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The history of gambling – politicalbetting.com

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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700

    Channel4 line-up for the GE.

    Emily Maitlis joining Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Alastair Campbell, Rory Stewart, Clare Balding and #Gogglebox stars.
    https://www.tvzoneuk.com/post/c4-generalelection2024-ann1

    Are they sure all five of them will still be available by January 2025?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603

    dixiedean said:

    Channel4 line-up for the GE.

    Emily Maitlis joining Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Alastair Campbell, Rory Stewart, Clare Balding and #Gogglebox stars.
    https://www.tvzoneuk.com/post/c4-generalelection2024-ann1

    Thanks for the warning.
    Clare Balding seems an odd choice.
    "It's Dicey Ticey on the far side in pursuit of Yellow Peril in third place with Toolmaker's Son ahead of Tory Scum as they approach the last..."
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    nico679 said:

    Apparently we’re going to be seeing a lot of Sunak this week . With a host of announcements , news conferences and a visit to Warsaw .

    Oh God I can hardly wait !

    What's the visit to Warsaw about?

    Apparently the next European Political Community meeting is at Blenheim in July.
    "Apparently we’re going to be seeing a lot of Sunak this week"

    He's utterly determined to see that Tory-Reform polling crossover isn't he?
    The more he speaks, the worse it gets.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978

    dixiedean said:

    Channel4 line-up for the GE.

    Emily Maitlis joining Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Alastair Campbell, Rory Stewart, Clare Balding and #Gogglebox stars.
    https://www.tvzoneuk.com/post/c4-generalelection2024-ann1

    Thanks for the warning.
    Clare Balding seems an odd choice.
    "It's Dicey Ticey on the far side in pursuit of Yellow Peril in third place with Toolmaker's Son ahead of Tory Scum as they approach the last..."
    And what's this, some people are on the course, they are chaining themselves to the fences....
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,678
    edited April 21

    dixiedean said:

    Channel4 line-up for the GE.

    Emily Maitlis joining Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Alastair Campbell, Rory Stewart, Clare Balding and #Gogglebox stars.
    https://www.tvzoneuk.com/post/c4-generalelection2024-ann1

    Thanks for the warning.
    Clare Balding seems an odd choice.
    Why is she on literally everything? I saw a supermarket TV ad the other day. The concept was about an ordinary family doing their weekly shop, but for some reason they shoehorned Clare Balding into the middle of it for no discernible purpose.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    Cyclefree said:

    This article in the Sunday Times about the blood contamination scandal really deserves to be read.

    "Despite the scandal being the deadliest man-made disaster in postwar British history, no organisation or individual has been held to account. A patchwork system of payouts has failed to compensate for the lives lost or destroyed.

    While other countries grappling with the same horrors made attempts to rectify the wrongs wrought on their citizens, Britain chose a different path. Successive governments under 11 prime ministers have kicked the can down the road.

    Why five decades have passed without justice is difficult to answer. One possible explanation is the presence of the NHS at the heart of this scandal. The institution, a totemic part of British life, is the largest publicly funded health service in the world. There would have been calamitous financial liabilities for the British state.

    There is also the secretive nature of the state which, as in the Post Office scandal, has allowed those in authority to use their power to protect themselves, or their institution.
    "

    The bit highlighted in bold = British exceptionalism.

    Actually paying out would imply guilt for some #NU10Kers.

    This would be spiteful and hurtful to these hardworking people. And might Erode Trust In Public Institutions.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    It's coming up to 11pm so I have to wrap up. Thanks to @Carnyx, @JosiasJessop, @Casino_Royale, @Jim_Miller, @LostPassword, @kinabalu, @Taz, @MattW, @Theuniondivvie, @isam, @Cleitophon, @Donkeys, @Theuniondivvie, @isam, @Andy_JS, @darkage for your remarks. I can't respond to all of them but some notes are below. Apologies to anybody I overlooked.

    @Jim_Miller, @MattW, @SeaShantyIrish2: I note your remarks about American gambling. I like them, but I can't expand scope.
    @LostPassword, @DavidL, @DecrepiterJohnL: I note your stance on recent gambling expansion. I don't agree but I do note your points. I had to cut it off somewhere and 1960 was the obvious point
    @Donkeys: No, I did mention the pools
    @Donkeys: I note your point about the Mafia, but I had to cut it off somewhere and 1960 was the obvious point
    @DecrepiterJohnL: Yes, Cyril Stein being a famous example.
    @Carnyx: No, I did mention the bingo
    @Theuniondivvie, @isam: I note and agree with your points regarding gambling advertising. Isam, nice to read http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com again. You may want to write a header, btw :)
    @Carnyx: thank you for mentioning https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Better_Betting_with_a_Decent_Feller
    @darkage: thank you for mentioning "the rule of laws: a 4000 year quest to order the world" by Fernanda Pirie.
    @Andy_JS: I don't know if online betting exchanges are banned in the US
    @Carnyx, thank you for your posts https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4754399/#Comment_4754399 and https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4754374#Comment_4754374 .

    I don't know if I can expand the piece much as it's designed to be an overview, so no promises about an extended cut, or at least not a major revision. As ever, thank you for your contributions, both pro and con, and here's to the next article... :)
  • WaterfallWaterfall Posts: 96

    nico679 said:

    Apparently we’re going to be seeing a lot of Sunak this week . With a host of announcements , news conferences and a visit to Warsaw .

    Oh God I can hardly wait !

    What's the visit to Warsaw about?

    Apparently the next European Political Community meeting is at Blenheim in July.
    "Apparently we’re going to be seeing a lot of Sunak this week"

    He's utterly determined to see that Tory-Reform polling crossover isn't he?
    The more he speaks, the worse it gets.
    Even my dad a staunch tory is complaining about the attack on the sick and disabled. Another own goal from Rishi Rich.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    When Ron DeSantis, Matt Gaetz and their kind of con-jobber hyper-hypocrites have been consigned to the Toxic Waste Bin of History, Bob Graham will still be remembered along with at least two other 20th-century Florida politicos: Claude Pepper and Lawton Chiles.

    > Bob Graham who campaigned as a candidate AND elected official, by regularly working at a host of REAL jobs - and NOT just showing up for a photo op (though that was ok by BG) but actually doing some actual work.

    > Claude Pepper, who was defeated for re-election to US Senator, by lesser opponent who called him "Red Pepper" and accused CP's sister of being "a practicing thespian", but who went on to serve in US House for multiple terms, becoming nationally renowned as a staunch advocate for senior citizens.

    > Lawton Chiles, who became famous by campaigning across the State of Florida . . . by WALKING across the State of Florida . . . BTW mileage Key West to Pensacola only 830 miles!

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307

    Cyclefree said:

    This article in the Sunday Times about the blood contamination scandal really deserves to be read.

    "Despite the scandal being the deadliest man-made disaster in postwar British history, no organisation or individual has been held to account. A patchwork system of payouts has failed to compensate for the lives lost or destroyed.

    While other countries grappling with the same horrors made attempts to rectify the wrongs wrought on their citizens, Britain chose a different path. Successive governments under 11 prime ministers have kicked the can down the road.

    Why five decades have passed without justice is difficult to answer. One possible explanation is the presence of the NHS at the heart of this scandal. The institution, a totemic part of British life, is the largest publicly funded health service in the world. There would have been calamitous financial liabilities for the British state.

    There is also the secretive nature of the state which, as in the Post Office scandal, has allowed those in authority to use their power to protect themselves, or their institution.
    "

    The bit highlighted in bold = British exceptionalism.

    Actually paying out would imply guilt for some #NU10Kers.

    This would be spiteful and hurtful to these hardworking people. And might Erode Trust In Public Institutions.
    What trust?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    edited April 21
    Re. header.

    If we didn't have The Poor to f*ck around with, then what really would be the point in having power? Make them jump through hoops and condemn them for their bad habits and woeful low productivity, then let them die young. They probably didn't even use the right terminology when reporting the symptoms to their overworked GP. Suckers.

    If they had some money left over to gamble with before they died then it's only fair we tax it. Otherwise we'd have to pay for our middle-class subsidies ourselves.

    Sheesh.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    Channel4 line-up for the GE.

    Emily Maitlis joining Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Alastair Campbell, Rory Stewart, Clare Balding and #Gogglebox stars.
    https://www.tvzoneuk.com/post/c4-generalelection2024-ann1

    I don't think Channel 4 normally have a dedicated election night show do they?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    Andy_JS said:

    Channel4 line-up for the GE.

    Emily Maitlis joining Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Alastair Campbell, Rory Stewart, Clare Balding and #Gogglebox stars.
    https://www.tvzoneuk.com/post/c4-generalelection2024-ann1

    I don't think Channel 4 normally have a dedicated election night show do they?
    They had one last time. Appears it was hosted by Krishnan Guru-Murthy and Katherine Ryan along with Rylan Clark and Claire Balding, Matt Forde and Rob Rinder. Obviously none of us watched as we don't even remember it.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    There's a detail in Washington state's elections that has charmed me for years: A Republican won the Secretary of State's office in 1964 (which was not a great year for Republicans), and Republicans held it until Kim Wyman resigned in 2021.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_of_State_of_Washington

    (A Democrat won the governor's office in 1984 (not a good year for Democrats), and Democrats have held it ever since. None of them have impressed me. I am sorry to say that the incumbent, Jay Inslee, may have peaked when he played high school basketball and football in Seattle.)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_governors_of_Washington

  • WaterfallWaterfall Posts: 96
    ohnotnow said:

    Re. header.

    If we didn't have The Poor to f*ck around with, then what really would be the point in having power? Make them jump through hoops and condemn them for their bad habits and woeful low productivity, then let them die young. They probably didn't even use the right terminology when reporting the symptoms to their overworked GP. Suckers.

    If they had some money left over to gamble with before they died then it's only fair we tax it. Otherwise we'd have to pay for our middle-class subsidies ourselves.

    Sheesh.

    For tory mps the point of having power seems to be getting high on drugs and shagging rent boys then ringing a little old lady from your constituency association in the dead of night to demand money to protect you from "bad men". After all tory mps cant be expected to pay a few grand from their own pockets. That accountability is only for the plebs.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Channel4 line-up for the GE.

    Emily Maitlis joining Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Alastair Campbell, Rory Stewart, Clare Balding and #Gogglebox stars.
    https://www.tvzoneuk.com/post/c4-generalelection2024-ann1

    I don't think Channel 4 normally have a dedicated election night show do they?
    They've had one the last few elections but being fronted mainly by comedians.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978

    Andy_JS said:

    Channel4 line-up for the GE.

    Emily Maitlis joining Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Alastair Campbell, Rory Stewart, Clare Balding and #Gogglebox stars.
    https://www.tvzoneuk.com/post/c4-generalelection2024-ann1

    I don't think Channel 4 normally have a dedicated election night show do they?
    They've had one the last few elections but being fronted mainly by comedians.
    No change then this time around ;-)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    Cyclefree said:

    Some have asked where the allegedly missing money in SPM branches went.

    Into Post Office suspense accounts and then to their bottom line.

    But, intriguingly, one SPM may have evidence of theft from her branch by those operating Horizon's back office remote access.

    https://www.postofficescandal.uk/post/pennys-printouts/

    https://youtu.be/RVl_sjUrNQE?si=ZhsNyBS9EcfwrWP3

    I think we just have genetically enhanced vat grown Ninja assassins left to be revealed.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    edited April 21

    Andy_JS said:

    Channel4 line-up for the GE.

    Emily Maitlis joining Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Alastair Campbell, Rory Stewart, Clare Balding and #Gogglebox stars.
    https://www.tvzoneuk.com/post/c4-generalelection2024-ann1

    I don't think Channel 4 normally have a dedicated election night show do they?
    They've had one the last few elections but being fronted mainly by comedians.
    No change then this time around ;-)
    LOL. IIRC from memory 2015 was hosted by the Last Leg stars.

    2024 its the Tory Party on its Last Leg.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This article in the Sunday Times about the blood contamination scandal really deserves to be read.

    "Despite the scandal being the deadliest man-made disaster in postwar British history, no organisation or individual has been held to account. A patchwork system of payouts has failed to compensate for the lives lost or destroyed.

    While other countries grappling with the same horrors made attempts to rectify the wrongs wrought on their citizens, Britain chose a different path. Successive governments under 11 prime ministers have kicked the can down the road.

    Why five decades have passed without justice is difficult to answer. One possible explanation is the presence of the NHS at the heart of this scandal. The institution, a totemic part of British life, is the largest publicly funded health service in the world. There would have been calamitous financial liabilities for the British state.

    There is also the secretive nature of the state which, as in the Post Office scandal, has allowed those in authority to use their power to protect themselves, or their institution.
    "

    The bit highlighted in bold = British exceptionalism.

    Actually paying out would imply guilt for some #NU10Kers.

    This would be spiteful and hurtful to these hardworking people. And might Erode Trust In Public Institutions.
    What trust?
    The Trust that they have nurtured and built through their Hard Work. The Trust that justifies their salaries and Golden Hellos and Golden Goodbyes.

    That Trust.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This article in the Sunday Times about the blood contamination scandal really deserves to be read.

    "Despite the scandal being the deadliest man-made disaster in postwar British history, no organisation or individual has been held to account. A patchwork system of payouts has failed to compensate for the lives lost or destroyed.

    While other countries grappling with the same horrors made attempts to rectify the wrongs wrought on their citizens, Britain chose a different path. Successive governments under 11 prime ministers have kicked the can down the road.

    Why five decades have passed without justice is difficult to answer. One possible explanation is the presence of the NHS at the heart of this scandal. The institution, a totemic part of British life, is the largest publicly funded health service in the world. There would have been calamitous financial liabilities for the British state.

    There is also the secretive nature of the state which, as in the Post Office scandal, has allowed those in authority to use their power to protect themselves, or their institution.
    "

    The bit highlighted in bold = British exceptionalism.

    Actually paying out would imply guilt for some #NU10Kers.

    This would be spiteful and hurtful to these hardworking people. And might Erode Trust In Public Institutions.
    What trust?
    The Trust that they have nurtured and built through their Hard Work. The Trust that justifies their salaries and Golden Hellos and Golden Goodbyes.

    That Trust.
    The Trust that's like a Unicorn, then.

    Really, you should have said. There I was getting excited at the prospect of some real life trust, trust you could actually trust. But no - let down again.

    Pffftt .....
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    Scott_xP said:

    The local elections on 2 May have long been regarded as a moment of high peril for Rishi Sunak, with the results likely to anticipate his party’s fate at the next election.

    “My colleagues are feeling very restless,” admits one moderate Tory MP. “Rishi needs to show us that the general election isn’t already lost. If we lose the mayoralties in May then I’m afraid we could be on course for a total wipeout. It could be very dangerous for him.”

    The Tories have already priced in heavy losses in the council elections, with experts predicting they face defeat in as many as half of their contested seats.

    “If your constituency chair is on the phone telling you that your local association has been wiped out, it’s quite difficult to defend ‘priced in’,” they said. “MPs aren’t on the battlefield this time, it’s like the Somme without the generals.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/21/like-the-somme-without-the-generals-tory-nerves-grow-as-local-elections-loom

    Like the Somme.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Andy_JS said:

    I once spent 72 hours without a break entering local election results into a spreadsheet for PB. This time I'm just going to watch the results like everyone else!

    Time comes for us all, but an announcement of this magnitude feels like it should be accompanied with more fan fare.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068

    Andy_JS said:

    Channel4 line-up for the GE.

    Emily Maitlis joining Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Alastair Campbell, Rory Stewart, Clare Balding and #Gogglebox stars.
    https://www.tvzoneuk.com/post/c4-generalelection2024-ann1

    I don't think Channel 4 normally have a dedicated election night show do they?
    They've had one the last few elections but being fronted mainly by comedians.
    Well that covers the parties, but what about Channel 4?

    :)
  • legatuslegatus Posts: 126
    test
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Fascinating header - thank you. I thought race course gambling was an "all class" affair - from the gentry to the plebs? From what I've read of Brighton Races that seemed to be the case in their Georgian heyday.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    In the Observer:

    We write as clinical psychologists with longstanding concerns about the scandal unfolding at Gender Identity Development Service clinics. Some of us are former Gids clinicians....

    These were psychology-led services. Whether intentionally or not, and many were doing their best in an impossible situation, it was clinical psychologists who promoted an ideology that was almost impossible to challenge; who, as the Cass report found, largely failed to carry out proper assessments of troubled young people, and thus put many on an “irreversible medical pathway” that in most cases was inappropriate; and who failed in their most basic duty to keep proper records.

    It is also our professional body, the British Psychological Society, that has failed (despite years of pressure) to produce guidelines for clinicians working with young people in this complex area; and that, forced into making an official response for the first time, now minimises its own role in events and calls for “more psychology” as the answer. We are ashamed of the role psychology has played....
    Sixteen senior clinical psychologists


    https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2024/apr/21/we-are-ashamed-of-role-psychology-played-gender-care-observer-letters
  • CatMan said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS asked: "Are online betting exchanges still banned in the US?"

    You'll have to ask someone more knowledgeable than I am.

    If you're in the US (which I assume you are) try going to the Betfair Exchange website. If it's blocked, the answer is probably yes they are banned.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange
    Sporttrade is licensed in New Jersey and Colorado. No idea on how good or safe it is.

    https://getsporttrade.com/about/
    Interesting. Especially New Jersey considers self-service gas stations to be TOO risky.

    https://www.kcra.com/article/state-illegal-to-pump-your-own-gas/44775222#

    SSI - Until last year (as noted in above story) it was also illegal to pump one's own gas (in at least one way anyway) in Oregon. Just one (less) reason why Washingtonians love to make fun of our neighbors the Ore-goners.

    OR is it Ore-goonians? Ask the next time you're in (Around-the-) Bend . . . and find out for yourself!
    "Sorry, this content is not available in your region"
    It doesn't make much sense in this region!

    (Sorry @SeaShantyIrish 😀)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    "This Is Hell': Boeing Whistleblower Tells Hawley Planes Aren’t Safe & He’s Being Targeted By Execs"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZsUHIGGW7M
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603
    Cicero said:

    Interesting commentary across US media after the House vote to support Ukraine. The defeat dished out to Moscow Marjorie and her treacherous MAGA chums seems to have emboldened the Never Trump Republicans. Seems like the Speaker will not be going anywhere in a hurry. The GOP are still likely to have big problems in the House elections, but calling out the Trumpians has put them on the spot (& even Trump has had to dial back his hostility to the aid package). With Trump under increasing legal pressure and MTG increasingly mocked, it may be that the MAGA fraction looks increasingly like losers... that could significantly alter the electoral dynamic in the coming couple of months. Not a done deal yet, of course, but the GOP are beginning to look like they may be in real difficulty.

    The bigger foreign policy issue for the election is likely to be Israel/Palestine. Protests are becoming more and more radicalised and will be a major problem for the Democrats.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    edited April 22
    change of mind: pic too big
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    German politician ‘filmed taking Russian money’
    Petr Bystron, of far-Right AfD party, allegedly given €20,000 by pro-Kremlin broadcaster

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/21/german-politician-allegedly-took-russian-money/ (£££)
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,574
    edited April 22
    Cicero said:

    Interesting commentary across US media after the House vote to support Ukraine. The defeat dished out to Moscow Marjorie and her treacherous MAGA chums seems to have emboldened the Never Trump Republicans. Seems like the Speaker will not be going anywhere in a hurry. The GOP are still likely to have big problems in the House elections, but calling out the Trumpians has put them on the spot (& even Trump has had to dial back his hostility to the aid package). With Trump under increasing legal pressure and MTG increasingly mocked, it may be that the MAGA fraction looks increasingly like losers... that could significantly alter the electoral dynamic in the coming couple of months. Not a done deal yet, of course, but the GOP are beginning to look like they may be in real difficulty.

    The NY post as bellwether:



    Edit: I see @TSE's vanilla photo settings tweak may have resulted in photos coming in too big on screen, rather than or as well as high res.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    edited April 22
    carnforth said:


    [image snipped]

    Edit: I see @TSE's vanilla photo settings tweak may have resulted in photos coming in too big on screen, rather than or as well as high res.

    Yes; there is not much point posting an image if we need to scroll up and down to see the whole thing and it makes pb less fun.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    edited April 22
    There is nearly a new thread but...
    Failed to find discussion for commenting.
    DiscussionID is required.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Interesting essay:

    There’s a reason the gender debate looks so perplexing from the point of view of many of those not in it. You might go mad trying to grapple with what’s going on if you don’t clue in that, to the adversaries in the ring, it’s an existential war between rival views about the nature of reality itself. This is a heavyweight philosophical and theological debate the likes of which we haven’t seen since Darwin came along and challenged the Biblical view of God’s Creation.

    But the battle of ideas around gender is a particularly strange sight to behold, because the factions endlessly trade intellectual punches that never manage to hit each others’ targets: it’s like the two sides exist on entirely separate epistemic planes of mental existence, and they merely cohabitate unhappily in the same material world. It brings to mind the Maitlands and the Deetzes in Beetlejuice, feuding families who both reside in the same haunted Connecticut home, while at the same time they’re living in completely different dimensions, making their attempts to directly engage with each other almost impossible.


    https://artymorty.substack.com/p/the-circle-of-horror-must-stop
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,747
    nico679 said:

    dixiedean said:

    nico679 said:

    Apparently we’re going to be seeing a lot of Sunak this week . With a host of announcements , news conferences and a visit to Warsaw .

    Oh God I can hardly wait !

    Expect 25 point leads incoming.
    The more I see of Sunak the more I loathe him. I might need the anti-nausea medication to get through the week . I wonder if the vomit inducing spineless gimp will be doing a Lectern moment for the Rwanda Bill.
    I have grave doubts about voting Lib Dem, even tactically, but every time I see Sunak now I feel like putting an orange sticker in my window,
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    carnforth said:

    Cicero said:

    Interesting commentary across US media after the House vote to support Ukraine. The defeat dished out to Moscow Marjorie and her treacherous MAGA chums seems to have emboldened the Never Trump Republicans. Seems like the Speaker will not be going anywhere in a hurry. The GOP are still likely to have big problems in the House elections, but calling out the Trumpians has put them on the spot (& even Trump has had to dial back his hostility to the aid package). With Trump under increasing legal pressure and MTG increasingly mocked, it may be that the MAGA fraction looks increasingly like losers... that could significantly alter the electoral dynamic in the coming couple of months. Not a done deal yet, of course, but the GOP are beginning to look like they may be in real difficulty.

    The NY post as bellwether:



    Edit: I see @TSE's vanilla photo settings tweak may have resulted in photos coming in too big on screen, rather than or as well as high res.
    GOP moderates aren't pulling punches.

    Bipartisan outrage boils over at threat to Johnson’s speakership
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/21/bipartisan-outrage-mike-johnson-speakership-00153527
    ..the prospect over yet another fight for the speakership after former Speaker Kevin McCarthy lost his gavel last year is not going over well in most of the GOP. And it’s boiling over in surprising ways as centrists grow tired of the constant threat to Johnson. Rep. Tony Gonzales (R-Texas) tore into his party’s right flank in an appearance on CNN, declaring that “the House is a rough and rowdy place, but Mike Johnson is going to be just fine.”

    “I serve with some real scumbags. Look, Matt Gaetz, he paid minors to have sex with him at drug parties, Bob Good endorsed my opponent, a known neo-Nazi,” Gonzales said on “State of the Union.” “These fringe people think they have the high ground. They do not.”..


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    There will to Democrat votes to keep him in place. On this occasion, at least.

    Khanna says Speaker Johnson ‘deserves to keep his job’
    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4610355-khanna-says-speaker-johnson-deserves-to-keep-his-job/
    ..The congressman said in an ABC “This Week” interview with Jonathan Karl on Sunday that Johnson deserves credit for the aid package passing.
    “We came into Congress together, and he always cared about civility. He actually led the civility pledge,” Khanna said. “And we had one issue, which was give individual votes, don’t lump things together. And I give him credit for doing this.”
    “I would actually vote to table any motion to vacate him,” he added.
    The progressive is known for his penchant to go out on his own, but he said that other progressives could also be willing to throw in votes to save Johnson from an ouster.
    “I’m a progressive Democrat, and I think you would have a few progressive Democrats doing that,” he said. “And I disagree with Speaker Johnson on many issues and have been very critical of him. But he did the right thing here, and he deserves to keep his job until the end of this term.”
    Greene’s motion to vacate is not yet set for a vote, as she has not made the resolution privileged. She has warned that she could make that move any day, adding pressure on Johnson’s position as the House GOP majority shrinks...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    NEW: US Senate Intelligence Committee Chairperson Senator Mark Warner reported on April 21 that US provisions of military aid to Ukraine, including long-range ATACMS missiles, will be in transit to Ukraine "by the end of the week" if the Senate passes the supplemental appropriations bill on April 23 and US President Joe Biden signs it by April 24.

    https://x.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1782220376518340902
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    carnforth said:

    Cicero said:

    Interesting commentary across US media after the House vote to support Ukraine. The defeat dished out to Moscow Marjorie and her treacherous MAGA chums seems to have emboldened the Never Trump Republicans. Seems like the Speaker will not be going anywhere in a hurry. The GOP are still likely to have big problems in the House elections, but calling out the Trumpians has put them on the spot (& even Trump has had to dial back his hostility to the aid package). With Trump under increasing legal pressure and MTG increasingly mocked, it may be that the MAGA fraction looks increasingly like losers... that could significantly alter the electoral dynamic in the coming couple of months. Not a done deal yet, of course, but the GOP are beginning to look like they may be in real difficulty.

    The NY post as bellwether:



    Edit: I see @TSE's vanilla photo settings tweak may have resulted in photos coming in too big on screen, rather than or as well as high res.
    If even the Post is getting fed up, the Republican Right are in for a truly epic spanking in November.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812
    Cicero said:

    Interesting commentary across US media after the House vote to support Ukraine. The defeat dished out to Moscow Marjorie and her treacherous MAGA chums seems to have emboldened the Never Trump Republicans. Seems like the Speaker will not be going anywhere in a hurry. The GOP are still likely to have big problems in the House elections, but calling out the Trumpians has put them on the spot (& even Trump has had to dial back his hostility to the aid package). With Trump under increasing legal pressure and MTG increasingly mocked, it may be that the MAGA fraction looks increasingly like losers... that could significantly alter the electoral dynamic in the coming couple of months. Not a done deal yet, of course, but the GOP are beginning to look like they may be in real difficulty.

    MTG, Gaetz et al are a fringe "group" of attention hungry misfits, not that relevant to Trump.

    Great that they are getting finally marginalised and ignored but it won't necessarily impact Trump and his grip on the Republican party.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354

    Cicero said:

    Interesting commentary across US media after the House vote to support Ukraine. The defeat dished out to Moscow Marjorie and her treacherous MAGA chums seems to have emboldened the Never Trump Republicans. Seems like the Speaker will not be going anywhere in a hurry. The GOP are still likely to have big problems in the House elections, but calling out the Trumpians has put them on the spot (& even Trump has had to dial back his hostility to the aid package). With Trump under increasing legal pressure and MTG increasingly mocked, it may be that the MAGA fraction looks increasingly like losers... that could significantly alter the electoral dynamic in the coming couple of months. Not a done deal yet, of course, but the GOP are beginning to look like they may be in real difficulty.

    MTG, Gaetz et al are a fringe "group" of attention hungry misfits, not that relevant to Trump.

    Great that they are getting finally marginalised and ignored but it won't necessarily impact Trump and his grip on the Republican party.
    Trump is also an attention hungry misfit and he certainly has a fringe.

    He is unfortunately also quite a powerful one.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited April 22
    Andy_JS said:

    Channel4 line-up for the GE.

    Emily Maitlis joining Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Alastair Campbell, Rory Stewart, Clare Balding and #Gogglebox stars.
    https://www.tvzoneuk.com/post/c4-generalelection2024-ann1

    I don't think Channel 4 normally have a dedicated election night show do they?
    Sky/ITV on mute for speed and BBC for accuracy and the most heavyweight comment is the default, Shirley?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    ...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812
    edited April 22

    Interesting essay:

    There’s a reason the gender debate looks so perplexing from the point of view of many of those not in it. You might go mad trying to grapple with what’s going on if you don’t clue in that, to the adversaries in the ring, it’s an existential war between rival views about the nature of reality itself. This is a heavyweight philosophical and theological debate the likes of which we haven’t seen since Darwin came along and challenged the Biblical view of God’s Creation.

    But the battle of ideas around gender is a particularly strange sight to behold, because the factions endlessly trade intellectual punches that never manage to hit each others’ targets: it’s like the two sides exist on entirely separate epistemic planes of mental existence, and they merely cohabitate unhappily in the same material world. It brings to mind the Maitlands and the Deetzes in Beetlejuice, feuding families who both reside in the same haunted Connecticut home, while at the same time they’re living in completely different dimensions, making their attempts to directly engage with each other almost impossible.


    https://artymorty.substack.com/p/the-circle-of-horror-must-stop

    I'd suggest it is not those outside the debate who are at the risk of going mad. And whilst agreement may be almost impossible, constructive engagement seems very possible if both sides can stop the attacks, park the 10% that is indeed hard to resolve and instead focus first on the 90% that compromises could be accepted on.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812
    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    Cicero said:

    Interesting commentary across US media after the House vote to support Ukraine. The defeat dished out to Moscow Marjorie and her treacherous MAGA chums seems to have emboldened the Never Trump Republicans. Seems like the Speaker will not be going anywhere in a hurry. The GOP are still likely to have big problems in the House elections, but calling out the Trumpians has put them on the spot (& even Trump has had to dial back his hostility to the aid package). With Trump under increasing legal pressure and MTG increasingly mocked, it may be that the MAGA fraction looks increasingly like losers... that could significantly alter the electoral dynamic in the coming couple of months. Not a done deal yet, of course, but the GOP are beginning to look like they may be in real difficulty.

    The NY post as bellwether:



    Edit: I see @TSE's vanilla photo settings tweak may have resulted in photos coming in too big on screen, rather than or as well as high res.
    If even the Post is getting fed up, the Republican Right are in for a truly epic spanking in November.
    Are some Tory MPs visiting that time of year then?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Interesting essay:

    There’s a reason the gender debate looks so perplexing from the point of view of many of those not in it. You might go mad trying to grapple with what’s going on if you don’t clue in that, to the adversaries in the ring, it’s an existential war between rival views about the nature of reality itself. This is a heavyweight philosophical and theological debate the likes of which we haven’t seen since Darwin came along and challenged the Biblical view of God’s Creation.

    But the battle of ideas around gender is a particularly strange sight to behold, because the factions endlessly trade intellectual punches that never manage to hit each others’ targets: it’s like the two sides exist on entirely separate epistemic planes of mental existence, and they merely cohabitate unhappily in the same material world. It brings to mind the Maitlands and the Deetzes in Beetlejuice, feuding families who both reside in the same haunted Connecticut home, while at the same time they’re living in completely different dimensions, making their attempts to directly engage with each other almost impossible.


    https://artymorty.substack.com/p/the-circle-of-horror-must-stop

    I'd suggest it is not those outside the debate who are at the risk of going mad. And whilst agreement may be almost impossible, constructive engagement seems very possible if both sides can stop the attacks, park the 10% that is indeed hard to resolve and instead focus first on the 90% that compromises could be accepted on.
    "Both sides'.

    Which Trans Activist academics, doctors, psychiatrists, social workers or barristers have been driven from their positions by sex realists?

    Which sex realists have lied about the content of the Cass report and spread disinformation?

    While Dr Cass was even handed in her report, subsequent interviews have been very clear on which side the attacks are coming from.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620

    NEW THREAD

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812

    Interesting essay:

    There’s a reason the gender debate looks so perplexing from the point of view of many of those not in it. You might go mad trying to grapple with what’s going on if you don’t clue in that, to the adversaries in the ring, it’s an existential war between rival views about the nature of reality itself. This is a heavyweight philosophical and theological debate the likes of which we haven’t seen since Darwin came along and challenged the Biblical view of God’s Creation.

    But the battle of ideas around gender is a particularly strange sight to behold, because the factions endlessly trade intellectual punches that never manage to hit each others’ targets: it’s like the two sides exist on entirely separate epistemic planes of mental existence, and they merely cohabitate unhappily in the same material world. It brings to mind the Maitlands and the Deetzes in Beetlejuice, feuding families who both reside in the same haunted Connecticut home, while at the same time they’re living in completely different dimensions, making their attempts to directly engage with each other almost impossible.


    https://artymorty.substack.com/p/the-circle-of-horror-must-stop

    I'd suggest it is not those outside the debate who are at the risk of going mad. And whilst agreement may be almost impossible, constructive engagement seems very possible if both sides can stop the attacks, park the 10% that is indeed hard to resolve and instead focus first on the 90% that compromises could be accepted on.
    "Both sides'.

    Which Trans Activist academics, doctors, psychiatrists, social workers or barristers have been driven from their positions by sex realists?

    Which sex realists have lied about the content of the Cass report and spread disinformation?

    While Dr Cass was even handed in her report, subsequent interviews have been very clear on which side the attacks are coming from.
    To an outsider that seems like quite an aggressive response for someone trying to point out that their "side" is not being aggressive. Anyway dipped in enough for me, this debate is a bit too intense to get properly involved in.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Interesting essay:

    There’s a reason the gender debate looks so perplexing from the point of view of many of those not in it. You might go mad trying to grapple with what’s going on if you don’t clue in that, to the adversaries in the ring, it’s an existential war between rival views about the nature of reality itself. This is a heavyweight philosophical and theological debate the likes of which we haven’t seen since Darwin came along and challenged the Biblical view of God’s Creation.

    But the battle of ideas around gender is a particularly strange sight to behold, because the factions endlessly trade intellectual punches that never manage to hit each others’ targets: it’s like the two sides exist on entirely separate epistemic planes of mental existence, and they merely cohabitate unhappily in the same material world. It brings to mind the Maitlands and the Deetzes in Beetlejuice, feuding families who both reside in the same haunted Connecticut home, while at the same time they’re living in completely different dimensions, making their attempts to directly engage with each other almost impossible.


    https://artymorty.substack.com/p/the-circle-of-horror-must-stop

    I'd suggest it is not those outside the debate who are at the risk of going mad. And whilst agreement may be almost impossible, constructive engagement seems very possible if both sides can stop the attacks, park the 10% that is indeed hard to resolve and instead focus first on the 90% that compromises could be accepted on.
    "Both sides'.

    Which Trans Activist academics, doctors, psychiatrists, social workers or barristers have been driven from their positions by sex realists?

    Which sex realists have lied about the content of the Cass report and spread disinformation?

    While Dr Cass was even handed in her report, subsequent interviews have been very clear on which side the attacks are coming from.
    To an outsider that seems like quite an aggressive response for someone trying to point out that their "side" is not being aggressive. Anyway dipped in enough for me, this debate is a bit too intense to get properly involved in.
    Some of the smarter opponents of Cass have been pushing a "both sides have been awful, why can't we just get along" line - in an attempt to back pedal from years of obsequious acquiescence - "if only we had known".

    It was known and people chose not to listen.

    One side in this has routinely resorted to threats & violence - and its not been the middle aged, often left wing, frequently lesbians.

    It's never been "both sides" - in fact one of the sex realist arguments is "let them speak" - quite a contrast to their opponent's "no debate".
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    edited April 22

    ..."Both sides'.

    Which Trans Activist academics, doctors, psychiatrists, social workers or barristers have been driven from their positions by sex realists?...

    Two points
    i) It is possible to say the word "trans" without following it with the word "activist"
    ii) To answer your question, from memory that trans judge resigned and there was a journalist complaining that there were 77 trans GPs.

    There was an article posted here from Spiked. I think it was from Leon. It complained that all the criticism was coming from one side. But this rests on the belief that all the actions from the gender critical side are not attacks, and that all the actions from the gender ideology side are attacks.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068

    Interesting essay:

    There’s a reason the gender debate looks so perplexing from the point of view of many of those not in it. You might go mad trying to grapple with what’s going on if you don’t clue in that, to the adversaries in the ring, it’s an existential war between rival views about the nature of reality itself. This is a heavyweight philosophical and theological debate the likes of which we haven’t seen since Darwin came along and challenged the Biblical view of God’s Creation.

    But the battle of ideas around gender is a particularly strange sight to behold, because the factions endlessly trade intellectual punches that never manage to hit each others’ targets: it’s like the two sides exist on entirely separate epistemic planes of mental existence, and they merely cohabitate unhappily in the same material world. It brings to mind the Maitlands and the Deetzes in Beetlejuice, feuding families who both reside in the same haunted Connecticut home, while at the same time they’re living in completely different dimensions, making their attempts to directly engage with each other almost impossible.


    https://artymorty.substack.com/p/the-circle-of-horror-must-stop

    I agree that it was interesting, although I draw a distinction between surgery on children imposed by parents (bad) and self-elective surgery on adults imposed by themselves (their problem not mine). However he was also right in the sense that the two parties are talking past each other. Or more accurately, shouting. And tweeting. Lots and lots of tweeting... :)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    isam said:

    When mum says you can't stay over at your friend's house because we all have to go and visit gran in hospital.




    https://x.com/stephencvgraham/status/1782024115349565671?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Has anyone been watching Race Around the World? There is a character in that called Owen who is almost always cross, who reminds me in both looks and manner of Owen Jones.
    Despite which, I find him quite likeable. His friend - who seems eminently pleasant - clearly knows him and accepts him and likes him enough to go on this adventure with him anyway. So there must be rather more to him than the editors have yet let us see. As there always is, of course.
This discussion has been closed.