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Former Labour councillor defects to Reform – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,917
edited March 24 in General
Former Labour councillor defects to Reform – politicalbetting.com

Getting your first MP via defection really shouldn’t count. It’s like losing your virginity to a prostitute. https://t.co/LadQo3PQ9U

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,033
    Always said miners weren't to be trusted. They always want to bring down Tory PMs.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,033
    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kjh said:

    TOPPING said:

    My Top 10 shortlist for president:

    David Attenborough
    Stephen Fry
    David Dimbleby
    Helen Mirren
    John Humphries
    Ian McKellan
    Alan Bennett
    Joanna Lumley
    Alan Sugar
    Melvyn Bragg

    How about @Dura_Ace for the giggles and mayhem?
    How very Irish and reactionary of @Topping. 10 suggestions - only 2 women.

    I'd make a better President than the lot of them (and @Dura_Ace too).

    For a start all the fatties would be made to beautify their front gardens and stop sprinkling chocolate over their coffees. This would reduce the obesity crisis and make our streets look nicer.
    20% of my list are gay. That is a huge over-representation of gay people as candidates for president. You win some you lose some.

    I would of course be interested in your suggestions for three females for president. If I may be so ungallant as to say your very good self excepted.
    Dame Judy, of course.
    Baroness Benjamin, perhaps.
    Cyclefree definitely up there.
    Baroness Benjamin should have stood to be Mayor of London. The LibDems tried to persuade her, but she doesn't want to.
    Is anyone trying to recruit Michelle Obama?

    Note that the LORD Mayor of London is an American (born in Seattle) so there's precedent.
    We've got an American as Lord Mayor of London now, do we?! Flipping heck. #IWantMyCountryBack
    We survived with having an Australian James Bond.

    #BritainWillAlwaysEndure
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,321
    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,676

    Always said miners weren't to be trusted. They always want to bring down Tory PMs.

    By undermining them, presumably.

    The real moral here is that, however stupid and nasty a party goes in search of votes, it won't be stupid and nasty enough for some. (I'm a bit surprised that RefUK were willing to take him. Normally, they keep a veneer of plausible deniability.)
  • Options
    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Up to nine MPs ha.

    We have heard the before, with Douglass 'What Are Tides' Carswell and Mark 'Reckless' Reckless.

    I'll believe it when I see it. I guess it's a different way to announce your retirement.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,690
    Real problem for Lee Anderson, is that the high standards of Official Raving Monster Loony Party, preclude his selection as ORML candidate for ANY office, from Village Ratcatcher on up.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,321

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    Well I say that. But the photo is off the back of her head. And the back of her head does look like a certain Marioness
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,237
    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    I am getting visions of that Fawlty Towers episode where Polly dresses as Sybil on her sickbed..

    (I am pretty sure she’s not dead or absent, FWIW, but it is all grimly amusing)
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,194
    The Tories just have to hope that he takes their extremist nutters with him.

    Such that, after the incoming catastrophic defeat, they can rebuild their party as one fit for sensible voters to support.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,690
    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    Stunt double?

    AND if so, Kate or Wills's stunt double? OR a double-double??

    BTW, seems that AI-mills are on track to exceed carbon consumption of crypto-factories.

    Burn baby burn!
  • Options
    Ghedebrav said:

    Up to nine MPs ha.

    We have heard the before, with Douglass 'What Are Tides' Carswell and Mark 'Reckless' Reckless.

    I'll believe it when I see it. I guess it's a different way to announce your retirement.

    I think he has at least some chance of hanging on as the vote in Ashfield will be very divided between him, the Ashfield Independent, his Conservative replacement, and Labour. So it wouldn't be terribly shocking if one of them got in on under 30% of the vote. Would be interested to see a market - I'd probably back Labour to get it.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 20,483
    FPT (Bloody lawyers):

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    We need some polling in Ashfield.
    I would not at all be surprised if Anderson retained his seat in the GE, and, for approximately similar reasons, if Galloway retained Rochdale.

    I couldn't possibly comment on that :smile: !!

    Because I have not got the foggiest idea what will happen.

    As background, changes I am noticing over 10-15 years are:

    1 - A fair few new houses have been built. We don't do new towns, but there are plenty of developments from 100-500 and a couple of 1000-2000, houses.
    2 - Rather more people from brown / black ethnicities. Not a lot, but it reminds me of say some of the remaining WWC areas of London 30 years ago - eg the area around Myddleton Square in East London when I used to visit to do an MSc (in Software Reliability of all things) in the early 1990s.
    3 - Lots of Polish. The two display languages at my GP are English and Polish.
    4 - Integration with Nottingham - the Hucknall end is on the Nottingham Tram Network, and is in practice becoming a suburb.
    5 - More commuting by people who live this way for more attractive house prices.

    There have also been modest boundary adjustments.
    Ashfield was the next seat to Broxtowe and we shared a couple of local authority wards (one of which was held by the BNP for a while). It often struck me that when I met anyone from the constituency from any party, they would be telling me within minutes how they hated someone else - compared with generally mild-mannered Broxtowe, it seemed to be an absolute snakepit. The Independent was as much a LibDem splitter as a Labour one, and moderates of any colour seemed few and far between. But I think it's become much less of any of that, partly for the reaspns MattW sets out, and I'd think Labour has a decent chance of beating the rabble of alternatives.
    Nick, what do you expect across Notts, where all 8 constituencies (ie not Nottingham and ignoring the Leeanderthal switch) are Conservative?

    I can see them losing at least 4, and possibly as many as 6 or 7.

    I'm leaving that at 7 max as I don't expect all the stars to align.
    Matt, I'm a bit out of touch apart from Broxtowe (which I do expect to go Labour). But in general that sounds credible on anything close to current polling. Presumably Rushcliffe will hold?
    These are the current majorities in order, all Conservative.

    I'm not confident of Rushcliffe holding, unless Ruth Edwards is as special as Ken Clarke was. Perhaps trams etc in metro-Nottingham are absorbing Rushcliffe as they are Hucknall.

    Newark CC 21,816 Robert Jenrick
    Mansfield CC 16,306 Ben Bradley
    Sherwood CC 16,186 Mark Spencer
    Bassetlaw CC 14,013 Brendan Clarke-Smith
    Rushcliffe CC 7,643 Ruth Edwards
    Ashfield CC 5,733 Lee Anderson
    Broxtowe CC 5,331 Darren Henry
    Gedling CC 679 Tom Randall

    My "max 7" changing was based on one of the top 4 holding, since the difference in majorities is quite stark with the bottom 4. On a punt I'd perhaps say one of Mansfield/Bassetlaw or Newark/Sherwood, dependent perhaps on whether Working Class or Middle Class Tories are the loyal ones.

    Jenrick is controversial, as is Mrs Henry (PCC who got herself banned from driving within weeks of getting the job as PCC). Bradley is evaluated through the lens of Notts CC, so is Mr Pothole. Clarke-Smith I do not know other than as a Red Wall Tory noise machine.

  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,690

    Always said miners weren't to be trusted. They always want to bring down Tory PMs.

    By undermining them, presumably.

    The real moral here is that, however stupid and nasty a party goes in search of votes, it won't be stupid and nasty enough for some. (I'm a bit surprised that RefUK were willing to take him. Normally, they keep a veneer of plausible deniability.)

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kjh said:

    TOPPING said:

    My Top 10 shortlist for president:

    David Attenborough
    Stephen Fry
    David Dimbleby
    Helen Mirren
    John Humphries
    Ian McKellan
    Alan Bennett
    Joanna Lumley
    Alan Sugar
    Melvyn Bragg

    How about @Dura_Ace for the giggles and mayhem?
    How very Irish and reactionary of @Topping. 10 suggestions - only 2 women.

    I'd make a better President than the lot of them (and @Dura_Ace too).

    For a start all the fatties would be made to beautify their front gardens and stop sprinkling chocolate over their coffees. This would reduce the obesity crisis and make our streets look nicer.
    20% of my list are gay. That is a huge over-representation of gay people as candidates for president. You win some you lose some.

    I would of course be interested in your suggestions for three females for president. If I may be so ungallant as to say your very good self excepted.
    Dame Judy, of course.
    Baroness Benjamin, perhaps.
    Cyclefree definitely up there.
    Baroness Benjamin should have stood to be Mayor of London. The LibDems tried to persuade her, but she doesn't want to.
    Is anyone trying to recruit Michelle Obama?

    Note that the LORD Mayor of London is an American (born in Seattle) so there's precedent.
    We've got an American as Lord Mayor of London now, do we?! Flipping heck. #IWantMyCountryBack
    We survived with having an Australian James Bond.

    #BritainWillAlwaysEndure

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kjh said:

    TOPPING said:

    My Top 10 shortlist for president:

    David Attenborough
    Stephen Fry
    David Dimbleby
    Helen Mirren
    John Humphries
    Ian McKellan
    Alan Bennett
    Joanna Lumley
    Alan Sugar
    Melvyn Bragg

    How about @Dura_Ace for the giggles and mayhem?
    How very Irish and reactionary of @Topping. 10 suggestions - only 2 women.

    I'd make a better President than the lot of them (and @Dura_Ace too).

    For a start all the fatties would be made to beautify their front gardens and stop sprinkling chocolate over their coffees. This would reduce the obesity crisis and make our streets look nicer.
    20% of my list are gay. That is a huge over-representation of gay people as candidates for president. You win some you lose some.

    I would of course be interested in your suggestions for three females for president. If I may be so ungallant as to say your very good self excepted.
    Dame Judy, of course.
    Baroness Benjamin, perhaps.
    Cyclefree definitely up there.
    Baroness Benjamin should have stood to be Mayor of London. The LibDems tried to persuade her, but she doesn't want to.
    Is anyone trying to recruit Michelle Obama?

    Note that the LORD Mayor of London is an American (born in Seattle) so there's precedent.
    We've got an American as Lord Mayor of London now, do we?! Flipping heck. #IWantMyCountryBack
    We survived with having an Australian James Bond.

    #BritainWillAlwaysEndure
    Relax, the Seattle-born Lord Mayor of London is 1/4 British by citizenship.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Mary Robinson was not well known by the public when she became President of Ireland. But was a very good one. An equivalent here - and I have suggested a few - would be a lot better than @Topping's list of aged celebrities/TV people. They are the same old faces. Time for some new ones - with some substantive achievements in the public sphere to their name.
  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,367
    The guardian's live blog has this from Robert Shrimsley of the FT:

    Think Lee Anderson is making a mistake not forcing a by-election. He'd probably win and give a big boost to Reform. In fact he prob has more chance of holding seat at general if he does.
    https://twitter.com/robertshrimsley/status/1767174386149175729

    Not sure if that would work - if Lee Anderson was only suspended from the Tories, wouldn't it be the govt whip who'd be responsible for moving the writ? If so, I could see them choosing to spin it out for ages...
  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,367

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I think they'll have to come up with something very soon - the current "yes, the withdrawn photo was edited but we're not going to show you the unaltered version" line is surely unsustainable.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 20,483
    AlsoLei said:

    The guardian's live blog has this from Robert Shrimsley of the FT:

    Think Lee Anderson is making a mistake not forcing a by-election. He'd probably win and give a big boost to Reform. In fact he prob has more chance of holding seat at general if he does.
    https://twitter.com/robertshrimsley/status/1767174386149175729

    Not sure if that would work - if Lee Anderson was only suspended from the Tories, wouldn't it be the govt whip who'd be responsible for moving the writ? If so, I could see them choosing to spin it out for ages...

    Perhaps he has his eye on the exit payment he gets at a General Election, which I believe he does not get at a by-election.

    (May be wrong on that.)
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,690
    Cyclefree said:

    Mary Robinson was not well known by the public when she became President of Ireland. But was a very good one. An equivalent here - and I have suggested a few - would be a lot better than @Topping's list of aged celebrities/TV people. They are the same old faces. Time for some new ones - with some substantive achievements in the public sphere to their name.

    Fact that Mary Robinson was relatively unknown to public, but had sold credentials, was a big PLUS in running against a pair of "usual suspects" put up for The Park by Fianna Fail and Fine Gael.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,690
    Cyclefree said:

    Mary Robinson was not well known by the public when she became President of Ireland. But was a very good one. An equivalent here - and I have suggested a few - would be a lot better than @Topping's list of aged celebrities/TV people. They are the same old faces. Time for some new ones - with some substantive achievements in the public sphere to their name.

    Fact that Mary Robinson was relatively unknown to public, but had sold credentials, was a big PLUS in running against a pair of "usual suspects" put up for The Park by Fianna Fail and Fine Gael.
  • Options
    SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 6,930
    edited March 11
    AlsoLei said:

    The guardian's live blog has this from Robert Shrimsley of the FT:

    Think Lee Anderson is making a mistake not forcing a by-election. He'd probably win and give a big boost to Reform. In fact he prob has more chance of holding seat at general if he does.
    https://twitter.com/robertshrimsley/status/1767174386149175729

    Not sure if that would work - if Lee Anderson was only suspended from the Tories, wouldn't it be the govt whip who'd be responsible for moving the writ? If so, I could see them choosing to spin it out for ages...

    In terms of Tories spinning it out, I'm not sure that works as the failure to do what is required becomes, in itself, a story RefUK can spin to their advantage.

    I'm not convinced he'd win a by-election, though. Carswell and Reckless could at least plausibly say there was a policy basis - Cameron's failure to either reform the EU or offer an option to leave constituted a breach of a policy promise (albeit he was tied by the Lib Dems in Coalition at that time).

    What's Anderson's cover for it really? He's been kicked out for being a bit racist, and RefUK have given him a home. I think he'd be squeezed by Labour saying they are the only real option for change, and Ashfield Independent saying he's a genuinely independent, strong voice for the area while Anderson was Tory deputy Chairman until five minutes ago.

    Probably has more chance if he waits for a GE. Although he may not care and be happy with the pay cheque from GBeebies.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,636
    Given that it's in the opposition's interest to do something roughly like bisecting the Tory/Refuk vote between those parties, how long before they feel they should start propping the Tories up a bit?
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,438
    AlsoLei said:

    The guardian's live blog has this from Robert Shrimsley of the FT:

    Think Lee Anderson is making a mistake not forcing a by-election. He'd probably win and give a big boost to Reform. In fact he prob has more chance of holding seat at general if he does.
    https://twitter.com/robertshrimsley/status/1767174386149175729

    Not sure if that would work - if Lee Anderson was only suspended from the Tories, wouldn't it be the govt whip who'd be responsible for moving the writ? If so, I could see them choosing to spin it out for ages...

    If he defected first, I think the convention would then have allowed him to move it. Otherwise, Labour would probably have done so (it's only a convention, any party can do it).
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,690
    Sorry for double post, PB bit wonky now on my humble PC.
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 9,169

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    Stunt double?

    AND if so, Kate or Wills's stunt double? OR a double-double??

    BTW, seems that AI-mills are on track to exceed carbon consumption of crypto-factories.

    Burn baby burn!
    There's a whole conspiracy theory about Harry and Meghan's children being fake (actors or robots, opinions vary).
  • Options
    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    AlsoLei said:

    The guardian's live blog has this from Robert Shrimsley of the FT:

    Think Lee Anderson is making a mistake not forcing a by-election. He'd probably win and give a big boost to Reform. In fact he prob has more chance of holding seat at general if he does.
    https://twitter.com/robertshrimsley/status/1767174386149175729

    Not sure if that would work - if Lee Anderson was only suspended from the Tories, wouldn't it be the govt whip who'd be responsible for moving the writ? If so, I could see them choosing to spin it out for ages...

    No, forcing a by-election is highly risky for both Anderson and Reform. Let us remember they are on perhaps 13% at best in the polls, their by-election machine's most notable recent achievement was campaigning in an adjacent constituency on polling day in Wellingborough, and TBH I can't imagine Anderson's cumbersome political baggage would be an easy sell to the good folks of Ashfield, which I used to know quite well when I grew up in Nottingham. Labour would find a bright eyed and bushy tailed candidate, flood the constituency with activists and be odds on to win, a victory which I guess would also be privately very welcome to Sunak's crew.
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,449

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    Stunt double?

    AND if so, Kate or Wills's stunt double? OR a double-double??

    BTW, seems that AI-mills are on track to exceed carbon consumption of crypto-factories.

    Burn baby burn!
    It's one of Putin's spare doubles.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,460
    edited March 11
    I like a defection, but prefer unexpected ones. Anderson has been a Reform MP for ages, this just makes it official.

    I did respect when UKIP had by elections after decections, but have no issue not doing so, especially so close to the end.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,460

    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    My Top 10 shortlist for president:

    David Attenborough
    Stephen Fry
    David Dimbleby
    Helen Mirren
    John Humphries
    Ian McKellan
    Alan Bennett
    Joanna Lumley
    Alan Sugar
    Melvyn Bragg

    What you want, as in this excellent wish list, and what you get can be different. I want Paul Waugh to be MP for Rochdale. What we got was George Galloway.

    Elections of 650 people simultaneously dilutes the toxic material. Election of precisely one person can, and will, give you a Donald Trump.
    Yes, I agree. But it's not obvious that random selection of head of state by accident of birth solves the problem - we could easily have seen Prince Andrew as next in line, for instance.

    I prefer the Swiss system - the Head of State is whoever is currently chair of the Council of Ministers (it rotates annually between them). That gives a political element so you don't get a random monarch, the annual rotation prevents a Trump-like personality cult, the cross-party nature of the Government prevents it becoming a political tool, and the official duties are performed with appropriate dignity without the flummery of titles and castles.
    Everybody seems to like the Swiss way of doing things in theory, but no one else seems to put that into action.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,690
    Chris said:

    Given that it's in the opposition's interest to do something roughly like bisecting the Tory/Refuk vote between those parties, how long before they feel they should start propping the Tories up a bit?

    Note that in 2024 US Senate primary in California, where Top Two finishers regardless of party advance to general election, front-running Democrat Steve Schiff spent part of his campaign war chest running ads contrasting himself with Republican Steve Garvey.

    Why? To help ensure that GOPer Garvey, and NOT another Democratic, namely Katie Porter, ended up in 2nd place.

    Thus increasing the odds, that come November California's new US Senator will be Adam Schiff.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,520
    AlsoLei said:

    The guardian's live blog has this from Robert Shrimsley of the FT:

    Think Lee Anderson is making a mistake not forcing a by-election. He'd probably win and give a big boost to Reform. In fact he prob has more chance of holding seat at general if he does.
    https://twitter.com/robertshrimsley/status/1767174386149175729

    Not sure if that would work - if Lee Anderson was only suspended from the Tories, wouldn't it be the govt whip who'd be responsible for moving the writ? If so, I could see them choosing to spin it out for ages...

    He won't be a member of the Tories now, suspended or otherwise.

    But any MP can move the writ; it's only convention that it's the ex-MP's party (or former party). In this case, where his party no longer has representation in the House, I think it'd be fair game for any party to move it. The Tories would have a tough job arguing against it on procedural grounds.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,636

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,567
    Lee Anderson = Good Riddance :lol:
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,520

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kjh said:

    TOPPING said:

    My Top 10 shortlist for president:

    David Attenborough
    Stephen Fry
    David Dimbleby
    Helen Mirren
    John Humphries
    Ian McKellan
    Alan Bennett
    Joanna Lumley
    Alan Sugar
    Melvyn Bragg

    How about @Dura_Ace for the giggles and mayhem?
    How very Irish and reactionary of @Topping. 10 suggestions - only 2 women.

    I'd make a better President than the lot of them (and @Dura_Ace too).

    For a start all the fatties would be made to beautify their front gardens and stop sprinkling chocolate over their coffees. This would reduce the obesity crisis and make our streets look nicer.
    20% of my list are gay. That is a huge over-representation of gay people as candidates for president. You win some you lose some.

    I would of course be interested in your suggestions for three females for president. If I may be so ungallant as to say your very good self excepted.
    Dame Judy, of course.
    Baroness Benjamin, perhaps.
    Cyclefree definitely up there.
    Baroness Benjamin should have stood to be Mayor of London. The LibDems tried to persuade her, but she doesn't want to.
    Is anyone trying to recruit Michelle Obama?

    Note that the LORD Mayor of London is an American (born in Seattle) so there's precedent.
    We've got an American as Lord Mayor of London now, do we?! Flipping heck. #IWantMyCountryBack
    We survived with having an Australian James Bond.

    #BritainWillAlwaysEndure
    Two of the last three PMs had all sorts of American

    Always said miners weren't to be trusted. They always want to bring down Tory PMs.

    By undermining them, presumably.

    The real moral here is that, however stupid and nasty a party goes in search of votes, it won't be stupid and nasty enough for some. (I'm a bit surprised that RefUK were willing to take him. Normally, they keep a veneer of plausible deniability.)
    I think that went with GB News.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 20,483
    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    My Top 10 shortlist for president:

    David Attenborough
    Stephen Fry
    David Dimbleby
    Helen Mirren
    John Humphries
    Ian McKellan
    Alan Bennett
    Joanna Lumley
    Alan Sugar
    Melvyn Bragg

    What you want, as in this excellent wish list, and what you get can be different. I want Paul Waugh to be MP for Rochdale. What we got was George Galloway.

    Elections of 650 people simultaneously dilutes the toxic material. Election of precisely one person can, and will, give you a Donald Trump.
    Yes, I agree. But it's not obvious that random selection of head of state by accident of birth solves the problem - we could easily have seen Prince Andrew as next in line, for instance.

    I prefer the Swiss system - the Head of State is whoever is currently chair of the Council of Ministers (it rotates annually between them). That gives a political element so you don't get a random monarch, the annual rotation prevents a Trump-like personality cult, the cross-party nature of the Government prevents it becoming a political tool, and the official duties are performed with appropriate dignity without the flummery of titles and castles.
    Everybody seems to like the Swiss way of doing things in theory, but no one else seems to put that into action.
    I think the Swiss system as described puts too little distance between the current political boss and the consitutional head.

    The Swiss have dealt with that by trying to have a castrated foreign policy - arguably like the Irish.

    I don't think that is up to scratch for the current era, and involves hiding behind other countries.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,194

    AlsoLei said:

    The guardian's live blog has this from Robert Shrimsley of the FT:

    Think Lee Anderson is making a mistake not forcing a by-election. He'd probably win and give a big boost to Reform. In fact he prob has more chance of holding seat at general if he does.
    https://twitter.com/robertshrimsley/status/1767174386149175729

    Not sure if that would work - if Lee Anderson was only suspended from the Tories, wouldn't it be the govt whip who'd be responsible for moving the writ? If so, I could see them choosing to spin it out for ages...

    He won't be a member of the Tories now, suspended or otherwise.

    But any MP can move the writ; it's only convention that it's the ex-MP's party (or former party). In this case, where his party no longer has representation in the House, I think it'd be fair game for any party to move it. The Tories would have a tough job arguing against it on procedural grounds.
    But in Ashfield, Jason might well win it. Thus Lee is better off enjoying his prominence as parliamentary party leader, and witting and waiting.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 20,483
    edited March 11
    IanB2 said:

    AlsoLei said:

    The guardian's live blog has this from Robert Shrimsley of the FT:

    Think Lee Anderson is making a mistake not forcing a by-election. He'd probably win and give a big boost to Reform. In fact he prob has more chance of holding seat at general if he does.
    https://twitter.com/robertshrimsley/status/1767174386149175729

    Not sure if that would work - if Lee Anderson was only suspended from the Tories, wouldn't it be the govt whip who'd be responsible for moving the writ? If so, I could see them choosing to spin it out for ages...

    He won't be a member of the Tories now, suspended or otherwise.

    But any MP can move the writ; it's only convention that it's the ex-MP's party (or former party). In this case, where his party no longer has representation in the House, I think it'd be fair game for any party to move it. The Tories would have a tough job arguing against it on procedural grounds.
    But in Ashfield, Jason might well win it. Thus Lee is better off enjoying his prominence as parliamentary party leader, and witting and waiting.
    If Rishi holds out, does Mr Anderson get Short Money?

    (Edit: no)
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,033
    The Conservative party’s biggest donor told colleagues that looking at Diane Abbott makes you “want to hate all black women” and said the MP “should be shot”, the Guardian can reveal.

    Frank Hester, who has given £10m to the Tories in the past year, said in the meeting that he did not hate all black women. But he also said that seeing Abbott, who is Britain’s longest-serving black MP, on TV meant “you just want to hate all black women because she’s there”.

    He also called all his “foreign” workers together to defend himself against online claims that he had made racist remarks. During this meeting he said he abhorred racism and told his team their progress would not be “based on the colour of your skin, your ethnicity, where your parents are from”. However, he also said “we take the piss out of the fact that all our Chinese girls sit together in Asian corner”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/11/biggest-tory-donor-looking-diane-abbott-hate-all-black-women
  • Options
    WillGWillG Posts: 2,270
    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Just how bad are the Royal Family's PR team that they thought releasing this photo was a good idea? And then to release a statement saying Kate likes to do photoshop in her spare time?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,707

    The Conservative party’s biggest donor told colleagues that looking at Diane Abbott makes you “want to hate all black women” and said the MP “should be shot”, the Guardian can reveal.

    Frank Hester, who has given £10m to the Tories in the past year, said in the meeting that he did not hate all black women. But he also said that seeing Abbott, who is Britain’s longest-serving black MP, on TV meant “you just want to hate all black women because she’s there”.

    He also called all his “foreign” workers together to defend himself against online claims that he had made racist remarks. During this meeting he said he abhorred racism and told his team their progress would not be “based on the colour of your skin, your ethnicity, where your parents are from”. However, he also said “we take the piss out of the fact that all our Chinese girls sit together in Asian corner”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/11/biggest-tory-donor-looking-diane-abbott-hate-all-black-women

    'As part of a months-long investigation including interviews with dozens of former TPP employees, many of them told the Guardian that Hester runs a strict workplace environment at the firm’s headquarters in Leeds, with staff told to make sure they raise their hands straight up when asking a question and instructed to clean fingerprints off the office glass if they leave marks.'
  • Options

    Ghedebrav said:

    Up to nine MPs ha.

    We have heard the before, with Douglass 'What Are Tides' Carswell and Mark 'Reckless' Reckless.

    I'll believe it when I see it. I guess it's a different way to announce your retirement.

    I think he has at least some chance of hanging on as the vote in Ashfield will be very divided between him, the Ashfield Independent, his Conservative replacement, and Labour. So it wouldn't be terribly shocking if one of them got in on under 30% of the vote. Would be interested to see a market - I'd probably back Labour to get it.
    If you think you are going to lose - as most of the red wall MPs are likely to do - and you blame one Mr Sunak for that being the case, why wouldn't you defect and try every you can to humiliate him.

    It must be borne in mind that many of these MPs are not long-term loyalists and probably never expected to get this far. As far as they are concerned one last throw of the dice might just save them and, if it doesn't, they are damaging a PM they loathe. Seems like a win-win.

    It may not be nine, but I would not be surprised if three or four crossed the floor.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    Kinell Cartagena is hot

    No wonder they all WANTED to go to England
  • Options
    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,193
    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Certainly at my age, it's not. But then at Louis's age, I could easily do a "pitchty-poll" (forward roll).
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    Omg this latest photo of Kate makes it WORSE
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,636

    The Conservative party’s biggest donor told colleagues that looking at Diane Abbott makes you “want to hate all black women” and said the MP “should be shot”, the Guardian can reveal.

    Frank Hester, who has given £10m to the Tories in the past year, said in the meeting that he did not hate all black women. But he also said that seeing Abbott, who is Britain’s longest-serving black MP, on TV meant “you just want to hate all black women because she’s there”.

    He also called all his “foreign” workers together to defend himself against online claims that he had made racist remarks. During this meeting he said he abhorred racism and told his team their progress would not be “based on the colour of your skin, your ethnicity, where your parents are from”. However, he also said “we take the piss out of the fact that all our Chinese girls sit together in Asian corner”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/11/biggest-tory-donor-looking-diane-abbott-hate-all-black-women

    Clearly not a racist, otherwise he would have thought all black women should be shot.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,676
    Leon said:

    Kinell Cartagena is hot

    No wonder they all WANTED to go to England

    Whereas far NE London has the kind of grey murk that makes you think it's November.

    It had better blooming well not be November.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,636

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Certainly at my age, it's not. But then at Louis's age, I could easily do a "pitchty-poll" (forward roll).
    Fair enough.

    image
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Certainly at my age, it's not. But then at Louis's age, I could easily do a "pitchty-poll" (forward roll).
    This is quite persuasive. How desperate must you be to do this?


  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,763
    Leon said:

    Omg this latest photo of Kate makes it WORSE

    Don't tell me it was taken in Helsinki.
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 2,122
    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Certainly at my age, it's not. But then at Louis's age, I could easily do a "pitchty-poll" (forward roll).
    This is quite persuasive. How desperate must you be to do this?


    “Same woman looks similar in two photos” seems pretty believable to me. Not the smokiest of smoking guns.
  • Options
    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    WillG said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Just how bad are the Royal Family's PR team that they thought releasing this photo was a good idea? And then to release a statement saying Kate likes to do photoshop in her spare time?
    🤦‍♀️

    The government should be stepping in as Blair did when they totally misread the mood after Diana's death. But Sunak does not have the authority and probably would not know what to do even if he had it.
  • Options
    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,767
    edited March 11

    Ghedebrav said:

    Up to nine MPs ha.

    We have heard the before, with Douglass 'What Are Tides' Carswell and Mark 'Reckless' Reckless.

    I'll believe it when I see it. I guess it's a different way to announce your retirement.

    I think he has at least some chance of hanging on as the vote in Ashfield will be very divided between him, the Ashfield Independent, his Conservative replacement, and Labour. So it wouldn't be terribly shocking if one of them got in on under 30% of the vote. Would be interested to see a market - I'd probably back Labour to get it.
    For Corbyn's Labour, 2019 was disasterous yet the Labour candidate still got 24%, standing against Anderson only a year after he had defected to the Conservatives, and also against Zadrozny and a Brexit Party candidate. Standing for a second time against Anderson and Zadrozny but in far more favourable national circumstances, it is hard to see a Labour candidate getting less than 35%, which would still be 30% less than Geoff Hoon achieved in 1997. If a Conservative candidate and Zadrozny both achieved 15%, that would be enough to win.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,690

    The Conservative party’s biggest donor told colleagues that looking at Diane Abbott makes you “want to hate all black women” and said the MP “should be shot”, the Guardian can reveal.

    Frank Hester, who has given £10m to the Tories in the past year, said in the meeting that he did not hate all black women. But he also said that seeing Abbott, who is Britain’s longest-serving black MP, on TV meant “you just want to hate all black women because she’s there”.

    He also called all his “foreign” workers together to defend himself against online claims that he had made racist remarks. During this meeting he said he abhorred racism and told his team their progress would not be “based on the colour of your skin, your ethnicity, where your parents are from”. However, he also said “we take the piss out of the fact that all our Chinese girls sit together in Asian corner”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/11/biggest-tory-donor-looking-diane-abbott-hate-all-black-women

    Reminds me of defense witness at recent manslaughter trial (and conviction) of femme fatale armorer on the set of Alex Baldwin's fatal movie "Rust".

    An alleged firearms expert, who proceeded to wave around allegedly unloaded weapons and/or facsimiles, WITHOUT demonstrating they were unloaded. At one point actually pointing what looked like a old-time hand-gun directly at the judge, as the front row of spectators in the courtroom ducked.

    Very persuasive testimony . . . . for the prosecution.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,520

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kjh said:

    TOPPING said:

    My Top 10 shortlist for president:

    David Attenborough
    Stephen Fry
    David Dimbleby
    Helen Mirren
    John Humphries
    Ian McKellan
    Alan Bennett
    Joanna Lumley
    Alan Sugar
    Melvyn Bragg

    How about @Dura_Ace for the giggles and mayhem?
    How very Irish and reactionary of @Topping. 10 suggestions - only 2 women.

    I'd make a better President than the lot of them (and @Dura_Ace too).

    For a start all the fatties would be made to beautify their front gardens and stop sprinkling chocolate over their coffees. This would reduce the obesity crisis and make our streets look nicer.
    20% of my list are gay. That is a huge over-representation of gay people as candidates for president. You win some you lose some.

    I would of course be interested in your suggestions for three females for president. If I may be so ungallant as to say your very good self excepted.
    Dame Judy, of course.
    Baroness Benjamin, perhaps.
    Cyclefree definitely up there.
    Baroness Benjamin should have stood to be Mayor of London. The LibDems tried to persuade her, but she doesn't want to.
    Is anyone trying to recruit Michelle Obama?

    Note that the LORD Mayor of London is an American (born in Seattle) so there's precedent.
    We've got an American as Lord Mayor of London now, do we?! Flipping heck. #IWantMyCountryBack
    We survived with having an Australian James Bond.

    #BritainWillAlwaysEndure
    Two of the last three PMs had all sorts of American

    Always said miners weren't to be trusted. They always want to bring down Tory PMs.

    By undermining them, presumably.

    The real moral here is that, however stupid and nasty a party goes in search of votes, it won't be stupid and nasty enough for some. (I'm a bit surprised that RefUK were willing to take him. Normally, they keep a veneer of plausible deniability.)
    I think that went with GB News.
    Half-finished comment in and among there, kept in by accident!

    However, Johnson had American citizenship until whenever, if he even did get round to renouncing it. There were all sorts of rumours about Sunak's American visa / residency rights and what have you. And Truss is now deeply embedded in the American right movement. So it's nothing new.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Certainly at my age, it's not. But then at Louis's age, I could easily do a "pitchty-poll" (forward roll).
    This is quite persuasive. How desperate must you be to do this?


    “Same woman looks similar in two photos” seems pretty believable to me. Not the smokiest of smoking guns.
    It’s not a slam dunk but this is the verdict of a Fleet Street photo editor and on examination is highly plausible. They obviously got the face of Kate from somewhere - why not that vogue shoot? They would likely have had copies

    My hunch now is that poor Kate’s surgery has been really serious and has left her looking really weird and puffy faced to a disturbing extent and she simply doesn’t want to be seen like that. Which is highly understandable. Who would?

    But the public clamour means they have to show something so it’s either Papp shots where you can barely see her - or badly composited AI images
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,904
    .
    eek said:

    The Conservative party’s biggest donor told colleagues that looking at Diane Abbott makes you “want to hate all black women” and said the MP “should be shot”, the Guardian can reveal.

    Frank Hester, who has given £10m to the Tories in the past year, said in the meeting that he did not hate all black women. But he also said that seeing Abbott, who is Britain’s longest-serving black MP, on TV meant “you just want to hate all black women because she’s there”.

    He also called all his “foreign” workers together to defend himself against online claims that he had made racist remarks. During this meeting he said he abhorred racism and told his team their progress would not be “based on the colour of your skin, your ethnicity, where your parents are from”. However, he also said “we take the piss out of the fact that all our Chinese girls sit together in Asian corner”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/11/biggest-tory-donor-looking-diane-abbott-hate-all-black-women

    The only thing you need to know about that firm is that they use Carter-Ruck as lawyers
    I noticed that.

    Also, while one shouldn't go solely by appearance, his photo doesn't look like the face of a man you'd want to trust with your medical records.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,763
    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Certainly at my age, it's not. But then at Louis's age, I could easily do a "pitchty-poll" (forward roll).
    This is quite persuasive. How desperate must you be to do this?


    I normally believe you write sleep- inducing b*ll*cks on such dreary matters but I must concede your evidence is compelling in this instance.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 20,483
    edited March 11
    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    My Top 10 shortlist for president:

    David Attenborough
    Stephen Fry
    David Dimbleby
    Helen Mirren
    John Humphries
    Ian McKellan
    Alan Bennett
    Joanna Lumley
    Alan Sugar
    Melvyn Bragg

    What you want, as in this excellent wish list, and what you get can be different. I want Paul Waugh to be MP for Rochdale. What we got was George Galloway.

    Elections of 650 people simultaneously dilutes the toxic material. Election of precisely one person can, and will, give you a Donald Trump.
    Yes, I agree. But it's not obvious that random selection of head of state by accident of birth solves the problem - we could easily have seen Prince Andrew as next in line, for instance.

    I prefer the Swiss system - the Head of State is whoever is currently chair of the Council of Ministers (it rotates annually between them). That gives a political element so you don't get a random monarch, the annual rotation prevents a Trump-like personality cult, the cross-party nature of the Government prevents it becoming a political tool, and the official duties are performed with appropriate dignity without the flummery of titles and castles.
    Everybody seems to like the Swiss way of doing things in theory, but no one else seems to put that into action.
    I think the Swiss system as described puts too little distance between the current political boss and the consitutional head.

    The Swiss have dealt with that by trying to have a castrated foreign policy - arguably like the Irish.

    I don't think that is up to scratch for the current era, and involves hiding behind other countries.
    If we all had the Swiss or the Irish system, would Ukraine still be standing?

    I don't think that fence-sitting is adequate as a recommended constitutional option. It may be viable as an aspirational honest-broker between tectonic plates.
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 2,122
    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    There’s nothing that would have stopped him from crossing them with the other hand & then leaving them like that, if that’s what he wanted to do. Kids do weird things, news @ 11 ...

    (Some people can apparently do this unaided. I certainly can’t but it’s not implausible that someone is able to do this. Children probably more so since they tend to be more flexible than adults.)
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,883
    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    If he's hypermobile then it would be very easy.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187

    Leon said:

    Omg this latest photo of Kate makes it WORSE

    Don't tell me it was taken in Helsinki.
    I mean this latest photo. Meant to reassure us? Are they joking?



  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,690
    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Certainly at my age, it's not. But then at Louis's age, I could easily do a "pitchty-poll" (forward roll).
    This is quite persuasive. How desperate must you be to do this?


    “Same woman looks similar in two photos” seems pretty believable to me. Not the smokiest of smoking guns.
    You should get a load of my drivers license photo!

    Taken by experimental, also temperamental and overworked photo-bot. Or maybe I broke the camera?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,904
    edited March 11
    Bet Chubb are happy with that deal they fixed with Trump.

    The fact that Trump libeled @ejeancarrol on @CNBC @SquawkCNBC is highly significant for a procedural reason in addition to a substantive one.

    Were E. Jean to sue Trump just for the speech he gave in northwest Georgia the other day, she probably would have had to sue in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Georgia.

    But now that he libeled her on Squawk Box, which is anchored in Manhattan, she likely may now sue in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York.

    If she does that, the case would be assigned to Judge Lewis A. Kaplan as a case related to the earlier two cases that produced $88.3 million in damages awards.

    https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/status/1767214377881489575
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,520
    WillG said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Just how bad are the Royal Family's PR team that they thought releasing this photo was a good idea? And then to release a statement saying Kate likes to do photoshop in her spare time?
    They are, to coin a phrase, an analogue operation in a digital age.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187

    WillG said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Just how bad are the Royal Family's PR team that they thought releasing this photo was a good idea? And then to release a statement saying Kate likes to do photoshop in her spare time?
    They are, to coin a phrase, an analogue operation in a digital age.
    More like a digital operation in the age of AI
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,690

    Leon said:

    Omg this latest photo of Kate makes it WORSE

    Don't tell me it was taken in Helsinki.
    Princess was conducting clandestine affair with a mad Finnish hatter?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,194
    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Certainly at my age, it's not. But then at Louis's age, I could easily do a "pitchty-poll" (forward roll).
    This is quite persuasive. How desperate must you be to do this?


    “Same woman looks similar in two photos” seems pretty believable to me. Not the smokiest of smoking guns.
    It’s not a slam dunk but this is the verdict of a Fleet Street photo editor and on examination is highly plausible. They obviously got the face of Kate from somewhere - why not that vogue shoot? They would likely have had copies

    My hunch now is that poor Kate’s surgery has been really serious and has left her looking really weird and puffy faced to a disturbing extent and she simply doesn’t want to be seen like that. Which is highly understandable. Who would?

    But the public clamour means they have to show something so it’s either Papp shots where you can barely see her - or badly composited AI images
    Yesterday she was probably dead; now she’s probably mutilated by surgery. Slowly your stream of conspiracy nonsense slips back toward some meeting with reality….
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 11,410
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    My Top 10 shortlist for president:

    David Attenborough
    Stephen Fry
    David Dimbleby
    Helen Mirren
    John Humphries
    Ian McKellan
    Alan Bennett
    Joanna Lumley
    Alan Sugar
    Melvyn Bragg

    What you want, as in this excellent wish list, and what you get can be different. I want Paul Waugh to be MP for Rochdale. What we got was George Galloway.

    Elections of 650 people simultaneously dilutes the toxic material. Election of precisely one person can, and will, give you a Donald Trump.
    Yes, I agree. But it's not obvious that random selection of head of state by accident of birth solves the problem - we could easily have seen Prince Andrew as next in line, for instance.

    I prefer the Swiss system - the Head of State is whoever is currently chair of the Council of Ministers (it rotates annually between them). That gives a political element so you don't get a random monarch, the annual rotation prevents a Trump-like personality cult, the cross-party nature of the Government prevents it becoming a political tool, and the official duties are performed with appropriate dignity without the flummery of titles and castles.
    Everybody seems to like the Swiss way of doing things in theory, but no one else seems to put that into action.
    I think the Swiss system as described puts too little distance between the current political boss and the consitutional head.

    The Swiss have dealt with that by trying to have a castrated foreign policy - arguably like the Irish.

    I don't think that is up to scratch for the current era, and involves hiding behind other countries.
    If we all had the Swiss or the Irish system, would Ukraine still be standing?
    Unfortunately it looks like the American system may soon be leaving Ukraine not-standing too, as confirmed by the delightful Mr Orban today.
  • Options
    mickydroymickydroy Posts: 314
    eek said:

    The Conservative party’s biggest donor told colleagues that looking at Diane Abbott makes you “want to hate all black women” and said the MP “should be shot”, the Guardian can reveal.

    Frank Hester, who has given £10m to the Tories in the past year, said in the meeting that he did not hate all black women. But he also said that seeing Abbott, who is Britain’s longest-serving black MP, on TV meant “you just want to hate all black women because she’s there”.

    He also called all his “foreign” workers together to defend himself against online claims that he had made racist remarks. During this meeting he said he abhorred racism and told his team their progress would not be “based on the colour of your skin, your ethnicity, where your parents are from”. However, he also said “we take the piss out of the fact that all our Chinese girls sit together in Asian corner”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/11/biggest-tory-donor-looking-diane-abbott-hate-all-black-women

    The only thing you need to know about that firm is that they use Carter-Ruck as lawyers
    Labour, in no small part thanks to Starmer, have managed in most places to turn their ship around, from Corbyn and his merry band of anti semites, it can only be hoped that the Tories have got someone in their midst, to realise the truly awful state of their party, and pull them back from the brink, getting rid of morons like Anderson would be a start, I'm just not sure there is anybody left in that party, who would even want to do it. The worry for me, is further elections down the line, there is every chance, we could be electing a party bordering on the far right, and the right wing media and GB news will lap it up
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 20,483
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Omg this latest photo of Kate makes it WORSE

    Don't tell me it was taken in Helsinki.
    I mean this latest photo. Meant to reassure us? Are they joking?



    Ahem :wink: .

    Is THAT photo real, or AI generated?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,605
    edited March 11
    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    Rejoice!

    Edit: On second thought, how do we know it's not an actress/body double, etc?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 20,483
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Omg this latest photo of Kate makes it WORSE

    Don't tell me it was taken in Helsinki.
    I mean this latest photo. Meant to reassure us? Are they joking?



    Ahem :wink: .

    Is THAT photo real, or AI generated?
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,690
    WillG said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Just how bad are the Royal Family's PR team that they thought releasing this photo was a good idea? And then to release a statement saying Kate likes to do photoshop in her spare time?
    All par for the course, as yours truly has been saying on here for ages . . . or rather reigns.

    Wonders chinless AND brainless never cease their gnawing of the House of Windsor from within.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,363
    The trouble with Reform is their economic agenda appears to be for the top 10%. I thought both Tice and Farage had criticised Anderson over his Khan comments? But no mention of it today.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,758

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Certainly at my age, it's not. But then at Louis's age, I could easily do a "pitchty-poll" (forward roll).
    This is quite persuasive. How desperate must you be to do this?


    I normally believe you write sleep- inducing b*ll*cks on such dreary matters but I must concede your evidence is compelling in this instance.
    I disagree. If you toggle between the two images, her left eyebrow is noticeably different as are the dimples to the right of her mouth.

    https://twitter.com/rubynaldrett/status/1767184942859997400
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    PhilPhil Posts: 2,122
    edited March 11
    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Certainly at my age, it's not. But then at Louis's age, I could easily do a "pitchty-poll" (forward roll).
    This is quite persuasive. How desperate must you be to do this?


    “Same woman looks similar in two photos” seems pretty believable to me. Not the smokiest of smoking guns.
    It’s not a slam dunk but this is the verdict of a Fleet Street photo editor and on examination is highly plausible. They obviously got the face of Kate from somewhere - why not that vogue shoot? They would likely have had copies

    My hunch now is that poor Kate’s surgery has been really serious and has left her looking really weird and puffy faced to a disturbing extent and she simply doesn’t want to be seen like that. Which is highly understandable. Who would?

    But the public clamour means they have to show something so it’s either Papp shots where you can barely see her - or badly composited AI images
    Nah, given the sloppiness of the rest of the photoshop work, it seems implausible that the same person put an enormous amount of effort into shifting her hair, editing out the shadows & highlights on her face from the hat / strong outdoor light in the Vogue cover shot. Also the mouth line doesn’t line up.

    There’s obviously something going on but, given the range of plausible medical reasons, I don’t think we necessarily have a right to know what it is. They have managed to completely stuff up the PR management though.
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,690
    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    AlsoLei said:

    The guardian's live blog has this from Robert Shrimsley of the FT:

    Think Lee Anderson is making a mistake not forcing a by-election. He'd probably win and give a big boost to Reform. In fact he prob has more chance of holding seat at general if he does.
    https://twitter.com/robertshrimsley/status/1767174386149175729

    Not sure if that would work - if Lee Anderson was only suspended from the Tories, wouldn't it be the govt whip who'd be responsible for moving the writ? If so, I could see them choosing to spin it out for ages...

    He won't be a member of the Tories now, suspended or otherwise.

    But any MP can move the writ; it's only convention that it's the ex-MP's party (or former party). In this case, where his party no longer has representation in the House, I think it'd be fair game for any party to move it. The Tories would have a tough job arguing against it on procedural grounds.
    But in Ashfield, Jason might well win it. Thus Lee is better off enjoying his prominence as parliamentary party leader, and witting and waiting.
    If Rishi holds out, does Mr Anderson get Short Money?

    (Edit: no)
    IF Anderson holds out (whatever that may mean) does Rishi get Short Money?

    Would make sense to me, and TSE, and most of PB!
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,605
    Wasn't @MoonRabbit expecting Rishi to call the election today?
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,636
    Phil said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    There’s nothing that would have stopped him from crossing them with the other hand & then leaving them like that, if that’s what he wanted to do. ...
    Believe it or not, that's the very reason I included the phrase "without using your left hand to force them there" in my question!
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 26,553
    The Princess of Wales is missing and the spare Prince is in exile and the King is treating his cancer with herbs. If this were the 1300s France would be looking to invade.

    https://x.com/TheStefanSmith/status/1767191732368867811?s=20

    I’m struggling to see a downside apart from needing to improve my French
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 12,360
    mickydroy said:

    eek said:

    The Conservative party’s biggest donor told colleagues that looking at Diane Abbott makes you “want to hate all black women” and said the MP “should be shot”, the Guardian can reveal.

    Frank Hester, who has given £10m to the Tories in the past year, said in the meeting that he did not hate all black women. But he also said that seeing Abbott, who is Britain’s longest-serving black MP, on TV meant “you just want to hate all black women because she’s there”.

    He also called all his “foreign” workers together to defend himself against online claims that he had made racist remarks. During this meeting he said he abhorred racism and told his team their progress would not be “based on the colour of your skin, your ethnicity, where your parents are from”. However, he also said “we take the piss out of the fact that all our Chinese girls sit together in Asian corner”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/11/biggest-tory-donor-looking-diane-abbott-hate-all-black-women

    The only thing you need to know about that firm is that they use Carter-Ruck as lawyers
    Labour, in no small part thanks to Starmer, have managed in most places to turn their ship around, from Corbyn and his merry band of anti semites, it can only be hoped that the Tories have got someone in their midst, to realise the truly awful state of their party, and pull them back from the brink, getting rid of morons like Anderson would be a start, I'm just not sure there is anybody left in that party, who would even want to do it. The worry for me, is further elections down the line, there is every chance, we could be electing a party bordering on the far right, and the right wing media and GB news will lap it up
    It's happened in most countries in Europe. Quite a lot of voters would really like immigration to be controlled. Either the mainstream parties pivot to a position where one of them offers this (Denmark) or new parties on the right spring up or grow significantly (France, Sweden, Netherlands, Germany, Italy).
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 46,422
    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Certainly at my age, it's not. But then at Louis's age, I could easily do a "pitchty-poll" (forward roll).
    This is quite persuasive. How desperate must you be to do this?


    “Same woman looks similar in two photos” seems pretty believable to me. Not the smokiest of smoking guns.
    If you want spooky, think of the number of people @Leon looks a bit like.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 9,169
    There are currently 13 political parties represented in the Commons (10 elected at the general election, 1 through a by-election, and 2 from defections). Is that a record?

    The previous Parliament peaked at 10, I think: 8 elected at the general election, plus 2 from defections (if we count The Independents as a party). The 2015 election saw 11 parties elected (a record?), but I don't think the number ever increased. The closest was, therefore, the 2014-5 period at 12 parties in the Commons. The 2010 general had seen 10 parties elected and then 2 won seats at by-elections. There were 11 parties before the 2010 general.

    I think you have to go back to the '30s for similar numbers. The 1931 election is complicated: there are National government MPs elected under 5 different labels, there are 3 flavours of Labour affiliated MPs, the Lloyd George group, and Irish Nationalists. So, should we count that as 4 or 9 parties?
  • Options
    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    WillG said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Just how bad are the Royal Family's PR team that they thought releasing this photo was a good idea? And then to release a statement saying Kate likes to do photoshop in her spare time?
    All par for the course, as yours truly has been saying on here for ages . . . or rather reigns.

    Wonders chinless AND brainless never cease their gnawing of the House of Windsor from within.
    Having trashed everything else in the UK there is only one institution left for the Tories to destroy before they are themselves destroyed the election. Even now their moles are hard at work in the PR department at the Palace.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,321
    eek said:

    The Princess of Wales is missing and the spare Prince is in exile and the King is treating his cancer with herbs. If this were the 1300s France would be looking to invade.

    https://x.com/TheStefanSmith/status/1767191732368867811?s=20

    I’m struggling to see a downside apart from needing to improve my French

    Do we get Mbappe or do they get Bellingham?
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 2,122
    edited March 11
    Chris said:

    Phil said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    There’s nothing that would have stopped him from crossing them with the other hand & then leaving them like that, if that’s what he wanted to do. ...
    Believe it or not, that's the very reason I included the phrase "without using your left hand to force them there" in my question!
    Fair point!

    I can do it if I lightly rest my ring finger on a surface as Louis is doing.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,048
    Nigelb said:

    .

    eek said:

    The Conservative party’s biggest donor told colleagues that looking at Diane Abbott makes you “want to hate all black women” and said the MP “should be shot”, the Guardian can reveal.

    Frank Hester, who has given £10m to the Tories in the past year, said in the meeting that he did not hate all black women. But he also said that seeing Abbott, who is Britain’s longest-serving black MP, on TV meant “you just want to hate all black women because she’s there”.

    He also called all his “foreign” workers together to defend himself against online claims that he had made racist remarks. During this meeting he said he abhorred racism and told his team their progress would not be “based on the colour of your skin, your ethnicity, where your parents are from”. However, he also said “we take the piss out of the fact that all our Chinese girls sit together in Asian corner”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/11/biggest-tory-donor-looking-diane-abbott-hate-all-black-women

    The only thing you need to know about that firm is that they use Carter-Ruck as lawyers
    I noticed that.

    Also, while one shouldn't go solely by appearance, his photo doesn't look like the face of a man you'd want to trust with your medical records.
    I have known a few people at TPP in my time (dealt with a few while trying to get access to TPP's research data). They don't tend to be complimentary about him or the culture there, but the pay is good. It's been reported (to me) that he sees the business as a licence to print money as changing data suppliers is something GP practices are generally loathe to do and there's not exactly cut-throat competition between providers.

    From the picture, Hester has chubbed up a fair bit since I last saw him (research even some years back - I spoke to him only very briefly and didn't form a personal view on him).
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 24,617
    eek said:

    The Princess of Wales is missing and the spare Prince is in exile and the King is treating his cancer with herbs. If this were the 1300s France would be looking to invade.

    https://x.com/TheStefanSmith/status/1767191732368867811?s=20

    I’m struggling to see a downside apart from needing to improve my French

    The bureaucrats would all be French

    start there.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 40,330
    edited March 11

    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    Certainly at my age, it's not. But then at Louis's age, I could easily do a "pitchty-poll" (forward roll).
    This is quite persuasive. How desperate must you be to do this?


    “Same woman looks similar in two photos” seems pretty believable to me. Not the smokiest of smoking guns.
    You should get a load of my drivers license photo!

    Taken by experimental, also temperamental and overworked photo-bot. Or maybe I broke the camera?
    The passport office rejected this photo:


    I wonder why... ? ;)
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    eekeek Posts: 26,553
    edited March 11
    GIN1138 said:

    Wasn't @MoonRabbit expecting Rishi to call the election today?

    I believe so but I think they got their calculations wrong - if you want an election on May 2nd you would announce it next week when the logical date 5 weeks hence is May 2nd and not April 25th

    As I commented earlier today, if you were calling an election on May 2nd you would need to announce it before March 26th so any day from next Tuesday (19th) onwards
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    I’m taking consolation for our royal troubles in the ancient Catedral de Catalina de Alejandria, where Bolivar prayed




    It is soothing. Join me for a custard apple in the cloisters
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,743
    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    It's all a bit Weekend at Bernie's.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 46,422
    Phil said:

    Chris said:

    Phil said:

    Chris said:

    moonshine said:

    Princess of wales seen in car with her husband, as he goes to westminster abbey. She’s just gone for the drive apparently. So she’s not dead!

    So why the f**k can't she arrange an independent, unedited photo!
    I'm just curious about one detail. Is it even possible to get your fingers into the position of those of Louis's right hand without using your left hand to force them there?
    There’s nothing that would have stopped him from crossing them with the other hand & then leaving them like that, if that’s what he wanted to do. ...
    Believe it or not, that's the very reason I included the phrase "without using your left hand to force them there" in my question!
    Fair point!

    I can do it if I lightly rest my ring finger on a surface as Louis is doing.
    I am strongly reminded of the time Pesto went into the business of photo interpretation, for some reason.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,085
    Leon said:

    I’m taking consolation for our royal troubles in the ancient Catedral de Catalina de Alejandria, where Bolivar prayed



    It is soothing. Join me for a custard apple in the cloisters

    What the fuck is a custard apple.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 51,187
    edited March 11
    Bolivar’s final letter, before he died of tuberculosis, is absolutely superb and brilliantly prophetic. He makes six points


    (1) America is ungovernable;

    (2) Those who serve a revolution plough the sea;

    (3) The only thing you can do in America is leave it;

    (4) This country will fall inevitably in the hands of the unbridled masses and then pass almost imperceptibly into the hands of petty tyrants, of all colours and races;

    (5) Once we have been devoured by every crime and extinguished by utter ferocity, even the Europeans will not regard us as worth conquering;

    (6) If it were possible for any part of the world to revert to primitive chaos, it would be America


    Glimpses of Haiti in that final clause
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,462

    The Conservative party’s biggest donor told colleagues that looking at Diane Abbott makes you “want to hate all black women” and said the MP “should be shot”, the Guardian can reveal.

    Frank Hester, who has given £10m to the Tories in the past year, said in the meeting that he did not hate all black women. But he also said that seeing Abbott, who is Britain’s longest-serving black MP, on TV meant “you just want to hate all black women because she’s there”.

    He also called all his “foreign” workers together to defend himself against online claims that he had made racist remarks. During this meeting he said he abhorred racism and told his team their progress would not be “based on the colour of your skin, your ethnicity, where your parents are from”. However, he also said “we take the piss out of the fact that all our Chinese girls sit together in Asian corner”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/11/biggest-tory-donor-looking-diane-abbott-hate-all-black-women

    The Tories need to give back the £10mn otherwise they're endorsing racism, not to mention the comment advocating the murder of an MP. Utterly vile and unforgivable. What kind of scum are the Tories in bed with now?
    And what about Gove's efforts to ban government interactions with extremists, when his party has taken millions from a racist who says a back woman MP should be shot? The hypocrisy is sickening.
  • Options
    jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 745
    Leon said:

    I’m taking consolation for our royal troubles in the ancient Catedral de Catalina de Alejandria, where Bolivar prayed




    It is soothing. Join me for a custard apple in the cloisters

    I need a proper picture of that gorgeous building just visibile through that doorway, when you're done with the custard apple, please
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 12,360
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    I’m taking consolation for our royal troubles in the ancient Catedral de Catalina de Alejandria, where Bolivar prayed



    It is soothing. Join me for a custard apple in the cloisters

    What the fuck is a custard apple.
    I enjoy it when minor details like semi-obscure fruit accelerates pb.com to quite surprising levels of anger.
This discussion has been closed.