I was skim reading the...... altercation............ between CorrectHorseBattery and Barty Roberts last night.
I must admit I'm somewhat in CHB's favour here. Israel has gone far to far with its response to 7th October. Their is no justification to destroying aid convoys and killing aid workers. And I don't believe them when they say it was an accident. It wasn't, and they know it.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we will all agree on.
No. We all don't.
OK, a fair point.
I'll reconfirm.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we all ( except @Dura_Ace ) agree on.
Talk is cheap, you say that Hamas must be destroyed but aren't willing to see anything actually done to see it done.
If you believe they must be destroyed, then whatever it takes is appropriate.
If you're not prepared to see whatever it takes done then self-evidently you don't actually believe they must be destroyed.
Whatever it takes? Exterminate the civilian population of Gaza? Nuke Doha to take out the leadership?
Hamas is a terrorist group - it cannot and will not be destroyed by conventional military actions like the one the Israelis are currently undertaking.
Why not?
Countless terrorist groups have been destroyed by conventional military actions down the years.
Well lets see, the IRA? Islamic state? Hezbollah? Abu Sayyaf? Or to go a bit further back, Eoka? The FLN? Mau mau? The OAS? None of these were defeated by a conventional military campaign.
There are many, many, many more that have been defeated by conventional military campaigns, those are just a few former big name ones from my lifetime alone that have been defeated.
I was skim reading the...... altercation............ between CorrectHorseBattery and Barty Roberts last night.
I must admit I'm somewhat in CHB's favour here. Israel has gone far to far with its response to 7th October. Their is no justification to destroying aid convoys and killing aid workers. And I don't believe them when they say it was an accident. It wasn't, and they know it.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we will all agree on.
No. We all don't.
OK, a fair point.
I'll reconfirm.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we all ( except @Dura_Ace ) agree on.
Talk is cheap, you say that Hamas must be destroyed but aren't willing to see anything actually done to see it done.
If you believe they must be destroyed, then whatever it takes is appropriate.
If you're not prepared to see whatever it takes done then self-evidently you don't actually believe they must be destroyed.
Whatever it takes? Exterminate the civilian population of Gaza? Nuke Doha to take out the leadership?
Hamas is a terrorist group - it cannot and will not be destroyed by conventional military actions like the one the Israelis are currently undertaking.
Why not?
Countless terrorist groups have been destroyed by conventional military actions down the years.
Well lets see, the IRA? Islamic state? Hezbollah? Abu Sayyaf? Or to go a bit further back, Eoka? The FLN? Mau mau? The OAS? None of these were defeated by a conventional military campaign.
The Tamil Tigers were defeated. Where are Tibet and South Vietnam on the map nowadays? Bangladesh won a war of independence from Pakistan.Things can be settled by military means.
Surely in South Vietnam the VietCong were disbanded by victory not defeat?
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Ohhhhh! Do we have 'visible to the naked eye' images back again?
It's entirely dependent on where and how you paste them in as far as I can tell:
- Attach your local image via Vanilla - easy, quick and too small to read. - Embed a link to a web image via PB.com - easy, quick* and big.
(*Provided you can find a URL to the image, if not you need to do what I do and put it on an image platform - I use imgur, other platforms are available.)
Who is the social media manager for Conservatives?
I mean the guy/girl is a unintentional comedy genius.
It's (somewhat) interesting to wonder why they posted it. The young'uns who use social media won't vote for them in any case, the old'uns won't ever see it. So... Is it just 'noise'? Bored SPAD's?
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Ohhhhh! Do we have 'visible to the naked eye' images back again?
As long as they're hyperlinked from the internet. They are still small if uploaded direct from your laptop or phone.
Well, that's... progress of a sort. Maybe one day the gods of Vanilla will allow 800x640 images like we're re-living the great days of the 1990s internet.
Who is the social media manager for Conservatives?
I mean the guy/girl is a unintentional comedy genius.
It's (somewhat) interesting to wonder why they posted it. The young'uns who use social media won't vote for them in any case, the old'uns won't ever see it. So... Is it just 'noise'? Bored SPAD's?
Isn't it just shit-posting?
The whole point is to distract, disrupt and confuse. Being shit is deliberate.
Gordon Brown made a speech when he introduced the 2010 Labour manifesto.
Everything he said came to pass.
Whatever you think about him, we'd have been better in every conceivable way had he remained in charge.
The Gordon Brown that unleashed the forces of hell on his own Chancellor for speaking the truth?
The Gordon Brown who hired people who smeared a grieving David Cameron?
That Gordon Brown?
Giant of a man though. Think everyone agrees on that.
Not me.
He is a large part for why I voted Conservative in 2010. He was a very poor PM, and only marginally better as Chancellor.
Good grief, look what you did! Your part in ushering in 14 years of stagnation, misrule and incompetence.
To be fair, it wasn't entirely my fault. A few others did too!
I supported the Coalition right through to the 2015 GE. The Tories only lost the plot after they no longer had the Lib Dems bringing sanity to the table. Vince Cable being the only really poor LD frontbencher.
That LibDem "sanity" included the insanity of refusing any discussion on an EU referendum. That allowed Farage to fill the vacuum and ultimately delivered Brexit. You must be so proud of that.
Given the mess the referendum got us into the LDs were proved 100% correct.
The right way to tackle the Brexit question in our parliamentary democracy would have been for a party or parties to have included a promise to Brexit in their manifest and win a majority to implement it.
At last, something I can agree with Michael Gove on: “My single piece of advice to any future PM is never, ever have a referendum on anything.”
I was skim reading the...... altercation............ between CorrectHorseBattery and Barty Roberts last night.
I must admit I'm somewhat in CHB's favour here. Israel has gone far to far with its response to 7th October. Their is no justification to destroying aid convoys and killing aid workers. And I don't believe them when they say it was an accident. It wasn't, and they know it.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we will all agree on.
No. We all don't.
OK, a fair point.
I'll reconfirm.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we all ( except @Dura_Ace ) agree on.
Talk is cheap, you say that Hamas must be destroyed but aren't willing to see anything actually done to see it done.
If you believe they must be destroyed, then whatever it takes is appropriate.
If you're not prepared to see whatever it takes done then self-evidently you don't actually believe they must be destroyed.
Lives are cheaper than talk in Bartworld.
Exterminating half a million people to get rid of 30,000 Hamas operatives is a moral outrage. Remove the 30,000 by as clinical a means as is practicable with as little collateral as possible is fine.
You are a moral vacuum.
I must have missed the death toll passing half a million then. How many of the dead so far were Hamas?
Bart confirmed that was HIS acceptable total last night
I could be one Hamas operative, it could be 500,000. The term used by Bart was "whatever it takes". He also calculated his half a million by extrapolating the 250,000 dead in the second Gulf War and multiplying according to the severity of the foe.
I didn't say that's what I wanted to happen, I just drew a comparison between the quarter of a million dead that we were responsible for and said that this was a far more existential conflict.
Unless Tony Blair gets held to account for war crimes, I fail to see why what Israel did which is less damaging than what we did is a crime, but what we did is not.
I have no objection to Blair being tried at the Hague. We could do a 2 for 1 deal with Netanyahu.
I'd love to see the backstage bickering as to who gets the prime ego-slot. Does Tony decide that sloppy seconds is best? Or tripping up the glittering stairs of justice first - which plays best?
I'm now picturing this as an Morcambe and Wise sketch... We lost Glenda Jackson too soon.
I was skim reading the...... altercation............ between CorrectHorseBattery and Barty Roberts last night.
I must admit I'm somewhat in CHB's favour here. Israel has gone far to far with its response to 7th October. Their is no justification to destroying aid convoys and killing aid workers. And I don't believe them when they say it was an accident. It wasn't, and they know it.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we will all agree on.
No. We all don't.
OK, a fair point.
I'll reconfirm.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we all ( except @Dura_Ace ) agree on.
Talk is cheap, you say that Hamas must be destroyed but aren't willing to see anything actually done to see it done.
If you believe they must be destroyed, then whatever it takes is appropriate.
If you're not prepared to see whatever it takes done then self-evidently you don't actually believe they must be destroyed.
Whatever it takes? Exterminate the civilian population of Gaza? Nuke Doha to take out the leadership?
Hamas is a terrorist group - it cannot and will not be destroyed by conventional military actions like the one the Israelis are currently undertaking.
Why not?
Countless terrorist groups have been destroyed by conventional military actions down the years.
Well lets see, the IRA? Islamic state? Hezbollah? Abu Sayyaf? Or to go a bit further back, Eoka? The FLN? Mau mau? The OAS? None of these were defeated by a conventional military campaign.
The Tamil Tigers were defeated. Where are Tibet and South Vietnam on the map nowadays? Bangladesh won a war of independence from Pakistan.Things can be settled by military means.
Surely in South Vietnam the VietCong were disbanded by victory not defeat?
According to my contacts in Seattle's Vietnamese community, the average VC veteran hates the NORTH Vietnamese WAY wore than they ever hated the Americans back in the day.
Who is the social media manager for Conservatives?
I mean the guy/girl is a unintentional comedy genius.
It's (somewhat) interesting to wonder why they posted it. The young'uns who use social media won't vote for them in any case, the old'uns won't ever see it. So... Is it just 'noise'? Bored SPAD's?
Isn't it just shit-posting?
The whole point is to distract, disrupt and confuse. Being shit is deliberate.
Shitposting is about being a shit, not about being shit.
Who is the social media manager for Conservatives?
I mean the guy/girl is a unintentional comedy genius.
It's (somewhat) interesting to wonder why they posted it. The young'uns who use social media won't vote for them in any case, the old'uns won't ever see it. So... Is it just 'noise'? Bored SPAD's?
Isn't it just shit-posting?
The whole point is to distract, disrupt and confuse. Being shit is deliberate.
Yes, but it's shit shit-posting. The Palace and the FA will have to express displeasure, if only to prevent others doing the same.
And leaving aside the "You're the second best priest in Ireland" energy, a lot of the things in the image are things the government pointedly doesn't run.
Clever shit-posting is damn hard to fight. But this is just silly.
Who is the social media manager for Conservatives?
I mean the guy/girl is a unintentional comedy genius.
It's (somewhat) interesting to wonder why they posted it. The young'uns who use social media won't vote for them in any case, the old'uns won't ever see it. So... Is it just 'noise'? Bored SPAD's?
Isn't it just shit-posting?
The whole point is to distract, disrupt and confuse. Being shit is deliberate.
But distracting _who_? The tiny fraction of young people who wouldn't vote for them anyway? A few Oxbridge types who might? I can't help feeling it's just "Well, young Toby did PPE. Not very well, but we've got a slot for him to keep the Colonel busy so he doesn't pester me about his nephew at the association again..."
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Ohhhhh! Do we have 'visible to the naked eye' images back again?
As long as they're hyperlinked from the internet. They are still small if uploaded direct from your laptop or phone.
Well, that's... progress of a sort. Maybe one day the gods of Vanilla will allow 800x640 images like we're re-living the great days of the 1990s internet.
Sorry to say it's not really progress at all: images have always been normal sized on PB when pasted in as a URL.
I was skim reading the...... altercation............ between CorrectHorseBattery and Barty Roberts last night.
I must admit I'm somewhat in CHB's favour here. Israel has gone far to far with its response to 7th October. Their is no justification to destroying aid convoys and killing aid workers. And I don't believe them when they say it was an accident. It wasn't, and they know it.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we will all agree on.
No. We all don't.
OK, a fair point.
I'll reconfirm.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we all ( except @Dura_Ace ) agree on.
Talk is cheap, you say that Hamas must be destroyed but aren't willing to see anything actually done to see it done.
If you believe they must be destroyed, then whatever it takes is appropriate.
If you're not prepared to see whatever it takes done then self-evidently you don't actually believe they must be destroyed.
Whatever it takes? Exterminate the civilian population of Gaza? Nuke Doha to take out the leadership?
Hamas is a terrorist group - it cannot and will not be destroyed by conventional military actions like the one the Israelis are currently undertaking.
Why not?
Countless terrorist groups have been destroyed by conventional military actions down the years.
Well lets see, the IRA? Islamic state? Hezbollah? Abu Sayyaf? Or to go a bit further back, Eoka? The FLN? Mau mau? The OAS? None of these were defeated by a conventional military campaign.
The Tamil Tigers were defeated. Where are Tibet and South Vietnam on the map nowadays? Bangladesh won a war of independence from Pakistan.Things can be settled by military means.
Surely in South Vietnam the VietCong were disbanded by victory not defeat?
According to my contacts in Seattle's Vietnamese community, the average VC veteran hates the NORTH Vietnamese WAY wore than they ever hated the Americans back in the day.
I was skim reading the...... altercation............ between CorrectHorseBattery and Barty Roberts last night.
I must admit I'm somewhat in CHB's favour here. Israel has gone far to far with its response to 7th October. Their is no justification to destroying aid convoys and killing aid workers. And I don't believe them when they say it was an accident. It wasn't, and they know it.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we will all agree on.
No. We all don't.
OK, a fair point.
I'll reconfirm.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we all ( except @Dura_Ace ) agree on.
Talk is cheap, you say that Hamas must be destroyed but aren't willing to see anything actually done to see it done.
If you believe they must be destroyed, then whatever it takes is appropriate.
If you're not prepared to see whatever it takes done then self-evidently you don't actually believe they must be destroyed.
What about the rest of the armed resistance? Or is it just Hamas that gets your goat?
Reminder: any aim that requires genocide or other crimes against humanity is wrong. Aims do NOT justify means.
The real message of current events is that Zionism was always racist, ethnic-supremacist wank. Even senior retired judges are acknowledging by their actions that Jeremy Corbyn was right.
A pity that the letter signed by these judges makes an incorrect claim about what the ICJ found in the case brought by South Africa against Israel.
The letter says that on 26 January 2024 the ICJ “concluded that there was a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza”. This is repeated several times in the letter.
The words “plausible risk” appear nowhere in the ICJ's order. The letter misrepresents what the ICJ's judgment says and it is surprising and sloppy for such senior retired judges to sign a letter without carefully reading the judgment it refers to and making sure the letter they sign does not misrepresent it.
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
By the size of their respective images I am guessing the biggest donation was from the RAF, the second from the King and then maybe the FA followed by Laurence Stroll.
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
The title is rather absurd. Is it claiming that we are more powerful than China or the USA?.
It reminds me of hearing football fans singing "we are by far the best team the world has ever seen!" while watching the League 2 playoffs, only without the irony.
I was skim reading the...... altercation............ between CorrectHorseBattery and Barty Roberts last night.
I must admit I'm somewhat in CHB's favour here. Israel has gone far to far with its response to 7th October. Their is no justification to destroying aid convoys and killing aid workers. And I don't believe them when they say it was an accident. It wasn't, and they know it.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we will all agree on.
No. We all don't.
OK, a fair point.
I'll reconfirm.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we all ( except @Dura_Ace ) agree on.
Talk is cheap, you say that Hamas must be destroyed but aren't willing to see anything actually done to see it done.
If you believe they must be destroyed, then whatever it takes is appropriate.
If you're not prepared to see whatever it takes done then self-evidently you don't actually believe they must be destroyed.
Whatever it takes? Exterminate the civilian population of Gaza? Nuke Doha to take out the leadership?
Hamas is a terrorist group - it cannot and will not be destroyed by conventional military actions like the one the Israelis are currently undertaking.
Why not?
Countless terrorist groups have been destroyed by conventional military actions down the years.
Well lets see, the IRA? Islamic state? Hezbollah? Abu Sayyaf? Or to go a bit further back, Eoka? The FLN? Mau mau? The OAS? None of these were defeated by a conventional military campaign.
The Tamil Tigers were defeated. Where are Tibet and South Vietnam on the map nowadays? Bangladesh won a war of independence from Pakistan.Things can be settled by military means.
Surely in South Vietnam the VietCong were disbanded by victory not defeat?
According to my contacts in Seattle's Vietnamese community, the average VC veteran hates the NORTH Vietnamese WAY wore than they ever hated the Americans back in the day.
Surely the Mandy Rice-Davies quotation applies?
No. At least NOT according to my sources. But maybe you have (or know) better?
According to actual former VC, reunification of Vietnam meant that in the South, hordes of Northern apparatchiks came down and ruled the roost (as with post-Civil War "carpetbaggers" in Southern US) with the locals being left out in the (comparative) cold . . . where they could "whistle Dixie) for all the Northerners gave a pho(q).
Gordon Brown made a speech when he introduced the 2010 Labour manifesto.
Everything he said came to pass.
Whatever you think about him, we'd have been better in every conceivable way had he remained in charge.
The Gordon Brown that unleashed the forces of hell on his own Chancellor for speaking the truth?
The Gordon Brown who hired people who smeared a grieving David Cameron?
That Gordon Brown?
Giant of a man though. Think everyone agrees on that.
Not me.
He is a large part for why I voted Conservative in 2010. He was a very poor PM, and only marginally better as Chancellor.
Good grief, look what you did! Your part in ushering in 14 years of stagnation, misrule and incompetence.
To be fair, it wasn't entirely my fault. A few others did too!
I supported the Coalition right through to the 2015 GE. The Tories only lost the plot after they no longer had the Lib Dems bringing sanity to the table. Vince Cable being the only really poor LD frontbencher.
That LibDem "sanity" included the insanity of refusing any discussion on an EU referendum. That allowed Farage to fill the vacuum and ultimately delivered Brexit. You must be so proud of that.
Given the mess the referendum got us into the LDs were proved 100% correct.
The right way to tackle the Brexit question in our parliamentary democracy would have been for a party or parties to have included a promise to Brexit in their manifest and win a majority to implement it.
At last, something I can agree with Michael Gove on: “My single piece of advice to any future PM is never, ever have a referendum on anything.”
But the Lib Dems proposed a Brexit referendum even before Cameron.
I was skim reading the...... altercation............ between CorrectHorseBattery and Barty Roberts last night.
I must admit I'm somewhat in CHB's favour here. Israel has gone far to far with its response to 7th October. Their is no justification to destroying aid convoys and killing aid workers. And I don't believe them when they say it was an accident. It wasn't, and they know it.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we will all agree on.
No. We all don't.
OK, a fair point.
I'll reconfirm.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we all ( except @Dura_Ace ) agree on.
Talk is cheap, you say that Hamas must be destroyed but aren't willing to see anything actually done to see it done.
If you believe they must be destroyed, then whatever it takes is appropriate.
If you're not prepared to see whatever it takes done then self-evidently you don't actually believe they must be destroyed.
Whatever it takes? Exterminate the civilian population of Gaza? Nuke Doha to take out the leadership?
Hamas is a terrorist group - it cannot and will not be destroyed by conventional military actions like the one the Israelis are currently undertaking.
Why not?
Countless terrorist groups have been destroyed by conventional military actions down the years.
Well lets see, the IRA? Islamic state? Hezbollah? Abu Sayyaf? Or to go a bit further back, Eoka? The FLN? Mau mau? The OAS? None of these were defeated by a conventional military campaign.
The Tamil Tigers were defeated. Where are Tibet and South Vietnam on the map nowadays? Bangladesh won a war of independence from Pakistan.Things can be settled by military means.
Surely in South Vietnam the VietCong were disbanded by victory not defeat?
According to my contacts in Seattle's Vietnamese community, the average VC veteran hates the NORTH Vietnamese WAY wore than they ever hated the Americans back in the day.
Surely the Mandy Rice-Davies quotation applies?
No. At least NOT according to my sources. But maybe you have (or know) better?
According to actual former VC, reunification of Vietnam meant that in the South, hordes of Northern apparatchiks came down and ruled the roost (as with post-Civil War "carpetbaggers" in Southern US) with the locals being left out in the (comparative) cold . . . where they could "whistle Dixie) for all the Northerners gave a pho(q).
When I was in Vietnam the people seemed to mostly not be interested in the American War, though did show great respect to old soldiers and war memorials*. That seemed true both North and South. Perhaps Mandy Rice Davies once again applies.
* though strangely you would see a fair number wearing repro North Vietnamese army pith helmets, often in incongruous settings.
For clarification, note the during the Vietnam War, the Viet Cong (VC) were PRO-unification, thus ANTI-South Vietnam regime, and PRO-Communist allies of the "North Vietnam Army" (NVA) and opposed (to put it mildly) to USA forces and the Southern "Army of Vietnam" (ARVN)
So the conventional wisdom that RFK hurts the Democrats more than the Republicans might not hold?
Note that Donald Trump "denounced" RFKjr as a "radical Democrat".
Note this from NYT (March 27, 2024):
Former President Donald J. Trump attacked Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the independent presidential candidate, on Wednesday morning, casting Mr. Kennedy as a liberal Democrat in disguise while also seeming to back him as a spoiler for President Biden’s campaign.
Mr. Trump, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, pointed in particular to Mr. Kennedy’s views on climate change and the environment, writing on his social media site that Mr. Kennedy was more “radical Left” than Mr. Biden.
Yet he also professed support for Mr. Kennedy’s campaign, claiming that Mr. Kennedy would be likely to siphon votes from Mr. Biden. “I love that he is running!” Mr. Trump concluded.
Of course, the greatest PM is Tony Blair. I do wish he would come back.
Yet you get outraged by the deaths in Gaza yet defend the man responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths in Iraq.
The war the Tories supported?
Supported on a lie.
I suggest you read the Chilcot report.
The Chilcot inquiry has delivered a damning verdict on the decision by former prime minister Tony Blair to commit British troops to the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003. It says:
The UK chose to join the invasion before peaceful options had been exhausted
Chilcot is withering about Blair’s choice to join the US invasion. He says: “We have concluded that the UK chose to join the invasion of Iraq before the peaceful options for disarmament had been exhausted. Military action at that time was not a last resort.”
Blair deliberately exaggerated the threat posed by Saddam Hussein
Chilcot finds that Blair deliberately exaggerated the threat posed by the Iraqi regime as he sought to make the case for military action to MPs and the public in the buildup to the invasion in 2002 and 2003. The then prime minister disregarded warnings about the potential consequences of military action, and relied too heavily on his own beliefs, rather than the more nuanced judgments of the intelligence services. “The judgments about Iraq’s capabilities ... were presented with a certainty that was not justified,” the report says.
Yes, and if you want to track why the public has become increasingly distrustful of government it's a good starting place.
The idea of a British Prime Minister lying about a casus belli was unthinkable until that moment.
I agree, I supported the intervention believing in my naivety that a UK govt would not commit to war on a totally false premise.
Charlie Kennedy was right!
I don't know if I was "right" but I didn't expect the Iraq invasion to turn out well. I also didn't think Saddam had significant chemical weapons or other WMD.
On a similar analysis I don't think Covid was caused by a lab leak FWIW.
I was skim reading the...... altercation............ between CorrectHorseBattery and Barty Roberts last night.
I must admit I'm somewhat in CHB's favour here. Israel has gone far to far with its response to 7th October. Their is no justification to destroying aid convoys and killing aid workers. And I don't believe them when they say it was an accident. It wasn't, and they know it.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we will all agree on.
No. We all don't.
OK, a fair point.
I'll reconfirm.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we all ( except @Dura_Ace ) agree on.
Talk is cheap, you say that Hamas must be destroyed but aren't willing to see anything actually done to see it done.
If you believe they must be destroyed, then whatever it takes is appropriate.
If you're not prepared to see whatever it takes done then self-evidently you don't actually believe they must be destroyed.
Whatever it takes? Exterminate the civilian population of Gaza? Nuke Doha to take out the leadership?
Hamas is a terrorist group - it cannot and will not be destroyed by conventional military actions like the one the Israelis are currently undertaking.
Why not?
Countless terrorist groups have been destroyed by conventional military actions down the years.
Well lets see, the IRA? Islamic state? Hezbollah? Abu Sayyaf? Or to go a bit further back, Eoka? The FLN? Mau mau? The OAS? None of these were defeated by a conventional military campaign.
The Tamil Tigers were defeated. Where are Tibet and South Vietnam on the map nowadays? Bangladesh won a war of independence from Pakistan.Things can be settled by military means.
Surely in South Vietnam the VietCong were disbanded by victory not defeat?
According to my contacts in Seattle's Vietnamese community, the average VC veteran hates the NORTH Vietnamese WAY wore than they ever hated the Americans back in the day.
Surely the Mandy Rice-Davies quotation applies?
No. At least NOT according to my sources. But maybe you have (or know) better?
According to actual former VC, reunification of Vietnam meant that in the South, hordes of Northern apparatchiks came down and ruled the roost (as with post-Civil War "carpetbaggers" in Southern US) with the locals being left out in the (comparative) cold . . . where they could "whistle Dixie) for all the Northerners gave a pho(q).
When I was in Vietnam the people seemed to mostly not be interested in the American War, though did show great respect to old soldiers and war memorials*. That seemed true both North and South. Perhaps Mandy Rice Davies once again applies.
* though strangely you would see a fair number wearing repro North Vietnamese army pith helmets, often in incongruous settings.
Did you happen to ask, in the SOUTHERN part of VN, about who was running the place, especially at the local level?
That's what I'm talking about - which is NOT what you are talking about.
Apples and oranges . . . or rather rambutan and star fruit!
I was skim reading the...... altercation............ between CorrectHorseBattery and Barty Roberts last night.
I must admit I'm somewhat in CHB's favour here. Israel has gone far to far with its response to 7th October. Their is no justification to destroying aid convoys and killing aid workers. And I don't believe them when they say it was an accident. It wasn't, and they know it.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we will all agree on.
No. We all don't.
OK, a fair point.
I'll reconfirm.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we all ( except @Dura_Ace ) agree on.
Talk is cheap, you say that Hamas must be destroyed but aren't willing to see anything actually done to see it done.
If you believe they must be destroyed, then whatever it takes is appropriate.
If you're not prepared to see whatever it takes done then self-evidently you don't actually believe they must be destroyed.
Whatever it takes? Exterminate the civilian population of Gaza? Nuke Doha to take out the leadership?
Hamas is a terrorist group - it cannot and will not be destroyed by conventional military actions like the one the Israelis are currently undertaking.
Why not?
Countless terrorist groups have been destroyed by conventional military actions down the years.
Well lets see, the IRA? Islamic state? Hezbollah? Abu Sayyaf? Or to go a bit further back, Eoka? The FLN? Mau mau? The OAS? None of these were defeated by a conventional military campaign.
The Tamil Tigers were defeated. Where are Tibet and South Vietnam on the map nowadays? Bangladesh won a war of independence from Pakistan.Things can be settled by military means.
Surely in South Vietnam the VietCong were disbanded by victory not defeat?
According to my contacts in Seattle's Vietnamese community, the average VC veteran hates the NORTH Vietnamese WAY wore than they ever hated the Americans back in the day.
Surely the Mandy Rice-Davies quotation applies?
No. At least NOT according to my sources. But maybe you have (or know) better?
According to actual former VC, reunification of Vietnam meant that in the South, hordes of Northern apparatchiks came down and ruled the roost (as with post-Civil War "carpetbaggers" in Southern US) with the locals being left out in the (comparative) cold . . . where they could "whistle Dixie) for all the Northerners gave a pho(q).
When I was in Vietnam the people seemed to mostly not be interested in the American War, though did show great respect to old soldiers and war memorials*. That seemed true both North and South. Perhaps Mandy Rice Davies once again applies.
* though strangely you would see a fair number wearing repro North Vietnamese army pith helmets, often in incongruous settings.
Did you happen to ask, in the SOUTHERN part of VN, about who was running the place, especially at the local level?
That's what I'm talking about - which is NOT what you are talking about.
Apples and oranges . . . or rather rambutan and star fruit!
They seemed pretty happy with how the place was being run. Certainly a booming place, and a government keen on business and development. None of the reticence discussing things that I have seen in Myanmar or China.
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
The title is rather absurd. Is it claiming that we are more powerful than China or the USA?.
It reminds me of hearing football fans singing "we are by far the best team the world has ever seen!" while watching the League 2 playoffs, only without the irony.
On the other hand, in their tweet the Tories claim The UK is as strong as ever 🇬🇧
As strong as it was through the 19th century? Right.
Joe Biden talks absolute sense. Another “appeaser”
What Israel went through on 7 October was every bit as horrendous as 9/11.
After 9/11 America's response, the War on Terror, has to date led to approximately 937,000 direct deaths and a further 3.7 million indirect deaths. Figures taken from Wikipedia so feel free to disagree if you wish.
Israel's response has been restrained in comparison.
So the conventional wisdom that RFK hurts the Democrats more than the Republicans might not hold?
Note that Donald Trump "denounced" RFKjr as a "radical Democrat".
Note this from NYT (March 27, 2024):
Former President Donald J. Trump attacked Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the independent presidential candidate, on Wednesday morning, casting Mr. Kennedy as a liberal Democrat in disguise while also seeming to back him as a spoiler for President Biden’s campaign.
Mr. Trump, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, pointed in particular to Mr. Kennedy’s views on climate change and the environment, writing on his social media site that Mr. Kennedy was more “radical Left” than Mr. Biden.
Yet he also professed support for Mr. Kennedy’s campaign, claiming that Mr. Kennedy would be likely to siphon votes from Mr. Biden. “I love that he is running!” Mr. Trump concluded.
Amusing to reflect Trump, Kennedy and Biden all started out as Northern and fairly liberal Democrats.
Not one proper Republican has made it through a primary since Romney in 2012.
I was skim reading the...... altercation............ between CorrectHorseBattery and Barty Roberts last night.
I must admit I'm somewhat in CHB's favour here. Israel has gone far to far with its response to 7th October. Their is no justification to destroying aid convoys and killing aid workers. And I don't believe them when they say it was an accident. It wasn't, and they know it.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we will all agree on.
No. We all don't.
OK, a fair point.
I'll reconfirm.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we all ( except @Dura_Ace ) agree on.
Talk is cheap, you say that Hamas must be destroyed but aren't willing to see anything actually done to see it done.
If you believe they must be destroyed, then whatever it takes is appropriate.
If you're not prepared to see whatever it takes done then self-evidently you don't actually believe they must be destroyed.
Whatever it takes? Exterminate the civilian population of Gaza? Nuke Doha to take out the leadership?
Hamas is a terrorist group - it cannot and will not be destroyed by conventional military actions like the one the Israelis are currently undertaking.
Why not?
Countless terrorist groups have been destroyed by conventional military actions down the years.
Well lets see, the IRA? Islamic state? Hezbollah? Abu Sayyaf? Or to go a bit further back, Eoka? The FLN? Mau mau? The OAS? None of these were defeated by a conventional military campaign.
The Tamil Tigers were defeated. Where are Tibet and South Vietnam on the map nowadays? Bangladesh won a war of independence from Pakistan.Things can be settled by military means.
Surely in South Vietnam the VietCong were disbanded by victory not defeat?
According to my contacts in Seattle's Vietnamese community, the average VC veteran hates the NORTH Vietnamese WAY wore than they ever hated the Americans back in the day.
Surely the Mandy Rice-Davies quotation applies?
No. At least NOT according to my sources. But maybe you have (or know) better?
According to actual former VC, reunification of Vietnam meant that in the South, hordes of Northern apparatchiks came down and ruled the roost (as with post-Civil War "carpetbaggers" in Southern US) with the locals being left out in the (comparative) cold . . . where they could "whistle Dixie) for all the Northerners gave a pho(q).
When I was in Vietnam the people seemed to mostly not be interested in the American War, though did show great respect to old soldiers and war memorials*. That seemed true both North and South. Perhaps Mandy Rice Davies once again applies.
* though strangely you would see a fair number wearing repro North Vietnamese army pith helmets, often in incongruous settings.
Did you happen to ask, in the SOUTHERN part of VN, about who was running the place, especially at the local level?
That's what I'm talking about - which is NOT what you are talking about.
Apples and oranges . . . or rather rambutan and star fruit!
They seemed pretty happy with how the place was being run. Certainly a booming place, and a government keen on business and development. None of the reticence discussing things that I have seen in Myanmar or China.
For what it's worth, my main source is a fellow married to a Vietnamese woman, who has gotten an earful about Northern dominance over Southerners. From her AND from his numerous in-laws in the USA today PLUS those still in Vietnam.
Not sure you have equivalent frame of reference? Or WTF that China or Myanmar have to do with it?
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
The title is rather absurd. Is it claiming that we are more powerful than China or the USA?.
It reminds me of hearing football fans singing "we are by far the best team the world has ever seen!" while watching the League 2 playoffs, only without the irony.
On the other hand, in their tweet the Tories claim The UK is as strong as ever 🇬🇧
As strong as it was through the 19th century? Right.
Actually I think the UK is probably stronger than 19th century Britain. In a scifi war between 21st century Britain and 19th century Britain, I'd back 21st century Britain to win. We could nuke the shit out of 19th century Britain, bomb the shit out of it and so on and so forth.
The difference between 19th century and today isn't that we've gone backwards, its that the rest of the world has leapt that much more forwards.
Its 21st century China I wouldn't want to fight, not 19th century Britain.
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
The title is rather absurd. Is it claiming that we are more powerful than China or the USA?.
It reminds me of hearing football fans singing "we are by far the best team the world has ever seen!" while watching the League 2 playoffs, only without the irony.
On the other hand, in their tweet the Tories claim The UK is as strong as ever 🇬🇧
As strong as it was through the 19th century? Right.
Actually I think the UK is probably stronger than 19th century Britain. In a scifi war between 21st century Britain and 19th century Britain, I'd back 21st century Britain to win. We could nuke the shit out of 19th century Britain, bomb the shit out of it and so on and so forth.
The difference between 19th century and today isn't that we've gone backwards, its that the rest of the world has leapt that much more forwards.
Its 21st century China I wouldn't want to fight, not 19th century Britain.
Right. So you need time travel to make sense of the CCHQ tweet. Fair enough.
But @BartholomewRoberts you must conclude Biden is an appeaser, as he has said exactly what I said.
I haven't seen what he said, but if you are right then yes he is.
As I said to you the other night, I think he's got no solutions and is pandering to voters like you, safe in the knowledge that he's not in charge and will quite rightly be ignored.
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
What the actual fuck. The social media man is totally bananas. Can they really be this rubbish? Oh... They can.
I seriously think there may be a Labour agent in CCHQ.
Its WAAAAAY better than that.
These Tory wazzocks genuinely think that what they are doing is brilliant. Fantastic cut through messaging to their voter base. Second Best country. Massive selling point.
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
The title is rather absurd. Is it claiming that we are more powerful than China or the USA?.
It reminds me of hearing football fans singing "we are by far the best team the world has ever seen!" while watching the League 2 playoffs, only without the irony.
On the other hand, in their tweet the Tories claim The UK is as strong as ever 🇬🇧
As strong as it was through the 19th century? Right.
Actually I think the UK is probably stronger than 19th century Britain. In a scifi war between 21st century Britain and 19th century Britain, I'd back 21st century Britain to win. We could nuke the shit out of 19th century Britain, bomb the shit out of it and so on and so forth.
The difference between 19th century and today isn't that we've gone backwards, its that the rest of the world has leapt that much more forwards.
Its 21st century China I wouldn't want to fight, not 19th century Britain.
Right. So you need time travel to make sense of the CCHQ tweet. Fair enough.
You only need David Cameron's maxim to make sense of the CCHQ tweet.
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
The title is rather absurd. Is it claiming that we are more powerful than China or the USA?.
It reminds me of hearing football fans singing "we are by far the best team the world has ever seen!" while watching the League 2 playoffs, only without the irony.
'Don't talk down our country', says the party which recently published a video portraying its capital city as a fallen, crime-ridden hellhole, in which it's no longer safe to leave your home
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
What the actual fuck. The social media man is totally bananas. Can they really be this rubbish? Oh... They can.
I seriously think there may be a Labour agent in CCHQ.
Its WAAAAAY better than that.
These Tory wazzocks genuinely think that what they are doing is brilliant. Fantastic cut through messaging to their voter base. Second Best country. Massive selling point.
Except their voter base can barely use their hearing aids never mind log in to X.
(One of the other data pointing towards "this is worse than 1997". Then, there were some competent people around. This time, that's much less obvious. This also has implications for what happens in the rest of the decade.)
AP (via Seattle Times) - No Labels won’t run a third-party campaign after trying to recruit a centrist presidential candidate
The No Labels group said Thursday it will not field a presidential candidate in November after strategists for the bipartisan organization failed to attract a high-profile centrist willing to seize on the widespread dissatisfaction with President Joe Biden and Donald Trump.
“No Labels has always said we would only offer our ballot line to a ticket if we could identify candidates with a credible path to winning the White House,” Nancy Jacobson, the group’s CEO, said in a statement sent out to allies. “No such candidates emerged, so the responsible course of action is for us to stand down.”
The unexpected announcement further cements the general election matchup between the two unpopular major party candidates, Biden and Trump, leaving anti-vaccine activist Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as the only prominent outsider still seeking the presidency. Kennedy said this week that he had collected enough signatures to qualify for the fall ballot in in five states. . . .
SSI - Good news for Biden, bad news for Trump. Seeing as how a "centrist" POTUS candidate would draw votes from former rather than latter.
Michael Gove has admitted that he showed “moral cowardice” by failing to be upfront with David Cameron about his plans to play a leading role in the Brexit referendum campaign.
In an interview for his Political Currency podcast George Osborne, the former chancellor, said Gove had told Cameron in the Downing Street plan that he would “not play a prominent role in the campaign”. “Did you deceive David?” Osborne asked. “He certainly felt betrayed.”
Gove, who is now the levelling up secretary, said that while he did not believe he had deceived Cameron he ended up “going further than you’d imagine or anticipated at the beginning of the campaign”, adding: “I didn’t want to take part in the debates, the TV shows that I ultimately took part in or play a prominent role.”
However, he said that during the campaign he was urged by Dominic Cummings, who oversaw the Vote Leave campaign, and others to take a more prominent role with the argument: “If you don’t do this, they’ll have Farage on.” He said he was told that he would let people down if he failed to do so. “I didn’t believe I deceived, but as I mentioned, I do think that I could have been clearer earlier.
“And I think that was an example of on the one hand, cowardice on my part, moral cowardice … on the other hand, a recognition that perhaps there’s this feeling in politics, perhaps something will turn up, perhaps this moment won’t come when we have to make that decision,” he said. “But I think David entirely fairly, should have expected me to have been more upfront earlier.”
Someone has started realising what the first line in their obituary is going to be.
He does seem to be the first leading Brexiteer to admit that the Brexit referendum was a mistake.
There is a lot to be said for this but how do you address an issue like Scottish Independence?? Is he really saying that a majority government in Holyrood had the right to take Scotland out of the Union when the majority had rejected such a policy? Surely not.
What I would agree is that referendums should be extremely rare beasts but I think there isn't a politician alive who hasn't realised this (except possibly the Taoisigh of Ireland who has since paid the price).
They should be the absolute opposite. They should happen frequently, on all sorts of issues, and the powers that be should accept the result and govern well within its new paradigm. That's what Switzerland does, and that's why they are them and we are us.
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
The title is rather absurd. Is it claiming that we are more powerful than China or the USA?.
It reminds me of hearing football fans singing "we are by far the best team the world has ever seen!" while watching the League 2 playoffs, only without the irony.
On the other hand, in their tweet the Tories claim The UK is as strong as ever 🇬🇧
As strong as it was through the 19th century? Right.
Actually I think the UK is probably stronger than 19th century Britain. In a scifi war between 21st century Britain and 19th century Britain, I'd back 21st century Britain to win. We could nuke the shit out of 19th century Britain, bomb the shit out of it and so on and so forth.
The difference between 19th century and today isn't that we've gone backwards, its that the rest of the world has leapt that much more forwards.
Its 21st century China I wouldn't want to fight, not 19th century Britain.
Would you rather fight a horse sized chicken or a hundred chicken sized horses?
AP (via Seattle Times) - No Labels won’t run a third-party campaign after trying to recruit a centrist presidential candidate
The No Labels group said Thursday it will not field a presidential candidate in November after strategists for the bipartisan organization failed to attract a high-profile centrist willing to seize on the widespread dissatisfaction with President Joe Biden and Donald Trump.
“No Labels has always said we would only offer our ballot line to a ticket if we could identify candidates with a credible path to winning the White House,” Nancy Jacobson, the group’s CEO, said in a statement sent out to allies. “No such candidates emerged, so the responsible course of action is for us to stand down.”
The unexpected announcement further cements the general election matchup between the two unpopular major party candidates, Biden and Trump, leaving anti-vaccine activist Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as the only prominent outsider still seeking the presidency. Kennedy said this week that he had collected enough signatures to qualify for the fall ballot in in five states. . . .
SSI - Good news for Biden, bad news for Trump. Seeing as how a "centrist" POTUS candidate would draw votes from former rather than latter.
Gordon Brown made a speech when he introduced the 2010 Labour manifesto.
Everything he said came to pass.
Whatever you think about him, we'd have been better in every conceivable way had he remained in charge.
The Gordon Brown that unleashed the forces of hell on his own Chancellor for speaking the truth?
The Gordon Brown who hired people who smeared a grieving David Cameron?
That Gordon Brown?
Giant of a man though. Think everyone agrees on that.
Not me.
He is a large part for why I voted Conservative in 2010. He was a very poor PM, and only marginally better as Chancellor.
Good grief, look what you did! Your part in ushering in 14 years of stagnation, misrule and incompetence.
To be fair, it wasn't entirely my fault. A few others did too!
I supported the Coalition right through to the 2015 GE. The Tories only lost the plot after they no longer had the Lib Dems bringing sanity to the table. Vince Cable being the only really poor LD frontbencher.
That LibDem "sanity" included the insanity of refusing any discussion on an EU referendum. That allowed Farage to fill the vacuum and ultimately delivered Brexit. You must be so proud of that.
I wonder what the LibDems could have secured with the political capital they wasted on a referendum on changing the voting system which was doomed to fail?
In hindsight, we should've gone for Lords reform and STV for local elections.
The Lincoln Project @ProjectLincoln · 1h No Labels is OUT. Today’s huge win is a testament to the strength of the pro-democracy coalition we've amassed since 2020. No Labels is a dark money operation created to throw the election to Trump… and failed. But there’s still more work to do.
I was skim reading the...... altercation............ between CorrectHorseBattery and Barty Roberts last night.
I must admit I'm somewhat in CHB's favour here. Israel has gone far to far with its response to 7th October. Their is no justification to destroying aid convoys and killing aid workers. And I don't believe them when they say it was an accident. It wasn't, and they know it.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we will all agree on.
No. We all don't.
OK, a fair point.
I'll reconfirm.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we all ( except @Dura_Ace ) agree on.
Talk is cheap, you say that Hamas must be destroyed but aren't willing to see anything actually done to see it done.
If you believe they must be destroyed, then whatever it takes is appropriate.
If you're not prepared to see whatever it takes done then self-evidently you don't actually believe they must be destroyed.
Whatever it takes? Exterminate the civilian population of Gaza? Nuke Doha to take out the leadership?
Hamas is a terrorist group - it cannot and will not be destroyed by conventional military actions like the one the Israelis are currently undertaking.
Why not?
Countless terrorist groups have been destroyed by conventional military actions down the years.
Well lets see, the IRA? Islamic state? Hezbollah? Abu Sayyaf? Or to go a bit further back, Eoka? The FLN? Mau mau? The OAS? None of these were defeated by a conventional military campaign.
The Malayan insurgency is the classic example of how a military campaign alone did not work.
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
The title is rather absurd. Is it claiming that we are more powerful than China or the USA?.
It reminds me of hearing football fans singing "we are by far the best team the world has ever seen!" while watching the League 2 playoffs, only without the irony.
'Don't talk down our country', says the party which recently published a video portraying its capital city as a fallen, crime-ridden hellhole, in which it's no longer safe to leave your home
I was skim reading the...... altercation............ between CorrectHorseBattery and Barty Roberts last night.
I must admit I'm somewhat in CHB's favour here. Israel has gone far to far with its response to 7th October. Their is no justification to destroying aid convoys and killing aid workers. And I don't believe them when they say it was an accident. It wasn't, and they know it.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we will all agree on.
No. We all don't.
OK, a fair point.
I'll reconfirm.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we all ( except @Dura_Ace ) agree on.
If must means accepting Barty's half a million dead, then no, we can't.
This is a statement taken out of context. On my original post I caveated that by questioning Bart's collateral value to achieve his aim. I was specific in that I last night asked Bart for numbers. He declined and simply retorted with "whatever it takes".
Here's the context.
https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4736911/#Comment_4736911 BartholomewRoberts Mexicanpete said: » show previous quotes 1. Bollocks it is! 2. At what cost in lives, give me a number (whatever it takes isn't a number). 3. I said pushing bastards out of windows and the like. Have you never seen Munich? 4. 1. Yes it is. 2. Whatever it takes. The death toll of the Iraq War was over a quarter of a million, and this is an order of magnitude more justified than that war, so lets say double that half a million? If that's what it takes? 3. Real life isn't a James Bond movie. Pushing a few people out of windows won't end Hamas.
Thank you. I had lost interest after "whatever it takes" and ignored the value figure and gone to bed.
Half a million is good to know. So we are at circa 10% down so far.
Life must be cheap on Merseyside.
Top marks for reading to the end.
"Official" death toll (possibly exaggerated) is around 32,000, and of that, between a quarter and a half (depending on whether you believe Israel or Hamas - and potentially the difference is who counts as a terrorist and who doesn't) are Hamas members.
Presumably the half million was meant as civilians, and Hamas members do not count towards it.
So no, we are nowhere near "10% down so far" - more like 4%. And IDF operational efficiency is getting better as the war goes on - for example, there were no civilian deaths recorded during the recent Shifa hospital operation. And all the heavy bombing has been done for a while - you'll notice the death toll has remained fairly static for some time. There is no way the death toll ends up anywhere near half a million.
Considering the level of destruction of buildings and of social and health infrastructure that 32 000 deaths is likely to be a significant underestimate.
Considering the identity of the people providing the number, it's likely to be a significant overestimate. And again, you need to deduct the terrorists, since Hamas is including them in the total.
The only thing I know for certain about the actual number of civilians dead, is you have no clue.
As someone else has already posted, Hamas’ best recruiting sergeant ATM is Netanyahu!
Yes and all very predictable, and the reason for the Hamas attack in the first place.
Israel of course had (and has) the right to defend itself when attacked. But that is different to it being wise or sensible to have acted as they have done. Just because you have a right to do something doesn't make it right to enforce it.
The more interesting question is what would have been wise and sensible? Hamas' clear strategy was to put Israel in Zugzwang such that it only had some pretty terrible options. Either a war Hamas would try and ensure cost as many Palestinian lives as to break any international support or accept a terror state on your border with the express intent of wiping you out, with increasingly sophisticated military capabilities funded by another state that believes the same thing.
We know what's happening is horrific. But the deeper question is what different paths there are, and what trade-offs a) one can accept yourself and b) Israelis could or should accept.
I think it's unhelpful to paint this in such stark either/or terms. Israel could be occupying Gaza militarily, while being more helpful on aid and less indiscriminate in blowing stuff up. Israel could (and should) stop trying to annex the West Bank bit by bit. Israel could kick politicians who favour ethnic cleansing of Gaza out of government. It's perfectly possible for Israel to respond strongly to Hamas without behaving as they are now.
Much of this is true in terms of behaviour - particularly the West Bank and Ben Gvir. But it doesn't change the crude logic of the war - nor would it save vast numbers of lives.
Which is why it's not just the foul Israeli right that support the war but the general population who also want Netanyahu and his cronies (and will kick them out when get a vote) out for mismanaging things in the first place and continuing to.
If you replaced Netanyahu with Yair Lapid tomorrow there would not be an immediate ceasefire. Meanwhile, the West Bank will take *a long* time to sort out. Vital, but not part of the immediate Hamas-inspired crisis.
And it is important to put it in such stark terms because that is how the Israelis view it. As existential. Certainly after 7 October, they taken Hamas' rhetoric about wiping out Jews from the Middle East and that they'd do 7 October again and again quite literally and with justification. And for that matter Iran's and its intention to keep arming them.
Therefore *any* serious effort at peace that goes beyond grandstanding and Western politicians being able to feel good needs to take that into account and offer alternative options to Israel continuing until it has destroyed Hamas, and Hamas trying to ensure as many Palestinians as possible die before they are destroyed.
So you're saying that the Israel/Palestine situation will be difficult to sort out? I think we knew that.
Israeli politics has shifted rightwards over the years, to a more pro-settler, pro-annexation, anti-2 state solution position. There's no reason why it can't shift back over coming years... but, sure, it will take years. Getting rid of (and preferably locking up) Bibi will help!
Western grandstanding is largely pointless, but diplomatic pressure from the West, specifically the US, does matter.
I think the demographics of Israel point to an ever more radical position. Haredi have big families (hence why Liberal Israelis resent them being exempt from military service). Similarly the schools are controlled by the orthodox, so the children of secular Israelis get indoctrinated from a young age. This article from the New Yorker gives a picture of what is going on.
So we have a self-radicalising state, and every sign of that accelerating. While secular liberal Israel still exists, it is being phased out. Its a mirror image of the self radicalisation of the Palestinians and other neighbours. The secular, nationalist PLO supplanted by Hamas for example.
It doesn't bode well for future peace from either side.
There has never been peace in the middle east, there never will be peace in the middle east. Doesn't matter what the us, uk, eu or even pendle council say or do....its not happening so just leave them to it
The Middle East was more peaceful than Europe in the 19th century. And the 18th.
Gordon Brown made a speech when he introduced the 2010 Labour manifesto.
Everything he said came to pass.
Whatever you think about him, we'd have been better in every conceivable way had he remained in charge.
The Gordon Brown that unleashed the forces of hell on his own Chancellor for speaking the truth?
The Gordon Brown who hired people who smeared a grieving David Cameron?
That Gordon Brown?
Giant of a man though. Think everyone agrees on that.
Nope.
Although perhaps I am being harsh about the man who abolished boom & bust and saved the world.
Gordon Brown was assumed to be a Titan because he was Taciturn. It's a Scottish trick we English fall for.
Brown was keen on PFI, which has been a huge failure.
Brown thought devolution would kill off the threat from the SNP. Can't have been more wrong there!
He also made the benefit system too complicated, with bad effects for many claimants.
Definitely no titan... if better than who followed!
Yes - Brown's reputation has recovered remarkably quickly - he made some mistakes but they pale into insignificance compared to the mistakes of his successors.
(One of the other data pointing towards "this is worse than 1997". Then, there were some competent people around. This time, that's much less obvious. This also has implications for what happens in the rest of the decade.)
Actually, being serious for a moment, if there was a Labour Party plant in CCHQ that would constitute a BIG political scandal.
(OTOH if it was just a Labour supporter who'd got through CCHQ vetting, that would constitute unsurprising Tory incompetence.)
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
The title is rather absurd. Is it claiming that we are more powerful than China or the USA?.
It reminds me of hearing football fans singing "we are by far the best team the world has ever seen!" while watching the League 2 playoffs, only without the irony.
On the other hand, in their tweet the Tories claim The UK is as strong as ever 🇬🇧
As strong as it was through the 19th century? Right.
Actually I think the UK is probably stronger than 19th century Britain. In a scifi war between 21st century Britain and 19th century Britain, I'd back 21st century Britain to win. We could nuke the shit out of 19th century Britain, bomb the shit out of it and so on and so forth.
The difference between 19th century and today isn't that we've gone backwards, its that the rest of the world has leapt that much more forwards.
Its 21st century China I wouldn't want to fight, not 19th century Britain.
Would you rather fight a horse sized chicken or a hundred chicken sized horses?
A horse size chicken marinated in peri peri sauce.
(One of the other data pointing towards "this is worse than 1997". Then, there were some competent people around. This time, that's much less obvious. This also has implications for what happens in the rest of the decade.)
Actually, being serious for a moment, if there was a Labour Party plant in CCHQ that would constitute a BIG political scandal.
(OTOH if it was just a Labour supporter who'd got through CCHQ vetting, that would constitute unsurprising Tory incompetence.)
Applying Occam's Razor, plenty of evidence that today's Tories are perfectly incompetent, and do NOT need assist from Labour OR anyone else in order to screw themselves royally.
I was skim reading the...... altercation............ between CorrectHorseBattery and Barty Roberts last night.
I must admit I'm somewhat in CHB's favour here. Israel has gone far to far with its response to 7th October. Their is no justification to destroying aid convoys and killing aid workers. And I don't believe them when they say it was an accident. It wasn't, and they know it.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we will all agree on.
No. We all don't.
OK, a fair point.
I'll reconfirm.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we all ( except @Dura_Ace ) agree on.
If must means accepting Barty's half a million dead, then no, we can't.
This is a statement taken out of context. On my original post I caveated that by questioning Bart's collateral value to achieve his aim. I was specific in that I last night asked Bart for numbers. He declined and simply retorted with "whatever it takes".
Here's the context.
https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4736911/#Comment_4736911 BartholomewRoberts Mexicanpete said: » show previous quotes 1. Bollocks it is! 2. At what cost in lives, give me a number (whatever it takes isn't a number). 3. I said pushing bastards out of windows and the like. Have you never seen Munich? 4. 1. Yes it is. 2. Whatever it takes. The death toll of the Iraq War was over a quarter of a million, and this is an order of magnitude more justified than that war, so lets say double that half a million? If that's what it takes? 3. Real life isn't a James Bond movie. Pushing a few people out of windows won't end Hamas.
Thank you. I had lost interest after "whatever it takes" and ignored the value figure and gone to bed.
Half a million is good to know. So we are at circa 10% down so far.
Life must be cheap on Merseyside.
Top marks for reading to the end.
"Official" death toll (possibly exaggerated) is around 32,000, and of that, between a quarter and a half (depending on whether you believe Israel or Hamas - and potentially the difference is who counts as a terrorist and who doesn't) are Hamas members.
Presumably the half million was meant as civilians, and Hamas members do not count towards it.
So no, we are nowhere near "10% down so far" - more like 4%. And IDF operational efficiency is getting better as the war goes on - for example, there were no civilian deaths recorded during the recent Shifa hospital operation. And all the heavy bombing has been done for a while - you'll notice the death toll has remained fairly static for some time. There is no way the death toll ends up anywhere near half a million.
Considering the level of destruction of buildings and of social and health infrastructure that 32 000 deaths is likely to be a significant underestimate.
Considering the identity of the people providing the number, it's likely to be a significant overestimate. And again, you need to deduct the terrorists, since Hamas is including them in the total.
The only thing I know for certain about the actual number of civilians dead, is you have no clue.
As someone else has already posted, Hamas’ best recruiting sergeant ATM is Netanyahu!
Yes and all very predictable, and the reason for the Hamas attack in the first place.
Israel of course had (and has) the right to defend itself when attacked. But that is different to it being wise or sensible to have acted as they have done. Just because you have a right to do something doesn't make it right to enforce it.
The more interesting question is what would have been wise and sensible? Hamas' clear strategy was to put Israel in Zugzwang such that it only had some pretty terrible options. Either a war Hamas would try and ensure cost as many Palestinian lives as to break any international support or accept a terror state on your border with the express intent of wiping you out, with increasingly sophisticated military capabilities funded by another state that believes the same thing.
We know what's happening is horrific. But the deeper question is what different paths there are, and what trade-offs a) one can accept yourself and b) Israelis could or should accept.
I think it's unhelpful to paint this in such stark either/or terms. Israel could be occupying Gaza militarily, while being more helpful on aid and less indiscriminate in blowing stuff up. Israel could (and should) stop trying to annex the West Bank bit by bit. Israel could kick politicians who favour ethnic cleansing of Gaza out of government. It's perfectly possible for Israel to respond strongly to Hamas without behaving as they are now.
Much of this is true in terms of behaviour - particularly the West Bank and Ben Gvir. But it doesn't change the crude logic of the war - nor would it save vast numbers of lives.
Which is why it's not just the foul Israeli right that support the war but the general population who also want Netanyahu and his cronies (and will kick them out when get a vote) out for mismanaging things in the first place and continuing to.
If you replaced Netanyahu with Yair Lapid tomorrow there would not be an immediate ceasefire. Meanwhile, the West Bank will take *a long* time to sort out. Vital, but not part of the immediate Hamas-inspired crisis.
And it is important to put it in such stark terms because that is how the Israelis view it. As existential. Certainly after 7 October, they taken Hamas' rhetoric about wiping out Jews from the Middle East and that they'd do 7 October again and again quite literally and with justification. And for that matter Iran's and its intention to keep arming them.
Therefore *any* serious effort at peace that goes beyond grandstanding and Western politicians being able to feel good needs to take that into account and offer alternative options to Israel continuing until it has destroyed Hamas, and Hamas trying to ensure as many Palestinians as possible die before they are destroyed.
So you're saying that the Israel/Palestine situation will be difficult to sort out? I think we knew that.
Israeli politics has shifted rightwards over the years, to a more pro-settler, pro-annexation, anti-2 state solution position. There's no reason why it can't shift back over coming years... but, sure, it will take years. Getting rid of (and preferably locking up) Bibi will help!
Western grandstanding is largely pointless, but diplomatic pressure from the West, specifically the US, does matter.
I think the demographics of Israel point to an ever more radical position. Haredi have big families (hence why Liberal Israelis resent them being exempt from military service). Similarly the schools are controlled by the orthodox, so the children of secular Israelis get indoctrinated from a young age. This article from the New Yorker gives a picture of what is going on.
So we have a self-radicalising state, and every sign of that accelerating. While secular liberal Israel still exists, it is being phased out. Its a mirror image of the self radicalisation of the Palestinians and other neighbours. The secular, nationalist PLO supplanted by Hamas for example.
It doesn't bode well for future peace from either side.
There has never been peace in the middle east, there never will be peace in the middle east. Doesn't matter what the us, uk, eu or even pendle council say or do....its not happening so just leave them to it
Never say never. After all, anyone looking at Europe in 1945 would have struggled to see a peaceful future, as opposed to an alternation of outright war and growling.
What it does need is the right pair of leaders. Think de Klerk and Mandela, or Trimble and Adams. Might not happen soon, might not happen in our lifetime. But even monolithic cultures aren't totally unchanging.
But both sides desiring peace rather than absolute victory is the only thing that has ever really worked in the long run.
No there is a difference, europeans never believed for example that french people shouldn't exist. The israelis believe the palestinians shouldnt and the palestinians believe jews shouldn't. The european wars of the twentieth century were about control mostly not wiping out the enemy
Some Europeans definitely believed some other Europeans shouldn't exist in the late 1930s and early 1940s.
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
The title is rather absurd. Is it claiming that we are more powerful than China or the USA?.
It reminds me of hearing football fans singing "we are by far the best team the world has ever seen!" while watching the League 2 playoffs, only without the irony.
On the other hand, in their tweet the Tories claim The UK is as strong as ever 🇬🇧
As strong as it was through the 19th century? Right.
Actually I think the UK is probably stronger than 19th century Britain. In a scifi war between 21st century Britain and 19th century Britain, I'd back 21st century Britain to win. We could nuke the shit out of 19th century Britain, bomb the shit out of it and so on and so forth.
The difference between 19th century and today isn't that we've gone backwards, its that the rest of the world has leapt that much more forwards.
Its 21st century China I wouldn't want to fight, not 19th century Britain.
Would you rather fight a horse sized chicken or a hundred chicken sized horses?
A horse size chicken marinated in peri peri sauce.
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
The title is rather absurd. Is it claiming that we are more powerful than China or the USA?.
It reminds me of hearing football fans singing "we are by far the best team the world has ever seen!" while watching the League 2 playoffs, only without the irony.
On the other hand, in their tweet the Tories claim The UK is as strong as ever 🇬🇧
As strong as it was through the 19th century? Right.
Actually I think the UK is probably stronger than 19th century Britain. In a scifi war between 21st century Britain and 19th century Britain, I'd back 21st century Britain to win. We could nuke the shit out of 19th century Britain, bomb the shit out of it and so on and so forth.
The difference between 19th century and today isn't that we've gone backwards, its that the rest of the world has leapt that much more forwards.
Its 21st century China I wouldn't want to fight, not 19th century Britain.
Would you rather fight a horse sized chicken or a hundred chicken sized horses?
A horse size chicken marinated in peri peri sauce.
Most immense Nando's ever.
Is it vegan??
Only a Vegan chicken - and a lot of growth hormones - could grow so large.
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
The title is rather absurd. Is it claiming that we are more powerful than China or the USA?.
It reminds me of hearing football fans singing "we are by far the best team the world has ever seen!" while watching the League 2 playoffs, only without the irony.
On the other hand, in their tweet the Tories claim The UK is as strong as ever 🇬🇧
As strong as it was through the 19th century? Right.
Actually I think the UK is probably stronger than 19th century Britain. In a scifi war between 21st century Britain and 19th century Britain, I'd back 21st century Britain to win. We could nuke the shit out of 19th century Britain, bomb the shit out of it and so on and so forth.
The difference between 19th century and today isn't that we've gone backwards, its that the rest of the world has leapt that much more forwards.
Its 21st century China I wouldn't want to fight, not 19th century Britain.
Would you rather fight a horse sized chicken or a hundred chicken sized horses?
A horse size chicken marinated in peri peri sauce.
Most immense Nando's ever.
Is it vegan??
I don't think a horse sized lump of tofu would put up much fight.
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
The title is rather absurd. Is it claiming that we are more powerful than China or the USA?.
It reminds me of hearing football fans singing "we are by far the best team the world has ever seen!" while watching the League 2 playoffs, only without the irony.
On the other hand, in their tweet the Tories claim The UK is as strong as ever 🇬🇧
As strong as it was through the 19th century? Right.
Actually I think the UK is probably stronger than 19th century Britain. In a scifi war between 21st century Britain and 19th century Britain, I'd back 21st century Britain to win. We could nuke the shit out of 19th century Britain, bomb the shit out of it and so on and so forth.
The difference between 19th century and today isn't that we've gone backwards, its that the rest of the world has leapt that much more forwards.
Its 21st century China I wouldn't want to fight, not 19th century Britain.
Would you rather fight a horse sized chicken or a hundred chicken sized horses?
A horse size chicken marinated in peri peri sauce.
Most immense Nando's ever.
Is it vegan??
I don't think a horse sized lump of tofu would put up much fight.
(One of the other data pointing towards "this is worse than 1997". Then, there were some competent people around. This time, that's much less obvious. This also has implications for what happens in the rest of the decade.)
Actually, being serious for a moment, if there was a Labour Party plant in CCHQ that would constitute a BIG political scandal.
(OTOH if it was just a Labour supporter who'd got through CCHQ vetting, that would constitute unsurprising Tory incompetence.)
Applying Occam's Razor, plenty of evidence that today's Tories are perfectly incompetent, and do NOT need assist from Labour OR anyone else in order to screw themselves royally.
Indeed. At this rate a Labour plant would probably inadvertently improve their output.
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
The title is rather absurd. Is it claiming that we are more powerful than China or the USA?.
It reminds me of hearing football fans singing "we are by far the best team the world has ever seen!" while watching the League 2 playoffs, only without the irony.
On the other hand, in their tweet the Tories claim The UK is as strong as ever 🇬🇧
As strong as it was through the 19th century? Right.
Actually I think the UK is probably stronger than 19th century Britain. In a scifi war between 21st century Britain and 19th century Britain, I'd back 21st century Britain to win. We could nuke the shit out of 19th century Britain, bomb the shit out of it and so on and so forth.
The difference between 19th century and today isn't that we've gone backwards, its that the rest of the world has leapt that much more forwards.
Its 21st century China I wouldn't want to fight, not 19th century Britain.
Would you rather fight a horse sized chicken or a hundred chicken sized horses?
A horse size chicken marinated in peri peri sauce.
Most immense Nando's ever.
Is it vegan??
I prefer to eat vegan chickens over carnivorous chickens yes.
Animal-based food is good, corn-fed chicken, grass-fed beef ...
I was skim reading the...... altercation............ between CorrectHorseBattery and Barty Roberts last night.
I must admit I'm somewhat in CHB's favour here. Israel has gone far to far with its response to 7th October. Their is no justification to destroying aid convoys and killing aid workers. And I don't believe them when they say it was an accident. It wasn't, and they know it.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we will all agree on.
No. We all don't.
OK, a fair point.
I'll reconfirm.
Barty's point is that Hamas must be destroyed, which I think we all ( except @Dura_Ace ) agree on.
Talk is cheap, you say that Hamas must be destroyed but aren't willing to see anything actually done to see it done.
If you believe they must be destroyed, then whatever it takes is appropriate.
If you're not prepared to see whatever it takes done then self-evidently you don't actually believe they must be destroyed.
What about the rest of the armed resistance? Or is it just Hamas that gets your goat?
Reminder: any aim that requires genocide or other crimes against humanity is wrong. Aims do NOT justify means.
The real message of current events is that Zionism was always racist, ethnic-supremacist wank. Even senior retired judges are acknowledging by their actions that Jeremy Corbyn was right.
A pity that the letter signed by these judges makes an incorrect claim about what the ICJ found in the case brought by South Africa against Israel.
The letter says that on 26 January 2024 the ICJ “concluded that there was a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza”. This is repeated several times in the letter.
The words “plausible risk” appear nowhere in the ICJ's order. The letter misrepresents what the ICJ's judgment says and it is surprising and sloppy for such senior retired judges to sign a letter without carefully reading the judgment it refers to and making sure the letter they sign does not misrepresent it.
The phrase "plausible risk" does not exist in the interim order, but the word "plausible" does, 15 times. For example: "In the Court’s view, the facts and circumstances mentioned above are sufficient to conclude that at least some of the rights claimed by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection are plausible."
And: "In light of the considerations set out above, the Court considers that there is urgency, in the sense that there is a real and imminent risk that irreparable prejudice will be caused to the rights found by the Court to be plausible, before it gives its final decision." (The rights here being the right to be protected from genocide.)
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
The title is rather absurd. Is it claiming that we are more powerful than China or the USA?.
It reminds me of hearing football fans singing "we are by far the best team the world has ever seen!" while watching the League 2 playoffs, only without the irony.
On the other hand, in their tweet the Tories claim The UK is as strong as ever 🇬🇧
As strong as it was through the 19th century? Right.
Actually I think the UK is probably stronger than 19th century Britain. In a scifi war between 21st century Britain and 19th century Britain, I'd back 21st century Britain to win. We could nuke the shit out of 19th century Britain, bomb the shit out of it and so on and so forth.
The difference between 19th century and today isn't that we've gone backwards, its that the rest of the world has leapt that much more forwards.
Its 21st century China I wouldn't want to fight, not 19th century Britain.
Would you rather fight a horse sized chicken or a hundred chicken sized horses?
A horse size chicken marinated in peri peri sauce.
Most immense Nando's ever.
Make a nice change from their chicken wings where you can eat 10 and leave hungry.
Hey, dixiedean, any thoughts re: Taiwan earthquake?
IF news reports anything to go by, Taiwanese building codes/standards appear to have passed a major test, and contributed greatly to limiting loss of life, property damage and civil/economic/social disruption.
(One of the other data pointing towards "this is worse than 1997". Then, there were some competent people around. This time, that's much less obvious. This also has implications for what happens in the rest of the decade.)
Actually, being serious for a moment, if there was a Labour Party plant in CCHQ that would constitute a BIG political scandal.
(OTOH if it was just a Labour supporter who'd got through CCHQ vetting, that would constitute unsurprising Tory incompetence.)
Applying Occam's Razor, plenty of evidence that today's Tories are perfectly incompetent, and do NOT need assist from Labour OR anyone else in order to screw themselves royally.
Indeed. At this rate a Labour plant would probably inadvertently improve their output.
The chicken is a direct descendant of Tyrannosaurus Rex. Take care. They are biding their time.
Pedant mode - it's definitely NOT a direct descendant if a T Rex. Birds diverged way before T Rex time.
Birds are direct descendants of theropod dinosaurs and T. rex is a theropod dinosaur, but birds came from a different branch of Theropoda. So they aren't direct descendants of T. rex, but they're relatively close cousins.
Also: Seeing United lose in Fergie time feels quite a bit like the world rebalancing itself after all the outrageous escapes they made when he was manager.
One imagines Rishi's next royal audience might be frank. Perhaps bordering on direct.
Bloody hell. Is that really not a parody account?
Yes, here's the real poster:
Getting closer, but isn't the Corsa made in Spain? And surely should be Queen Camilla rather than the Queen of our hearts?
Alive, made in America, that's a puppet, made in Europe, dead, closed, a football team, dead, Spanish car, shop. And the Hawks are older than God.
On the actual CCHQ masterpiece...
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
What the actual fuck. The social media man is totally bananas. Can they really be this rubbish? Oh... They can.
I seriously think there may be a Labour agent in CCHQ.
Its WAAAAAY better than that.
These Tory wazzocks genuinely think that what they are doing is brilliant. Fantastic cut through messaging to their voter base. Second Best country. Massive selling point.
Except their voter base can barely use their hearing aids never mind log in to X.
I do think the Tories have a real issue with the fact that the only people under 40 voting for them are genuine oddballs and not the brightest and best ones at that. I saw the other day that Sophie Corcoran chancer who had a grift going where she went on telly to say ludicrously right-wing things as a 'young person' is apparently working for them.
It's just the Darren Grimes tendency left in that pool of research/entry level jobs - very online, overpromoted as the only ones left, and not self aware enough to realise how odd/sad they look because they view any criticism as 'the libs having a tantrum' rather than finding it all horrifyingly lame.
The chicken is a direct descendant of Tyrannosaurus Rex. Take care. They are biding their time.
Pedant mode - it's definitely NOT a direct descendant if a T Rex. Birds diverged way before T Rex time.
You're very trusting. I'm not taking chances.
Exactly. Go for the 100 chicken sized horses every time!
I think it depends how coordinated they are. If they acted with one mind, they'd be very dangerous, but if not, easy enough to pick them off one at a time.
Hey, dixiedean, any thoughts re: Taiwan earthquake?
IF news reports anything to go by, Taiwanese building codes/standards appear to have passed a major test, and contributed greatly to limiting loss of life, property damage and civil/economic/social disruption.
When I left in 1999 we landed in Amsterdam to hear there was a 7.5 pretty much as we were airborne. Bigger than anything we had I was there. That killed a lot of people. It's really helped by the location. The east coast is isolated and not very populated. It's also underdeveloped. Traditional buildings rather than modern. I think they got away with it. Earthquakes were something we got used to.
(One of the other data pointing towards "this is worse than 1997". Then, there were some competent people around. This time, that's much less obvious. This also has implications for what happens in the rest of the decade.)
Actually, being serious for a moment, if there was a Labour Party plant in CCHQ that would constitute a BIG political scandal.
(OTOH if it was just a Labour supporter who'd got through CCHQ vetting, that would constitute unsurprising Tory incompetence.)
Applying Occam's Razor, plenty of evidence that today's Tories are perfectly incompetent, and do NOT need assist from Labour OR anyone else in order to screw themselves royally.
Indeed. At this rate a Labour plant would probably inadvertently improve their output.
The chicken is a direct descendant of Tyrannosaurus Rex. Take care. They are biding their time.
Pedant mode - it's definitely NOT a direct descendant if a T Rex. Birds diverged way before T Rex time.
You're very trusting. I'm not taking chances.
Exactly. Go for the 100 chicken sized horses every time!
I think it depends how coordinated they are. If they acted with one mind, they'd be very dangerous, but if not, easy enough to pick them off one at a time.
Hey @bondegezou, don't worry! Me and my squad of ultimate Starmer fans will protect you! Check it out! Independently targeting particle beam phalanx. Vwap! Fry half a Parliamentary constituency with this puppy. We got tactical smart missiles, phase-plasma pulse rifles, RPGs, we got sonic electronic ball breakers! We got nukes, we got knives, sharp sticks, bar charts, leaflets...
Comments
Tamil Tigers - defeated 2009
FARC - defeated 2017
There are many, many, many more that have been defeated by conventional military campaigns, those are just a few former big name ones from my lifetime alone that have been defeated.
- Attach your local image via Vanilla - easy, quick and too small to read.
- Embed a link to a web image via PB.com - easy, quick* and big.
(*Provided you can find a URL to the image, if not you need to do what I do and put it on an image platform - I use imgur, other platforms are available.)
(The England side photo is clearly an error - should've used Bobby Moore's team.)
The whole point is to distract, disrupt and confuse. Being shit is deliberate.
The right way to tackle the Brexit question in our parliamentary democracy would have been for a party or parties to have included a promise to Brexit in their manifest and win a majority to implement it.
At last, something I can agree with Michael Gove on: “My single piece of advice to any future PM is never, ever have a referendum on anything.”
I'm now picturing this as an Morcambe and Wise sketch... We lost Glenda Jackson too soon.
And leaving aside the "You're the second best priest in Ireland" energy, a lot of the things in the image are things the government pointedly doesn't run.
Clever shit-posting is damn hard to fight. But this is just silly.
The letter says that on 26 January 2024 the ICJ “concluded that there was a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza”. This is repeated several times in the letter.
The words “plausible risk” appear nowhere in the ICJ's order. The letter misrepresents what the ICJ's judgment says and it is surprising and sloppy for such senior retired judges to sign a letter without carefully reading the judgment it refers to and making sure the letter they sign does not misrepresent it.
...that's a Swiss-owned, Korean-built, Panamanian-registered container ship proving how world-beating the UK (nearly) is.
It reminds me of hearing football fans singing "we are by far the best team the world has ever seen!" while watching the League 2 playoffs, only without the irony.
According to actual former VC, reunification of Vietnam meant that in the South, hordes of Northern apparatchiks came down and ruled the roost (as with post-Civil War "carpetbaggers" in Southern US) with the locals being left out in the (comparative) cold . . . where they could "whistle Dixie) for all the Northerners gave a pho(q).
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2007/sep/15/eu.liberaldemocrats
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6995032.stm
https://www.libdemvoice.org/vince-cable-on-european-referendum-1609.html
* though strangely you would see a fair number wearing repro North Vietnamese army pith helmets, often in incongruous settings.
Note this from NYT (March 27, 2024):
Former President Donald J. Trump attacked Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the independent presidential candidate, on Wednesday morning, casting Mr. Kennedy as a liberal Democrat in disguise while also seeming to back him as a spoiler for President Biden’s campaign.
Mr. Trump, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, pointed in particular to Mr. Kennedy’s views on climate change and the environment, writing on his social media site that Mr. Kennedy was more “radical Left” than Mr. Biden.
Yet he also professed support for Mr. Kennedy’s campaign, claiming that Mr. Kennedy would be likely to siphon votes from Mr. Biden. “I love that he is running!” Mr. Trump concluded.
On a similar analysis I don't think Covid was caused by a lab leak FWIW.
That's what I'm talking about - which is NOT what you are talking about.
Apples and oranges . . . or rather rambutan and star fruit!
And they're testing the effects of their policy on their social media team.
As strong as it was through the 19th century? Right.
After 9/11 America's response, the War on Terror, has to date led to approximately 937,000 direct deaths and a further 3.7 million indirect deaths. Figures taken from Wikipedia so feel free to disagree if you wish.
Israel's response has been restrained in comparison.
Not one proper Republican has made it through a primary since Romney in 2012.
Not sure you have equivalent frame of reference? Or WTF that China or Myanmar have to do with it?
The difference between 19th century and today isn't that we've gone backwards, its that the rest of the world has leapt that much more forwards.
Its 21st century China I wouldn't want to fight, not 19th century Britain.
Score tonight is better than average for them though 😉
As I said to you the other night, I think he's got no solutions and is pandering to voters like you, safe in the knowledge that he's not in charge and will quite rightly be ignored.
These Tory wazzocks genuinely think that what they are doing is brilliant. Fantastic cut through messaging to their voter base. Second Best country. Massive selling point.
Adam Bienkov
@AdamBienkov
'Don't talk down our country', says the party which recently published a video portraying its capital city as a fallen, crime-ridden hellhole, in which it's no longer safe to leave your home
Anyone remotely competent left for a high paid job in public affairs years ago.
https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1775977743781372195
(One of the other data pointing towards "this is worse than 1997". Then, there were some competent people around. This time, that's much less obvious. This also has implications for what happens in the rest of the decade.)
The No Labels group said Thursday it will not field a presidential candidate in November after strategists for the bipartisan organization failed to attract a high-profile centrist willing to seize on the widespread dissatisfaction with President Joe Biden and Donald Trump.
“No Labels has always said we would only offer our ballot line to a ticket if we could identify candidates with a credible path to winning the White House,” Nancy Jacobson, the group’s CEO, said in a statement sent out to allies. “No such candidates emerged, so the responsible course of action is for us to stand down.”
The unexpected announcement further cements the general election matchup between the two unpopular major party candidates, Biden and Trump, leaving anti-vaccine activist Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as the only prominent outsider still seeking the presidency. Kennedy said this week that he had collected enough signatures to qualify for the fall ballot in in five states. . . .
SSI - Good news for Biden, bad news for Trump. Seeing as how a "centrist" POTUS candidate would draw votes from former rather than latter.
Brown thought devolution would kill off the threat from the SNP. Can't have been more wrong there!
He also made the benefit system too complicated, with bad effects for many claimants.
Definitely no titan... if better than who followed!
I feel even more reassured that Biden has this.
The Lincoln Project
@ProjectLincoln
·
1h
No Labels is OUT. Today’s huge win is a testament to the strength of the pro-democracy coalition we've amassed since 2020. No Labels is a dark money operation created to throw the election to Trump… and failed. But there’s still more work to do.
Next up: RFK
https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1775965648138432902
(OTOH if it was just a Labour supporter who'd got through CCHQ vetting, that would constitute unsurprising Tory incompetence.)
Most immense Nando's ever.
Or is this just another Tory day?
Take care. They are biding their time.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/william-wragg-tory-mp-honeytrap-sext-scandal-photo-whatsapps-63zqb3bd9
Animal-based food is good, corn-fed chicken, grass-fed beef ...
And: "In light of the considerations set out above, the Court considers that there is urgency, in the sense that there is a real and imminent risk that irreparable prejudice will be caused to the rights found by the Court to be plausible, before it gives its final decision." (The rights here being the right to be protected from genocide.)
Is not "plausible risk" a reasonable summary?
Edit. @TSE has linked.
I'm not taking chances.
IF news reports anything to go by, Taiwanese building codes/standards appear to have passed a major test, and contributed greatly to limiting loss of life, property damage and civil/economic/social disruption.
And T. rex was definitely feathered.
Also: Seeing United lose in Fergie time feels quite a bit like the world rebalancing itself after all the outrageous escapes they made when he was manager.
It's just the Darren Grimes tendency left in that pool of research/entry level jobs - very online, overpromoted as the only ones left, and not self aware enough to realise how odd/sad they look because they view any criticism as 'the libs having a tantrum' rather than finding it all horrifyingly lame.
That killed a lot of people. It's really helped by the location. The east coast is isolated and not very populated. It's also underdeveloped. Traditional buildings rather than modern. I think they got away with it.
Earthquakes were something we got used to.