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And now for something completely different – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,917
edited April 28 in General
And now for something completely different – politicalbetting.com

Who should play Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer in the movie of their lives?https://t.co/jBlv7RVlRQ pic.twitter.com/cD5bXA1QpJ

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  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    On point 2. Rat to play Rishi Sunak? What’s that all about?


  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,547
    FPT
    Leon said:
    » show previous quotes
    I was pointing more to the narrative than the facts (and I should have said that, apologies)

    One reason Trump is doing well is the PERCEPTION the country is going to shit in multiple ways. Now from some angles it is true: Biden really has lost control of the border (with help from treacherous republicans)

    In other ways it is not true at all. Biden’s economic record is excellent - and yet he doesn’t get credit for it

    In other fields - law and order - the picture is mixed. Ditto foreign policy. Sure Biden is strong in Ukraine but the bald fact is: there weren’t any of these wars when Trump was in power

    I said:
    I agree with the perception point. Trump, of course, does a lot to build these perceptions but they are false.

    Whilst Trump was in power wars were still going on in Afghanistan. Casualties there is something else he lied about:https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-afghanistan-troops-killed-659053265479

    It was Biden that bit the bullet and got America out of there, not Trump. And the Ukraine war is expensive but it is not producing a lot of US body bags (there have been some due to volunteers, not regular army).

    The border is a major problem for Biden, probably his biggest, but the sinking of a cross party bill on Trump's instructions has hopefully defused it somewhat.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,547
    edited March 17
    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    The Muppet version of A Christmas Carol. Best Christmas movie ever. Even better than Die Hard.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,733
    Sir Keir will be pretty happy with Colin Firth. Wasn’t there a weird theory that the Mark Darcy character Firth plays in Bridget Jones’ Diary was based on Starmer?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033
    edited March 17
    Warwick Davis will be gutted he didn't make the shortlist.

    Edit - That last word wasn't actually deliberate. I'm pondering now whether it shows I'm a bad person full of unintentional prejudice.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,767
    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    "A Muppet Schindler's List"? "Deliverance", actually featuring Miss Piggy? Not wholly convinced.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033
    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    The Muppet version of A Christmas Carol. Best Christmas movie ever. Even better than Die Hard.
    If you keep making comments like that you'll be left at home, alone.

    Like Sunak...
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,547
    I think Colin Firth would make quite a good Starmer actually. Especially if he could get a couple of pints down first to master that slightly glazed look.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,767
    ydoethur said:

    Warwick Davis will be gutted he didn't make the shortlist.

    Edit - That last word wasn't actually deliberate. I'm pondering now whether it shows I'm a bad person full of unintentional prejudice.

    You deserve to be cut down to size.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,547
    ydoethur said:

    Warwick Davis will be gutted he didn't make the shortlist.

    Edit - That last word wasn't actually deliberate. I'm pondering now whether it shows I'm a bad person full of unintentional prejudice.

    You're still wondering that? I suggest you don't come to Scotland after April 1st. Police Scotland would probably want a word (as long as you weren't doing anything actually criminal , of course).
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,727
    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    How could you do a movie on the Tory party without featuring the muppets?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033
    edited March 17
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Warwick Davis will be gutted he didn't make the shortlist.

    Edit - That last word wasn't actually deliberate. I'm pondering now whether it shows I'm a bad person full of unintentional prejudice.

    You're still wondering that? I suggest you don't come to Scotland after April 1st. Police Scotland would probably want a word (as long as you weren't doing anything actually criminal , of course).
    Given how slowly those buggers investigate, I'd be in San Francisco by the time they made a charging decision.

    Even if I went the whole way by pedalo.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,547

    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    How could you do a movie on the Tory party without featuring the muppets?
    Indeed. Who would do this song: https://youtu.be/sb3tHsCLWsI

    The competition would be fierce.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202

    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    On point 2. Rat to play Rishi Sunak? What’s that all about?


    I prefer this one - new BBC news presenter Kylie Pentelow is going to whack Rishi with a frying pan


  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,363
    Isn't Cruise 5"8? Al Pacino is the same height as Sunak I think.

    There's no likeness between Firth and Starmer. What about Gary Oldman? (in the unlikely circumstancs the part was going).
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,308

    Sir Keir will be pretty happy with Colin Firth. Wasn’t there a weird theory that the Mark Darcy character Firth plays in Bridget Jones’ Diary was based on Starmer?

    Was that weird theory propagated by a Mr Starmer, by any chance?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,308
    ydoethur said:

    Warwick Davis will be gutted he didn't make the shortlist.

    Edit - That last word wasn't actually deliberate. I'm pondering now whether it shows I'm a bad person full of unintentional prejudice.

    We're all full of unintentional prejudices, it doesn't make us bad people.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 26,061
    Point 4 suggests Lord Ashcroft does not realise just how old Rowan Atkinson is.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 5,085
    edited March 17
    Tilda Swinton for Sunak and Idris Elba for Starmer.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 13,311
    Afternoon all :)

    Speaking of strange polls, is anyone the wiser about this poll in the Mail on Sunday? All I can glean from the article is it was paid for "by corporate business" and shows Labour heading for a majority of between 50 and 250 seats.

    There's no sign of a VI, no sign of any data tables but apparently it was conducted "in every constituency".

    Survation are the Mail on Sunday's usual pollsters but strange how this poll is reported in that "newspaper" and nowhere else.

    Back on topic, I know there are people who make good money by looking like someone famous. There was a very good Prince William out there and no doubt others but can you imagine anyone trying to make a living by looking like Rishi Sunak or Keir Starmer or Ed Davey or Richard Tice or Nigel Farage?

    Me neither.

    In Las Vegas, on The Strip, someone looking very much like Austin Powers wanted me to have my photo taken with them for $25 so I did my best Austin Powers English accent. The poor man stopped dead in his tracks - his accent was pure midwestern. We talked for a moment and he said in his drawl "with your voice and my looks, we'd own this town".
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,363
    Whilst no-one should be judged based on where they went to school, Hugh Grant attended Godolphin and Latymer and acts like someone who attended Godolfin and Latymer. That's not really Starmer.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,363
    Vince Cable's line about Mr Bean still has resonance?
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,363
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Warwick Davis will be gutted he didn't make the shortlist.

    Edit - That last word wasn't actually deliberate. I'm pondering now whether it shows I'm a bad person full of unintentional prejudice.

    We're all full of unintentional prejudices, it doesn't make us bad people.
    'Pound for pound Warwick Davis is one of the funniest people I know.'

    Ricky Gervais.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 13,311
    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    How could you do a movie on the Tory party without featuring the muppets?
    Unkind.

    To muppets.
    "This Government isn't HALF bad."

    "No, it's ALL bad".
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,965
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Speaking of strange polls, is anyone the wiser about this poll in the Mail on Sunday? All I can glean from the article is it was paid for "by corporate business" and shows Labour heading for a majority of between 50 and 250 seats.

    There's no sign of a VI, no sign of any data tables but apparently it was conducted "in every constituency".

    Survation are the Mail on Sunday's usual pollsters but strange how this poll is reported in that "newspaper" and nowhere else.

    Back on topic, I know there are people who make good money by looking like someone famous. There was a very good Prince William out there and no doubt others but can you imagine anyone trying to make a living by looking like Rishi Sunak or Keir Starmer or Ed Davey or Richard Tice or Nigel Farage?

    Me neither.

    In Las Vegas, on The Strip, someone looking very much like Austin Powers wanted me to have my photo taken with them for $25 so I did my best Austin Powers English accent. The poor man stopped dead in his tracks - his accent was pure midwestern. We talked for a moment and he said in his drawl "with your voice and my looks, we'd own this town".

    Heading for a majority between 50 and 250?
    Heck. I could have told them that for a tenth of the price.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    Tremendously disturbing poll from France, on French Muslim attitudes

    Horror after horror. From the Journale du Dimanche

    49% of French Muslims want Catholics to convert to Islam

    36% percent want churches to be transformed into mosques...

    25% of French Muslims said that the word "France" is a word they reject.

    17% of French Muslims admit that they hate Jews.

    39% say they have a bad, or very bad, opinion of Judaism

    45% of French Muslims say they want the total destruction of Israel. An equivalent number of French Muslims define the massacre rape, torture, beheadings and burning alive of Jews by Hamas terrorists in Israel on October 7, 2023, as an "act of resistance".

    42% of French Muslims place respect for Islamic Sharia law above respect for the laws of the French republic (the percentage rises to 57% among young Muslims aged 18 to 25).

    70% of French prisoners are Muslim


    https://www.lejdd.fr/societe/sondage-dans-la-tete-des-musulmans-de-france-141612

    And its the young who are the most radical and Islamist

    A terrible reckoning is coming. I imagine it will start with President Le Pen
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,677
    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    How could you do a movie on the Tory party without featuring the muppets?
    Unkind.

    To muppets.
    "This Government isn't HALF bad."

    "No, it's ALL bad".
    Going by age and income, Waldorf and Statler are basically Conservative core vote.

    I'd like to think they have just enough sense of the absurd not to vote blue this time round. Their loyalty, always going back even when they knew the show would be terrible, appealed to me as a child.

    I was a strange child.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,363
    Mission Impossible IX

    Win the Tories an election when 20 points behind in the polls.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,908
    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    With Sir Michael Caine in which role ?
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 13,311

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    How could you do a movie on the Tory party without featuring the muppets?
    Unkind.

    To muppets.
    "This Government isn't HALF bad."

    "No, it's ALL bad".
    Going by age and income, Waldorf and Statler are basically Conservative core vote.

    I'd like to think they have just enough sense of the absurd not to vote blue this time round. Their loyalty, always going back even when they knew the show would be terrible, appealed to me as a child.

    I was a strange child.
    Yes, I liked them, the Swedish Chef, Sam the American Eagle, Bunsen Honeydew and Beaker. They were the real talents.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    Le Crunching some numbers here

    France has a Muslim population of about six million, just under 9% of the country

    If 17% of them “hate Jews” that’s exactly one million Jew haters. In France. And these are the ones willing to admit it! And the younger are MORE likely to be radical and anti-Semitic

    And nearly 3 million French Muslims want Israel completely destroyed

    The centre cannot hold
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 13,311
    dixiedean said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Speaking of strange polls, is anyone the wiser about this poll in the Mail on Sunday? All I can glean from the article is it was paid for "by corporate business" and shows Labour heading for a majority of between 50 and 250 seats.

    There's no sign of a VI, no sign of any data tables but apparently it was conducted "in every constituency".

    Survation are the Mail on Sunday's usual pollsters but strange how this poll is reported in that "newspaper" and nowhere else.

    Back on topic, I know there are people who make good money by looking like someone famous. There was a very good Prince William out there and no doubt others but can you imagine anyone trying to make a living by looking like Rishi Sunak or Keir Starmer or Ed Davey or Richard Tice or Nigel Farage?

    Me neither.

    In Las Vegas, on The Strip, someone looking very much like Austin Powers wanted me to have my photo taken with them for $25 so I did my best Austin Powers English accent. The poor man stopped dead in his tracks - his accent was pure midwestern. We talked for a moment and he said in his drawl "with your voice and my looks, we'd own this town".

    Heading for a majority between 50 and 250?
    Heck. I could have told them that for a tenth of the price.
    I might have told them 30 to 300 to completely cover my back.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,763
    DavidL said:

    I think Colin Firth would make quite a good Starmer actually. Especially if he could get a couple of pints down first to master that slightly glazed look.

    ...and a curry?

    Oh don't start that again.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,763
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    How could you do a movie on the Tory party without featuring the muppets?
    Unkind.

    To muppets.
    "This Government isn't HALF bad."

    "No, it's ALL bad".
    Going by age and income, Waldorf and Statler are basically Conservative core vote.

    I'd like to think they have just enough sense of the absurd not to vote blue this time round. Their loyalty, always going back even when they knew the show would be terrible, appealed to me as a child.

    I was a strange child.
    Yes, I liked them, the Swedish Chef, Sam the American Eagle, Bunsen Honeydew and Beaker. They were the real talents.
    Beaker to play Johnson? Hat-tip to Rochdale for that one.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,156
    Norman Wisdom would have played a good Rishi Sunak.

    Boyish grin, positive, hopeless, similar height



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ub4MRxHxcA
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,363
    edited March 17
    Liverpool have gone strong vs Manchester United.

    Nonetheless I'd question if they are all fully fit. United 3/1?????
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,639
    Barnesian said:

    Norman Wisdom would have played a good Rishi Sunak.

    Boyish grin, positive, hopeless, similar height



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ub4MRxHxcA

    But too much charisma.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,677
    Chris said:

    Barnesian said:

    Norman Wisdom would have played a good Rishi Sunak.

    Boyish grin, positive, hopeless, similar height



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ub4MRxHxcA

    But too much charisma.
    And wisdom.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,031
    Barnesian said:

    Norman Wisdom would have played a good Rishi Sunak.

    Boyish grin, positive, hopeless, similar height



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ub4MRxHxcA

    And even though he’s tiny, suits still too small for him.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033
    edited March 17

    Chris said:

    Barnesian said:

    Norman Wisdom would have played a good Rishi Sunak.

    Boyish grin, positive, hopeless, similar height



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ub4MRxHxcA

    But too much charisma.
    And wisdom.
    To be fair to Sunak, nobody to my knowledge has accused him of being a highly creepy sexual predator. So I'm not going to agree with that.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,639
    Leon said:

    Tremendously disturbing poll from France, on French Muslim attitudes

    Horror after horror. From the Journale du Dimanche

    49% of French Muslims want Catholics to convert to Islam

    36% percent want churches to be transformed into mosques...

    25% of French Muslims said that the word "France" is a word they reject.

    17% of French Muslims admit that they hate Jews.

    39% say they have a bad, or very bad, opinion of Judaism

    45% of French Muslims say they want the total destruction of Israel. An equivalent number of French Muslims define the massacre rape, torture, beheadings and burning alive of Jews by Hamas terrorists in Israel on October 7, 2023, as an "act of resistance".

    42% of French Muslims place respect for Islamic Sharia law above respect for the laws of the French republic (the percentage rises to 57% among young Muslims aged 18 to 25).

    70% of French prisoners are Muslim


    https://www.lejdd.fr/societe/sondage-dans-la-tete-des-musulmans-de-france-141612

    And its the young who are the most radical and Islamist

    A terrible reckoning is coming. I imagine it will start with President Le Pen

    How about: 99.5% of Internet trolls just want to provoke online arguments because of a psychological inadequacy and because they are incapable of engaging in normal human relationships.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 26,061
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    With Sir Michael Caine in which role ?
    Have you seen Michael Caine lately? He is even older than Rowan Atkinson. (Just checked: he is 91.)
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 46,429
    A
    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Tremendously disturbing poll from France, on French Muslim attitudes

    Horror after horror. From the Journale du Dimanche

    49% of French Muslims want Catholics to convert to Islam

    36% percent want churches to be transformed into mosques...

    25% of French Muslims said that the word "France" is a word they reject.

    17% of French Muslims admit that they hate Jews.

    39% say they have a bad, or very bad, opinion of Judaism

    45% of French Muslims say they want the total destruction of Israel. An equivalent number of French Muslims define the massacre rape, torture, beheadings and burning alive of Jews by Hamas terrorists in Israel on October 7, 2023, as an "act of resistance".

    42% of French Muslims place respect for Islamic Sharia law above respect for the laws of the French republic (the percentage rises to 57% among young Muslims aged 18 to 25).

    70% of French prisoners are Muslim


    https://www.lejdd.fr/societe/sondage-dans-la-tete-des-musulmans-de-france-141612

    And its the young who are the most radical and Islamist

    A terrible reckoning is coming. I imagine it will start with President Le Pen

    How about: 99.5% of Internet trolls just want to provoke online arguments because of a psychological inadequacy and because they are incapable of engaging in normal human relationships.
    99.5 is a made up, bullshit number

    It 99.965% and I’ll die on that hill.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 13,311
    Leon said:

    Le Crunching some numbers here

    France has a Muslim population of about six million, just under 9% of the country

    If 17% of them “hate Jews” that’s exactly one million Jew haters. In France. And these are the ones willing to admit it! And the younger are MORE likely to be radical and anti-Semitic

    And nearly 3 million French Muslims want Israel completely destroyed

    The centre cannot hold

    The current Prime Minister, Gabriel Attal, could well be the En Marche candidate against Le Pen. He has brought members of Les Republicians into the Government so arguably is a more conservative leaning centrist. I think he will be a difficult opponent for Le Pen but he will rely on the socialists and others preferring him to Le Pen in the second round as they did with Macron.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Tremendously disturbing poll from France, on French Muslim attitudes

    Horror after horror. From the Journale du Dimanche

    49% of French Muslims want Catholics to convert to Islam

    36% percent want churches to be transformed into mosques...

    25% of French Muslims said that the word "France" is a word they reject.

    17% of French Muslims admit that they hate Jews.

    39% say they have a bad, or very bad, opinion of Judaism

    45% of French Muslims say they want the total destruction of Israel. An equivalent number of French Muslims define the massacre rape, torture, beheadings and burning alive of Jews by Hamas terrorists in Israel on October 7, 2023, as an "act of resistance".

    42% of French Muslims place respect for Islamic Sharia law above respect for the laws of the French republic (the percentage rises to 57% among young Muslims aged 18 to 25).

    70% of French prisoners are Muslim


    https://www.lejdd.fr/societe/sondage-dans-la-tete-des-musulmans-de-france-141612

    And its the young who are the most radical and Islamist

    A terrible reckoning is coming. I imagine it will start with President Le Pen

    How about: 99.5% of Internet trolls just want to provoke online arguments because of a psychological inadequacy and because they are incapable of engaging in normal human relationships.
    I note that you are not disputing any of the numbers, and instead you answer by attacking me personally?

    Do you think that YOU might be the inadequate here?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,965

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    With Sir Michael Caine in which role ?
    Have you seen Michael Caine lately? He is even older than Rowan Atkinson. (Just checked: he is 91.)
    He could play the US President then.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    Le Crunching some numbers here

    France has a Muslim population of about six million, just under 9% of the country

    If 17% of them “hate Jews” that’s exactly one million Jew haters. In France. And these are the ones willing to admit it! And the younger are MORE likely to be radical and anti-Semitic

    And nearly 3 million French Muslims want Israel completely destroyed

    The centre cannot hold

    The current Prime Minister, Gabriel Attal, could well be the En Marche candidate against Le Pen. He has brought members of Les Republicians into the Government so arguably is a more conservative leaning centrist. I think he will be a difficult opponent for Le Pen but he will rely on the socialists and others preferring him to Le Pen in the second round as they did with Macron.
    I sense the momentum is with Le Pen

    She’s cleverly detoxed herself and now poses as the solidly patriotic right winger. She’s even dropped some of her Putin-love

    If I was to make a bet today, I would bet on her winning
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,883
    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    With Sir Michael Caine in which role ?
    Have you seen Michael Caine lately? He is even older than Rowan Atkinson. (Just checked: he is 91.)
    He could play the US President then.
    No actor is old enough to play the US President unless they were on stage in the theatre when Lincoln was assassinated.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,308
    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    Barnesian said:

    Norman Wisdom would have played a good Rishi Sunak.

    Boyish grin, positive, hopeless, similar height



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ub4MRxHxcA

    But too much charisma.
    And wisdom.
    To be fair to Sunak, nobody to my knowledge has accused him of being a highly creepy sexual predator. So I'm not going to agree with that.
    Were the words "highly creepy" necessary?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    Imagine if you are French and Jewish, looking at those stats. 1m mainly young French Muslim people HATE you, just for being Jewish, and they are happy to admit it

    3 million want to see your homeland - Israel - destroyed entirely

    Meanwhile half of them want Islam to take over France and impose shariah law on all France

    Would you, as a Jew, feel safe in France?
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,883
    Incidentally, on June 28th this year we will be as long from the date of Biden's birth as Biden's birth was from the start of the US Civil War.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,883
    Leon said:

    Imagine if you are French and Jewish, looking at those stats. 1m mainly young French Muslim people HATE you, just for being Jewish, and they are happy to admit it

    3 million want to see your homeland - Israel - destroyed entirely

    Meanwhile half of them want Islam to take over France and impose shariah law on all France

    Would you, as a Jew, feel safe in France?

    I would think that there would be good reason for most Jews not to feel safe in most places, and, similarly, if they're not actively thinking about those reasons then they might feel safe pretty much anywhere, unless they've had personal experience to make them feel otherwise.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 51,737

    Incidentally, on June 28th this year we will be as long from the date of Biden's birth as Biden's birth was from the start of the US Civil War.

    That’s one hell of a statistic. People see the Civil War as being ancient history, and often fail to comprehend recent historical dates.

    I was born only eight years after Neil Armstrong stood on the moon, but it might as well have been 80 years for all I remember of it!
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187

    Leon said:

    Imagine if you are French and Jewish, looking at those stats. 1m mainly young French Muslim people HATE you, just for being Jewish, and they are happy to admit it

    3 million want to see your homeland - Israel - destroyed entirely

    Meanwhile half of them want Islam to take over France and impose shariah law on all France

    Would you, as a Jew, feel safe in France?

    I would think that there would be good reason for most Jews not to feel safe in most places, and, similarly, if they're not actively thinking about those reasons then they might feel safe pretty much anywhere, unless they've had personal experience to make them feel otherwise.
    Ironically, European Jews are now much much safer in EASTERN Europe (historically the cradle of anti-Semitism) - because Eastern Europe has tiny Muslim populations

    Or south east Asia. No history of anti Semitism

    If I was Jewish and rich I’d move to Singapore, if I was less rich I’d move to Cambodia or Thailand
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,908

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    With Sir Michael Caine in which role ?
    Have you seen Michael Caine lately? He is even older than Rowan Atkinson. (Just checked: he is 91.)
    Ken Clarke ?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 20,487
    edited March 17
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine if you are French and Jewish, looking at those stats. 1m mainly young French Muslim people HATE you, just for being Jewish, and they are happy to admit it

    3 million want to see your homeland - Israel - destroyed entirely

    Meanwhile half of them want Islam to take over France and impose shariah law on all France

    Would you, as a Jew, feel safe in France?

    I would think that there would be good reason for most Jews not to feel safe in most places, and, similarly, if they're not actively thinking about those reasons then they might feel safe pretty much anywhere, unless they've had personal experience to make them feel otherwise.
    Ironically, European Jews are now much much safer in EASTERN Europe (historically the cradle of anti-Semitism) - because Eastern Europe has tiny Muslim populations

    Or south east Asia. No history of anti Semitism

    If I was Jewish and rich I’d move to Singapore, if I was less rich I’d move to Cambodia or Thailand
    Antisemitism in Indonesia, in South East Asia, for example.
    https://thediplomat.com/2022/02/opening-of-indonesian-holocaust-museum-met-with-islamist-backlash/

    But in the days after its opening, a number of Indonesian Muslim leaders, including several senior members of the influential Indonesian Council of Ulama (Majelis Ulama Indonesia, MUI) declared that the museum should be shut down, on the grounds that it could cause “communal tensions.” MUI Vice President Muhyidin Junaidi opined that “the presence of the museum is politically tendentious and a provocation to cause uproar among the people.”

    I hardly need to mention Pakistan and other places in South Asia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Pakistan

    I'd suggest the root cause here is certain "revealed by God" attitudes / values which are foundational in Islam. A tricky one to deal with in less than 500 years.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,109
    edited March 17
    @Casino_Royale should move to Texas.
    Large swathes of the US are fiercely and proudly anti-woke, and no more so than the Lone Star State, where vegetarianism is strictly reserved for homosexuals in Austin.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 51,737
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine if you are French and Jewish, looking at those stats. 1m mainly young French Muslim people HATE you, just for being Jewish, and they are happy to admit it

    3 million want to see your homeland - Israel - destroyed entirely

    Meanwhile half of them want Islam to take over France and impose shariah law on all France

    Would you, as a Jew, feel safe in France?

    I would think that there would be good reason for most Jews not to feel safe in most places, and, similarly, if they're not actively thinking about those reasons then they might feel safe pretty much anywhere, unless they've had personal experience to make them feel otherwise.
    Ironically, European Jews are now much much safer in EASTERN Europe (historically the cradle of anti-Semitism) - because Eastern Europe has tiny Muslim populations

    Or south east Asia. No history of anti Semitism

    If I was Jewish and rich I’d move to Singapore, if I was less rich I’d move to Cambodia or Thailand
    Antisemitism in Indonesia, for example.
    https://thediplomat.com/2022/02/opening-of-indonesian-holocaust-museum-met-with-islamist-backlash/

    But in the days after its opening, a number of Indonesian Muslim leaders, including several senior members of the influential Indonesian Council of Ulama (Majelis Ulama Indonesia, MUI) declared that the museum should be shut down, on the grounds that it could cause “communal tensions.” MUI Vice President Muhyidin Junaidi opined that “the presence of the museum is politically tendentious and a provocation to cause uproar among the people.”

    I hardly need to mention Pakistan and other places in South Asia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Pakistan

    I'd suggest the root cause here is certain "revealed by God" attitudes / values which are foundational in Islam. A tricky one to deal with in less than 500 years.
    Send them all to this place, an hour’s drive from where I live, and tell them to get along.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_Family_House

    It’s a Church, a Synagogue, and a Mosque, all on the same site, from where people can learn about other faiths and understand that their similarities are more than their differences.

    Oh, and trade. People don’t go to war with places with whom they trade.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,109
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    Barnesian said:

    Norman Wisdom would have played a good Rishi Sunak.

    Boyish grin, positive, hopeless, similar height



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ub4MRxHxcA

    But too much charisma.
    And wisdom.
    To be fair to Sunak, nobody to my knowledge has accused him of being a highly creepy sexual predator. So I'm not going to agree with that.
    Were the words "highly creepy" necessary?
    Did I miss the Norman Wisdom scandal?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine if you are French and Jewish, looking at those stats. 1m mainly young French Muslim people HATE you, just for being Jewish, and they are happy to admit it

    3 million want to see your homeland - Israel - destroyed entirely

    Meanwhile half of them want Islam to take over France and impose shariah law on all France

    Would you, as a Jew, feel safe in France?

    I would think that there would be good reason for most Jews not to feel safe in most places, and, similarly, if they're not actively thinking about those reasons then they might feel safe pretty much anywhere, unless they've had personal experience to make them feel otherwise.
    Ironically, European Jews are now much much safer in EASTERN Europe (historically the cradle of anti-Semitism) - because Eastern Europe has tiny Muslim populations

    Or south east Asia. No history of anti Semitism

    If I was Jewish and rich I’d move to Singapore, if I was less rich I’d move to Cambodia or Thailand
    Antisemitism in Indonesia, in South East Asia, for example.
    https://thediplomat.com/2022/02/opening-of-indonesian-holocaust-museum-met-with-islamist-backlash/

    But in the days after its opening, a number of Indonesian Muslim leaders, including several senior members of the influential Indonesian Council of Ulama (Majelis Ulama Indonesia, MUI) declared that the museum should be shut down, on the grounds that it could cause “communal tensions.” MUI Vice President Muhyidin Junaidi opined that “the presence of the museum is politically tendentious and a provocation to cause uproar among the people.”

    I hardly need to mention Pakistan and other places in South Asia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Pakistan

    I'd suggest the root cause here is certain "revealed by God" attitudes / values which are foundational in Islam. A tricky one to deal with in less than 500 years.
    Well, yeah, you wouldn’t go to MUSLIM South Asia. No. But polls show Buddhist Asia is possibly the least anti semitic place on earth - eg Laos

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-10-most-anti-semitic-countries/
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    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,873

    Incidentally, on June 28th this year we will be as long from the date of Biden's birth as Biden's birth was from the start of the US Civil War.

    and Trump´s from the assassination of Lincoln.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine if you are French and Jewish, looking at those stats. 1m mainly young French Muslim people HATE you, just for being Jewish, and they are happy to admit it

    3 million want to see your homeland - Israel - destroyed entirely

    Meanwhile half of them want Islam to take over France and impose shariah law on all France

    Would you, as a Jew, feel safe in France?

    I would think that there would be good reason for most Jews not to feel safe in most places, and, similarly, if they're not actively thinking about those reasons then they might feel safe pretty much anywhere, unless they've had personal experience to make them feel otherwise.
    Ironically, European Jews are now much much safer in EASTERN Europe (historically the cradle of anti-Semitism) - because Eastern Europe has tiny Muslim populations

    Or south east Asia. No history of anti Semitism

    If I was Jewish and rich I’d move to Singapore, if I was less rich I’d move to Cambodia or Thailand
    Antisemitism in Indonesia, for example.
    https://thediplomat.com/2022/02/opening-of-indonesian-holocaust-museum-met-with-islamist-backlash/

    But in the days after its opening, a number of Indonesian Muslim leaders, including several senior members of the influential Indonesian Council of Ulama (Majelis Ulama Indonesia, MUI) declared that the museum should be shut down, on the grounds that it could cause “communal tensions.” MUI Vice President Muhyidin Junaidi opined that “the presence of the museum is politically tendentious and a provocation to cause uproar among the people.”

    I hardly need to mention Pakistan and other places in South Asia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Pakistan

    I'd suggest the root cause here is certain "revealed by God" attitudes / values which are foundational in Islam. A tricky one to deal with in less than 500 years.
    Send them all to this place, an hour’s drive from where I live, and tell them to get along.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_Family_House

    It’s a Church, a Synagogue, and a Mosque, all on the same site, from where people can learn about other faiths and understand that their similarities are more than their differences.

    Oh, and trade. People don’t go to war with places with whom they trade.
    Er, yes they do. Sadly
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    edited March 17
    If I was a Jew I don’t think I’d feel safe in large parts of london - if I was wearing a skullcap or Star of David necklace, or walking into a synagogue or a Jewish school

    Ditto Paris or any number of Western European cities

    What a tragic thing we have done
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,708
    Sandpit said:

    Incidentally, on June 28th this year we will be as long from the date of Biden's birth as Biden's birth was from the start of the US Civil War.

    That’s one hell of a statistic. People see the Civil War as being ancient history, and often fail to comprehend recent historical dates.

    I was born only eight years after Neil Armstrong stood on the moon, but it might as well have been 80 years for all I remember of it!
    Hoy! I remember Armstronjg and Aldrin on the moon.

    Though it's only recently that the last ACW pension ceased being paid.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/irene-triplett-last-person-american-civil-war-pension-dies
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,224
    edited March 17
    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Tremendously disturbing poll from France, on French Muslim attitudes

    Horror after horror. From the Journale du Dimanche

    49% of French Muslims want Catholics to convert to Islam

    36% percent want churches to be transformed into mosques...

    25% of French Muslims said that the word "France" is a word they reject.

    17% of French Muslims admit that they hate Jews.

    39% say they have a bad, or very bad, opinion of Judaism

    45% of French Muslims say they want the total destruction of Israel. An equivalent number of French Muslims define the massacre rape, torture, beheadings and burning alive of Jews by Hamas terrorists in Israel on October 7, 2023, as an "act of resistance".

    42% of French Muslims place respect for Islamic Sharia law above respect for the laws of the French republic (the percentage rises to 57% among young Muslims aged 18 to 25).

    70% of French prisoners are Muslim


    https://www.lejdd.fr/societe/sondage-dans-la-tete-des-musulmans-de-france-141612

    And its the young who are the most radical and Islamist

    A terrible reckoning is coming. I imagine it will start with President Le Pen

    How about: 99.5% of Internet trolls just want to provoke online arguments because of a psychological inadequacy and because they are incapable of engaging in normal human relationships.
    For many on the right the interest in anti-jewish prejudice is principally a function of their anti-muslim prejudice.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    kinabalu said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Tremendously disturbing poll from France, on French Muslim attitudes

    Horror after horror. From the Journale du Dimanche

    49% of French Muslims want Catholics to convert to Islam

    36% percent want churches to be transformed into mosques...

    25% of French Muslims said that the word "France" is a word they reject.

    17% of French Muslims admit that they hate Jews.

    39% say they have a bad, or very bad, opinion of Judaism

    45% of French Muslims say they want the total destruction of Israel. An equivalent number of French Muslims define the massacre rape, torture, beheadings and burning alive of Jews by Hamas terrorists in Israel on October 7, 2023, as an "act of resistance".

    42% of French Muslims place respect for Islamic Sharia law above respect for the laws of the French republic (the percentage rises to 57% among young Muslims aged 18 to 25).

    70% of French prisoners are Muslim


    https://www.lejdd.fr/societe/sondage-dans-la-tete-des-musulmans-de-france-141612

    And its the young who are the most radical and Islamist

    A terrible reckoning is coming. I imagine it will start with President Le Pen

    How about: 99.5% of Internet trolls just want to provoke online arguments because of a psychological inadequacy and because they are incapable of engaging in normal human relationships.
    For many on the right the interest in anti-jewish prejudice is principally a function of their anti-muslim prejudice.
    Alternatively, they have very good Jewish friends in north London who have, for the first time, said “I am afraid to be Jewish in the UK”

    There’s always that possibility, as well, alongside your dribbling nonsense which presumably consoles you
  • Options
    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,907
    FPT
    Leon said:

    I’ve been challenged to come up with a photo more striking than the volcano photo by @Foxy’s sister in law. I could just show you better volcano photos - right by the lava - that I took in Erta Ale, Ethiopia, but that’s too easy

    So here’s a truly weird photo, enclosing a mystery I have never unravelled. Perhaps PB can

    Picture it. A decade ago I find myself with some spare days during a stone toy research trip in the Atacama desert, Chile. So I decide to visit the deathliest place on earth: ie the place with the least life, even less than Greenland, or the Antarctic, or anywhere in the Sahara, Gobi, and so on.

    The reason this place, Yungay, is so deathly – no
    microbial life, no tiny bugs, nothing - is that it sits in a ‘double rain shadow’– surrounded on all sides by mountains, so it has only rained a few times in
    the last 200,000 years.When I get there it turns out to be a predictably desolate patch of nothing with a long road running through, which sees one or two trucks a day. But there is one more thing: the relics of an old mine, which closed in the 1950s. Alongside the crumbling ruin of the mine is a cemetery for the miners, with names and sometimes photos. Preserved by the dry heat.

    Some of the miners died terribly young.
    What I cannot explain are the additions since the 1950s. Alongside every grave, sometimes piled on top of them, there are plastic toys and trinkets, Chinese toy Ferraris, little water pistols, plastic Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, foreign coins, miniature Thomas the Tank Engines, green
    plastic toy soldiers. Who has been coming here, for decades, to the deathliest place on earth, to leave a Snoopy?


    T
    Was it here?
    Concentration camp history

    In 1971, president Salvador Allende declared Chacabuco a Historic Monument of Chile, at which point restoration began. But in 1973, after the military coup, Pinochet turned it into a concentration camp until the end of 1974.[3] As a concentration camp, it held up to 1,800 prisoners many of whom were doctors, lawyers, artists, writers, professors and workers from all over Chile.
    Chacabuco today
    By the 1990s, Chacabuco was in need of extensive restoration and several international organizations began the restoration of parts of Chacabuco. In 1991, a former political prisoner of Chacabuco, Roberto Saldívar, returned to Chacabuco in order to live in the abandoned town and guard it against vandalism and pillaging. He lived there almost completely alone until January 2006. Pedro Barreda replaced Roberto when he left as caretaker of Chacabuco. Currently living in Chacabuco alone, Pedro considers himself to be Roberto's apprentice and remains dedicated to the cause Roberto started.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 11,410
    I think the header words probably capture the likely actors. Firth is obvious for Starmer: a little uptight, nasal, straight down the line, the right sort of age. And Dev Patel for Sunak: Asian, quite small (or seems so), similar longish head shape, sympathetic but a little childlike.

    It wouldn’t be a very exciting film though. Something involving Cameron, Johnson, Truss and Kwarteng, Cummings, Corbyn, cameos from May and Swinson, and a walk on clown role for Richard Burgon, much more fun.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    sarissa said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    I’ve been challenged to come up with a photo more striking than the volcano photo by @Foxy’s sister in law. I could just show you better volcano photos - right by the lava - that I took in Erta Ale, Ethiopia, but that’s too easy

    So here’s a truly weird photo, enclosing a mystery I have never unravelled. Perhaps PB can

    Picture it. A decade ago I find myself with some spare days during a stone toy research trip in the Atacama desert, Chile. So I decide to visit the deathliest place on earth: ie the place with the least life, even less than Greenland, or the Antarctic, or anywhere in the Sahara, Gobi, and so on.

    The reason this place, Yungay, is so deathly – no
    microbial life, no tiny bugs, nothing - is that it sits in a ‘double rain shadow’– surrounded on all sides by mountains, so it has only rained a few times in
    the last 200,000 years.When I get there it turns out to be a predictably desolate patch of nothing with a long road running through, which sees one or two trucks a day. But there is one more thing: the relics of an old mine, which closed in the 1950s. Alongside the crumbling ruin of the mine is a cemetery for the miners, with names and sometimes photos. Preserved by the dry heat.

    Some of the miners died terribly young.
    What I cannot explain are the additions since the 1950s. Alongside every grave, sometimes piled on top of them, there are plastic toys and trinkets, Chinese toy Ferraris, little water pistols, plastic Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, foreign coins, miniature Thomas the Tank Engines, green
    plastic toy soldiers. Who has been coming here, for decades, to the deathliest place on earth, to leave a Snoopy?


    T
    Was it here?
    Concentration camp history

    In 1971, president Salvador Allende declared Chacabuco a Historic Monument of Chile, at which point restoration began. But in 1973, after the military coup, Pinochet turned it into a concentration camp until the end of 1974.[3] As a concentration camp, it held up to 1,800 prisoners many of whom were doctors, lawyers, artists, writers, professors and workers from all over Chile.
    Chacabuco today
    By the 1990s, Chacabuco was in need of extensive restoration and several international organizations began the restoration of parts of Chacabuco. In 1991, a former political prisoner of Chacabuco, Roberto Saldívar, returned to Chacabuco in order to live in the abandoned town and guard it against vandalism and pillaging. He lived there almost completely alone until January 2006. Pedro Barreda replaced Roberto when he left as caretaker of Chacabuco. Currently living in Chacabuco alone, Pedro considers himself to be Roberto's apprentice and remains dedicated to the cause Roberto started.
    Fascinating - but no. Tho possibly nearby?

    My place - yungay - is actually quite well known to science. Because it is the “dead-est” place on earth with zero rain it has been closely studied by NASA as they believe it is a good match for the surface of Mars
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 51,737
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Incidentally, on June 28th this year we will be as long from the date of Biden's birth as Biden's birth was from the start of the US Civil War.

    That’s one hell of a statistic. People see the Civil War as being ancient history, and often fail to comprehend recent historical dates.

    I was born only eight years after Neil Armstrong stood on the moon, but it might as well have been 80 years for all I remember of it!
    Hoy! I remember Armstronjg and Aldrin on the moon.

    Though it's only recently that the last ACW pension ceased being paid.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/irene-triplett-last-person-american-civil-war-pension-dies
    The Civil War pensions is a great story. At one point there were a lof of old men with no descendants marrying young women, just to stick it to the government and keep the pensions running for as long as possible. The last person to claim the pension was the child of one of these marriages.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,567
    I swear it's Rishi's voice at the Tesco self-checkouts:

    "Don't forget to scan your ClubCard!"
  • Options

    I swear it's Rishi's voice at the Tesco self-checkouts:

    "Don't forget to scan your ClubCard!"

    @AverageNinja said the same.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,774
    Carol Vorderman makes the case for the Tories to install Kemi Badenoch to fight the election:

    https://x.com/carolvorders/status/1769039478381846795
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,224
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Tremendously disturbing poll from France, on French Muslim attitudes

    Horror after horror. From the Journale du Dimanche

    49% of French Muslims want Catholics to convert to Islam

    36% percent want churches to be transformed into mosques...

    25% of French Muslims said that the word "France" is a word they reject.

    17% of French Muslims admit that they hate Jews.

    39% say they have a bad, or very bad, opinion of Judaism

    45% of French Muslims say they want the total destruction of Israel. An equivalent number of French Muslims define the massacre rape, torture, beheadings and burning alive of Jews by Hamas terrorists in Israel on October 7, 2023, as an "act of resistance".

    42% of French Muslims place respect for Islamic Sharia law above respect for the laws of the French republic (the percentage rises to 57% among young Muslims aged 18 to 25).

    70% of French prisoners are Muslim


    https://www.lejdd.fr/societe/sondage-dans-la-tete-des-musulmans-de-france-141612

    And its the young who are the most radical and Islamist

    A terrible reckoning is coming. I imagine it will start with President Le Pen

    How about: 99.5% of Internet trolls just want to provoke online arguments because of a psychological inadequacy and because they are incapable of engaging in normal human relationships.
    For many on the right the interest in anti-jewish prejudice is principally a function of their anti-muslim prejudice.
    Alternatively, they have very good Jewish friends in north London who have, for the first time, said “I am afraid to be Jewish in the UK”

    There’s always that possibility, as well, alongside your dribbling nonsense which presumably consoles you
    Mmm, obvious straight line from that to "Islam is killing Western civilisation".
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982

    I swear it's Rishi's voice at the Tesco self-checkouts:

    "Don't forget to scan your ClubCard!"

    Lord Farquaad is Rishi Sunak

    Can't unsee it...
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,567

    I swear it's Rishi's voice at the Tesco self-checkouts:

    "Don't forget to scan your ClubCard!"

    @AverageNinja said the same.
    He said somebody else mentioned it, and that was me!
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,743
    Scott_xP said:

    I swear it's Rishi's voice at the Tesco self-checkouts:

    "Don't forget to scan your ClubCard!"

    Lord Farquaad is Rishi Sunak

    Can't unsee it...
    Nah, Rishi is Will from Inbetweeners. Johnson is Jay, obviously.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,567
    Leon said:

    If I was a Jew I don’t think I’d feel safe in large parts of london - if I was wearing a skullcap or Star of David necklace, or walking into a synagogue or a Jewish school

    Ditto Paris or any number of Western European cities

    What a tragic thing we have done

    I went to Stamford Hill on Thursday, and Stoke Newington today. It was fine.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Tremendously disturbing poll from France, on French Muslim attitudes

    Horror after horror. From the Journale du Dimanche

    49% of French Muslims want Catholics to convert to Islam

    36% percent want churches to be transformed into mosques...

    25% of French Muslims said that the word "France" is a word they reject.

    17% of French Muslims admit that they hate Jews.

    39% say they have a bad, or very bad, opinion of Judaism

    45% of French Muslims say they want the total destruction of Israel. An equivalent number of French Muslims define the massacre rape, torture, beheadings and burning alive of Jews by Hamas terrorists in Israel on October 7, 2023, as an "act of resistance".

    42% of French Muslims place respect for Islamic Sharia law above respect for the laws of the French republic (the percentage rises to 57% among young Muslims aged 18 to 25).

    70% of French prisoners are Muslim


    https://www.lejdd.fr/societe/sondage-dans-la-tete-des-musulmans-de-france-141612

    And its the young who are the most radical and Islamist

    A terrible reckoning is coming. I imagine it will start with President Le Pen

    How about: 99.5% of Internet trolls just want to provoke online arguments because of a psychological inadequacy and because they are incapable of engaging in normal human relationships.
    For many on the right the interest in anti-jewish prejudice is principally a function of their anti-muslim prejudice.
    Alternatively, they have very good Jewish friends in north London who have, for the first time, said “I am afraid to be Jewish in the UK”

    There’s always that possibility, as well, alongside your dribbling nonsense which presumably consoles you
    Mmm, obvious straight line from that to "Islam is killing Western civilisation".
    How would you feel as a Jew in France, reading those stats?
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 26,061
    edited March 17
    Leon said:

    If I was a Jew I don’t think I’d feel safe in large parts of london - if I was wearing a skullcap or Star of David necklace, or walking into a synagogue or a Jewish school

    Ditto Paris or any number of Western European cities

    What a tragic thing we have done

    First, most Jews in London do not wear identifying clothing or jewellery, and I doubt they see the inside of a synagogue between weddings and funerals (and bar/bat mitzvahs). Second, have Jewish schools reported an uptick in truancy as pupils cower under their kitchen tables? Have synagogue congregations fallen away? Or have you fallen for mischief-making again?

    ETA Paris has been problematic for years, in a way London has not and is not.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187

    Leon said:

    If I was a Jew I don’t think I’d feel safe in large parts of london - if I was wearing a skullcap or Star of David necklace, or walking into a synagogue or a Jewish school

    Ditto Paris or any number of Western European cities

    What a tragic thing we have done

    First, most Jews in London do not wear identifying clothing or jewellery, and I doubt they see the inside of a synagogue between weddings and funerals (and bar/bat mitzvahs). Second, have Jewish schools reported an uptick in truancy as pupils cower under their kitchen tables? Have synagogue congregations fallen away? Or have you fallen for mischief-making again?

    ETA Paris has been problematic for years, in a way London has not and is not.


    I live about 200 yards from the Jewish museum in Camden (now sadly closed). I watched over the years as security there got tighter and more overt. By the end they sometimes had semi-permanent guards

    As for london being safe for Jews you maybe missed this video

    “A man just attacked Jewish people with a large knife in a Jewish neighbourhood of London. This is absolutely terrifying. Jews are under violent attack everywhere. What brave men holding him off and stopping him hurting anyone.
    @Shomrim”

    https://x.com/heidibachram/status/1751979758592684427?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    Giles Coren wrote a brilliantly funny/sad piece above feeling unsafe as a Jew in the UK. Especially london

    And finally having that conversation - “where do we go next”?

    We talk about getting out — just not there

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/05213b76-7a59-11ee-b861-bff63f5f7486?shareToken=8b91cdd056f73ffe6fb1789d29abda81




    The idea that British Jews all feel safe and fine is insulting. They do not. They talk about leaving - like Coren here

    I know that makes lefties uncomfortable and they don’t want to talk about it because reasons but it is the case
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,106

    @Casino_Royale should move to Texas.
    Large swathes of the US are fiercely and proudly anti-woke, and no more so than the Lone Star State, where vegetarianism is strictly reserved for homosexuals in Austin.

    Maybe I'm a misanthrope but unreformed reactionary and quasi-bigoted sorts annoy me just as much. And there's a devil's advocate in me that will probably argue a bit against any consensus I find - because I think that's healthy.

    I basically don't like people who don't think, can't see through a dogma, don't use common sense and don't have rationality.

    It's why I generally like being here I guess. Brits are pretty good at that, all things considered.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,567
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If I was a Jew I don’t think I’d feel safe in large parts of london - if I was wearing a skullcap or Star of David necklace, or walking into a synagogue or a Jewish school

    Ditto Paris or any number of Western European cities

    What a tragic thing we have done

    First, most Jews in London do not wear identifying clothing or jewellery, and I doubt they see the inside of a synagogue between weddings and funerals (and bar/bat mitzvahs). Second, have Jewish schools reported an uptick in truancy as pupils cower under their kitchen tables? Have synagogue congregations fallen away? Or have you fallen for mischief-making again?

    ETA Paris has been problematic for years, in a way London has not and is not.


    I live about 200 yards from the Jewish museum in Camden (now sadly closed). I watched over the years as security there got tighter and more overt. By the end they sometimes had semi-permanent guards

    As for london being safe for Jews you maybe missed this video

    “A man just attacked Jewish people with a large knife in a Jewish neighbourhood of London. This is absolutely terrifying. Jews are under violent attack everywhere. What brave men holding him off and stopping him hurting anyone.
    @Shomrim”

    https://x.com/heidibachram/status/1751979758592684427?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    And Islamophobic incidents in the UK have TRIPLED over the last six months.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,106
    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    Le Crunching some numbers here

    France has a Muslim population of about six million, just under 9% of the country

    If 17% of them “hate Jews” that’s exactly one million Jew haters. In France. And these are the ones willing to admit it! And the younger are MORE likely to be radical and anti-Semitic

    And nearly 3 million French Muslims want Israel completely destroyed

    The centre cannot hold

    The current Prime Minister, Gabriel Attal, could well be the En Marche candidate against Le Pen. He has brought members of Les Republicians into the Government so arguably is a more conservative leaning centrist. I think he will be a difficult opponent for Le Pen but he will rely on the socialists and others preferring him to Le Pen in the second round as they did with Macron.
    I sense the momentum is with Le Pen

    She’s cleverly detoxed herself and now poses as the solidly patriotic right winger. She’s even dropped some of her Putin-love

    If I was to make a bet today, I would bet on her winning
    What's she going to do, though?

    I sense she'll just use harder words. She can't actually do anything about it.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    Le Crunching some numbers here

    France has a Muslim population of about six million, just under 9% of the country

    If 17% of them “hate Jews” that’s exactly one million Jew haters. In France. And these are the ones willing to admit it! And the younger are MORE likely to be radical and anti-Semitic

    And nearly 3 million French Muslims want Israel completely destroyed

    The centre cannot hold

    The current Prime Minister, Gabriel Attal, could well be the En Marche candidate against Le Pen. He has brought members of Les Republicians into the Government so arguably is a more conservative leaning centrist. I think he will be a difficult opponent for Le Pen but he will rely on the socialists and others preferring him to Le Pen in the second round as they did with Macron.
    I sense the momentum is with Le Pen

    She’s cleverly detoxed herself and now poses as the solidly patriotic right winger. She’s even dropped some of her Putin-love

    If I was to make a bet today, I would bet on her winning
    What's she going to do, though?

    I sense she'll just use harder words. She can't actually do anything about it.
    Peut etre. Perhaps there is nothing she can do. Maybe it is all too late and Houllebecq will, miserably, be proven correct

    However if there is any country with a sufficient sense of itself and a willingness to fight for its
    identity, France is right up there in the list

    Also, the crisis cannot be averted forever. In the end the collision between secular liberal democracy and conservative Islam will come. And only one will prevail as Islam does not accommodate and compromise
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 26,061
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If I was a Jew I don’t think I’d feel safe in large parts of london - if I was wearing a skullcap or Star of David necklace, or walking into a synagogue or a Jewish school

    Ditto Paris or any number of Western European cities

    What a tragic thing we have done

    First, most Jews in London do not wear identifying clothing or jewellery, and I doubt they see the inside of a synagogue between weddings and funerals (and bar/bat mitzvahs). Second, have Jewish schools reported an uptick in truancy as pupils cower under their kitchen tables? Have synagogue congregations fallen away? Or have you fallen for mischief-making again?

    ETA Paris has been problematic for years, in a way London has not and is not.


    I live about 200 yards from the Jewish museum in Camden (now sadly closed). I watched over the years as security there got tighter and more overt. By the end they sometimes had semi-permanent guards

    As for london being safe for Jews you maybe missed this video

    “A man just attacked Jewish people with a large knife in a Jewish neighbourhood of London. This is absolutely terrifying. Jews are under violent attack everywhere. What brave men holding him off and stopping him hurting anyone.
    @Shomrim”

    https://x.com/heidibachram/status/1751979758592684427?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Yes, I did see that video which, not to underplay it, did not seem to be part of an orchestrated attack on anyone in particular. Sadly, you can find examples of knife attacks and threats all over London.
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/golders-green-kosher-supermarket-knife-man-arrested-antisemitism-london-b1135577.html
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If I was a Jew I don’t think I’d feel safe in large parts of london - if I was wearing a skullcap or Star of David necklace, or walking into a synagogue or a Jewish school

    Ditto Paris or any number of Western European cities

    What a tragic thing we have done

    First, most Jews in London do not wear identifying clothing or jewellery, and I doubt they see the inside of a synagogue between weddings and funerals (and bar/bat mitzvahs). Second, have Jewish schools reported an uptick in truancy as pupils cower under their kitchen tables? Have synagogue congregations fallen away? Or have you fallen for mischief-making again?

    ETA Paris has been problematic for years, in a way London has not and is not.


    I live about 200 yards from the Jewish museum in Camden (now sadly closed). I watched over the years as security there got tighter and more overt. By the end they sometimes had semi-permanent guards

    As for london being safe for Jews you maybe missed this video

    “A man just attacked Jewish people with a large knife in a Jewish neighbourhood of London. This is absolutely terrifying. Jews are under violent attack everywhere. What brave men holding him off and stopping him hurting anyone.
    @Shomrim”

    https://x.com/heidibachram/status/1751979758592684427?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Yes, I did see that video which, not to underplay it, did not seem to be part of an orchestrated attack on anyone in particular. Sadly, you can find examples of knife attacks and threats all over London.
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/golders-green-kosher-supermarket-knife-man-arrested-antisemitism-london-b1135577.html
    Do you think my friends - and Giles Coren - are all lying when they say they feel unsafe and are considering leaving the UK?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,031
    edited March 17

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    On point 3 - all movies would be improved if Muppets were involved.

    With Sir Michael Caine in which role ?
    Have you seen Michael Caine lately? He is even older than Rowan Atkinson. (Just checked: he is 91.)
    He could play the US President then.
    No actor is old enough to play the US President unless they were on stage in the theatre when Lincoln was assassinated.
    Clint is certainly old enough though he may bring his own political baggage.
    He sadly looks a bit fecked nowadays. I believe ‘don’t let the old man in‘ is one of his phrases, well, he’s given the old bugger the keys to the mansion.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,106
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    Le Crunching some numbers here

    France has a Muslim population of about six million, just under 9% of the country

    If 17% of them “hate Jews” that’s exactly one million Jew haters. In France. And these are the ones willing to admit it! And the younger are MORE likely to be radical and anti-Semitic

    And nearly 3 million French Muslims want Israel completely destroyed

    The centre cannot hold

    The current Prime Minister, Gabriel Attal, could well be the En Marche candidate against Le Pen. He has brought members of Les Republicians into the Government so arguably is a more conservative leaning centrist. I think he will be a difficult opponent for Le Pen but he will rely on the socialists and others preferring him to Le Pen in the second round as they did with Macron.
    I sense the momentum is with Le Pen

    She’s cleverly detoxed herself and now poses as the solidly patriotic right winger. She’s even dropped some of her Putin-love

    If I was to make a bet today, I would bet on her winning
    What's she going to do, though?

    I sense she'll just use harder words. She can't actually do anything about it.
    Peut etre. Perhaps there is nothing she can do. Maybe it is all too late and Houllebecq will, miserably, be proven correct

    However if there is any country with a sufficient sense of itself and a willingness to fight for its
    identity, France is right up there in the list

    Also, the crisis cannot be averted forever. In the end the collision between secular liberal democracy and conservative Islam will come. And only one will prevail as Islam does not accommodate and compromise
    Here's the (rather nasty) solution that no-one ever talks about: deporting people by group at gunpoint. Herding them onto planes with a military escort, flying them to bases and airports in MENA, probably also secured by their troops or a close alliance with local ones, and then turfing them all off at the other end. Off you go. Bye bye.

    Huge injustices would be done by this. But could we ever see a European country go this far, as opposed to just turnbacks on the way in?
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,109
    NZ doesn’t want Giles Coren.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,567
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If I was a Jew I don’t think I’d feel safe in large parts of london - if I was wearing a skullcap or Star of David necklace, or walking into a synagogue or a Jewish school

    Ditto Paris or any number of Western European cities

    What a tragic thing we have done

    First, most Jews in London do not wear identifying clothing or jewellery, and I doubt they see the inside of a synagogue between weddings and funerals (and bar/bat mitzvahs). Second, have Jewish schools reported an uptick in truancy as pupils cower under their kitchen tables? Have synagogue congregations fallen away? Or have you fallen for mischief-making again?

    ETA Paris has been problematic for years, in a way London has not and is not.


    I live about 200 yards from the Jewish museum in Camden (now sadly closed). I watched over the years as security there got tighter and more overt. By the end they sometimes had semi-permanent guards

    As for london being safe for Jews you maybe missed this video

    “A man just attacked Jewish people with a large knife in a Jewish neighbourhood of London. This is absolutely terrifying. Jews are under violent attack everywhere. What brave men holding him off and stopping him hurting anyone.
    @Shomrim”

    https://x.com/heidibachram/status/1751979758592684427?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Yes, I did see that video which, not to underplay it, did not seem to be part of an orchestrated attack on anyone in particular. Sadly, you can find examples of knife attacks and threats all over London.
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/golders-green-kosher-supermarket-knife-man-arrested-antisemitism-london-b1135577.html
    Do you think my friends - and Giles Coren - are all lying when they say they feel unsafe and are considering leaving the UK?
    Imagine how unsafe the Palestinians in Gaza must be feeling.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 24,617

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If I was a Jew I don’t think I’d feel safe in large parts of london - if I was wearing a skullcap or Star of David necklace, or walking into a synagogue or a Jewish school

    Ditto Paris or any number of Western European cities

    What a tragic thing we have done

    First, most Jews in London do not wear identifying clothing or jewellery, and I doubt they see the inside of a synagogue between weddings and funerals (and bar/bat mitzvahs). Second, have Jewish schools reported an uptick in truancy as pupils cower under their kitchen tables? Have synagogue congregations fallen away? Or have you fallen for mischief-making again?

    ETA Paris has been problematic for years, in a way London has not and is not.


    I live about 200 yards from the Jewish museum in Camden (now sadly closed). I watched over the years as security there got tighter and more overt. By the end they sometimes had semi-permanent guards

    As for london being safe for Jews you maybe missed this video

    “A man just attacked Jewish people with a large knife in a Jewish neighbourhood of London. This is absolutely terrifying. Jews are under violent attack everywhere. What brave men holding him off and stopping him hurting anyone.
    @Shomrim”

    https://x.com/heidibachram/status/1751979758592684427?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Yes, I did see that video which, not to underplay it, did not seem to be part of an orchestrated attack on anyone in particular. Sadly, you can find examples of knife attacks and threats all over London.
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/golders-green-kosher-supermarket-knife-man-arrested-antisemitism-london-b1135577.html
    Do you think my friends - and Giles Coren - are all lying when they say they feel unsafe and are considering leaving the UK?
    Imagine how unsafe the Palestinians in Gaza must be feeling.
    Life gets unsafe when you start wars
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,460

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If I was a Jew I don’t think I’d feel safe in large parts of london - if I was wearing a skullcap or Star of David necklace, or walking into a synagogue or a Jewish school

    Ditto Paris or any number of Western European cities

    What a tragic thing we have done

    First, most Jews in London do not wear identifying clothing or jewellery, and I doubt they see the inside of a synagogue between weddings and funerals (and bar/bat mitzvahs). Second, have Jewish schools reported an uptick in truancy as pupils cower under their kitchen tables? Have synagogue congregations fallen away? Or have you fallen for mischief-making again?

    ETA Paris has been problematic for years, in a way London has not and is not.


    I live about 200 yards from the Jewish museum in Camden (now sadly closed). I watched over the years as security there got tighter and more overt. By the end they sometimes had semi-permanent guards

    As for london being safe for Jews you maybe missed this video

    “A man just attacked Jewish people with a large knife in a Jewish neighbourhood of London. This is absolutely terrifying. Jews are under violent attack everywhere. What brave men holding him off and stopping him hurting anyone.
    @Shomrim”

    https://x.com/heidibachram/status/1751979758592684427?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    And Islamophobic incidents in the UK have TRIPLED over the last six months.
    Why do you think that is?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,460

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If I was a Jew I don’t think I’d feel safe in large parts of london - if I was wearing a skullcap or Star of David necklace, or walking into a synagogue or a Jewish school

    Ditto Paris or any number of Western European cities

    What a tragic thing we have done

    First, most Jews in London do not wear identifying clothing or jewellery, and I doubt they see the inside of a synagogue between weddings and funerals (and bar/bat mitzvahs). Second, have Jewish schools reported an uptick in truancy as pupils cower under their kitchen tables? Have synagogue congregations fallen away? Or have you fallen for mischief-making again?

    ETA Paris has been problematic for years, in a way London has not and is not.


    I live about 200 yards from the Jewish museum in Camden (now sadly closed). I watched over the years as security there got tighter and more overt. By the end they sometimes had semi-permanent guards

    As for london being safe for Jews you maybe missed this video

    “A man just attacked Jewish people with a large knife in a Jewish neighbourhood of London. This is absolutely terrifying. Jews are under violent attack everywhere. What brave men holding him off and stopping him hurting anyone.
    @Shomrim”

    https://x.com/heidibachram/status/1751979758592684427?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Yes, I did see that video which, not to underplay it, did not seem to be part of an orchestrated attack on anyone in particular. Sadly, you can find examples of knife attacks and threats all over London.
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/golders-green-kosher-supermarket-knife-man-arrested-antisemitism-london-b1135577.html
    Do you think my friends - and Giles Coren - are all lying when they say they feel unsafe and are considering leaving the UK?
    Imagine how unsafe the Palestinians in Gaza must be feeling.
    Unsafe enough to round up Hamas and hand them over to the IDF yet?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 51,737

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If I was a Jew I don’t think I’d feel safe in large parts of london - if I was wearing a skullcap or Star of David necklace, or walking into a synagogue or a Jewish school

    Ditto Paris or any number of Western European cities

    What a tragic thing we have done

    First, most Jews in London do not wear identifying clothing or jewellery, and I doubt they see the inside of a synagogue between weddings and funerals (and bar/bat mitzvahs). Second, have Jewish schools reported an uptick in truancy as pupils cower under their kitchen tables? Have synagogue congregations fallen away? Or have you fallen for mischief-making again?

    ETA Paris has been problematic for years, in a way London has not and is not.


    I live about 200 yards from the Jewish museum in Camden (now sadly closed). I watched over the years as security there got tighter and more overt. By the end they sometimes had semi-permanent guards

    As for london being safe for Jews you maybe missed this video

    “A man just attacked Jewish people with a large knife in a Jewish neighbourhood of London. This is absolutely terrifying. Jews are under violent attack everywhere. What brave men holding him off and stopping him hurting anyone.
    @Shomrim”

    https://x.com/heidibachram/status/1751979758592684427?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Yes, I did see that video which, not to underplay it, did not seem to be part of an orchestrated attack on anyone in particular. Sadly, you can find examples of knife attacks and threats all over London.
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/golders-green-kosher-supermarket-knife-man-arrested-antisemitism-london-b1135577.html
    Do you think my friends - and Giles Coren - are all lying when they say they feel unsafe and are considering leaving the UK?
    Imagine how unsafe the Palestinians in Gaza must be feeling.
    About as unsafe as the Russians in Rostov-on-Don. Life sucks when your leaders start wars.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,767
    Meanwhile, in Graunland, the horrifying realisation that one Tory Government is simply going to be replaced by another is dawning...

    The House of Commons levelling up, housing and communities select committee puts English councils’ current financial gap at about £4bn a year, which could have been filled more than twice over by the money Jeremy Hunt used for that almost meaningless cut in national insurance. He seems to still think that councils must sink or swim: even more depressingly, he and his allies in the rightwing press have reprised old and stupid rhetoric about millions supposedly being wasted on “consultants” and “diversity schemes”.

    And Labour? Last weekend, the shadow chancellor, Rachel Reeves, was repeatedly asked by the Sky News presenter Trevor Phillips if she would fix councils’ crises once Labour was in power. But she would only offer her usual words about the awful problems she would inherit, and vague claims that changes to the planning system and increased business investment may eventually feed through to money for local services. I admire the optimism of people who think she is secretly preparing some kind of national rescue package, but I cannot quite shake off that eternally insightful Maya Angelou quotation: “When people show you who they are, believe them the first time.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/17/birmingham-britain-state-cuts-austerity-local-services

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the differences between the Conservatives and Labour (and the Lib Dems) are wafer thin, and principally concern fringe culture wars issues. When it comes to everything that matters, all they're really interested in is the preservation and inflation of asset wealth (principally residential property,) and endlessly jacking up the state pension to appease the grey vote. Running down and winding up everything else in the process of shoring up those causes is wholly acceptable to them.

    The parties are functionally identical, and that means we'll be in a far worse state in five years' time than we are now. Watch.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    Le Crunching some numbers here

    France has a Muslim population of about six million, just under 9% of the country

    If 17% of them “hate Jews” that’s exactly one million Jew haters. In France. And these are the ones willing to admit it! And the younger are MORE likely to be radical and anti-Semitic

    And nearly 3 million French Muslims want Israel completely destroyed

    The centre cannot hold

    The current Prime Minister, Gabriel Attal, could well be the En Marche candidate against Le Pen. He has brought members of Les Republicians into the Government so arguably is a more conservative leaning centrist. I think he will be a difficult opponent for Le Pen but he will rely on the socialists and others preferring him to Le Pen in the second round as they did with Macron.
    I sense the momentum is with Le Pen

    She’s cleverly detoxed herself and now poses as the solidly patriotic right winger. She’s even dropped some of her Putin-love

    If I was to make a bet today, I would bet on her winning
    What's she going to do, though?

    I sense she'll just use harder words. She can't actually do anything about it.
    Peut etre. Perhaps there is nothing she can do. Maybe it is all too late and Houllebecq will, miserably, be proven correct

    However if there is any country with a sufficient sense of itself and a willingness to fight for its
    identity, France is right up there in the list

    Also, the crisis cannot be averted forever. In the end the collision between secular liberal democracy and conservative Islam will come. And only one will prevail as Islam does not accommodate and compromise
    Here's the (rather nasty) solution that no-one ever talks about: deporting people by group at gunpoint. Herding them onto planes with a military escort, flying them to bases and airports in MENA, probably also secured by their troops or a close alliance with local ones, and then turfing them all off at the other end. Off you go. Bye bye.

    Huge injustices would be done by this. But could we ever see a European country go this far, as opposed to just turnbacks on the way in?
    Ok let’s play radical hypotheses!

    With the major caveat that all of this might well - probably is - gonna be irrelevant due to AI…

    Yes I think in the end there will be quite violent civil strife in one or more European countries and probably attempts at deportations. Because there will come a point when the Muslim populations of Europe get so large they threaten to change these nations entirely - introducing sharia law, making homosexuality illegal etc etc etc etc

    This is not the “fault” of Muslims - it is just the nature of Islam. It doesn’t do compromise. It seeks to rule every nation - that’s in the DNA of the faith

    And it a great and noble religion which gives profound purpose to the lives of billions of people, so it’s not gonna disappear either. Nor is it gonna secularise or have an enlightenment, these are forlorn daydreams from people who don’t want to face the uncomfortable facts

    So I fear in the end it could easily get brutal, and monumentally cruel, in the manner you describe

    Maybe it’s better if the AI takes over now

This discussion has been closed.