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No we Khan’t? Could the unthinkable happen in London? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,159
edited April 28 in General
imageNo we Khan’t? Could the unthinkable happen in London? – politicalbetting.com

Sadiq Khan leads Susan Hall by 13%.London Mayoral Election VI (6-8 April):Sadiq Khan (Lab) 43%Susan Hall (Cons) 30%Zoë Garbett (Green) 10%Rob Blackie (Lib Dem) 8%Howard Cox (Reform) 7%Other 2%https://t.co/NME7rUhyXG pic.twitter.com/pecj5rELrF

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Comments

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    Only the Greens can stop the Tories in London. Or something.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,272
    edited April 11
    Second, unlike Khan who will be first, (but this is his last stint - Con will win in 2028, IMO)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    "Fewer than 5%"?

    WTAF
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    If Labour voters split the vote by voting for Khan, instead of Garbett, then they risk letting in the Tories in London.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    TOPPING said:

    "Fewer than 5%"?

    WTAF

    Fewer of your cheek there Topping!
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    OJ Simpson.

    Proof there is no such thing as karma (though I did understand his life post 2000s wasn't great, he brought it all on himself).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742
    It's striking that the support for LD+Grn is at 18% in this poll for a FPTP election, whereas it was just 12% in the actual SV election in 2021 (and only 10% in 2016 and 8.7% in 2012).

    There does look to be plenty of scope for squeeze on the left.

    Not that Khan should need it given Labour's national lead (and Westminster lead in London). It's a pretty damning indictment of his personal ratings that it could credibly be in the balance.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952

    The Betfair odds of Hall winning is 28.

    For those who don't understand Betfair's decimal odds and prefer more traditional odds, then this means that if you bet £10 on Hall, then you lose £10.

    LOL.
  • GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    latest IPSOS/Reuters polling for the US election, polling 4-8 April 2024, (number in brackets is for January):

    Biden: 41% (38%)

    Trump: 37% (43%)

    GOP are mad. Literally anyone (ANYONE) could beat Biden, other than the Orange One!
    There's a trope that it takes a second stake to the heart sometimes to defeat evil.

    Buffy dealt with this in Buffy vs Dracula, while any other staked vampire in the series would turn to dust and that would be the end of it, Dracula turned to dust then Buffy waited and he reformed so she staked him again saying "I've seen enough of your movies to know you'd be back".

    We had that trope come to political life in the UK with Corbyn, he lost the 2017 election but acted like he won it (not as badly as Trump acted of course) and it took a second defeat in 2019 to see him lose his until-then tight grip on Labour.

    Hopefully a second stake through Trump this November, a second defeat, would release the GOP from the thrall like state it is in to Count Trumpula.
    Lets hope Biden's victory is actually very comfortable or a landslide (I think it probably will be) to see off the Orange One and all his heirs and descendants once for all.
    I've been part of every pb.com groupthink bubble going (except for the Brexit referendum, when I want spending much time on the site at the time), so I'm finding the current experience of looking into a pb.com groupthink from the outside refreshing and unique.

    Just a reminder, Biden's approval ratings are awful and so not presage re-election for an incumbent. Biden is polling so much further behind than in 2020 that it's plausible Trump will win the popular vote.
    The polls are moving Biden's way, although Trump may still be ahead.
    Also factor in the unpopularity dumping Roe v Wade,
    the Republicans in the House,
    Trump's court cases and the fact that he's losing his mind
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkHShhTSMeA
    Also factor in the almighty dollar.

    Biden has a considerably bigger "war chest" than Trump that will be going on campaigning, advertisements etc

    Trump has a much smaller slush fund that is going on legal expenses etc
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Garbett appears to be putting in a lot of effort. She's turning up for all the hustings and has been seen a lot on the local BBC news.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,272

    OJ Simpson.

    Proof there is no such thing as karma (though I did understand his life post 2000s wasn't great, he brought it all on himself).

    It certainly sounds like he had a "nicer" death than the one he gave to his ex-wife and her friend...

    My main takeaway though, is, live life as best you can and try and do as little harm as possible while you're passing through, as we're all going to face our mortality one day and while I suspect everyone has some regrets and fears on their death bed, some are probably greater than others...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    Sir Michael Hodgkinson seems a wrong 'un.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    latest IPSOS/Reuters polling for the US election, polling 4-8 April 2024, (number in brackets is for January):

    Biden: 41% (38%)

    Trump: 37% (43%)

    GOP are mad. Literally anyone (ANYONE) could beat Biden, other than the Orange One!
    There's a trope that it takes a second stake to the heart sometimes to defeat evil.

    Buffy dealt with this in Buffy vs Dracula, while any other staked vampire in the series would turn to dust and that would be the end of it, Dracula turned to dust then Buffy waited and he reformed so she staked him again saying "I've seen enough of your movies to know you'd be back".

    We had that trope come to political life in the UK with Corbyn, he lost the 2017 election but acted like he won it (not as badly as Trump acted of course) and it took a second defeat in 2019 to see him lose his until-then tight grip on Labour.

    Hopefully a second stake through Trump this November, a second defeat, would release the GOP from the thrall like state it is in to Count Trumpula.
    Lets hope Biden's victory is actually very comfortable or a landslide (I think it probably will be) to see off the Orange One and all his heirs and descendants once for all.
    I've been part of every pb.com groupthink bubble going (except for the Brexit referendum, when I want spending much time on the site at the time), so I'm finding the current experience of looking into a pb.com groupthink from the outside refreshing and unique.

    Just a reminder, Biden's approval ratings are awful and so not presage re-election for an incumbent. Biden is polling so much further behind than in 2020 that it's plausible Trump will win the popular vote.
    The polls are moving Biden's way, although Trump may still be ahead.
    Also factor in the unpopularity dumping Roe v Wade,
    the Republicans in the House,
    Trump's court cases and the fact that he's losing his mind
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkHShhTSMeA
    Also factor in the almighty dollar.

    Biden has a considerably bigger "war chest" than Trump that will be going on campaigning, advertisements etc

    Trump has a much smaller slush fund that is going on legal expenses etc
    My inclination is that in the end it's not likely to be close - and primarily because Biden will be able to blow him out of the water when it comes to advertising.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Any explanation for that 2021 polling error?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    latest IPSOS/Reuters polling for the US election, polling 4-8 April 2024, (number in brackets is for January):

    Biden: 41% (38%)

    Trump: 37% (43%)

    GOP are mad. Literally anyone (ANYONE) could beat Biden, other than the Orange One!
    There's a trope that it takes a second stake to the heart sometimes to defeat evil.

    Buffy dealt with this in Buffy vs Dracula, while any other staked vampire in the series would turn to dust and that would be the end of it, Dracula turned to dust then Buffy waited and he reformed so she staked him again saying "I've seen enough of your movies to know you'd be back".

    We had that trope come to political life in the UK with Corbyn, he lost the 2017 election but acted like he won it (not as badly as Trump acted of course) and it took a second defeat in 2019 to see him lose his until-then tight grip on Labour.

    Hopefully a second stake through Trump this November, a second defeat, would release the GOP from the thrall like state it is in to Count Trumpula.
    Lets hope Biden's victory is actually very comfortable or a landslide (I think it probably will be) to see off the Orange One and all his heirs and descendants once for all.
    I've been part of every pb.com groupthink bubble going (except for the Brexit referendum, when I want spending much time on the site at the time), so I'm finding the current experience of looking into a pb.com groupthink from the outside refreshing and unique.

    Just a reminder, Biden's approval ratings are awful and so not presage re-election for an incumbent. Biden is polling so much further behind than in 2020 that it's plausible Trump will win the popular vote.
    The polls are moving Biden's way, although Trump may still be ahead.
    Also factor in the unpopularity dumping Roe v Wade,
    the Republicans in the House,
    Trump's court cases and the fact that he's losing his mind
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkHShhTSMeA
    Also factor in the almighty dollar.

    Biden has a considerably bigger "war chest" than Trump that will be going on campaigning, advertisements etc

    Trump has a much smaller slush fund that is going on legal expenses etc
    The way the Biden administration has been behaving re Ukraine this month, I have barely more faith in it than I would in a Trump one in its commitment (and commitments) to Europe.

    Time to get serious in developing the structures and capabilities to be able to run defence and security independently of the US.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    TOPPING said:

    "Fewer than 5%"?

    WTAF

    Fewer than five percents, obvs.
  • Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    "Fewer than 5%"?

    WTAF

    Fewer than five percents, obvs.
    TSE is as likely to say fewer than five peasants.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 643
    Amused that in the graphic only 3 of the names listed are actually candidates...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    Cracking bit right now on the post office live stream the counsel for the SPMs laying into Hodgkinson. Rightly so.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    edited April 11
    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    Interesting apostrophe placement.

    Was that a Silence of the Lambs reference ?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,863
    Rishi's put a new (old?) video out.

    Rishi Sunak: Cutting Waiting Lists | Our Plan for the NHS
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmluXX5YNMk
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Could that polling error have been caused by something similar to the "Bradley Effect"?
    https://ballotpedia.org/Bradley_effect

    (Which appears to have almost entirely disappeared in the US, for which I am grateful.)
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    I reckon the 2021 drop from poll prediction to actual first round percentage was in large part due to the poll respondents not realising they had two votes but then on the day, they realised they had a "free shot" for Green or LD. Remenber not all voters read PB and most assume elections are FPTP.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    edited April 11
    London definitely seems like a weak spot for Labour compared to their national polling. This poll, Uxbridge result, Old Bexley. All different circs but the Tories best area come GE night might be areas near the M25.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,863

    Could that polling error have been caused by something similar to the "Bradley Effect"?
    https://ballotpedia.org/Bradley_effect

    (Which appears to have almost entirely disappeared in the US, for which I am grateful.)

    Shaun Bailey is Black so the Bradley Effect would not apply.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    edited April 11

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    MURDERER, armed robber, film star and star Running Back... ;) That better ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    Racists cop tried to frame him, thank God heroic lawyers like Robert Shapiro, F. Lee Bailey, and Johnny Cochrane ensured justice prevailed.

    Ugh, apologies for the horrific tautology of heroic lawyers.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    edited April 11
    Pulpstar said:

    London definitely seems like a weak spot for Labour compared to their national polling. This poll, Uxbridge result, Old Bexley. All different circs but the Tories best area come GE night might be areas near the M25.

    It’s where they are effectively running as the incumbent governing party.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    Republicans remade the judiciary. It’s haunting Donald Trump.
    Trump’s Monday announcement that abortion should be left to the states was supposed to neutralize an issue that has dogged Republican candidates. But by Tuesday it was clear that it was futile to try.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/11/trump-abortion-republicans-judiciary-00151632
    Conservatives spent a generation stacking the bench with anti-abortion judges. Donald Trump is now paying the price.

    The former president is reckoning with high court rulings in Alabama, Florida and, most recently, Arizona, which have kept abortion and reproductive health care in the spotlight when he and much of the GOP would rather be talking about inflation or the border.

    Taken together, they underscore the difficulty Trump and his campaign have in controlling a narrative that at any minute can be redefined by any judge in America...


    Which is as nothing to the difficulty women face in having their rights to medical treatment redefined at any minute by any judge in America.

    As I said on the previous thread, it's not a bad effort as a campaign slogan, but reality has already demonstrated it's bollocks.

    Clinton's "safe; legal; rare" was also bollocks, but two thirds of it was at least true - and it was anodyne rather than malign.
  • Nigelb said:

    Republicans remade the judiciary. It’s haunting Donald Trump.
    Trump’s Monday announcement that abortion should be left to the states was supposed to neutralize an issue that has dogged Republican candidates. But by Tuesday it was clear that it was futile to try.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/11/trump-abortion-republicans-judiciary-00151632
    Conservatives spent a generation stacking the bench with anti-abortion judges. Donald Trump is now paying the price.

    The former president is reckoning with high court rulings in Alabama, Florida and, most recently, Arizona, which have kept abortion and reproductive health care in the spotlight when he and much of the GOP would rather be talking about inflation or the border.

    Taken together, they underscore the difficulty Trump and his campaign have in controlling a narrative that at any minute can be redefined by any judge in America...


    Which is as nothing to the difficulty women face in having their rights to medical treatment redefined at any minute by any judge in America.

    As I said on the previous thread, it's not a bad effort as a campaign slogan, but reality has already demonstrated it's bollocks.

    Clinton's "safe; legal; rare" was also bollocks, but two thirds of it was at least true - and it was anodyne rather than malign.

    Like Saturn, the Revolution eats its children.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,417
    TOPPING said:

    Cracking bit right now on the post office live stream the counsel for the SPMs laying into Hodgkinson. Rightly so.

    Some sensible questions being asked now…….far too late of course.

    It’s amazing that sub-postmasters (and mistresses) were not formally asked how they were getting on with Horizon.
    Of course, their Union was less useful than a chocolate fireguard. Even though, IIRC, they had someone at Board meetings.
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    TOPPING said:

    "Fewer than 5%"?

    WTAF

    Fewer than 5pp.
    Less than 5%.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    Nigelb said:

    Republicans remade the judiciary. It’s haunting Donald Trump.
    Trump’s Monday announcement that abortion should be left to the states was supposed to neutralize an issue that has dogged Republican candidates. But by Tuesday it was clear that it was futile to try.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/11/trump-abortion-republicans-judiciary-00151632
    Conservatives spent a generation stacking the bench with anti-abortion judges. Donald Trump is now paying the price.

    The former president is reckoning with high court rulings in Alabama, Florida and, most recently, Arizona, which have kept abortion and reproductive health care in the spotlight when he and much of the GOP would rather be talking about inflation or the border.

    Taken together, they underscore the difficulty Trump and his campaign have in controlling a narrative that at any minute can be redefined by any judge in America...


    Which is as nothing to the difficulty women face in having their rights to medical treatment redefined at any minute by any judge in America.

    As I said on the previous thread, it's not a bad effort as a campaign slogan, but reality has already demonstrated it's bollocks.

    Clinton's "safe; legal; rare" was also bollocks, but two thirds of it was at least true - and it was anodyne rather than malign.

    As for @algarkirk 's claim that the issue is now 'determined by voters, not judges', it's blatantly obvious that the aim is to take away any say which voters might have, too.

    ..In Arizona, the state’s GOP-controlled legislature is advancing a measure that would put the question to voters whether Supreme Court justices should serve lifetime appointments. And in Oklahoma, Republican legislators want to take the authority to appoint Supreme Court justices from a judicial nominating committee and give it to the governor.

    “It doesn’t seem to be slowing down,” said Douglas Keith, senior counsel in the judiciary program at the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU Law. “If anything, it’s picking up.”..
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952

    TOPPING said:

    Cracking bit right now on the post office live stream the counsel for the SPMs laying into Hodgkinson. Rightly so.

    Some sensible questions being asked now…….far too late of course.

    It’s amazing that sub-postmasters (and mistresses) were not formally asked how they were getting on with Horizon.
    Of course, their Union was less useful than a chocolate fireguard. Even though, IIRC, they had someone at Board meetings.
    The Private Eye piece writing itself.

    I am appalled, amazed and saddened at these events which happened while I was Chairman of the company.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    edited April 11

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    You can in South Korea, and can be sued for it, FWIW.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    Racists cop tried to frame him, thank God heroic lawyers like Robert Shapiro, F. Lee Bailey, and Johnny Cochrane ensured justice prevailed.

    Ugh, apologies for the horrific tautology of heroic lawyers.
    That was an horrific trilogy, Shirley ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174

    Pulpstar said:

    London definitely seems like a weak spot for Labour compared to their national polling. This poll, Uxbridge result, Old Bexley. All different circs but the Tories best area come GE night might be areas near the M25.

    It’s where they are effectively running as the incumbent governing party.
    Other area for hope I think is Scotland. Again, they're not the incumbents (effectively)
  • eristdoof said:

    I reckon the 2021 drop from poll prediction to actual first round percentage was in large part due to the poll respondents not realising they had two votes but then on the day, they realised they had a "free shot" for Green or LD. Remenber not all voters read PB and most assume elections are FPTP.

    But the poll referred to actually overstated the Lib Dem candidate's vote and only slightly underestimated the Green's.

    2021 was a good set of local elections across the board for the blue team, remember. Turnout matters a lot in local elections, perhaps more so in a COVID election where the GOTV operation was harder (although door-knocking was allowed at that point).

    May 2021 was pre-Partygate, in the midst of vaccine optimism, and it's easy to forget that a lot of Tories wanted to reward Johnson for having been seen to have steered us through difficult times.

    As it turns out, that was very much the high-water mark. Chesham & Amersham came out of nowhere the following month, but could be dismissed as a howl from the Remoaners and a testament to the Lib Dem by-election machine (much like Richmond in 2016). The rot only really set in with Paterson and Partygate, and it unraveled remarkably quickly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    edited April 11
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    MURDERER, armed robber, film star and star Running Back... ;) That better ?
    Unconvicted murderer; convicted armed robber.
    Adjudged a killer on the balance of probabilities.

    To be a pedant.

    (Also played for the Niners.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Republicans remade the judiciary. It’s haunting Donald Trump.
    Trump’s Monday announcement that abortion should be left to the states was supposed to neutralize an issue that has dogged Republican candidates. But by Tuesday it was clear that it was futile to try.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/11/trump-abortion-republicans-judiciary-00151632
    Conservatives spent a generation stacking the bench with anti-abortion judges. Donald Trump is now paying the price.

    The former president is reckoning with high court rulings in Alabama, Florida and, most recently, Arizona, which have kept abortion and reproductive health care in the spotlight when he and much of the GOP would rather be talking about inflation or the border.

    Taken together, they underscore the difficulty Trump and his campaign have in controlling a narrative that at any minute can be redefined by any judge in America...


    Which is as nothing to the difficulty women face in having their rights to medical treatment redefined at any minute by any judge in America.

    As I said on the previous thread, it's not a bad effort as a campaign slogan, but reality has already demonstrated it's bollocks.

    Clinton's "safe; legal; rare" was also bollocks, but two thirds of it was at least true - and it was anodyne rather than malign.

    As for @algarkirk 's claim that the issue is now 'determined by voters, not judges', it's blatantly obvious that the aim is to take away any say which voters might have, too.

    ..In Arizona, the state’s GOP-controlled legislature is advancing a measure that would put the question to voters whether Supreme Court justices should serve lifetime appointments. And in Oklahoma, Republican legislators want to take the authority to appoint Supreme Court justices from a judicial nominating committee and give it to the governor.

    “It doesn’t seem to be slowing down,” said Douglas Keith, senior counsel in the judiciary program at the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU Law. “If anything, it’s picking up.”..
    I remember telling my American relatives that this was going to happen, decades back.

    Being (mostly) lawyers by trade, they thought that the theory of progressive re-interpretation of the Constitution was awesome.

    I asked "who defines progressive?". Apparently, it would be down to.... lawyers.

    So, the nutters have realised that all you need is the "right kind of lawyers". Then the law says whatever you want.

    "Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest."

    And the cherry on top of this shitcake?

    The nutters in the UK are starting to talk about judicial appointments. You may remember we were discussing the French chucking a psycho-god-botherer out - 38 years and he's in Morocco - in a blink of the eye? Yup, they've noticed.

    It's on Twatter and elsewhere - "what we need is the right kind of judges".




  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    edited April 11
    I would vote for the following to be mayor of London:

    David Lammy
    John Bercow
    Shaun Bailey
    Boris Johnson

    I would say Jeremy Corbyn because I have no doubt he is dedicated to London (as was Our Ken) but he would make it compulsory to march on Whitehall every Thursday afternoon to protest at Israel's actions in the West Bank.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,126
    Odds look about right. Not sure there's much value there. In fact, if I didn't hate betting on massive odds on (because it ties up capital), I'd probably bet on Kahn for a meagre 3% return. I just can't see Ms Hall getting the necessary 36-7% in London that she'd require (on a very good day) to win.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    Not sure why you scored out murderer.

    The Storyville documentary series, OJ Simpson made in America, which is still available on the iplayer was just a superb telling of that story and really brought out both the racial tensions and the failure of OJ to break free of them that surrounded it.

    It also contained several images of him playing as a running back which were mesmeric. It honestly looked as if everyone else was in slow motion. It gave me some comprehension how the jury reached the decision that they did for the first time. And it was not because of the evidence or the mistake with the glove or any incompetence on the part of the defence. They simply stuck it to the man. Which was ironic, given that OJ tried to make himself white every way he could.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Republicans remade the judiciary. It’s haunting Donald Trump.
    Trump’s Monday announcement that abortion should be left to the states was supposed to neutralize an issue that has dogged Republican candidates. But by Tuesday it was clear that it was futile to try.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/11/trump-abortion-republicans-judiciary-00151632
    Conservatives spent a generation stacking the bench with anti-abortion judges. Donald Trump is now paying the price.

    The former president is reckoning with high court rulings in Alabama, Florida and, most recently, Arizona, which have kept abortion and reproductive health care in the spotlight when he and much of the GOP would rather be talking about inflation or the border.

    Taken together, they underscore the difficulty Trump and his campaign have in controlling a narrative that at any minute can be redefined by any judge in America...


    Which is as nothing to the difficulty women face in having their rights to medical treatment redefined at any minute by any judge in America.

    As I said on the previous thread, it's not a bad effort as a campaign slogan, but reality has already demonstrated it's bollocks.

    Clinton's "safe; legal; rare" was also bollocks, but two thirds of it was at least true - and it was anodyne rather than malign.

    As for @algarkirk 's claim that the issue is now 'determined by voters, not judges', it's blatantly obvious that the aim is to take away any say which voters might have, too.

    ..In Arizona, the state’s GOP-controlled legislature is advancing a measure that would put the question to voters whether Supreme Court justices should serve lifetime appointments. And in Oklahoma, Republican legislators want to take the authority to appoint Supreme Court justices from a judicial nominating committee and give it to the governor.

    “It doesn’t seem to be slowing down,” said Douglas Keith, senior counsel in the judiciary program at the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU Law. “If anything, it’s picking up.”..
    I remember telling my American relatives that this was going to happen, decades back.

    Being (mostly) lawyers by trade, they thought that the theory of progressive re-interpretation of the Constitution was awesome.

    I asked "who defines progressive?". Apparently, it would be down to.... lawyers.

    So, the nutters have realised that all you need is the "right kind of lawyers". Then the law says whatever you want.

    "Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest."

    And the cherry on top of this shitcake?

    The nutters in the UK are starting to talk about judicial appointments. You may remember we were discussing the French chucking a psycho-god-botherer out - 38 years and he's in Morocco - in a blink of the eye? Yup, they've noticed.

    It's on Twatter and elsewhere - "what we need is the right kind of judges".




    Im afraid the UK Left scour the US for every shit idea going. Then they say "ooh lets give that a go"
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742
    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    MURDERER, armed robber, film star and star Running Back... ;) That better ?
    Unconvicted murderer; convicted armed robber.
    Adjudged a killer on the balance of probabilities.

    To be a pedant.

    (Also played for the Niners.)
    Now he's dead, we're all free to describe him as we see fir. He can't do anything about it. The legal position is, of course, as you describe it. But then the legal position is the Savile was an unconvicted sex abuser; that didn't mean he didn't do it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    edited April 11

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Republicans remade the judiciary. It’s haunting Donald Trump.
    Trump’s Monday announcement that abortion should be left to the states was supposed to neutralize an issue that has dogged Republican candidates. But by Tuesday it was clear that it was futile to try.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/11/trump-abortion-republicans-judiciary-00151632
    Conservatives spent a generation stacking the bench with anti-abortion judges. Donald Trump is now paying the price.

    The former president is reckoning with high court rulings in Alabama, Florida and, most recently, Arizona, which have kept abortion and reproductive health care in the spotlight when he and much of the GOP would rather be talking about inflation or the border.

    Taken together, they underscore the difficulty Trump and his campaign have in controlling a narrative that at any minute can be redefined by any judge in America...


    Which is as nothing to the difficulty women face in having their rights to medical treatment redefined at any minute by any judge in America.

    As I said on the previous thread, it's not a bad effort as a campaign slogan, but reality has already demonstrated it's bollocks.

    Clinton's "safe; legal; rare" was also bollocks, but two thirds of it was at least true - and it was anodyne rather than malign.

    As for @algarkirk 's claim that the issue is now 'determined by voters, not judges', it's blatantly obvious that the aim is to take away any say which voters might have, too.

    ..In Arizona, the state’s GOP-controlled legislature is advancing a measure that would put the question to voters whether Supreme Court justices should serve lifetime appointments. And in Oklahoma, Republican legislators want to take the authority to appoint Supreme Court justices from a judicial nominating committee and give it to the governor.

    “It doesn’t seem to be slowing down,” said Douglas Keith, senior counsel in the judiciary program at the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU Law. “If anything, it’s picking up.”..
    I remember telling my American relatives that this was going to happen, decades back.

    Being (mostly) lawyers by trade, they thought that the theory of progressive re-interpretation of the Constitution was awesome.

    I asked "who defines progressive?". Apparently, it would be down to.... lawyers.

    So, the nutters have realised that all you need is the "right kind of lawyers". Then the law says whatever you want.

    "Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest."

    And the cherry on top of this shitcake?

    The nutters in the UK are starting to talk about judicial appointments. You may remember we were discussing the French chucking a psycho-god-botherer out - 38 years and he's in Morocco - in a blink of the eye? Yup, they've noticed.

    It's on Twatter and elsewhere - "what we need is the right kind of judges".

    Im afraid the UK Left scour the US for every shit idea going. Then they say "ooh lets give that a go"
    Just the left ?

    Conservative politicians have considerably closer ties to the US political scene.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Republicans remade the judiciary. It’s haunting Donald Trump.
    Trump’s Monday announcement that abortion should be left to the states was supposed to neutralize an issue that has dogged Republican candidates. But by Tuesday it was clear that it was futile to try.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/11/trump-abortion-republicans-judiciary-00151632
    Conservatives spent a generation stacking the bench with anti-abortion judges. Donald Trump is now paying the price.

    The former president is reckoning with high court rulings in Alabama, Florida and, most recently, Arizona, which have kept abortion and reproductive health care in the spotlight when he and much of the GOP would rather be talking about inflation or the border.

    Taken together, they underscore the difficulty Trump and his campaign have in controlling a narrative that at any minute can be redefined by any judge in America...


    Which is as nothing to the difficulty women face in having their rights to medical treatment redefined at any minute by any judge in America.

    As I said on the previous thread, it's not a bad effort as a campaign slogan, but reality has already demonstrated it's bollocks.

    Clinton's "safe; legal; rare" was also bollocks, but two thirds of it was at least true - and it was anodyne rather than malign.

    As for @algarkirk 's claim that the issue is now 'determined by voters, not judges', it's blatantly obvious that the aim is to take away any say which voters might have, too.

    ..In Arizona, the state’s GOP-controlled legislature is advancing a measure that would put the question to voters whether Supreme Court justices should serve lifetime appointments. And in Oklahoma, Republican legislators want to take the authority to appoint Supreme Court justices from a judicial nominating committee and give it to the governor.

    “It doesn’t seem to be slowing down,” said Douglas Keith, senior counsel in the judiciary program at the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU Law. “If anything, it’s picking up.”..
    I remember telling my American relatives that this was going to happen, decades back.

    Being (mostly) lawyers by trade, they thought that the theory of progressive re-interpretation of the Constitution was awesome.

    I asked "who defines progressive?". Apparently, it would be down to.... lawyers.

    So, the nutters have realised that all you need is the "right kind of lawyers". Then the law says whatever you want.

    "Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest."

    And the cherry on top of this shitcake?

    The nutters in the UK are starting to talk about judicial appointments. You may remember we were discussing the French chucking a psycho-god-botherer out - 38 years and he's in Morocco - in a blink of the eye? Yup, they've noticed.

    It's on Twatter and elsewhere - "what we need is the right kind of judges".




    Im afraid the UK Left scour the US for every shit idea going. Then they say "ooh lets give that a go"
    In this case it is the UK Right.

    If you have the judges, then who needs to bother with the law?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549
    Incidentally, following on from the power generation conversation on the previous thread:

    It's interesting how power generation has gone. Originally there were lots of small power plants around the country, often supplying their own grid. Derby, for instance, had one (near the Silk MIll) that provided power to the town/city from the 1890s to the 1960s, providing a maximum of 65MW.

    But small thermal power plants are rather inefficient, and these inner-city power stations polluted the city. When the National Grid was started, power stations could be placed further out and made larger - hence more efficient. So we started getting the mega power stations such as those on the Trent Valley (Willington A&B stations were a total of 800MW alone; Ratcliffe 2GW). The scale of these power stations was incomparably greater.

    But that scale<->efficiency argument is generally a factor for thermal plants. For solar or wind, it is less so; and these are much easier to distribute more widely - so we are going back more to the way things were, albeit with them providing a single grid, rather than localised grids.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    The late Norm Macdonald was fired from SNL for this ten minute piece on OJ.
    https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1778435191536525451
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,421
    edited April 11

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    Racists cop tried to frame him, thank God heroic lawyers like Robert Shapiro, F. Lee Bailey, and Johnny Cochrane ensured justice prevailed.

    Ugh, apologies for the horrific tautology of heroic lawyers.

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    MURDERER, armed robber, film star and star Running Back... ;) That better ?
    Unconvicted murderer; convicted armed robber.
    Adjudged a killer on the balance of probabilities.

    To be a pedant.

    (Also played for the Niners.)
    Now he's dead, we're all free to describe him as we see fir. He can't do anything about it. The legal position is, of course, as you describe it. But then the legal position is the Savile was an unconvicted sex abuser; that didn't mean he didn't do it.
    Can we blame OJ for the Kardashians, or is that a little too harsh?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620

    Any explanation for that 2021 polling error?

    In their defence they got the lead spot on for the second round.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    Not sure why you scored out murderer.

    The Storyville documentary series, OJ Simpson made in America, which is still available on the iplayer was just a superb telling of that story and really brought out both the racial tensions and the failure of OJ to break free of them that surrounded it.

    It also contained several images of him playing as a running back which were mesmeric. It honestly looked as if everyone else was in slow motion. It gave me some comprehension how the jury reached the decision that they did for the first time. And it was not because of the evidence or the mistake with the glove or any incompetence on the part of the defence. They simply stuck it to the man. Which was ironic, given that OJ tried to make himself white every way he could.

    The reputation of the LAPD probably didn't help, either.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Republicans remade the judiciary. It’s haunting Donald Trump.
    Trump’s Monday announcement that abortion should be left to the states was supposed to neutralize an issue that has dogged Republican candidates. But by Tuesday it was clear that it was futile to try.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/11/trump-abortion-republicans-judiciary-00151632
    Conservatives spent a generation stacking the bench with anti-abortion judges. Donald Trump is now paying the price.

    The former president is reckoning with high court rulings in Alabama, Florida and, most recently, Arizona, which have kept abortion and reproductive health care in the spotlight when he and much of the GOP would rather be talking about inflation or the border.

    Taken together, they underscore the difficulty Trump and his campaign have in controlling a narrative that at any minute can be redefined by any judge in America...


    Which is as nothing to the difficulty women face in having their rights to medical treatment redefined at any minute by any judge in America.

    As I said on the previous thread, it's not a bad effort as a campaign slogan, but reality has already demonstrated it's bollocks.

    Clinton's "safe; legal; rare" was also bollocks, but two thirds of it was at least true - and it was anodyne rather than malign.

    As for @algarkirk 's claim that the issue is now 'determined by voters, not judges', it's blatantly obvious that the aim is to take away any say which voters might have, too.

    ..In Arizona, the state’s GOP-controlled legislature is advancing a measure that would put the question to voters whether Supreme Court justices should serve lifetime appointments. And in Oklahoma, Republican legislators want to take the authority to appoint Supreme Court justices from a judicial nominating committee and give it to the governor.

    “It doesn’t seem to be slowing down,” said Douglas Keith, senior counsel in the judiciary program at the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU Law. “If anything, it’s picking up.”..
    I remember telling my American relatives that this was going to happen, decades back.

    Being (mostly) lawyers by trade, they thought that the theory of progressive re-interpretation of the Constitution was awesome.

    I asked "who defines progressive?". Apparently, it would be down to.... lawyers.

    So, the nutters have realised that all you need is the "right kind of lawyers". Then the law says whatever you want.

    "Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest."

    And the cherry on top of this shitcake?

    The nutters in the UK are starting to talk about judicial appointments. You may remember we were discussing the French chucking a psycho-god-botherer out - 38 years and he's in Morocco - in a blink of the eye? Yup, they've noticed.

    It's on Twatter and elsewhere - "what we need is the right kind of judges".

    Im afraid the UK Left scour the US for every shit idea going. Then they say "ooh lets give that a go"
    Just the left ?

    Conservative politicians have considerably closer ties to the US political scene.
    It comes and goes. Our politicians should be looking for what matches our own conditions.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Nigelb said:

    The late Norm Macdonald was fired from SNL for this ten minute piece on OJ.
    https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1778435191536525451

    Norm Macdonald is a comedy legend, and the OJ stuff that got him fired from SNL only made him more of a comedy legend.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    You can in South Korea, and can be sued for it, FWIW.
    Can't you be sued even if what you say is true, but criticises their character or something?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited April 11

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Republicans remade the judiciary. It’s haunting Donald Trump.
    Trump’s Monday announcement that abortion should be left to the states was supposed to neutralize an issue that has dogged Republican candidates. But by Tuesday it was clear that it was futile to try.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/11/trump-abortion-republicans-judiciary-00151632
    Conservatives spent a generation stacking the bench with anti-abortion judges. Donald Trump is now paying the price.

    The former president is reckoning with high court rulings in Alabama, Florida and, most recently, Arizona, which have kept abortion and reproductive health care in the spotlight when he and much of the GOP would rather be talking about inflation or the border.

    Taken together, they underscore the difficulty Trump and his campaign have in controlling a narrative that at any minute can be redefined by any judge in America...


    Which is as nothing to the difficulty women face in having their rights to medical treatment redefined at any minute by any judge in America.

    As I said on the previous thread, it's not a bad effort as a campaign slogan, but reality has already demonstrated it's bollocks.

    Clinton's "safe; legal; rare" was also bollocks, but two thirds of it was at least true - and it was anodyne rather than malign.

    As for @algarkirk 's claim that the issue is now 'determined by voters, not judges', it's blatantly obvious that the aim is to take away any say which voters might have, too.

    ..In Arizona, the state’s GOP-controlled legislature is advancing a measure that would put the question to voters whether Supreme Court justices should serve lifetime appointments. And in Oklahoma, Republican legislators want to take the authority to appoint Supreme Court justices from a judicial nominating committee and give it to the governor.

    “It doesn’t seem to be slowing down,” said Douglas Keith, senior counsel in the judiciary program at the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU Law. “If anything, it’s picking up.”..
    I remember telling my American relatives that this was going to happen, decades back.

    Being (mostly) lawyers by trade, they thought that the theory of progressive re-interpretation of the Constitution was awesome.

    I asked "who defines progressive?". Apparently, it would be down to.... lawyers.

    So, the nutters have realised that all you need is the "right kind of lawyers". Then the law says whatever you want.

    "Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest."

    And the cherry on top of this shitcake?

    The nutters in the UK are starting to talk about judicial appointments. You may remember we were discussing the French chucking a psycho-god-botherer out - 38 years and he's in Morocco - in a blink of the eye? Yup, they've noticed.

    It's on Twatter and elsewhere - "what we need is the right kind of judges".




    Im afraid the UK Left scour the US for every shit idea going. Then they say "ooh lets give that a go"
    Yeah like left wing politicians are hovering around Trump like flies on sh1te. Oh wait that's Tory Grandees and front benchers.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    CatMan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    You can in South Korea, and can be sued for it, FWIW.
    Can't you be sued even if what you say is true, but criticises their character or something?
    Yes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    The late Norm Macdonald was fired from SNL for this ten minute piece on OJ.
    https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1778435191536525451

    Norm Macdonald is a comedy legend, and the OJ stuff that got him fired from SNL only made him more of a comedy legend.
    It's a fitting tribute to both of them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    Racists cop tried to frame him, thank God heroic lawyers like Robert Shapiro, F. Lee Bailey, and Johnny Cochrane ensured justice prevailed.

    Ugh, apologies for the horrific tautology of heroic lawyers.

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    MURDERER, armed robber, film star and star Running Back... ;) That better ?
    Unconvicted murderer; convicted armed robber.
    Adjudged a killer on the balance of probabilities.

    To be a pedant.

    (Also played for the Niners.)
    Now he's dead, we're all free to describe him as we see fir. He can't do anything about it. The legal position is, of course, as you describe it. But then the legal position is the Savile was an unconvicted sex abuser; that didn't mean he didn't do it.
    Can we blame OJ for the Kardashians, or is that a little too harsh?
    Yes, it can be entirely blamed for the hideous outbreak of Nazi Space Lizards

    Cardasians



    Kardashians


  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Republicans remade the judiciary. It’s haunting Donald Trump.
    Trump’s Monday announcement that abortion should be left to the states was supposed to neutralize an issue that has dogged Republican candidates. But by Tuesday it was clear that it was futile to try.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/11/trump-abortion-republicans-judiciary-00151632
    Conservatives spent a generation stacking the bench with anti-abortion judges. Donald Trump is now paying the price.

    The former president is reckoning with high court rulings in Alabama, Florida and, most recently, Arizona, which have kept abortion and reproductive health care in the spotlight when he and much of the GOP would rather be talking about inflation or the border.

    Taken together, they underscore the difficulty Trump and his campaign have in controlling a narrative that at any minute can be redefined by any judge in America...


    Which is as nothing to the difficulty women face in having their rights to medical treatment redefined at any minute by any judge in America.

    As I said on the previous thread, it's not a bad effort as a campaign slogan, but reality has already demonstrated it's bollocks.

    Clinton's "safe; legal; rare" was also bollocks, but two thirds of it was at least true - and it was anodyne rather than malign.

    As for @algarkirk 's claim that the issue is now 'determined by voters, not judges', it's blatantly obvious that the aim is to take away any say which voters might have, too.

    ..In Arizona, the state’s GOP-controlled legislature is advancing a measure that would put the question to voters whether Supreme Court justices should serve lifetime appointments. And in Oklahoma, Republican legislators want to take the authority to appoint Supreme Court justices from a judicial nominating committee and give it to the governor.

    “It doesn’t seem to be slowing down,” said Douglas Keith, senior counsel in the judiciary program at the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU Law. “If anything, it’s picking up.”..
    I remember telling my American relatives that this was going to happen, decades back.

    Being (mostly) lawyers by trade, they thought that the theory of progressive re-interpretation of the Constitution was awesome.

    I asked "who defines progressive?". Apparently, it would be down to.... lawyers.

    So, the nutters have realised that all you need is the "right kind of lawyers". Then the law says whatever you want.

    "Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest."

    And the cherry on top of this shitcake?

    The nutters in the UK are starting to talk about judicial appointments. You may remember we were discussing the French chucking a psycho-god-botherer out - 38 years and he's in Morocco - in a blink of the eye? Yup, they've noticed.

    It's on Twatter and elsewhere - "what we need is the right kind of judges".




    Im afraid the UK Left scour the US for every shit idea going. Then they say "ooh lets give that a go"
    Yeah like left wing politicians are hovering around Trump like flies on sh1te. Oh wait that's Tory Grandees and front benchers.
    I give you an open goal and thats the best you can do ? Come on man get your act together.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Republicans remade the judiciary. It’s haunting Donald Trump.
    Trump’s Monday announcement that abortion should be left to the states was supposed to neutralize an issue that has dogged Republican candidates. But by Tuesday it was clear that it was futile to try.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/11/trump-abortion-republicans-judiciary-00151632
    Conservatives spent a generation stacking the bench with anti-abortion judges. Donald Trump is now paying the price.

    The former president is reckoning with high court rulings in Alabama, Florida and, most recently, Arizona, which have kept abortion and reproductive health care in the spotlight when he and much of the GOP would rather be talking about inflation or the border.

    Taken together, they underscore the difficulty Trump and his campaign have in controlling a narrative that at any minute can be redefined by any judge in America...


    Which is as nothing to the difficulty women face in having their rights to medical treatment redefined at any minute by any judge in America.

    As I said on the previous thread, it's not a bad effort as a campaign slogan, but reality has already demonstrated it's bollocks.

    Clinton's "safe; legal; rare" was also bollocks, but two thirds of it was at least true - and it was anodyne rather than malign.

    As for @algarkirk 's claim that the issue is now 'determined by voters, not judges', it's blatantly obvious that the aim is to take away any say which voters might have, too.

    ..In Arizona, the state’s GOP-controlled legislature is advancing a measure that would put the question to voters whether Supreme Court justices should serve lifetime appointments. And in Oklahoma, Republican legislators want to take the authority to appoint Supreme Court justices from a judicial nominating committee and give it to the governor.

    “It doesn’t seem to be slowing down,” said Douglas Keith, senior counsel in the judiciary program at the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU Law. “If anything, it’s picking up.”..
    I remember telling my American relatives that this was going to happen, decades back.

    Being (mostly) lawyers by trade, they thought that the theory of progressive re-interpretation of the Constitution was awesome.

    I asked "who defines progressive?". Apparently, it would be down to.... lawyers.

    So, the nutters have realised that all you need is the "right kind of lawyers". Then the law says whatever you want.

    "Keep the coinage and the courts. Let the rabble have the rest."

    And the cherry on top of this shitcake?

    The nutters in the UK are starting to talk about judicial appointments. You may remember we were discussing the French chucking a psycho-god-botherer out - 38 years and he's in Morocco - in a blink of the eye? Yup, they've noticed.

    It's on Twatter and elsewhere - "what we need is the right kind of judges".




    Im afraid the UK Left scour the US for every shit idea going. Then they say "ooh lets give that a go"
    Yeah like left wing politicians are hovering around Trump like flies on sh1te. Oh wait that's Tory Grandees and front benchers.
    There is a chunk of the “progressive” types who have been trying, unsuccessfully, to get us into the route to “Supreme Court is Supreme Political Body”.

    Think lawyers, baseball bats, foxes.

    Oh and others

    Fortunately, the Supreme Court has resolutely held to the line that the legislature legislates, the executive executes and the judiciary judges. If you want a law, go ask parliament.
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    edited April 11
    For those who haven't seen it, this is the cover of a real book by OJ Simpson and ghostwriter Pablo Fenjves:

    image

    The lettering of "I Did It" with the tiny "If" is a great piece of design.
    "Crime scene - do not cross" is corny.
    Not sure what drug (or legal advice) they must have been taking to leave the author's name off the cover, but it must have made sense to them at the time.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    Racists cop tried to frame him, thank God heroic lawyers like Robert Shapiro, F. Lee Bailey, and Johnny Cochrane ensured justice prevailed.

    Ugh, apologies for the horrific tautology of heroic lawyers.

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    MURDERER, armed robber, film star and star Running Back... ;) That better ?
    Unconvicted murderer; convicted armed robber.
    Adjudged a killer on the balance of probabilities.

    To be a pedant.

    (Also played for the Niners.)
    Now he's dead, we're all free to describe him as we see fir. He can't do anything about it. The legal position is, of course, as you describe it. But then the legal position is the Savile was an unconvicted sex abuser; that didn't mean he didn't do it.
    Can we blame OJ for the Kardashians, or is that a little too harsh?
    Yes, it can be entirely blamed for the hideous outbreak of Nazi Space Lizards

    Cardasians



    Kardashians


    Collagens, surely?
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    A 13% lead for Khan with R&W is still a lot better than the previous two polls published by the same company - showing a 1% Khan lead in Sept 2023 and an 8% lead in June 2023. The national GE polling is only marginally better now for Labour compared to then.

  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    edited April 11
    Donkeys said:

    For those who haven't seen it, this is the cover of a real book by OJ Simpson and ghostwriter Pablo Fenjves:

    image

    The lettering of "I Did It" with the tiny "If" is a great piece of design.
    "Crime scene - do not cross" is corny.
    Not sure what drug (or legal advice) they must have been taking to leave the author's name off the cover, but it must have made sense to them at the time.

    Isn't that the version the Goldmans (the family of Nicole Brown Simpson's partner, Ron Goldman) released when they won the rights from Simpson as part of his bankruptcy following them winning civil damages in relation to his murder?

    I believe there was some dispute between OJ Simpson and the ghost writer about how far the words were Simpson's own - essentially, he distanced himself from some more "confessional" aspects and said they were spiced up. It was possibly a bit over-cautious by then not to identify Simpson as author, but I can kind of see it. Although, and perhaps more importantly, they may well have wanted their own son's name on the cover and NOT that of his killer - even if that was likely to reduce sales a bit.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    The Betfair odds of Hall winning is 28.

    For those who don't understand Betfair's decimal odds and prefer more traditional odds, then this means that if you bet £10 on Hall, then you lose £10.

    :D Chapeau
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    On topic.

    It is really remiss that someone hasn't posted this


  • This is exactly the wake up call Labour needs. As a LD member and voter if Hall wins in London it might actually force Labour to support electoral reform. It’s a price worth paying! It will
    Also ensure Rishi is safe until the GE with totally false hope.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620

    On topic.

    It is really remiss that someone hasn't posted this


    My Star Trek reference was far too subtle for most popl.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    OJ. The trial I always think of when I hear people getting too misty eyed about the jury system. I followed every twist and turn of it and the utterly risible verdict made me feel sick.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Republicans remade the judiciary. It’s haunting Donald Trump.
    Trump’s Monday announcement that abortion should be left to the states was supposed to neutralize an issue that has dogged Republican candidates. But by Tuesday it was clear that it was futile to try.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/11/trump-abortion-republicans-judiciary-00151632
    Conservatives spent a generation stacking the bench with anti-abortion judges. Donald Trump is now paying the price.

    The former president is reckoning with high court rulings in Alabama, Florida and, most recently, Arizona, which have kept abortion and reproductive health care in the spotlight when he and much of the GOP would rather be talking about inflation or the border.

    Taken together, they underscore the difficulty Trump and his campaign have in controlling a narrative that at any minute can be redefined by any judge in America...


    Which is as nothing to the difficulty women face in having their rights to medical treatment redefined at any minute by any judge in America.

    As I said on the previous thread, it's not a bad effort as a campaign slogan, but reality has already demonstrated it's bollocks.

    Clinton's "safe; legal; rare" was also bollocks, but two thirds of it was at least true - and it was anodyne rather than malign.

    As for @algarkirk 's claim that the issue is now 'determined by voters, not judges', it's blatantly obvious that the aim is to take away any say which voters might have, too.

    ..In Arizona, the state’s GOP-controlled legislature is advancing a measure that would put the question to voters whether Supreme Court justices should serve lifetime appointments. And in Oklahoma, Republican legislators want to take the authority to appoint Supreme Court justices from a judicial nominating committee and give it to the governor.

    “It doesn’t seem to be slowing down,” said Douglas Keith, senior counsel in the judiciary program at the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU Law. “If anything, it’s picking up.”..
    Noted. The SCOTUS has decided that abortion is not an issue on which the constitution/judges have some sort of last word. Just like the UK. Legislators decide, and voters decide who they are. Just like the UK.

    Trump has already moderated his stance in the light of this. Let's hope it doesn't help his cause.

    Who appoints judges and for how long is an important, difficult and different question. Personally I intensely dislike 'political' engagement with judicial appointment, but that of course leaves open the question of where the power to appoint should lie instead.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    Post Office inquiry: former boss celebrated jailing of pregnant sub-postmaster

    David Smith, who was chief executive in 2010, sent an email celebrating the conviction of Seema Misra, a sub-postmaster wrongfully jailed as part of the Horizon scandal


    A former executive at the Post Office has apologised for celebrating a pregnant sub-postmaster being sentenced to 15 months in jail for theft.

    David Smith, who was managing director of the company between April and December 2010, apologised to Seema Misra and her family after he hailed her conviction in November 2010 as “brilliant news” in an email to colleagues.

    Misra, from Surrey, was jailed after being wrongly convicted for allegedly stealing almost £75,000. At the time she was eight months’ pregnant, and already had a 10-year-old son. Misra’s conviction was eventually quashed in April 2021.


    In a written statement to the inquiry published on Thursday, Smith said that Misra seeing his email would have caused “substantial distress” and he apologised.

    “I would absolutely never think that it was ‘brilliant news’ for a pregnant woman to go to prison and I am hugely apologetic that my email can be read as such.

    “Regardless of the result, I would have thanked the team for their work on the case.”

    Asked about the case during evidence at the inquiry, Smith said at the time that he and other Post Office executives saw Misra’s case as a “test of the Horizon system” with conviction meaning it was robust.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/post-office-inquiry-today-david-smith-9dl2gvgz0
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,417
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Republicans remade the judiciary. It’s haunting Donald Trump.
    Trump’s Monday announcement that abortion should be left to the states was supposed to neutralize an issue that has dogged Republican candidates. But by Tuesday it was clear that it was futile to try.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/11/trump-abortion-republicans-judiciary-00151632
    Conservatives spent a generation stacking the bench with anti-abortion judges. Donald Trump is now paying the price.

    The former president is reckoning with high court rulings in Alabama, Florida and, most recently, Arizona, which have kept abortion and reproductive health care in the spotlight when he and much of the GOP would rather be talking about inflation or the border.

    Taken together, they underscore the difficulty Trump and his campaign have in controlling a narrative that at any minute can be redefined by any judge in America...


    Which is as nothing to the difficulty women face in having their rights to medical treatment redefined at any minute by any judge in America.

    As I said on the previous thread, it's not a bad effort as a campaign slogan, but reality has already demonstrated it's bollocks.

    Clinton's "safe; legal; rare" was also bollocks, but two thirds of it was at least true - and it was anodyne rather than malign.

    As for @algarkirk 's claim that the issue is now 'determined by voters, not judges', it's blatantly obvious that the aim is to take away any say which voters might have, too.

    ..In Arizona, the state’s GOP-controlled legislature is advancing a measure that would put the question to voters whether Supreme Court justices should serve lifetime appointments. And in Oklahoma, Republican legislators want to take the authority to appoint Supreme Court justices from a judicial nominating committee and give it to the governor.

    “It doesn’t seem to be slowing down,” said Douglas Keith, senior counsel in the judiciary program at the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU Law. “If anything, it’s picking up.”..
    Noted. The SCOTUS has decided that abortion is not an issue on which the constitution/judges have some sort of last word. Just like the UK. Legislators decide, and voters decide who they are. Just like the UK.

    Trump has already moderated his stance in the light of this. Let's hope it doesn't help his cause.

    Who appoints judges and for how long is an important, difficult and different question. Personally I intensely dislike 'political' engagement with judicial appointment, but that of course leaves open the question of where the power to appoint should lie instead.
    This country has had plenty of ‘establishment minded’ judges. From Judge Jefferys onwards, and backwards!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,417

    Post Office inquiry: former boss celebrated jailing of pregnant sub-postmaster

    David Smith, who was chief executive in 2010, sent an email celebrating the conviction of Seema Misra, a sub-postmaster wrongfully jailed as part of the Horizon scandal


    A former executive at the Post Office has apologised for celebrating a pregnant sub-postmaster being sentenced to 15 months in jail for theft.

    David Smith, who was managing director of the company between April and December 2010, apologised to Seema Misra and her family after he hailed her conviction in November 2010 as “brilliant news” in an email to colleagues.

    Misra, from Surrey, was jailed after being wrongly convicted for allegedly stealing almost £75,000. At the time she was eight months’ pregnant, and already had a 10-year-old son. Misra’s conviction was eventually quashed in April 2021.


    In a written statement to the inquiry published on Thursday, Smith said that Misra seeing his email would have caused “substantial distress” and he apologised.

    “I would absolutely never think that it was ‘brilliant news’ for a pregnant woman to go to prison and I am hugely apologetic that my email can be read as such.

    “Regardless of the result, I would have thanked the team for their work on the case.”

    Asked about the case during evidence at the inquiry, Smith said at the time that he and other Post Office executives saw Misra’s case as a “test of the Horizon system” with conviction meaning it was robust.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/post-office-inquiry-today-david-smith-9dl2gvgz0

    Mrs Misra’s told him what to do with his ‘apology’!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    God I wish I were French, the one thing that stopped me being recruited by MI6 during university because it was inevitable i would fall for honey traps.

    French spies claim immunity to honeytraps as their wives already know they have affairs

    Threatening to expose a steamy affair is a well-known tactic in the espionage playbook, but philandering Frenchmen say they’re immune


    A French spy’s love for a glamorous Syrian woman he meets while working undercover in Damascus leads to betrayal, death and disaster in The Bureau, an internationally acclaimed television series.

    In reality, however, French secret agents insist that while they may indulge in liaisons in foreign lands, there is no danger of them being embarrassed by romantic entanglements. They maintain that they are not susceptible to blackmail or honeytraps because their wives tolerate or turn a blind eye to their affairs.

    The claim, which will reinforce stereotypes about French infidelity, was made in a behind-the-scenes documentary aired on France 2, a public-service broadcaster, this week. It offers an unprecedented view of the work of the country’s intelligence agents.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/honeytraps-dont-work-on-us-say-frances-philandering-spies-0nh553z3q
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212

    On topic.

    It is really remiss that someone hasn't posted this


    My Star Trek reference was far too subtle for most popl.
    Subtly and a baseball bat with rusty nails in it will always get you further than just subtly.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    I do not get involved in the gender debate usually but the Cass report seems to have emboldened J K Rowling, Julie Bindel, Judy Murray and others and caused real issues for labour with Wes Steeting making a fulsome apology for his previous comments and then coming under attack from some of his colleagues

    Furthermore if this report from Guido is true then Sky seem to have real internal problems with this subject

    https://order-order.com/2024/04/11/sky-trans-activist-staff-demand-sky-news-editorial-veto/
  • Twickbait_55Twickbait_55 Posts: 127
    I can't see S. Khan having a huge lead against Hall, but having said that with such a lamentable, and seemingly invisible candidate she will depress the Tories vote somewhat. She's a very bad candidate. Plus, with the Tories being so very unpopular nationally this will lower her vote a little. I'd say a 10% Khan lead roughly.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    O/T Gordon Brown sold 56% of the UK’s gold reserves at an average price of $275 per oz. He raised $3.5 billion.

    Today those 401 tonnes would be worth approx $26 billion. Genius.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    edited April 11

    I do not get involved in the gender debate usually but the Cass report seems to have emboldened J K Rowling, Julie Bindel, Judy Murray and others and caused real issues for labour with Wes Steeting making a fulsome apology for his previous comments and then coming under attack from some of his colleagues

    Furthermore if this report from Guido is true then Sky seem to have real internal problems with this subject

    https://order-order.com/2024/04/11/sky-trans-activist-staff-demand-sky-news-editorial-veto/

    Cass was highly critical about the toxicity of the debate, the vilification and bullying on social media, and so forth.
    I don't think Rowling, Bindel and Murray are doing anything to defuse that toxicity.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    I do not get involved in the gender debate usually but the Cass report seems to have emboldened J K Rowling, Julie Bindel, Judy Murray and others and caused real issues for labour with Wes Steeting making a fulsome apology for his previous comments and then coming under attack from some of his colleagues

    Furthermore if this report from Guido is true then Sky seem to have real internal problems with this subject

    https://order-order.com/2024/04/11/sky-trans-activist-staff-demand-sky-news-editorial-veto/

    Cass was highly critical about the toxicity of the debate, the vilification and bullying on social media, and so forth.
    I don't think Rowling, Bindel and Murray are doing anything to defuse that toxicity.
    I think the idea that the debate isn’t going to be pretty heated is ludicrous. The idea that both sides will discuss matters like they’re Edwardian ladies at a vicarage tea party discussing the weather is unrealistic.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    ToryJim said:

    I do not get involved in the gender debate usually but the Cass report seems to have emboldened J K Rowling, Julie Bindel, Judy Murray and others and caused real issues for labour with Wes Steeting making a fulsome apology for his previous comments and then coming under attack from some of his colleagues

    Furthermore if this report from Guido is true then Sky seem to have real internal problems with this subject

    https://order-order.com/2024/04/11/sky-trans-activist-staff-demand-sky-news-editorial-veto/

    Cass was highly critical about the toxicity of the debate, the vilification and bullying on social media, and so forth.
    I don't think Rowling, Bindel and Murray are doing anything to defuse that toxicity.
    I think the idea that the debate isn’t going to be pretty heated is ludicrous. The idea that both sides will discuss matters like they’re Edwardian ladies at a vicarage tea party discussing the weather is unrealistic.
    I think discussing it like ladies named after a man at the home of a man who wears a dress for work would be quite appropriate.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    edited April 11
    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    Racists cop tried to frame him, thank God heroic lawyers like Robert Shapiro, F. Lee Bailey, and Johnny Cochrane ensured justice prevailed.

    Ugh, apologies for the horrific tautology of heroic lawyers.

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    MURDERER, armed robber, film star and star Running Back... ;) That better ?
    Unconvicted murderer; convicted armed robber.
    Adjudged a killer on the balance of probabilities.

    To be a pedant.

    (Also played for the Niners.)
    Now he's dead, we're all free to describe him as we see fir. He can't do anything about it. The legal position is, of course, as you describe it. But then the legal position is the Savile was an unconvicted sex abuser; that didn't mean he didn't do it.
    Can we blame OJ for the Kardashians, or is that a little too harsh?
    Yes, it can be entirely blamed for the hideous outbreak of Nazi Space Lizards

    Cardasians



    Kardashians


    Collagens, surely?
    The actor that played Garak in Deep Space Nine also played the serial killer Scorpio in Dirty Harry and object of you feel lucky, punk. I'd say not a lot of people know that but this is nerdsdopoliticalbetting.com

    Looks quite a benevolent sort nowadays.







  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    Racists cop tried to frame him, thank God heroic lawyers like Robert Shapiro, F. Lee Bailey, and Johnny Cochrane ensured justice prevailed.

    Ugh, apologies for the horrific tautology of heroic lawyers.

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    MURDERER, armed robber, film star and star Running Back... ;) That better ?
    Unconvicted murderer; convicted armed robber.
    Adjudged a killer on the balance of probabilities.

    To be a pedant.

    (Also played for the Niners.)
    Now he's dead, we're all free to describe him as we see fir. He can't do anything about it. The legal position is, of course, as you describe it. But then the legal position is the Savile was an unconvicted sex abuser; that didn't mean he didn't do it.
    Can we blame OJ for the Kardashians, or is that a little too harsh?
    Yes, it can be entirely blamed for the hideous outbreak of Nazi Space Lizards

    Cardasians



    Kardashians


    Collagens, surely?
    The actor that played Garak in Deep Space Nine also played the serial killer Scorpio in Dirty Harry and object of you feel lucky, punk. I'd say not a lot of people know that but this is nerdsdopoliticalbetting.com

    Looks quite a benevolent sort nowadays.







    I always thought his characterisation of the villain in Dirty Harry was what all rather modern actors who play the Joker are basing it on, maybe without knowing. A creepy, strange noise making weirdo with a bit of brains but decidedly unhinged.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    edited April 11

    This is exactly the wake up call Labour needs. As a LD member and voter if Hall wins in London it might actually force Labour to support electoral reform. It’s a price worth paying! It will
    Also ensure Rishi is safe until the GE with totally false hope.

    Labour won London by a 16% margin at GE 2019 so if Hall gets within that it can't be interpreted as undermining Sunak.

    As I said a few threads back, I think the local and mayoral election results will be the ones that matter and will help bolster Sunak's position for a couple of months, rather than undermining it. That's good if it ensures that Sunak is still in place for an Autumn election.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,311

    I do not get involved in the gender debate usually but the Cass report seems to have emboldened J K Rowling, Julie Bindel, Judy Murray and others and caused real issues for labour with Wes Steeting making a fulsome apology for his previous comments and then coming under attack from some of his colleagues

    Furthermore if this report from Guido is true then Sky seem to have real internal problems with this subject

    https://order-order.com/2024/04/11/sky-trans-activist-staff-demand-sky-news-editorial-veto/

    Cass was highly critical about the toxicity of the debate, the vilification and bullying on social media, and so forth.
    I don't think Rowling, Bindel and Murray are doing anything to defuse that toxicity.
    Any idiot who thinks a woman has a penis deserves vilification.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,863
    edited April 11
    boulay said:

    O/T Gordon Brown sold 56% of the UK’s gold reserves at an average price of $275 per oz. He raised $3.5 billion.

    Today those 401 tonnes would be worth approx $26 billion. Genius.

    Funny thing is if you look at the sterling price, it was £270 in 1984 and did not reach that price again until 2006. Dollar price is more or less the same. Gold did not shoot up for some years after the gold sale.

    https://www.gold.co.uk/gold-price/gold-price-history/

  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,588

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    Racists cop tried to frame him, thank God heroic lawyers like Robert Shapiro, F. Lee Bailey, and Johnny Cochrane ensured justice prevailed.

    Ugh, apologies for the horrific tautology of heroic lawyers.

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Film Star, Armed Robber and murderer the Buffalo Bill's most infamous running back THE JUICE has popped his clogs.

    You can now just not include the strike through Shirley?
    You can't defame the dead, so we could say what we like?
    MURDERER, armed robber, film star and star Running Back... ;) That better ?
    Unconvicted murderer; convicted armed robber.
    Adjudged a killer on the balance of probabilities.

    To be a pedant.

    (Also played for the Niners.)
    Now he's dead, we're all free to describe him as we see fir. He can't do anything about it. The legal position is, of course, as you describe it. But then the legal position is the Savile was an unconvicted sex abuser; that didn't mean he didn't do it.
    Can we blame OJ for the Kardashians, or is that a little too harsh?
    Yes, it can be entirely blamed for the hideous outbreak of Nazi Space Lizards

    Cardasians



    Kardashians


    Collagens, surely?
    The actor that played Garak in Deep Space Nine also played the serial killer Scorpio in Dirty Harry and object of you feel lucky, punk. I'd say not a lot of people know that but this is nerdsdopoliticalbetting.com

    Looks quite a benevolent sort nowadays.







    He's a lovely IRL.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,513
    boulay said:

    O/T Gordon Brown sold 56% of the UK’s gold reserves at an average price of $275 per oz. He raised $3.5 billion.

    Today those 401 tonnes would be worth approx $26 billion. Genius.

    What are the council houses that were sold worth now?
  • boulay said:

    O/T Gordon Brown sold 56% of the UK’s gold reserves at an average price of $275 per oz. He raised $3.5 billion.

    Today those 401 tonnes would be worth approx $26 billion. Genius.

    Funny thing is if you look at the sterling price, it was £270 in 1984 and did not reach that price again until 2006. Dollar price is more or less the same. Gold did not shoot up for some years after the gold sale.

    https://www.gold.co.uk/gold-price/gold-price-history/

    I think the biggest criticism of Brown is he pre-announced the gold sale, which inevitably cratered the price, then dumped it at the lower price.

    If you're going to sell large volumes of an asset, then sell it then announce what you've done after you've done it, don't pre-announce it then do it. Also don't do it all at once, do it piecemeal over time.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    boulay said:

    O/T Gordon Brown sold 56% of the UK’s gold reserves at an average price of $275 per oz. He raised $3.5 billion.

    Today those 401 tonnes would be worth approx $26 billion. Genius.

    It's easy to be wise after the event, how long ago was that anyway?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    boulay said:

    O/T Gordon Brown sold 56% of the UK’s gold reserves at an average price of $275 per oz. He raised $3.5 billion.

    Today those 401 tonnes would be worth approx $26 billion. Genius.

    What are the council houses that were sold worth now?
    Interesting thought. Gold doesn't need to be maintained and repainted every now and then. OTOH it doesn't bring in a penny of rent and if anything has a negative interest rate in terms of the security needed. Nor can you live in it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    boulay said:

    O/T Gordon Brown sold 56% of the UK’s gold reserves at an average price of $275 per oz. He raised $3.5 billion.

    Today those 401 tonnes would be worth approx $26 billion. Genius.

    It's easy to be wise after the event, how long ago was that anyway?
    Middle Jurassic. Or at least it feels that long, the way the Tories have been creating catastrophes like a bolide in the Yucatan Peninsula.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798

    I do not get involved in the gender debate usually but the Cass report seems to have emboldened J K Rowling, Julie Bindel, Judy Murray and others and caused real issues for labour with Wes Steeting making a fulsome apology for his previous comments and then coming under attack from some of his colleagues

    Furthermore if this report from Guido is true then Sky seem to have real internal problems with this subject

    https://order-order.com/2024/04/11/sky-trans-activist-staff-demand-sky-news-editorial-veto/

    Cass was highly critical about the toxicity of the debate, the vilification and bullying on social media, and so forth.
    I don't think Rowling, Bindel and Murray are doing anything to defuse that toxicity.
    The problem is that some things are actually worth getting a little cross about. Like child abuse of vulnerable kids.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    boulay said:

    O/T Gordon Brown sold 56% of the UK’s gold reserves at an average price of $275 per oz. He raised $3.5 billion.

    Today those 401 tonnes would be worth approx $26 billion. Genius.

    What are the council houses that were sold worth now?
    The council houses are still an asset in the UK which will continue to generate wealth over time through taxes when sold whilst the gold, unless it was all bought by people and institutions in the UK no longer has any benefit short of whatever the 3.5b was spent on so not really comparable. The council houses weren’t sold and then shipped off to the Far East leaving a dirty great hole that can’t be used again or considered an asset in the UK.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,913

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    latest IPSOS/Reuters polling for the US election, polling 4-8 April 2024, (number in brackets is for January):

    Biden: 41% (38%)

    Trump: 37% (43%)

    GOP are mad. Literally anyone (ANYONE) could beat Biden, other than the Orange One!
    There's a trope that it takes a second stake to the heart sometimes to defeat evil.

    Buffy dealt with this in Buffy vs Dracula, while any other staked vampire in the series would turn to dust and that would be the end of it, Dracula turned to dust then Buffy waited and he reformed so she staked him again saying "I've seen enough of your movies to know you'd be back".

    We had that trope come to political life in the UK with Corbyn, he lost the 2017 election but acted like he won it (not as badly as Trump acted of course) and it took a second defeat in 2019 to see him lose his until-then tight grip on Labour.

    Hopefully a second stake through Trump this November, a second defeat, would release the GOP from the thrall like state it is in to Count Trumpula.
    Lets hope Biden's victory is actually very comfortable or a landslide (I think it probably will be) to see off the Orange One and all his heirs and descendants once for all.
    I've been part of every pb.com groupthink bubble going (except for the Brexit referendum, when I want spending much time on the site at the time), so I'm finding the current experience of looking into a pb.com groupthink from the outside refreshing and unique.

    Just a reminder, Biden's approval ratings are awful and so not presage re-election for an incumbent. Biden is polling so much further behind than in 2020 that it's plausible Trump will win the popular vote.
    The polls are moving Biden's way, although Trump may still be ahead.
    Also factor in the unpopularity dumping Roe v Wade,
    the Republicans in the House,
    Trump's court cases and the fact that he's losing his mind
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkHShhTSMeA
    Also factor in the almighty dollar.

    Biden has a considerably bigger "war chest" than Trump that will be going on campaigning, advertisements etc

    Trump has a much smaller slush fund that is going on legal expenses etc
    The way the Biden administration has been behaving re Ukraine this month, I have barely more faith in it than I would in a Trump one in its commitment (and commitments) to Europe.

    Time to get serious in developing the structures and capabilities to be able to run defence and security independently of the US.
    How has 'Biden been behaving re Ukraine this month'?
    It's the Republican House that is holding up aid to Ukraine.
This discussion has been closed.