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No leads Yes by 28% in the latest independence poll – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited March 29 in General
No leads Yes by 28% in the latest independence poll – politicalbetting.com

'No' leads by 28 points.Welsh Independence Referendum Voting Intention (23-24 March): No, against Independence: 58% (-3) Yes, for Independence: 30% (+3)Don't know: 11% (-1)Changes +/- 18 Februaryhttps://t.co/8GY51avq4j pic.twitter.com/CTpLpfICXK

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Comments

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,537
    First again
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,344
    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,195
    We can rule out Welsh independence for another week then. Small earthquake in Chile...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,195
    edited March 29
    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    Prison is for little people.

    ETA maybe Rishi can ask Keir Starmer for a DPP view at next Leader of the Opposition's questions. If I were potentially in the firing line, that would worry me. As it is, the inquiry is kicking it into the long grass.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,537
    FPT Repost due to curse of the new thread...

    File under 'Jumping before they are pushed':

    So far, 66 MPs elected as Conservatives in 2019 have announced they will not stand again – this includes four who have since lost the whip and sit as independents – which is close to one in five of the total.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/29/tory-party-lose-almost-1000-years-commons-experience-mps-quit

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,052

    FPT Repost due to curse of the new thread...

    File under 'Jumping before they are pushed':

    So far, 66 MPs elected as Conservatives in 2019 have announced they will not stand again – this includes four who have since lost the whip and sit as independents – which is close to one in five of the total.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/29/tory-party-lose-almost-1000-years-commons-experience-mps-quit

    That is the most concrete of evidence that the Reckoning is coming.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,537
    edited March 29
    kinabalu said:

    FPT Repost due to curse of the new thread...

    File under 'Jumping before they are pushed':

    So far, 66 MPs elected as Conservatives in 2019 have announced they will not stand again – this includes four who have since lost the whip and sit as independents – which is close to one in five of the total.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/29/tory-party-lose-almost-1000-years-commons-experience-mps-quit

    That is the most concrete of evidence that the Reckoning is coming.
    These 66 have read the writing on the wall; several others are struggling with that because it's not written in block caps.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,212

    Re the headline: you utter tease TSE.

    I just wanted the Welsh to know this isn't a Scotocentric website.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,084
    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    I still suspect they will find extenuating circumstances.

    Such as, the management being a load of rich slimy well-connected bastards.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,348
    Is the question of English independemce ever polled? I've not seen any polling on it for years.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,556

    kinabalu said:

    FPT Repost due to curse of the new thread...

    File under 'Jumping before they are pushed':

    So far, 66 MPs elected as Conservatives in 2019 have announced they will not stand again – this includes four who have since lost the whip and sit as independents – which is close to one in five of the total.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/29/tory-party-lose-almost-1000-years-commons-experience-mps-quit

    That is the most concrete of evidence that the Reckoning is coming.
    These 66 have read the writing on the wall; several others are struggling with that because it's not written in block caps.
    Don't you mean, written in individual letters in capitals and lower case, like BR station signs?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,084

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    Prison is for little people.

    ETA maybe Rishi can ask Keir Starmer for a DPP view at next Leader of the Opposition's questions. If I were potentially in the firing line, that would worry me. As it is, the inquiry is kicking it into the long grass.
    If it's for little people, should the PM be worried?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,977
    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    It's damning but isn't the issue of remote access a bit of a red herring? The problems were caused by bad transaction software rather than human intervention.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,084

    Re the headline: you utter tease TSE.

    I just wanted the Welsh to know this isn't a Scotocentric website.
    If we have Scotch experts, is the equivalent a Welch expert?

    And would using that phrase actually be libellous on a betting website?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,537
    Re the VI graph: that's a 14% swing to Labour in Wales since the GE, just saying.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,195
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    Prison is for little people.

    ETA maybe Rishi can ask Keir Starmer for a DPP view at next Leader of the Opposition's questions. If I were potentially in the firing line, that would worry me. As it is, the inquiry is kicking it into the long grass.
    If it's for little people, should the PM be worried?
    He might find a decent tailor inside.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,084

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    Prison is for little people.

    ETA maybe Rishi can ask Keir Starmer for a DPP view at next Leader of the Opposition's questions. If I were potentially in the firing line, that would worry me. As it is, the inquiry is kicking it into the long grass.
    If it's for little people, should the PM be worried?
    He might find a decent tailor inside.
    Don't be silly.

    Tailors stitch others up.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,977
    There is a school of thought that the Welsh language should be on the curriculum across the UK as a way of fostering an identity that is differentiated from the global Anglosphere.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,940
    Channeling HYUFD, that’s a 3pt swing to Yes.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,556
    ydoethur said:

    Re the headline: you utter tease TSE.

    I just wanted the Welsh to know this isn't a Scotocentric website.
    If we have Scotch experts, is the equivalent a Welch expert?

    And would using that phrase actually be libellous on a betting website?
    Still in use, though: as in 1st Battalion, The Royal Welsh (Royal Welch Fusiliers).

  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,344
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Re the headline: you utter tease TSE.

    I just wanted the Welsh to know this isn't a Scotocentric website.
    If we have Scotch experts, is the equivalent a Welch expert?

    And would using that phrase actually be libellous on a betting website?
    Still in use, though: as in 1st Battalion, The Royal Welsh (Royal Welch Fusiliers).

    The current Welch expert is Rishi Sunak, I suggest.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,556

    Channeling HYUFD, that’s a 3pt swing to Yes.

    Also interesting demonstration that simply adding up the Unionist parties and DK's doesn't generate an accurate No.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,556

    There is a school of thought that the Welsh language should be on the curriculum across the UK as a way of fostering an identity that is differentiated from the global Anglosphere.

    Tut, you mean British language.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,556
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Re the headline: you utter tease TSE.

    I just wanted the Welsh to know this isn't a Scotocentric website.
    If we have Scotch experts, is the equivalent a Welch expert?

    And would using that phrase actually be libellous on a betting website?
    Still in use, though: as in 1st Battalion, The Royal Welsh (Royal Welch Fusiliers).

    The current Welch expert is Rishi Sunak, I suggest.
    Oh dear, what brought that on? Leaseholds?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,556
    While on the Welsh front, this looks interesting. I do like laverbread.

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2024/mar/29/the-shed-swansea-grace-dent-restaurant-review
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,940
    Cookie said:

    Is the question of English independemce ever polled? I've not seen any polling on it for years.

    Brexit (insofar as it wasn’t already a vote for English Indy) seems to have diminished enthusiasm.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_independence#:~:text=In 2020, a poll by,30% didn't know.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,348
    Apparently there is a trend among the young for tidying your bedroom and lying on the floor.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/wellbeing/mental-health/lying-floor-time-posture/

    Nice one, the youth. Rock. And. Roll.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,212
    Cookie said:

    Is the question of English independemce ever polled? I've not seen any polling on it for years.

    In 2020, a poll by Panelbase showed that 49% of English voters supported English independence, excluding "don't knows". 34% were in favour of English independence, 36% against and 30% didn't know
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 3,796

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    It's damning but isn't the issue of remote access a bit of a red herring? The problems were caused by bad transaction software rather than human intervention.
    Not if the software was generating bad transactions in both directions (deficit versus surplus in the postmasters' accounts) , but someone was remotely only deleting those in the one direction.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,816
    Afternoon all :)

    Techne - 59-35, 21 point Labour lead - right in the trend , 17% swing Conservative to Labour.

    Elsewhere, just seen the latest Dutch poll where the post-election Government formation goes on. The PVV are on 31% (+7.5) with the main losers the NSC (Omtzigt's party) down from 13 to 7 and the VVD, the traditional centre party in the Netherlands, down from 15% to 12.5%. BBB are also down 0.5.

    One of the most likely Government coalitions was PVV-NSC-VVD-BBB which would have a comfortable majority with 88 seats in the 150 seat House of Representatives so the votes are moving within rather than across the blocs. However, the four parties cannot agree to form a majority cabinert so some form of minority looks likely - negotiations are continuing.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,043
    Cookie said:

    Apparently there is a trend among the young for tidying your bedroom and lying on the floor.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/wellbeing/mental-health/lying-floor-time-posture/

    Nice one, the youth. Rock. And. Roll.

    I used to lie on the floor when I was young. I'm not sure why I did it. I must have been an early adopter.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,913

    There is a school of thought that the Welsh language should be on the curriculum across the UK as a way of fostering an identity that is differentiated from the global Anglosphere.

    For a particularly broad use of the word "school", sure.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,816
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    Prison is for little people.

    ETA maybe Rishi can ask Keir Starmer for a DPP view at next Leader of the Opposition's questions. If I were potentially in the firing line, that would worry me. As it is, the inquiry is kicking it into the long grass.
    If it's for little people, should the PM be worried?
    There's a much more serious debate to be had about criminal justice and the use of prisons. All I hear are how crowded or over crowded the prisons have become - presumably, like other forms of residential accommodation, we've not been building enough - El Salvador has a prison for 40,000 inmates (roughly the population of Aldershot).

    As usual, it's not an easy debate - you'll have on one side the "build more prisons, lock 'em up and throw away the key" types and on the other those who say since the prison population is so high, we should we looking at alternatives to incarceration. What proportion, for example, of the UK prison population aren't UK citizens?
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,594
    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    In the past few days we have seen not one but three separate smoking guns revealed by the media, by the BBC, Channel 4 and ITV respectively. Each of them is by itself enough to show conclusively how utterly corrupt the Post Office and its accomplices were and probably still are.

    It is astonishing that there still have not been any arrests, not just one or two but a whole multitude. A couple of interviews under caution so far is not even scratching the surface.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,977
    rcs1000 said:

    There is a school of thought that the Welsh language should be on the curriculum across the UK as a way of fostering an identity that is differentiated from the global Anglosphere.

    For a particularly broad use of the word "school", sure.
    It's a good idea.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,234

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    It's damning but isn't the issue of remote access a bit of a red herring? The problems were caused by bad transaction software rather than human intervention.
    Not if the software was generating bad transactions in both directions (deficit versus surplus in the postmasters' accounts) , but someone was remotely only deleting those in the one direction.
    There is also the tiny, tiny matter of organised serial perjury.
    And the use of well over a hundred million pounds, of what's effectively public money, on legal action to keep innocent people convicted.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,748

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    In the past few days we have seen not one but three separate smoking guns revealed by the media, by the BBC, Channel 4 and ITV respectively. Each of them is by itself enough to show conclusively how utterly corrupt the Post Office and its accomplices were and probably still are.

    It is astonishing that there still have not been any arrests, not just one or two but a whole multitude. A couple of interviews under caution so far is not even scratching the surface.
    The big question ahead is quite why these people acted as they did. Did they really just dig themselves into this hole? At the very least there's a hole-digger-in-chief somewhere.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,234

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    In the past few days we have seen not one but three separate smoking guns revealed by the media, by the BBC, Channel 4 and ITV respectively. Each of them is by itself enough to show conclusively how utterly corrupt the Post Office and its accomplices were and probably still are.

    It is astonishing that there still have not been any arrests, not just one or two but a whole multitude. A couple of interviews under caution so far is not even scratching the surface.
    "Not appropriate to comment" alone should see the current board summarily dismissed.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,748

    There is a school of thought that the Welsh language should be on the curriculum across the UK as a way of fostering an identity that is differentiated from the global Anglosphere.

    What ever the new grade for complete failure is this gets it. 10 is it? 'A' with notes?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,898

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    In the past few days we have seen not one but three separate smoking guns revealed by the media, by the BBC, Channel 4 and ITV respectively. Each of them is by itself enough to show conclusively how utterly corrupt the Post Office and its accomplices were and probably still are.

    It is astonishing that there still have not been any arrests, not just one or two but a whole multitude. A couple of interviews under caution so far is not even scratching the surface.
    Everyone seems to be waiting for the report of the Inquiry. I must say that it must be worrying…. at least …. for the people who were once at the top, and they must be in regular contact with their lawyers.
    Incidentally I wonder who is paying those lawyers!
    Still, if they are being driven mad with worry there’s a degree of justice!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,195
    Rishi Sunak rewards Tory friends with Easter honours list
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdB-md2Ngho

    That's Times Radio but if you prefer LBC:-

    Is Rishi Sunak 'abusing' the UK honours system? | LBC debate
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UL8HAYRAsw

    Is there no-one left in Number 10 who has a clue about politics?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,925
    From what we know it doesn't look pretty for Jeffrey Donaldson.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,334

    FPT Repost due to curse of the new thread...

    File under 'Jumping before they are pushed':

    So far, 66 MPs elected as Conservatives in 2019 have announced they will not stand again – this includes four who have since lost the whip and sit as independents – which is close to one in five of the total.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/29/tory-party-lose-almost-1000-years-commons-experience-mps-quit

    Any analysis of who is jumping? Is it MPs who are clearly doomed and can't face exposing themselves to the wrath of the voters, or MPs who would still win locally but can't face four years of futility in opposition?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,930
    edited March 29
    Given Wales has a Unionist Labour government independence polling there of only general interest but still a sizeable 28% lead for No. Given 48% in Wales voted against Brexit pretty good news for Unionists overall, that now Brexit is done it doesn't seem to have added much to Welsh independence support.

    The Welsh Tories meanwhile need to squeeze the sizeable 15% Reform vote
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,930
    edited March 29

    Cookie said:

    Is the question of English independemce ever polled? I've not seen any polling on it for years.

    Brexit (insofar as it wasn’t already a vote for English Indy) seems to have diminished enthusiasm.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_independence#:~:text=In 2020, a poll by,30% didn't know.
    Still a clear majority for an English Parliament there even if it stays in the UK with Westminster becoming the UK Federal Parliament
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,463
    rcs1000 said:

    There is a school of thought that the Welsh language should be on the curriculum across the UK as a way of fostering an identity that is differentiated from the global Anglosphere.

    For a particularly broad use of the word "school", sure.
    Perhaps he means "school" as in "Trump University"?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 3,842
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Re the headline: you utter tease TSE.

    I just wanted the Welsh to know this isn't a Scotocentric website.
    If we have Scotch experts, is the equivalent a Welch expert?

    And would using that phrase actually be libellous on a betting website?
    Still in use, though: as in 1st Battalion, The Royal Welsh (Royal Welch Fusiliers).

    The current Welch expert is Rishi Sunak, I suggest.
    When Rishi was an even smaller chap, Welching (pronounced Welshing) to him in the school language was cheating in an exam/test and copying someone’s work. I’m trying to think whose work he’s copying because it’s not working.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,930
    dixiedean said:

    From what we know it doesn't look pretty for Jeffrey Donaldson.

    Doesn't necessarily mean he is guilty though, remember Alex Salmond was found not guilty of his rape charges at trial in the end
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,195

    FPT Repost due to curse of the new thread...

    File under 'Jumping before they are pushed':

    So far, 66 MPs elected as Conservatives in 2019 have announced they will not stand again – this includes four who have since lost the whip and sit as independents – which is close to one in five of the total.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/29/tory-party-lose-almost-1000-years-commons-experience-mps-quit

    Any analysis of who is jumping? Is it MPs who are clearly doomed and can't face exposing themselves to the wrath of the voters, or MPs who would still win locally but can't face four years of futility in opposition?
    The Standard compiled this list of MPs who are standing down. I've not analysed it but a quick glance at the names I recognise says it is Labour MPs who already have their free bus passes, and young and dynamic Conservatives looking for alternative careers.
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mps-quit-general-election-matt-hancock-sajid-javid-b1046170.html
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,727

    rcs1000 said:

    There is a school of thought that the Welsh language should be on the curriculum across the UK as a way of fostering an identity that is differentiated from the global Anglosphere.

    For a particularly broad use of the word "school", sure.
    It's a good idea.
    Every once in a while English speakers have a fit of Celtic revivalism and realise that Welsh is part of their lost culture and not a foreign language. Hence the persistent popularity of King Arthur.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,463
    dixiedean said:

    From what we know it doesn't look pretty for Jeffrey Donaldson.

    Oh, don't know about that.

    For one thing, reckon Jeffrey Donaldson (and his alleged accomplice) are quite likely and (allegedly) highly qualified, to be very special guest(s) of honor, at the next Mom's for Liberty "get-together".

    Can get together in great big pile, to explore their favorite positions regarding anti-Woke activism . . . and etc.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,195
    300 days to the general election on Thursday, 23rd January.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,129

    rcs1000 said:

    There is a school of thought that the Welsh language should be on the curriculum across the UK as a way of fostering an identity that is differentiated from the global Anglosphere.

    For a particularly broad use of the word "school", sure.
    It's a good idea.
    Every once in a while English speakers have a fit of Celtic revivalism and realise that Welsh is part of their lost culture and not a foreign language. Hence the persistent popularity of King Arthur.
    It's an interesting idea, but the English population alone is nearly twenty times that of Wales, and only a relatively small minority within Wales itself speak the language fluently. Wales needs all its Welsh language teachers for itself!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,029

    We can rule out Welsh independence for another week then. Small earthquake in Chile...

    Welsh independence progress seems to be delayed in a 20 mph zone.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,234
    Meanwhile in Russia: Vladislav Shurygin told Vladimir Solovyov that Ukrainians are animals who don't understand anything human. He suggested using cluster munitions and wiping out entire towns where Ukrainian soldiers' wives, children and parents live.
    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1773118657574420892
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,930
    edited March 29

    FPT Repost due to curse of the new thread...

    File under 'Jumping before they are pushed':

    So far, 66 MPs elected as Conservatives in 2019 have announced they will not stand again – this includes four who have since lost the whip and sit as independents – which is close to one in five of the total.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/29/tory-party-lose-almost-1000-years-commons-experience-mps-quit

    Any analysis of who is jumping? Is it MPs who are clearly doomed and can't face exposing themselves to the wrath of the voters, or MPs who would still win locally but can't face four years of futility in opposition?
    The Standard compiled this list of MPs who are standing down. I've not analysed it but a quick glance at the names I recognise says it is Labour MPs who already have their free bus passes, and young and dynamic Conservatives looking for alternative careers.
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mps-quit-general-election-matt-hancock-sajid-javid-b1046170.html
    Was the same for Labour before the 2010 general election when lots of high flyers stepped down.

    If you are middle aged, a Minister and capable of earning £100k+outside Parliament and don't fancy the paycut and life on the opposition backbenches for years then stepping down as an MP makes sense.

    There are some decent MPs who will always put public service first, whether their party is in power or not and some ideologues who even see Opposition as a chance to return to purity but for reasonably centrist middle aged careerists if they have been in government, been a Minister and MP and got that on their CV going into Opposition means that they can only go backwards career wise unless they leave Parliament. While if they are in a marginal they know the voters might make that decision for them so they may as well start sending CVs
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,084
    rcs1000 said:

    There is a school of thought that the Welsh language should be on the curriculum across the UK as a way of fostering an identity that is differentiated from the global Anglosphere.

    For a particularly broad use of the word "school", sure.
    Indeed.

    Should be 'meddwl ysgol' in this context.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,913

    rcs1000 said:

    There is a school of thought that the Welsh language should be on the curriculum across the UK as a way of fostering an identity that is differentiated from the global Anglosphere.

    For a particularly broad use of the word "school", sure.
    It's a good idea.
    It's certainly an idea.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,236
    Good evening

    The appointment of Gething has been largely welcomed in Wales as he seeks to address many serious issues, not least the worst performing NHS and Education in the four nations, and the issues around transport policy

    To this end he has appointed North Wales MS Ken Skates as the new Transport Secretary.

    The MS for Clwyd South said that new schemes would be considered if they reflect the "climate emergency" and put Wales at the "forefront of design".

    Mr Skates' comments come after the Welsh Government scrapped all new major projects last year, which saw a controversial end to the 'red route' in Flintshire.

    The Flintshire corridor and Menai crossing, Mr Skates added: "Absolutely, they are certainly on my desk for consideration and they have been considered extensively by the North Wales Transport Commission.

    "There is popular support for both of them, amongst people who want to improve air quality and congestion, but we can’t just consider the schemes that were designed many years ago.

    "We have to ensure they reflect the climate emergency we face."

    As well as plans for new schemes, Mr Skates revealed a large part of his new role will include 'listening' to the views of residents, councillors and experts on issues such as the 20mph speed limit.

    Mr Skates said: "I’ve had a very full discussion with the new First Minister about what he wants me to do and the priority is to listen and to take action based on the listening.

    "Whether it’s on 20mph, road building or any other matter and that applies to both portfolios of transport and north Wales.

    "I am going to listen to people, I’m going to listen to councillors that represent communities and I'm going to listen to experts. I’m determined to solve problems."

    It is certain the conservatives will suffer a heavy defeat in Wales, but it must be remembered that the anger towards the conservative party goes back to Thatcher and her confrontation with the miners

    It is highly likely labour will be in power not only in Westminster, but in Scotland as they are in Wales and the one benefit from this will be that neither Scotland or Wales will be able to blame the 'Tories' In Westminster for lack of funding and legislative problems which will remain, and likely deepen

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,084
    Speaking of Welsh schools, I had a very enthusiastic message from my alma mater this morning extolling the virtues of Vaughan Gething, the Aber alumnus scaling the dizzy heights of First Minister.

    Which puzzled me as Carwyn Jones was an Aber man as well and I don't recall this level of enthusiasm when he succeeded Morgan.

    Also, it was in Welsh. Which is ironic as Vaughan Gething doesn't speak it...
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,129
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    In the past few days we have seen not one but three separate smoking guns revealed by the media, by the BBC, Channel 4 and ITV respectively. Each of them is by itself enough to show conclusively how utterly corrupt the Post Office and its accomplices were and probably still are.

    It is astonishing that there still have not been any arrests, not just one or two but a whole multitude. A couple of interviews under caution so far is not even scratching the surface.
    "Not appropriate to comment" alone should see the current board summarily dismissed.
    Two possibilities: 1. Everyone involved in this at the Post Office (and Fujitsu) will get away with it. 2. One or two very low ranking functionaries will be made an example of, and everyone senior will get away with it.

    No way on Earth the execs suffer for this. Vennells having to hand back her gong is as far as it'll ever go.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,029

    There is a school of thought that the Welsh language should be on the curriculum across the UK as a way of fostering an identity that is differentiated from the global Anglosphere.

    Cachau bant!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,463
    ydoethur said:

    Speaking of Welsh schools, I had a very enthusiastic message from my alma mater this morning extolling the virtues of Vaughan Gething, the Aber alumnus scaling the dizzy heights of First Minister.

    Which puzzled me as Carwyn Jones was an Aber man as well and I don't recall this level of enthusiasm when he succeeded Morgan.

    Also, it was in Welsh. Which is ironic as Vaughan Gething doesn't speak it...

    Onay itshay?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 4,710
    edited March 29
    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile in Russia: Vladislav Shurygin told Vladimir Solovyov that Ukrainians are animals who don't understand anything human. He suggested using cluster munitions and wiping out entire towns where Ukrainian soldiers' wives, children and parents live.
    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1773118657574420892

    Putin must be so happy that most of the GOP are treasonous scum . Anyone supporting Trump , anyone supporting Farage in the UK are all scum .
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,787
    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    Prison is for little people.

    ETA maybe Rishi can ask Keir Starmer for a DPP view at next Leader of the Opposition's questions. If I were potentially in the firing line, that would worry me. As it is, the inquiry is kicking it into the long grass.
    If it's for little people, should the PM be worried?
    There's a much more serious debate to be had about criminal justice and the use of prisons. All I hear are how crowded or over crowded the prisons have become - presumably, like other forms of residential accommodation, we've not been building enough - El Salvador has a prison for 40,000 inmates (roughly the population of Aldershot).

    As usual, it's not an easy debate - you'll have on one side the "build more prisons, lock 'em up and throw away the key" types and on the other those who say since the prison population is so high, we should we looking at alternatives to incarceration. What proportion, for example, of the UK prison population aren't UK citizens?
    The prison situation in El Salvador is a mess. Essentially they have rounded up 40,000 people without trial or any judicial process and have now built what looks like something worse than a concentration camp to house them, 100 people per 100 sqm cell; on metal bunks; indefinetly. This is ultimately what happens when you have a populist government with no interest in human rights.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,029
    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile in Russia: Vladislav Shurygin told Vladimir Solovyov that Ukrainians are animals who don't understand anything human. He suggested using cluster munitions and wiping out entire towns where Ukrainian soldiers' wives, children and parents live.
    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1773118657574420892

    Putin must be so happy that most of the GOP are treasonous scum . Anyone supporting Trump , anyone supporting Farage in the UK are all scum .
    Thank you Angela Rayner.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,662
    Remarkable interview with Elon M. Using his own satellites speaking from his own plane

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akXMYvKjUxM

    He really is a kind of cartoon character, made real

    TL;DW: He says compute going into AI is increasing by ten times every six months. That's 100X a year. Wildly exponential, and he expects this to continue

    In that light he makes these predictions, a form of AGI - a computer smarter than any individual by next year, 2025, and a computer smarter than all of humanity combined, ASI, by 2029-30

    Five years away

    Now, I may be misconstruing him in some way, but that sounds like The Singularity. That is the world transformed - within 5 years. This is hurtling towards us at extraordinary speed. He actually says that - "I've never seen anything grow this fast"

    I know PB has quite a few Musko-skeptics, so maybe he is wrong on this (as he has been wrong on self driving cars, consistently). Alternatively, he is right, and whooooooh
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,556

    There is a school of thought that the Welsh language should be on the curriculum across the UK as a way of fostering an identity that is differentiated from the global Anglosphere.

    Cachau bant!
    Oh, we're talking about Dwr Cymru now, are we? This thread is covering quite a range.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,029
    Carnyx said:

    There is a school of thought that the Welsh language should be on the curriculum across the UK as a way of fostering an identity that is differentiated from the global Anglosphere.

    Cachau bant!
    Oh, we're talking about Dwr Cymru now, are we? This thread is covering quite a range.
    If you ask @ydoethur nicely he'll translate.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,084

    Carnyx said:

    There is a school of thought that the Welsh language should be on the curriculum across the UK as a way of fostering an identity that is differentiated from the global Anglosphere.

    Cachau bant!
    Oh, we're talking about Dwr Cymru now, are we? This thread is covering quite a range.
    If you ask @ydoethur nicely he'll translate.
    Given what you're asking me to translate, surely a better course of action would be to be very rude to me?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,662
    edited March 29
    darkage said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    Prison is for little people.

    ETA maybe Rishi can ask Keir Starmer for a DPP view at next Leader of the Opposition's questions. If I were potentially in the firing line, that would worry me. As it is, the inquiry is kicking it into the long grass.
    If it's for little people, should the PM be worried?
    There's a much more serious debate to be had about criminal justice and the use of prisons. All I hear are how crowded or over crowded the prisons have become - presumably, like other forms of residential accommodation, we've not been building enough - El Salvador has a prison for 40,000 inmates (roughly the population of Aldershot).

    As usual, it's not an easy debate - you'll have on one side the "build more prisons, lock 'em up and throw away the key" types and on the other those who say since the prison population is so high, we should we looking at alternatives to incarceration. What proportion, for example, of the UK prison population aren't UK citizens?
    The prison situation in El Salvador is a mess. Essentially they have rounded up 40,000 people without trial or any judicial process and have now built what looks like something worse than a concentration camp to house them, 100 people per 100 sqm cell; on metal bunks; indefinetly. This is ultimately what happens when you have a populist government with no interest in human rights.
    And the president has just been re-elected with 85% of the vote, the most emphatic mandate in global democratic history, I think

    As he puts it: "what about the human rights of all the people that were getting shot, killed, chopped, raped and blown up by the gang bangers he has now put in jail"?

    Bukele has reduced El Salvador's homicide rate from one of the worst in the world to one of the lowest in the Americas
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,084
    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile in Russia: Vladislav Shurygin told Vladimir Solovyov that Ukrainians are animals who don't understand anything human. He suggested using cluster munitions and wiping out entire towns where Ukrainian soldiers' wives, children and parents live.
    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1773118657574420892

    Putin must be so happy that most of the GOP are treasonous scum . Anyone supporting Trump , anyone supporting Farage in the UK are all scum .
    I don't agree with this analysis.

    I think it's horrendous, demeaning and dangerous to compare the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene or Donald Trump to scum.

    I therefore call on you to withdraw that remark, and apologise to any scum that may have taken offence at the unjustified slur you have made.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,029
    edited March 29
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    There is a school of thought that the Welsh language should be on the curriculum across the UK as a way of fostering an identity that is differentiated from the global Anglosphere.

    Cachau bant!
    Oh, we're talking about Dwr Cymru now, are we? This thread is covering quite a range.
    If you ask @ydoethur nicely he'll translate.
    Given what you're asking me to translate, surely a better course of action would be to be very rude to me?
    I am Amanda Spielman. What would you like me to do?

    Or

    Are you Amanda Spielman?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,084
    edited March 29

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    There is a school of thought that the Welsh language should be on the curriculum across the UK as a way of fostering an identity that is differentiated from the global Anglosphere.

    Cachau bant!
    Oh, we're talking about Dwr Cymru now, are we? This thread is covering quite a range.
    If you ask @ydoethur nicely he'll translate.
    Given what you're asking me to translate, surely a better course of action would be to be very rude to me?
    I am Amanda Spielman. What would you like me to do?
    Well, what I would like Amanda Spielman to do to herself is have a minute's self awareness. Or something lingering with boiling oil in it.

    So that doesn't really translate very well.

    But to ensure I don't have to endure her presence for a second longer, I'll content myself with inviting her to fuck off.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,129

    It is highly likely labour will be in power not only in Westminster, but in Scotland as they are in Wales and the one benefit from this will be that neither Scotland or Wales will be able to blame the 'Tories' In Westminster for lack of funding and legislative problems which will remain, and likely deepen

    Unless, of course, they do actually decide to have a pop at Whitehall at regular intervals - special pleading for the primacy of their interests being rather part of the job, and the world being a somewhat different place to what it was when Labour was last in power at Westminster.

    You could even argue that using the richer half of England as a cash machine to bolster the finances of the rest of the country is a necessary consequence of a redistributive platform and of the whole levelling up schtick. We could argue all day about the degree to which this should apply to Scotland, but you can make a very good argument for Wales being short changed by the existing settlement.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,556
    pigeon said:

    It is highly likely labour will be in power not only in Westminster, but in Scotland as they are in Wales and the one benefit from this will be that neither Scotland or Wales will be able to blame the 'Tories' In Westminster for lack of funding and legislative problems which will remain, and likely deepen

    Unless, of course, they do actually decide to have a pop at Whitehall at regular intervals - special pleading for the primacy of their interests being rather part of the job, and the world being a somewhat different place to what it was when Labour was last in power at Westminster.

    You could even argue that using the richer half of England as a cash machine to bolster the finances of the rest of the country is a necessary consequence of a redistributive platform and of the whole levelling up schtick. We could argue all day about the degree to which this should apply to Scotland, but you can make a very good argument for Wales being short changed by the existing settlement.
    As the stir-fry cooks, I would suggest that there is certainly the question of how far SKS's policy thought is evolving (or devolving, one might say) compared to Llafur Cymru. I don't know the latter well enough but it's an issue which will be interesting for Slab - in fact, it already is, with at least one electoral candidate advocating SNP rather than UK Labour policies (e.g. on three children and benefits).
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,195
    pigeon said:

    It is highly likely labour will be in power not only in Westminster, but in Scotland as they are in Wales and the one benefit from this will be that neither Scotland or Wales will be able to blame the 'Tories' In Westminster for lack of funding and legislative problems which will remain, and likely deepen

    Unless, of course, they do actually decide to have a pop at Whitehall at regular intervals - special pleading for the primacy of their interests being rather part of the job, and the world being a somewhat different place to what it was when Labour was last in power at Westminster.

    You could even argue that using the richer half of England as a cash machine to bolster the finances of the rest of the country is a necessary consequence of a redistributive platform and of the whole levelling up schtick. We could argue all day about the degree to which this should apply to Scotland, but you can make a very good argument for Wales being short changed by the existing settlement.
    Wales is hampered imo by the cultural wing of Plaid which is more interested in subsidising the spread of the language into schools and television than in modernising the Welsh economy. Whatever you think of the SNP government in Scotland, it sees beyond bilingual road signs.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,166
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    It's damning but isn't the issue of remote access a bit of a red herring? The problems were caused by bad transaction software rather than human intervention.
    Not if the software was generating bad transactions in both directions (deficit versus surplus in the postmasters' accounts) , but someone was remotely only deleting those in the one direction.
    There is also the tiny, tiny matter of organised serial perjury.
    And the use of well over a hundred million pounds, of what's effectively public money, on legal action to keep innocent people convicted.
    That’s just a side effect of the organised serial perjury.

    As I said the other day, I’m just waiting for the revelations

    1) that money was actually stolen. By post office investigators under orders from the Post Office to frame more innocent people. In conjunction with a drug cartel.

    2) that the coverup included vat growing genetically modified super-ninja to murder the witnesses.

    What else is left?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,195
    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    Prison is for little people.

    ETA maybe Rishi can ask Keir Starmer for a DPP view at next Leader of the Opposition's questions. If I were potentially in the firing line, that would worry me. As it is, the inquiry is kicking it into the long grass.
    If it's for little people, should the PM be worried?
    There's a much more serious debate to be had about criminal justice and the use of prisons. All I hear are how crowded or over crowded the prisons have become - presumably, like other forms of residential accommodation, we've not been building enough - El Salvador has a prison for 40,000 inmates (roughly the population of Aldershot).

    As usual, it's not an easy debate - you'll have on one side the "build more prisons, lock 'em up and throw away the key" types and on the other those who say since the prison population is so high, we should we looking at alternatives to incarceration. What proportion, for example, of the UK prison population aren't UK citizens?
    The prison situation in El Salvador is a mess. Essentially they have rounded up 40,000 people without trial or any judicial process and have now built what looks like something worse than a concentration camp to house them, 100 people per 100 sqm cell; on metal bunks; indefinetly. This is ultimately what happens when you have a populist government with no interest in human rights.
    And the president has just been re-elected with 85% of the vote, the most emphatic mandate in global democratic history, I think

    As he puts it: "what about the human rights of all the people that were getting shot, killed, chopped, raped and blown up by the gang bangers he has now put in jail"?

    Bukele has reduced El Salvador's homicide rate from one of the worst in the world to one of the lowest in the Americas
    Yes, and this is why Putin would win a free election, and why Saddam was so popular. Most people do not really care about political freedom because most people do not want to run their country. They just want a safe and comfortable home and work environment. But political freedom does seem to be the sine qua non of prosperity. Even resource-rich dictatorships collapse into corruption.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,129
    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    Prison is for little people.

    ETA maybe Rishi can ask Keir Starmer for a DPP view at next Leader of the Opposition's questions. If I were potentially in the firing line, that would worry me. As it is, the inquiry is kicking it into the long grass.
    If it's for little people, should the PM be worried?
    There's a much more serious debate to be had about criminal justice and the use of prisons. All I hear are how crowded or over crowded the prisons have become - presumably, like other forms of residential accommodation, we've not been building enough - El Salvador has a prison for 40,000 inmates (roughly the population of Aldershot).

    As usual, it's not an easy debate - you'll have on one side the "build more prisons, lock 'em up and throw away the key" types and on the other those who say since the prison population is so high, we should we looking at alternatives to incarceration. What proportion, for example, of the UK prison population aren't UK citizens?
    The prison situation in El Salvador is a mess. Essentially they have rounded up 40,000 people without trial or any judicial process and have now built what looks like something worse than a concentration camp to house them, 100 people per 100 sqm cell; on metal bunks; indefinetly. This is ultimately what happens when you have a populist government with no interest in human rights.
    And the president has just been re-elected with 85% of the vote, the most emphatic mandate in global democratic history, I think

    As he puts it: "what about the human rights of all the people that were getting shot, killed, chopped, raped and blown up by the gang bangers he has now put in jail"?

    Bukele has reduced El Salvador's homicide rate from one of the worst in the world to one of the lowest in the Americas
    It's also absolutely certain that quite a lot of perfectly innocent individuals have been caught up in this sweep, BUT if most of the population feels that some semblance of order and personal safety has replaced the Wild West then it's small wonder that the authoritarian strongman responsible is quite popular. See also: Vladimir Putin's Russia, and any other country if conditions become sufficient desperate.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,877
    Should’ve been a speech from a Remainer in 2015

    “I’m not a politician; I’m a businessman with a sense of history. I’m also a Londoner. Our country is not an island anymore. We’re a leading European state. I believe this is a decade where London will become Europe’s capital.”
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,662

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    Prison is for little people.

    ETA maybe Rishi can ask Keir Starmer for a DPP view at next Leader of the Opposition's questions. If I were potentially in the firing line, that would worry me. As it is, the inquiry is kicking it into the long grass.
    If it's for little people, should the PM be worried?
    There's a much more serious debate to be had about criminal justice and the use of prisons. All I hear are how crowded or over crowded the prisons have become - presumably, like other forms of residential accommodation, we've not been building enough - El Salvador has a prison for 40,000 inmates (roughly the population of Aldershot).

    As usual, it's not an easy debate - you'll have on one side the "build more prisons, lock 'em up and throw away the key" types and on the other those who say since the prison population is so high, we should we looking at alternatives to incarceration. What proportion, for example, of the UK prison population aren't UK citizens?
    The prison situation in El Salvador is a mess. Essentially they have rounded up 40,000 people without trial or any judicial process and have now built what looks like something worse than a concentration camp to house them, 100 people per 100 sqm cell; on metal bunks; indefinetly. This is ultimately what happens when you have a populist government with no interest in human rights.
    And the president has just been re-elected with 85% of the vote, the most emphatic mandate in global democratic history, I think

    As he puts it: "what about the human rights of all the people that were getting shot, killed, chopped, raped and blown up by the gang bangers he has now put in jail"?

    Bukele has reduced El Salvador's homicide rate from one of the worst in the world to one of the lowest in the Americas
    Yes, and this is why Putin would win a free election, and why Saddam was so popular. Most people do not really care about political freedom because most people do not want to run their country. They just want a safe and comfortable home and work environment. But political freedom does seem to be the sine qua non of prosperity. Even resource-rich dictatorships collapse into corruption.
    I tend to disagree, and cite Singapore

    State directed capitalism and one party autocracy can work pretty well, as long as you have the rule of law (not true in Putin's Russia, of course)

    Most people in the world would be very happy to live in crime-free, super-rich Singapore

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,556

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    It's damning but isn't the issue of remote access a bit of a red herring? The problems were caused by bad transaction software rather than human intervention.
    Not if the software was generating bad transactions in both directions (deficit versus surplus in the postmasters' accounts) , but someone was remotely only deleting those in the one direction.
    There is also the tiny, tiny matter of organised serial perjury.
    And the use of well over a hundred million pounds, of what's effectively public money, on legal action to keep innocent people convicted.
    That’s just a side effect of the organised serial perjury.

    As I said the other day, I’m just waiting for the revelations

    1) that money was actually stolen. By post office investigators under orders from the Post Office to frame more innocent people. In conjunction with a drug cartel.

    2) that the coverup included vat growing genetically modified super-ninja to murder the witnesses.

    What else is left?
    Wasn't the money stolen, or at least misappropriated? The excess money paid in by subbies to try and balance the account was appropriated by the PO as its own as a special entry under its accounts, no? You'd think it odd they didn't wonder where it came from. To put it very, very mildly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,662
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    Prison is for little people.

    ETA maybe Rishi can ask Keir Starmer for a DPP view at next Leader of the Opposition's questions. If I were potentially in the firing line, that would worry me. As it is, the inquiry is kicking it into the long grass.
    If it's for little people, should the PM be worried?
    There's a much more serious debate to be had about criminal justice and the use of prisons. All I hear are how crowded or over crowded the prisons have become - presumably, like other forms of residential accommodation, we've not been building enough - El Salvador has a prison for 40,000 inmates (roughly the population of Aldershot).

    As usual, it's not an easy debate - you'll have on one side the "build more prisons, lock 'em up and throw away the key" types and on the other those who say since the prison population is so high, we should we looking at alternatives to incarceration. What proportion, for example, of the UK prison population aren't UK citizens?
    The prison situation in El Salvador is a mess. Essentially they have rounded up 40,000 people without trial or any judicial process and have now built what looks like something worse than a concentration camp to house them, 100 people per 100 sqm cell; on metal bunks; indefinetly. This is ultimately what happens when you have a populist government with no interest in human rights.
    And the president has just been re-elected with 85% of the vote, the most emphatic mandate in global democratic history, I think

    As he puts it: "what about the human rights of all the people that were getting shot, killed, chopped, raped and blown up by the gang bangers he has now put in jail"?

    Bukele has reduced El Salvador's homicide rate from one of the worst in the world to one of the lowest in the Americas
    It's also absolutely certain that quite a lot of perfectly innocent individuals have been caught up in this sweep, BUT if most of the population feels that some semblance of order and personal safety has replaced the Wild West then it's small wonder that the authoritarian strongman responsible is quite popular. See also: Vladimir Putin's Russia, and any other country if conditions become sufficient desperate.
    I've been researching Bukele, it's a very interesting experiment. There is no doubt that Bukele is genuinely and wildly popular. He has brought peace to a desperately violent country, no wonder they love him
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,662
    edited March 29
    Some stats: Bukele has put 60,000 people in jail. El Salvador has a population of just 6m

    So he's put 1% of the country behind bars. The equivalent in the UK would be 700,000 in jail. That is exceptionally brutal, but then El Salvador was exceptionally messed up, and probably required exceptional ruthlessness

    As long as you're not one of the 1%, or closely related to them, you will worship Bukele
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,166
    ydoethur said:

    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile in Russia: Vladislav Shurygin told Vladimir Solovyov that Ukrainians are animals who don't understand anything human. He suggested using cluster munitions and wiping out entire towns where Ukrainian soldiers' wives, children and parents live.
    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1773118657574420892

    Putin must be so happy that most of the GOP are treasonous scum . Anyone supporting Trump , anyone supporting Farage in the UK are all scum .
    I don't agree with this analysis.

    I think it's horrendous, demeaning and dangerous to compare the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene or Donald Trump to scum.

    I therefore call on you to withdraw that remark, and apologise to any scum that may have taken offence at the unjustified slur you have made.
    Yes. Some scum have their limits.

    https://youtu.be/Q4h6oO6y_Ss?si=slX7DbDiA7jgcxeV
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,816
    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    Prison is for little people.

    ETA maybe Rishi can ask Keir Starmer for a DPP view at next Leader of the Opposition's questions. If I were potentially in the firing line, that would worry me. As it is, the inquiry is kicking it into the long grass.
    If it's for little people, should the PM be worried?
    There's a much more serious debate to be had about criminal justice and the use of prisons. All I hear are how crowded or over crowded the prisons have become - presumably, like other forms of residential accommodation, we've not been building enough - El Salvador has a prison for 40,000 inmates (roughly the population of Aldershot).

    As usual, it's not an easy debate - you'll have on one side the "build more prisons, lock 'em up and throw away the key" types and on the other those who say since the prison population is so high, we should we looking at alternatives to incarceration. What proportion, for example, of the UK prison population aren't UK citizens?
    The prison situation in El Salvador is a mess. Essentially they have rounded up 40,000 people without trial or any judicial process and have now built what looks like something worse than a concentration camp to house them, 100 people per 100 sqm cell; on metal bunks; indefinetly. This is ultimately what happens when you have a populist government with no interest in human rights.
    And the president has just been re-elected with 85% of the vote, the most emphatic mandate in global democratic history, I think

    As he puts it: "what about the human rights of all the people that were getting shot, killed, chopped, raped and blown up by the gang bangers he has now put in jail"?

    Bukele has reduced El Salvador's homicide rate from one of the worst in the world to one of the lowest in the Americas
    There you have the paradox or dichotomy of freedom.

    For many people in the world, freedom means safety and security, the freedom to walk the streets without fear, the freedom to buy food and take it home to the family.

    That is freedom - not freedom of experession, the right to offend or the whole free speech debate. It's about feeling safe and secure in your world. For us, that comes with a large and largely unaccountable state security apparatus which shuts down terrorist plots to disrupt and destroy but the converse of that is security at the granular level. Can I walk down the High Street without being mugged late at night - will I be robbed of all my valuables and frightened to within an inch of my life by some thug?

    The emphasis is on terrorism but most people don't encounter terrorists, it's bog-standard crime they want Govenrments to spend time and money sorting out.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,840
    Leon said:

    Remarkable interview with Elon M. Using his own satellites speaking from his own plane

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akXMYvKjUxM

    He really is a kind of cartoon character, made real

    TL;DW: He says compute going into AI is increasing by ten times every six months. That's 100X a year. Wildly exponential, and he expects this to continue

    In that light he makes these predictions, a form of AGI - a computer smarter than any individual by next year, 2025, and a computer smarter than all of humanity combined, ASI, by 2029-30

    Five years away

    Now, I may be misconstruing him in some way, but that sounds like The Singularity. That is the world transformed - within 5 years. This is hurtling towards us at extraordinary speed. He actually says that - "I've never seen anything grow this fast"

    I know PB has quite a few Musko-skeptics, so maybe he is wrong on this (as he has been wrong on self driving cars, consistently). Alternatively, he is right, and whooooooh

    Musk's current view seems to be:
    *) Mass immigration is really bad. Immigrants should have parents who own emerald mines.
    *) The US's population needs to roughly triple, to a billion.
    *) He is concerned with population collapse.

    The only way to currently reconcile these views are to totally restrict women's reproduction rights, which oddly enough is something the (ahem) odder Republicans are in favour of.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 3,842
    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    Prison is for little people.

    ETA maybe Rishi can ask Keir Starmer for a DPP view at next Leader of the Opposition's questions. If I were potentially in the firing line, that would worry me. As it is, the inquiry is kicking it into the long grass.
    If it's for little people, should the PM be worried?
    There's a much more serious debate to be had about criminal justice and the use of prisons. All I hear are how crowded or over crowded the prisons have become - presumably, like other forms of residential accommodation, we've not been building enough - El Salvador has a prison for 40,000 inmates (roughly the population of Aldershot).

    As usual, it's not an easy debate - you'll have on one side the "build more prisons, lock 'em up and throw away the key" types and on the other those who say since the prison population is so high, we should we looking at alternatives to incarceration. What proportion, for example, of the UK prison population aren't UK citizens?
    The prison situation in El Salvador is a mess. Essentially they have rounded up 40,000 people without trial or any judicial process and have now built what looks like something worse than a concentration camp to house them, 100 people per 100 sqm cell; on metal bunks; indefinetly. This is ultimately what happens when you have a populist government with no interest in human rights.
    And the president has just been re-elected with 85% of the vote, the most emphatic mandate in global democratic history, I think

    As he puts it: "what about the human rights of all the people that were getting shot, killed, chopped, raped and blown up by the gang bangers he has now put in jail"?

    Bukele has reduced El Salvador's homicide rate from one of the worst in the world to one of the lowest in the Americas
    It's also absolutely certain that quite a lot of perfectly innocent individuals have been caught up in this sweep, BUT if most of the population feels that some semblance of order and personal safety has replaced the Wild West then it's small wonder that the authoritarian strongman responsible is quite popular. See also: Vladimir Putin's Russia, and any other country if conditions become sufficient desperate.
    I've been researching Bukele, it's a very interesting experiment. There is no doubt that Bukele is genuinely and wildly popular. He has brought peace to a desperately violent country, no wonder they love him
    Think you have misspelled Bukkake there Leon.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,166
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    It's damning but isn't the issue of remote access a bit of a red herring? The problems were caused by bad transaction software rather than human intervention.
    Not if the software was generating bad transactions in both directions (deficit versus surplus in the postmasters' accounts) , but someone was remotely only deleting those in the one direction.
    There is also the tiny, tiny matter of organised serial perjury.
    And the use of well over a hundred million pounds, of what's effectively public money, on legal action to keep innocent people convicted.
    That’s just a side effect of the organised serial perjury.

    As I said the other day, I’m just waiting for the revelations

    1) that money was actually stolen. By post office investigators under orders from the Post Office to frame more innocent people. In conjunction with a drug cartel.

    2) that the coverup included vat growing genetically modified super-ninja to murder the witnesses.

    What else is left?
    Wasn't the money stolen, or at least misappropriated? The excess money paid in by subbies to try and balance the account was appropriated by the PO as its own as a special entry under its accounts, no? You'd think it odd they didn't wonder where it came from. To put it very, very mildly.
    It was a *profit*.

    Next you’ll be asking if someone in the NKVD pointed out that they were sure finding a lot of British and American agents in the Russian population in 1936…

    Same thinking there. “Shut up and look at the profits”.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,129
    Carnyx said:

    pigeon said:

    It is highly likely labour will be in power not only in Westminster, but in Scotland as they are in Wales and the one benefit from this will be that neither Scotland or Wales will be able to blame the 'Tories' In Westminster for lack of funding and legislative problems which will remain, and likely deepen

    Unless, of course, they do actually decide to have a pop at Whitehall at regular intervals - special pleading for the primacy of their interests being rather part of the job, and the world being a somewhat different place to what it was when Labour was last in power at Westminster.

    You could even argue that using the richer half of England as a cash machine to bolster the finances of the rest of the country is a necessary consequence of a redistributive platform and of the whole levelling up schtick. We could argue all day about the degree to which this should apply to Scotland, but you can make a very good argument for Wales being short changed by the existing settlement.
    As the stir-fry cooks, I would suggest that there is certainly the question of how far SKS's policy thought is evolving (or devolving, one might say) compared to Llafur Cymru. I don't know the latter well enough but it's an issue which will be interesting for Slab - in fact, it already is, with at least one electoral candidate advocating SNP rather than UK Labour policies (e.g. on three children and benefits).
    My limited understanding suggests that Scottish Labour is probably, and Welsh Labour is certainly, to the left of what we're hearing out of the Westminster leadership. There's certainly grounds there for tension, which could develop quite rapidly if the Westminster Government insists on making a long list of promises not to raise most of the major taxes on both incomes and assets, and then imposes yet more austerity as a consequence.

    It certainly looks as if Labour intends to carry on with the current policy of allowing English councils to collapse into bankruptcy, so that local politicians can be blamed for the evisceration of services. This does not bode well for the finances of the devolved administrations.
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 413
    Leon said:

    Some stats: Bukele has put 60,000 people in jail. El Salvador has a population of just 6m

    So he's put 1% of the country behind bars. The equivalent in the UK would be 700,000 in jail. That is exceptionally brutal, but then El Salvador was exceptionally messed up, and probably required exceptional ruthlessness

    As long as you're not one of the 1%, or closely related to them, you will worship Bukele

    Last I heard he was in it with one of the big gangs. He probably cracked down on the others, and doubtless it will all work fine until the bottom falls out of crypto, which is presumably what's paying to kepp the enlarged prison population.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,593
    isam said:

    Should’ve been a speech from a Remainer in 2015

    “I’m not a politician; I’m a businessman with a sense of history. I’m also a Londoner. Our country is not an island anymore. We’re a leading European state. I believe this is a decade where London will become Europe’s capital.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVoTehKTc60

    See also

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9guKu6s19Fw
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,569
    Yes still too high.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,463

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    2nd.

    Just listening to the ITV Post Office tape.

    This sounds like several senior people potentially behind bars.

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1773475971292627072

    It's damning but isn't the issue of remote access a bit of a red herring? The problems were caused by bad transaction software rather than human intervention.
    Not if the software was generating bad transactions in both directions (deficit versus surplus in the postmasters' accounts) , but someone was remotely only deleting those in the one direction.
    There is also the tiny, tiny matter of organised serial perjury.
    And the use of well over a hundred million pounds, of what's effectively public money, on legal action to keep innocent people convicted.
    That’s just a side effect of the organised serial perjury.

    As I said the other day, I’m just waiting for the revelations

    1) that money was actually stolen. By post office investigators under orders from the Post Office to frame more innocent people. In conjunction with a drug cartel.

    2) that the coverup included vat growing genetically modified super-ninja to murder the witnesses.

    What else is left?
    Is not "serial perjury" also perversion of justice? In at least one of the Three Kingdoms & a Principality!

    Am rather attached to PoJ, as it was the main charge at the trial of The Lord . . . wait for it . . . Archer of Weston-super-Mare.

    Only time yours truly ever observed a classic (in more ways than one) English trial at the Old Bailey, over several days.

    Had better view of proceedings up in visitor's gallery than the press corps. For example, one day they all reported that Archer was taking copious notes of the proceedings (consisting of damning testimony from variety of those he'd connived with, conned and/or betrayed).

    When, as we plebes in the cheap seats could plainly see, the defendant was actually going through his appointments diary. Making note here and there - maybe about the trial, but more likely re: schedule - and crossing a LOT of engagements off his dance card for the foreseeable (back then) future.

    Smart planning.

    It was interesting observing the trial when court was in session, then reading about it in every evening and morning newspaper. Being a tourist limited myself to merely a half-dozen or thereabouts.

    At one point, was standing on the sidewalk in front (or was it out back?) of the Criminal Court, waiting for Archer to depart via classic car, along with small throng of fellow gawkers, when a photographer (or was he paparazzi?) requested me (firmly) to absent myself from his camera angle.

    I complied . . . and the rest as they say is history.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,593
    isam said:

    Should’ve been a speech from a Remainer in 2015

    “I’m not a politician; I’m a businessman with a sense of history. I’m also a Londoner. Our country is not an island anymore. We’re a leading European state. I believe this is a decade where London will become Europe’s capital.”

    The Long Good Friday. Oh, I see what you did there. :)
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