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It’s the local economy, stupid? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited April 28 in General
It’s the local economy, stupid? – politicalbetting.com

Really won't matter if people think the national economy is doing badly if they think their own state economies are doing great pic.twitter.com/u32yljX54k

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Strange how so many people see a disjoint between the "local" and national picture.

    I can't ever recall a similar sentiment here. "Things are booming everywhere else, but it's terrible in Manchester", or "We're doing fine, but the rest of the country's a mess" -- that's simply not what people think! -- at least in my experience.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    Excellent economic news here too.

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,453

    Strange how so many people see a disjoint between the "local" and national picture.

    I can't ever recall a similar sentiment here. "Things are booming everywhere else, but it's terrible in Manchester", or "We're doing fine, but the rest of the country's a mess" -- that's simply not what people think! -- at least in my experience.

    Bear in mind that the UK is about the size of Oregon
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417

    Strange how so many people see a disjoint between the "local" and national picture.

    I can't ever recall a similar sentiment here. "Things are booming everywhere else, but it's terrible in Manchester", or "We're doing fine, but the rest of the country's a mess" -- that's simply not what people think! -- at least in my experience.

    Bear in mind that the UK is about the size of Oregon
    Yes but how many Olympic-size double decker buses is that?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    The middle-class homeowners being forced to call a debtline
    Two jobs and a rental property still can’t guarantee control over your finances

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/mortgages/middle-class-debt-help-mortgage-loans/ (£££)

    World's smallest violin territory perhaps but also an illustration of why the government is struggling in the polls. Many natural, small-c Conservative supporters are struggling with increased interest rates and low pay rises. Arguably this is the opposite situation from the American one in the header and that FrequentLurker mentions; well, not quite the opposite but a familiar situation here where the individual is doing worse than the government's tractor stats claim (see the Express front page posted). It is not always the economy; it could be the NHS (see 1997) or crime (2017).
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    The Whatsapp sexting scandal looks more like the work of a political insider than a nation state actor, according to the Guardian's expert. Nor is it clear that any offence has been committed. This paragraph is interesting though:-

    Although Wragg is the only politician to have gone public, some of those targeted as part of the apparent honeytrap have told the Guardian they do not believe the MP would have had their number in his phone contacts. This suggests there was a wider campaign that did not just rely on a single MP opening up their phone book.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/05/who-is-behind-westminster-whatsapp-honeytrap-stings-mp-william-wragg
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    Labour to win at least 64 seats in London in Tory 'wipeout' at general election, three polls show
    The surveys show the Conservatives would get between five and zero seats
    ...
    The More in Common research group analysed recent large scale surveys using the MRP polling method which were carried out by YouGov, Survation and Find Out Now.
    ...
    All three polls showed the Liberal Democrats winning at least five seats, in South West London.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-tories-wipeout-london-seats-general-election-poll-b1149619.html

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    Joe Lycett reveals he's behind 'multiple fake news' stories which have hit the headlines this month
    ...
    He confirmed multiple stories have been shared in the national news including The Mail, The Sun, BBC News , ITV News, Sky News and The Independent.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-04-05/joe-lycett-reveals-hes-behind-multiple-fake-national-news-stories

    Maybe Joe Lycett planted all the polls and stories about the Prime Minister being underwater.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    Liverpool Street/Sir Nicholas Winton Square
    The City of London Corporation is currently consulting on a proposal to rename a section of Liverpool Street in honour of the late Sir Nicholas Winton. The new name proposed is Sir Nicholas Winton Square.

    https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/services/planning/street-naming-and-numbering-guidelines

    Has anyone seen the One Life film? Is it any good? I should probably get round to buying the DVD or streaming it.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Strange how so many people see a disjoint between the "local" and national picture.

    I can't ever recall a similar sentiment here. "Things are booming everywhere else, but it's terrible in Manchester", or "We're doing fine, but the rest of the country's a mess" -- that's simply not what people think! -- at least in my experience.

    Isn’t it just a version of thinking that whilst you personally are doing pretty ok it’s despite the national economic picture not because of it. I suspect there are a sizeable number of folk in Britain who are less personally affected than they had imagined by the so called cost of living crisis but would still go along with the current zeitgeist that the country is teetering on the edge of oblivion.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    ToryJim said:

    Strange how so many people see a disjoint between the "local" and national picture.

    I can't ever recall a similar sentiment here. "Things are booming everywhere else, but it's terrible in Manchester", or "We're doing fine, but the rest of the country's a mess" -- that's simply not what people think! -- at least in my experience.

    Isn’t it just a version of thinking that whilst you personally are doing pretty ok it’s despite the national economic picture not because of it. I suspect there are a sizeable number of folk in Britain who are less personally affected than they had imagined by the so called cost of living crisis but would still go along with the current zeitgeist that the country is teetering on the edge of oblivion.
    Against that, I would caution that as here, American housing costs have been rising.
    https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-price-median-annual-income-ratio/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,145

    Strange how so many people see a disjoint between the "local" and national picture.

    I can't ever recall a similar sentiment here. "Things are booming everywhere else, but it's terrible in Manchester", or "We're doing fine, but the rest of the country's a mess" -- that's simply not what people think! -- at least in my experience.

    Yes, but then most of these Americans have never been to all these places they see on the TV; they might as well be on the moon as far as they are concerned.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099

    Excellent economic news here too.

    Sure, Rishi. As soon as you leave office...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    Morning, penis worshippers.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 994

    Liverpool Street/Sir Nicholas Winton Square
    The City of London Corporation is currently consulting on a proposal to rename a section of Liverpool Street in honour of the late Sir Nicholas Winton. The new name proposed is Sir Nicholas Winton Square.

    https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/services/planning/street-naming-and-numbering-guidelines

    Has anyone seen the One Life film? Is it any good? I should probably get round to buying the DVD or streaming it.

    Really excellent - take a hankie or two!
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 994
    edited April 6

    Morning, penis worshippers.

    As Jon Richardson on HIGNFY said (or words to that effect) - "That's the last thing of mine I'd want to show anybody."
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    The US jobs news isn't good at all tbh. Makes the fed more likely to keep rates high with the boe cowards following suit
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    Icarus said:

    Morning, penis worshippers.

    As Jon Richardson on HIGNFY said (or words to that effect) - "That's the last thing of mine I'd want to show anybody."
    Surely his heart and/or other internal organs would be the last thing?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,898
    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    Strange how so many people see a disjoint between the "local" and national picture.

    I can't ever recall a similar sentiment here. "Things are booming everywhere else, but it's terrible in Manchester", or "We're doing fine, but the rest of the country's a mess" -- that's simply not what people think! -- at least in my experience.

    I think it was the case in the Eighties. I was at Med School in booming London, full of Yuppies, Filofaxes and Sloane Rangers. We went on a road trip to Newcastle one weekend stopping off at fellow students in Northampton, Mansfield and Newcastle. This was during the Miners strike and quite a different world.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    Oh good grief.

    More allegations circulating about Trump's bond arrangements.

    Now it is claimed he *did* have an offer for $464 million - from the man who eventually posted his $175 million - and covered it up.

    If so, he and his lawyers are in deep, deep shit.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-saved-millions-civil-fraud-bond-secret-billionaire-offer-report-2024-4
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,027
    edited April 6
    Excellent article from Andrew Neil on SKS.

    The Tories have lost the right to govern but labour offers little too aside from taxing the productive part of the economy to fund the non productive part.

    https://x.com/bobmca1/status/1776469717730971734?s=61
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,898

    Morning, penis worshippers.

    The God of Small Things.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    ydoethur said:

    If so, he and his lawyers are in deep, deep shit.

    Are they?

    The whole story seems to be how Trump gets special treatment from the courts. Why would they not let him off with this one?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,778

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.

    These days it's often hard to tell whether people on the right are saying things out of sheer desperation, in the forlorn hope of finally hitting on something that might save their political skins.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,468
    ydoethur said:

    Oh good grief.

    More allegations circulating about Trump's bond arrangements.

    Now it is claimed he *did* have an offer for $464 million - from the man who eventually posted his $175 million - and covered it up.

    If so, he and his lawyers are in deep, deep shit.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-saved-millions-civil-fraud-bond-secret-billionaire-offer-report-2024-4

    Unfortunately, the case as described there doesn’t seem that concrete.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    ydoethur said:

    Oh good grief.

    More allegations circulating about Trump's bond arrangements.

    Now it is claimed he *did* have an offer for $464 million - from the man who eventually posted his $175 million - and covered it up.

    If so, he and his lawyers are in deep, deep shit.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-saved-millions-civil-fraud-bond-secret-billionaire-offer-report-2024-4

    But even the $175m bond has been doubted as having the headroom for Knight Speciality to cover. So Trump might well be able to argue "he offered, but we didn't feel it would have been accepted by this Trump-hating court..."
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,027
    And an excellent piece from Janan Ganesh. Labour is the party of the public sector middle class as the Tories are the party of the elderly.

    The dividing line in labours time in office will be less productive public sector, with ever increasing demands, versus the private sector which is seen as a cash cow.

    https://www.ft.com/content/14697639-5ec7-40e7-a679-3ceef10e7529
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    edited April 6

    ydoethur said:

    Oh good grief.

    More allegations circulating about Trump's bond arrangements.

    Now it is claimed he *did* have an offer for $464 million - from the man who eventually posted his $175 million - and covered it up.

    If so, he and his lawyers are in deep, deep shit.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-saved-millions-civil-fraud-bond-secret-billionaire-offer-report-2024-4

    Unfortunately, the case as described there doesn’t seem that concrete.
    That's why I added 'if so.'

    Trump's whole bond business seems weirder than a Roger Moore plot. First he couldn't afford it, then he could in cash, but not in court terms, then he got the bond, but the firm couldn't fill in the paperwork properly, then were found not to be properly licensed. Now it may be there was a chance he had the money for the first bond but didn't tell anyone.

    I think the most significant part of all this is he is rather confirming you can't trust a word the old fool says on financial matters. Which I can't imagine will help him on appeal.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    edited April 6
    Foxy said:

    Strange how so many people see a disjoint between the "local" and national picture.

    I can't ever recall a similar sentiment here. "Things are booming everywhere else, but it's terrible in Manchester", or "We're doing fine, but the rest of the country's a mess" -- that's simply not what people think! -- at least in my experience.

    I think it was the case in the Eighties. I was at Med School in booming London, full of Yuppies, Filofaxes and Sloane Rangers. We went on a road trip to Newcastle one weekend stopping off at fellow students in Northampton, Mansfield and Newcastle. This was during the Miners strike and quite a different world.
    Way back at the end of the 50s I went from being a sixth former in Southeast Essex to studying at what is now Sunderland University. Complete change of scene; very good for me!

    And pleasant, bright morning here; some sun, scattered clouds and very little wind.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,898
    Taz said:

    And an excellent piece from Janan Ganesh. Labour is the party of the public sector middle class as the Tories are the party of the elderly.

    The dividing line in labours time in office will be less productive public sector, with ever increasing demands, versus the private sector which is seen as a cash cow.

    https://www.ft.com/content/14697639-5ec7-40e7-a679-3ceef10e7529

    And the party of the elderly isn't using working people and the private sector as a cash cow right now?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,468
    Taz said:

    And an excellent piece from Janan Ganesh. Labour is the party of the public sector middle class as the Tories are the party of the elderly.

    The dividing line in labours time in office will be less productive public sector, with ever increasing demands, versus the private sector which is seen as a cash cow.

    https://www.ft.com/content/14697639-5ec7-40e7-a679-3ceef10e7529

    Traditionally, it’s the LibDems who are the party of the public sector middle class.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    ydoethur said:

    Oh good grief.

    More allegations circulating about Trump's bond arrangements.

    Now it is claimed he *did* have an offer for $464 million - from the man who eventually posted his $175 million - and covered it up.

    If so, he and his lawyers are in deep, deep shit.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-saved-millions-civil-fraud-bond-secret-billionaire-offer-report-2024-4

    But even the $175m bond has been doubted as having the headroom for Knight Speciality to cover. So Trump might well be able to argue "he offered, but we didn't feel it would have been accepted by this Trump-hating court..."
    The crux is whether his lawyers said he couldn't raise it, or whether they said nobody was willing to cover it.

    If the latter, then there is a problem.

    I can't actually find the filing to see which it was, although the words 'practical impossibility' are quoted in the media. That might suggest it was the former, although arguably they should have disclosed it anyway.

    Of course, that does all assume the allegation is true. But it's Hankey himself saying it so I don't see why it shouldn't be.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    Taz said:

    And an excellent piece from Janan Ganesh. Labour is the party of the public sector middle class as the Tories are the party of the elderly.

    The dividing line in labours time in office will be less productive public sector, with ever increasing demands, versus the private sector which is seen as a cash cow.

    https://www.ft.com/content/14697639-5ec7-40e7-a679-3ceef10e7529

    And the party of the elderly isn't using working people and the private sector as a cash cow right now?
    Although judging by a conversation I had with one pensioner* yesterday they're not terribly grateful. He was fuming about his taxes going up.

    He may not have been typical of course.

    *Autocorrect made that into 'penises.' I think AI has been reading this thread...badly.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122
    edited April 6

    Excellent economic news here too.

    It seems rather optimistic for Sunak to expect a boom on the basis of 1% NI cut, particularly with fiscal drag meaning that many are no better off. Good that they found space for my pay rise which is backdated to 1 March so should get me a decent lump this month.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    Chris said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.

    These days it's often hard to tell whether people on the right are saying things out of sheer desperation, in the forlorn hope of finally hitting on something that might save their political skins.
    On reading the article, many of us live in 15-minute cities already in the sense there are local shops. London is often described as a collection of villages. What people object to is heavy-handed traffic restrictions so a minority of cyclists can ride wherever they like at the expense of people who depend on public transport.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.

    A lot of it is AstroTurf, but it only works by tapping into a couple of genuine fears.

    One is that geometry hates cars and cars kill the concept. If you have enough road and parking space for most adults to drive regularly, homes, businesses and nice things end up too far apart. Hence the doom loop that leads to most modern British developments- provide sufficient space for cars and everyone ends up depending on them. To make the sort of walkable communities (that price signals show that people want to live in), there isn't really space for lots of cars.

    Similarly, the standard British nice house (detached, two stories, largeish garden, double garage) is also pretty space hungry. To make 15 minutes work, you do need more terraces, mid rise and flats. Whilst they don't have to be crummy, too many of them have been shabbily built on the past.

    So it's a concept that works better on practice than in theory. It also says to the generation that went all-in on cars "you rather messed up, and the freedom you went for isn't so desirable after all." Even if you don't say that bit out loud, it's strongly implied. My experience is that boomers (for it is they) don't like that at all.

    (See also the "my car is essential and doesn't hurt anyone" stuff that accompanied ULEZ.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122
    Pulpstar said:

    The US jobs news isn't good at all tbh. Makes the fed more likely to keep rates high with the boe cowards following suit

    In April the rise in Living Wage is implemented, so will put inflationary pressure on lots of labour intensive workplaces in Hospitality and Social Care. There surely will be a spike in inflation as a result, albeit shortlived.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: unsure when I'll post the pre-race tosh as I'm busy this evening so it might be sooner than I'd like (late morning/early afternoon) when the markets aren't all there.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    £20k tax-free Isa allowance ‘hard to justify’
    Costly accounts have failed to encourage saving among low-income earners

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/investing/isas/20k-isa-tax-free-allowance-hard-to-justify/ (£££)

    Story based on a Resolution Foundation report that can be found here:
    https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/publications/ineffective-savings-accounts/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.

    A lot of it is AstroTurf, but it only works by tapping into a couple of genuine fears.

    One is that geometry hates cars and cars kill the concept. If you have enough road and parking space for most adults to drive regularly, homes, businesses and nice things end up too far apart. Hence the doom loop that leads to most modern British developments- provide sufficient space for cars and everyone ends up depending on them. To make the sort of walkable communities (that price signals show that people want to live in), there isn't really space for lots of cars.

    Similarly, the standard British nice house (detached, two stories, largeish garden, double garage) is also pretty space hungry. To make 15 minutes work, you do need more terraces, mid rise and flats. Whilst they don't have to be crummy, too many of them have been shabbily built on the past.

    So it's a concept that works better on practice than in theory. It also says to the generation that went all-in on cars "you rather messed up, and the freedom you went for isn't so desirable after all." Even if you don't say that bit out loud, it's strongly implied. My experience is that boomers (for it is they) don't like that at all.

    (See also the "my car is essential and doesn't hurt anyone" stuff that accompanied ULEZ.)
    Yes, 15 minute cities is really a very conservative urban idea, based on traditional housing of a century ago, rather than modern lifestyles. New developments in the style can work, but need to be appealing. Decent public transport and underground parking are key I think.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449

    Taz said:

    And an excellent piece from Janan Ganesh. Labour is the party of the public sector middle class as the Tories are the party of the elderly.

    The dividing line in labours time in office will be less productive public sector, with ever increasing demands, versus the private sector which is seen as a cash cow.

    https://www.ft.com/content/14697639-5ec7-40e7-a679-3ceef10e7529

    And the party of the elderly isn't using working people and the private sector as a cash cow right now?
    Plus financial parts of the private sector using other parts of the private sector as cash cows by loading them up with debt. Isn't that roughly what's killing Thames Water? (That, and not doing enough actual investment for decades.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    No, it isn't mine. Sadly.

    And I can't afford it and anyway I don't have space for it :frowning:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9rvzdlnp0ro
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.

    A lot of it is AstroTurf, but it only works by tapping into a couple of genuine fears.

    One is that geometry hates cars and cars kill the concept. If you have enough road and parking space for most adults to drive regularly, homes, businesses and nice things end up too far apart. Hence the doom loop that leads to most modern British developments- provide sufficient space for cars and everyone ends up depending on them. To make the sort of walkable communities (that price signals show that people want to live in), there isn't really space for lots of cars.

    Similarly, the standard British nice house (detached, two stories, largeish garden, double garage) is also pretty space hungry. To make 15 minutes work, you do need more terraces, mid rise and flats. Whilst they don't have to be crummy, too many of them have been shabbily built on the past.

    So it's a concept that works better on practice than in theory. It also says to the generation that went all-in on cars "you rather messed up, and the freedom you went for isn't so desirable after all." Even if you don't say that bit out loud, it's strongly implied. My experience is that boomers (for it is they) don't like that at all.

    (See also the "my car is essential and doesn't hurt anyone" stuff that accompanied ULEZ.)
    I'm unsure about that. The villages/town I live in is new (construction started ~ 1997), and has plenty of 'usual' newbuild houses. The central hub of the village is pretty much walkable from anywhere in the village (*). The main supermarket is at the hub, but two Co-Ops also provide more localised services. There are five children's play areas, four primary schools, and two cricket pitches. The maximum distance from one side to the other (*) is 1.6 miles, from the other 1 mile, containing 12,000 people and 4,250 homes.

    This may be because the 'town' was planned as three distinct villages (Upper, Lower and Great), separate from each other by green spaces, but linked at the hub. It was not a bad design, although one that is sadly being abandoned as it further expands (and the Lib Dem council ***** things up further. (**) by cramming yet more houses onto centralish sites meant for businesses.

    I don't think the 15-minute concept fails with modern developments - the development just needs to be planned as such. And it costs to do things properly...

    (*) Leaving aside the new Cambourne West, which has zero facilities at the moment, and is farther away.
    (**) I'm sure as heck not voting Lib Dem in the locals.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    Foxy said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.

    A lot of it is AstroTurf, but it only works by tapping into a couple of genuine fears.

    One is that geometry hates cars and cars kill the concept. If you have enough road and parking space for most adults to drive regularly, homes, businesses and nice things end up too far apart. Hence the doom loop that leads to most modern British developments- provide sufficient space for cars and everyone ends up depending on them. To make the sort of walkable communities (that price signals show that people want to live in), there isn't really space for lots of cars.

    Similarly, the standard British nice house (detached, two stories, largeish garden, double garage) is also pretty space hungry. To make 15 minutes work, you do need more terraces, mid rise and flats. Whilst they don't have to be crummy, too many of them have been shabbily built on the past.

    So it's a concept that works better on practice than in theory. It also says to the generation that went all-in on cars "you rather messed up, and the freedom you went for isn't so desirable after all." Even if you don't say that bit out loud, it's strongly implied. My experience is that boomers (for it is they) don't like that at all.

    (See also the "my car is essential and doesn't hurt anyone" stuff that accompanied ULEZ.)
    Yes, 15 minute cities is really a very conservative urban idea, based on traditional housing of a century ago, rather than modern lifestyles. New developments in the style can work, but need to be appealing. Decent public transport and underground parking are key I think.
    Rubbish. See my post below.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417

    Foxy said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.

    A lot of it is AstroTurf, but it only works by tapping into a couple of genuine fears.

    One is that geometry hates cars and cars kill the concept. If you have enough road and parking space for most adults to drive regularly, homes, businesses and nice things end up too far apart. Hence the doom loop that leads to most modern British developments- provide sufficient space for cars and everyone ends up depending on them. To make the sort of walkable communities (that price signals show that people want to live in), there isn't really space for lots of cars.

    Similarly, the standard British nice house (detached, two stories, largeish garden, double garage) is also pretty space hungry. To make 15 minutes work, you do need more terraces, mid rise and flats. Whilst they don't have to be crummy, too many of them have been shabbily built on the past.

    So it's a concept that works better on practice than in theory. It also says to the generation that went all-in on cars "you rather messed up, and the freedom you went for isn't so desirable after all." Even if you don't say that bit out loud, it's strongly implied. My experience is that boomers (for it is they) don't like that at all.

    (See also the "my car is essential and doesn't hurt anyone" stuff that accompanied ULEZ.)
    Yes, 15 minute cities is really a very conservative urban idea, based on traditional housing of a century ago, rather than modern lifestyles. New developments in the style can work, but need to be appealing. Decent public transport and underground parking are key I think.
    Rubbish. See my post below.
    Or above, depending whether the reader sorts messages from oldest or newest.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.

    A lot of it is AstroTurf, but it only works by tapping into a couple of genuine fears.

    One is that geometry hates cars and cars kill the concept. If you have enough road and parking space for most adults to drive regularly, homes, businesses and nice things end up too far apart. Hence the doom loop that leads to most modern British developments- provide sufficient space for cars and everyone ends up depending on them. To make the sort of walkable communities (that price signals show that people want to live in), there isn't really space for lots of cars.

    Similarly, the standard British nice house (detached, two stories, largeish garden, double garage) is also pretty space hungry. To make 15 minutes work, you do need more terraces, mid rise and flats. Whilst they don't have to be crummy, too many of them have been shabbily built on the past.

    So it's a concept that works better on practice than in theory. It also says to the generation that went all-in on cars "you rather messed up, and the freedom you went for isn't so desirable after all." Even if you don't say that bit out loud, it's strongly implied. My experience is that boomers (for it is they) don't like that at all.

    (See also the "my car is essential and doesn't hurt anyone" stuff that accompanied ULEZ.)
    I'm unsure about that. The villages/town I live in is new (construction started ~ 1997), and has plenty of 'usual' newbuild houses. The central hub of the village is pretty much walkable from anywhere in the village (*). The main supermarket is at the hub, but two Co-Ops also provide more localised services. There are five children's play areas, four primary schools, and two cricket pitches. The maximum distance from one side to the other (*) is 1.6 miles, from the other 1 mile, containing 12,000 people and 4,250 homes.

    This may be because the 'town' was planned as three distinct villages (Upper, Lower and Great), separate from each other by green spaces, but linked at the hub. It was not a bad design, although one that is sadly being abandoned as it further expands (and the Lib Dem council ***** things up further. (**) by cramming yet more houses onto centralish sites meant for businesses.

    I don't think the 15-minute concept fails with modern developments - the development just needs to be planned as such. And it costs to do things properly...

    (*) Leaving aside the new Cambourne West, which has zero facilities at the moment, and is farther away.
    (**) I'm sure as heck not voting Lib Dem in the locals.
    Absolutely can be done, if the intent is there. And it probably needs planning at the "we're going to build a cluster of complete villages over a couple of decades" approach. A lot of modern developments are too small to justify much infrastructure by themselves.

    (The other thing 15 minute neighbourhood types are keen on is getting all day/every day use out of infrastructure. So the school theatre and sports hall are built to a standard that makes public use in the evenings and weekends attractive. Cambridgeshire village colleges were ahead of the game there, but it does mean putting more money in up front.)
  • eekeek Posts: 28,586
    edited April 6
    Foxy said:

    Excellent economic news here too.

    It seems rather optimistic for Sunak to expect a boom on the basis of 1% NI cut, particularly with fiscal drag meaning that many are no better off. Good that they found space for my pay rise which is backdated to 1 March so should get me a decent lump this month.
    It’s a 2% tax cut but even then it’s not going to give people enough to cover mortgage / food price increases. I’m going to ignore fiscal drag because a lot of pay packets in the £26,000 to £32000 bracket aren’t increasing because the minimum wage increase seems to have impacted what’s available for pay rising at the next level up.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Good morning.

    Having made something of the last 5 consecutive polls all giving Labour a 20%+ lead, along came BNG in the middle of them with an 18% one.

    Nevertheless, the mean Labour lead from the last nine polls is 21%.

    The Conservatives have dropped 2% in March.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,468
    Heathener said:

    Good morning.

    Having made something of the last 5 consecutive polls all giving Labour a 20%+ lead, along came BNG in the middle of them with an 18% one.

    Nevertheless, the mean Labour lead from the last nine polls is 21%.

    The Conservatives have dropped 2% in March.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

    The last poll to have the Tories in the thirties was mid-October last year.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909

    Strange how so many people see a disjoint between the "local" and national picture.

    I can't ever recall a similar sentiment here. "Things are booming everywhere else, but it's terrible in Manchester", or "We're doing fine, but the rest of the country's a mess" -- that's simply not what people think! -- at least in my experience.

    I'm guessing that this is because people experience the reality of a strong economy locally, but they're relying on the media to judge the state of the national economy. Some of that media is flat out biased against Biden and the Democrats, and so will talk down the economy, and for the rest of the media bad news sells better than good.

    It's frustrating really. The US has problems enough without the media inventing new ones.

    I'm not convinced that Biden will get the credit for a strong local economy.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Heathener said:

    Good morning.

    Having made something of the last 5 consecutive polls all giving Labour a 20%+ lead, along came BNG in the middle of them with an 18% one.

    Nevertheless, the mean Labour lead from the last nine polls is 21%.

    The Conservatives have dropped 2% in March.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

    The last poll to have the Tories in the thirties was mid-October last year.
    Wow. Incredible really.

    I am increasingly convinced they will poll sub 30% in the real thing. Quite possibly closer to 25%. The longer he leaves it, the lower it may fall.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning.

    Having made something of the last 5 consecutive polls all giving Labour a 20%+ lead, along came BNG in the middle of them with an 18% one.

    Nevertheless, the mean Labour lead from the last nine polls is 21%.

    The Conservatives have dropped 2% in March.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

    The last poll to have the Tories in the thirties was mid-October last year.
    Wow. Incredible really.

    I am increasingly convinced they will poll sub 30% in the real thing. Quite possibly closer to 25%. The longer he leaves it, the lower it may fall.
    Richi has lost the dressing room

    By which I mean the entire voting public...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,468
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning.

    Having made something of the last 5 consecutive polls all giving Labour a 20%+ lead, along came BNG in the middle of them with an 18% one.

    Nevertheless, the mean Labour lead from the last nine polls is 21%.

    The Conservatives have dropped 2% in March.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

    The last poll to have the Tories in the thirties was mid-October last year.
    Wow. Incredible really.

    I am increasingly convinced they will poll sub 30% in the real thing. Quite possibly closer to 25%. The longer he leaves it, the lower it may fall.
    The last time the Labour lead was in single figures was Sep 2022.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    edited April 6
    I see Labour MP Charlotte Nichols is suggesting the NHS could fund "magic mushrooms" as treatment for some mental health conditions.

    How are we supposed to afford that has she not heard austerity Reeves telling us that there's no magic mushroom tree!!

    Gets coat
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909
    Foxy said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.

    A lot of it is AstroTurf, but it only works by tapping into a couple of genuine fears.

    One is that geometry hates cars and cars kill the concept. If you have enough road and parking space for most adults to drive regularly, homes, businesses and nice things end up too far apart. Hence the doom loop that leads to most modern British developments- provide sufficient space for cars and everyone ends up depending on them. To make the sort of walkable communities (that price signals show that people want to live in), there isn't really space for lots of cars.

    Similarly, the standard British nice house (detached, two stories, largeish garden, double garage) is also pretty space hungry. To make 15 minutes work, you do need more terraces, mid rise and flats. Whilst they don't have to be crummy, too many of them have been shabbily built on the past.

    So it's a concept that works better on practice than in theory. It also says to the generation that went all-in on cars "you rather messed up, and the freedom you went for isn't so desirable after all." Even if you don't say that bit out loud, it's strongly implied. My experience is that boomers (for it is they) don't like that at all.

    (See also the "my car is essential and doesn't hurt anyone" stuff that accompanied ULEZ.)
    Yes, 15 minute cities is really a very conservative urban idea, based on traditional housing of a century ago, rather than modern lifestyles. New developments in the style can work, but need to be appealing. Decent public transport and underground parking are key I think.
    I like the idea of underground parking in theory, but do I trust a developer to design and build it properly, or would I expect a flash flood to destroy all the cars parked there as a near certainty?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,240
    edited April 6
    Reading books is the biggest threat to the American way of life according to the Trump crowd. The war against librarians continues as Louisiana makes it a criminal offence to join the American Library Association


    https://bookriot.com/louisiana-hb-777/
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    Scott_xP said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning.

    Having made something of the last 5 consecutive polls all giving Labour a 20%+ lead, along came BNG in the middle of them with an 18% one.

    Nevertheless, the mean Labour lead from the last nine polls is 21%.

    The Conservatives have dropped 2% in March.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

    The last poll to have the Tories in the thirties was mid-October last year.
    Wow. Incredible really.

    I am increasingly convinced they will poll sub 30% in the real thing. Quite possibly closer to 25%. The longer he leaves it, the lower it may fall.
    Richi has lost the dressing room

    By which I mean the entire voting public...
    He only had them for about five minutes because of who he replaced.
    The directors will put in another manager.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,898

    Chris said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.

    These days it's often hard to tell whether people on the right are saying things out of sheer desperation, in the forlorn hope of finally hitting on something that might save their political skins.
    On reading the article, many of us live in 15-minute cities already in the sense there are local shops. London is often described as a collection of villages. What people object to is heavy-handed traffic restrictions so a minority of cyclists can ride wherever they like at the expense of people who depend on public transport.
    I've never seen a LTN or other restriction that worsens public transport access.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    I see Labour MP Charlotte Nichols is suggesting the NHS could fund "magic mushrooms" as treatment for some mental health conditions.

    How are we supposed to afford that has she not heard austerity Reeves telling us that there's no magic mushroom tree!!

    Gets coat

    There’s actually a serious point here which doesn’t deserve such a careless throwaway remark.

    The potential curative mental health properties of Psilocybin is a genuine area of research. A psychiatrist friend of mine is researching it right now and, if you have not done so, you might try reading the best-seller 'Entangled Life' by Merlin Sheldrake.

    If I may say so, it’s fairly typical of the reactionary right to shout first and think later, if at all.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning.

    Having made something of the last 5 consecutive polls all giving Labour a 20%+ lead, along came BNG in the middle of them with an 18% one.

    Nevertheless, the mean Labour lead from the last nine polls is 21%.

    The Conservatives have dropped 2% in March.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

    The last poll to have the Tories in the thirties was mid-October last year.
    Wow. Incredible really.

    I am increasingly convinced they will poll sub 30% in the real thing. Quite possibly closer to 25%. The longer he leaves it, the lower it may fall.
    The last time the Labour lead was in single figures was Sep 2022.
    Last Tory lead 6/12/21
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,473
    Donkeys said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning.

    Having made something of the last 5 consecutive polls all giving Labour a 20%+ lead, along came BNG in the middle of them with an 18% one.

    Nevertheless, the mean Labour lead from the last nine polls is 21%.

    The Conservatives have dropped 2% in March.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

    The last poll to have the Tories in the thirties was mid-October last year.
    Wow. Incredible really.

    I am increasingly convinced they will poll sub 30% in the real thing. Quite possibly closer to 25%. The longer he leaves it, the lower it may fall.
    Richi has lost the dressing room

    By which I mean the entire voting public...
    He only had them for about five minutes because of who he replaced.
    The directors will put in another manager.
    Heavy points deduction and administration I reckon.
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723

    Excellent economic news here too.

    Gotta hand it to the Express for a beautiful front page.
    Buckle up! Andrew's baaaaack!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    FF43 said:

    Reading books is the biggest threat to the American way of life according to the Trump crowd. The war against librarians continues as Louisiana makes it a criminal offence to join the American Library Association


    https://bookriot.com/louisiana-hb-777/

    Ties in with what I’ve just posted.

    Reading broadens horizons, challenges one’s perceptions, opens perspectives.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997

    Joe Lycett reveals he's behind 'multiple fake news' stories which have hit the headlines this month
    ...
    He confirmed multiple stories have been shared in the national news including The Mail, The Sun, BBC News , ITV News, Sky News and The Independent.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-04-05/joe-lycett-reveals-hes-behind-multiple-fake-national-news-stories

    Maybe Joe Lycett planted all the polls and stories about the Prime Minister being underwater.

    Not the first time a comedian has planted fake news in unwitting papers. Perhaps they should spend more time checking their sources?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,898

    Taz said:

    And an excellent piece from Janan Ganesh. Labour is the party of the public sector middle class as the Tories are the party of the elderly.

    The dividing line in labours time in office will be less productive public sector, with ever increasing demands, versus the private sector which is seen as a cash cow.

    https://www.ft.com/content/14697639-5ec7-40e7-a679-3ceef10e7529

    And the party of the elderly isn't using working people and the private sector as a cash cow right now?
    Plus financial parts of the private sector using other parts of the private sector as cash cows by loading them up with debt. Isn't that roughly what's killing Thames Water? (That, and not doing enough actual investment for decades.)
    Also the private sector using the public sector as a cash cow seems to have become more of a thing recently.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Comic Sans, Helvetica and Times New Roman walk into a pub. The landlord yells, Get out! We don’t serve your type in here!

    Gets 2nd coat
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    Some good numbers for Biden there on the economy in the swing states. How voters feel about the economy will be key in November
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556
    Heathener said:

    I see Labour MP Charlotte Nichols is suggesting the NHS could fund "magic mushrooms" as treatment for some mental health conditions.

    How are we supposed to afford that has she not heard austerity Reeves telling us that there's no magic mushroom tree!!

    Gets coat

    There’s actually a serious point here which doesn’t deserve such a careless throwaway remark.

    The potential curative mental health properties of Psilocybin is a genuine area of research. A psychiatrist friend of mine is researching it right now and, if you have not done so, you might try reading the best-seller 'Entangled Life' by Merlin Sheldrake.

    If I may say so, it’s fairly typical of the reactionary right to shout first and think later, if at all.
    BJO is reactionary right? That’s a shocker.

    It’s clear that Psilocybin is very helpful for treating certain mental conditions and should be rolled out as soon as possible especially for people with PTSD. Will ultimately save Society and the NHS a lot of money in the long run.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    BJO gets up to go to pub. Tells Mrs BJ to get her coat.

    Are you taking me with you she says

    No i am turning the heating off.

    Gets 4th coat if you include the one mentioned in this joke
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880

    FF43 said:

    Reading books is the biggest threat to the American way of life according to the Trump crowd. The war against librarians continues as Louisiana makes it a criminal offence to join the American Library Association


    https://bookriot.com/louisiana-hb-777/

    There are lots of disturbing tendencies in the US right now, but the open warfare against libraries and librarians has to be one of the more disturbing, and it's also a clear sign of how anti-democracy is a core strategy of the GOP more widely, and not Trump alone.
    I highly doubt Haley cares as much about the books the American Library Association promotes
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,963

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: unsure when I'll post the pre-race tosh as I'm busy this evening so it might be sooner than I'd like (late morning/early afternoon) when the markets aren't all there.

    Max on Pole yawn. Unless we can expect a monsoon - on snow! - then what is the point? F1 goes through these tiresome phases of utter dominance where its easier not to watch. I didn't wake up early to watch quali and find Max on poll. ZzzzzzzzZzzzzzzz
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449

    Comic Sans, Helvetica and Times New Roman walk into a pub. The landlord yells, Get out! We don’t serve your type in here!

    Gets 2nd coat

    Wouldn't bother with the coat. It's really quite pleasant out there this morning.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,319

    Comic Sans, Helvetica and Times New Roman walk into a pub. The landlord yells, Get out! We don’t serve your type in here!

    Gets 2nd coat

    Also works for Eric Gill.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177

    Joe Lycett reveals he's behind 'multiple fake news' stories which have hit the headlines this month
    ...
    He confirmed multiple stories have been shared in the national news including The Mail, The Sun, BBC News , ITV News, Sky News and The Independent.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-04-05/joe-lycett-reveals-hes-behind-multiple-fake-national-news-stories

    Maybe Joe Lycett planted all the polls and stories about the Prime Minister being underwater.

    I see the Express has run one on its front page today.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880

    Taz said:

    And an excellent piece from Janan Ganesh. Labour is the party of the public sector middle class as the Tories are the party of the elderly.

    The dividing line in labours time in office will be less productive public sector, with ever increasing demands, versus the private sector which is seen as a cash cow.

    https://www.ft.com/content/14697639-5ec7-40e7-a679-3ceef10e7529

    Traditionally, it’s the LibDems who are the party of the public sector middle class.
    Only briefly in the Blair years when Charles Kennedy was LD leader and arguably left of New Labour.

    Since the coalition the public sector middle class have been firmly Labour again overall
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Heathener said:

    I see Labour MP Charlotte Nichols is suggesting the NHS could fund "magic mushrooms" as treatment for some mental health conditions.

    How are we supposed to afford that has she not heard austerity Reeves telling us that there's no magic mushroom tree!!

    Gets coat

    There’s actually a serious point here which doesn’t deserve such a careless throwaway remark.

    The potential curative mental health properties of Psilocybin is a genuine area of research. A psychiatrist friend of mine is researching it right now and, if you have not done so, you might try reading the best-seller 'Entangled Life' by Merlin Sheldrake.

    If I may say so, it’s fairly typical of the reactionary right to shout first and think later, if at all.
    Get a life mate it was a joke.

    Do you really think i was discussing the merits of the matter?
  • Heathener said:

    I see Labour MP Charlotte Nichols is suggesting the NHS could fund "magic mushrooms" as treatment for some mental health conditions.

    How are we supposed to afford that has she not heard austerity Reeves telling us that there's no magic mushroom tree!!

    Gets coat

    There’s actually a serious point here which doesn’t deserve such a careless throwaway remark.

    The potential curative mental health properties of Psilocybin is a genuine area of research. A psychiatrist friend of mine is researching it right now and, if you have not done so, you might try reading the best-seller 'Entangled Life' by Merlin Sheldrake.

    If I may say so, it’s fairly typical of the reactionary right to shout first and think later, if at all.
    That's a brilliant book and really opened up the subject for me. Mushrooms are a big part of our diet, and we've started growing our own Lion's Mane and Oysters.
    Have you watched his documentary?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Comic Sans, Helvetica and Times New Roman walk into a pub. The landlord yells, Get out! We don’t serve your type in here!

    Gets 2nd coat

    Wouldn't bother with the coat. It's really quite pleasant out there this morning.

    Comic Sans, Helvetica and Times New Roman walk into a pub. The landlord yells, Get out! We don’t serve your type in here!

    Gets 2nd coat

    Wouldn't bother with the coat. It's really quite pleasant out there this morning.
    Too windy.

    Coat and shorts weather for me.

    Wonder if there will be any play at Derbyshire CCC today if its on will go to morning session followed by a Non League football game
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Reading books is the biggest threat to the American way of life according to the Trump crowd. The war against librarians continues as Louisiana makes it a criminal offence to join the American Library Association


    https://bookriot.com/louisiana-hb-777/

    There are lots of disturbing tendencies in the US right now, but the open warfare against libraries and librarians has to be one of the more disturbing, and it's also a clear sign of how anti-democracy is a core strategy of the GOP more widely, and not Trump alone.
    I highly doubt Haley cares as much about the books the American Library Association promotes
    The ALA prsomotes all books. That's the point.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    FF43 said:

    Reading books is the biggest threat to the American way of life according to the Trump crowd. The war against librarians continues as Louisiana makes it a criminal offence to join the American Library Association

    https://bookriot.com/louisiana-hb-777/

    Actually the law has yet to pass - but it might, as a similar measure only narrowly failed in another state.
    Many such bills are have regularly been put forward by the GOP in the redder states as performative measures, which have no chance of passing. That has changed recently.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    I see Labour MP Charlotte Nichols is suggesting the NHS could fund "magic mushrooms" as treatment for some mental health conditions.

    How are we supposed to afford that has she not heard austerity Reeves telling us that there's no magic mushroom tree!!

    Gets coat

    There’s actually a serious point here which doesn’t deserve such a careless throwaway remark.

    The potential curative mental health properties of Psilocybin is a genuine area of research. A psychiatrist friend of mine is researching it right now and, if you have not done so, you might try reading the best-seller 'Entangled Life' by Merlin Sheldrake.

    If I may say so, it’s fairly typical of the reactionary right to shout first and think later, if at all.
    BJO is reactionary right? That’s a shocker.

    It’s clear that Psilocybin is very helpful for treating certain mental conditions and should be rolled out as soon as possible especially for people with PTSD. Will ultimately save Society and the NHS a lot of money in the long run.
    Hurrah for Psilocybin

    Sounds like some on here would benefit from taking the Pis
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    edited April 6
    FF43 said:

    Reading books is the biggest threat to the American way of life according to the Trump crowd. The war against librarians continues as Louisiana makes it a criminal offence to join the American Library Association


    https://bookriot.com/louisiana-hb-777/

    Reading that more closely, it may be possible for a librarian to hold a personal membership.

    But a library won't be able to have an institutional membership, or take official part in any ALA programmes such as professional qualifications, which if it is anything like the UK equivalent completely screws up any serious career training and validation of university training.

    It won't even be able to subscribe to the professional journal, or spend ten dollars on the yearbook or cataloguing standards books or whatever.

    And nether staff nor institution would be able to go to *any* conference, even if not conducted by the ALA, where the ALA had a table or session for instance (for which it had paid a fee).
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,898
    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    Reading books is the biggest threat to the American way of life according to the Trump crowd. The war against librarians continues as Louisiana makes it a criminal offence to join the American Library Association

    https://bookriot.com/louisiana-hb-777/

    Actually the law has yet to pass - but it might, as a similar measure only narrowly failed in another state.
    Many such bills are have regularly been put forward by the GOP in the redder states as performative measures, which have no chance of passing. That has changed recently.
    They don't hold with no book learnin.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,951
    edited April 6

    Chris said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.

    These days it's often hard to tell whether people on the right are saying things out of sheer desperation, in the forlorn hope of finally hitting on something that might save their political skins.
    On reading the article, many of us live in 15-minute cities already in the sense there are local shops. London is often described as a collection of villages. What people object to is heavy-handed traffic restrictions so a minority of cyclists can ride wherever they like at the expense of people who depend on public transport.
    I've never seen a LTN or other restriction that worsens public transport access.
    Yes - a weird take. The idea of a bus running down a residential street (the kind that are inside LTNs) is laughable, even in cities with excellent bus services.

    If we ever get back to the halcyon days of 2010, when there were double the number of bus services and you still had some running around housing estates, bus gates are a tried and tested solution. Or you just consult with the local bus companies and ensure routes aren't disrupted.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    And an excellent piece from Janan Ganesh. Labour is the party of the public sector middle class as the Tories are the party of the elderly.

    The dividing line in labours time in office will be less productive public sector, with ever increasing demands, versus the private sector which is seen as a cash cow.

    https://www.ft.com/content/14697639-5ec7-40e7-a679-3ceef10e7529

    Traditionally, it’s the LibDems who are the party of the public sector middle class.
    Only briefly in the Blair years when Charles Kennedy was LD leader and arguably left of New Labour.

    Since the coalition the public sector middle class have been firmly Labour again overall
    Until GE 2024 when lots of the group will splinter off to Green or Independents IMO
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417

    Chris said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.

    These days it's often hard to tell whether people on the right are saying things out of sheer desperation, in the forlorn hope of finally hitting on something that might save their political skins.
    On reading the article, many of us live in 15-minute cities already in the sense there are local shops. London is often described as a collection of villages. What people object to is heavy-handed traffic restrictions so a minority of cyclists can ride wherever they like at the expense of people who depend on public transport.
    I've never seen a LTN or other restriction that worsens public transport access.
    Part of London where it takes two hours to get three miles thanks to LTNs
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/02/26/a-london-bus-takes-two-hours-travel-three-miles-20346969/
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,963
    Blatting it down here. Wish it would stop - makes finding our wayward cat harder. Also I need to go and shoot a Robotaxi video at some point this weekend.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,951
    Eabhal said:

    Chris said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.

    These days it's often hard to tell whether people on the right are saying things out of sheer desperation, in the forlorn hope of finally hitting on something that might save their political skins.
    On reading the article, many of us live in 15-minute cities already in the sense there are local shops. London is often described as a collection of villages. What people object to is heavy-handed traffic restrictions so a minority of cyclists can ride wherever they like at the expense of people who depend on public transport.
    I've never seen a LTN or other restriction that worsens public transport access.
    Yes - a weird take. The idea of a bus running down a residential street (the kind that are inside LTNs) is laughable, even in cities with excellent bus services.

    If we ever get back to the halcyon days of 2010, when there were double the number of bus services and you still had some running around housing estates, bus gates are a tried and tested solution. Or you just consult with the local bus companies and ensure routes aren't disrupted.
    In other bus news, Edinburgh's arms-length public bus company has returned us a nice £3.2 million dividend and 110 million journeys in 2023 :)
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited April 6

    Heathener said:

    I see Labour MP Charlotte Nichols is suggesting the NHS could fund "magic mushrooms" as treatment for some mental health conditions.

    How are we supposed to afford that has she not heard austerity Reeves telling us that there's no magic mushroom tree!!

    Gets coat

    There’s actually a serious point here which doesn’t deserve such a careless throwaway remark.

    The potential curative mental health properties of Psilocybin is a genuine area of research. A psychiatrist friend of mine is researching it right now and, if you have not done so, you might try reading the best-seller 'Entangled Life' by Merlin Sheldrake.

    If I may say so, it’s fairly typical of the reactionary right to shout first and think later, if at all.
    mate
    ????!!!

    I know it might seem strange to you but some females inhabit this space.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,109
    A

    Foxy said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.

    A lot of it is AstroTurf, but it only works by tapping into a couple of genuine fears.

    One is that geometry hates cars and cars kill the concept. If you have enough road and parking space for most adults to drive regularly, homes, businesses and nice things end up too far apart. Hence the doom loop that leads to most modern British developments- provide sufficient space for cars and everyone ends up depending on them. To make the sort of walkable communities (that price signals show that people want to live in), there isn't really space for lots of cars.

    Similarly, the standard British nice house (detached, two stories, largeish garden, double garage) is also pretty space hungry. To make 15 minutes work, you do need more terraces, mid rise and flats. Whilst they don't have to be crummy, too many of them have been shabbily built on the past.

    So it's a concept that works better on practice than in theory. It also says to the generation that went all-in on cars "you rather messed up, and the freedom you went for isn't so desirable after all." Even if you don't say that bit out loud, it's strongly implied. My experience is that boomers (for it is they) don't like that at all.

    (See also the "my car is essential and doesn't hurt anyone" stuff that accompanied ULEZ.)
    Yes, 15 minute cities is really a very conservative urban idea, based on traditional housing of a century ago, rather than modern lifestyles. New developments in the style can work, but need to be appealing. Decent public transport and underground parking are key I think.
    I like the idea of underground parking in theory, but do I trust a developer to design and build it properly, or would I expect a flash flood to destroy all the cars parked there as a near certainty?
    See all the French towns that do this.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,898

    Chris said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.

    These days it's often hard to tell whether people on the right are saying things out of sheer desperation, in the forlorn hope of finally hitting on something that might save their political skins.
    On reading the article, many of us live in 15-minute cities already in the sense there are local shops. London is often described as a collection of villages. What people object to is heavy-handed traffic restrictions so a minority of cyclists can ride wherever they like at the expense of people who depend on public transport.
    I've never seen a LTN or other restriction that worsens public transport access.
    Part of London where it takes two hours to get three miles thanks to LTNs
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/02/26/a-london-bus-takes-two-hours-travel-three-miles-20346969/
    Presumably if the congestion is down to the LTN and not the roadworks then the LTN will be abandoned at the end of the trial period. Traffic's always been pretty bad around there anyway: LTNs are often a response to motorists doing rat runs in residential streets owing to preexisting congestion on main roads. But they have to be carefully designed and if this one's not working it should be abandoned.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,240

    FF43 said:

    Reading books is the biggest threat to the American way of life according to the Trump crowd. The war against librarians continues as Louisiana makes it a criminal offence to join the American Library Association


    https://bookriot.com/louisiana-hb-777/

    There are lots of disturbing tendencies in the US right now, but the open warfare against libraries and librarians has to be one of the more disturbing, and it's also a clear sign of how anti-democracy is a core strategy of the GOP more widely, and not Trump alone.
    I fully agree with your comment but don't think there's a distinction between wider GOP and a Trump vehicle. Seems to me they are one and the same thing.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,240
    Eabhal said:

    Chris said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2024/apr/06/why-has-15-minute-city-taken-off-paris-toxic-idea-uk-carlos-moreno

    I've not paid much attention to the 15 minute city concept but when you read this you think what's not to like? I think it's already happening to some extent, there's a lot more work and social activity in a short walkable space in our neighbourhood than there used to be. I'd like to see this development continue. The traditional village is the ideal human settlement. It's quite a conservative idea in many ways, odd that people on the right resist it; it makes me wonder if there is a corporate AstroTurf element to the opposition.

    These days it's often hard to tell whether people on the right are saying things out of sheer desperation, in the forlorn hope of finally hitting on something that might save their political skins.
    On reading the article, many of us live in 15-minute cities already in the sense there are local shops. London is often described as a collection of villages. What people object to is heavy-handed traffic restrictions so a minority of cyclists can ride wherever they like at the expense of people who depend on public transport.
    I've never seen a LTN or other restriction that worsens public transport access.
    Yes - a weird take. The idea of a bus running down a residential street (the kind that are inside LTNs) is laughable, even in cities with excellent bus services.

    If we ever get back to the halcyon days of 2010, when there were double the number of bus services and you still had some running around housing estates, bus gates are a tried and tested solution. Or you just consult with the local bus companies and ensure routes aren't disrupted.
    Buses are great. With a relatively small subsidy intelligently applied you can create a good transport network.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Heathener said:

    I see Labour MP Charlotte Nichols is suggesting the NHS could fund "magic mushrooms" as treatment for some mental health conditions.

    How are we supposed to afford that has she not heard austerity Reeves telling us that there's no magic mushroom tree!!

    Gets coat

    There’s actually a serious point here which doesn’t deserve such a careless throwaway remark.

    The potential curative mental health properties of Psilocybin is a genuine area of research. A psychiatrist friend of mine is researching it right now and, if you have not done so, you might try reading the best-seller 'Entangled Life' by Merlin Sheldrake.

    If I may say so, it’s fairly typical of the reactionary right to shout first and think later, if at all.
    That's a brilliant book and really opened up the subject for me. Mushrooms are a big part of our diet, and we've started growing our own Lion's Mane and Oysters.
    Have you watched his documentary?
    Oooh no I haven’t but thanks so much for the tip. I will do so this weekend. I loved the book.
This discussion has been closed.