting to make them all bad.
    It's always more interesting to read one-star reviews. My favourite was a bloke who drove his girlfriend from London to Durness one day and requested two glasses of champagne on arrival. 'Sorry, sir, we can only sell it by the bottle,' he was told. This provoked a one-star review and a scathing comment about the meanness of the Scots. Imagine the mentality of someone who drives 700 miles, presumably in an ostentatious motor, but is too mean to shell out for a bottle of fizz when he gets there.

    I've done that drive myself, by the way. Psychosis sets in around Perth.
    3 and 4 star ratings are usually the most interesting. I always look at the 3 star ones if I’m considering a restaurant. They will be quite critical but fair, not neglecting to mention the good points.

    1 and 2 and you know it’s going to be a rant typically about the attitude of the owner. 5 and it’s often too bland and lacking rigour.
    Plus lots of 5-star reviews are as phony as Donald Trump's financial filings.
    Indeed. It's a major concern amongst Which here (dunno the US equivalent but aka the Consumers' Association).

    https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/online-shopping/article/online-shopping/how-to-spot-a-fake-review-aiDaS3e1ivfr
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    rcs1000 said:

    According to the Pakistani authorities…

    Report:— More Pakistanis emigrated to UK in last 14 months (Jan 2023 to Feb 2024), than they did in previous 51 years (1971-2022).
    https://x.com/southasiaindex/status/1780617088211587373?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Can this be true?

    The underlying data source is here https://profit.pakistantoday.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/country.pdf

    That shows 17,000 Pakistanis emigrated to the UK in 2023, and a further 3,500 in the first two months of 2024.

    I'm calling "Bullshit" on this one.

    Edit to add:

    OK. The number that I think is wrong here is the one for 1971 to 2011 (30 years), where it claims only 11,000 Pakistanis emigrated to the UK in that period. That seems extremely low, only 300 a year, or not even one a day. Having gone to a majority Muslim school where the vast majority of the parents were of Bangladeshi or Pakistani heritage, it seems unlikely.
    11,000 in those 30 years is total nonsense. It would have been at least 20 times that.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    viewcode said:

    @Carnyx, @JosiasJessop, @Theuniondivvie

    I note your interest in suspended railways. There are several throughout the world, although recent events to create new ones at scale have faltered. However they are impressive, if only as curios, and here are ones that I like.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_railway
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFEGE#SAFEGE_type_monorail
    Not to forget the "Railplane" which was going to connect Glasgow to Edinburgh :

    https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/story-of-glasgows-forgotten-monorail--11404494

    "The railplane was electrically powered and propeller driven."

    Elon Musk, eat your heart out.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited April 22

    Ratters said:

    I see the Lords has sent back an amended bill back to the Commons again. Majority of 29.

    I wonder how long this will go on for. I don't think there is anything stopping them doing it forever for this parliamentary session?

    Commons has moved enough on the Afghan veterans issue to get consent from the Lords. So it boils down to one issue.

    The Lords want a clause requiring that the SoS must make a statement to Parliament, stating that Rwanda is safe, having consulted Monitoring Committee.

    (They don't have to agree with the Monitoring Committee, they just have to say it out loud.)

    Concede that, and Rishi gets his bill.

    Lucky Rishi.
    Unless Charles refuses to sign this crap off.
    He'd be an ex-King very swiftly. But people did wonder if he might not be able to restrain himself as King - so far he's been very restrained.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    ..
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    ‘They’ve turned Aaronovitch against us!’


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson told me he wished he was black, claims journalist

    Afua Hirsch says former PM made ‘problematic remarks’ about her in 2008 in the presence of his then-wife Marina Wheeler

    Amy Gibbons"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/22/boris-johnson-ex-wife-marina-wheeler-wished-he-was-black/

    Genuine question for the club - why is race fluidity not acceptable?

    We live in an era where people sun tan themselves a darker shade without a thought. Fake tan is all over the place. There are tons of skin lightening products out there.

    I’m quite certain, silly Michael Jackson comments aside, that lots of people have had cosmetic surgery to appear more like a different ethnic group.
    It should be acceptable. People can choose to be whatever they like, after all.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    rcs1000 said:

    According to the Pakistani authorities…

    Report:— More Pakistanis emigrated to UK in last 14 months (Jan 2023 to Feb 2024), than they did in previous 51 years (1971-2022).
    https://x.com/southasiaindex/status/1780617088211587373?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Can this be true?

    The underlying data source is here https://profit.pakistantoday.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/country.pdf

    That shows 17,000 Pakistanis emigrated to the UK in 2023, and a further 3,500 in the first two months of 2024.

    I'm calling "Bullshit" on this one.

    Edit to add:

    OK. The number that I think is wrong here is the one for 1971 to 2011 (30 years), where it claims only 11,000 Pakistanis emigrated to the UK in that period. That seems extremely low, only 300 a year, or not even one a day. Having gone to a majority Muslim school where the vast majority of the parents were of Bangladeshi or Pakistani heritage, it seems unlikely.
    Remember a lot of the early immigrants would be those expelled from East Africa rather than coming directly from Pakistan.

    ETA and a lot of the later parents "of xxx heritage" will have been born here.
    Sure: but I certainly knew kids who were literally "just off the plane", and who arrived at the school, speaking little to no English.

    I also know quite a few Pakistanis who came via student visas and stayed, who will need to be included in the numbers.

    I just find it hard to believe that I would personally know a sizeable proportion of all the people who emigrated from Pakistan to the UK between 1971 and 2011.

    (Indeed: the UK government says that in 2016, there were 540,000 people in the UK who were born in Pakistan. Which makes the number for the previous forty years total nonsense.)

    Fake news, etc. Ignore.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068

    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson told me he wished he was black, claims journalist

    Afua Hirsch says former PM made ‘problematic remarks’ about her in 2008 in the presence of his then-wife Marina Wheeler

    Amy Gibbons"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/22/boris-johnson-ex-wife-marina-wheeler-wished-he-was-black/

    Genuine question for the club - why is race fluidity not acceptable?

    We live in an era where people sun tan themselves a darker shade without a thought. Fake tan is all over the place. There are tons of skin lightening products out there.

    I’m quite certain, silly Michael Jackson comments aside, that lots of people have had cosmetic surgery to appear more like a different ethnic group.
    • i) It used to be said that England was a country where it was still possible for a thing to be neither compulsory nor forbidden. Sadly I don't think that's true anymore
    • ii) if it is unacceptable, then how is the unacceptability to be enforced? Specific name types reserved to specific races? Dress codes enforced by law? I realise this is enforced these days by a taboo against cultural appropriation, but that is to my mind regrettable. We are becoming very censorious and authoritarian.
  • ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,529
    Being very careful to remind everyone that we are all innocent until proven guilty, and naming no names...

    Wings Over Scotland's twitter feed is interesting this evening. He suggests there may be disagreement between Police Scotland and the Crown Office on what to do next: "Am being told tonight that Police Scotland and the Crown Office are at war over whether to charge [a person] over a crime. Readers can guess who's on which side."

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    Might have thought this next headline was superfluous . . . but NOT in the Age of Donald Trump . . .

    AP - Republican Wisconsin Senate candidate says he doesn’t oppose elderly people voting

    The Republican candidate in Wisconsin’s closely watched U.S. Senate race emphasized this week that he doesn’t oppose elderly people voting after initially saying that “almost nobody in a nursing home” is at a point in life where they are capable of voting.

    Eric Hovde faces Democratic Sen. Tammy Baldwin in the race that is essential for Democrats to win in order to maintain their majority in the Senate. A Marquette University Law School poll this week showed the race is about even among likely voters.

    Baldwin and Democrats have been attacking Hovde over comments he first made April 5 on a Fox News radio show about nursing home voting. Who can vote in a nursing home, and how they cast their ballots, has been a hot issue in Wisconsin since 2020 when supporters of former President Donald Trump alleged that people were voting illegally.

    No charges were brought, and President Joe Biden’s victory over Trump has withstood a nonpartisan audit, numerous lawsuits, a partial recount and a review by a conservative law firm.

    But Hovde has been raising the issue of nursing home voting when discussing what he said were problems with the 2020 election.

    “We had nursing homes where the sheriff of Racine investigated, where you had 100 percent voting in nursing homes,” Hovde said.

    That claim of 100% voting in nursing homes, first made by former Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Michael Gableman in a discredited report, has never been verified. Voting data has shown that participation in nursing homes across the state was much lower than 100%.

    “If you’re in a nursing home, you only have a five, six-month life expectancy,” Hovde said last week on the “Guy Benson Show.” “Almost nobody in a nursing home is in a point to vote.” . . .

    SSI - Amazing the self-inflicted harm that MAGA-maniacs from sea to shining sea, have been dishing out to themselves, in heaving helpings, by following their hero Donald Trump down THIS rabid rabbit hole.

    He raises any conspiracy theory going in order to discredit results he does not like. He doesn't seem to foresee that this has led more credulous followers to believe them, and undermine voting even that might benefit them or (as he wouldn't care about them), him.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    edited April 22
    [EDIT]

    .. Just remembered that some people use that as a reference to a particular person. So removed on the side of caution. (I really did mean the original reference innocently!)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Sky News — Lords is about to resume sitting.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,513

    According to the Pakistani authorities…

    Report:— More Pakistanis emigrated to UK in last 14 months (Jan 2023 to Feb 2024), than they did in previous 51 years (1971-2022).
    https://x.com/southasiaindex/status/1780617088211587373?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg

    Can this be true?

    The numbers look like garbage.
    Since 1971 Pakistan and Bangladesh have been separate countries, does that make a difference?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    a
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson told me he wished he was black, claims journalist

    Afua Hirsch says former PM made ‘problematic remarks’ about her in 2008 in the presence of his then-wife Marina Wheeler

    Amy Gibbons"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/22/boris-johnson-ex-wife-marina-wheeler-wished-he-was-black/

    Genuine question for the club - why is race fluidity not acceptable?

    We live in an era where people sun tan themselves a darker shade without a thought. Fake tan is all over the place. There are tons of skin lightening products out there.

    I’m quite certain, silly Michael Jackson comments aside, that lots of people have had cosmetic surgery to appear more like a different ethnic group.
    • i) It used to be said that England was a country where it was still possible for a thing to be neither compulsory nor forbidden. Sadly I don't think that's true anymore
    • ii) if it is unacceptable, then how is the unacceptability to be enforced? Specific name types reserved to specific races? Dress codes enforced by law? I realise this is enforced these days by a taboo against cultural appropriation, but that is to my mind regrettable. We are becoming very censorious and authoritarian.
    Enforced - oh, the usual, probably. Campaigns to declare self allocation of race as a hate crime. Push employers to fire people. No platforming.

    The ways the modern rifs on witch hunting work.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    "Met chief Sir Mark Rowley defends sergeant who made ‘openly Jewish’ remarks

    The Met Police Commissioner says while some of the language used to Gideon Falter was ‘clumsy’, the officer was just trying to protect him"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/22/sir-mark-rowley-met-police-defends-sergeant-openly-jewish/
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    ….
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Off topic, but timely: Earth Day, and no doubt news organizations all over the UK are giving extensive coverage to George H. W. Bush’s remarkable environmental achievements. And they were remarkable. I assume the BBC and the Guardian are leading that effort.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214
    And that's that.

    The House of Lords have not proposed any further amendments, so the Safety of Rwanda Bill will now pass after the Commons rejected the Lords amendments.

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1782539133308567681

    I hope they're all proud of themselves.

    And if I weren't lovely, I'd be tempted to hope that Rishi reincarnates as a refugee.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950

    And that's that.

    The House of Lords have not proposed any further amendments, so the Safety of Rwanda Bill will now pass after the Commons rejected the Lords amendments.

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1782539133308567681

    I hope they're all proud of themselves.

    And if I weren't lovely, I'd be tempted to hope that Rishi reincarnates as a refugee.

    I’m not lovely.
    A refugee without papers in a Libyan detention centre,
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful - that thread on drinks and food in their natural surroundings

    It’s true, a Philp’s Cornish pasty, fresh and warm and peppery from the bakery in Hayle, eaten on the sea wall, gazing at the waves, after a vigorous cliff top hike, is an absolute thing of beauty. Eaten at home for supper, hmm no. I mean, it’s OK. But you need that working man’s appetite, the salty sea air, the soft crust in your hand, the aaaahhhhh

    A peaty Islay malt in front of a roaring fire in a baronial hotel somewhere in Hebrides after a day in the sad and misty loveliness, yes indeed

    Maldon Oysters at the Maldon oyster shack on Mersea island, right on the River Blackwater where they have been gathered since Roman times, and celebrated

    “The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters” - Pliny

    Oh btw. Your wrong. And right.

    A day spent in a colder than usual Paris certainly its fair share of yuk including the gentleman lying in his own vomit outside GdN. Coming into town on the Metro no particular issues could have been the Central line if the Central line were roomier and less ghastly. A gang of African youths apologising profusely to the older woman they had inadvertently bumped into while chatting.

    Emerging at Argentine to make my way to my hotel I was met by nothing more or less than a bustling capital city with all that that entails, and then, closer to my hotel the magic arose. Higgledy Piggledy bars and cafes, spilling out onto the streets as they do, full of seemingly attractive people, moreso than you'd find in Dalston, and going to the most bog standard of bog standard brasseries for supper and it being fantastic, good burger, phenomenal chips and the patron brought over a liqueur to aid sleep. Then walking out into the mid-evening sunshine whereunder everything was given a further golden sheen.

    Lovely.
    So utterly predictable. You have to go out and NOTICE

    You took one metro line to a brasserie you know in a nice neighbourhood you like. Brilliant. Your Pulitzer Prize awaits
    I didn't know the brasserie just walked in off the street. Never been to it before in my life. But fantastic burger and chips I eschewed the french onion soup. Had walked there, let's say 20 mins from my hotel. And yes it's around Ternes but weren't you yesterday saying how even the nice neighbourhoods were shite. I believe you were. And they aren't.

    And I was doing a lot of noticing tyvm. But normal, out and about aware noticing, not professional noticing whereby you conjure up things that aren't there so that you can notice them and then write about them.
    I forgive you. I presume you are in Paris for work and you have people to meet and things to do. You don’t want to go somewhere nasty just for the sake of it. And You can’t spend an entire weekend wandering around central Paris - walking 7-8 hours a day - taking photos and notes. I can, because that’s exactly my job
    Which is my point. Paris is fine. More than fine. Chic. I like it a lot I like the cafe culture which we never managed to recreate in the UK and which is so effortless in Paris and for some reason the people there seem super attractive. I like just walking around (I like just walking around in London also).

    But the danger you run is that you walk around for 7-8 hours a day and after hour 5.5 you think fuck. This is just a normal capital city which has its good bits and its bad bits. I don't have a story, you think. So let me try to create some kind of narrative. That will keep them reading until the end, so you say Paris is shit. Used to be city of romance now is city of needles and tent cities and crap. Much better story but you also know that it isn't *exactly* the case as you walk around. There's no real story and your undoubted art is that you can make a story out of no real story. But it's only a story. Not the reality.
    No, I really do notice. It’s my job
    Can you honestly say you don't go with an agenda? Bad news sells after all.
    I think it was Jay Rayner, or Adrian Gill, or one of them perhaps Giles Coren, who said that their bad restaurant reviews (restaurant bad, not the review...) were hugely more popular than their good ones. They said it was tempting to make them all bad.
    It's always more interesting to read one-star reviews. My favourite was a bloke who drove his girlfriend from London to Durness one day and requested two glasses of champagne on arrival. 'Sorry, sir, we can only sell it by the bottle,' he was told. This provoked a one-star review and a scathing comment about the meanness of the Scots. Imagine the mentality of someone who drives 700 miles, presumably in an ostentatious motor, but is too mean to shell out for a bottle of fizz when he gets there.

    I've done that drive myself, by the way. Psychosis sets in around Perth.
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson told me he wished he was black, claims journalist

    Afua Hirsch says former PM made ‘problematic remarks’ about her in 2008 in the presence of his then-wife Marina Wheeler

    Amy Gibbons"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/22/boris-johnson-ex-wife-marina-wheeler-wished-he-was-black/

    Genuine question for the club - why is race fluidity not acceptable?

    We live in an era where people sun tan themselves a darker shade without a thought. Fake tan is all over the place. There are tons of skin lightening products out there.

    I’m quite certain, silly Michael Jackson comments aside, that lots of people have had cosmetic surgery to appear more like a different ethnic group.
    It should be acceptable. People can choose to be whatever they like, after all.
    Weren’t you on here a few days ago saying you disapproved of people making cosmetic changes to their bodies? (I might have misunderstood)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited April 22
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I’ve never been to church other than weddings, funerals or christenings but, as someone who is sad that Christianity is no longer going to be the dominant faith in England when my kids are grown up, I feel I should start.

    I won’t though, the same way I like the independent shops in our High St and still order stuff cheaper online. When they’re gone I’ll miss them & complaint that people never used them, as my houses value plummets

    https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/why-are-all-the-pubs-closing-ask-people-who-never-go-to-the-pub-200903051623
    Very true.

    I think it was Peter Hitchens who said we are basking in the afterglow of the old Christian England, but by doing nothing to preserve it we are destroying it.
    The problem is you can't really pretend to believe in something. Going to church when you don't believe in any of it would be slightly ridiculous.
    Not that uncommon! Just look at parents trying to get their nippers into a Church school.

    But if you do, beware it might start to grow on you. Not everyone gets a revelation in a blinding flash out of the blue, indeed even many great religious teachers spend years searching and preparing their minds.

    Indeed part of my spiritual journey was by studying the KJV as literature, and finding things that I didn't expect that really resonated.
    I recently attended an event which I'm pretty sure must have been organised by a church group or something, as lots of people talked about their faith at it, and it was quite illuminating in some ways, hearing them talk in a way which very clearly presumed everyone present was a believer and on board with certain positions.

    It reinforced my view that a lot of (not all) theists and atheists have not the slightest understanding of each other's positions.
    Even Richard Dawkins seems to be realising the snag with being an atheist in England… it leads to other religions taking over, and Dawkins seems to like everything about Christianity, except that he thinks it’s fiction

    https://x.com/middleeasteye/status/1774813982647623685?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    Andy_JS said:

    "Met chief Sir Mark Rowley defends sergeant who made ‘openly Jewish’ remarks

    The Met Police Commissioner says while some of the language used to Gideon Falter was ‘clumsy’, the officer was just trying to protect him"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/22/sir-mark-rowley-met-police-defends-sergeant-openly-jewish/

    It's hard to see how this will develop. I am amazed that Mark Rowley is still in his job. He is paid to keep the peace and that's what he seems to be trying to do.

    He released the information that the police have prevented pro-Palestinian processions from taking place through what he calls "Jewish areas" in London. It would be interesting to know what the Shomrim think about this. Indeed it would be interesting to know what Falter thinks. Does he have a problem with there being areas of London that are "no go" for those who support the Palestinians?

    Meanwhile Falter says he can bring 1500 supporters to go on a "walk" on Saturday.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13338181/campaigner-arrest-openly-Jewish-Palestine-march-police.html

    Recall that routes of marches must be notified to the police. Apparently Falter's march will "follow the route of a pro-Palestinian march in London to 'force the police to make sure that these things are safe for Jewish people'." That's not the first time he has spoken of forcing the police. The police won't like that one bit.

    The pro-Palestinian march is set to leave from Parliament Square and end up in Hyde Park. Participants are asked to assemble at 12 noon.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited April 22

    Off topic, but timely: Earth Day, and no doubt news organizations all over the UK are giving extensive coverage to George H. W. Bush’s remarkable environmental achievements. And they were remarkable. I assume the BBC and the Guardian are leading that effort.

    Margaret Thatcher was also a big supporter of environmental policies in the late 80s / early 90s. For instance, this speech in 1989.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnAzoDtwCBg
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    edited April 22
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson told me he wished he was black, claims journalist

    Afua Hirsch says former PM made ‘problematic remarks’ about her in 2008 in the presence of his then-wife Marina Wheeler

    Amy Gibbons"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/22/boris-johnson-ex-wife-marina-wheeler-wished-he-was-black/

    Genuine question for the club - why is race fluidity not acceptable?

    We live in an era where people sun tan themselves a darker shade without a thought. Fake tan is all over the place. There are tons of skin lightening products out there.

    I’m quite certain, silly Michael Jackson comments aside, that lots of people have had cosmetic surgery to appear more like a different ethnic group.
    It should be acceptable. People can choose to be whatever they like, after all.
    It's more complicated than that. There are cosmetics such as one called "Whitenicious" that are marketed (successfully) to black women. The controversy is not about freedom but about self-image and the promotion of whiteness as "better".

    That's very different from white guys trying to speak "street black", or white people playing kinds of music that were first played by black people. The latter is something that only an idiot has some kind of problem with. Lee Brilleaux of Dr Feelgood was once asked whether he thought it was OK, and he just said yes, and that was that - let's move on to the next question, it's obviously OK.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    edited April 22
    Andy_JS said:

    "Met chief Sir Mark Rowley defends sergeant who made ‘openly Jewish’ remarks

    The Met Police Commissioner says while some of the language used to Gideon Falter was ‘clumsy’, the officer was just trying to protect him"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/22/sir-mark-rowley-met-police-defends-sergeant-openly-jewish/

    Hmmm... Sounds like The Met chief, SIR Mark Rowley, is victim shaming? 🤷‍♂️
  • legatuslegatus Posts: 126

    And that's that.

    The House of Lords have not proposed any further amendments, so the Safety of Rwanda Bill will now pass after the Commons rejected the Lords amendments.

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1782539133308567681

    I hope they're all proud of themselves.

    And if I weren't lovely, I'd be tempted to hope that Rishi reincarnates as a refugee.

    And that's that.

    The House of Lords have not proposed any further amendments, so the Safety of Rwanda Bill will now pass after the Commons rejected the Lords amendments.

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1782539133308567681

    I hope they're all proud of themselves.

    And if I weren't lovely, I'd be tempted to hope that Rishi reincarnates as a refugee.

    Like so many in this administration, he is already 'a lower form of life.'
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    edited April 22
    Andy_JS said:

    Off topic, but timely: Earth Day, and no doubt news organizations all over the UK are giving extensive coverage to George H. W. Bush’s remarkable environmental achievements. And they were remarkable. I assume the BBC and the Guardian are leading that effort.

    Margaret Thatcher was also a big supporter of environmental policies in the late 80s / early 90s. For instance, this speech in 1989.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnAzoDtwCBg
    The Blessed St. Margaret was actually the godfather (or should that be godmother, or maybe even godperson ;) of Global Warming/Climate Change theory) starting 1989.

    Yes, the theory had been around for 100 years, but Mrs T took it mainstream (that's why ultra lefties like Piers Corbyn are anti-AGW)

    Was it just a ruse to give her cover for eviscerating the miners? Or did she really believe it? I wonder... ???
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Hold that Gravy Train!

    Reverse ferret incoming:

    It appears that the leadership of the Scottish Greens have deleted ALL their tweets about the Cass Review.

    https://x.com/WingsScotland/status/1782555275636981807
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    Hold that Gravy Train!

    Reverse ferret incoming:

    It appears that the leadership of the Scottish Greens have deleted ALL their tweets about the Cass Review.

    https://x.com/WingsScotland/status/1782555275636981807

    Oh. What brought this on?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Of course I know how Jewish Brits feel about 7/10 and aftermath, though most such I know are ashamed of their own disreputable Netanyahu government, but often don’t say openly because of the war. I expect you know that too

    https://x.com/michaelwhite/status/1782164072026325088

    Readers added context they thought people might want to know
    The government of "British Jews" is the British government, not the Israeli government, because they are British. The Netanyahu government is therefore not "their own".
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Andy_JS said:

    Hold that Gravy Train!

    Reverse ferret incoming:

    It appears that the leadership of the Scottish Greens have deleted ALL their tweets about the Cass Review.

    https://x.com/WingsScotland/status/1782555275636981807

    Oh. What brought this on?
    Prospect of tearing up Bute House agreement and losing ministerial salaries

    Mature reflection after discussion with SNP government colleagues
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited April 23
    Probably the most extraordinary segment of the Post Office inquiry so far.

    Starting at about 2 hours, 19 mins, 50 secs. Rod Ismay talks about his "objective report."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhOpLI3wq28
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,574
    Andy_JS said:

    Hold that Gravy Train!

    Reverse ferret incoming:

    It appears that the leadership of the Scottish Greens have deleted ALL their tweets about the Cass Review.

    https://x.com/WingsScotland/status/1782555275636981807

    Oh. What brought this on?
    Perhaps they read it?

    I mean, probably not, but one can dream.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    edited April 23
    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Off topic, but timely: Earth Day, and no doubt news organizations all over the UK are giving extensive coverage to George H. W. Bush’s remarkable environmental achievements. And they were remarkable. I assume the BBC and the Guardian are leading that effort.

    Margaret Thatcher was also a big supporter of environmental policies in the late 80s / early 90s. For instance, this speech in 1989.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnAzoDtwCBg
    The Blessed St. Margaret was actually the godfather (or should that be godmother, or maybe even godperson ;) of Global Warming/Climate Change theory) starting 1989.

    Yes, the theory had been around for 100 years, but Mrs T took it mainstream (that's why ultra lefties like Piers Corbyn are anti-AGW)

    Was it just a ruse to give her cover for eviscerating the miners? Or did she really believe it? I wonder... ???
    She was a proper scientist, in the days when a woman becoming a research chemist at Oxford was not so easy, so I'm going with true believer.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,077

    Hold that Gravy Train!

    Reverse ferret incoming:

    It appears that the leadership of the Scottish Greens have deleted ALL their tweets about the Cass Review.

    https://x.com/WingsScotland/status/1782555275636981807

    The Scottish Greens were given a choice of defeat or dishonour. They chose dishonour, but will have defeat.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Off topic, but timely: Earth Day, and no doubt news organizations all over the UK are giving extensive coverage to George H. W. Bush’s remarkable environmental achievements. And they were remarkable. I assume the BBC and the Guardian are leading that effort.

    Margaret Thatcher was also a big supporter of environmental policies in the late 80s / early 90s. For instance, this speech in 1989.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnAzoDtwCBg
    The Blessed St. Margaret was actually the godfather (or should that be godmother, or maybe even godperson ;) of Global Warming/Climate Change theory) starting 1989.

    Yes, the theory had been around for 100 years, but Mrs T took it mainstream (that's why ultra lefties like Piers Corbyn are anti-AGW)

    Was it just a ruse to give her cover for eviscerating the miners? Or did she really believe it? I wonder... ???
    She was a proper scientist, in the days when a woman becoming a research chemist at Oxford was not so easy, so I'm going with true believer.
    A pedant writes: Mrs Thatcher was not a research chemist at Oxford. She got a chemistry degree from Oxford which in those days included a research year, but on graduation left Oxford to become a research chemist in industry.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,077
    A foot of snow overnight in Tallinn... we are all getting pretty sick of this neverending winter... I don't even like Turkish delight either...
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Off topic, but timely: Earth Day, and no doubt news organizations all over the UK are giving extensive coverage to George H. W. Bush’s remarkable environmental achievements. And they were remarkable. I assume the BBC and the Guardian are leading that effort.

    Margaret Thatcher was also a big supporter of environmental policies in the late 80s / early 90s. For instance, this speech in 1989.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnAzoDtwCBg
    The Blessed St. Margaret was actually the godfather (or should that be godmother, or maybe even godperson ;) of Global Warming/Climate Change theory) starting 1989.

    Yes, the theory had been around for 100 years, but Mrs T took it mainstream (that's why ultra lefties like Piers Corbyn are anti-AGW)

    Was it just a ruse to give her cover for eviscerating the miners? Or did she really believe it? I wonder... ???
    She was a proper scientist, in the days when a woman becoming a research chemist at Oxford was not so easy, so I'm going with true believer.
    A pedant writes: Mrs Thatcher was not a research chemist at Oxford. She got a chemistry degree from Oxford which in those days included a research year, but on graduation left Oxford to become a research chemist in industry.
    Didn’t she help,invent the Mr Whippy style Ice Cream, or is that an urban myth.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    edited April 23
    Taz said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Off topic, but timely: Earth Day, and no doubt news organizations all over the UK are giving extensive coverage to George H. W. Bush’s remarkable environmental achievements. And they were remarkable. I assume the BBC and the Guardian are leading that effort.

    Margaret Thatcher was also a big supporter of environmental policies in the late 80s / early 90s. For instance, this speech in 1989.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnAzoDtwCBg
    The Blessed St. Margaret was actually the godfather (or should that be godmother, or maybe even godperson ;) of Global Warming/Climate Change theory) starting 1989.

    Yes, the theory had been around for 100 years, but Mrs T took it mainstream (that's why ultra lefties like Piers Corbyn are anti-AGW)

    Was it just a ruse to give her cover for eviscerating the miners? Or did she really believe it? I wonder... ???
    She was a proper scientist, in the days when a woman becoming a research chemist at Oxford was not so easy, so I'm going with true believer.
    A pedant writes: Mrs Thatcher was not a research chemist at Oxford. She got a chemistry degree from Oxford which in those days included a research year, but on graduation left Oxford to become a research chemist in industry.
    Didn’t she help,invent the Mr Whippy style Ice Cream, or is that an urban myth.
    I'm not sure anyone really knows the extent of her involvement. Certainly Mrs Thatcher was invention-adjacent. It is a shame no-one thought to ask her.

    ETA The Guardian quotes The New Yorker that it was an American invention brought to Britain by Mrs Thatcher's employer. It is still possible she did some work on the project.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2013/apr/17/margaret-thatcher-team-mr-whippy
  • CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 480
    I am beginning to think the haste in passeing the Rwanda bill and planes taking off could mean the government is plotting a summer GE (July is the second half of the year as Sunak keeps saying). They just want to be able to cross it off their list, not actually test if it will work... because it won't. If the bill is allowed to actually work over time it will merely be revealed as expensive (£2.000.000 per asylum seeker), it won't deter anybody and the boats will keep coming at an undiminished rate.
    This means that the Rwanda bill only works as a policy "victory" and as long as the curtains aren't pulled back on its actual workings. To me that screams July GE, set to coincide with a flight as a gimmick.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620

    NEW THREAD

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Off topic, but timely: Earth Day, and no doubt news organizations all over the UK are giving extensive coverage to George H. W. Bush’s remarkable environmental achievements. And they were remarkable. I assume the BBC and the Guardian are leading that effort.

    Margaret Thatcher was also a big supporter of environmental policies in the late 80s / early 90s. For instance, this speech in 1989.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnAzoDtwCBg
    The Blessed St. Margaret was actually the godfather (or should that be godmother, or maybe even godperson ;) of Global Warming/Climate Change theory) starting 1989.

    Yes, the theory had been around for 100 years, but Mrs T took it mainstream (that's why ultra lefties like Piers Corbyn are anti-AGW)

    Was it just a ruse to give her cover for eviscerating the miners? Or did she really believe it? I wonder... ???
    She was previously a major driving force behind the international agreements on CFCs and SO2 reductions.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Betting post:

    I’ve just had a quick look at the odds for the Euros - as ever England look like a horrible value bet now as 3/1 *favourites*.

    Germany at 6 look decent though; France at 4 I think are the actual favourites but not really value there. Italy at 16 looks OK to. And the Euros have a history of throwing up slightly unexpected runs for surprising teams - though nothing truly tempting - the qualifying groups were quite imbalanced so some teams ended with quite flattering results (e.g. Portugal; Hungary) that I’m not sure will translate to success in the finals.

    Rasmus Højlund at 33s could be worth a go for top scorer long shot.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,747

    ... If the bill is allowed to actually work over time it will merely be revealed as expensive (£2.000.000 per asylum seeker) ....

    But we already know how much we're paying the Rwandans per head. It doesn't need time to reveal that.

    All it needs is for the electors to be told clearly the facts of the matter:
    (1) This only makes sense if it takes the UK more than £2m to process an asylum seeker
    (2) It's not going to be any deterrent because the whole scheme amounts to only 10% of the number of people who came in boats just last year.
    (3) The number of people coming in boats is only a tiny fraction of the number of people the government is letting in legally!

  • CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 480
    Chris said:

    ... If the bill is allowed to actually work over time it will merely be revealed as expensive (£2.000.000 per asylum seeker) ....

    But we already know how much we're paying the Rwandans per head. It doesn't need time to reveal that.

    All it needs is for the electors to be told clearly the facts of the matter:
    (1) This only makes sense if it takes the UK more than £2m to process an asylum seeker
    (2) It's not going to be any deterrent because the whole scheme amounts to only 10% of the number of people who came in boats just last year.
    (3) The number of people coming in boats is only a tiny fraction of the number of people the government is letting in legally!

    They just want the electoral win to advertise in a summer campaign.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    Chris said:

    ... If the bill is allowed to actually work over time it will merely be revealed as expensive (£2.000.000 per asylum seeker) ....

    But we already know how much we're paying the Rwandans per head. It doesn't need time to reveal that.

    All it needs is for the electors to be told clearly the facts of the matter:
    (1) This only makes sense if it takes the UK more than £2m to process an asylum seeker
    (2) It's not going to be any deterrent because the whole scheme amounts to only 10% of the number of people who came in boats just last year.
    (3) The number of people coming in boats is only a tiny fraction of the number of people the government is letting in legally!

    I’m sorry. You appear to be attempting parse a modern political policy on the basis of evidence & effectiveness.

    Off to ConHome with you, until you wise up.
This discussion has been closed.