Mr. Observer, a close result would be a bad thing, whoever wins. Suspicions of vote-rigging (it'll be fun to see how many postal votes are doled out) could make things contentious. A clear Yes or No would be best.
And worst of all, a close result on very low turnout.
The consequences of the big turnout differential still hasn't sunk in for better together or indeed the PB tories. Sooner or later it will.
There is a reason for that. The PB Tories haven't got the foggiest idea of ground conditions in Scotland. They are totally, blissfully unaware of the non-existence of BT activists on the ground in vaste swathes of the country. Whereas there isn't even a village which hasn't been canvassed by the Yes team. And before September, they will be re-canvassed and re-canvassed and the gaps will be filled in. Meanwhile, GOTV folks over at BT will be looking at their empty databases and pulling their hair out.
And yet all this furious activity from YES has resulted in continuing leads for the Union.
I wonder whether it something like "PB Tories" pouring their hearts and souls in Bolsover hoping for a Con GAIN to flash up on election night ?!?
Mr. Observer, a close result would be a bad thing, whoever wins. Suspicions of vote-rigging (it'll be fun to see how many postal votes are doled out) could make things contentious. A clear Yes or No would be best.
And worst of all, a close result on very low turnout.
The consequences of the big turnout differential still hasn't sunk in for better together or indeed the PB tories. Sooner or later it will.
There is a reason for that. The PB Tories haven't got the foggiest idea of ground conditions in Scotland. They are totally, blissfully unaware of the non-existence of BT activists on the ground in vaste swathes of the country. Whereas there isn't even a village which hasn't been canvassed by the Yes team. And before September, they will be re-canvassed and re-canvassed and the gaps will be filled in. Meanwhile, GOTV folks over at BT will be looking at their empty databases and pulling their hair out.
And yet all this furious activity from YES has resulted in continuing leads for the Union.
Seven months out from the vote. Yes to AV was leading months out from the vote as was scottish labour by double figures for the 2011 scottish elections. If you wish to be complacent about the ground campaign then by all means let you and your arse speak such 'wisdom' to the No campaign as loudly as you can manage.
As for Ave_It, he seemed to find your arse's outpourings and predictions for the lib dems in 2010 riotously funny. Now why would that be?
Mr. Observer, a close result would be a bad thing, whoever wins. Suspicions of vote-rigging (it'll be fun to see how many postal votes are doled out) could make things contentious. A clear Yes or No would be best.
And worst of all, a close result on very low turnout.
The consequences of the big turnout differential still hasn't sunk in for better together or indeed the PB tories. Sooner or later it will.
There is a reason for that. The PB Tories haven't got the foggiest idea of ground conditions in Scotland. They are totally, blissfully unaware of the non-existence of BT activists on the ground in vaste swathes of the country. Whereas there isn't even a village which hasn't been canvassed by the Yes team. And before September, they will be re-canvassed and re-canvassed and the gaps will be filled in. Meanwhile, GOTV folks over at BT will be looking at their empty databases and pulling their hair out.
And yet all this furious activity from YES has resulted in continuing leads for the Union.
As for Ave_It, he seemed to find your arse's outpourings and predictions for the lib dems in 2010 riotously funny.
I'm quite looking forward to all the British eurosceptic wailing and gnashing of teeth as Merkel boards the plane back to Germany.
They know that the Germans are not going to support fundamental concessions. Changing the provisions of the working time directive as it applies to the NHS is about as good as it will get. The idea that there will be any significant reform to concepts as fundamental as free movement of people is absurd. I can't wait to see Dave's red lines. Maybe he'll do a Salmond and never reveal them.
Mr. Observer, a close result would be a bad thing, whoever wins. Suspicions of vote-rigging (it'll be fun to see how many postal votes are doled out) could make things contentious. A clear Yes or No would be best.
And worst of all, a close result on very low turnout.
The consequences of the big turnout differential still hasn't sunk in for better together or indeed the PB tories. Sooner or later it will.
There is a reason for that. The PB Tories haven't got the foggiest idea of ground conditions in Scotland. They are totally, blissfully unaware of the non-existence of BT activists on the ground in vaste swathes of the country. Whereas there isn't even a village which hasn't been canvassed by the Yes team. And before September, they will be re-canvassed and re-canvassed and the gaps will be filled in. Meanwhile, GOTV folks over at BT will be looking at their empty databases and pulling their hair out.
And yet all this furious activity from YES has resulted in continuing leads for the Union.
Seven months out from the vote. Yes to AV was leading months out from the vote as was scottish labour by double figures for the 2011 scottish elections. If you wish to be complacent about the ground campaign then by all means let you and your arse speak such 'wisdom' to the No campaign as loudly as you can manage.
As for Ave_It, he seemed to find your arse's outpourings and predictions for the lib dems in 2010 riotously funny. Now why would that be?
I'm far from complacent but I also have absolute faith in the good sense of the Scottish voters in rejecting the fantasy promises of YES aided and abetted by spectacular YES own goals like the currency debacle.
Now what currency are YES opting for today ??! - Is it the Ruble or the Yuan ?
'This is just reality. Not something that Nats necessarily find amenable.'
What are the odds that Standard Life will move regardless of any referendum outcome, to reassure and retain existing business? They could lose a lot of jittery customers between now and the vote.
Mr. Observer, a close result would be a bad thing, whoever wins. Suspicions of vote-rigging (it'll be fun to see how many postal votes are doled out) could make things contentious. A clear Yes or No would be best.
And worst of all, a close result on very low turnout.
The consequences of the big turnout differential still hasn't sunk in for better together or indeed the PB tories. Sooner or later it will.
There is a reason for that. The PB Tories haven't got the foggiest idea of ground conditions in Scotland. They are totally, blissfully unaware of the non-existence of BT activists on the ground in vaste swathes of the country. Whereas there isn't even a village which hasn't been canvassed by the Yes team. And before September, they will be re-canvassed and re-canvassed and the gaps will be filled in. Meanwhile, GOTV folks over at BT will be looking at their empty databases and pulling their hair out.
And yet all this furious activity from YES has resulted in continuing leads for the Union.
Seven months out from the vote. Yes to AV was leading months out from the vote as was scottish labour by double figures for the 2011 scottish elections. If you wish to be complacent about the ground campaign then by all means let you and your arse speak such 'wisdom' to the No campaign as loudly as you can manage.
As for Ave_It, he seemed to find your arse's outpourings and predictions for the lib dems in 2010 riotously funny. Now why would that be?
I'm far from complacent but I also have absolute faith in the good sense of the Scottish voters
They delivered fewer tory MPs than pandas in scotland and have made the scottish lib dems an irrelevance so I too am very confident that they have good sense.
'This is a purely precautionary measure, and customers do not need to take any action.'
I bet they do, now that Standard Life have broken cover. I would, if my pension was on the line.
Presumably on the appointed day of independence everyone resident in rUK (unless actively opted not to) will be transferred to "Std Life rUK" and all continues as before. After all if you are invested in share X or gilt Y that would still exist whatever side of the border Std Life were on so value wouldn't be destroyed if your scheme hold German Bunds, or 5000 shares in Coca Cola or whatever.
What does change are the possible currency, tax, and regulation risks and as one assumes over 90% of Std Life investments etc are held by rUK residents rather than Scots residents moving south for Std Life is a no brainer to me.
As I have said independence is viable and possible, just not Alex Salmond's version of it. His version relies on others to sign up to things like a currency and regulatory union, which nobody with prospects of power and influence south of Gretna Green seems inclined to do. It might be worth accepting the fallout if you are Scottish, fair enough, but fall out there will be.
I had a letter from David Cameron today asking me to register for a postal vote (with an application form and reply paid envelope addressed to the Conservative Party which seemed a bit odd - shouldn't it go to the Council?)
I don't recall receiving any letter from him ever before - I live in a safe Con seat (Hertsmere) though of course that is irrelevant as far as the Euros are concerned.
So what does this indicate? Are they putting a lot of resources into the Euros? No point in wasting time on me for the GE.
Mr. Observer, a close result would be a bad thing, whoever wins. Suspicions of vote-rigging (it'll be fun to see how many postal votes are doled out) could make things contentious. A clear Yes or No would be best.
And worst of all, a close result on very low turnout.
The consequences of the big turnout differential still hasn't sunk in for better together or indeed the PB tories. Sooner or later it will.
There is a reason for that. The PB Tories haven't got the foggiest idea of ground conditions in Scotland. They are totally, blissfully unaware of the non-existence of BT activists on the ground in vaste swathes of the country. Whereas there isn't even a village which hasn't been canvassed by the Yes team. And before September, they will be re-canvassed and re-canvassed and the gaps will be filled in. Meanwhile, GOTV folks over at BT will be looking at their empty databases and pulling their hair out.
And yet all this furious activity from YES has resulted in continuing leads for the Union.
Seven months out from the vote. Yes to AV was leading months out from the vote as was scottish labour by double figures for the 2011 scottish elections. If you wish to be complacent about the ground campaign then by all means let you and your arse speak such 'wisdom' to the No campaign as loudly as you can manage.
As for Ave_It, he seemed to find your arse's outpourings and predictions for the lib dems in 2010 riotously funny. Now why would that be?
I'm far from complacent but I also have absolute faith in the good sense of the Scottish voters
They delivered fewer tory MPs than pandas in scotland and have made the scottish lib dems an irrelevance so I too am very confident that they have good sense.
Mr. Observer, a close result would be a bad thing, whoever wins. Suspicions of vote-rigging (it'll be fun to see how many postal votes are doled out) could make things contentious. A clear Yes or No would be best.
And worst of all, a close result on very low turnout.
The consequences of the big turnout differential still hasn't sunk in for better together or indeed the PB tories. Sooner or later it will.
There is a reason for that. The PB Tories haven't got the foggiest idea of ground conditions in Scotland. They are totally, blissfully unaware of the non-existence of BT activists on the ground in vaste swathes of the country. Whereas there isn't even a village which hasn't been canvassed by the Yes team. And before September, they will be re-canvassed and re-canvassed and the gaps will be filled in. Meanwhile, GOTV folks over at BT will be looking at their empty databases and pulling their hair out.
And yet all this furious activity from YES has resulted in continuing leads for the Union.
Seven months out from the vote. Yes to AV was leading months out from the vote as was scottish labour by double figures for the 2011 scottish elections. If you wish to be complacent about the ground campaign then by all means let you and your arse speak such 'wisdom' to the No campaign as loudly as you can manage.
As for Ave_It, he seemed to find your arse's outpourings and predictions for the lib dems in 2010 riotously funny. Now why would that be?
I'm far from complacent but I also have absolute faith in the good sense of the Scottish voters
They delivered fewer tory MPs than pandas in scotland and have made the scottish lib dems an irrelevance so I too am very confident that they have good sense.
Quite what individual party Scottish elections results have to do with a single question, once in lifetime and life changing referendum question is beyond me !!
However if it is to become your comfort blanket in the long nightmare ahead then I say :
Quite what individual party Scottish elections results have to do with a single question, once in lifetime and life changing referendum question is beyond me !!
Of course it is. You seem blissfully unaware of how the scottish public views things as well as the tactics of those in charge of both the 2011 scottish labour campaign and now the No campaign.
Balls and Miliband to rescue Labour’s Scottish campaign…
Can Ed Miliband and Ed Balls save Labour in Scotland? The two Labour heavyweights have decided to move in to rescue their party’s disastrous campaign in Scotland — with Balls being sent up north to sharpen his party’s teeth. A desperate measure for a desperate situation: Labour has not only blown a 10-15 point lead over the SNP in just a few weeks, but now languishes some 10-13 percentage points behind. A mammoth, humiliating defeat looms.
Until now, Labour has liked to portray its campaign for the Holyrood elections as a totally Scottish affair: run in Scotland, organised in Scotland and led by Scottish politicians. Not any more.
Senior staffers in Ed Miliband’s office started briefing Scottish hacks last night that Miliband is now going to take a much more "hands on" approach to the campaign. Miliband has only made one, brief appearance in the campaign so far. But he and Ed Balls are due to be in Scotland this week to push a more strident "anti-independence" message.
No it's not. The target related to non-EU net migration.
Net migration was a ridiculous taregt given that the government can't control emigration (beyond being so inomcpetent as to encouraghe people to leave the country..)
If they'd based the taregt on something sensible and chievable (i.e.g non-EU non-student iimmigration) they weould probably be able to claim victory right now. If, opf course, you believ that reducing migration is a good thing, which is highly debatable.
Quite what individual party Scottish elections results have to do with a single question, once in lifetime and life changing referendum question is beyond me !!
Of course it is. You seem blissfully unaware of how the scottish public views things as well as the tactics of those in charge of both the 2011 scottish labour campaign and now the No campaign.
Balls and Miliband to rescue Labour’s Scottish campaign…
Can Ed Miliband and Ed Balls save Labour in Scotland? The two Labour heavyweights have decided to move in to rescue their party’s disastrous campaign in Scotland — with Balls being sent up north to sharpen his party’s teeth. A desperate measure for a desperate situation: Labour has not only blown a 10-15 point lead over the SNP in just a few weeks, but now languishes some 10-13 percentage points behind. A mammoth, humiliating defeat looms.
Until now, Labour has liked to portray its campaign for the Holyrood elections as a totally Scottish affair: run in Scotland, organised in Scotland and led by Scottish politicians. Not any more.
Senior staffers in Ed Miliband’s office started briefing Scottish hacks last night that Miliband is now going to take a much more "hands on" approach to the campaign. Miliband has only made one, brief appearance in the campaign so far. But he and Ed Balls are due to be in Scotland this week to push a more strident "anti-independence" message.
You seem blissfully unaware that there is no single Scottish public view. It is not a monolith that might be manipulated by the nefarious activities of individual politicians or parties.
Scottish opinion is a huge patchwork into which the maelstrom of the Referendum campaign pours forth. Presently NO is the winner and will remain so on 18 Sep.
I said he won't believe his luck since he went big on the Bulgarian and Romanian 'exodus' and only a fool wouldn't know he will make a huge play of these new immigration figures.
Blairites like Monica will take any refuge since the all too tragic fall of their hero from grace.
No it's not. The target related to non-EU net migration.
And this statement is wrong. It was the immigration cap that only applied to non-EU migration (because, opf course, EU immigration can't be capped). The net migration target applied to all immigration.
Quite what individual party Scottish elections results have to do with a single question, once in lifetime and life changing referendum question is beyond me !!
Of course it is. You seem blissfully unaware of how the scottish public views things as well as the tactics of those in charge of both the 2011 scottish labour campaign and now the No campaign.
Balls and Miliband to rescue Labour’s Scottish campaign…
Can Ed Miliband and Ed Balls save Labour in Scotland? The two Labour heavyweights have decided to move in to rescue their party’s disastrous campaign in Scotland — with Balls being sent up north to sharpen his party’s teeth. A desperate measure for a desperate situation: Labour has not only blown a 10-15 point lead over the SNP in just a few weeks, but now languishes some 10-13 percentage points behind. A mammoth, humiliating defeat looms.
Until now, Labour has liked to portray its campaign for the Holyrood elections as a totally Scottish affair: run in Scotland, organised in Scotland and led by Scottish politicians. Not any more.
Senior staffers in Ed Miliband’s office started briefing Scottish hacks last night that Miliband is now going to take a much more "hands on" approach to the campaign. Miliband has only made one, brief appearance in the campaign so far. But he and Ed Balls are due to be in Scotland this week to push a more strident "anti-independence" message.
You seem blissfully unaware that there is no single Scottish public view. It is not a monolith that might be manipulated by the nefarious activities of individual politicians or parties.
Oh really? You think the tories are particularly popular in scotland then do you Jacky? What about the lib dems under calamity Clegg? An election or a referendum is a distillation of a political issue around the parties who espouse and oppose it. Those political parties matter chum as self-evidently does the campaign and the logistics of the ground game and GOTV. It sure as hell mattered in 2011 and the AV vote and it's absolutely going to matter in seven months time. If you are too old and blind to see that then that would be your problem.
Can someone rationally explain exactly what is in our interest as rUK to enter a formal currency union with an independent Scotland. So far all that I have read is that there would be no transaction tax between Scot/rUK trade. Surely there is more to it than that. I really do want to know since I have yet to form a view on Scottish independence...
Can someone rationally explain exactly what is in our interest as rUK to enter a formal currency union with an independent Scotland. So far all that I have read is that there would be no transaction tax between Scot/rUK trade. Surely there is more to it than that. I really do want to know since I have yet to form a view on Scottish independence...
@beckymbarrow: First, Standard Life on Scotland. Now, Standard & Poor's. 'A large part of this activity [fin services] could be re-domiciled to the UK.'
Quite what individual party Scottish elections results have to do with a single question, once in lifetime and life changing referendum question is beyond me !!
Of course it is. You seem blissfully unaware of how the scottish public views things as well as the tactics of those in charge of both the 2011 scottish labour campaign and now the No campaign.
Balls and Miliband to rescue Labour’s Scottish campaign…
Can Ed Miliband and Ed Balls save Labour in Scotland? The two Labour heavyweights have decided to move in to rescue their party’s disastrous campaign in Scotland — with Balls being sent up north to sharpen his party’s teeth. A desperate measure for a desperate situation: Labour has not only blown a 10-15 point lead over the SNP in just a few weeks, but now languishes some 10-13 percentage points behind. A mammoth, humiliating defeat looms.
Until now, Labour has liked to portray its campaign for the Holyrood elections as a totally Scottish affair: run in Scotland, organised in Scotland and led by Scottish politicians. Not any more.
Senior staffers in Ed Miliband’s office started briefing Scottish hacks last night that Miliband is now going to take a much more "hands on" approach to the campaign. Miliband has only made one, brief appearance in the campaign so far. But he and Ed Balls are due to be in Scotland this week to push a more strident "anti-independence" message.
You seem blissfully unaware that there is no single Scottish public view. It is not a monolith that might be manipulated by the nefarious activities of individual politicians or parties.
Oh really? You think the tories are particularly popular in scotland then do you Jacky? What about the lib dems under calamity Clegg? An election or a referendum is a distillation of a political issue around the parties who espouse and oppose it. Those political parties matter chum as self-evidently does the campaign and the logistics of the ground game and GOTV. It sure as hell mattered in 2011 and the AV vote and it's absolutely going to matter in seven months time. If you are too old and blind to see that then that would be your problem.
My word you are a clutz at times.
Whether Scottish Tories, LibDems, SNP or Labour are popular or not isn't relevant.
The Referendum question transcends simple party politics. Why are there SNP NO voters or SLAB YES voters ?
Scottish voters have to distil a variety of arguments from all shades of opinion, some of it varying from within parties. From that a decision will be made. And NO will prevail.
Mr. Observer, a close result would be a bad thing, whoever wins. Suspicions of vote-rigging (it'll be fun to see how many postal votes are doled out) could make things contentious. A clear Yes or No would be best.
And worst of all, a close result on very low turnout.
The consequences of the big turnout differential still hasn't sunk in for better together or indeed the PB tories. Sooner or later it will.
There is a reason for that. The PB Tories haven't got the foggiest idea of ground conditions in Scotland. They are totally, blissfully unaware of the non-existence of BT activists on the ground in vaste swathes of the country. Whereas there isn't even a village which hasn't been canvassed by the Yes team. And before September, they will be re-canvassed and re-canvassed and the gaps will be filled in. Meanwhile, GOTV folks over at BT will be looking at their empty databases and pulling their hair out.
And yet all this furious activity from YES has resulted in continuing leads for the Union.
Seven months out from the vote. Yes to AV was leading months out from the vote as was scottish labour by double figures for the 2011 scottish elections. If you wish to be complacent about the ground campaign then by all means let you and your arse speak such 'wisdom' to the No campaign as loudly as you can manage.
As for Ave_It, he seemed to find your arse's outpourings and predictions for the lib dems in 2010 riotously funny. Now why would that be?
I'm far from complacent but I also have absolute faith in the good sense of the Scottish voters
They delivered fewer tory MPs than pandas in scotland and have made the scottish lib dems an irrelevance so I too am very confident that they have good sense.
In a referendum, it's the votes that matter, not the number of constituencies won. If the Conservatives really were so unpopular in Scotland in 2010, what does that say about the SNP, who outpolled the Tories by a massive 3.2%? A little bit less unpopular?
I assume you don't need me to give you the overall unionist / nationalist split in votes, never mind MPs?
@beckymbarrow: First, Standard Life on Scotland. Now, Standard & Poor's. 'A large part of this activity [fin services] could be re-domiciled to the UK.'
Cue malcolmg with a 'F*** em all, we don't need those b****rds'
What is now apparent is that after the independence referendum there will be lasting bitterness in Scotland whichever way the vote goes.
I disagree.
A post-Yes Scotland will quickly move on. You underestimate how much the middle class will gain by independence. Just look at the flourishing Norwegian middle class. It was the same after 1999 devolution: it was astonishing how quickly Scots got used to the new set-up. Support for going back to the pre-1999 status quo (ie. abolishing the SP) has withered away to sub 10%.
Post No will be very similar to the years of national depression after the 1979 referendum: John Smith's "unfinished business". With the added spice that the victorious No side are going to go out of their way to absolutely shaft Scotland at every opportunity (cf the Thatcher years). They would not be magnanimous winners.
So far the argument has consisted of a £500m benefit to trade from transaction costs and being non-confrontational to iScot.
This is dwarfed by negatives. We've just written off £46bn on RBS or 92 years of transaction costs. There are a whole host of other downsides from the economic ( Scotland can't control its currency ) to the political ( every UK PM is the bogeyman when he tell Scots no ).
In a referendum, it's the votes that matter, not the number of constituencies won. If the Conservatives really were so unpopular in Scotland in 2010, what does that say about the SNP, who outpolled the Tories by a massive 3.2%? A little bit less unpopular?
I assume you don't need me to give you the overall unionist / nationalist split in votes, never mind MPs?
I assume you haven't u-turned on ditching FPTP? Or maybe you don't realise that scottish voters are well aware of how to use that system tactically as well as the difference between a westminster and scottish parliament vote.
If you're so confident that tories like Cammie and Osbrowne aren't toxic in scotland then by all means send them to scotland every week if they are the referendum winner you seem to think they are. Try and get Clegg up too as much as possible while you're at it.
It's the votes that turnout that matter in a referendum so if you don't understand why GOTV and a ground campaign will be crucial then you can join Jack in his complacency.
@beckymbarrow: First, Standard Life on Scotland. Now, Standard & Poor's. 'A large part of this activity [fin services] could be re-domiciled to the UK.'
Award yourself a prize for taking things out of context (or letting a random twittertwat do it for you).
Can someone rationally explain exactly what is in our interest as rUK to enter a formal currency union with an independent Scotland. So far all that I have read is that there would be no transaction tax between Scot/rUK trade. Surely there is more to it than that. I really do want to know since I have yet to form a view on Scottish independence...
Max please stop trying to bully Scotland.
My poor keyboard, how it keeps working I don't know. That remark caused it to be annointed again, this time with me choking on my lunchtime pilsner.
Anyway, I have read ever post in this mornings thread something I seldom do these days for obvious reasons and am left confused by one point that, Mr. Brooke, you may be able to help me with. What is with the references to Somerset and Wings over Somerset?
Can someone rationally explain exactly what is in our interest as rUK to enter a formal currency union with an independent Scotland. So far all that I have read is that there would be no transaction tax between Scot/rUK trade. Surely there is more to it than that. I really do want to know since I have yet to form a view on Scottish independence...
Max please stop trying to bully Scotland.
My poor keyboard, how it keeps working I don't know. That remark caused it to be annointed again, this time with me choking on my lunchtime pilsner.
Anyway, I have read ever post in this mornings thread something I seldom do these days for obvious reasons and am left confused by one point that, Mr. Brooke, you may be able to help me with. What is with the references to Somerset and Wings over Somerset?
So far the argument has consisted of a £500m benefit to trade from transaction costs
And that assumes that rUK businesses invoice in Scottish Pounds - some (many?) may just use sterling - why invoice in a minor, possibly volatile currency?
Still, a newly-independent Scotland would be likely to face a shrinking economy if financial services, which account for 8pc of GDP, relocate to the remaining UK, said the report. Scotland may also be forced to reduce the size of its public sector workforce, which at nearly a quarter of the total population is well above the UK average, while Scottish companies which benefit from strong integration with the rest of Britain could also suffer, said S&P.
i.e. a period of Thatcherite readjustment, but I'd be optimistic that an independent Scotland would do well once it had got through that.
Can someone rationally explain exactly what is in our interest as rUK to enter a formal currency union with an independent Scotland. So far all that I have read is that there would be no transaction tax between Scot/rUK trade. Surely there is more to it than that. I really do want to know since I have yet to form a view on Scottish independence...
Max please stop trying to bully Scotland.
My poor keyboard, how it keeps working I don't know. That remark caused it to be annointed again, this time with me choking on my lunchtime pilsner.
Anyway, I have read ever post in this mornings thread something I seldom do these days for obvious reasons and am left confused by one point that, Mr. Brooke, you may be able to help me with. What is with the references to Somerset and Wings over Somerset?
It was one I missed myself initially Mr L. It would appear that some of our oft quoted cybernat sites aren't actually based in Scotland. The prime nat site Wings over Scotland is run by a bloke living in Bath ( hence Somerset ) claiming to be a minister. Newsnet which is the other big Nat site has an IP address in Gloucester.
So when Pork tells you you don't understand what's happening in Scotland it's probably because you've been reading a view from the West Country posted by a bloke from Sweden in the false belief it's somehow related to what Scots think. Warwickshire is actually closer to the action.
Can someone rationally explain exactly what is in our interest as rUK to enter a formal currency union with an independent Scotland. So far all that I have read is that there would be no transaction tax between Scot/rUK trade. Surely there is more to it than that. I really do want to know since I have yet to form a view on Scottish independence...
Max please stop trying to bully Scotland.
My poor keyboard, how it keeps working I don't know. That remark caused it to be annointed again, this time with me choking on my lunchtime pilsner.
Anyway, I have read ever post in this mornings thread something I seldom do these days for obvious reasons and am left confused by one point that, Mr. Brooke, you may be able to help me with. What is with the references to Somerset and Wings over Somerset?
It was one I missed myself initially Mr L. It would appear that some of our oft quoted cybernat sites aren't actually based in Scotland. The prime nat site Wings over Scotland is run by a bloke living in Bath ( hence Somerset ) claiming to be a minister. Newsnet which is the other big Nat site has an IP address in Gloucester.
So when Pork tells you you don't understand what's happening in Scotland it's probably because you've been reading a view from the West Country posted by a bloke from Sweden in the false belief it's somehow related to what Scots think. Warwickshire is actually closer to the action.
Thanks, Mr. B.. What particularly struck me from that article is how some of these people have managed to turn their ranting into profit making. I seem to recall that there were posts on here yesterday about the Wings bloke, who you now tell me lives in Bath raising £60k in a few hours. That we were assured shows the strength of feeling for the yes vote. Seems to me, now, to be confirmation that the old adage about fools and their money soon being parted is particularly true. A conman fleecing money out of the gullible seems to have nothing to do with politics.
Can someone rationally explain exactly what is in our interest as rUK to enter a formal currency union with an independent Scotland. So far all that I have read is that there would be no transaction tax between Scot/rUK trade. Surely there is more to it than that. I really do want to know since I have yet to form a view on Scottish independence...
Max please stop trying to bully Scotland.
My poor keyboard, how it keeps working I don't know. That remark caused it to be annointed again, this time with me choking on my lunchtime pilsner.
Anyway, I have read ever post in this mornings thread something I seldom do these days for obvious reasons and am left confused by one point that, Mr. Brooke, you may be able to help me with. What is with the references to Somerset and Wings over Somerset?
It was one I missed myself initially Mr L. It would appear that some of our oft quoted cybernat sites aren't actually based in Scotland. The prime nat site Wings over Scotland is run by a bloke living in Bath ( hence Somerset ) claiming to be a minister. Newsnet which is the other big Nat site has an IP address in Gloucester.
So when Pork tells you you don't understand what's happening in Scotland it's probably because you've been reading a view from the West Country posted by a bloke from Sweden in the false belief it's somehow related to what Scots think. Warwickshire is actually closer to the action.
Thanks, Mr. B.. What particularly struck me from that article is how some of these people have managed to turn their ranting into profit making. I seem to recall that there were posts on here yesterday about the Wings bloke, who you now tell me lives in Bath raising £60k in a few hours. That we were assured shows the strength of feeling for the yes vote. Seems to me, now, to be confirmation that the old adage about fools and their money soon being parted is particularly true. A conman fleecing money out of the gullible seems to have nothing to do with politics.
The wings chappy crowd raises cash to run polling programmes that miraculously always seem to agree with what he says. So fools, money and separation work together on so many levels. The odder thing to me is how the staunchest patriots never seem want to live in the place.
BUT PLAYING HARDBALL ON RE-NEGOTIATIONS. BUGGER OFF, CAMMO, SHE IS SAYING. Those poor old tory eurosceptics have had their balls squeezed by a big pair of female hands made in Germany. LOL
The UKIP spring conference has been handed a nice gift from Merky. Farage must have a big smile on his face.
BUT PLAYING HARDBALL ON RE-NEGOTIATIONS. BUGGER OFF, CAMMO, SHE IS SAYING. Those poor old tory eurosceptics have had their balls squeezed by a big pair female hands made in Germany. LOL
The UKIP spring conference has been handed a nice gift from Merky. Farage must have a big smile on his face.
An deiner Stelle I'd be studying more how the Nats have cocked up on the economy looking at where it all went wrong instead of crowing before the sun rises.
BUT PLAYING HARDBALL ON RE-NEGOTIATIONS. BUGGER OFF, CAMMO, SHE IS SAYING. Those poor old tory eurosceptics have had their balls squeezed by a big pair female hands made in Germany. LOL
The UKIP spring conference has been handed a nice gift from Merky. Farage must have a big smile on his face.
An deiner Stelle I'd be studying more how the Nats have cocked up on the economy looking at where it all went wrong instead of crowing before the sun rises.
What the heck are you on about? I think it's your chickens that are coming home to roost, and among those chickens are a few hawks.
BUT PLAYING HARDBALL ON RE-NEGOTIATIONS. BUGGER OFF, CAMMO, SHE IS SAYING. Those poor old tory eurosceptics have had their balls squeezed by a big pair female hands made in Germany. LOL
The UKIP spring conference has been handed a nice gift from Merky. Farage must have a big smile on his face.
An deiner Stelle I'd be studying more how the Nats have cocked up on the economy looking at where it all went wrong instead of crowing before the sun rises.
What the heck are you on about? I think it's your chickens that are coming home to roost, and among those chickens are a few hawks.
Pointing out the obvious Mr K that if we had a referendum tomorrow yelling EUSSR isn't going to carry it.
BUT PLAYING HARDBALL ON RE-NEGOTIATIONS. BUGGER OFF, CAMMO, SHE IS SAYING. Those poor old tory eurosceptics have had their balls squeezed by a big pair female hands made in Germany. LOL
The UKIP spring conference has been handed a nice gift from Merky. Farage must have a big smile on his face.
An deiner Stelle I'd be studying more how the Nats have cocked up on the economy looking at where it all went wrong instead of crowing before the sun rises.
What the heck are you on about? I think it's your chickens that are coming home to roost, and among those chickens are a few hawks.
Pointing out the obvious Mr K that if we had a referendum tomorrow yelling EUSSR isn't going to carry it.
You're losing it Alanbrooke. Like your namesake, I'd go out into the fresh air and study a few birds.
BUT PLAYING HARDBALL ON RE-NEGOTIATIONS. BUGGER OFF, CAMMO, SHE IS SAYING. Those poor old tory eurosceptics have had their balls squeezed by a big pair female hands made in Germany. LOL
The UKIP spring conference has been handed a nice gift from Merky. Farage must have a big smile on his face.
An deiner Stelle I'd be studying more how the Nats have cocked up on the economy looking at where it all went wrong instead of crowing before the sun rises.
What the heck are you on about? I think it's your chickens that are coming home to roost, and among those chickens are a few hawks.
Pointing out the obvious Mr K that if we had a referendum tomorrow yelling EUSSR isn't going to carry it.
You're losing it Alanbrooke. Like your namesake, I'd go out into the fresh air and study a few birds.
In a referendum, it's the votes that matter, not the number of constituencies won. If the Conservatives really were so unpopular in Scotland in 2010, what does that say about the SNP, who outpolled the Tories by a massive 3.2%? A little bit less unpopular?
I assume you don't need me to give you the overall unionist / nationalist split in votes, never mind MPs?
I assume you haven't u-turned on ditching FPTP? Or maybe you don't realise that scottish voters are well aware of how to use that system tactically as well as the difference between a westminster and scottish parliament vote.
If you're so confident that tories like Cammie and Osbrowne aren't toxic in scotland then by all means send them to scotland every week if they are the referendum winner you seem to think they are. Try and get Clegg up too as much as possible while you're at it.
It's the votes that turnout that matter in a referendum so if you don't understand why GOTV and a ground campaign will be crucial then you can join Jack in his complacency.
GOTV matters in low-turnout polls. I very much doubt that will be the case in the Scottish referendum unless the nationalists have bored everyone to death by then. Campaigning ability does matter, and that includes ground campaigning but it also includes the airwaves, newspapers and other general campaigning.
In a referendum, it's the votes that matter, not the number of constituencies won. If the Conservatives really were so unpopular in Scotland in 2010, what does that say about the SNP, who outpolled the Tories by a massive 3.2%? A little bit less unpopular?
I assume you don't need me to give you the overall unionist / nationalist split in votes, never mind MPs?
I assume you haven't u-turned on ditching FPTP? Or maybe you don't realise that scottish voters are well aware of how to use that system tactically as well as the difference between a westminster and scottish parliament vote.
If you're so confident that tories like Cammie and Osbrowne aren't toxic in scotland then by all means send them to scotland every week if they are the referendum winner you seem to think they are. Try and get Clegg up too as much as possible while you're at it.
It's the votes that turnout that matter in a referendum so if you don't understand why GOTV and a ground campaign will be crucial then you can join Jack in his complacency.
GOTV matters in low-turnout polls. I very much doubt that will be the case in the Scottish referendum unless the nationalists have bored everyone to death by then.
You didn't understand the differential turnout figures then.
Comments
I bet they do, now that Standard Life have broken cover. I would, if my pension was on the line.
http://vote-2012.proboards.com/post/141803/thread
I wonder whether it something like "PB Tories" pouring their hearts and souls in Bolsover hoping for a Con GAIN to flash up on election night ?!?
"Ave it" might predict it but then again ....
http://www.dw.de/media-center/live-tv/s-100825
Yes to AV was leading months out from the vote as was scottish labour by double figures for the 2011 scottish elections. If you wish to be complacent about the ground campaign then by all means let you and your arse speak such 'wisdom' to the No campaign as loudly as you can manage.
As for Ave_It, he seemed to find your arse's outpourings and predictions for the lib dems in 2010 riotously funny. Now why would that be?
Now what currency are YES opting for today ??! - Is it the Ruble or the Yuan ?
What are the odds that Standard Life will move regardless of any referendum outcome, to reassure and retain existing business? They could lose a lot of jittery customers between now and the vote.
"As for Ave_It, he seemed to find your arse's outpourings and predictions for the lib dems in 2010 riotously funny. Now why would that be?"
..................................................................
Because his memory is as bad as his US Presidential forecasting !!
What does change are the possible currency, tax, and regulation risks and as one assumes over 90% of Std Life investments etc are held by rUK residents rather than Scots residents moving south for Std Life is a no brainer to me.
As I have said independence is viable and possible, just not Alex Salmond's version of it. His version relies on others to sign up to things like a currency and regulatory union, which nobody with prospects of power and influence south of Gretna Green seems inclined to do. It might be worth accepting the fallout if you are Scottish, fair enough, but fall out there will be.
I had a letter from David Cameron today asking me to register for a postal vote (with an application form and reply paid envelope addressed to the Conservative Party which seemed a bit odd - shouldn't it go to the Council?)
I don't recall receiving any letter from him ever before - I live in a safe Con seat (Hertsmere) though of course that is irrelevant as far as the Euros are concerned.
So what does this indicate? Are they putting a lot of resources into the Euros? No point in wasting time on me for the GE.
glad you caught that less/fewer thing - good to see standards remain high in Scotlandshire.
Who else would be daft enough to propose a currency union without a fiscal union?
Oh...
Daily_Express @Daily_Express 2h
Immigration nightmare for PM as official figures show number of Romanians & Bulgarians in UK have TREBLED http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/462081/Immigration-BOMBSHELL-for-Cameron-as-number-of-Romanians-and-Bulgarians-in-Britain-TREBLE …
However if it is to become your comfort blanket in the long nightmare ahead then I say :
Succour .... or more appropriately .... Sucker !!
Patricia Hewitt said NCCL would be prepared to offer legal advice to adults who wanted to have sex with 14-year-olds: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10663580/Patricia-Hewitts-civil-rights-campaign-offered-legal-advice-to-adults-who-have-sex-with-14-year-olds.html …
Story just got more legs...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/
Merkel; 'In order to get that, we need a strong United Kingdom, in a strong United Europe'
The bully!
Merkel confident if we really want to change EU "we will find the necessary legal instruments." Doesnt sound like treaty change is imminent.
Porky can't be joining UKIP? LOL
And it seems like only yesterday, that Salmond wanted to join the Euro.
Chortle.
As a YES voter, he supports the quickest way out of the EU.
If they'd based the taregt on something sensible and chievable (i.e.g non-EU non-student iimmigration) they weould probably be able to claim victory right now. If, opf course, you believ that reducing migration is a good thing, which is highly debatable.
You seem blissfully unaware that there is no single Scottish public view. It is not a monolith that might be manipulated by the nefarious activities of individual politicians or parties.
Scottish opinion is a huge patchwork into which the maelstrom of the Referendum campaign pours forth. Presently NO is the winner and will remain so on 18 Sep.
I said he won't believe his luck since he went big on the Bulgarian and Romanian 'exodus' and only a fool wouldn't know he will make a huge play of these new immigration figures.
Blairites like Monica will take any refuge since the all too tragic fall of their hero from grace.
LOL
BUT PLAYING HARDBALL ON RE-NEGOTIATIONS. BUGGER OFF, CAMMO, SHE IS SAYING
The UKIP spring conference has been handed a nice gift from Merky. Farage must have a big smile on his face.
Oh really? You think the tories are particularly popular in scotland then do you Jacky? What about the lib dems under calamity Clegg? An election or a referendum is a distillation of a political issue around the parties who espouse and oppose it. Those political parties matter chum as self-evidently does the campaign and the logistics of the ground game and GOTV.
It sure as hell mattered in 2011 and the AV vote and it's absolutely going to matter in seven months time. If you are too old and blind to see that then that would be your problem.
I’m surprised no Eurosceptic MPs decided to boo. must’ve been mesmerised by #Merkel’s (not particularly charismatic) speech
Luke Baker @LukeReuters 37m
Merkel burst Cameron's balloon: "Those who expect me to promise fundamental reforms of EU architecture for UK are in for a disappointment"
I think Merkel reeled in the gullible Eurosceptics there.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26370257
@beckymbarrow: First, Standard Life on Scotland. Now, Standard & Poor's. 'A large part of this activity [fin services] could be re-domiciled to the UK.'
It sure as hell mattered in 2011 and the AV vote and it's absolutely going to matter in seven months time. If you are too old and blind to see that then that would be your problem.
My word you are a clutz at times.
Whether Scottish Tories, LibDems, SNP or Labour are popular or not isn't relevant.
The Referendum question transcends simple party politics. Why are there SNP NO voters or SLAB YES voters ?
Scottish voters have to distil a variety of arguments from all shades of opinion, some of it varying from within parties. From that a decision will be made. And NO will prevail.
Olaf Cramme @olafcramme 49m
Bang. #Merkel: “Those who hoped my speech will pave the way for fundamental #EU reform based on British wishes will be disappointed.”
J.S. Lindley-French @FrencLindley 1m
Merkel in London offers no straws for Cameron to cling onto. If anything Eurosceptics will have hardened their views. Forget renegotiation.
Poor old gullible tory Eurosceptics. When will they ever learn?
I assume you don't need me to give you the overall unionist / nationalist split in votes, never mind MPs?
A post-Yes Scotland will quickly move on. You underestimate how much the middle class will gain by independence. Just look at the flourishing Norwegian middle class. It was the same after 1999 devolution: it was astonishing how quickly Scots got used to the new set-up. Support for going back to the pre-1999 status quo (ie. abolishing the SP) has withered away to sub 10%.
Post No will be very similar to the years of national depression after the 1979 referendum: John Smith's "unfinished business". With the added spice that the victorious No side are going to go out of their way to absolutely shaft Scotland at every opportunity (cf the Thatcher years). They would not be magnanimous winners.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ukraine_cencus_2001_Russian.svg
This is dwarfed by negatives. We've just written off £46bn on RBS or 92 years of transaction costs. There are a whole host of other downsides from the economic ( Scotland can't control its currency ) to the political ( every UK PM is the bogeyman when he tell Scots no ).
If you're so confident that tories like Cammie and Osbrowne aren't toxic in scotland then by all means send them to scotland every week if they are the referendum winner you seem to think they are. Try and get Clegg up too as much as possible while you're at it.
It's the votes that turnout that matter in a referendum so if you don't understand why GOTV and a ground campaign will be crucial then you can join Jack in his complacency.
Merkel Dampens UK Expectations On EU Reform: Those expecting Germany to pave the way for fundamental EU reform... http://binged.it/N6YgD2
Karl Frampton @Karl_Frampton 3m
Think Angela Merkel went down with the Tory Eurosceptics like a Lead Zeppelin!
Triumph for the fop!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10665032/Scotland-could-go-it-alone-Standard-and-Poors.html
Anyway, I have read ever post in this mornings thread something I seldom do these days for obvious reasons and am left confused by one point that, Mr. Brooke, you may be able to help me with. What is with the references to Somerset and Wings over Somerset?
Raymond Soltysek @raymondsoltysek Feb 23
Hague warns Putin not to interfere in Ukraine while Cameron encourages Putin to intervene to prevent Scottish independence #indyref
Tom Delargy @derekrootboy Feb 21
Alistair Carmichael want to remind #bbcaq listeners David Cameron tried to enlist Putin to help him crush Scottish independence?
Still, a newly-independent Scotland would be likely to face a shrinking economy if financial services, which account for 8pc of GDP, relocate to the remaining UK, said the report. Scotland may also be forced to reduce the size of its public sector workforce, which at nearly a quarter of the total population is well above the UK average, while Scottish companies which benefit from strong integration with the rest of Britain could also suffer, said S&P.
i.e. a period of Thatcherite readjustment, but I'd be optimistic that an independent Scotland would do well once it had got through that.
So when Pork tells you you don't understand what's happening in Scotland it's probably because you've been reading a view from the West Country posted by a bloke from Sweden in the false belief it's somehow related to what Scots think. Warwickshire is actually closer to the action.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2545901/Cybernats-unmasked-Meet-footsoldiers-pro-Scottish-independence-army-online-poison-shames-Nationalists.html
BUT PLAYING HARDBALL ON RE-NEGOTIATIONS. BUGGER OFF, CAMMO, SHE IS SAYING.
Those poor old tory eurosceptics have had their balls squeezed by a big pair of female hands made in Germany. LOL
The UKIP spring conference has been handed a nice gift from Merky. Farage must have a big smile on his face.
I think it's your chickens that are coming home to roost, and among those chickens are a few hawks.
Good.